Hi everyone. Welcome to the 2025 uh annual PCR summit. We're really excited to have all of you here. My name is Sarah Florman. I am the current chair of the PCR. And I'm going to introduce the other commissioners real quick. And if folks could just stand up and wave when I call your name. We have Vice Chair Laura Forstrom from W 4. Commissioner Mike Darrow from W 7. Commissioner Dan Featherstone from Ward One. Commissioner Kathy Grills from W 5 is I don't believe she is able to be here this evening. Commissioner Aaron Hayes from W 3. Also, a shout out to the St. Paul Central baseball team. Aaron will be leaving us a little early to watch her son's last baseball game of the season, so when she walks out, it's not in protest. Commissioner Mike Ratimaker from W 6, Commissioner Nancy Rodenberg from W 3, and Commissioner Chavevel Webb from W One. And I forgot to tell you this, but I am also W six. So, thank you again all for being here tonight. It's a privilege to stand before you and share the work of the Police Civilian Internal Affairs Review Commission, also known as the PCR, over the past year. I'd like to begin by acknowledging some important some. This past year, the PCR reviewed 52 cases, which is the highest number since the commission transitioned to an all civilian body. This milestone is more than a number. It represents the hard work, diligence, and commitment of our commissioners, staff, and community members who bring their voices and concerns forward. Our PCR coordinator, Sierra Cumberland, made meaningful strides in community engagement, attending or facilitating 27 events and presentations to raise awareness about the work of the commission. These efforts are vital to helping the community understand the role of our commission and how individuals can be involved in ensuring fair and just oversight. You'll see in our annual report, which there are copies of in the back, that the number of complaints submitted has been increasing steadily year after year. At first glance, this might seem troubling, but in reality, it's actually a sign that police community relations are improving. It signals a growing public trust in the process and in the department's willingness to be held accountable. I want to take a moment to sincerely thank Chief Axel Henry and Commander I I've just put your last Commander Kacob. Uh yeah, we don't do first names, I guess, with internal affairs for their ongoing support of the civilian review process. Their openness in answering questions, listening to feedback, and responding to concerns has helped to ensure the commission's work has meaning and value. A good example of this responsiveness occurred last year when commissioners noticed a rise in complaints related to related to domestic violence calls. These are among the most complex and dangerous calls that officers respond to. In response, the commission provided some policy and training recommendations to improve outcomes in these situation. The department listened and acted and that kind of cooperation is critical. We asked a great deal of our police officers. We asked them to enter situations that most of us would run from. We asked them to uphold the law while often witnessing the worst of human behavior. And we asked them to remain calm, professional, and fair no matter what they're walking into. As the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics states, I will maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn, or ridicule. And these are not just words. They're the foundation of what we expect from our police officers. The department's own policy, section 150.02, conduct on becoming an officer, acknowledges that officer's actions are subject to far greater scrutiny than those in other professions. When an officer falls short, the consequences and the public criticism are amplified. And yet, that's what makes this work so important. Every interaction between an officer and a member of the public carries weight. Tone of voice, body language, even a single word. These can shift a situation dramatically. And that's why our standards for professionalism are so high. The PCR takes its responsibility seriously. We watch footage. We study reports. We comb through department manuals. We ask really tough questions. And we don't stop until we get answers. We challenge policies when they raise concern. And we acknowledge the difficulty and the nuance of police work. It's easy to be a critic in hindsight. It's much harder to be the person in the moment making split-second decisions. Our recommendations are grounded in the facts and standards laid out in department policy. But leadership is responsible for providing officers with the training tools and support to meet those standards. And they are equally responsible for building and sustaining the culture that the St. Paul Police Department has worked so hard to create. The community's role is just as vital. We ask you to continue putting your trust in this process and to hold us all accountable. We also ask for continued efforts from the department to strengthen transparency and deepen community ties. Together, we can build a St. Paul that works for all members of our community. Thank [Applause] you. Go to Angie. And now I would like to uh call up to the podium director Angie Whisy. Well, first, uh, good evening and I, you know, I'm I'm pitch hitting, but I am so glad to have been asked and, um, I was on part one of the many interview panels to select our current police chief. And, uh, this topic came up in conversation and I am just I'm very very grateful for the work of the PCR. Um, but I'm Angie W. the director of safety and inspections. And we the work that we do, we do not do it alone. And we have great partnerships with HeroE. We have great partnerships with the police. And I'll hit on some other partnerships that we have across the city as I go through these. But um we're all in and and you'll you know, the mayor often says that uh he tends to use the word enterprise. You know, we're going to um we bring all of our tools and all of our assets to to every situation that comes in front of us. Uh so focusing on housing and the city looks at housing in kind of this. It's not just about um producing more housing. We have to protect the housing we have and uh and this got a little strange in this version, but that's all right. We'll figure it out. Uh the the words so produce, protect, and preserve. And so we really need to preserve the housing that we have, the housing stock we have. We're a very builtup city. We've got a lot of old, we got a lot of unique. Um, and that's those are wonderful spaces to have. Um, but they take some maintenance, right? Uh, so we also need to create spaces where we can produce more housing and again protect people in the spaces that they call home. Uh, part of this is the rent stabilization ordinance. So we call it RSO but rent stabilization on the face of it you know no landlord can implement a rent increase more than 3%. There are exceptions though that's what people glom on to is that 3% but there are um the a landlord has a right to earn a reasonable return on their investment. It's not a nonprofit. They're a for-profit company. They have a right to h to have um a return on their investment. So there are ways that we capture that return on investment and people have to justify that they've made an investment or to retain that investment. There are other uh exceptions related to lowincome housing. So if the housing actually if the rent is dictated by HUD, well then you know that obviously supersedes are any rules that we would have. Uh and sometimes there's like deed restrictions on property where the the deed actually restricts the the rent. So that would supersede um our rules. Uh and then there's the new construction exception and um uh the one that is used and I'll show you stats here most frequently is actually the just cause vacancy request which is kind of an exception kind of not. It's in the middle because it still limits rent but it gets to go it's more of a formula to go above the 3% and just cause just means that the person left voluntarily. So they found a new home, they moved in with a partner, they uh, you know, left the state for a a new job, they left voluntarily. And so people are able to raise the rent after that person leaves 8% plus CPI. Uh, these are the stats for, you know, the time that rent stabilization has been in play. Uh again, you see that the just cause vacancy is far and away the most requested type of exception. And um and very very few uh appeals. Complaints here is uh when we say complaints, some people complain that they just don't like the policy. Like they actually might be for the policy and they don't like the one that's adopted here, you know, or they just don't like the policy in general. So, the complaints aren't necessarily about rent being increased on their individual unit. Um, we found that sometimes there actually are just about the policy in general. Uh, fire safety inspections. This is actually where I started with the city. I'm working on year 20 here. And, uh, so this is this is like my original baby, my firstborn, if you will. And, uh, so it's really rooted in in proactive inspections. And I think we have the best program in the nation. And I've heard of other programs and they actually call us to ask how we do this. Um we are in people's units. A lot of other jurisdictions are only in like the main hallways and common areas. We're in people's units so that we can um because that's where, you know, that's where people live. The three main causes of fire are are men, women, and children. And I could add some more pronouns, but the you know, that's not um it's not electrical. It's not lightning. It's what people do in spaces that really are the risk. Um, so we have quite the inventory. We've got a commercial section, residential. We inspect every uh rental property, so single family all the way to your largest high-rise. And then we inspect all commercial property, including the building you are in right now. Uh, the tools for compliance for residential, we have a a grading system. So the grading system is kind of the carrot that that goes with that inspection. So, if you have a well-maintained property, it's on a point system, uh your A property will be inspected in six years, B four years, C 2 years, and D is the worst of the worst, and we'll see again in one year. Um we have reinspection fees, um the revocation of the certificate of occupancy, which means nobody can be there. Uh that is a tool in this, and then criminal citation. um that revocation of certificate of occupancy. You might have heard that recently with respect to like Alliance Bank building for instance, that was a you know a condemnation of the fire certificate of occupancy for lack of utilities. Um, and you know, I committed to every time I'm at a microphone that I will say the word administrative citations and how valuable they will be to us in this work. And um, certainly in this uh in this program because we go from reinfect reinspection fees all the way to revocation. That is a huge gap where we have just not the right set of tools. So, um, administrative citations would be really great assets for this program. Our code enforcement division. Um, so we've got kind of the building safety. This is really your owner occupied homes. And then all of I would say exterior type violations. So, graffiti, um, illegal dumping, uh, tall grass and weeds, unshoveled sidewalks, that all comes out of our code enforcement division, but also the vacant building program and the truth and sale of housing program. Uh, believe it or not, this is the same house. So, picture on the left was when we arrived and picture on the right was not a few hours later, it was several months later. Our folks are really, really dedicated and working with people on where they're at and seeing how we can connect them to resources. Um, our goal is to have people stay in their homes if at all possible. Um, and just show that progression and that the the willingness to to be um, safer in their environment. Uh this is a few few examples of things that we deal with. You know, the the one on the left is not really illegal dumping. I mean, it is illegal, but it's more like we tried. Uh we got it in the area. Does it count? Uh it doesn't count. We still need to have adequate garbage service. The one on the right, um you know, this I believe is actually in a yard. And still like what we're trying to the way this gets problematic is if if you can imagine cuz have anyone been in New York City like right before garbage is collected then you know what can happen if if uh if everyone were just to like leave garbage uh uncontained. Uh heart is what you have on on your agenda for um that's in the paperwork but heart is the homeless assistance response team. And this was really born out of a gap that we saw. So we've done homeless work for a very very long time. But there was this gap in the real outreach work that we were needing within the city. So a lot of the outreach partners are great partners. Um but the the funding mechanism for them is is not uh supportive of just what we call relentless engagement. So um we've you know the goal is not to house people, believe it or not. is to get them connected to the resources to get housed. Um but even so, we've actually housed 90 people um with the heart team, assisted 11 people directly into treatment and we're removing barriers so that we can get to those placements. Um countless housing assessments. So, nobody can get placed in housing until they actually have a housing assessment to see kind of what their resources are, what their barriers are, what is a good fit, what are they looking for. um tons of relationships. Again, this is one of those areas where we can we do not do it alone. We hold weekly calls with over 40 providers um internal and external on the call all trying to share knowledge and um about the ecosystem and what they're seeing out there and how we can do things to to make a difference. So, these are some of the the stats. We've done over 8,000 date through Hart and Hart was established in in 2019. Um, you can see the the stats there. The dip, I can tell you, is a very cold winter. That's what that is. Um, people do tend to seek more indoor locations when it's cold. I will I will tell you though that that's not always um a good thing. And I and I'll I'll tell you why. Um people might choose harmful living situations that just aren't outside. Living with a partner who's abusive, you know, making choices that aren't good for them, but it's not outside. And those are th those are the tough choices. If you imagine those were your choices, I could live outside or I could like stay with this person that I'm not safe with. That's a that's what we call a rock and a hard place. So, we're cognizant to not call that a good thing. You know, that's just an indicator of of some other things that are happening kind of in the ecosystem. So, uh we do monitor our numbers very closely, but they're not just numbers. We know everybody's name. Our folks, our heart folks know everybody's name who is outside who's willing to share it with him, even if it's just an alias. And there's a lot of aliases. Again, we call it relentless engagement. um collaboration and creativity. We are we will try anything. Um and we're really just figuring out what's going on with that individual person so that we can address the needs and is that um you they don't have a place to get their mail and so they can't get an ID. What is it that is their barrier? And we'll just start with one thing. The other thing is you when folks I hear people and this is a very charged subject and so I hear people say well I hear most people just don't want to go indoors. I'm like well not perpetually like that's not their life decision that they don't want to go indoors and that's where the relentless engagement comes in is because when they're ready to make a a different choice, we're there and we can't say we're like, "Oh, I'll be back next week. Can we figure something out?" Nope. We're leaving now. Pack up. Let's go. let's get you to this place that you're ready to go to. And that's how you get 11 people into treatment is because when they say they're ready to go, we're actually taking them there. We're not waiting several days to figure out, you know, how to make that happen. Uh you see our our partners in police and actually uh the CARES team here in that center photo and our and if you notice like the gentleman's got, you know, thumbs in vest, right? like that that is the relaxed posture of police on a homeless encampment site and that's what we expect to see. We're there. They're doing they're there really for us. They're not there to do anything of force and actually we won't have them if at all possible do anything like arrest for a warrant while our outreach are there. Um they're there for our protection. some folks uh a former employee said, "You know, if you just slept on the ground for the last 30 days straight with like the worst 50 neighbors you've ever had, you'd be pretty grouchy." And and so some folks just aren't happy to see us and they're our our heart team has been called every name in the book and that doesn't scare them away. Bless them. But the um some folks do have just more than a bad day and or might have a mental health crisis and we're grateful to our police partners who really understand this work and and we'll take that relaxed police posture. Uh you see our CARES team here in the picture too. Uh one of the great things about CARES is they're not coming lights and sirens. You know, if we call 911 and say yes, you know, we need lights and sirens, they'll come lights and sirens. These are really checks on like frostbite toes or an infection in, you know, a wound in an arm or something. So, they're not coming lights and sirens. They're coming in a more approachable manner um to help and not uh scare folks off. And uh the picture on the right, that's actually an outreach worker talking to a camp resident and and seeing, you know, what choice we might make today on getting to somewhere more safe. You notice too, we don't put, these are all our staff or outreach. You don't see a single photo of uh a resident. You don't see their face. We get many requests to take reporters out. These are residents. They're not they're not a spectacle. This is in a zoo. So, we do not we do not do that. Uh totally different subject. animal services. Animal services. I learn so much from these folks every single day. Uh we have field operations and shelter operations. And uh one of the things that I thought, you know, this is the little bit on the bottom here is one of the things I learned from them. And one of the ways in which um uh some of our more like animal humane society nonprofits um might not fit what the needs are of St. Paul residents is that we we see an a increase in at large pets at the end of the month or beginning of the month because of housing transitions moving to a location that no longer allows pets. And um so that's you know we don't have the capacity to take surreners but we often take surreners knowing that it's the end of the month and if I don't take this surrender I'm just going to be picking it up on the corner of you know third and Mariah any day now. So we um we work with residents in their need because we want to make the best choice for them and our community. our in shelter operations. Uh we have, you know, lost animals. We've got uh animals that have been voluntarily surrendered. But this stat on the bottom I'm super proud of. And we work with so many partners. We do not do adoptions out of the shelter right now just for lack of um staffing. So we have to work with nonprofits um and the animal society being one of them to rehome animals. So, we work with a ton of rescues and um but you can't achieve um 90% live, they call it live release in the industry, but it's um this is what you would call a no kill shelter and that's a really difficult number to achieve in this industry. Uh business licensing. So, business licensing, we license, as you see, over 200 different types of businesses. And that's types of businesses, not not businesses. Um, so the things that you might be familiar with like liquor stores and tobacco shops and and bars, but we also um like auto repair and massage therapists. And so, it's really that consumer protection piece is where this comes in. And uh the goal really is to be able to have businesses in our community that help the community thrive. And it's a um it's kind of a trust but verify model, but it is uh the one of the big ways that we have compliance is on the front end on review. So making sure that the people who are opening these businesses are understanding what they're getting into because uh some of these businesses are have a lot of regulations and you really got to know what you're doing. So we do a lot of education on the front end so that we can have responsible business ownership um throughout. We are complaint based. So uh in any of those complaints we start with education. Educate, educate, educate. enforcement is always, you know, way down the line. But in some cases, we do have to do enforcement. And um then we also have compliance checks. And this is really with tobacco and that's uh state law um to have youth compliance checks. Uh you'd be shocked how many people will sell to somebody under the age of 18. It's astonishing. Um, so you uh you would think that that wouldn't happen and that you'd be a responsible owner and operator and check for IDs, but it still happens. I don't know how I'm doing on time, but I'm almost done. I promise. Uh so being at PCR I wanted to make sure to highlight our uh connection with police and we have actually a sergeant who works with us on business licensing too. Um, so anything like we're about to we actually just published a notice of violation for a a bar who has a bunch of violations like within a really close succession. And the police sergeant who works with us is able to review that footage and uh you know what's breaking the law, what's not. And so we um work really really closely with police on business licensing. But in general, you know, the code enforcement officers, and that's that's the term that we call them. I don't know their actual rank, but the they really know our business. Not every patrol officer, not every sergeant, sometimes not even every commander knows the work of DSI and knows how we can build on each other to achieve success in a neighborhood. Um, some things are police issues, sometimes they're livability issues, and sometimes they're both. So, you have this like police arm. um if there's like illegal activity or suspected illegal activity, but usually where there's that, there's also livability issues. So, you know, the pictures of the overflowing garbage, you've got, you know, broken windows, you've got um degradation showing you've got maybe too many people living in a in a space, and that's where you cross over into some of the DSI work. So, we work really closely with our partners at police to address some of these neighborhood issues. And uh sometimes we're working directly with landlords and they have no idea what's going on. They show up to the house and like well I haven't been here in 6 months which our first question is why haven't you been here in 6 months? This is your property. This is your responsibility. So um really working with partners um and the one of the is to actually call things in and I know sometimes you might not actually see the officer who follows up on that call. Maybe you went back to bed. That's probably what I would do. But you, 911 prioritizes the calls. You are not inconveniencing, and I say this because I've heard the chief say it numerous times, you are not inconveniencing police by calling 911. Dispatch will prioritize the calls. You are not taking because you're calling about a noise complaint, you are not taking resources away from a an assault. You just aren't. So, they they triage the calls. And it's important to call uh data data data. If we know that there's an issue in an area, that's where the resources go. It's it's math. So definitely call if you see things. Um 911 for emergencies. Non-emergencies 651-2668989 for the stuff that you think the like non-emergency folks um can handle. There is a non-emergency police number as well, but these are the things that are like livability issues. overflowing trash. You think there's too many people living in a house. Um you think a business is operating outside of the hours that were established. 8989. It's uh as you can see, it is answered Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 4:30, but it has a voicemail and they pick up the voicemails every morning. There's also a web form that can be submitted. Uh so encourage you to bookmark that. These folks take over 85,000 calls a year. Can you imagine taking aundred calls a day, every day? Um, and last year they entered about 15,000 complaints and it's housed in DSI, but we transfer calls everywhere. So, it's your one call uh to the city hall. And with that, I am going to introduce my boss, Mayor Melvin Carter. Good morning, good afternoon, evening, whatever it is. That's you. But the fact that I said morning means I'm a cheerful and optimistic individual. So, what did I do with my water? I don't know. Right here. Here you go, ladies and gentlemen. DSI director Andrew Weasy. Good evening. It is good to see you all here and I appreciate you all being here. I appreciate you all serving as a part of our community first public safety framework. Our our our community first public safety infrastructure that we've built here in St. Paul. We're really proud of really I'd say just two things about public safety in St. Paul. Um it's what we're doing and how we're doing it. How we're doing it. And I tell folks this all the time in St. Paul about the work that we're doing. Whatever it is, uh how we're doing it is by engaging people together. My theory is that every decision that human beings ever make are made to benefit the decision maker. And so if we want policies, if we want investments from city hall that are going to benefit a wider set of people, well, the the most practical approach is to develop a wider set of decision makers on city-based issues. That's why when it comes time to decide who our DSI director is going to be, when it comes time to decide who our police chief is going to be, when it comes time to decide who the members of our cabinet is going to be, because I said our cabinet, that means we have to put those people into place. That's why we do public engagement or what we call our community hiring panels. That's why right now we're in the middle of what we call our community budget games because every year I have to bring a budget proposal in front of the city council and it's not good enough. Many of you know my mother. My parents told me growing up, if your budget doesn't reflect your values, then they're not really your values. And it's not good enough for our budget to just reflect the mayor's values. Our budget has got to reflect our values as a community. That's more important today than it has ever before. Let me tell you that right now we are in between um a challenging economic climate. uh for everybody who's following the impacts of tariffs and all those types of things. Uh we are receiving letters every single day from Washington DC telling if we want to maintain the federal funds that we use to hire police officers, the federal funds we use to employ young people over the summer, the federal funds we're using uh to eliminate uh lead pipes from from our water system that we have to sign up uh to be local agents of ICE. We have to sign up uh to disavow our work on climate. We have to sign up to disavow anything that they think is DEI. Now, you know that ain't happening. That's not our values. But that means we have to be clear what our values are. That means we have to be clear where we stand, what our priorities are. That's why our budget process is so critical and so sacred. And that's why we have to do it together. It's not good enough for a mayor to disappear in the the third floor of city hall and make up a budget on their own. We have to do this in community together. When one of the first things that we set out to do when I became mayor, even before I became mayor, was think together about how we reimagine our approaches to public safety. Now, the world started talking about reimagining public safety just a few years ago. And I was really proud when uh I was on CNN one day and uh the reporter asked me, you know, now that this happened, and by this they meant the murder of George Floyd. They said, now that this happened, what are you going to do differently? What is the St. Paul Police Department going to do differently? How is St. Paul going to approach public safety differently than this h because this happened? And I said, I have a one-word answer for you. And they said, what's the answer? I said, nothing. We're not going to do anything differently because this happened. And the reason we're not going to do anything differently because this happened is because all of the things that need to be done differently because this happened, St. Paul started doing differently before this happened. The St. Paul Police Department started doing differently before this happened. The St. Paul community started doing differently before this happened. And that has given us an advantage on the rest of the country. We understand public safety through this community first public safety journey that we've been on together. We've grown to understand public safety. And as as as the rest of the country I think grappled with whether it's you know police or community or police versus community or what we came up with a framework that recognizes that emergency response is a critical and sacred part of our more comprehensive public safety framework and that a comprehensive public safety framework needed a whole lot more than emergency response. Why I tell folks all the time, do me a favor, indulge me for a moment. Get a child in your mind who you know and love. someone whose name you know whose face you can call up. Are you ready? When we think about that child's safety, a lot of times when I'm at political debates uh and in political atmosphere, when we talk about public safety, we're just talking about police and prisons and stuff. But when we talk about a child, we loves safety. I start thinking about car seats. I start thinking about outlet covers. I start thinking about gates on the stairs and Mr. Yuck stickers. I start thinking about every single thing we can possibly do to create an environment in which the terrible thing never ever happens. Our police chief, Axel Henry, who's in the room right now, talks really well about this. He talks about the history of bronze medals that our traditional public safety frameworks have won. The bronze medal being catching somebody after something bad has happened. After something bad has happened, we want to catch somebody. But that's not good enough if we love those folks. If we love those folks, the gold medal is never having called 911 in the first place because nothing terrible happened in the first place cuz we all work together to create a safe community in the first place. Did I get that close to right, Chief? All right. And so that's the work that we've set out doing. And and and we've started doing some really simple things. We've forever had instances where some neighbor gets in a fight with some neighbor and some neighbor shoots a neighbor and then one goes to the jail and one goes to the hospital and then one gets out of jail and one gets out of the hospital and guess what? They're still mad at each other. That's not surprising. And we suddenly have built this broader framework, this broader infrastructure that gives us the capacity to actually relocate somebody at least even temporarily to let things cool down. This is new to a city but it's not new to the neighborhood. Many of you know my father. One of the stories I know best about my father growing up was about when he would turned 25 and he lost two of his closest friends, two of his cousins in a double homicide about three blocks away from where we stand right now. And him and his cousins had a deal. He wrote about this in his book, so I'm not telling secrets. Him and his cousins had a deal. If somebody gets you, I'm going to get them. And in his book, my father writes about looking for this guy and never finding him and finding out probably two decades later, reading my grandfather's journal and finding out that my grandfather had gotten a hold of that young man's family and had paid for his ticket out of town to save his own child. This is stuff the community has gotten forever. So, I'm proud of how we're doing it, but I'm really proud of what we're doing as well. Uh I my state of the city address was what two weeks ago? It's May. What is it? May 8th. And do you know that in the year 2025, we are yet to experience a fatal incident of gun violence in our community in 2025. You may not have heard what I just said. I said that it is May 8th of 2025 and in the year 2025 the city of St. Paul has not experience one gunrelated homicide. We decided a couple years ago in my budget address and I'll be quiet and move on in a second but I'm really proud of this work. We decided a couple of years ago in my budget address I shared that our goal is to make St. call the best place on the planet to find opportunity and a second chance if you need one, the absolute worst place on the planet to fire a gun. We do not accept gunfire in this community. And we work together, uh, the chief and I, uh, to build a plan to be able to tell you and all of our neighbors that if somebody gets shot in the pinky toe in this city, I have a favorite, one of my favorite movies growing up, somebody gets shot in the pinky toe. And if somebody gets shot in the pinky toe in our city, we're going to show up and investigate and follow up on that as though we're a homicide. And what happened? We've seen in just two years our case clearance rate for nonviolent non non-fatal shootings almost triple. And I think the word is getting out that this is not the place to fire a gun. And that's thank you to the work of our police department, the leadership of our police department leadership team. That's thanks to a enormous amount of work uh on behalf of our uh office of neighborhood safety. That's thanks to the work uh that DSI does uh to help foster a safe environment in the first place. The the ultimate decision is that public safety isn't just the job of a police department. Public safety is the job of each and every single one of none of us have a job that's not about making our city safer. That's right. None of us. And so I'm I'm I'm just I'm just really proud of the the outcomes that we're getting. The final thing I'll say is this. My father whenever the phrase community policing would come up, my father would say that's a repetitive term. Yeah, I've heard him say many times and you know my if you know my dad, you know he's not always necessarily bound by the rules of the Oxford English dictionary. And he say if it ain't community, it ain't policing. And I love that that's the ethic of our city. I love that we understand through the structures that we're that we're here reporting out on today that trust can't be built, trust can't be established, trust can't be maintained in the dark. The type of relationship that we have to have between law enforcement and community requires public process. It it requires the type of transparency that we're exercising today. It requires tough conversations. The people who I love, we have tough conversations to maintain those relationships. The people who I love tell me when they disagree with me. And and our relationship doesn't break down because we have an agreement. Our relationship strengthens because there's disagreement sometimes. be if we know how to do it well, if we practice doing it right, if we do it in a way that invests in our relationship, we know that that the the the most sacred asset that we have to promote the safety of our community. We know that the safety of our community is the foundation upon which every other as uh uh aspiration we have for our community must be built. And we know that our most sacred and I'll say maybe our most fragile resource that we have for public safety is the trust, it's the relationships, it's the rapport that flows between community and our officers. And as an aside before I let go, I'll say two things. One, it's good to see you, Council Member Buy. Thank you for your leadership on this and many other issues. Thank you for your vote on housing yesterday to make sure that we're able to produce housing uh solutions into the future for our city. Um, I said two things and then I forgot the [Music] second. I got so carried away thanking the city council member. Um, um, uh, ultim I have no idea what I was going to say the second thing. Um, but trust me, it was going to be brilliant. Uh, it was going to be very, very good. Um, I'm proud of the work that we're doing. I'm proud of the outcomes that we're achieving. I'm proud of how we're doing it. I'm proud that we know as a community uh that that that we do better uh by expanding our teams, by expanding our trust, by expanding our Wii, not by trying to like lock it up uh into a into a tight circle. I'm I'm I'm proud that we know how to work through difficult things together. I'm proud that we shine a light uh everywhere that we know that we need improvement. I we know that we um are are not done uh doing this work. uh in fact uh where my relationships with my children or my relationships with my wife, my relationship with my parents, my relationship with everybody I actually love is concerned, I'm never done building trust. I'm never done building the relationship. I'm never done reinvesting. This is the work of all of us. Uh these are the uh results that we're all getting working together. And let me tell you, every single day of the week, I go to bed and sleep just a little bit better because all of you are our partners in public safety uh for our city. moving forward. Uh Beth, thank you. The work of uh Hero to help support this uh space is absolutely critical. Uh the work of our commissioners are absolutely sacred to our community. And without further ado, I think I'm introducing Sierra Cumberland uh who is the chair of our PCR. Ladies and gentlemen, Sierra Cumberland. All right, let's uh give a round of applause for Mayor Melvin Carter. Thank you, Mayor. We appreciate your time this evening. All right, folks. My name is Sierra. Um, and I am real thrilled to be here with all of you this evening. Um, this is my favorite time of the year. Um the and it's folks who are interested in public safety, curious about uh oversight here in St. Paul and looking to learn more about the PCR. So this is something that many of you may know, but um in 1990s was a time when many jurisdictions across the United States were being required to implement civilian oversight as a result of settlement agreements, consent decrees. But that wasn't the case here in St. Paul. Here in St. Paul, our mayor and our chief of police got together, our city leaders and city council recognized the importance of centering community perspective and the purpose of the PCR was then as it is now still today to assure the public that police services are delivered in a lawful and non-discriminatory manner and that complaints are dealt with fairly and with due regard for officers and citizens equally. So, we hope you don't need to file a complaint with the PCR, but we want you to know that if you have an encounter with a St. Paul Police officer that doesn't go as it should, you can file a complaint with us in the human rights department. Um, under state law, these complaints do have to be written and there needs to be a signature to them. So, I'm not able to take a complaint over the phone, but you can file a complaint online. I can email the form to you. You're welcome to come meet with us in city hall or I can come out into community and meet with you at a place such as Rond Library here. After complaints come in, they are investigated by our experts in the internal affairs unit. There are a lot of state laws that govern that work. Um so once those folks pull together a very thorough investigation, then it goes to the PCR and the PCR reviews the case and they will issue recommendations. So, an investigation, what all does that include, right? So, these commissioners get together and they have two weeks before the meeting, they receive access to these files and these are some hefty files. Um, I got to give a shout out to these commissioners because this work is not easy and it requires up to 20 hours per month of their time and dedication. So, these folks watch body cam footage. They watch in-car camera footage. They read all of the statements, all of the information that internal affairs investigators are able to compile. Then we come to our meeting. Um, if you're curious about PCR, one of the best ways to learn more is to attend one of our meetings. Um, you can join us in person or online. All that meeting info is available on our website. Uh, we have meetings at different locations around St. Paul. So in 2024 the PCR reviewed 52 cases and there's 124 total allegations. Now those are very different numbers right? So one complaint can come in and it can be about one officer or it can be about several officers. It can also include just one allegation, say improper procedure, which was the most common um allegation that we reviewed in 2024, or it could include multiple allegations, say excessive force and discrimination. That would be one complaint and two allegations. The commissioners are tasked with reviewing the complaint, reviewing all of the evidence, and then determining objectively were department policies violated. It's important to note that this process is independent from criminal court proceedings and civil litigation. Um, this is an internal accountability mechanism. So the PCR works to come to a disposition and they recommend whether or not there is sufficient evidence to support what the complainant is alleging in their complaint. You can see that in 2024, the most common disposition recommended is not sustained, followed up by exonerated, which is when the incident occurred of what the complainant said happened happened, but the officer didn't violate any policies or procedures. One other disposition that I want to call your attention to is policy failure because I think that's a really important role of the PCR of when they watch footage, they receive a complaint that what the complainant is saying happened, but the officer didn't violate department policies, but our community didn't receive the service that was needed. And there's an opportunity to update those policies. The SPD manual, I view it very much, it's a living document, right? um those folks are updating those policies constantly and the PCR commissioners have an opportunity to make recommendations for policy updates directly to leadership of the police department. So when the commission takes a look at this and they recommend the disposition of sustained, they also recommend a disciplinary action to the chief. So these range from oral reprimand all the way to termination and retraining is also something that can be added on to one of those other disciplinary recommendations. Here are the numbers of the disciplinary recommendations issued by the PCR in 2024. Um oral reprimand was far and above the most frequently recommended disciplinary action. So the commissioners make recommendations and so the chief of police is the one who makes the decision. He implements that disposition. In 2024, the chief of police, we call it a departure when he changes um makes a decision other than what the PCR recommended nine times and departed 15 times from disciplinary actions recommended by the PCR. Now that can be that the PCR recommended no discipline and the chief says well no actually I think a disciplinary action is appropriate here or it can be the reverse. So after the chief of police issues the decision, uh it's important to note police officers are absolutely union employees. And so if the chief of police implements discipline, an officer can file an appeal and he has the right to file a grievance and that process takes some time. After that full process is complete, only then does a complainant receive a letter informing them whether or not discipline was issued as a result of their complaint. So that is my very condensed overview of our PCR process here in St. Paul. Um soon we are going to have a panel where you are going to be able to ask your questions directly of the commissioners. Um but in the meantime I am going to call up Axel Henry who has been with the police department since 199 the St. Paul police department since 1998 and he has been serving as our chief of police since 2022. Chief Henry [Applause] Well, thanks everybody so much. Is the audio okay? I won't move this mic around. I want to thank you for being here. The PCR process is one of the most important kind of civic ways that you can volunteer or contribute to our process. Some people might might think that in the position that I hold within the city that a PCR or a review commission might be like the biggest pain in the butt part of my job. Um, and actually it isn't. It's it's one of the most important things and there's a really clear reason for that and I think um it will meld in very well with what you heard from the mayor and from our previous speakers in St. Paul. We don't believe in that phrase of like police and community relations. We believe the police department's a part of the community and if you're a part of something, your expectations are going to be higher. And a part of that is that we want to have other folks in our community looking at what we're doing, asking ourselves what works. And what that really does is it gives us an opportunity to get better. Some people look at high expectations and they deem them as a burden. We feel like our high expectations are a privilege. And I' I'd ask you to think about that in your own personal life, whether it's with your partner or whether a child or a parent. The opposite of having high expectations is having low or no expectations. And I don't think any of us want to work in environments like that. And we in the St. Paul Police Department certainly don't want to. Uh I would I'm really excited by the fact that we are our PCR board is now full. I would love to get to the point where we have a waiting list. Not that we're looking to get rid of anybody, but it would be great to have a deep bench. It's a really important way to serve in our city and to help our department be the best department it can be. Um, you've heard about some numbers. I just want to also add just a little flavor. Uh, about three times as many complaints as the PCRC's we internally generate. So, we are creating complaints all the time and they're coming from a myriad of process. every single use of force in our city and that's from everything from me having to put my hands on a person and simply walk them out of a bar maybe if they're inebriated is a use of force. Those are reviewed every single one of them by a deputy chief, three district chiefs, our training unit and other commanders. That happens literally week in and week out every time we do that. We also have tens of thousands of automated review processes. So, myself and senior commander John Linson that are seated there. As we were walking up today, as we walked past the little al cove there, whereas there's an exit door, there were a couple of unsheltered folks there and we stopped to check on them and one of them turned around and was uh finishing the last bits of a smoking substance in a glass ball pipe. We activated our cameras, of course, and we had a conversation and encouraged them that this was obviously not the right environment for that kind of behavior and there are kids here and that kind of a thing. uh didn't turn into arrest, didn't turn into use of force. What will happen automatically without any choice for us is because we get in the radio and we tell our dispatcher, we're here, we're doing this. That there's now a record created of that. In the next 24 to 48 hours, that system is going to go looking into our system and saying, "You two were there. Do you have footage?" So, it's going to want to know whether or not we recorded and if we didn't, it's going to come knocking on our door and say, "Where is your footage for that?" So we literally and we do that with speeding, we do that with our, you know, all the driving stuff, those types of things. So there's massive amounts of oversight that are happening in the background all the time. And the other thing that I want to address is um originally was stated that this year we saw an increase in the number of cases the PCR reviewed. Anybody have any speculation about how I feel about that? Someone said, "Good." Is that a surprise to anybody? I would love it if we didn't have any complaints. Let's not kid ourselves. That would be great. But I got news for you. We got a wonderful police department with wonderful officers that really care. But all of them are people and people make mistakes. And when I see upticks, my first instinct is not, "Oh my goodness, someone's doing something more wrong or we're failing." I think, you know, it might just be that people are feeling more confident and comfortable in making a complaint. My biggest concern is that there's someone out there that has a complaint but doesn't trust our process enough to pick up the phone and make the arrangements or come down and make the complaint. The process we have is going to look at it. The goal is not to walk around and slam things and say they're bad. Sometimes we have to do that. The goal is to make sure we are the best that we can be. What do NFL teams do after after games on a Sunday? They go back and watch that game. We now have cameras so we can watch almost everything we do and they say, "Did that work the way we wanted it to? Did it work as well as we wanted it to?" You know, they talked about exactly how we told them to do it and the outcome didn't turn out the way we wanted. Well, then we got to rethink that. The only way we get better is to put ourselves under the microscope and have that conversation. And so, I would just implore you that if you've ever considered doing something, even though we're full right now, do the things in preparation that allow you to be a part of it. Obviously, you need to be a city resident, but our uh civilian or civilian police academy is one of the the main things you have to do. We would love to have a deep bench of folks that are here. It is a super important task and it is not something that our police department, this police chief being me, or our officers actually resent. We appreciate it because as members of this community, we know the only way we get to be our best is if we as a community look at what we do and work together to make sure it's the very best it can be. Thank you so much. [Applause] Thank you, Chief Henry. All right, so our panelists are the commissioners that were introduced earlier. Uh, Chief Henry and we also have Commander John Kaj Jacob. I was looking at Commander John Linson. Commander John Kaj Jacob of the uh internal affairs unit. Shortly, uh, we will have the opportunity for folks to step up to our microphone and ask some questions. Um, but before we do that, I just want to throw out a general question of why PCR. Uh, would love to hear from a couple of our commissioners why they chose PCR and we heard some great things from the chief, but would also be great to hear from the internal affairs commander about uh, how the PCR adds value to your work. Sir, certainly. Thank you, Sierra. I think um one of the challenges in being in this position initially that I thought of was having that uh opportunity to look at our record of what our officers are doing and what I found in this position is the PCR is a great that so the day in and day out work that we do together is extremely beneficial not only for our community but also for uh our officers. So it's been it's been a great experience and a it's a great relationship. Thank you. Would one of our commissioners be interested in sharing why they joined the PCR? Um, we have four new new commissioners up here, folks. Half the people you see had their first meeting here uh yesterday and so they are brand new and they're already stepping up. [Applause] Well, I'm Nancy Rodenberg and I have been on PCR for three years and I re-uped for another three years. You're allowed to stay on for two, three-year terms. Uh, I came to this because it seemed very interesting. It fit my background really well. Uh I'm a social worker by training and a professor and I found that it is really interesting and I really feel like I have something important to be involved in for the city and I have really great conversations with my fellow commissioners. I'll go next web and I joined um I was the treasurer of the NAACP and they wanted a person of color on the board. So that's me and that's what I was told. Yeah. Well, that's how I was asked by No. And so, um, I came on because I'm passionate about policing. I had a brother-in-law killed in 1973 in Minneapolis by a Minneapolis police officer. He was shot in the back um when my sister was eight months pregnant with his child. And um because I have black sons and the I want to make sure that I have a relationship with the police in order to you know navigate their safety you know and just everything that's happened with policing from George Floyd and prior to that from EMTT till to today. And I just want to make sure that if you're going to complain, do something. Like they say, if if you complain about politics, make sure you vote. If you don't vote, don't complain. So, um I feel this is my second term and um I feel good about the work that I'm doing here. So, and um you know, I want to speak up against if I see discrimination or racism and um being an advocate for our people. So, that's why I'm here and I stay here because of that. So, thank you. While we have folks line up at the mic, um if you have any questions. Excellent. our uh our technician professionals are getting the mic ready to go in the center of the room there. Um but while they do that, um commissioners, I talked about those dispositions earlier, sustained, not sustained, policy failure, and all of that evidence. Um what types of things do you take into consideration when you are making a recommendation to Chief Henry? Everything. Yeah, I was going to say I try to take and try to keep like the emotions out of it and try to look at the policy and the situation um an even even side and just again the emotions you really need to take out of it and just look at it holistically. Excellent. Thank you. And a slight update for those of you who know Beth Comr is a very active director and so if you've got a question, please raise your hand and Beth will come right on over to you. Let me ask real quick. Sorry. No, I just wonder when the recommendations are made to the chief, do you do this in person or is it online? Do you speak with each other or debate? Yeah. So, the PCR meeting, would one of you all talk about what that's like to hold the deliberation? Sure, I can talk about that. We discuss it amongst ourselves. We vote and make determinations. Coordinator Cumberland then writes all of that down in a summary for the chief and sends recommendations over to him. And then if he were to choose to depart from our recommendations, I as the chair receive a letter and I have the opportunity then to meet with the chief to discuss that departure um and have a conversation about decisions being made about kind of why the departure happened, what were some of the factors, and that's really informative for us in figuring out um kind of what it is that the chief is looking at when he's talking about discipline as well. Thank you. Can I add something to that? Of course, please. So, um the requirement is that when I make a departure and I notify them, we have to meet within 5 days. So, this isn't something that happens sometime to your question, that happens, uh electronically. We meet via Zoom meeting and so we're able to, you know, cuz we we have to set it up per the ordinance. And so, there's about four variations that could happen. Uh PCR could say that we felt this was sustained and this is the discipline. And I could say I don't think it should be sustained. So I'm saying that I don't it's one of the other reasons that's on there. They could say I think it's sustained and it should be this level like a suspension and I could say I agree that it stays sustained but I think it should be a written. It could be that they think it should be sustained and it's a written and I think I disagree. I think it should be sustained but be a suspension. Or it could be that they think that it should be not sustained for some reason, not not a punishment, and I say, "Well, I appreciate that, but I actually think there is a problem, and I'm going to sustain it for something above it." So, there's really four things, but we sit down and then talk about that to make sure that they understand um why it is that I put the reasons in writing, of course, but that we have a we have a discussion uh to talk about where that why that departure is happening and why it took place. Thank you, Chief. Oh, um yeah, I think the question is for you, Chief. Um so, looking over this chart on page 13, it looks like that's the um kind of description of those departures. Um just kind of glancing over it, I'm noticing like the first top two the recommendation was termination. Um and then one resulted in a 5-day suspension, the other resulting in a 7-day suspension. Um, it seems like out of the 15 here, I think only two of them were ones you chose to do something where they recommended none, where the other, I guess 13, assuming assuming it's 13, um, the departure was a lower um, lower than the recommendation of the commissioners. Um, I guess I'd be curious as to how that's determined specifically if that's something that as like a community member I have access to understanding like why if there's documentation of why um just a little bit of information describing that. I mean to me I guess like termination to a 5-day suspension is like uh that's a big gap that we're between. Yep. So remember, it's important to remember that our PCR board are uh obviously civilian members of our community and although they're very very bright people, they aren't that none of us are are true or they're true experts in discipline. So it will happen that a recommendation is made that I know from our city attorney's office because I will run these by um that would never survive a cont. So if let's say for example I fired the person, they would grieve that and they would get their job back. And so I have to balance the fact of past practice and what we know about labor law and all the other things that have happened in the past to make sure that I don't come over too heavy and then lose it because the worst thing that we can do when we're holding people accountable is to have that process not stay intact. Uh I am very grateful that the entire time that I've been the chief, and that's been since November of 2022, we have not lost a grievance in that manner. and certainly not on a serious one. And the demotions that I've had to perform have not been flipped back around or any of those things. And so we have to make sure that we're doing it in a way that will survive a process of grievance. Sometimes there is already labor law and past practices out there that say given that type of violation, we see this quite a bit. if an employee breaks the law and then has because what happens if you let's say I go out and get a DWI, I'm going to have to deal with all the legal ramifications from that and after that's over, I'm going to get an internal complaint. Uh, and so we look back on every previous employee that's had the similar violation and what we typically give them or they they they have to incur for that. And so that's why things like that happen for the most part. Thank you. Uh, we have a question over here, please. Okay, I have two questions here. Um, why is this so hard to get in to get a appointment time to speak with the chief of police? I I'd have first off have to know who you reach out to, but uh the schedule that I have is one that was probably the most uh most surprising thing when I got this job. So, my time is literally filled in and out. My executive officer is sitting right there. So, um, they usually are trying to get you in touch with someone that could probably handle your problem more directly because a lot of folks want to meet with me. And of course, the very first thing we determine is I'm not the right person that can help you with that immediate problem. And our city is divided up in such that you basically have three different districts that have a district chief. And so, a lot of times the very best place to start is in that district. And so it may be that um they don't truly understand what the complaint is or they're more likely trying to get you in touch with the right person to deal with that if that makes sense. Commander K Jacob can help Ocean get a contact too. All righty. My second question is a as a person with a disability, I myself made a complaint and was only told that um nothing would happen because when I while I was making a police report, a police officer uh called me crazy. So, uh, it really upsets me for the fact that it's okay to let them get away with, uh, saying that to me. Thank you. Is that you saying, um, I apologize. What was what's the question? Well, basically the question is, did that how the departments work that it's okay for an officer to call somebody crazy when they going in to make a police department? Well, of course not. and I'd have to know about the specific case, but you should know that every officer on a call would be wearing a body camera. So, if indeed that were true, um, if we learned about the complaint or even if you just called up, even if you didn't make a, in that case, you wouldn't even need to make a formal complaint. You could call any supervisor and the first thing that would happen is, so let's say you didn't go down to PCR and make the complaint, the one that you have to have in writing. But you called the district or you called any leader on our department and we looked into that. We can, as long as the video has now been uploaded, which it would be at the end of the day, and we looked, even if you didn't make a complaint and that statement was made to you on recording, we would create a complaint on it now. So we would basically say that's not good enough. But um my goal is that you feel comfortable in coming in making that complaint and coming in because um that wouldn't be acceptable behavior as the way you described it. That absolutely that someone shouldn't be referring to to you in that manner or those types of things. So and the good news is that we record it and that's why of course when I was saying that we run that automatic audit for every call we go on and why we would be flagged right away if we didn't have a video. My position has been and I was the person who brought the body camera program or developed the body camera program for St. of all is it is not typically the video we record that's going to get us in trouble. Although it could in this situation. It's the video we don't record because can you imagine how a community member feels if you said that's what happened. We go to look at my body camera video and I am like oh I didn't record that. What would we all think? Well, you probably did say it. And so that's why we are such sticklers about recording it. Why we automatically run everybody all the time to make sure that you've created a video. Now, sometimes those audits don't turn they they might turn into I turned on the the camera for this call, never shut it off, and then went to the next call or dealt with the next incident. And so they they say you we don't have a video for this incident over here. But then when they look, they realize, well, I recorded the whole thing. So they just tied two case numbers to one video. Uh but when we find out that someone didn't record a video that they should have recorded, then there's discipline that gets involved with that. And that's that part that we do internally automatically. All right. Thank you, sir. Um, good evening. I just u I have a question about the process. So um just for reference I'm uh a social worker of born and raised in St. Paul. I work with policy. I read write review policy at the state level. Um I've also worked um for the NRB. So I understand when you know sometimes if a complaint is made or if um an employee is disciplined they obviously have the right to grieve that and sometimes those things are turned over. My question is about policy and I can't remember who who spoke on it specifically, but when you're reviewing policy, sometimes somebody may not have done something illegal, but they may have done something perhaps unethical, disrespectful, but it didn't violate policy. I've been on both sides of that. Um, and how often, I guess, are you reviewing policies to ensure that these policies are applicable, these policies are outdated, these policies need to be updated with the times, so to speak. I mean, because often times it's the policy that's the problem as opposed to the individual or the past practice. So, I know that was a lot to just kind of ask your policy. How do you handle that? because that's that's a big part of process. Thank you. So our policies are reviewed literally daily uh in the sense that we are constantly look at everything. So the use of force is a perfect example of that where every force gets looked at. So we're we're tweaking those and on top of that as everything that comes in that we review and we we overlay the policy on top of it to make sure that that policy still marries up with what we want for the behaviors for our people. The other thing that automatically happens is if a policy hasn't been reviewed by a certain date and they're all dated just like statutes are, um that automatically says we haven't had an overlay on this policy for a while, but we see now that it's been in existence for let's say 12 or 18 or 24 months and we are still going to review it because we know that some some things may not apply to something that we've actually had to look at, but it's been enough time that we want to make sure we're looking at it to make sure that it's updated. In fact, we just went through another one of those processes. And I believe that's the third since I've been the chief of police where we just went through just on dates alone without actual triggers that would say that policy was out of compliance. And that's the third one since I've been or that's just started, but the third one and I've been the chief for 27 months. So, it typically is happening even more frequently than like a calendar year. And we mentioned earlier about how the PCR also has the ability to issue policy recommendations. Uh would one of the commissioners mind talking a bit about what that is like on your side? It's like you could read my mind. I will tell you this is the thing that happens. This is something that does happen where we are reviewing the footage. We are reading the report. We are seeing uh the complaint and we are looking at the policies and we're saying technically this does not violate policy but there's something not okay and it just doesn't feel right. And what our role is is to either specifically say this is a policy failure which becomes kind of a new disposition. Um or we can have a conversation about it. I think Commander Kacob hears a lot of times uh a lot of questions we have about policies why they are what they are. Senior Commander Linson has been hearing them a lot lately because he's been in our meetings as well. So we do I think question that and that's one of the things I take very seriously and I think all the commissioners do is to really interrogate are are our policies covering the things that we that we actually see happening that communities are really concerned about. And if I could just add something uh and the domestic violence area is a perfect example of this. Um when we saw the spike we saw it at the same time they did. So when they came to us and said, "We have some recommendations." We were like, "Well, good, cuz we're already starting some things." And sometimes it isn't the policy that's failed, it's that we failed the officers in the policy. And what I mean by that is our policy has said, "We want you to do X, Y, and Z when you go to a call like this." And over time, whether it's by supervision or something, the the the workforce has just started to not do the Z part. they just they don't do that last piece and that's just been allowed or something's happened or some something has stimulated the folks to think that that we don't need to do that anymore. And so that tells us right away we have to double down on this again. Do and so our department because we do quarterly training all the time. We'll either create roll call information that goes out immediately or add it to the quarterly training to say listen. Let's pull this back out. Let's dust it off. It's X Y and Z. Z is just X and Y don't matter if you don't also do Z to make sure they're doing that. And the policy itself says that, but the employees just weren't living up to it. And a lot of times it's not because they're trying to avoid the right thing. It's that they've just over time, it's that discipline to it has been eroded. Can you add one thing to that? For sure. So, kind of to echo uh what Chief Henry said in that regard, too. There's lots of times where we're reviewing cases that don't result in discipline, but we see something in there that we think we can do better, and that might result in a coachable moment for that employee where we say, are we being the best that we can be? and we might see something that doesn't result in formal discipline, but it results in a retraining or a coaching session to help get that person up to that that high standard that the chief and our department has of our officers. We have a question over here. Um I don't know if it's so much as a question, but maybe it is. So, I sit in the office of the NAACP, the St. Paul branch here. And so some of the complaints that um that I get in um in regards to um and maybe this might be a different entity because the county jail and I know that's the sheriff's department, but um individuals that call in to try to make a complaint uh with IIA and um where they're saying they just constantly um the phone is ringing or no one has returned my phone call. Um, I just want to be able to better um direct individuals on how to get through um if it's going online or if it's um contacting um PRC here um to get their complaint in. Um and some of the complaints that um that have been really big um coming from out of the county jail because these calls are just coming and they're free and so they're able to call. So, um, they were talking about food, not being able to eat or getting water, um, being restrained for a long period of time, um, not getting their medication. A gentleman that was on heart medication was not given his medication for three days, but then they released him because of his condition and he ended up in the hospital for a couple of days because he was without his heart medication. And I know that when it comes in that it has to have the label and all that on it. It has to be intact so that they can take it in. And he it goes to the health and then they're able to give him the medicine, but he they didn't give him his medicine. And so that was another complaint. And then another one was um someone complaining about pain in the arm that they ignored for a couple of days. And so I just want in the jail. Yeah. In the jail. So I just want to be aware. and then the parent or the mother or someone's calling in to put in this complaint or trying to reach IIA and and they're saying that it has been unsuccessful. Um and with these been um built up around health, I'm the health chair. Yeah. So I actually took it over myself and I just went down to the um county and and I was able to speak with someone in regards to the complaint. So we've been able to work together. So my thing is just like my pastor which is the um president for the state NAACP and much respect for him. Amen. And everyone that is here, um Chief Axel Henry, um and so um um just being able to work together, you know, as one, you know, community, you know, and making sure that um um things are going well and that we're able to build, you know, and see things change um in policy and wherever it needs to change at. And so I just wanted to share some of those complaints. And so when they do come in, um I I I look at Shenikica um uh Johnson. and I hope I said her name right over Ward 7. So, who would be the commissioner um for the St. Paul um branch area that um maybe I could connect with um to share? Thank you. And before I turn it over to the panel, I want to say um Miss Patricia, you can give me a call anytime. Um though, I do. Yes, ma'am. Um so, the PCR process is specifically about complaints for St. call police, but we will absolutely I get calls all the time about folks in other jurisdictions and I'm I'm here to work with folks to find the appropriate entity um for filing those complaints. Uh Commander K Jacob, do you have suggestions about Ramsey County specifically? Uh yes, just uh pointing out that they're a separate entity than St. But one of the fortunate parts about my job is I think we are so easy to get a hold of that I get complaints from agencies emailed or called to me from all over the state of officers uh community members that have dealt with officers in different communities and I'm always happy to refer them to that agency. So, one of the fortunate parts about this position is I' I've had the opportunity to build relationships with other internal affairs. So your your questions and concerns are extremely important. Um even though they're outside of the realm of St. Paul, that's a conversation I will have with Ramsey County. I will echo your concerns with them and make sure that that gets brought to their attention. And if I could just add one more point, you can imagine if it was a car mechanic or a doctor or anything else. Um obviously we'd like you to get a direct portal right into that agency so you can deal with it. But we have Metro Transit police officers that operate in St. Paul, Ramsey County Sheriff's Office, you know, all kinds of different people. Just know if you get a hold of us and it turns out we're not the right entity. It's a it we do recognize that sometimes a a civilian who isn't maybe familiar with the process might feel like they're running into a brick wall. When Commander K Jacob calls any agency in the state and says, "I'm the internal affairs commander for the St. Paul Police Department and I've got a report that was accidentally given to me that I'm here now given to you." What do you think happens to the level of severity of how that complaint is treated? It shouldn't get any more serious, but it does because now that agency also knows on top of everything else, we're aware of it and we might actually follow up on it ourselves and say, "Did that get handled?" Because I know none of us want to walk out in community and tell someone, "Yeah, I'll make that connection for you." And then I turn around 5 days later and find out that that connection was never actually achieved. And so again, we don't want to be the couriers for that. But whether it's the PCR or whether it's us, we are going to work to get you connected with the right resource that that can help with that prop. Yeah. I actually have a question for the chief um with the PCR and the departure letter and it just seems like and I haven't had the experience. I didn't ask. I should have last night. But when we get the departure letters, is that like final? Like if I disagree with you, I know we're already disagreeing because you changed you departed from our decision, but if I feel um strongly about it, am I able to have a conversation with you or do I funnel it through the chair and just say I, you know, I feel strongly about your decision. Is that allowed? So the PCR chair could probably answer the mechanical piece because I don't know that I could say to you whether or not your process would allow you to do that. What I will say is of course it's not final because if it were actually final, there would be no need to meet. So we do meet to make sure that something that was hasn't missed or wasn't considered happens there. Now whether or not that changes it doesn't mean that that isn't the possibility. So that's why the meeting occurs. Now, if your question is we meet, we explain it, I don't depart, it goes back to you and then now there's like an appeal to that. I don't believe that's a part of the process and but I I would let the PCR can answer that. So, I receive departure emails and they are kind of the draft, if you will, and then I have the opportunity to meet with the chief to discuss that. And that could potentially be me attempting to persuade the chief that in fact he was wrong and we were right. Um I review you know the discussion that we have. So part of it is that it is my responsibility to be able to convey the things that you all say in the meeting to make sure that it's understood what's happening. Um, but after that conversation, then the chief will issue that that official final letter and then there that's that's usually unfortunately when we get to the point where we're having that discussion as a commission, it's after that point. So, um, it's not a perfect process, right? Thank you. And just for the crowd too, the letter itself, the departure letter doesn't just say no. It actually gives all the reasons in there. And I'm very proud of the fact that the feedback that I received when I became the chief was that the letters got way better. They were way more inclusive in explaining what was going on about the intent and the reason and all the other issues that are there. So I second that. Yeah, I think we have time for one more question. Yeah, and I can confirm that. Chief, you're the third chief who's been doing this work since I've been in the city and your letters have been received much better. So no shade on past administrations. No, no. Um, yeah, I have I have a question. Uh, my name's Larry Baker. I'm married to Nancy, one of the commissioners, and so I've been somewhat familiar with your process and actually attended as a tagalong spouse your national meeting, uh, two years ago in Chicago, and was even more impressed. Um, anyway, uh, my question though is this process seems really quite legitimate and and useful and all that. Do you get fewer uh lawsuits and particularly payouts um for um inappropriate behavior and you know getting sued and and having to pay out a lot of money? I know in some police departments there are you know millions of dollars are spent every year on this. Is St. Paul less? It would it would strike me that it would be with all the work that you do. Well, I'm going to knock on wood again here because uh when the mayor was talking about our uh non-fatal and fatal shooting numbers, I I'm not suspicious or superstitious about most things, but that's one of the things. Um you know, it's hard to say that uh the timeline for legal cases uh even the one the like for since I've been the chief, there's been a couple legal uh judgments ruled against uh the city. They happened before I was I was a police officer here, but I wasn't the chief. And of course, the chief doesn't necessarily control that. Um I think there are es and flows to that. The other comparison that's super important for folks to consider is that the world um with the some of the big national lawsuits that have happened have kind of changed what is the normal amount that gets given out. So you may have I I would argue that there are probably less actual lawsuits that are achieved and successfully had but the amounts have certainly skyrocketed over the years. So, uh, you know, it could be that I could get done with my term and be a person with very, very few lawsuits that occurred, whatever, but the next chief could come in and then those lawsuits percolate to the surface after I'm gone. So, it's one of those things that are going on. I think um a process like ours uh at every level that's reviewing things certainly drops that measure down. And I would tell you um the reason why our officers like it and why I like it is the level of confidence that people have when they think the PCR looked at it and we looked at it and this is what it was. So even if it's yeah I got a letter in my file saying that that wasn't good enough that you know that that was looked at and you can feel like that was a fair process and that it wasn't going to because most people are fine with taking responsibility for their actions. They just don't want to get over punished. You know, you can imagine if you have a kid at home and and your brother gets grounded for a day for doing something and you get two weeks and you're like, "Well, hello. Can I have a, you know, can I have something more consistent?" Uh, that kind of a thing that our officers know. A lot of most of the time they're willing to come in. And in fact, it's one of the things that I balance when I look at their responses is particularly on the internal complaints is were they contrite? Did they actually take ownership for their behavior? The thing I hate more than mo almost anything and and these guys know this and I bet you'll all identify is when someone makes all kinds of excuses for why they did what they did and I'm just like could you please just own the fact that you were maybe a little rude or something like that and I I I think that's super important and I I want officers that will take ownership for their behavior. All right, thank you so much everybody. Um I know that there are probably more questions. Um we will all still be here. Uh we are reaching the end of our time. Um so I would like to invite Vice Chair Forstrom to come up and close us out. Uh let's give a round of applause to our panel. Thanks everybody. All right. On behalf of the PCR Commission, I'd like to extend our heartfelt gratitude for each of you for joining us this evening. Um it is truly inspiring um that so many of our dedicated um community members gathered for our annual summit. Your presence um reflects the comm community our commitment to our shared objective and we are sincerely appreciative of the time and energy you have devoted to being here tonight. Um the annual summit serves as an essential platform for fostering transparency and accountability to the community members of St. Paul regarding the work undertaken by the PCR commission. Uh as we conclude, we have provided a survey that is written and a QR code back on that table and we are strongly encouraging everybody to complete that. Um please provide your honest and constructive um insights. It's invaluable for helping us um um understand what is effective and what we can improve upon. And additionally, like everybody has stated, um if you are interested in joining me and any of my fellow commissioners on the PCR, um we encourage you to apply and you can go to stpaul.gov/pcr for more details. So, thank you everybody. Have a wonderful evening.