Good afternoon everyone. I welcome you to the January 13th study session of the board of education for Jordan School District. Um, our illustrious leader, Nikki George, has been rearended on her way to this meeting [snorts] and is sorting out that issue and has asked that I conduct until she gets here, which should be shortened shortly. [clears throat] My name is Bryce Dunford and I welcome all of you to the Jordan Academy for Technology and Careers South Building. Uh we are joined today with all all other seven members of the board. Our superintendent, our associate superintendent, our business administrator, and our legal counsel. Welcome. It's a beautiful day today. We are going to jump into our agenda. Our first item on the agenda is a gifted and talented presentation. We welcome to the table Mrs. Carolyn Goff, our administrator of teaching and learning, and Rebecca Smith, the gifted and talented consultant. This is anformational item for board members. This is to kind of have you understand our gifted and talented program. So feel free to ask any clarifying questions you have after their presentation, but no action is anticipated on this item. So take it away. Uh if I may, I'd like to jump in and just thank uh uh Rebecca Smith and for all of her work and Carolyn Goff and all of the folks in uh teaching and learning for all the prep they've done on this. Uh we traveled to the uh national conference on gifted education and it was really really worthwhile. We had some principles with us and some of our specialists and uh I'm excited for this presentation today. As Mr. Dunford indicated, this is a presentation that really accomplishes three things. One is we're required to report on how resources have been used for gifted and talented education resources that we receive from the state. Number two, the board last time we presented on gifted and talented education asked us to come back with some ideas for what we could do next. And number three, the board has asked generally for information about what our departments are working on so that when bids come forward or other things are happening, you have some context for that. So, this is the first in what will be an ongoing series of presentations about what we're up to essentially. And uh I do want to give a little bit of a preview. Um we have when we talk toward the end about some of the ideas on how we can expand gifted and talented education, there are a lot of really good things happening that we can build on. You're going to hear about how we are identifying students currently and how we are missing some of those students. Sorry. You're going to find some surprising numbers, I think, of both the number of students we're missing despite having good programs and great people in place, but also um the level of giftedness that we are not serving. Um and there are sorry um some damaging myths around gifted education. Uh I'll give an example. We celebrate um athletic achievement. But sometimes we are shy about celebrating when someone is much better than most people at academic [clears throat] things. Or we think that um having somebody gifted in a class will help elevate the rest of the class automatically or that having a gifted child teach someone will help them learn more. There are or or that having good grades or having a high IQ are the ways that we define giftedness. There are just lots of myths that um gifted kids will be fine if we don't provide additional services or or they'll they'll find their way. and and I'm sorry to be emotional about it, but uh it's it was um particularly impactful to see these numbers. Um but it's also been very impactful to see the great things that we have going on. I've met personally with our school-based specialists, with our district specialists, uh spent time with them at the conference, and I'm very impressed with, as I've mentioned previously, the mindset and the mechanics that are in place to help serve gifted students. So, we have great things we can build on, and you're going to get some really good information today. We have uh uh prepared this we like I did the work but we we have a presentation today that will take um a few minutes but we are open to as long as you want to talk about this or whatever you want to reschedu. Um I think it's it's a it's good timing uh [snorts] since we were just at the conference and since we're on the cusp of budget decisions in the spring. So, uh, I'm really excited at the opportunities and I'm really grateful for the work that teaching and learning is doing and Rebecca Smith specifically and all of her folks. So, anyway, with no further ado, uh, take it away. >> Thank you so much, Dr. Godfrey. >> As Dr. Godfrey said, we met with you last May, and in this slideshow, I have the slides from that presentation linked. In that slideshow, we talked about the things that gifted and talented um programming does in Jordan School District and then also how we use the grant that we get from USB. And I've also included a link to an updated grant for the 2526 school year. It's almost identical to the 2425 school year, but um I did make a new sheet there and made a few adjustments there. And as Dr. Dr. Godfrey said there was only question of that meeting back in May was how do we expand gifted and talented services in Jordan school district and of course we'd like to make note that um everything that we do is aligned with portrait of a graduate. We were very excited to when portrait of the graduate came out and the strategic plan because it aligns with so many of the goals and objectives in gifted and talented education. uh most ex most especially on opportunities for every learner. There's the impact metric of increased opportunities for advanced learner and then the strategic objective about having more opportunities in every school for advanced learners. Um I've always thought of gifted and talented education the objectives and goals kind of like looking through a pair of glasses. And if you have both eyes calibrated just right then your vision is clear and you can do a lot with that good vision. And part of that is to promote um advanced learning for all students and to have all students grow and to think critically and creatively and also to foster opportunities for all students for talent development and to explore different avenues with those talents and have opportunities to um not only explore but to excel in those talents. And then there's also a portion of our population that are outliers who need a little bit of extra something else to continue to stay learning and engaged in the process. We want students who are in our seats to have a year of growth whatever that might mean for them. [snorts] And of course with that objective comes identifi identifying those students for those options. So, as you know, several years ago, we began doing a universal testing with the cognitive abilities test in sixth grade. This is these are the results from this year. And so, you see that black circle up at the top that just indicates that this was the results from this year. Uh we tested a little over 4,000 students. And because our sample set is so large, we follow that bell curve. Um but because of our demographics, we skew a little bit to the right there. And um with that said just um in the five the top of the uh the fifth day nine the around the 50th percentile that's where we would expect a child to be at this age and at this grade. So for the purposes of this conversation we will focus on these last two stay nines in the eth and the ninth day nine. This is the 89th through the 99th percentile. So in those stay nines in the ninth day nine we had 231 students test in that stay nine. Of that 231 students 45 students are currently in the Alps program and 186 students are everywhere else in our district. In the 89th to the 95th percentile 26 students are in the Alps program and 296 students are everywhere else in our school district. Now, we did use this information to invite students to the middle school Alps program. And so, um, the numbers for middle school that were being served in Alps would be higher than that in elementary school, but this shows the elementary numbers. And so, that's the the main target of our conversation tonight is elementary, though we will also speak of secondary. Um, this is the seventh year that we've done this. And we can say with confidence, especially with data over time, that this is would be duplicated in every single grade. Um, again, these students were in kindergarten the first year we did this. Now they're in sixth grade. And we can and our data has um stayed static over time as well. And we have all that data on record. Um, I looked carefully at the students in that in the eth and the ninth day. and I sorted them by school. And every single school, every single elementary school in Jordan district is represented in the eighth and the ninth days except for Ridge View because River Ridge View only has kindergarten through third grade, but every other school is represented in that data. These students are the students who are in the 99th percentile and this is a nationally normed assessment. And so this would be in the top 1% of all students that age across the nation. We had 91 in the 99th percentile. We have more in the ninth state because it goes the 96th through the 99th day 99th percentile. Um but this gives you an idea of what that looks like uh across the schools. The schools that are pink, blue, and green are the ALP schools. And so we would imagine that we would have a higher number of students in that 99th percentile there. But that's only twothirds of the students that are represented in this table. All the other students are across our district in all the other schools. Um I worry I'm an educator first and foremost. This is where I might tear up a bit. And I worry about all students and we and as I said that's the first part of that um that vision of the eyeglass is we want to promote the very best education for every student. Um there are some students that I do have particular concerns for um the twice exceptional students and for those of you who may not be aware of that term twice exceptional means that there is a dual exceptionality. A student can be very very bright but also have a learning disability like dyslexia or disgraphia. A student can be very bright but also have autism, be on the autism spectrum or have ADHD or have other types of challenges. And with a twice exceptional child, the abilities can mask a disability. And a disability can mask an ability. And really both need to be recognized and serviced and um and um addressed in order for that child to have optimal growth. And sometimes those students can be lost in the mix of abilities and disabilities. Um, another uh population that I worry a lot about are underrepresented populations. Um, we have uh those that would be students from poverty or students from um backgrounds that aren't in the the mainstream. That would be our ML students. And um a lot of times I've well I've been in this position for a long time. I've been working in the GT world for a long time and I've had a lot of fair share of eye rolls and snarky comments about why GT GT doesn't have a place in education and I al I al often think I wish they knew how much we worry about equal representation at the national conference so many I'd say close to a third or half of the presentations have a focus on underrepresented populations and what we can do to close the gaps and equal the And so it's something that we care about very much in this field. And um in Jordan School District, one of the things that we do to help with this is we uh translate all of our advertisement into Spanish. We also work with Michelle Love Day's group and we have translators, live translators at many of our um parent meetings. And uh once we get that KOAT data that I just shared with you, we also look at it through a different metric that is meant to identify um multil- language learners. And then we make personal outreach to those families. And we do that with a letter, with a phone call, um again with um parent meetings, with translators. We really make an effort to do what we can to help serve that population. And it's always our aim and our objective to close the gaps and to serve populations that may be underrepresented in whatever way. Another population that I worry about are those students at the very tippy top, those students with extreme high abilities. Our systems are set up that we can help students who are two and three grade levels below with their reading or with their math. We have a special education system that is very adept at identifying and addressing the needs of those students. But those students who are reading two or three grade levels above or doing math two or three levels two or three grade levels above and are ready for more there, they often run into obstacles just because our school system isn't quite set up to accommodate all those needs and to address all those needs. And sometimes parents can run into some obstacles when they're looking for um ways to address those needs. And then of course sometimes we have these three categories all in one. We have an underrepresented ch um student who's also tric exceptional and also very high extreme ability or any combination of the three. And so those are students who just um keep me up keep me up at night sometimes and and students that I think about and and I'm always thinking about how we can how we can help and and how we can um close those gaps. So, with that said, um it begs all of that, all of those slides beg the question of how do we serve the greatest number of students at the greatest number of locations because we know that parents primarily would like services at their own location so that they don't have to worry about transportation so that it works with the busyiness of life that we have. And so, how can we serve the greatest number of students at the greatest number of locations? Um, this is some as I've thought about this for many years, this is one of the things that I've thought about the importance of a a continuum of services and how important each part of this is. And so the first part would be high quality instruction for all students. As I said, that's the number one goal for all of education. We want all students to have all these opportunities. And then to have all staff members on board to that's just what we do in Jordan School District. We serve the needs of the complete spectrum of educational of educational needs. So we we serve that complete spectrum and everyone has the same mindset that we um are aware of and that we want to serve students of all abilities and we do that primarily through that fourth PLC question. What do we do when they already know it? And the RTI time that also can be used for students who are ready for more. um the multi-tered support system that we hear a lot about that one also is developed for all students and the universal design for learning and then of course professional development is needed in all of the above and for all the parties who are serving those students and then there's support personnel like myself and like the teacher specialists and um others who work uh teacher maybe even just teacher advocates but support personnel whose primary focus is to help with meeting the needs of that um section of our population and then of course enrichment via that talent exposure and development. We've talked about that and the ability to to do that is largely dependent on the support personnel that we have and then universal identification that could be formally like through the cognitive abilities test that we shared tonight or informally at the school. But we sure hope and aim to have every child's needs carefully looked at and then also carefully met. And then of course we would need specialized options for those outlying students. That might be the Alps program, might be another type of specialty school, might be um an advancement in a like a grade acceleration for certain students for whom that would be the best option or a subject acceleration as well. So the fir the first four that I have in the circle right now, those are systemic pieces in in our school district that are already in place that could be bolstered and fostered, but they're already there and wouldn't require any other additional resources, but just a focus. And as Dr. Godfrey said, a a mind shift as well. There's that mind shift and then also the mechanics. Um the second circle that I have here now this is where we do need the extra resources in order to provide or the um extra resource to provide more resources for the students. So this is our current setup um at the district level in teaching and learning. We have a consultant myself. We have a elementary teacher specialist that's currently vacant and we have a teach a secondary teacher specialist. And then we do the universal testing in sixth grade going into seventh grade. We have the two sightbased specialists that the board approved several years ago. One of them is working full-time at Jordan Ridge. The other is working halftime at both Bastion and Westville. And then we have three Alps programs in the elementary level and three Alps programs in the middle school level. I call this a version of ideal because there is no one perfect ideal and an ideal situation might vary as um as needs are as needs change. But um this would be an a version of ideal. We would not ask for any more um staff or personnel resources at the district level at this time. But um with universal testing perhaps to add that in a lower grade. Um most school districts that do universal testing, they do do it in second or third grade. We have been so happy and feel so privileged that we've been able to do that in sixth grade going to seventh grade. But ideally we would want to go um earlier and younger as we talked about at the last board meeting that I was here where I was here and then also a provision to for new students as they come into the district and also provision for appeals. Um sitebased specialist um in our wonderful ideal world we would have a full-time sitebased specialist at all of our elementary schools and even at all of our secondary schools. One of my favorite speakers at the National Association for Gifted Children conference was a closing keynote. And after the conference, I reached out to her. I thought she was a professional speaker who was doing something in some big school district. And it turns out that she was a secondary um GT specialist in a small school district in New Jersey. And um so she and she loved her job and I I loved her message at the conference. And um so there's a a space for that as well. And then we would need of course to continue with a specialty school Alps or some other type of specialty school. Um if we had a lot of uh local services in this in by way of sightbased specialist, the need for a specialty school would probably diminish because most students and more students would have their needs met at their local school. However, there would always be a need for that full-time type of magnet program such as ALPS. The services that are offered in a full-time program cannot be duplicated in a part-time or in a pull out or in a general education setting. And so there will always be a need for those outliers that are especially those ones that are a little more on the extreme outlier um section to have some type of service option. Um so that being said um might not be able to jump to our ideal immediately but this would be a menu of options. So, we could stick with sixth grade universal testing and possibly add second grade. Um, sitebased specialists, we could stick where we're at or maybe or a full-time would be ideal, halftime, quarter time or at least a GT advocate in every building who would have some extra training. Alps might look as it is now or develop into something in every feeder and a specialy school might be one in the north, one in the south or one for the entire district. So this slide will show uh in the pink again what we have in place right now. And then this slide in yellow would show what we would have um ideally if we could make an ideal program from the scrap from the foundation up. And so whatever direction that the board would like to go or the um as we discuss and we look at the needs and adjust for all the many many variables that go into that. These are some options. And again this last slide is just um a menu of options that um that I just shared just another clean version of that. Um this last slide that I have for you this evening just um there's there's so much in education as you well know because you are here night after night on Tuesdays and you're hearing all that goes into all of education. It it's enormous. It's giant. There's so much and gifted talented education is a very quiet facet of education. Um, and it's very easy for it to get lost in the shadows because there are so many other and those other needs are valid and those other needs are pressing. Yet, there's still a need to serve this population. And the last slide is just a big thank you. Um, we are the envy of many other school districts because we have so much support from you, so much support from the superintendent, so much support from our department. And so, thank you so much for um funding and supporting what we do. We're so grateful for that support and um we look forward to continue to work alongside you to meet the needs of this population as well. >> Let the record show that our president, Nikki George, has arrived and she'll conduct the rest of this meeting. >> Great. >> Unless you want me to finish while you get ready. I'm I'm happy to go ahead. Are there questions? >> I have a couple. Um, first of all, thank you and thanks for making this a priority. Um, these kids, I don't want any kid underserved in our district, and I fully support testing at an earlier age, providing as many programs as we possibly can. When I researched this several years ago, it seems like a lot of districts have what I termed alps in every school. So apparently what they do is they take those ALP students and put them in one class and then they backfill them with other children that may not quite be on the spectrum of the Alps qualifications and they pull out those kids for um gifted programs like we would do remediation. And I'm interested why that's not a priority in our district. Um, I would love to have Alps in every feeder. I've said that for a long, long time. But I'd really like to have Alps in every school because I'm not sure even in a feeder some people are interested in taking advantage of a program when it means taking their kids out of their neighborhood school. >> Yeah. That's um largely called the cluster model where you take all of the highest students in a grade level and you put them with one teacher. >> And there's pros and cons to every type of situ uh every type of model. And um with the cluster model, if RTI and the MTSS piece is largely in place where you have fluid and flexible grouping among the grade level, that can happen with um within the grade uh with the that answering the fourth PLC question. And so there there is that model. Again, there's pros and cons to all models, but uh that model can also a similar to that model could work when a whole grade is um dedicated to looking at the needs of students and offering um really valuable meaningful RTI and MTSS time. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Dr. Godfrey. Caroline, would you like to add anything to that? >> Okay. So, do we have uh weight lists for students wanting to get into the Alps program or We generally do. We're able to usually exhaust most of the weight list throughout the summer. Uh we have had declining numbers recently in in one of our grades and and so that that grade does not have a waiting list >> and >> did not have a waiting list last year, I should say. And you saw on the slide that we have a lot of students who would qualify but a lot fewer who actually apply. >> And yeah, I was looking at that and am kind of assuming that some of that might be our underrepresented population, right? Their parents maybe can't get them to that school and so they don't apply because they're like, "Well, I can't drive them because I work or or other things like that." what what kind of barriers do you think are um there that people aren't applying as much? That is definitely one barrier. Um I I believe the the most significant though is that parents would like uh local services um several years ago when the board asked us to do a focus study group and look at uh GT programming in Jordan School District. That's one of the number one things that came up to the top was that parents wanted local services. They wanted a way for their child's needs to be met and to be seen and to be addressed at the local level at their local school, which I think is very valid. Life is busy. Um, even just the traffic in the in the southwest part of the valley used to get zip around pretty quickly. Um it it takes a minute to go from point A to point B these days and and famil family's lives are busy as well. And we have never when parents call us and they ask us about um Alps and if Alps is would be the best match for their children. We always say we just want your child to be happy and to do well wherever they're at. We're not that we don't think Alps is the end all for all things. We want students needs and their abilities recognized, nurtured wherever that might be. And so there is a place for Alps and I've been working with this um population and this field for a very long time. And uh Alps really makes a difference in some schools in some children's and some famil family's lives. But the need is greater than Alps. There's a need um in every one of our schools as that data shows. Can I ask what are the sightbased specialists currently doing that full-time one at Jordan Ridge and the halftime at Bastian Westale? What do they do at those schools? That's a wonderful question. Um we they are doing pullouts for students. Um one at the the the sitebased specialist who is full-time is able to do a pullout program for kindergarten through 6th grade um for both English language arts and for math and some specialty programs as well. Of course, the one who is part-time at two schools isn't able to do quite as much, but she still does pull outs for the students. Um they also um do professional development for the teachers in the school, so they're ready resource right there at the school. And um they attend PLC's when they can to help promote and foster that fourth PLC question. Um they also uh do that when we have Alps testing they help us with the Alps testing at the school. And so part of their part of their focus is to work with teachers and then part of their focus is to work with students. And I would say the majority of their focus is to work with students >> and those special programs. Will you describe what some of those are? >> Um those would be like the math olympiad uh which and the math tournament which is a wonderful thing to see uh that we held it. we held it, we hold at daybreak every year. Um, uh, debate sometimes they they work with that and monster math, um, a story competition. Um, those are the types of, um, extra things that they do that the teachers don't always have time to do. >> Why did we put specialists at these schools? Like why did we pick Jordan Ridge, Bastion, and Westvil? >> That is another great question. at the time that um the board put those two um specialists in place to do a pilot to look at uh the two different models, one full-time and then one full-time but part-time in each school. We were moving the program from we were moving Alps from Jordan Ridge to Jordan Hills and and so um that was what was recommended because the program Alps program had been at Jordan Ridge for a long time to help with that transition. And then we were doing some pullout programs with um a part-time specialist at both Bastion and Westville. So we already had kind of a foot in the door and some foundation laid there. And so that's why those two schools were chosen. And we chose those two schools also because they were different demographically and we wanted uh we wanted at least one of the schools that we were in to be in that west side of West Jordan. >> Uhhuh. So when um in these pullouts, is it are they with students all in the same grade or is it with students that are um at a similar level but of different grades? >> Um both it [snorts] it depends on the the project that they're working with. primarily the teacher who is at Jordan Ridge does do just within that grade and she works with the teachers and she aligns what she's doing with the standards and what what the teachers are working on. But some of the things like math olympiad or the math tournament there is a mixture of grades and so um so a little bit of both mostly with the same grade but sometimes with a little bit of both. Great question. Thank you. And with the math olympiad, um, does it ever go farther than the district or >> No, there's actually two pieces to the math olympiad. So, there's, uh, a classroom tournament or a math club tournament that goes from October to March and that is a national competition. They send in their problems that they do and then at the end of the year they get awards and ribbons. And then the math tournament that we sponsor at Daybreak is a culminating event and it's sponsored it's facilitated at least the problems and the structure is um comes from the math olympiad organization but it's not the actual math olympiad it's the math tournament. So that is our culminating piece but we don't go any further than that. Thank you. >> There's a couple decisions the board made that I think had some impact and I'd like to know what kind of impact. Um number one is we moved um as you just mentioned Alps out of um Ridge View and put Jordan Ridge and put a a specialist in there. Number two, we defunded the bus. Um has how how has that impacted the program? >> Uh our program at Jordan Hills where the program moved from Jordan Ridge to Jordan Hills. Um we didn't skip a beat. We've we're still this year our first grade was a little bit lower, but otherwise um the the classes are always completely full with waiting lists. >> So most kids followed that program except for the ones maybe that lived there. >> Yeah, there's a few that didn't. Um we probably had 75% or so that followed and um then we've been able to fill in with other applicants over the over the years. And then with the transportation that was did make a a bit of an impact at first on the middle school. Uh but uh we've we're still feeling we still have the same numbers overall. It didn't make as much impact as we thought it would. Um so as the program has has built from those first couple of years uh I I wonder if wrership would be greater now than it was at the time. I couldn't predict that, but but we we do still have students from um all areas going there and finding a way to get there. But uh most of the students in the middle schools are from the that participate in the middle school programs are still kind of centrally their homes are centrally located around that actual middle school. >> Thank you. And [clears throat] um so what are we doing in the district for the exceptionally high level students the the green ones on the slide. >> Um we have the Alps program but other than that it's up to the individual schools what's happening in those schools. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Can I can I speak to Would you mind going back to the slide with the 99th percentile? I just want to emphasize that those are students. What was the total number again? Uh total number of students >> and this one 91 students. >> So 91 students who are in the top 1% on this test nationally. Is that what you're asking about? This group in particular beyond Alps? There aren't there isn't anything specialized beyond that? And this is a this is a particular group when we talk about potential options going forward. There's the support spreading that support to schools to address some of the questions that you asked about um why aren't they accessing the program and and and that sort of thing. But we have the top th those top 1% nationally. And that's one of the solutions that was or one of the options that was on the grid is developing a program that meets those needs of the um the real outliers. And that's not we don't have a program like that and we're not aware of one. The closest one that we're aware of I think is in Reno that is a is a program designed specifically for those very high flyers. So, if that was something that the board chose to address, I think we would go look at other programs and really have to research that. So, we don't know exactly what that would look like. It's an exciting proposition to explore how to meet the needs of the the profoundly gifted. I have a couple of questions and I apologize if there's redundancy and you said stuff that I missed. Um, so it was I'll confess my mom flaws, but I it was not until my oldest child was in secondary school that I even learned how to go access my kids test scores. It's not like we send a letter home um on the norm. So, let's say that a child does perform well on this test. What happens next? How are parents notified? And what kind of data do we keep on the reasons why they may or may not choose to participate in ALPS when they're qualified? We send a copy of the results and a letter to all of the parents who are in the eighth and 9th stay night or parents of the students who are in the eighth and nth day nights with an invitation to participate in the Alps program and uh and then we also do an additional outreach to um some ML students as well. So that's how we notify parents and how we provide that information for them. And then we have a a a form where they can fill out if they would like to participate and then we build the class from classes from there. We do not have a we do not track the data. We do track who participates and who does who does not but we do not track the reasons why we we that's not something that we have asked. So, can I ask a board, it's a lot easier for us to know where we need to add resources when we can say, "Oh, it's because of busing," or, "Oh, it's because it's too far," or they just wanted to stay in their local school. if if there was some way to just do some sort of survey asking why someone declines services, I'm curious how much of a lift that would be for your department. Uh it it's a question that we could ask with um with the form that we already have. We can add a question to it. Um, since that those forms are already sent out this year, um, we could possibly send another form out to ask them to reply to it. Um, and we'd make it as simple as possible for them to do so. >> Yeah. If I mean I board, would that be valuable to you at all? >> Yes. I'd be I'd be particularly interested in talking about the option of asking transportation, asking um if there was one in their feeder system, would that be close enough? You know, maybe a few options to gauge what would be enough to get them. Yeah, I think that would be helpful for me to understand where the needs are because it might be the case that a parent just says, "I want my kid with their neighbors." You know, I that's fair. Um it's not like they have to participate. Um and then my next question is, can you describe what these services look like for a secondary student? Do do they just participate in advanced classes like maybe older peers or do they have some sort of additional programming >> in the Alps program in middle school? >> Sure. Middle and it probably does it exist in high school? Do does it keep carrying on or do we just say oh you can take a concurrent class or something like that? >> Um it does it does not continue in high school but I'll address the first question first. with um Alps Middle School. There are three classes that are specific to Alps. So, it's the English language arts class, the science class, and the social studies class. And those teachers, we do training with them. Um they've either received their gift in town endorsement or working towards it. And then we also do ongoing training for them. And uh all the other classes are integrated into the school at large. math is separate from Alps placement and um the math department determines the al the the math placement and so there there are not extras there. Sometimes they will do some um debate or some things of that sort. We also sponsor um the math tournament and math olympiad in the middle schools but again that's not just specific to Alps. And then we do not have an high school program because we have so many other options with AP and concurrent enrollment and the JTC programs um IB there's there's so many other options at the high school level uh that we don't have anything specific but what we have done the past two years and it stemmed from an ALP student who asked about what what options are there in high school because um the student had never taken an advanced class before and found that they really enjoyed their Alps classes in the middle school and said, "I don't even know what to do for high school." And so we worked with Chris Richards Kong and with Stacy Woreren and we um put together a list of it. It's a very small simple list of we just said Alps ends in 9th grade, but um advanced opportunities expand in high school. Here's some information for you to make some decisions to help you with your decisions. And we just barely sent that out actually to um the counselors in the middle schools to send home um for the Alps families. And one of our ninth grade ELA teachers asked if she could have a copy of it just to send to give to all of our nth grade students so that they would know what was available for them in high school because kids um going back to my slide of the students of concern um sometimes students depending on their background they have no idea what an AP class is or concurrent enrollment class is. Um, I I remember at the beginning of the year during our PD day when Dr. God Do Dr. Godfreyy's video where he interviewed students and he asked them why they love their teachers and the one that stood out to me, one of the students at the middle school said, "I love my teacher because she told me I should be in honors." And she was so honored that somebody saw that ability in her. And and that's what she chose to share during that video. And so, um, again, we want students to, um, be recognized and those abilities seen and nurtured wherever they may be. And so, that was a really wide circle to your question, but [laughter] but there we don't have the program doesn't continue in high school, but we've tried, especially the past two years, to give those ALP students some resources in their hands um, as they're going making that transition to high school. >> Thank you. That's so helpful. Um, so I apologize again. This is probably something you covered. I tried to read the slides ahead of the meeting, but sometimes slides are easier to understand with the presentation. Um, so if you're in middle school, you're not going to a specific school to receive these advanced classes in the three. Yes. >> Or are you? >> Well, we just have the three schools. And so we have them blocked out by um geographical area because we send about 600 invitations. And so we have to split them up into the three schools. And so the program at Hidden Valley serves the students in Hidden Valley of course. Um South Hills, Fort Heramman, and Ochre Hills. And then in Elkridge, that's one of the other Alp school schools. Uh for the middle school, they serve Elkridge, Mountain Creek, Copper Mountain, and South Jordan. And then we have Joel Jensen, which is Joel By Jensen, West Jordan, West Hills, and Sunset Ridge. Thank you. >> And I would say that surveys always have value. We have bust kids. We have provided transportation. and that still has not translated into students choosing to be part of a program. So, we can survey, but we've actually tried transportation and it hasn't >> it hasn't closed that gap. >> Um, but when we bring the program to the students instead of trying to get the students to the program, it works almost every time. um because then you're not sacrificing anything except maybe some time with peers during the day, but the sacrifice is so minimal and the benefits so great. So, we can survey there's value in that. Uh but we've also put it to the test and shown that even if we transport kids, that's not enough. It need really needs to be at their school to remove all of the barriers. Um, that's not to say it wouldn't be valuable to to to give options, but I I would just point that out. That's why we discontinued some of the busing because it just wasn't even being accessed. >> So, this probably is putting someone on the spot. So, if you need more time before answering, but I'm curious at just the elementary level, what would the cost be if we were to provide? And I think it could probably be a shared specialist, but at all of our elementary schools, >> it's a $100,000 average for an uh a teacher salary, and we have 40 elementary schools in uh that are brick and mortar. >> Could how what would be a fair case load for a specialist? Could they cover two schools? Could they cover three schools? I don't know how long these pull out sessions take. >> I met that I met with two specialists and asked that question. I'll have Rebecca give a more detailed and better response to that, but I was really impressed with what can be accomplished with halftime. And so I think um if if you split one specialist for four schools, that's essentially a day a week in each school. And that's better than where we are. Um, some positions we haven't wanted to split when we first put them in place. For example, an elementary counselor. We chose to only put counselors in place at the elementary once we could put a full we we put a full counselor there because of the follow-up with individual students. But I think you can effectively split schools. So if you if you're talking about 40 schools, 100,000 per person, splitting that up, that's about $2 million to have a halftime. >> What about expanding middle school? >> That would that expand middle also? >> Uh it would it would be two million to have a halftime specialist at every elementary school. And if we were to do that, we would hire the same way that we hired elementary counselors. we would as we were able to hire or find and um help train qualified candidates, then we wouldn't just instantly hire whoever we could find. We would hire the best qualified candidates. And I think much like with elementary counselors, we would attract people with that with that um ability with that training to our district to say, "Hey, I can provide support to a whole faculty and a whole group of students." That's that's enticing. So, two million for that. And then for the middle schools, I don't know what we're spending at each middle school right now. >> Uh we don't have any specialists at the middle school. What we do have at the middle schools, we uh so we don't have any as a specialist, but there are 12 middle schools. So if you did the about $600,000 if you split those in two as well >> per school >> total >> total to have to have a specialist halftime at each of the middle schools and help train up teachers to provide those opportunities. >> So can I ask a question? I'm going to ask Rebecca first and then Anthony second. Would you go to the the yellow boxes? There are six yellow boxes. If we could do all six, that would be ideal. Well, if we can't do six, we do five. If we can't do five, can we do four? If we can't, if we can only do one, here's what I'd love to do. Could you rank those six from one to six, knowing the cost and knowing the benefit to the district from your expertise? That's the number one. That's the number two. And I don't necessarily I know that's a weighted opinion, but from your opinion, what's the one two three four and five and six? And then Anthony, if you could do the same thing, I'd appreciate that. So that I can go back and say, look, the director of the program says that's the number one. If I can do all six, I'll do all six. But if I can't do all six, I'm going to look at one first and then two and then three and see how many I can do. Have I given you enough time to think about it? I can describe the request a little bit longer [laughter] >> for a minute. Just pause. >> So, off the top of my head, >> yep. >> Um, I do have to say my first one is with a caveat though because I would say my first one would be the full-time specialist in all schools with a caveat that um there was still an Alps program. That Alps didn't go away. that full-time program didn't go away because I've seen firsthand for many years the difference that can make in a child's life and in a family's life. >> But to to go to our key question of how do we offer the greatest amount of service to the greatest amount of students in the greatest amount of location, I believe that full-time in all schools would make that difference. Okay. >> Um the second one would be um universal testing at a younger grade. We would need something in place if we did that universal testing in a younger grade because we would have many families who would opt into that and that could look like the ALS program or it could look like we've identified your child. These are the services that we're offering at your school right in your boundary area. So that would be my number two. Um and then the >> there a price tag on that one? Uh the yes for universal testing it is it depends on the number of students in a grade but it's right around $60,000. So um 60 could some years if there's a a larger number go to 65,000 but it's right around 60,000. When we first started it was about 50,000 but prices have changed over the last several years. >> That would be an additional. You wouldn't do away with sixth grader. you would >> um at first I would not recommend doing away with it because if we did away with it then we wouldn't have our middle school programs and they have served students and so maybe in time that would be something that could be phased out if those students that we identified them early and they continued on but again we'd still have to have some provision for students who moved in new to the district or some things of that sort so so for time I would like to see them both and >> and what's the sweet spot when do you test. >> Uh if you're doing universal testing, the sweet spot is either second grade going into third grade or third grade going into fourth grade. Those are the two sweet spots for a type of universal testing. Um right now for the Alps program, we test for every grade every year, but we do have some key entry grades which are kindergarten going into first grade and then third grade going into fourth grade and then of course sixth grade going into six sixth grade going into seventh grade. So those are my first two and then the others would really depend on what would happen with those first two. Um I would always >> let's assume one and two are in place in order to get to three. Three won't stand alone. So to get to three we've done one and two. >> We've done one and two. Um, I would say uh a specialty school in the north and a specialty school in the south because um those would have uh because more of those needs would be met at the local level and so that would then we would be looking at those kind of the outliers of the outliers and that could look like a 112, it could look like a a 3 to8. It could look a few different ways, it could look similar to what Alps looks like like right now. And um I I believe that if we put something in the local schools plus we did more identification, then that would change the nature and the need of the full-time program. But going back to my original comment, I would say all of that with a caveat that we never lose that full-time program along the way. Because again, I've been in this job for a long time. I've seen it firsthand how much that means to and how much of a difference that can make in some students lives. >> Great, Anthony. >> I would say number one is full-time in all schools because that just brings the services to the student. And I would even include halftime in all schools as >> somewhere between the half and the Okay. So your sec your second would be a halftime. >> My second would be halftime in all schools. My third would be uh the testing. And I say that because even I mean we can I feel like that's in reach. My fourth is um or my third rather. >> No, your third is the testing. >> There you go. My my fourth is the specialty, but it would be one specialty school for the entire district. Um, to me that's essentially and this is a it wouldn't it wouldn't be well this is kind of like the Karis Sue Hamilton school where you meet those who have the the a very small percentage who have very unique needs and we're meeting those needs. So it's with transportation. So, I would be fine with a well centrally located with transportation like this is the top 1% and we're going to meet the needs of those 100 students in ways that nobody else in the inter mountain west does and I'd just like to explore how to do that. So, I don't know a price tag or anything there. So, full-time testing specialty school centrally located elementary Alps in every feeder middle school Alps in every feeder. >> Okay. >> Be my priority. >> Thank you. I didn't know that the white was on the table. So, [laughter] >> I changed the rules, Rebecca. That's what I do. >> So, I would also say full-time, halftime, and then the um the increased universal testing. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> And and I have a question about families um who have more than one student, but not all students qualify for ALPS. And um I'm [clears throat] curious what um what the process is with these families and then for the board with the talk about providing transportation. Would you want to provide transportation for siblings that do not qualify for Alps? But anyway, does does my question make sense? >> Yes. So currently uh the schools are very familiar with um students who are in Alps who have siblings who are not in Alps and most of the time they can accommodate them through school choice permits. Um when the board changed the way permits were done several years ago, you have an inclusion uh or provision for kindergarten students being able to just go to the Alps school and then um if they don't continue in Alps, then they would apply for a school choice permit. Most of the time our elementary schools can accommodate that. I don't get as many requests for the middle schools for that. So, I I couldn't fully answer that because that isn't something that has crossed my desk very often. But on the elementary side, um most most [clears throat] of the time those siblings can be accommodated. Uh looking to the future, it's um hard to say if there were if it was a general type of ALP school, then there would be a place for those students to attend school. If it was a specialty school that was um a kind of a standalone type of school and there wasn't other general education classrooms there, then that might make a a difference on what could be accommodated there. That's a that would be um something definitely to be explored in the mix of all of it. Thank you. That was a great question. >> We're going to expand our services. I would not be in favor of transportation. It would didn't work with the services we have now. we have we're having five and 10 people riding a bus and if we're going to expand services it doesn't make much sense to expand transportation >> if if we were to expand services at the local level there would be no need for that and uh if there if we were to expand services in some type of a specialty school then um then there would be a more of a valid need for transportation but especially if we were to expand services at the local school level that would of the beauties of that of expanding at that level. >> And to clarify, a specialty school doesn't mean that it has to be a separate building. That's why I hesitated to say like a Karisu Hamilton school. But the type of program that draws kids, it's like, hey, I'm the top 1%. Where can I get services? I know Jordan district has a unique program that can meet those needs. We're actually drawing students here that that have that need. And so that's the only area where I would emphasize transportation is if you're one of a hundred students who need this highly specialized program that we provide transportation to be sure that isn't a an obstacle to that very >> but if we have 40 schools that's 40 40 buses transferring 100 kids. >> But if you're picking up a hundred kids >> it's two buses >> at the home then it's then it's [snorts] two or three buses cuz you're not picking them up at their school. That's, you know, you might >> Let's talk about transportation after we decide to expand services. >> Yeah. I wouldn't want transport I wouldn't want transportation to be the obstacle to talking about something like this. So, I'm I'm not that that's that's not an absolute requirement, but that's I just wanted to put it in the context. It's not broader transportation. It's only associated with that specific specialty school. >> I would see it more as a a charter school. We call them magnet schools. And we most charter schools don't give transportation. We just require parents to do it. But that's a conversation day down way down the line. I just know transportation was not working before. >> So So when when students had a bus to Alp schools previously, were their siblings also allowed to ride on the bus? >> Maybe there was five kids on the bus. We've done that with uh um >> because I I wasn't on the board I don't think or maybe I was for a little bit of Alps busing but I I can't I don't know what that looked like if if all family members rode the bus with their Alps sibling. I think that's something we could arrange based on numbers whether I don't remember whether we've done that or not but that's going forward that's something we could talk about and the moment to take action is when you bring your budget proposal when we all sit down and say here's my budget proposal if you want to make a line item for gifted and talented that's when you do it that's the moment for you as a board to say I'd like to all lot this dollar amount for that item and bring it to our budget proposal and pitch it to the board. >> I do have a couple of questions. >> I'll probably have >> Mr. Van's next after you. I'm just going to put it in because he's been raising his hand for a minute. >> Yeah, I know the feeling. Um >> I'm [laughter] sorry. >> It's okay. I don't mind. I don't mind. You answered lots of my questions already by not >> by just waiting. Um >> how do we measure success of a program? So, if we're looking at expanding, I'd like to be able to know it's working and what that looks like. My second question is, what is the relationship between a gifted and talented program and our virtual schools or maybe getting a program or services virtually >> especially for secondary? Especially for what? >> Secondary. I just think that's so much more achievable for a more mature group. >> Do you repeat your first question? >> Yeah, my first question was how do we measure success? >> That is a good question. Um, one of the things that um, I look at is our attrition rate and we are most of the students who begin Alps with us continue with us for many years and we do have some attrition as there would always be but uh, we have very low overall attrition rate. So that's one of the things that I look at. One of the other things I look at is the growth rate uh, for our ALP students. uh we look at the rise testing, we look at acadance testing, and then there's also the growth percentiles. And so every year I look at the growth percentiles in our cadence and in our rise in our Alps classrooms, and they always have some of the highest growth in the district as well. So they go to those teachers knowing a lot, being able to do a lot, and those teachers keep them learning and growing. And so that's one of the things that I look at as well. So those are the two things off the top of my mind that I look at. >> Every time they report growth, you can see those schools at the top of the list. >> Students, and I just have to chime in on that because students who um sometimes are proficient, they don't have a lot of room to go, but if you're looking at growth and an Alps class or some of those students are still re are still able to achieve a year's worth of growth, that's significant. >> Okay. >> Very significant. >> So you could report back to the board on that. >> Yes. and and for a long time because you can see that growth is what indicates proficiency. It's a it's a indicator of proficiency, but also it's really important when you're looking at an ALPS class to say, are these students still making growth even though they were proficient a long time ago. >> That's important to me to measure that growth even for the top performers. Yeah. >> For us as well. And the teachers are really wonderful and again they've had extra training and we provide ongoing training for them. >> At the conference someone spoke about the need to make sure that every student learns something every day. And if you're a gifted student, if you're the top 1% and you aren't receiving services for whatever reason, you may go through a whole day without learning something you already knew that you didn't already know rather. And yeah, >> so >> uh that that's why the growth is so >> the opportunity and the challenge >> right to be challenged every day to learn something new every day. >> Hungry for learning. And then in light of your second question about adding something especially on the secondary level um I think Caroline would be the best one best poised to answer that. >> Well and it it is a good it's a valid point. I was actually thinking more about, you know, gosh, I hadn't thought about a virtual program for an elementary for an advanced, but as Rebecca already mentioned, um there I was just thinking about a presentation that we talked about with AP data today with um with secondary principles, looking at those students and seeing where they came in in terms of their rise scores and what their AP data is showing. and uh it's another way that we can see how we're servicing students that are in this particular population. So there are there are data points indicators that I still think we can see about how our students are progressing at the secondary level. Um I also see a pathway a trajectory from elementary through Alps into um maybe more than taking advantage more of IB than we have. But I think there's a lot of options in our secondary currently. We can always talk about adding more virtual classes that exist and we are one of the things we're working on right now is adding more concurrent enrollment classes to a virtual schedule. That will open up additional opportunities that will allow these students to have, you know, more opportunities to participate in that way. So, I I think that there actually is a lot of um of room there to grow and to offer some things that we can in our virtual um academy that will also meet the needs of these students maybe that are separate the brick and mortar meet the needs without worrying about transportation. And I don't I don't know if there's a way to do a hybrid for even those who might not be in the virtual school but still get some gifted and talented opportunities if they're not in their school virtually. >> Mr. Van, >> I I defer to Mr. Bernett. [laughter] >> Thank you. Midway through the presentation, something struck me and I want to make sure I understood correctly. I think you said that there there are occasions when you will be talking with someone and and they'll ask what you do and you'll say I work in GT in Jordan school district and they'll say something like there's no place in public education or K or K12 for GT. Is that what you said? Something like that happens? >> Yes, we because GT does have the a little there can be a stigma that goes with gifted and talented programming. Um, a lot of times people think it is elitist or uh we shouldn't focus on the needs of the high because they'll be fine anyway. And so yes, over the years I've had comments and the like over over again our board and our school district is very supportive, but there are those um in education and outside of education who um do not have a positive light of or positive take on gift and talented education. >> Okay. I I wanted to get maybe a a better understanding of the whole issue and and part of that I think is understanding at least for me understanding why there are some people who think it doesn't have a place in public education or at least in K12 and you've mentioned a couple I guess already they think it's elitist or maybe exclusionary or that these kids will be okay. Um what are are there other arguments that these types of people make or are those kind of the the the two main things? >> Uh those are some of the main things. It goes back to Dr. Godfreyy's initial comments about the myths of gifted and talented education. And uh so that is a large part of it too. And I I think that I think the elitism is uh one of the most common though they think that we are you preferential treatment or um sectioning out and um honoring students who will be okay anyway or giving priority to students who um will be okay anyway. And I say that in quotation marks there because um and going to uh an athletes analogy uh a very talented athlete does better with a coach and um all talents and all abilities when they have someone to foster and nurture them um they can grow and develop at a higher rate than if they're left alone. and and then uh a lot of times they think that it's uh one of let I will say this too one of the I would say that the most of the time the comments have come from very bright individuals who have very bright children who have said well I was fine my kids are fine there's really no need to have these types of services that goes back again to my um my slide with the populations that I'm particularly concerned about. And uh we want no matter where a child's background is, no matter um where they what school they're in, again, we want their abilities to be recognized and nurtured. We don't want a student to um go away from school board day in day out. We want them, as Dr. Godfrey said, want every ch every child to be learning something new every day. And that's what gifted and talented education is really all about. But there are those myths out there that um it is about something a little different. So there might be an effort required to debunk some of these >> to change those mind those mindsets and I can speak for me and my team that none of us come from a silver spoon background and we just we care deeply about all students and this is uh most of the people who actually work in the gifted talented field are there because they know family members or students whose needs were not met And because they saw that firsthand, they have sought ways to meet needs. And so almost everyone that I've ever encountered in the field of gifted and talented education has that type of a background. >> One last thing for me. Um I I was speaking with a constituent this past week and and one of the issues that she brought up actually kind of ties in with what we're talking about. So I wanted to bring it up. I was curious um especially as it relates to graduating seniors how gifted and talented individuals, how or if they are recognized, receive awards, receive scholarships. And I was wondering specifically how heavily weighted GPA is in determining whether an individual should be recognized or receive a certain award or receive a particular scholarship because the gifted and talented students are taking more difficult courses, right? So, so maybe someone who goes through their high school and and has a 4.0 GPA, but they haven't taken some of those more difficult classes, you know, how does someone like that compared to someone compared to someone who has taken those types of classes and gets a 3.5 GPA? Maybe the 3.5 GPA is just as deserving at those awards and rec re recognition. And so I'm I'm curious if that is taken into account in any of those things. >> A lot of times that is calculated based on it's based on a straight GPA. So if you take an easier class and you get an A, it's weighted the same as taking a concurrent enrollment class and getting an A. There are districts that have a weighted GPA. So you can get over a 4.0 based on the level of difficulty of your courses. We have not done that, but it's something I've thought about because at a national level, it does give students an advantage when they're looking for scholarships or admission to an elite um organization or an elite university. Some uh some universities just look at a straight GPA. I called on behalf of a student where she had come from a system in California that had A+es. And so you could have an A minus and an A+ and still have a 4.0 average. And so I called her school of choice. I think it was Stanford. And the admissions said, "Yeah, we don't take into account what your system is. A 4.0 gets in one stack and a non4.0 gets in another stack. 4.0 plus." And they don't look carefully and say, "Oh, but they took a really hard course." So it might be something for us to explore. what does our grading look like and how can we make sure that our grades reflect the level of difficulty as well as the level of achievement because unfortunately a GPA is currency these days. um more schools have moved away from a GPA to activities and overall development more portrait of a graduate sort of outcomes but unfortunately a number is also often assigned to a student's accomplishments. So I think she makes a fair point. Is there anything that you would >> I couldn't speak to that as well. My primary background is in elementary and some in middle school as well. So Dr. Godfrey and Caroline could speak best to that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but some colleges weight their own GPA, right? Like >> I think so. >> They consider more weight to a more difficult class. I think I've heard it. >> And as far as schoolwide awards, validictorian, saludiatoran, I've been in school community council meetings where the parents and the administration and teachers and counselors discussed how they wanted to do that. And so some schools decide how they're going to weight different things each individual school. I mean, that doesn't say how different colleges will weight it, but as far as the schoolwide um awards, some some schools figure that out on their own. And and parents who are um have an interest in that. I'm sure they could attend their school community council meetings, reach out to the administration, find if out if there are other like-minded parents who want to adjust how those are determined and start that discussion. You know, >> Mr. Did you have a comment? >> It sort of goes to Mr. Barnett's question. What is what steps are being taken so that those that are involved in the ALP system both educationally parents and students are informed that there are all these other students who have chosen not to be in Alps so that they don't sort of breed this um exclusive exclusivity because I I I know from personal experience when they get to high school or even in a middle school um students will be like why are you in this class or I'm better than you. I think that's where some of the the push back against this sort of elitism comes from is because unless things are affirmatively being done to say there are lots of other students you have a wonderful opportunity here but be aware there are others who are just as exceptional um or even more exceptional who choose not to be here. Are there things being done for that both for educating you know the people who are involved in that and the parents because it does breed sort of this um sort of this fear-based if if my kid's not in here then then maybe um something's wrong. Is that affirmatively being done? Um we do share the u the the general numbers with our Alps teachers and we talk to them also about and we encourage them to um find that balance between recognizing and helping a student to develop their talents but also realizing that the whole world is filled with many talents and uh I can't speak to specific students but uh that is certainly not something that we intentionally foster and something that we also try to dissuade. Uh a couple of years ago we had a whole professional development on sarcasm and the difference between sarcasm and wit and um helping students understand the differences between sarcasm and wit. >> I bet that was great. [laughter] It came because um some of our teachers were saying we need some help because we have some students who um needed some help understanding the difference between the two and that um wit is good and kind and sarcasm can be biting and so there's uh we we and as far as to parents though we do not have that information out to parents um but that I I don't know what avenue we could um share that with parents parents. I when we do have parent meetings, I do have a slide that says there are many students who um qualify for ALPS at very high levels but choose not to be in Alps. And so I I do try to make note of that at parent meetings. But other than that, I have not had any outreach with parents, but that I certainly concur with that. It is a fact. We have students all over our district who would qualify and qualify at high levels, but who choose not to. Sometimes parents will ask me, "Well, what about when they get to high school? Is there any benefit uh with like AP and concurrent enrollment?" And I always tell them, "Our classes are filled with students who've never set a foot in Alps who are in AP and concurrent enrollment." And they are doing well and they uh so Alps isn't just a straight conduit to that because there's many other paths to get there. One of the other things I always say on on our slides when I do parent meetings is um there's many paths to a good education. Alps is just one option. We offer it as an option. It's a great match for some families. For other families, it's not the right match. And um we just hope that you choose what is the best match for your family. But I appreciate your question. I think it's a very important one. >> And and then in followup, you you can follow metrics for those in Alps. Are you following metrics for those that you test who aren't going in? Are you are you tracking them so you have some controls to see how they do? Because that to me seems that maybe that would be a good barometer if they're falling off if you're tracking them. But if you're not tracking them and you're just tracking the group in Alps, just a suggestion. >> Yeah, we we have not, but it there's we that is certainly something that could be looked at and it could be done with the with the information systems that we have. I have one more question. Um, I was thinking about the universal testing and then it clicked that universal means everyone takes it because I remember like letters coming home and things being sent out at Parent Square saying you can test for Alps if you think your student, you know, would benefit or qualify. And so I'm curious um how many avenues parents are getting those suggestions about Alps cuz I got the first one for my son when he was about to go into first grade. Um but we were in Murray School District at the time. Um so I'm curious if teachers are actively um as telling parents like, "Hey, I think your student should take the ALPS test." are we tracking that at all um of who's being recommended to the program and um who actually tests like because we don't have it universal at a lower level. I'm wondering how many you know have missed or the parents just don't see it or don't you know test go have their child test. Uh what we do for advertisement is we send home a hard copy flyer in English and Spanish to every family in the elementary school. So we send home about 30,000 flyers for that. We also put uh posters in every school in English and Spanish. We also right before the first parent conference, we send uh a note to teachers to individual teachers in their boxes that says here's some characteristics of some students who might be bene who might benefit by the Alps program and um here's some passalon cards you can give to your parents at parent teacher conferences and we have the passalong cards both in English and in Spanish as well. And so those are the ways that we advertise. And then also parents wear uh peach jar. Uh those are the ways that we advertise uh as far as what happens once we put the advertisement out. That's not something that that we can um that that that we can control there. So um so those are but those are the ways that we do advertise. >> Okay. and could potentially um a teacher recommend a student take it, you know, at almost every level, right? Like maybe they're going to the first grade teacher says, "Hey, I recommend you do this," but they don't. And then second grade, "Hey, I recommend you do this." And they don't. And then, okay, we we have an opt-in test for every grade every year. So, we we test kindergarten through 8th grade students every year. Um, and it's optin except for the sixth grade going into seventh grade which is universal. And um, I just wanted to make one more comment in light of u, Mr. Van's question. Um, one of the things that we are advocating for is not just an expansion of the Alps program. As I said, um, at first um, Alps is is uh makes a difference, but the need is greater than Alps. And the number one thing that we are advocating for are more services in every school. And um when there are more services in every school and opportunities in every school, I think it takes part of that elitist piece out as well when there's more opportunities for everyone everywhere. So, I've been kind of compiling a list of data points that would help me um next time we invite you to come back and and I hope that you will come back and I hope you'll help us figure out the best time like after you've maybe after you've received the results of the testing and had a chance to do parent outreach. I don't know the right timing, but be thinking about that. So, board members, I'd love for you to add to this list, but here are some that I'm interested in right now. Um, the first was students who were qualified but rejected the services or rejected joining an ALPS program. Um, and the reasons that they give like what are the what are the barriers that are keeping students from benefiting from the programming? Um, I'm curious about our weight lists. So, how many students are not being served and why are they not? Is it because our programs are full? Is it because they didn't quite qualify but they were close? So, that kind of information. Um, I'd love to hear some return like continue telling us how are the students benefiting who are in the program. So, how are their testing data? um how how is this benefiting them? And then it would also be helpful for me to know when we find out who is qualified like maybe a hot spot map. Okay, it was pretty spread out or we have one area that seems to have great need. Um those data points would be helpful for me in knowing how to allocate funds. Um, anything else that board members would add or any of those that you would say, you know, that's really not useful? >> I think for me, I'm curious how long it would take to implement the first, second, third, fourth, fifth choices. I mean, >> can tell you that right now. >> Could it happen next year? Would it be the year after? >> I can tell you that right now. And then back me up and or correct me. One or the other. Correcting me is backing me up also. [laughter] um full-time, halftime in schools. As soon as we can hire qualified people, we're ready to go. We have a model for how that works. We have people doing it very well. We have district level specialists who can train. So, that could start in the fall. >> And would you ever start it mid year or was that would this be a start at the beginning of the year only? >> I think we'd start it in the fall to provide adequate training to make sure that the structure fits in with what teachers have planned. We wouldn't want to disrupt the school schedules and that. And since we're halfway through the year, I think we would start hiring right away, but then we would start training and implement fully in the fall. Uh the testing could start next year. Uh or we could even start it. We really could start that this year actually. We could probably put the testing in place. Would we need to wait for next year? >> Uh I that would be best to wait until next year. >> So, but we could do that in the fall. And yes, uh, with a with a plan on what to do with the test, we could do that in the fall, >> right? Because we need to have we need to be ready to provide those >> supports. And that's why full-time or halftime in all schools is the first priority because you have to have the supports in place. You can't test people and say, "Hey, actually, your child is very gifted, but I wish we could help them." Um, but they're going to have to travel to this other school, and that's the only way that we can help them. And then people say, "Well, the friendships are more important than that and we'll do what we can to supplement." So those two could happen right in the fall. The Alps, uh, the specialty school would would not be in the fall. We would need a year to research that, I think, at least, but maybe a year from fall, we could have some elements of that in place. and the Alps in every feeder. I'd have to turn to you to even have a guess about how soon we could >> uh not next year, but the following year, depending on the testing that uh that would take a little bit of pieces and parts to put together, but but it could be done in in the not too distant future. So, sitebased specialist in universal testing in the fall, uh, Alps and expansion and specialty school a year from fall. >> So, we have space in every feeder for an Alps program. That's not a barrier. Okay, >> we can make that work. >> Thank you. >> So, for me, I would need those data points before I could move forward with any additional funding. So, can I ask timeline on that? When could you gather like how how long would it need before you could provide a presentation that included those items? >> Yes, please. >> I don't even I mean, we would be happy to bring that back to you, but if we put our data scientist on it, we can provide you that in an email and be able just to give you the information that we that we >> some of it we're not collecting, right? >> Some of it we're not collecting, but we have historical records and I think we've looked at some of that before and so if we had our data scientists work on it I think we could kind of come up with that fairly quickly and be able just to put together some um some information [clears throat] that would answer your questions. There any other information that board members are interested in receiving? Okay. Are you interested in receiving more information or are you comfortable without it? >> I'd like to >> Looks like we have a majority nodding. It's a very formal form of voting. So, um can we make that request of you to gather that information? Uh let us know how you'd like to share that with us. If if you feel like it's pretty readable and an email would suffice, that's okay with me. If you'd like to come back and be on a future, I think this was a robust conversation. There seems to be interest. Along the lines of what Suzanne mentioned as far as how do you measure the the success of any program, but specifically this one, I would be interested in in some information that would tell me spending more money here is worth it because and fill in the blank. you know, h how does that benefit these students and do we have evidence of that benefit? Those those kinds of things I I would be interested in. >> And and I'll just piggy back when I one of the data points that I was requesting testing data on qualifying students. I don't just mean students who received the services. So we know who would have qualified by the test. Can we compare their progress? >> Can you clarify that for me? I don't I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. >> So, if a student qualifies but does not choose to attend an Alps placement school, I would still be interested in watching their progress growth data. So, like if you just showed me a graph and said, "Here's the progress made by students in Alps. Here's the progress made by similar intelligence levels but students who didn't receive the services. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> Yes. The the caution I would give just in advance of the email and I think the email is a starting point anytime we provide an email emailed information to the board. It's oh this answers my question or I'd really like to explore this more in a public meeting. So that's a starting point. Um, I know I don't have to explain this to the board, but for those listening, it's the correlation and causation difference. Sometimes we might say, okay, well, if you were in Alps, you saw this growth. If you were not in Alps, you saw this growth. But there are many different factors that play into that. So, I think it's informative. We just also have to be cautious about the conclusions that we draw always. back. >> I think I'll be interested too once we get all of our metrics with Portrait of a Graduate, the well-being of these students. Is their well-being improved by being in a program that challenges them or gives them opportunities as opposed to not. >> Um, >> and I'm interested in those same questions that M. George raised and that you've asked and others have asked for those students who are in the Alps program but also those who are at a school with a specialist and what is their well-being? What is the well-being like for a student who gets to stay at their neighborhood school but also has specialized services provided there? And and not just are the scores up but what's what are all the portrait of a graduate metrics associated with that? Do they feel a sense of belonging that they didn't feel? Because for me, a sense of belonging doesn't just come from people treating you well. It comes from having a sense that I belong here because I'm accomplishing things here. >> Which I wanted to ask. Yes. Do you want to add that dynamic to your data? >> Sorry. Was that what you were going to say? I didn't mean to interrupt you. >> Do do schools still do Letterman jackets? Is that a thing or is that a thing of the past? >> Sweaters I've seen. betterman. >> It's not schools. It's outside um businesses generally, but yeah. >> Okay. I didn't know if that was a way that >> I mean, but you can get a letter get a letterman's jacket. I don't know if I could right now, but if I wanted to pay for it, they would probably sell me one. [laughter] >> You you can still qualify for an academic or an athletic letter. >> Okay. So, there are academic letters available. Okay. Yeah, I wasn't >> more often worn on a sweater than on a on a on [laughter] a jacket. >> There's still quite a few jackets, though. >> Very excited. >> Let's bring them back. Brian, >> let's >> I just remember I I wish there was a letter for the chess club cuz you know I would >> I would have lettered in >> Brian. That is a good tidbit. >> We [laughter] give them cords for graduation and other things. So, >> yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. Well, this has been so helpful. We appreciate your expertise and time. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you for having us. >> Asking myself if we should move on to the next agenda item. Are board members open to taking a break at this point and then we can pick back up with the next agenda item. >> Great. Go ahead and break for let's say until 6:00. A little longer break here. Hoping it's on time. Welcome back to the Jordan School District Board of Education study session. Today is still Tuesday, January 13th. All board members are present. Oh, I guess I don't need to go through everybody in the room. you already know. Um, so we are now beginning and we apologize for a little delay in coming back into the meeting. Thanks for being patient with us if you're watching from home. Let's now move into item 1B, a proposed fieldhouse survey questions. Sorry, a proposed the proposed fieldhouse survey questions. So, just to catch listeners up, we made the decision as a board to have questions created so that we could see what a fieldhouse survey might look like. Um, and this is the continuation of that discussion. So, we will turn it over to Dr. Godfrey and Mr. Anderson or Larson, sorry. >> Thank you. Uh based on the board's request, we're working with Lighthouse to create survey questions and to execute a survey with uh our patrons. And there are some these are the questions that they have proposed. But um we wanted to bring these to the board to get your input on these questions, make adjustments to be sure that when the survey goes out and the focus groups are held that we are asking the questions you need answers to before making a decision about whether to go out for a bond for fieldous or whether to invest resources in fieldous. So, what input, questions, suggestions do you have? >> Start from the top and go down if you have something to add. My first comment isn't until 14. Anyone before that? >> Let me see. I don't know where uh it falls in the questions. I can't remember. But it's mentioned uh wellness programs. What do we mean by wellness programs? Like are benefiting from could benefit from a fieldhouse. >> Which question number are you looking at? >> I don't remember where it was. Let me see if I can find it. I remember. Oh, 18. Yeah, it's in A and B. >> [clears throat] >> On number 18, >> are we talking about PE programs? A >> specifies PE but not MB. >> A and B both have wellness programs. >> Yeah. I I [clears throat] don't know that that's we should probably eliminate that because I can't tell you what that exactly means. I think it's meant to be more of a catch-all just kind of after school clubs and whatever else you might have, but I think that can be eliminated. I think that's vague. So, we can take that out. >> So, would you take wellness out in >> Did you say both A and B? >> Would you say because this does both A and B kind of touch on A focuses on behavior, academic success through expanded PE and wellness program. B touches on round space for athletics, performing arts, clubs, special education and wellness programs. Do you want other after school activities as kind of a catch-all or do you just want to leave it? >> Yeah, we could say like clubs or other activities. >> We need to be more specific. I don't know what wellness programs means. >> I think a catchall is great, but wellness programs just weird wording [snorts] >> about and other programs. Right. Yeah, >> we'll do that. Yeah, because it sounds like we need to start offering wellness programs. [laughter] >> We we state that the bond would increase. I'm trying to find it. >> It's between 14 and 15. I I also >> We don't have a time frame though. Is Is there a possibility to put for the next is it a 20-year bond? What >> 16? >> Yeah. So, we can add 16 years in here. >> Okay. So question well it's the verbiage isn't it for question 15. Okay. [snorts] >> And is it possible that we can refinance the current bond so it's not that large? And would we ever want to do that? If we could refinance the current bond so it's not so large or would we want to do that? would that put at risk um building a school or something? >> I just I just talked to uh last weekend our uh financial adviser was there and he mentioned to me, "Hey, we looked at all of your bonds and wanted to let you know that uh because we're frequent just because of their funding structure, they benefit when we refinance." And he said, "Uh, we looked at that, but all of your bonds have too low of interest rates. We can [laughter] >> darn it. >> Um I think it could John please correct me and quickly but as we pay down current bonds is it possible that this would uh result in a tax increase without an in a rate increase? Like if we vote, would it would it still would it kind of come under as we pay down >> the bond? Would it would it maybe not result in people paying more monthtomonth? >> So the the wording on the on a bond election has to be the high point of what it is. Um the payment amount would be the same for 16 years is normally how bonds are structured. We can alter that payment structure a little bit if we wish, but usually the payment amount is uh more similar to a mortgage. And the the reason it would come down from that high point is as additional properties are built and we have new growth in the district. >> Yeah. >> Then then the homeowners will start to see that come down. I was wondering if we should say anything in here about the ongoing costs, not just the >> I wondered that cost >> to build. >> We the ongoing costs are not listed in here. That would be another $11 a year in a tax increase separate from the bond. and if that should be added in here or not. >> Just in the spirit of 100% transparency, this is the financial impact, you know. >> Yeah, we could add there. They've got a good description here before question 15. We could add that in there that it would include an ongoing cost. You want that in there? >> I'd like that as long as it's clear that it's not part of the bond. Right. [clears throat] >> We're in that area. Um, >> I would I would clarify maintenance. I mean, let's be clear what it's for. We're not buying anything. We just have to maintain the facilities that we're building with the bond. I'd clarify the purpose. >> Yeah, it's Would you be comfortable with operating costs? >> Operating costs >> because it's more than maintenance. There's going to be um well, maybe you think of cleaning that way, but utilities and >> maintenance of the power. >> Yeah, operational cost sounds good. So, in that same area, I'm a little uncomfortable with the first sentence. Jordan School District has identified a need for more space to accommodate student athletics. I don't I don't feel that this is a need we have identified. I think that this is an option we're considering. I don't know how other board members feel about that wording. >> I think it's a need. >> I think it's a need. I don't know. I I feel like we have heard from some people that it's a need, but other people have said that no, it's not a need. I don't want a fieldhouse or whatever. And so, I feel like I I agree with Miss George that maybe rewarding that sentence would make me more comfortable. >> It's not a need. I'm not interested in even doing it. >> Yeah. If we don't need it, why are we even asking? >> Well, [clears throat] if we do need it, why are we asking? And why don't we just do it? >> We want to know if they'll pay for it because other districts have just done it. >> We need it, but will you pay for it? >> I just I I disagree. I don't think we need it. I think that we have found solutions and are functioning. It would be nice. It would be it's a consideration. So, I would just say Jordan School District is considering a solution to find more space to accommodate student athletics. >> We have kids on our turf field as early as 5:30 in the morning and we have them getting off at 10:30 at night. That's a need. Those kids should not be at school that early nor be out there that late because >> Do you think that will change if we house? It's going to get worse because we're going to get rugby that's going to want to be there for sure if you throw another field. At the very minimum, we need another turf field at each school. But I mean, we're we're sanctioning all these sports and we're providing more activities and we haven't increased the facilities. And so maybe we have to discuss if we need it or not before we even move this forward. I I'm confused about this need as well. You know, public education is legally obligated to provide a certain set of students to the children of the state. Athletics is great. It has a lot of good uh purposes. It serves a lot of good needs. It teaches teamwork. It, you know, it has a lot of good things about it. and and the same with all the other extracurricular activities. But public education is not obligated to provide these other types of things. And so that's that's the counterargument. Do we provide things or are are we saying that it's a need to provide a service for something that the taxpayer is isn't legally obligated to provide that that's where I'm having some >> and as a board we should opt to do away with those activities. >> Driver's ed let's get rid of let's get rid of lacrosse. We don't need to sanction that just because it's sanctioned by the high Utah High School Activities Association. We don't need to include it in our in our schools. We don't have to do soccer. I mean, we don't have to provide those. But if we're going to offer those in our schools, we darn better have facilities to be able to honor those kids. And I would just remind you, um, the number one reason I think kids come to our schools, including homeschool kids and everything, is because they really want those programs. Could I suggest just a change in the wording? Something like um in order to satisfy the demand for more space to accommodate. >> Sure. >> Does that meet everybody's needs? >> That does say >> in order to satisfy the demand for more space to accommodate. Yeah, >> I like the wording of course, but we still have the underlying argument. Is this something >> but the argument might become moot if this doesn't pass and then it becomes another discussion. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. And and Brian, I agree with you about it's we're not obligated by law to provide any of these other things. And so I I too have a hard time using the word need, but I I feel like demands is um is fine and I am curious to see what the results of this survey are >> and we could say even satisfy the increasing demand because that is the trajectory, right? reason why we're going to the public with this, my understanding is that the district can't finance it themselves. >> We could >> won't. >> We won't. >> We can do anything we want. We just can't do everything we want. >> Districts around us are doing lease revenue bonds. We could do that without the voters approval. >> We want to include our voters in this decision. But but to Daryl's point, there are a lot of things that we don't have to do, but we're doing >> because they don't cost $120 million. [laughter] So, it's not an all or nothing. You know, there there are some things that we can do. We can provide lacrosse. We can provide soccer. And yeah, maybe they have to come a little early or stay a little later, but >> 530 is a more than a little early. They beat me to work. >> They must love it. [laughter] >> Exactly. And I don't believe this would solve that. I think you would still have people scheduling space in the fieldhouse at 5:30 in the morning and 10:30 at night. Okay. Other ino input feedback on the survey. I had another question comment. I believe it was on number 18. Um yeah, 18E said generates revenue by hosting tournaments, caps, clinics, and rentals. I I would like to be more specific about like it would generate revenue for individual schools or individual sports like whoever's hosting that camper clinic. That revenue would then help that club camp clinic thing. I just would like to be a little more specific. I agree. Not like what they're making money off this when that is not what's going to happen. >> What do you mean? >> So >> we are going to make money off of it. >> How so? How are we going to make money off of >> we rent it >> the field houses? But if all of our clubs and extracurriculars are >> this is those [snorts] are those who's renting it, >> right? But is it's not really going to be a ton of revenue is my point. and that we should be more specific that it generates revenue for that the individual school hosting a tournament or camp or clinic that it's not revenue for the district themselves, right? Or am I interpreting it wrong? >> It could be >> could do soccer tournaments in the summertime with the community >> and the district would then benefit from that revenue. So, I have a question. Um, as far as renting fields and auditoriums, does the district um generate revenue um in that endeavor? Because I understood that it was the cost [clears throat] of the rental generally paid for the staff that needed to be there and the custodian. And so, I'm just curious about how if that would be different or the same. depends on who's renting. If it's a nonprofit, then it's mostly just covering our actual costs. But there are for-profit groups that might rent that. And there the other thing that might happen is that I don't know, maybe I'm stretching it, but because a a student group is in the fieldhouse, then I don't know, I think there's more availability generally and there might be more rentals. a rental from a commercial group actually nets the district money for for maintenance and that sort of thing. Um, nonprofits just pay the cost, the actual staffing cost. >> The camps and clinics do generate more than just the cost of the building. Right. >> Right. >> That's what Erin's saying. And we could structure it that the rental fees go to paying down the cost of the facility. >> There you go. >> So, it is an option. [clears throat] >> That's what I think our neighboring schools are doing. They're renting out the facility to help pay for the facility. >> And are they changing the rates for that specific? >> I don't know who else is paying, but I know what we're paying. We rent one of the field houses around here. >> So what you're saying is when we rent out our facilities, they sometimes create a profit or a margin for us. What percentage of the time are we pulling in revenue beyond our expenses? Do we have a sense of that? Yeah, rarely guess. >> I I would say rarely. I I'm actually unaware of one, >> but do our we charge the big the big cost that we charge for is the custodial time, overtime. We do have a rental fee on top of that. Uh but our rental fee we haven't changed for 20 years. I mean, it's and uh we we still get complaints that we charge too much on it. >> I thought we changed our rental fees just two years ago cuz I sure get a lot of calls >> for the custodian. >> But like these dance groups that rent it and stuff, they're paying full freight. They're paying more than custodian. >> They're commercial. >> Yeah. There's different rates like Dr. Godfrey was mentioning >> uh commercial rates, nonprofit rates, and so >> it certainly there's going to be a difference there between each of those groups, but I I'm just not clear. I'm not sure that this is clear. Some people will say revenue and and think it means profit. So, I don't know if we want to add a word like generates modest revenue. >> [cough] >> I [clears throat] just don't want people to think >> I think Miss Barrow's >> going to pay for itself. [laughter] >> But they're telling us how important that is >> because Miss Barrow's point was to say for the >> school groups >> school groups, right? They are actually using it as a fundraiser and and generating adequate revenue. So I think if we were to specify it like she's proposing that kind of makes it >> I would be comfortable with that. But then we also had a comment of we could arrange it however we want if it comes. >> We're asking how important is this? >> We're not we haven't said anything. We're just asking how important is it to you that this generate income. >> That's a good point. >> That's all we're asking. We're not saying here's what we're going to do. We're committed to this. We're just saying how important is it to you that it generates revenue by hosting events? That's it. >> So, I'm wondering how much money we're saving by building these two. So, I know a baseball team that pays $40,000 a year for batting indoor batting practice time. Um, I could just imagine what indoor soccer, lacrosse, other things. What I would be interested to know what our sports teams now are paying for indoor It's not >> is that information that we receive in the future? >> Yeah, we could look into that. I am unaware of those sit type of situations. >> I can give you the name of the team. >> Yeah, that would be >> I can tell you one. So it may be if you're looking at that it to the point of the earlier conversation maybe what this is rephrased is uh generating revenue for and saving cost to school groups >> that sounds >> but the district on the district side I I think there's going to be a different side view of that >> one of the school groups would >> one of the biggest reasons to have this is it gives us a competitive average uh advantage really keeping up with the Joneses But in the winter time we were able to practice cuz right now we have kids running down the hall which is probably not the greatest place for athletes to be training and um you know um and also in the summertimes be able to bring our marching bands in from parking lots. So some of these are the things that can benefit most and I don't know how you put that on a survey. It's on I think it it covers it a little bit on B as far as them prioritizing the importance of what you described. So maybe that'll rise to the top. >> Can can we rephrase the way that John suggested? Does that address what you were asking? >> Probably. >> That works for me. So I I'm I am curious about um yeah so let me reread it to be sure I got it. 18e generates revenue and reduces costs for school groups by hosting tournaments, camps, clinics. H school school groups don't do rentals, but maybe we take rentals off then. or just schools, >> amps and clinics. [snorts] I'm unsure if we're actually allowed to generate a profit off of a publicly made building, especially if it is bonded for. That is that's going to have to be a question I'll actually have to look at. >> Yeah, be interested. revenue off of the service of the camp more so than the building like the kids are teaching >> a skill. >> The camp itself would generate revenue for the group. Yeah. But I I Yeah, Alaska Zans. But I we're currently profiting from our buildings when a group does a fundraiser. even our bonded buildings or even our recently bonded buildings. I don't think that I I think it depends on who you look at. >> Who you look at? What do you mean by that? >> The district versus the the group. >> Will you find out and get back to us? >> Yeah. Oh, [snorts] I'm curious how a field house will benefit our special education population. Are we talking about unified sports there? >> Yes. >> What about just separating them and reducing it to say generates revenue by renting the facility and then [clears throat] cuts costs of renting? cuts costs previously spent on renting indoor facilities. I just want to know how important is that? How is it how is important is it that we build a building that can be rented out? How important is it that you don't have to pay $40,000 to go play baseball in the winter in another facility? I think what's the problem is we're getting muddled in things that we're not really asking. So, let's not ask it. What if we just simply say, how important is it that it generates revenue by renting the facility out? How important is it that it saves costs by not having to pay rentals to other facilities? the other [clears throat] question. Yeah, I think you're on to something there. Um, you can also sometimes we risk asking a question that's really intended to inform and maybe in the we we can just explain rentals may help offset operating costs and benefit clubs in the and and teams in the form of fundraisers. Something like that. rather than asking how much do they value that, just explain upfront this may be part of what this is part of what we're proposing. But to your point, it it it just depends on whether you think everyone needs to know this before they take the survey and whether you want to know how they feel about it as part of the survey. If neither of those things is true, then we don't need to include it in this document. It can be part of the board discussion but doesn't have to be part of the survey. It's up to you. >> I think my question is what would inform my next step if the survey results are close? >> Right? >> What information will I need to make my decision? So sometimes I appreciate a really um transparent question. So in this case I didn't I would like to see a question and I'm going to phrase this poorly but to the effect of would you be willing to have filled houses if it meant that it increased your taxes? Would you be willing to have filled houses if it meant that they were privately funded and it did not increase your taxes? Or would you prefer not to have filled houses? Because I I think there are people who would say, "Yeah, I'd like a filled house if X, Y, or Z, like I don't want a tax raise, but I'm okay if the kids have a filled house." And that would kind of inform my next next steps if we were to include a question. >> Do you think we need to have potential or more potential for private funding if we're going to ask the question? Because if we're asking it, they might assume that it's an option. [cough] Not really [clears throat] an option. I wonder if we should ask it. I just don't know how to begin asking about private funding if we're not willing to put a fieldhouse in if we get the funding or more likely what if one school finds a donor and one school doesn't then are we going to say yes I really need to know that before I start asking the questions so to me it's okay to ask the question like how much do you want a filled house. Are you willing to pay for it? Are you okay with it if you don't have to pay for it? Or are you opposed to a filled house? >> And they can check two out of the three if they want. >> Yeah. >> I doubt you're going to find >> private options for this big of a price tag. might fund a portion of it. But I would I'd love it if there was somebody with 120 million sitting around in their pocket, but I just we've we've had people try to fund raise otherwise for a lot smaller prices and they seem to fall through. I hope that I'm wrong. My concern with asking the three questions is if I read it and I say, "Oh, private [clears throat] funding, no option." I won't check that one where I have to pay for it. So, I don't know if we'll get >> it skew the results. that if I'm honest with you, that is likely the only case in which I will vote for a fieldhouse. So that's why I'd like to ask the question. >> You will only vote for a fieldhouse if there's private funding for it. >> It Yeah, pretty likely. I I'm really uncomfortable um with the social collateral that comes with asking for a bond that does not relate directly to education. >> Why are we doing this? >> Yeah, good question. Because there was a majority that wanted to >> if you're asking me >> because to me the private funding is a total different question. I think you pursue that elsewhere. I mean, because if if someone's willing to come and pay for them, do we need to ask the public maybe ongoing cost, but I don't know that we need to do a big survey if we're going to get this privately funded. The reason I I'm doing it or I'm willing to do it is because we've had specifically coaches at our high schools that have that have asked for more space. And the only way the best way that we've come up with to address that question is well let's see if the public is willing to pay for it. That's why I'm willing to go through this process is to help answer that question for several of our coaches and you know other even students who are interested in it. >> Technically only one group though, right? Publicly at least like I'm surprised with people in my community associated with athletics that are against this. And so maybe what we really ought to do is ask all of our programs, are they interested before a whole lot more? But I don't know >> what what reasons have you heard that they're that athletic people are >> they don't want to pay any more taxes. >> I posted on Facebook and got a pretty big push back. I was shocked by the people pushing back because it was be most beneficial to them. So maybe because it was only just one group and maybe we've heard from a few other groups, but maybe the survey really ought to be geared towards our programs first and say, "Do you want this?" >> I don't know. Well, independent of fieldhouse discussions, I have heard several complaints from student athletes and parents about lack of practice space or quality of space, but it wasn't in the context of is a fieldhouse the solution you want. So, I think it is a known issue. The solution is unknown. So, similarly to the way that the suggestion I made of including a privately funded option on the survey, I'm even more concerned about going out to our coaches and saying, "Hey, do you want a fieldhouse?" I I would like to do that once I could deliver it. >> But if they don't want it, then why are we trying to offer it? But I'm just saying I think that the people that you saw primarily on your Facebook post were likely taxpayers, not coaches. And the suggestion was to go to our schools and ask if our schools want it. And I think that's probably a no-brainer. I would hope >> and I I I believe that this discussion and decision to um survey comes out of responsiveness to um the people some of the people that we represent and I I am interested in what people think um and however we move forward with finding out if we decide we need to ask um the coaches and students first. Um, we can do that. My experience has been that um, coaches and students have thought it was a good idea. Um, other people have had different thoughts about it than I've talked to, but I want to be responsive to the groups of people who came and wanted us to look into this. So, and that's exactly the reason why I was okay with surveying. But I'm just saying it would be there are big hurdles that would have to be met before I would vote to bond for only filled houses. And I I'm even uncomfortable with the the way it comes off to say bonding is the only option. That's why I would add the question. Okay. So, I'm hearing a no on adding that question. Any other adjustments to the survey? Okay. So, what would next steps be? to Lighthouse. >> Yeah. Once we have the approved language from this discussion, we'll just send that to Lighthouse and we will they'll conduct the survey. they will invite you to um actually I think they'll put together based on the survey results they'll put together focus group questions and then we'll have you review the focus group questions and then they'll schedule focus groups and then they will invite you to be behind the oneway mirrored window. by the way, we announce that you're back there and then people forget quickly and speak very candidly, very quickly. And so then you get to hear firsthand what the focus groups have to share. For those who do not attend in person, there's a report and then you'll have all of that. So they'll ask these questions, they'll come back with focus group questions. You can attend focus groups. Then we'll have a comprehensive report that they will give in person in board meeting and then you can make a decision about next steps terms of funding or other >> did we operations going forward >> the package that included focus groups? >> Yes. I'm thinking we did for some reason >> the board told us to start with the uh survey and then at that point once the survey results came back the board would give us further direction whether to do >> that's my mistake. I thought we had the whole process but we have that option. >> Yeah. >> So we can stop that at any point. >> That that was part of a big package that we're still looking at. Yeah. Now that you say that, I do remember that it's like depending on the results because if the results are very clear in one direction or another, you may not need the focus group. >> That's true. >> Maybe I'm just excited for the focus group because I love those focus groups. We learn a ton from those focus groups. >> Is everybody comfortable with that next step, beginning the survey? >> Yes. >> Okay. Anything else before we move on? Great. So, let's move on to our annual board meeting calendar. It's that time of year where we need to look at when we meet as a board over the next year. So, 2026. Um just for the benefit of those listening at home, our pattern has been that we meet on the second and fourth Tuesdays of each month. Um the study session on the second Tuesday and then the fourth Tuesday we begin with a study session and then go into a business meeting. So really what we're looking at here is times when that pattern might change and we're so grateful to um staff who's put together a calendar that points out some of those things to be aware of. So in August we have school beginning August 18th and 19th. We are meeting August 25th. If anybody has concerns with any of these, let me know. Um, one anomaly is fall recess falls during our regular meeting time. So, we're just proposing moving that to October 27th here. So, that's like the 5th Tuesday. Is that right? >> I think so. >> In that case, there's still a week between which worked out nicely. Um, Thanksgiving recess. This is a consideration begins. So, their first day off of school is November 25th. We would be meeting the night before. So, potentially some people could be traveling, but we do broadcast. Um, is that a conflict for anyone here? Not for me, but I did have a thought that usually on that second meeting of the month, we invite a school. So, I wonder if that being close to Thanksgiving, families might already be on their way out the door, you know, because school the bell rang and they're headed out of town. So, it's just a thought I had if whether or not students might come. It's also our staff you know you know we ask people to come including administration. >> So would you guys like to propose a different date for that month or are you just saying let's be mindful and maybe skip inviting a school on that week and just do it inhouse and minimize staff time in our meeting. Um, that month there are only four Tuesdays. So, if we chose to either move it forward or push it back, you would just have two meetings in a row, which has been done before. It's not a big problem, but >> I'd prefer to leave it on the 24th. >> I'm fine with it there. Let's just be mindful perhaps just because I am not a fan of having meetings back to back. Yeah, >> I I I would I would rather it be the 17th because you're also it's the night our patrons come too. So, we're asking our patrons to come um technically during the Thanksgiving recess because at least I look at the Thanksgiving recess as soon as school's out, it's over. But, I mean, if it wasn't a if it was a study session, I'd be less concerned. But, it's a general session. I I don't know um which days staff works. The students aren't here, but the the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, is that a day off for all staff also? >> Uh most well teachers are off that day, but most others work. >> So >> many others work. I should >> many others work. Okay. Yeah. Okay. >> Many of them take it off. >> Okay. But it is a a regular regularly scheduled workday for most staff that are not teachers or working in a school. Maybe >> it's a contract day for administrators >> and some ESPs, some other licensed employees, but many choose to take leave on that contract day. >> Okay. Thank you. Do you see this as a big ask for staff >> to meet on that Tuesday? >> We can do that. >> Members, >> I didn't answer your question. I don't see it as a big ask. I don't I don't see that as um particularly disruptive. >> I'm concerned less with staff and more with um patrons. >> I'm curious. I've noticed that many entities who are streaming their meetings now have provided an option for public comment. Is that something we're interested in pursuing so that maybe if you were on the go, you could still participate fully? >> I I have some concerns with um with patrons responding. I just think that I don't know. I I have some concerns that I I can't quite articulate about um just potential problems, but I could probably be convinced that these are not problems. [laughter] >> I think there [clears throat] probably are problems. I will likely work to defend the ability for emailed and comments and just because I have had people tell me that they felt afraid to stand up in front of a group of people who think differently than they do at times. And I believe that everyone should have a voice um regardless of your social anxieties. So, that's probably a conversation for a different time, but it sounds like not a huge appetite among the board to make an avenue for um call-in comment. Although after going to the uh Utah School Boards Association's conference and listening to um attending the breakout session about truth and taxation hearings, it is possible that um we might need to make that an option for certain types of hearings, but I I I right now I don't see it as necessary. for our regular board meetings. I like the emailed in comments for people who can't um attend in person. >> So, if people still have the option to email in a comment, are you comfortable with a meeting on November 24th? Um >> I am. >> Maybe just say no if you're not. >> Yes, me. >> Okay. So, should we go ahead and move on? Sorry. [gasps] Okay. Um, just pointing out December 8th will be the only meeting in December. So, just keeping that in mind. That's why it looks different in the columns. Um, then March 23rd is a board meeting. Spring recess doesn't start until the 29th. So, gives a good pad. Um, June we have just the one meeting for that month. So, just something to keep in mind. Um and then a proposal to have our board summit July 28th. So that would provide an opportunity if there was an urgent bid that needed to be taken care of during the month of July. It wouldn't leave us with such a gap. Um but we would that would be the the extreme circumstance where we would come together for a formal vote during that board summit. It's not intended to be just a regular meeting everyone. Okay. Does July 28th work? I know July is crazy. Can I ask a question on that? >> July 28th is listed as a regular meeting, but what you're saying is that's just in case. >> So, yeah, we would not hold a regular meeting that this would be um an opportunity just to vote on bids that were essential. >> That's the only piece of the regular meeting we would hold. No public comment, no consent agenda, >> and if there were no essential bids, we would probably not hold a regular meeting at all. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Are we having a summit on that day? So, we need to be in town for that. >> Yeah, >> I might have a problem with that. It's just I just get very limited days that I can actually take a day off and that's right in the prime time. So, I don't know. I mean, I can't commit that I can make it. Like, if I do >> you have to take a day off, no matter when we did a board summit. >> Summer is really difficult for me to the number of days I have to work and the number of days I can use vacation are really limited to me. So the board summit >> that prime week >> I think the proposal from the committee was that the board summit would be kind of a all day event. >> So I don't know if there would ever be a time when it wouldn't require taking some time off. >> Well what I'm talking about is for me and my family to go on a vacation is a difficult time. So July is just a really difficult time because it's really the only month I can just clear and free leave. Like in August I can take time off early in the month, but generally I have other meetings that I have to be in town if that doesn't make sense. So in order to get a week where I can leave, July is about the only time. But again, I don't have concrete plans then. But I might. We're looking at some things. got 28th instead of 27th. Oh, because I'm in the wrong year. [laughter] Sorry, I really pushed a lot of buttons. Sorry. >> If we have a later start, then that would >> Well, I'm telling there's a good chance I'm out of town. >> I see. Okay. >> If I can, >> but there's a good chance you'd be out of town any day in July. >> Any day in July. >> So, either we don't have a meeting in July or Daryl potentially has a conflict. Or I could um because I've done it in the past, if I can zoom in, then that would be that would be okay with me because I I've done that in the past where I'm out of town and I just >> So Darl, I would I would love to have you there in person, but as you have free will, you get to choose how to particip participate and I I hope that you will be there because I appreciate the interactions that we have as all board members together and I think it could be helpful and I also appreciate you making an effort to be there remotely or um if you can't be there in person. >> What I'm trying to say is August 4th and 11th there's a higher chance that I'm in town than July 20. I think the board in the in the discussion of what's different between a board retreat and a board summit, one of those was it's not just an addendum to a meeting. We want this to be a specific event. And so tacking it on to a meeting puts us right back to where we were when we said, "Let's just not even have it," which would be the case if we did it in August. But Darl, if you're not here, could we still have it at your house? [laughter] >> Probably easier can have it at my house because there'll be no other plans. >> Will there be salsa? >> I could ask the neighbor. >> You need to ask Brian. You need to ask some salsa ready end of July. I know the way the weather's going. >> And the kids are talking about [laughter] >> as long as he's early this year. My only input is that I I just need it to be late enough in the season so that Brian's salsa is available. Other than that, I'll make myself available anytime. >> Could we potentially hold the Okay, hold on. I'm seeing >> I was going to say could we potentially hold the summit on August 4th, the week before our regular meeting, but I suppose what we're looking at is those bids if we need to approve things and that's where the issue comes in. So >> do that virtually. >> Fully skipping the July meeting last year seemed to to make some complications for staff that we would prefer to avoid if we can. And quite frankly, I missed you all so much. I missed you, too. [laughter] >> Oh, don't talk to us about that when >> it's too long. >> If you if you look at my summers, most often that week's gone. Mostly because I can couple it with the 24th and the vacation becomes a little bit longer where August 4th there's not nearly the conflict. I would say more times than not, I'm out of town those last two weeks. How far? >> I was Alaska last year. >> I I I was >> Should we meet on the 21st before Montreal another year? >> The 24th of July. >> Should we meet on the 21st before the 24th hits? >> Like I said, it's usually the last two weeks is when we're gone. But I I'm good. I mean, if I'm the only one, I can >> It's true for all of us that it's it takes some sacrifice to meet in July. We all have families that we love to spend time with, but >> I'm not able to take other time during the year is what I'm trying to say. And so it's a little bit different if I had a job um where I could just say, "Hey, I'll take this week. I'm really only giving them one month." And maybe what we can do is cross that bridge when we get there, provide a virtual option if necessary and get creative. >> Be totally different by then. >> Okay. So, is is the board interested in changing the date or would you like to move on? >> I would like to move on. So I think those are the highlights without sitting there and naming every date. Um I will accept a motion to >> Can I actually make a comment? Is it possible just for Flo for me to move the budget hearing date to the top? >> Oh yeah. The year is wrong on that budget year. >> It should be June 9th, 2027. >> June 9th, 2000. >> And that's why it's down at the bottom. >> Gotcha. Thanks for pointing that out. >> Cuz [clears throat and cough] the budget here in June is on last calendar. >> They even put it on June 19th. >> Could we put an asterisk next to the July 28th at the top and just say that is the board summit instead of having it listed twice at the top and the bottom? I think this document was mostly for our use today. It will be published on the website differently. >> Okay. >> And and it's like each each type of meeting, you know, all the regular board meetings and the board summit, then the study sessions. I mean, because it doesn't they're not all in order. This document is for the board's preview which would then be approved in a subsequent meeting and then we're required to post it not only on our website but in public locations >> and and I'm just saying that they're different days because as I was looking at it I missed all of the study session dates because they were off to the side. [laughter] So >> I did the same. >> Okay. But in in terms of the dates themselves, not the layout of the document, everyone's comfortable moving forward. >> Yes. >> Great. I don't do we need a formal vote to adopt the >> Not until [clears throat] it's on his consent agenda. >> Okay. [snorts] Okay. Then we can move on to item 1D, annual statements and trainings as per board policy GP 103, board members principles of operation conduct and ethics. Mr. Larson. Hi, good evening. See if I can uh get this up. Okay, so uh a lot of this is very similar to last year. So the these are just reminders and of different things that are required and some other things that are offered. So there are six different items I'm going to go over tonight uh briefly. Um one the required conflict of interest disclosure. Two the required USB board member training on hotline and the number three the required USB training on audit committees. And then four uh GP 103 has a required ethical behavior statement. Five and six are suggested trainings. Uh five offered by the state auditor and then six is USBA. So number one uh statute requires the board to uh submit a conflict of interest disclosure every year. Um sometime between January 1st and January 31st. This will be posted on our website as we have done this year and it will remain on there until the board member has left the board. Um it does have to be >> new one every year, right? >> New one every year. Yep. So if if you're still on the board 12 years from now, you're going to have 13 listed cuz last year's plus the 12. Um it does have to be submitted by January 31st. And if it's not, then some very uncomfortable things happen and I'm kind of begging the board, please don't put me in this uncomfortable situation. I have to then notify the board member to submit it again. And then you're given 7 days. And then if it's still not submitted, then I have to do those three uncomfortable things listed. >> As a board member, you may want to ask yourself whether it's worth $100 to put John in that sort of situation. [laughter] It very well may be worth $100 and you could probably get a collection going to do that. [laughter] >> Is it karaoke and dancing? >> Um, so let's see here. So our legal council has put together a conflict of interest disclosure. It is on board book as well as uh here. And that's all I'm going to say about conflict of interest disclosure unless anyone has a question. Is the one in the policy online still updated and accurate? Because that's the one I linked from. Okay, perfect. >> Y [snorts] um >> can we email that to you? >> Yes, if you'll send those to me, I'd appreciate it. Number two, this is a new one and [clears throat] we had talked about this a couple months ago, but USB just changed their rule about uh requiring board members to see some a a training for hotline reports. This is a YouTube video that is 30 minutes long. So, it's required. Um, there is no reporting mechanism. So, I'm just asking you to do it so we're in compliance with USB rule. Any questions on number two? >> Is that the video that you had sent in an email >> ago? Whatever it was, I watched the 30 minute video. Um, I could resend these in a video. These are all in board book linked >> with a list of them. >> So, I'm unsure which one because there are uh number three is going to go over more videos that USB requires. >> Okay. And this one is not a part or wasn't last year a part of master board certification? >> It was not. No. >> So, I can make that request. It's nice when all the required ones are in one spot. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is new. >> Yeah. This is brand new. When we talked about this a couple months ago, the board asked, "Well, how fast should we watch this?" And at the time, I said, "Well, there is no deadline within the rule, but it does ask that you watch it." And the rule is implemented in in place. And at that time, I said, "Well, I think if you do it by the end of Januaryish, you'd be fine." Was my own opinion. Nothing official. And that was kind of to go along with all of this other stuff. Okay. Number three is a continuation. This is the audit committee training. And this would normally be done every two years in our district because we change committees every two years. But if you have not done this training, I'll just remind you that to do this. If you're on the audit committee, you get to watch an hour and six minutes. >> Woohoo. [laughter] Losers. three videos and if the other four board members just have one video of 35 minutes. >> Woohoo. [laughter] >> My greatest moment of 2026. >> And again, there is no required reporting on this. I just ask you to do that so that I feel comfortable that it has happened. Um the auditors will ask me if it's happened and I tell them, well, we go over this every year. So, uh, GP 103 does require, this is a self-imposed requirement that the board placed upon themselves to sign an ethical behavior statement, and the board asked for a similar statement among employees. And the that request was added for both you and employees in an effort to be able to put a check mark on one of the state auditors uh, suggestions, how to avoid fraud in an organization. So, this one I would ask if you would please sign this and email it to me. Then I have it. I don't frame it or anything. I just set it aside. >> Just do it and have one here that everybody signs in board meeting once. >> I could print it right now if you wanted and pass it out. Would that help you? >> Love that. Yes. One last thing on my to-do list is a yes. >> Once once I'm finished here, I will do that. Okay, number five is state auditor suggested training. I bring this up because what prompted those earlier discussions was a desire among some board members to do some trainings that the state auditor had. And so this is not a requirement, but it is one of the things that we could put a check mark on if everybody does it. Uh so again, it's suggested, not required. If everybody does it, then I'll put a check mark on. again, >> please. It bugs me when it's not checked. >> I know. Me, too. >> It just bugs the heck out of me. >> The one who was like, >> "So, this open and public meetings act training that is something that we did if we did the master board certification, right? Or I mean, is it the same one?" >> No. >> Oh, it's >> all these groups have a different one. >> Okay. So, >> the state auditor has has theirs, USB has theirs, and USBA has theirs. And uh tonight Paul will be going through it again because we we are required there is a statute that requires us to make sure that the board and uh top level administration have been trained annually on open and public meetings act. So I don't have evidence of that. So Paul will give a quick training after I'm done here. But if everybody were to uh give some positive or [snorts] got the USBA master board certification, that would also qualify. And then we we could skip the next agenda item next year if you want it. But it's just we're trying to be sure we're compliant with that law is all. Um and then the last one is USBA suggested training. They have these items on the USBA uh master board award as well as this one, this book uh the guide to effective boards. So that's my reminders. So here's what I need is by January 31st, those two documents, conflict of interest, ethical behavior, and then any board member who hasn't already watched those videos to watch them. Any questions or discussion about these? I know this is the funnest thing you do all year. [laughter] >> I have some discussion, but I'll save it for when we review our policy. >> Okay, thank you very much. >> Great. Thank you. Good reminders. And um please make sure that you don't put Mr. Larson in a position where he has to beg. So, just get her done. Um, let's go ahead and move on to our board compliance with open meeting law training and we will turn the time over to Mr. Paul Vanman. There we go. Um, as as Mr. Larson mentioned, I think um we can go through this faster um than in years past. recently. Um, there have been made available these online trainings and they're short. Um, they're simple, they're straightforward. A lot of you have had the training before. So, I've been trying to cut down on my training and we could make it even so we don't do it if you do the USB uh, US Utah School Boards Association or the auditor. I would suggest at least doing the auditor's training because it's necessary for some of those other things. So, just did that. It would be fine, too. So, um, really I'm just going to cruise through this. We know it's statutory. I'll also be emailing you the updated open meetings handbook um that's put out by uh your school board association every year. Our office actually is the one that keeps that up to date. Um, it applies um to public bodies. We're a public body to matters within our jurisdiction. Um, so what is a meeting? there can be some uh you you often ask me is this a meeting do we need need to take minutes or that sort of thing you can always go back to the definition section um and as I always say well it depends on what's going to take place um so um and what you're going to do so key definitions include a relevant matter and whether you're going to receive public comment >> deliberate about or act upon um also if there's a quorum [clears throat] Um the requirements for a proper open meeting are are in short form notice um meeting at the proper place act within the scope of the noticed agenda. Again that's important. Sometimes an open comment se session we say we can't take any action um on on open comment. Really what what it is is it's not because it's open comment is we're not taking action because it's not noticed on the agenda. Um, so there is a subtle distinction there, but we're not we don't take any action on that um because it hasn't been properly noticed up and then if we keep a proper record um and Mr. Larson does a good job with that. Um >> question on that last one, Paul. Yeah, >> I think I have yet to be in a in a meeting where someone makes a comment and uh someone from the public makes a comment and a board member says anything. Maybe once or twice, but I think what you're saying is it's okay for us to say something. We just can't act on it. Is that >> Well, your own policy is is sort of that you don't engage uh in back and forth. I don't think it's a good idea to engage back and forth. Um I I just the the reason that we don't take any action, it's not because it's public comment, but taking action is bec it's it's under this this provision that an item has to be on the agenda in order to take action. So there's a just a subtle legal distinction there. And and I think that it it's appropriate during board member comments and um committee reports if you have a comment you want to say about something at that point. I think we're elected representatives, we can comment whatever we want to during board member comments. I mean, you know, we want to keep it family friendly, but yeah, >> I was just I was under the impression, I think erroneously, that we just had to remain silent even if there was like a correction or if there was a question asked and we wanted to just add a quick clarification that was like off limits primarily because you want to keep it in the three minutes and if you start interjecting it, it becomes an exchange back and forth. forth. I I would not suggest that um and the board president actually can control whether or not somebody makes a comment. Technically, you should ask before you just jump in and make a make a comment and and see if that's permitted. So, um we've been over the proposed annual notice. Um things can change. Um typically, you have to give at least 24hour notice. Um so if something changes um at least 24hour notice um certain topics have other additional notice requirements. Um but of course if there's an unforeseen um event or an emergency you give the best um that you can that's practical. Sometimes that's not within 24 hours an emergency can arise. um you just have to be able to show um good faith and that you've contacted other members of the board to call an emergency meeting, that sort of thing. I'm not I'm not going through everything. Um public participation, um an open meeting is not the same as a public hearing. We've been over this before. Um in certain uh circumstances in a hearing, they have a a right to make public comments. Um, for example, the budget process requires a public hearing. Um, it's different when it's just your your um open meeting. Um, we are allow required now under um fairly recent legislation over the the past few years to allow for a reasonable opportunity for public comment on matters that relate to the board's authority. Um, it doesn't include work sessions um and some others. Um often questions are about a proper closed meeting. You have to be in a properly noticed open meeting. Um then um the board has to authorize the closed meeting. Then you have to hold the closed meeting for one or more of the there are typically seven that apply to school boards um permitted purposes and keep the required records or documentation of the closed meeting. Um for most matters you have a recording. There are um instances and you're aware of this where you don't have to record, but you can just keep um documentation and Mr. Larson does a good job of helping you know when that is. Um authorizing a closed meeting. Um I know we still do a roll call vote. Um that was a law that was passed. That law was very quickly taken out. So you actually don't have to do a roll call vote, but you do have to list the vote on the minutes. So, a roll call vote is an easy way to get that. Um, that's why I've never said anything about it. But, um, you could just do a all in favor and and know who says yes and who says no. >> So, you could say unanimous and that would be noting or do I have to say? >> Yes, I think that would be fine. Again, it only takes a minute. Simplifying that. >> We started doing that because they there was a very brief window, but that's gone. The roll call vote is gone again. Um, it requires two-thirds vote. um you're never required to go into a closed meeting, but permitted to do so. And um in the open portion of the meeting, you're supposed to um announce the reason or reasons for holding the location. And we um we don't always do that. It's sort of implicit. So I, you know, going over this, you could say we're here in the J South just on the recording. You might want to to make that. Um, I should have taken the roll call vote out. Sorry I didn't update that. Um, and that's included in the minutes. So, >> so do I need to announce the location because I might in that, >> right? Technically, it's technically you're supposed to say where it is under the under under grammar. Um, so you could just say we're we're here. >> Um, so um and that and that's more I would just put it on the recording because if the recording has to be heard, maybe you're not. Maybe a judge if they're listening to it, they don't know where you're at. So, um um the purposes are listed. Um often we talk about the discussion or character or professional competence or physical or mental health of an individual. Um the exception is of course you can't talk about uh in close session somebody filling a board vacancy. Um back in play is strategy sessions to discuss collective bargaining. Um strategy sessions uh about pending or reasonably imminent litigation. Um certain real estate purchase exchange or lease transactions. Uh and again it's not everything. So we need to be aware of that and tailor comments and discussion so that it fits within um the permitted purpose. Same for sales um of real estate transactions. Um certain security matters and there are some confidential procurement which we rarely um do but you could you could go into close session for as a procurement board. Um so basic compliance is again in summary first properly convene an open meeting you uh have the proper vote you address only the appropriate permitted topics and you keep the required recording or meeting any discussion um again I I would suggest this is um the link I think John has it they've updated it for this year um it it applies to your your other certification. So um short and straightforward questions, discussions if not I I have a question. So, um after strategizing in a close session meeting and then the event that was strategized about um those recordings become public or do they have to be grammar? >> No, they can't even be grammut. There are they're they're very protected if there's a challenge to whether or not the closed meeting. there are provisions and basically it is a judge has to listen to the recording and make a determination whether or not it was in compliance. >> So, so nothing in a closed meeting is ever >> No, it is if if if if you if if a board or other public body is off of a permitted close session topic that can become public. >> Thank you. >> And there can be other consequences. So, you want to stay on topic. >> Okay. But then the closed session does not ever become public. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> Should typically if it's again if if you stay on topic unless a judge orders it be disclosed. >> Oh, I see. >> And you should maintain I guess in the same way what you discuss in closed meeting, you should not talk about um outside of the closed meeting. >> Thank you. Other questions before I Okay, thank you so much. We It's one of the nice things about attending a conference with other boards around the state is we realize how blessed we are in Jordan and Paul Vancoman is a great example of one of our blessings. We're we're very grateful to have his expertise in the room with us. Okay, let's now move on to a review of board policies GP 100 through 107. Um, and hopefully everyone has already taken the opportunity to review these. So, we'll turn it to Mr. Dunford to lead a discussion. >> While the policy committee is coming up with a calendar for these, we thought we'd begin with the GP policies. And we just kind of drew a line at the seven 107. Um, there's no required discussion here. What we'd really like to do is is there a question, a comment, a concern, a proposal for a change. Those are the things we'd like to talk about. If you don't have any if you don't have any of those, there's no action needing to be taken here. >> I just have like clarifying questions. Uh oh. in GP 105. Um, >> do we want to go in order? >> Sure, I can. I This was just how I listed my question. >> I just know we're going to be chasing around trying to find where you mean. >> All right, let me also get there so I can >> So, go to 105 now. >> No, I will start you at the beginning then. That was just where I started my questions. >> Sorry. >> No, you're fine. >> I'm just thinking others might have questions. we can go through each policy maybe and bring in our questions. Okay. So, I'll start with GP 101 unless anyone would like to start with GP 100. >> I had an I had something I wanted to mention on 100. >> Go for it. to is to ensure that Jordan school district achieves appropriate results for students at a cost comparable to like school districts. I I something about that doesn't sit well with me. like school districts. I don't it um I don't like the sometimes the justification for a decision that the board makes there. Sometimes there's a justification that this school district is doing it. So that's why I'm voting to do it or that's why we should do it. And I don't want to suggest that there aren't lessons we can learn from other school districts and other boards and the decisions they've made um and the experience or the data that they've gathered. But I don't I don't like that idea of my one of the pillars of my governance is did it work at another school district? I mean, I'm not I'm not terribly interested in what the five member and seven member school districts are doing around me. Granted, like I said, there are things that I can learn, but I don't I don't like Can I clarify this? We're talking about expenses here. We're not talking about policies or practices. We're saying we spent about what other people are spending so that the public knows we're not overspending. I would argue that's important. >> I would argue >> we're not spending for buses what other districts aren't spending. That's the that's the setting here is we're our expenses are comparable to other school districts. >> Yeah, we've we were just talking about how other school districts have spent money on fieldhouses as an example of finance. And I would never want to say, "Well, since this school district decided to spend money that way, then I also want to spend money that way." It just seems >> No, I think what it's saying is if we do decide to do filled houses, we should look at other districts and see what their rates were so that we're not an outlier except the high side. >> There's many times we've done things a lot less, but we want to make sure we're comparing our costs to other districts to make sure that we're not above them. Except for teacher salaries. >> Except for teacher salaries. And we know where that led. >> Even then I don't want to be the very top. Sorry teachers. >> But even then we always want to know how do we compare. It's it's a means. It's a check for public to say my district isn't overspending because they're spending about what other districts are spending. >> I think it's it's worthwhile to track that and to make comparisons. I guess what I'm questioning is it's in GP 100. It's it's at the very top level of our governance policy. You know, I think it's it's definitely worthwhile, but I >> Yeah. >> Would you feel more comfortable with language like considering the costs at neighbor districts or like districts rather than >> we're going to spend comparable to them, but we do consider it. >> I I just don't like it in there at all. >> Okay. >> Comparing it. Look at the rest of the line. We're comparing it so we avoid unacceptable actions and situations. That's the whole line. You have to read the whole line there. >> I did. I read the whole line many times. >> And why would I I >> so that we if we're not comparing that to other districts and what they're doing, we could be an outlier. We could be offering programs that we shouldn't be offering. we could be charging and and having expenses larger than >> why do I need why do I need to know what another school district has done to determine whether what I'm doing is unacceptable or not >> and and I'm curious what um like school districts mean? Does that mean um similar breakdown of socioeconomics, similar breakdown of atrisisk students? Does it mean number of students, number of schools, geographical area? because what we're like third largest school district in the state and so I don't think we even have that many peers to compare to and and I I see the value in looking at other districts policies and um but I I feel like I understand what Brian is saying I just because it's hard for me to wrap my head around even what like school districts means >> I would feel comfortable crossing out that sentence [cough] and putting something like the board strives to ensure that resources are used responsive responsibly and efficiently. And then if we decide personally or as a board we want to compare to a district, there's nothing stopping us. >> And and I have I also have a question about this agenda item. I need to look um so we are to make suggestions for revisions if desire if needed. So that's what we're looking >> necessarily have to word smmith it right now but we can say >> we want this to be comfortable policy committee can you bring back a recommendation >> okay >> I I support this view and saying what is the principle we're trying to get at with this statement and can we take away comparing to other districts because if all districts around us are failing >> it becomes irrelevant right >> or if they're for spending. So what's the principle behind the statement that we can all gather around and then interpret it by comparing to other districts if one wants to. So >> I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm glad that you mentioned that because that was one thing I was thinking. What if all the school districts around us are overspending? What if they're taxing more than we want to tax? Well, then we avoid the unacceptable actions and situations as the line implies. It doesn't mean that we have to do what other districts are. It just says we compare to make sure that we're not overspending. >> No, it says at a cost comparable >> cost comparable to like districts and avoids unacceptable actions and situations. So, the only reason you're comparing is to make sure we're not an outlier, that we're not over expending our expenses. But if you're not going to compare yourself to people who are like us, then what where's your standard? You're saying, "Let's not let's throw the standard out and we can just decide whatever we want." >> That's what I want. I want to decide whatever I want. I want this body to decide whatever we want to decide. And I I would like the policy committee to look at this sentence and the idea like Suzanne was saying like what do what are we hoping this how this how are we hoping that this idea will guide us and um I don't know I I would like the um the policy committee to look at this sentence personally. >> Duly noted. Perfect. All right. Anything else in 100? Great. And then we can we can talk more about it once we have something to talk about a proposal on the table. Okay. What about in 101? Going forward through all of these. Is this the pattern that we want? Is is someone mentions a concern, we talk about it for a second and then decide whether or not we want the policy committee to look at it. Is that what we're trying to do then? >> I think it can be or if you wanted to take note of something. I don't think it has to be a proposal for a change, but um like if you notice something, oh, I could improve on this or I've noticed our practice has strayed from that, I think it's okay to point that out. But yes, if there are if there are things that you you'd like to review, this would be a great place for that. And the reason for that is the determination of policy is the responsibility as well as the prerogative of the board. This is how we govern. You need to make sure the policies match how you want to govern. >> And I really appreciate in letter A, the board of education is the initiator of policy. We're not just a reactor to staff initiatives. Um, that's a good thing to keep in the forefront of our mind as we do art board work. That's where I would just like some clarity on that sentence you just read. Um, was what is our highest priority when it comes to policy itself? Like should I be just looking at board policy first and foremost? How actively should we be looking at all of the other policies we have or does that just kind of come with comments and concerns we hear from the public and constituents? I was just looking for some clarity on I don't know because we have a lot of policy so I'm like okay do we need to be reviewing this every single year right >> it's a big job but it's the prerogative of the board >> right >> the policies comm the policy committee has now now has the responsibility >> to review all policies and propose changes to the board >> and that doesn't necessarily mean they'll get to every policy every year, >> but we'll >> we'll do our best. >> We'll set a schedule and and work towards a review of our own policy. >> Okay. Anything else in 101? >> 101 uses the term policymaking principles that we will govern with excellence in such matters as policym principles. I was curious what what that means exactly or or if we have like a canonized set of principles that we should adhere to when we're creating policy. I mean, I think it's a great idea that here's some here's how you create a good policy. >> Yeah, >> but I don't know how to do that. I guess I could ask chat GPT. won't tell you the image that flashed or >> is there a set of principles that we try to adhere to? Is that canonized anywhere or do we just let >> Anthony and his team propose policy for us? >> I think that that's actually a smart policymaking principle relying on experts. Um, I don't know of a canonized list of policymaking principles, but >> I think that we exemplify it with thorough conversation, thoughtful discussion, and preparation for meetings. >> Nor do we want to qualify the board's values and perspectives. Can you tell me which number you're at when you >> B >> the policym principles? I think that our board has for a long time felt somewhat resistant to the idea of a policy committee because we are so thoughtful and involved in our own policy. Um, and I think the two can exist together and I'm glad that we're trying it at this point because I think it will make us better aware of our own policies and keeping them up to date. But um I feel confident that our board holds that responsibility carefully and >> thoroughly. >> I like how you describe that, Nikki. I I agree. I think we take the time, the thought, and then we bring in the experts to take our thoughts and [laughter] make them into a policy. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I like that. Well, and then bless them when they've worked and worked and worked and then they come and present it and we pull it all apart again. [laughter] >> We are happy to provide a starting point for discussion always on on uh policy. >> We're so grateful. Okay, let's look at GP 102. Are we ready for 102? So, one thing that I noticed was in letter A, um, number four, we list minutes, audio recordings of board meeting. I wondered if it might be time to include this or update this to include video since it is something that we as a board have adopted to provide for our constituents. >> Yeah, I think that's good. Julie noted >> simple ad. >> Tell me where you would add that. Sorry, I'm just >> uh letter A. Number four, >> audio and video recordings. >> And do we always need to have the audio recordings separate, Mr. Larson? Is that a rule? >> Yeah. Yes. Audio audio recordings is actually what's recorded required. Sorry. Video is not. that is something we've chosen to do >> and and so I don't necessarily want to add video in case there comes a time when it's not feasible. I like how it says this includes but is not limited to. >> Okay. >> And I like having the required there but not adding something that's not required as what we do. >> Okay. I would I would add it and take it out if we ever think we need it. >> Yeah. >> I I can't see a time that we're not going to have video. >> Well, my question is would you have to video record closed sessions if we're audio recording them only? >> No. >> What if you said and could include maybe we let policy committee ponder that line and bring back a recommendation. >> Duly noted. >> Is that okay? >> Anything else? Can I ask a question about the use of the word owners in policy? And it may just be a word used in education, but it was an odd word for me when I was reading these policies. Instead of residents, is that what it meant? Where I'm looking at a create connection between the owners in Jordan School District. I think it's a key understanding who owns this business and we are responsible to the owners. >> So like taxpaying owners. >> So >> see the problem is I have a different allegiance to a stakeholder like a legislator who has a a say and the owners. I have a different allegiance to those who provide the financial backbone of this district than other people who have an interest in its success. So, we have chosen to keep the word owner as a reminder that there is an organization who provides the financial backbone of all that we do in this district and that grants them certain privileges. They are the owners and they selected us to represent them. Heavy when you think too hard about it. Uh, is that a a proposed examination of that or are you comfortable leaving it? >> The policy committee chair was rather convincing. [laughter] >> He usually is when he >> All right. Nothing else here. Then let's move to GP 103. I always appreciate a quick reminder about my ethical obligations when it comes to social media. It's it's a good policy for me to review once in a while >> in preparation for board meetings. I >> Yeah, >> it's interesting that right in our policy we say making policy decisions without submitting to political pressure. Good reminder because we definitely have it applied especially this time of year. Where is that one listed? E4. The next one E5 I had a I had a little bit of concern about port E says board members shall honor the high responsibility responsibility that board of education membership demands by and then five says representing the entire school community not just the precinct from which the board member was elected and and I think I understand the intent there of of course we don't I'm I'm interested in um hearing listening to anyone who lives within the district, but I represent the people in district 2. Those are the people I represent. So I I don't know. Those are the people who elect you, but I would argue that you represent everyone in the district, much like anyone who votes for state law on the Hill just represented me, whether or not they live in my boundary. >> Yeah. I mean, I've I've heard legislators say things like, "If someone reaches out to me via email and they're not in my voting district, I don't even read the email. I don't represent them." Shame on them for that. >> It's impossible for them to do it though. And you do have >> a loyalty to those who elected you, but we have a responsibility for the collective group. >> And and Brian, I generally think of it as um as I'm considering something. When I think of the whole school community, I think of all of the employees and students. And then um as far as the I guess the owners, the stakeholders that I am really trying to consider outside of that large group is the people within my district, the people that voted for me, if that makes any sense. So I think we are all responsible for um the employees and the students of the school district. um like I I feel like the students that's my highest priority, the high quality of education for the students. But then as I'm considering um certain types of decisions, I am thinking about like past how it will affect the district as a whole as far as the employees and the students. I think how will this affect my community, the people that I'm here to represent? Because I think we are from diverse areas and and I think it's important important that um we represent the people who are supposed to represent. >> I'm here to give voice to people that live in Bluffdale and part of Riverton. I that's what I'm that's my that's that's the voice that I'm representing here. But I totally agree. Yeah. I I'm I'm interested in the students and the staff and the rest of the owners, but but I'm primarily here to give voice to the people in district 2. and and maybe that's understood in E5, but when I read it, I just it kind of stood out to me as a question. the word representing. >> I think we hold a responsibility to um consider the big picture and if I am voting for my potential reelection, [cough] I don't think that I think that's what the policy is trying to hit on. >> It's conduct and ethics. >> Yeah. I believe that a good example of this, there were several good examples of this during Moab when they really had to think conceptually of the district as a whole. I remember being a very concerned constituent and sitting in a meeting when Bryce Dunford recommended Analopee Canyon Elementary School, a school that was not even in his boundaries as a solution. That's the kind of district forward thinking that I think they're hitting on hitting on with this policy. So I find when I read these policies sometimes I want to say the same thing in fewer words. I'm not sure how much value that is to the board, but I do find myself >> simplify. >> Yeah, we welcome your word smithing anytime. >> I do what I will assert right now just because it's a personal pet peeve of mine is E2 using quotations when they're unnecessary. We can just say policym not administration without the quotes. I think [laughter] >> Ewan has quotes too. >> Otherwise, I'm a board member. [laughter] >> Would we like uh Mrs. Wood to send those wordsmithing things to the policy committee? >> Yep. Any of you ever have word smithing, send them to us. We're happy to entertain them. and and I I would love the policy committee um as you're looking at policy to um really consider whether or not quotation marks are necessary in the policies. >> Now that she said it like that, everything seems dripping in sarcasm in this. >> I'm not being No, I'm not being following the principle that I was sharing because I mean Yeah. Like did somebody else say students first and we have to put it in quotation marks because we can't claim it as our own or something, you know? Like I think >> students first. >> Is that is that a necessary use of >> way too much into this? Well, this is in the weeds. All they're trying to do is emphasize something like I don't know. >> Noted. I'm good with that. [laughter] I would like it when they have >> I would like to eliminate or change D4 that if I want to post on social media about things not in an open meeting, I do all the time anyways. I can post whatever I want. We want to share it in an open meeting. I think what they're trying to say is I don't share things in closed session, but I post lots of things that aren't on our agenda. We're not even talking about, hey, this is a innovative way other districts are doing it. I don't think it has to be an open meeting. Uh something on our agenda that I'm sharing. >> I think you're right that the intent was >> not we're talking about not sharing things that were from closed session. So >> okay, good catch. >> So maybe it should be changed, not just dropped, but changed to >> refraining from sharing anything from >> confidential or in close session. H4 or several of the numbers under H are kind of prescriptive in nature rather than rather than just kind of more general ways that a board member should meet his responsibilities to to the community. But but four suggests that that as a board member, I'm supposed to vigorously seek financial support for the schools. I yeah, I really think that H needs to be looked at because I um [clears throat] I I believe that a board member can be very ethical and effective without doing all of these things. So like visiting schools regularly, what does that mean? Every month, every week, every quarter? I I think it doesn't need to be prescribed and it doesn't even need to be said regularly. So I I personally would like all of H to be looked at because I agree with Brian. It is very prescriptive and I don't think that it's it's necessary for board members to do these things and still be an ethical member of the board. I agree with that. >> More vision, less action. >> Duly noted. >> Well, and and I just think like responsibilities to the community. Anyway, I Yeah, I I'll say no more about this. [clears throat] Great. Well, we'll revisit that. I think um oh what letter are we on? I seven is a or eight is a good reminder for all of us taking action at the policy level rather than the operational level. >> I'm definitely at times guilty of overstepping that reminder. So it's good to reread it. Um, letter K, the statement of ethical behavior. I really appreciate that we have it. We got some great tips on um what could be included in that statement at our leadership academy. I'm curious if there's an appetite to revisit the wording there >> in in the actual statement of ethical behavior. >> Yeah, the statement's pretty vanilla when you read it. >> Gotcha. [laughter] >> But John just printed those out, didn't he? >> That's not for this year. We're signing that first. >> Not for this year. But it's something that we had tossed around an idea of um maybe doing at a board summit. >> Yeah. Let's look at it at the summit. >> Redoing the statement of ethical behavior. >> Okay. So, I think that one will be maybe a bigger undertaking, but unless you guys are just quick and whip it right out. I I'm curious, and this might be a little bit uncomfortable, but this is a pretty specific policy and it's setting some real standards for us as board members. What I don't see in here is clarity on what steps are taken for violations or so. I mean, I don't know if that is something the an executive committee just decides what if these get violated what they do or if we should prescribe options as far as or restricted to or what's the law or >> what recourse do you have? >> There's very little. very little you can do. You can write a letter of recom you know reprimand but that's about it >> maybe I mean the state participation on committees >> you could yeah you could pull off committee but we don't get paid like yeah punish me [laughter] >> I mean that's what a lot of them will do is they'll pull you off a committee but they are set up in a structure that they get paid for committees extra and so like pull us off a committee is actually not maybe putting you on >> don't throw me in that brier patch >> put you on some committees [laughter] But there's really nothing you can do like >> someone's not e unethical. >> At the end of the day, ethically speaking, our boss are the people who voted for us and they're the ones who get to fire us if we screw up. >> And that's >> so there are no consequences. >> I mean, we could do a a letter of reprimand. We can have close session discussions if we feel like there's like a conflict of interest or whatever there. I mean, we can have those conversations, but in terms of teeth, thankfully, we >> I'm not even necessarily looking for teeth. I'm just saying as an executive committee, if I break these, what can I expect will happen from you to me? Anything. You guys can fire us from executive committee, but >> we could probably do that. Like >> it's in our policy. >> And I don't know if I I [clears throat] don't think I would want some kind of um punitive thing within the policy. I I feel like it's the responsibility of the executive committee or the board to um figure out how they want to address some kind of breach of ethics or >> I think the spirit here is we are reporting to the public how what we hold oursel to. >> We are saying we are telling you what we consider ethical behavior of a of a of a board member. You can decide if your representative does not follow our policy, but we're not going to write anything within our policy to police ethical behavior of a board member. We just hold we just expect all board members to hold themselves to this standard. >> This is great conversation. Um I have a clarifying question not about the policy but about our practice. I have on repeat I have repeatedly told patrons I intend to vote this way on that decision and here's why I haven't made up my mind. Am I in violation of D2 in reassuring or gathering information, I have in the past said I intend to vote A or this way on that just so you know. So you can either tell me otherwise or you can reass be reassured stop the letters because I intend to vote this way. Is that a violation of D2? >> Well, here's here's the thing. Um make it appear they have already formed an opinion on matters that are before the board. It is very hard to not form an opinion of some sort. Um, I do think it is possible to not be certain how you are going to vote until after you've heard all that has been said. But, um, I think it might be a good idea to look at Yeah, I don't know. >> I think the spirit here is be closed-minded and not willing to hear something else. But I don't think it's a violation of my ethics to announce I intend to vote no on that. >> I think the pro I think where the spirit of that is you're not forming an opinion before you hear everyone else, >> right? >> Because you've already listened to everyone and you're like, well, this is where I am. So maybe could the committee look at D2 and um just see if there's a way that it could be said to go along with the practice. Yeah. And and personally, I I don't like to commit to feeling one way or another, but >> but there's comes a point where you feel like, okay, I know you're all writing to me, but I need to let you know that I intend to vote this way for these reasons. I've heard you >> convince me, >> so you don't need to keep convincing me to vote. Now, those of you who haven't, I'm very open to hear why I shouldn't. But I think there's always there's always been this need to say I intend to vote no to reassure a lot of people who are panicking over it till the very last minute. I don't want to be in violation of that policy. I don't think it's >> it's the violation of the spirit of the policy, >> but I think someone could claim that I have violated that policy if I have made a determination of how I'm going to vote before the vote. And I think it's also important to I mean if it's to actually I am in violation because one of these things says to speak clearly and concisely but um [laughter] that's just like really >> Can we do a >> point of order? >> I'll stop right here. >> I had some thoughts but I cannot get them clear or concise. [laughter] Well, I have a comment because D2 is under when on social media. So, have you done this on social media? Okay. I guess I don't follow you. >> That is a good point, Erin. That was a very good point. So, >> well, it was because of that that I stopped posting on social media. [laughter] >> I post. What are you going to do about it? >> But you're very clear at some point in the conversation to say, "Here's how I intend to vote." So all of you who are trying to convince me to do that, >> I intend to vote that way >> because I've gathered the information. I don't think that's a violation. >> See, this is where I would say it says when on social media, board members shall remain open-minded and cross it all out because it says even not post statements. Well, what if I'm on TikTok and I make a video? I'm not posting a statement, am I? Well, why do I need to stay open-minded [clears throat] [laughter] >> or undecided or whatever word, but oh, you're you're debating the whole principle, not the way it's worded. >> I think the principle there's some principles in there I think are really important and I've tried to do this. It's in mine and I probably do most more social media than most, but this is my opinion. I don't represent the board. I think those are really critical to be in there. That's why D1 is so important. >> Yeah. So, I wouldn't strike it, but but I'd be careful to prescribe too much on what we do. >> And I remember my uh new board member training. It something that really um struck me was um to not commit to a vote before the vote happens. >> Yeah. I feel like that was somewhere I read or it's been said multiple times to me that like you should try to be open-minded and not come already decided, you know, and set in stone because my mind has been changed as we've had lots of discussions andor emails have come in or I've decided to call someone and ask them about their opinion and and so I always yeah something about being openminded. I think not just on social media, but I do think it is important to not um and [clears throat] I appreciate that you're using the word intend. Um but I just remember that in the new board member training to >> that was a lot of people's opinions on what we should do as board members. I don't think there's anything binding in the new board training. I've been to it a couple times. I mean >> Okay. I've gathered enough information we can tweak it and bring back a proposal. Thank you. >> I do think when you are really staunch about especially in written format on social media, this is the right thing. First of all, it discredits board members who may feel differently because values are perspective driven. And I also think that if you switch, you might look a little wishy-washy if you're like, "This is what I'm doing ahead of the board meeting." And most importantly, I just I don't think public comment is ticking a box. I I think we actually value and take into account the things that are said there. And >> but is that unethical to do all that? That's what we're saying. It's unethical to say this is how I'm going to vote. >> I I always try to say things like at this point I'm leaning towards instead of saying my vote is closed and I am no longer accepting your feedback >> and someone could say that you have formed an opinion. >> Yeah. At this point >> and according to that that's a violation of the policy. You've formed an opinion. >> Not if she doesn't post it on social media. [laughter] That's right. >> Well, and I just want to say I don't know if it's a question of ethics. This policy is about conduct and ethics. So, there are things that are going to be in this policy that may not have an ethical dynamic to it. And I guess I would step back and say, what is the principle or the point behind this statement? Is it because we're trying to preserve the integrity of the board of the process that we're bound to follow by taking public comment? What is behind this? And that may direct how we phrase it. >> That I'm a listening board member and I'm open to hearing opinions that I haven't heard before. That's the spirit of it. And I think it helps to m maintain trust from the public if they can trust that we are open till the end till till we vote. >> Thank you. That's on the list. >> I think all of us form opinions along the way based on the information that we receive. And so this is my opinion with the information I have. If more information comes, my opinion will be formed slightly differently. That's just that's the process. >> That's how I operate. >> Not afraid to change my opinion if I have more information. But as of right now, here's my opinion. >> And and that's why I like that this is specifically for social media because it is >> it's impossible to not have some sort of opinion, you know? I mean, it the opinion can change and it does, but I I appreciate that this is specifically for social media. I can't share my opinion on social media, but I can tell everyone in writing I can everybody and say this is how I intend to vote, but I can't say it on social media. >> And and I I feel like it's it's specifically about a a vote, an agenda item that is a vote in in a board meeting. >> We'll work on it. >> And it's specifically about items that are before the board. So if the item's not before the board currently, it it's exclusive of this. >> I also think there's an argument to be made that under I sorry my page break keeps messing me up. I one if you are coming in not having prepared and how can you prepare without at least forming a soft opinion. >> Right. >> Right. That's part of preparation is to gather the information and prepare a plan at least in your mind. >> You start every science experiment with a hypothesis. >> Yeah. >> You just share it on social media and you just can't post it. [laughter] You can't post it on social media. >> I think these are best practices, too. I don't I don't know that they're hard fast rules. >> E7 and I1 might be redundant. >> Which one? >> Being prepared. Did I see that? Did I say that right? I1 and E7. They they're repetitive. >> So that's where I feel like maybe some words can be taken out. >> Oh yeah, I think you're right. >> Thank you. >> Dr. Godfrey, did you have a comment? >> I was just going to say that I think this board does a particularly good job of genuinely weighing input from the P and from staff, but from the public in particular. And that I think however this policy is written, I think it's it's designed to protect that reputation and to guide the board to practices that will help reinforce that relationship with the public. If you make if you email people and say this is how I'm thinking of voting, it is in fact different from posting it on social media because you back yourself into a corner on social media. If you make a declaration, then you may sit in a meeting and say, "They're making a good point, but I already told everyone how I was going to vote, so I'm not sure I can change that." And I have seen that over time. I just I love working for a board where all the discussions are genuine and when people are surprised at the length of our meetings, I explain that it's because they're genuine discussions. They aren't scripted pro-forma ceremonies. They are genuine discussions where feedback is meaningful and discussion is genuine. So, a public declaration on social media about how you're going to vote or even how you're leaning makes it more difficult to maintain that reputation for genuine engagement. >> I like the way you said that. And I do always hope that in our attempts to be civil with each other that we're not saying like, well, only an idiot would have made that vote. You know, and sometimes it can come off that way when you act like there's a right or a wrong. So, okay. Thank you. An advanced policy committee on [laughter] that one. >> Sounds like fun. >> Um, President, I move that we take we postpone the discussion on 104,56 and 7 and we stop here and take the feedback as this was a good discussion and we'll do four, five, six, and seven in our next meeting. I think what zero through seven was too big of a bite and now we know that and so I prop I move that we postpone the rest of this discussion for a future board meeting. >> I'll second. >> Okay. A motion by Mr. Deford second by Mr. Barnett to uh postpone the rest of this discussion for a future board meeting. All in favor say I. >> I. >> And any opposed. >> Right. Sounds like that passes unanimously. >> Back in 2012, it looks like when they put all these GPS together, that looks like a monumental task to actually draft all of this. And I'm sure they had something to go by. But I just wanted to thank the board of 2012 for this. There's a lot of good stuff here. I mean, >> the fact that we're just making a few little changes 13 years later speaks to the the quality of of these. Yeah. >> And I'll also say I visited a few other district websites to get a sense and there is no apples to apples. Everything is very custom and unique to that district, even in the the titles of their policies. We even have social media in 2012. [laughter] >> Yes. I joined in 2009 to show pictures of my new baby. [laughter] >> Wasn't it MySpace though? >> No, it was Facebook. >> Facebook. >> Facebook. One thing I really appre appreciate when I look at other boards policies as well is um our board values simplicity and we do not have as many as often boards do and I am grateful for that. Anytime we eliminate a policy that's what I'm going to go out and tell my constituents I did like [cough] took one off the books. Doesn't happen often. All right, let's move into a discussion on the information gathered by board members at the USBA conference. Um, I think it's important for our public to understand that we work hard to be highly trained boards that we seek opportunities to educate ourselves in the work that we have been entrusted to do. And this is one of several unique and valuable opportunities for us to learn. So, thank you to everyone who made an effort and sacrificed time with their families this weekend. It is a big ask and and for the way that you capitalized on that opportunity and squos out a lot of value. So let's go ahead and um talk about highlights that you think would be valuable for the whole group to share. Just for those who haven't attended a conference like this, um the format is such that we're not able to attend every session. And so as a board, we really try to spread out so we get the most opportunity. And so this is also an opportunity not only for us to reiterate what we've already heard but to learn from each other. So >> okay I would love to go first and I am just going to hit some highlights. Um something from the keynote spa speaker Kim Leair. um she has done extensive um research on generations, generational theory and something that I thought was very interesting that she has found is optimization versus convenience and for some generations convenience trumps a lot of things but for the upand cominging generations optimization um is very important and I have seen that and I I thought that it's very helpful in thinking about how can we optimize students experiences in public education. >> How can we increase attendance, right? >> Well, I'm going to get to that too. Yeah. Because I think that that is a big part of it. >> Really valuable. And then I also attended a a breakout sessions uh titled Start Fresh or Fix It Up. And this was presented by our very own Nikki George and Dr. Godfrey and Scott Thomas and um Dave Rostrom. And it it made me think some things too. you know, we've had this fieldhouse discussion and I am curious about the feasibility of creating um spaces for our athletic teams using portables um because there was a lot of discussions about portables and their versatility in the in the session that I went to. And so I thought that that was an interesting idea because there are portables that have been that are being used as dance studios at uh I think two middle schools maybe three middle schools in the district. So I thought is that an option that anyway and then um I went to another session titled driving success land trust program. Um, it w in in the land trust program. And something that this sparked in my mind a little bit was how can the board and the school district make decisions um as far as uh funding certain types of positions to allow school community councils to not have to pay for those certain positions. using trust lands money and that is something I'm going to be considering as we look at budget even then a a class that I really a session that I really loved was called remmoralizing the demoralized and um and so I'm I'm going to read some of my notes teaching is an inherently moral endeavor because it involves human relationships and judgments that impact others. And so this class, the presenter talked about the difference between burnout and demoralization. And burnout is in the context of an individual teacher, maybe just too many students, feeling exhausted, um just not having the resources that they they might need to to be successful or feel successful. Whereas feeling demoralized, it is when there are outside forces preventing a person from what they feel, preventing a person from doing what they feel morally called to do. And um one of the strategies that I thought was interesting to help with demoralization is to grow a culture of engaging teacher voice and choice and belonging in routines, traditions and processes. And something that really struck me was um and I really want to take this to heart is I want to create a place where the people in our district can do the work that they feel called to do. And I want to help them, the employees of the school district, to not feel demoralized like there are outside forces preventing them from doing what they feel called to do, which and I I'm talking specifically about teaching, but generally about everyone in our school district. And then the last um session I'm going to talk about is building better school attendance. And there was a lot of talk about data tracking and dedicated staff at school and district level. Um, and some a couple things that this session made me think about too is possibly considering district-wide policies so that we can have consistency in language and in data tracking and actions and also in training for various um staff members like um attendance specialists and hall monitors. also consistency and communication to parents and the community about attendance and uh a question that I'm interested in too is what what part a school board can play in this and um another thing that I thought was very interesting that was said and it made a lot of sense to me is that attendance is a symptom and so that's I'll also comment that I I went to the demoralization one as well and I found it very valuable um and a great reminder. Uh I learned more about land trust reviews and the role of school board members in that process. Um, and just for the sake of time, I'll just share one more thing that I actually heard from a board member. I think it was in Garfield School District. And she said there are four questions she asks herself or her board does. I don't know if it's just her. Um, before making a decision. What are the unintended consequences? Is it board work? Meaning, is it within the scope of the board? Uh, is it in the best interest of all students? And is it fiscally responsible? Thought that was a great um language around questions I can ask myself as a board member before I take action. Are we going in order? >> Sure. I mean, we've got a pattern going. Might as well keep it. >> Um, no worry. Um, yeah. I, you know, I've mentioned in the past these uh conferences are monumental to me. They do reshape my thinking a lot. And Kim Leair was pretty incredible. I'd never really thought about the differences of of the generation differences. Being a baby boomer and listening to her presentation now totally makes me understand my students and even my wife who's not a baby boomer. But um anyways um I do think the attendance class was prepared before they heard this talk and it was interesting to listen to that after having her understanding of how we sometimes take our gen uh our perceptions of where we grew up in our generations and try to apply it to other generations. And this is a very different education uh generation that we're dealing with and we need to kind of rethink the way we do education and the way we have things like attendance. I'm talking to my students, they just they just want to pass the class and get out. They don't want to sit in a seat. They just want to optimize and move on. And so, um, things like the Jordan credit center came to mind. Instead of trying to focus so much on getting kids to class, why don't we look at personalizing their education? And so when we do see somebody who has an attendance issue, we really what we ought to do the rewards and all that's great. I would propose that they're sometimes negative. I actually feel with our attendance dipping that I'm actually more healthy at school cuz kids are actually staying home. And it's personally been a benefit to me. But maybe what we really ought to ask is why is that student missing school and then identify solutions for them. I don't think very many students know that they can go take a test and not have to take the class. And so um I think we have to think more broad when we try to solve some of those issues like that. Um but again both classes were good. But I did ask her at the very end I went up and spoke to her individually. we've been [snorts] seeing some demographic shifts to uh people who are staying single or people who are entering into marriage but not having kids and she says that's happening here. She didn't realize that. She says that's happening globally. I didn't think it'd happen here where we value families so much. I asked her what the trend she felt it would be and she says 10 to 15 years. She says that what they're seeing in the research that she's seeing is that these groups are valuing their friendship groups more than they're valuing bringing children into the world. So, it was really kind of interesting to listen to that and how it may or may not affect us. I went to a class on using work for force services. I don't know what if we're using them or not. Um it was a really interesting class and as we personalize education this gives students an opportunity to I think they said there's 58 different occupations and they have a VR actually lets them we took a x-ray of a guy with a bow and arrow in his knee that was pretty >> [clears throat] >> um so anyways just really interesting that uh Utah workforce services has some programs we can tap into for our kids. Um, I think the class that was most influential to me, well, I did like, um, Andrew's class from Canyon's district on how to use AI and our board work. That was fascinating to me. And so, you'll see much more of my Facebook post that will be written by AI. And I can put the board um, policies in there and say write them according to this. So, I will not be out of line anymore. So, that's really cool. So, I didn't know that I can actually create different personalities as I interact with. So, we'll see which one I do. But, um, the most interesting one to me was the TNT one. Um, I learned some things that I didn't know and some things I wish I had known. Um, some things that I think as I look at Salt Lake um, county as they've kind of gone through a referendum. Um, one of the things I learned is that we should be prop proposing more than one budget. That we should propose a budget that if a if we vote yes, this is one of the budgets. If we vote no, this is a budget. When we did our big truth in taxation, we really needed to let patrons know. If we vote no, then we're going to freeze teacher salaries. We're going to lay off 5%. We have to come up with a budget as if it doesn't pass. The other thing I learned that I didn't know is I thought you had to vote on the night that we take public comment and I I found out we didn't. And why are we like I I hope that this board will never vote on a truth and taxation ever again. Um on the same night we take comment. We should it it does make it sound like we've already made up our mind and we don't really care about what you have to say. So, I think we should do like we do our other hearings. We should hear the public. We should give them time to weigh in after the fact and we should vote on a different night. I didn't know that we could do that. And so, but I think um I was talking to my faculty today. They're all signing the referendum. Um we saw the count uh county and I says, "Oh, so you don't want the library?" And they said, "What?" And I'm like, "Well, they'll probably just cut the library out. Like, why do we need a library?" and when they found out they would lose something like that, then all of a sudden they're not so excited to sign it. And again, I just made that up. But if they don't know the consequences of the not increasing their taxes, um but I do know that um one legislator said in their town hall of that that same night that you can blame the school boards for your property tax going up. And I think I made the comment online said bologoney um our legislators def decide how property tax is done and they make this law so confusing that even they have a hard time understanding it. And I just hope that we as a board would do more educating people and letting them know um how our property tax works and and what are the limitations that we have. So many people have have real hatred towards us because of this this lever that we have to hold. And so anyways, I learned so much about that and I'm I'm resolved to try to use this better as we move forward. um especially in in when we'll do a truth in taxation raising taxes. I was very grateful to be able to go to the USBA conference. Um I have been thinking a lot about what I've learned in my first year as a board member and I've been trying to be a sponge. And so as I went to the conference, uh, one of the things that was mentioned in a class, it was actually the one on attendance was that the speaker really wanted us to take away um, an action point like what are we going to act on after we get this information? So I took that to heart and tried to give myself action points for the other classes I went to. I say, "Okay, now what have I learned and how am I going to use this?" um to further my knowledge. So um I liked the attendance piece um and would like to learn more about how our schools track attendance, if we track it at a district level or if we should and coming up with ways that we could use our data to help increase attendance, help support our students. uh and possibly maybe this attendance piece as a JPAC topic for a future meeting. Um on Thursday afternoon, I was able to attend the joint legislative committee and I was really glad that I went. Um, we had Senator Filmore came of his own accord, which was nice to have him there and speak to schoolboard members from across the state. I was very grateful that Governor Cox's senior adviser of education, Rich Nye, took the time to came out and speak to us um, and just let us know what was going on and letting us be a part of the conversations. Um, there was a breakout session with uh, legislators as well. I went to one with Senator McCuel and Representative Miller and it was really nice to hear their questions for us and them answering our questions and getting their insight about the upcoming legislative session. Um, I felt very called to go to a class on Robert's rules of order. I wanted to support our school district and go to that class. Um, but I was with them in spirit and said that I I got to go to this meeting and it's it just makes me laugh because uh I don't know why I wanted to go to this one, but I'm really glad I did. It was intriguing to me. I learned a lot more. It was a good refresher course for Robert's Rule of Order. uh and reminded me that when I became uh PTA president or president-elect, I found our bylaws and just read them and highlighted them and they're like, "Okay, Aaron, I guess you really should be PTA president." But I'm excited. I've got a renewed interest in Robert's rules of order. And just some highlights that I learned of why we follow these rules um that I wanted to highlight. It says to give due re due regard to every member's opinion to listen for um sorry what did I read this listen to uh understand not to formulate a response to [snorts] focus on the merits of a motion not the individual personalities of the member who made the motion and to ensure decorum kindness and respect really liked that class and I also went to the truth and taxation one and that was very interesting to to learn about how that process works. Um yeah, that's it for me. I had a conflict of employment interest and I was only able to go to two sessions and not even the second one because two board members from other boards found me and we spent the whole time talking about related issues. So I think I what I appreciate the most about USBA is just rubbing shoulders with other board members and just being able to ask and be asked. Um, I I walked away from that conversation once again as I do quite often that I think Jordan School District is highly regarded and uh watched and um because I spent the whole I spent that whole second session instead of in one of the rooms answering questions about things our board has done. So, it was a great opportunity to talk to other board members. I think that's probably for me the great takeaway is rubbing shoulders with other boards. >> And don't forget to mention what happened. What happened at this conference to you specifically? >> Probably three times throughout that day, my watch kept saying, "Your heartbeat is really high and you're sitting." >> No, no, not about your heart. It was something else >> about the anxiety for the vote. >> Yeah, the anxiety. Um Jordan School District seat on the Utah High School Activities Association was retained. >> We have three we have three more years. >> That means that Bryce was elected to that position. So >> thanks for all you do for >> reelected. >> It's a lot of time, but I love it. I think that really speaks not only he's very gracious in saying how well respected our district is but how well respected he is as an institution throughout the state. So thank you for bringing your talents to our board. Lucky to have you. Okay. Are you done? I don't want to step in too soon. Um I just want to talk for a minute about the master board certification program. Uh this is a program that has evolved through the years and that is continuing to become better all of the time. Any of you who have gone from the years that I have where it was like a trifold pamphlet that you had to like mark kind of like personal progress goals. Anyways, it's changed. Um it is an opportunity for you to do a lot of the things that Mr. Larson mentioned today in his training to us and um I I am really growing to love it. I find that many of the things I'm already doing so it's quick and easy outside of doing the um trainings that are in there, but those trainings definitely make me a better board member. So, that is one takeaway from USBA that I think has really benefited me. um some of the things that I'll I don't want to go too much into detail. Uh but going back to this theme of the remmoralizing the demoralized, um it really was like somebody gave me the vocabulary to express a feeling. Um I hear frequently about teacher burnout. I think it's a misnomer. I think far more often what we see is demoralization. And the definition of that, not to re be redundant, but a deep sense of hopelessness and distress when teachers feel unable to do good ethical teaching due to systemic issues, feeling thwarted in their values, lacking autonomy, or seeking harmful policies prevent or sorry, or seeing harmful policies prevent them from serving students effectively. and that leads them to a loss of meaning. Um, I took that definition very seriously as a policy maker. Um, I I think that it is something I would like to keep front of mind because we have the opportunity to um bless our teachers and our all of the employees of the district. Um, some of the causes or sources were mandated content or scripted curricula. We've got to be so careful. focusing on cognitive needs while ignoring social or emotional needs, differing approaches to equity and diversity, everything, funding or resource limitations, everything that was listed there. And I won't continue pulling them out, but our teachers are facing systemically on a state level and in our district, we have an opportunity to provide as much autonomy as possible. Um, I am very grateful for the vision of Dr. Godfrey and his team in recognizing how important autonomy is at school level and in the classroom. I have frequently heard them advocate for um for making sure that we provide that space and in a world that seems to be inching closer to a real desire to know exactly what's happening in every class and making sure that it's completely transparent. This is something that we can protect for our teachers. And I will add that schoolboarding is an inherently moral endeavor as well. It involves human relationships and judgments that impact others. And um one of the most important things that we can do when we start to feel demoralized is going back to our moral core. So for me personally, the reason I am here is because I believe that children should be our main priority. And in the moments when I feel demoralized as a board member, it's so important for me to go back to that core foundational principle and spend time in school seeing the magic that's happening because especially during the session, it can feel demoralizing at times. So that was h so good. I felt like I just got so many words. It was worth the worth the price of admission right there. But one of the things that he um he talked about was know as a board member when to provide a compass and when to provide a map. And I was like, what does that even mean? But he was talking about a map. Sometimes we need a map, but it provides a very specific route. Turn left here, turn right there. And um there are times when that is necessary, but I hope it's not our norm. Um instead, a compass. We have a destination that we all need to get to, but there can be many routes that could be taken to get there. And um I'm hoping that that culture of teacher choice and belonging in routines and rituals and pro and in our processes of our board will be top of mind. Um anyway, I was also really interested in the speed networking class where we get to kind of talk with other boards about what they're doing. I have a deep motivation right now to in um increase opportunities for learners in our district. I so I've been asking how are you guys doing high school schedules because I really want to optimize students opportunities to get out into um like college classes if that's a path that speaks to them. Um, and and I'm so grateful for the focus that Miss Goff talked about today with increasing opportunities at the virtual academy for concurrent and um any advanced class AP or concurrent. Uh I love the access that that provides students. But [snorts] um it was so interesting. I just said, "Is everybody here doing block in high school?" And like two people at the table were. There were so many really interesting approaches and it just got me very excited to hear what our um staff will come back with when we hear a report on some innovations for scheduling and really excited for um the possibilities the the doors that can open up for our students. Okay, I'll stop rambling. It was a great weekend and I'll echo what has been said. The best part is the conversations that happen in the hallways and around the lunch table there. It really is um a privilege to get to rub shoulders with the people throughout this state and especially to rub shoulders with the people in this room. Okay, let's move then. >> Does Oh, sorry. >> Oh, so I'm so sorry. Please, you guys dedicated your whole weekend. Superintendent, what would you add? Uh [snorts] you guys covered it very well. It it's a wonderful opportunity to learn from other districts. Um Miss George did a great job putting together the presentation. I stood up and talked a bit, but she framed it all, prepared the presentation, uh met with Scott and Dave several times and a lot of good comments about how helpful that was and a lot of compliments on on that. So, um it was interesting. Each presentation goes a different direction. one they really wanted to talk about portables. Another one was a uh broader conversation that we h uh had with board members from other districts, but uh it really helps you feel a part of a a broader purpose and and um it was it was I always look forward to it. It kind of mark time. you come back from the break and that first week you have that um chance to interact and kind of reset and refocus as the remainder of the [cough] comes. Um it was also interesting to get to talk with board members from the three newly formed school districts and and uh they had good opportunities to kind of be jumped into the group. Um, and I would note that we the the keynote speaker, uh, Kim Lear about generational interaction and characteristics is a speaker that we actually invited to speak with all of our administrators a number of years ago for our administrative leadership conference. And she presented on working with employees and students of various ages and how to understand the perspectives of of different people that you work with. She was it was nice to hear from her again and some updated messages. So, great experience overall. Thanks for making it possible and including us. Um, on my way out of the first session that uh our our district superintendent and and [clears throat] uh President George did, I heard someone out in the hall ask the question of another person exiting. Is this a good session? And the the other person exiting said, "Yes, this is one you need to go to." Um, so it was very good. Uh, Rob's rules of order was very very good and insightful. uh mast's board certification Nikki covered and is or sorry President George covered and is um uh changing a little bit but it will be very good. An excellent class I went to was on FMLA and ADA where the state risk management gave very specific and probably the best uh training I've ever had on this area was uh specific. So it was very good uh and I very much appreciated hearing from the person at the state over those issues. Um let's see another class I went to uh I I loved what one of the speakers said uh they said we need to be curious not critical and it kind of reminded me of something somebody else said about being curious. [laughter] Um and then uh Dr. Robinson also covered class I went on on uh proposed changes to Utah law. Um I went to actually a few classes on um because of some other meetings I had on changes to Utah law. Um, and some of the misconceptions and misinterpretations and things where the word or was interpreted as and but got some people in trouble and but the lawsuit but uh so some things that are going to be changing and uh that will certainly change some of our budgeting processes as those laws are debated and passed. the gloomy ending. So, >> oh sorry, [laughter] >> thanks for your Kathy. >> It was it well it was a very good conference. I did appreciate going. It was uh wonderful to be among so many wonderful people. Uh this group here of course is wonderful, but there's so many great people across the state who give so much of themselves. um for others so that others can benefit and I I appreciate that and and hearing from them. Um we don't have all the answers. We do a great job and I think you're right. We are very much respected across the state. I hear that frequently. Um but it sure is nice to hear from others too and learn from others. I'm impressed by the representation of so many districts and how many have it everyone there. It's almost outgrown it. >> It's true. It got a little snug. >> Little snug [laughter] sometimes, but that's cool. >> And and I'll just add when you're talking about representation this year, there was a real effort made to um invite the members of the state board who supported us so well through that conference. many of them stayed the whole time. Um, and then also just the amount of participation on the legislative side from panel discussions to joining us for a JLC, it was really nice. Okay. And I was teasing Mr. Larson. [laughter] You're never gloomy. So, I didn't mean that sounded negative. Um, one quick quote that I heard from another board member that I thought was pretty profound was, "Trust is lost in buckets but gained in drops." So, food for thought. Okay, let's move on to our board and superintendent reports and comments. I I don't mind going first here. So, for the um Salt Lake [clears throat] County Parks and Recreation um advisory committee, we have a meeting tomorrow. And for Jordan Education Foundation, the donor appreciation lunchon is Thursday from 11:30 to 1 here at the JATC South building. If you haven't um RSVPd and plan to attend, you can probably still do that. And then for the licensed employee advisory committee, um I have such happy news for myself. I am really happy about this. Ne our next meeting will be um Monday, February 9th and from 4 to 5:30 here at JATC South. And the topic of conversation will be behavior. I am very interested in what is working, what um could be looked at. There will be more spe the questions will be more specific on an email sent to LEAK members and if any board members >> run them by the board before you send them out. >> Oh, because this is all of our committee. >> Okay. [laughter] Yes, I I will. Perfect. That'll be great. I'm sure through an email. >> Um, are you comfortable with that board? >> And I don't even mind um sending [clears throat] them as all individual emails so that we Anyway, and >> I think it's probably fine if we need to make a a response. We can maybe do it individually, but um yeah, we won't be making decisions. So, I think an email is fine. Um, and then are may other board members attend? >> Yes. If any if if two other board members would like to attend um and if more than that then we could possibly um notice the meeting and record it. But um historically it's been great to get two other board members. Um, so let me know if you want to attend and can attend. >> That's February 9th. You said >> February 9th, >> 4 until 5 >> 30 4 until 5:30. >> What day of the week? >> Monday. >> I would be available. I'd love to attend. >> Oh, I would love to have you there. >> I'd like to. >> I'd like to come as well. I will be uh a tad late. >> Okay, that sounds great. So, Nikki and Aaron. Perfect. >> I will probably be there and then leave when Aaron shows up. How's that? We'll tag team. >> Okay. What time you want me to show up? >> Just take your time to get there. >> Okay, great. >> That's excellent. >> I'll start the meeting. She'll end the meeting. How's that? >> That is perfect. I linger. What? >> I'll keep my distance and my mouth shut. >> Two things I can't do. [laughter] >> Starts at 5. >> 4 4 to 5:30. >> Great. >> Here at this campus. >> Yes. Um in the that room. >> I know. I am violating GP 103. I What is it? A I don't know the clearance. >> There's no consequences. >> I know. Please do not censure me. Okay. [laughter] [gasps] >> Utilities committee is meeting the 22nd of this month. So not this Thursday but the following. Audit and finance committee will meet soon. We have not scheduled today. >> Uh so I'll I'll touch on the two that I I'm on. The Jordan Education Access Committee with the Language and Cultural Services are hosting their annual what I wish you knew conference. It is January 20th, so just next week. And >> West Jordan. It's at West Jordan Middle. Yep. From 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 pm. The theme this year is our stories matter. And they're going to be highlighting and showcasing leadership from different district departments. Their keynote speaker is Kyle Reyes. He is an author of the book Lenses of Humanity and is a vice president at Utah Valley University. And there are also going to have student and teacher presentations, breakout sessions, and a box lunch. So, if you are available to go, I think it will be a wonderful event. >> Do we need to RSVP? I remember getting it. >> Yes, that would be great if you could RSVP. Would you like me to send you the link? >> I have it in my email. You're just helping me remember the things that I've pushed off. >> Sure. Sure. >> Do you want me to send you the link, Lisa? >> Thank you. >> Would you send it to me as well? I know. I saw it and now I can't find. >> Okay, if you're already sending, throw my name on there, too. >> Keep me from the search. >> And then for the government relations advisory committee, two dates you'll want to make sure you have on your calendar, and they're coming up fast. February 11th is the board member day on the hill. 11:30 to 1:30. um don't need an RSVP, but if you want to reply, we'll make sure we have a lunch for you. Uh any questions about that or any additional details? That's our board. Yes. >> I would just add on that day, um 11:30 to 1:30 is the I mean lunch would begin for legislators to come visit around noon because that's when their their AM session ends. If you were interested in coming up earlier, we could also arrange for you to sit with one of our legislators on the House or Senate floor. Um, just let me know. And I think that's >> is Is this the SBO? >> No, that's February 18th, the second date you'll want on your calendar. So, if you're interested on the 11th or any other date for that matter of of coming up and and uh arranging time to sit on the House floor or the Senate floor, it's really it's a great experience and uh be happy to arrange it on that day. We're doing it on Wednesday. >> Is that early enough? >> Uh 11. Yeah, the their session the floor session would go from 10 to noon. So, depending on how long you you Oops. would want to sit with them. But >> if you want to sit on the floor, do it that day because the 18th SBOS's will >> Yeah. >> What was the first date again? >> February 11th. >> They have chairs there for you. So you have to sit on the floor. [laughter] >> Not literally on the floor. It's just the the house. They do have to go and get the folding chair. And >> so the second day, as I mentioned, is February 18th. So, one week later for the student body officers in our district, uh, it's their day on the hill. So, um, anything you want to add to that, Mike, or any questions on this day? that that's when the the student body officers will come up and arrive around 9:45ish just prior to the morning session beginning. We'll we usually stop at the um we'll take a tour and we'll go to the treasurer's office and and view some of the cool things there and then we'll go up and have the the students uh we'll divvy them out with our legislators and they sit on the house floor until around noon and then we'll go to the capital boardroom and have lunch and legislators will pop in. We changed it to a Wednesday this time because Tuesdays and Thursdays have historically been their caucus lunch meetings and so it was hard for them to go to both and feel like they had to pop back and forth. So we're hoping that with this change to a Wednesday that that's more conducive for them to to visit us. >> And many thanks to Mike for organizing these two events for us and for our students. >> If you want you can ride the bus with the body officers, South Valley School, 9:00 a.m. I rode the bus with them last year. It was great. I [laughter] >> Sorry. Go on. I do want to run something by the board. I'm I'm on the finance committee and I'm on the government relations committee and let me know if this is a discussion for another time. But one of the things that has come up is potentially creating very short educational videos like for our citizens. Here's how property taxes and school districts work. One to two minutes if it can be that brief. But and there and there could be future videos on other related topics. Is there interest in the board from the board in pursuing this kind of endeavor? >> I think that um finance committee should have a Tik Tok account. [laughter] >> I'm just kidding. But I mean, you know, those kind of short form video content. Mhm. >> Um, it it's it's possible that it could be brief enough where >> people's attention spans or something and still give a nugget of information. I like what you're thinking, Suzanne. >> I think it's absolutely critical. There's so many misperceptions and I've lost friendships over this whole thing because people just get so angry over it, but they just don't understand it, you know, and it's so complicated. And I asked that same question because I would love the state to do it. And I asked that question in my session and there wasn't really an appetite. Davis has some stuff on their website so we can maybe screw around and see what other people have. But if the USB is not going to do this or USBA is not going to do this, then I wish our district would lead out and um educate not in a confrontational way but an educational way. They need to understand it. >> Did you know way? Yeah. >> Did you know? >> Did you know? >> Mhm. >> At some level, even understanding completely how it works doesn't help the grandma or the grandpa that can't afford their home. [laughter] I mean at at some level there there is an audience for it but >> but I'm but I'm a grandma grandpa and almost on a fixed income and I do want to know because I studied this as a schoolboard member for the last decade and I still don't think I know everything about this and um this is the way our legislators have selected for us to fund education and so we can say all we want our district has done a phenomenal job in our finances >> and yet we have angry people over this issue. >> Well, I'm okay if people are angry with the facts. >> It's angry with misinformation that I'd like to see if we can't >> remedy. >> Uh so what I need is a little bit of direction on this. I have gotten resources from committee members. I've done some looking online. I've started jotting down some key principles. But I think ultimately the video is not for me personally to make as much as I would like to be the director. >> Yeah. Right. [laughter] Um I'd like to be more skilled at at such a creation, but I'm not. So I imagine this is something we would ask administration to work on. Is that something that we would be ready to do or would there be more specific direction needed? Let's come up with a proposal in finance committee. >> Okay. >> Some very specific videos and then we'll propose we'll come with a proposal that you can make to the board. >> Okay. >> We've kind of refined it. >> Great. But there's it sounds like there is interest then. Great. Thank you. That's it for my committees since we're talking government. Are you thinking of like coming up with a list of topics and then asking communications to produce the videos or did you want to do that in a different way? >> Uh along those lines, what I I think where I'm leaning is let's make a video and maybe with an intention of doing a series if somebody like the USBA doesn't want to pick it up when it's a huge hit. Um, [laughter] but there are there's so much that could be said. I think it could potentially be a series of many videos. And I would like to prioritize here's the order in which I would imagine they would be or we would imagine they would be valuable. >> I think brevity is king here. >> Absolutely. >> Kind of like what we did years ago with the Friday fun fact, you know, but again, targeted finances. I I think laws are great too, but also even the successes that we had that we mentioned in that meeting. So many people don't understand how we are cutting corners and how we didn't have a tax increase from 2009 to was it 22 or whatever. I mean we are tightening that belt and people just don't understand that. So just a variety of ones like that. >> Yes. And I and I think my in kind of my vision for this would be to not only keep it brief but try to keep it as much as possible universal and then additions if we want to make it specific if if AI can be used so they can be updated as maybe laws change without endeavoring all to create a new one every time. Um just some of my thoughts for efficiency and optimizing Thank you. I'm excited about it. >> All right, I can give a little USBA update. Um, of course we all know, mark your calendars, January 20th is the start of the legislative session. We have historically had legislative updates um, in our board meetings. I think that we have enough bills filed that are released that it would probably be appropriate to start that at our next meeting. Everybody interested in us continuing that? Okay, perfect. January 21st, we just are replete with opportunities to be on the hill this year. Um, and speaking of, we are moving JLC meetings to the hill. So heads up on that little change. Um so USBA's celebration of public education is January 21st from 3 to 6 in the rotunda. Um this is more of a demonstration of the great things that are happening in public education. there can sometimes be a strong negative rhetoric and um this is a new approach USBA is trying out this year. So every district will be bringing some sort of poster that kind of um encapsulates the dreams of our students that public ed. Uh so there will be each district especially the districts on the Wasatch front are inviting um students to come and there's not like a big performance platform but like maybe a place to show off that you did we the people or a science fair there all sorts of things. I'm sure that Dr. Godfrey and his team have something delightful up their sleeve to show off. Jordan, do you already have one? Should I? >> Uh, we did have We ran into a bit of a snag, but we can talk about that more. >> Awesome. Okay. Then, um, the January JLC meetings are going to begin January 23rd from 11 until 1:45 and they will take place in the Senate building, room 210. Uh then there's another one January 30th. So at this point we move to weekly meetings on Fridays and um those tend to be a little longer. So okay then USBA day on the hill is January 30th. This is like a longer day. Of course you can come for some or all. It's up to you. But it goes from 9 until 2:00. and part of that is a JLC meeting. So, heads up there. Um, and then just this is kind of fun, but the number of school board school board members who have filed to run for positions in um the state as well as the state board of education. has been fun to see a few of those going um and happening. Uh one of those is >> is one of those sitting at this table. >> Yes. Yes. We're happy sad for Lisa Dean who is running for the House of Representatives. So happy and thrilled for her and so sad that her name is not going to be on the ballot for Jordan Board of Education. Um, [snorts] another person that USBAminded people will want to pay attention to is Julie Jackson, who is our presidentelect at USBA. So, if she is elected, depending on the timing of when she decides to step down from her position in um USBA leadership could potentially create an additional election. So, I just thought I would let you know that that's happening. Um all right. And one of our employees, Nicole McDermott, is on the state school board ballot for um for my area actually. I'm very excited about that. But to see our employees working so hard >> on Granite Board. She's the president of Granite Board. >> Yep. And she's in between terms. So, but I I honestly think she will do an amazing job there and have no doubt that she'll be successful. Okay, that's it from USBA. Any other comments or reports before I don't want to rush. Great. Okay, we have reached the end of our agenda. We do have a few close session items that um we need to discuss this evening. So, I'll take a motion. I move that we go to close session for character and competence of individuals property potential litigation negotiation security or andor security here in the boardroom at JATC South. >> Second. We have a motion from Miss Dean, a second by Mr. Barnett that we go into close session. All Oh, all those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> And any opposed? All right, that vote is unanimous among all seven board members. So, we are now in close session here at JETC South.