e and his Timberwolf swag how I represent all dressed up all right uh stand by hello all right I'll call the meeting to order park and rec commission May 22nd Sarah can you do roll call please yes Lloyd Greek here Laura Greenley karp here David andren here Ben Hansen here ingred kler is absent Sue springborn here Sarah zarka is absent and Cassidy schwe is absent okay we got a quorum motion to adopt the agenda I make motion Dave makes a motion second I second it sue seconds discussion all in favor say I I I I I'll opposed motion to approve the minutes of April 24th I make a motion Dave makes a motion second I second it two seconds discussion all in favor say I I I I'll opposed all right meeting open to the public any Zoom no no Zoom all right anybody from the public like to address just come on up state your name I am Henry Schneider with hangtime Board Shop hi Henry welcome welcome thank you appreciate you having me here today uh as you know we have a little local skate shop in town and uh as more youngsters come to our doors you know we're they're always asking where can I go uh to ride my skateboard of course streets are always fun maybe not you know the safest with vehicles around but uh certainly a spot but of course a skate park would be a great thing for theity to have so that people can uh gather as a community and ride and um enjoy the activity together and there are a number of different ways that the city could approach a project like that and um it can be as simple as what would be called a pop-up Park in which uh available Park obstacles such as quarter pipes and rails could be put into a nice concrete surface with some possible Jersey barriers around it to prevent skateboards from flying into the streets to se section it off um and so a pop-up Park would be a simple easy solution that could go into any small parking lot that was recently resurfaced in town or um any other uh spot that you're looking to resurface uh with some newer concrete maybe old tennis courts or the like so a nice clean surface would enable us to put ramps there in a semi-permanent temporary like basis some popup Parks can be around for months Others May be around for a couple years um but usually they're built with uh refurbished or used obstacles um that we could easily Source from like Facebook Marketplace and other community members um so that would be the easiest lowest barriered entry to developing a skate park in town and something that could be done almost like with the snap of a finger um like if you said there's a partk right there that like if you guys put obstacles there and did it like we could make that happen um on the other hand a more permanent uh type of Park situation that uh could uh you know stay around would be you know on the smaller side of a community size Park like you'll see in Little Canada or in Oakdale or in Hugo uh and then they get uh kind of moderately larger as you start to go to the West Metro you'll see significantly more skate parks uh in the communities out there um one of the most notable ones I would say is Bloomington or sorry Burnsville skate park bsp as people like like to call it um and that one's great because it's got a really large bowl so not only are there stairs ramps boxes rails quarter pipes but you also have the vert aspect of it as well and um bowl and vert riding is something that there aren't actually a lot of parks for and so I would call that kind of like the mid-range type of Park where uh you're going to need you know a little bit more square footage for something like that um and a little bit more concrete investment but uh we'll provide people it'll attract people from across the the city is what I'm trying to say versus like a papa Park is going to attract people from like a smaller region um something that had a bowl people literally from across the Metro will come to ride a park like that um another notable Park would be like wood bries which has a nice uh concrete Park a reasonable number of obstacles um but uh not as many obstacles there's no bow there's no vert so people don't necessarily um people still actually do go to Woodbury though CU it's just really nice park so sometimes it is just about building an ice Park um and then the Third Kind of option would be like what we'd call a destination Park and that's what the um state has develop funding for um in order to uh you may or may not be aware but there is funding available for skate parks through the state last year they passed a bill that I believe is still funded and so uh if you were to make the investment into building a a skate park that has minimum square footage of 10,000 square fet and is completely concrete um then you can get uh half the cost or more covered by the state um but that would be probably at the low end of like a $250,000 investment probably from the city's end that's probably being pretty conservative on the lowest side um for that that level of skate park but that's where there's like three kind of levels that the city can look at as options um and thinking you know near term midterm long-term what might be right as uh I think just the city's location being so close to the uh so many communities in town it makes it a great destination um for skateboarders um and getting out of uh you know there's just not a lot of other options in the area currently and so I think there's a huge opportunity for the city to do something that draws people in um and provides a lot of excitement so I'd be happy to share maybe ideas if you have questions or I mean I have thought you know a little bit more about like what places could make a good Park but be happy to answer any other questions I me pop up I got a question on when you're anchoring these platforms and rails and stuff um so you need a hard service like asphalt or concrete right yeah concrete is pretty much preferred um asphalt I think probably just because it uh doesn't have the longevity of concrete will end up becoming a rougher surface over time and a park that you know starts out being great can end up becoming unridable unless you research surface it whereas the concrete Parks tend to last significantly longer and typically have um just a more enjoyable surface for riding on okay then um just kind of a thought cross my mind what about liability factors so we open it up uh to the public to to go out skating and somebody misjudges the stairs or a rail or whatever they're trying to to do they get injured on it is the city be liable for that there so there uh certainly needs to be some insurance uh there and we have talked to our insurance provider and we for the purposes of a popup Park uh could provide the city with an additional insured coverage through the shop but if you're looking for something on a more permanent basis then to your point you would need to look into an insurance policy for the city to be able to cover um that type of Park and and typically you know they'll have a disclosure um on the outside of the park um and I can't speak specifically to that I've got great contacts and get can get more information on that um but I would say that in addition to the cost of the park insurance would probably be an additional cost sure I imagine I we already have insurance covering Park usage we do and I do know that this came up with our city manager last week about um coverage with skate parks too um and he would had some some concerns about the popup Park so I know our city manager is working on that too um because it was brought up that you guys could help cover it um thep yeah our attorney wasn't on the same page so I think they're working on discussions of that too um but yes so we'd have to at least investigate to see how much more that would cost the city okay if anything I think it would be a great draw for the community uh to have that kind of an outlet that way they're going to a park rather than to the school or the church churches to find those same entities to practice on yeah exactly so um but yeah I the good thing is we're kind of in the process of looking at developing a couple of our Parks here yep and it might be something that we could incorporate in some of our conversations with I'm thinking of mcnight field we can do something there what I was thinking um so it it's it's good to know that there's and you guys have a lot of kids in your classes now or yeah I mean uh we're doing summer sessions now so I think right now they've got four or five people in the lesson and uh June's going to we're already booked up a little bit more than that um so I think most of our sessions we try to keep it once we get over eight in a lesson it it becomes a little more challenging so we like to have the smaller group settings um but it's and a lot of the kids that are getting into it we're doing beginner level mainly because um without having obstacles there's not much more that we can do for flat ground like one of the be like two of the best places and you'll see like unfortunately East Metro has been like kind of disadvantaged from a skateboarding perspective because the West Metro has help board shop and third layer where you'll see kids really young able to try out ramps and have instruction where they're able to uh learn and progress much faster and when you don't have ramps if you don't have a halfpipe if you don't have these things then you can't um progress and so there's just limited there's not a lot of those things around here um and so by having a park then not only could we do like just beginner flat ground stuff but we could provide education and when you do that all of a sudden you start to see that you got a lot more Talent who are on Thrasher magazine I mean you've got a lot number of skaters locally who uh are on professional level um on a national level and you know you need to have the resources to build that up and that's our goal is is to build up that community and um and do that and to do that you need a skate park definitely so oh sorry go ahead Sira is third lir the one that has the indoor yeah so I the two I mentioned third and help are both indoor uh Parks uh which is certainly an advantage yeah um and it it'd be cool to see an indoor park in the East Metro um in not too distant in the future um but the outdoor Parks there's still a huge amount of value in the outdoor Parks um when you add the vertical elements do you have to I apologize if this is a dumb question do you have to dig down to create the vertical or can you can you build up yeah that's a great question um because you can it's typically with the bulls dug down um most often but I think a lot of times they'll work with the geography cuz like at Burnsville it's kind of built into a hillside okay and so the it it's both up and not you know you I mean um but in general your bll uh is going to typically on the small side be like 6 to 8 feet deep um you know and then deeper with the concrete base uh and that's like on the smaller side and so like in Burnsville as I was mentioning that one um they have one that goes from 8 to 10 ft and so it a lot deeper so you wouldn't necessarily want to have to climb up a 10ft bll what I'm trying to say right um there are like half pipes are often more often done that way than like a full Bowl yeah they'll do that um because you can start at the bottom and ride your way up but that was a good question um and then I imagine you have to have some sort of like span like a minimum span that the park is to well and it's also good just to think about like um we'd be we' absolutely would love to be involved in like helping to consider the the design of it because um like Hugo has they they basically dropped skateboard obstacles on a concrete surface and they're nice obstacles and I don't want to say anything too much about that but other than there's some things that are just not even usable because of the way it was not really thought out um and so uh another example is uh Shore View which is a super popular Great Park um but if you got too many skaters there all of a sudden it almost becomes unridable because there's just not good flow as people like to say um between all the different elements and so thinking about space layout flow and how many people are going to be using the parket a single time is is super important and so a park like Oakdale which doesn't even have like a huge square footage is super accommodating to a lot of people because of the way it's laid out and all the obstacles just make sense together and it really works well together um and then it uh wood Woodbury ojibway Park that one almost has like the same amount of obstacles as Oakdale except for it's spread out over like twice the square footage um so it's just a different vibe again a lot of people can and write it and use it and enjoy it um but the that one's definitely not as first there's just not as much as you can do at that particular one got it so you can if you use a small space well it can still be an asset yes absolutely okay yeah I think um yeah knowing what is available and then designing the park from that is super important um another great example is uh Little Canada has a park that's um uh smaller square footage uh that one uh you know it's in rough shape um but it's still people like that one too okay so how big a space when you say that are really looking at so if I I'm just roughly ballparking here but I I think if I was to guess uh little Canada's probably about like 2,000 or 2500 square fet um and Oakdale might be in like the 3 to 4,000 foot range so totally doable and I'm I'm roughly eyeballing here if I think about like 75 ft by 75 ft or something like that okay it's probably about anybody else s Sarah where do we move from here on that I think uh a good strategy in my opinion would be when we move forward with the park plan Consultants to speak with them too and have you involved in that as a stakeholder hangtime Board Shop um to see what we can do with some of the next parks that are coming up for yeah getting done that'd be great okay yeah most of us are for it so love to hear that appr appreciate that have to get the ball rolling on our end to see what we have to do to accomplish something like that so yeah and happy to work with the city manager and you guys on popup Park if that's something we can pull off in the near future I mean I'm always on Facebook Marketplace and there's just like free halfpipe free quarter pipe just like sitting like two hours away and they just need a trailer and somewhere to bring it like I got that okay so yeah appreciate you guys thank you so much thanks for coming in have a good day thank you anybody else no all right let's go to parking open space master plan approval uh my suggestion would be considering we have a new environmental development Community Development Community Development person that we set this up as a workshop as was mentioned by several of the members on this commission uh at a later date and when that person gets into place anybody have any objections to that no I think if we we had a subcommittee kind of set aside uh due to uh some communication errors uh we were not able to meet um and I think going forward uh being our new person will be starting uh in June 7th um third third I'm sorry sorry yep um we maybe the week after they kind of get their seat in the the seat in the seat uh we can as a the subcommittee could meet with that person and kind of go over the plan or do you want to do this as a complete Workshop I would suggest a workshop what do you guys what's the commission think suggestions I think a workshop's a good idea okay then everybody yeah be on on the same page and you good with that yep okay we can do a different day typically we see the workshops happen before the commission meeting so usually it would be the same day but an hour before we can also do it a separate day whatever would work best for the commission with enough enough time I don't I don't think we need to I mean an hour with some of the stuff I was looking at I don't know if that would be quite enough time we would need at least an hour and a half two I think we can iron most without out in two hours okay okay okay I can start to work out scheduling something and send something out are there days that in the next month would not work for sure like weekdays is there days like Tuesdays don't work for people or is there something that would be better or Tuesdays aren't good Tuesdays aren't good okay good idea Sarah she's asking now oh yeah are there any days of the week typically that don't work no we don't necessarily know all of our full schedules right now but let's see I can make most things work as long as I have a little bit of um leeway okay or you know what I'm trying to say yes I'm ahead yeah thanks June 5th no uh June 13th cuz I imagine we'd never do it on a Friday would we no no June 13th no okay other than that pretty open in June okay anybody else in the park starts on the 20th concerts in the par yeah starts on the 20th oh that's right oh we don't want to do the 20th either thank you well there's a few days in there we can see what we can do well how about like the 17th that's a Tuesday it's a monay well we got to we're going to want to get a hold of Sarah too mhm so we're giving it enough time now we're talking almost three weeks out and that would be before our next Park meeting so maybe tentatively we'll do we'll do yeah does Mondays work for people if we did Mondays it we can even do earlier than 6:30 if that works for anybody or um but I can tentatively put something on the books for okay 17th all right we want to have it in the evening or yeah almost I think so yeah yeah yeah even if evening even if it starts at 5:30 yeah and Sarah and Sarah yeah yeah if we could not if we could do it like after 4:30 4:45 so I can do kid care to sure yeah we down ear great we don't doable for you too okay yeah I'll put down 5 to 7even then for that day and if there's any issues I'll reach out sounds good all right uh 2024 2025 event calendar yes I put that on here because Laura asked for that last meeting um to check up Laura yes to check up and make sure I believe what you said is to check and make sure we're on schedule with everything for this year and then put together kind of preliminary looking at for next year so because we were originally going to hand that over to the event EV person but the events person/ position doesn't exist anymore it will exist they're hiring currently okay in the search for that so so we just we just basically need to bridge the gap for the next couple of months just to make sure that our summer stuff is on track it sounds like music in the park is handled already yes and I have the checks for all of the artists as well for that those days so awesome it's all good to go we're not doing a food truck night so we don't need to worry about that uh the bottom Arts Festival is moving forward that's fallish um the Starwatch Starwatch is we've got a date set don't we October 2nd yep yes so we're just on hold until we get closer MH so I think those are our main summer events and if those are handled then we're then we're good think we're golden perfect great awesome anything else on that um I just said also included a preliminary schedule for next year too just placing in dates so we could kind of get an idea of where we're sitting for events for next year so um you you guys can take a look at that too and if there's any feedback cu the Fire and Ice we might want to that would require ice that would require snow too yeah that would require below below freezing all right okay so you want us to take a quick look at that is that what you're saying I mean we certainly can I did the only thing that I think is new was the request for the park cleanup day um oh yeah that's right 26th of April for next year yes um which we did not set times for so we can do that at a later time too um but if yeah just to be aware of it if that works for you guys that works for me yes I have one uh question yeah I feel like we never really got an answer are we doing uh are summer meetings in the park or do they need to be here from my understanding they need to be here okay yeah great then it's a non question Perfect all right that's all I had for that all right uh then let's go to reports for staff uh I'll start with Dave uh yeah I need to do a little followup uh I was contacted by Southwood Nature Reserve uh task force uh Daryl and back in February he was asking for some funding uh for a memorial bench for Southwood for um Kathy Kathy Kath thank you Kathy Trumble uh and you were going to check to see if there was any funding that the park commission could put forward to said park or said bench so I'm just uh wondering where we're sitting with that if there's funding available and is it viable that we put a memorial there in that part so I wasn't here for the February meeting so I think that might have got a little lost in translation I think when Jill was asking about that previously there it was getting complicated with the funding but I'm not positive so I can follow up with okay Finance on that at least I'm having a flash of like they wanted it to be uh like the downtown benches yes but so the question is can we pay for something that's like the downtown bench and can it go into Southwood the benches that are like downtown are now roughly $1,700 okay um the question I we do have I think one or two benches now in Southwood uh there's no plaques no nothing they're just resting areas um but then and there was a concern brought up being it's a memorial can we put that in that a memorial in that Park um or does it need to just be a park maybe a plaque or something on those lines so I think uh we need to look at uh where the family was thinking of placing the bench or do we want to play replace one of the older benches that we do have there we only have the two um so there's a couple things we need to consider if we want to continue moving forward with this and and can we spend Park money on something right yeah that's a big question that I'll have to get an answer for I imagine what we probably could do is replace an older bench in Southwood and then the family pays for a plaque that goes on that bench yeah there you go because but it wouldn't yeah depending on the type of bench cuz like the ones we have now that've been replacing are similar to the ones we put in vet the Vets Park like the ones in the Vets Park those were all paid for by individuals um and they had to have something to tie in you know like thank you for your service or something like that it couldn't just say uh someone's shop or business and just have it like that it had to have something tied in with the vets particularly which is a good idea and the extra benches we have right now are the exact same ones that just got installed downtown so they do say city of North St Paul on them and I feel like wasn't there a like guidance from the city about what benches you could and could not put in because there was a family who asked us if they could put a memorial bench in at housy and we ended up saying that they could not right because there were like five different styles of benches at housy Park already and they didn't want to add another one and I feel like there was a document somewhere somewhere about uh how to go about that there's a I believe there's a template yeah so we might need to put a pin in it so that we can do more research around if that guidance is still like relevant to what we're doing sure right that's true I did also catch when that there may have been a tree planted for Kathy or Kathy was involved in a tree planting or some sort and the family was interested in having the bench near there however I reached out to the family and they have no recollection of that so just so I can do my due diligence and let you guys know that you don't even know where the tree is it was something about a tree with her granddaughters I feel like yeah and the family said they they don't know where it is okay all right so it can get sticky that's and St Paul Green paid for several things in on Main Street a bench and also a plaque and we planted a tree MH and then it all got torn up yeah and it had to be you know but we all felt bad about it yeah but um so that's just something to keep in mind that whatever we do we want to make sure it's someplace where it's not going to yeah because it's not it's not not us or US not wanting to we want to figure out a way to do this but we also we also don't want to have it you know be taken down or whatever so um maybe we just tell Southwood we just need we need a little bit longer to figure out what the guidance is my other thought would be um maybe on the kef that's there if they want to put a plaque saying something on the kiosk about Kathy on the kiosk yeah like where you walk in off of uh right right right observation deck be really we've done in the past with people who have been involved in Southwood that's a good place for plaque and I feel like that's within that's something that a f did we pay for it or did the family pay for it what's s the plaque yeah at the time uh I think we paid for it at the time was just a plaque for um a couple people that were very involved at the beginning yep I think I think if that I think that would be the less sticky route to go okay um just cuz I I had no idea how much controvers the benches carry yeah so well I mean if the the family is willing to maybe put up a give us like a template of some kind of a plaque they want to put on uh I don't see any problem with that and that's not taking up any space it's not intruding on anyone or anything like that and as people come to the park they usually look at that to see what the events are or what's going on and that would be more of an appropriate place um for her memory yeah it also doesn't open the door for us to possibly run into issues in the future yeah with that being said though when we talk about updating Southwood we should talk about the benches or adding new benches to the yeah replacing the old ones yep um so in the meantime between now and the next meeting I'll reach out to finance and see their input on us paying for um a plaque and then I will also reach out to Public Works and see um I'll find out about the benches also and do some research and see what um if there is a template and what what kind of the guidelines are now as well as in ation on the kiosk and make sure that that's also doable and what we would need in order to move forward with that so I'll bring all that back to the next meeting if that works for everybody because if it's just a plaque or something like that I can install that for them that's not a problem so and I'm right there so okay anything else Dave no nothing else to report who I have nothing I Dave's covered it for me Laura uh I don't I don't think so no Ben nope nothing for me Sarah yeah I got a couple things um the first I brought some uh notes from public works just as an update for you guys um so they have the slide at Polar Park closed right now um due to a large crack in it um so they're getting quotes to get that replaced um but for now it's closed and then they have installed rubber mats under larger swings um to try to avoid the dig out from underneath as well as the slide at Casey Lake um but they haven't been able to get to much more because of all of the extra mowing going on right now which is we can all probably understand absolutely um and then the other thing I will address is the park planning um Consultants that we approved at the last meeting and then or and then went to council that is on pause right now officially with the city manager and the mayor um they have not signed the contract although it was approved by Council um after further digging in into it there are some uh extra financial pieces that were not um they don't like them in there um that would cost us above the $60,000 that was approved so they are in contact with HDA to try to figure out how we can navigate around these extra costs um one in particular was they want topography information and surveys done and the lowest quote that we received was $177,000 which should be on top of the 60 um so they are working through that so it's not done it's just un pause so um I will try to update everybody as I get information on that was it that it wasn't disclosed or it was disclosed but I think it wasn't it was it was in the contract I just don't know that it was noticed by got it yes so it was like added on so it' be the 60,000 Plus plus that and there's a lot of reimbursables that they say they can get as well which it was a lot of reimbursables so he's in process with negotiating with them on that as well so I think we were under the impression it was going to be 60,000 for all of phase one weren't you that's what I had thought too yep so I just meant I just meant like was it we went with them and then they said also we need this or it was in The Proposal they sent us just maybe wasn't highlighted and correct yeah okay all right that's it for me motion to adjourn I have a clarifying question okay if if the mayor and the city manager decide that they don't want to move forward with that contract do we need to redo the process that we did I don't believe so we could just say Okay this isn't what we thought it was and this is not going to work for us and then we can look at the proposals that were sent to us yes okay so I will be um hounding them to get this moving forward thank you okay sounds good thank you all right motion to adjourn I make a motion to adjourn it makes a motion second second 10 seconds all in favor say I I all opposed all right