--- title: Minutes - Final --- 15 West Kellogg Blvd. ## Saint Paul, MN 55102 ## City of Saint Paul ## Minutes - Final ## Legislative Hearings ## Marcia Moermond, Legislative Hearing Officer ## Mai Vang, Hearing Coordinator ## Joanna Zimny, Executive Assistant legislativehearings@ci.stpaul.mn.us 651-266-8585 ## 9:00 AM ## Room 330 City Hall & Court House/Remote Tuesday, May 5, 2026 11:00 a.m. Hearings ## Summary & Vehicle Abatement Orders 1 ## RLH SAO 26-36 Appeal of Victor Thao to a Summary Abatement Order at 685 VAN ## BUREN AVENUE. ## Sponsors: ## Bowie Grant to May 18th for compliance. Victor Thao, owner, appeared via phone [Moermond gives background of appeals process] Staff report by Supervisor Lisa Martin: a Summary Abatement Order was issued April 21, 2026 to remove and properly dispose of scrap wood, fencing, wood panels and miscellaneous debris from entire property and rear near alley. Compliance date of April 28th. Photos in the file. Items between the garage were issued in orders for the neighboring property as well. Thao: I’m disappointed there’s no affirmative action to prevent this from happening again. I would like time to confirm my property. The area between my garage and neighboring house, I want time to be able to find a land surveyor to determine if that’s my property or not. I’m not sure it is my property. If this IS my property I feel like this some type of trespassing and vandalism. Moermond: is yours the blue or white garage? Thao: it is yellow. To the left of the yellow building is my garage. Moermond: are you thinking you own up to their garage? Thao: the blue is the neighboring property and I don’t know if it is my trash or not. Moermond: buildings are supposed to be no closer than 3 feet from the property line. So there should be six feet at least between the two buildings. You could assume the three feet you are responsible for. A surveyor isn’t cheap, and I won’t wait for that to happen before this garbage is picked up. The price of cleaning this up is also Page 1 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final negligible compared to a price of a survey. I’m going to go with putting a deadline in place. If I gave you a deadline in two weeks that seems sufficient to deal with the hauler doing a bulky pickup for the larger items, and then the smaller things can go into your cart over the next couple of weeks. I will recommend a deadline of May 18th. Whatever is not done will be reported to me and we will have a discussion on the 19th. If it isn’t done the Council can order the Department of Safety and Inspections clean it up to resolve the matter. Thao: I sent a photo on the 15th. And there’s been way more trash piled up from April 15th until now. I’d like to send those photos into you. Moermond: my main concern is the Department of Safety and Inspections’ photos the day they wrote the orders, April 21, any photos preceding that date while I appreciate it, I need to work with the 21 moving forward. If additional things show up we’ll certainly take that into account. We’ll work with you with the items there on the 21st. Martin: the reality is if it is on your property you are ultimately responsible. Often, we see people put up no dumping signs, or under video surveillance, motion lights, fake cameras that can help deter some of that dumping. Thao: this abatement order has already been taken care of. Moermond: okay. If items have come since then, the Department of Safety and Inspections could write fresh orders, but you’ve taken care of the items you’ve appealed from April 21. Thao: the trash bags and the gutters have been moved, cleaned. Everything in the photo was cleaned up but there is still existing trash in that gap between my garage and the neighbor’s house. Moermond: they’ll look at the photo from the 21 and see if those items are gone. If it is, that matter is resolved, but they could write new orders. Anticipate it is still your responsibility to clean up. Thao: so I should expect someone to come inspect the property? Moermond: Ms. Martin would you want to send someone before the 18th? Martin: he can certainly call the inspector on the orders to see if he can swing by before the 18th. Otherwise, we will reinspect the 18th. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/13/2026 ## Making Finding on Nuisance Abatements 2 ## RLH SAO 26-41 Second Making finding on the appealed nuisance abatement ordered for 399 BLAIR AVENUE in Council File RLH SAO 26-16. (Legislative Hearing May 12, 2026) ## Sponsors: ## Bowie Layover to LH May 12, 2026 at 11 am for further discussion. Currently the nuisance is partially abated. (CPH May 13). Page 2 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Nyar Pwo, owner, appeared via phone Mitch Hadler, attorney, appeared via phone Moermond: Mr. Hadler, are you the legal representative for Mr. Pwo? Hadler: yes, I will represent him. Moermond: there was an April 1 deadline to be addressed, and we folded the items that weren’t complete into a May 1 deadline? Sort of a de facto extension. How are we doing with the items in those deadlines? Staff update by Supervisor Lisa Martin: he isn’t in compliance with either deadline. There is still outside storage including scrap wood, pallets, racking, a metal barrel, a bunch of debris behind the garage in the yard. There is about 7 vehicles in the driveway. Missing parts, flat tires, I’m unsure of operational condition of these vehicles or if they’re registered to the property. They do have no trespassing photos posted, but there are photos taken by the inspector. Hadler: they tried to get most of the vehicles removed. Do you have the original photos? Moermond: yes, I do have those. Hadler: you’ve noticed that substantial progress has been made. Moermond: I notice that some progress has been made, and some progress has been lost. It looks to me like there are perhaps additional debris and some items, but that’s not what we’re talking about today. Tell me about the progress and how it relates to the April 1 and May 1 deadlines. Hadler: we’ve removed a substantial number of vehicles and debris from the property. I don’t think there’s any new debris. The balance of the vehicles Mr. Pwo had someone to buy them and then they backed out, so we’re trying to take care of that with a new purchaser or removal party. He’s working towards that. We also went down the Planning and Economic Development and started a file for the remodeling and permit for the porch addition. We plan on doing the drawings for that within the next 30-60 days. With respect to the tile out there, it will be used for the patio install. There was a request to remove the tile from the pallets and move them inside. They’re very heavy and will be used on the patio and part of the interior. Moving them is difficult. We can cover them with a tarp. They’re behind the fence so they aren’t visible. To move them around at this time is counterproductive. Then they will be in compliance once they’re installed. I’m requesting another 30 days on all the deadlines. We’re not objecting to the zoning requirement. It will be complied with, we just need more time to do so. We’ve made substantial progress already. Moermond: there have been deadlines in place. The original orders were issued February 2nd. I conducted a hearing on February 17th. Gave a chance for Mr. Pwo to provide feedback. It went to Council March 11. We’re 2 months out from the Council vote, and really 3 months out from the original orders. I took deadlines all the way out to June 1. The April 1 deadline was already moved to May 1 so I’m struggling with compliance. Construction materials the deadline is June 1. The permit that needs to be pulled is building permit, not a zoning permit. Construction requires a building permit. Page 3 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Hadler: it is behind a fence, there’s nothing unsafe. There’s no fire hazard. The are going to comply, but they need time to do that. We also needed the weather to cooperate. This started in winter. We opened a file for the permit at the planning department. That will take time for that process as well. Moermond: you’re talking about future deadlines now, and I don’t see any reason to change those. Quite frankly, although it is MN, taking care of vehicles by licensing and making them operable, that isn’t weather dependent over a couple of months. On May 13th I’ll indicate it is partially abated and will authorize Department of Safety and Inspections to pursue abating the nuisance. Hadler: we’re asking you to change your recommendation. It isn’t going to hurt anything. You’re talking about procedural things that aren’t related to health and safety. Moermond: this isn’t me putting deadlines into place. If you would have showed on March 11th you could have asked for that. This is me following up on the deadlines they set. Hadler: there’s no safety problem. It is more a cosmetic issue at this point, isn’t it? There’s no real danger. Everything is contained behind a fence. It isn’t unreasonable to give a longer deadline as long as progress is being made, which it is. I know you want things done, but more time is just needed. You can’t just call someone up and pull everything out of there. Moermond: it was an additional 90 days. Hadler: it is very expensive. Right down the street from me there’s a light post that hasn’t’ been repaired for 2 years by the City, but yet you’re asking this man to make progress. Moermond: April 1: scrap metal, tow truck, miscellaneous debris, non-construction material. May 1: vehicles removed or licensed operable and have vital parts. I don’t think those items are onerous. There is a later deadline which we haven’t followed up on yet. If you get a building permit and things are underway, that’s fine, August 1 is the deadline for the patio. There was quite an extension granted and 90 days from the original issuance of the orders. The Council may look at this differently and that would be your next stop. Hadler: can I have this recalled for later today so I can talk to my client? Moermond: we’ll put this on my calendar again next week so you have time to talk to your client. Pwo: when the inspector is here, I requested him to be with me and talk to them to see the best way I can do this. What happened with that? Martin: Mr. Kedrowski has been dealing with the owner for the last 2 years with all the vehicles. We don’t normally set up times for exterior inspections. We set up clearly in the previous hearings what needed to be done. Vehicles have to be operable, licensed, can’t be scrapping or running a business. They have to be registered to the property. Pretty standard. Pwo: everything in my yard is collector cars. Whoever comes I want them to let me Page 4 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final know, I don’t want them to come without my permission. That’s why I requested them to be with me. Moermond: has someone gone in his yard? Martin: no, photos are taken from the public right-of-way, no one went in his yard. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/13/2026 3 ## RLH SAO 26-34 Second Making finding on the appealed nuisance abatement ordered for 2016 FREMONT AVENUE in Council File RLH SAO 26-21. ## Sponsors: ## Johnson The nuisance is partially abated. Grant extension to June 1, 2026 for compliance with all orders. Mark Puhala, owner, appeared via phone Moermond: we’re following up on previous deadlines given for addressing items in the yard. Staff update by Supervisor Lisa Martin: the inspector was out and sent in updated photos. Some progress made, but we have a large tree trunk not cut up yet, still on the ground, branches still, damage now to the shed now some of the items have been removed. We also have a tall grass and weeds order that will need to be taken care of. The stakes finally were removed from the boulevard and the yard. Not in compliance, but getting there. Moermond: we have an April 3 deadline for the vehicle, which was done. Remove all stakes and fencing from yard and right-of-way. Martin: wasn’t done on time, but it is now. Moermond: May 1 we have removal of brush, logs, broken garbage cans, Christmas tree. I was hearing brush and logs are still there. Martin: a for sale sign. Moermond: miscellaneous debris still around. Puhala: I’m confused because my partner put that in the shed. I’ll do that today, that confuses me. Moermond: you should have to June 1 for the tall grass and weeds. The saw horses, Ms. Martin? Broken pots? Martin: no, but we do have some type of bench or table and a footstool next to the for sale sign. Random wood in the back yard. That’s in the fourth photo. Puhala: the footstool is in use it is for sitting or standing on when we work with the trees. Am I not allowed to have my tables and chairs now? Martin: that is indoor furniture; it was part of the original orders. Page 5 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Moermond: when you aren’t using it then it should go inside shed or garage. Puhala: the table, hammocks, and furniture have to be stored when we aren’t using them? Moermond: there’s exterior and interior furniture. If is meant to be outside, like a lawn chair or a hammock, that isnt’ a problem. Interior furniture, sure, you can use it outside, but it shouldn’t get wet since it is upholstered, the wood would rot eventually. I’m not getting heartburn over those things. I’m more concerned about the brush, logs, broken items. The other items with the May 1 deadline, what are you thinking? You have some done, some not. Puhala: I’m moving brush. I was told to put the trunk on top of the pallets. I am confused how that doesn’t work anymore. Similar with the stakes, I was told you could keep them, then later was told I can’t. Is this where the rules got mixed up, or there’s no leeway? Moermond: it was mentioned because it hadn’t been split into firewood yet. The conversation was clear in my memory an di just checked the minutes and it says the yard and right-of-way need to have the stakes removed. The letter on Mrach 27th also says that. Puhala: I’m not allowed to build my fence anymore? Moermond: you have the stakes and posts up for a while. Right now, they’re presented as a hazard. Puhala: that makes sense. They were solving an issue I had late summer. Finish the project before I let stuff sit, I understand that. I am behind on the debris, but I did send an email last night and now my water heater corroded, so I’m trying to figure out how to upgrade my electrical panel to install an electric water heater. We have no hot water, and a roommate with a child, so I’m in the middle of that crisis while dealing with these cleanup deadlines. I’m wondering if I can get an extension on those. Moermond: you’ve addressed some of the items in these orders. What I’d like to see is for you deal with the brush. I’ll recommend to the Council to give to June 1 for other items except the brush. You also have to June 1 for tall grass and weeds. Puhala: we’re planning on turning over a lot of the yard, will having black dirt be a problem? We’re wanting to kind of terrace the yard. Moermond: cut it down. Mow it. Start turning it over. What is there is done with its attempt to be native planting. Puhala: I’ve been trying to use the long grass as mulch to help prevent some weeds. Can I get an extension passed June 1 for the tall grass and weeds so I can take care of the water heater? Moermond: mow it. Puhala: understood. Page 6 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Moermond: it isn’t a big commitment of time and energy. June 1 deadline for the things that aren’t complete, along with the tall grass and weeds. Laid Over to the Legislative Hearings due back on 6/2/2026 4 ## RLH SAO 26-18 Second Making finding on the appealed nuisance abatement ordered for 708 HAWTHORNE AVENUE EAST in Council File RLH SAO 26-8. ## Sponsors: ## Yang The nuisance is not abated. Authorize DSI to take action to abate nuisance condition(s). Voicemail for Andrew Eisenhart left at 12:12 pm: this is Marcia Moermond from St. Paul City Council following up with you about the City’s orders for 708 East Hawthorne, and everything is done except the bathtub. That was to be gone or put to use as of May 1. Neither have happened. I’m inclined to recommend the Department of Safety and Inspections can abate it , which would go on the taxes so I encourage you to take care of that. We’llr each out to your tenant now. Voicemail left for tenant at 12:14 pm: I am trying to reach Armand McCoy, following up on the property at 708 Hawthorne and we had a May 1 deadline that came and went to bring the yard into compliance. We still have a bathtub propped up against the tree. That was supposed to be removed or put to use, since that hasn’t happened I’ll recommend the Council authorize the Department of Safety and Inspections to remove it. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/13/2026 ## RLH SAO 26-27 5 Second Making finding on the appealed nuisance abatement ordered for 1377 MINNEHAHA AVENUE EAST in Council File RLH SAO 26-19. ## Sponsors: ## Johnson Layover to LH May 26, 2026 at 11 am for update on compliance. (CPH 5/27) Mary Skweres, owner, appeared via phone Joseph Garrick, occupant, appeared via phone Staff report by Supervisor Lisa Martin: the tarp/tent was removed. The entire driveway needs to be cleaned up. Skweres: the stuff against my fence are concrete forms he uses for work. I don’t know what you want me to do, they’re up against the fence. I thought we were just talking about the driveway itself. Moermond: the orders say scrap metal, inoperable vehicle, miscellaneous debris from the property. So I’d put that in the category of construction materials. [Joeseph Garrick was added to call] Garrick: our driveway needs to be repoured for concrete. Those will be removed once that’s done. Hopefully in the next 2 or 3 weeks. I can get them moved for now until we use them. Page 7 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Moermond: I’m looking at photo that shows behind the fence there is quite a lot of material up to maybe 10’. A topper, a wheelbarrow, a ladder. Garrick: yep, there’s some ladders. Moermond: those things appeared in the previous set of orders since they appear to be construction materials in part. The ladder and wheelbarrow can certainly be stored outside. Anything to note? Martin: 7 or 8 feet in the air isn’t properly stored. On top of a garage or shed isn’t acceptable. They can be outside, but they do need to be stored properly. Garrick; no problem, I can do that. Moermond: we have a lot done but not all the things you had in mind? Martin: the whole driveway we have buckets and barrels, construction debris. Make sure you file a site plan with the City for the driveway. Moermond: you need to make sure it is appropriate distance from the property line. Martin: 4 feet. Moermond: we’re looking mostly at the barrels and some miscellaneous debris. I’m not sure what is going on towards the back. The motorcycle is pointed towards that storage shed area and there’s a big pile of black plastic and that probably needs to go. Garrick: we’re getting it all thrown away. There was so much stuff. I understand what you’re talking about. Moermond: you’re ready for your trip to twin cities refuse or wherever you go. Garrick: it is getting spendy, but we’re managing. Moermond: there was a May 1 deadline, but I do see good progress. I’ll put this on my calendar for 3 weeks from now and then send something to Council. Today is the 5th, so we’ll talk on the 26th. Garrick: perfect. I’ll be done with jury duty that week. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/27/2026 6 ## RLH SAO 26-40 Second Making finding on the appealed nuisance abatement ordered for 412 WHITE BEAR AVENUE NORTH in Council File RLH SAO 26-25. ## Sponsors: ## Johnson The nuisance is abated and the matter resolved. Moermond: Ms. Martin? Staff report by Supervisor Martin: that is abated and the file closed. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/13/2026 Page 8 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final 1:30 p.m. Hearings ## Orders To Vacate - Fire Certificate of Occupancy 7 ## RLH VO 26-22 Appeal of Frank Andrew to a Fire Inspection Correction Notice (which includes condemnation) at 484 ROBERT STREET NORTH. ## Sponsors: ## Noecker Grant to May 15th for compliance. Frank Andrew, owner, appeared Moermond: we originally had this scheduled for 2 weeks from now, and then I asked for it to be changed to today or last week. The idea was I would look at what would be allowed for Dedicated Dads to have some ability to gather in that space and what would be necessary to accommodate that use. I asked Department of Safety and Inspections to look more deeply into what was happening so I had a better file. I’m going to turn it over to Mr. Neis. Fire Safety Manager AJ Neis: I have photos on the screen that speak for themselves. When speaking with the appellant we were assured this was nothing more than a meeting space. I told him all the meetings we believed it was in use as a night club. We were told that wasn’t’ the case. Then we find social media. Accessory City private lounge, offering alcohol, soliciting money, “this is how you play bingo pimpin”, POS showing taking money and the lounge. And Blow Big bingo night with smoking permitted. I guess I’ll let the photos speak for themselves. Moermond: I understand I am seeing still photos but I had heard there were also videos on Facebook. Here I am thinking it looks a hell of a lot more like a party space with liquor, smoking, charging money for things. It is not dad’s getting together now and then. Especially when I saw the videos staff showed me. I invite any comments you have and let you know where I’m at after I hear those comments. Andrew: When I first put it together that’s what it was for, Dedicated Dads, but I won’t lie I did let people convince me to do other things. I shouldn’t have done that. I can’t do anything other than take responsibility for that. Moermond: but you did lie to me before. Andrew: I did, I’m sorry. Moermond: not a very dedicated dad type of thing. I would think sons would be taught otherwise. Neis: I always assume good intent when I deal with people and was completely lied to under multiple things. I wasn’t concerned about the pool table originally. The basement is condemned period now, other than storage. It should be broom clean. I’ll also be making a referral to the state for the tobacco use. Page 9 ## City of Saint Paul May 5, 2026Legislative HearingsMinutes - Final Moermond: today is May 5. I will ask that the Council put this on the agenda May 13, at which time I will recommend that your deadline for compliance with the amended order is no later than Friday the 15th. If there is an inspection Friday the 15th it should be in compliance. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/13/2026 ## RLH VO 26-218 Appeal of George Leske, Occupant, to a Fire Inspection Report (which includes vacate) at 1609 SAINT ANTHONY AVENUE, APARTMENT 5. ## Sponsors: ## Coleman Grant the appeal of the order to vacate; grant to June 15th for compliance with remaining orders. George Leske, occupant, appeared via phone Moermond: we talked a couple of weeks ago and I understand the Fire Inspector was out to take a look. ## Staff update by Supervisor Keith Demarest: April 29 inspector Koehler reinspected the property. Findings were much more minimal compared to previous inspection. Permit for changing window sized required. Screens on second floor needs repair. Required handrail and guardrail. Those are the remaining corrections after last week. Moermond: sounds like a lot got done? Demarest: he said it was night and day from last inspection to this one. The pending revocation from the last orders weren’t continued to this order. Moermond: so the Department of Safety and Inspections is converting this to correction orders and not pursuing revocation? Demarest: yes. Moermond: the order the property be vacated is going away right now. The property got an extension to work on the repairs, they will go out again at the end of this month and then the Council give another 2 weeks in case there’s something outstanding. So your biggest concern about having to move is addressed; you do not have to. June 15th. Referred to the City Council due back on 5/20/2026 Page 10 ## City of Saint Paul