right in the room. Okay, there we go. >> All right, I'll hereby call to order the Roseville City Council meeting for Monday, July 21st, 2025. Mr. City Manager, would you call the role, please? >> Council member Grath >> here. Council member Bower >> here. Council member Stron >> here. Council member Schroeder >> here. >> Mayor Ro >> here. Uh and with us at the deis by way of introduction we have our city attorney Rachel Tierney who's on my right at the end of the day. We also have our city manager Pat Trean who's on my left at the other end of the day. Uh we'll have staff uh and guests who will be introduced as their agenda items come up on the agenda this evening. Um do want to cover a couple of housekeeping items for folks. Uh we do have um additional uh copies of the agenda on the back table underneath the big clock by the back door. uh if you need a copy to uh follow along with the meeting. Um there is also one single copy of uh all of the meeting materials in a large three- ring binder back there which is available for the public to share uh as long as you are willing to share it with other people. Uh but your agenda is yours to keep. Um do want to also note if you have a cell phone to this is a time to make sure that it's silenced or otherwise won't be disrupting our meeting this evening. Uh, and there'll be other instructions as we go forward with items that require public comment or are likely to have public comment. We'll talk about that at that time. But at this time, what I'd ask is, if you're able, please stand for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. First on our agenda this evening is uh approval of tonight's agenda uh or I guess second. Well, third it says actually. Uh Mr. Tre, I'll check with uh you first from a staff perspective. Are there any changes that are required to the agenda this evening from a staff uh perspective? >> Uh Mr. Mayor, no changes by staff. >> All right. Uh, are there any council members who wish to make a change to the agenda this evening or to remove an item from the consent agenda for separate consideration? Does not appear to be the case. Uh, this is the first opportunity then for members of the public uh to weigh in. Um, we do want to check as we approve our agenda this evening. Um, you'll note at the bottom of uh page one of the agenda, there is an item 10 or a section 10 called the pro the consent agenda. Uh these are items that are fairly administrative and usually can be considered non-controversial in nature are taken up at the end of the meeting as a single motion without a lot of opportunity for public comment. But if somebody is here this evening to comment or ask a question about one of those items in section 10 at the end of our agenda this evening, this would be the time to let us know uh and we can move that item to earlier in the meeting to uh give you an opportunity to provide your comment or ask a question. Uh, is there anyone here for an item in section 10 of tonight's agenda? It's 10 A through F this evening. Does not appear to be the case. Uh, with that then we will uh I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as presented. >> So moved. >> Second. >> It's been moved by Council Member Grath, seconded by Council Member Bower. Uh discussion on that motion. Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Opposed. That passes unanimously and we have our agenda for this evening. Next on tonight's agenda is uh public comment. This is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on items that are not on tonight's agenda. Uh we will have opportunities for public comment as agenda items come up this evening. Uh but we do want to provide at the start of each meeting an opportunity for members of the public to speak in a more general basis on items that are not on tonight's agenda uh but may be related to city business or of interest to people in the community. Is there anyone here this evening who wishes to speak under the general public comment uh this evening? >> Yes, ma'am. >> May I just ask a question? >> You may ask a question. >> Okay. My question is I well I live on County Road C. It has nothing to do with the construction, but I live right AC, my husband and I and our family live across from um the school there, the Lutheran school. Um >> actually, why don't you come up and have a seat at the microphone just so folks uh at home can hear your question. >> If it was a quick question, I was going to let you do it from your seat, but I'm gonna I'm gonna get the spotlight on you here if Okay. >> We live across from um the Luther I forget what it's called. All of a sudden, I >> North Heights. >> North Heights. Yes. >> Okay. And that's a school there and they have a playground. And I've always wondered and I should have wondered this much longer ago than 25 years. But is there no school zone as far because I what I get worried about because I see an awful lot of um potential issues and a site a chain link fence will not prevent a 2,000lb vehicle from you know it'll breach a a fence like that. And I was just wondering if there's a special re way to go about zoning for speed zones for school zones. >> Um there is there are standards I'm sure in the public works world for speed zones related to schools. I don't know what they are. Uh so what we'll do is we'll maybe see if we can't have staff uh get back to us with that information and maybe as part of the agenda item on County Road C we can uh try to follow up on that. >> Great. Thanks. >> All right. Thank you. other uh members of the public speak to speak under general public comment this evening. >> All right, with that then it doesn't appear to be the case. We'll go ahead and proceed with our agenda. Uh we have a couple of items under recognitions and donations. Uh and the first one is a proclamation related to the anniversary of the dis Americans with Disabilities Act. Uh and I will read the proclamation and then a um motion from the council to approve would be in order. Uh the proclamation reads as follows. Whereas since 1990, the Americans with Disabilities Act has focused on ending discrimination against individuals with disabilities and promoting full integration and participation in society. Whereas approximately 20% of Americans have a disability as defined by the ADA, a number projected to increase as our society on average ages. And whereas as a direct result of the passage of the ADA, an increased number of children and adults with disabilities are living, playing, working, and shopping alongside their neighbors. And whereas Roseville is becoming inclusive and free of physical communication and social barriers. Uh and whereas state and local government services are continually improving uh and providing increasingly accessible services and programs to motans with disabilities. And whereas state and local governments including Roseville are beginning to understand the importance and relevance of providing accessible digital information and electronic services to motans with disabilities. And whereas on this 35th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act, we celebrate and recognize the progress that has been made and we acknowledge the challenges still exist on our horizon and we reaffirm our commitment to full equity and inclusion for all. Now therefore be resolved, the city of Roseville hereby declares uh July 26th, 2025 as the anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. >> So moved. Second. >> It's been moved by Council Member Stron, seconded by Council Member Schroeder to approve that proclamation. Is there discussion on the motion? >> I'd just like to acknowledge uh thanks for having this part of our um meeting and part of our proclamations. I think um the continued awareness especially as we redivi defi design our um city website and such really make sure that we continue to hold ourselves accountable to the for the people of the city who may use these resources. And that particular um ADA uh was hard fought and the folks uh climbed steps without wheelchairs in order to make sure this happens. And we have to make sure we hold that um especially important so that we don't backslide and lose some of the traction that some of these folks um need when you talk about equity and versus equality. These are things that create a level playing field um in the world of equity so that everyone can um potentially achieve Right. Other discussion on the motion. >> Council member Sharter. >> I I just also wanted to do a shout out to our our parks department and all the good work they're doing in the inclusive of playground equipment. I think that's been a real key thing for our city to show that we support this and and again that and it continues to go forward. We have a number of things coming up that we're going to continue to make those um playgrounds and and parks accessible to people and children. So, I just wanted to make sure and point that out as well. >> Right. Thank you. Other comments. All right. We've got the motion before us to approve the uh the proclamation related to the anniversary of the ADA. Uh if there's no further discussion, all those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. >> That passes unanimously and that proclamation is approved. Uh the second item under recognitions and donations is an annual uh recognition uh related to the Golden Kowanas in Roseville. And maybe a representative or two from there can uh come up to the table and be prepared. Uh we have a proclamation of Golden Kowanas peanut day in Roseville. And I do want to give the representatives of the Kowanas an opportunity to uh inform us as well as members of the public as to what uh peanut day is and what maybe a little bit about what the Kowanas does. Thank you. Uh my name is Jim Buer. I'm here on behalf of the Golden K Club and I came with several of my uh colleagues here tonight. The Golden K Club uh is a is a club made up of seniors. Uh we meet in the Oval uh every week. Uh we do a lot of things, but among the things we do is we do a lot of work for the benefit of the community and primarily for children and youth. Um we do a lot of volunteering. Uh we volunteer, we clean up the park behind the the oval there about every other week, try to keep that squeaky clean, but we also volunteer with a number of organizations that benefit children and youth. We uh tutor kids in the local schools. Um, we volunteer and contribute to, I'll talk about in just a minute, organizations such as Community Partners with Youth, Northeast Youth and Family Services, uh, Bridging, uh, Every Meal, um, um, Keystone Community Services, um, and a number of other organizations. Uh, Kids in Need Foundation is one we volunteer with a lot. We also contribute to organizations that we volunteer with, including schools. We're in those organizations volunteering. We see what needs are and we make special contributions. Uh every year we contribute somewhere around 30 to $35,000. We've contributed well over half million dollars uh since 2009 to the community and to these kinds of of things. We provide scholarships to graduating seniors. We gave eight this year, uh, six last year, all of them to students within the Roseville school system. Um, in short, we we do a lot for the benefit of the community. The peanut campaign that we're asking you to assist with by passing a resolution is the primary fundraiser for our club. 100% of the money raised goes to the benefit of the community. Uh, any club expenses are paid for by member dues. So it everything we raise goes and so we're asking for your help in the form of a proclamation to help us kick off our peanut campaign for 2025. >> Right. Thank you, Mr. Blair. Thank you for the representatives of Golden Kowanas for being here this evening. Uh to kick off your campaign, I'd be happy to read the proclamation. Uh and then there may be an opportunity for uh people in the council as well as in the chambers here uh to uh obtain some peanuts as part of the peanut uh uh activities. So, uh, with that, let me read the proclamation. We'll have a motion, uh, and then we'll officially kick off, uh, the peanut campaign. Uh, the proclamation reads as follows. Whereas, the Northeast Metro Golden Kuanas Club headquartered in Roseville is an organization dedicated to improving the lives of children and youth. And whereas the Golden K Peanut campaign provides business, professional and uh entities uh and individuals with an opportunity to help support the community initiatives focused on children and youth and food insecurity. Whereas in order to help finance its many and varied programs, the Northeast Metro Golden Kowanas Club has requested a day be designated as a kickoff for its annual peanut campaign fundraiser. Uh now therefore be resolved the city of Roseville here, excuse me, hereby proclaims uh Monday, July 21st, today as uh Roseville Golden Kowanas Peanut Day in Roseville. >> Moved by uh Council Member Grath, seconded by Council Member Schroeder. Uh any discussion on the motion? >> I just thank the Kuanas Club for all the hard work you do in the community. Really worthy causes that you work with and it strengthens our community. It's what we need for community builders and appreciate all your hard work. >> Thank you. >> Right. Other discussion. Uh, Council Member Sher >> and I I also wanted to thank you for all the work you've done and all the organizations you um help out with it. It it's just really really appreciated. So, and I'm very happy to support this kickoff. >> Thank you. >> Right. Council Strong. >> I'd just like to shout out uh Dr. Jim House who uh retired when I worked with him when I was very young. And yet here he still is working really hard and feeling of this advocation of um Golden K. And I'm sure others with that work with him feel the same passion because they're here every year and I really want to thank you for your continued dedication to our city. I didn't even live in Roseville when I worked for you and now I'm here and you're still doing the work. >> All right. Well, with that, we've got the motion before us to adopt the proclamation. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously as usual. Uh and uh we are kicked off with Golden Kuanas peanut campaign. And I understand there may be some folks with peanuts here this evening. >> We approach. >> So we may approach. >> We do try to schedule uh very uh publicly interesting uh topics on our agenda when it's >> kickoff evening. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Well, are you going to go up? Thank you. >> I should say there's no obligation on the part of any attendees. >> Who's got the donations? >> He's got a cup over there. >> Oh, no. I'm good. I'm good. >> All right. I'm required. >> It's on It's on credit, I guess. >> I got I got you. >> This is our bracelet. I don't need anymore. >> If we go to 10:00, we might need >> indeed. >> I'm good. I'm really good. Thank you. >> Absolutely. >> That's good. >> Of course. That was just a couple weeks ago. I was just that was just a couple days ago on Thursday. >> Thank you. >> I don't think >> no. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you again. >> Have you been here? >> Probably. >> It's a little more. >> All right. I think that was a pretty good kickoff with that. Uh that brings us to our business items this evening. Uh and our first business item uh is item 7A, which is to receive a presentation from Ramsey County Commissioner Mary Joe Magcguire. Uh and I think we have a special guest, Ling Becker, the uh county manager as well here with us this evening. So I'll turn it over to Commissioner Magcguire uh to kick off the presentation and make whatever introductions you need to make as well. >> I so appreciate Wait, I better get this closer. A little far away. >> Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor, council, uh, and city manager. It's just so great to be here, and it's great to see such a great crowd here at your city council meeting. I always love doing a little Ramsey County update and I know we have a lot of slides, so I'm not going to go over all of them because you have a really full agenda and so we'll go through, but I want to let everybody know that the uh, slides are attached to the agenda. So, anybody viewing at home or anybody here who wants copies of these, they can get them on your agenda or they can call my office and get copies because I will I will go through them um rather quickly. And uh just want to say how much I appreciate this time. I'm here with my county manager, Ling Becker, who we'll I'll introduce a little bit later. And u just excited excited to be here to uh to do this. So, just a little bit. I am uh your county commissioner. I was some of your state representative many years ago uh for 16 years and uh I'm a Roseville resident. So I want to first of all thank you for all the services that you're providing in the city that I live in and uh I love the I love Rosefest. I love our Fourth of July celebration. I love the concerts at the Rock. I love all the parks that that you have and all the great services. I met with our fire chief David Bosnahan the other day and just learned about all the amazing things that they're doing at the fire department and I know that your your police chief comes to a lot of the events that I'm a part of with Rotary and the Optimus Club and just want to thank you for your great participation and it's a joy and an honor for me to to live in the city and thank you by the way too for coming to my to Applewood Court my Applewood uh place my the condo that I live in and you gave a report there uh some of you were there for that. So, just want to say how much I appreciate the work that you're doing and congratulations to Golden K on the peanuts. We got eight packs of peanuts. We're going to talk about it at our board meeting tomorrow. We're going to give a a thing of peanuts to every every uh every board member uh tomorrow. So, um anyway, we have one of the uh most diverse boards in the country, I think. Uh definitely in the state. And uh we set the county's vision, mission, and goals. And so we do uh represent uh the the policymaking body of the county. Our values to invest in people, serve with integrity, value community, advance equity, and empower leadership. And this is our mission and vision which all of our departments have. County of excellence working with you to enhance our quality of life and our we are a vibrant community where all are valued and thrive. We are very focused this year. I mean well as always on county responsible services what are the services that only counties can do that and those are that ensure the health safety and well-being of our communities where we are now very focused because of the shifting we call it the big shift of the dollars that uh of the uh services that we're required to do but the dollars that do not follow the services. So this year especially uh we're being cut at both the state and federal level as I know you are as well and so our budget is going to be really stretched and we are going to be looking at only those services that we have unique responsibility for and where no other governmental level does it. So we're going to be saying no to a lot of things that we've tried to do in the past because we thought they were important but it's only where we are required now to do things. So it's going to be a tough tough budget year and we're going to talk a little more about that. But mainly um we have service teams that deliver our services. And um I just want to talk about some of the things that we do in partnership with our communities but that we provide to the community to all of our all of our residents but as we know our environmental service center is right here in Roseville. Uh it serves the entire county. Uh we did you know that right there at Kent and Larpenter is the center of our county. We have as much north as south of that. So we put a pin right in the middle of the county and lo and behold that was where it went landed. So, we're very excited about this environmental service center. And if you haven't gone to it, everyone should take a tour and bring your disposables, bring your hazardous waste, bring your your get your items fixed at the environmental center. We have our great library. Roseville Li the library in Roseville is one of our um is one of our busiest libraries in the state. So, we we really value uh being a part of of this city. And we have an emergency communication center that serves all Ramsey County cities. This doesn't happen in every county, but we do do emergency communications and uh we do we provide election services for Roseville and for all of our cities in the county. We love our parks as I know so does Roseville. We uh have over six million visits annually and we have several in Roseville which we love. Lake Josephine uh and also Lake McCarron. So, we love that we uh have partnerships with the city that you provide some services at those parks and we we have the parks. So, we uh are we are always grateful for that partnership. And then we have a a lot of public works. I know you're having someone from public works come and talk about county road C. Um these is this is just a list of some of the things that we're going to be working on or are working on in uh on our roads. And that is a big service that the county uh provides. And so, um, County Road C, Hamlin Avenue, County Road B2 and 27, and Victoria Street and 28. So, if you want any more details on this, please contact my office, Rice Street 28, and Rice Street and 29. We really try to um spread around all the needs that we have on our roads. And we have an HA levy that we are also spreading around throughout throughout the county. uh includes critical corridors programs and I'm getting to what Roseville has done. We love our partnership with Roseville. Your community and economic development department works with us and uh you've given out loans, first home loans, rehab repair and you have affordable housing development and so thank you for that partnership. You got a critical corridor grant, county road beelling, pedestrian improvement study and then Rice and Larpenter Alliance uh got funding for for their work and then you have an environmental response fund at Twin Lakes. So good work using the HR levy that is new for all of us and we also uh partner on small business support and we have an economic development what what we need is tax base in Ramsey County. We need more revenue and so we are really working hard on the park at River's Edge which is in St. Paul on the river there and the Rice and Rice Creek Commons. This is the way we're fully developed and we we need more redevelopment to increase our tax base. So that's our goal in both of those um efforts. And now I I'm proud to introduce Ling Becker who is amazing. We were so excited. She came from our workforce development. She she's transformational. She's helping us transform our county. I said we're the best county in the country because not because we do everything perfectly, but because we look at what we're doing and try to be better at it. And she's really leading us in that work. And I just want to say thank you. So here, let's see if I can move it over. Nope. You better come. You better sit here. >> I'll sit a little closer. We'll sit. >> Yeah. Good. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Uh council members. Thank you for having us. Um happy to introduce myself as the county manager here since September or September 1st of last year. It's gone by really quickly, but I'll just I just want to spend two minutes to tell you a little bit about myself. I'm a first generation immigrant. I actually had my first job as public sector working at an ice arena very similar to the Oval popping popcorn. And by the time I was a senior in high school, I had the pleasure of working in the city manager's office. So, I've had uh a lot of stints in different levels of government. Um really uh really see the value in public private partnerships. I did um a significant amount of work in economic and workforce development um in my previous roles and certainly saw the the connection to people being a really critical part to how we build better communities and more economically thriving communities. So, lots of good work done in land building capital as we develop our communities, but if we don't get the people part right, um we're going to leave the most critical asset, you know, kind of uninvested in. And so, really been focused on that and certainly grateful for our relationship with the city manager. really tried to reset that relationship with all cities to really build uh more of a a relationship of of you guys being customers to the county. We're a complex big bureaucracy and I know cities need a lot of things from the county in order to do their work and we've been trying to improve that across the board. So, um I have the role of managing what's our strategic team which includes our finance, HR, our government relations and obviously supporting the county board of commissioners. uh they hire only one person um in in our organization which is me and then I'm tasked to managing the the rest of uh the organization. Um I wanted to just spend a little time, you know, again I I mentioned that we've been growing our city county partnerships. We've had some significant leadership transitions and we're about to kind of uh get most of the interims out of our leadership team. That's always kind of a a hard thing to do when you're having a significant leadership transition, but we're almost there. And then I wanted to spend the bulk of my time talking about what we call these tri uncertainties or try realities. So we can bring a little bit of what we've been hearing at the state and federal level down to the locals uh for you to understand some of our challenges and and opportunities in some ways too to to improve our work. Um I like to think about you know uh there's like a prism of impacts when we talk about all the things happening at the federal government. We're seeing some uh direct county investments being uninvested in. We get a stop work stoppage order, for example, from the federal government. The county gets about $120 million a year um in federal grants of some type. Um and then there's also indirect. We're seeing a lot of things that are being pulled from um local state projects for example, uh infrastructure, roads, those things are not direct to the county, but they are direct investments that are not happening in our local communities. Um my next slide will show an MMB slide that there's actually a website where the state is tracking those. you can actually click by Ramsey County and see what grants are and what projects are at risk or um actually been discontinued. In addition, I always like to remind people of the Oh, well, and also the indirect also has a significant um impact on our nonprofits. And I appreciated what you guys just heard about the impacts of some of these groups in your own community. You know, right now we more than ever need other people to fill in some of the social safety net for our communities because we have significant pressures when we used to fund a lot of nonprofits in our community and we're going to be um more it's going to be more difficult for us to do that as we feel additional budget pressures. Um the collateral damage I will say is the reductions in federal staff. For example, people hear you know the Department of Veteran Services, they're cutting a lot of employees in in Washington. how that impacts us indirectly is, you know, we administer veteran benefits. So, we're struggling to get the information we need, the processing time, the support we need to do that that work. And so, that's a bit indirect, but still very important. I will say we've seen a significant amount of data elimination. And that's very concerning particularly as we try to make more data informed um investments particularly in public health and things like that to make sure we are kind of closing disparities. Um, so that can be very challenging. And then, you know, I think, um, you know, as a public servant most of my life, I think, um, representing a large organization and you guys also, you know, having a staff, it's a little bit demoralizing in public service to feel like it's it's being uh, dismissed as something like not honorable when a lot of people have given a lot of years of their life trying to make the communities better through working in in public sector. And then just there's a overall trauma and harm. We get a lot of people asking like, is it a safe place to come to the county to go get resources? Can I trust my uh police officers? Can I trust, you know, my my EMS or, you know, to come for help? And those things really do take a toll on communities. Um, see here. And so this is the website I was talking about through MMB about 35% of the current state budget is comprised of federal grants. And so, uh, as we are seeing things get locked up in either court cases or being defunded, you know, these have impacts on our local community. I will say, you know, when you see a a road project get discontinued, whether it's to the state or to the city, those are jobs in our community as well. It's not only we are not getting more infrastructure, but those are small businesses that might be working on those projects. And so there's a lot of uh indirect impacts of all the things happening in Washington. Um I will say with the reconciliation bill that passed over the 4th of July uh weekend, we were just uh Commissioner Magcguire and several of the commissioners and I were just at our National Association of Counties. We have uh significant uh co federal cost shifts happening. Um what is anticipated to be about 10 million dollar10 trillion dollars of cost shifts will happen over the next 10 years. We are talking about a significant reorientation of who does who's responsible for paying for things um in our in our current uh ecosystem. when you think about it and if you remember um the CARES Act funding with like um post during the pandemic the American Rescue Plan where the federal government was here to like shore up the needs of a local community. We are at the complete opposite where now the federal government is the funding pressure that is causing uh a lot of uh distress into our economic systems of how we serve our communities. Um and so this is a slide I actually pulled from Niko. you know, as counties face these unprecedented federal shifts, you know, that we have we're left with a few choices. We either cut back on critical services and as Commissioner McGuire um indicated, we're very focused on our county responsible because at the end of the day, we have to deliver 911, we have to deliver elections, we have to deliver child protection, for example. Um uh we also could deliver services at a new cost, which is very difficult. Raising local taxes, uh delay or cancel infrastructure investments and then absorb long-term economic and social consequences of underfunding programs. And we know that could mean, you know, significant folks losing uh the ability to own homes or maybe be able to get the resources they need or keep families together based on, you know, family stability and things that counties do. Um, I wanted to just mention and you guys, you can read this as a lot of information, but we there's significant Medicaid and SNAP impacts based on both eligibility and administration that's happening as a result of the reconciliation bill. Um, about 37% of Ramsey County residents receive Medicaid. Medicaid is actually the number one funer of mental health services in the state of Minnesota. So, uh, Medicaid is a a really a really critical resource in our community. Uh there are currently 85,000 MA cases in Ramsey County. We have about 525 thou thousand residents. So you know this is a very very big number of residents. Uh we have 35,000 SNAP cases in Ramsey County. And so we are going to feel a significant shift here. And uh Minnesota is unique. Um sorry that that first map doesn't uh do it justice with the white but you can just focus on Minnesota. in both Medicaid and in SNAP. Minnesota actually is in a unique place. Uh in in Medicaid, we're part of 25 states that actually uh contribute to Medicaid uh directly. And then in um in Medic in SNAP, we are actually only one of 10 states that administer SNAP. So in the bill itself, it actually puts different pressures on the states that have these like kind of designations. And so we are unique um in the sense that not all states feel the same impact, but we are actually in both camps going to feel significant impact because of the way SNAP and Medicaid have sort of been um administered and dispersed in in the state of Minnesota. So we continue to work with our association of Minnesota counties. We're also working uh pretty significantly with our national association. And this is aside from the state budget. So we actually just got through the state budget. I don't know if there'll be a special session, but as part of that deal in the state budget, there was a commitment on counties to, uh, get to a working group with a bunch of stakeholders to try to figure out $180 million cost shift in the next year around disability. So, um, services. So, we have both stuff happening at the state budget and then these federal pressures as well and then this kind of like overall looming uh, federal actions. And so I just I think it's important as we talk to local communities that you understand that we're trying to manage all of these uh things that are kind of pushing against our ecosystem of our work. Um this is some more data about Medicaid. I just think people don't realize how important Medicaid is to our community. Five and eight nursing home residents uh are are recipients of Medicaid. So I think there's a lot of un um uh misinformation about who actually gets Medicaid. It can be called different things in different states and people are all of a sudden realizing, oh, Medicaid affects me, too. So, I know in rural Minnesota, greater Minnesota, they're very worried about their hospitals. There's a provider fee that we actually haven't talked about here, but it's that's another significant pressure. So, um, so in all, um, I I think we wanted to just bring that reality to you all as a as a conversation and continue to share with the city manager and with others as we learn a little bit more. I think certainly if they have a special session, we'll we'll have a little more of an idea of what's going on at the state level. And for sure, most of these federal things we will see evolve in 27 and 28. And so these are things that we're trying to manage against. And so with that said, I wanted to share our budget process and we're continuing to, you know, work with each city's finance team and the city managers, but we will be we do a bi-annual budget in in the county. Um we are at the cusp of rolling out a a 2627 budget that will be shared with the board on September 2nd, the day after Labor Day. Um the county board will then hear budget presentations. I'm sure this process is very similar to maybe what you guys do. There'll be some public hearings. We'll set the max levy. Uh there'll be a truth in taxation and then the board will adopt the budget at the end of the year. So we'll stay in good communication, but wanted to make sure we shared that as part of the presentation today, too. So happy to stand for any questions. I know that was a lot of information, but I was told to keep it uh I know you still have maybe a wrap-up slide. >> I'm just going to wrap it up. So, this is what we want to do. We want to continue to work with you. I want to remind people to apply for our community advisory boards and commissions that those are all there's always opening. Contact my office. I just want to remind people that uh when we have these pressures and we have these shifts down on us, we have limited ability except for property taxes. You know, we have some sales tax but property as as the city. So, this is your property taxes that's going to bear the brunt of a lot of this and we're we're frustrated about it as well. So, just wanted to let people know that we we we're going to share your pain as we all try to deal with these budget shifts. So, um with that, we will open it up for any questions, but people should feel free. My assistant is here, Michaela Campbell. Uh we are happy to answer any questions you have um at any time that can call our office and sign up for my newsletter. Call my office and get on my newsletter. It's a periodic uh uh email newsletter that uh gives information about the county. >> Thank you. Yeah, take a breath. We appreciate all the information that was shared and it it felt like uh felt like uh it was done in in some sort of record time here. >> I think so. We appreciate that, but there was a lot there. So, we there may be questions. I did want to just uh thank you council uh Commissioner Magcguire for the followup with the residents around McCarron's Park about the incident that was a couple weeks weekends ago. Um I there was a great chain of email communications and follow-ups and so I appreciate that and one of the things I took away from that was that I didn't realize that the county parks follow the alcohol policy that's in the ordinance in the local community in which the park is located. Uh so we're going to be looking at if we need to make adjustments to our ordinances in that regard. So, you know, that that seeing the the the communications back and forth on that even informed uh us in Roseville of some things we may want to take a look at. So, it was a helpful process. >> It was a great example of how fast it can work, too. I mean, it was within days that I think we were figuring all this out. It was very good. Thank you for your prompt all of your prompt responses and yeah, I think we were able to get get some Yeah. more more information and and learned all of those things. >> Right. Well, and hopefully we can as everybody that's responsible for what's going on in the park can can work towards improving some of the the issues that that were highlighted by that particular uh incident. So, um appreciate I just wanted to express that appreciation. Uh council members, are there questions or followup uh that you've got with our commissioner who's here this evening or with Miss Becker? >> Uh council member Gra >> just to comment more. Um that's a lot to absorb. Yes. >> And of course, we're looking at budgets, too. So, we're >> we're we're stressed with that, too. And it sounds like there's another layer of stress there. >> So, I appreciate your cander. Um things we need to know about and uh we're all problem solvers, so we're going to have to look at all this and work together to make this work. But I appreciate your presentation. I I don't have any specific questions, though. Thanks, >> Council Member Bower. >> Yeah. Thank you for coming this evening, sharing all that that was wonderful presentation. I was wondering you noted that there's a lot of uh stress in your budget. I was wondering if you could comment on the percentage of your budget that's not statutory if you know that. >> Yeah, that's that council member Ber that's a very complicated question because we are mandated by so many weaving grants and things. That's something I could try to follow up with you, but that's a it's it's unfortunately with such a huge budget of of things that we do, a lot of things are mandated, but then they stretch beyond the mandate a little bit based on what we're expected to do. So, it it's interwoven and it's a difficult question to answer, but I I certainly appreciate it and we'll do my our best to get you something that's reasonable. >> Yeah. >> And if you don't mind, uh in your presentation, you didn't comment anything about uh the public safety. I was wondering if you could make any comments about the sheriff's department and the jail and staffing and what you're looking for going forward. I know public safety is a concern uh amongst all residents in the county. >> Yeah. So, um, for for just the record, you know, um, many cities in Ramsey County use, um, our sheriff's office as a contract, uh, provider. In those cases, the those cities pay for the complete cost of that. You guys obviously are not one of those contract cities. Um, the county runs multiple um, detention facilities. We have the adult detention center, which essentially is our our county's jail, and then we also have a Rams County Correctional Facility for folks that are waiting um, trial. We have a juvenile detention center as well, but I think what you're asking for, council member, is around our adult detention center. We've constantly been at a very high census. Um, we're supposed to be somewhere in the range of about 500 there. And at times there's been pressure way above that. We have recently made some investments to move some of those folks from the adult detention center over to our Ramsey County Correctional Facility so that they can have um a little bit more um other amenities and programming. Um, unfortunately due to the mental health issues in our in the whole ecosystem and the lack of mental health beds, often times our jails, our you know, even our situation and our homeless uh um uh housing unstable folks out on the streets as well as our emergency rooms have become places for people to stay if they're uncompetent to um to go to trial, for example, or waiting um that determination. So, we've continued to try to keep that low um as much as possible, but it is very difficult. And I will say our situation is not that unique compared to other uh large detention facilities like the one at Henipin who also struggle with that. But our main concern has been we've been trying to work a little bit more with Regent's Hospital. Uh there's significant pressures of like the emergency rooms. I mean, it's coming to a a significant pressure point where there's everybody in that um continuum of sorts, whether you're trying to solve homeless issues, whether you're at the hospital where you're where the jails are saying the state of Minnesota needs to really um come up with some better solutions when it comes to mental health beds because we're actually putting a lot of folks into our into those systems that actually just need a mental health solution. So, um, but we're trying to keep that census down and we haven't had any, you know, unlike Henipin who's had some, um, uh, force reductions. We haven't had that, um, any time in the recent time. So, we've been able to at least manage that. >> Thank you. >> And I appreciate you bringing it up. Yes, I should add that slide because when people say, "What do counties do?" I said public health, public safety, parks, roads, libraries, and elections, and all these other things. So, we do so much, but public safety is definitely, you know, and our and our correction system is definitely a key component of what of what counties do along with our public health department. So, I was trying to keep it low on slides even though I had a lot of slides, but thank you for bringing it up. Certainly, >> it's a great question. >> Right. Other questions or comments from council members? >> All right. Well, thank you again for being here and for all the work you folks do. Uh obviously every everybody has roles and responsibilities and uh it can't just be done by one entity. It's got to be kind of all the different levels and everybody working together. So we do appreciate all those opportunities to do that and thank you for being here. >> And another just shout out to all of you because you've always been all of you have been willing to go for walks with me, go for coffee and so we stay connected and do our our partnerships uh really really well I think. So thank you. Thank you all. >> All right. Right. That brings us then to our uh second uh business item this evening, item 7B, which is to consider awarding the sale of the city's 2025 general obligation equipment certificates. We have our finance director, Michelle Petri, with us this evening, who will make an introduction of our guest uh and talk about uh the process and how we got to this point this evening and where uh what we're being asked to do in terms of awarding those equipment certificates. Miss Petri, >> good evening. Um, Jason Ars Arvold with Ellers is one of our municipal advisors and he will go over the sale day report. At your desk, you do have a copy of the sale day report and a copy of the final resolution. And what you are being asked to do is approve the issuance and sale of general obligation equipment certificates for the purchase of the electric fire engine. With that, I will turn it over to Jason. >> All right. Well, good evening, mayor, members of the council. As as you said, my name is Jason Arzold. I'm one of the adviserss along with my colleague Stacy Quilling have been working with the staff to bring this forward for your consideration uh this evening. Uh there were some several steps in the background to go out and do that. One of those steps was to have the issue rated. So we worked with Standard and Pores to obtain a rating on these bonds or these equipment certificates uh to help uh with the marketability and the interest rate component there. That report is in the sale day report that you have. Uh you'll be happy to see that they've affirmed the city's AAA rating which is the highest rating that standard and pores assigns. Uh and if you read through that report, they note uh you know some things that you all should be commended for, which are your good financial practices uh and policies at a council level, but also the staff uh management also of the budget, your strong reserves, the strong economy and tax base within Roseville. All those factors contributed to the city's AAA rating. Uh and why that matters is because uh that helps attract uh more buyers for your bonds and that leads to lower interest cost. So uh one of the things that uh we help the staff do is really conduct this sale and how we go about that is that we uh have this done sold on a competitive basis. So we help prepare for basically a competitive sale of the bonds uh which is kind of just like you would undertake for the purchase of an equipment or bidding out a road project. We uh put all the city's information together, go out to the marketplace and ask them to submit bids. And uh what we then do is recommend awarding that uh the sale of these equipment certificates to that lowest bidder. And we did that this morning uh in our office. We took those bids. You'll see uh in the report that there were seven biders, which is a really healthy number of of folks that bid on the bonds. You know, we sometimes might see two or three, but in this case, we had seven. And again, a reflection of that AAA rating uh at a rate of 3.1136%. So that was the the low true interest cost, which is the measure that we use to decide who the lowest bidder effectively is on those bonds. And in this case, that was TD Securities out of New York. And so, uh, what we then do is pull all that information together, uh, bring that to you this evening. Uh, the resolution that's before you tonight then is to consider awarding the sale of these equipment certificates to, uh, TD Securities in the amount of $1,790,000. Your initial report I think talks about $1,880,000. They the this particular purchaser included a premium which we can take and use to reduce the face value of those bonds and still net the same proceeds for you. And that goes into the math of calculating that true interest cost on the bonds. Uh and so so you'll see that that amount has been reduced. So for whoever may make the motion, the amount is is $1,790,000. So with that, I'm happy to stop. I'll stop and I'm happy to answer any questions about the rating, the sale process or or the or any other questions you might have about this bond issue. >> All right. Thank you. Appreciate that, Mr. Arville. Uh, Council Member Strong question. >> I'm wholly out of my league and asking this question, but when I do a quick search, it indicates that TD Securities is wholly owned by Toronto Dominion Bank with Montreal, Bank of Montreal, Toronto Bank of Canada. Can you affirm and the bank of Nova Scotia, can you indic who we are speaking of in this situation? Toronto Dominion Bank. Uh, mayor, members of the council, the the bidder was the TD Securities USA LLC. That was the effect that was who effectively bid on the bonds. They often do this in a consortium with several uh purchasers. They just are the lead institution in this case. >> Okay. Other questions? >> Council member Grath, >> do we have any history or rating for this company that we're potentially working with? The Securities TD Securities LLC. >> Uh, mayor, members of the council, we we we have seen them uh bid on other bond issues that we've worked on. Uh, we don't have any concerns with this particular group if that's what you're asking. Yeah. Any other questions from the council? Right. I do want to uh check with the members of the public if anyone from the public wishes to comment on this proposed uh issuance of these equipment certificates. Uh and the sale of the sale of those to this entity as outlined in the information presented this evening. Uh this would be an opportunity for members of the public to speak to this. Um is there anyone from the public who does wish to speak to this item this evening? does not appear to be the case. Uh that being the case, we do have the resolution. Uh and just to be clear, uh the it's a bench handout uh for the council here, but it actually is also I'm presuming this is in the materials uh for the general public in the back of the room as well as the electronic packet since the bids were received. That has all probably been updated. >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you. Um with that, is there a motion from the council? >> So moved. Second. >> It's been moved by Council Member Schroeder, seconded by Council Member Bowerer to uh adopt the resolution uh for the issuance and sale of those uh bonds as outlined in the bench handout resolution. Discussion on the motion as the maker of the motion, Council Member Schroeder. >> It's fairly straightforward and I was pleased to see that we had seven bidding on it. So that that was that's excellent. So thank you. Looking forward to um putting these to good work. >> Great. And as the secondary, Council Member Bower, >> I second what Council Member Short said and good use of using bonds for this long-term asset. >> Great. Other discussion on the motion. Council member Strong, >> I just appreciate an additional step toward uh having being a city with an electric fire truck and um being that example and that ability to be a forward thinking city in regard to clean energy. >> Right. Other discussion on the motion? Um, and just for members of the public who may not understand what equipment certificates are, uh, or what that means, uh, the city of Roseville and cities in general and government entities don't borrow money the same way that, uh, individuals or businesses might borrow money going to the bank, paying an interest rate uh, in exchange for the funds to buy a house or whatever it might be. Uh so cities sell bonds basically and we pay interest to the buyer of those bonds as part of the the exchange for getting the money from them to make the purchase or build the building or whatever we're doing. Uh and so it's a little bit different process but essentially it's the same in the sense that we are getting money up front and we're paying a cost on top of that for the for the privilege of of having time to pay it back. uh and certainly sophisticated investors out there understand the process and they uh see uh government financing uh um tools like this as as good investments for their particular needs and so that's why there's a competitive process. I am pleased that we maintained our AAA bond rating. I think that's really fantastic uh as I think only a handful of cities in Minnesota have that bond rating as I understand it. Uh the other thing I would note is that gets us the benefit of that that competitive interest rate. Um it would be a challenge I think to borrow money uh in in other way other places at that kind of interest rate. Uh and so we do uh you know benefit the taxpayers of Roseville by having uh that good credit rating and as a result uh uh paying relatively low interest uh out there on uh on what we're borrowing. Uh and was noted as was noted this is an opportunity to um purchase our electric fire engine. So that's uh all all kind of win-win wins across the board. So that's why I'm supportive of the resolution. Uh thanks for everyone's indulgement and that little bit of explanation. With that, if there's no further discussion, we do have the motion before us to approve the resolution for the issuance and sale of those $1.79 million worth of general obligation equipment certificates. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> Opposed. >> That passes unanimously. That resolution is adopted. Sales approved. Thank you to everyone involved in that. >> All right. Next on our agenda, uh we have uh item 7C, which is to consider a a um petition for vacation of right of way uh that is known as I believe it's Aldine uh in Roseville here in the southwest portion of the community. Um some pronounce it Aldine, but I I've heard it both ways, so I'm going with Aldine myself. Um but anyway, this item uh as folks may know was before the council as a city initiated potential vacation of rightway uh earlier this year. Uh that was not able to receive uh the required four-fifths vote or 2/3 uh which works out to be four-fifths in our case. And so that was not uh that didn't go forward. Uh but in the meantime, the intervening time, the residents adjacent to that property then petitioned to the city for that vacation. And so that's why we're here this evening. And I apologize to Mr. Fryhammer for potentially giving part of his presentation. Uh but I will turn it over to our public works director, Jesse Fryhammer, to bring this uh before us for council consideration. >> Uh thank you, mayor and councel. Well said, mayor. Um you you did take some of my thunder, but that's all right. Um so yeah, so this was uh very sim this is a very similar process to what we've uh brought before you for brought before you previously. Um just a few updates. So um this is the same rightaway vacation that was considered on June 16th. It is 30 ft of rightway is dedicated in the Mid Oaks Plat. Um so that's between Rose Lawn and Ryan Avenue. Um attached is an exhibit. We did have a survey done um just to confirm right away and to just clarify where the existing kind of informal pathway is. Um both these images are from the same drawing. The one on the right's just a little bit more zoomed in, but there's a little bit of a meandered pathway. Um on the north side, it's more in the um on private property. as it gets to the middle, it's it's in the existing uh um platted right away. And then as you get further south, I think the driveway traditionally has been kind of used. Um so it goes off property there. So um we did just include that just for to to clarify some questions that have been brought up previously. Um otherwise um I did update the slide slightly. Um but the uh memo as we previously presented um about a future pathway consideration um that pathway would have to be constructed within the 30 ft of the existing rightway we have. There was some we had previously discussed that we don't own the western 20 ft um that is private property that has been confirmed with the county. Um there's both support and opposition for this pathway if it was built or not built. Um segment is 590 ft long. costs as we had mentioned would be between 84 and 177,000 um plus potentially additional costs if we did additional crosswalk treatments um basically the connective to connectivity to the neighborhood um without the connection the walk's about 1900 ft uh further via Fairview or 2700 ft via Snelling um I did add this so um the previous memo we had mentioned um the pathway scoring criteria we did um we did miss in our memo that this is actually Constellation Link in the city's pathway master plan. It's constellation link CK2. Um very uh fancy nomenclature for the parks plan. Um the current plan has the that pathway score pathway scores grow from 5 to 25. So this would rank about 23rd. It gets a little more points than it previously had just because it is a constellation link. And if you look in the square and rubrics, that's that's why that's there. Um otherwise the city attorney uh provided a memo related to the future use of land dedicated as as as rightaway in the me memo. Um the this re the review is if the rightway could be converted into park land so it could be left as natural wooden path similar to other parks. Um and in it it recommends that the council if they do choose to do this make specific findings in support of how a park use with no pathway is consistent with rightaway regulations. So I will let the attorney speak to her memo much more clearly than I. So if you have questions on that. Um otherwise I did update this slide just to kind of clarify what what the constellation and is this actually in the pathway master plan. So in the in the pathway master plan document there's it's a very detailed uh plan. But the actual pathway master plan is attachment five. So that's the actual pathways that are listed in the rank. Um, when the pathway master plan was updated, I believe in the 2016 or 2017 update. I I don't recall the exact year, but we did roll in the constellations that weren't included in the pathway master plan as reference and it was asked at the time that we include those in the scoring. So, we did include them in the scoring, but it is actually a separate attachment. So, that's why it's not official. Um, and as the parks and w So, the constellation plan comes from the parks and w master plan. Um, and this little excerpt from that kind of explains what that is. So, importantly, the parks and recreation system master plan does not intend to dictate the type of connection a sidewalk, trail, etc. as responsibility to implementing a pedestrian or bicycle facility outside of a park falls to public works. However, the links posed in the constellation and sector diagrams aim for alignment with the city's existing pathway master plan with a final location for the link being coordinated with public works in the master plan. So, basically the constellation is just a concept the path the is more of a concept of where you could put a pathway. The pathway master plan is kind of the adopted plan that that that council has adopted moving forward. So, just wanted to kind of clarify that it is still a potential pathway, but it's not officially in the pathway master plan. Um, so the requested council action, um, as the mayor had alluded to, this is a petition, uh, vacation. So, it would be to consider a resolution proving the rightway vacation for a portion of all dine that is located between, uh, the parcels listed. Um, this would be a three-fifths vote requirement, as the mayor had mentioned, since it is a petitioned. Uh, previously it was four fifths. And then the alternative action similar to the previous one would be consider a motion to retain the rightway and designate a public pathway and to update the pathway master plan. Um and then if the vacation is not approved and no other motion is made or approved, the status of the vacation will remain as is. So similar to the previous motion. So with that, that's the end of my presentation. I can certainly answer any questions that the council may have. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Fryhammer. Uh, and I did want to also uh thank uh attorney Tierney for the memo um because I think after the discussion uh last time we were looking at this um the the notion of potentially looking at a park-based solution uh at least came to my mind and may have come to other people's as well and so the question had come up um um as as to whether that's a possibility. Uh so I appreciate that information. It seems that the it's it's uh to summarize the memo perhaps overly generally. It it's easier to to designate if there's actually a pathway as part of it since you're transitioning from a road use essentially to another type of transportation use as opposed to designating a road right ofway as just a park without a specific pathway. Is that pretty well similar to what Mr. Fryam Fry Hammer said a summary of what you had said? It's a fair summary. >> All right. Thank you. All right. U so I just wanted to start with that. Uh but uh with that certainly this is an opportunity for questions uh to staff or certainly the attorney from council members. Are there questions uh to staff or the attorney? >> Council member Strong. >> Um this is actually a question that maybe Mr. uh Trejan or Mr. Uh Johnson, Matt Johnson could answer, but um when we purchased the uh less than an acre spot from the area on county B west of Cleveland, what was the price that we paid in order to purchase that land? >> I believe you talk about the park dedication at the very end of B. >> Yes. >> Yeah, that was park dedication. So, it was acquired through the platting process of that development. So, I don't believe the city paid for it. >> We paid for a small portion. So, Park Dedication uh acquired about a half an acre of it. It was a total of 5 acre parcel and we purchased the rest for somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 to $30,000. Um you're catching me without the background, but it's somewhere around that. Um because we understood that 8/10 of an acre park would be much more usable than a halfacre park in that scenario. So, um we worked with the developer to negotiate that price. It wasn't particularly useful land for the developer as well. So, um, but as the mayor stated, um, the preponderance of it was park dedication. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions for staff? >> All right. Uh, thank you uh for that. Uh, we will provide an opportunity for public comment at this time. Uh, and this will be a chance to review the the rules for public comment. Um, so we do by uh city council rule have uh some rules established for public comment. The first of which is time limit of three minutes per speaker which I will try to enforce uh gently and generously as I can. Uh I know we may have a number of speakers here so we we may have to be a little more strict on that. Uh but I like to note to people that you can say a lot in three minutes uh believe it or not. So uh with that that's that's that rule. We ask that speakers address their comments or questions to the city council. Uh and then uh the city council will then at the end of the comment period uh take uh any questions that were asked and make sure that if we can we can get answers for those uh so that we keep the process moving. Uh we do uh for the official record, we do ask that uh people if you have a name that isn't uh necessarily one that we can guess very well at the spelling. Uh once you're done with your comments, you can step off to the side and let the next person begin to speak uh and there is a clipboard you can just write your name on uh so that we can get the spelling correctly. Uh no need to add any additional information other than uh the spelling of your name. Um let's see. uh everybody gets a single uh chance to speak on an agenda item and so you kind of have to make sure you uh cover what you need to cover uh during your time and if you do uh get go over or start to go over your uh time aotment uh if you do have information written down certainly we can get that to Mr. Trean who can then get it to the council. Uh or you can certainly follow up uh with an email although that may be after action might have been taken. So uh if you happen to have it in writing we can get copies to the council. I believe with that I've covered all the all the items. Mr. Charger. >> Just have a little bit of business to talk about the public hearing notice. >> Oh okay. >> Um so published and legal mail notices have been provided for this public hearing. Legal notices appeared in the city's legal newspaper the Pioneer Press on July 2nd 2025 and July 9th 2025. Mail notices were sent on July 9th. Affidavit of publishing and mailing are available in the office of the city engineer. >> And just to clarify once again, what's the uh the properties that receive the ma mailed notice? Are they within 500 ft of the property? >> I will uh turn to Mr. Fryhammer. >> Mr. Fryhammer is ready to answer that. >> I believe it's all residents within 400 ft as well as all the residents within the Mid Oaks Plat. >> Okay. >> So, I have a map if people need it. All right. But >> thank you. All right, with that then we'll go ahead and and this is as was noted an official public hearing on a petition request for vacation of a right away. Uh and we'll open up the uh comment uh period now with our first speaker queued up and ready to go. >> Great. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor Row and city council members. My name is Mindy Ergson. I live on Mid Oaks Lane and ask for your vote to vacate the Aldine Street right away. In 2022 and again over the past few months, city staff used the city's own criteria, processes, and plans to determine whether there is a city purpose for retaining retaining the rightway. In 2022, city staff determined that this segment along with many others across the city. >> Actually, Miss Ericson, I'm just going to ask you to pause for just a moment. We won't count it against your time. Uh, but I note a member of the public is queuing up ready to go. And I was going to note feel free to have a seat at the other uh chair at the other microphone to be ready to go. Oh, I forgot to mention that process part. Uh, and then if people want to be the next person after that, those there's some open seats in the front row that can be used for that purpose. So, thank you for your indulgence on that and I apologize for the interruption. No worries. >> I I just did there was a person looming behind you and I didn't want you to see. So, it's all right. >> Very good. >> In 2022, city staff determined that this segment along with many others across the city were no longer needed for their originally original city use. The 1938 Mid Oaks Platt described the segment as Aldine Street. This portion of Aldine Street was never built and is no longer planned. More recently, staff's city staff evaluated construction of a city path. The June 10th path feasibility memo reports that building an ADA accessible city path in the rightway would be both environmentally damaging and expensive. The memo also notes that the segment ranked extremely low compared to paths already planned across the city. And finally, the recent land survey by the city shows that about 34 of the length of the much discussed dirt shortcut was on private property west of the rightway in the open flat low corridor around the storm sewer alignment. The city establishes process and plans in part to guide factbased decision-making amid misinformation, conflicting conflicting opinions, and emotion. Please cast your vote to respect the city's processes and plans, to preserve dozens of mature trees, to recognize the city investments already made in paths along Fairview and Snelling, and to redirect the city's limited resources, both time and money, toward critical infrastructure, housing, public safety, and other citywide challenges facing our community. Please vote to vacate the Aldine Street rightway. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Hello and welcome. >> Hi. Um, yeah, I'm just here to urge um >> and if you could introduce yourself. >> Oh, John Reinert and my name is John Reinard and uh I'm just here to urge voting against the petition. Um my wife and I um we bought our starter home on Rididgewood Lane 35 years ago and have enjoyed living in the neighborhood ever since. And as long as I can remember, we've really really enjoyed using that path. And uh for about the past 10 years, um I have been uh home officed uh for my employer Oracle where I work as a software engineer and uh use the path multiple times a day. enjoy it uh using it every day for the purpose of u medical reasons to take walks and enjoy the health benefits of that and um in to you know consider um closing the path uh doesn't benefit the neighborhood. seems like it really um benefits only a handful of people but um really does a disservice to a much much larger majority of people. So that's uh that's all I wanted to express to the council. Thank you. >> Right. Thank you. And just before you leave the table, if you can take the microphone and push it about 10 inches further away from you. These microphones are able to pick up uh sound from a further distance. Uh I know it's a tendency people feel like they need to be real close, but uh they'll adjust for the sound uh pretty well in the in the control room. Thank you for that. Hello and welcome. >> Yes. Hi. Um Mr. Mayor, uh council members, uh thank you for the time. Um having lived in the neighborhood. >> I'm sorry. I may have not have been clear about that in the in the instructions. If you can introduce yourself. >> That's a really good point. >> Indicate either your address. >> Who am I? Yes. My name is Dan Gallagher. I I live at 20009 Hersel Street on Roseville. Uh we are about two blocks away from the north entrance to the trail. Uh we have lived there since 1989 and uh have used the path in question uh frequently uh since that time. uh in trying to understand the issues here and looking into uh what might be the justification for vacating uh public land to private use. Uh I did some uh online searching to find out what the basis for that was. Uh I did find and only found this uh a Minnesota statute that speaks to vacation of streets. It's 412.851. You're probably familiar with that. Um, and I won't read the whole thing, but the the important part that's relevant to this discussion is it says no vacation shall be made unless it appears in the interest of the public to do so. Uh, this path is uh frequently used. It's used by many people in the neighborhood. Uh, the petition that you received speaks to that. uh and consequently it's very difficult for your beat to understand how uh making that path unavailable um by vacating that land to private ownership would be in the public interest. And so I would ask you not to do that, not to vacate the land, to take public land and give it for free to people uh that have been impinging on public land for uh 60 years perhaps maybe longer. Uh so that's one point. Uh the second point um is simply that um uh you're all familiar with the uh 2040 comprehensive plan obviously. Um I would just draw your attention to the last part of the very first sentence of that plan where it says um the plan is to develop over the coming decades and is intended to be reflective of the desires of the entire community. And I would argue that the overwhelming number of people in this community favor maintaining a path of some sort through there. Uh I have heard several times references to trees and damage to trees. I say that's nonsense. It's very easy to put a path through there without damaging any trees. No trees need to come down. I think that's obvious to anybody who would actually walk the path and look at it. So I would urge you not to vacate the land. It belongs to the public now. It should remain so. And we should be allowed to make a path through that path for the continued enjoyment of the many many dozens perhaps hundred people who use that path. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. Hello and welcome. >> Good evening. My name is Ann Lahi and I live at 90 Mid Oaks Lane with my husband and our three children. Thank you again for the opportunity for public comment this evening. My family's perspective is somewhat unique. As we used to live in one of the Mid Oaks homes that abuts the path for 17 years, the path was a quiet, lightly used feature of our backyard. It gave us a chance to say hello to the occasional passerby and our kids a place to explore and play in the woods. At the start of the pandemic, we moved 30 minutes away to an outer ring suburb where neighbors were farther apart and tended to keep more to themselves. Four years later, this last summer, we moved back to the Mid Oaks neighborhood just around the corner from our old house. We missed our village, its warmth, its walkability, and most of all, its strong sense of community. Thank you for having a survey conducted and providing clarity with regard to property lines. Since the last meeting, our family has effectively stopped using the path. Our school route is now up in the air. If the remaining 30 feet are vacated, I fear we'll lose the opportunity for a practical common sense path solution. I would happily clear buckthornne, lay mulch, etc. to create a clearly defined path that is fully on the right of way. If a path ceases to exist, it would be a great loss. Not so much for me, even though I enjoy passing through the woodland, but for all the kids. Yes, they can ride the bus to school or walk the longer, less safe route along Fairview or Snelling avenues to friends houses. And while those options are feasible, they don't offer the same joy and the same freedom or the same connection to place. The Aldine path has existed for decades. Over the years, the route has shifted, fences have gone up, vegetation has spilled in, and epic stick battles have ensued, native woodlands have been restored, and our community has felt connection. Please vote against vacation tonight, not to take sides, but to give the city and our community time to come together and find a thoughtful solution, one that preserves a simple footpath and the spirit of connection it represents. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Hello and welcome. I didn't write anything out. My name is Mary Parnell. I live at 1760 Ryan. If Wheeler was extended from Brim Hall to Rose Lawn, that would run along the east side of our property. We currently do get traffic from Rose Lawn through our home down Wheeler because there are hard surface walkways between Shrier and Skilman and again between Eldridge and the school and we haven't discouraged anyone from doing that. We have a similar wooded area, no man's land between our home and the home on Roselon. But I would ask you to vote against vacating it. I would I could see it happening that we would get more traffic in an area that doesn't have an easement. It might be better to find a creative solution for the easement that currently exists rather than pushing more traffic. there is a need for the school children to get from those neighborhoods to their school. And that's that would be our take on it. Again, I would say that trees don't need to be cut down. Um there is no fence right at Rose Lawn. There is about a 6ft piece of fence that would need to be removed. Um the fence running north south could stay in place and just put the path on the other side of that fence. Um, it it doesn't have to take a lot of money to make a a simple natural path, not a paved path. And maybe we could even get some neighbors willing to help with that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Your comments. Anyone else like to speak on this matter this evening? And once again, we do have the the two microphones, so feel free to have a seat at the other uh mic if you want to be next. >> Hi, I'm Janet Risinger. I live at 1797 Shrier, which is not com very close, but close enough to that pathway that we have used that since we moved in 1991. Um, we love that path, but ever since I discovered it, I have never understood why the chain link fence is up at the end there. And to me, the simple solution is to have that fence put where the line should be and so that you can walk where it is and not where the path should be instead of going through the driveway of that neighbor. I I'd like to know the answer to why that chain link fence is there. It doesn't seem like it's in the right place. So that's it. Right. Thank you. Appreciate your comments. Hello. Welcome. >> Hi. Good evening. Uh my name is Donald G. Live at 2021 Hershel Street here in Roseville. My wife and I moved into our house 32 years ago. So we've lived in that house almost half my life. I'm not going to go into details on that, but but truly it's almost half of my life living here in Roseville. And one of the things I want to start with is saying um we love living in Roseville and I was just looking at the city newspaper and what this city newspaper talks about is the work of this city that all of you lead which is to connect us. You make a connected caring community together. Um I have walked on that path thousands literally thousands of times. Um, if you take 32 years times two or three times a week minimum times 52 weeks in a year, it's 3, four, 5,000 walks down that path. In that time, I have actually seen the people that have homes that abut the path and we wave at each other and we smile and there's never been any concern that I've been aware of until this issue of vacation came up. And and I have to say, and I don't this is supposed to be funny. Vacation always seemed like a happy word to me. And this is something that has caused great great harm. And I'm not saying that to judge anyone here or to say anything bad about city staff or any of you. No one really understood quite what you were doing. And you couldn't have. I think at the time that this vacation request came through, there were probably dozens or hundreds of vacation requests. One of the things I would ask you is, have any other communities come forward and brought the kind of concerns and caring about those vacation requests that this one has raised? Um, I am not asking you to say yes or no tonight. What I'm asking you to do is to figure out and to lead a healing process for our community. Because when we drove up tonight, I was looking and I bet many of us were looking at each other like, "Are you one of the ones on my side or your side? We're neighbors. >> Amen. >> And this this country is falling apart right now. I I don't want, you know, I shouldn't say this, but we have to be the adults that are showing how people can live together and care for each other. So, whatever happens tonight, we have to move forward and we have to find again how to be caring neighbors with each other. Um, and and I say that as a place that believes in this. That's what Roseville is about and that's why we have made our home here. So, thank you. Thank you for your comments. >> Hello and welcome. >> Hi, Daniel Ruin. Ruen 20 Mid Oaks Lane. Lived there with my spouse Claire for the last four years. Um, I'd like you all to imagine a playground where the kids have been playing together for years and and they even love each other. Um, and then this PTA working group, a playground use task force, decides to give the tire swing area to only one set of kids who happen to use it more than others. And so, obviously, the kids are going to start fighting. And it's not the PTA task force's fault. They're just doing this with tire swing areas all over the school district. But what those kids really need in that moment is for the principal of their school or the school counselor or some caring teachers to step in and say, "Hey, you know what? We didn't really think this through. You know, we're going to get everybody together, all the stakeholders, and we're going to work this out for everyone's best interest." Now, I realize all analogies break, you know, when you stretch them too much, and I don't want to think of myself as a child who can't work things out with my neighbors. Um, but what I hope you all can take from my analogy are two important things. One is this is not our fault, the neighbors who care about each other, as this gentleman just said so well. This isn't our fault. This situation was put upon us uh by the city. And I feel like it's it's really on all of you to help us address it, not just at a legal level uh but a relational level. And number two, you know, we're trying to play by the rules uh of what's been handed to us, but uh we need your support to help us think outside of the rules now uh with a neutral third party me mediator because more than having a community walking path, which I do support having, we need to have positive, trusting relationships with one another in our community. I I really enjoy my neighbors uh especially Art and Sarah who are here and Tam who are along that uh right of way and our relationships are important now and I think they're going to become even more important in the future. Finally, I think you all are uh missing out on a test case of how to build more resilience as a trusting community here. I was at the last meeting uh on this issue and I heard so many people say we want to work together on a compromise. We we ask for your help to be creative. We want to slow this down. we can find a different way forward. I'm willing to put in, you know, volunteer hours and uh so I'm asking you if you can't guide us through a situation like this so we can maintain trust in one another and trust in you, tell me what's going to happen when we get 15 inches of rain, you know, what's going to happen when straight line winds come through here and knock down all the trees and we don't have power for 3 weeks or or a tornado. Uh what happens when ice bulks up and starts disappearing more and more people for ridiculous reasons? We just heard an alarming report by the county. These challenges are already here. In other words, we're going to need each other and we're going to need you. Uh, and as a resident, I'm I'm not that encouraged by what I've experienced here so far. So, I implore you to look beyond this situation, uh, beyond a legal or policy standpoint and cast your vision further into what is the true investment any of us should be thinking about in Roseville, and that's in our relationships. So I don't think it's a question of money. I just think it's a question of our collective will. I'm currently a pastor at St. Anthony Park Lutheran Church and we work closely with the community council there, the community foundation, and they have resources for proono neutral third party mediators for just this sort of thing. I'd be happy to share that information with you. So I just ask you to slow this process down to work with us uh fulfill your role as our teachers as our principles as our caring counselors so we can maintain and improve our resilience and our relationships. Thanks a lot. >> Thank you for your comments this evening. U I just want to note this isn't a performance and so we don't do applause or cheers or booze or anything like that. Um so with that we do have an opportunity for another speaker. Hello and welcome. Oh, >> good evening, Mr. Mayor and council members. Um, my name is Michelle Pribble. I live at 1738 Skilman Avenue West. Um, I just emailed you all over the weekend, so I'm not going to read my email. Um, but I just wanted to highlight a couple of things um from it to make sure that everyone um hears it. One, I I also want to thank um Mr. Dr. Fryhammer for answering my question about the the path and the constellation related to um the parks department. I think it is important to note that it's not just the folks that are here and signed the petition about using the path that recognize the importance of this connection that it was recognized as well by the parks department as uh an important part of making sure that the neighborhood is connected to the schools and park system. Um, in my day job, I often work with uh sometimes conflicting rules to try to find a creative design solutions. And I think that's what we need here is a is a creative design solution that can solve multiple issues. Um, there are precedents for doing things that aren't necessarily what was laid out as uh how we would have to move forward with a path. It doesn't have to be a 6 to 10 foot wide concrete or batuminous path. There are ADA compliant paths that are made of crushed rock. There are ADA compliant paths that are much narrower than that. We have precedents in Roseville for using that kind of material. Sunset Park um that was mentioned earlier on Kairo B use some of that some of that crushed rock um if you're wanting to take a look at how that is used there. Um we also have paths just north of this area that are um significantly narrower. The path between Aldine and Ridgewood is about 4 feet wide. So that is an existing path is narrower than the than the pathways that are shown. Um there's also precedent for pathway easements on private property. We've been talking about only the opportunity for creating a pathway within the existing rightofway, which I know is what we're talking about tonight. But as I understand it, an easement is needed for the utilities west that are in the current private property. And perhaps there is an opportunity to create a new pathway easement that follows more or less the existing pathway that is there that would help to preserve the trees and uh allow fences to remain for neighbors that have fences there and vegetation that is existing. So, I think that there is there is a way forward that could um allow us to continue as a community and um hope that you will consider that tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Additional public comment on the proposed vacation of the rightway. >> Hello and welcome. >> Thank you, Mayor Ro. Council members, my name is Tim Brown. and I live at 93 Mid Oaks Lane. And um I'm going to bring it down just a little bit. Um what we we live um facing the the rightway and so we have a pretty uh frequent and constant experience of of that area. And um what what we see basically is that it's a it's a convenient shortcut and and that's and that's got value. Um it certainly doesn't rise to the um recreational feature um level that I think has been portrayed here a bit. Um and we don't see very much traffic down there to be honest with you. And so what where we fall on this is is that we've got this public rightway that was dedicated in 1938 and has never had any attention or improvement or or implementation of of any sort of development over 90 years almost and and it's neglected and it's a no man's land. It's a dirt path that comes and goes. Cuts through private property and and anything goes. Bikes come roaring through there. People walk their dogs off leash. People don't pick up. It's it's a kind of a crazy and and it's poorly maintained because there's lots of questions about what to do there. And so we um strongly support the city's policy to rightsize property rights and management responsibility and allowing the underlying property owners to get the benefit of releasing that from the hold that the rightway has on it. We also um um see that the the city's pathway plan doesn't score this very high in terms of value and I know there's a ton of projects that you all are looking at for pathways all around the city that are much larger transportation connections and so if if you're if you're looking at priorities I think this has got to be pretty low in terms of the the the quality of it and the use of it and uh um for those reasons we we ask you to vacate that so we can properly maintain it and um move on with our lives because this has been a difficult process over the summer for sure. So, thank you. >> Great. Thank you for your comments. Additional public comment. >> I think if we can maybe have two or three more then we'll kind of stay on schedule with our meeting if that's okay with everyone. I don't want to unduly limit folks, but uh that will help uh manage the time. Thank you. Hello and welcome. >> Thank you. My name is Richard McGee. I live at 77 Mid Oaks Lane and I've lived there for 50 years and I have to say that I'm a little bit astonished at what I hear tonight because I've lived there adjacent to that path for 50 years and I don't recall seeing so many people uh walking down there. I mean, there's occasional people that walk down there, but it's it's not and I don't see the romanticism that's that's also being portrayed here. Uh, I've what I have seen there besides just some people walking their dogs down the path, I have seen some kids in the past collect there and and use it as a as a getaway place to smoke marijuana, for example. I know it's legal now, but it wasn't at the time. Uh, I've seen some kids playing there up to mischief, I'd have to say. And so uh and then one final thing uh I think that this idea that you should take these people who bought the property um without really knowing much and when they bought it there was a chainlink fence there. to think that now now is the time to take that fence down uh seems to me quite a quite uh unusually cruel thing to do to your neighbors. So anyway, that's all I had to say. So, thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Hello and welcome. >> Thank you. My name is Joe Prible. I live at 1738 Scaleman Avenue West here in Roseville, of course. Thank you for allowing more public comment on the issue. And I just um would want to say that um I think that every time we have public comment and the longer that this process goes on, we learn more information and um it's important information. And to think that a decision could have been made weeks ago or even longer ago to vacate this property without the information that we now have would indicate that we'd have made a decision too hastily. Um, I think there probably needs to be more time to consider what the options are, especially in light of what we're learning here now tonight and recently. And I think there's a danger of course in vacating public land um to private property owners um in the sense because um once the discussion is closed, that land will of course likely never be available for public use again. um where I don't know what process would uh have to occur for it to be made available. I think a lot of the concerns that have been expressed can be addressed and have been addressed. And I really want to emphasize too that um again I think I think we all come at this with goodwill. I think we can find reasons to vacate and reasons not to. Um, but I think that there's a a clear uh consent well not a consensus but a clear majority opinion on what to do with this this connection and um at the very least I would ask that you would um avoid making any decisions hastily or based on ideological u thoughts that had already maybe predetermined an outcome for this uh this right of way and take into account the majority of what you're hearing from the public, from the people who live here to make a solution that's equitable for everyone, to come up with a solution that's equitable for everyone. So, thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Hello and welcome. >> Hello. Nice to see you all again. I'm Rachel Brown. I live at 1705 Roselan Avenue West and I thank you uh mayor and council members for the opportunity to talk again. It's um interesting that the survey continues to be referenced or people say the majority and and I I understand that there's a large crowd here today, but um I have talked to lots of people who aren't here today who have been nothing but respectful and kind and thoughtful who have stopped walking on the private trail um the private on our private land. So um I urge you not to consider to to say what a majority is based on the numbers who are showing up. There are lots of people who for whom this is they've moved on once they learned the facts. So three things I wanted to talk about. Um one is I really ask you not to do nothing. And I'm an English teacher by training. So I'm intentionally using a double negative. Do not do nothing. Um because what happens is um you know people are talking about this asis and um I totally understand that there's a loss there's a loss for this for people who have enjoyed the shortcut trail. Um but I also um what we're finding is people really aren't interested in the facts and there still is misinformation about the 20 ft in particular um in some of the commentary and in some of the and particularly in the documentation. There was no seeding of land. There was no you did not no one gave that 20 ft back that 293 feet* 2* 20. No one gave that back. It was not the cities to give back. It was originally owned and the in the 50s members of the city um government were thinking about it and began the process but never finished it. So it's always been private land. And so to hear people over and over can say that it's that it's it's giving this land. It was we it was a recording error that was finally corrected so that we know it's private land. And what's what's been most troubling is it's painfully apparent where where my land is because you're walking right through it, right through the driveway, right past my house. What hasn't been clear is the northern half where I know um Council Member Schroeder has seen it and I don't know if anyone else has seen it since the survey has been done. My heavens, it's it's almost three4s of the land of that shortcut goes on private property and people who knew that continue to walk on it. They I mean I've had to put up signs, ask people and people are just walking over someone else's yard with no respect um to to to those people. Um, so and what I have to tell you as you know this is it's I sit out on my front stoop now and and I don't wonder if someone's going to wander by. I am totally good with and we anyone who lives on in in a house with property knows there's a rhythm to the noises and the movement in in in the neighbors around you. But picture having someone, anyone, anyone at all, wander by your walk by your home all the way along your side um the side of your property or for the six people the six property owners now in question all along their backyards. So, if if the trail if you leave it as is or if you go for the pathway plan, it's going to move the trail further and further into four of the property owners space up close to patios, up close to where the children play, up close to backyards, and I am telling you, as someone who has had three months where they're the reduction, they're just a handful now who um continue to walk, including on my balm. Like, I didn't put up a angry sign. I put up BB balm and they walked over it. Like come on. I know it's I'm hitting my time. >> Approaching four minutes. >> I'm approaching four. Okay. So, let me just Thank you. Um I apologize. So, obviously I'm asking you to v vacate the land and respect that the comm there is also a community that developed around the eight property owners. We have been gentle. We have been kind. We have been thoughtful with the staff and with council members. And um we ask you to do what your job is, which is to also prioritize and make um make a decision that benefits the people who are impacted most, which I continue to argue are those eight property owners. Thank you for this extra time. Sorry. >> Well, thank you for your comments. >> Hello and welcome. >> Um mayor and council, thank you uh for the opportunity to speak about this. My name is Kevin Watson. I live a couple doors down from the north end of the trail. Um I'd like to ask the council to consider two options. One, a prescriptive easement over the current path uh that is on private property. Um it would maintain the public use of that path. Uh you can talk to your city attorney about what that process might look like. Or the city could help the neighbors clear a new path over the existing rightway. Uh a new dirt path could avoid trees. uh if those fences removed uh it sounds like this plan uh through the constellation uh I don't know what that means constellation plan uh has been considered over the years and envisioned maybe not recently um or by this council but it has it is there um you know I sent you an email with a lot of examples of dirt paths and connections throughout the northeast metro um one particular one that I wanted to highlight tonight was the Hel Drive. So if you go to the end of Hel Drive, which is up near Lake Aaso, there's a path that uh extends off the end of the culde-sac and then it crosses the railroad and it's a dirt path between the railroad and uh County Road C and it terminates at County Road C. Uh there's no ADA ramp. There's no crosswalk. Um it's very similar to uh uh this trail at the end of Aldine Drive. So, um, you know, there's rhetoric that this is a trail to nowhere. It just sort of terminates at Roselon. Uh, but it gets the people in the Mid Oaks neighborhood over to Brem Hall and Evergreen Park. It gets people in the Ridgewood and the Woodside neighborhood over to the Farmfields or the Rose Lawn Trail or the State Fair uh as well. Um so um you know similar to the heel trail it probably gets people over to uh Central Park or County Road Sea Trail. Um so it sounds like you've learned recently that this is has been identified as a connection. I encourage you to honor that uh constellation plan and uh help the neighborhood. It sounds like you have some volunteers that would help you install a dirt path. Uh me included uh through that rightway if those uh if those fences could be moved. So, thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. I appreciate everybody's uh comments this evening. Uh as I said, I think we'll um we would do a few more speakers and we did and I appreciate everybody coming forward to speak. Uh I don't think there's any question that we've we've heard from both sides this evening and we've certainly heard from uh folks uh that maybe didn't speak this evening at the at the prior meeting. So uh hopefully hopefully we have your understanding in that regard with respect to the public comment period. Um I would now say that we uh need to address a couple of questions that came up. There weren't too many from the the public. Um, I did want to note um as to as to and I don't know if we need to have staff answer this, but as to how could there be a fence on the property at the south end um within the the official rightaway. Uh I don't think anybody that is in especially in the public works world would be surprised to find out that there are uh improvements that abuing property owners have made on on public rightway uh including on the right of way that runs along every street in the community. um you know uh oftentimes people will uh put in retaining walls or put in fences or things like that that may or may not be done in conjunction with the city or officially sanctioned by the city in that regard. Uh and especially given the time frame that we're talking about going back years and years and years. Um and so I don't I I don't know that uh that we have an answer exactly as to why offense is there, but I don't know that anybody is terribly surprised that there may be a fence in in any of these types of locations. Um, so that was one of the questions. Uh, and then the other one, uh, if the city vacates right ofway and determines later on, uh, that it's needed for a public purpose again, um, and I may look to our attorney and or staff on this one, but I believe the city has to reacquire it essentially. And I'm not sure if we can just simply condemn property. We may have to actually pay a fair uh, market value for it at that point. But I would be uh, open to correction if need be. Uh that is my understanding, mayor. >> So once we've given up our right to it, the only way to get it is to buy it at that point. All right. I think those were the only questions at least on a technical uh nature that I had noted. Um just check with the council. Were there others that you had noted? All right. Um so the council is asked to consider uh the request the petition for the vacation of the right away that has been uh filed with the city by the adjacent property owners. Um and uh as was noted the actions could be to approve the vacation of the rightway. Uh we could certainly uh not approve the vacation of the rightway. Um, I would also note that it probably is the legitimate option if the city council feels there is more information that needs to be gained uh to table action uh to a future date um in order to do that. So, I don't want to rule that out as a possibility if that's where the council wishes to go. Um, I would just look to the council for some some maybe opening thoughts uh as to how we might proceed. Uh, council member Strong. Well, I did follow up with um the uh community development director Janice Gunllock in both 91 Mid Oaks and 1705 Roseland back to 2000 on the only two along that uh f that property that have um known fence permits. So if you look at 77 Mid Oaks and 93 Mid Oaks, their fence permits either were not um gone through the city or they preceded the 2000s where they had record of that information. So, just wanted to make sure as we look at the P the plan 77 does also um go into that area and rather substantially which probably contributes to why um there are continues to be people um walking on public um on private property at that end. Right. Other thoughts from council members? Uh, council member Gra. >> First of all, I'd like to apologize to all of you here. I think this has turned into a real problem and unfortunately the city is, in my opinion, the instigator of that problem. We did not know what we were getting into with this vacation. We've done many vacations vacations before and they were pretty straightforward. They were in the middle of of parking lots, various other things. And so we at least I was caught off guard. I shouldn't speak for all the council members, but I was caught off guard by this. It's been a real learning process for me uh to learn how much this path was used. I did walk on the path before we found out that the 20 ft on the westerly part was um >> so >> I'm >> no on the westerly part >> westerly part was was not recorded in in 1951 or whenever that document was produced. And so I I do know what you're all talking about as far as that goes. It is a connector path. And um for me what I would like to do is like let is there any way we can focus on what we agree on here? I'm hearing we agree on the trees are important. I'm hearing we agree we don't mind the path as long as it's not too intrusive perhaps or not going on public land. >> Private >> private land. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Um, so is there any way we can come to something more in that we agree on rather than focusing on the things we don't agree on? Um, and I guess that's just my comment for now and I'll listen to what else is spoken tonight. >> Other thoughts from council members uh who perhaps haven't spoken yet. Council member Schroeder. >> Uh, yes. You know, it's, you know, I see this neighborhood of all these people and that this the shortcut piece going through this area has divided this neighborhood is is just sad for me to watch. It's just, you know, to have something like this because it sounded like some of the relationships had been a long time and that some of these relationships got broken over this. So, you know, similar to council member Grath is, you know, it took me by surprise that it would got so contentious and that so many people got upset about this. Now I'm I you know in in the document from our um public's works director it talks about you know if the 30 foot easterly portion of the is densely wooded with uh numerous mature trees that would be affected by any pathway development. So, um I just for me to be to cut down trees um is a non-starter for me if those those big mature trees and I guess if I would that might be something to ask people is if it if to put a path through there meant cutting down the trees, would people feel differently about that? Would they be okay with that? And um I just and then the other piece I just want to make sure is if we did have a path through there, I'd be concerned on that Roseland side if if you know if if there's kids with bikes popping through there and they're ending up on Roseland, what can we do to that's a concern there is that safety issue of you know when it comes out because there's there's no sidewalk right there. And so I just want to make sure that we weren't causing um problems that way. But but the trees are are the one one piece that I wanted to um um make sure that um we don't end up doing this path by and and sacrificing the trees for it. So I think that that would be hard because you're right. I think um like you said um um council member Grath I think people agree that the trees are really important and especially when you look at some of the size of these trees some of them are 36 in and that would be a shame to lose some of that. So, I just that's one of the things I just want to make sure that we we are aware of that. Um, and I did walk it after the um um survey was done and it is heavily heavily wooded vegetation on where the um the new uh rightway or easement is there and and so there would have to be um definitely some cleaning out there and and I think there would be some trees affected by that. So again, I I think it's important that people see where that uh survey is to make sure what that area is that we're talking about. So just some comments on that. >> Council member Bower, >> thank you. I a lot of what council member Sharter stated as well. Um really sad to see what's happened with this neighborhood. I too had the uh ability to walk the path after the survey was done as well and was uh taken back by uh where the actual current path is and how much of it is actually on private property and what the uh density of the rightway area is and the amount of trees in that area is also taken back by the grade as well from the homeowners on Mid Oaks uh and concerned about what putting a halfway in there about having put a retaining walls in there as olved to be able to do what the city um to be able to do it safely. I too am quite concerned as well is if we put in a path through there um as we need to for proper you know a proper path uh one that matches the city plan city master pathway plan. Um concern about the traffic on there especially going out to Rosana as well. We were hearing earlier talking about kids going to this with school. I think there was additional costs and monies we should if we do it spend on putting in a crosswalk and other things which is also interesting because that bor is a additional city not just ours to figure out. So for that reason of preserving the trees seeing what's there right now um I'm really in favor of maintaining what is there and what is the beauty of that uh neighborhood. I'm really concerned about removing all those trees to make take care of this uh to produce something more than that. It's just a shortcut. >> Uh Council Member Grath, >> I want to be clear when I said I was concerned about the trees. I am not uh believing that all of those trees need to be cut down. This is being divided and things are being said here tonight that I don't think are accurate. And I think that a compromise can be made. And that was what I was talking about. I think that we do not have all the information. One of the people who spoke said we do we are learning information tonight. Even as we go forward here, we do not have all the information. This could be designated as a parkway woodland path and it could be a parkway area instead of an ADA one. And we I walked in Cotton Tail Park today and we have pathways exactly like that. It connects from Lake Josephine down to County Road C2. You can walk through there. It's not a uh concrete path. It's not a batuminous path or anything like that. It's not damaging the trees. In fact, it is a uniter for the neighborhood because when you walk through there, there are a couple signs that have a a QR code on them that say, "If you're interested in helping us remove invasive species, contact the friends of the park here." So, I think there's are opportunities for us to work together instead of being divisive here. That's what I'm talking about. And I don't think we have all the information yet. I'm hearing about removing trees. I'd like to know exactly what a forester says on that. I would like to know more about where the path would run. I would like to know more about whether the grade is as stated or not. I'm not an expert on those things. I do have a degree in landscape architecture, but I have not worked in that field. But I do know this land is worth value. I used to be an appraiser early in my career and when we had land that was added to properties, it's worth a certain amount of dollars per foot. So, I do understand why the people along that section would like to add that to their property. But I think we need to look at the greater good here. And the greater good is to keep connectivity to the neighborhood. And so that's why I would want to have more information before making this decision. Once we vacate the rightway, it's gone. There's no going back. that's over. >> In light of those comments, um I I do want to also note that I don't think anybody in the council necessarily um is trying to twist information or anything like that. So, I just want to be clear about that and I'm not suggesting that that's what you're saying, uh Council Member Grath, but uh um I do think we do need to have a solution. Um, so at the June 10th discussion, um, I had perhaps the the the convenience to to not support the motion to vacate at that point because it wasn't going to get the four votes. Um, I also didn't support, uh, the other motion at that time. Um, and it mainly was at that time because it didn't solve anything. It just left the status quo as it was and nobody was going to be happy. Uh, and that didn't seem to make sense. Um and so I was encouraged uh since then to learn more first of all. I think that was helpful to the process. Um, and I think we have in our system perhaps a way that can address um, a lot of the questions that people have, a lot of the concerns, um, and the ability to do something that isn't a, you know, 8 foot wide batuminous path that just, you know, clearcuts a swath through that property. And that is, as Council Member Grath alluded to, more of a trail park or something along those lines. Uh, and the benefit of that, there's a few benefits of doing something like that. one is that there's no question that our parks and recreation system and department has a tremendous process for planning parks and for working with neighborhoods to come up with what can work for as many people as possible. Um the other uh potential benefit is that I believe given things like park dedication funds and given things uh other factors that a process through a a park development approach um can move more quickly than a public works approach where this is a low priority on our parkway pathway master plan may not be built for 20 years. That's 20 years of no solution for anybody. Nobody's happy. If we want to go through the process of not vacating but hoping that we get a pathway or or something down the road, I think that that is not a great solution. I wasn't supportive of that at the last discussion. My suggestion to the council if there's willingness to do it would be to uh potent and I alluded to this earlier is potentially to table action on the right-of-way vacation request. As I understand it, we're not under any statutory time limits where we have to take action within 60 days or something like that on this type of request um to uh refer this matter to the parks and recreation commission for their consideration of whether this is something we want to pursue as perhaps a trail park. Um I can't say what the outcome of that process will be. Um the parks and recreation commission may come back and say this is not our priority. This is not something we want to do. there's X, Y, and Z reasons that we might not want to do this. And and but I think what that process does is it gets more voices that have some specific expertise into the discussion. Um, it provides an alternative approach that might be more like the cotton tail park pathway that isn't a batuminous or concrete uh is is maybe easier to work through and around trees uh and is maybe able to be done in a way that might not be too intrusive to the uh budding properties on either side or can be done mindful of that. Uh so that would be my proposal and I'm not going to make a motion to table at this point because I just wanted to put it out there. But that's sort of where I'm leaning after hearing all the discussion. Um, and I just just an additional comment. It was interesting to hear from a couple of the neighbors who actually bought the property to say, "Well, I haven't really noticed a lot of people using it." Uh, and it very well could be the fact that the users are fairly unobtrusive and they just aren't they don't get noticed. And that that may be a positive thing to to sort of build on. Uh, so I just wanted to put that out there. But with that, I thank Council Member Strong for patience. Uh, I did want to make some comments though before uh we can't see passers by as people using the path. Well, I've used the path for years. I'm sure many of you have never seen me on it, but I've been there. And um and I would expect that this year with this animosity and the uncertainty that it is more heavily wooded because we've had a great year for rain and not as many people probably walking it because they don't know what to do when they get to the south end and and there's nowhere to go. People are being respectful, but they don't know. Um, I'd say this was never the property of those adjoining the path. And that's really hard to hear as someone who values the path. I don't abut it. I don't live in that neighborhood. So, I'm not going to miss it the way others might. But I I I just think there it is really important. I that park land is so important and so valuable and this is a free space that the city owns that we have an opportunity to preserve. There was a comment made that there's everyone's here but nobody nobody they don't know. 7 to eight property owners, depending on how you count them, because two um one family or one group owns two homes, and 98 signed the petition um to make sure that this right of way was maintained. So it may I think the the crowd probably you know that shows that but it's really important that there's awareness because both packets so far have omitted the 98 signatures and they've been bench hand up both times that to me is why we are on this council and I looked this up because it was really important to me according to the executive director of the League of Minnesota Cities which is um what we participate in as a city um kind of so we have guidance as a city council and we work in a consortium. A city council is a group of people that live in a community and come together to make decisions on behalf of everyone that lives there. Obviously, we're not going to come to 100% agreement, but we can't just decide for five or six or eight people. We have to look for the common good. We have to look for where can we do the most good and where do we have the most effect? And so I would support res um exploring this. This has gone up to 2 a score of 23 that makes it second tied for second on that list. So it is not insignificant and if we can as a part find some um elevation toward it and find something different. But I do think it really behooves us today especially to decide what happens to 77 and 93 mid oaks in their fences that are in the right of way. Do they need to move those? Because in the meantime, the people in this room who love that space and who want to walk that space and obviously are quietly passing through and nobody notices, how do they do so without being disrespectful of the people in the area? How do they particular civic duty? And when that fence is clearly in the way, the front of it is now been removed, but the back of it is still there. And at least for the long for the short term, I think that it would need to be taken out. But also, if you look at that other park, the other 77 that starts out outside and then it seems like it just keeps going until it is over half the path. So, I think we can't just do nothing and forward it to p for the parks. We need to make a decision on what happens to those folks in the interim. Do they have to take their fence down because it is in the right of way or do we allow them to continue to go against the right of way while we have this decision? Right. Uh a couple of things just to clarify on the score for the pathway. It's actually it scored a 14 if I remember from the report which ranks it 23rd out of 25. >> Thank you. >> So it's you just had it flipped around. That's >> Thank you. Um and then um so uh wanted to hear from council members on the notion of referring it to the to the parks commission. And I guess just on the the the topic of what happens to it, so anything that's existing in right of way right now that is unused right of way while it is technically not supposed to be there. I'm not sure that the city is actively pursuing efforts to remove things like that unless there's a reason to do so. So my guess would be is that that would sort of remain that fence would remain or fences would remain while things penned. Um but we'd have to we'd have to you know figure out what needs to be done in terms of enforcement on that. I think the the reality of the situation is that certainly it is possible that that you know what is essentially an unofficial path may not be available in a short-term period um until decisions can be made as to how we might be able to do something in that right of way or actually install something in the right of way and then as part of that process certainly uh issues of fences and things like that can be can be worked through with the adjacent property owners. Uh, but I don't know that we have to decide tonight to remove a fence or order a fence removed necessarily. Uh, depending on what the council uh, feels. So, I'll open it up for some thoughts. Uh, council member Grath, >> a question. You said there's no timeline on a table tableabling the motion. Is that correct? >> Well, so councils can table always to a time certain or a date certain. Councils can uh table for purpose of certain things to happen which once they happen then it has to come back. Um, or you know, you can table indefinitely if you want to, but I think I think my thought is that we table this to allow the time for the parks and rec commission to weigh it. I think they probably got a meeting coming up this week or or they're usually close to the beginning or end of the month. So, I'm not sure they can do it real soon, but uh we I would say we'd give them the time and it may take multiple meetings to have discussions on it. Um, so I don't want to artificially, you know, shorten the process, but I know that their process is pretty expeditious. >> Question more about the petition timeline. >> No, it's it's u my question was yeah, that you answered most of my question. Then the other question would be is is at that point I would like to us there I have a bunch of questions I would like answered and I would like to give direction to the parks and recck commission on researching some of those things to give us the complete answer. So that's the only thing. So, >> okay. >> I I I would make the motion to table and I know there's no discussion on that. So, >> sure, before the motion gets seconded, I think it's reasonable to say uh it perhaps as part of the motion, what are the things we want the parks and rec commission to look at. We can summarize. We could also follow up with with more details afterwards. I'm not sure that the commission itself may be able to very quickly answer all of those questions necessarily, not knowing what they all are, but having some ideas. Uh but certainly I think the commission could take a to to could take probably a closer and better look than we could. Yeah, Mr. Trean. >> Sorry to interrupt the conversation. I just have a question for the city attorney with if if a tableling action is taken, the petition is still out there and a decision will need to be brought back one way or another. I just want to make sure everybody's on that same page, including the folks in the audience. If it goes to the park and rec commission, if that's where the motion goes, something needs to be done with this petition at some point. I just want verification from the city attorney on that. >> You are correct. >> So tableabling is just delaying taking an action. But there's no question you're absolutely right that an action would have to be taken. I think my point of view is we probably need some more information before taking that action. Council member Grath >> or we could take the action and they could repetition. >> That's always a possibility. But >> is there a timeline on that when they could come back with another petition? >> Council member Graph. The statute does not contain a specific deadline for when you need to have made your decision. >> But if we deny the the right of way vacation tonight, is there a time I may have to wait before they repetition us? >> Give me a minute. >> Sorry. >> Or or Yeah, that's a good question. >> I don't think so, but let me look. >> And my suggestion would not be to deny just because I'd like to keep >> some options out there. >> Okay. I just wanted to know all the options. >> No, I appreciate that. Other thoughts from council members? Council member Schroeder. >> Yeah. and and and I agree if we're going to get more information to me again I want to make sure what effect it would have on vegetation and trees that's a big one for me so I I definitely would want to make sure we have a very detailed understanding of what that would be and um also I believe some of those um there's other fences that are involved in this um now if you go if you walk where the survey is now It's not just the two ends, it's in the middle that there's some fencing too with um with yards. And so I'd like to also understand how many people uh fences are involved with all of this too. >> Sure. And I believe some of those fences appear to be appear to be on the property line or near the property line, so they're less potentially problematic. >> Um but yeah, fences and property lines are always an an issue that's out there in the world of property. >> But the survey did help a lot. I wanted to thank staff for doing that. That was very helpful for me to see the survey because that is one more piece of information we have that's that's giving us information to make a more informed decision and that's what I'd like to have more of. >> And and I would re again if anyone on the council who has not walked it since the survey, I would recommend they go do it and it really you can really see um it does make a drastic difference on that on that path. >> But I'm hearing people don't want us to do that. I was just going to say there probably wasn't a large number of people using it. >> I called one of the people that had the fence and asked permission to go in and then they gave me permission and then I walked it is what happened. >> Perfect. Okay. Council member Bower, >> I am a little bit concerned about passing this down to the parks commission. Not because of their not being able to, but just I guess going with what you're saying, we have to be very explicit about what we're asking them to do and to bring the work that we want them in staff to do to bring back to us. Um just we've been this is the third meeting on this, right? And it's quite the not a normal thing for a commission to be dealt, right? So I'm quite concerned about the pressure and whatnot they're going to face. So I think it's really important for us to be very incredibly explicit about what we're asking from them, what we expect to come back from them as well. And then one of the things I would like to know is, you know, really understand like what is this path going to look like if it's so decided? Does it make sense to have a 30- foot wide park in Roseville? And what are the costs that we're looking at as well? >> Yes. >> Right. And you're talking about using the park dedication funds, but still we need to know costs. Again, um you know, those fences are right at the end. That's because there's a big grade uh as well that goes from uh the homes on Mid Oak uh towards the homes to the west as well to understand what that looks like as well. >> Sure. >> So, I'd be curious to know, you know, council members Gra's uh questions that you would like to answer from the parks commission. >> Perhaps council member Gra can work on summarizing those a little bit or hitting the highlights. >> I think those are all valid, good questions. I would say about the safety issue for people coming out. When you walk on Cottontail Park, you can walk right out onto Josephine. Uh and it's there is no walkway along that side. You you would be coming out with a bike right out on there. So, I think those are legitimate questions, but we did talk with public works about making a line. So, those are some of the things that I think the part there's a lot in our discussion tonight that could be brought up to the uh to the parks and recck department >> uh to commission. And they do this. They this is what they do. So they're there to advise us as a a commission. So I think they're they're even more the experts than we are. I never sat on the parks commission. So I would really like the input of those those members, but I'd also like them to work and maybe this is putting more on them than I should to work with the members of the community in the neighborhood. So maybe there's something that can come together from the community that would would have input on this. And and I just think that's the better way to go. I I think it may not be part of the parks and reccomission process to consider the answers to our questions, but if the answer is yes, we want to look at doing this as a park, >> then they have a tremendous process, as we all know, for engaging neighbors and bringing everybody together around it. I mean, we, you know, the the Sunset Park is a tremendous example of that because that was a neighborhood that was very uh divided over the development that ended up going in that actually contributed most of the property for that park. So, uh I think I think and certainly you live closer than I do to that neighborhood, but I think that has helped >> bring people back together. >> Can I have one more indulgement? I need to state this because I do live in that neighborhood and we don't have the parks or the woodland park paths like they do in the rest of Roseville. So, I'm a little jealous of some of them like Reservoir Woods which some of the council members live close to. So, maybe you don't understand how important it is to keep small pieces of nature available to the public. And that's why I fought for Sunset Park and and there was a large there was a division in the com in the neighborhood and I live in that neighborhood directly. So, it was a process and I really admired the parks and recck department. Thank you to Matt Johnson and to his team for leading that and just using facts and thinking outside the box and being creative. It was very helpful. So, that's why I'm supporting that. >> If uh Mr. Johnson is willing to do this. I wonder if he might be able to just let us know if he feels like he's got enough guidance as to what the discussion might be or if there's things he wants us to clarify uh before if there's a motion to table since there's no discussion at that point. >> I just want to make sure that uh that we're not having our parks director sitting in the back of the room saying, "Oh my god, this is going to be terrible." Something like that. >> Thank you, mayor and council. No, I I am not not thinking that at all. Um what I'm really hearing is is is a better understanding of the feasibility of a potentially more creative solution than what has been brought forth previously. Um potentially utilizing cottontail as a model um with a careful attention being paid to preservation of vegetation and specifically um historic trees and significant trees and an eye to overall cost and viability. Did I get it right? >> Anything we're missing there? That's why he's got his job. >> Yeah. Well, there we go. All right. That sounds like we've got some good guidance. And certainly, if there's some nuance or some additional things that come up as part of the count the commission's discussion, assuming that's the direction we go, the commission has the ability to have those conversations and make recommend recommendations back to the council. Uh, one of which might be that, you know, ultimately no, this isn't the direction we want to go and that's that's a legitimate outcome of this process. >> Right. Council member Strong, >> might be good when you're both there. Um, you know, there's been several people mentioning this crosswalk and this is a county road. To my knowledge, this part is actually city, one of the rare cross. >> It's joint jurisdiction between us and Falcon Heights. >> Y Okay. So, we would um but it is a rather long stretch without a crosswalk between uh Fairview and Snelling. So, but we would work with Falcon Heights if we chose to move forward with that. I don't know. >> Yeah. The good news is uh Falcon Heights city engineer is a city employee. So, >> in other words, they contract with Roseville. Yes. Yes. Okay. >> We have a good relationship there. >> You have you have access. >> This is not a part-time gig that they're doing, right? Or, you know, a side gig. >> Yes. >> All right. Uh, thanks for all that information and certainly I think the commission could look at potential for or the need for a crossing or how that might be addressed to. I mean, there's there's certainly multiple ways to look at that. >> All right. Uh, council member, >> I would make a motion to table until we have further information from the parks and rec commission. All right. I was I was thinking I might have to second that one. Uh All right. Uh it's been moved by Council Member Grath, seconded by Council Member Straw, to refer this matter to the Parts Rec Commission uh as discussed and outlined in our previous discussion for recommendation back to the city council uh prior to the council's final consideration of the right-of-way vacation petition which still pends during the tableabling. With that, no discussion on a motion to table. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. >> Opposed? name. >> That motion passes 4 to one with council member Bower in opposition if I captured that correctly. >> All right. Uh thank you everyone. Appreciate everybody's involvement and and patience. Uh especially for those who are here about county road C. Uh but stay tuned for more on this particular item. Uh council, we are at about quarter after 8 and we normally take a break at about 8. So why don't we use this as a convenient opportunity for about a fivem minute break. Thank you. I think this is worse. >> We're back from a short break here. Uh ready to continue with our business items this evening. Uh we're halfway through. Uh we're on item 7D now, which is to receive an update on the County Road C proposed project uh for uh next year, I believe, or thereabouts. Uh and a specific discussion on the crossings related to Acorn Park. Uh and I'll turn it over to our uh city engineer and assistant public works director, Jennifer Lowry, to introduce this item for the council and perhaps make other introductions as part of the process. >> Thank you, mayor, council members. Um, so we have a couple guests here today that'll come and answer some more questions. We have, um, we'll do a quick introduction, then I'm going to ask John Mazatella to come up. He's the deputy director of public works for the county for project delivery. He'll give a little more of an overview of the project as a whole and some schedule updates. Um, then we'll have Luis Flores come up who is the county traffic engineer. We also have Joey Lungquist here. You guys all moved. Joey Lungquist um who is the project manager for the project. Um on this image you'll just see the existing crossing at K Road C and Gier and then um what the what a median protected crossing um looks like. This one's on Highway 8 near Sand Castle Park. Um so just as a quick uh kind of recap, the first meeting of the year, January 6, um a petition was received from the neighborhood council for um asking to not build the trail on the north side with the project. Um, council voted to support the petition and not support trail construction, but still keep the trail in the master plan and suggested a protected crossing on the east leg of Matilda. Um, and so right now there's a crossing on the west leg at Fington and on the west leg of Gueltier. So, um, we took that information back to the project team. Um, we have staff from uh public works and we've also met with Matt Bower um I mean sorry I saw it Matt Johnson >> um to talk through those impacts to the park and the crossing um concerns and stuff. So we'll hand this off um to the county. Like I said, they'll give an update and then Luis will give more of a detailed breakdown of kind of what the project team looked at as far as taking that feedback and guidance from the council with the removal of the trail in the north, how that how that relates to their um uh crosswalk guidelines and what staff is proposing as options as a result. And then just real quick to add, I know we had the public comment on the uh potential uh speed limit change or or the um school zone crossing. So that is certainly something that the county can speak to. Um there's a process for that and certainly that potentially could be uh part of this project, but Luis can uh speak to that when when that he comes up. So >> yeah, and I note that there was a speed zone added at Parkview Center School within the last year or so that hadn't been there before. So it's probably fresh similar process. Correct. >> Folks, right? So, we'll turn it over to the county. >> Right. >> Hello and welcome. >> Good evening. Good evening, Mayor, members of the council. >> Good evening. >> I'm John Mazatello, deputy director of public works for Ramsey County. This is Luis Flores. He is our traffic engineer. and Jennifer and Jesse had asked that we come give a little overview of the project and then discuss some details about crosswalk modifications like she mentioned. So, you're pretty familiar with this project. I'm assuming it's been going on for a couple years now. Um, it's a mill overlay, a pavement replacement project. It's a 4 to three lane conversion. We have done a number of these throughout the county and found vast increases in vehicular safety as well as pedestrian and bicycle safety as well as a little bit of speed reduction um with these four to three lane conversion projects. Rehabilitating the pavement. We're going to add and enhance any ADA pedestrian facilities that are in the area. Thank you for passing your proclamation earlier this evening honoring the anniversary of adoption of the Americans with Disabilities Act. We look at this with every project we do. Standards change. Um requirements under the ADA change periodically. We make sure everything we're doing within our projects is compliant with current ADA guidelines. Uh we're also modifying signals at Rice and Lexington, the two ends, the west end and near the east end of our project. Uh we're studying an intersection modification at Victoria. We have received a number of uh concerns from residents in that area about intersection safety. So, we're studying how to make that intersection uh more safe and have better flow through it. And then also the bridge over BNSF on the west side of Victoria is scheduled for replacement that is being designed in conjunction with the pavement project. Going to talk a little bit more about that in just a minute. So, where we've been and where we're going, the project started in 2023. It's preliminary design work, alternatives, analysis, carried us into 2024. We held our first open house in May of 24, received public comment. That was right here at city hall. Open house number two was in October of 2024. Um, and that was held at the Oval. We do have another open house tenatively scheduled for August 28th this year to present these newly adjusted alternatives for crosswalks because when we make a change like this, we do want to bring it back to the public so we're not just going into our final design having made a modification public is not aware of. So we are tenatively scheduled for August 28th. That could shift a little bit depending on comments received this evening or how our design proceeds. We will have final design done by the end of 2025. Get all of our permits c and bring the cooperative agreement to the city ready to bid this project in early 2026 for construction. The bridge is planned right now to go in conjunction with county road C. We do have a couple issues we still have to work out with the railroad. If that should bleed into a point where we can't bid the projects together, the bridge would go in 27, the road would go in 26. But we are still planning on doing both in a tighter time frame. With that, um, can this slide over? >> I think you need to potentially switch. There you go. Luis is going to talk about some of the crosswalk modifications and then we can take questions from the council. >> Hi uh mayor and council members. Thank you u for letting me speak here today. Uh again, Lucas, traffic engineer for Ramsey County. Uh if you look at the screen, uh the two different options that are offered there. Uh they show the what are called the pedestrian islands. Uh just to give a little bit of history as to um those facilities and just pedestrian islands in general. Uh they allow for uh a pedestrian to cross in two stages as opposed to one. So the reduction itself alone going from four to three lanes is already an improvement for the pedestrian that's crossing. They're crossing a shorter distance. If they could cross uh while looking one direction first, making it to the center, looking to the other, they could cross more safely. Um I read I spent the day uh looking through some of the feedback that was received in January 6th uh as part of the past meeting. Uh so some of the different uh options that were offered but were to mark not put any of these islands to mark all seven consecutive intersections uh with pedestrian cross. And I just I can't imagine that being something that I would support as a traffic engineer and somebody with the interest of safety u in the community. I'll also add that uh with the benefit of before and after data. Uh I haven't been at the county now for over 5 years. Uh I've looked at what these uh 43 lane conversions looked at looked like before and afterwards from a safety standpoint. Uh crashes of all types as John Natella said uh were reduced uh and this is internal numbers to us to Ramsey County. All crashes are reduced by uh about 40%. Uh pedestrian crashes I looked at six different corridors where this was applied. uh they're reduced by 28%. Uh there is one of these six corridors is Maryland which includes the intersection of Arcade which had a huge bump in crashes, pedestrian crashes in 2021. Uh this is related to number of factors. If you take that out that one of the six segments then that 28% goes to 68% reduction in pedestrian crashes. And so I don't have anything planned other than just to speak to my profession, speak to why decisions are made. Um to the point about ADA, uh the we would not put a crossing where there isn't a a receiving ramp for either direction. Uh I actually drove the corridor before coming here and I noticed that the existing ones at Ferington, I forgot what the other one is, but they essentially lead to a driveway and then the other one leads onto a curb. And so I'm fortunate enough to have my feet my sight. Uh but I can only imagine what uh somebody without those capabilities would have to go through if we were to put down the same crossings that were there before. So uh again I don't have anything prepared. I've looked at this. I've uh critiqued it. Um so uh that was one of the options. Go ahead. >> I'll go the second option. >> Sure. That this one shows two. That one shows one. And at the end of the day, uh the goal here is to get people from a ramp to a median to another ramp and then from where they're coming to their destination in the safest way possible. And that's uh that's the reasoning as to why we're doing this. I'll also add that as part of the ones we've implemented recently along Dale Street, uh we've gotten nothing but positive comments from bicyclists. And that's a rarity because we don't hear we hear more the negative than the positive. Uh but people have reached out through our public public works director and he forwards me these uh emails and says hey bicyclists are loving this. Uh so other than that I'm I'm not sure uh what else to uh to respond to here just to introduce myself >> on the first option we are showing a trail between beltier and Matilda that is to facilitate that midblock crossing with the adequate ADA compliance with it. there would be no other trail between Western and Rice. So that trail only exists to facilitate a crosswalk. And then on the second option, there is no trail at all between Western and Rice with the one crosswalk going off of Fington. So just to be clear, those are two different options we're considering and we wanted to get comments from the city council on those options. >> Thank you, John. And with with that, we would entertain questions. >> Okay. >> And we also have our project manager, Jolie Lungquist, is in the audience. If there are other technical questions, >> questions that you two can't answer. She she's the the expert that can field those. Right. >> I'm the deputy director. I'm at the policy level. I have great engineers and project managers that dive into the details for me. >> Got it. Um I'm going to start the questions because I this is a particular point that was interest of interest to me in looking at these options. Um if at the galtier the eastern crossing if we didn't have the island in the middle but we provided better landing places at both ends on you know on the on the curbs on either side with proper ADA compliance and alignment. Um does that either meet the county's policy for crosswalks or get closer to meeting it even though you wouldn't have the the the island in the middle for that ability to look the other way? >> Can I click Can I ask a question about your question? Sure. >> Are you talking about on the east side of Galtier or where the on the west side existing west the current west uh side is if if it was more directly aligned north and south instead of sort of angled first of all and then at the north side and then at the south side as well if there was a good you know per you know what am I trying to say ADA compliant landing with a ramp and a place for people to end up and perhaps connection to the pathway that's there on the south side um and maybe a little short segment of pathway way to get to Galtier on the north side. Would that be something that would be uh passable by county engineering standards? >> So, I'll first say that the initial design with the two crossings was based on community input. Uh and community input, you know, obviously doesn't or did not choose Galier as as one of the options. >> But to answer your question, Mayor uh Mayor Row, >> um more than likely that would, but I would have to look at the crash data at this location. I have to look at uh what type of movements traffic I don't data that I don't have in front of me. So, but to answer your question to for the sake of this conversation if there's landings on both ends um and receiving ramps rather and uh you uh the skew of the crosswalk I think that's what you're referring to aligning it more parallel or perpendicular >> uh more than likely it would be met but I would have to review what the data says. >> Okay. So, it could meet >> it could yes perfect. >> That's a that's an answer that I can deal with >> to to to kind of restate that non-engineer speak. Mhm. >> Are you asking sort of a for a mirror image of what we're doing at Fington? >> Uh except for the center islandep >> because you have the left turn action that you need to preserve at Galtier. I mean you could always eliminate it but the people in Gautier might not like that. >> Right. >> But essentially that same thing a little piece of trail connection and then a north side. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> And to my point earlier the 4 to three lane conversion alone already is making it better for pedestrians but it's not as ideal as a pedestrian island is. >> Got it. Thank you. Thanks to the council for letting me go first. Uh questions from the council or feedback. Council member Strong, >> I don't recall that we talked about this before, but someone brought up North Heights Christian Academy earlier this evening and still here. So, um in looking at that, that's actually to the east. It's Gier Mar and Woodbridge and then the school. I know that we've done other projects in Roseville where we looked at uh trail segments and such to connect schools um specifically I know we were working on looking at uh trail segments between like Edy Williams up to um Codilia's along Victoria things like that you know without if we're directing folks to that north side then there's nowhere for them to go are there any other trail segments anywhere along Nothing on the north to my knowledge that would guide students to that to that school there. >> Not to my knowledge. >> Okay. And is there a pretty robust um crosswalk? It looks another angled for some reason up at Rice Street. It is kind of a weird intersection, I guess. Um that would safely cross students um from the south side over to the north side. I don't know what the walking population is of a school. It's probably a large transportation um student body um by choice, but just wondering as far as you know how if there's a way to make sure that there's a safe passage >> um that that sidewalk crossing at the school is going away. We've been talking with them. >> Okay. >> They're going to take away that sidewalk that goes to the corner. >> Mayor, members of the council, this is Joey Lungquist, our project manager from Ramsey County. >> And and you're talking about on the north side of of the north side of C at the corner at Rice at Rice. Yeah, at the corner. >> But the pathway along Rice Street continues to >> they have their own sidewalk. >> Right. >> It's it's back from the road. >> Ah, okay. Okay. >> But the the the main crossing for people getting to that school site is sort of on the south side of C, get to Rice Street, and then cross over, if I understand, uh, from that the south direction probably. Yeah, I'm I'm I I don't think there's a very good sidewalk to to walk to the school. >> Okay. >> They're taking out the piece to the corner. Um and mostly it's you have to drive to their parking lot and walk walk on their sidewalk. >> I was trying to remember. I thought there was a pathway on the west side of Rice Street, but I'm not sure if it goes all the way down to see for sure. >> No. >> Okay, got it. >> Here. >> Oh, a new computer. Ah, okay. Got it. Appreciate that. >> So, there's no public pathway on the west side of of Rice Street. >> Not in that section. >> On the north side. >> Okay. >> Not on the north side of County Road C. That is actually programmed for the future. >> A north south pathway of any kind on the west side of Rice Street right now. >> No, >> in that area. >> No. >> Okay. That's I knew we There was a segment that was put in, but it must be farther north. There's one up to C, I believe, but it stops at C. >> Real quick, Mayor Council, yeah, the the only gap on Rice Street on the west side is between C and C2. >> There's a pathway the rest of the distance. >> Got it. Okay. >> We did the pathway on C2 to the north side >> 5 years ago, >> right? Yep. Okay. And we do have that trail gap programmed for a future project in the tip that's going to come in a few more years. >> Got it. Okay. That helps to clarify that. Thank you. >> Pull up a map. >> That's what we were doing here, too. Okay. Uh, other questions from the council or feedback? >> Council member Schroeder. >> So, um, follow up a little bit what the mayor was talking about that centerpiece. Does that interfere with plowing when we have those there? >> Well, they're county roads, so it's the county's problem. >> No, no, that's uh when we uh look at these projects, we consult our internal maintenance as well as city. I I would say working deputy director to deputy director, no significant interference. >> Anytime you put something in the road like that, there is interference, but it's it's something our POW drivers deal with multiple times all over our network. It's not that big of an issue. >> And then the other question is, have you loo you said you looked at the crash data on here to because you're talking about percentages of how things were getting reduced. Does that apply to this actual street or is that just in general? No, it was I was looking at locations where this has been done in the county. Um, so >> but but you don't have the crash data. >> I do. I'm not in my head, but So, >> but that's what I mean. You don't have it here right now? >> No. Uh, it's on my computer. I could pull it up if I need to. But I will say one additional piece of this project is that I put together the the federal funding application for this project. And so, in order for federal funding to be received, there has to be some sort of a crash condition or as we all know how funding works. And so, there obviously is a crash condition along this corridor. That's that's why I was trying to get to the detail of that so we understood >> that piece of >> I will gladly share with with the council. >> Thank you mayor. Yeah, >> council member McGrath. >> So if I'm reading this right, this slows traffic to a degree perhaps. Is that your experience with other projects? >> Uh correct. >> Yes. >> Along with the narrowing sorry along with the narrowing of the road as well. >> Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. And then it makes us more compliant with ADA in a different way. And I do remember the last time we had a hearing. I think if I remember correctly, we did have one person who said they helped someone in a wheelchair and they said it is difficult to get all the way across without a a spot in the middle to stop. So that's just one person, but >> that's been our experience in dealing with crosswalks and ADA compliance is whether it's somebody on a motorized scooter or wheelchair or someone with a stroller, that additional time to get across multiple lanes of traffic, the center island really does provide a refuge. >> Thank you. >> For for stopping an arresting spot. somebody with a seeing disability um would also have the they're called raised domes and and all sorts of treatments to kind of guide you as you're making your way onto the road, off the road, onto the road again, and off the road again. >> So, the detectable uh surface is what it's called. >> Right. So, with this project, as you noted, the next steps include the open house in August. Should be probably the primary opportunity for members of the public to weigh in on the on these design options. um um in addition to what you've you've heard uh this evening from the council. Um so I I'm wondering if it makes sense to have public comment at this time or um I mean we can certainly open it up. I don't know that we've got 20 people who are here for this necessarily either, but I do want to provide the opportunity for public comment. Uh so maybe if we can have you folks have a seat off away from the table for a moment, >> we'll uh open it up for public comment. um >> maybe not foregoing the opportunity for uh feedback at the open house as well. >> Thank you. >> And then would you like us to come back up and address any questions or would you like us to wait those for the >> prepared to do that if you need to? Yeah, >> sure. >> Mayor, I'll do my best to stay within the time limits. I will do my best to be gentle and enforcement. >> Thank you. appreciate that part. I might go over just a hair over three three minutes, but I'll try to do my best. My name is Greg Schrader. Uh I live at 2646 Matilda Street and I am an ex- council member and a retired civil engineer. Uh with that in mind, uh what I recall at the time that you guys moved forward with this project, uh to uh uh represent the residents uh that petitioned you to eliminate this project that we had talked about some passive crossings uh at Fington where we basically put uh some ADA ped ramps or something like that, not a concrete island in the middle. It was basically uh modifying those intersections with some 88 crossings so that people can continue to cross. Um, I guess I'm really at a loss of why we're even considering this one. If does someone tell me how do how do you can we put up uh number one? >> I can one can do it. >> There we go. >> There we go. It's up. It is up there. >> Um, this is this is this is one crossing. Well, first off, it's next to my house, so it's very personal to me and my family. Um, nobody's going to use this crossing. You can build it all you want, but nobody's going to use it. Nobody's going to walk from Matilda back towards the east, cross at a midblock crossing, and then turn around and go back west to get into the park. They're going to continue to cross at the intersection as they've done in the past. And it's they all the there's always an opening. I cross that road so many times in a day. There's always an opening in traffic to cross. There's It just happens to be that way. Um so I I guess I'm not even sure why we're even considering this. When you gave forward to the county a recommendation to eliminate these things and they're coming back uh to us uh with with something. So does that mean the county doesn't care about what the city says? uh they they don't care about what you're what you're thinking about or or what you're trying to do. They're not listening to the residents who signed a petition to eliminate these things. Uh they're both city of res Roseville and city and county residents. So I I am I'm at a loss. Totally at it. Um the other thing, one last there's two little things I want to add. Um, the one crossing here, the midblock crossing to Matilda Street, which I know is never going to be used, is I think a personal attack against me because I did a petition to stop this project, to stop these crossings. And I think that, uh, it's definitely a personal attack against me for organizing these things. Um, and I think there are solutions for crossings. They can be ADA uh landings that can be constructed as part of the curbing and stuff that they put there to make such crossings go. Everybody in the petition signed that signed the petition said they're just going to continue to cross the way they are. They're not going to do these enhancements and to put a trail in one small section. Who's going to who's going to keep that trail open during wintertime? Who's going to plow that one section? the countyy's going to come in and waste money to come over here and do that and putting a concrete island in the middle as a civil engineer, as a public works director for other cities. My crew would be so mad at me for putting a concrete barrier in the middle of a road that they have to plow. Uh they're just not going to do it. So, um and one final thing I want to add and and I hope I'm but I'm probably at four minutes. >> You're three and a half. So, >> I was I was close. >> I'll get I'll I'll stop real quick. You have a chance right now to improve the intersection at Gier with this project. It's if you would move your entrance to Acorn Park over so that it better align. You provide better safety for pedestrians and this is your opportunity to do that. Um why why not capture it if you can? It's just something to think about. And thank you for your time. And I want to say that everybody is Merry Christmas. It's in July and >> this week. It's this week and I've been at senior residence promoting it and I wish you all the very best. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Hello and welcome. >> All right, Jason. Sorry, 2721 Fairington Street. I spoke at the last meeting where we would discuss this issue and I would agree with Mr. Schroeder. This was not this secondary proposal is not exactly what we asked for or what everybody agreed upon. We wanted crosswalks at the intersections. Speaking to Mr. Gra's notation, yes, we have people using wheelchairs crossing at Fington into the parking lot right now. Those smooth gradual inclines into the park is what makes it accessible to people. What I think we have right now with this proposal is somebody had a PowerPoint idea and an application problem because they didn't know how to specify something on a federal application. I'm not saying that that's not a real concern, but that's not what we want and that's not what we're how we're going to use those streets. To Mr. Shrader's concern about maintenance, that is an ongoing expense to clear that sidewalk. And lastly, just keep it simple. That's what we talked about last time, keeping it simple. We don't need islands in the middle. We You're already going to lose one lane. Admittedly, by all of your designs, because you're going from four lanes to three. So, you're taking an existing crossing where handicapped people are able to make it across the street. You're going to shorten the time already by losing a lane. You don't need to have the island and you don't need to have this additional sidewalk that c that cuts into the property line and extends the rightway because you had a rightaway definition issue in the first place. So, please reconsider this and go back to what we had asked for before. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Hello and welcome. >> Good evening. My name is Ron Coner. Uh, I also am a retired civil engineer. I I guess there's a lot of us around. Uh, I'm just off of the map here. I'm on Marian Street, uh, up on the far end on County Road C2. Have lived there for 55 years. So, I've got a pretty fair idea of what goes on in this area. Uh, that center island is a horrendously bad idea. where the traffic comes through walking traffic. Uh I see we remove the crosswalk there on the far uh May I get up and point at that. >> The people at home won't be able to see what you're pointing at anyway. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> We'll we'll try our best to understand and maybe describe it for folks. I >> if we look to the far uh right of the slide u uh we see there's a remove crosswalk markings there >> at the very edge of the picture. you're pointing to it, right? >> East side of or west side of Belt here. Okay. >> Uh that's that's the walking AC or the crosswalk that gets used most of the time right now because people are either going to the parking lot that you can see uh just to the south here. You see some cars parked there. That's the parking for the uh Frisbee Golf. And also for the directly adjacent to the west, it says Acorn Park. That's a tennis court, basketball court. So, you have a lot of kids going into that area without vehicles because they're going to play basketball. They're going to play tennis and that sort of thing. Uh the cars typically tend to belong to the people playing frisbee golf up, which is farther to the south of where this is. Uh so if you put a center island in the middle like this uh and walk across either from Acorn Park, the the tennis courts and the and the basketball courts or the parking lot, where are you going to be when you get to the north side of the road? You're going to be in somebody's hedge or you're going to be in somebody's backyard adjacent to their fence that that divides the backyards in that area. You don't want to be on that side of the the north side of the road. You want to end up as we had on the other slide. Get rid of that. And you can do your c your walking on the south side of sea because that's where your parking lot is. That's where your your uh uh ballparks and stuff are. Uh to put one over to on the north side of see takes you to someplace where there is nothing. You're going to have to either walk to the east or walk to the west to get to where you've probably parked a car maybe if you're watching baseball on Gier or Matilda. So, let's think about where where the traffic moves with the people in this area before we rush off and start doing this just for traffic because there's a lot of people move across that uh crosswalk that's been removed. It's relatively well marked. Uh, at times there's a there's a stansion. >> I'm I'm gonna have to ask you to stop here. >> At times there's a stansion there. Sometimes it's gone. Okay. >> But please let's give some thought to where the people are moving in this, not just the automobiles. >> Right. Thank you. >> Great. Hello and welcome. >> Hi, I'm Mark Connley. My driveway is the first one east of the Acorn Park driveway, 240 Connory Road C. I've been there for 50 years. Um, I generally agree with all the gentlemen ahead of me. People cross at the streets, they're not going to go to the middle of the block to cross. Um, also, I'm a little concerned about stopping to go in my driveway and having someone hit the back of my car. It's already happened. Um, and now if they don't have a way to go around me, I'm worried about that. Uh, one other comment is early on there was a document that said there were specifications for traffic volume, uh, a max and a min, I believe a min, and I was wondering what what the traffic survey was for those, uh, if it was within the specifications. Right. >> Thank you. Okay. Hello, I'm back. My name is Suzanne Viatas. Uh my husband and I have been living at 186 West County Road C for the past about 25 years. Our children are grown and gone, but now we have grandchildren. We also have nextdoor neighbors who have small children. Uh I walk my dogs all the time, and these are crosswalks that I use all the time. And I also walk down by going down Dale where they have Harriet Alexander Nature Center. They put up the flashing lights at the crosswalks. I find that the people respond much better to the flashing lights. Motorists I I as a motorist too um use those flashing lights. Farther down as you go into Little Canada by St. John's Church, they have the flashing lights. those catch people's attention and you have you have the ADA ability you have um to get on and off to the sidewalks without having that center and I just think those center thing people don't even with the stansions with in the middle oh I've had people not not stop you know even though the stansion is in the middle it's low if people sees flashing lights I think they have a better tendency to stop. I'd rather not have those center islands there because I I I have a mother-in-law who lives over in on the east side of St. Paul and we we've gone through the Maryland project and it's they're still it's it's insane there. People use that middle lane to drive through. But I still but for for me it's the crosswalks. I walk my dogs all the time. We go all over that area and I would just prefer to have not have those center things and especially in the middle of a block. I'd rather have it at an intersection with the flashing lights. I think they catch people's attention much better. Much better. And I really would like people to um and this is something too, pedestrians, we need to be when we're we're acting as a pedestrian, we need to be visible. So to I have a vest that I wear at night or lights or something. So I I just think that the flashing lights just are a much better solution and definitely at an intersection and not in the middle of the block. >> Great. And I just I I'd like to see a crosswalk painted at Woodbridge. >> Right. Thank you. >> Is there anyone else uh from the public who wishes to speak? >> Right. We'll go ahead and close the public comment at this point then. Uh and certainly the council is not taking action. This was for information purposes, but certainly uh the representatives from Ramsey County have some additional information to feed into the process. Um I don't know if there's anything else from the council's perspective uh that we want to relate. Um you know I think that to the extent we we can look at that uh the the crossing on the west side of Galier and do some alignment and maybe do something a little less intrusive to the north side there. Uh probably would be preferable from my perspective anyway. Council member Schroeder, >> I would agree with that. And I would also all the people that were here tonight, make sure you go to the open house, too, to make sure that um I'm I'm hoping that people from Ramsey County heard everything that was said, but please go to the open house as well. >> I forgot to say, sorry. >> No, that's all right. All right. Other thoughts from council members? Council member Strong? >> I don't know for sure. I have not evaluated this area um in a while, but as I look at that request to move the driveway to um from Acorn Park to line it with Gulier, that brings it pretty close to the edge of the park property and looks like it would eliminate a path and possibly some trees. So, there's probably same issue, different neighborhood. So um I would want to make sure that if we are cons making such a consideration to move a pathway or to move a entrance that we are um keeping in mind those trees and pathways that are already there. >> And that was a suggestion in the comments that's not necessarily part of the plan at this point. Uh in fact I don't think it is part of the plan at this point. Um just to be clear about that. All right. Uh, I appreciate the folks from Ramsey County being here this evening and and providing the the information. Um, I did just want to look at I don't believe the representatives of Ramsey County have any uh animous towards any of the people that were uh involved in any of the prior process. Uh I I I believe that they are uh working from the point of view of engineering and design standards and what is appropriate for the situation. And I do also want to note um you know it's a it kind of goes contrary to the how I voted on this earlier this year, but um sometimes you don't know that nobody will use something until it's there for people to use. And I think we do want to make sure that we're conscious of providing a facility for people that may not even live there today. Uh that may require uh the compliant facilities. Um, it doesn't necessarily mean that we want to plop islands everywhere necessarily, but I think we want to be thoughtful about it. And I I I I don't, you know, we don't not put pathways or sidewalks in because people end up near other people's properties. It happens all the time. In fact, in communities like St. Paul and Minneapolis, there's sidewalks on almost every street that are right in front of everybody's house. There's people walking in front of your house all the time. So, that's not necessarily what enters into it so much for me. It is definitely though the the notion of the access and and once again the complication of the design and um trying to be as was noted simpler from my perspective. So anything else from council members? We look forward to the open house again on the >> 28th of August. Right. I was going to say the 13th. That would have been the wrong day. >> Tenative date, but we'll more information will be available and I believe there is a county website for this project that people can sign up for email updates and things like that. So, um, Council Member Strong, >> I just wanted to add that, uh, it was noted when I looked at the council packet that in page 164 for item 8A, it indicates that I voted in support of the decisions that were made on that day. And that is incorrect. Um, the count u the mayor affirmed my notes which indicated that I had voted no on that particular provision um, having to do with this project. And so I've asked for that to be amended. It's my certainly my heir and not find not catching it and noting it before, but I just want to make sure for this discussion this evening as well that um the decisions there were not a unanimous there was some um consternation at that time about the about this whole process. So just wanted to make sure that was added to the discussion. >> Right. And the minutes are are already corrected perhaps. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Very good. All right. Uh that concludes this item and thank you to the representatives of Ramsey County. Look forward, as I said, to the the open house whenever it might be. Um but it will happen. All right. Uh now we have oh my gosh, a request for vacation of uh of an easement. Um we've been assured that this is supposedly a lot less controversial. So we'll we'll go on that basis. Uh, and I will turn it over to our public works director, uh, Jesse Fryhammer to introduce this item, which is item 7E, considering the vacation of some easements on what's known as the pick property in Roseville. >> Uh, thank you, mayor and council. Actually, just before I recognize you, if I could ask folks to take their conversations away from the council chambers and actually away from the council chamber doors. Yeah, >> they can. >> Yeah, we can't and we can't close the door. It's a public meeting. >> All right, Mr. Mr. Fryham. >> Uh thank you, mayor and councel. Yeah, so on June 9th, uh 2025, we did receive a valid petition from the property owner of the pick parcel. Um so previously there was two sewer easements over this parcel. They were the the actual sewer itself was abandoned when the city constructed Twin Lakes Phase One, which is kind of over by Walmart. Um so there is no longer a city need for these sewer easements. So staff supports the vacations. Um, as council was aware last week, uh, the developer met with the EDA to to discuss a potential project and that's why the petition's coming at this point and why it wasn't, uh, maybe done years ago. So, with that, uh, we would request that council action is open a public hearing and consider adopting the attached resolution approving the vacation of the sewer easements on the pick parcels. Uh, and only a three-fifth votes required because it is a petitioned. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Fraham. And we put it up on the screen so that people know what it was. I saw it out there. Yep. And these are utility easements. Uh >> uh specific sewer ements. >> Sewer easements. Right. Got it. Okay. Mr. Trejan, I believe you have something to say at this point. >> Something brief. Published and legal mail notices have been provided for this public hearing. Legal notices appeared in the city's legal newspaper, the Pioneer Press on July 2nd, 2025 and July 9th, 2025. Mail notices were sent on July 9th, 2025. Affidavit of publishing and mailing are available in the office of the city engineer. All >> right. Thank you, Mr. Trean. Uh this is a public hearing. First of all, we'll just uh check if there are any questions from council members on the proposed easement uh vacations in this case. Doesn't appear to be the case. Excuse me. I will open it up then for public comment. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak to this proposed uh right-of-way e right of way uh utility easement vacation as it's requested here? Sorry, >> does not appear to be the case. We'll go ahead and close the public hearing then and move to council consideration. We do have the request before us. I believe there is a resolution as an attachment in the packet for that purpose. >> Could I make a motion, mayor? >> You may. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Motion's made. >> We're so efficient. The motion is made by council member Grath, seconded by council member Strawn to adopt the resolution, which is the attachment uh in the packet for the purpose of vacating the the utility easements as outlined. Discussion on that motion. As the maker of the motion, Council Member Gra, >> this is the kind of vacations we like to bring to us. >> They're fun vacations. >> That's all I'll say. >> Council member Stran is the second of the motion. >> Any other discussion on the motion? All right. Hearing none. Uh once again, this is a petitioned request, so there is only a simple majority required. All those in favor of adopting the resolution vacating that uh those easements as outlined signify by saying I. I opposed. >> That passes unanimously meeting the simple majority requirement. >> All right. Uh thank you for that, Mr. Fryhammer. Uh next on our agenda, we do have uh this is a public works night. We have our public works, environment, transportation commission here for a joint meeting with the council. Uh we always look forward to these discussions. So, I'll uh look forward to the folks from the commission coming up and having a seat at the table. So, we've got uh >> Allison on my right. >> That's you >> chair in the middle and Mr. Hot on my left. >> So, I shouldn't have used my >> stage right here or stage left. >> The world revolves around me. So, I of course use my directions. Sorry about that. >> All right. Well, welcome. Thank you for being here. Uh we look forward to the conversation. I'll turn it right over to Chair Fisc to uh get things moving. >> All right. Thank you, Mayor, Council Members. Uh happy to be here. Happy to talk to you again. So, I'm Brian Fisk, chair of the commission, and with me is >> I'm Allison Lango, >> and Ed Hunter. Uh so in the packet we had our list of topics that we had for you over the past year and uh great conversations. Happy to say we had a full team for most of it and two student members as well which was awesome to have that participation. Uh so I'm going to designate us as the fun commission because we have that. So sure >> we're going to be looking for another member soon. So uh that can be noted for the record that we are the fun ones. that should help uh make sure we keep getting those good applications in. Uh last year when we came and talked uh I posed a question to our members of just what did they like about serving and that was one of the the things that we brought forward. It was just kind of a general question I thought would be good for members to express why they participated, why they joined the commission. Uh this year I tried to get a little more specific and wanted people to go in what did they enjoy about some of the topics we talked about. And so for a few of the members I'm going to read some of the stuff I have and then turn to my other members who are here to talk themselves. Uh but first uh for member Dan Fergus he said I feel particularly strongly that about sustainability and thus have really appreciated hearing about it and providing thoughts in those areas of our work. I am thrilled with Roseville's Green to Go and appreciate how much the city is working to connect businesses with resources to help with those changes. I'm also really proud of all the work our city is putting into the transition to renewable energy. Member Dez Mueller uh wrote in that she appreciates being able to hear firsthand from city staff what they are working on and how much care goes into ensuring that they are tending to the need of Roseville's residents. Then our student member Carsten Bower wrote in, "I appreciate what I've learned. A highlight for me was the water plant tour. I learned there was much more to water treatment than I had thought, which can be said for many of the city's businesses that I took for granted. Uh, for example, another highlight for me was the recycling RFP. Before then, I didn't know what an RFP was, but by the end, I had an appreciation for how proposals are scored and how various commissions and the council work together carefully to choose the right contract. Altogether, were I not in the commission, I wouldn't know why we have new recycling carts. I wouldn't have been a part of the important decisions and I would be much less connected to my government. >> You may want to turn the mic towards Mr. Hotter a little bit. >> We can touch them now. >> Yes. Yeah, there's no reverb. My dad was an AD specialist, so >> he would appreciate that uh that we can we can touch the mics now. Um yeah, as to that first question, I tell you, I really feel connected to the uh sustainability updates. I really enjoyed the tour as as as um as our other fellow commissioner talked about the St. Paul water services plant. I did get to walk across the plank and uh seeing 30 million gallons of water at one time is uh quite breathtaking. Uh in the solar array at the public works maintenance facility, we did get to tour the roof uh to take a look at the facility and to see how things were going. Uh that that was uh very exciting to see that in action. Uh and I'm really excited about the solar campus uh in general. Uh, and as to the um, >> we'll get to the second. >> We'll get to the second one. I'll hold on now. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Um, I've felt connected to a lot of the inter agency presentations we've received. For example, um, the mosquito control authority came to uh, present to our commission a couple months ago and I had no idea that existed. So, that was fascinating. Um, >> another example, the we received an update from Metrotransit in September. Um, that was, I think, really interesting because I I knew they had been going through a bus network like redesign uh ser in service changes pretty significantly over the last couple of months. Um, and I think something important to note in Roseville specifically, um, they're updating their arterial BRT plan and there's multiple candidate corridors within Roseville. So, I wanted to put out the PSA for Roseville residents to go take a look at that and leave comments as that advances. >> All right. And then for myself, I've I've always enjoyed the variety of topics we hit. Uh we, as you've seen, we've hit a variety and uh just good conversations. It's good getting to know those things, good connections with my fellow members as we talk about those things. And then two things I wanted to note in particular. Uh for the first time we talked about public safety last year. So we had the uh deputy police chief Joe Adams and Assistant Fire Chief Neil >> Solstrom. Solstrom. >> Uh so they both came and uh just gave us a little update and in particular about the connection to the community and I thought that was particularly important about what they're doing. Uh for myself, my son is uh very involved with the fire station. Enjoys going to Fridays with firefighters. I've spent more time than I ever thought I would there. Really excited for that electric truck to come in. Uh so it's just good again to hear that connection, to hear what we're doing, to have the connection between our emergency services in the community. And then the other one I wanted to mention is through the commission I got involved with the bike plan as well and enjoyed going on those tours doing the biking tours again connecting with fellow community members having that input into the plan and then being that connection from the commission both to the community for the plan and then back uh as we connected on that. And then another one I took some of those tours with my daughter uh who also said is this what you do every day? I don't think I want to do this. So I I think I've lost an engineer there, but still uh got her out on a bike and got her to experience that as well. So again, trying to get those connections and uh much like Carsten said, just have that connection to the government and what it means. All right, so with that, I'll pause before we get in our discussion if there's any comments or any questions for the three of us up here and just our experiences. >> Comments, questions? Council member Grath, >> um, sort of a comment. This is great. This is exactly like to what what I like to hear from a commission that you're having fun, but also you're doing a lot of work because I read through your your lists and what you'd accomplished and that was a fun review for me because I know in the background these things are going on, but I can't of course listen to every every meeting. It's not possible. So, appreciated the update. But the other thing I wanted to say about it, um, for me, I think part of my hope for commissions is that you spread the word about this to community to your spheres of influence. You know, it's great for you to come and tell us, which I I appreciate. I I thought that was a good uh good process, Mr. free sick. But I think telling your neighbors, telling your friends, you know, just not that you have to be a total cheerleader all the time, but it's it's helpful for the city because I hear from residents so many times that they don't know things that the city's doing. And when you do dig into it, there's a lot going on just like Karsten said or some of the others, you know, it's there's a lot going on involved in the city. So, >> you're sort of uh the our ears and eyes too out in the neighborhood. and if you see things or hear things, I always appreciate a email or or input. Thanks. >> Thank you, Council Member Strong. >> Thank you. Um, just wanted to put a plug for the uh bike the restricted bike lanes between B and B2. And if you >> have a comment about them, make sure that somebody knows what that comment is, especially if you like them because um >> someone said, "Oh, it's the bike trail to nowhere." But I think it's nice to know that that's a possibility. I have definitely seen people just flat out run each one of those things over. Um, but I do think it requires people to pay more attention and as a result of paying attention, I I honked and waved to >> you did caught me off guard, but then I >> I know I was like, who is that? Um I did note that um maybe it was a couple years ago now we talked about reduced um about citywide speed limits and I don't see that as something that you talked about and it continues to be in our future agenda. Um and so you know I think I don't know if we I don't know that we came to a resolution so it never really got taken off of there but at that at one point it just says uh PWA will continue to work on issue and report back. So, um I know that even today as we're getting information about county road, there is interest in people um talking more about what a citywide speed limit is. Of course, we do have the limitations of having a lot of county roads in our city. And so, there are only certain things that we can control, but regularly we hear from residents that they think that people are going to pass through their neighborhoods. So, I think it would be um interesting to see what now we have a little bit of a longitudinal study in St. Paul and Lauderdale and Felic Heights now that they've had these in place to see, you know, what is what is the long-term um benefit or or none uh to having those citywide speed limits. Are they finding any improvement or any quality of life improvements? So, I'd appreciate >> if that got back on the radar. So otherwise I'll have to take it off. We're not going to talk about it. >> No. Perfect. Um which is exactly why we like this conversation because then we can hear some of those priorities. >> Uh so turning to that and that discussion back and forth. We did have some items in the packet that uh we're trying to give you a little advanced warning on and hopefully we can have some back and forth. Uh so I've written down some of them. Again, I'll turn to my members when they get to theirs. Uh, but I'm just going to go down the list and we can kind of talk about them. The first one that got brought up is the trash collection single source. We have talked about that before. Uh, this was a member who hadn't seen those conversations, wanted to ask about it again. So, I am asking about it again if that is of any interest to this council to look into that or not. >> Well, I'm not running for reelection, so I'd be interested. It's a dangerous topic in the city and so you have to take it knowing that you probably will have personal attacks on you for making that decision >> by outside influence >> and this is one where we would need specific direction from the council. This is not one that we're just going to add to our agenda. Uh so that is where this question comes in and if the answer is no, we're done. If the answer is yes, we will entertain a way to look at it um and see if we make a recommendation or not. >> Mr. Trean, I did want to check uh when are we due for our next community survey? Is that uh in 2026? >> 2026. So that that is a question that we routinely ask and I think there was some movement in the last round. So it'd be interesting to see what you know what happens on the next survey to see if the if it goes back to where it was for 20 years or if it continues to move in that direction. That's my response on it. Council member Schroer. >> Yeah, because I was going to say the um it was still there wasn't the community wasn't behind it, but the other thing I wanted to say we have so many different expenses coming up. This to me this isn't a priority of when it we're we still need to find money for fire and police and all this in the next um budget and adding because you have to add staff and you have to add expense for this. And so I I think I think we got to wait for the survey and wait. So I guess I would say I would not um I would not have it on a current agenda at this point. >> Any other thoughts on organized collection? Council member C. >> I'm sort of in the middle on it. I think that it it as council member Stron said, it's a dangerous subject for council members. I I don't know if all of us have been attacked. I guess if you've never brought it up, you've brought probably not been attacked, but we have a major lobbyist for the garbage collectors in Roseville that has lots of money to attack you when you run for office. So, they can spend tens, 20s, thousands of dollars on uh mailers that aren't very true. So, that's why I think we're all a bit hesitant. I mean, some of us that might be more uh more supportive. The only thing I would say is if if the commission wanted to bring it up, they could research it. I would be I'm always interested in more information on it. Um what other cities are doing, how it's worked there. We have track records now in other cities that have done it. But uh just take that as you'd like as far as whether you want to put it on your agenda or not. That's kind of my take on it. >> Other thoughts? >> Anything more to add? I think it's been summed up well. I agree that we'll wait until the next survey comes and definitely not a priority. Um I can think of other things where you would to be looking at. Okay, next one we had on there. The next two were kind of combined just uh how we mix with other commissions and that intersection between where some topics overlap uh where we have discussions of similar topics and how we can best uh coordinate our efforts with those other commissions or or not. Uh we've we've tried to have some conversations with them. We've tried to make some movement that as a commission we've tried to do that uh not very successfully. Uh it does take time. It does take some effort. And so this is where wanted to again open that up and look for advice, look for comments, look for direction, how we might how we might better connect with other commissions uh roles, responsibilities again where either topics overlap or where we think we should get in there because again we haven't been doing well on our own. So looking to the council for some help. I think you know one of the challenges that any any commission has is that to do action you have to be the commission and you have to meet um so in a lot of cases it might have to be something where it's a joint meeting perhaps between two commissions and all the members of both commissions participate and maybe you have a specific agenda of limited topics to to cover. um uh it can be a challenge when you have >> you know five to seven members of one commission and you know seven to nine members of another or whatever it might be >> um but I think that's probably one of the ways it has to be done and I know we have in certain cases where we've had like special committees looking at when we did the um um the the golf course facility we did have a sort of a committee that had representatives from the finance commission and representatives from from parks and wreck and I can't remember if there were others as well but there so those are other formalized opportunities but once again I think to to to do the business of commissions you do have to do it as the commission so probably looking at where it's appropriate to do joint meetings and you know certainly if there's overlap on topics maybe it's like there's an annual joint meeting between two commissions or something like that or you know um be thoughtful about it and maybe there's creative ways to do it but uh that's what I thought council members Sure. >> Um actually um you could meet you know one or two from a commission with another commission because I believe it's not an open meeting law unless you have a quorum from each of the uh commissions. Correct. So if you had two from this commission and two from a different commission that's not a quorum because they're different commissions. >> Right. They couldn't take any action of course they have to report back to their commissions. Right. So, so another So, it's like you guys wanted to talk, you know, just kind of talk to say, "Hey, we think maybe there's something we could maybe work together and if they think, yeah, then then you could set up the joint meetings at that." But it doesn't I don't think it precludes them for one or two from me, you know, to talk. >> No, absolutely not. You're right. >> Because it's not an open, you know, as long as you don't have a quorum with your commission and a quorum of another commission, that that would be it. But if it's just one or two of you wanting to talk and maybe just at least explore that, you can do that. >> Yeah, a quorum of either commission would be a problem of course for open >> I think I think the part of it is people are a little got frightened with this open um meeting law and I think maybe we need to clarify that better. I don't know if you if if it' be helpful if we could say you know you know give them the hey it's okay to do this if somebody's worried about it. So yeah, if they need a clarification on that, I'm sure that can be provided. >> There's still there's still >> guidelines you have to work with, but there may be ways to clearly >> and perhaps chair chairtochair conversations, for instance, might not be a bad idea, you know, to talk about sort of strategically how to work together or something. Council member, >> what comes to mind is our um strategic plan that we've been working on so much as a council and as department heads that um within each one, it wasn't just this is a public works one, but this is a you know that I think that's where you would find a lot of topics that might go into a work plan that might find you might find that there's overlap when you look at that because really we've chosen as a council to have that be our guiding document as a city. So I think in looking at that it might be easier for you to tap into some of those items and go oh you know that's where we fit and that's what we've decided is our guiding document. So it's a really great way to say you know in this spirit we wonder if this would fit this goal and um you know Jesse would be a great resource on that. He's gone to all the meetings as a department head and um you know as they explore further down in the staff too. I think I think you would find a lot of support for taking that as a guiding document instead of like which ne is our next project but how can we make sure when any project we have kind of speaks to what our goals are as a whole city >> uh council member Grath >> I would say that a chair to chair is a good way to start that and when you're um having your meetings maybe just even as as commissioner think of um the other commissions and how they might fit in with your some of your work sometimes. It isn't going to be very often I don't think and also I I think that the time commitment is you know we're expecting a lot of you as volunteer commission. So I think you know that's just the balancing act you as a commission chair and as a commission have to think about too. But I do think it's good to have some interaction because it's uh your work as public works overlaps often with other things. So, um, >> anytime you can have someone opinions from there, it makes your commission stronger and it makes their commission stronger. So, that would be my take. Kind of look to the chair and then the commissions when you're there, maybe at the end of the meeting, just say, was there anything tonight? Take a minute. Is there anything tonight that would go with another commission and go from there? So to take that a step further, I'm thinking of, you know, the short meetings or can we invite other commissions to like the the chair or something? So if we're talking on a topic, can we invite one or two of them or however many? And how does that work with some of the open rules? Like we would be in session or they would be in session and invite us. So, as long I think, you know, as long as the other commission isn't meeting and doing business, if they're just attending to gather information or maybe even as citizens to provide comment as individuals, um, you know, >> are you getting nervous that we >> she's giving an a >> there, you know, obviously there is there are opportunities for people to to uh get information that don't necessarily have to be meetings, but I will defer to the city attorney for more >> mayor wrote respectfully I if you were going to have a quorum of another commission attend your meeting it would just be safer to publish that as a meeting of that commission as well which is totally fine to just publish it each commission would publish that they were having meeting at the same place and then you have no concerns and you're able to to discuss whatever you want to discuss and that that would be the safest way to handle that that idea >> and also they could not vote in your commission meeting on >> well there's there's other rules that prevent that but you know just >> but >> okay >> that's why we have our attorney that's why we have >> and and publishing it is really quite straightforward and easy >> yeah it's just >> city staff fully they can handle that >> y 48 hours notice or something >> three days >> 72 thank you >> 72 lot of words >> I would have been short a day good right Well, I think you touched on I think you touched on the question already as far as the overlapping topics. And I was thinking as my past experience as chair of the finance commission where we do overlap is like pavement management funds and the 20-year capital investment plan that it's a good idea for us and finance to uh you know that would be a good time to exchange you know ideas around those those matters. but you've touched on it how we would do that. So, thank you. >> Y good. >> Um, next one we had on the list, uh, again, I brought it up with the public safety, but just, um, are there more areas or other topics around that that you would like us to explore? And noting we're we're careful. We're not an oversight of them. We're just trying to bring forward any community or interest in that public safety which could go a lot of different ways but uh I thought like I said the first one was very good and just wanted to see if there was interest in exploring more topics along those lines. >> Thoughts from council members? I guess I would note that uh um you know I don't necessarily expect the public works folks to talk a lot about the nuts and bolts of public safety of police work and firework necessarily. Um the thing that I think about with public safety when it relates to public works is actually things like speed limits in the city and you know pedestrian uh facilitation and safety and some of those types of issues. Um, I think it's very important that we have a safe and functional system and network of transportation in the community. And so that's that's probably the biggest thing. And then obviously things like safe drinking water, you know, and safe handling of of the the sewage and things like that. >> Um, when we're talking about changes to our our sewer reimbursement policy or something like that, I think that those are the kind of things that come to mind from my perspective. I don't know that there's otherwise a great deal of of overlap on the other aspects of public safety necessarily, but that's I I can stand corrected as I've done before this evening. Um so I'd open it up further council members for their thoughts. >> Council member Schroeder. >> No, I would agree. I think I think that um um I I don't think there's a lot of overlap in that area, but you know, the the safety needs to be an overall concern when we're looking at all these other things. So, um you know, I don't you know, I could understand if maybe you need some if there's something you're concerned about that you would like some feedback from say one of the um the police chief or deputy chief or whatever just to say, "Hey, you were thinking about this. you know, if there's something about maybe around um Rosedale or shopping center somewhere, you know, traffic or or busing or something that you wanted their input on, maybe that side, but I I I guess I wouldn't think there would be anything you'd really have a project with them. >> Council member Strong, >> I talk kindergarten. There's a connection to everything. So, um you know, I was thinking um approaches to parks. So like what what is the approach as like a walkway into a park space? Um you know looking at we had a a me resident who no longer lives in Roseville but who always mentioned that buildings um in Roseville even though they somehow thought they were grandfathered into ADA accessibility and so they didn't have accessible buildings. Um and so I mean but just anything around um our public works as we approach this big project too. We're going to have to there's going to have to be interim solutions that are made um as things are relocated for a short period of time. And so um if there's ways that you guys can be a think tank or a brainstorming a brain trust for staff so that they there's a lot of experts on your on your group and a lot of engineering minds. So if there's some way that you can facilitate, you know, be that um brain trust for the staff so we don't have to get a request for outside assistance on something that maybe is just like what's the best what do you think is the best use at least maybe help guide which direction we go with it. But I appreciate the finance connection, but I think there's a lot of connections potential with with parks. Um drainage of uh water in some of the parks is really bad. And so have we explored what that looks like? How we could um look at the public works infrastructure on that or the lighting in some of the parks? Um as we explore and is it down lighting? Is it appropriate lighting based on uh pollution standards? I mean even so much as um Rosefest, is it time for us to no longer have regular fireworks, but we should invest in a drone show that you know is pollutant free. I mean, I don't know that's a little bit of a stretch for you guys, but I think thinking about >> how you can take some of the things you do really well and apply them to other things happening within the city. And I think you don't need to do it all, but for sure not. There's the rest of time to do these. But if there's something that you identify as an issue, then you can bring it to the council that you know what, we really noticed there's this big problem with um you know, drainage in uh Central Park, especially along, you know, some of the drain the ditch drainage. Is that something >> it seems like it's on the city property or you know, is that something bring it to the city? Is that something you want us to study? Bring it to your staff member. You know, sometimes we used to have people from other commissions come and say, you know, we identified this as something we'd like to study. Are you supportive of this or, you know, so I think there are opportunities for sure, but again, I taught kindergarten, so everything's connected to everything. >> All right. >> All right. You want it? >> Sure. Um, something I'm looking forward to working on this year is the civic campus master plan, public works maintenance facility project. Um, I love construction. I'm like 5-year-old with all the trucks and whatever. Um, I personally I think this has come up before. I don't remember in what capacity, but um I believe there's been mention of a potential future committee that like for the project that maybe invol uh has members from commissions and other residents on it. Um, I just want to bring that up again because I'm definitely interested in participating in that um, and having I know it's going to be a regular standing topic on our agendas moving forward, but um, I think it's a really exciting project and also something um, that I think a lot of people are going to have a lot of interest in. >> I think the committee is still part of the process. >> It is. It's still part of the plan. >> Okay. All right. I think the last one I had then is just kind of the catchall. Um, are we meeting expectations? Um, so we we do a lot we've talked a lot of topics. They don't always come out with a recommendation. It's not like we're always sending stuff back to you of we did this and we recommend we do this. Some of it is just a lot of it is just educational which um I think there's a lot of value in. But again, kind of asking that catchall. Are we meeting expectations? Are we um you know are we covering the recommendations you need? Are you seeing the topics that you need and just are we in in a sense doing our jobs as as you envision? >> Thoughts from the council on council member Bower? >> Um overall yes I think you are. Uh one of the great things is you do have a lot of information brought to you in a wide variety. So, hats off to you because of the um topics you have to listen to and get right up on and become somewhat not an expert, but at least uh enough to ask questions that you do and uh you know, you do a great job of that. Your whole commission uh you have great dialogues, long conversations about these things. It's not simply you receive the information. I think uh it's you know, you process it, you digest it, you ask questions, get clarification, you do a great job of doing of doing that. Um, so and you receive information that we don't necessarily. You brought up the mosquito control for example, you know, typically that doesn't come before us. So, uh, if things like that do come up and you feel like there is something that should be brought to our attention, you definitely can do that. I would also encourage you and all the C commissions, we have, uh, commissionerled or commissioner initiated uh, topics. So, that's also something I would encourage you if there's something that you as a commissioner are interested in and you can get buy in with the rest of your commission to discuss it. Um, you may do that. That doesn't mean that's going to come before us and you might end up getting clarification, but we try to encourage all of our commissions to uh do that. So, not just receive information, but you do have the power to um investigate things or ask questions yourself. You know, maybe you receive some information about something and you want further clarification about that. you can do that so long as you go through that process which is clearly uh laid out. But I do think that you're meeting expectations. Um I think you've done fantastic work. I mean the recycling um you know the all aspects of the recycling, the cards, the things that uh green to go as well. Um you know the list goes on on these were not small things and your commission has delivered that you know every one of those uh each time on schedule and provided this council >> and in budget >> and in yes >> uh and uh provided this council with fantastic information that have made our lives easier and much better and we've been able to make much better decisions because of that. So hats off to your commission. Thank you >> council member Strong. I I think to the fact that you are an advisory capac uh committee and how we can take what you've learned in a way to be in an advisory capacity. Um you know one of our um pieces on each of the items is a equity impact a budget impact. Maybe it would be I I don't want to add more work, but if you have come to something where you have where you've summarized what you've learned in a process and how it fits. So you went to the you talked to the mosquito control. How does that fit into the greater good or how the greater process like council member Grath mentioned we don't have time to watch all them and it's really even it's hard to follow even all the minutes but um it it certainly would be helpful if a topic came forward that we were addressing that you've already done a bunch of work on that we don't have to start over um and research and we can tap in and I don't know what that is um I I don't know what's possible um what's allowable, but I do think it you're you guys are generating an massive amount of stuff and you're just you're doing great work. Um, and I I just want to make sure we respect it by using it and tapping into that um time and effort that you've spent and the expertise just like we the budget the finance commission comes forward with a whole bunch of recommendations and a whole bunch of information that makes council members are so excited. Um but um I think you know having that opportunity to maybe kind of in a nutshell or bigger if we wanted more information where to find something that you've already worked on and I don't know you know the first thing that comes to my mind is a share drive or a dock location or a or a summary that comes out on occasion um with more details. It's not just minutes where you talk about the general idea of it. But so I don't know what that is. I I I will leave that to someone else to decide what that looks like. But I certainly want to make sure we tap into the time and effort you spend >> on something um and use it to make our work and what we do here better for the city because that's why we entrusted you with the opportunity to do this. We we we found your skills to be something we really hope to lean into. >> Other thoughts from councils? >> I'll just say a short answer. Yes. You're meeting our expectations. >> Great job. That's what I think. >> Fantastic. >> Thumbs up. Yep. >> All right. There we go. There we go. And I don't I don't know that you have to change a lot for sure. I mean, you know, the the recycling contracts come up every once in a while. The this and that project, obviously, the maintenance facility is going to be a big thing over the next couple years here. So, that'll probably occupy a fair amount of your time. But, uh, you know, and we and we do have our, uh, you know, our oh my gosh, what is it? this the the surface water management plan that you guys look at and all those types of things. >> So apprec appreciate that. >> Council member Schroeder, >> you know, I I did want to add some it's reassuring for us because it's a lot of if you look at something and you guys say, "Yeah, this is good." You know, it it doesn't have we don't need to know about it or whatever. It's I think we're more if there's a thought or an issue or something you're concerned about and then you think the council needs to be I think in a way I look at it that you guys are our ears and eyes in this area and so that we we have confidence that you're u looking at these things and if you're finding that things are being done the way you you know that makes sense then great you don't really need to bring that you know a big report or anything on that because we and we can just, you know, you guys are doing it, but if you see something and and I think Commissioner Bowerer said, you know, bring it to us or or, you know, or have staff or whatever. So, I think that's more in that aspect where we're we're counting on you just to kind of keep an eye on things and then if something, you know, like with the, you know, recycling stuff and all that, you guys looked at all of that and and if you guys had a, you know, concern, we'd want to hear about it. If it's going great, it's okay not to say, "Hey, you know, you don't have to give us the checklist because we trusted your judgment that way." So, >> we don't need the all good alarm. Everything's okay. Everything's okay. >> All right. I'm good. >> All right. Anything else? >> Oh my. >> All right. Otherwise, I just uh do want to give a shout out to staff. uh they are such an important part of what we do and bringing the information and doing the research for us as well. So uh just kudos to the staff. They've been great to work with and we really appreciate their input and their time in helping us. >> And with that thank you very much. >> Thank you for being here and thank you for all the work you guys do for >> being here. >> Yeah. Sorry we couldn't get you earlier. It's >> democracy at work. >> All right. Uh we still have one more business item here. Item G, >> Jesse's still here >> on our public works night at the city of Roseville. Uh is to uh consider approving an RFP and an RFQ related to the civic campus master plan. And I will not say anything more about it, but turn it over to Mr. Fryhammer to give this uh item its introduction. >> Uh thank you, mayor and councel. Just a real quick uh summary of what's in the packet. Um, so on July 7th, the city council approved moving the civic campus master plan forward with uh concept C to further move the project forward. Uh, staff worked with the city attorney um to develop an RFP for or request for proposals, RFP for architectural services and an RFQ, a request for qualifications uh for uh construction management services. So in the packet we did include a draft RFP and a draft RFQ. Um the architecture the architectural RFP uh would complete overall design of the maintenance operation facility um and and licensed passport center and dance studio. Um it would uh look at the scope all the way from some revised uh concept design to further concept C1 or C2 um details like that all the way through final design documents. Um, so in the packet we did include a scoring criteria of what we propose to use to base those uh uh scores on and then we propose to bring a recommendation back to council on September 15th. Um, a similar process would be to hire a construction manager. Staff's proposing to use a construction manager at risk model. Um, this delivery method is where the owner hires a construction manager early in the design process. uh they provide input on design, cost, scheduling and ultimately take the role of general contractor during the construction. Um the key aspect in this delivery method is a guaranteed maximum price which shifts the shifts the risk of the cost overruns from the owner to the construction manager. Um this process is done a little differently. Um it's required to do a two-part process. So we do a request for qualifications um and then shortlist those and then bring back uh do they would do a formal RFP similar to the architectural at that point. Um and then we would hope to bring that back to council on um October 13th. And we did include a similar rubric um to the architect one. It's it's a little different based on the requirements. So with that um certainly can answer lots of questions. There's lots of detail in the draft uh proposals, but um with that, I will turn over to the council for questions. >> Mr. Mayor, if I point clarification, just so it's clear, the the construction manager is a two-step process. So, right now it would be uh request for uh quotes. I'm sorry, >> qualifications. >> Qualifications. >> Late request for qualifications. Uh once we would winnow that down, we would then go to the RFP and that's what we would bring forward October 13th, the decision to award um the contract to construction manager. Just want to make sure that's clear. >> So, the RFP is is built into the process after the request for qualifications. >> Well, I want to make sure that's clear. you know, we can certainly bring that back if you if you'd like, but we're working that, but the idea would be from the qualifications go to the RFP that be similar in scope as what we're talking about. And you've seen the the scoring things, but um but the idea in October uh 13th bring back a recommendation to hire that firm based off the >> Thanks for that clarification. Uh that might have been the first question. Um questions from the council on the process or what's before us. And just to be clear, it's a request for proposals on the architectural services and a request for qualifications on the construction management services. Um, what's in the packet is not proposals, but those requests in draft form. Right. There was a reference to proposals a moment ago, so I just wanted to clarify that. >> Questions from the council. >> All right. Uh, do we have anybody from the public who wishes to speak to this item? >> After having patiently waited till >> Yes. >> us being behind a little bit. >> Just really quick questions. So, Roger H and Wagner, please. And am I assume the the two documents that were in the packet are kind of rough drafts. Will someone be uh fixing that up? because I noticed there a lot of errors in there. And then uh before you built the fire station, you kind of went through a whole lot of things you wanted there and didn't want there. So I was curious if you've uh discussed um having storage space for the youth athletic leagues. If you might have a basement since you have an elevator, it would be really cheap to add a basement and a lot more square footage. Have you talked about geothermal and solar or how green the building should be? Because I remember you talked a lot about that for the fire station before you hired anyone to do anything. And uh have you talked with the fire department to see if they could have would like better access into for their vehicles to get into their garages? Because right now it looks like it's really tight the way they come in. It might be better if they had an entrance farther west. And then uh well I guess I didn't know it did you guys ever have a discussion about this uh con this construction manager at risk versus a regular one because it seems like the one at risk is going to have to figure out try to calculate their expenses three or four years from now. So after they do that, they got to add some more padding into that cuz they're not going to want to lose money on this thing and they have no idea what cost will be three or four years ago. So it seems like the risk version would cause the the bids to be really high. So I'm just wondering if you guys ever had a discussion about the two different kinds. And my last question is, uh, I noticed that the construction manager can't bid on sub subcontracting work. And I don't know if that's a state law that they can't or if this something you decided to do because uh, I mean, if they've got qualified people that do plumbing and they do it at the best price, I don't know why you wouldn't want them to do it. And also, I don't know if anyone's talked with the school district cuz, you know, they just finished hundreds of millions of dollars of new construction and reconstruction and many of the b the bid packets they put out, they only got one bid on a lot of the things, especially like structural steel and things like that. So, I think you want big a pool as you can get to get bids on the all these materials and labor. So anyway, I would suggest somebody from the from the city actually talk with them because they just, you know, they finished up a huge projects and you might want to see what kind of um information they might be able to pass on to you. And that's it. You can have a good rest of the night. All right. Thank you. Appreciate your comments. I think that that kind of leads into the one one of the questions I was going to ask is is as we go through some of these design processes sometimes there is the well you might as well kind of thing. Um, how is the is there something built into the process to to for instance I know it was brought up recently uh potentially uh the license center and dance studio building could provide a restroom amenity to the Veterans Park field. Are those types of things able to be somehow fit into the process? Uh, you know, certainly if we if we're doing storage for for certain things and we add a few more square feet of storage for for a little more stuff or additional office space, you know, beyond what we have, how is that going to enter into some of the conversations um through these processes? >> So, one of the first steps we so for specific to the architectural RFP, one of the first steps we have, they break it out into different design processes. So, one of the first steps will be kind of finalizing that schematic design to make sure they have what it is um that they need to to get in place. So, there'll be lots of steps and check-in points um to finalize what that scope is um that that they're going to be doing along the way. >> Okay. >> And I will say that there's checks along the way for the council to weigh in. I think it's at 30%. >> Yeah. So I I think actually it's at 15% 30% um and then ultimately approving the final documents, but that's more of a formality to release for bid. But certainly we we'll have check-in points to to make sure the scope is what we want. Um uh related to some of the sustainability options, we although we haven't identified anything, we do have that as an ad alternate for the um architect to bid on that to if if we go for an a B3 requirement or a lead certification. Um what would it take? what additional design services do they need to do that? So, um certainly as we de we we can identify if we want to go after something different. Um you know I don't I don't I wasn't here for the um fire station so I don't know what process or what if we we shot for a goal. I know for Cedar Home I don't think we did that. I think we we picked and chose a few things that we wanted to do but um there'll be a lot of like I said circling back with uh the C council as we go through this design process. And I would mention, it was referenced a couple times tonight in regards to the uh stakeholder group that would involve all the commission members as well as residents and the BFW to take a look at the final design and kind of have um recommendations or weigh in on some design choices that will all be reported back to the council for you to factor in. So I think there's opportunities to u pivot if we need to. Um everything comes with a cost, so we want to be very costconcious as well. But if we identify opportunities where maybe hey if we just did a little bit more here it might be really worth it and we'd want to have that fullthroated policy discussion to make sure everybody's on board with that not just have it happen behind uh the doors. So I think there's a lot of opportunities for us to pivot as we need to. Right. And um you know one of the things that uh um that we did on the fire station which you weren't here for Mr. Mr. Fryhammer was that I think we got that optional price for the additional engineering services and we didn't like the cost associated with that. So the council decided to not shoot for the I think it was lead silver certification or whatever at that point because it was an additional whatever it was 120,000 or whatever the number was and it it felt like that I think at that time the decision was thanks for putting that information it's helpful information but we'd rather put either not spend those dollars or put those dollars towards the facility itself and and you know get more value out of that. So that was that was the decision at the time, but I think it was all uh you know based on that similar type of option for the engineering services. Other thoughts from council members? >> Council member Strong? >> I know that some of the things we've talked about potentially being in this dance center uh passport license building um include possibly a um some type of snack bar or something. And now you're saying possibly um restrooms and potentially storage or offices. So I mean I want to make sure we it seems like it's really open-ended. So is there some kind of like footprint or something that we're looking at or I mean just build whatever you think of. I mean like >> no >> no we got nothing. Okay. >> Well well let's let's let's put it in context. We are still building a license and passport center to serve those services and a recreational space. It has been brought out by others that it might be an opportunity to take a look at restrooms. I'm not sure about a concession stand for that, but um and I think that's something we'll bet out is through the process and see if we were to do this, this would cost x amount and then we would have to make that decision. I think we have to be really costconscious on this on this project. There might be a lot of nice to haves u to do that, but we're going to have to be really focused on what we need to be focused on. So, so I I wouldn't characterize it as open-ended. We we know what we want to build here and it's just some of the um the edges there to be we have an opportunity to do things. I think when we talk about the maintenance operations center, we have a lot of space needs, but we're dealing with a lot more space. So, that might offer some flexibility without adding cost saying, "Hey, can we carve out some uh areas for youth sports to be um stored in there?" there's operational issues with that. So, you know, you provide the space, but also how do you make sure there's u 247 access for those folks and how does that work out? So, we have to sus all that out. I think but I think when you have a limited building like the passport center, you have to be very thoughtful on how much more you're going to add to it. Um because that's going to come with a cost, >> right? I mean, I know we've talked a lot about the space needs for additional uh offices, especially here in this building. And so I mean I think it should be at least on the table as a possibility that that could be you know um an option and I agree that maybe a a basement or you know have I don't know I'm not a builder. I don't know anything. No. Um but I'm just saying um just that we look at some opportunities to maybe maybe it's not a complete ad to put another story that you know below grade or partly below grade. I don't know. But I want to make sure we're also addressing some of our other really big concerns we've had around space while we're building something. >> Yeah. and that's going to be the rub because I think the challenge is we're all very costconscious and concern is very expensive as as estimated right now. So, um I don't want to necessarily look to add to that, but I think there are also needs here. So, we're just going to have to weigh that and take those up as they come up and and if there's an opportunity to do something that is either cost effective or really not that much more cost add-on, that might be something to talk about. But we'll sus that out internally a little bit um and then bring that forward for council to discuss and hey we looked at this and this doesn't make sense or this might be worthwhile for you to have an opinion on what do you think should we do this or not? >> I think that makes sense. Uh council member strong one other question um the pewet mentioned um going to see the solar array on top of the m um mainten current maintenance facility. Are those going to be reused or are they um going the is that going to be changed or altered in some way or is that available to be added to something like this building and you know built into other things that we're already working on? >> The intention is to reuse those solar panels. A big chunk of those are on the building the roof that's stained. Um so some would have to be moved but yeah it was even if we were moving across the street it was always the intention to move those across the street. And just for information purposes, the uh public works building solar array uh produced 409 kilowatt hours today. We have a dashboard for that on the city's website. Anyway, um other thoughts, feedback from council members? Otherwise, we have the request before us to approve the uh request for proposals uh draft and uh request for qualifications. Uh, and I would note that or I would just double check. I I presume there'll be another review of the documents before they go out. Uh, and are >> absolutely correct. Absolutely. And adding all the attachments. >> Got it. Yep. Okay. >> Mayor, Council Member Grath. >> I would make a motion to approve the RFQ for construction management at risk services and approve the RFP for architectural services. >> Second. It's been moved by council member Grath, second by council member Strawn uh to authorize the issuance of those documents upon further cleanup and qualif uh checking. Um and I did want to note by way of discussion too that I believe we did have a conversation about the two models for the construction management as part of our council conversations earlier in this process. So that that conversation has been had. Yeah. Other council discussion is the maker. Council member Grath. Uh, no. This is a step in a long process and we're going to have many, many op more options as city manager Judge was saying to review this, but we do need to move ahead because we need to get these uh requests for proposals going so we can fine-tune the rest of it. So, that's why making the motion, >> right? Uh, second, Council Member Strong. >> Nothing further. >> Right. Other discussion on the motion >> hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. I opposed. >> I believe I heard a nay in there. >> No. >> Okay. I That's why I was checking. So that passed that passed unanimously then. >> All right. We do want to make sure we account for all the votes. >> Yes. >> All right. We have hit our curfew. Uh we have minutes and consent agenda. >> It was my earring. >> Do we do we do we have a motion related to the curfew? >> I move to extend the curfew to cover the rest of the minutes. >> All right. All right. It's been moved by Council Member Grath, second by Council Member Bower to extend the meeting for the purpose of concluding the agenda. Uh, all those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously. Oh, was there any discussion? No. Anyway, sorry. Uh, that then brings us to um that's the end of our business items. We have one set of council meeting minutes from July 7th. Those have been provided to the council. The council has had opportunity to review those and corrections and changes have been made. Uh, are there any other changes or corrections uh from the council's perspective or a motion to approve? >> Move approval of the minutes as amended. >> Second. >> All right. It's been moved by council member McGrath, second by council member Bower to approve the minutes from July 7th as presented. >> Discussion on that motion? >> No. >> Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. That passes unanimously. Pardon me. Those items are approved uh or those minutes are approved. That brings us to the consent agenda. Mr. Treasure, can you give us a brief uh summary of the consent items? >> Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Real briefly, item 10 A approves payments in the amount of $2,59,97 and1 cent. Item 10B approves entering enter entering into a grant agreement with Metropolitan Council for the community tree planting program. Roseville will receive $251,796 in grants to assist in the support of the EMOL ashbor program that removes diseased ash trees and and replacing them with climate resilient tree plantings. Item 10 C approves the short-term rental license for 257 South McCarron's Boulevard. Item 10 D approves a short-term rental license for 658 Belmont Lane. Item 10E adopts resolution approving the final uh contract acceptance for the county road B reconstruction project and the 2024 pavement management program and authorizes the final payment of $39,000 to the contractor. And the last item uh approves the contract for the Tamarak Park Pathway project to Minnesota Paving Materials in the amount of $14,7151. And that is the consent agenda. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Trean. Uh is there a motion on the consent agenda? >> So moved. >> Second. >> It's been moved by council member Shartter, seconded by council member Gra. Uh discussion on the motion. >> Nope. >> Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I opposed. That passes unanimously and the consent items are approved. You want me to do the future agenda or? >> Mr. Treasur, can you give us the future agenda >> real briefly? We do have a little bit of a break on August 11th. Uh we'll have a a proclamation, receive the second quarter financial report. Uh a couple items more for discussion. Uh if you remember, a resident came forward with beekeeping regulations. We put together that case just for information to see if there's any direction you want to give us. Also, we do need to talk with the city council meeting calendar mentioned last time. Uh I did take a look at the minutes and I don't know if we really resolved anything. So the fact of the truth and taxation hearing um we may need to have a second meeting December but that's up for the council to discuss. So we'll sort that out and then also want to uh begin a discussion about this. There's a change in state law about remote meetings. They've taken away the uh limit to three and as our the council rule council and commission rules of uh procedure do address remote participation. So I want to revisit that in light of that law change if we want to approach it differently or do the same. So just like I said,formational items and this reminder in August 20th would be the um special council meeting for commission interviews for the vacancy and PE and then on the 25th of August uh look to have uh council uh here uh city manager's recommended budget and levy. We also want to have a conversation our three-year contracts for civil and uh prosecuting legal services are up under our policy. We do go out for RFPs every three years. However, the council can extend that. Um so we'll have discussion on that um and not go out for an RFP and extend a contract for another three years. I also want to receive storm water pond updates. So uh Jesse and team will be back to talk about that and then look to appoint the commissioner to PET. >> All right. Thank you. Questions on the future. >> Question on the commission applicant for PUET. What is the deadline for those applicants? Do you know? >> Off hand I don't know. Um I can we should probably get that word out. Yeah, I'm asking >> definitely has been out in some of our social media. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry, Counc. I don't know off the top of my head here, but I think it's uh pretty soon >> at least a week or two prior prior to >> couple weeks ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Great. If there's no further business, any announcements, communications, reports, uh a motion to adjourn would be in order. >> So moved. >> Second. It's moved by council member Straw, seconded by council member Grath to adjurnn. No discussion on a motion to adjurnn. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I opposed. That passes unanimously and we are journed at 10:06 p.m. Thank you everyone.