Welcome to the Jordan Education um study session. Today is Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. Um, in attendance tonight are all members of the board of education as well as our superintendent, associate superintendent, and our business administrator. And we are excusing our board attorney this week. Um, let's go ahead and get started uh with an overview of administrative policy BP 178. These are our purchasing provisions and procedures for construction bids. So, we will turn the mic over to Mr. John Larson, our business administrator, Mr. Kurt Pruy, our director of purchasing, and Mr. Scott Thomas, the administrator of auxiliary services, and Mr. Dave Rostrom, the director facility services. >> Thank you. Um, so the board asked for a presentation on some of our uh purchasing uh procedures and some of the statutes and policies that we abide by. And so we've invited Kurt Prucey, our director of purchasing to uh present to the board. He has a a presentation, but uh we've also invited our facilities team because they are certainly integral partners in this process. Um, so if you have questions, please let us know. But, uh, otherwise, I'll turn it over to Mr. Percy to give his presentation. Good evening. Thanks for inviting me here. Um, I've got a a a slide presentation and I'll just be going over that, but if there's any obviously questions while I'm I'm presenting, don't hesitate to ask me. Um and then there'll be some time afterwards if you if you'd like to ask some questions. Um this presentation is uh mostly directed to the uh board of education but also to the public. Um so these are all um you know processes, procedures, code, rules that uh are are well um established in in our department but maybe not uh as well known to to you or to the public. But >> Kurt a little too. >> Do you mind if I just preface what you're going to say with kind of the the motivation for asking for this presentation in the first place? Um there was a bid that we approved uh several weeks ago for a greenhouse in Heramman and there was some concern about the cost of that and so there were some questions from the board and the public about you know what what are the procedures that the school district has um to to maybe prevent overspending or or just kind of how how does the whole system work. So that was the impetus for this um request. >> Great. Great. Yeah. Uh, and I won't be um presenting necessarily directly to that, but if there's any direct questions or specific questions, I'd be happy to to answer those. Um, first off, um, the construction process, it it really is not just as simple as um we want to build something and it it gets advertised and people respond and and then we get the numbers and then and it goes to the board. really uh dates back um many many months. Um and and first thing to to recognize is and I'm going to go this will be some of the things that I'll go over today is statute code and rule uh where the Jordan um Board of Education is a local um educational authority and I think a local business or local uh construction um authority um and they've been given certain rights responsibilities in Utah code uh as well as rule. Um we we'll talk about uh that briefly and then we'll go into uh some of the small purchases threshold kind of the differences between a small job and a large uh and then so also self-performance. Uh we do have some options for something like that. Uh then we'll go into some design professional uh selection. So architects, engineers and and design u and then we'll go into the design process. That's uh a lot of the unseen things that that uh go on for many months in preparation for a procurement. Uh then talking about selecting a construction method uh and what the process is with that and how that's um how we're involved in that. And then finally just the procurement um requirements that uh anytime we go out for a bid or or um RFP or something like that uh we have to follow. So, first off, let's just define what construction is. And and this is defined um in um Utah code and and rule. Um but it's basically means a project for the construction, renovation, alteration, improvement or repair of a public facility on real property, including all services, labor, supplies, and materials for the project. and it does not include services and supplies for the routi routine day-to-day operation, repair, or maintenance of an existing public facility. So, when we anytime we're talking about construction, almost always we're talking about something new, something remodeled, um, or something that is a major, uh, change in the facility. Um it's not Dave Rosstrom's in charge of the uh facility services of of the district and uh a lot of the maintenance of it and repair and things like that. Some of those projects can be considered construction, sometimes they're not considered construction. So this is the the basically the broad definition and and so that depends on um our procurement is how it's defined. Okay. So we we we first have to define whether it's the construction or not. Um, okay. Um, I brought my my reading material, my sleeping materials. This is the Utah procurement code with the administrative rules. This is something that the Utah legislature approves uh adjusts and uh and edits over the years. Um, and that's basically our kind of our procurement bible that that we uh that we follow. And there's definitely rules that are in there and and code that uh we we do need to follow. So that's first and foremost uh the most important thing when we're talking about uh construction procurement and that's found in 63G 6A 13 and 15. And then there's administrative rule that's accompanies that and that sometimes will clarify certain things. Um it doesn't have the same force as code but as a school district it it's been adopted by our rulemaking authority as the rules that we have to follow. So in that respect it is as code but it's not doesn't have to be followed by everybody in the state. Um not uh sometimes cities, universities, others don't have to follow the rule but we we do. Okay. And then finally um there's a con school construction and facilities resource manual. This is provided by the USB um and that has been updated uh most recently this year and it has everything from um what kind of materials and um electrical work needs to be done in the schools. It doesn't necessarily have the the code uh as in call a building code but it does direct how a school um school facilities are built. And so we we also take um it's not the same as force as as a code, but it is a lot of guidelines that that we follow. Okay. All right. We'll just I'm not going to read everything on the the slide. I'm going to summarize up. So um one of the things that we do when we first talk about a construction project is we look at the scope. We look at when we look at um what kind of a building is it. Is it a is it a new construction? Is it a remodel? Is it uh you know something that uh requires a lot of different resources not only in in-house but um outside in the in the um in the public. Um there's a lot of requirements that might be there. Uh there's location, there's size, scope, uh and then the source of funding. That's also very important. uh when we decide how to go out to bid, if there's any type of federal funds, then not only are we subject to Utah procurement code, there's a federal code that that we have to follow as well. So that sometimes complicates things and and adds to those requirements. Um again um the code does dictate and and these are the two things that I I definitely want to talk about is we we also consider the availability qualification and experience of public personnel um the staff that we have and I I feel very fortunate in procurement that we have a staff that can manage product projects. We have inspectors. Uh we have fire marshals, de deputy fire marshals. We have staff that can take a project from A to Z uh and and really ensure that we're building good buildings. Not all districts have that. And so we have to consider what um what kind of project management we do. Um then we also see look at the availability of other um outside consultants and contractors. So we can decide whether we want to manage things inhouse or we want to hire outside uh of the district. And no no two school districts do it the same way. Uh there are districts out there that will hire most of their construction management uh outside. they'll do and we'll we'll talk about some of those things in in there. But, uh, our our, uh, at least my history here of 13 years, we've had, you know, inspectors and project managers that do almost every single thing from uh, a simple greenhouse or or remodel up to, you know, a brand new high school. Um, that's, you know, many millions of dollars. and um they they do an excellent job of that >> question on that. >> Yeah, >> I in a private conversation I asked a question about this whether we could handle it in-house and the answer was yes we have staff available that could handle it but that their schedules are already so full that it would it would disrupt their normal routine and we'd start falling behind in other areas. >> Yeah. Is >> that is that accurate? Did I remember that properly? >> Very much so. And I'll address that a little bit later on on self-performing and things. Yeah. Um we have a Yeah, we'll we'll get to that. Um >> can I just can I just say something while you're there because and you can get to it later, but um the same question was asked. Can our construction um class build that? So if you can address that later on, that would be great too. >> Okay. um administrative rule. There are certain selection um selecting the appropriate method of of management and construction contracts. There there are so many different methods and I'll go over some of the the more common ones that that we use. Um we always have to document um why we're selecting a method. So, that's one of the things that's in the file, the construction file, is I have to make a determination of why why are we going about it this way or why are we using this process? And I'll go into those processes as well. But um that's a team effort as well. It's not something that I just necessarily say on my own um of how we were going to how we're going to go forward. I I really if it's a simple things that we've done before, then it's really easy. we'll we'll we'll follow this procurement process or this construction process but if it's something new um we get together and we decide um what what's the best approach and I'll give some more examples of that as as we move on um and then we can select a construction manager or a general contractor that's again do we handle it in-house or do we handle it outside and um one example would be the the West Jordan uh high school um remodel We we felt that because of some of the things that we dealt with with the Bighingham High School with multi-phases and multi-year, we felt that it might be better uh that the district might be better served. So that was one of the things why we we changed. So yes, we've done the process one way, but we learned that there's maybe we can do some better things. And so we were trying out this new method. And so that was a conversation we had months and months in advance. and and I think you all aware of kind of that process of how that how that went. >> So, can I ask are you saying that I Bingham's remodel predates me a little? I came in at the tail end, but that there was not a construction manager in that case that we handled it inhouse. >> No. Uh when I talk about construction management, that is really only kind of you have a general contractor, right? uh and they hire subcontractors, but sometimes there's a contra a construction manager that's on site that makes sure that some of the you know materials are are coming in on time or that uh change orders are handled appropriately and timelines are followed and typically our staff handles that kind of construction management. uh the Bingham example is we treated those as five separate projects, you know, basically consecutive consecutive years. So that's kind of how we handle and we broke it down that way. Um with the West Jordan, it's more of one project consisting of multiple phases over multiple years. So it's just a different approach. And when we figured that or we we thought that a construction management firm can do that and get in on the design phase earlier on instead of treating them separately. It's one project and house we can maybe have a smoother transition between phases and not have to go to the board every single year with a new timeline. But the construction is going to be done for 48 months. Oh, continuously versus 4 months, break for 8, 4 months, break for eight type of thing. So that's the just and there it's a different process. I'm not saying one's better than the other. We just have to consider that when we're going out for construction um procurement, what's the best way? >> Great questions. Okay, one one last thing. Um the the chief procurement officer, um I just like to call myself the director of purchasing, but there is an official title. Um I'm the head of the procurement unit. Um anyways, like I said before, there is a written statement that has to be done in the file of why we chose something. So whether it's the simplicity of it, the complex comp complexity of it, the size, the timeline, uh this and that, um I do make that determination as delegated by the board. >> That's like the justification letter. >> Um no, it precedes that. It it precedes it and no one ever sees it. It's just it's just a paper that's kind of in the file saying we chose this procurement method and this construction method because of A, B, C, and D. And sometimes it just A and B and sometimes it's you know very simple. Other times it might be more more complicated but that just it's just paperwork basically to say why are we doing it this way? So um self-performed work um there's no longer in code or administrative rule that a local education authority a school district uh is prohibited from doing construction work at any level. Um, it used to be $80,000 that limit, you know, if it was a project more than $80,000, school districts were not allowed to do self-performed work. And I would say six, seven years ago, maybe eight years ago, um, uh, USB took that requirement out. U, it conflicted with some of the things that were going on. Um, and u, it gave school districts more flexibility to then self-perform work. So there's really no rule why we we can't. Um it's just as we explained before, our resources, I think, are better served by doing um smaller projects and doing focusing more on the maintaining of facilities and repairing of facilities versus construction. >> Dave, would you mind just for all of our benefit just a quick uh overview of like how many jobs per month or per whatever your team handles. >> Yeah, on our on our maintenance side, we we maintain over 6 million square ft of building. So, that that's quite a task. Um, and we we average between 2500 and 3,000 work requests uh each month that come in from all of those the school locations. And so our our in-house, you know, plumbers, painters, electricians, we're very fortunate, have a lot of very qualified trades folks that uh that work on that to make sure that are, you know, our up to standard and and they're they're heated and cooled and taken well maintained. the throwing in a a remodel here here or a smaller project here throws a wrench in that 2500 projects a month, right? >> And we do quite a few of them. There's a they're typically projects that don't come before the board just because of the dollar amount. Um but like office remodels or uh smaller renovations, we're we're constantly doing that. >> Okay. Okay. official projects that we're doing. So, >> Dave Dave, would you say it's your default that if you can do it, you will do it? >> Correct. Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm trying to think of an example of a a bigger project that we have done inhouse is like what would be an example of the bigger end of projects that we might consider in-house? Uh we've done quite a bit of uh lighting upgrades. You know, let's we'll use an auditorium as as an example. We've we've went in and and did lighting upgrades rather stage lighting or house lighting, uh sound systems to a certain degree. We're able to do, you know, quite a bit of upgrades that way. Um >> roof tiles did are roof tiles done in house. the replacing the roof tiles >> on the the suspended ceilings. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> All of that type of work. We we do >> classroom conversions from classrooms to computer labs and now back to classrooms. So we've done a lot of those. >> Great. Um, so there is a small purchasing threshold and and I'm just going to go quickly over this. Um, but we can basically choose a contractor to do a work if it's less than $25,000. Um, there are some rules behind it. uh getting lists, uh pre-qualified lists, uh or um working with, you know, past contractors. But basically, uh if it's $25,000, um we can select basically anybody without getting any quotes is what it was it what it means. Um the next level would be above $25,000 but less than 100,000 by code. That's what it says is that we only need to receive two competitive quotes. Um we're we we actually have a little bit lower uh dollar amount in the district um for construction between 25 and 50,000. Um simply because at 50,000 we're required to bid the project. And I'll talk about what what requirements bidding is. Um when there's bidding you have to have um bonding, you there's advertising and things like that. But and and we're working on the more those change, the more the process um we um we change along with it. And we're a little bit behind in some of the new changes that they've had. Um so that may raise um the requirement and we're working with actually um the state to kind of make that 50,000 and 100,000 kind of together instead of having it separate. Um but uh anyways that there's there's different fle different flexibility that we have. We do require three quotes uh for projects between 25,000 and 100,000 um or as much competition as we can get um especially when we're bidding. We don't put a limit on how many people can respond at 50,000. Okay. um anything over 100,000 um there are design services are required. So an architect or an engineer needs to have plans uh or some types of drawings in order to to do that. So educational buildings require professional designs um to to do the to do the projects. And many times we'll use engineers um for say a a a mechanical upgrade, a boiler replacement or something, we'll use uh um a a mechanical contract or excuse me, a mechanical engineer consultant to do the drawings and things like that for us. But anything over 100,000 does require that um that we need to to follow. >> So what constitutes a building? For example, is a greenhouse a building? Yeah. Yeah. It would go under that first definition that I showed you. Any any type of construction or assembling of something on real property. And that's a greenhouse. A new brand new greenhouse would be considered construction because there'll be foundations, there'll be um some sewer tie-ins. And anytime you're uh not necessarily anytime you're digging in the dirt, but anytime you're modifying a building or making an improvement to a property, that's considered construction. >> So, you could have an architect design it and then you could maybe have it inhouse if >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yeah. We could get Dave uh Ros on the site is No, they Um, and then the rules dictate how to secure a design professional. And I'm we'll go over that just briefly as well. How how we select um architects and engineers to to do that work for us. >> Can I ask a quick question? >> You bet. >> With the last slide and then any past or future slides. So these are the requirements. Are there any occasions in which we set a higher different standard than what we're required to? >> Yeah. Yeah. I like that 100,000. Our requirement is um at 50,000 we'll we'll get bids as opposed to just getting quotes. And you know that's something that we've we've talked about or we will talk about more. It's just there's a lot of um unknowns. Um it seems like the DFCM um they can they have some different rules and that's in code that they can do it a certain way. Um, but we're required to bid at 50,000. So, I'm trying to get the code to be changed to, and when I say I, a lot of the districts are trying to get it changed and raised up to that 100,000 because what can you get built for 50,000 anymore and to go through that whole process? That's a lot of expense for uh a lot of time and things that we needed to work on, but also for the contractors uh to follow all those things and to get bid bonds and and to have payment performance bonds part of that uh signing contracts. If we can raise that up um I think you guys have recognized several years ago that you know you don't want to see construction projects even at 80,000. We raised that up to 150,000 because um otherwise you'd be seeing more and more and more of these projects just with the nature of what construction is nowadays. So great. Did I answer your question? Great. Okay. So let's let's uh pivot to um what kind of methods or or how we need to look at a project to how we're going to design a project because that's really how we're going to get our specifications for the project. And specifications are basically the who, what, when, where, how, uh how big, you know, that type of thing. and and the design professional can help us out uh with that and budgetary requirements by by engaging with them. Um and there's a whole, you know, code and rule that dictates how we select those. And one of the things that is unique, it's actually kind of the national um consensus is you cannot select a design professional based upon price. price cannot even be um talked about in that qualification uh process. So it's by uh qualifications, experience, uh expertise and and qualifications. And then the next step is we decide that and then we negotiate. And so that's when the district or Dave Rosburn will will negotiate with a design professional on how to do a job. But you can't select them at all based based on price. So, you know, an architect can come in, well, I can do that job cheaper. That's prohibited by law. And that's a basically a nationwide um um accepted practice. Yeah. Not even accepted practice. It's it's a lot of times law that you can't select it that way. So um any um design services under 100,000 we have a pool that we do we kind of do every 18 months we select architects and engineers that we can pull from for small projects and and typically if the construction's under a million dollars we can select a design firm to design that project by using the list and we work with facility services and and uh to select those. And so we just pull from those in a statement of qualifications. We call it an annual statement of qualifications and performance. And uh we do that like I said every 18 months. We just get new ones, not necessarily new ones, but um firms come in and we can add to the to it or you know subtract it from it if we've had some bad experiences. Okay. Um let's talk about educational uh facility design. um design professionals uh need to review the site and the adjacent community for design considerations. So they don't just look at the actual building site area, they have to look at the environment um and and what's involved with that. Um so that's one of the things that they they do. Um, also when they're in the design process, there's many different customers or uh interested parties uh with that and that would be uh starting with the site administrator, a school principal um or a director of um CTE um special education, those types of um input. Um the community councils have an input. Um in many cases when we're doing parking lots or other changes to a a school, the community council has um some input in in what is uh constructed in our schools. I don't know. I'm sure some of you have been on community councils where that was that was apparent. Um coordination with counties, cities, and towns. Uh there's a lot of that. That's um one of Scott Thomas's favorite things to do is coordinate with cities, towns, and and counties. Um but that is a you know consideration with design. When you have a city that is going to require something or a community that requires something um those have to be known before we even um have accepted designs. Um then custodian and facility services have input uh whether or not what kind of uh carpets going to be used or what kind of um walls are going to be used, what kind of tiles, what kind of bathroom fixtures, all those types of things are an input with uh the other departments within the district. And then finally, JSD board facilities committee uh has input on how we construct uh things and the priority of of things. Um whether it's safety, whether it's um collaboration, all those types of things. Um the facilities committee has a great deal of input on on the design aspect of it. And then finally, when when you're doing that, we have to find and develop a scope of work. Uh that's one of the biggest things to do when we select a um construction method or a procurement method is what are we doing? You know what what is the site planning? What's the design look like? U there's schematic designs. There's design development within that. Um there's construction documents that are thousands of or hundreds of pages and hundreds of pages of drawings. Um, and then the design professionals have an ongoing role after that. They don't just design it and then walk away. They they don't walk away until the last nail is hammered in or the last uh line in the parking lot is is painted. Um, and then they stay on and they make sure that that the district's happy and that the job is done. So, it really is um the design phase of things. And when we're hiring an architect or an engineer, um they start with us from the beginning and and go with us till the end. So, it's really important to hire a good um a good design professional. Okay. Uh I'm not going to go into much of this, but there are a lot of rules when it comes to educational facility design. Um, there's value engineering, there's life cycle costing, uh, staying current to changing codes and requirements. I've seen those seem to change every 3 to 5 years. Um, enhanced safety requirements. Sometimes the legislature comes in and and says you need to have um, tempered glass or you have to have um, what's it called? Ballistic film on on on windows. And so those things types of things um get in uh instituted. And so anytime we have a new building, if there's been new code or new requirements, um those have to be incorporated into that. Um and then peer review of the construction documents. Every every design that uh is made gets a peer review before it's released to us. Um so it's not just our design firm. part of the process is that they have to get it checked out by another party, another design professional. So that's that's something that kind of ensures that all the the boxes get checked, all the the eyes dotted and the te's crossed. Okay, now it's my turn. we get once we get to the through the design phase and that's been selected and and we're getting closer to um how are we going to buy this thing uh for better uh terms the the school district delegates to our department um to to do that to get out go out for bid go out for RFP go out for uh CMGC whatever the case may be um that's where that's where I come in and So knowing the code um and and defining the government entity of where we're um where we need to follow is is very important. So it just defines who a procurement professional is. Um so next we're going to talk about choosing the method. So again it's the when a project must be ready. uh the type of project uh the extent to which the requirements of the procurement unit and the way that they are be met are known. So sometimes um we don't know everything right up front. Um so if there's any ambiguity then we might select a different uh method. Um and I'll I'll talk about that and and what those would be. Um obviously the location of the project and again the size, scope, complexity and the economics of the project are all uh need to be known in order to select what kind of uh procurement we're going to do or construction method. Okay. Um again funding is one of the things um and and this I duplicated but it's basically again we take a look at what do we what resources do we have inhouse as school district personnel or and what can we handle and then versus what is out there in the public. what can we get from the contractors or other construction management and we always have to weigh that u before we make a a decision of how we're going to go about it. Okay. Um so the following they're just descriptions real basic uh of the most common types of uh construction management. Okay. um that it's not an exhaustive list, but it's pretty much the most common and what we what we're what we deal with on on a on a each project basis. The first is a single prime or general contractor. That's the simplest of every of of them all. We decide to have a contract with one other business and whether they uh hire that out to other subcontractors, that's up to them. But there's one contract that's between the Jordan School District and a contractor and and that's really simple. The the contracts typically more simple than than anything else. Um they basically get the architectural drawings and um and specifications and then they like I said can hire their specialty contractors or or not. It it's and that's the simplest form. And so a lot of our projects are done that way. Um we just choose basically we do a bid and um we select the lowest uh most qual or lowest qualified uh contractor. Okay. The second would be a multiple prime contractors. Uh this would be um we would be kind of act as the general and then we would hire out we would we would hire a specialty contractor for this phase. we'd have uh another contractor for that phase. So, we'd have multiple contracts with multiple uh contractors for one project. It's not as common to to do that, but there um I'd say back in the old days um when I worked for um Weber School District, uh Fremont High School was built that way where uh Weber School District was the general contractor and they went out and hired a mechanical uh they hired the excavation, they hired um the the framing and things like that. And so they had in that process they decided to save money to not put a air conditioning in it. And so that was just something that they they decided to do. And that's it. It it just used to be a more uh common practice. Um but uh it's not as much anymore, but there are certain um cases where we may do something like that where we decide here's the big project. There's two components. we're just going to have one contract with one, one contract with the other, and then they have to kind of work out the details in the middle. So, not as common, but it is something that we can do and that we have the ability to do that. Uh, here's one that's a lot of flexibility and a lot of unknowns. It's called the design build and basically this is when a team um will come to the district. We'll basically solicit saying here's what we're trying to do. um we don't know exactly how to do it. So, we're going to ask the the the public or the private sector to to help us with a solution. And we want a team of someone that can do the design and the construction and do it together. And so sometimes it's an architect that will that will take that lead and they'll get their their favorite contractor and they'll have a have a partnership or sometimes a contractor will respond and they'll have their their favorite architect in there. And so that's what's called design build where everything's designed um but it's selected and there's no bidding um because the partnerships already come in and and we've done that with two projects that I can recall. One was a freezer at at the ASB when we remodeled that. we decided to do a design build because um a it was a little more cost effective and then b it was there was just so many unknowns. We didn't have any specifications or drawings. Um and then I think we also did a a baseball uh at Bingham High School was one of the things that we did for design build. So it was more of a partnership. Um, this these are for projects that are very unique and they're in ways that we just don't know how to necessarily do it. Um, but it gives us the flexibility to incorporate a design with a contractor at the same time. Any questions about that? Heard a good example of that would be like u you'll see that happen a lot on like the bangader highway when they were doing these interchanges like onund or 98th and 126 they they always use the design build project on that just because there's so many unknowns that they're working on >> but it's very rare like say that we we use that. >> Okay. Uh the next would be a construction manager. We have the ability if we wanted to just hire a construction manager instead of doing everything in-house um to basically look at you know the the time, the cost, the quality of construction. Uh we can actually hire a uh construction manager to do that for us. And a lot of um school other school districts, smaller school districts will use that method. Um, I put down here on the bottom because sometimes this is known as the construction manager not at risk. Um, the risk still is with the school district because we're hiring a third party. Doesn't mean that they take all the responsibility. Um, they basically act as our employee, but we hold all the risk. Um, and and so that's a method that sometimes is used and it's unavailable to us, but to to this point we haven't used it. The construction manager general contractor uh or the CMGC is something that we we just recently did. Uh and this one is also considered a construction manager at risk. They do have all the risk. Now we've basically taken the project from you know design to construction to everything else and then signed a contract and then if it doesn't get done correctly or in a way then they're responsible and they have to make things right. So that's um the terminology that makes makes the difference there. >> Is it safe to say that those are more expensive? If we're asking a contractor to take the risk Yes. >> they're going to pad that bid knowing that they're responsible. >> Y and and that's a that's a great point. Um that's something that um just because it costs more does that mean it's bad? It it really if if if someone else has the risk and I want to pay them to have that risk, that might be money well spent. Yeah, that's a that's a that's a great point. A lot of other school districts use this method for almost all their projects, whether they're relatively small to massive, but they they like this this process. And maybe it's uh because they they do they want to keep the risk outside of of you know their employees and their in their district. So that is that is a process that they can that can we can use. That's another method. So those are those are the ba basic um uh construction methods we can we can use. >> What about the the other ones? What's the risk with those like the single prime contractor and multi-prime? Um so the single prime the risk does shift to um not all of it but some of it um shifts to a a single contractor. They take a lot of the risk but ultimately and and because we require bonding um that takes off risk from us but that also increased the cost to them which in turn increased the cost to us. But yeah, risk is a funny thing where we're you're I wish that uh Paul was here. He could talk about risk and and how that shifts and and how no one ever wants to have risk. Every wants to to uh to um take that risk and and put it someplace else and not be responsible for it. So um and contracts are all about that about who has the risk in what scenario. Um so to answer your question would be um the if we decided to do a multi- prime we would hold a lot of risk because we're hiring one contractor for this and one contractor for that and then there's a lot of middle ground and there's a lot of there can be a lot of fingerpointing. So then the risk to the district goes goes way up. Um, and so it it just all depends on whether you're risk averse or or you have good um contracts or good processes or you know where you're thinking about these things, good systems, I would say um you could you could benefit for something like that. If you don't have a the personnel to do that, you don't have the expertise to do that, then yeah, you take on a lot of risk. And so um that I hope that answers your question. Yeah, I think so. A follow-up question because a lot of ours need that bonding. Um, on average, I guess how much risk do we usually take on with some of our construction? >> Well, with the the contracts that we do, we usually have a really good um architects that they use pretty good contracts to alleviate the risk. Um, but it's it's never zero. um you know um going through COVID when um there was construction delays and materials delays, there was a lot of risk and so we actually took steps and I I congratulate the this this team over here because there were timelines of say electrical appliances that were 18 months out and they chose to purchase those things beforehand in order to use them later on. And so in that respect, we took the risk out of it by putting it on ourselves. And um it I think it paid off in in a couple different scenarios. Um but not having things show up um on site is just can be horrible on timelines and whether a project gets done the 17th of August or the 17th of October. and we always like to have it done by the 17th of August um and not the 17th of October. >> All of all of our larger construction projects, we take out uh a separate uh uh course of construction insurance through state risk. And so we we have some some additional backup and protection there. And really uh in the 15 years that I've been involved, I I can't recall of one instance where we've had to do a claim on our on our builder's risk or for that matter uh a payment performance bond. It's been very rare that we have to call upon those and get those insured and have a have a complete change of contractor in the middle of the process. So, I've I've never seen it in my, you know, 16 years of doing school construction. So, thanks. Okay. Um, let's go back to the what kind of method we're going to use. Um, it does give me the ability to and discretion to select whatever method we we feel is most appropriate. Um, and that's backed up in in code of of who can do that. Um, again, I don't make that decision by myself. It's always consulting with um with with the with the the guys here next to me. Um, but we do we always ask what's what's the best method? What what's Yeah, there's been been many cases where we've done it a certain way and we experience some problems and then we we change it and we decided to do it another way. and doing it that way, we decided maybe it's better to go back to the old way or something like that. So, we're always kind of changing and and looking at the different scenarios and and uh um requirements that that are in front of us. Um but once a method is selected, how does the district go about with the procurement of a contract or with a contractor? Um I mentioned before if it's under 25,000 we just go to direct award. Anything over 50,000 we go out for bid. Um we can do an RFP. Um that's usually follows the uh design build process. We'll actually go through an RFP. Um that method was used a lot with in the district before I came and I switched more to a multi-step bid where we're pre-qualifying uh contractors. So there it's it's kind of the best of both worlds. Um where you can qualify a good group of contractors and then you get the best price. So it's multi-step in that respect because you qualify them first. You make sure that they can do the job and then you bid it and low bid wins. And that's primarily what we do for the bigger projects. Um the the other projects we just go uh we we feel if we have certain little requirements like you have to be in business uh you have to have a business license or a construction like general contractor's license things like that. Um and if there's ever any worry um we can always kind of check with um references to see how they've done and if and we can always um really vet that out. Again, it goes back to um risk. How much risk do we want to take? And um the less risk the better for us. And so we we try to mitigate that that by choosing good partners. >> The pre-qualification process uh and and you mentioned we typically do that with larger projects. What's what's a maybe a a price range that would differentiate a large from a a not large project? >> Several million. Typically, it's new schools or very large renovations like the West Jordan High project. We're prettyified on the summer projects coming up this first year, which too was South Jordan Middle. >> Well, I guess that's a separate project, but yeah, we have it. It's rare. it has to be, you know, several million dollars uh typically before we'll pre-qualify for. So all of the smaller projects that come in like the the Haramman greenhouse, that's open to anybody to bid in there. The only the only thing they're required to do is make sure that they have a a bid bond um that covers it. That just basically is an insurance says, "Yeah, we've done projects similar to this in size and there's an insurance company that'll cover it. If they do not perform, we can go back onto that bond." So, it can eliminate the bid bond and performance bond can eliminate some of the smaller companies, but that that's a great insurance policy for the district that we have. So just just in general, >> our our policies and the requirements of the state of Utah in code and rule aren't so prohibitive in the small project range to prevent a wide variety of construction companies from submitting bids. The the only maybe real requirement would be they need to have the ability to get a bid bond. Is that okay? >> That's correct. Yeah, we encourage it. We're we're constantly looking for new contractors and and new bids. And even when we pre-qualify a contractor, the only thing we're pre-qualifying is the general contractor. All of the subcontractors, the electricians and plumbers and everybody that falls underneath that general contractor are not pre-qualified because our contract is with a general contractor. That's that's who we're going after. if there's a problem, they'll have a similar process for that we follow with their subcontractors. You know, they they want to make sure that whoever they hire uh is going to be able to complete the work as well. But the only thing we pro pre-qualify is the general contractor. So, still open to a lot of small, you know, plumbing companies or electricians or excavators. Uh we don't pre-qualify any of that. which which is probably 90% of the work anyways is by all the subcontractors. Uh the general contractor only self-performs on a very small percentage of it. So it's really the collaborating and hiring of of these and basically pulling all those resources into u one bid. Uh and so that's yeah we we want to make sure we have good good contractors. Okay. Um, here's some of the procurement requirements. And I'm not going to there's only about three or four more slides. And these are just some general things for you to to understand when we do go out for bid. Um, solicitations must be public advertised. Um, and that's done we use a platform that's shared by the state and several other of the community or other uh entities in the in the state. Um, and that's called Bonfire. Um, basically it's advertised and um, it doesn't cost anything. That's one of the things I definitely want everyone to know is we don't require any type of financial membership. They do have to log in and have a membership to to see these things, but they don't doesn't cost anything and doesn't cost anything to get drawings or specifications and doesn't cost anything to to bid. Um, one of the minimums is seven days. You have to have a bid out for seven days. I I typically don't think that's realistic um to to have people or contractors respond within seven days. So, our general rule of thumb is 14 days is the minimum. Um, a bid bond of 5% is required. Anything over $50,000 by code is is required. So that's in all our bidding documents to say you need to provide a bid bond and and what that means is if an awarded contractor does not enter into a contract with the district, the bid bond is forfeited. So then 5% of their bid is then paid to us and we've never had a to to uh collect on a bid bond. we if they choose not to honor their bid, usually the time is before it comes to you for for bid approval. Um, and there's been some great examples. I think we talked about it in one of our meetings where um, a contractor severely underbid and was awarded and despite all the efforts of those in this this room to make sure that was a a good price, um, they honored the bid and they're probably losing money on on the project. But instead of getting collected on with the bid bond, they they chose to go on with the project and hopefully save some save some money down the road. Excuse me. So that that's kind of like their insurance. So if they if they have a claim on their bid bond, it's going to be more expensive the next time they go around or their their premiums may go at a claim on it. So, similar to similar to, you know, an automobile wreck, if you had two or three automobile wrecks, your premium is going to go up and it's going to get cost you more for the coverage. That's why they the bid bonds are really nice because they it uh it protects the district and if the contractors fall through, it really hurts the contractor for for their next projects. Yeah. It just ensures that they're serious about the project. Uh and also we like to use the term in procurement the um the lowest responsive and responsible bidder. Um we always like to use that. So they might be responsive. They have to have a bid bond in order to be responsive. Uh responsible they need to be have the capabilities to to do the work. And so sometimes that's a pre-qualification process or however we want to to uh um qualify them. >> Bid bond is is part of the bid. >> Yep. >> It's a $50,000 bond. >> That's part of the bid and the district pays for that. Um >> but it but it's part of the bid and if it's not used if it's not collected then it's subtracted. >> No. So or do we get charged for that? >> The costs on bonding for bid bonds is actually quite low. I think Dave can explain that maybe a little better. But um the real the real expense of a a bond is one if it's a payment and performance bond which is 100% of what their bond is. So, they're going to finish the project in a timely manner, complete and and that they'll pay their subcontractors and those types of things. That's the real insurance policy that costs. A bid bond is is typically doesn't cost really anything. >> Okay. >> Um but it's only for 5% of the bid. So, if it's a million-doll bid, 5% of that, so $50,000, they would forfeit if they don't enter into contract with us. Once we sign a contract with them, then they have to have two other um bids that cost more money. And that we always say that is included in the cost of a bid. So, so a lot of them really don't restrict them from bidding on the project or cost them money until it's been awarded to them. and then they take that money. So, most of them are either the bid bonds will give it to them for free at no charge or a $100 fee just for the paperwork side of it. And if the contractor does not get the bid, that just goes away. If they're awarded the bid, then that money goes towards their their performance and payment bond. And then that's where they'll have to be able to cover the whole, you know, if it's a million-doll project, then the insurance company, the bond agency is going to uh insure them for a million dollars, if that makes sense. So, it really don't discourage uh people to bid on the projects because it don't really cost them any maybe $100, but then if they're awarded the project, then that's when it goes into effect. So, don't bid if you're not serious. >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. Um, yeah. Can I ask a like a hypothetical kind of situation? So, what if we had a group of parents that are in construction and willing to donate their time um to build a add-on of a school, maybe a sports component? Um, >> a playing field. >> No. Um, probably no, like a like a weight room, wrestling room or something like that. >> Yeah. >> But they're willing to do a lot of the work. They may not do the exact work that we do, but could we could we be the contractor and and have people in the community donate um their skills? How complicated is that? >> Yeah, we we've we've actually done several of those over the years. typically they don't turn out very well. >> Okay. >> We always encourage them to, you know, donate the money, let us hire the professionals come in. Uh but there has been a few of them where, you know, we've uh Copper Hills dugouts uh on the softball field and baseball project that way. Uh Bingham High softball field dugouts was uh worked that same way. So, we we've had some success. Um, but of more often they they turn into a nightmare for us. >> Very well-intentioned and they get down the road a ways and then it just kind of >> and they're busy with their own projects or whatever and Okay, >> but just to take that a little further, if they were interested, they could give a bid to a general contractor for zero dollars. >> Absolutely. And then assuming that we got enough of those, it could be the lowest bid if they're qualified and therefore >> that would be the preferred way to go. >> Correct. >> And and yeah, I'll add two things. Uh one, we have actually um in a couple different cases where they've actually bid. So we we went to bid and they structured their bid and their cost based upon uh volunteering time and materials or things like that. And so they came in and their bid was lower than anybody else because it was probably lower than than cost because they were donating. Um and then again to this to Miss Barl's point, risk. How much risk do we want to take on um by having someone donate their their time, no matter how well-intentioned it is, um they hit a sprinkler line and they don't have the capability of fixing it. they run into other issues and problems, then where does the risk lie? Because we didn't have a contract or anything in place, Dave's crew gets to go out and fix the sprinklers. Dave's crew has to go and uh you know, fix the cement. Um those types of things. And so, um, but we do, um, we do have to complicate the things, um, Darl, and, um, we we know people are well-intentioned, but, it's all about risk. And, well, it seems like every project I do in my house, it costs more money and takes more time, and I run into more problems than I anticipated. And I think if you're not a professional, that kind of can really be glaring. So, >> okay. So, so there's been a few that's been successful, but yeah, we've we've done quite a few of those projects. They're usually they seem to be focused more around the sports complexes, but we get those requests. >> Like being a professional is just is just part of it though because you mentioned risk. So, even the professionals make mistakes. >> Oh, yeah. Mhm. >> But but if you but if you have the contract, um Dave doesn't have to send his his group out there because the contract stipulates that if a sprinkler line or a water or anything is hit that they're going to take care of it, right? >> Absolutely. Yeah. Great. Just a couple more slides. We're almost done. Um so in in uh going out for procurement we scope of work is is so important because it needs to be clear, concise and and fair. Um and and part of that would be getting everybody that's interested in in uh at one location at one time. And that we can do that in a with a pre-bid conference or a jobwalk. And most of our projects that we do, we invite uh contractors out and it's usually, you know, a few days after we've advertised it, gives it some time to read some of the, you know, the drawings, specifications, and then they have the chance to come look at the project. That's a a a very important part of what we do. We can make that mandatory or we can make that optional. Um but that is and and then anything that's said there um we can transcribe things. We can we can take those things down. There is attendance um and so if there's general contractors that attend u they and we publish that attendance and then um subcontractors know who they can submit their bids to. Um and it's a it's a really effective way for us to have everyone on the same page to understand and be clear. there's no surprises and they're really it's it's a great for us and it's great for the subcontract or the contractors to to understand the scope. U there's also as as a requirement you have to have a question and answer period. So that's that has to be stated that and we do that through the uh the bidding platform where all questions are asked there all answers are are answered there and so there's no phone calls um you know Dave doesn't get phone calls the architects don't get phone calls uh it's it's very important that if a question is asked it should be a question that everybody gets um is privy to and then the answer is is is done to everybody But again that's that's a requirement that has to be made with the solicitation. Um any addendum um to the specifications then are also part of that. So sometimes um during a job walk um something comes up and said hey what about this? And so an addendum needs to be made by the by the architect and those are submitted um to to change basically the specifications or or change the drawings. That's all part of the process. We have to allow for that. Um product alternates. Um if there if we're specifying a certain type of cooling unit or a certain type of hardware or something like that, um a lot of times it's what's the word? Um >> substitution. >> Yeah, substitution. But it's we make a specification based upon something of design >> just a kind of a standard of >> standard of design that's the word that I was trying to use uh or try to find a standard design so it's might be a certain model that we're specifying but if some other model or manufacturer can be used they can they can bid that and and the greenhouse was one of those examples um but they have to get that approved beforehand. So all that has to be done within that twoe period or or 3-week period to get those approvals. Um and then they once they're approved then um they would make that part of their bid. So those are all requirements that we need to consider when when we're bidding those out. Um lastly the the we have to know when the bid due date is uh what time and those are strictly enforced. Um, back when we didn't have the bidding platform, um, there'd be several contractors in the parking lot furiously writing down all their their subcontractor bids and their total bid and they would come running into the office and make sure we have it stamped by 2:00 p.m. Mountain Standard Time. Um, and if they were 1 minute late, unfortunately, they were late. And uh that was I I I I experienced that a few times in my my early days, but now we haven't had to do do that for quite some time, but it's very strict. Um they they need to be sealed bids and back in the day has to be an envelope. Uh now they're just sealed. We can't look at those bids until we actually the bid due date and time is over and then I open those electronically and then we're able to see those. Um that's again one of the requirements. You have to have a sealed bid. Um the alternates uh can be considered and evaluated based upon budget. Um so we can have different alternates for a project. Um that has to be specified and and um I can go into that more but I think you guys are at least the the board members understand what alternates are and and sometimes they're options. It gives you more options. Um, and we can get bas the basically the best bang for the the mo the least amount of money type of thing. And then lastly, the payment performance bonds. Those are always required in projects um over $50,000. And then uh those have to be turned in in order for us to to enter into a contract with them. Okay, that's all I have. First of all, thank you. Is there any possibility that we can get access to the presentation? It would be a great resource when you're telling us about a project to be like, "Oh, yeah. I know what those acronyms mean." Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> So, I have a question during the I'm going to go small to big. So, sorry. I know we're talking about construction, but let's imagine that um the tennis team wants to hang banners of their seniors and we have a graphic design classroom in the high school that has the capability to print those banners. Could they bid on that project and potentially be chosen as the bidder? We would pro we probably wouldn't even go to that point if if we're doing in-house if we're doing you know like for instance yeah they're they're doing the flyers themselves there would be no need for bid. >> I'm just curious if we have an exceptional teacher who wants to create real world experiences for students in the field that they're learning about. could they participate? >> That'd likely be a special project. It would be between that teacher and the school and the administration. Now, we'd probably assign an inspector to go out and make sure that they're secured correctly and and meet those requirements, but that'd be a good example of a special project. >> Okay, so now let me expand that. Let's imagine that we have a construction management class at JATC South and they were interested in bidding on a greenhouse for one of our high schools. Would they be eligible first of all to submit a bid and I would they have to have bid bond if they did that? >> Yeah. the the again we go back to risk and so any requirement that we have for construction would be a general contractor or someone that have a business license so because they need to be bonded insured and and um I didn't even get into some of the rules but there's certain projects you have to have drug testing you have to have uh everify which is documenting workers and um I've even read somewhere that they have to provide health insurance. Um, that's something we we we don't have in our in our specifications, but basically they have to have a business in order again to have where's the risk involved. It >> that is a Jordan district requirement or a state requirement? >> State requirement. Yeah. That that there needs to be a business license in order to to construct or do something. So, yeah, if they wanted to I mean, if you had a teacher that had a I guess we're we're looking at hypotheticals here, right? Um, we have a shop teacher that has a general contractor's license and he wants to use class students to do the work. they would have to be employees and they'd have to be insured and protected and, you know, be paid basically for for that for them to do something like that. >> That would be if they're running it through his business. But, you know, I think a lot of it would just be is if the the teacher felt comfortable, they felt like they had the ability and capability of of doing a project, that that wouldn't be a problem because we could still inspect it and and oversee it. just wouldn't go through the full procurement process, right? >> No, we would just we would just do it. And and that's where you may have, you know, they may like on a greenhouse, maybe they'll say, "Well, we can do the erection of the greenhouse, but we really can't do the underground sewer. We can't do the foundation and stuff like that." >> The excavation things that you'd need that specialized equipment for. >> Yeah. So it would it would I think each case would be uh would have to be identified and looked at individually whether they was able to to handle the project. >> President George, along those lines, I mean a good example would be could they build a portable classroom? I think that that might be a little more realistic, you know. >> Yeah, they're they currently build sheds, you know, that's they're >> they're selling sheds through the program. So >> a long time ago I know that we used to have like home building as a almost a CTE pathway. Is that a fair? >> So in that case that program had a business and like a business license. Were students paid to participate in those builds? >> Dave was in that program. >> I was going to say we have a few experts in our midst. Right. just a few years ago. >> Just a few years ago. >> Yeah. But they would have, you know, they would have a a licensed electrician kind of come in and inspect and oversee the work as well. >> And so did we have to pay students >> or was they experience? It's like an internship. >> Yeah. Didn't pay the didn't pay the students. That was just part of their curriculum and the work that they done. But they they would pay uh contractors to come in and oversee the work. >> And I understand also if and correct me if I'm wrong, didn't they like excavation and some of the foundation work and things like that was subbed out? >> All of that was subbed out. They didn't do that type of work. It was it was the plumbing, the framing, uh the paint, >> sheetrock, electrical. They >> But but like I say, it was kind of a combination to where there was there was still professionals hired to to oversee and make sure if the work was done correct. Follow up on that, maybe it's to Dr. Godfrey, like could our construction company build a greenhouse? Cuz we're one year into it and they were building a little tiny house and some sheds. I think building a project of this magnitude at the newness of our program would have been very difficult at this time. Maybe in the future, but >> I haven't explored that possibility specifically. But one of the things that I think is useful about the tiny house is that it gives a chance to work on a very specific set of skills that matches the curriculum and the expectations. Whereas if you if you were to take on particular projects with that class, it may or may not give the right amount of >> the right blend of experiences for that number of students, >> but I don't know that for sure. That's a question I would want to ask. But that doesn't mean that that particular class has to be the one that that does that. If that's something the board would like us to explore, we can look at a greater portion of your of your schedule being devoted to construction. Maybe half your schedule is this class and half your schedule is working on a specific project with the district. So I that if if the board wants us to pursue that as a separate question, we can certainly look at that. I think there are I think those homes took a long longer time than usual to build is the other question I would think is timeline on project completion and the vicissitudes of construction costs over time are things we might need to fold into that. But there are lots of examples of where we could, I think, leverage student abilities and our programs to a greater extent. For example, within our CTE programs, I know this is a far cry from building a greenhouse, but it speaks to your earlier example. We have different machines to create t-shirts and we have class t-shirts that are purchased from outside companies. and I have been interested in seeing how we can leverage our class capabilities to fulfill other classes interests. So I do see a pathway forward to do a better job of leveraging student talent and our equipment to meet our needs. But I als I I never would want to do that at and and sacrifice the experiences we want students to have. So it that's a question that I don't know the answer to. >> I feel like we heard a little bit of a desire for that through our portrait of a graduate process that we want applicable experiences in the classroom. you know, instead of just learning a math formula, maybe you're figuring out how to bid a project. Or um maybe instead of just learning how to design a sticker to take home at the end of your graphic art class, you're designing a specific project that could meet the needs that your peers have in the school. I we I can't imagine how many projects we bid outside of our district when we have the equipment and the capability inside of our district and children could be building resumeums while they're in the classroom which I think is a really exciting thought personally. Um, so one question that I have for the board is um what what parts of the bid process would be helpful for you to have in a different form or um a different timeline? Are there things that you feel pressed upon like, "Oh, I have to vote on this right now and I found out about it on Friday and now I don't feel ready." I've heard some expression of concern to that end and I'm interested in um really zoning in on what specific things could we try to improve in the perspective of the boardroom. Now that you have an understanding of what the process looks like on the other side, >> I would like to know or discuss more about our getting alternates and when that's appropriate so that we have options rather than just one. There any other interest in that? Can I ask how complicated would that be to request some bid bid alternates into a bid before it's presented maybe on a large bid over a million or whatever. >> Can I clarify? So you're asking for the bid to be broken down into components. For example, with the Greenwood or with Greenwood with the Greenhouse Greenwood sounds like a CW series from the mid 2000s. Um, >> if if a if a if a greenhouse, for example, with and without plumbing or with or without a gravel versus a cement floor. Um, is that what you're asking about? >> Kind of a need to have versus nice to have. So maybe a basic bid versus here are all of the things that would add value and this would be more expensive, but here's what we add. So then we have an option to say that's just a lot more than we expected. Maybe we do the basic instead of the Cadillac. >> And I wonder if I like the idea of bid alternates. I would imagine that would be a bit more work for people who are bidding on a project. I wonder if it would be helpful for us to understand project scope before we saw a bid like to know, oh, this is coming down the pipe. You know, how all out do you want it to be so that we're we're able to better present our needs to those who would bid on it. >> So, that was my concern. So, like we got notice that this was coming. I think it was Sunday night or something like that. I looked at it. I looked at I think we had four other bids, maybe five. Looked at the bids there that we had. Um, you know, I asked a couple questions and but I was surprised because Brian had these really good questions that I hadn't heard until that moment and um it was frustrating a little bit and I asked maybe we could table this and we couldn't. So, I kind of felt like in a box, I got to vote no, then it dies. Or I vote yes, and I'm not sure about that. Yes. And in looking at it after the fact, I'm more confident that my vote yes was a good thing to do. I feel I can justify it, but I would have liked to have more confidence at that moment. So, I'm just wondering, could that have come to facilities first or something like that, especially a big thing, and then we could ask for some alternates or or something like that. So, we're not surprised by something so big, you know, and you know, I always like to say, let's not give us any surprises. And and I don't think there's any fault to be blamed cuz um I think that they did do their work. I just don't know that we had the preparation to really make a lot of qu you know, I like to hear those questions before that moment so we can search and look at it and those kinds of things. So, um and then we could have broke it down. We could have at the facilities committee could have said, you know what, this let's break it down. Could students do this or what would a gravel floor be? And we could have caught it earlier and it would have been a better process. But I don't know if we need to do that on every single bid. That's the problem. Like what ones do we do it on? And >> so is that a price point, do you think? Maybe >> like if it's 500,000 or more then >> like we don't need to see white paper you know but I think it's since it was a structure a structure as it was construction facilities >> um it should have really came through facilities I think it would have it would have helped prepare us a little bit better and so I don't know if there's a money limit cuz like it would be different if it was a you know purchase of a program then I don't know if facilities needs but maybe executive committee could look at that or something but I just think that we need a little bit more light you know time that we have go ahead >> I'm Were you going to say something I personally I'm not I'm not interested in complicating this the process that we have I think if we had at least for me if we had a well-defined way to deal with the problem we experienced during the greenhouse bid. >> What was the problem? >> The problem was some of us were wondering at the time of the bid, do I want some more time to think about this? And it was only actually after the meeting had concluded that I realized, oh well, one option is for someone who voted again, someone who voted for it to do a a motion to reconsider. I didn't even know that was an option. If if we had a well- definfined way when when two or three people are thinking like Daryl was saying, I'd like a little bit more time here and we vote on that defined process because I don't want to get into the business as a as a board member of doing their job, you know, determining whether we need alternates, you know, what the what the price points are. I'm I'm happy with the work they do. It was just this one particular situation where I needed more time and I didn't have it. >> So, >> we had the power to table it. We just were caught in the moment, I think, because we could have tabled it and brought it back on the next agenda, >> you know. >> So, just to clarify, we we could have made a motion to not vote on it that night and then brought it back >> to the study session and voted on it. Is that is that correct? >> We could hold any We wouldn't have to wait 30 days. >> We could hold any type of meeting. >> That motion was made and failed. >> Well, at least discuss. Did we make the official and failed it? Okay. >> Failed. >> I couldn't remember if we made the I knew I I wanted it. >> We were given the information that the bid would expire before our next meeting, right? Am I remembering that correctly? And so it was like, well, we don't want I mean, we we want to honor the effort that those who bid on our projects go to to put the work in and and I certainly I don't think anyone on the board wants to underplay that effort. But yet it was it was a tricky situation because it was a time when we did have more questions. But I think many of us felt like well I don't want to make people start all over just because I have more questions. So my my concern about what Brian shared as far as a motion to reconsider is then that motion is two weeks later. the ball is already rolling. It would be better if we could pause at the time and not vote. That's what I would recommend. >> So, would you recommend that if it meant that we held an additional meeting to talk in between our regularly scheduled meetings? >> I would be open to that >> and any one of you could have motioned that. I >> got the power to do that. I move that we table this and have a meeting in one week. >> I second. No. >> Well, I think also part of that process would be when does this bid expire? Can we ask for an extension? Is it are we going to meet before it expires or do we need to schedule an additional meeting? >> For me, I would really appreciate that information in the paperwork. Just knowing when does this bid expire would be helpful for me to understand my options as a board member in this in the moment because most of the time we don't need it. But you don't know until you're in the meeting occasionally like oh that good point I I share those questions. So, I'm I'm open to and please those who are experts in this field fill us in like well what you're saying right now doesn't really make sense. I'm open to hearing that. But is there a way that we could have had any of those things those opportunities seen the scope ahead of time or um maybe known when the bid expired or something like that? Yeah, we we can certainly whatever whatever you'd like to see, we can we can bring to you. Typically, we hold them for 30 days as part of the bid package. It's hard to commit for the contractors to permit past 30 days just because especially if it's what we've experienced a few years ago. You know, some of them were saying we'll guarantee the price for 7 days and that's it. uh because things were changing so rapidly. But typically 30 days, but it could be, you know, the the bigger projects, we try to get them to where they're closing like a week before the um the board meeting in case there's some things we need to adjust internally or decide. There's been projects that we put out to bed and they've come back and we're not happy with and we never you guys never even see them that we've we've just said no we that's not within our budget we'll have to look at it in six months from now. Um >> so did I understand that you have the bidding close a week before our meeting? That's that's >> so then we would have 30 days and maybe two meetings within that time >> from when that from when that closed. Yeah. The day >> not always but yeah most of >> and and if I can interject we we can make any requirement about when how long the bids last. Whatever you'd like that that's really no problem for us. Um it's just sometimes that time adds money is all. And if again if that gives you a a better comfort level to have that more time then we will do that for you for sure. Um but they may have to pad their bids if they know they've got to guarantee that price for say 60 days and it may limit some of our some of our biders. >> Is there a a website um or an internal link where I could go and see all the open RFPs that we have? Right. >> Yeah. You can get on the bonfire. I can send that link. Um, and it's on Bonfire. It takes a little bit just to kind of identify. You might have to set up as um Brian Barnett Incorporated. No, just sign just sign in. Um, and then you can select you can select anything that comes out of Jordan School District. You'll get a notification. Or if you want to skip that and you just want to go manually into it and you can select uh you can select Jordan School District. I just want to see all Jordan school districts bids. Um, >> if I had done that um a a month prior to that meeting, I I would have seen the or a week or two prior, I would have seen that that Jordan School District >> Yeah. >> going out to bid for a greenhouse at Herman High School. Yeah. So, the information is out there. It's just that we weren't sure where to find it. >> Okay. >> Any current contracts Kurt lists on their website? any of the open and current contracts. You guys also advertise the projects on the on the district website as well >> for you can just go to our website our Jordan School District purchasing department website has all those ones that are outwarded. >> Yeah. Any any current ones and then Yeah. and and then anything that within the last year we typically keep just >> and there and there's a link on the website that'll link it'll take you right to the bonfire >> I >> go ahead >> I was just curious so for like bids we're seeing tonight did they close like last Tuesday or Monday because you said they like it closes >> so tonight is the school buses and fresh baked pizza. >> Yeah. Yeah. That was a RFP process that been going on for over a month and it closed probably two weeks ago. Um the buses wasn't an official bid. We used state contract but we got the pricing on Friday. So um that one you would be able to see um the buses just because it's a state contract and so we don't have to do an official solicitation for that. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um, so I'm just curious if during uh the agenda planning meeting if our executive committee knows what bids we might be seeing and if they do, could we the rest of the board members be alerted to that? So then we have a little more time to look at those bids if it's available. >> Maybe >> we see quite minimal information. So it might give a bid title and then say bid X to do X. It it's not filled in at that point. So it wouldn't trigger questions because you wouldn't see prices or anything like that. When we receive the draft, I send it to you immediately. >> Right. Right. to to to summarize I think what we're talking about the you can decide how much information you want and when you want it and we will absolutely provide that sometimes there's a cost associated with that because if you widen the window of a guaranteed price they they may have to pad that so the other the other factor that I've seen over the years is we districts ask these four, how did you get that price on that building that school? It's because they know exactly when in January to put that bid out there. So, you can't you also can't just say, okay, we're going to wait so that the bid comes in right before board meeting because there's a there's a sacrifice that comes with that. So, we can do anything that you're asking. It's just there's a cost associated with that. And right now we've been operating because to an earlier point, most bids go through. Most bids do not raise questions. So these folks have timed things and structured things to get the best price and the fastest response while still giving all the information the Friday before the Tuesday board meeting. If you want to change that timeline, you just have to tell us and we will adjust. and we will make sure we meet that expectation every time. So I think there's that question on the front end. How early do you want the information and what information do you want? Then there's the question on the other end. How long do you want the bid to be good beyond that board meeting? And we can make sure we meet those parameters. Whatever cost is associated with that, we can meet those parameters. I think in this case it would have been difficult even with a committee or even with a certain amount of information in advance to anticipate the questions board members would have until there was a discussion. I don't necessarily see that as a negative thing. To me that's evidence that our meetings and I think this sets us apart from some other entities. Our meetings are genuine meetings where decisions are truly made and true discussions are had instead of just formalizing what's already been decided. So it's a transparent genuine process. So I think it's good that there can be the type of discussion that changes the course that we thought we might be following. But I like the idea of being able to either through discussing it to give greater clarity or setting up another structure. I'd like board members never to feel painted in a corner that in any particular meeting you have no choice but to move forward or to abandon entirely. So that you know maybe we don't have to slow things down, maybe we don't need a larger window, but just so that maybe it's just through this discussion or through structuring things differently that you are confident in knowing we can set up a meeting 3 days from now and ask that our questions be answered between now and that time rather than thinking that we can only meet on these Tuesdays that we set aside a year ago. Um that's so tell us what parameters before and after the meeting you'd like to see and we will meet those. Sometimes there's a cost associated with that but we're happy to do that. And then let's just make sure that through a reminder or through a restructuring you never feel backed into a corner to make a decision in that moment that you know you can buy yourself some time. Can I just re reiterate again, I'm I'm personally not interested in disrupting the what I think is a well-running machine. We have we have people that have been doing their jobs for 15, 16, 20 years and and I feel confident that they've learned how to do it very well. The only thing I would like is kind of what you were just hinting at and what we've talked about was just a well- definfined way to say this this particular job out of the hundred that we've already approved this one I have some questions about. Can we hold off on this and and and and what's the process of doing that so that so that we all understand and if we need to meet the following Thursday afternoon to talk about it. Yeah. just those types of things is is kind of all I'm I'm interested in. >> So I share >> but do you feel yourself empowered to do that? That is not them serving you. That's you taking that and every board member needs to say I don't have to do anything I don't want to do and I can propose a meeting tomorrow. I can propose a meeting in two days. I'm not going to wait for them to tell me to have a meeting in two days. I am empowered. So the question is do does every board member feel empowered to say I'm uncomfortable making a and so I'm going to make a motion and propose this and I would add to that make that known to us ahead of time like if I would have known your concerns ahead of time um and you would have called me and say hey Darl have you looked at that bid that would have persuaded me a lot to say well wait let's hold up or let let me vote no because I just didn't have the same questions that you had and I heard heard him at the at the meeting, you know what I mean? So, we should all have be feel free to call each other. I I was uncomfortable with things on the boundaries. And so, I called several of you and realized that like it's something that I was concerned with, but you weren't, which is fine, you know, then then I could I could operate and make those decisions there. But I think sometimes maybe we just need to share with each other, hey, this is really weird. What do you think? And then that that helps each other >> and think in terms of a motion in in terms of I am proposing I would like to propose that we make this motion instead of instead of well I have a concern >> it's I propose that we take this action and I think if we if every board member feels empowered to take whatever action you feel improp appropriate and then let us think in terms of I plan on making this motion and here's why then ask call me if you have any questions but I I propose I plan on making this motion at the meeting for these reasons. Please let me know if you have any questions about that. the the information we've just shared over the past half hour, I think has been an education for at least four of the board members and and I think now we all feel a little more quote empowered to to do what Bryce was just saying. It it's it was just I think maybe a lack of understanding of of what a board member can or should or shouldn't do, those kinds of things. So, it's been very helpful. So I still think there would be some utility for me in saying this bid is good until is that a big ask? >> No. No. >> So if we could add that then a board member could in the moment when questions arise look at it and say I motion that we table this and schedule a meeting for this date. Whereas in that in that meeting, I didn't feel like I could do that because I wasn't sure how long the bid was good and I didn't want to start the process over for something that I didn't even know was a concern at the time. Um, so that would be a change that I would actually like to request if the board supports it. >> So, so what do you mean like have it on the document say when the bid expires? >> Yeah. So maybe yeah, next to the the bids it just has a date, an expiration date. >> Okay. With that, that would be helpful. >> Doesn't seem like that would be problematic. So we can just add that and then you go into the meeting knowing, okay, if I'm uncomfortable with this, this is my window when we could meet again and still use that information. Yeah. >> Because I think the motion was made, then that comment was made like, well, if you do that, you're making us start over. and everybody was like, "Well, I don't want to do that." So, the motion failed. But if we had had that piece of information, it could have been a different discussion. And I think that's a simple, it doesn't change our process. It empowers board members to feel more confident. >> Okay. >> Can I have ask two questions for clarification, >> please? Um, first off, is this only for construction that you would want this for when when the bid is good for or do you want that for everything? Whether it's pizza, um, whether it's buses, um, or is it just construction? >> How big is the ask? >> Um, oh, so like the buses would be um, >> how hard is it to >> How hard is it to to write that information on? just always throw it on then. Yeah. >> If it's not a huge hassle for you, >> if it's type a few more characters onto the document, great. Yeah. No, that would be easy. Sorry. That's why I wanted a clarification. Second would be um would it be helpful to you to have it structured because we know when bids are due and when board approval is given. Would you like basically a second board meeting to think about it? So say the bid is due two weeks before the board meeting. We can you know make that say it's it's due in 45 days. That way you it will hit this meeting and then be good for the next meeting. Would that be helpful to you? >> Here's the impossible thing. Ordinarily, no. 90% of the bids, no. read our minds. >> And so somehow if you could this might cause some concerns given the personalities of the board that we have as constituted. I could see someone being concerned about this. Maybe in that situation you do. But 99% of the time where you look at the bid and say I don't think anyone's going to have a problem with this. Then I'd say don't accombod don't modify the process. But I think to have a pulse of this board to say, "Okay, I think I kind of know when this board might be concerned about a bid, and in that case, I'm going to have the foresight to give them the the latitude to have a meeting back up." >> So, best of luck guessing. >> It's like you're married all over again. >> So, can I say something? I I feel like the um addition of the expiration date is great. Um I don't think it is necessary to change the process um to accommodate um a a rare occurrence. I think that now with the expiration date we and our understanding of our our power as board members, we can um we can move forward how we want with a beer a bid that is possibly concerning to a board member or enough board members to um postpone and move to have another meeting. So that's all I have to say. I I don't want to change the process for um a rare occurrence. >> So I have a different idea that we haven't thrown around yet. One thing in this specific situation was I wasn't really aware that we were in need of green houses and I didn't understand the demand that we were seeing at the school level until I saw the bit. And so a thought that has crossed my mind and it actually came to mind when I went to the SBO lunch this last time and Brian Vzy stood up and said here is the goal of my department. I am a director and this is something that we're implementing and we're working on this year and I learned a lot from it and it got my mind thinking it would be interesting to know like to hear yearly here's what our department is working on this is the goal we're trying to achieve and maybe if Jason Skidmore had had that opportunity he might have said we see a real demand in agricultural sciences and our goal is to try to bring those to individual high schools. We can't meet the demand through JATC and then I would have at least like kind of known that was coming or um at least known that it was a need of the district ahead of time because one of the big questions that I had was well we have green houses there. Why can't we utilize the green houses that are in place more effectively? Um, and that was anyway I think it would be helpful for me not necessarily in terms of bids but to just hear what our departments are working on and what are their big what's the big fish they're trying to catch, what are their goals and um, and I think a presentation like that would be beneficial to me personally. I'm curious if others feel the same. I'd be in favor of it if the department heads had 3 to five minutes to share that information. >> How many departments are there? >> Um, under 20, more than 15. >> Okay. >> Um, we used to do this. This was part of our agenda when Bryce and I was first on the board. It did take a lot of time. It was more than 3 to 5 minutes. It was like at least an hour. It was really educational and was really good, but it did extend the length of our meeting. But >> it was an hour per department. >> Yeah. I don't know that we gave them a time, but I think if you went back and looked at some of them, they were probably 45 minutes to an hour. >> If you ask a department to present to the board, they're not going to take 3 to 5 minutes. >> And ask a department to give us a 15minute presentation. And as board members I don't >> we are free to call the department uh administrators right and ask them what do you foresee what are you hoping for for this school year or for the next two years and are are we not I mean like is that a way that we could get the information that we're interested in or is is that take too much time from the department administrators. I think departments would always love to come speak with the board because they would see that as a way to promote the work that they're doing to feel validation and also make requests because this is a very this board listens and so then you might hear and what we'd really like to do is this and so you may you know it's just it becomes requests it becomes promotion of the department which I'm in favor of I think it's wonderful. We would need to allocate an hour realistically. We could say 3 to 5 minutes. We could say 15. I know. >> I know you will. >> Let's be real. The board will have a lot of questions. It's not just their presentation. >> That's the next thing I was going to say is I don't want to say but now you don't get to ask questions. I think it would be very valuable. It's a question of whether that's how you want to spend time. >> It was really good when we did it, but it takes a lot of time. If it would reinforce or overlay with portrait of a graduate and we could tie those things together, I would find it even more valuable. Um, to bring it back to our procurement stuff, I would just like to say that I don't want to make you have to read our minds. I don't want to add a larger window that might tack on, you know, a greater cost, but I would encourage those listening and if you want to pass this on to those who have bids and projects and things that in justification letters, I would love to see detail, right, and background history of why this is coming to us. You know, I did call um um Jason Skidmore after the fact and ask him. I'm like, "Tell me about this. Why here? Why now?" You know, and what was your thought process? And you know, what was your vision? So, I would love more descriptions in their vision and why they want something and why it's going to benefit, how many students it's going to benefit, things like that so that I have a greater knowledge. And then if I have follow-up questions, I could call them directly or ask them when they come. And so that's my only request is give me details. So my only pause on that is I see the justification letter just when they go on their weekend and then I have Monday really. >> And that is it's a hard time. That's a hard timeline to >> I was writing to be lots of emails with lots of questions Sunday night and I'm just like >> hopefully they see this. >> Yeah. So, um would Dr. Godfrey, would it be in the scope of possibility to ask them to present a or to prepare a 15minute presentation on their department's current projects and goals um and then we would have to allocate time for questions into that. Of course, I understand that the presentation is the the shortest part of the conversation as we've proven tonight. Thank you for your patience. >> Yes, Bri Brian said two to three minutes and I said 1 hour. Kind of in the same spirit of jocoulity as Father McKe would say. Um really I think 15 minutes of presentation with the realistic expectation from the board that it may go over and we want we want to be able to explore the questions that come up. I I I think departments would directors would love to have the opportunity to do that. And um so if that's something the board would like to see happen, we can certainly do that. And then you just let me know, >> you know, to get everyone in a year, we would need to do it for study and some general sessions as well. Um so you let me know and we could put together a schedule and work with executive committee on that >> possibility. Sure. So in some ways I would love to have that those presentations separate than when we're having a study session or general session. So could we create one of our meetings or an additional meeting once a quarter where that's the focus bringing in departments talking to them and we focus that for that day you know and then next quarter several other of the groups and in a year we'd get everybody and just have that focus different than a study session because I just think the focuses are totally different. That's just an idea that I would propose but maybe a quarterly report from the different department meeting. >> We'll hear from each of them each quarter >> each each year. >> Each year >> by the time you got down if we did it like >> I know they're ending their year and telling us their goals from the year. >> I don't want to create an extra meeting but if we have to it would be worth it but or it replaces some of our study sessions lately. We cancelled a meeting recently. So I think we're getting through our material except for this topic quickly. But >> so much for your Christmas present, Darl. Sorry about that. >> But I don't know. Would that be a possibility? At least can we try it once? Can we have like our January, February meeting, one of those meetings is scheduled for departments to come in >> and hear all of hear a series of departments. Some of those departments are related. So having them come back to back would be really powerful, too. But >> almost worry, though that there would be like, oh, but my need's bigger than that need or more justifiable if they were here at once. >> It's just a possibility. Maybe you can explore it and think and try it once maybe and see. >> Let me ask this board members. Um, if you were asked to donate as much as 45 minutes to a presentation, do you feel like that would be time that was appropriately spent in a board meeting or would you prefer to do that on your own time individually? I feel like that's my responsibility. >> I would not want to do that on the public's time. >> I I don't know. I'm on the fence. But I do appreciate like that I do have that ability. And I have set up meetings with different departments and directors after meetings or or questions I've gotten at community councils and and I do that on my own time and that has been very beneficial for me. I'm I'm not sure about large separate meetings, but I'm persuadable. >> I like doing it on the public time because it also is a way that I can educate the public, you know, and so and again, I'm not asking for it very often, but I would like to try it once. But >> could we have the superintendent give us a highlevel overview of every department and then we could follow up with the department heads if we wanted to know more? Would that satisfy what you're looking for? >> It would not meet my need, but um I am open to that possibility. I It's just I agree with what Dr. Robinson just said that we we understand our goals and our plans better as a district when we're talking about them in a group. And when I have a private conversation, it was it was relayed today. Well, Brian had concerns, but I didn't know his concerns because I wasn't a part of that conversation. I think there's benefit to hearing things as a group. I think besides teaching and learning, I probably talked to Jason more than any other department and never once heard about a greenhouse. I'm not faulting him. The conversations just probably didn't come when he was really focused into whatever. But >> um I don't know. >> I don't know the answer. >> Talk about agriculture and what a he has shared demand we have. >> He has shared that vision about >> but I didn't link it to a warehouse. Sorry. Greenhouse words. >> A warehouse for plants. >> Okay. >> Anyways, there's a lot of things we could do. I think this is out of the ordinary and you know >> Yeah. >> So, >> I move that we table this for the another discussion. >> Okay. >> Can I I I I open with the preface. Let me close with a post face. If if I were to vote again on the greenhouse bid after having gathered all the information, talked to all the people, businesses, companies, I've talked to uh administrative staff and all the concerns that I had about possible collusion among contractors and you know, all those types of questions that I asked. If if I were to vote on it again now, I would be 100% okay with it. I wouldn't I wouldn't like the cost obviously, but I would be okay with it. I don't have any any concerns anymore. I I have several paragraphs describing it, but I'm not going to share it. I just wanted to share that post face >> and and also I thought that Suzanne made a motion and I seconded it. >> Well, it hasn't sorry opportunity to restate it. So, it isn't a motion yet. >> I and I don't know that we need a motion to move on. We can. It was just an idea through. >> Well, I think she it was to table the discussion and come back to it later. So, do we want to talk about this later? >> Okay, we have a motion on the table to return to this topic of um hearing presentations from our directors at a future date. >> A motion by Miss Wood, second by Miss Dean, >> ask for clarification. Yeah. So, I think this would just be something for the superintendent and executive committee to figure out. We all know where everyone stands on this. You guys can figure out what you want. Do Do we all know where everyone stands on this? >> I would like to make an alternate motion that we ask the superintendent to maybe come up with some ideas of how this could be presented and then we decide if we would like to be then we could decide from that point if we like department heads to present. >> I'll second because that's kind of what I was trying to say. You just said it better than me. >> Okay, we have a motion by Miss Barrow, second by Mr. I mean Dr. Robinson that we um assign Dr. Godfrey and his staff to come up with a proposal for a way that we can stay up to date with each of the department heads current projects and goals and that he present that in a future agenda. Does that kind of hit both of the motions? Um, discussion, clarification. Did I restate it poorly? >> No, I thought it was vote. >> Okay. >> All right. Hearing no discussion. All in favor of the motion, please say I. >> I. >> I. And any opposed? >> Nay. >> Okay. That motion carries 6 to one with the opposing vote um going to Mr. Dunford. Let's move on to a recommendation from our facilities committee. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for coming. >> And and please, you know, we're certainly not offended if you're uncomfortable with a bid that comes in front of you. You are not offending this. If you decline it, moves on. >> And I just want to say I really appreciate how you have been willing to be very candid whenever I've called and ask a question. So, thank you. >> You and I apologize. I should have thanked you before moving on. Seems like we're ready to go. Okay. So, a a discussion on the recommendation from facilities committee regarding Aspen Elementary School boundaries. This is something that um was assigned to facilities following our um enrollment reports. And so, we will turn the time to Mr. Barnett, the chair of facilities. >> Thank you. So, as per our new enrollment considerations document, some some of us call it our trigger point document, as was just mentioned, facilities committee was asked or tasked with reviewing one elementary school that triggered the enrollment growth trigger scenario. After reviewing it, our recommendation is to wait and re-evaluate next year with updated numbers. I will share just a few data points that uh led us to that decision or that recommendation. Aspen Elementary School is still well below their use capacity and current forecasts indicate that Aspen won't exceed their use capacity with I believe they have nine portables. I had I heard six but I looked on the document it said nine. >> Yeah, six portables is the standard. That's our comfort threshold, but yes, they do have nine portables. >> Are all of the portables being used as classrooms? >> I believe so, but we can double check that. >> So, Aspen won't exceed their use capacity until 2028. So, we have 2026 and 2027 according to current forecasts. Right now, their use capacity is,00. This year, they have 811 students. Next year they'll have 947. 2027 they'll have 1044 and 20 they'll have 1139. So even in 2028 they're still pretty close. So that was one um data point that we used. Aspen recently also had a boundary change and we try to avoid too frequent tweaking of boundaries in a community. Um number three, Aspen has not experienced rapid growth so far this year. I think uh Mike told me that only increased by one. Is that right, Mike? One student >> first. >> Since the first of the year >> net. Yep. Net one student. >> Okay. And then lastly, the current kindergarten numbers are well below sixth grade enrollment numbers. Uh which is typically an indication that enrollment growth is slowing in the coming years. So based on that on those four major points and and a few other smaller ones that that's the recommendation is that we do nothing right now as far as Aspen boundaries are re-evaluated with updated numbers next year. >> I move that we take no action at Aspen Elementary School at this time. >> Second. >> Well, I wanted to make some comments on that. So we had >> Want me to accept that motion and then have >> You can accept and I can if as long as I can speak on it. >> Yeah, of course. So we put on notice my my community that there is going to be boundary changes and we then disabled it. So they're all wondering like what's going on cuz when we looked at the Aspen as a committee, we looked at Aspen, but we didn't look at the other areas that we've identified that's losing enrollment. And so we almost need to do a little mini Moab. we talked about that in the Haramman area um which is going to trigger, you know, a shift that way. And so my only comment is we didn't really look at what we're going to do with those underenrolled schools. We just looked at Aspen and uh so I just don't know what to tell my community. Um that's my comment. Are those underenrolled schools triggering per our document? >> None of those are. None of this elementary schools in Haramman are triggering the the low end. >> They're just trending downward. They were on our watch list last year under the last year's guidelines. >> So, we have a motion by Mr. Dunford, a second by Miss Barrow, that we accept the recommendation of facilities committee and do nothing this year regarding Aspen Elementary School boundaries. So now is there discussion to that motion? >> Can I also quickly just apologize for the lateness of this recommendation coming to the board? There was a little confusion on on my part as to what the facilities committee should be doing after a decision had been made or a recommendation had been reached in committee. So I I apologize for the lateness. >> So Brian, can I ask when your recommendation is to bring this next year? Do you have a time frame in mind? >> This exact same time frame. Yeah. next year after. >> How about not December though? >> October. >> If the board if the board chooses to take action, we would need to take action long before the December meeting. >> We have until was it March was the we were talking about the time frame that would have been required. I think you might be referring to the um timeline that's outlined in policy A13 for a school um closure or >> Okay, there you go. >> That that does have a prescribed timeline that gives, you know, months of of indicators where we need to be that um there isn't a there isn't really a timeline for addressing growth issues other than the one we just went through with a boundary change type. we notice notice it in time to start talking about in early fall. >> Yeah. One one problem that the facilities committee is going to face is that we have we had one school that was on the enrollment side, the enrollment growth side and seven or eight maybe that were on the enrollment declining side. And to try to tackle eight or nine schools in a month or two months, maybe one or two facilities committee meetings is is not doable. I mean, we have we talked about four schools last Thursday on the declining side. We kind of grouped them into four different groups. Aspen was the first. These next four are the second group. And then there's two or three more in the third group. and three more in the fourth group. And if we want to give them all uh fair a fair shot at a discussion, I I don't know that we could have all of that done by the end of November. >> So when are principles determining how many staff they need for the following school year? >> February. >> Okay. So, we would ideally need to make any boundary changes before February. >> The window we've got to beat is the permit window because if there's a boundary change, we have to allow permitting based on that new boundary. So, we have typically tried to be done with boundaries by December to meet that permit window. >> That's inflexible. >> You can change it, but it's set by policy. >> It's set by the state also. So, we have a policy that aligns with that. So, if we want people to be able to take advantage of the permit window, then we need to do it so that they can still submit that. >> But this is something we could be working on all year. We don't have to wait till October number. So, one of the things I would like is can we look at not only the aspen growth but the bigger picture what I'm asking for and can we do it right now like in November or I mean in February and March and April because it's probably something that doesn't need to happen right now but if we have been working on it and then the numbers come in October it's easy to pull a trigger same with clo closing schools we don't need to hurry and rush to close it but we should be having discussions like what are our options what would we do with them and we could have them all year long. We don't have to wait till an October count. So, the Aspen one's going to come. We all know it's going to come. The question is when's the right time? And that's where I'm lost is is now a good time. Is next year a good time? But we need to look at a little larger picture than just Aspen. But >> President George, if I may, just a couple of things. First of all, all nine portables are being used as classrooms at Aspen. And secondly, just to to build on that thought, uh the purpose of this document, the trigger points, is to look at five years in the future and and at some point in the next 5 years, they're going to exceed their current use capacity. And as Mr. Barnett pointed out, that that'd be in 2028. And so even if we did decide to take action with Aspen right now, the recommended action would likely be that we start noticing in the summer and then look at it next fall. um it doesn't necessarily need to be like, okay, we need to take action right now for this spring. And and that's one of the nice things about the the forecast is that we're looking ahead far enough to just know they're on a watch list. It it doesn't have to be action that's taken right now. It's we would start looking at in the summer and the fall and study it out just like we did with the the last boundary change. So, it does give the board a lot of flexibility and a lot of time to consider it carefully. So, could I propose that we amend the motion to not take action on Aspen Elementary now, but revisit it in the spring? Is that what I'm hearing? >> Or continue to study it. >> That was the motion. We didn't say a time when we would see it again, but the motion was that we do nothing at this point and revisit it. >> Right. My understanding even in our facilities meeting was that we wouldn't look at it again until our next October first numbers had more information. That was my understanding. So I do have a bit of a concern with um the practice of using current use numbers. The board has said that they feel like six portables is an appropriate ask for a school to accommodate in terms of shared spaces. How busy is the cafeteria? Do we have specials? Can do we have capacity for everyone to get into the gym? Questions like that. And when we're just saying, "Yeah, they have nine and they're all being used, but it's fine." I don't think that is in the parameters that the board set. I'm I'm a little bit uncomfortable saying current use. I'd really prefer that we never consider architectural capacity plus more than six portables as an appropriate use. >> So, and the school next to it has zero portables and that's where all the growth is coming. It one thing we could really easily do is carve out that growth so it's going the other school. So, when as people are moving in, we're not moving them. they're just going to naturally move into where we want them to do. And that's why I think a larger picture needs to be studied and wait until October would be >> would be too long. >> The frustration that I get is it's like we always wait till October and then we say, "Oh, no, but we can't do it in the holiday." Oh, but we can do it in the spring because and before long we do nothing. And so I would really prefer that we not say let's wait until October and then start over. >> I think we need to be ready to go in October and whether or not we pull it this October next. Let's continue to study. That should be a part of our ongoing thing. Let's continue to study. Let's look at other schools. Let's look at boundaries that we could make really easy. And um you know >> I think one of the purposes of creating the trigger document was to avoid endless studying of boundaries. We're only going to study them when they trigger something. I personally I don't want to be in the business of of especially in facilities committee constantly talking about possible boundary changes. I like the idea of the trigger document because it said, "Okay, this is a time when I need to at least pay a little bit of attention." And so that's what we did with Aspen and we said, "Oh, okay. Aspen's going to be fine for another three years. I don't have to think about Aspen again as far as their boundary changes go until what we just recommended. We'll we'll take another look at them again when the trigger point document comes into play." Yeah. I I personally don't like the idea of let's just have an ongoing study of various areas of the district that that might need a boundary change, but they don't trigger any of our trigger document. But again, you're saying it's okay for people to move into these this area, get accustomed to Aspen, then we're going to rip you out where if we were study it now, we could carve it so those homes that are being built could naturally go where they're going to end up anyways. That's what I'm saying is we're looking at a really a small piece and we need to step back and look at a larger piece. >> So, Brian, I just want to say I really appreciate how the facilities committee has studied the the schools um that have reached the different points on our on our documents that we agreed on. And I feel like this is what our committees are for to have the the discussions and bring a recommendation. And I hope that other board members who um would like the facilities committee to study um possible boundary changes will feel free and confident to bring those to the facilities committee. Um, but I I am really in favor of um going along with the facilities committee's recommendation here. Um, I really appreciate, like I said, the work that has been done in committee. So, thank you for that. >> Welcome. >> Brian, can you clarify for me? Are are you is the facilities committee looking at enacting a boundary change in 2 years or 3 years? >> We're not looking at doing anything except re-evaluating. >> Okay, let me rephrase my question. With the enrollment projections that you saw, you would recommend that we may need to take action before 2829. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then next October, we'll know whether that claim is true or whether it's now 2029. And then the next year, we'll know, oh, maybe we can push this off forever. >> And the next year, we could make decisions. We're not under the gun to make decisions for the 2728 year. >> Okay. >> I want it clearly on the record. I've asked many many times for our board to study the larger picture and so I don't know how to do that. I'm on the committee. >> You make a motion. >> I've I'll make a motion that we study the larger picture of the Heramman area. >> I'll make a >> not a substitute motion. I'm just trying to think how we can you can you hold that till we vote on this motion? >> I >> is that okay >> for me to ask? I don't >> So can I withdraw what I suggested as an amended motion of to revisit this in the spring >> now that I understand more clearly the timeline. I feel less pressed to revisit this sooner. >> Dr. Godfrey, it looked like you had a comment. >> Not making the argument in either direction what Mr. Barnett described was the intent of the process that was put in place. Now, if that's not the process that board members want to continue with, then that's a separate issue. But the the idea was that the trigger document says, "Oh, we ought to look at this. Are we good?" Yeah, I think we're good. It comes back from the committee in the way it just did. And then not only does the board not spend the time on it, but then the the the community isn't every year wondering are are we about to have a a change. It just makes sure that we don't forget about it, but that we're also not constantly um starting a process and reviewing. I'm not saying that's the way it ought to be. I'm saying that's the way that it was designed and it's being implemented the way that I understand that it was designed. If the board wants to go a different direction, then that's then that's something else. But that's this is the way it was des discussed and described and and um intended. I I believe >> I would like to say that if I've learned anything from our boundary discussions and things we've been doing is that boundaries are messy. And in our last facilities meeting, as we discussed a certain group of schools, I requested information about surrounding schools so I could see a bigger picture. And so that's how I'm going to approach it. That if we have one school come up like Aspen and if we revisit next year and we see more of a pressing issue, I personally do want a bigger picture. So that's when I would bring it in and request in our facilities meeting say hey please bring me information on these schools and what are some options so that we can have a bigger picture because it is messy and it is hard to make one change without affecting a greater community. So I would like to take a bigger picture and support your desires in the Haramman area Darl >> and I would say I haven't stopped thinking about Aspen and its neighboring schools. They're always on my mind and I'm always thinking about what are the neighboring schools looking like. So, I'm never not gonna look at the bigger picture. I'm just saying we have we have a school with nine portables and the school next to it has zero and all the growth is in the school that has the nine and drawn a line. So when people move in, they're going to the school they're going to end up with is going to be a lot less disruptive to families um than waiting till they all move in, get accustomed to ASP and then we force them away. So that's why I want a larger picture. I don't care when that comes. If we don't want to do it in the spring, we don't want to wait till the next year's enrollment. We will eventually have to do it. The question is when's the appropriate time? And I don't know if I can drive that or not. So I I mean I want to make that I want to make that study at least but there's not an urgency for me but I just it's a reality it will happen. So do we do it now? Do we do it later? But do we have a motion on the table? We got to just vote on that and then >> I don't know if we need to make >> I feel like our discussion is going away from the motion right now. So, we have a motion on the table and I'm going to rephrase it and I apologize, Miss Large, because probably differently than I originally phrased it, but a motion on the table, >> president. >> Oh, perfect. I mean, I have no apology. Just kidding. So, um, a motion on the table that we accept the recommendation of facilities committee to, um, make no changes at this point and revisit in after we receive the October account or counts. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All in favor of that motion, please say I. >> I. >> I. And any opposed? >> Nay. >> Okay. That motion carries 6 to one. Opposing vote was Dr. Robinson. >> Can I make a motion then that we study the larger picture in the Herman area? >> I believe that we made that decision already, but we haven't made a plan for how to do it. So, yes, you can make a motion that we >> make that motion. >> Do we have a second? >> You state Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Will you say what your motion is? So my motion is that we study a larger picture of the south uh daybreak Haramman Olympia Hills area and and and making some boundary changes that would be least least disruptive. >> Who's we facilities probably bring it? I mean facility because >> you're proposing that facilities committee takes a >> I'm okay to let student services because I think that student services when they were bringing them to them they think through it a lot deeper than a facilities committee can but >> and are you speaking specifically about elementaryaries or do you want all levels? >> I mean elementary but at the same time if we need to realign a feeder system or something we could discover that along the way. >> Okay. >> And no timets to it. you we can decide when student services and the facility wants to act on it, but I just want it to be something we're working on and not waiting till October and say what are we going to do. Okay, >> so we have a motion by Dr. Robinson, a second by Miss Dean, please stop me if I rephrase this poorly. That we study the South Daybreak, Haramman, and Olympia Hills elementary schools um to look at a bigger picture for potential >> um enrollment alignment >> or long-term boundaries. >> Long-term boundaries. Okay, let me restate that again. So we the motion is that we study the South Daybreak Herman and Olympia Hills elementary schools um to consider long-term enrollment needs. >> Al is that been that's been we made I made it right in Lisa second. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was me restating it. I just needed two. >> I agree with your restatement. >> Okay. So any discussion? >> My my biggest concern with that is that the majority of it will be based on hypothetical numbers. And so yeah, we can go through the process what if this, what if this, what if this, but it doesn't ever come down to something that we can make a decision about because everything is hypothetical. I remember uh John mentioned that we don't build an elementary school in a new development anticipating that it will be filled eventually because things might change and we might have just wasted all that money in building a new school. It's that same principle. We might have some forecasting numbers that come in and say, "Yeah, we think this area is going to grow out, but we're going to wait until it does and then we'll build an elementary school." And and I think it's that same principle with boundary changes. We think this is going to happen, but we don't I I don't want to commit to any boundary changes until there's a lot more evidence to support that. And so that's why >> but we recently said we wanted to be pro proactive. So I have kids who live ac really like within a block or two from Butterfield Canyon that are being busted to Oakleaf. We know that they there's room in their school. We know that we said as a facilities committee we want to reduce busing. We have kids that live across the street from Black Ridge Elementary that are bus to Haramman, but the school has the room to accommodate them now. And so all I'm saying is this would reduce cost if we just studied it. I'm just asking for a study. I don't even know if it even come to the board, but a study of a long-term picture of that area. >> So I see I see merit to that. I guess I'm not following how doing it before October will make a sooner impact because even if we were to study it starting January, it would be too late to affectuate next year. >> No, for sure. So if we study it in October with the other, would that bene give the benefit that you're looking for? >> I think it's what Nikki says. It comes in October and then we don't want to do it during the holiday. Well, maybe we'll do it in the spring and we just kind of never do it. So like we told these people we'd study it last spring and now we're here in the fall and all. >> Can I interrupt for just one second? I'm just looking at the clock right now. We have a business meeting that should have started 2 minutes ago. Can we pick up this conversation later? Is that clock wrong? Yes, that clock's a little fast, but it is 6:29. >> You want to stop it in the middle of a motion? A motion that hasn't been voted on. >> Okay. I It just seems like there's more discussion that people want to have. Are we ready to vote? >> We could table the motion if >> I move that we call the question. >> Okay. >> Do people need more time? >> I >> We have a call to question >> and nobody has to second it. If like >> that that doesn't need a second, does it? Call to question. Call to question >> if it stops the action. But it sounds like we're going to take action no matter what. >> So, >> if it needs a second, I'll second it. >> Okay. We have a motion and a second for call to question. I just I I would love to hear are do board members need more discussion? Are you ready to vote? >> I'm ready to vote. I was just going to make a comment, but I'm ready to vote. Okay. So, all in favor of Do we have to vote to call the question? No. >> Okay. Um, all in favor of the motion to study the South Daybreak Herman Olympia Hills Elementary Schools for long-term enrollment solutions, please say I. >> I. And any opposed, please say nay. >> Was there a there wasn't a time frame on that? >> I did not add a time frame to the original. I thought you said before October, but you're right. You didn't state that. >> I didn't say it. >> We We indicated that we'd have studied before October. >> I will say I on on the motion as it was stated. >> Okay. I I will say I on the motion as stated also. >> Okay. So, that motion carries unanimously. >> I Sorry, I said nay. >> Oh, you did. I was clarifying. I was Well, I didn't say nay. I was wondering if there was a time frame. >> Oh, I apologize. Okay. The motion carries uh six to one with a opposing vote from Mr. Barnett. Okay. So that assignment let's let's return and make that assignment after. >> Yeah, I need some clarity on that. >> Yeah, me too. Okay. Um we'll go ahead and resume this discussion following our uh business meeting. Welcome to the Jordan School District Board of Education meeting. Today is Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. Um we're excited to have you with us, whether you're joining virtually or in person. and we are excited to celebrate this season with you. So, happy holidays. This will be our last board meeting before the break. Uh we are going to go ahead and get started this evening by welcoming our Kings Peak students who are going to do our opening for us. We'll go ahead and start with Riley Sadler, who's the student body secretary, London Gomez, the student body vice president, and Lily Rutel, sorry if I'm bad at reading names, a student council member from um King's Peak to give us our pledge of allegiance. Is it on now? There we go. Okay. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. >> We will now have our reverence from Riley Sadler. Hello there. My name is Riley Sadler. I am one of Kings Peaks student council secretaries. And today I will be sharing with you a quote. As Coen Powell once said, "A dream doesn't become reality through magic. It takes sweat, determination, and hard work." I believe that this quote ties in very well to our school's fundamentals. I've seen many teachers and students strive to work persistently for the good of our school. I've seen them devote themselves to making the dream of an online school in Utah become a reality. Thank you. >> Good job. All right, we will now move on to celebrating schools with Kai McKay. Hello board members, Superintendent Godfrey and Business Administrator Larson. Thank you so much for letting me speak today. I am Kai Miyak. I'm the SPO president at Kingspak High School and I've been here since my freshman year and now as a senior. Um I want to share with you just how much our school has grown and some of our awesome changes that we've made. Uh one of our biggest changes um is our new building. Uh it's so great to finally have a dedicated place we can call home. Uh and the building is also in a great location. Um it's super accessible and it has made a huge difference um in how uh we run our events and our activities as there's just so much more space uh and flexibility now. Uh and I also know that many families are really happy with this change and we're all super grateful for it. And speaking of our events, uh we have so many at King's Peak. Um even though we're an online school, we've managed to create uh some awesome opportunities to connect with each other. Uh, for example, our back to school barbecue uh which it's an opening social with all three of the schools at the Jordan virtual learning academy and it's a fun day where uh all the JVLA family and friends can come out and enjoy some outdoor activities and we have great food uh and it's just an awesome way to kick off the year. We also have our uh trunk or treat with JBLA. And so all of the teachers, they get to decorate their cars with fun themes and people can go around and trunk or treat. And a specialty here at King's Peak, which we always look forward to every year, is our haunted bus. We take a school bus and we fill it up with a whole bunch of fun Halloween decorations. People get to come through. Um and it's al also a fun time with everybody uh at the JVLA. Um, we also have our movie night every year as well. Uh, as a school we get to pick our, uh, movie that we watch and that's always a great time. And these are just some examples of the many field trips and, uh, events or sorry, just some of the events that we have at Kingspeak. We have a lot of field trips as well too. And we actually had one yesterday which we went to the Utah Olympic Oval to go ice skating. And it was a fun opportunity for people to uh, come out and ice skate for the first time. um or if they've ice skated before, they get to do that with uh King's Peak. Uh along with that too, we have a lot of regularly scheduled uh activities at the school. Uh for example, all of the art teachers, they come together and we have art labs uh every week. And this also allows students to come and try new different art forms. Uh and once they are done with their completed art, we put them up all throughout the school for everybody to see. Uh so those are just some of the fun activities uh that we like to do. And uh it gets a lot of people uh to come out and meet with each other and experience a lot of new fun things uh with the school. And uh one of our biggest achievements is how we've also used technology to stay social and connect with others. Uh we have many virtual events such as our spirit week, our talent show, and also our winter Padlet. And those all use um this one software called Padlet. And it's essentially a huge collaboration board. Uh people can post a lot of different things such as text and photos and it just allows us to get to know each other in unique ways. Um especially with our talent show, we see so many uh different fun submissions that we wouldn't have otherwise been able to in a uh normal in-person school. Um and that's something that we're really proud of. And uh it just really helps with the community here at Kings Peak and JVA al together. And we're always brainstorming uh new ideas for events that'll get people excited. And um even though we're a virtual high school, uh we've kept a very strong social connection um with every new event that we add. And we see more and more people participate uh in these events and get to really enjoy what Kings Peak has to offer. Uh we balance both virtual and inerson events really well. Um and that's something that we're really proud of. Um as we get to know each other in so many different ways. Uh another one um is our spirit week. We combine both the Padlet. people get to talk a little bit about themselves, share photos such as our uh favorite pets. That's a very fun one that everybody likes to uh post to. And then in the middle or at the end of the week, you can come in for a spirit week with uh a day of games and fun snacks as well, too. And I also think that most uh students would also agree that our teachers and staff here at Kings Peak are amazing. They truly care about us and they're always looking out for our success and they make as much as an effort to communicate with us as an in-person school and uh it's something really personalized for each student and because of this we get to know uh our teachers really well and it makes learning just even better and uh everyone at Kings Peak and JBL gets that special connection with each other um since there just so much opportunities for the students choosing online as an option. Uh and as we've had lots of new students join us. Uh we've had a lot of expansion at our school too. We've gotten our new building as I mentioned uh earlier, more staff, more programs and courses offered such as with DECA and NHS and overall a better integration with the entirety of Jordan Virtual Learning Academy. And uh since the start of our uh high school and the rise of online schooling, uh we've really improved as we've added more structure while still keeping the flexibility of uh that online learning has to offer. And our courses keep getting better with more technology and new processes. Um and it just makes it a very great experience. And we can choose to go at our own pace, too, which I think a lot of students also really enjoy. And I'd say that this success, it comes from the people at King's Peak. uh students and teachers at Kings Peak uh just really care a lot about learning. Uh and I think that's what makes it special at Kings Peak and kids are choosing to come to Kings Peak um because of how many choices and opportunities there are as an online school. Uh we have kids who come to Kings Peak either as part-time students or online students and they have that balance. Um and it just provides kids with a different way of choosing to go to school. um since we still also want the same other options as kids do with this nice option of being online. And so in conclusion, we are super excited about the future at Kings Peak. And we are thankful that we have this option. Uh and we're also very thankful that you've allowed Kings Peak uh to grow and become what it is today. And we appreciate all of the hard work and dedication to this program. Thanks to everybody at Kingspak High School, the Jordan Virtual Learning Academy, and also the Jordan School District. Thank you for making such an amazing school like this possible. And thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much, Kai. And I apologize for my misprononunciation of Niyaki. I read too fast. Okay. Um, I just love to take a minute and recognize all those of you who are here supporting a Kings Peak student, whether you're an employee or a parent. Would you please stand up and let us give you a round of applause for some pretty great students. We can clearly see that. All right. And then we would love if you are here as a student from Kings Peak, will you stand? We'll give you a round as well. And then before you sit down, we would love to have the opportunity to shake this student's hands. So if you would join us at the DAS, just come up that direction and come on down. And we do have a pin to thank you for your time being here tonight. One of our favorite parts of our board meetings is being able to hear about the great things that are happening at our schools and to interact with our students. We understand that your time is valuable and we want you to know we are not offended if you need to slip out of the meeting. So feel free to stay if you'd like, but don't feel obligated. Let's move now to our resolutions of appreciation with Miss Dean. Whereas dedicated service to Jordan School District was faithfully and effectively performed, whereas they consistently and conscientiously executed their responsibilities with integrity, honesty, and loyalty. Be it therefore resolved that the Jordan School District Board of Education and District Administration declare appreciation for the outstanding service that was performed in the cause of public education and hereby express our sorrow at the death of these valued friends. Douglas Claire Gardner, painter. Stuart Clawson Hwlet, teacher and substitute. Ronald Glenn Warlick, bus driver. Thank you. Okay, let's move into board member recognitions. Does anyone have something to share? I of course I do. Um, so just I I was able to um attend a STEM night at Columbia Elementary and while um students and parents were in an in an assembly, um I was able to speak with some of the teachers and asked them about how it had been implementing um the recently implemented um math and reading curriculums or curricula. And I really appreciate their honesty when talking to me about their challenges and successes and innovations. And I can see that these teachers are creative problem solvers and they are setting that example for their students. And I want to thank all of our teachers for creating opportunities for all learners with their highquality instruction. There is a lot of work that is required for um in implementing new curriculum and I just want to thank our teachers for their example of being resilient lifelong learners as they do this work. Um, I also want to thank the state legislators that came to our um, legislative breakfast. It was it was um, really helpful and interesting to hear their thoughts and um, on upcoming legislation and uh, legislation from the recent past. And I appreciate how they listen to um board members and our superintendent and associate superintendent and business administrator. And I also would like to thank the administrative assistants that work hard to put together these kind of events for the board. Um anyway, so thank you. Uh I am a parent of a special education student in the district. Um he has some intellectual disabilities and you will often hear me recognize the great strides we are making in the Jordan school district with unified sports. Of note, recently two of our elementary schools, the first two in the state of Utah were awarded the honor of being a national unified champion school by Special Olympics North America. This was Daybreak Elementary and Monav Vista. And I just want to recognize um not only the district leadership, including our superintendent and director Brian Vzy. I'd like to also recognize those administrators, volunteers, staff at these two schools who have really championed this effort. It's a great honor to receive I'll just add one quick one. Um, kind of piggybacking on the comments to our legislators. I have had the opportunity to interact with several legislators in different um settings, all who are interested in public education and in making sure that our students have opportunities. I just want to express gratitude for the efforts that they have in balancing a lot of needs and perspectives across our state and the support that they give to our district. Um it is I think the most important job that they have to ensure that our citizens are well educated and have appropriate places to receive that education equitably. And um I just appreciate those efforts. Any others that I missed? Wanted to >> and and I I know I already said something, but if anybody went to any high school's musical theater production, and a couple of them were high school musical. I'm I I only was able to go to one and it was amazing. I love seeing students get out there and put forth an effort and I know that there is so much work that goes into that and so much time. So anyway, I I just really appreciate all the people that make that happen. I feel like it enriches the community. It enriches the school community. Anyway, it just gives people an opportunity to perform and it gives people an opportunity to go and see something amazing. So, thanks. >> Thank you. Let's now move on to our superintendence recognitions. >> I would just like to echo what uh the students from Kings Peak pointed out. Um, I appreciate the board's support of our virtual learning uh schools, our our academy. These are not programs. These are three schools within the virtual learning academy. That's one thing that sets them apart. The other thing that sets them apart is the studenttoteer ratio, which is very close to the same ratio in a brick-and-mortar school. When people think online programs, they think about uh just lots of students assigned to one teacher, but there really is a a education really is personalized. And um I appreciate the board's ongoing investment in making sure that as you heard, they have a a place of their own now and they're m they're putting it to great use. It's one example of the wide range of options that this board has made possible to meet the needs of students. I've always felt that with 56,000 students, we ought to offer a little bit of everything. Uh you shouldn't have to go anywhere else to get what you're looking for. And uh we have there's always more we can do in that area. um making more courses available virtually, but uh as you can see, we've made tremendous progress and this is really impacting student lives in a very positive way. So, thank you for supporting that. >> Thank you. And I'll just throw that thanks right back. Thank you for your innovation and vision, Dr. Godfrey. We're very lucky to have you at the head of our district. Okay, let's move now uh into our public comment section of the meeting. Uh we encourage public engagement. We value the input from our residents, students, and employees. Just a few reminders, the board will not take public comment on personnel issues or statements regarding the character, professional competence, or physical or mental health of an individual during board meetings. If you have concerns of that nature, please feel free to email board members individually. Uh those wishing to have comments heard by the board are asked to list the topic they intend to discuss as well as their name on the signup document or email. Um we would ask that you keep your comments age appropriate as we're broadcasting and um there could be all sorts of ages listening. The board does not discuss issues that are not on the meeting's agenda. The board may ask staff to follow up on issues raised or may address them at a future meeting. So, just a reminder that silence by the board on an issue does not indicate support or opposition to the message given. Uh so, at this time, we're going to take public comment on the items not listed on the agenda. In-person comments will be heard first and then we'll follow that by comments received electronically. And just a reminder that both in person and emailed comments, can you please keep to a maximum of three minutes and be respectful of that time. So when you're called to the podium, make sure that you state your name before giving your comment. All right, with that, we'll first hear from Tyler Larson and then we'll be followed by Hadley Hawk. I'm sorry if I ruined your last name, but Tyler, last call for Tyler. Okay, Hadley, we'll invite you up. Oh, no Hadley either. Okay. Is there anyone else here who had intended to speak but missed the signup sheet? Okay, this is just going to be a fast night. Mr. Larson, do we have any online comments? Great. Zach Ashino to whom it may concern. I am reaching out as a parent of a first grade student uh Lucas Ashino at Aspen Elementary to help show support/interest for the first implementation of the dual language program. In 2024, we were new to the school district and were unaware of the efforts being made to establish a DLI program. While the while the DLI may not be an opportunity for Lucas, I hope that this opportunity won't be missed for other cohorts of students in the future. If there is anything I can do to help with these efforts, please let me know. And thank you for showing up every day to help educate our children. Best Zakashino. Marky Nakin. Dear members of the school board, my name is Marky Nokin and I am a parent in the district with a daughter who will be entering first grade next year at Aspen Elementary. I am writing to express my strong interest in seeing a Spanish dual immersion program implemented at Aspen. As a parent, I am always looking for opportunities that will broaden my children's academic, cultural, and future professional experiences. Dual immersion provides students with a gift of bilingualism, an ability that research consistently shows enhances cognitive development, increases problem-solving skills, and opens doors socially and academically. More than that, it helps children develop a deeper appreciation for cultures beyond their own, something I believe is invaluable in today's world. Our family along with many others in our community would be thrilled to see a Spanish dual immersion option available locally. Not only would this strengthen our school, but it would also support families who want to invest early in multilingual education without leaving the school community we love. Thank you for your time and for the thoughtful work you put into making decisions for our students. I deeply appreciate your consideration of this request and your dedication to providing meaningful learning opportunities for all children in the district. Warmly Marquy Kn. >> Thank you. Okay, let's now move into the business portion. So, I will now accept a motion to approve the consent agenda item. I move that we accept the consent agenda items A. Oh, okay. A. All right. We have a motion by Miss Dean, a second by Dr. Robinson that we approve consent agenda item A, board minutes. Is there any discussion? Okay. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> I. >> And any opposed, please say nay. Right. That motion carries unanimously. I'll now accept a motion to accept the consent agenda. >> I move that we accept the consent agenda items A through D. We have a motion by Miss Dean, second by Miss Barrow that we accept consent agenda items A through D. Any discussion question, I guess, why why do we split it out into those two things? motion the agenda items and the con the consent agenda items and then the consent agenda. Can we just change it so that we vote on all of them at once? What's what's the purpose of splitting those out like that? >> Meaning what between the approve the accept and the approve >> four and five. >> Does Mr. Larson have something to say about this? Will you oh uh present years ago um it was under one and it was decided by the board at that time to split them out because there are certain things that the board is officially receiving and there's other things the board is approving. And so the board at that time wanted to split those into two different categories to recognize uh that we officially received something and not necessarily approving it and yet we are required to approve other things. And so that's why they separated those out. >> What's the the category then? What are we receiving and what are we approving? >> The accept we're accepting these. >> We're accepting it. We're rece we're receiving >> we approve the minutes. So like if we look through the minutes and they >> thank you >> and we're like yeah that's what happened then we can approve it. >> Yeah. >> Does does the accept imply an approval then? >> No. >> Saying okay >> acknowledging that we received them. >> Yeah. They've been accepted by the board. They've been received. They're good. Um, I don't know that you could say they've been approved by the board. And I think that was the intent of that prior board was to say, "Well, wait a minute. That doesn't mean we approved it. We just accepted it." >> Okay, that that makes sense. One's we're in favor of it. We're approving it. And one is just an acknowledgement of receipt. >> Yes. >> All learning. Okay. Um, any more discussion hearing? None. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And any oppose, please say nay. >> Okay. Um, we'll now move into bids. >> I move that we approve the bid for nutrition services fresh baked pizza. I will second. Okay, we have a motion by Miss Dean, a second by Miss Barrow that we approve the bid for nutrition services fresh baked pizza. Is there discussion? I actually have a question on this one. I don't know who to direct to. Oh, yep. Katie's here. You just blended right in. Um, so I know that our nutrition services pride themselves on homemade foods and so I'm curious why pizza is a different category. >> That is a very good question. Um, and actually one of the other board members reached out to me as well. Um, so we have been doing like fresh baked or vended pizza in Jordan for ever since I've been here like 17 years. And from what in talking to the coordinators and people in my office, it's just such a huge student participation and you know really uh pizza dough pizza crust is kind of a specialized thing with different types of ovens and so doing a frozen option isn't quite like having it fresh baked and delivered to the schools. So it's just been that way for a long time and the kids have loved it. Our participation is higher on those days. Um, and so it's just longstanding. And when the contract came up, all our labor is also based off of that, too. Like in our elementary schools, our part-time people don't come in on the days that we have pizza, just the contract people. So there's less labor because we are bringing in like a ready to eat product that's heat, you know, like ready to eat, right? Then so we, you know, as long as the students is still a very student favorite, um we we chose to move forward with a bid again for fresh pizza. And um going forward in the future, I think if something ever changes, like the cost becomes prohibitive or it the students preferences change greatly to pizza, then we would definitely look at doing something on our own. And some of the um coordinators in our office who have been with the district for a long time said there was a point when schools could choose if they were going to make their own pizzas. And at that point they brought in the crust pre-made and like topped it and baked it off and those schools would have different labor than the other schools till eventually they just moved everyone to one one company and one fresh baked pizza. So that's a really good question though. I'm like the kids love it and we've done it forever. So any other Yeah. Thank you. Just honestly curiosity. No, definitely. I have kids in my house though. >> I had a son that would have home lunch every day except for pizza day. >> I I don't know. Pizza is, you know, it's been one of the top slots for all time. But yeah, any other discussion on this item? Okay. Hearing none. All those in favor of the bid, please say I. >> I. >> I. >> And any opposed, please say nay. Right. That motion carries unanimously. >> I move that we approve the bid for transportation school buses. >> I'll second it. >> Let's say what it is. This is important. So we have >> we're adding air conditioning to all those buses that don't have >> I thought this one was the the five >> seven buses will mount >> this is seven buses. >> So we have a motion by Miss Dean a second by Mi Dr. Robinson. Is that right? That we approve the bid for transportation school buses. And yeah, I think we should highlight it is for one new special education school bus, two general education transit style buses, and four general education conventional style buses that would be added to the existing fleet. Okay, any discussion? >> Are they adding them to the fleet? These look like replacements. >> Well, >> I just wanted Paul to get up, actually. >> And I also have a I have a question, too. >> That time of year. Thank you very much. Uh yeah, they would be added to the fleet. >> So these are additional buses over and above >> correct. Yeah. And and the question was raised as well, how many do we retire on an average about five per year. Um and then I did want to clarify too because in my justification letter I had written about the growth of the district and I I feel like I need to clarify that a little bit not in terms of enrollment growth but we as a district grow geographically, right? And and so a couple of examples I've used is that for example, Kari Sue Hamilton um this year increased 40 students and 12 of them exited the school for a net gain of about 28 kids. That ultimately results in additional routes which require additional buses. Um, the other example I would use is that, uh, if we have, for example, a development, an Ivory Homes development, Olympia would be a great example of that. We're not necessarily increasing our enrollment numbers, but if those developments are located in an area that is bus eligible, so essentially 1.5 miles away from an elementary school, 2.0 miles away from a middle or a high school, that will also generate the need for additional buses. So, >> so in the addendum description, it says these school buses will replace older buses as they reach the end of their life. So, is that >> correct? Just I'm just wondering about the total fleet. It adds to the fleet, but we may drop some off. >> Correct. Yeah. Yes. >> And so, I'm curious about the difference between the transit style buses and the conventional style buses. I mean, I saw that it was rearwheel versus front-wheel drive, but I'm curious about and it's just my own curiosity. It's not going to affect how I vote on this bill. >> No, that's a great question. And, you know, before I assume this role of transportation director, I had no idea what the difference is, but yeah, the the conventional style buses are front engine buses, so they're the ones that have a hood on it. The rear engine buses are the transit style. Um the the transit style really work better in in areas in our district that um are more hilly for example. Um it pushes a bus better at times. So in parts of West uh Haramman or West Jordan or Daybreak area where there's a little bit more terrain that's hilly th those buses seem to perform really well especially during inclement weather. The conventional style buses run great um especially on flat terrain. Um the and and the transit style buses typically do have a few additional seats. We maximize our student um wrership at the elementary level at about 72 to 74 um and at the middle and high schools about 52 to 54. And so the the additional buses, so you you can see that um well, I don't know if you actually see the numbers, but the conventional conventional style buses do seat about 78 kids and the transit style buses seat 83. So a little bit more. Um but again, those are kind of our ridership numbers that we go by. that that typically is the difference between the transit and the conventional is just the ability to to work up through particularly in Haramman uh in those areas that that there's a the terrain requires us to have a little bit more push. >> Thanks. >> You're welcome. >> I'm a little curious on the special education buses. You specifically mentioned students at Karis Sue Hamilton. Why do we buy full-size buses if we're using them specifically for smaller amounts of riders? >> That's a good question. We do have both style of buses and we do use the smaller buses primarily the 30 35 ft buses to get into smaller areas, but this year our buses, our full-size buses into Kari Sue are very full. We have anywhere from two to four wheelchairs per bus into those. And so it does enable us to have greater space and to to really transport additional students. Great question. >> Well, there was a time when there were fewer manufacturers of buses. Has that changed? Are we seeing more people making school buses? That was a concern several years ago. >> Has that changed? >> Not necessarily. A lot of the bus manufacturers got into the electric school bus. So you had guys like Leon. A lot of those companies are not are not being successful right now. The climate for electric school buses is not as high as it was a few years ago. Um but the big three truly are the international, your Thomas, and your and your Bluebird. And and those three are all on state contract with their vendors. questions. Okay, thank you for >> always being so quick to answer. >> Um, all right. All those in favor of approving the bid for school buses, please say I. >> I. >> I. >> And any opposed. Right. That motion passes unanimously. We'll now move into our special business items. Um, first we have our budget hearing. I will turn it over to Mr. Dunford and Mr. Larson to introduce that. >> So, every year when you approve a budget, things change over time. And a number of years ago, this board decided they were we were approving all of these changes once when the year ended. And we came to the conclusion that what we'd like to do is spread out those approvals over time. So, we voted to have a December budget hearing, an April budget hearing, and then the June budget hearing. And the reason we chose that spacing is after the June hearing, things get lumped into large categories. We don't fully know revenue sources and final amounts. And so we decided we would have a December budget hearing so that we could kind of make all of those adjustments that weren't in in time to put it in June, but in a timely manner while we're still thinking about the budget. So that's what the December budget hearing primarily is. we finalized certain numbers. Um, you are going to see some discrepancies which Mr. Larson will explain, but December is mostly about making tweaks to the June budget to kind of put everything where it's supposed to be. So, Mr. Larson, >> yeah, thank you. Um, appreciate this opportunity. So, uh, board members, you have on board docs the, uh, proposed amendment to the budget, and there's a column here for the original budget as well as the amended, and then the math of the difference is off on the far right for the change. So, what I'm going to do is highlight the changes that have occurred and what those are for. The the first one is in the state revenue sources um, line row. uh we're indicating an additional $4.9 million of state revenue. That isn't necessarily additional uh monies the state has allocated to us. What it is is it's actually carryover of funds that were not used last year in state funds. So the state gives us uh unrestricted monies, but they also give us a lot of restricted monies. And those restricted monies are budgeted to be spent in that year. But if they are not, they can be carried over to the following year and be spent then. So they're originally budgeted in the original year because they are authorized to be spent, but if not, then we carry them over. Those grants making up that 4.9 million is mostly made up of TSSA of 3.5 million, land trust of 400,000 and advanced placement and concurrent enrollment making up the remaining million. So those are examples of that. There'll be others occurring later, but this is the time of year where we're catching up, as Mr. Dunford uh mentioned on some of these things that uh um over the rollover from the audit that we're now implementing those carryovers into the into the budget. Okay. The next line item as we get into expenditures uh the very large difference here is in the instruction uh function. The instruction function is uh shows a decrease of 32.3 million but most of that is made up of one change and that is a decrease of 41.2 million in that um change that we talk about in June of every year of the unassigned balance that's just simply moved up into instruction. We're just simply moving that back down now. So that's all that is doing and that's a >> just remind you that there is a law that requires us to have a zero balance in unassigned and so in June we move it somewhere and then in December we move it back. >> Yeah, >> it's kind of a silly law but we do this to comply every year. We're not gaining 30 $42 million. >> Right. So the other changes that are occurring in the instruction function are going to be some carryovers and adjustments for the October 1 enrollment counts. Now that we have actual enrollment counts for the school year, the allocations are going to change based on those. Back in June when the original budget was passed, it was uh based on projected enrollments. Now we have the actuals of the October 1 count. So we can do those. So the same carryovers I talked about on the state revenue uh line are now coming into play down here in the expenditure because the grant carried over with the revenues. So we're also going to allocate those same expenditures over. So TSSA, land trust, advanced placement and concurrent enrollment. Other carryovers though in this area include uh district allocated funds such as what we call inloo funds for schools of 2.5 million and then there's uh school allocations of supplies, textbook and technology funds that are being carried over to about 1.4 million. That's on that instruction function row. The other two changes, they're pretty minor but they're They're similar. They are uh carryovers and the October one enrollment adjustments of uh support services for instructional staff of two uh 260,000. That is the school carryover for the media budget. And then under school administration shows an increase of 200,000. That is simply the postage budget being rolled over from last year to this year. And the changes for October one, >> the key I would point out is if you look at the fund balance beginning and end, that doesn't change. So we're not adding or losing any of our funds. We're just reallocating. So no net increase, no net loss. Okay. >> Can I ask a Can I ask a question about reallocating back and forth? Is that created by a state law or is that a federal law? Is that something that we as a government committee can go and ask for some changes or is this unique to our district or >> you're talking about that instruction just moving it from bucket to bucket? It's actually an interpretation of a law um that it's a very old one and it's uh just the way we've interpreted it forever is that well we'll we'll go ahead and make that zero and put it up here into instruction. We're pretty transparent about what we're doing. Um, my guess is there would not be support to change that law because what it forces us to do is have a conversation at least twice a year about it. And without that law, that conversation would not uh necessarily occur. And I think I think part of the legislator's purpose in this is to have those type of conversations. Why is this occurring? What what is this balance for? Is there is there extra funds? Can we utilize extra funds? Uh, and all of that can take place because of these type of conversations. >> Great answer. >> And this might be the appropriate time to remind the board that uh a the board has set parameters on its balances. And so we monitor that constantly and the finance committee looks at that uh most in earnest from uh January through June as we get uh updates on our our um actual numbers for the year. Um, but that number that's going back and forth is included in all of those analysis. >> So, I move that we approve the amended budget as proposed. Before we take that motion, can I just make sure there's no one signed up to speak on this agenda item, but I wanted to double check that there's not someone here who was hoping to speak about this item that missed the signup. Okay. All right. A motion. >> I move that we approve the amended budget as presented. >> I second. >> We have a motion by Mr. Dunford, a second by Miss Dean that we approve the amendments to the budget for the 2526 fiscal year. Any further discussion to that motion? All right, hearing none. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And any opposed, please say nay. That motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Oh, sorry. >> Can I just say uh special thanks to Mr. Jason Mott who is here with us tonight. He's the one that prepares all this I just simply presented I read it but the actual work the actual brains behind this is that man >> thank you we are so grateful that's it's a huge effort and we um are grateful to have good brains on these items. Okay, moving along in our agenda. This is one of the funnest agenda items of the year in my opinion when we get to hear from Dr. Godfrey. Um his annual superintendence report hear all of the amazing things that are happening in our district. >> All right. Thank you very much. It's fun for me, too. It's a kind of the most wonderful time of the year where we get to go through what happened in the last school year. And this is a uh unique year for this because we have new uh new ends policies for the coming year that were put in place a year ago and we have the old policy. So, I've blended the two and as a result, I will go through quickly. If I'm at any point going through too quickly, slow me down. Um, and just ask your questions along the way or whenever you'd like. Um, so because I'm covering the two sets of expectations, I'll go quickly. The other thing that I'll I'll do to try to go quickly is I have an example of each requested item. That was a glorious decision from the board years ago because otherwise I would feel compelled to give you all of the great examples that I can think of of every aspect of our operations as a district. Um, as a preface, I there there'll be some overlap too in what I present because this is my seventh presentation, which is really exciting for me. I don't ever take that for granted. I certainly never expected an opportunity like this. So um I really appreciate uh this opportunity on a daily basis and uh I feel the weight of responsibility but the rocket fuel of opportunity um to really make things happen. Um, Nick Sabin told me a story once, and by that I mean I was watching YouTube and Nick Sabin was telling a story. Um, and he talked about uh someone he was fishing with who kept throwing back the large fish that he was catching. He'd catch a large fish, throw it back, catch a large fish, throw it back, then you catch a small fish and keep it. And this continued and he got frustrated and said, "Why are you throwing back the big fish?" He said, "Well, I only have a 9-in skillet at home." And what I've really appreciated is that the board has said, "What size skillet do you need? Let's figure this out." Um, we haven't limited ourselves and that's the board has led the way on that. But all 9,000 employees have also thought that way. There are so many ways that we've thought we're not going to throw the big fish back because we have some bureaucratic limit or some limit in our own minds about what we can accomplish. in in some of our discussions uh on how to revamp some of our work within a particular department. We talked with we we talked about this concept of mechanics and mindset. There are the mechanics of what we do and there's the mindset behind it. And if you only switch the mechanics, then you can't get the maximum benefit of the time that you spend with students. But if you switch the mechanics and the mindset, then there's no limit to what you can do. Anywhere you see that we are maybe not where we'd like to be on these numbers today, there's a plan. There are active things happening to improve those numbers. Some of the numbers mean less than they used to because of the way tests have changed, but I'll just tell you overall I am thrilled with where things are headed in the district. I appreciate your support in allowing us to do and and and giving us that rocket fuel to do the things that we know we need to do. Um I'm surrounded by great people in every direction. I have um I have the best cabinet anywhere. And you guys know that too because you get to interact with them. But uh they're as good as as as as they could. Uh every one of them. and um our administrators, our ESPs, our teachers, our counselors, our our our licensed employees, our psyches, our OT's, PTS, everybody. Um we have 14 15 job families in our ESPs. We have people who work 10 hours a week that make a huge impact on students. Um, it's really overwhelming the size of this district and the things that are accomplished on a daily basis. So, that's just the preface that um you're also going to see big numbers about big things happening, but it really comes down to individual interactions in a classroom, in an office, in a department. So these are the large trends. This is the overview. But those individual interactions really are pure magic. Okay, let's uh let's go ahead and talk about EL300 global executive limitations. I mean, let's let's really dive into the good stuff. Um, like I said, this is a blend of old and new expectations. And I'm going to go through quickly because some of this can feel um a little repetitive for those who have listened before. Um, but superintendent and business administrator are expected to maintain lawful and ethical professional business practices. There's no better Jiminy Cricket than John Larson. So, um I think we do great work together. Um we're a great um yin and yang to really make sure that we're we're moving forward in a responsible and visionary way. So, I think um John just really helps me be at my best there. Um treatment of students and their families The example of that is portrait of a graduate and strategic plan. The board has spent money and time and resources and I appreciate the discussion today that will give us a structure where we can continue to talk more about portrait of a graduate and the strategic plan and how that's moving forward. I receive emails, photos, messages from teachers and from others who've really internalized that. I've heard about from departments that don't interact directly with students who have felt that the portrait of a graduate has really given purpose and meaning to the work that they do. So we'll continually talk about portrait of a graduate but the the vision you've shown and the work you've put into this and the resources are really paying off and giving broad meaning to what we do. Treatment of staff. I'm just going to use the supercast as the way that um I feel that I've most effectively been able to stay connected to great things happening. Um it's we we had our third most popular show in the last couple of months uh over the last seven years that we've been doing this. Communications makes it possible. There's no way I could do it without them. Um, the supercast would be me talking to myself on the way home in the car without communications. Um, it's just it's it really gives me an opportunity like with the most recent one of the most recent episodes talking with teachers at Riverton Elementary about Planet Kindergarten. Planet Kindergarten is one of those examples of seeing beyond a 9-in skillet because you've got um you know, if you had a nine-inch frying pan, you'd say, "Oh, kids can only learn so much in kindergarten." But we just decided uh as a as a department and as a district, letters and sounds by the beginning of November. And that's happening at a rate never seen before. And it was so fun to celebrate that with them as a representative school of the many schools that are reaching goals that a few years ago we wouldn't have expected to be able to reach. So the supercast gives me an opportunity to highlight achievements like that. This annual report is one of the ways that we communicate our um accomplishments to the board, our accomplishments as a as a district. I've outlined before those accomplishments are the efforts of um not just 9,000 um employees but 56,000 students and their families and communities and taxpayers who contribute to this effort that don't have any kids or grandkids or nieces or nephews in the system but they still believe in it. Um, so it's this this is the report and as you know because of the board's leadership, this is a very accessible report. You can tab to certain portions of the meeting. It's it it just the information about how we operate's been easily accessible and widely available for a long time and I appreciate your support in that. the board bulletin, um live streaming board meetings, financial reports. There's just a lot available to the public. Like I said, you're going to see some repetition here as we have the old and new goals. Uh emergency succession. Uh Mike Anderson is known throughout the state. He's uh just exemplary and um he's one of those people where I can send them to him to a meeting or I know he's somewhere and he's just representing me personally and the district at large. Uh everyone's better off when I can't make it and he can he can be there. Um it's it's just and and and Dan, I got to meet with Dan today. Dan does an incredible job as our director of accounting. our accounting department's never been better off. And so he's able to he would be able to run with things. So if if John and I were marooned on a desert aisle following a conference or something, everything would move forward uh very smoothly. There's a high level of coordination and and uh we're prepared to move forward. There's redundancy in place. That's something that John taught me um early on. John taught me that early on. I just thought I'd be redundant in saying that. Um, but it it's we we have it built in so that if somebody leaves, we're able to continue to move on. Our mission statement, um, you know, we move that forward with portrait of a graduate and our strategic plan and everything that we do as an administration is focused on student success. Um, anyone not teaching in a classroom directly is support. It's support services. if you're not directly teaching a student because that's really the key that's the key element of what we do. Again, this is the the blend of the old and the new student achievement um just expanded student opportunities is the Jordan credit center. Uh the Jordan credit center was required by law. We made some adjustments and we've gone well beyond the put the minimum requirements and this provides something in between a um an online course and brick and mortar. It's just it's just one more way to earn credit demonstrated competency and we're going to continue to spread the word on that. our our very quick implementation last summer uh just allowed for a lot of students to have access to to programs that they wouldn't have otherwise. And this year, we want to be sure that the word gets out in ways that it hasn't previously. And this is further example of how we're trying to provide everything within Jordan School District because then we know it's the highest quality possible because of the people we have access to, the educators and ESPs, administrators, and others that we have access to. Um, again, the Jordan Credit Center is one example of dozens and dozens of new opportunities that are available now. And the Jordan Credit Center is also available at that great location that the student from our Jordan Virtual Academy described. Okay, I have Mr. Jameson here with me that can help answer at a deeper technical level the questions that you may have about some of the student achievement that we are going to go over. Um, we have a changing demographic and plateauing enrollment and with that comes a shift in uh the context for our numbers. Context is important. I've used this example twice with the same board member in the last few weeks, but I'm going to use it again because I think it's apt. It's always important to have context when you're looking at numbers or you're talking about a situation. Because what we do is complex. If I said to my kids when they were younger, "Do you want to be in the car for 12 hours?" They might say, "No, of course not. I don't want to sit in the car for 12 hours." What if I said, "Do you want to go to Disneyland?" Great. Let's get in the car for 12 hours. So, context matters always. Um, and if you have questions about this, please let us know along the way. And I'm sure sure Mr. Jameson can answer them. Um, so we have declining attendance rates, we have changing demographics and plateauing enrollment. So those play into what we're able to accomplish and and how we need to adjust. And when you're looking at that really in many ways, if you can if you have conditions that change and may make some things more challenging, but you're able to even maintain scores, then that's a positive. But if you move forward, that's even more positive than it might seem. So, um, as you can see, enrollment has plateaued and is starting to trend down a little bit. Um and that will continue for some time as we anticipate. Um older grade enrollment increases. So you we we don't just necessarily see someone from a younger grade move on to the to the upper grades. It just depends on the grade level what type of growth you might see. It's not linear necessarily. So there are ups and downs and and and it's it's a different shifting population when we're looking at these scores. Uh our white students versus minority students, there's a there's a there's an increase in minority students. A a reduction in the number of white students. So we are at 30.8% minority students at this point and 69.2% white students. And these are categories that are reported at the state level and the federal level as well. Economically disadvantaged, we're down to 22.1% and we're a little bit down in students with disabilities 13.5%. By the way, if you need uh anything signed to get credit for a course, Mr. Anderson's available in the lobby. He's giving out uh social studies credit, I believe, right now. signing autographs also for your memory book. >> And I have to go back a couple the older grades still increasing. Can I just don't understand that. Can you explain that one? So, if you're at a charter school, K6, and then you come in middle or high school, >> that's where we >> or if you're moving in, you know, we may have people that are moving in with older students or uh students who are on the Utah Fitsall scholarship and then come in for older grades because they want to be a part of those classes. Just that >> where 12 is so high is that people coming in wanting to gra get a walk a diploma or something. >> Yeah, maybe >> maybe see that same thing next year. It's not a age growing out but maybe a desire for our programs is >> it could be. Yes, that's right. >> And I want pe I want students to have a choice. Of course, Utah is one of those schools, one of those areas where the law has choice in place and I think that's a really good thing. I just want to have all the choices in Jordan, too. So, if you want to come to Jordan, there's a way for you to do that and accomplish everything you want to accomplish. We're not there yet, but we we're working on it. >> Full number there. >> These are the average daily attendance rates that are declining slightly. Um, but it's not a huge dip. It's just we we'd sure like that to be higher. Chronic absences are increasing slightly, especially among some high high needs student populations. the chronically absent. Um, that's if you're enrolled for 60 plus days and absent for 10% or more of those days. >> All right. So, can I ask another question? >> Sure. >> Sorry. So, the average daily rate is slightly declining, but I think the chronic absences are going up a little bit more. So, is it fair to say that some of those absences that are going down are done by fewer students? Does that mean >> is that a fair >> to some degree? Yes. But at the same time, we're seeing large numbers of students absent, but especially chronic absentee kids. That's where the bulk of those absences are. >> That seems to be increasing at a bigger rate than >> and it also takes quite a large end size to dramatically affect an average attendance rate across a 180day school year. So we will see small differences, declines, and inclines and that kind of thing. Whereas what to affect a chronically absent rate that can that can show wider gains or losses. Okay. Uh our newcomer absenteeism is increasing. So this year we saw a uh dramatically higher rate this last year of newcomers to our country um were more were were absent more frequently from school. So why sure >> the what qualifies a newcomer >> is a refugee uh immigrant >> just refugees and immigrants not necessarily someone who is new to Jordan >> new to the country >> okay >> and to Jordan uh why is attendance something to consider because there's a there's a correlation when you see that students are absent their achievement suffers So can I ask on the newcomer data? >> Sure. >> These percentages are not saying we have more newcomers but that >> the percentage of newcomer >> average the percentage of their absences is growing. >> That's correct. And this is a relatively small number compared with the broader number, but I thought it was significant because of the just we we want to look at the big numbers and the smaller groups as well and and notice those patterns. So this is what I referenced earlier. Consistency on upward or upward trends with a changing demographic and increasing absenteeism is a celebration. Okay. Elementary monitoring criteria. A cadence reading for third for grade three year-over-year calculations. Juniper Elementary is not included in the denominator uh just because it's a new school. And for grades four through six yearover-year calculations, Ridgeview and Juniper Elementary are not included in the denominator. The numerator remains untouched. No, I'm just kidding. There >> reason not >> just because of the new configuration. Okay. Academic growth criteria goal is not met in Aadian reading for third grade. The percentage of the district's elementary schools whose most recent year's third grade end ofear percentage on benchmark is greater than 90 or greater than the prior year's EO percentage on benchmark. We were 53.6 last year and we were 53.6 this year. So we did not grow and we did not hit 90%. We are at 69.5%. >> So is that a three or a four that they have to have in order or it just has to be growth? >> So the the ends policy metric is just the the percentage of schools that improved their at or above benchmark status over the prior year. Um, and then in the bottom right corner there where it says third grade percent at or above benchmark, that's the the blue and the green on a cadence reading. >> Shed any light on what was going well in 2023 that is gone now. It feels like a significant drop off since that year. Some of that is going to be a shift in our curriculum imple implementation. Um, learning new curriculum that's pretty substantially different than than prior. Takes a little bit of time to master for teachers. And I think some of it's going to be that. Um, recind of prioritizing where we're going to allocate instructional time, what we're focusing on and that kind of thing. I think we're going to see that come round. Um, and I think we'll start to see that come out in the in the rise data as well. >> Will you correct me if I'm wrong, but did we implement our walk to read and reading focus in 2023? >> We actually implemented earlier than that, but Whitten Wisdom was a later implementation. >> Watch carefully. >> It is. Yep. I'm a little confused with um the numbers 53.6 and 2005 and then 69.5. Maybe I'm just a little slow. That's the percentage 53.6 is the percentage of schools that improved and the uh 69.5 is the number who are at or above or the percentage they're at or above benchmark. First one is the the percentage of schools that improve. The second one is the number of students that >> the overall percentage >> and so the at or above is a three or a four is twos are considered below. Is that right? >> You could term it that way. A cadence doesn't really use a one, two, three or four here, but it is basically a four-point scale. It'll it'll use well below benchmark, below benchmark, which would be the one and two. And then at benchmark would be a three and then above benchmark would be a four. So yeah, essentially a three or a four. >> Is it like green, blue? >> Yes. >> Red. Well, red is the lowest, I guess. I don't know. >> Okay. Thank you. I'm just trying to consider. >> So recently the governor said that he wanted to hold back any third grader that's not reading on benchmark. So that means 30% of our Is that true? 30% of our if that was implied, right? But is that mean 30% of our third graders aren't reading on benchmark? That's what it's saying, right? >> Benchmark or grade level? >> See, benchmark and grade level are two different things. And I am signed up for a conference. I was invited to a meeting in Ogden with the governor in January to roll this out. So I don't know exactly. I saw the report in the Tribune or I read the article in the Tribune, but I don't know exactly what his proposal is and I look forward to that. It's a kind of an all day event. >> Yeah. And I know that will evolve. I'm just wondering like if it was enacted we is benchmark mean grade level or is that different? Is benchmark >> benchmark and grade level are different? I'll ask Mr. Jameson to explain that. >> Yeah. Uh so reading on grade level for Utah is actually a very high standard. It's the highest in the nation. Um we're expecting 70% of third graders to be above benchmark. So that blue a four in a cadence reading. Um which like I say is very high. Um it's the equivalent of of well actually I'll I'll leave Dr. Godfrey to explain to to show you a slide that that depicts that in a bit. Um the 69.5% is the at or above benchmark. The reading on grade level then is just above benchmark. It's actually a lower percentage. It's around 50%. Dr. Godfrey will show you that in a minute. Um so yeah, it I also will be interested to know how um Governor Cox expects to roll that out. >> What happens? >> I just wanted to know the number of kids. That's that's very good explanation. I do want to point out though that by the time students leave our educational our elementary program I should say they're leaving with 80% at or above benchmark. Um and so third grade's a good kind of halfway measurement. Um but but we've got students right on pace really as they enter in terms of a multi-tered system of supports as they enter into into middle school. >> Been that because we have a really good remediation program to catch them up, right? Yeah, which lends back to that walk to read program that President George mentioned. Any other questions on this slide? Percentage of third grade students at or above benchmark by the end of year. Percentage of K3 students at or above benchmark by end of the year. Percentage of K3 students making typical or better growth by end of year. Actually, let's go back one. So, we've looked at some of the things that we're doing. The board approved purchasing um additional books. I almost said reading materials, books um to increase student fluency and that's really going to help impact this. We also have goals like planet kindergarten now set with first grade and we gave schools options on how to structure their literacy time because as we looked at other districts that have improved their scores that's what's really made an impact. So we continue to implement new programs we have those uh goals and the time expectations in place and the reading materials the books that will help move forward on that fluency. So, there are really clear plans to keep this moving in uh a positive direction or get it moving back into that positive direction. So, this comes back to that reading on grade level standard, the highest in the nation. And I'm just going to read this while you look at that. Utah's reading on grade level standard translates to 750 Lexile, which is about the 68th percentile for end of year in grade three, meaning that nationally 68% would be expected to score lower than that and only 32% to score higher. Utah law states that by the end of the 2026 27 school year, at least 70% of third graders must score at this level. So 70% are expected to achieve a reading level. Only 32% achieve nationally. So when you look at that goal, it's kind of flipping the numbers. Nationally, 30% would be expected to do that. In Utah, we're expecting 70% to do that. >> There that it says Utah law states that this must happen. What happens if we don't meet it? >> Well, that has changed over time. Um, I don't know exactly what the penalty is. I've just expected to meet that goal >> for sure. Yeah, we we want to meet it, but I'm just >> there used to be a financial I think um that funding was reduced if I'm not mistaken, but now I'm getting a little into the deep water here. So, >> not assume we don't want to make a you know out of >> Exactly. Um >> reduced funding seems like it would make the problem >> make it worse. Well, >> I actually think we get more funding with our kids. >> Well, we get we might not get the same funding, but we would get support that came from the state level, I think. But I don't think anyone's close to making that. Ben, are you aware of anyone getting close to 70%. Yeah. Well, we're all in it together, whatever that consequence is. So, um, >> this slide is you is really helpful though to see that because it's okay to have a high expectation, but it's also okay to have a realistic expectation. I'll say this too. Having a high expectation is important, but you need to, like you said, you need to understand that it is a high expectation and kind of understand the mechanics behind that. We passed out buttons. Teaching and learning passed out buttons in the elementary principal meeting, 2% buttons, and they talked really specifically about how many students in each classroom need to move forward for us to have a significant improvement on this number. And we can have a 2% shift upward, which would be huge, with only a student or so in each classroom. And they had it all calculated out. We're going to be giving out 2% milk, all kinds of things to just remind, you know, it can feel daunting to reach for this big goal, but it's a few students at a time that you're able to move things forward. So, like I said, even where things aren't where we would like them to be yet, there is a specific plan moving forward. And we haven't always seen an implementation dip. Uh, with math, you'll see that we have not seen that. But when you're changing not just the mechanics but the mindset, it's important to keep in mind that that does take time and that impact takes some time. >> I do I have a question. >> Yes. >> Are multilanguage learners or newcomers included in this data or are they tested differently? they are included in that data >> and it's in reading English not reading their native language. >> That's right. Okay. So that's why I give the context to say if you're maintaining or in range but your demographics have changed dramatically then there's there's there's uh there's still cause to be pleased with consistency >> explain the reason for the way that they consider this like why do they choose to highlight highlight Utah's reading in a way that reflects poorly on schools. Do you explain that? >> That is a question I would love to explore, but that would be speculative on my part. I do not know for sure. >> Okay. I was just curious if they said, "Here's why we think it'll make us work harder or like if there's ever been a statement of why we do it so differently than other states." because every time I'm I listen to the assessment and standards committee meetings at USB and every time they preface it with this long explanation of why yes this is our number but our number is actually this because we do it different and I just I don't understand why >> I I I will say this I am right there with you I don't understand why this is the standard I I could understand um saying this is the percentage of students reading on grade level and defining that in a way that's comparable with other states and then next saying what we'd really like to see is this percentage and call it something else and put this 70% that's 30% in any other state it do you see what I'm getting at and say this is this is the comparable able goal and this is the super duper goal that we'd really like to meet instead of making it sound like we're failing because we've got 80% at or above benchmark. That's really good, but it's not really good if you have a standard that's completely different from everyone else's. So, I've asked myself the same questions that you have. I have theories and thoughts, but it's never been explained to me clearly why that standard is in place the way that it is. >> We'll keep striving for it. >> USB set this standard. >> Okay. >> The legislature set the 70% threshold. They just didn't define 70% of what? So, USB said it'll be a cadence reading assessment and it'll be the percentage of kids at uh excuse me that are um above benchmark. >> So, USB defined the above benchmark 70% not the at benchmark. Right. >> Got it. Thank you. So, it's one of those cases where the legislature says this is the law and then USB says and this is what that law means. >> Thank you. So essentially Utah's reading on grade level standard is a college readiness standard not a risk indicator which Aadian is designed to be a risk indicator as USP explained to superintendent last week. So it's a it's a bit of a we're in choppy waters now. deep choppy waters a little bit. But the state goal is 70% of third graders on reading on grade level. I will say we're all working toward the same goal. We just want kids to read, understand, think critically, feel connected, feel a sense of belonging, and I know USB, the legislature, and everyone in Jordan district is aligned in those goals. How we define those and how those shift with different tests and different metrics. I don't want to overemphasize that. I know that USB wants that uh wants us to move forward in the same direction that we're trying to move forward and the legislature feels the same way. I I worry that the definitions make it sound like things aren't going as well as they really are. And I'm never satisfied. I'm We're never going to reach cruising altitude. It's never going to be like, "Oh, all right. There we are. We're at 30,000 feet now. We just kind of cruise. We walk about the cabin. It's like we're always striving. We're always trying to do better and better. Rise ELA. This assessment is different. This is a different assessment. So if you compare last year 39% um had growth and this year only 20%. That's because it's a whole different test. It's like last year you ran the mile in four minutes and this year you were able to arm wrestle John Larson and win. Like you know it doesn't really compare. I've never beaten him. He beats me every time. But um so there's the uh percentage proficient on rise. Anything to add there? We good? Okay. The rise assessment changed based on the newly approved ELA core approved by USPE. Speaking and listening items were removed. Cluster questions were introduced. That's where you have questions about a passage for example and if you answer you know what's the main theme of this paragraph and then you have to give evidence and the evidence is where you can get it wrong. You can choose different themes. It doesn't matter which theme you choose. It's do you can you find the evidence? That sort of thing. We like those because they're more engaging questions but it's it's just a different test. So, uh, it really becomes a reading reading test as opposed to speaking and listening and all those other skills. Rise LA proficiency, uh, Utah versus Jordan school district. Um, so the Utah's score went from 46 to 43.5. Ours went from 45.5 to 44.1 at the elementary level on rise math which is comparable from year to year. We had an increase from 41.5% to 50% of schools that were uh that saw a percentage of academic growth that where where they had a greater percentage of students were proficient from one year to the next. And the total proficient is 43.2. Last year it was 43.7 or the previous year 43.7. kind of steady on rise math, but we're changing our math instruction and we anticipate seeing those numbers grow. RI science the goal was not met. Um the percentage seeing growth in 24 was 58.5. The percentage in in 2025 was 57.5. 24 schools versus 23 schools. So we did not meet that goal. And there you see the scores but you do see a gradual rise in scores. ask if these goals are they Jordan school district goals or they stay >> these are the old ends policies. >> Okay. >> So enjoy them while they last because that we won't be reporting on these same metrics next year. >> But I think it's important to point out there is a reason why we shifted and made we are holding him to a standard that we moved away from for a reason. So be understanding that he's accounting to standards that we've changed because there was a need to change them. >> Right? >> So I love that he's saying here's I'm holding up the old standard, but I think there's we all need to acknowledge that there's a new standard and there's a reason for a new standard >> because we didn't want the old standard anymore. >> We didn't feel like the old standard was an adequate measure of what we expect in students. And that's after asking community, business leaders, teachers, parents, everyone, what is the standard? What should we ask? What standard should we expect of students? And we developed an entire new policy based on what they told us. But bless his heart, he's holding himself accountable to a standard we no longer hold him to. It's a transition here. Thank you for that. That's good context. It felt like we were driving for 12 hours and you just took us to Disneyland, so that's good. Okay. Middle school monitoring criteria. Goal met. Ninth grade credit deficiencies. That's when you're coming into high school as a 10th grader. Are you coming with Fs? Are you coming with deficiencies in credit? Lower percentage of students coming with that. 17.9 as opposed to 18.6 goal met in rise ELA 2024 62.9% had uh growth. Now we've got 76.9%. 10 schools versus nine. 10 schools out of 13. Pretty good. If you look at that rise ELA going up ELA proficiency Utah versus Jordan school district it went down in the state it went up in Jordan rise math goal met 53.8% 8% in seven schools 61.5% eight schools now total proficient 43.9 so you see that steady slow increase rise science from nine schools 62.9% seeing academic growth to 11 schools 84.6 six 11 out of 13 schools 50.9% proficient you see those that increase over the last three years percentage of AP tests passed for the most recent year at the middle level greater percentage not quite at 80 yet but it was 63.6% 6% pass rate in 2024, 70.9% in 2025. And look at that participation. Normally when participation goes up, pass rates go down. Higher participation and higher pass rates. >> Again, you have to conclude that their ability to read is part of their success in middle school. So, how can we say they're failing in reading in middle school if they're participating in AP exams and and succeeding? You've got to make a connection between the elementary and the middle school success. You can't say we're failing in elementary school and look at this and say, "Wow, we are succeeding in middle school." They didn't magically learn how to read in order to take an AP test. This is where you're seeing the momentum because most of those metrics in elementary are in the early grades. We have 80% reading on grade level by sixth grade and then you see these results in middle school. So, thank you for that. So, higher participation on AP, better scores. Look at that. Pretty exciting. There's the participation in biology and environmental science. Highest pass rate achieved so far. >> We are higher now than we were preandemic is something to celebrate. That is awesome. >> Agreed. Agreed. The pandemic was like you're racing around the track and then they said hold. Okay. Wait. The person that you would have been is running around the track and the person you are is still standing. We're still catching up. But it's it's I appreciate that. That's good perspective. >> Dr. Godfrey, these are all ninth graders. >> Yes. No. No. Some of them are eighth graders in Alps. >> There are there are some. Yeah. >> Yeah. And there might some others. >> Sorry. Are there aren't there some eighth graders? >> World language. >> Even our DLI kids don't take it till 9th. H I'll look offline. >> Well, I'll I'll ask uh Mr. Jameson to send you information on eighth graders taking AP tests. Okay. High school level, uh the ACT score goal not met. Um the percentage meaning all four benchmarks went from 22 to 20 and an 18 plus composite score from 65 to 63. The participation has gone up dramatically. >> Now this is what account typically when participation goes up scores go down. This is a more typical result. More participation, lower scores, >> but still in range there. Still in range of where they were. >> What's the draw for more participation? Because it seems like we're not emphasizing college as much are >> Yeah. >> programs really taken off, but it seems like the ones who not involved in that jump into AP. >> Fewer colleges are even looking at the ACT. >> Yeah. Yet our state is funding a test for every junior. It's interesting. >> I um I asked for an internal study on how we could raise ACT scores a few years ago. And I did not ask the board to put resources toward that because it's doesn't mean what it used to. And so we focused in other areas quite frankly. Not that it isn't important, but it it used to be that you could just calculate I've got this GPA and I've got this ACT score and that's the amount of a scholarship I'm going to receive. So you're right, it's a changing landscape. But yet I feel like high schools are focusing more on it. I I mean taking practice tests at younger ages. Sophomores are taking tests. >> The number of people getting perfect scores. I've never seen the number of people getting perfect scores. >> Ever like we see today. >> It's wild. >> Yeah. >> Right. Three times. didn't quite get >> um percentage of of students meeting college readiness benchmarks high school level goal met uh for academic growth on AP scores 76.9% pass rate in 2024 81.4% 4% in 2025 >> and from 69 to 81 in a 2year span. >> Yes, sir. 69 to 81 in two years. And you saw it was 65, 67, 69, 69. Now 76, then 81. And that's some hardworking family, students, and teachers with a high level of expertise at the middle and high school level. And look at participation. A leap in results and a leap in participation. That's what we want to see. Looks good on a bar graph, too. >> Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Well beyond prepandemic numbers. And I'll say this, this is a good moment to say this and I'll say it again, but this is a cumulative effect as President George mentioned and as as uh Vice President Dunford mentioned, this is a cumulative effect from so everybody gets credit for this all the way starting in preschool all the way up. Every employee gets credit for this. every parent, every student. It's just really exciting. Oh, another high school goal met. Number of credits earned and concurrent enrollment. Percentage of enrollment. Graduation rate 91.8%. which gets even more exciting when we break it down. That is the highest percentage graduation rate that we've had since graduation rates were calculated this way. The highest, like I said, everybody gets credit for that. 82.2% 2% in 2012. 2019, 2018, you're in the 80s. 91.8. Lot of great people working really hard. Dropout rates over time, the dropout rate is the lowest it's ever been. Lowest dropout rate ever, highest graduation rate ever. And those AP scores and the other scores show you that it means something when they graduate. Look at this confirmed dropout rate. That means that we know where you went. We know where you ended up and you didn't end up graduating. 6%. It's tough to do better than that. We're going to try the 2.7% is even a reduction in the unknown rate. And the unknown rate that can be simply recordeping. Somebody moves someplace else and their records weren't properly transferred. The way it's calculated is that that counts against you. So that you can't just say, "Whoops, that person who wasn't going to graduate, we don't know what happened to them." So, the reason that this is important is it breaks down. It shows that we have fewer students where we don't know where they've ended up or we've had issues with the transfer or whatever, but we only have 6% of students that are our students that we know about that don't graduate. CTE certifications. We're still waiting for that information. Last year, we got it the day of the presentation, but uh we'll update you when we get that information. So, we met one of the elementary goals, the old ones. These are all the old goals. We met all of the middle school goals, and we met all but one of the high school goals that we know about so far. and the one we didn't was the ACT. Okay, this is the new ends policy information. High quality instruction. This is just a list of these assessments that were not included previously that we'll be looking at going forward. A cadence math assesses early numeracy skills. We hear this may even be changing. I just don't know what's going to be happening, but this is where we're looking at on those numbers. Percentage of K3 students making typical or better progress by the end of the year. Aspire Plus, this is the last time Aspire Plus is going to be administered. I'm just going through this quickly. This is these are the new standards that we're really not working with yet, but I wanted you to have this information. And uh Mr. Jameson and his department have worked really hard. Brooke has worked really hard to uh put all this together. We really appreciate it. This is posted as well for those who are listening in. And if there's any part of this that you want more information on, we can make that a part of board meeting or Mr. Jameson or I can reach out to you and provide more answers. Like I said, I don't want to go too quickly over this, but Utah Aspire Plus grades percentage predicted ACT science. Look at those science scores going up. ELA scores. This the interesting thing here is that this because we're such a large sample size for this number, we're always going to be right kind of in the middle. We're we're a big portion of are we what 10% of the students in 8% of the students in the state. So it's going to that's going to be a pretty steady number going forward. Dynamic learning maps assessment is administered to students with significant cognitive and intellectual disabilities. Sometimes there's a question about whether those scores are included here and that's going forward the dynamic learning maps are going to be included. So using the dynamic learning maps are ELA percentage proficient over time. Those are the scores there. Those are the math scores. Science proficiency. What's the N on this? Would you say >> dynamic learning maps, >> right? What's the number of students there? >> Oh, about 300. >> About 300 students. Culture of belonging. This is Panorama survey participation over time. So, we have higher participation in elementary and secondary. And what are the results we see from that? A slight increase in sense of belonging in elementary and about a 5% increase in secondary. Student and staff wellness uh is man measured in panorama and motion regulation. Elementary is about flat. Secondary has increased slightly. Educator engagement survey participation over time. That's something that's offered by USB. So higher participation and educator engagement survey. Percentage of students selecting a favorable answer about their educators increase there. Adequate adequate planning time for educators. Supervisor is understanding expectations of the difficulty of work. These are all the categories that the educator engagement survey covers. Are they answering like as a teacher I felt prepared for the workload or they're saying as a teacher I feel my students were prepared? >> Yeah, it's teachers that are taking the survey. That previous slide that said percent of students answering in an affirmative that's a misnomer. It should be teachers. >> Okay. Yeah, it's teachers that are taking the survey >> and they're taking it from their perspective. So, as a teacher, I feel prepared for collaboration. >> So, that 77.5% of teachers feel prepared for parent interactions, 72% prepared for collaboration, 68% prepared for student behaviors. So, let's go back to that previous slide. >> That should say teachers. Sorry about that. >> Tell me, I'm not sure I understand what expectations of difficulty of work means. >> You'll remember this in in our pre-ervice classes. I don't know that pre-ervice in universities give us a very good idea of how difficult teaching can actually be. And as teachers come in, um, I think there's a a monster realization that this is complex, complicated, and extremely difficult work. And I think that since the pandemic, that difficulty has just increased. Um, and I think that that survey question is a reflection of teachers perception of that. In other words, only 43% felt like they were were prepared for it to be as hard as it is, >> right? >> So essentially asking people in college to get people to change their major away from teaching. That's what you're saying. Like no, >> tell them more how hard >> No, it's just it's just tell them it's worth it. It's very rewarding, but these are the difficulties that you can expect. It's a hard It's a hard job. It's a very hard job as >> them to do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is great. >> That's right. Effective communication. We have a much lower parent response rate to that stakeholder input survey. So these are parents. But >> can I comment on that? >> Sure. >> My observation is parents get involved when they think there's a problem and they're concerned. The less parents get involved, it's often an indication that they believe things are going very smoothly. >> Yeah. And so low parent participation is not necessarily a reflection of lack of trust or schools going badly. It's I think everything's going great. >> Right. >> I am not alarmed at a low participation rate among parents. >> Me neither. I appreciate you bringing up that point. Really, when folks take a survey like this, they're either very upset and want to talk about it or they're very, very happy and want to talk about it. And you can see from our numbers here, it's largely folks that are pretty happy. Um, but a decline in a participation rate with parents generally because they get lots of reminders. There's plenty of communication about it both from schools and directly from the survey instrument. Um, so they have plenty of opportunities to respond and if they're feeling okay about things, then it's okay not to. >> I'm wondering if the decline in participating in the parent survey could also be a reflection of our changing demographics and maybe parents not wanting to or knowing how or speaking the language enough or I don't know. It it could also be changing the communication format because I will admit I realized just recently that I did not fill out a survey because I I'm not checking parent square like I anyway it's just a little different. So I'm wondering if that could possibly have something to do with it. Also people not being quite used to the new communication system. So I'll address both the cot. >> Um our primary um language other than English spoken in homes is Spanish. Um and so when we sent out the invitation, so I sent it out in two ways. We sent it out via Qualrix, which is our survey platform. So they got a direct email that was not part of Parent Square. Um that invitation came in both English and Spanish. And then the survey is available in English and Spanish as well. And we had a number of of folks who speak Spanish respond. um because we have open response comments and there were some in Spanish that I needed to translate. Um so there was that but then we also asked schools um to invite via parent square. Many parents will respond if a school is asking and not if they're going to get an email from Qualrix from me with my name on it. Um and so we asked for both and some responded one way or the other. Um as as well. Yeah. But I I will say in this year's climate survey, which is not data that's showing here, we did see a lot of comments about parent square on both sides. That will probably be I'm not done analyzing, but it will probably be the most frequent comment was about parent square. >> And and I'm not trying to put hate on parent square. I think parent square is fine. I Anyway, I just thought that could be >> someone filled out my survey, >> right? But I have two students who each have two teachers, so it took me a while. >> All right. Elementary parent stakeholder input survey. This is parents about teachers in the 90s in the 80s for secondary. All right. Empowering employees. >> Our poor elementary teachers took some hits in that data. And when you say that 96.6 of parents feel like their par that teacher cares about their kid and would help them, we've got to give a little note to that. >> It's a big deal. >> It's a very big deal. >> Yeah, it's tough to do better than that. Like I said about the graduation rate, it's tough to do better than that. And I'd say even for secondary in the 80s I would say that's in some measure because they we just don't always know secondary teachers as well as we know our elementary teacher because there's one versus eight or seven. So um yes, thank you for emphasizing that. Great responses from parents about their teachers. Great responses. um empowering employees. The biggest thing empowering employees, I think, is the professional development opportunities that the board has supported. It is tremendous how we've been able to say, "Oh, this class fails, we're going to offer another one. That class filled, we're going to offer another one." And it's it's I've heard that a lot just that the the professional development opportunities really draws teachers here and keep them here, employees generally. Customer service. I'll put Parent Square down as customer service. Yes, continuing to make sure that we're informing and and adjusting on Parent Square, but really it's been a uh a big effort to be sure that we're communicating well with with our parents safety and security. Door wedges. We have purchased door wedges and we are working on locks to be sure that doors are properly open all the way or closed all the way and locked at all times. That's just one example of many things being done in the district to comply with state law regarding safety and security. I know that was long, but it was also as fast as I could possibly go while still highlighting the incredible things happening. Jordan's a great district because of so many families, students, employees at every level, in every category, at every school, in every building and department. I just, like I said, it's everywhere I look. and your support as a board is unique and it's the only way we can do all of this and I don't take your support grant for granted any more than I do my position. I I feel very very fortunate and uh I open to any questions or thoughts. >> I have one question. >> Yes. Name one thing that another district is doing that you wish Jordan was doing. >> Um, it's okay to say I can't answer that question, but as you interact with other superintendents, as you watch, I know I know you're very aware of what's going on in the state of Utah. Can you name one thing that another district is doing that you wish we were either doing or doing better than we are? Uh there is a district that whose superintendent I spoke with about leadership development and they have done some things to provide mentoring and coaching for their administrators beyond supervision. we have um and I think that's an an an additional role to be played and it's just you need more than one person to be able to be um the coach, mentor, support, supervision. I I think there's a role to be played there. And I spoke with a superintendent of a smaller district, a a rather small district who has um really done a very good job of that over the years. And I heard about that years ago and it stuck with me. And I think that is an area that our leaders are asking for. They're asking for that additional support. For example, being able to take an administrator through a coaching cycle, which is impossible to do with a supervisor, no matter how supportive they are, you need someone separate to to be a coach for you. And so formal coaching for administrators, mentoring of administrators and in a different way, that's something I spoke with a superintendent about two weeks ago with an eye toward how we can do that in the near future. So that's one example of something that another district has done and I do think they kind of reach cruising altitude on that. they they built momentum and then they they're maintaining that now because it's a smaller district. They don't have very much turnover. Um so so that's the first thing that leaps to mind because when we provide that support and that coaching then that impacts everyone in every building and and there's only so much that we can do at the district level. That's why I'm so thrilled to have the high quality principles that we do and principal supervisors that we do because that synergy creates that environment at the at the elementary school, at the middle school, at the high school that makes parents want to send their kids there, kids want to keep coming every day, and employees want to keep coming to work. So, that's where I think we can get a lot of bang for our buck and a lot of leverage. Um, so I'm looking at that and I'll be bringing ideas to the board in the coming months for the coming year, but there's a district who's just hit that out of the park and I talked with them and got some good ideas from them. Actually, two districts, one very large and one uh on the small end. One of the things I've always appreciated about Superintendent Godfrey is he is not unaware. He is not unaware of the fires that are immediately in front of him that need to be put out. But he doesn't get so caught up in that that he's not thinking way out there to say where are we going and what changes do we need to make now to get where we want to go. I'm always fascinated to see where his head is in terms of pulling today's levers and tomorrow's levers. So, I very much have appreciated that over the years. The the reason I voted to hire Superintendent Godfrey is he said one thing that just you sold me. He just told me I know where the levers are that need to be pulled. That phrase has never left me. I know where the levers are that need to be pulled. But the thing that the appreciation I've gained is I also know where the levers are that no one's pulling. And I very much appreciated that. I have to get my weight time in. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. We'd like to have you pass through and shake all of our hands and give you a pin. >> Got a pin for you. >> Um I I think it is a clear example of the leadership of our district. when we hear um the level of involvement and understanding that our superintendent has um I I don't think we can take for granted the fact that he has a personal connection inside of every school and as a board member we often hear the things escalated that are going poorly and when in the course of my experiences with constituents it has gotten been to a point where Dr. Godfrey has met with a constituent, I have never not had someone come back to me and say, "Wow, he is impressive. I feel heard. I feel recognized. I feel like he acknowledged without defensiveness my concerns." And that is a critical skill for our district. We're so so thankful for you. Okay. Um, we board members, I'd love to ask your um agreement in we have a visitor who popped in a little after public comment. Um, our mayor of West Jordan, Dirk Burton, who would love to take just a minute and talk to us. Are you guys okay with that? Great. Mayor, would you join us at the pulpit? Thank you. I app shouldn't have touched that. There we go. So, Nikki, I think you were right that you can't take this superintendent for granted. >> Sorry you set that up. Hey, I just wanted to come here and first of all wish you a merry Christmas and tell you thank you for the letter that you wrote and signed to help support us in our long continued effort to get a rec center in West Jordan. We're hoping that that will actually happen. The county is making some adjustments things are using. So, we're still in limbo, but we're continuing to work at it. and your letter of support will be very beneficial in helping us do that. So, thank you for that. And I thought I'd also give you a brief update that the bridge over 70th South is making excellent progress. If you haven't had an opportunity to drive past there, drive past and see how that looks. That's been something that we've been working on for a lot of years and it's finally happening. Thank you for giving us a landing spot on that that we can make that land and make it go forward. So we appreciate that as well because when we work together we can accomplish great things. So thank you for being a good partner with the city when we try to take care of the same residents that you serve that we serve and we all do it all together. And as uh Dr. Godfrey says often, we have the same goals but different roles and I appreciate that. Thank you for what you do for us. Keep up the great work. Thank you >> so much. We appreciate you taking time to come out and we would love to support you um at any opportunity. So, let us know. And can I just add a thank you? >> Yeah. Yes. >> He would prefer a hat. Can we find um >> there you go. >> Can I just add a little thank you to West Jordan as on a personal note, a mom who has two new drivers. The ability for them to get to Copper Hills High School without having to drive over Mountain View has been such a piece of calm to me as a parent and it is so well used. I mean that is that was a great addition. We are thrilled to have that bridge over troubled highways that is so so beneficial and after that bridge went in that has been so well used and is doing so good. So thank you for doing that. We have a couple others that are planned a little bit further to the north that may not be beneficial to Copper Hills High School quite so much, but it will still alleviate some east west traffic. As anyone knows, even if you don't live in West Jordan, anywhere on the west side, you know, east west is a valuable corridor any place. And we're continuing to work on that and make improvements and this is just one of those that we did. So, so thank you for that. I appreciate that. >> Do you have any questions for me while I'm right here? late meeting. Anybody else have questions? >> Nope. Have a great holiday. We appreciate you. >> I will. And just so you know, I it wouldn't be me if I didn't say that Santa Claus doesn't have to pay to park his sled because it's on the house. Oh boy, we needed that. All right, let's move into committee reports and comments by board members. facilities committee I mentioned uh in study session met last Thursday. I'll just bring your attention to the minutes that are attached to board book if you're interested in uh coming up to speed on what on what on what happened. Can I speak to that? So, I'm a member of the facilities committee, but I can't be on the discussion for the closing of schools. Um, I don't like our process. I think it's right to bring in a a board member who's not on the facilities. Um, when we're when we make a decision to close a school, even before we make that public, they should be there. but they should not be there in place of me when we're just barely beginning to talk. And so I feel like I was left out of a very important process. We have not decided to close any of these schools. We haven't taken any action. And I just personally think the board member should be brought in when we're ready to make some considerations, not on the front end. That was a that was a topic of discussion when we were drafting this document and and there were some um tenured board members who had been through the process in the past and found value in it. I I wasn't speaking from a position of experience at the time. So I I just kind of had to rely on the experience of others. I'm not sure what the best solution is there. you said in our in our meeting earlier there's this can be ongoing that you've divided into three different kind of groups and stuff. So am I excluded from this forever? I don't get a voice in this process. So that's that's my frustration and am I the one that always is going to be sitting out? I think that we should as a committee and I'm a member of it go through it and decide some options and then invite the people who live in that area to then be a part of the process even before we bring it to the board but should not supersede our initial conversations. Just >> just to be clear, um both Miss Dean and Miss Barrow oversee schools that we discussed. So I wanted both of them there. And being the president or the chairman of the committee, I thought I should be there. That was the only reason why you were selected because the other other two had >> be ongoing. This is going to be an ongoing process, right? You even said it in our meeting before. So am I always the one that excluded out of the conversation >> and in this particular conversation? Yes. That that's how it would work out. >> And I would just plead to the board this is an assignment that I have. I should have a right to be in the initial discussions. And so that's my frustration here. >> So I feel like um there are some other ways to approach that. I when Bryce was my chair of facilities, we rotated. We took turns rotating out. But I do think our document, our trigger point document asked that we invite the board member who represents affected schools to the meeting. I'm curious if there are other board members who interest who are interested in changing that. We could also notice the meeting and let them all come. I'm fine with that, too. Noticing the meeting. I've I've heard that uh noticed meetings especially in this type of a discussion um potential boundary changes, school closures, potential school closures might might bring unnecessary anxiety and stress if they're if they're noticed, if they're public. I think I think that was one of the concerns there >> and and yeah, I I agree with Brian and I would rather change the trigger point document and have it only ever be the um facilities committee than to ever notice a meeting when it's the committee discussing things that could cause unnecessary um feelings in a community like panic or fear or anger, you know. So I that that are unwarranted. So I I I mean I I appreciate what the document is right now. It's a very new document even. But I that's just what I would like to say. I would rather change the document than to notice and broadcast these meetings. But I don't want to change the document. So, I I may have misspoken. I opened it up just to read exactly the wording. And really, all it says is that the facilities committee chair will contact the board member representing the area under consideration if that member is not on the facilities committee. So, it doesn't prescribe that anyone needs to step out. That was my mistake. Yeah, >> maybe maybe the document wasn't worded um according to what was understood that meaning to be because um when when we were talking about Aspen, I notified Bryce after the meeting was over and let him know what I just shared in our study session. you know, the the decision that we'd come to and Bryce's understand and he can speak to this if he'd like, but Bryce's understanding was I should have been invited to that meeting rather than you telling me after the fact. So, so maybe there's some ambigu excuse me, some ambiguity in the the wording of the document or some people understood it differently. >> Yeah. I don't mind stepping out, but my stepping out should be after I have full understanding and knowledge of where we're going. And that's my contention is I just want to be a part of that discussion of where we're going, what we want to do, some of our solutions, and then we should invite the board members who would affect and then we take it to the whole board is is what I would prefer. And I would say the same with Bryce that we should discuss that no, we're not going to do anything with Aspen. then invite Bryce into it. One of us can step out and and and then take it to the board. So they they're still in there, but they and the initial conversations really should be the facilities committee and we bring a recommendation until the affected board member and then we bring it to the whole board. Another option to consider is it's only one agenda item that that member would step out for. So I wonder if something to consider could be like you just step into the hallway and then come back. So you're a part of the meeting. It's not like I'm now no longer on facilities because someone is taking my place. This this particular item was the only item we discussed and it was an hour and a half. >> Okay. >> If not diff It would be frustrating to step out in the hallway and wait for an hour an hour and a half and then come back in. Well, you want to make a motion, Darl, that we >> The hard the hard balance what's what prompted all of this is we held conversations as facilities committee that the board member was not involved in. And what I learned is there are decisions that facilities committee members there are observations that the facilities committee members with their experience can make that the board member that represents that can't even make. But there are other observations that the board member who represents that can make that a facilities committee can't. There has to be a way for all of those voices to speak. I would never want Daryl to be left out on conversations where he can contribute in a valuable way, but I also would not want Lisa to be left out on conversations for schools that affect her. So, I would just hope facilities can find a way to allow him to speak and to allow the board member to also speak because both are very important. To deny to not allow Daryl's expertise and experience in a conversation would be a loss. To not allow Lisa, who represents that area, to have a voice would be a loss. It shouldn't be an eitheror. There's got to be a way that it can become an and >> could it be individual conversations outside of a committee meeting? A conversation ahead of it and then the committee discusses >> the wording in the pol in the in the guidelines doesn't say it has to be in a meeting. So you're correct. But then Bryce felt kind of left out because it was a phone call to him where maybe So all I'm saying is initially the the committee should come up with some solutions. Then they should invite those board members, give me give Bryce, give lease an opportunity to be in those discussions if they'd like to. It might take an extra meeting, but all that happens before we bring it to the board because I'm still in the dark of what you even talked about. I tried to read the notes. I I don't know what your solutions are, but it sounds like you've broken it down into different segments. So, this will happen over and over again throughout the year if we're going to discuss different schools. >> So, if Bryce had been contacted ahead of your meeting and you each had a chance to hear what he had to say individually, then you go into your meeting to discuss it, would that have solved the problem? I would feel I would feel like I needed to be part of the discussion, >> not just hey, let's get your opinion beforehand or after. Somehow I needed to be part of that conversation given the fact that that's a school in the area I represent. So having more say in a meeting with all board members wouldn't be enough. >> I wouldn't want to take the time. I don't know what the solution is, but I think I think the committee needs to have a voice and the board member who represents that school needs to have a voice prior to any public anything taken to the public >> or the board other board members. >> It should not come before the whole board before the committee hears it and the persons affected hear it. They should not be surprised in a board meeting. Does the committee have to be three people or can it be two? >> Well, I guess what I'm saying is if the facilities committee only had two people, then you could always invite a third and you wouldn't have the problem of four. >> Part of the problem this time was that there were two board members whose schools we were discussing. So those two board members needed to be there. For example, if if we had just been discussing schools that belonged to Lisa, I could have excused Aaron this time and Daryl and they could have alternated, but since both of them were their schools were being discussed, they needed to be there. So that >> that will probably be a common occurrence. >> We could make it not common. We could we could design it so that we only discussed one person's schools. That that might help. >> Or you hold a second meeting >> and that's all I'm proposing is that we have an initial meeting with the whole facilities committee then we go to other people that infect and then we would go to the board. But but every member of every committee should have an initial voice in the discussions that they're having. It would be hard it would be wrong to pull someone out of the finance committee who has that expertise in the finance committee and has that assignment and say sorry but you got to sit out of this initial discussion. I'll make a motion that we that we bring the enrollment considerations for growth document, the trigger document, uh, back onto the table in a future board meeting in the near future to discuss some ideas. We've we've shared a lot of ideas here, and I'm thinking it's going to require maybe some tweaks to that document. Second that. >> We have a motion and a a motion by Mr. Barnett, a second by Miss Wood. I'm sorry, Miss Barrow. You guys, it's late. That we bring back the trigger document to a future board meeting >> discussion. >> I'm okay with that, but I don't think the the policy the document as it's written now doesn't prohibit it. doesn't specify how to do it. And so I don't know if we have to have it specified. I really don't think we need to change the document. I think we need to change our practice. Um but I'm okay with I'll vote for that if you want to leave that on the table if you think the document needs to be changed, but I personally don't think it needs to be changed. Just the practice does. The only thing I could see tweaking on this document is perhaps giving examples of how the committee chair could proceed, right? Have an extra meeting, uh, something, you know, give examples because I know we don't want to put in strict rules to follow all the time because that doesn't fit every situation. But also I can see how line four is kind of vague as people are talking about how they interpret it. I interpreted it a totally different way. And so I think the only thing we could do possibly is give examples and then just be clear from year to year, from chair to chair that we need to be aware of all members. And I don't know >> what's weird is Bryce feels like he was left out of the process and I felt like I was left out of the process and we did the process two different ways. we flipped it and in both cases we felt left out. And so I'm not sure that one's right or wrong, but I don't know. I just wanted to voice that and I'll support whatever motion you want. >> I feel like this is situational and I'm not sure that we can update the document to cover each situation. And so I'm gonna be a no on that motion. Brian, did you make the motion because you want the support of a document to direct you going forward in navigating this? Like is that a supportive request? >> Primarily. Yeah. and and and there is a little bit of interpretation difference, you know, maybe we could just tighten up the language a little bit. It would be helpful for me. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I had assumed by the language that you would simply have a conversation with Bryce, not actually invite him to the meeting. That's how I understood the document. >> It's funny because when I read the document, that's how I understand it. But the conversation was what you remembered that I I think because I remembered it as well which is why I assumed it was in the document without taking the time to check >> maybe document it didn't quite capture the sentiment >> of what we were when we were discussing >> it did capture my sentiment because I haven't personally been through the schools in my area have not yet been impacted by a boundary change were that the case, I might feel very differently or if I had a history, I might be more assertive. But one more thought was that my interpretation of this was that people would be contacted by the committee chair if their schools were affected. And then also the reverse of that, having a committee member sit out, I also kind of assumed the chair would then fill in that committee member on what had been talked about. That was my thought process. I've only experienced this once. I've only been on facilities once, but that's how it worked then. We rotated who sat out. It's a different situation. Even the chair, I I stepped out as chair. >> Yep. >> I took my turn and stepped out. >> And then when we came back in, we got a recap. It It might feel redundant, but it worked in my opinion. Okay. So, we have a motion that we bring the um enrollment considerations document back. U all in favor of that motion say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> And any opposed? I'm opposed. So, that motion passes 6 to one. Uh with the nay going to Nikki George. Okay. that will be on a future agenda if will you make note of that? Thank you. >> Thank you. Sorry for that. >> Okay. Um other committee reports. Want to um thank Mike Anderson for coordinating our legislative brunches or breakfasts um and everyone who attended our three meetings that we had. I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the time with the legislators, getting to know them and what their priorities, concerns, etc. are, and an opportunity to partner with them on on those things that will impact our teachers, our students, and just our community as a whole. So, thank you to everybody. We will be meeting later this week. Uh the committee will be >> I'm just curious if anybody wanted to share anything about theirs. I I only got to go to one of three. So is anything that people feel like the group needs to hear? Okay, I'll go. So, um, one of the requests in the breakfast that I was in was that they would like our help in understanding specifics. So, we had pointed out a few specifics to them that they felt like were blind spots that they were very interested in actively working to resolve. And they they just mentioned that that kind of input is really useful and something that maybe we can think of as a board. You know, when something is um not sitting right with us, being able to come to them with a presentation of not just you should fix this, but here's an idea of a way to fix this seemed to be productive. To go along with that, I appreciate the work that went into the handouts because I know specifically one rep said, "I am going to have this on my desk during the session to help me keep seeing this." And I I also really appreciated um Mr. Larson and Dr. Anderson's expertise and being able to explain things to our reps um in ways that they could understand. And I I thought it was very interesting and I had not realized how much of the initial startup money for the school safety bill had gone to setting up the administration of that. And I think they were a little shocked. And so I appreciate the knowledge that um that you have and are able to share with our legislators because I realize they are very busy and they have a lot of things to track and so being able to deliver that good information um about public ed and Jordan school district specifically I think is very helpful for them. So thank you I I also Dr. Godfrey had really good information for them, too. Really? All three. >> Thought you got too many accolades tonight, so you didn't make the cut on that one. >> I'm just trying to keep you humble here. >> I was comfortable being left off that list. Um, thank you so much, Miss Wood, for your efforts in organizing that, refining it from meeting to meeting. I think well done. Thank you for that. Okay. Um, I have a couple of things. First of all, it has been the tradition of the board in years past to send a letter from the board to all of our employees. um as we go on holiday break um just an expression of gratitude and wellw wishes would we like to continue that tradition >> yes we will start working on it and send a draft to you if that's okay um and then I am have been serving on the committee to refine the board retreat I hate saying that phrase now and we had we have a few recommendations to bring to the board. Um I'll try to do this really quickly. Uh first of all, we were asked to rename this event to better represent what it really is. Um and as we really thought about the priorities, we thought about it's of it it as an opportunity to reflect on our goals, realign for the upcoming year and model the characteristics we asked our students to stri strive for through the portrait of a graduate. Um, and so our committee kind of went towards using those characteristics from portrait of a graduate to determine our agenda and activities. And so we have a couple of new titles to that end. Sorry, big introduction, but for you to consider. The first is our portrait of a board meeting. So um, a board reflection or a board year in review. preferences. If you need more time to process, I can send this to you as a document and you can give me >> This is a very, very, very important decision, you guys. This is really, really important. >> Can I throw a fourth option on there even? What about just calling it a board summit? Because retreat feels vacation-y, but a summit feels working. like it. >> That's great. >> Not that I dislike the others, but that's what was in my head. >> Uh then, um as we talked about timing for the meeting, it feels like if it's an opportunity to review the prior year, it's probably important that we continue to hold it near the end of the school year. So we are recommending or proposing June 12th or June 16th. >> June 12th or June 16th. We haven't thrown that date out to any any of our um employees either. So, >> both of those work for me. Daytime or evening? Actually, I should clarify. >> Daytime into evening into early evening. >> I do have a commitment on Friday at about 6:30 p.m. >> Yes. I I might have a conflict. I don't know. And it depends on if I'm still working then. Um but that's our training weeks that we are required to work. So I don't know that without knowing the days that I have with my work and whether or not I'm still going to work. I don't know if I can commit. >> So >> May 1st I have to go. >> Why don't I do this? um just percolate on this and we will send you a document that you can respond to. >> That'd be good. >> Okay. And then uh just a few things. We want this to be some a meeting that can be flexible, but we talked about creating a few essential elements for each of these meetings. So, one being a yearly service project that benefits students in our district. Um, partitioning out an opportunity to go to lunch off-campus so we have a place to kind of reconnect in a less formal setting. Um, doing a board self- evaluation every other year on the even year. and we have been doing some work with the USBA board self- evaluation that um we'd like to propose to you in the future. Um a check-in with goals set for that year and setting new goals for the next year aka our strategic plan and the agenda will be focused on those characteristics from portrait portrait of graduate. So we would just theme them each around curious thinkers, creative problem solvers, engaged citizens, empathetic communicators, and resilient lifelong learners, and responsible teammates. So that's a quick summary of where we're going. We won't make you make any decisions at 9:18, but um we'll send this document out to everybody and you can provide feedback and then we can hopefully finalize in January. Any other committee reports or comments? Oh, I'll just remind, sorry, put on my JLC hat for a minute. We have a JLC meeting this week. Um, if you are interested in attending, I can send you the Zoom link. So, just let me know if you would like that and I'll forward it over. And I I as I was doing my master board certification, one of the things for the third years was have you done a board self- evaluation and I could not answer yes. So, >> okay. Um, moving into topics for bulletin board. Last week we or last meeting we threw out several topic ideas. Um, I'm ju I'm just going to float this idea. I feel like the most time-sensitive are for us to report on the Midas Creek boundaries and um an update on our financial support or report. Are people comfortable if we prioritize those? And then maybe just an expression of wellw wishes for the new year. >> A financial update. Okay. >> Just we've we've had a lot of big financial moments. >> That's right. That's right. Okay. and then we can go back through if there's room we can start highlighting committees. Um, and I'll just float this to Sandy and her team if if you're in alignment. But I thought if we're going to highlight a committee, this is a great time of year for us to highlight government relations because we're heading into that legislative session and we'd like to keep it top of mind for our constituents. So, >> one happened to take a picture at any of their meetings. I did not. >> I left the meeting and went, "Oh, no. I'm so bad at that." >> He actually took a picture of all of us. >> Perfect. >> Remember, I don't know if I have that, but somebody took it. >> And and Nikki, I I think that that is great. and even um highlighting some of the different things that our board members will be doing during the session as far as like going up to the capital with the SPOS's and the um USBA day on the hill and that kind of thing. >> Okay, >> perfect. I'll I will ask her to include that if space permitting. >> Yeah, Dr. Anderson, did it look like you were about to say something? >> I was just I was just going to say I have some photos that we can we can share and and put in there. I can share them with Sandy and they can decide which which ones are most the best. >> Which board members are most photogenic and deserve to be in this newsletter? >> Um, that is the end of our uh business meeting agenda. uh we do need to pick back up study session. So we having come to the end of this agenda, we stand adjourned and then we'll pick back up after a brief break for study session. >> You are a trooper. Just say >> if you want transition You have to be Welcome back to the Jordan Board of Education study session. It is still Tuesday, December 9th, 2025. And we still have all board members present as well as our superintendent, associate superintendent, and business administrator. And we are excusing our board attorney this evening. We are going to pick back up with the tail end of agenda item 1B, a discussion on Aspen Elementary School boundaries. When we finished our conversation, the board had just voted to um do a deeper look into elementary schools, excuse me, in the southwest part of the valley. Um so we just wanted to come back to this one, recap next steps and who that assignment goes to. So we had we had just voted that are we making that assignment to staff or to facilities. >> I get to choose. Well, I was going to I assumed facilities because uh in our last facilities meeting um we had asked that Travis Hamlin be more involved in our meetings be a regular because we'd be looking at boundaries and student numbers. So, >> prior to this document that we generated, the facilities committee, my understanding was one of one of their primary concerns and and items had to do with facilities, hence the name. and and now we've been given kind of a a larger role in boundary change decisions. I'm previously I think a lot of a lot of the responsibility for discussing boundary changes rested with staff. I'm I'm a little uncomfortable as the as the chair taking on a larger role in boundary change discussions at the root level of the discussion like from ground zero starting those discussions in facilities. I I just don't think we have or I have enough bandwidth. Maybe it's just me. I would I would prefer letting staff do a lot of the leg work and then if the board wants to have facilities take a quick look at it before we bring it that's fine but I would I would prefer not to be brought in at ground zero on those. >> I agree with you and I think it's in keeping with what we've done with recent boundary discussions. staff took a deep dive when they were ready to present uh they brought it. So I'm I'm really comfortable with that approach that you guys bring it when you're ready maybe to facilities first bounce it off them and then we can bring it to the boardroom. I think the dynamic has changed. We've always done boundary changes because we have to. What change do we have to make? And now we're in a position where we can say, well, what could we change? Could we eliminate busing if we put this boundary here? Could we? And so I think what we're doing is we're granting staff permission to say the doors now wide open. What changes could we make? What might we do? We've never asked staff to do that. We've always asked staff to say what do we have to do? >> So I think the motion is really a change in mentality not how did elder how did um Anthony say it mentality versus me what was the other one >> mechanics mechanics >> I think the mentality needs to change. There are some schools that we could make some very significant changes that we don't have to make. Can we change the mentality and tell staff to start looking at like the Midas Creek? We didn't have to do that. That wasn't a crisis. But you know what? We can unify a school that's never been unified. we could eliminate busing because we've got we've been busing them beyond a school that they can they now have room into. So, I think it's more a matter of allowing staff to think creatively and come back and say, "Hey, now that we're looking at things we might do, here's something that we've always wanted to do but never been able to do." That's how I see the motion is staff be creative. Can we centralize busing? Can we eliminate some bus routes by changing some boundaries? That's that would be a great thing to do. >> I'd like to make a comment that's an and not a butt, but it might come out like it's a butt to what you said. I today want to avoid boundary changes that aren't absolutely necessary as much as possible. That may be a slight overstatement. I just want there to be a really strong argument for it because it takes so much time and resource and it is such a difficult thing that I'm not going to be eager to do another boundary change. If I'm being honest, I I would need to be persuaded. So, >> so why a >> and so that the and there is I love the idea of creativity. We got a problem. Let's solve it. But it better be a pretty big problem because it causes problems to change boundaries. >> Was Midas Creek a pretty big problem? >> Nope. >> Um I mean I voted for it. >> So I felt unifying was was worth a yes vote for me. >> So but you do you consider that a pretty big problem? Yeah, but eliminating a bus route, I don't know. I'd have to be persuaded that that's a huge benefit for the upheaval a boundary change creates. >> But what you're doing is by by making that stand is there's a whole lot of houses that we're building right now that are going to end up no matter what, they're going to end up at Oakleaf, but we have them zoned for Aspen. So, wouldn't it be less disruptive to make that change now? So, as we build those homes, they're going to go to the school they're going to end up going. That's what I'm saying is >> a lot of things like that that I would just like to consider and I don't need I don't have an agenda behind it. I don't have all I just know is there's some things that need to be fixed. Do they need to be fixed now? I don't know. But we ought to be discussing those. I I think boundary changes are hard for people, but so is school closures, but those are things that we have to make decisions and constantly be doing those or we get behind the eightballs and then all of a sudden we're like haveing to do it instead of preempting it ahead of time. >> Yeah. I mean, I guess like today balancing enrollments across schools, I would need to be persuaded that that is a worthy cause to say this elementary has 800 and this one has 950. Let's change a boundary to even it out. That's not >> So, you're okay? >> You're okay with nine portables at a school and the school next to it is not even at capacity and they don't have any portables. I mean, I would I would prefer trying to say I would prefer if our policy or a practice is six that that's what we stick to, but I'm just I'm just trying to put it out there that I'm I'm not eager. >> Yeah, I think your vote reflected that. >> So, I will put it out there, not to be contrary, but to say what is best for kids, what gives kids the best school experience. Is it necessary for kids to be going to lunch at 10:30, 10:45 when we have capacity to do otherwise? Because for an elementary student, that's a pretty long stretch not to eat food. Um um is my kid now thinking about food instead of class? Are what's the playground like? Do we get enough recess time? These are things that a strained school has to do because they have to. And we now have the opportunity to optimize experiences for children. And so above my own discomfort in hearing public comment and in trying to do something that is uncomfortable, I have to say first is the student experience. Next is the employee experience. So for me, I I'd like to hear the ideas and I I remember we had um a couple years ago, I think um as far as boundary changes, discussion about priorities like and I think it could be helpful for this particular board to have another discussion about what our priorities are because so like one of them was transportation, one of them and and I'm not saying that every board member agreed on all of these and I think that a couple meetings ago um Nikki was writing some priorities but um there were a couple a few that there was a majority of board members agreement on them and I think alignment was one of them. Transportation have it in that document that we've referenced a few times tonight. >> Okay. >> Um the enrollment document page three is potential boundary considerations. Number one was speeder alignment. Um, so I think I might have been being redundant when I went to the whiteboard. >> And obviously I need to be more familiar with the documents. Thank you, Nikki, for that. >> Exactly what Lisa just said is probably my frustration all around is I just don't know where we're going. Seems like two boundary changes had different reasons and needs and and I know that some of you don't need a a consolid consolidated agreement to what we're looking for better vision. That's fine. Um but I kind of want one. >> So I would love to have that conversation. And something that um in the recent boundary change discussions, something that um influenced me also was with um Midas Creek. >> A lot of the impetus for that boundary change was the community came to a board member with that desire. And so I I feel like that is a strong thing too. Like I I want our our community members, our stakeholders to feel empowered to come to us and we will we won't necessarily do the work, but we will get people to do the work and and then we will listen, you know. So I feel like that is an important thing too is when stakeholders come to board members with a desire. >> How do we get that on? Because people have come to me with that desire and it's taken forever to get us to the point where we can study it and people in my community want it. I worry about giving the perception that if I ask I'll get because I had a lot of community members over the course of the last five years come to me requesting relief at Sunset Ridge. They didn't get that request, but in in another request they did. And so it's a >> well it seems like the whole Midas Creek discussion started more than two years ago. It's been and so it's not like they immediately got it. And then even I think back at how was it a couple years ago when there were parents from Aspen Elementary and and we had some public comments today wanting the DLI program and and the school community council putting forth the effort. And so the school district did the um or the staff put together the survey and there was not the amount of support necessary to start the program there. So, so I feel like even if it it's not a guarantee that what the community or the the individuals or the group coming forward um with their ideas, it's not a guarantee that they're going to get what they want, but I feel like it is a guarantee that we will listen and consider what they are putting forth and and maybe eventually something will come to pass. But I think it is very important that they know we're listening because even even though the boundary change for with co with uh Copper Hills and Elkridge and Sunset Ridge, even though that did not pass, the effort was still put forth. And so hopefully people felt heard that, okay, we wanted this and the board did listen and put forth the effort and then they listen to I mean not everybody's going to be happy with every decision, but the board did listen and did put forth the effort, if that makes any sense. even though it didn't pass, there was still a lot of effort and time involved. So, I I just feel like that is an important part >> when the community brings the idea. >> I have a question for the board. We recently adopted this document, the um enrollment considerations document. In that document, we reference a decision that the board in September of 2020 approved a list of boundary considerations. Are these still considerations that we value? I mean, we've adopted them, but did we take enough time to review? It's number four on page three. Endeavor to accommodate high growth areas and balance long-term enrollment. Endeavor to create boundaries that consider alignment of feeder systems. Consider boundaries that are impacted by major traffic corridors and other natural barriers. Consider boundary impacts on transportation services. And consider boundary impacts that cross between municipal lines. >> Can you share with me? Yeah, it's on board book under um documents and it is oh actually it's links and it is called enrollment considerations for growth. >> I we really need to change that to just enrollment considerations because I keep not finding it because I'm like oh not growth. Can I add something there? In the in the past and as I said earlier, this is not an argument doing things one way or another. In the past, that list, that type of list is what we consulted when we had to make a boundary change. when a boundary changed, when we said we've got capacity for 1,200 middle school kids with the portables and we've got 1300 coming. We absolutely have to make a change. Then once we made the change, this is what we considered when we made that change. Not is there anywhere where we haven't aligned the boundary? Okay, let's make that change. Is there anywhere there where where they're crossing a busy road? Okay, let's make that change. It's we have to make a change. So when we do it, let's make sure that we're considering these things. >> So I think your point's well taken. What What is this list? Is this a list of things that we're trying to accomplish or is it a list to consider once we've decided that we're making a boundary change? >> That's where I think I'm struggling is because we're making the decision for a different reason. And so I feel a little bit I'm just not I don't feel unity with the board in the decision. And that's what's frustrating me. But it's probably my more because we're doing it different, right? We're doing it for different reasons. And so I'm just having a hard time adjusting to that. >> Converted territory. >> One of the ways where your experience is actually hurting you. >> Yeah. >> And and the thing too is um consensus is not necessary for unity. even even it when it's a 34 vote or a two five vote that does not mean that there's not unity and we all get to choose. So >> I will say when when I read this document I thought of it in the latter which is when we decide a boundary change here's what what we value or what we want to look at. I I hadn't read it as, oh, this might trigger a conversation about changing a boundary >> and President George, we did change the link name. It's just enrollment considerations. >> Thank you. >> Be careful what I mention in passing. You guys are too responsive. Thank you. So I think these are things for us to percolate on. I don't know that we have to come to a decision tonight, but we voted in our business meeting to revisit this document. And so maybe we let these ideas kind of settle and marinate and come back to it during that agenda item. >> Yeah. And and the thing too is in number two where it says district administration may consider right and I think this has already been brought up. I feel like that's when the administration if they see, oh, transportation is costing a lot more than it needs to to this school or we anyway I I feel like administration can bring to us the anyway potential boundary changes. It is not lost on me that number one says the board may request boundary considerations at any time. I think that's been something that's different for us. We haven't always said that, but when this was approved, that was the will of the board. Okay. Is everyone comfortable moving on at this point in the conversation? So, um, Dr. Godfrey, do you feel comfortable with next steps in terms of the study on the southwest area elementary schools? Okay, perfect. All right, let's move into our last agenda item 1C, procedures for policy review. Mr. Dumpford, >> I can be quick. I have a presentation in which I'd like to include a plea. I have an apology and then I have an ask and the ask is the easiest of the three. So let me make my presentation. I would submit to the board. I would plead with the board that you rethink what it what your contribution looks like. That being a board member is more than coming prepared to a board meeting having a discussion and then voting on things. I think that concept predominantly is what's in our head. That's what it means to be a board member. I come prepared. I have a discussion and I vote. Would like to submit to you that one of the most important ways you govern is through policy. That you set and make sure that the policies reflect your personal desires for the the the the district. And the reason I want to say that is a couple things. Number one, we have a chief executive officer who runs the district under the direction of the board. There is absolutely no way that what we do in board meeting could govern every decision he makes. He relies heavily on the policies that we have set, probably more so than any board member realizes. If we think we govern in board meeting and that's how the go that's how the the school district runs, I think you would be surprised to find how much he takes direction from the policies that have been set. It is my observation that most board members do not make policy a high priority. They're not very familiar with policy. They don't read them often and they don't consult the policy when there's an issue. And I'm my plea to you is that that change that we all begin to recognize that my most important contribution other than hiring a superintendent and a business administrator is to make sure that this district has the policies in place that conform to my priorities. Let me read a few lines from our policies from GP 100. The determination of policy is the responsibility and the prerogative of the board. That is where you exercise more of your responsibility as a board member than anything you do. Setting the policy for all to to follow. Another one is in GP 101. Although the board can change its govern process policy at any time, it will observe them scrupulously while they are in force. We can change any policy we want, but until it's changed, we have a duty to scrupulously follow the policy. The other thing I want to point out is in BSC I I'm this is BSC 203. I want to point out that this is where we govern. This is where we set the parameters of how the superintendent follow receives his instruction. The board will develop policies instructing the superintendent to achieve certain results for certain recipients at a specific time. Those are ENS policies. In other words, here's what you must do. B. The board will develop policies which limit the latitude the superintendent may exercise in choosing the organizational means. Here is the fence you cannot cross. No going outside of this fence. No one in the district goes outside this fence. Here's what you have to do. Ends policies. Here's what you cannot do. Executive limitations policies as long as he operates in that oper in that room. As long as he accomplishes what we've told him we he has to do and stays within the boundary of what he cannot do. Ready? As long as the superintendent uses any reasonable interpretation of the board's ends and executive limitations policies, the specific action or instruction of the board, the superintendent is authorized to establish all further policies and procedures, make all decisions, establish all practices, and develop all activities. We set a boundary. Give him a list of here's what you have to do and then everything else you have the you interpret. Do you see the important of those the importance of those boundaries? As long as any particular ends or executive limitations policies are in place, the board will respect and support the superintendent's choices. So, if there's something you don't like going on in the district, don't complain. Change the policy and then the superintendent will respond. He is absolutely a master at owning his responsibility. He says, "The board doesn't want me to cross this line. I won't. The board wants me to do that. I will." And then we leave everything else to him. That's the power of policy. Therefore, I would suggest my plea to you is that each member of this board owns the policies that we have set. If nothing else, at least the board policies, I know them. I know what they say. And I agree. This is where I govern. I govern in the setting of policy. If there's something in there, I don't like this, I'm uncomfortable with this, then you as a board member have the every right, it is your responsibility and your prerogative to change the policy and then once the boundaries are set, we trust the superintendent will operate within those boundaries. So my plea is to make policy governance which is the GP in GP. Make policy governance a a major part of your board work that I will know the policies that we have set forth for the superintendent to follow. Now my apology. Um we have in the past six years on numerous occasions established an ad hoc committee to write a new policy. I have been part of several of those. Uh we rewrote D200. We rewrote the sensitive materials. We have had ad hoc committees write policy. Um, we have also had a tradition. Well, I'll get to that in a minute. Maybe that maybe I'll save that. Therefore, when Nikki started her presidency and had a vision of a policy committee, it was my understanding that the policy committee would take the place of those ad hoc committees to write policy. And so I have kind of been waiting for a need to write a policy and then we would jump into action and start writing the policy. That was my interpretation as the chairman of that committee. Nikki her vision for the policy of the committee was that they would be constantly reviewing the policies and bring to us any recommended changes that we saw as we reviewed the policies. So I am apologizing to the board for the miss that understanding. We as a policy committee have just been waiting for the assignment to write another policy and Nikki's been waiting for us to well what policies did you want to us to review and so we have missed each other and I take full responsibility for that apologize to her and to the board now here's my ask according to our policy Nikki has the respons let me read from GP 105 which is pre the board president's responsibilities. Nikki has a responsibility. This is GP 105B4. The president in collaboration with the second vice president is responsible for the creation of an annual policy review calendar. An annual policy review calendar. On this date, we review that policy. On this date, we review that policy. on that's a calendar. We are supposed to have a policy review calendar which is derived from the board approved calendar. Nikki has asked that we help her with that responsibility and that we approve an annual policy review calendar. our duty if you'll turn to 108 GP 108 here is our responsibility GP 108F the board will conduct a review of governance process board superintendent connection executive limitation policies monthly the review will serve two purposes to conduct board assessment by reviewing board activity and adherence to GP and BSC policies as well as to examine policies per possible revision. The board president will post to GP BSC and EL policies to be reviewed at the respective meetings on the annual calendar. In other words, we have two responsibilities. A, are we following our policy? And B, do we need to change any policy? That needs to be an ongoing question we ask. So Nikki's question is how do we as a board want to proceed with the review of policy? Option number one is we can go back to Nikki's vision of well, we'll probably do that either way, but Nikki's vision of the policy review committee will take the assignment to read over policies and come to the board when they think a policy needs to be revised. B, we regularly schedule policies to be reviewed at every meeting. When I started on the board, we would review three or four policies at every single study session. Here are the three policies we're reviewing. The idea was you need to read them on your own and come prepared if you were uncomfortable with anything and then we discuss a possible revision. It went really simple. Does anyone want to make any revisions? No. Okay, move on. And then when one no I'm really uncomfortable with this then we discussed it. So it can be a very quick nope I've read all the policies I don't want to make any changes done but it would give the board members an opportunity to review every single policy. We did both board policies and administrative policies. It takes about a year to go through all of them. So the question is how involved do you as a board member want to be in policy review? Do you want that to be a regular item at our study session where we review policies or would you like the bulk of that responsibility to be given to the policy committee? We will meet we'll take that assignment where we review X number every week, every month and then come where we think one needs to be addressed. That's the question. Do we want to do it as a group or should we have the committee do it and then propose when a policy needs to be changed? I would say no matter which you choose, I would hope you would take it upon yourself to be more familiar with policy to make sure that that policies reflect your desires and pol and your preferences, your desire for how this school district is governed. So that's the question on the table. >> Okay. I would like to um give my thoughts on that question. I would like the policy committee to meet um and systematically review policy. And I like this policy review schedule because I feel like there are a lot more policies than these ones that the policy review committee could be looking at. And I think that this I think that this does not these do not have to be huge agenda items. It's just something we can all be prepared um having read them and if maybe somebody could give a gem from one of the policies during the study session, something they found interesting. It doesn't have to be every bit of the policy. Um so I think both. Yeah, I I tend to agree. Our schedule that is attached to GP 108 is great, but it's not um inclusive of all of our policy. So, I like the idea of the board coming prepared to discuss the items that are on that schedule, but I think our policy review committee would their time would be better spent on the policy outside of that schedule. So >> outside. >> So for example, we had talked about our appendix items needed an update or if we're looking at um I don't let me well and like none of the AA policies are included on here. I mean, there are policies that are not included on this list. That could be the purview of the policy committee because honestly, I do like repeating the same policies every year, going through these same ones every year personally because they're the most pertinent to our work in the boardroom. But just looking at the others, I that's what I was trying to say. Lisa was far more concise. >> Oh, thank you. And and I think that if so this has was um begin April 2018. So this is 7 years old. So I think that it is possible there could be policies on this schedule that >> clean it up >> that we would want and and you know what that could possibly be one of the first things that the policy committee does is looks at these policies on here and decides hey these ones we want but let's switch this one you if if that makes any sense. I don't know, but I think it might be a it could be great for the start of the new year or like February, March sometime and then um to have a new schedule brought forth by the policy committee or the same schedule. >> Okay. So, let me let go ahead. Sorry. So, I think this was created, this policy committee was created because we started looking at other districts and wondered why our board meetings are so super long. So, we've done away with some things that we used to always do. We've talked about it earlier about having different department heads come and tell what they're doing. This is another thing that we kind of wanted to do is we wanted to reduce our meeting by having a committee because a lot of districts do this committee review those policies and bring them forward where we've always been a board very interested in writing every word. That was my understanding why we changed it um to streamline a little our meetings and it was worked cuz I mean we've canceled the meeting because we didn't need it because we've taken some of those layers off. So, do we want to add those layers back on? That's the question because part of that is means that we're not going to bed anytime early. So, I don't know the answer, but I just want to remind I think that's our journey is we started looking at our meetings and they were so long. I mean, you remember we were getting out midnight was a good time to get out. And so, if we're adding all this back in, now all of a sudden we're kind of doing what we tried to undo. I don't know the answer, but >> I have two questions. Will we have to change this policy if we don't proceed? Because it says the board monthly. It doesn't say a committee. >> We are not following following the policy. >> So, we would have to change this policy if we don't proceed as you've recommended. My I guess that wasn't a question. That was a statement. This is a question. Can you tell me what it looked like previously to assess the board's adherence to policies? How does that play out in a board meeting? >> Just like it has here. Someone would say, "Can I point out something in a policy that we're not doing like you just did?" >> And then the question is, do we adjust our practice to match our policy? Do we match adjust our policy to match our practice? we've got a discrepancy in what we're doing and what we're supposed to be doing. Which one needs to change? And then that led to a board discussion. Sometimes we changed our practice. Sometimes we changed our policy. I would point out even on this policy, we by policy should be holding community connection activities, town hall meetings, board assessment, um board and staff training. So, I do think that revisiting and asking the question that Bryce just said makes a lot of sense because maybe we don't want to do town halls anymore. Nobody came to Barrett University, whatever. But right now, we're not following our own policy. And and honestly, I feel like that is a big purpose of the policy committee to find those discrepancies and bring recommendations to the board >> or for us to say, "I found a discrepancy. Will you look at it?" >> If you'll own that, I own the responsibility to know the policies better. And it would I would love it if a board member said, "Hey, I found a discrepancy between our practice and our policy." >> If we add in cuz I saw this list in the schedule here, but if we add in the other policies, how many are we talking about? >> Oh, I counted them once. >> I did too. >> Is 198 way. >> Okay. So, under 200. >> Just under. Okay. I when we were at a executive committee training with USBA and it was like they were saying they were in the 500s. I was like what? So I went through and counted ours and we were significantly lower than most with the number of policies we have which >> maybe ours are longer and they're more comprehensive. >> It could be. >> And that's something too looking at things that can be simplified in policy. I love it when policies are shortened. >> Well, if there's one thing we learn from education elements, it's that policy isn't the right place to be prescriptive, right? It's that we we put forth the ideas and then we we narrow that down, not necessarily inside a policy. And I do like how um each time they're it's like two or three um policies per month. And and some of these policies are very short. Some of them are one paragraph or two paragraphs. Most of them aren't more than two pages. So I mean >> some weeks some board meetings the discussion took five minutes to check off three or four. some weeks or some board meetings the discussion took over an hour. >> I would like to proceed in adding these to our meeting every month to be with policy and if through that experience I want to change this policy I'll tell the committee. So, as I'm hearing this, you would like the policy committee to revamp this schedule to include what we consider essential policies the board to review annually. You would like the policy to own the policy committee to own the responsibility to identify discrepancies between our our practice and our policies and bring them to the board. You would like the policy committee to review non-scheduled policies on a regular basis to make sure that we're following and or whether or not any of them need to be um changed. that you would like to adhere to a monthly policy review schedule that we follow three or three or every study session there would be three or four policies that the come before the board as to whether or not they need to be changed. >> Well, sometimes there's only two. >> Well, it's going to be revamped and who knows what it will end up being. >> So, do I understand that correctly? So the policy committee is going to revamp the schedule, own the rest of the policies not on the schedule, accept the responsibility to identify where our pol our practice and our policies don't match, but that we will have a regular scheduled policy review moment in every study session. My preference would be kind along the lines of what Daryl was saying, not to reintroduce that again, but to change the policy to be in line with our practice with the caveat that we all step up and and honor Bryce's plea to become more policy literate as a board. Um, you know, I if I if I honored Bryce's plea and I became more literate with our policies, at least the the board policies, I would feel like reviewing them would be a waste of my time in in a public meeting. Maybe there's and and I don't know, maybe Bryce feels this way because he's maybe the most literate of all of us on policy. And so when we review policy, he's I don't want to put words in his mouth, but maybe he gets a little bored because he's already read that. He's fine with it. He doesn't have any questions about it. And if we were all like that, at least a little bit more, then we wouldn't even need to review them publicly and take up public time and take up decision time. That's probably where I'm leaning. Yeah, >> I I feel like it's possibly also something that the public could be interested in and it would um make us more accountable to the people that we represent when they hear us talking about how we are supposed to fill our duties as um elected members of the board of education. I I think it could strengthen trust in in this board also to hear us discussing um or or just bringing up what is expected of us in a public meeting. So I mentioned this earlier maybe um this could work is once a quarter we take one of our study sessions we bring in some people from different departments and we take some time to review some essential policies and have that be kind of different we if we have to do a a topic because of the urgency we'll use do that but I think any good person has some professional development and I think understanding What I think that's all training, right? Bringing in key players who we need to listen to to make decisions and understanding our guidelines through the policies is in my opinion maybe training that we should be having ongoing that we're kind of maybe leaving out. But instead of adding it to each meeting, maybe if we could do it quarterly and I'd probably even place them in certain months like January or whatever and at least try it once and see. But I'm not sure I want to go back to every meeting and I'm not sure I want to leave them out al together. What if we >> like to like to make a motion that all seven of us commit to reading everything in board policies link before the end of January 2026 >> motion >> that that was a motion >> I don't see that as I mean you can make it I guess but the motion. >> Um, >> I'd like to discuss this just, you know, make a couple more comments. We could compromise and not go every meeting, but just once a month, that is what the policy says, not twice a month, but monthly. And the way I view it is if we look at three policies and we have no problem, it's over fast. If we have suggestions, there's reason we should be discussing it. And we don't have to go adnauseium. We could give a high level of the concern and give it back to the committee to rewrite it. We don't have to rewrite it in our meeting. And maybe that would keep it from going too long. >> Becomes an agenda item. >> Yeah. Rewrite it. We'll bring it back for discussion. Bring us a new draft. I I like the idea of the schedule and having the policy review committee revamp it, update it because I see that as a homework assignment, right? I am in charge of these things. I'm going to read them. I'm going to make notes and come and if I have something to say, I will say it. Um, I do want to read them all first. I think I should read them first. Uh, as Mr. Barnett challenged us to. Um, but I like the idea of a schedule. I didn't know the schedule was here. And also, I had assumed that we were supposed to that the schedule would include all of the policies. So then I was surprised. I was like, wait, oh, these are just the board policies, which makes sense because we should be reviewing our own policies. Um, but I do also want to visit and the all of the policies because sometimes people bring them up and to us and think that they have fine flaws. And so I think that those are things we should also be looking at. And I don't know, that's just a jumble of thoughts I've been having. All right. So the policy committee is going to revamp the schedule um include or up will revamp update. We will accept the responsibility to go through the the policies that are not on the schedule and we will propose to the executive committee frequent board meeting agenda items where policy is reviewed on a regular basis. What that looks like is to be determined, but we'll make a recommendation saying here's how we recommend mo moving through the policy review. But I I would echo Mr. Barnett. It is up to every board member to follow the schedule whether it's on the agenda or not. This month, I'm going to review these policies. Whether they come up in board meeting or not, I commit to review these policies because it's assumed that you're okay with the policy and they reflect how you want this district governed. Does that sound like a plan? >> Yes. Without a second on the motion, I'm going to commit to you, Bryce, that I will take your advice and read through all the board policies. >> I'll see your commitment and raise it to the AA policy. >> Yeah, just so you know, I know you probably all access them in HTML format. I do have them in PDF format. Every year, I ask for a clean copy and I put them in a PDF format. I mark them up. the end of the year, I ask for a clean copy and I try every time we update a policy, I ask Roxan to send me the updated policy. So, if you would like a PDF version for you to take notes on, I would be happy to provide that for each one of you. >> Yes. >> We get training on how to use your pen. >> I would be happy to show you how to use GoodNotes or anything like that. Okay. It is my practice. Roxanna and I kind of have an arrangement. Every year in January, she sends me the PDF versions. I clean them up into a notebook format. After I've cleaned them up, I will send each one of you a copy. I find it helpful to jot notes, which you can't do in the HTML version. So, I will accept that responsibility. The committee will accept our responsibility to do those things and then we will make recommendations to executive committee as to how often it's on a board agenda. >> Did she send you just the board policies? >> No, all of them. Administrative and board. Yeah, you I've got all the policies right here. What I do is I go through I don't know if you use um outlines so I can jump right to a policy and they all have my notes on it. Okay, I'm done. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, we've reached the end of our agenda. We do have some close session items. Um so I'll take a motion. I move that we go into close session for character and competence of individuals property potential litigation negotiations andor security. >> Second. >> We have a motion by Miss Dean, a second by Miss Wood that we go into close session and we will do a roll call vote. Miss Dean, >> yes. >> Wood, >> yes. >> Dr. Robinson, >> yes. >> Miss Barrow, >> yes. >> Mr. Dunford, >> yes. >> Mr. Barnett, >> yes. >> I am also a yes. We are adjourned from study session and are now in close session. >> Merry Christmas everyone. >> Merry Christmas >> and to all a good night.