--- title: Minutes - Final --- 15 West Kellogg Blvd. ## Saint Paul, MN 55102 ## City of Saint Paul ## Minutes - Final ## Legislative Hearings ## Marcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer ## Mai Vang, Hearing Coordinator ## Joanna Zimny, Executive Assistant legislativehearings@ci.stpaul.mn.us 651-266-8585 ## 9:00 AM ## Room 330 City Hall & Court House/Remote Tuesday, April 21, 2026 9:00 a.m. Hearings ## Special Tax Assessments 1 ## RLH TA 25-410 Ratifying the Appealed Special Tax Assessment for property at 511 ## BAY STREET. (File No. J2601R1, Assessment No. 268602) (Amend to delete) ## Sponsors: ## Noecker Delete the assessment. Kelsey Whitcomb, owner, appeared via phone Moermond: this is a trip charge for the crew going out, but the work was already done by you. The Department of Safety and Inspections doesn’t have access to the orders that were issued. You’ve been waiting a long time. I’m going to recommend this is deleted. Whitcomb: I appreciate that. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 ## RLH TA 25-4292 Ratifying the Appealed Special Tax Assessment for property at 1077 ## BLAIR AVENUE. (File No. J2526R1, Assessment No. 258591) (Amend to delete) ## Sponsors: ## Bowie Delete the assessment. Roy Rodriguez, owner, appeared via phone Moermond: we delayed a hearing from you since last August. The Department of Safety and Inspections doesn’t have access to the orders that were issued. You’ve been waiting a long time. I’m going to recommend this is deleted. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 3 ## RLH TA 25-375 Ratifying the Appealed Special Tax Assessment for property at 828 ENGLEWOOD AVENUE. (File No. J2526R3, Assessment No. Page 1 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final 258593) (Amend to delete) ## Sponsors: ## Bowie Delete the assessment. Mike Hemenway, owner, appeared via phone Moermond: I appreciate you sent in background information that is helpful. The Department of Safety and Inspections doesn’t’ have a complete file on the cleanup so lacking that I’ll recommend deletion of the assessment. Hemenway: that will sure help. Thank you so much for looking it over. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 4 ## RLH TA 25-415 Ratifying the Appealed Special Tax Assessment for property at 476 ## SHERBURNE AVENUE. (File No. J2601R2, Assessment No. 268603) (Amend to delete) ## Sponsors: ## Bowie Delete the assessment. No one appeared. Moermond: this is tall grass and weeds and we don’t have the original notice issued in June 2025 so it is part of the bulk of the missing records. Recommend deletion. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 ## Staff Reports 5 ## SR 25-169 ## Review the Ratifying of the Appealed Special Tax Assessment for ## property at 872 RONDO AVENUE. (File No. J2522R1, Assessment No. 268500) ## Sponsors: ## Bowie Delete the assessment. Voicemail for Amanda Mickelson left at 9:27 am: this is Marcia Moermond from St. Paul City Council calling you about your appealed tax assessment for 872 Rondo. We’ve continued this a couple of times due to the data breach. They still haven’t reloaded the records for this property, but due to the length of time and lack of records I’ll recommend deletion of the assessment. ## Received and Filed ## Special Tax Assessments-ROLLS ## RLH AR 26-316 Ratifying the assessment for Equipment and Labor for Clean Up service during September to November 2025 (File No. J2601A, ## Assessment No. 268501) ## Sponsors: ## Noecker Page 2 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Referred to the City Council due back on 6/3/2026 ## RLH AR 26-327 Ratifying the assessment for Sidewalk Snow and Ice Removal in ## January 2026 (File No. J2601S, Assessment No. 268502) ## Sponsors: ## Noecker Referred to the City Council due back on 6/3/2026 11:00 a.m. Hearings ## Summary & Vehicle Abatement Orders ## RLH SAO 26-328 ## Appeal of Michael Corcoran to a Summary Abatement Order and Vehicle Abatement Order at 1478 AMES AVENUE. ## Sponsors: ## Yang Grant to May 8, 2026 for compliance with the VAO and to June 1, 2026 for compliance with SAO. Mike Corcoran, owner, appeared via phone Staff report by Supervisor Lisa Martin: Summary Abatement Order issued to remove and dispose of garbage, rubbish, discarded furniture, appliances, car parts, scrap wood, metal and refuse from trailers and contents from entire property, along with a Vehicle Abatement Order on April 9th, there were 3 vehicles that were written up but when I looked at photos it shows lots of vehicles. Corcoran: more time. There’s only 2 vehicles that aren’t legal, the blue Honda and then the one you have “unknown license plate” for. I had to push it off my trailer so I could use it for another vehicle and then winter came and I got stuck. Basically, it has been a lot of drama for me to get anything done with taking care of our 5 year old grandson. I can’t get anything done. My wife has been sick, my daughter almost died. Now it is nicer weather, so I have hope to get things done. All the other vehicles are legal. If I park on the street, my wife’s car got stolen 3 times last year. My trailer was out there and they tried stealing that. Tried to steal my silver truck. I found it down the street where it ran into a tree. It is always back and forth from the street. I understand everyone says get rid of them, but I can’t do that at this time. We got rid of one and one trailer. My daughter has moved in so that’s another vehicle here. I’m doing my best. Everything else I was attempting to inventory and then winter came again. The wood and the metal, a lot of it is loaded onto 2 trailers. I’m trying to prepare to do this back addition really well and the problem is I’m really picky and everything has to be perfect before I can get rolling. I got people coming through and they steal my tools so I get backed up a lot. Lisa knew I was taking charge of my special needs grandson last fall. She said call if I need help. Best I could do was let her know where I was at with everything. Then my wife said a gentleman came over. We’re just really hung up on so many other things also I don’t know what to tell you. I’m doing what I can to not have you take responsibility for all my stuff. It is my responsibility. Any consideration from you I would appreciate. Martin: I understand, we had all of last year to get this resolved. I did hear from the Page 3 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final building official is the back deck doesn’t have a foundation, same with the steel structure. We’ll be issuing orders to remove the back deck, the sheds and the steel structure. None of those meet building code. Orders are forthcoming. That means the shed and all its contents. Corcoran: that back deck is legal. It has all the proper piers. Way more than necessary. I have already spoken with Jason about all that. I have drawings for him. My plan is to start using the piers. I spoke with someone in that other department where you get the permits. To get a permit to extend the deck out further back. I mentioned that to Jason also. That whole deck is legal as far as the piers are concerned. Moermond: let’s set the deck stuff aside and focus on the orders. I was hearing a heads-up from Ms. Martin about a problem with the deck. It isn’t acceptable to me unless there’s a permit with sign-offs, but it isn’t what is in front of me today. What I do have is a cleanup order and a vehicle order. You started commenting on the vehicles. The blue Honda lacks tabs, Corcoran: that’s up to date now. Moermond: what about being undrivable? Parked on unapproved surface? Flat tires. Corcoran: yes, I can move that one. It is from way back. I’ve taken parts from it for my daughter’s car. It is hard for me to throw good stuff away, things are different than they were 25 years ago. Moermond: we had a previous appeal, so I know you know the rules. It was taken care of and a lot of grace given last time we talked, but I’m not feeling nearly as patient since we’ve been through this already. The silver Toyota appears undriveable and the tarped vehicle, tabs, looks undrivable, wrong surface. Have you got tabs for it? Corcoran: that’s the one from before. I can tab it but it isn’t drivable. I wanted to get it in the garage so it is legal. I was in the process of doing that then winter came. If I told you everything going on you would understand why. Moermond: I appreciate that, but I talk to a lot of people and life happens to everyone, and so did winter, and we still have to keep going. It is Minnesota. You’re going to get on top of that? Corcoran: I don’t concern myself with other people’s things, but I’ve been really up against a wall with this special needs child, my wife’s heart problems, my daughter almost died. I have to make sure I release my wife of the burden because she’s in bad shape. We’re trying the best we can, and it is working out. Moermond: I don’t mean to be patronizing, but you are able to make the mess, you need to clean it up. Corcoran: I’m constantly chasing people around who are dumping things around here. I just chased someone up the street to get their plates. I’ve done this for years, I get distracted a lot trying to do my thing here too. I look around my neighborhood and if you look at my neighbor’s yards they’re worse than mine but I don’t complain about other people. Just because my daughter in law had something in her mind how about I was cleaning up. I had a huge cottonwood tree back there. I removed my lilacs. It has all come to a screeching halt. Page 4 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Moermond: it really strikes me you aren’t worrying about other people’s stuff but you are chasing people down, but the problem on your own property that is going to cost you cash money to clean up. Corcoran: the problem is we call the police and they say they don’t care. I called about the lots across the street and the next day Anthony came out and did something. I’m trying to be helpful. Moermond: let’s focus on your yard. Orders were issued April 9 with a deadline of the 16th. It is the 21st, so a May 8th deadline for the vehicles. The cleanup on the yard, not the structures, the cluttered storage, etcetera, we need to pick a deadline. I’m trying to be reasonable, let’s go to June 1 for the yard cleanup. There will be no extensions beyond these dates unless the Council gives one to you. Expect to get orders on the structures in the near future. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 ## RLH SAO 26-319 Appeal of Michelle Skinner to a Summary of Abatement Order at 110 ## RUTH STREET. ## Sponsors: ## Johnson Deny the appeal as conditions existed at the time orders were issued, but the nuisance is now abated and the matter resolved. Moermond: we have the appeal and when staff went to check before the hearing they found it abated. Deny the appeal noting it has been abated. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 ## Making Finding on Nuisance Abatements ## RLH SAO 26-3310 Making finding on the appealed nuisance abatement ordered for 412 WHITE BEAR AVENUE NORTH in Council File RLH SAO 26-25. ## Sponsors: ## Johnson Nuisance is not currently abated, but will be rechecked by staff on May 4th for compliance. Shannon Strain, tenant, appeared Tyron Spann, tenant, appeared Staff update by Supervisor Lisa Martin: compliance was April 20 to have tabs on the black Chevy Camaro. Has flat tires, June of 2024 tabs, appeared inoperable, parked on an unapproved surface, as well as a vehicle parked on the apron, which could be towed at any time. Strain: its parked in the driveway to the end of the retaining wall. It isn’t blocking the sidewalk. Spann: it is small enough to fit sideways in the driveway. It is on the concrete driveway, not in the dirt. Someone is picking on us. Martin: it is parked across the apron, you can see White Bear Avenue behind the car. Page 5 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Moermond: so it has to be on the house side of the sidewalk. That leaves the flat tires and tabs issue. Strain: we’re on our way to get the tabs right now. We did move it. Spann: I have 24” rims, low profile. I have one flat tire; they’re $250 I haven’t bought it yet. Moermond: you’re saying you’re on the way to get tabs right now, that’s great. In terms of the tire, that needs to be taken care of, it obviously isn’t drivable with a tire like that. Spann: I can drive it slow to move it. I’ll move it to the public street after I get tabs. Moermond: I was expecting I would need to report to Council tomorrow, but it missed the agenda so I won’t be able to report back until May 6th, so I’ll ask staff to go out on Monday May 4th and everything needs to be exactly in order or I will ask the Council to allow for the cleanup to happen and vehicle(s) towed. Hopefully a couple weeks will do the trick. Spann: that works. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 1:00 p.m. Hearings ## Special Tax Assessments-Garbage Layovers ## RLH TA 26-9811 Deleting the Appealed Special Tax Assessment for property at 1093 ## BREEN STREET. (File No. CG25Q3B4-1, Assessment No. 260135) ## Sponsors: ## Yang Delete the assessment. Staff report by Jillian Barden: the property owner contacted us because it’s a Category 2 Vacant Building billed for service. Public Works delivered a cart in 2025 January but it was a Vacant Building in May 2025 so we recommend removing the assessment. Moermond: recommend deleting the assessment, though I believe it is a Category 1 Vacant Building. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/6/2026 1:30 p.m. Hearings ## Orders To Vacate - Fire Certificate of Occupancy 12 ## RLH VO 26-21 Appeal of George Leske, Occupant, to a Fire Inspection Report (which includes vacate) at 1609 SAINT ANTHONY AVENUE, APARTMENT 5. Page 6 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final ## Sponsors: ## Coleman Layover to LH May 5, 2026 at 1:30 p.m. to discuss findings of April 29th inspection. George Leske, occupant, appeared [Moermond gives background of appeals process] Staff report by Supervisor Keith Demarest: this is a 5 unit residential complex owned by Midway Green Developments LLC. Last full Certificate of Occupancy inspection was done February 2023. This complaint was received Nov 2025 and inspection done March 26, 2026 by Inspector Koehler. April 15 notice of appeal was received and a tentative reinspection is scheduled for Thursday. At the March 26 inspection multiple items found: holes in walls,, broken screens, windows lacking 2 panes, stair issues, exterior stairs need repair. All interior walls and ceiling must be maintained unit 3 and 4 have large cut outs in wall and ceiling. Permits are required for replacement of windows. Due to the totality of that report he notes it may be pending revocation for unit or units. Moermond: reviewing photos I saw a lot of damaged windows and doors with particle board all over. Fire damage? Demarest: I don’t see any note of fire damage, so not sure how that occurred. Moermond: you are in one of the units, what is going on with the owner? It is kind of in bad shape? Leske: since they’ve been out, he’s finally got on the ball and has got just about everything they want done. They are building a deck in the back and they put new doors on in the front this morning. The other 2 apartments that was tore out with no one living in there, they got the sheetrock all done, ready for painting. The basement they have all sheet rocked. All the windows they had out are back in and put metal around them. I’ve lived there 15 years. Moermond: you wrote he needs more time to finish. You’re speaking on his behalf as a tenant? Leske: I don’t want to move. It is hard for me, I don’t have any relatives up there. I rely on one neighbor lady. I had some health issues a few years back and have health devices in the house. It is convenient. It is 100% better than when the inspector was there. He’s trying to get stuff done. I guess he had trouble for a while getting permits. I don’t think it needs to be closed down now, he’s working steadily on it. There are six units also, not 5. Moermond: he had an appointment for an inspection on Thursday, but normally when an appeal is filed they put a hold on the next inspection. Where are we at with that appointment? Demarest: we would typically send a new notice of inspection with new date. Moermond: let’s lay this over 2 weeks and plan for an inspection late next week, and we can talk about it May 5th. Leske: I live on a fixed income and he’s giving me a break on rent as it is. I have another place I could stay but it is $400 more a month. Moermond: you can stay where you are for now, and hopefully this will be wrapped Page 7 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final up or we will map a path forward. Laid Over to the Legislative Hearings due back on 5/5/2026 13 ## RLH VO 26-22 Appeal of Frank Andrew to a Fire Inspection Correction Notice (which includes condemnation) at 484 ROBERT STREET NORTH. ## Sponsors: ## Noecker Layover to LH May 5, 2026 at 1:30 pm for further discussion. Frank Andrew, tenant and owner of business, appeared Beau RaRa, friend of Andrew, appeared Staff report by Fire Manager AJ Neis: this is a mercantile storefront below. I received a complaint back from the St. Paul Police Department March 9th. They reported there was potentially an operation being used as some type of night club at the property. It is currently zoned for mercantile occupancy. I went out April 9 and there was a couple subsequent visits from Tobacco. I did the inspection and met with the property owner and one employee. Requested entry into the basement and was accompanied by Sargent Arndtson. I observed everything that lead me to believe it is in use as some type of night club or entertainment venue. St. Paul Police Department had photos showing red stations stored. I observed a “dancing pole”, lounge chairs, tables and chairs, evidence of hookah use, alcohol in a visible fridge with glass front, DJ equipment, desk for podcasting. Occupant load would require a second exit base don square footage. I met with appellant and told him of the safety concerns and about the code analysis requirement but any events or parties need to immediately cease until it is brought up to code. They stopped into our office to discuss and was very cooperative and understanding and advised of the right to appeal. Received full cooperation and hospitality on site. Moermond: tell me more about what is allowed in a mercantile space vs. assembly. Neis: exactly, mercantile use have very different code requirements. Before we can enforce codes we have to know the property occupancy type. The occupancy load for a store is much less than an assembly, so different codes come into place such as number of exists, door swings, possibly fire or sprinkler system, exit lighting, emergency lighting, perhaps even ADA accessibility issues. The list can go on and on. Thus, why a code analysis is required. Moermond: mercantile versus office for operating a business. Professional versus sales business. Neis: occupant load as a general. Mercantile occupant load is 60 gross square feet per 1 occupant. That’s quite a bit of space. For assembly that occupant load factor can go almost down to 7, nearly a 10:1 ratio. So a 600 square foot mercantile space max people is 6, but a 600 square foot assembly space you could increase to as high as 85. That’s why you have to know which codes to apply and proper occupancy. I’m sure we can all agree six people in a basement with one exit is must different than 85 people evacuating in an emergency. Moermond: sounds like you have a podcast situation? Andrew: Dedicated Dance for Life nonprofit and podcast space. I usually use it for that. I didn’t think I was doing anything wrong, but I admitted to having an dance there was about 10 people there when the St. Paul Police Department came. I do use the Page 8 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final red rope to separate it from my convenience store. The party was maybe a little over but it is generally used for my nonprofit and podcast. He said I can keep that, but I have to remove the tables and the pool table, and I already took the pole down. I never used it for a party or night club, it was strictly for my staff. The day the police came they said someone called a report of a burglary. I got the police report and it said there was a report of a guys creaming, it was my brother who didn’t let them in. I do keep a few beers in my fridge, but there was no hard liquor. We basically use it for my nonprofit. We never threw any parties or charged anyone to get in. Moermond: is there any kind of gathering other than Dedicated Dads? Andrew: no, other than my podcast. I may have one or 2 guests. I have cordless mics and sometimes we shoot pool. Neis: the big challenge with the fire code, unfortunately the fire code doesn’t dictate how many people can be down there by limiting it to what an owner agrees too. It is strictly square footage. Even if it is only 10 people code requires you to accommodate that people. Also, unless you have a liquor license, you can’t have it there even if it is for personal use on a podcast. If things are set up traditionally, where it could be used as an assembly, the other challenge is if the gentleman moves out and things get left behind it can be assumed it was an approved use moving forward. If I see what I see as a fire code official in there, I have to write it up based on what any reasonable and prudent inspector would see and follow the code. Moermond: just reviewed chapter 426 Cabaret Licenses and the initial assessment is it probably wouldn’t work because of exiting requirements, but it would need to be discussed more deeply with licensing. I can picture some mercantiles with cabaret licenses. Neis: March 8 2026 at 9:42 pm officers were dispatched when officers arrived there was a male standing at the door who wouldn’t let anyone in and said store was closed. It was observed there was a metal detector, red ropes/stanchions, they could hear music coming from inside and women were walking around and a female entered the process as officers left. There are some photos with red stanchions in place. Is it normal you provide metal detection to— Andrew: if you went to my store right now you’d see “no guns allowed” and when you go down the steps there is another one. I will make sure anyone coming to my store is safe and no one has a weapon. Moermond: so if I was to go to buy a pop right now I’d get wanded? Andrew: no, because it wasn’t a Dedicated Dad event downstairs. The store is upstairs. Moermond: I was just hearing that the wanding was done at the door. Not for going downstairs. Andrew: the store is upstairs. You have to go to the store to get to the basement. That’s why I have the ropes, to separate the store from the basement. So people don’t try and go into the store. Moermond: they get wanded at the entrance? Was the store closed at that time? Andrew: yes. The event we were doing people were bringing in new guests and had different ideas and all that. When we do events like that we do search everyone. We Page 9 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final don’t charge to get in, we don’t serve liquor, it was just an event with music and people giving their opinions on the nonprofit. The wand was given to me, they were throwing it away, so I took it. I didn’t go purchase it. Moermond: the police mentioned it. In your appeal you just wrote about the podcast as a consideration. Nothing about Dedicated Dads, which is fine. In terms of the podcast, I’m not having concerns about the podcast at all. You can play pool and do whatever you want for that. In terms of gatherings I hear Mr. Neis’s concerns about more than a few people being there in terms of exiting. Neis: technically yes, if it is a podcast, down there with one or two guests doing a show is similar to officing out of there to do cash handling for his store. Any type of gathering where any potential alcohol, anything other than the environment having right here, wouldn’t be permissible without a change in use. This is a good example of what a podcast may look like in that scenario. RaRa: let’s say he had an employee meeting once a month in the basement, like 14 people, would that be permissible? Neis: are we having a meeting at 10 pm with loud music and alcohol? No. If we’re going down and saying we’re talking about last month’s sales, sure. RaRa: first I was hearing about fire code and the number of bodies, then I was thinking about a 7 pm pizza party for employee of the month, would it have the use issue? Neis: it could, potentially. If you’re having to wand your own employees I would argue that isn’t an employee function. RaRa: I understand if it “looks like and it sounds like” but I know Mr. Andrew from a nonprofit that I was working at and he has recruited and tried to cross collaborate with Dreaming Restorative Futures. I just want to name that because I feel like it is relevant and important. Andrew: I am a single father, my 13 year old son stays with me along with my 17 year old nephew after my sister passed away. I have a TikTok page with over 20,000 followers called Dedicated Dads for Life. That’s what it is about, helping fathers, even within the prison system, keep their kids on the right track until they are out of prison. We’re working with our landlord on using some of the vacant rooms above the store. It is a powerful movement fathers need right now. Dedicated Dads sponsors Being Smart is Cool, my son’s brand, and we’re trying to make a difference. Moermond: I’d like to look at this a little bit more. If we’re talking about a podcast and a few people and a pool table, I don’t’ have an issue with that. Threading the needle about Dedicated Dads and the number of people and the hours and so on. In terms of the space being used, having a meal or snack away from the store I don’t see an issue with. Regular everyday business use, I have no issues with. I think the having music at employee gathering may be the tipping point and I need to think about that more. That may be the trigger more for people on the outside, which makes it seem like an event. Do you have any events planned in the next few weeks? Andrew: I cancelled everything .One for my son and one for father’s day because I didn’t know what was going on. Moermond: and, we don’t yet. I’ll make some calls and learn more for my own sake and read a bit closer than I did on the fly today. Page 10 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Laid Over to the Legislative Hearings due back on 5/5/2026 3:00 p.m. Hearings ## Water Bill Appeals ## RLH WB 26-214 Appeal of Farid Freddy Jiryis, dba Maryland Amoco BP, to a Water Service Bill at 1198 WHITE BEAR AVENUE NORTH. Reduce bill from $1,286 to $1050.00. Freddy Jiryis, manager, appeared [Moermond gives background of appeals process] Staff report by Derek Olson: we stopped and found the meter was frozen and the bottom was broken. Due to the water being off we asked if they wanted another meter going in or no further charges until a meter goes back in. It goes back to the shop and is inspected for damage, and then CSR creates a last bill with any damaged charges. We created the bill February 6th. We won’t bill any further but we received a call from the manager and there was a dispute about charges because we didn’t let them know there was damage to the meter when we were there. After talking through it, we offered a hearing. The total is $1,286. Moermond: looks like meter failed from freezing pipes? Jiryis: this building hasn’t been used for years. For years we’ve been paying for water for not using. We never looked into it. They never had any scheduled maintenance since they own it. Throughout the years they’ve been charging just for having a meter, even if we aren’t using it, which I understand those are the rules. When we let him walk in to uninstall, which we’d requested for 3.5 months, finally we got something scheduled. They took the meter and left. If the meter is damaged and there is a problem with the property you let me use you should let me know right then and there. I’m not questioning their integrity, but the only way we found out was the bill. No explanation, no photos, nothing. Which leads me to question, you are charging me this much money and don’t have the courtesy to tell me about the damage? We have a problem with the reading, the damage is total replacement. How can you take a read in for total replacement and then come and ask me to pay for it. If the meter is accurate, then it is working. Tronson: you were charged only for the body; there are two part to a water meter, the register and body. You weren’t charged for the register. Jiryis: if I am going to pay for something damaged and I’ve been paying for years, either you are going to refund my money or we call it a wash. Moermond: let’s roll back and talk about the charge. In general, all utilities charge using two parts of a formula, one is access to the system and then another charge for the volume of service. Sounds like you were billed for access but not any water passing through. Olson: yes. Jiryis: Xcel has a record of their meter and inspect on a regular basis. If there’s a problem they’ve informed the property owner. Page 11 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Olson: one of the reason it wasn’t inspected because it hasn’t used any water since 2023. You’re being charged for the meter simply being there. Jiryis: you are required to have a maintenance log, it is your machine on our property. Olson: we look at a meter from a reading standpoint. Nov 2023 we set the water off. No usage. You’re charged base fees. Your usage shows 0 every month, it doesn’t need maintenance even if it is showing zero. Moermond: you are articulating an expectation of periodic systems versus the monitoring system they use that would trigger a service. I hear that. Jiryis: we have two meters and they’ve never inspected the other one either. Moermond: I’m not having heartburn over periodic service. If you’ve been paying since 2024? Jiryis: I took over in 2025. The owner was debating reopening the car wash, back and forth. Finally I told him we have to cut our losses and take the meter out. That was September 2025. I finally got someone to come in January. Moermond: the bills have been like this since Jiryis: he left with the meter and then sent me the bill with no explanation and we weren’t aware of any damage. That’s where the problem is. Tronson: they are asked to avoid confrontation. Not everyone is friendly. They’re instructed to not say anything until we have everything we need to know. Olson: you are very friendly, and would have welcomed this conversation, but not everyone is. Some people get very hostile, and there may be a crack or a register is damaged, and we don’t know until we get it back to the shop. If we would have told you one number for a broken meter and then get back to the shop and find out the register is broken too, and you would have got a bill with a higher number. You would have called upset about that then. Moermond: I’m not seeing a record of a call in September. I see a record of one in January. Jiryis: we called CSR they transferred me, and we left messages and no one called back, or someone answers and says someone will call to schedule and no one does. Olson: we did have someone touching the account on October 9th. They looked at this account in 2025, I don’t know why. Moermond: what are the charges for water connection from October 2025 to present? Olson: 3 months of 17.69 and then January there would have been $82.84 and then a last bill in February for 49.71. Moermond: I credit you called in the fall. That would mean if the meter would have been removed at that time you wouldn’t have had connection fees those 3 months, but you still would have had the damaged meter charge. Let’s discount the damaged meter charge with those three bills which brings us to $1050.00 Page 12 ## City of Saint Paul April 21, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Referred to the Board of Water Commissioners due back on 5/12/2026 Page 13 ## City of Saint Paul