e e e R call please sure Ken uh Lloyd Greek here Laura Greenley karp here Dave andren here Ben Hansen here ingred kler is absent Seuss springborn here Sarah zarka here and cassid schwe our city council liaison is absent okay we have a quorum we shall continue adoption of the agenda motion I make a motion Dave May andren makes a motion second I second sah seconds discussion all in favor say I I I'll opposed motion to approve the minutes of February 8 2024 I make a motion Dave makes a motion second I second Laura seconds it any discussion all in favor say I I I I'll opposed meeting open to the public do we have anybody on Zoom no no all right anybody would like to speak yep come on up John I give you three minutes you can uh hand this out this is what caused this me to be here this my right hand still hasn't had the uh surgery so bear with me thank you again this was as a result of a request we all can do of government and shows joh can IOP the uh John Brandy needs a copy please you don't mind thank you thank you any John schal 2750 Chisum Avenue North St Paul what I have handed out to you is a result of a data request I submitted just for I don't know why I asked for it and now I say why did I ask for it but anyway for any of the um um building that has been going on here I asked for the uh local whack and Sac charges that's water access and Sewer access and park dedication fees for the major construction that we had here here in North St Paul and you can see it's Anchor Drive apartments the anchor Town Homes The Sentinel and the Lily building and you can see that there's a missing number and there's 89 units in the Sentinel and it's $900 a pop a unit and it's blank they didn't collect it it was part of the construction agreement that they would pay it but it was not paid and I have submitted no less than four additional data request saying who authorized it where is the authorization where is the code where the regulations of the city that says you can wave it and who waved it I've received nothing just a little song a little dance a little Seltzer down your pants nothing absolutely nothing so I don't know as a group if you would be unhappy if you knew that this was done and what would $80,100 duee for parks in North St Paul did anyone here know of this that it was cancelled well maybe you can take it up with your council member and say why because I have failed miserably in trying to find out why and who authorized it thanks thank you thank you thank you okay thank you John all right anybody else from the public all right let's go to number six a park and open space master plan all right I can talk to that a little bit um so Dave Laura and myself have been on a subcommission with Brandy and Sarah to kind of scout out and go through all the proposals that were sent in from Sarah I think that's Item B oh sorry but we could we could do B first is this your plan is a yes that's okay go ahead BR it oh sorry um just to make sure that we're all on the same page so item a is the the park Citywide policy guide for Park and Recreation and open space in the community so as you can recall from the last meeting that we had we were going to set up a subcommittee to review the draft um at that point in time I think we had um maybe three of the I think came out to be five chapters completed and we just weren't able to get that subcommittee uh scheduled to meet and then in the interim I had put in my resignation and so in order to just get get something completed I went behind the scenes and just cranked out what I could and to give you a complete document before my departure so what you have in the packet today is um the three additional chapters that weren't in there before so a summary of our public comments from our um survey that was completed over the course of the summer summer uh some needs analysis which includes um some research from the National Park and Recreation League or board or Association I can't remember what the acronym is um as well as some just reminder about equity and uh physical other other kinds of ADA type system system changes as well as a review of all of our existing plans that address Park and Recreation so our comp plan the um WSB 2022 Park and open space plan or the park Improvement plan plan rather um the bike plan that I don't know is ever actually physic adopted by the city so I did a compilation of all of those recommendations and that's included in here and then that last chapter is basically kind of a a guide on what you could do moving forward in terms of policies so I would recommend that perhaps your public works department prepare a a maintenance um maintenance plan and if you're going to do Future Park improvements that are going to be widespread like with howy park or with the mcnight park plan what we're going to be talking about under item be we would need to have a a two-step planning process where we would have a conceptual plan prepared by a a professional consulting firm that could help with that um doing Outreach and then State step two would be the uh Construction Construction document phase so I'll leave it up to you to to dive into any questions or comments about the the draft and if there's any changes that you would like to see I can try to get that incorporated yes there's a couple little airs okay on page 27 it says um the aration system it says Silver Lake I mean these are picky things it's noty things are appreciated because we want it to be right so page 27 says 20 or says page 27 says Silver Lake but it should be Casey yeah yes and then um on 36 page 36 it cost talks about Dorothy Park and Dorothy Avenue I don't think there is a Dorothy Avenue I probably got that information from a history document so maybe the street name's changed so I can modify that yeah it's on Lake Boulevard so but that could be confusing to somebody um uh and actually that's really I didn't I didn't understand the SE Park thing but that doesn't matter it says that's what it used to be and I never remember that being called on page 44 which doesn't matter anymore because I never heard of it call it Central Park either but now it's being called Central Park it's it's on our mapping system as Central Park and I that's what somebody else told me yeah it's and I I dug through the the files um you know the physical paper files on all the parks that I could find and I think Central Park I'm trying to remember what I read but it has something to do with the now um Veterans Park was well that was Central Park that was Central Park that was Central Park and if you look at the old historical photos there used to be a pavilion there as big as this room and that was called Central Park so I don't know why all of a sudden North St Paul Green we called it the place where the round Garden is and you mean this across the street yeah where we're calling Central Park now yeah so if Central Park is not correct what what would we call it I don't know you could leave it now at Central Park uh but back in the days back when we had the Canon and stuff up here that was Central Park yeah I asked Terry because I heard Terry Terry Fon call at Central Park and I said where did that come from and he said I'm not sure where it came from either I think it doesn't matter I don't object to it but it's just people like me are going to say Central Park you know they don't know what that is yeah I agree and I don't know that it's even going to remain a park in Pur it's part of our development site yeah it's it's really small but that's just across the street from here yeah yeah so and then I also I did not know that Rotary Park belong to mindat that was my other question but I've been told that that is correct that is correct that was just recently oh is it rebr up oh okay as I was reviewing this document last week um just reading through it again I I noticed that too um that I had written that it is owned by mot and then I went back to the map to confirm because I had been under the impression as probably most of you have that it was a city park because the city maintains it any other comments any other questions I'll just make those Corrections well I probably should I hate to even mention this but because I don't think it's important but another citizen had brought this up to me Colby Hill is not kby Hills it was Colby Hill and a neighbor up there approached me and said that's not supposed to be Colby Hills it's Colby Hill I don't know when singular we just put the S on it and I I don't think it's important but that one person it was to her it's been brought to council's attention oh it has yeah well I mean I would hate to see signs changed in things because of an S yeah I don't know where this status of well it seems silly to yeah okay all right but it is a big deal you should mention those things y we all are citizens of St so I'm just cheap and I hate to see money spent to take an S off of something I wonder if we can just put like a sticker over it like a blue square over it this citizen has tried to do that yeah oh okay well it sounds the I think so it sounds like maybe it's a problem that's bigger than us and we'll be told what to do when it yeah happens okay well then maybe I don't know in this document if you want to take that s off is the question I'm not sure if it's I'm not 100% sure that it is Colby Hill and not Hills yeah Ramsey County has it as Hills we had to do some research on that too yeah so plural yep so I don't know when that changed or what that process looked like but well and the reason it's important is the person we're talking about her family has lived there forever and her family was part of the neighborhood that built it okay it was was n the City it was a neighborhood that made this community center and named it Colby Hill and so that's why it's important but down the road is it important I don't think so but right yeah however there is documentation for that would I can do that I can send that to you I know we mentioned it to her on the phone she's called us a bunch of times too um but I can also send you both the documentation too so you can see that and have it if you need it yeah perfect the whole team perfect I can do that thank you whereabouts is that Park I'm trying to find it in the couny right off of b or excuse me right off of South and uh between Jennifer and sth or seven is it 7th Avenue up mhm yeah that's the one with the Steep Hill but also the there's like a pavilion there it's a really big Pavilion and an open lot across the street and a playground new playground it's my neighbor it's my neighborhood park yeah anything else for Brandy yeah um I just want to take a minute and thank you for putting all of this together uh a lot of people would have been like I'm leaving I'm not doing this um so I appreciate your personal Integrity around this and the information that you're giving us so that we can move forward with as much information as possible because we have been left in the Lurch previously and had to rebuild completely and it took us literal years to do so thank you for doing this well you're very welcome I I I wouldn't feel right about about that and I really want to look and see if this Colby Hills is if I could find the plat the historic plat and just seconding off of what Laura says the document is really beautiful it's really well laid out easy to understand and I know um for those of us who've been on this uh Council through Co have gone in circles on this park document so being able to put a stamp on it and feel good about it at least uh in the right direction is is promising and and I it's my understanding and belief that what you have in here didn't throw the baby out with the bath water it was just building upon and and providing Direction in terms of policy and how how to move forward um and not specific Park recommendations so those Park recommendations that were outlined in your 2022 plan they're still in here um but I think it's up to you as you consider your your new priorities based on public Outreach and your um your your Council budget and your annual CIP process you can then reevaluate every year what you think is is important to fund awesome okay so touching on this plan um I've been mentioned by by some of council members brought to my attention that this specifically has not been proposed to council brought to council described now that this is completed by Brandy do you feel comfortable coming to council and doing a presentation in regards to par well we're planning on being there for the May the first Maye yeah the first May meeting yeah Sarah and I are presenting to talk about the um the next topic which is our what is it called our development I'm calling it The what is it in the agenda it's the the group planning Services planning Design Services yeah Park planning Design Services so we're coming to council to talk about who we chose for park or who we would like to choose for Park planning um so we could talk about this at the same time at the same time I don't know I think this is going to need to be separate the meeting two different agenda items I think is what they mean okay it ALS I also want to be very clear and upfront and say that I am not sure I would be able to adequately defend the plan at this time so if that's something that you feel like we would need to be prepared to do then we would probably need more time I would say don't bring it I would say we can take that okay okay well I'd like to make a motion by next meeting we look over this entire document and say that this is what we really want to do that would give us ample time for each one of us to look over this plan the master plan and if we agree with it we should move forward so we can present it to city council S I would like to make a motion by next meeting we make a motion to accept or decline the master plan I don't know if that would be a motion but I think you could request that all of us come prepared at the next meeting to read it we'll put it on the agenda yep Sarah yep so everybody's got homework anything else for Brandy on that thanks Brandy you're welcome all right uh be Sarah all right well you heard my first Spiel um but Laura Dave and I um as well as Brandy and Sarah have been working kind of offline to work through all the proposals that the city got for um basically a business and design partner to work through all the potential plans for mcnight Fields as well as the pocket park and downtown um Green Space that we have um there was an overwhelming amount of uh was I think 12 or 16 companies came in with a bid um they ranged anywhere from 23,000 to 110,000 for that first phase um and so we went through all the proposals we narrowed it down to three we had interviews with them last week um the top three companies and we really came across with a clear winner um so the company HDA uh which is um I have some notes on them just to give you a heads up but they were the ones I believe they did theater Worth right yeah if you're familiar with the trail head building at Theo worth park the ski lodge that uh they did that Park design um and they've done other local uh local designs as well that are both um well they're like spectacular they're beautiful but they're also really functional so they seem to strike a really good balance of those two I part of what comes at this phase one is taking a look at all three properties um that we gave them and then kind of laying out a thought and plan for what this could be around um starting with kicking off consumer research so getting into the community understanding and asking people what would you like to see in those spaces we really liked their holistic approach um that was really inclusive to not just people online or people you know that can typically answer to surveys this was a really thoughtful approach of getting in and getting to people who may not even always be able to answer those surveys um we were really excited they um had a North St Paul connection and one of the main uh principles lives in Oakdale and grew up in this area and knew all about our snowman and about um the potential that these areas could bring so that really kind of drove it home for us they also kind of landed smack in the middle of price so they weren't the cheapest option we had um we did vet out that option and we just felt like that group was going to give us sidewalks and benches and we just weren't um we just weren't terribly excited about that bringing the potential for what what we have to offer so um we would like to go to council at the first meeting in May and propose this so that we can get moving that being said if Council approves this we can go that company can get started like ground running and start hitting that research this summer potentially using the car show ball games things are going to be used utilized this summer to kind of get feedback so that we can potentially even not waste time and waste three years to do this we can maybe even start some phase of development next summer um 2025 so um that being said Dave or Laura do you want to add anything to this no I think there were um of the top the the last three that we did interview uh they really stuck out I mean some of their projects they've done in the past were pretty spectacular and they're willing to kind of cater to our needs and I feel with the way they want to do the research to check with the community um I'm all for this this company so they they also have my recommendation and if you need I'll be with with you at city council at that meeting oh perect so I would also like to um and this is maybe a little U Brazen but I'm not scared because I've been saying it since I started on this commission a million years ago but um I'd actually like to bring in front of council the opportunity to maybe acquire a different space within downtown seeing what this company can do with a small amount of space is really spectacular being able to bring something iconic idealistic something that can represent our community can bring entertainment to downtown for families and other people um who could utilize that space as we get more and more people moving down here um right now the spaces we've given um this company to work are very small and I'm I'm hopeful that they can do a lot with that small amount of space however I think when we show you some of the stuff that they can do the idea that just a little bit more space to procure something like this could be even more impactful to downtown and if we're going to spend $60,000 to have them write a plan I want to make sure they're doing it on the right space getting the right information out there so um that being said if if you don't mind Cassidy I wouldn't mind just putting it in front of the council to just rethink think about the space next to Sidewinders or even some of the other spaces that have been brought up in the past as City owned land that would we be able to acquire a little bit more space um to do something that could be a little bit more could give us a little bit more impact to do something of different options blacktop down there was to beace potentially so I don't think it hurts to mention it yeah yeah I just I think that um if it's amazing to see what they can do with that small space down by the VFW but it's a at the end of downtown which is hard it's a small space it's stacked right on top of people who are living there so we love this company cuz seeing what they could do um in natural scape to actually prevent some of the noise or whatever would come from that but we're just thinking if there's something more in the heart of downtown how much more um how much more this company could do and I just hate for them we're going to pay them to these little pocket Parks I'd hate for them to go back and rethink that whether you know if we sign them up for it maybe they could idolize that space you know as we talk about it would that potentially change a contract that they have drafted I don't I don't think it would change it substantially because first we don't have a contract yet okay um and I believe the downtown space what they have proposed would probably be the same um in terms of their scope of work so but if but if they are going to change getting it done now as opposed to when they start the project is going to be yeah I mean the first stage is going to be that feedback which will probably impact no matter what space we have which I feel okay about but it'd be the building phase obviously which is still a ways away and there's some consideration around that it's just there's some elements I mean this is all Community um reach out to the it yeah well even if there's a bar in a tattoo shop a little Ampitheater or Band Shell could fit in perfectly there and maybe a play Space by the VFW I mean the more spaces we given I don't want to say more spaces but the right spaces that are given to utilize the community reaching now there's I still think regardless of what's there now that tattoo parlers may not be there in 50 years but our par could be so um I think that's what we have to think about well right now the big is selling on that particular contractor very much when it comes to they're not the cheapest they're not the highest right could could I jump in here on on the pricing um so the the the Consultants all provided sort of two tiers of pricing so the first would be for this plan that they're proposing to do now and this company is right on budget um as far as what we have included in our CIP and phase two um it's very hard for all of them to the way I warded the RFP it was difficult for the Consultants to know how to quantify what phase two would cost it's hard to say what it's going to cost when you don't know what you're building and so what came down to and I had some followup with uh each of the of the firms to give me a percent cost of construction for the design and I guess that's a industry standard um and they ranged from I think 6 and a half to maybe 11% construction cost and then we ran the numbers to figure out well if we had a $500,000 project what is the overall cost to the city going to be and so we were able to figure that out this company was on the lower end so they were seven and a half not dead last um but I think it overall price value this is a company that I think is going to be probably one of the better ones I do I do want to say too that like we all know that a company can propose to us what they think ultimately they can give us but one of the biggest reasons that we pick them is because of their amazing attention to detail in their Community engagement strategy and really taking the time to make sure that they're hearing everyone's voices in the community and taking that and figuring out what would best serve them and um we all agree that there should be a downtown park um and I think as we go through that process with the company that is so strongly dedicated to this community engagement strategy and data collection strategy that that information will ultimately inform us what will best serve us and really what our goal here is is bringing to council a company that we would trust with this process and we believe in this process and that we vetted and then once Council approves that that's ultimately you all saying we trust your vision we trust their Vision now we just need to listen and that may be we need a big park down toown that may be something we haven't even thought of um but they really seem to be experts and creative problem solvers and so I think getting this in front of council is our first step and then kind of trusting the process going forward is is where we need to aim our efforts right now I don't think great yeah well what I also liked about this company is some of the stuff they were looking at how we could improve and enhance uh mcnight Fields um changing some of that stuff over uh not maybe once they look at the community surveys uh but it may not be where they have everything just for sports you may look at putting some different playgrounds or something like that like where the tennis courts are or putting some rectangular fields in there for like soccer and stuff like that so um is the fact that they could say well it's not just for this we could find ways to utilize that so we're not just catering to a small group uh of citizens where we're bringing in so people of all ages would be able to enjoy the the area so that's that was one of my things that sold me on that yes and again all of that information would be coming from community members um and all of our different users so again the firm is an expert in their field and they help us become an expert in our community and what they want and it's just our job to listen um after we get the plan approved so we can actually move forward and do something what was the name of the contractor again hga hga thanks and their entire presentation is in our packet um and I know it can be a little daunting uh to look at it's very wordy but they have some great highlights and it's actually like really good content to read so it would be worth the 15 minutes to read it anything else it Sarah so in included in your packet is a recommendation or a resolution to recommend approval of this um consultant to to city council so if you wanted to make take motions on that resolution so I would like to make a proposal to uh recommend hga as the uh Park planning and Design Services firm Park planning and Design Services firm for future Parks projects for the three do we have to specifically no there there's a resolution in your packet so just um recommending HDA for Council approval yeah we recommend we recommend H for resolution you guys should be making a motion yeah so you to approve or to like to make a motion to approve uh recommending approval of a contract with HC to complete Park planning and Design Services second I'll second Dave seconds discussion seeing none all in favor say I I I'll opposed boom all right on to park cleanup discussion yes I added this because watching the last meeting there was some talk here about if we wanted to do bring back a park cleanup that Dave said had happened in the past so um and it wanted to be added to this meeting so if there's a discussion that wants to be had if we want to talk about having a park cleanup day this year or if we want to maybe um work out a plan to start that next year kind of what that might look like well i' like to see us make a plan for next year um usually what we used to do is have Park cleanup right around Earth thing so like this last weekend would have been Park cleanup um there were a few citizens out in Southwood doing some cleanup and stuff um just recently so it's not like it's dyed but people are just doing it on their own but I think we get it out there so they people know hey just come on out and pick up a little bit of trash might take 5 minutes might take 5 hours our parks are pretty clean so but to get it so we get the the community involved and that way we tie always tie in with Earth B so my proposal would be to add it to our agenda so it's an event happening right around Earth B in the future I agree we'll have to get with um North High School because there was uh the track coach but I I've been told miss Mr Waller is retiring so we're going to have to follow up and I can do that too come next spring see if they wanted they're going to continue to do this with this the track field track and field uh Team I have huh St Peter yeah oh yep thank you yep and marks there's a few of them there's a few of the churches in the past had helped us with Buckthorn PS and stuff like that so but I think rather than just tying it to the high school because when we first had Park cleanups so now I'm talking 15 years ago when I maybe 16 when I was first a park commissioner we used to do that all the time and then the high school kind of took it on themselves remember the last couple years that I was a park commissioner so that would be about 10 years ago they their group then would pick like six Parks themselves the the different different athletic groups through the track and field would come out and start cleaning up because they they run through a lot of our parks for their training so they were more than willing to help and they kind of kept their area kind of like a their own little entity so the students could come back to uh North High afterwards and they would have hot dogs or something like that um whereas some of the other Parks depending on what the cleanup tasks were there was one um for instance at Southwood one of the master naturist would have pizzas that he would purchase for a big group that were doing like a Thorn or something like that so but like I said I'd like to make a motion that we get this back on the the agenda so it's on a schedule for future generations to contribute to park cleanup and TI it into uh Earth Day can bring it we can bring it back up next spring and then make sure it gets on the agenda I can make a note to have it on the January agenda that way we can get a good head start okay I'll do that that's all I had for that yes yes yes oh so you going to need to know before January right yeah youan okay yes let's look at July usually or when we talk about budget soon yeah finalization okay then we got to get can we get on the agenda for next month yep great can wait can I clarify something sure why do we need it on the agenda can't we just say right now that we want it added to the parks that's my motion was no second it but got a motion um no we don't I don't think we need to motion it can we just all agree that we would like to put Park cleanup on the weekend of Earth Day on the next Calendar's event yeah we don't have to go to city council do we no no great may you okay with that yes okay okay just be that's it so let's just look at dates really quick uh fast forward a year in the future um it looks like the weekend before Earth day would be April 19th and 20th East is that Easter Easter when is Easter Easter at Yeah March I thought it was on 420 I'm almost positive I'm pretty sure it's April 20th and we always used to have it on a Saturday and Southwood does their own thing yeah that's what I thought so we're going to have to touch base with that too I talked to darl a little bit so that's Easter weekend the 20th and 21st or the 19th and 20th so we want to go the weekend after weekend after which would be the 26th and 27th so the Saturday you said so the uh April 26th okay of 20 25 25 already to clarify we do want a calendar for 2025 events at the next meeting do you want me to put that together at least a template to look at because I think that was part of the thing last year right we need at least discuss budget because we didn't have enough we thought for automo Festival yeah so I can do that I can put together yes and so we'll just proactively have this on there so we don't have to perfect discuss it again yep sounds great okay cuz then we'll have time to get it the city council right Yeahs yes yeah it was too early to get more budget meeting that went off the rails epically you remember yes so that's why we needed to get that done sooner than later to get a budget proposal so yes so we're going to want to talk that next in the in the May meeting yeah May meeting yep perfect and it should be 95% done because we've all kind of agreed that we're well we weren't going to add new stuff because there was going to be the position that was managing events yes can yes for my preliminary discussions with him it will be that person again is his understanding in the interim I'm kind of helping with that but um I think the goal is to have the new person but I will for sure clarify and get back to us who was doing music in the park um ingred was yeah yes and then Carrie was going to do it y but Carrie has already planned it she did plan it they're all booked oh yeah so we're okay we're good this year perfect so maybe volunteer coordination is probably not handled though so we should keep that in mind that is true when you bring when you bring next Year's calendar in front of us next meeting can you also bring this year's C calendar yes so that we can relook at the events to make sure that they're on track absolutely okay can do that perfect thank you anything else well being we're talking budgets so C it's Cassidy right would you look into this matter that John brought up earlier let's can we bring that up your reports so we can stay on agenda track yeah I'm just thinking well if this would be part of our budget that would be great so I'm going to run through each so you can just shoot it out that time Public Works update yep so I included this in your packet pray your request from the last meeting um so I have the updates from public works for March and April you can see them in there um pretty standard things it looks like they got um the tennis courts all set up batting cages um all the ball fields are set up and running everybody's using them which is wonderful um and then they finally finish their irrigation system around Casey Lake um around the around the building there so now they're going to go through with landscaping and make sure they can get the grading back to where it should be and make it smoother um so yeah everything's moving forward and then later this month they're going to have their summer help start so we'll start seeing them out in the Parks right have the volley around I do not know that but I can get clarification on that y Lake okay where are we at with howy or is that going to be a different monster um howy had their preconstruction meeting last Thursday so construction is going to be occurring soon um I think it's lated to be done in June I I have the preconstruction schedule I think on my desk so if you want to report back to them maybe in Anil email perfect perfect all right anything else on Public Works nope that's all I have okay reports from Commissioners I'll start with uh Cassidy then I'm going to go around to each of the members do you have anything no not right now nothing call me huh well now we're changing it uh Ben anything nope Sarah um nothing new nope okay Laura uh we haven't made any movement on it but we haven't forgotten about the Community Gardens and the want for them in uh the city so I just want to make sure that whoever is watching hears me say we still have that on our radar we just have a couple of other things we have to move forward first uh i' just like to thank Brandy for all of your hard work and dedication to this Commission and we wish you well thank you I really appreciate that you're welcome Sue nothing David go for uh they did a a burn over at southord n preserve which they did quite a few little spot areas which uh right now with the last little bit of rain we had that's just popping uh public works also was able to get some of the trails chipped um and with the warm weather lately I've never seen the park more active it's and you probably seen it on your end oh yeah there's a lot of people using it so I want to thank public works for all the work that they've done over there in the fire department uh for getting that control burn on it was really a windy day I was kind of a little concerned but they they had it completely under control and it was a great job uh in the other Park and which was Northwood that everything there looks fine okay so did we notify The Neighbors in the area about the burn no might we want to in the fut city did yes the city did there was something on the webite there was something on the website yes okay yes good enough for me all right uh Sarah Brandy anything else not for me motion to adjourn I make a motion to adjourn David makes a motion second a second two seconds all in favor say I I I all opposed