okay taking roll call chairman Cruz Vice chair kulia Pringle Seth Lor dear Jeremy engl here Nyla golden um Edmond ibraim Nick khik he said he's got next Ray McCoy present uh Nick Muhammad yeah J pick ITC [Music] okay okay uh Carla Robinson she said she she's going to make it okay thank you ver commissioner English could you read the labor it's on the back of the agenda yeah it's on the back of the agenda this it's a this one on the back we acknowledge that much of America including its culture economic growth and development has been made possible by the forced Free Labor Free Labor of enslaved Africans and their descendants who suffered the horror of the transatlantic slave trade Channel slavery J croation and acts of of racism all culating into modern-day disparities we pay homage to these ancestors and ask that they guide the efforts of the reparations commission to correct these RS for those who are living and those who have yet to be born thank you commissioner English the next item of business is the overview of the city budget process at our last meeting we passed a motion to recommend to the city council of General budget request of $500,000 to help facilitate the execution of our work plan at our request J Williams city council chief budet officer was available to attend tonight's meeting and explain to us all the council's process this should further inform additional steps will need and takes to detail our budget request and get it before the council as an action it welcome Jeff thank you can you please tell us a bit about your role at the counil before you get into the interwork the process absolutely uh chair crew and Commissioners thanks for having me here tonight uh as mentioned my name is Jay Wilms I'm the city council Chief budget officer uh and so my daughter refers to me as a counter uh I think she thinks that's what I do um but my role really in the process is as a nonpartisan uh fiscal officer budget officer and so what I do is I help all the council members um in a nonpartisan way so I don't take sides on issues of the day but try to assist them all equally and help them um you know uh develop their budget proposal help them you know uh refine their budget priorities and get their you know budget requests included in the ultimate uh budget that's adopted um and so that's that's kind of my role is to you know listen help facilitate conversations and then help you know them evaluate proposals and and help them you know provide some of the technical aspects uh to to their priorities they're really the Leading Edge and I just support them we can we can go into the overview um now on slide two um so here's here's the outline for what I hope to talk about um first we'll go over just a few brief um you terms so we just disc discuss a couple of important terminology uh then we'll go into roles and responsibilities during the budget process so I'll outline uh the mayor's role the city council's role and then uh the commission's role and then last but not least we'll we're try to tie that all together into budget process and timeline and I think it's important to know some of the key terminology and Concepts and then the roles to really then you know look at the calendar and then and then I think it's easier to to look at that um so we can go to the next slide an operating budget programmatic related expenditures are larger of the two and so is for recurring expenses um utility charges things like that shorter term Focus meaning that uh we have a fiscal year of one year and so the books close out after one year on um a lot of the operating budget projects uh and and the operating budget really funds the routine operations uh in addition there are General financing sources so any state AIDs that come in uh or federal aid that comes in that's not really really restricted in any way um this could also be property tax levy uh so anything anything related to that um is typically how we think of the operating budget um the capital budget on the other P hand is really how we fund buildings and infrastructure so that's where uh we look at you know major projects such as Bridges or buildings or anything that has a you know long useful life and is very expensive so in the capital budget that's typically where we you know Bond or or issue debt to support it so I think for the purposes of your commission um you know you're probably going to recommend most of your uh you know uh make most of your budget recommendations within the operating budget however you know don't forget about the capital budget as something that's also part of the budgeting process because you could also uh potentially make recommendations uh in in that budget um and then the right side of the page really shows the multiple budgets that the city deals with so you know we think of the city budget as kind of the core budget functions Parks and Recreation police and fire um Public Works Etc but we also have uh what are called component units and those are you know in some cases legally distinct entities that the city council and the mayor also have a a hand in budgeting for and setting the budget and those are the library Housing and Redevelopment Authority St Paul Regional Water Services the Court Authority and the River Center convention and visitors bureau so so really I guess you know tied all together I think what you know what the core focus at least in this conversation is probably going to be on the operating budget and on the city Side so can go to the next slide so one key concept um in Public Finance uh in uh you know in for the city and also for the state the federal government is the concept of executive budgeting and so basically that means where the executive branch uh assembles and prepares a budget and then recommends it um to the legislative branch which ultimately sets the budget so just like the federal government you know has the power of the purse but the the president actually recommends the budget and then you know House and Senate pass it and it's signed into law works very similar at the city um so really uh you know the city council is responsible for setting the ultimate budget uh but the mayor uh manages the Departments and recommends it so he leads and coordinates that process and then once he recommends it uh then the city council phase of the budget process uh begins um so this is the separation of powers uh so we can go to the next slide so just you know building on that uh concept the the city Charter outlines the mayor's role in this process and this is the mayor shall prepare and recommend to the council budgets as provided uh in section 10.03 so I refer to the city Charter I like to call that the the city Constitution it's really difficult to change and it really outlines some of the big picture mechanics of how the City Works um so this is a core responsibility of the mayor is to rec the budget but he also has uh several other responsibilities related to implementing and then as we go through the year if there's revenues above what we expected or revenues below he'll recommend uh budget amendments and then the council will vote on those public hearing on the budgets provided in section 10.03 at a time and place announc in advance the council May revise the budgets recommended by the mayor and uh the council shall buy a resolution and ordinance if applicable adopt the budgets and certify tax levies adoption of the budgets shall constitute appropriations of the amounts specified therein as expenditures from the funds indicated um so ultimately the city council acts on the budget they need four votes to uh pass the budget resolution the mayor can veto that budget uh resolution but if the city council has five votes then they can over override that viso um so so that's the mayor role city council role and then we'll go into the administrative code which outlines you know uh the core basis of the community reparations commission and so I've copied the city administrative code in there and the Bolding is mine uh just to call that out um so this the the community reparations Commissions in the part of the administrative code which outlines its powers and duties really serves in an advisory capacity uh to both the mayor and the city council and all policy and budget matters pertaining to reparations within the city through the following activities so you're empowered to make short medium long-term policy program um so that kind of expands the gamut of duration of what these there you know the way that I you know understand this is that recommendations but then there will be ongoing on City programming and budgeting for the dep um this kind of outlines the role in a depice and then we can go into the next which I think is I can't hear whatever this is someone's call so again looking at it from a yearly basis um but you know at the start of the Year we're identifying our priorities uh you know engagement occurs the mayor collects feedback from the community and uh the city council participates that to that in some degree as I mentioned August is when the proposal occurs and then through September October and November uh the City Council budget committee will meet at City Hall and Chambers every Wednesday just about every Wednesday at 10 A.M to review all the departmental budgets um so we'll look at every single budget for each department throughout the city we'll also review the libraries budget the board authority the housing Redevelopment Authority all of them and then city council will make revisions uh around November so if certain things aren't in there or certain things we want to fund less or we want to fund more uh those items are revised into a resolution that the city council adopts in early December and so um you know we we adopt the budget res resolution uh set the property tax levies and then that budget um or that vote sets up the budget for the following year so this year 2024 in the fall what we'll be looking at is the budget for fiscal year 2025 um so that's that's kind of the you know overarching look at the budget does anybody have any questions this might be kind of geeky sure yeah um I'm a Imaging ginormous Excel spreadsheets am I close yeah you're absolutely right it's a lot of Excel spreadsheets I prefer legal size but yeah they can be pretty thick so but the budget's posted online so when um you know when when mayor Carter recommends his budget I encourage you all to go look at it you know there will be a detailed summary of all the things he's proposing in there so yeah Exel is definitely the tool of the trade y I have a question about so this is for the mayor correct but does city council have their own budget then yeah so so um city council every Department within the city government has its own budget um so city council has a budget so I work closely with Miss Bert and um she's part of our Central staff team I'm also part of that Central staff team um so yeah so so her work is funded out of the city Council budget as well as my work is funded out of the city Council budget but the reparations commission can make recommendations on any part of the budget on any part of the city budget so can you clarify Jay um so you're saying that the mayor um you know will present his budget and that would have to go before the city council and that's all happening around August so is so is this budget for 2025 that's correct okay yeah so if we are looking at um you know our activities for 2024 which you know we have some 2024 related activities in there and 2025 when when do we need to have our request kind of into the operations of everything so I would always say the sooner the better however you know your request could could come in after the mayor's proposal you know typically um you know by Charter the mayor recommends the budget but the city council can modify the budget so if if your proposal occurs after the mayor's recommendations that doesn't mean that that the city council won't consider it or it won't be you know considered but you know the sooner the better I think given that you know it's a really quick time frame it goes real fast September through November anything that we recommend though again whether it's before August or during or after that would be for any particular line item for fiscal year 25 that's right and but there is has there been dollars that have been set aside for the activities of this commission due to the fact that it was I don't want to say ratified with pass um what 22 and so there was probably line items for our operations men option as far as our um sens or compensations or whatever yeah there nothing else yeah so so the the commission how it's budgeted so there's you know a staff time capacity aspect and that would be you know out of the city council's budget but then there's also um Appropriations for you stiens and things like that so so you know those sort of operations are funded um but in terms terms of the actual budget you know that would be um you know Veronica's position and then the work that's being done at city council than and and maybe just to add to that I did kind of get a little bit more clarification from J uh earlier today is that essentially you know I guess as we're doing our work plan um the operation budget aspect of it is kind of taken care of and so what we're looking at you know I guess for a better for lack of a better phrase is more kind of programmatic or initiative you know types of support so that's what our work plan would be wrapped around um you said something about Federal funding could you repeat that yeah so you know the city of St Paul receives a number of different federal grants um you know we call them intergovernmental transfers and it's you know basically federal grants uh Federal Appropriations it could be state grants or you know other state Appropriations um I I'm not an expert in the area of what funding uh is available but that might be an Avenue to seek funding you call them intergovernmental transfers yep I have maybe one kind of question so again as we're looking um at our work plan should we assume that this can be a multi-year ask or is this kind of a onshot deal I think based on my interpretation of the administrative code I mean we budget in one year um however I think the charge or at least the way I read that language is that you can look at Short medium long-term recommendations in this area again you know makes your job a little harder um versus a one-year recommendation but I think the you know the way I read the administrative code is that you can you know give expansive [Music] recommendations um aside from the um legislative Aid position and the stiens is there money available for this commission this year so not not in 2024 there there wouldn't be money available if there were you know Appropriations available they would occur you know through a a city department so you know it the appropriation would be potentially to the city council or to you know another departmental um or another department within the city so there wouldn't necessarily be spend ending Authority for the commission however you know the commission could recommend that spending take place and then if it's appropriated to one of the Departments you know that work would but it would be housed within you know a department or or an external entity outside of that if it's some problematic things that the city doesn't do exactly right so we have a lot of what we call PSAs and Professional Service agreements and it's basically a contract with um an outside agency or a nonprofit or something that we think is you know there's a lot of different cases but oftentimes it's uniquely positioned to perform that work better than we can more question um so well I guess first of all with those PSAs do you what does the process look like to get on that list do you have to be on that list for us to to use them as a vendor or as a uh group or organization so the city has a lot of rules around uh procurement and so the way it would work is that you know city council uh would pass a budget resolution that might you know contain an appropriation to a department to you know do an RFP which is like a request for proposal or to you know do a competitive process to see you know which group could potentially take on that work and then we'd evaluate that award it based on you know whatever criteria are set up um so you know as long as we follow the rules of procurement and the you know the expenditure of taxpayer money um then you know then you could work with so it's an internal call out of if there's a service that the city is looking for and then a vendor can apply versus a vendor just like filling out a form and and it this is a service that they are offering it it's more of a call out versus an offer yeah typically and we have different procurement thresholds for when we have to go through certain steps of a process so it it really depends on the dollar threshold for the contract um but we have a whole procurement division that manages you know the fair Award of of contracts or you know taxpayer dollars what stipulations exist as relates to um kind of Equitable representation in those PSAs yeah um so procurement is not my area of expertise but I but I do know that um you know at a certain uh threshold you need you you know an affirmative action plan you need other um really like uh like labor standards other things based on the threshold of it and then the higher the dollar amount the more rigorous the process is so I I would say the Equitable nature is really you know driven by um the dollar thresholds but I think generally um you know um there yeah so I was just wondering about the intent it making sure that there was diversity in the vendors that were utilized I understand sry the federal Fe and again formative that but it's Minnesota there were only so many yeah so I know and again this is not my area of expertise but I know the procurement department has um made you know a lot of efforts in this area to really recruit um you know vendor list that you know more representative of the city small minority owned businesses so I'm not it's not my area of expertise so I can't speak to it very knowledgeably but I know that there's that's an area of focus within our procurement Division and I think they even have um a certain certification program that they that they operate thank you ja yeah thank you than you uh chair Cruz and and Commissioners for having me appreciate the time and good luck to you on all your work you our next order of business is the discussion of The Works plan activities on first draft what we developed okay everyone can take out the let see if I can turn this off there um your gra work plan here this up so the audience can see it um so as you can see you know I've pulled together um a lot of the activities that we've already done thus far um and listed um as well as you know maybe a few things that we kind of still have in in in the hopper or what in progress and then some of the ideas that were laid out um at our last meeting now to maybe based on uh Jay's presentation and just some correspondence too we've been having back and forth um with City Council Members you know we still you know have to provide like a detailed kind of itemized budget and that may be something that a committee can kind of sit down and Focus some attention on um you know Jay did present us with a sample that's in your packet so that's something that can be can be used but um you know if you look at just some of the um ideas that we floated around at the last meeting um you know the budget allocation um you know having potentially a committee to look at that and go you know a lot more details around that and build that out based on our initial $500,000 request um you know that's very high high in the sky but you know maybe that's something that can be negotiated Down based on whatever conversations that happen uh down the line uh the rep reparatory Justice fund um listening sessions uh the harm report uh having a presenter come in and talk about uh potential ordinance around slavery disclosure and redress and uh some archival work um as well as proposing um a legal question to do some research around um in terms of looking exclusively at doing ref cations around descendants of chatt slavery so you know that's generally what we have and as we talked and met with City Council Members we just told them that as as of this point we only have a general um recommendation that we're operating around with that 500,000 but you know I guess we have to kind of back into that and align that um into a line item budget so now just to be clear we're talking about a budget for 25 not this year correct so we don't really have any operating money for 24 correct yeah or I should say maybe more like programmatic initiative money you know it's just operations is the only thing that we fing with unless so or city counc yeah you know so we can get a council that money thanks Veronica s this is our last in-depth discussion prior to final adoption by our next meeting are there any changes to the existing March plan or other activities that anyone would like to suggest for 22425 I just make a a comment um I wasn't at the last meeting um because I was sick but I and all of this is laid out but I just wanted to comment that I think that the four pieces that really are important in my mind is that education piece um the data piece as well as the law and glossery all those things are laid out but I just want to like um make it clear that these are pieces that I believe are going to make it really intrical and it with the education piece and the legal and and glossery piece of the work plan I just feel like these pieces are going to make it so that the community also has Buy in through this process that we have um as well as having current data of the gaps within our city that are affecting the black folks that we are uh trying to fight for this for um so I know that this is talked about already but I since I wasn't here last week I just wanted to say that than you I'll listen my you have comments on the work plan suggest yeah if we're working from this draft one um much of what's on the first page is not a work plan in my mind the work plan is going to be the specific um steps that we take to address the mission of the commission and these other pieces have just been Preparatory stuff that we have to do anyway but it's not a work plan that in my mind we should you know include here so we're we're um kind of at a loss for right thinking about a work plan we don't have any operating money for this year so we're really doing the plan for next year which means we you know we're kind of hashing out what we're going to do next year and if that's the when this stuff goes into effect uh because otherwise we got nothing to work with right now well part of of what I'm looking at is what's really in this draft is an actual work plan that we're going to be taking up in 2025 because this is not for 2024 even though I think there's some critical things that we need to do this year that we curently don't have any money to do that we do have money that we could use city council money city council put appropriate money out of their budget we could use um Department it would have to go through a city department so it wouldn't actually be us as a governing body spending money but it could go through St Paul Parkson wck it could go through the library it could go through other City departments um so then we could make a work plan for 2024 absolutely but the request for money from the city council board but that wasn't clear from what what I heard but I think he say it would just go through a different okay so is there an interest in I mean making this work plan 2425 because okay that so if we if we are um spending money this year are we looking at these activities on and again I think the first page is just kind of what we've done it's not we hadn't thought about that as a work plan it's really when we get down to these specific steps that we're starting to talk about over is that yeah and maybe we can look at it as you know these other activities that you know actually take some real you know much more tangible dollars we can see that into 2020 VI you know because like you know at least from what I was hearing Jay say is whatever kind of appropriation we can get from the city council in the mayor's office an agreed appropriation those dollars can either go through you know City uh uh entities or external entities um if it fits whatever you know our work plan AC ity is so um I think you're right in terms of the things that we've done this year you know mostly is like out of the I guess all of it's just been out of the operation budget because it's just been a lot of housekeeping type of activities but the rest of these activities going down to the community um doing any kind of reports those kinds of things may take you know Consultants may take you know uh different types of marketing adver iing and so that we would have to build a more robust budget around agreed and that so and I can say like she said we can look exactly at what um we're talking about for like I think I think on want to jump ahead but we start talking about subcommittees uh I don't know how much that would cost to do that LE to get into sub commit and start working on a budget budget a budget subcommittee uh the Rondo or the Emancipation fund subcommittee so we can start working in the subcommitte as part of our work plan and and even if you look at what he just laid out the mayor's going to drop his budget proposal August 13th um it won't be approved until January so we'll be working along with that process as work moving forward work and I just wanted to add um for the group to think about too I know we had initiated a discussion around glossery and I forgot to put that on here um so that is something I would like to add um you know but some of these activities too may be able to be combined you know for example if we're doing like a harm report you know whoever is doing that if we get an outside consultant or something or an organization individual so forth that maybe that's a component that they can put into their aspect of the work but um you know I know that's something that we were initially thinking of um but you know I still think we should probably parse that out and put that in a particular line item or was it in there okay all right thank you um and then I was also thinking maybe to a um a historical timeline of some of some sort because I know a lot of times when we're talking in depth about our history sometimes it gets kind of mushed in together and it would be good to just have a timeline that's looking at National History um our national timeline uh and our you know uh State timeline local timeline neighborhood timeline you know wherever so that you can see where you know FKS spit in that scheme um um thank you something else I had in my notes um and I know someone donated some materials I don't know if they're still here in the audience but it might be good to get a collection of materials that you guys can pull out and read and you know kind of review at your own Leisure um and and maybe have support attending any kind of conferences you know that are going on something else but I think that oh and I leave um essentially a volunteer in the community wants to make a resource list that we worked on previously with the advisory committee that they have some suggestions to make that resource list very user friendly so that again it's kind of helping with the education components so those kinds of things may you know take some resources maybe we can get community members join in and help stien them and so forth so anyway just kind of those smaller things so I just wanted to say so when I see the word work plan that's different than budget so um and the like I've been a grant manager and Grant manager and what that um there are grants that are groups that do get funding to do planning right we're not necessarily getting funding to do planning but a work plan is not the budget so we need to be talking about what it is that we want to do looking at and having in-depth conversations about the individuals who can assist us with that again how we want to um exercise that piece how we want how we want to strategize that um what the timeline is for that looking at that will that take us three months will that taking six months uh at what point in time will we actually me physical dollars looking at again the trajectory and the timeline of what that looks like um based on how we I hate to say this but you know this is true Everyone's an to spend some money but based on how we've been able to kind of talk about things and what have you we really haven't been able to so getting to get our Vibe as far as the communication that we have um the ideas that we have and who is interested in doing what who has various resources and connections to assist us with that to be able to research those to look at that um that's that planning stage that's and again that's woven into the work that we do but as we are just starting and it's not there hasn't been work done before but really honing in on what it is and focusing in on what we want to do um I I feel like this little bit of time that we have is is probably just the right amount of time that we have so that we really get focused and that we understand where everybody's coming from where they want to contribute what they want to do and what that budget will kind of look like um we know that it's 500,000 and we're shooting at that and so looking at so what does that mean as far as you know the dollars for this piece or that piece or what have you so I I I'm not again I'm sort of disappointed but if we had $500,000 in two months what would we do with it you know I mean we want to put it to use but then it's like then it's kind of we have it but it's sort of sitting there and we do it it's not that we don't have funding but we really want to make sure that we utilize this in a way that's going to have an impact um and that everybody's comfortable there I think that's part of like number five's discussion of committee appointments so we will break down our work based on the draft work plan so if you'd like to work on the budget there'll be a commit for Budget want to work on the timeline there'll be a committee for that so the draft of the activity so far we will go into committees and then go into details about what that puros oh I think have Comm I'm going to pass oh with report um I was just looking back at our uh reparations role our commission's role and um thinking about if if our job here is to serve in an advisory capacity on all policy and budget matters pertaining to reparations within the city um we really don't have anything this draft work kind that kind of addresses how we go about doing those pieces and the and this specifically says that we have to develop a time-based evaluation sub city um U expenditures using quality of life metrics I don't know what that is uh but the bottom line is there are some very specific things in the ordinance that that this body is supposed to do and as I look at the pieces of the work plan I'm trying to measure what's on that work plan against the language in the ordinance because if we don't match those two things up I think we'll be up Bas um Mr Mohamed um probably the AL metrics means we're using the disparity data that's available in the city to measure our water for impact so we're not just jumping out into hous we want to know how many houses we want to get black people into into ownership that's quality of life and that's a metric that we want to use to guide work in housing I think the first thing we need to do is back up before we start talking about money get our bearings on the the disposition of the city and what's Avil just like we had somebody come in and give us an orientation on the governance body of the city structure we need to have each department come in and give us a presentation on what they do before we get to a budget we need to take in as much information about the different administrative uh departments within the city then we build our budget based on the plan that we want to use to Target each department which can help us deliver the most potent recommendations to the budget for reallocation of resources that way we're not just chasing dollars before we have a plan we have a plan before we ask for dollars and so we're not chasing our tail and so to your point that's not a work plan but the basis of a work plan is already laid out in what we've already been charged with for the charter for the in the ordinance for the city we just have to get our bearings with the city and we haven't done that yet I think that could of done the subcommittees because we only have one meeting per month for the rest of the year which runs into the budget so we can't have a presentation one from each department every year to the end of the budget that's fine right and also the harm report is what is going so if we want to we as we're producing the har report that's when that that interaction would take place with those City departments and that's what I when we we would have whoever's doing the harmy rep they would take understand what the uh those departments do and then they would see how those departments have harmed black Americans with an from us child slavery in of cities Inception on Mr Engish taking a look at this work plan um it does kind of um if you look at the uh legislative advisory companion report um we are kind of starting to build on what some of the work Nick and and PR and them already kind of set forth for us we just got to start taking a look at what our talents are in dividing to what these subg groups are going to look like so if you're looking at you know for example being part of the listening sessions what are your talents when it comes down to how those hearing sessions are going to entail what are your talents there when it comes down to the budget do you have any experience in accounting or dealing with different budgets in different areas um so we want to get everybody to kind of just break down into these subgroups because again that's some of the work that the legislative advisory committee already you know set forth and did so we want to build on that and just get start rolling right now you know what I mean so I think like I said again budget concerns can go right into that committee and we should be star to focus on what committee we want to be involved in and where where our talents are so it sounds like TR to listen to what everybody's saying here but it sounds like we shouldn't be talking about this dra work plan but we should be talking about the establishment of the subcommittees to begin the work because until the subcommittees do their work we don't have a work plan if we're going to break down into those areas and I'm listening to what nichas said there's a great deal of information we need before we can develop the work plan and so if we say anything about a general work plan at this point it's the development of subcommittees um to start to gather the things we need does that make sense yeah oh yeah Mr just as a point of clarity how many people are M with a different departments in the city and the budgets that they manage every single Department of the city we're going to be making no no no I'm just I put I I was just commenting on the challenge in your question not not I'm trying to help us sett I'm trying to help us settle into the reality of what we probably should get ready to prepare for before we start talking dollars and cents because the reality is I don't even think $500,000 is going to be appropriate for what we need to do but if we evaluate each department each department might be looking for the feedback that we're going to provide and they might have resources available to help us streamline and our budget might grow substantially through proxy because we're making recommendations in real time to people who need it who don't have the expertise that we have to evaluate what they're there for and how they can contribute to equ Equitable and reparative outcomes that's what I'm saying so even before we get to work groups the reason I asked that question is because we're assuming that we can start work groups where everybody's going to know how to evaluate different areas of the city and if we don't even know that the work grou of what you're talking about just not as a commission because we only meet once a month we can't evaluate all of the departments on our once a month meeting we need a committee to do that work I never said we should do it in I'm saying there's there's all of the information we're looking for it's great way better day and I think that will come are we saying that the committee is going to evaluate all of the Departments and then come back to the group I would say the har report committee would do that okay so as of right now to your question what we're tasked with is are do we want to make any more recommendations to the already sort of subcommittees that's already been provided on the work plan in addition to what Ronica asked to add so we're just adding to the list historical timeline she said the glossery was already in there conferences a resource list and um yeah those are the things I got from verica and there's F Department yeah um I'm cool not to have that on there right now I think uh we probably need to have some conversation about or some research on what would be involved in trying to um get to the outcome of being committee under the city I mean under the and what the but we could move on to committees if nobody else has everything at all to the workland as a possible secondly I just have a question is so the budget we had talked about earlier though that's just 2025 correct so it's not we can have more money later is like okay just want to Impossible if and through if we can make a request through different departments this year if we need or the city they have a bud our next quter of business is discussion of committee appointment keeping in mind some topics may be able to be combined I would like to have committees formed to tease off any implentation ideals once we adopt the list of work plan activity any thoughts on that or are these topics you like to this are there any topics you would like to be yeah I can start out with the Cav disclosure act and also you know I would like to be a part of that har report okay well maybe I'm a little loud of it but how many committees are there and where are they listed uh whatever we want to the Emancipation fund committee for territory Justice committee the listen session Committee of the slavery disclosure uh committee and so we know the intent of all the different right okay commit yeah so budget time report reparatory Justice withing session and sorry could you repeat it one more time oh budget thank you here time report committee Preparatory Justice fund committee listening session committee the slavery disclosure act that was five I want to be such want so let's start with the budget who all wants to be a part of the budget debate raise your hands before I down we know I'll go with that too that'll be my L three Jeremy bud did you repeat those names too real quick Nyla kulia Jeremy and and the harm report committee that again then the reparatory Justice fund committee what exactly would that have to do so well basically when Evon the first thing Evon did when they um established their reparations commission and they said said set 10 million th $10 million aside create a fund for their for their Pro reparation program but we're going to need to create a fund ourselves like and um basically even if we have a disclosure slavery disclosure act part of that UE says that if uh organizations or a company has been connected to slavery that uh the city would want that or organization to contribute to the fund okay okay seeing that seeing that they're seeing that those both of because because both of those are so connected to each other I would rather be a part of the retor Justice fund because I want to support the slavery disclosure acts you know instead of being a part of what I would consider just the straight budget committee because I want to really be a part of those slavery disclosure acts and because um that report rep reparatory Justice fund is kind of like a a bridge for that I would rather resign from the budget and focus on reparatory bu so take you take you off of the budget consideration to reparatory yeah and the slavery disclosure Act and the budget the repes rep Preparatory Preparatory Justice fund be combined since they're related right so did you get that verica slavery disos territory yeah to De combined now we're down to one two three four permissions I mean sorry my brains on so the last and listen no no no I'm sorry no I was trying to raise my hand to ask a question no for you no I was going to ask to be put on the slaver disclosure reparatory Justice fund okay that's and um and what the glossery that's on the work plan um yeah wa no does that have does that include data stuff or is that another committee or is that not something I thought the glass was building a a vocabulary that relates to the issue I have a question about that um and just thinking about glossies and dictionaries and encyclopedias and wikipedias is the glossery just going to be terms or would the glossery also be able to have in it histor IAL figures I it's just a question I don't know can I no I just saw kind of how he came in and gave us terminology I think that would be in it but also I think what she just said when somebody came in and they wanted to beef up resource resource L I think all of that can kind of work together this Bes do and and and my other question and Veronica you probably answered this and in when and out the other so I apologize but um the glossery would be among other things accessible on the website could be yeah more than likely that's what Happ yeah that's I mean you're this can be I I get too dramatic about this but I think this could be actually for a lot of people very eye openening not only to have you know term something that refers to an Era or an event or something that came out of it but also key figures and of course the list of figures will always be growing because there's always scholarship and there's always uh um you know somebody goes into an attic and opens a box and then there's you know everybody's related to everybody all of a sudden so I just want to no I just wanted to wanted to ask a question to be clear because I I think that for a certain kind of person a glossy can be a really very useful and very accessible door into the topic that's about it all I for educational uh a lot of different uh when we first started municipality from around the country how we got this established and I that is helpful for not just us even today there was we were at a meeting earlier and uh some kids from University were asking those questions like what is reparations what's this what's that and so just it's good for us it's good for Community it's good for so then can I propose that we add one more committee which includes the glossery the resource list okay um I had a question about that committee that we potentially might be adding so with the glossery then is it going to be strictly terminology and the definition or is the glossery going to be a place where shared terminology is added and what I mean by that is there might be a definition or an opinion of something that as a as a group we need to understand what that terminology or what that um historical event is versus you know this color is red like that there's fact and then there are things that can be argued I feel like in a glossery do you think um isn't that something that I'm sorry nothing we're not saying it just makes a it makes a difference of if I would want to be in the commit that particular committee or not what thing like kind what n was yeah it's evolving that's where I'm kind of like kind of that's where I think that's where the magic me inside those committee because this gives um us time to talk and like you said get to know each other see where we come so again I'd like to propose that I know if we got that one the that fifth committee will be glosser resource L and timeline anybody want to be a part of that committee so I just want to make sure I understand so we just started with gloss and expanded it to include these other functions still I'm good I'll be a partner I think you said something about like figures which go with the resource list which could be developed on a timeline having yeah and to respond to jam one of the I go on on about this one of the one of the Beauties about having something that's interactive is you can do exactly what you're talking about is here's the term and here are the hyperlinks to the scholarship to the controversy to the I mean it could be really endless I'm not myself a Tik Tock person but somebody might have a Tik Tok on a particular thing and you could go there from the glass you can be your your doorway the timeline can be a doorway same thing like U you even like how they have Mapp in same all you can click on right here yeah nothing about data so to me um people think those statistics sometimes help to put provide context as as do a straight definition of a particular place um you still had see is on here support archival work and uh legal question AR question repat Justice that it's La theal question or [Music] no six committees I like of legal [Music] question I think do you does anybody else want to be a part of the last two committees that we mention is this uh oh sorry is this that in stone like we can't like decide later yeah I'll I'll type this up with you know have it all laid out and hopefully at the last meeting you know can just adopt it you know in terms of the activities and then the Committees can go in and you know dig in them as deep as they want to and then hopefully going to sign a budget a detailed budget itemized budget all right so legal question clly who else what is this have request have well I was raising the question if you want that when I was last meeting I was raising the question as to whether we wanted to think about um legal analysis of in support of the policies that we might recommend and primarily because I saw what happened in Nashville when they put forth their policy recommendations and the Ashville City attorney came in and said you can't do this you can't do that and so I was just thinking it might make sense if we were to kind of PR tively think about how we defend policies that are designed to um recommend reparation through the city council and the mayor would that be a committee want to oh yeah okay me on there too I'll be on there with you right of yeah and we have to we have to keep in mind that we can't you know we can't can't have any more than six Commissioners oh I think they're all we're all there okay all right um what did you work that goes under the anything around educational materials conference attendance attending that l or in budget but somebody would somebody be in charge of research go to we have a committee that looks at what conferences are all there I think this is a good start and so we might end up [Music] any more discussion on that yeah I'm still lost on which one of these power maps The City the harm report committee the harm report committee so develop report to help establish a narrative and start a point of redress similar to to cities such as Boston Los Angeles State C California yeah that's what they did did you read see the report no I'm reading the description of what the group is supposed to be but the harm report would do that so could we extrapolate that that out because I'm a little concerned that we're not like I'm respectfully trying to express what I'm what I know and what I'm bringing to the table and I don't see it in the plan and so when I bring it up I'm not bringing it up to be no I'm not saying that but we're saying that the harm report committee and do the work of talking to the different departments to see what they're function right and I was just saying could have put that in instead of sighting because you told me these were the descriptions so I'm reading for the description even once we get into the groups we can start tightening up those script I mean would it would it be helpful to so for each each of these committees kind of lay out you know what kind of what the charge is or the parameters of what the committee is to do or we can do that now or do we want to wait until we get I think the should my primary concern is that there's a charge that we have to make recommendations and then I'm looking at what these committees are focusing on and I'm trying to make the correlation between what the Committees are going to spend time and energy on and what job is when it comes to making recommendations to all of the budgets that the city is getting ready to roll out there's utility to some of these things but when it comes to an actual work plan that produces the outcome that we're charged with I'm getting concerned at what I see do you have a copy of the her report or the example no but I do understand what a work plan is and I do understand what our ordinance is I do too and I understand what a committee is and I know how to break out committee not my first rodeo but what we write and what we commit and and communicate to one another just like we bringing up the glossery is very important so I'm just saying as I look at what we're charged with via the ordinance and what these committees are getting ready to focus on how much of that is going to contribute to the outcome of the actual recommendations that we're going to be charged with and that's why the harm report will take a look at all the city departments historically in now and help us be able to see what how the city has harmed us what those what the different departments do and then that would help us make Rec can I make a suggestion here because I I hear what Nick is saying and I think that in terms of describing the work of this committee that naming it harm report is kind of jumping the gun because a part of what Nick is saying is we need to talk to these various departments understand how they operate understand their budgets take a look at how those budgets are um impacting what we're concerned about with its reparations issues and then we can make policy recommendations from there and I think if you if you label the committee har it confuses the idea that we're actually talking about sending people from this body into the various departments to get information about we're confused here there's going to be more confusing we're not we're not those like we're not confused I'm confused okay so all I'm saying is that the um maybe we need some you know at least I think a part of the goal was in reference to what Nick was saying was to make sure we gain a better understanding of those departments and how they work and what buds are developing a report based on the harm and by doing that you would have to go into different departments find out how they operate find out what harm was created in housing what is the data point in the disparities in housing how what is you know all of those things you have to research first before you come up with a har report which is why it's called a har report and then you you know you have this knowledge based on the research that you've done with the different departments and how each one of those departments work have hared and yeah work operated and have harmed black the black community and then what recommendations do we have based on that policy U what policy recommendations and budget recommendations based on the harm report that we have we could recommend to the C which I hear you and I think what I the simplest way I can put it is there's a historical way to approach this and then there's an engineering way to approach this I'm looking for the engineer language as opposed to historical rhetoric because we're going into departments who are going to have an engineer hat on they're there to figure out how to actually take what we're going to recommend and run calling it harm puts it into a historical context what do you mean by harm what how should we be looking at this and that requires more education on the back end of people who're going to be engaging as opposed to an evaluation of the Departments and just simply calling it an evaluation of the Departments for our determination placing these these historical narratives requires more analysis and information and creates confusion just because you all have it doesn't mean that the multiple departments who have a lot of different things on their plate already are going to just assume and have the time to go read all the historical context we're not asking don't do that me like you said we'll talk to them they'll tell us what what they've done the people that we get to do the H report will look at what they've done and then we'll bring that information back and be able to make uh recommendations and if you want to put that inside the description of the committee we have meway to do that so we don't have to make it hard complicated for no reason I think as a practical matter what Nick expresses and what I think makes sense is that you have to go into these meetings not assuming har you have to go in figure out what's going on and when you begin with the label arm you set up a practical roadblock to getting the information you want to get and so that's why I say because you have to leave the door open that you come out of the meeting saying this particular Department did no harm but if but if you if you start by saying I'm developing a harm report you see what I'm saying it's just as a practical matter if I were investigating something I would have to have open enough mind to say I just I'm going in here to get the facts and and then I'll I'll figure out where they go from there but I'm not going in saying I'm developing a harm report if if you've done no harm then that's why we're here exactly we're here this is a reparations commission even if the reparation commission comes to ask you what you're doing you're going to assume that we're coming to talk to you about the har the harm you've done to the community that's why I think I think we're jumping a little ahead and all I'm saying is we're dealing with departments that have human beings and some of these people are just doing their job they just graduated they got a degree they don't know anything about what we're getting ready to approach them with and we're slamming doors that we don't need to slam we're creating barriers that don't need to be there all we're really doing is evaluating the department that's the and I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp that's why I tried to sayu committee I mean it's go it's just a function of what the committee is going to do I think we're focusing on stuff that we don't really need to be focused the bottom line of it is is it's a starting point for redress so if it's a starting point for redress I think this can be discussed in that committee right but it impacts I won't say that it impacts I'm sorry you yeah I just wanted to say really quick um I I I second at least what you're saying about uh commissioner McCoy regarding the terminology I think the you can maybe have like a bullet underneath that a harm report can be developed through this committee but I I there is other work that I think is going to happen that is related to the harm report but it might not necessarily be the harm report or the work that's going towards the harm report that I think does still fall in line with what I'm understanding that this is supposed this committee is supposed to be and so I I think that it's I think it's the terminology that's the issue here and I and I get I understand like that's the term for the particular process that is like being talked about however I I think that that's just like one bullet in other work that might happen in that committee and that's that's basically what I going say you know what comes to mind from what I'm hearing um let's say is that it's evaluation just looking to see um again there may be harm there but there may be departments again departments and government have the odest things and you're not sure what it is they actually do and you get in there and you're like I never would have known so what's nonsp right so you might come across a department that is able to provide um a opportunity to do funding and to execute a program or to exercise a strategy that's going to be beneficial for something that we want to accomplish and we wouldn't know that if we go in specifically looking forarm so it's not like okay they're good and then you walk away that's not all you know to's Point that's not all that they're doing necessarily and they mentioned that you know Bank B our charge is to make shortterm medium and longterm recommendation about how to CL the raal wealth back in the city of St PA Hill generational weal Latin America so when we're coming to talk to them and we say these people from the reparations commission same Recovery Act Community reparations commission talk about what we do so basically if you're reparation in the word reparation is coming from the word repair and if you're talking about repair that means something have been or a group of people have been and that's why we're here so I don't know if you guys want to call it something else that's fine but it's still going to serve the same function we're still going to have to produce a harm report so I mean we can call it evaluation committee or I don't want to go too far with this but I'm resonating that this is a semantic what I would call a semantic thing so here's what you do it's an assault rifle if you call it a modern sporting rifle all of a sudden you've opened doors that you could never open when you called an assault rifle and I'm not promoting assault rifles I'm just giving an example call it a call it a modern sporting rifle whatever need to do well right now we have how many people do we have that are part of that Commission um kulia Joseph car and Jeremy so I would like that commission to decide what they want in their charge you can put me on that commission but I will say and what they want to call themselves and things these are not semantics these are basic tools that people need to government so we have to remember where we're going and what we're doing every is not going to be a historical lesson for people sometimes we just need to come here where our body of knowledge and expertise and our own historical context to help them get that's that's what we're going to be doing we're working in a government agency so we need to make sure that when we come in we create clearcut levels of understanding that don't require a lot of historical ground for these departments to understand what we're looking for well but okay but so we do so we add Nick for that commission I can I just have one comment I think that's great idea to have the committee decide to scope with its work and report back to this body um I also just want to say you know one of the things that the city did in past pass ing the ordinance was to acknowledge home and and so I don't want to reinvent the wheel in terms of the thing we spend our energy on um the city acknowledged the harm and that's why the commission insists to do policy recommendations on how to repair it and so there's some Merit I think and and I hope this committee will hash this out um in taking the position that we we actually don't have to go down that road again all we really have to do is develop policy recommendations that repair the harm but if you don't know what the harm is how can you repair it if you don't know what the committee does and and that's why I say let the committee let the committee decide the go in and literally establish whether or not there is harm being produced by that department that Department's not going to know har is just one of the things we might find we also might find proficiency but we're not calling it The proficiency committee it's just evaluation the whatever call itself to say that this is a great body of government that has really help black people throughout its existence and that's what we would say you know I don't go though the goal is to make is to make policy recommendations on repair right so that's what so if they haven't harmed us then why would we make recommend well they might but but can we now this isan right and that's so that's why I'm saying we have the people that want to be on the committee and then we can have that let them have that discussion agre so um I think those are all pretty much all of them and then our next topic is adoption of the Bible I move we adopt the B our next order of business is the doct of B did everyone get a chance to review uh I say let B Be did everyone so uh is there a motion on the floor to be I move the adoption second all in favor the motion passes okay and our next order of business is to reflect on the next meeting are there any suggestions for what you would like to see at the next or future meeting agendas and we'll be meeting that Rond um it would be cool if we could talk to the procurement people since they mentioned that um when we were talking about the finance piece because um as you had mentioned earlier commissioner I'm going to press your last yeah golden golden okay as commissioner golden mentioned earlier like I I do think that there are spaces for us to also review and kind of look at how we could potentially have recommendations in that area just wanted to know like who's going to follow up as far as setting time for the Committees to meet and like like that process so they are supposed to I mean the intended that they beet outside yeah wherever you want and those meetings can be on Zoom team right and I do believe that those still even have to be public if not don't we didn't all right I was hearing something different so I need to check are there any other business do we get minutes oh no go ahead I was going to ask do we get minutes thank you for that yes okay uh Jamie and I are working through Minutes Jamie just got on board so she's kind of helping me kind of clean up the minutes and get a a uniform look I still have to review because I think we've had her and another person do minutes so you know I have to kind of sort through different formats and you know kind of come to a singular format or something and listen to tapes and make sure that they're right so I'm hoping by next meeting it may be a CLP but then after that we can start approving each month's minutes no no I just um but the minutes are based on the recording right correct is the recording um accessible the recording the recording is on our website yeah so you you can basically stream it yeah cool that's all I just want I just I thought that was true I just wanted that yeah you can you could view it on the website I don't know what you mean by streaming but you can view it on before we adjourn uh Jamie would you like to introduce yourself hi my name is jie I am U work with verica I am a office assistant and I um also do red staff St red staff so I do two jobs in and one thank you being no other business before us is there a motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn is there a second second all in favor I meeting is adjourned thank you we got a question over here I'm now a meeting to and all the audiences