All right. Any changes to the agenda? Uh, yes, Mr. Mayor and Council. We've provided a revised revised agenda um for your review. Um, there have been a couple items which have been added to the agenda. Item number one is to K under consent agenda to approve compensation for permanent easement for St. Nicholas Catholic Church. Um due to the timing on the downtown recon project and the timing to our next meeting, um we wanted to get it on the council agenda. Tonight, the church just approved it earlier this week. And then item um L, which is a reapproval for the third time of the master contract between the state of Minnesota and the city of Elenu Market related to the uh municipal state aid program. If you recall, they had us approve an agreement. Then they said, "Oops, we gave you the wrong agreement." So, we approved it again. Then they said, "Oops, you guys need to do it by resolution." So, you guys have already approved this a couple times already. You just have to do it by resolution. Well, we're getting good at it. Any other changes? That co cover everything? That would be everything, Mr. Mayor. Motions. Motion to approve agenda as amended by Kate. Second. Who is that? Amanda. Amanda. Second by Amanda. All in favor? I presentations, proclamations, and acknowledgements. Chief Scott, you know, I I have a couple things I want to say. Um I think Tom does as well. Tom, you want to go first? Sure. So, Chief Brady Juul uh started with us in March of 2019. And I have to say that from the very beginning, Chief Juul embodied the essence and core of leadership and community engagement, which is core to our policing philosophy. His infectious optimism, um the glasses always half full in Brady's world and sky always blue. uh his outgoing personality and his approachability made him not only an exceptional leader for the police department but also a true representative of the department's values and our city's values. His background and experience served as the cornerstone on which the department has continued to grow um and evolve over the past several years. Uh Brady's dedication and hard work has been nothing short of exemplary. It's been an honor and a privilege uh to work with him as his city administrator. Um he has been committed to the community and continuously building upon the community values-based philosophy of the department. Under his guidance, we've witnessed the growth and maturing of the police department with the addition of new positions, the establishment of crucial partnerships with other entities, and increased engagement within the community. During the last several years, he's been busy. Um when he started, he was immediately put into the position of having to build a new police department, a process that had just gotten underway. The department also added four officer positions in his time year. And during and also a sergeant position. And during that time, he's hired eight police officers to fill newer vacant positions. His impact also extended beyond just our community. He emerged as a respected leader within the county. He served as the president of the Scott Carver uh Chief Law Enforcement Officer Association and he's currently director on the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association board. His initiatives for engagement in the community included the ever popular Lunch with the Chief program at Eagle View Elementary and his involvement with organizations like Southern Valley Alliance have touched lives of many um and continue to demonstrate his commitment to service, the law enforcement field and his general compassion as a human being. As Chief Juul embarks on his new chapter and his law enforcement journey, um we're sad to see him go, but we are profoundly grateful for the legacy he has left. His dedication and passion have had an impact on the department and on the community. As the saying goes, leave a place better than you found it. And this would certainly be the case here. It's with deep appreciation and heartfelt gratitude that on behalf of the city mayor, the city council, the city of Elco New Market and its residents. Um, we would like to recognize you for your service to the community. And as you venture on your new endeavor, we extern our warmest wishes for success and fulfillment. And may your path ahead be filled with continued achievements, meaningful experiences, and endless opportunities to make a positive impact wherever you are. Nice job, Tom. I wanted to just share a few things. Um about a week ago when um this or maybe a little bit longer than a week ago whenever the Savage Police Department announced that you'd be uh heading there, I put something on Facebook and I want to read to you some of the responses um from members of the community. Uh first one, he was the best. You'll be missed in our community. Next one. Thank you for your incredible service to the community. Next, great loss for Elco Market. He will be missed. We will miss him. He is surely a great police chief and our kids love him. Good luck, Brady. We will miss you, Chief Juel. You were a wonderful asset to our community and a great leader. Thank you for everything you've done while serving our community. Your leadership will be missed. A man happy for him, but sad for us. No, Chief Brady is a great asset to this community. This is a huge loss for Elco. It is extremely important who we hire as chief and he exceeds expectations. Good luck in Savage. And the last one I'll read, Chief Juel, you will be missed. You'll be so missed. So grateful for all you did for the community. Love getting to make your coffee all those years. Thanks for all your leadership and best wishes. I wanted to read this because this is directly from people in the community, people you've touched. Um, I think it really speaks to your leadership, your community engagement. Um, when we brought you on as police chief, I I remember in the interviews, I remember thinking, "This guy's just too happy. It's it's almost annoying to some respect." That said, your uh your positive attitude is absolutely infectious. Um, you've left an impact or you've made your impact um everywhere in this community. And as mayor, I can't thank you enough. Um, anyone else have anything you wanted? No, I mean I thank you. Uh, I mean, I can think of the times where I would shoot a text and you'd be sitting on the beach in Hawaii or something and actually respond. Um, you know, the kids absolutely adore you. Um, and I think as both uh Tom and Joe said, you embody and model everything that I think we want that most communities want in their officers and and you know your officers are a reflection of that and I know it'll continue. So, um, you're going to continue to change stuff up. We're going to stay connected. You're going to, you know, do some cool stuff in Savage and Scott County and everywhere else. But um just appreciate the attitude, the the creativeness, too. I mean, I I think of I don't know if it was during COVID or sometime, you know, I I brought a whole bunch of my team down here that needed to get background checks or fingerprinting or stuff done and we made it happen and we got we got my nurses on board and we got people uh to do what they needed to do. So, just just I don't know, you were always there. Um we appreciate you so much and thank you for everything. I get a plaque for you, chief. Awesome. And is it okay if I take 30, 40 minutes? Why change now? Yeah, right. I'm going to do my best to stick to the script. Um, mayor, council, and all those attending today. Uh, as we gather here for this, my final Elco market council meeting, I'm filled with both gratitude and a touch of nostalgia. When I first stumbled upon the job posting for this p position, I must confess I had to look up where exactly Elco New Market was situated. Um, I was familiar with the Speedway, but one of those I had no idea where it was. Um, and what a discovery. Um, first and foremost, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to the city administrator, Tom Terry. Uh, and I'm sincere when I say this, your guidance and mentorship have been invaluable to me. Uh, you've illuminated the path to strike that delicate balance between the needs of the employees and those of our community members. Um, showing me that they're very linked. Um, offscript for a moment, all your city is is its city employees that serve it. if you do not take care of them, um they can't take care of your community. So, you can really show the quality of a community and its members by how well they treat the people that serve it. And this community treats everyone so well. Um and that goes to show with taking care of the police department, um with building and investing in a new community, uh police department, um and then taking care of the employees. And it's not just pay, it's the attitude, it's the benefits, it's um holding them to a high regard enough um to sacrifice so much to make sure they're taken care of. It's greatly appreciated. Um to the mayor and the council, those who were here during the hiring process, um I extend my sincerest thanks. you've entrusted me with this role and I'm deeply appreciative for the opportunity to serve along um such other dedicated individuals. The Elen Market City Council sets the standards of excellence that I've rarely seen matched. Your commitment to this community is unparalleled and it's been an honor to work alongside you. I have worked for four municipalities, four councils, and at, as you can imagine, 23 years at Chaza, I saw a lot of councils and a lot of mayors, and I will put you against anyone. Your dedication to the community, whether I agree with all the decisions you make or not, your heart is to protect this community, and that's wonderful. Next, I want to acknowledge the incredible members of our city staff. Your warmth and support have been uh made every day a joyous experience. The collaborative spirit that permeates our work environment truly makes us feel like a family. Together we've tackled numerous projects and the positive impact of our efforts resonates throughout the city. Um thank you for your unwavering dedication. Um the police department isn't just one entity. It has to works with everyone and the projects we've worked on, the code enforcement we worked on, um even with the council, the uh ATV ordinance, that's a big deal and a lot of communities don't get it right like we did and just collaboratively was wonderful. Last, but certainly not least, I want to express my deepest appreciation to the members of the police department. This was a ship that was going in the right direction. So my predecessor um I commend him and uh for all the hard work he did as well. Each one of the members brings a unique perspective. Very unique with some of them. I'll say that. Um uh unique perspective and unwavering commitment to our community. In a small department like ours, teamwork and flexibility are essential. And you have exemplified these qualities. Admirable. Oh, wait. None of them are here. Uh, they were here earlier. I promise there was cake. Um, I've worked alongside countless officers throughout my 29-year career, and I can say with confidence that the members of our department rank among the best. As I embark on this new journey, I want you all to know that you have profoundly impacted me both personally and professionally. You've challenged me. Tom's challenged me a lot. Ah, my patience most time. No, just kidding. Uh, inspired me and ultimately you've made me a better leader. For that, I am truly and deeply grateful. In closing, I want to say that I will miss each and every one of you dearly. Though I may be leaving the lessons I've learned and the memories we've shared will stay with me forever. Um, thank you for your support, your friendship, and your unwaver unwavering dedication to this community. It's greatly appreciated. So, I I felt the love and I want to give the love back because this is a a wonderful thing. Um, I know my replacement has that severe dedication, unconditional respect for this community and uh he'll keep this direction, this department moving in the right direction. So, thank you guys for your time. Thank you community members. I really appreciate everything. Thank you. [Music] Are you crying yet? No. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, let's open up to public comment. Is anyone here to You know the drill. All right. Come on up. Been here for a couple years now. Yep. I actually wrote compiled my last two years of notes. Good evening, Chief. I'll miss you. I'll speed through Savage just for you. Um just for the record, so we get back on track. I'm Jody to Jod Lucas 26501 Xerxes Trail. Thank you. Um, good evening. Um, for those of you who don't know me or my whatever my person, I was raised by a couple of college professors who taught me the meaning of working hard, keeping your word, talk to the person that you need answers from directly, and that actions in any situation will show a person in true character. and believe it when you see it. I feel that the city has lost its way with its lack of concern over people that live here, including our neighbors in New Market Township. We have residents that have lived there for decades who are now being tortured by sounds and vibrating ground at all hours of the day. I personally was at a house near the site. These residents have families, young children ages seven and five that cannot go to bed at a decent time. No one can enjoy being outside because you can't hear each other. And the torturous part is they don't know how long they can live there. Company foreman from Louisiana was threatening one of the residents for virtually asking a questions. They now gated off a construction site with, no offense to you, more police presence at one site than I've ever seen in the town in all my years. I mean, these are residents. They're not going to do anything. But the residents are assumed to be telling fares and being villains and this outsider company is the victim. It makes no sense to me. I've sat here for a very, very long time. Some nights missing other meetings. I'm involved in a lot of foundations. I've missed family gatherings. I've missed a lot of important basketball games. Go Hawkeyes. Um, I truly believe if I was not here to ask questions or listen, I wouldn't know. I'm now concerned that because I am here, a lot of business is talked about outside of these public meetings, which is unacceptable and I can't tolerate it. Another resident near me uh stated that he reached out to inquire if he had interference and had to connect to city sewer and water. Would the city pay for it since it's not what he wanted? He was told no. again creating undue stress to a residence. I also received an email from the DNR that Rich is now my point of contact if I have any well interference. At what point will the city reach out to us and tell us what's going to happen? How is it going to be remediated and who is responsible for it? Which leads to another boiling point for me as a resident that when we agreed to or when it was decided to take an out ofstate company in to our water, they have no skin in the game. Absolutely none. Leaving the city completely open to liability, meaning us, the residents, because it'll be passed on to us, which seems to be a bad business practice for the city. a fantastic deal for a water bottling plant. Also, giving that kind of benefit to one business but not another isn't good business practice for attempting to be a business friendly city or are we just friendly to industrial users? I absolutely love this city. I have spent countless hours in different committees meeting people and creating events to bring this city to a community which is important. But there is no room for any growth as a community unless there's huge improvement in communication, transparency, and care from the city to help create a better community. It is time for less talk and more action to show us that you truly care about the res residents and the current businesses that are actually here servicing the city residents and the surrounding community. As always, I will be here listening and watching. I'm also here to say that if our city does not engage, we will just be a city that isn't a community and mainly just an exit to a water bottling plant. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to respond to a few of those things. Okay. Can I Is it engagement or you just going to respond? I Whatever you'd like to do. I'd like to I like engagement. Go. You know, I like up here. But some of this I'm not really looking for a response on. you spoke so I'll I'm going to speak to you. Okay. First I'm going to start by saying we are not going to rehash the Niagara thing. Okay. Oh, we accept that. We accept it. Jody, I'm talking. Okay. So, for months, maybe a year, we've been having public comment with folks talking about Niagara. Look, we're not going to agree on Niagara. Niagara is moving forward. Right now, we're at the point where we're waiting on an appropriations permit, and that's where it's at. We're not going to have another vote on it. We're not going to change our opinion. Niagara is moving forward if the appropriation permit goes through and we understand that. I have more to say. Okay. So, as far as having continuous public forums where we're continuing to talk about Niagara, let's just accept that you don't like it, that many community members don't like it, but it's still moving forward. I'm I'm not going to try and plate anyone on this. We've we've done plenty of that. So, as far as some of the other things, okay, the police presence, I personally am offended by the comment you made. Okay, I had my tires slashed. I had death threats come my way. There's been a lot of stuff that hasn't been publicized about that. So, yeah, there is a reason to have increased police presence. The next thing I'm going to say as far as outside business being conducted, please provide some evidence. If you have some proof that we're doing things behind the scenes, bring it forward because that's never happened under my watch. It's never going to happen under my watch. So, I'll be just as upset as you are. Okay. The last thing I'm going to say is regarding well mitigation. Well mitigation, site issues. Um, I see Larry's here. I know he's had some frustration with it. Those are fair game. Those are we can discuss those. If there's a way as a city that we can do a better job, we're going to do it. Um, Jody, I've I've mentioned it before. I appreciate everything you've done for this community. I'm appreciate everything you're going to continue to do for this community. And it's not it's not that I'm not It's not that I don't want to be sensitive to some of the concerns here. I just don't want to keep having the same conversations if nothing's going to be changed. If there's things that we can address, absolutely. Let's address them and let's tackle them. Let's address the hours because I was over at two in Pillsbury and you can't hear anything and those families deserve some solace and at least a little bit of enjoyment outside. We're going into the summer. We're we're miles past Niagara coming. We know. But have some sensitivity to the residents around there. And you're spot on. you know, I mean, cut it off at 6. Let them have from six to it's dark out and, you know, just have some decency with the people that we're dealing with. And with the police part, I'm just saying they're at the gate. What are we going to do to the ground? I mean, it's raw dirt right now. We're not going to do anything. And I'm sorry you got all that. That's some crap. The original group of us, we're not that way. I'm going to come up here and stand and talk to you, Tom, anybody, but I'm not going to slash your tires. And I'm not going to say, "Hey, I'm going to kill you." That's horrendous, horrendous behavior. But I do want to build a community. And I do want our neighbors in New Market Township to have the ability to enjoy the outside and have some peace and tranquility because that noise is devastating. It's it could drive you insane how loud it was and literally the earth was moving. You felt the vibration, you know. So, it's just stuff like that. It cannot go into the evening. you're going to drive people absolutely bad you crazy. And that's why and it's not going to be rehashing Niagara. You know, we don't like it. It is what it is. But we can do things to remediate the length until it's fully enclosed. We're on the same page with that. Yeah. Okay. Keep working on Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Thank you. Thank you. We got welcome. Hi. Hello. I'm Vita Conitz. I live at 9830 247th Street East in New Market Township. Lovely to see you all again. Um, recently we had a meeting at the city at the library and there were residents that came forward and shared some concerns about water quality related to the pump test that was done. Um, I want to thank Renee for attending. Um, and um, Gina was there and it was open to the public to anyone who wanted to come. But the reason um one of the things that was shared at the meeting and you're probably well aware of is a Minnesota state statute um 103g.287 about groundwater resources. And there is language in the statute that talks about the DNR's ability to when they're issuing permits to consider whether it's degrading water quality. So the specific concern that residents have some of them is that they saw uh changes in water quality related they think to the pump test right involving manganesees which is toxic. Um and so what I would like to um relate to you is I understand that the city is looking at a plan for how you might address that. Um, but the statute tells me that is the DNR that has the responsibility before issuing a permit for increased water use to consider if this permit may degrade the quality of the water for the residents. And um I understand that there are other communities that are using more water um but I and that this is equivalent to 1500 homes. But I also understand that municipal use is the top priority that the people have the right to have clean water at their tap. Um so my request tonight is that you look at that statue very carefully. Um we are in conversation with the DNR and the department of health and asking residents to speak to them. I think there was some confusion about who was going to contact the department of health, whether the residents were supposed to or the department of health was going to contact them. I've seen some emails go around. Hopefully, we're straightening that out so that they're involved because it is a health issue. Um, and I think Renee has pointed out rightly so that it's difficult with water to know exactly what is causing when you have a well, what is causing the issue. But we also know that there have been a number of residents um I counted at least 10 that spoke up maybe 15 I'm not positive the exact number um um who definitely had problems around the same time and after the pump test and so I think it does deserve careful careful consideration um and I understand you're anxious to get this park done and and get them start building. But I would just please ask you to exercise caution. Um because it is your responsibility to make sure that people have clean water right in your city. Thank you. Thank you. Can I ask you a quick question? What was that statute number again? Sure. Um I can also share the slides with you that have it, but it's 103G. 287 and it refers to groundwater appropriations. And um there's subdivision 2 and subdivision three and five that all talk not only about the water quality but also considering future generations and regional groundwater use which you know we've talked about here right it's not just about how much Elco Newark is taking or New Market is taking but it's also about Lakeville and Savage and all the other communities that are growing and using more and more of the water and the DNR also has the authority to regulate that to look at a regional use. They haven't really done it. Um, but to me, the the water quality issue is much more immediate right now that we want to make sure we don't have residents that can't drink their water or that don't have to put in a $6,000 or more new system in order to have it usable. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, something that we had discussed um a year ago and we've continued to I I feel it's been a priority of the council. If if we are moving forward with having a water bottling facility come into town, like it or not, that's not the point. But we want to make sure there's we're doing everything within our power to mitigate some of these issues. Well interference being a big one. Okay. Um if if there is some evidence that what we are doing as a city is negatively impacting people in this community from a water quality standpoint, that's our responsibility to take a look at. So I'm not going to disagree with anything you said. I I in fact I agree that's something we need to take a look at. We need to take real seriously. So thank you. Who else would like to speak? Larry, welcome. Thank you. I'm going to try to be brief and not uh get into what I would like to talk about, which is how we are being negatively impacted by this. Would you mind stating your name and address? Larry Scoffield 11550 Deuce Road across from the Niagara project, so-called project. So, it's getting worse day by day. I'm going to I'm going to briefly just talk about that. Go ahead. It's getting very very bad for us every day. It it increases the trucks that are going in and out the traffic. Tonight, just before we came, they just pulled up a huge uh construction office. Instead of placing it so that it's not facing us, facing the gate and the road access, it's on that 10-ft hill that they've put up there. now facing directly at our home 24/7. What kind of privacy is that? And they could have done it differently. You said that anything that you could do differently to help us. Well, there's one thing right there. That's one minor thing. Anyway, I'll try to be get to the point here that I came here tonight for uh on your agenda. Later on in the discussion, you're going to talk about the permitted hours of operation for construction. I understand that the developers want to change those hours. We had an issue a few days ago where they were going past your 6:00 PM ordinance that you enacted. We called law enforcement and they uh came out too late because they left at 8:00. Now, if you're going to be looking at changing those hours, I want you to uh remember what was the purpose of creating the hours of operation in the first place. Just think about that. Obviously, it's to prevent negative impacts on neighbors like us in the early evening hours to enjoy their homes with their families without loud noise and busy truck traffic. I mean, they're bang. You guys don't know what it's like. They're coming in there and they're dumping and they're banging that tailgate against the box and banging it again like three times. Backup alarms after that. There's three trucks at a I I should have taken more videos. There's three trucks at a time following each other bumper to bumper in and out of there. So, if you're going to be looking at this uh ordinance for the hours, before you do that, just remember why was it created in the first place? Thank you. Thank you. Who would like to speak next? Welcome. Hi, I'm Christy Thompson. I live at 25831 Pillsbury Avenue, New Market Township. Um, I guess I had wanted to ask far as those hours of operation, is that for the whole town of Elco New Market construction or is that just for neighbors adjacent to Niagara? It'd be within the city. The whole city, right? We can't do anything outside the city obviously. Um, so what's the purpose of that for? of having hours of op extended. Uh we're gonna be getting into the hours situation later in the meeting, but maybe I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm their daughter. I just here to say don't allow it past 6 p.m. Understood. Okay. Also, I think you guys know that there's people that live right adjacent to it and they have very young kids and just because it's summer, that doesn't mean they stay up till 10:00. So the other thing is I was curious I was under the understanding that what was allowed to happen right now on that property was grading is is that the only term used for what's allowed right now is grading Rich or Tom that would include grading removal of existing buildings tree removal doesn't state Soil correction. Yeah. Basically everything up to structures. So like the pole they installed. Yeah. That's a temporary security measure. It's not a permanent that's not permanent. They can do that at any time. There's no permit from the city. That would not be required. That's permit. A resest that not something that's covered by me. So like more that's for security reasons. Y you're saying that's not that's totally separate from the it's just for during construction. Okay. Monitor their site remotely and make sure that there's nothing going on that they don't want going on there. So then I I have to say what what are the structures that got moved on there right now? Temporary construction trailers. Yeah. Yeah, they're temporary construction trailers that are typically set up on construction sites for an office where their plans are stored contracts from there forever. How many are there going to be? Do you know how many are on there right now? I don't I don't Okay, you guys need to drive by. There's two now. I don't know what they are. I don't know how many more are coming, but it's pretty disgusting to look at all day. Doesn't matter you don't live there. But for the grading, I just understood that it was just grading and then there's a pole going up and there's a camera on top and my parents are like, "What are they looking at? Are they looking at my parents all day? Who wants that?" Fair enough. Yeah. You'd you'd all think the same thing too if it was you guys. Mhm. So I guess also I was just wondering how does the offices moving on there which doesn't seem to be graating related or security related. I mean I sorry I just feel like they're walking all over you guys. They're not. This is a normal activity when you have a large construction site for them to move a construction for grading. Right now it's just grading. It is. But it is a construction site and they do have people on site and they have people that they need to accommodate on site an office. It's a normal activity that's accessory to the grading that happens on most larger construction sites. So I've also been in town where I just I walked in a place and someone was pretty upset that Niagara was just getting their way and they got to just go ahead and proceed. So people think because there's more than grading going on, there's gates going up, there's structures going in, they think that Niagara is um just getting to do whatever they want. So as far as the communication, I'm just saying if it's if it's understood that what's allowed right now is grading, it looks like there's a lot more going on. Well, we've communicated in Facebook on, you know, publicly that this is what they're doing and that they're allowed to do it and it was actually approved several months ago. So, I'm not sure what you're asking for beyond that. I guess people don't know that grading would ever include gates, cigar, you know, like installing installing stuff cuz we're thinking it's pushing dirt, but there's there's gates being installed. There's offices going in. There's two now. I I had no idea. Found out it's a double wide. There's two pieces now. It looks like it's a double wide they're going to put together. So, it's going to be huge. Yeah. Okay. So, that's all I'm saying is that I was just under the understanding it was grading and I think people don't know what that entails and it just it doesn't look good. I think what I'm hearing you say is that maybe we can expand a little bit more in our communication as to what exactly consists of a grading improvement. Yeah. Fair. Okay. Yeah. No. All right. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who cares to speak under public comment, please? Jonathan Carlson, uh 26126 Pillsbury Avenue. So, first, thanks, Chief Juul, for your uh service. Just a quick story about that. Uh couple years ago, I got a frantic call from my wife that someone was had just robbed our mailbox and was running towards our house and she she had to go and call the police and I was 20 minutes away. And it's at that time that you kind of realize how important uh the police department is. And so gave me a peace to know that you or your officers would be responding. So I thought I'd share that. Thanks for sharing. And then Yep. And then I just had some questions. So, you're going to discuss later tonight on the hours of operation, correct? But not vote. Correct. Correct. Do we know if it's coming to vote or when it's coming to vote or how it would be the next meeting. I mean, it's not something that's going to take might actually be multiple. It might be weeks. I Jonathan, it might be best to wait for that item. There's going to be a full background and explanation for council on that when we discuss that. Okay. And will that go through like the plan? Uh there's a when the silo issue came up, there's like a subcommittee that looked at that and then it came here for a vote. Will this decision go through that subcommittee process? We're going to make the decision. Right. The when the I don't want to talk about Niagara. I just want to talk the process of a there was a city ordinance about the height of a silo and then there was a planning commission. A planning Yeah. Sorry. Planning commission that looked at that first. Direction from the council. There may need to be some language amendments that go through the planning commission which would require a hearing and that's what we'll be discussing. Okay. And it will depend on the direction given by council. Okay. And that decision the the outcome of that or the process will be in the notes or published. Yep. The council will provide direction tonight. If there's a process, it'll go through the process, but ultimately everything has to come back related to an orange change. Ultimately has to come back to the council for approval. Yeah. You're you're asking really about timing, I think. Right. Yeah, just process and timing because we barely found out that this was on the agenda and then like last minute are rushing here and I don't want that to be the case if there's more process coming around this. Want this to be stuck in bureaucracy. No offense to anybody in the room. I just I want this to be moved along at a quick pace. Yeah. And yeah, we just I just want to know the process and have notice. So like if we want to participate, we can. Okay, great. And then as you might guess my feedback, I share the concerns. It's it's not an industrial site. that's miles from where people live and sleep. Uh it's very close. You you've heard all that, you know, through this whole discussion. So, just ask for consideration. It seemed like the the silo height thing was very quickly dismissed as it was more of a fire concern and it wasn't about the, you know, the concern for how that looks and the for the people that have to live next to it. I don't know how this ordinance could be interpreted in any way, but it seems like it's there to protect people and families from that and there's a lot in the area and a lot that care. So, I hope that's given due consideration. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else here to speak under public comment? Me. Welcome. Unless somebody else wants to moving slow. Um, so just a couple of things. Um, first we had heard that there was going to be a burm. Is that the correct word? Burm. defer to our planner and engineer. Is that the correct word, Rich? BM like a mound of dirt. Yeah. To to buffer kind of noise, silence the looks of that type of thing. So, they've built up I mean, we drove by there. We don't go by there often. We take pills very now, but it's like 12 feet high of dirt. 12 to 15 feet and then they're putting these this double wide on top of it. So, at first we thought, "Oh, good. Here comes the burm so our neighbors don't have to look at the site." And um Stacy and Joe's two little kids will stay away from the site. And now we're finding out they're compiling the dirt all the way across. Did you know about that? It's really the pad. Yeah. Is that what's called the pad? The pad for the building. I imagine they're they're grading out the pad. So, which is high which is higher. Yeah. Towards the north end of the property. Right. So, where's the burm? That would typically come towards the end as part of the landscaping preparations after they've got their parking lots and building pads and ponds graded. those final landscaping like features would go in but I don't have their sequence of operations or what they plan to do. What we do is enforce that the grading plan is followed when they're done. So they probably wouldn't build the first large. Yeah. So then my question is is why do we use the driveway across from Skullfields and not do the horseshoe over by 35W exit where there's like Paul's Autos over there G&T like Zer's got G&T trucking over there so there's trucks cars moving in and out of there all the time there's no residents so it really wouldn't bother anybody but instead now they made the driveway triple wide. So, I don't know who changed their mind or how the thing got changed, but the I even have original maps where it wasn't supposed to be the driveway. It was supposed to be by the end exits of 35W north and 35W South. Why the change? Rene, go ahead. The driveway that is being used today is temporary. Okay. So, the drawings that you're referring to that you have that show the access further towards the interchange. Yep. That is where the new street will come into the subdivision. Okay. Um if you know if it gets approved by the city council, right? And then the driveway that is there today is going to get rerouted once that street is finished. So, do you have like a time zone on how long is this going to be all summer for them? Are we going to put them up in a big hotel suite at the Rison or what are we going to do for Larry and Sherry? Because these are our neighbors. And it's biblical to take care of your neighbors as you take care of yourself. So, I take this very seriously as a prayer minister with my husband that they're not come out there. I'm so we don't take that road. So I we went out there the other day just to see it and I was like, "Holy cow, your whole driveways, it's not funny. It was full of gravel and they have a tar driveway that is always perfect." And it was full of gravel. And I went, "Is this going into your house?" And she said, "Every day, every day we're cleaning." I go, "Who's who's paying for your cleaning crew?" I would hire a cleaning crew cuz they're not of the age to be standing out there cleaning this. Seriously, if I was their age and and I just had back surgery, I'm moving pretty good. But they're older than me and I I feel horrendously terrible for them. Like as soon I said, "As soon as I heal from my back surgery, I will be over here with a broom and shovel helping you." cuz it's just something that maybe hindsight you guys just want to drive out and see. Larry's driveway goes straight in and then there's this little like section for guest parking. You can actually park right in there. He'll let you. And John and I sat there for like half an hour going, "Holy cow, I wonder really if our city council knows what's happening." Well, then we used the quick trip and um we heard people in the quick trip talking about you guys like, "Oh, Niagara owns the city council, Niagara this, and that." And I thought, "Wow, is that is that what's going to roll through Elco?" Cuz I think Elco when we moved here 9 years ago was really had a good standing. The I forgot the name of your restaurant. Just give it to me. It's um Firehouse. firehouse cuz as I say it's police and fire all honored it and now everybody's questioning everybody and it's like do we really have to have this turmoil? I mean it's just something just you maybe just need to drive out there take the time sit back and look at it and say how can we improve this? So the other thing is um we're the ones of the 15 that VA talked about who got me in our water and Renee knows about it but nobody. So I wrote to you, you know that I wrote to Tom Terry, you know that I I don't know if I addressed everybody else, but we wrote to um Ellen Considine at the DNR and she responded immediately and said, "Do not drink it. It's poisonous." And I said, "Our water in our toilet, not to sound gross, is black." So, Culligan came out and pulled all their equipment out and said, "We can't service you." So, I'm like, "What? What are we supposed to do?" And he said, "Well, we're going to," this was his big solution. "We're going to give you a check for $1,100 so you can go buy new whites cuz your whites are probably black." And I said, "You must not know how I shop because I shop Macy's and $1,100 is barely going to buy me socks and underwear, but you can take all your machines out." So they did. They took all their machines out. The manganesees during the testing got 10 times worse. So we called Connecticut and Hofferman, which we have all their emails, all their water testings on our phones. I sent you copies. So Ellen Constidine said, "Send send to Tom Terry. Send to Rich Reverend. Send to Tony Winky." Winnick is his response is always the same. I'm out of town. I'll be back next week. So wait a week. Thinking, "Yeah, it's vacation time. Wait a week. Send another one. I'm out of town. I'll be back next week." And then the the dates changed. Um we heard nothing. And I'm not trying to criticize you, Tom. You might get a million emails a day. I get a ton of psychiatric emails to go through every day, but when it's my water and it's affecting my family. So, for 2 months, we sat with black water. So, we showered at our daughter's house in Windrose, which upped her water bill. We did our laundry at the laundromat. That was by the sex store. That was a lot of creepy fun. And then Mitch, our son, heard about it and he protested that, "Mom, you will never go up by that place again. Stay away from Motel 6." And and our other son, Lakeville cop, said, "We're doing stings up there. Stay away." So then I got chewed out by two police officer sons. That's not fun. So then I went to his house, washed our clothes at his house, had to buy all new whites, and finally Connecticut took over and said, "We'll come out. We'll take a look at it. I've got a picture. We have eight tanks in our basement. Renee knows. She saw the tanks. Larry showed her the tanks. I have tank I have pictures on my phone. I can send them to all of you. So, six of them are for just to filter. One extra is for the manganesees. And then there's one extra that is for our drinking water. I used to have a huge laundry room like a woman's dream and John had little section for his tools. Now that's out. John's tools are kicked out and it's all big tanks and it's it's not fun. And I know Joe, you said you care you care about our water. Come out and see the mess that we have. It's it's a mess. And now so far Connectico is taking care of us. It cost over $500 to get it put in. I've got that bill on my phone. And now it cost us $165 a month to keep them running. That's not a filter change. That's extra. And this is well water. This should be kind of free water, but I think all well water still needs a filter system and still needs soft water. So you still you pay something but nothing to this magnitude. So now we've been referred to at the library meeting to a pro bono attorney that's an environmental attorney that's going to start keeping track of all of us be and I don't want to come back to this city and go well I'm suing you cuz Josh I know you ate when I say that but this this attorney at least is going to represent us to try to fix the solution and the minute the aquifer got tapped into for and I don't understand the aquifer myself. For whatever reason, the maganesees start showing up in different wells. Janelle, what's her last name? Kusnick. Yeah, Janelle. Hers hers got it, too. So, I called her and I'm like, "Do you have black coming out of your like your toilet?" And she goes, "Oh, yeah. Don't wash your hair cuz you'll go from blonde to black." And I'm like, "I don't know what to do." And it's greasy, oily. Um, it's not like charcoal where you could just chip it off. It's greasy, oily. So, I tried bleach, rust rays, iron out, and ble, excuse me, bleach tablets, and nothing touched it. Nothing. So, John just took the whole toilet out and took it to the dump and threw it. What do you do if you can't get it out? If it's like oil, if if you know about oil, you can't get it out. So, and we can send you all the bills and all the information. And now we have to have our water tested every six months through Bloomington. Pay for it ourselves to make sure it's not toxic because if you get to the toxicity level, you're poisoning your body and you might not even know it. So, and this may be news to you guys. I I don't I was so mad when I sent it out and I was so beside myself and I'm balling and crying and then I've got two PD officers saying you can't be up in that area like oh okay I didn't know I didn't know you're doing stings up here but you know come out Joe you've been out to our house but I don't know what to do about if you guys have solutions and if you really care I think that's what's important Chief Juel You left us with two main things that I wish we all had. And I can't even stand here and say that I have it all myself. But you left us with character and integrity. And I want all of us, and I know I'm probably the oldest one in the room, but all of us to think about that tonight. What is our character and what is our legacy that we're going to leave? Are we trying to build New York or are we trying to love and care for each other as family as citizens as Elco New Market should be? Like make this city different. And the only way to make this city different is right there to act with integrity and character and have your legacy be one that meets people's needs. That's that's all I have to say. That's my grandma thing to say. Teach my grandkids that. So, well said. Thank you, Jamie. Um, couple things. Uh, you had mentioned the conversations happening in Quick Trip. Look, people are not going to like us all the time. People are going to feel that we're owned by someone. People People are welcome to think what they want. I know what we're doing as a city council. I know what goes in my mind when we make a vote. Um, people are going to be welcome to feel however they want and if they want to have a discussion, I'm happy to do it. Um, but I I I don't think any of us can let it bother us if there's chatter around town that not happy with us. We're just we signed up to run for office or be appointed for office and that's just kind of part of part of the deal, fortunately or unfortunately. Um, as far as water quality, I do think we have a responsibility to make sure that the water qu that our actions do not negatively impact the water quality. I'm going to say something that I hate saying, but it's something we have to look into. It's not I can't give you I can't give you an answer or anything today, and I hate not being able to do that, but um, but yeah, it's something we take seriously and something we'll be continuing to look at. I meant to mention because I'm not going to walk up there again, but I meant to mention that Ellen Considine said before the DNR will approve that Tom Terry and Rich Revery have to Rich is gone. Yeah. have to come up with some type of water plan for the well users. Like if our wells go bad, are you going to pipe out city water all the way out to Pillsbury because we're right around the corner. No, you're you're right. That's something we have to work through as part. I'm not saying you have to do that. I'm just saying as an example. No, I know what you mean. DNR Ellen Ellen Considine said there will be a water plant put in place before Niagara is allowed to start drying off the aquafer. Yep. I said I hope so because our area got hit really. I don't know why because the the testing was done over by Zoe, right? Weber's wells that they had to redrill are super they're 250ome feet deep. So that's probably why they didn't get affected. But to drill a well that deep is going to cost thousands. Sure. I know. I mean more to come on all this and I'm sorry that's all I have. That's all I can say right now. No, I I understand. I think even at the library even Ellen said, you know, we this is all new. territory to everybody. And as we go through it, we go through it together. And that's why I said character and integrity. And what what's your legacy when all this is done? Is everybody smiling? Because everybody's smiling at Chief Jewel as he exits. And and I don't mind your your first comment about if people are going to talk, people are going to this and that, but honestly, your train of thought as a younger person should be when I leave this earth or when I leave Elco, I hope everybody thinks I left with a good character and a good leg legacy behind me and that I was kind and considerate and I made wise choices. Well, first you refer to saying that. I know I'm looking right at you and I shouldn't do that. Yeah, that's okay. You referred to me as a younger person. I appreciate that. Yeah, hang on to that. It won't last long. Um, your points are taken. So, thank you. Is there anyone else who cares to speak under public comment tonight? Could I trouble you to resend that email? I can. Yes. And I and I and I have your car, but I'm sure you get a million like I get In actuality, I have three three emails. How do you keep up on that? Oh. Oh, I'm I'm like what? You only got three that's included also. But yeah, I mean I went back I looked at my junk mails and my inbox going back and I have three emails on the water quality topic directly to me. Okay. So I can do it directly to you if you want because I think actually I think I got some of the um I had to pull back. You know, we haven't been here for over a year. So, I had to pull up names and so I want to make sure because if there's an offline conversation to be had, you guys can go ahead. But we're going to keep We got We got your number. Thank you. Okay, we're going to close public comments and move on to consent. Um does anyone have any items on consent they would like pulled? I don't have any that I want to pull. I just got a couple quick questions. I don't think I have to pull them. So, with the and I was joking with Beth earlier, but the RNF one and I saw as I was reading through the planning commission notes, they made comments about uh town homes versus all single family. The way I read it though, like we're still approving it where that one section can still be town homes. I think there was a split in the planning commission the way that I read the minutes that some thought it should all be correct whatever it was the recommendation that we're approving to allow for town homes still correct it's what it's the recommendation that came out of the city council okay cool and then the second one and if it can be briefly answered the hazardous materials abatement at 641 it seemed really high compared to what we had anticipated is it it is basically um all of the plaster pretty much in the entire structure um has a higher asbestous level than is acceptable for normal disposal. So that's why it's it is much higher than we had expected. Although the other home that we were doing work on was much lower than we had expected, but it is higher. Okay. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a typo because it went from like 2100 to like 31,000 or something. And uh 2100 is about what we spent. 2,300 is what we spent on the other home because that was actually very simple, very little work to be done. But on 461 or 641, um the actual they basically had to strip everything down to the studs um unfortunately. So again, any motions? Motion to approve consent agenda. Motion by Kate, second by Josh. All in favor? Consent passes. Uh we have no public hearings tonight and we have three items under general business. So let's start with Well, go ahead, Tom. So first item is the council's being asked to appoint interimm chief of police. I don't know why. Um, we are recommending to the council or I am recommending the council that we appoint Sergeant Bell um as the interim chief of police um with uh Brady leaving us. Um reason I'm making that recommendation is uh demonstrated capabilities of Sergeant Bell. Um he currently serves as the number two in the police department. He's in charge of all operational things when the chief is out of town or unavailable for any extended period of time. He already handles um a portion of all the administrative load within the department and his role as the sergeant. Um Sergeant Bell also served as the interimm chief when Steve Mortonson left as well. Um and Sergeant Bell has been working and Brady's been working with and I've been working with development professionally so that he would have an opportunity if he so chose to pursue a chief's position here someplace else in the future. and he does have the qualifications for being a chief. Um he served as a senior officer before which is basically the officer in charge before he was the sergeant. Um he has um been the field training officer for every single officer in the department including Brady and Brady's predecessor. Um he has served as the only other command staff member besides the chief of police within the department. Um he also has his emergency manager certification so for the emergency management director portion of the job. Um he is qualified. Uh he's also been through the first line supervision and senior management courses through the BCA and he's also actually the reason he wasn't here tonight for Brady was that he's currently at the FBI's LITA course for um supervisor leadership. So um he I believe he has it. The other thing is just continuity of department culture and operations during a transitional period. Um, not only do we have Brady leaving, but we also have new officer coming on board um through that time period. And it would be my recommendation if at the end of the interim period, which I'm recommending be five months. If he's performing adequately, we would then uh consider appointing him as the chief permanently. Why five months? Um, I believe that's an adequate amount of time for him to one uh learn the position, be in it, and for me to assess how well he's doing in that role. We can always shorten it up if he's doing really well. Um, that was a timeline I also discussed with Craig as a reasonable time frame from his perspective as being a new chief uh to also be able to vet it out and what he thought would be reasonable for me to assess him as well. Um, we would have the option during that time frame if he's doing really well to shorten it. Uh, if we feel there's a need to, we could lengthen it and if he's not being successful, we can look at other options. I really don't anticipate the latter would be the case. No, and I I I would share that feeling. That just kind of makes me why I mean, why make it interim at all? Why not just make him the police chief um and hold him accountable to the actions of the police chief? Well, he would be held accountable. I mean, he he No, but why make it interimm when we're going to hold him accountable anyway? I guess my thought on that is one, he has not been a regular chief in the past. Um, and so this allows us to make sure that we want him to be successful and this allows us to assess it and before we make that final decision because once he's chief, if he's not succeeding, there's consequences to that. And I don't want to put um a good sergeant in somebody that has worked for us for a long time. Um I want to put him in a position to be successful. And this allows us to assess it, see if he needs to be developed more professionally, if we need to extend that interimm period. But once he's in the job, while we also want to work to make him successful, there's no going back, so to speak. So the other thing is that I would also not recommend filling the sergeant position during the interimm period for that same reason. Well, and and if I may then, and I see chief wanted to talk to you. I mean, that's where I would lean towards shortening andor getting rid of the interim position because I want that position filled and I don't want to wait five months to fill the position uh because we need it. That's why we have it currently and I would be much more inclined to to move faster to then backfill it post backfill because we know that that's going to take six months or gosh knows what how long. So, that that would be my reason to say scrap the interim as well because if we're going to end up with the same outcome which I think we all believe we are then what is the point of the interim with the if I heard you correctly Josh you were talking that we should hire the sergeant position right away post a position whether we think that the sergeant position is the right one if it's if it's to keep the the same consistency and and and you know I think chief you've thought that that was a good position that's why we did it with with Craig you it's up to the the interim chief or the next chief to then decide for them uh what that position might be. And again, it gets me back to we'll scrap the interim piece all together. Let them make the decision so we can have a full department again. So with the sergeant position, Brady and I have talked about this extensively and I've also consulted with Craig on this. We all are in unanimous agreement that we should hold that position for a period of time. There's a number of reasons for it. One, when you're bringing in another sergeant, whether it's internal or not, you're adding chaos to an already transitory period. Two, there may be internal candidates who would be interested in that position. And this interim period allows them to think about that and be able to step up and position themselves to be more successful for that where right now this is unexpected. The current assumption at this point is that Brady would be retiring under normal timelines, which was two to three, maybe a little more down the road. So this is kind of a little out of the blue. So somebody who might have otherwise thought, hey, when this happens and there's opportunities for positional change within the department, they really haven't had an opportunity to position themselves for it. So this would allow them to do it. For those internal candidates within the position during the interimm period, there's still a need for some sergeant duties. So there's an opportunity to provide some interm assignments to individuals as well and see how they perform so they can assess whether it's what they want to do. and we can also assess whether or not they're going to be good at doing it. Um because a good officer does not necessarily always translate into a good supervisor. Um so there are things that So the the whole recommendation where we're going with this was a three-way discussion between Sergeant Bell, the chief and myself and reflects our consensus of what the the recommendation we're providing you. And the whole intent is really to provide for the success of everybody involved. But maybe, and I maybe this was part of Josh's point, but aren't we basically leaving an open position, sergeant or not, just an open police officer? I'd be curious how much of the sergeant responsibilities versus coverage of on the street or whatever the right terms are of. But but even if we post it, we currently have a new officer who's in FTO and will be in FTO for some period of time. Um and that is putting a and with the chief leaving and with the transition um the addition of another person. It's not just this. It's the hiring process. It's the backgrounding of that which takes resources and then when you hire the person you're talking three months or so up to three months or maybe more of FTO on top of that when you're already short. So we wouldn't recommend filling the position right now anyways until that other person has been completed with FTO is out on their own. We're operating on a normal schedule and things have stabilized just because of bandwidth within the department. We've put quite a bit of thought into this. I would actually like to know Chief Jules's thoughts because no offense guys, but I trust the expert here. Well, and thank you Gina. uh when you have a leadership change, you create instability in the organization. On top of it, we're just hired an officer. Um I don't want to take 100% of the credit, but I kind of drew out this plan for the success of the department. I Every officer we hire is probationary, and we do that for a huge reason. you a add some pressure on that person to succeed otherwise they can be let go. Um it's vital for I feel that Craig feels some pressure to succeed and know that when I came here I left my job I was on probation for a year at any time. I wouldn't think of this interim as anything other than that probation. If Craig isn't successful, doesn't meet your needs, he has a job as a sergeant. You can go and and get a chief. If you make him the chief and he isn't successful, you have to terminate him in essence because he's not going to go back to being a sergeant. We felt this program was the best for the council, the best for the organization. Give five months to settle down under his new leadership. Not try to place extra burden of hiring another officer or hiring a sergeant right away. Let the department settle down with the leadership change and move forward slowly, cautiously. There's no doubt in my mind you're going to appoint him the chief. It allows you to test drive the car before you buy it. and make sure the fit is there. I know he's going to be successful. I've actually it hasn't come up. I'm gonna act as his mentor as I had a mentor when I started here. We will meet monthly. I will get phone calls all the time. I'm sure most of those will start with what were you thinking, you know, chief when you did this. But um so I am staying on board to make him successful. Craig understands this and realizes that I I love working here and if I don't succeed, I don't want to be fired or have to leave. I want to then stay a sergeant. Interim, much like before he was an interimm chief, he went back to being an officer. That can still happen when he's interim and if that makes sense. So, it was really something that I felt would lead to the success of the department because if I didn't care, I would bolt and move to Key West or something. No, just easing. But I uh I care about the success. I volunteered and really want to work. Um Savage City administrator and leadership loves that that I'm going to be there for him as well. So, Al, I know where you're coming from, but we don't want to lose Craig either way, and we know he's going to succeed, and he is honestly on board with everything. He He understands there's when you take a new role, there's a probationary period. He does not view the interim period as any lack of show of confidence or an insult to his capabilities or anything else. I specifically had that conversation with him and he's like, "No, that makes sense." The period that we talked up was a conversation between the two of us about what would be reasonable. But again, if he's doing really well, it doesn't have to be an entire five months, but that's a reasonable starting point with at the end of the day. At least that's what we're recommending. Any other thoughts? I appreciate the conversation. Anyone objecting to this? So, do you need a motion from us? Yes, I would be looking for a motion to appoint uh per the motion and the staff recommendation. Moved. Second. Motion by Amanda, second by Gina. All in favor? I. Okay. Item B. So, uh, a few months back, um, Council Member Berg talked about, hey, should we start having the hard convers, you know, the the firm conversation about what are the plans for the old PD building? There's been a lot of informal conversation and intent of preserving that asset for future reuse, but we've never really had the formal discussion about what's the reuse, what are we going to do, how are we going to fund it, all of those details. And the council said, "Yep, we should have that conversation." and said, um, we probably should put together a group to do all the leg work and just make a rec make recommendations to us on that topic. So, the council um approved a composition for a old PD building study advisory group um to be appointed which would be made up of um representatives from the park commission because it's a facility that'll get rented out. The planning commission because it's a land use uh city council um because hey, you guys make the final decisions and to help provide continuity of conversation back to the full council. um representatives of the organizations who already have leases for use of portions of the site and also community at large. Um we had identified individuals who are named in the memo to represent uh the fixed groups. We have uh appointees or recommendations to the council from the planning from both commissions. Um we have representatives who have volunteered from both the um ball team and the food shelf. Uh really at this point we need the council to appoint the members identify the members at large and the council representatives and then just make a motion to make those appointments. Um with the members at large the council identified one to three. Uh we promoted it on Facebook. We had three individuals contact us. Um we asked them to provide some additional information about who they are. You know additional um information about themselves and their interest which we provided to council. Um, so at this point we'd be looking for the council to identify the atlarge member members the council representatives and then just make a motion appointing I think if we got three members of the community then I'm good with three. Same works for me works for me. Who uh who on the council wants to be part of this? I mean I'm willing to volunteer unless someone else wants it more. Yeah. Anyone else? Can you have one to two or just one? You guys had indicated one to two. I think one's okay. I can be your backup in case it I like it. Okay. So, you have the people you need. Yep. So, I would need a motion to appoint the representatives to the advisory old PD study advisory group. uh with Gina as the council representative, Amanda as her backup, um Jim from Hope for the Community, Corey from Elco Express, um Melissa from planning, Melissa Paul from parks, and then the three individuals who had expressed interest from the public. Got it. Motion by Kate, second by Josh. All in favor? I passes. Okay. water system studies proposal. Yep. So, uh we'd given a heads up quite a while to the council that we'd be coming back um looking for authorization to uh take a look at capital improvements in the water system. There's three studies or proposals that are put out for the council. The first one is an update to the water system study that we completed a couple years ago to reflect uh new information that we have at that time. A lot of the analysis related to system system capacity etc was based on design capacity because we weren't at capacity and we hadn't run quite honestly the full system for instance the water treatment facility at full capacity. Um also there's a lot of other inputs to that population projections etc that would weigh into the analysis of the overall system projected future demands etc. And so now that we have more information such as updated population projections, we have um practical data from the Oxford test running the system at full boogie. That's a technical term. Um and additional information etc. We need to update that. The other part of it is we do need to drill a new well for firm capacity. We've talked with the council. That's a thing that exists today. And we'll need to put a do a new water tower. Those are improvements that we need to make regardless. Um the potential for large water on this system does potentially accelerate those improvements from when we normally would, but we're going to have to do them regardless. And so this study would go up, update it, revise when we need to do it, the approach we're going to take to it, and then once we have answers out of that overall study, this would also authorize um if appropriate, the beginning of work on the design of the well and the water tower itself. These are inevitable improvements. We need to do it. The thing to keep in mind is this was kind of structured as a nested study. We need to get the answers out of the first study to guide the next studies. And the council will be delegating the authority to staff to um basically let Rich know if and when he should move on to those next studies. The reality is once we complete the first study, we'll be coming back to you guys with a report anyway saying here's where we need to go. I would just add the reason we're bringing all three is that these long sitew we're talking about three different stages of planning, right? They're basically three studies, but two are related and kind of dependent on the first one. The first one says, "Okay, yeah, you're going to need to move and based on this data, this is when we think it might be three years out, it might be one year out." So that's what this first study and the same for the well, but rather than come back to you for something we know we're have to do, we're asking for approval subject to staff Okay, we're convinced this is good. Go ahead. So, I got to ask the question. If it's something that, you know, we're going to do, why not come back and get it anyway? For instance, if the study so we don't hypothetically, we don't need to do the water tower for 5 years. We don't need to start spending money on it on that study today. We could wait a couple years before we do it. But why why does it really benefit anyone by authorizing it today when we can just authorize it when needed? We could. It was just Okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. No, there might be some obvious It might be obvious that we need to start, for instance, start working on the well. Um, so we could just start moving forward with that. Um, I mean, it's I hate redundancy and bureaucracy, but at the same time, I mean, I'd almost feel better if we authorize things as it's needed rather than ahead of time. The council could simply just authorize the first study. We still we're still going to come back to the council and say here's what the study says and here's what we need to do. Yeah, I like that idea. It was an attempt at efficiency. Oh, and I appreciate the attempt at efficiency whenever possible. No, and I do too. And I was just writing down the total cost. I mean, so total cost for all three together is just shy of 300,000. The first little one is only 285. So, I mean, that's the the the preliminary system study one. I'd be curious, you know, between and I don't know how long it would take, but there's got to be grants. There's got to be funding available that we could tap into to potentially get support, assistance, state, somebody to to help pay for some of this cost. And that's where I'd love to then take it to the capital next year. And how long does the study take? So the preliminary one would be certainly an option and we plan to prep would Okay. But still, I mean, that gives us time, too. If we want to look at the 25 session to go ask for state funding if it's legislatively needed to be approved or something, it it would we'd have it in plenty of time. And given that they didn't pass a bonding bill and the governor said no special session, there would possibly be an opportunity and usually the workup for that upcoming session is usually midsummer, early fall when that stuff has to be clearly identified for a coming session. We should have that completed by then, Rich. So, trying to find the right wording to just authorize what we want to authorize. Um, council could simply authorize um the water system study update and just don't do the other two at this time. So, moved. Second. Motion by myself, second by Kate. All in favor? I I All right. Into reports. Um first item under administration is the item for which our esteemed audience most of them have stayed for which is the discussion on the hours of operation. Um Rene do you want me to provide the overview? Do you want to do it? I can do it if you want. Okay. Okay. Included in your um packet was a uh memorandum outlining that the city code uh section 5-5 contains the city's noise ordinance regulations. Um the noise standards contained in uh section 5-5-2 of the city code. I'm going to read it out loud uh for everybody's benefit. state that construction activities uh no person shall engage in or permit construction activities involving the use of any kind of electric, diesel, gas powered machine, or other power equipment except between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. on any weekday and between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. on any weekend or holiday. This is the section of the city code that staff has always referred to. um regarding noise and enforcement of our noise ordinance. Uh all developments that have been constructed uh during our time with the city such as Boulder Heights, Pet Hill, Reia Estates, um uh the preserve, the contractors have always been advised of this section of the code and permitted hours of operation pursuant to section 5-5-2. um recently uh last week as uh you may be aware we um realized that there is a conflict in the code can uh there's another section of the code which is under the zoning ordinance and se uh title 11-11-8 that addresses specifically grading operations and uh subject to grading permits issued through the city and it states earthwork and hauling operations shall be performed between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday. Um, such activities are also prohibited on the following holidays. New Year's, Memorial, 4th of July, Labor Day, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day. Um when we realized uh the police department actually alerted us to the apparent conflict in the city code um we uh quickly advised Niagara that grading operations needed to comply with the most uh conservative the 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. until this can be uh rectified they will be uh operating under the 7 a.m. 6 p.m. So, um, staff's recommendation is that the all the noise ordinances be contained in just one section of the city code so there's not any future discrepancies or conflicts that could happen in the future. The uh the earlier section noise control under title 5-5-2 is really modeled after state statute. Um the uh Minnesota rules chapter 70-30 contain noise regulations and they are broken down into two time frames um daytime and nighttime. And the daytime hours listed in Minnesota rules which is enforced through the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency um is 7:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. are are considered daytime hours and 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. are considered nighttime hours. Um, if I did include the research of several other cities, um, and you can see from the research that many of them uh, do have that 7 am to 10 p.m. for uh, noise ordinances. Some are different. Um, but the reason for that noise ordinance, we believe that the hours 10:00 a.m. or 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. is simply because that is how it's stated in Minnesota rules. Um so we are looking for direction from the council on how to reconcile uh this. It is our recommendation that the hours be just removed al together from title 11-11 of the city code and contained only in title 5-5 and if there are any changes that the council would wish to see in title 5-5 um we would take those. Amending that title 11 will require a public hearing before the city's planning commission. Um so we have to schedule a public hearing. There's definitely some time involved with uh not notices to the newspaper um holding the planning commission commission meeting providing a recommendation. But that change in that title uh staff's recommend recommendation would just be to remove it there. then any uh any changes to title five are strictly under the purview of the city council. Um staff, go ahead. Sorry. Until there are changes out at the Niagara site, they will be operating from 7 to 6 and not just any grading. Yeah. anything going on any grading grading permit and and not at all on Sundays and not at all on holidays because that's the most restrictive piece of both sections of ordinance. And just to clarify what the conflict is, section 1118 is only referring to earthwork and hauling or grading and only for grading permits. So if somebody doesn't have specifically a grading permit and just has their final plat approval, arguably it wouldn't apply and you'd still be under 710. So you have these different intents within the ordinance. Also to point out is 5-5-2 applies to all construction activities and isn't limited. So if there people working inside the building, hammers and nails, that type of stuff, you know, building a building, um that would still be 7 to 10 and the 6 to or the 7 till 6:00 p.m. would not apply to that type of activity. So there's a lot of potentially different inconsistencies depending on whether or not you consider it to be the all same thing or you're going to have different sets of hours for different sets of construction activity. And the reality is there's this separate piece that was buried over here that was legacy language from the former city of Elco plus what we've been applying in practice for a couple decades. Um and we need to rectify it and the council needs to just provide direction on what are we going to do for all construction activities going forward and do you carve out a separate um criteria for grading activities compared to other construction activities? I like the idea of simplifying it and keeping it as one. I do personally I don't think we should move or remove the 11-11-8. Um I would like to see that ordinance actually be expanded to the uh 5-5 um and make changes on that ordinance. So I would like to see something like um Monday through Friday 7 to 6 um no holidays, maybe not Sundays at all. side preferably. Um, and then 9 to 6 Saturday. What we would suggest, understanding your intent, Gina, we would still suggest deleting it from 1118, but if you want that language to remain, you just move it over to 5-5-2. Why delete it? Why can't we just leave it? Because it would be redundant. And when you're doing code updates, there's always the potential, has happened here, that you have duplication or overlap between ordinances that could conflict with each other. And it's better just to have it in a single spot. Can I ask a clarifying question because I think I'm thinking what you're thinking. When when we're saying get rid of 11-11-8, is it just subp part D? We're getting rid of that language. We're keeping A B C E. Correct. All of that other stuff will still exist. all those other environmental protections are not going away, but it's just the time frame hours that we can still restrict differently in 5-5-2, which I think is what you're talking about that I tend to agree with, but we'll get rid of the having two sets of time periods, right? Well, I don't want two sets. I like this time period and right, but I think but so don't worry that ABC and all the other ones that are listed, ABC, E, and F are still going to exist. Those are not going away. So all those other environmental protections, you wouldn't have to have it in two places. You could just move it over into the more appropriate place if that's what you wanted to do. Essentially changing these construction grading hours is I think what you're getting at. I think the principle is and I agree with the pr I I would want grading to stop by six. Yeah, I like I like what how it stated here 7 to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday. Okay, I'm okay with that. And I think we should actually take those hours for the um 5-5 ordinance. I mean, can I specific to Niagara, just given the proximity to the neighbors, it's I I probably care more about gradient stopping at six with this one than I would another site. This is a very unique site. I don't know if that's something we need to carve out or we just council's kind of saying no differently because like the the reconstruction of downtown New Market right now is a it's loud. It's a disaster. They're there till 9:00 at night with a gigantic excavator digging stuff up, making noise, disrupting people that are just as close. So it's like fair point. It's like if you're going to make it one construction site, you have to look at it. It's got to be I'm good. I'm good with that. I didn't mean to just for one project because I feel like it's going to get done that much faster. So, you could literally add three months to the project or whatever. That's okay. But we have to have a balance between happy neighbors that have a quality of life versus them extending it a couple more months. Children ch Don't forget the children. Guys, we got this. Okay. I'm just saying children are We got it. I think so. Is everyone anyone opposed to stopping this at 6? Okay. So, we're all on the same page with that. So, we're talking uh 7 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday. So, Monday through Friday. I thought it was Monday through Saturday. What what what I heard maybe for simplicity sake is taking the language in 11118 related to hours of operation, slide it over to 5-5-2 and still leave it specific to grading activities and then the other hours related to other construction activities would still apply. I still think 10 is too late for at least outdoor construction. And well, and if and if that's the case, other cities do have shorter hours. Um like in my experience, nobody goes till 10:00, right? Um it's dark by then. It's rare unless it's a building that actually is fully enclosed and the plumbers are working really late. So I think it and there are other cities that have shorter. Um there if you look at the other cities that we contacted, one has 9:00. A couple of them have seven, although by and large nearly every other city in the area and every other city in my experience typically goes to 10, even though nobody actually goes to 10. That's ahead. No, you go ahead. Is there a way that under 5-5-2 that we have these are restrictions for any outdoor activities you are to be done by six o'lock. Therefore, if you're inside the building, enough sheetrock you can be there till 10. Is there a way you can do it inside and outside restrictions? You you could, but that's not how most ordinances are written. I would and that's not what most contractors are used to in other communities and a lot of times. So large sites like Niagara where they have a site supervisor, they're much better managed. Most other construction, mostly residential, there isn't a site supervisor. There's just subs that are showing up and compliance is much more problematic. The other thing I did talk to other I did talk to another city administrator who's on our list is having a 7:00 downtime and I asked him and I said, "So, have you had a lot of complaints from contractors or whatnot?" He said, "The contractors haven't pushed back as hard, but they have more non-compliance." Um, because the subs who come in in every other city they work in is later. So, I think there's a balance of um you can have the quote all you want, but you might have a lot more non-compliance the earlier you go in the earlier you go. I think it's just what the council feels is reasonable for activity. And there is in staff's assessment a difference between con other construction activities and earth work. Earth work as we've heard tonight has a different level of impact than other construction activities. And when people are, and we've had it happen on projects over the years where guys are out, you know, the roofers are there at six o'clock in the morning, the police department gets a call and they go out and tell them, "You guys got to shut it down until 7, but it's not nearly as impactful as the scraper running, you know, 200 yards away." Okay. So, go ahead. Sorry. Um, one piece of uh, information that was not included in this table is the regulations that are currently in place by Scott County, which currently apply to all the townships in Scott County. They don't have any hours stated in their code because they default to state statute. So, that is what the county would enforce if some uh, development was going in in the county. If I could note too, I mean one option and you may not want this option. Uh some cities have included um unless these are your hours unless you receive uh written approval from the city or consent to other hours. Um and that might apply in certain scenarios where you know that there will be less impact on surrounding communities or for a project that needs to be done quickly. So what needs to go back to the planning commission for a change to be made? What? So, under any under any circumstance, we're just suggesting remove ours from the grading permit. It's just the wrong spot for it. The planning commission then um we then need to know what directions you want to make to 5-5-2. That can be done strictly by the council. If you guys agree that we're just taking it out of 1118, that has to go to the planning commission regardless. And my understanding was if it got more restrictive, and correct me if I'm wrong, but from conversations, I thought if it got more restrictive, we bypass is not the right word, but we don't have to go through the the public hearing process. You know, if we were to to widen it and get it more less restrictive, we would have to go through the public hearing process. But if we're getting more restrictive, any change to the ordinance requires change to title 11. I still don't understand why we would need to remove um section D from title 11 if we're going to keep those hours. Ultimately, that's for the planning commission to tackle, right? And make a recommendation back to us. Yep. But um what the hours ultimately you guys are approving it at the end of the day and the section where the hours are actually going to be is in the section that they don't touch. So, if you guys are okay with just deleting it from there and doing whatever we're going to do in 5-5-2, that's simple. We can start moving that, but it would be useful when we get to that meeting in that hearing to explain to them what the intent is at the end of the day, even if it's not directly related to their piece of the process. Can we still change 5-5-2 without removing the [Music] 11-11-8 section? And can we not just leave that as is? I'm I'm just concerned because that section is specifically related to environmental protections. Is that right? It it is and it's for the grading, but hours of operation is not the right location for it. Hours of hours of operation should not be there. They should be in 5-5-2. Okay, let's as a council and council only, let's figure out what it is that we want and then let's go back to staff and tell them to make it happen. So, we're all on the same page. The grading activity has to stop at six, right? I just don't understand the difference with the construction and the grading. Like, I'm thinking of these two separate projects because it's like similar work with giant machines and dump trucks and stuff like what is the difference? So, the should I answer? Well, I guess my thing is that I think six o'clock is too early. I think it's going to drag projects on. Okay. It's like the longer things go on, the more disruptive it is. True. I have young kids. My sister lives in downtown the reconstruction. She has an excavator like sitting in her driveway. Okay. She has young kids. Like So you want you want it open to get the project done sooner. Yes. Okay. I think that's a little I mean, do I want them working till 10 o'clock at night? Absolutely not. Okay. I think six o'clock is too early, 10 o'clock's too late. I would like to meet in the middle. Um, that's kind of where I'm at, but I just I don't understand the difference between because the same sort of equipment is at these two sites. So, what All right. Go ahead. Earthwork is So, there isn't there isn't um for that activity. So, when you're talking about digging, ripping up the street, anytime you're moving dirt or moving material or hauling material, that's the same as what they're doing out there. The six o'clock shutdown time does not apply to that for two reasons. One, they don't need a grading permit because they're operating on a city project and it's already been authorized by the council. And two, um 5-5-2 specifically provides exemptions for city projects because it might not just be that city street. Um the council talked about this when we did the roundabout. The council wanted it done as soon as possible and provided the greatest amount of flexibility because of the public safety aspects of that project. And that's common language that you'll see also because if you have public works and they got to come in at 10 o'clock in the, you know, two in the morning to fix something under the street they got to dig. So there's an exception generally for public projects and it's not uncommon to see that in other ordinances. But the main difference taking that out, the main difference is that's not a grading permit, although the activity is the same. That's part of the conflict that staff was pointing out is that if you're grading, you're grading. If you're excavating, you're excavating. If you're hauling, you're hauling. There really shouldn't be allowed. It's all disruptive. It's all disruptive. So whatever is appropriate here should be it should be applied equally whether it's 6:00, 10:00, 8:00, whatever it is. What was the initially intent intent of having this under the 11-11-8 and at these times? I don't know. That is language that survived from the former city of Elco ordinance which I was not familiar with. Yeah. So basically under 5-5-2 the construction activities would be considered construction earth hauling everything right. So you could say construction activities grading earth hauling. You could put it all in there. So that right or you could create a separate exemption just for the grading earthalling. You can say all construction activities except these which would be the stuff out of 11-11-8 the grading part except these guys have these different hours from all the other construction activities. Well, if we do that, I'm not in favor of keeping construction activities till 10:00 either. So then we're changing two things. So you're going to put in the new from 11118. You're going to stick that in there for earth moving and then you're going to have construction activities and I would like to see that brought bring brought sorry down to even 7 o'clock at the very latest is the latest I'm willing to go on that too. And there are a couple cities that are at 7 o'clock and there are cities that see a lot of construction. What does everyone else think? So kind of along that line too there are a lot of other cities that do 7 o'clock. Savage Weisetta, Edina, Eden Prairie, Lake Elmo. um and pulling some of theirs and they have some really good language in these. I did so much research on city ordinances this last legislative session like I can navigate ordinances quickly. What do you want to see, Josh? I would love the the 7 to7 um and and allow for variances and and there's language in several of these uh that allow for more administrative type variances up to, you know, three days or five days or something. So they're limited for those extenduating circumstances where it rains for a week and a half and then you know now we got things delayed or supply chain issues or whatever. So I think shortening the time frame allow for those variances in a very limited way so that we're not you know disrupting projects and things like that and we can still be reasonable. That sounds similar to what Kate said. You guys are kind of on the same page. Amanda, I'm good with that. You good with that? Gina. Okay. So, we're we're technically then, I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly, we're going to change the earthwork and hauling operations to allow for up until 7:00 rather than 6:00. Yeah. But but scaling back the construction piece from 10:00 to I don't want to I mean, personally, I don't want I don't think we should expand the hours that earthwork and hauling is allowed to seven. I think we should keep that at six and then I I think all other construction might be okay until 7 um as latest I would say but I don't know why we would in it's the same thing. It's not necessarily the same thing though. I mean moving soil and earthwork it can be more disruptive. I I just Have you gone over there? I've not gone over there but if this is already six o'clock I don't see why we would allow another hour. I I mean I guess we're I mean we have three people ready to support seven. I mean I mean I'm I'm cool with keeping 11118 exactly as it written till six and then just the construction activities once comes down to seven. I'm okay with that too. I just don't know if that's going to be a pain in the butt. I feel like administratively having it in two places will cause headaches like how we got here where we are where it's but they would be right underneath each other in the same 5-2. Yeah. I mean regardless of what the council direction is, we would say pull hours of operation. It really shouldn't be there. It should be over in 5-5-2, whatever it is. So, we're really talking about an hour, right? We're talking about do is it do we stop it at six or do we stop it at seven? So, can we clarify then the the earthwork because what I heard from this conversation was is the earth work the the the grading only applies those hours restrictions only apply if you have a grading permit. The same exact work with the same exact machines could be done but could be done up until 7:00 if it didn't have a grading permit tied to it. So then that's where it gets to we're defeating the point of having two separate times because I would just avoid pulling a grading permit then and I would just no I mean not not avoid it but you know in the future when I have to do the final plaid and and finish up stuff I could be doing the exact same thing then that time should be six. So how do we how do we rectify that difference? If you pull it out of 11 11-8 the same hours related to earthwork it would apply to all earthworks. So it would be the same. You're just saying You're just saying hauling and earth work stops at six, all other construction activity at seven or you say it's all seven or it's all six or whatever other In fairness having different ones, it's going to be difficult to enforce for it's the police department at 6:00 or 7 o'clock that's going to be getting the call. Okay, they're digging a trench to lay a sewer line. Is that is that construction or is it good? You know, once they start building, is it a grading permit? And and that's where I would default back one time. And if if it's six o'clock, then it's six o'clock. If it's 7 o'clock, it's 7 o'clock. But we pick one time because I think it just makes it ever just administratively and forcibly easier. You know, I just I don't know how six o'clock impacts projects and things like that. 7 o'clock seemed the most reasonable. Right. It's in the Yeah. Does any other city have it separated like that? Like a separate for earth work dirt work or is it just unique to us? that the whole thing with the earthwork is kind of is unique to us and and even at the time it was in the Elco ordinance was unique to Elco. It's it's it's um it's more of an anomaly than the normal. Usually it's one set at a time for everything. It's just what should the time be? Okay. I know some cities have nothing allowed on Sunday. Am I jumping the gun or do we discuss that yet? And no holiday. narrow down our time first before we start. Okay. It occurs to me that there's a difference in who these are impacting. Right now 111, you'd be shutting down a contractor that's working in a field. He's not putting anybody out of their homes. Making noise that bothers their neighbors. So shutting them down is different than shutting down where you're trying to get a street built back together because people get into their garages until it's there's a different perhaps interesting hours in those cases. Well, we we we do have that. There's an exception for that because if you have somebody working downtown and the water mean the water shut down, they can't stop at 6 when half when you got an entire block out of water. The exceptions included, but I don't want to have to come and get a permit every week to allow them to work later when we need it done. So, That's an automatic exception, Rich. Yep. It's in in the ordinance right now. So, public projects are exe exempted, but private developments are subject to the rules. And and I and I like the one and I I can share this with whoever wants it. Uh but like Lake Elmo, I like it where they they have a specific subp part where it talks about uh if it's not if the construction activity is not happening no less than 1,200 feet from any direction from any dwelling it can maybe that's another automatic exception or something. So if it is truly you know whatever that would be a fifth of a mile and maybe that's not maybe that's not far enough that it would make a difference. Um so I mean maybe but it's something to consider. I mean, maybe if it's a, you know, a mile away or something and not that we would have a lot of that in a small town like this, but short-term administrative permits might be something for those extenduating circumstances, but my opinion, Renee may have a different one, is I would say you just have a set of hours and it goes back to what the chief was talking about. You have, you know, Officer Jones and it's 8:00, is it this or is it that? and they don't know whether they won't know or have access to whether or not there was a special exemption permit provided. Well, and Larry, you've confirmed, right? So, maybe that's a stupid thing that like GMO does on the record. No. Um, so, but just, you know, are there ways that we could get just for those extenduating circumstances, you know, those variances for temporary too? I don't want it to be a for the entire project they're exempt because of whatever. Maybe except for those public things that make sense, but if the council wants us to include something like that, we we can. That wouldn't be um unreasonable and might provide for those extenduating circumstances. I'm going to go back to the role of the planning commission though in this because are we supposed to basically draft what we want and tell the planning commission to approve it or do we send it to the planning commission to come up with what we want, propose back to us? Well, part of the process would depend on the guidance. From what we're hearing from guidance, there seems to be a major majority, if not consensus, that we're just going to remove the hours from that section of the ordinance. Technically, we can move forward with that process on whatever timeline it's going to take because we can only do it so fast. Um, we can come back and amend the ordinance in 5-5-2 as soon as we can publish legally publish it or put it on our website and come back to council. you only run into um you only run into a conflict because if if you are concurring with the hours that are already in 111 1118 then all you did was move it from here to here and we're um potentially moving forward Niagara would be held to the most restrictive hours and this process would just kind of move along. If you guys are going to do something where the a new Fendangle of ours, so to speak, we will still need to come back to council and probably don't want to make the change. We'd make the change concurrent with what's coming out of the planning commission. So basically in dummy terms we take 11 point 1118 we cut it out we put it in C under 552 and we don't have to do anything with planning commission because this has already been approved and now we're doing is switching it under almost all of the scenarios we're going to have a conflict until we remove the language okay from the thing. So Niagara will still be under the same restrictive hours that we have them under now until that is resolved. And it doesn't make sense to make the change to 5-5-2 and to do that concurrent with the elimination of the other stuff because you're eliminating the conflict and you're putting whatever you want in place at the same time. Tom, what is the role of the planning commission in this? They are required under statute to hold a hearing on it. Okay. Are they just purely holding a hearing? Are they actually like taking any action and making a recommendation to us or they could choose to make a recommendation, but technically anything in 5-5-2 is outside their purview. That's why we need you guys. So, they're just purely holding a hearing to get feedback. They're not really doing anything in terms of shaping a policy or making a recommendation. Not no unless I'm going to ask a dumb question. Why don't we just hold the hearing? Because under state law, you can't. It has to go to the planning commission. Welcome bureaucracy. All right, Josh, when you're governor, you're gonna have to deal with that. Okay. Well, I I guess I'd feel better knowing that until something happens, the the Niagara site would be restricted to six. Um I mean, whether for the whole thing, whether it's six or seven, I mean, to me, that's not a huge a differentiator. I don't know. I mean, I can go with either six or seven. I like the idea of having them uniformed. Um, that's that's my position. I'm definitely of the opinion of having them uniformed, you know, or uniform one time. You know, I think we debate that time or maybe that's a recommendation the planning commission wants to weigh in on if that's something that they I would say you guys just because again that's outside their perview really they're just procedurally holding a hearing. They can make whatever recommendations they want but ultimately it's going to be entirely your decision. So I wouldn't make it messy. Maybe a hearing isn't a bad idea though and people can show up and get on record and speak. Yeah. I mean it sounds like a hearing is going to happen either way. Right. But the hearing would be but the hearing would be for the elimination of the hours in 1111-8 and I'm not comfortable with eliminating it personally and I've talked to some other people who don't think it's a good idea because 11-11-8 that's from my understanding is environmental protections and that might be important under environmental protections. It's actually not um in the language. If you guys have hours related to earthwork, whether it's included in the overall hours or separate, it's still in the code and would still be fully applicable and still serve its original intention. It does create the potential for this type of occurrence in the future to have duplication overlapping hours. It's better to have it all into one spot and the rest of 11-11-8 will exist. So, the environmental protections are not gone. Okay. So the concerns Gina have will be alleviated. I mean nothing that she's concerned about it will be going away. Correct. Correct. Okay. It's just going to be someplace else. Are you okay with that, Gina? I I don't know. Part D is going to be somewhere else. Yes. Everything else will remain in this, right? But part D I feel like might be under environmental protections for a reason. I understand it. She's talking about ours. I understand that. But I would be more comfortable if maybe having a public hearing on that if that's what needs to happen because I'm not fully comfortable with removing it from 11-11-8. And that's what the hearing would be about is just the elimination of it. But we would need the direction from the council at this point in time is important because as part of that, the natural question is well then what's going to happen if that's eliminated? Well, it's addressed over here, but what is that? We need to know what that's going to say or what the council what the council's intention is. Can Can I ask a another quick question? So, if we pull it out of 1118, sorry. Does the public still do they lose any rights to noise complaints? No, it's exactly because it's up here. Correct. So, they're still protected. They're still Okay. I mean, essentially, you're putting hours of operation, which are handled in chapter 5, into the environmental section of the zoning ordinance. It shouldn't be there. I feel like we're making this as complicated as it could possibly be. We want to make sure that the chief has a good long last meeting. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying let's just I would like it if we just we're unformed or at least somewhat uniformed with what we communicate to staff and just with what we want and have them figure it out. I just want to clarify with the city attorney then one last time that if we remove part D from 11-11-8 it won't have any it sounds like it won't matter. That's what I'm hearing. It it it won't matter. I mean, if you take it as it is and you stick it up under 552, uh it'll have the same impact as it does in 11 except for it will reduce any confusion that staff has had in the past or that the uh police will have if they have to do any enforcement. It's it's much cleaner to have it all in 552. Okay. And it won't matter that the fact that and it sounds like it obviously wasn't intentional, but that technically this ordinance has already been violated by that the Niagara site, right? Since they've worked after 6, they they did and they did so because we hadn't we had advised them as we have other projects for the last 20 years that they could work until 10:00 under the ordinance. So as soon as we were aware of it, we did provide them with the restricted. We've provided an email personally. I provided an email to the job supervisor. I've spoken with him personally and directly on this particular issue. There's no lack of clarity and they are happy to comply with whatever the hours are. They were just operating in good faith based on the information they were provided. That raises a good point from earlier. Sorry, it was stated. I don't remember who said it, but I mean this developer subs, whatever, they never uh at least as far as I understand have requested a change to our ordinance uh to lengthen it and they complied immediately right away and completely understood and basically me paraphrasing. Well, it just is what it is and we're going to do what we have to do. I mean, so just to be clear, they they never made any comment or suggested that we change anything and that they were going to comply with whatever we ultimately decide at any correct. I believe it we'll do whatever you need us to do until you guys figure it out. I think is as close as I can get to the actual verbage. So, let's figure out our hours and then move forward. We don't even really need to figure out our hours, do we? No later than seven, I I I mean I think 5-5-2 can be changed from 10 p.m. to 7 p.m. That would be construction acceptable for construction or construction and grading. I mean, I don't like the fact of allowing grading another hour, but for sake of consistency, I think it would be good to I agree with you. And I think given the fact that there's there is a process that's going to have to go through. There's still going to be specific to Niagara, there's still going to be restricted to six and while this process is going on. So I I can be on board with seven knowing that knowing that everyone anyone feel differently. Do you feel like you have direction? I'm going to restate it just real quick to make sure it's clear. That's a really good idea. So based on council direction, we'll be eliminating hours of reference to hours of operation in 11 and 11-8. However, we'll be modifying 5-5-2 for all construction activities to be from 7 to 7 during weekdays. Um, and then uh it's still current. We'll have to make an adjustment on weekends because right now it's 9 to9. We'd make that 9 to 7 or if that's okay with council. That would be the intent. We wouldn't actually bring that change back until we're also bringing back the ordinance amendment to 11 11-8. and Niagara and any other con project that might start in the meantime will be constrained to those tighter hours of operation until all of that is complete. Is it also going to include in there that there's no activity on holidays like it is in currently or not? Um that's up to you. That's a good question because right now you currently can in 5-5-2 you can do work on holidays. No holidays. No holidays. And I think we should look at maybe no Sundays, too, like some cities have. That's up to you guys. I'm not opposed to that either. I would I would prefer no Sundays and no holidays. If we're going till seven, then I think that these people should at least neighboring houses should at least have Sundays free and holiday free. Agreed. I think it's restrictive, but I think we I I think it kind of comes to the point of balancing the fact that we really are a heavy residential drive-thru community. We have to probably be a little bit more restrictive to be responsible to that, I guess. Yeah, I'm on board. No Sundays, no holidays. Yep. So, someone just to make it clear, one of you guys in your yard, working on your deck, working putting up a shed, digging a hole in your backyard to put up a volleyball court. Nope. Can't do it on Sunday. You cannot work on your house on a Sunday. That's a good point. So, residential landscaping is not construction. There's like domestic power equipment section in here. That would be more That would be lawnmowers and whatnot. That's a really good point. Painting is construction. So we you got pressure. You had to open your mouth. I mean there I've been there and to go up to somebody working on their front door putting in their front door on a Sunday because it broke. Can't do it. Then can we specify? Yeah. If it's already a constructed building or No. Why not? Define construction. Construction would be any noise activity that I mean if you're swinging a hammer, you a storm came through and you're trying to fix a leak or just you got a leak in your house. You're up on the roof pulling shingles on a Sunday because it's finally nice. You can't do that. Well, it applies to electric, diesel, gas powered, or other power equipment. That's grading, but construction work is No, that's construction work. That that's that's how it defines construction work. Okay. I mean, that could be a weed whip on the contractor as long as household power. Oh, yeah. It's covered in, but this is part of the problem. But I mean, so it's not that simple. Yeah. So, the idea is that when you're thinking of those activities, it's not we can't be focused on it's just this one project. It applies across the board to all projects now and into the future. Homeowners, homeowners activity. So, if it's So, it's a good point. If it's Sunday and I'm going to get the power augur to go and drill the holes for my deck because I need to get it done this weekend because graduation party's coming up or whatever. They can't do it. Um, you can't mow your lawn. Yes, you can. No, no, can't noise ordinances and stuff like that. You cannot create noise before 7:00. So, that applies to a homeowner. I can't rip my riding lawnmower at 6 o' I stop that all the time. But it's these other things when you're on your home on your weekend when you have time. You can't build that shed in your backyard. So, the spirit of what we're trying to communicate is addressing construction, whether it be Niagara, whether it be street construction, whether it be whatever. We're we're not trying to specify what someone would do on their own property on their constructed house if they're doing stuff with a deck or what have you. How can we do this? Move out into the country. Damian, I love you, but you can't. You guys got you guys got to stop and we're going to recess the meeting. So, um I don't think you can because there's there's a reasonable of of um of equity related to it. Construction activity is construction activity. Arguably, it doesn't matter whether I'm working on my house myself or I have contractors re-roofing my house with power nailers and everything else or it's happening on the commercial building a block away. It's still construction activity and I think it would be hard for us to defend if challenge that there's a difference between the two because the exa the activity is the same. The noise is generally the same is the same. So how just because I'm doing it on my house and I'm doing it and a commercial contractor is doing it a block away. It's different. It's not I know other cities do it. Other cities have nothing on Sundays. What if we they do we're just the chief is just pointing out that you have to be prepared that the police department will have to enforce that somebody can't work on their roof on Sunday. Well, if we specified no earth work and hauling operations or dirt work on Sundays. Correct. So then you get back to not have that you would pull that type of activity out. We're just saying that sometimes it's hard it may be hard for an officer in the field to define Yeah, you're right. whether they're putting the pipe in the ground, is it, you know, is it grading or is it construction? Um, so much of it. Yeah. And not that I want to say I'll just say whatever I'm going to say. Is it a complaint based enforcement or is it a proactive enforcement? Because, you know, right? So, you know, am I going to be inclined to to complain about my neighbor putting up his deck or working on his deck on Sunday at noon? Maybe if it's a Vikings game and they're actually winning, I might care, but they wouldn't probably be doing that in the fall and winter. But anyway, the ATV, is it illegal or is it not? Are we going to come across it? What do you expect out of us? You know, and that's where it's so tough a dude that works Monday through Friday and or a gal and trying to build I would have to go up to him and go stop or I'm going to give you a ticket. And that that really does the the number of the summer is when we build things in Minnesota typically because you can't in the winter outside. A lot of the home that's why it's usually longer in the summer is because there's more daylight. There's more time to do these things. A lot of home improvement permits come in for stuff that people are doing on the weekend or on holidays or holiday weekends. Yeah. I mean, and I guess I go back to maybe what um we've been talking. I mean, a lot of cities are not requiring. I'd be curious how things go in Zetta, Edina, Eden Prairie, and others that specifically say nothing on Sundays and how many complaints they're getting. I mean, what they're forcing. We got them all the time when we had to shut down people's building and doing their personal stuff on a holiday or a Sunday. We have to go, man. Sorry about that. You have to talk to your city council. Yeah. Yep. So, okay. What about if we just I'm sorry, don't hate me. What if we just left it in 11118 as earth hauling can't be done. And then the construction end of it. So 1118 only applies to grading permits. If somebody has a building permit, that's not a grading permit. They can operate under the normal. That's part of the the conflict in the I know I I I remember now. Sorry. You just want to drag it out of there. Do you guys finish everything else? Completely solved. We wrote it basically. Perfect. And there's no way to say that it would be commercial construction versus home improvement construction. The hammer a hammer's a hammer and a nail gun's a nail gun. have different sections in there. I think there's an issue with intellectual honesty if we had to defend that in court. Yes. Because if I'm paying somebody to do my deck or I'm building my deck, should there be a difference if I'm having a business do it, you know, or whatever? What about just the grading though? Grading operations, not on Sunday. These are the grading operations and nothing else changes. the way it's written. If you set it at 6 p.m. I can give the contractor an exemption to work all night. The way it's written right now. I So, one thing that we need to point out is that we recognize this is a special situation, but we've currently had the seven to 10 for two decades. Never got a complaint. Let's Let's not go there, Tom. I know. I'm just what I'm saying is if we what I'm saying is if we and I'm just going to suggest this to try and move this to conclusion there's all these extra limitations if we go with just hours that feel are acceptable under most conditions like 7 to 7 7 to 8 7 to 6 whatever it is let's just go with I suggest let's just go with that and see if it becomes problematic the sun where I think all staff is pointing out is when it comes to actual enforcement of it starts become permont problematic and you may now start move away moving away from trying to protect the original intent of the ordinance of trying to protect individuals from nuisances of other properties and now starting to you're starting to potentially create the nuisance for the normal for other people really we're talking about Sundays and holidays I mean we're in agreement on everything well and correct me I mean even like with these big projects you know my understanding from the pre-construction meeting or whatever it was called. They weren't planning on ever working on Sundays. And I don't know if that was specified in any permit or anything like that, but could we specify it in a permit? Do we then we'd have to put in language? To defend that or justify that or whatever. I'm still curious how other cities do it. What if we made it like 9 to 6 on Saturday and Sundays? You know, we we can go back to this at any time and fix it or change it. Change it. Yeah. I mean, to your point, Gina, about seeing what other cities do. I mean, I I kind of agree with you, but at the same time, I understand staff is very knowledgeable about this. So, I don't want to really get into this back and forth necessarily, but it would be good to know what other cities are doing to enforce things, but we don't have to know that right now. We knowing that we can go back and we can change this whenever we want. Let's just let's make a decision for today on Sundays and holidays. I still say no Sundays and no holidays. I say I say no grading on Sundays and holidays. I will say no earthalling on Sundays and holidays. Gosh, man. I might want to put up a shed. Um, yeah, the grading piece, no Sundays, holidays. I think that works for me. I think a lot of home owners are working on Sundays, so I don't want to restrict that. Josh, I I would lean towards that if anything. Uh, because I just I don't think we need to get that restrictive. I don't think there's going to be contractors and folks working on Sundays and holidays because they got to pay their workers more. They got to it's just extra cost and everything anyway. So I don't think we're going to see that option, but I don't want to screw it up for homeowners and others to be able to do stuff to what chief brought up and cause us to go further. So hours are uniformed. The only difference is Sundays and holidays are restricted on when it comes to grading. Is that Yep. 7 to 7 to 7 is the 7 to 7 during the week and seven and 9 to 7 on weekends. Yep. Okay. That's very clear. Okay. And that's Thank you. We got through it. What's um anything else for administration? Do you want something, Mr. Mayor? Not really. Okay. Okay. No. Uh public works. Anything to pass on? Um no. Police department. Your your last update? Your last report? Nothing. Unless you have questions. Wow. Going out with the bang. I'm just thinking I still got to take down all this crap. Somebody else can do engineering. I mean, we're still reconstruction. There's no delays. We're still Every time it rains, it's a delay. Okay, fair enough. So, you can just look out when it's raining. Yeah. All right. Usually a day, day, but nothing else is troublesome at this point. It's going to be done well before. Okay. Nice. Uh community development. Um, you might be aware that the planning department or community development has been outdoing our city our annual spring cleanup code enforcement. Um, they'll wrapping uh letters are going out at this time. We'll be wrapping that up this week. There is a planning commission meeting on Tuesday. Uh, there is a concept development plan that has been submitted for a 89 lot residential development on the southwest portion of the community. And um, that's just a concept plan review. there's no public hearing. And also au on the agenda is a continued public hearing uh for the property located north of city hall. Um and finally uh discussion regarding detached accessory structures and whether we should be amending our code to be more lenient regarding detached accessory structures. Thank you. Uh parks, there was a report. Anything additional? Well, all right. CCC we did not meet. I don't have anything. Okay. Uh scale no meeting for the next couple weeks. Anything for service delivery? Yes, actually I do have a report this time. Um two topics really of note. The primary topic was a presentation of the first level of study from uh the consultant that was hired by scale to take a look at the possibility of doing a a uh consolidation. I'm trying to remember the word exactly. Um but basically a a coordinated self-insured pool where all the cities and possibly some other entities in Scott County would go together with the county to try and provide for better and more controlled health and you know insurance rates um going forward. Uh the county has been they believe successful doing it. Um the city of Shakipi was very interested in doing it because they've seen a lot of hikes in their rates in recent years. The initial study was just taking a look at the overall pool compared to the overall pool and it does indicate some benefits uh to it. Uh the next level of the analysis is then going out to the individual cities and saying okay this is what it would mean for you based on your history and and whatnot. So that's still forthcoming. Once that study's been completed and we get more information probably come back and have a com and we've consumed it internally as staff. will come back to the council with presentation of the information and recommendations on next steps if any. Uh the other item was uh I talked to the other cities in the county um currently or I should say for the last nearly 30 years uh open burning permits. So this would be not your recreational fire but the brush pile fires mostly for township residents. Those permits um are the responsibility of the jurisdiction which provides fire service. So for us it would be the city all of New Market Township and the portion of Cedar Lake Township issue those permits and they're an annual permit and they're fairly straightforward. Um because when uh the current chief became chief, city hall was only open two and a half days a week and there was no staff hardly. Um those permits were issued out of his business's office in town and have been for 20 plus years with um him not going to be chief forever. uh he's looking looked to move those permits to city hall. I had encouraged them multiple times in the past to do that, but he's like, well, the people who live out in the township who are generally older are used to doing it this way and it'll be more hassle to make the change than before we have to. Um it's not going to be possible to do in the future. As we had our staff take a look at it, uh one of the things that we found is that a number of city a number of counties in the state actually issue their permits through the DNR. So what it does is it removes the front counter burden from those individual cities of having to process this. And Todd has told me that we annually process three to 400 of these a year. Um and so this is a more way people can do it from home. They can do it at any time of day. They don't have to go anywhere to get it. They can just do it online. So I spoke with the county and other cities about exploring it. that the other cities are going to talk to their fire departments, take a look at their internal process, and the county is going to look at whether or not they do it. It would require them to host basically the link on their on the county's website, and then people click on that. It'll take them to the DNR's website. They pay five bucks and they just fill out the the permit. How long is the turnaround rate for a DNR to get back to somebody with their permit? They're done. That's seriously it Yeah, it's it's like some other state permits. it's issued at time. Uh the way the permit is generally structured is here's your permit, you just need to comply with these rules and then you need to call dispatch before you start to burn. Um so we're just looking at it. I think it would be a way to take administrative burden not only off of us but also off of the other cities, provide greater convenience and consistency for individuals if everybody in the county is going to the county's website. because right now you have people who aren't in our fire district coming to us because they don't know where to go to get their fire permit and we have to figure out where they live. It would simplify a lot of that. So just one of the things we do at service delivery of trying to figure out a way to do it more efficiently and that was pretty much the whole meeting this month. I like that. Uh 35 solutions no meeting discussion by council motions. I was just going to say Tom, any update uh regarding the municipal cannabis stuff or the subgroup work group thing that is willing worth sharing at this point or not? Well, um so legislation was passed. Um uh our the the lobbying efforts that we as a city took the lead on um were successful um in that it basically secured um an almost guaranteed license for municipalities if they chose to open a municipal dispensary. So rather than trying to change our prioritization relative to other lences, we essentially carved out there's just a separate single license for municipalities and in practice. There are is some qualifying language in there that how that plays out will have to be vetted in the rules and in practice in the future. But now um we as a city, if we want to pursue that discussion, can move forward with a reasonable assumption that we'd be able to get a license where before it was very iffy. um and probably unlikely. So, we've been successful there. Um we are still work preparing to tenatively bring the topic back to the council in June or early July to have a discussion of this is where we are, this is what we know, this is what we don't know. If you guys want to go further, this is what it's going to take. So, um we're in the process of pulling that known information together um to get into the feasibility market study aspect of it. That's going to require hiring a specialized consultant that works in that field that does that work. It's simply too specialized and beyond the knowledge of staff. We feasibly couldn't research that and bring it back in a way with a level of confidence within any reasonable time frame on the topic. So, we're in the process of getting uh a budget and scope for that kind of work to bring back at the same time. So, we know what it would take to go to the next level at least for part of that. So, more to come on it. Um, but that would be probably the next step in our decision process. Thank you for your work on this on that topic. I think a lot of credit has to go to council member Berg who acted as the point up at up in St. Paul. Staff simply provided the communications with our partners and kind of the backroom role, but the front line was really Josh. So, just accept. Thank you. Thank you to all involved. Thank you, Josh. And I'll let Brandon know he did a lot of work on this. Uh, any other discussion by council or motions to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Motion by Kate. I'll second it. Second by me. All safe. Thank you everybody. Good meeting.