Did she say we can start whenever we want? >> Okay. Start on time and not >> You're on time. You're late. >> The time. That one actually looks more closer on time than it has been on time now. [clears throat] >> You're on time. You're late. >> It's used to be 3 minutes. >> I'm all about that. We didn't do that on my farm. Just so you know, [laughter] >> my husband has like why do you lie to yourself? >> It's just you're just lying to yourself. >> Especially when I have to go to our office. >> Sleep the extra 30 minutes. It doesn't end. >> My friend [laughter] they they were on a dairy farms. I'm from >> I know words. >> Do it. >> I'm walking here. >> All right. Welcome everyone. Welcome to the um tonight's study session. Please rise and join us for the pledge of allegiance under a >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Uh there is no open forum speakers signed up for this evening. So we'll go to the next item on the agenda, which is levy details. And I will turn it over to you, Dr. Wagner. >> All right. So for the purposes of the meeting and recording, uh the microphones are up here. And so basically anybody in here could potentially be picked up if you're even if you're whispering or whatever. So just so you know that these four microphones are the ones picking up the sound. And so um for clarity when you speak speak can articulate somewhat loud. So then that way they pick them up and then the sound should be fine for that. But if you're whispering it'll also pick that up and be on there. So okay. So, with that with the levy, um, just want to kind of do a levy basics with everybody people know what's going on as far as what the what it is. So, uh, for simplicity, we've got question one, this is an operation levy. And for review, uh, what do people know about operating levy? What is it for? >> Operate the school. Okay. But be more specific >> anyone. >> It's what we call a learning levy. >> Okay. Could be learning levy. So what does the money for a typically operating levy go for? One key word >> to the student >> staffing. Okay. So this is what the operating levy the primary focus of the operating levy is is to make sure that we can do that uh cutting staff at the level that we've been cutting the last couple years and also make sure that we can maintain and keep programs that we're offering because when you cut programs so pick any program it could be uh >> what' you say >> choir >> it could be choir >> could be football I'll pick football because I'm a football guy >> okay any of these have costs with staffing. And so depending on how much your staffing cost, if the operating levy doesn't pass, we have to look at then where do you make those cuts? Okay? And so the whole purpose and why that levy is so important is it really will dictate where we are today, where we're going to be tomorrow. Okay? Questions on that one. Okay. Operating levy is different than a capital levy. Anybody know what capital is for? >> Capital structure like structures. >> Equipment. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, essentially, um, Dan, you're here. What are you having struggles with with your equipment? >> What do you specifically tell me about? >> Vehicles. >> Vehicles. >> Okay. We have vehicles that have little holes in the floorboards that we need as far as for maintenance of our grounds and all that kind of stuff. That's just one example. It's not just for that. But capital is simply the equipment you use in order to provide for staff and for students. Okay. So that's your capital le. All right. And then the third the third question which is a question that is not coming from us but from the state. Okay. The state has a trust that they are looking at releasing dollars for all school districts across the state of Minnesota. And so if that question passes, all school districts will get a little bump in funding and it doesn't come out of the taxpayer dollars because it's set up with a trust that was set up oh I want to say over 60 70 years ago or something. Okay? And so if people don't uh this is the last question on the ballot. If people do not say yes to this question, if they just ignore it, uh nothing fill in blank is a no. >> Is a no. >> So we telling everybody make sure you fill in yes for that third question. The third question is independent of our school. >> And Dr. Wagner, I've also heard too that it might be on the back of a ballot. >> It's on the back. So, everything is different obviously per precinct, but it's important to >> Yep. >> So, make sure that this gets a yes because it doesn't it's not costing our taxpayers anything on this one here. Okay. Just a little a bump in additional funding. Okay. So, this is kind of levy question 101 as far as what it's for and what it's going towards. Okay. So essentially when you look at where we're at, so there's a lot of discussion and discuss about out there as far as where we are as a district. So um there's that swear word called S OD for districts. Okay, everybody know what that is? Okay, statutory operating debt. That means you're spending more than you're making. Okay. So, we have to make sure we don't go into statutory operating debt. Now, the hard part with funding and trying to do a budget with statutory operating debt and factoring that in 80% of the school districts in Minnesota have declining enrollment. We're one of them. Okay. Our enrollment is what dictates how much revenue we get. So, part of the problem with revenue is that it also looks at we have to make five-year projections and all that kind of stuff. So we look at the birth rate and all those kind of things. The birth rate's going down. So under our current spending, our fund balance looks like this. Okay? And I don't know exactly what what point it becomes below our revenues and expenditures, but this is what it looks like. If the operating levy passes and we can slow down because we also can't figure in open enrollment. Open enrollment is not a guarantee. And I say that because you get one or two bad reputations and a rumor and whatever, all of a sudden parents are pulling their kids, taking them out of the district. So you really can't factor that into your five-year projections. Okay? If the operating levy passes, essentially it does this with our funding. Okay? My responsibility as a superintendent and with the staff is to minimize as much of this going down as we possibly can and make sure we always rightsize ourselves so that way we basically spend only with what we make and we don't get to the point that it looks like this. Okay. So with that that in a in a very nutshell in a very uh simplistic manner is what each of these three questions looks like as far as messaging as a board and information that when we talk so when people ask well what are we going to cut if it doesn't pass well we are a school district our primary focus is academics athletics and arts are just as important to me as anybody because I've been in all of them I know how important they are but when we look at cuts and having to do cuts, we always have to look at what's going to be the least impactful to the classroom because that's our responsibility as a school district. Okay? So, essentially to make it simple, let's say there's a million dollars that has to be cut. What we have to figure out between my staff and then bring recommendations to the board is where do we get that cut the fastest by doing major cuts as far as major programs or do you cut a bunch of little programs? Okay, that's the dilemma. And so essentially, how fast can you make the cuts to get to that point? Do you find three, four, five positions, programs that get us there? Or do you find 10 or 15 that get us there? That's how that works and how it looks as far as doing cuts and trying to figure that stuff out. >> Okay, any questions on that? >> Go ahead. >> I think to what's important in that analogy, which I really like, is, you know, when we're looking at reductions, we have to look potentially, right? If we're looking at potential reductions, we have to look too at what makes sense now and what makes sense 5 10 years from now. So a cut now could be >> brought back in another year or it's just you have to kind of factor in what helps now versus what helps in five years. And sometimes that's not easy to um I don't know what the word I'm looking for. um >> help. >> What's the word? >> Well, it's not easy to rectify. Always >> rectify. Thank you. That's what I was looking for. So, that that's the in between part. That's really That's hard. >> It is. And so, with any cut, so let's say I'm going to cut the football program. Imagine then with people that have students who are involved with the football program, what that looks like for what they want for their kids and then what happens then to our enrollment. Okay? And so, everything is a domino effect. big and or large. >> Okay. And so that's the thing that we have to be very methodical about that. And that's why it's crucial that we get the operating levy to pass as well as the capital levy because I know that if we can get these passed, I can stabilize the budget, work with Miss Ryder on all the things that we're doing and get it to work. I know we can get it to work, but we got to get it to pass. Okay. Other thing. Go ahead. Um, so kind of a technical question and I'm because I think I might have maybe had it wrong before, but I just want to clarify. So statutory operating debt when we talk about that like it's not a subjective assessment like it is a thing that happens when you reach a certain point. >> Basically, it's 2% of being in the hole. >> 2% of being in the hole. >> Okay. And my experience with statutory operating debt was my first soup job up in uh Kimble, Minnesota before I knew anything about statuto operating debt. They were 6 and a half% in debt and then we had to be on a plan to be out of debt or the state would take over the school district and then the state [clears throat] would do whatever they felt to get the district back to where it needed to be. We were fortunate that instead of taking us four years to get out of debt, it took us only two years because of some planning that we did and working [snorts] with the board and getting that done. question. >> I Yeah, I do have a question actually. When because you have experience here that's actually really helpful. So if a district enters SOD, what is the average time it would take to kind of get out of that knowing not all things are created equal obviously and all districts aren't created equal, but >> two years seems really quick. Is that abnormal or >> It was somewhat abnormal because what we did is then we we focused on the open enrollment side of things because we were surrounded by five districts in Kimble and what we were finding that we looked at our data. we had more going out than coming in. And we had to figure out why was that. And so we got we did a survey. We uh did uh got some information as far as why families were taking the students out. And then we did programming and specifically targeted programming to make sure that we had those programs added. So rather than actually making cuts, >> we actually added programs. So then now we became more of a a destination district. And so we had more people coming in. So we went from having we basically at when I left Kimble we had 22% of our student enrollment was open enrollment coming in and we had 12% going out and so by making that change was the influx of dollars. So that's why it went up so fast. Other districts, you know, we were fortunate to have that benefit because we're just south of St. Cloud and St. Cloud was having their own issues as a school district and so we had a lot of people coming in open out of the St. Cloud school district, the Cold Spring School District, and then the uh Addendale Maple Lake District that came and sent their students into Kimble. And so, um the problem you run into is that you have to show progress getting out of it and that's when the state starts losing patience with you and determining then that they need to step in and we were fortunate that we could show the progress and we were making great progress. So, the state never really threatened anything with us um when we were up there. >> But SOD doesn't just happen overnight, right? It's like I mean it's it's not like we're going to open up our books on next month and we're sod, right? I mean it's it's part of a financial management, >> correct? >> Financial management. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Um so Okay. >> And yeah, it doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't get fixed overnight either, >> right? Right. You know, >> resources always will help us to be able to support the programs. >> Absolutely. Because we don't want to be trying to fix it when we're here, right? >> We want to be right here fixing so that way it just kind of flat lines and goes up. Um, I think it's really important to communicate that what people are voting for in the trust portion is not only not going to raise their taxes, but it also given the percentage that will go back into the state fund comes out in the what they can do for the annual increase and right now the state's having a budget crisis so to speak. Um, so the passing of the trust is essential to give us to continue that baseline of revenue we get every bienium year. But it does not keep uh solve any problems with what's on our levy, cap levy or op levy. We still need those. And I think that's a that's going to be a huge communication, >> right? I mean, in essence, [snorts] in my history and looking at how Minnesota funding has worked, this helps at least continue to us to get a little bump in education funding. If I was to have a crystal ball and guess I would say that with this next bianium with the state, there's not going to be any new funding for education and that there's if there's going to be any new funding, it has to come out of this is where it's going to have to come because of the state budget and where they're at. >> Well, [clears throat] and it's ironic because I've read a lot about this trust and we heard about it at the MSBA conference back at I don't know January or something, but it's like the legislature has the ability to put this on the ballot and make this change, but if they have the ability to do this, then why don't they go back and fix the funding formula? million dollar question. >> Fair question, right? Absolutely. One's like if if their desire really is to fix, you know, our funding, they would do it, you know. >> Well, if you look at funding aspect, there's essentially 44 parts to that formula. >> Mhm. >> And it takes literally takes a mathematical genius to keep track of all that and making sure that >> I mean it's like it's like an algebraic problem that stretches out with 44 parts. That's what the formula is. And so trying to keep track of that cuz not every district has the same thing. Kimble was different than Lassour. Lassour is different than Prior Lake. And so Prior Lake gets funding for some things that Lassour didn't. And vice versa. And then trying to keep track of all that is Lisa, how much fun is that? [laughter] >> That's challenging. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> And the formula we're not going to change. It's been around since what, 1973? >> Yeah. Late 70s. Right in there. and um it needs to be wiped and restarted, but the legislature legislature in a bianium and the legislature in general probably can't do it. They're going to need a working committee of experienced subject matter experts like superintendents and finance directors. Um it's like the IRS code. They've added to it over the years, >> but they never subtract from it. >> They never subtract from it and it's highly outdated, but that's not within our control. >> Right. This is >> that is right. Well, and I I think the other piece is is, you know, yes, they could fix the funding formula or but the two it's not an eitheror proposition like they went for the public or the permanent school trust or the permanent school fund because that is an easy thing to do right now. Just break it out of the constitution and say it's statutory now and now we can adjust it and have it run like other endowments. That doesn't let the uh the funding formula off the hook. It still needs to be addressed and it still needs to be something that they work on. But just like the levy and just like the capital levy, like this buys time, right? like this buys time for us to make informed wise decisions instead of like you said like at that point of it saying >> what's the largest cuts that we can do just to get out like >> so essentially I know you guys know this but just to reiterate is that right now we're 43rd out of 44 districts in the state as far as on the with operating levy and 20 okay >> if this passes we'll then jump up to being 29th out of 44 districts in the metro. Okay. So, >> to me, I also want to reate the fact is we're not asking for the most. We're not asking for how expensive and all other districts are getting. We're getting this. If we can get to this point, we'll make it work. We can get this to work. And that's for me one of the most important messages. We're not asking for the the sun, but we're going to do get the best bang for a dollar with this and keep the district in a healthy spot moving forward. >> What is the additional dollar value the trust would give us per year? I think it's like a couple grand at most. >> I can't see the numbers. I can't remember off the top of my head. >> I thought it was like $46 per pupil or something like that. I mean, we get like is it total was and what at 350 we get for it right now or something around there? >> 45. >> I I think the last time I looked at it was $350,000 >> from the last >> It's on the finance documents. >> That is um >> I didn't know. >> I think last I think it was 60,000 per pupil. >> No, no. [laughter] >> Sorry, misspoke. Misspoke. Um $60. $60 per pupil. $60. >> Yeah, it could be. I can and they and honestly MSBA has been working on this for a long time. They've been trying to get this through for a while. This is not new. They've been trying to work with the legislators to and that's why my challenge is is like gosh, if they can get the legislators to do this, why don't they get them to change? >> It would be nice. I I I completely agree with that. My biggest thing is where we're at is I know these are our controllables. >> If we can control this, we can control our destiny essentially. and the 44 parts to the um formula. That's a legislative thing that they're they're just going to have to figure it out, right? >> You know, and that's the part where this part's frustrating. I can't do nothing about it other than I'm frustrated, but I got to focus all of our aspects, our energy right now to this. Um you know, there's a lot of debate out there and I think like for what we talked about the retreat, the key is that people have to understand that as a team, we trust what we're doing. We trust staff. We trust the board that we're going to make this work and it's going to be successful. And that's the number one thing. We want to make sure that with our messaging, we talk about how we promote it and discuss it. We can't be like, well, I'm not I know I know there was a debate about the amount, but I'm telling you right now, the amount that you came up with as a board, we're going to make work. It works. Okay? That's the message and we're going to make that work. Okay? on the trust um back from August 7th AMSD meeting uh it said uh they stated that the estimated dollar amount for Minnesota classrooms will be about $2.3 billion which equates to only $27.19 per pupil. And so educators, we're really stressing um that that we understand that this question on the ballot, while it is important for it to be a vote yes, it does not fix any budget problems, it does not replace any needs for levies that multiple districts across our state are seeking. Um and so um it it was that was a a big stress point at the August 7th >> AMSD meeting. >> Yeah. >> And one thing like when we went to our meeting I thought was so cool is they talked about how every um every public school student in Minnesota is a trust fund maybe. And I'm actually surprised they're not doing more marketing on that because it's kind of a cool concept to think that every child is a a recipient of this trust. I think a lot of people don't even know about it. So it it's kind of cool. >> Yeah. And I and I just don't want this to catch people off guard >> thinking that this is just something that we threw on there and whatever because if it's not, you know, that's that's trying to break through the misinformation that's out there. Break through and get to the facts. These are the facts. We know what this does. We know what this does and we know what this can do. Okay. >> All right. Any other [clears throat] questions on that with the messaging? um you know with the operations in the capital levy uh we are going to be asked uh about specifics. Are we bringing something back that we cut in the last couple years? Are we maintaining what we have now just to again keep us um out of statutory operating debt? Um what you know has there been >> discussions about this with the staff? Okay. Do we have any tangible things that we can >> I have not narrowed down exactly what would be cut in addition if it's passed or not passed? That's where I I bring up the idea that right now everything's on the table. >> Okay? And there's no one particular program that is weighted over the other than I'm looking at what gets us here if we have let's and this is just an arbitrary number. So it's not what we have to cut it. So, I'm looking at if this is the number that we have to cut in addition, what programs in addition do I have to cut can get me to this the fastest with the least amount of paint? And again, it could be big programs, which would be just a few, or it could be many programs, which don't cost as much, but could be many. And trying to weigh that out with working with the admin, looking at what they have in each of their buildings for programming, all that kind of stuff. with the idea we're trying to minimize how much impact this has on the classroom. That's our number one goal and focus. And again, I'm as much of a sports guy as anybody, but we also have to make sure that we've our number one responsibility are the academics, >> right? So just not to push this but if the if the operation and capital levy pass um when will we be given the um tools the language of what won't be cut and what potentially may come back >> once I can get a financial number with what we have. >> Okay, >> then I can put that forward. I I because right now I got two two options. I got if this fails, that fails are three options and then if they both pass. So then if I know what my number is, >> right? >> Then I know exactly then how I have to move forward. >> And what I'm asking early voting starts in September. We do have a lot of snowbirds that leave. They want to vote before they leave. >> You know, do you have a time deadline that you plan on having that together to give to the board? I could have probably something ready by the next se what's the September 14th 14th even whatever that date is. >> It would any Yeah. Anything we could use would be great because like I said early voting is right around the corner. >> Yep. No. >> And I think too to add on to that if I may. If um Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry. It'll come back. >> That's the first sign. >> [laughter] >> It'll come back. >> Oh, it was going to be so eloquent, too. [laughter] >> Oh gosh. I'm sorry. >> I bet it'll come back. >> No. Yes. Okay. [clears throat] Um when we um when we were going through all of these options and everything, um we made it pretty darn clear that there would still be some reductions. So, is there again going off of what director France said, is there something where, and maybe this goes into what you're looking to do, are there any known, because we we we've said from the beginning that there there will be there will still be some reductions. So, do we know what those could potentially be even before? I think I think it says it on the website. I mean, the deductions were due to lower enrollment. We were going to still be normalizing class size and probably reducing staff. >> Yeah, in our classes, we've raised the class sizes, but I know there's a lot contingent on the sale of this property >> um because there's a lot of money tied up into this. I'm also looking at other options um with property as well and just seeing what else we have available that would be feasible to um potentially sell because the one thing we didn't do as a district is that we did close an elementary school but we didn't necessarily reduce the the footprint of the amount of space that that takes >> right >> so if you look at the amount of space this takes selling it this space here does not equate to the amount of space as of Greenwood >> and so to rightsize the district, we literally physically have to have the footprint that also matches that in order to get there. So, that's looking at that and trying to working with the admin to look at what availability we have. We have a we have a couple locations. One is more optimal than the other. One's in Savage, one's in Car Lake. Looking at the buyer, the buyer did submit the cancellation of the per purchase of this, but they're interested in the other two potentials that we're looking at. So just trying to figure out what makes the most sense and what's going to be the most feasible for us as a district. And there's a lot riding on that because if we can get that portion sold along with this, then now actually we'll be getting an additional 1.5 million that we didn't account for within the budget. So yeah, things then things could come back that were potential cuts that I haven't. I I just don't want to essentially I'm not necessarily not trying to commit to it, but I don't want to go off of hypotheticals, you know, and it's important that I have an actual budget that I see where we know exactly what we have so that I know exactly what we have to do. Okay. Any other questions? All right. What's next? on the agenda. >> Next item on the agenda are school board goals. And so, um, I'm looking at what we had for our goals for 2526. Um, I'm thinking back to our um, you know, last year when we had these um, discussions and coming up with we we had three goals that we uh, came up with. Um given all of the transition that the district has been in uh with leadership, I think it this is a good time just to hear from board members and talk about how we're going to um come up with our goals for the 26 27 year. Um so just to dial back, I know I'd sent you an email about this. Are we not doing the MSBA self-evaluation like we've done in the past to kind of kick off this meeting so that we can evaluate where we're at and >> Yeah. Yes, we that I did receive your email. Thank you for that. Um yes, we definitely the uh I have to um connect with MSBA and get that it'll be given to the board like it has in the past. It just hasn't. So, I'm just wondering if that we need to do that that done prior to doing the goals. I mean, I'm just looking back at like what we did last year and >> we have a pretty um you know, if we go all the way back to 2009 with this this self evaluation. >> So, I just didn't want to miss that piece of the puzzle. That's certainly something that we're going to be um doing. I think it's worthy of it before even having this conversation. >> I mean, we could have an initial discussion on it. Well, and and to be fair, the school board goals that wasn't part of it wasn't part of our agenda planning meeting. So, um coming here tonight is >> my bad. [clears throat] [laughter] >> So, um you know, given the email that you sent, I mean, we do need to do that. We do need to do the MSBA thing. Is >> didn't we just do that? the selfie bell. >> Yeah. >> Back when Dan sent it out last year. Same time. >> This is the same time. It just lasted till now. Okay. >> It's an annual. >> I can't believe the end there already. >> Yeah. >> We've had a lot going on. Yeah. >> Right. There's been a lot going on with, you know, with the change. Normally, we do it in the spring. So, we can and then we have the retreat now and then we go do it the next year. But, um, I do have a question. could you um review the default MSBA questions and see if there's anything that needs to be added to that? Um [clears throat] they're quite generic and we always kind of end up in the somewhat of the same areas. It's the same questions. I'm not sure if um [clears throat] there's anything that people would want to have added to that to be a little more specific to us. Maybe one question or something. the MSBA allows that. Um, just a thought. >> Yeah, >> we've been filling out the same one decades now. >> Well, I like consistency to be honest with you. My perspective is if you're consistent. The one thing I really like about their survey is it goes back to kind of like what we saw in our handbook is that it aligns with that we're I'm gonna go back to my notes. Sorry, wrote it down. Um, and focusing on student achievement for all. So just and I remember that from our conversation last year. So much of the questions that were being asked is how are we focusing on um student achievement for all. So I would I would I don't know I mean certainly like I said I like the format because it goes back to what our goal as a board is. I mean or what the objective of the bo the board is from an MSBA standard. >> Yeah. Um, does any other board members have uh any feedback on maybe just dialogue toward the two different >> Yeah, I mean I I think it's hard to come into these open-ended, right? So, I know MSBA we I think we talked about this last year. They don't have great guidance on like, you know, what how to set them or how many to have or you know, things like that. But, um, I I do think starting with the eval and looking last year's goals and saying have we achieved these do we want to carry them forward is a good start but um yeah I think it's hard like we talked about last year like do we want two or five or you know do we do one in each of the priorities like how I think some guidance on just kind of here's where we want to achieve would be helpful to start with so we're not just open-ended um >> do you have a list of the questions with or >> I don't have it. I could have >> Oh, I think Dan might have sent them in an email last year. I was looking this up yesterday. >> Yeah, I I was just going to I was just going to search my email, but I can't search at the same time. >> No, I know. I think they're in there cuz I looked at it yesterday. >> I think that my my multitasking capabil I have singular focus. >> It was exact same time [laughter] frame as last year. as a starting point, talk through the goals from last year and like do we want to continue some of these or are they working, not working? I don't know. >> I think what we did last year was great, but we just got done with a with a retreat where I'll point us back to our handbook, right? And Jim said, right, he pointed out two two numbers on there, right? Trust future focus, right? and student achievement. So, if I had to pick three things that are like plain, simple, and easy, I know that's not everybody's answer, and everybody wants to do the survey, which I'm perfectly fine with doing it, >> sure. >> But hands down, sounds pretty good to me. So, I'm But I'm only one. So, >> no, I would agree with that. Um, and that was going to be what I said, too. I mean, we just spent an hour retreat um hearing about how we as a board are not functioning in a way that allows the district to be successful. So, um I think there is plenty there. I'm all for taking the survey. I think um I think there is absolutely value there, but I think we just had um a detailed enough meeting where I think there is quite a bit there that we can start to look at and start to think about how we want to move forward. >> And the answers are in our handbook. Mhm. >> That we all made. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Anyone else? Director said, >> thoughts, Dad. >> Trust future focused achievements. >> Okay. Right. >> And not necessarily. Right. We could pick an order. One, two. >> So, it would be helpful. I mean, I I have what Jess is looking at right now with the questions and the the results and stuff, but if we could put that together and um I think was it director Zump Bush that did a lot of work last year trying to map also the our our board goals into the strategic plan pillars and the priorities to >> I think that was actually two years ago. >> Um >> and it was busy, you know, >> it was very busy. It was a little overwhelming, but um that combined with what we just came out of the retreat would be things to look at to modify it. >> Well, what I hear um consistently throughout the board, I think we all agree to to do the survey. Uh so we'll get that brought out to board members as soon as possible and we'll go from there. >> Anything else on on board goals that anyone wants to add? Then we will move down to board committees and structure and that is Dr. Wagner. Okay. >> You want to come up here and join me on this one? >> I can. Yeah, if you need. >> Well, just just clarify any questions that might be. >> Sure. So, basically, um, Rob and I have talked extensively about committees, and how you're doing committees is is is not efficient. It just isn't. And when you're trying to get, you know, what anywhere from 10 to 15 different people together at one time, and it's hard enough to get board members in one time as a small group by the subcommittee. I think that the idea that Rob brought up with giving the general public the opportunity to see what uh policies are going to be reviewed, they can give us what we need as far as input on any one of the policies and for then that committee to look at what is the input that they're giving us so we can determine how it's going to look on the policy. As a board, you have to establish trust with the community that you are putting together and putting forth the information that the community expects for policies for their students, for the staff, for yourself, and that kind of thing. Just with what we talked about, you have to establish and re and reestablish that trust that you are you're an elected official and that you're going to provide and do what's in the best interest of our students and the district and the community that we serve. And we have to be efficient. We don't have the time to get stuck in the mud trying to figure all that kind of stuff. And the proposal that Rod put together is very similar to what I've experienced in other districts. And Prior Lake Savage is a special district. I know that. I'm not denying that. But efficiency is efficiency regardless of how you define it. And if we want to be efficient, we have to look at changing that structure coincide with being that way. Okay. It's not that it's been done wrong. I'm not saying that. I would never state that. It's just that we have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of responsibilities that we've been talking about that we got to get done and staff are relying on you as a board to get the job done. You're expecting them to get it done. We also need to get it done as a team. And this team has to function and you have to trust all seven of you have to trust each other that with whatever committee you're on, you're getting it done. you're doing it in what's best interest of our students. So, I don't know if you want to review or not review but just kind of the cliff. >> Yeah. So, basically, yeah, the cliffnotee version would be that the policy committee would move to uh Dr. Wagner, myself, the two board members uh that serve on the policy committee. Um along with then the representations of the district leaders that those policies would fall under as was laid out last week. Um and those people would be invited to then you know participate in offering uh opinions and feedback uh in regards to those policies whether it's principles whether it's administrators um they would be you know uh invited to give that feedback. So um definitely wasn't looked at something as trying to do something in a silo or anything like that. Uh it was just you know looking at something saying you know as as uh Dr. Dr. Wagner said, you know, where uh might we be able to, you know, keep things moving in the right direction? And this was just one area that we thought from a policy standpoint. As as he explained, it's something that he's been used to. It's something I've been used to. Um allowing um the board to still have the final say on those policies. Um and then still bringing in the important stakeholders as well as allows giving the community an opportunity to give input on all of those policies. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. That's what you know moving forward if you know the board would want that direction that's kind of how the new policy committee would look like. Um and um I can't you know necessarily speak to uh business and operations or to the uh LIi group but from at least a policy standpoint that's how I would like to move forward with that. >> And because this is a work session there's no voting tonight. So essentially this is your opportunity then between now and the next board meeting and that will be an action item to move forward on to have discussions with myself and Rob to go over that and to look at what we want to do moving forward. >> I I would like to make a suggestion that we the whole purpose of having the three committees was for public engagement and person with accountability because we always had the ability for people to reply. Uh other than that the policies went to the full board and we had the multiple readings with the full board. So if you want to be efficient why don't we just send the policies directly to the full board as well as to the public simultaneously and then just keep the other two committees that are currently in place of the TNL and the finance and operations. Um because again the creation of the committees were not was not necessarily thinking of efficiency. It was it was for public engagement. Um, and the public engagement piece, what there's no, we're going back to the way it was because we always sent them out and put them online for people to give feedback. We didn't do a form and we got feedback on um it just was from the same people all the time. So, um, by actually having people apply and then rotate a quarter of that committee out, we got people from the community to show up and, um, that was the whole purpose of it, which is why we got rid of the public engagement committee, uh, and other committees too that were the public was and made them actually into those three public committees. So, before that, the policies never we didn't have a policy committee. it went straight to the board uh for the three readings and gave the public notice that these policies are being reviewed and put them online um in the normal way we we do board meetings and study sessions. So if that's the case, we should just send it to the whole uh group because the concept of the all the committees is not that any board members are there in front of anything because everything still should go back to the board. the board members were sitting on the committee as representatives of the board, but they should really keep their mouth shut kind of and listen to the community, right, and hear the feedback from the individuals. Um, that was the purpose of the committee. Um, but if we're not doing that and we want to be more efficient and streamline it, then we just get rid of the the whole public committee because it's not really a committee. Um, and and reassign board members to other things. I mean, there's a lot of things that aren't currently happening that probably should. Uh, as far as individual committees and representation within the school district, you know, we've got Apac, we've got Minaps, we've got a few other things that don't officially do anything. Um, and we could strengthen those. >> I think >> Can I just >> Yeah, go right ahead. Yeah. >> So, thank you for repeating kind of what we heard before. Um, the the concern and I and I've thought about what you said. If we get rid of the policy committee, then that's no longer a board committee and those meetings are no longer open to the public, which is how it was held before. And so, um, it becomes a managerial committee then and then those nobody can come to those meetings because they're not open to the public. So, I'm very opposed to that. Um I think um I think the way that the based on the fact that we're using the MSBA policies um they have a process that they recommend and um you know we reached out to Terry Marorrow and I don't know if you want me to share this Rob but I'm happy to pass this out but basically if everybody wants to take one of these um Terry basically said here please I'll speak to Terry myself. Thanks. Well, that's I mean I'm on the policy committee, Mary. So, it's our job to sort of figure out something that hasn't working. I mean, we're not trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. So, we never had a policy committee [clears throat] before. So, I'm well aware that you did always in the public. >> It was never held in private. >> All the policies went directly to the public and to the public meeting first. >> There was no for the public. >> Just to clarify what we're looking at here, policy committee is not a private meeting. It's a public any Whether it's the finance, TNL, the policies, that's still a public meeting. It's just that, >> you know, to your own rules that you established as a board, you had a lot of people not showing up for the meetings and you had to kick off people off of the the committees because they missed three or more meetings, right? >> That's a rule that you guys came up with and that kind of thing. And so, you have to look at >> with what you established, your subcommittees, even when they meet, are still public meetings. That doesn't change. And people that want to be part of that are more than welcome to be part of that. based on the schedule. If you have a full board meeting, you're then you're talking about having another meeting with everybody to discuss the policies. Responsibility of the school board is making policies and making sure the policies are enforced. That's that's part of your phase training that you all I'm assuming everybody went through your face training >> with MSBA and that kind of stuff. And so the expectation is again establishing efficiencies because you have to trust each other regardless of who is on the committees that you're doing what you need to. And I'm telling you other districts are following that model. Okay? Other districts are doing it and it's working fine. We're great. Wonderful. Whatever you want to use. >> And so we have to be at a spot where we have to be willing to make some change. All those committees are not going to be private. They always they always have to be uh what do you call it? Open open and they have to be posted three days prior to them happening. That doesn't change. It's all the same. And for whatever community members that want to come in person and be part of they still can. We're not stopping that, >> right? >> But the bottom line is we have to get through these policies. And again, we just talked in the retreat about what's holding us back. Okay? We have to move forward whether it's painful or not and it's just part of the process and if it doesn't work then we can change it. Nothing that we're doing is etched in stone that can't be changed if it's not working. >> But doing nothing and doing the same I mean what is it the definition of insanity? Let's keep doing the same thing over and over again expect different results. >> That's what we're doing. >> Okay. And I wouldn't bring something forward to you. Rob wouldn't bring something forward to you if it had doesn't show others data to show that it's working and it's working in other places. I mean, and if Pri Savage is so unique and so special compared to every other district that we see [clears throat] because one of the most common things I find that I've seen across the state of Minnesota, you can look this up, districts that have complex uh setups with their committees are the ones that are struggling >> and we do not want to be that district that is struggling. And so again, why reinvent the wheel? And if I mean, people's schedules are busy. If they can make the meetings and be there, they'll be there. And if they're too busy, they won't. We're not excluding anybody, especially the admin, especially the teachers or board members who the policies impact or who they affect. Nobody is excluded. We have to get done. we have the core people that have to be in there in order for a policy to be brought forward to the full board for approval. I think it's also really important to note that 90% even maybe even higher than that of the policies are so statutoily driven that it's like I said I think I I only lived I only lived on that policy committee for 6 months so I'd have to divert to other board members who lived on there longer but I think from what I saw is I saw a lot of time getting stuck in the weeds on periods and commas and different things that were I don't know it just seemed like like I said I >> well in your current group is playing a lot of catch-up because you have two different transition periods. One is live, >> right? I think Rob's done a great job of keeping everybody organized and it's very transparent because everybody can see the tracker. Um, I personally love the addition of and I don't know if everybody is really clear about understanding the addition of the portal, but basically in our on our policy page, which again I would recommend being its own tab or something rather than under schoolboard, um, there would be like here's where, correct me if I'm wrong, Rob, I think this is what we had chat about, but here are the policies we're reviewing. And then there's always a portal where anybody can email in and say, you know, this is what are my thoughts on this policy. And you know, I know there were some concerns raised about synthesizing the data. And we've had surveys that have had 600 responses. We've had surveys had 6,000 responses. And I think it's with AI now, it's super easy to be able to like recap the responses. So I don't see that as being a challenge or a burden on our administration. I think the burden is the multiple meetings to get to a point where um I don't know I mean we're just not getting the work done to be honest with you from what I saw. So, but you can you can add if you want. >> Yeah, it was I don't remember the policy, but it was one of the ones that we have to review every year. >> 516 discipline 506 >> and we didn't get it done until the end of the school year last year because it was right and then come to find out the things that you know continued to get brought up. It was right great questions to ask. However, again, we're going backwards in things because we lost other people and there weren't things that were tracked. And guess what? Now Rob's having to ask legal this and that and then right all things that we we experienced too and it's you can't change that because it's >> statute. Okay. Thank you. >> You just brought up one of our greatest expenses. It's a >> Yes. >> Mhm. I am tired of watching our bills go off to attorneys >> and I've only been here for seven weeks. So, I can only imagine the frustration that [clears throat] uh Lisa has and Rob has looking at what we pay out. >> Anyone else have anything on the policy committee? If I can add one more and I know it was brought up right on and continues to get brought up on individuals wanting or the community adding their feedback. I don't know Rob's true vision on that. Um but I know just the interactions he and I have had is if you asked for the whole 6,000, right? I think he'd walk in with the whole stack and say, "Here you go." >> Right? I don't think he would even >> right and for me sitting on the committee I would want to see every every little comment before just to make sure like we we are we are doing that yeah I'd love to synthesize data as well but I'm just that kind of person right I want to see everything but I think if you ask for it like that's how he's going to >> I think getting back to superintendent's point is that at the end of the day they're board policies right >> they're your policies >> so that would require direction from you on order on how then we administer that and I'll administer whatever direction you want want to go. I I don't have a problem if it's getting six more new members and that's what you guys want. We'll get the applications rolling. We'll find six more new members and we'll keep doing it. I will say that, you know, just in my one-year experience, out of the eight people we had, it was there was probably two folks on the committee that offered insight on a consistent basis. the other six were kind of giving insight based on maybe when it was applicable to them or to their child. Um, but other than that, it was probably two members that were giving, you know, insight or that when I would send them out prior asking for people to make comments or make suggestions or do you have any thoughts so that way I can maybe get answers prior to the meeting, none of that was happening. So, the only other thing I've asked the superintendent is if we keep with the current format, I would like to rewrite the charter on the policy committee, just simply meaning that I would then start to expect our community members who want to be on our policy committee to have a little bit more um I guess you know uh skin in the game or however you want to say it. I would expect them to probably start doing a little bit more labor and a little bit more lifting on the policy committee. So then that doesn't necessarily just we just don't get to a policy committee meeting at 7 in the morning and for an hour and 45 minutes we're talking about maybe a couple paragraphs within one policy. There would be some expectations laid out if you're coming on this policy committee. Here's what you're going to be expected to do as a community member because we can't keep >> um you know doing this without some some input or some help uh from the people who are going to be on this committee. But at the end of the day they're your policies. they're the board policies and the direction you want to go. Um, you know, that's that's up to you. But we would have to have some sort of representation from the board as far as directing, you know, those policies and and um how they come to the board and which policies are going to be reviewed and all of that and, you know, and so that's what I would be looking for as you know, as as the administrator that's kind of on the policy committee. I would be looking for, you know, that direction. So whatever direction that is, I I'll go with it. But this was just a suggestion to, you know, to see if maybe this was um something possible. >> Anybody else? >> I'd like to just say to just um with this board, I mean, we we have discussed, you know, using MSBA model policies to kind of be um our baseline. um when Director Johnson and I went through 200 kind of kind of essentially what you're looking to um move the policy committee to having a couple board members kind of do some of the um you know initial conversations um with you and the superintendent um to help streamline given the the depth of work that needs needs to take place. And I think um you know, you mentioned like these are board policies. We we do have it that we review all policies on a three-year um cycle. And if our current situation, our current makeup of the policy committee is hindering us to do that work, then I'm I I appreciate, you know, the the bringing forward the, you know, the recommendations um and listening to everyone's input regarding that and then next month we'll take action. Anybody else have anything to say? >> Um, yeah. So, um, I guess the way I look at the three board committees, I look at them equally. Um, and I'll take teaching and learning because I've been on teaching and learning the whole four years that I've been on the board and it's amazing and it it's huge. It's a huge committee. Um, and I c I can't imagine, I guess, thinking of being on it for years. I can't imagine coming to the board and saying, I want our 30 person uh committee to go down to four people, two of which are board members. Um, I I I'm guessing I don't know. I'm guessing the board probably wouldn't like that too much. Well, you can't >> because we're I'm sorry. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. It's legally not required. Yours has to be the makeup of the community. It's driven by statute. So, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I'm just saying that's not even possible. So, >> actually, it is possible. >> It has to be two community and whatever. >> It's in the law. >> But my point is, >> I mean, that's about curriculum for our kiddos and that's about all of these different things. And if I were to whether it's stat statutory driven or not, if I were to come to the board and say I want this to be four people, two of which are board members, I don't know if everybody would like that. So I look at this statuto not take that out of it. I look at this the same way. And so if we're going to possibly change the policy committee to be run very differently, and I understand and respect that other districts do it differently, quite frankly, I don't care because I don't work for those district districts. This is how we do it here. And so and how we've done it for several years. And I also am very open to doing things differently. Again, I trust that policy committee in its current form to do the work that they're supposed to to do. I'm not on that committee. I'm on teaching and learning. But if we open if I'm looking at things equally and if I say, okay, teaching and learning needs to be opened up to our entire committee to provide feedback by a certain date or finance and facilities need to be opened. you know, our agendas, everything gets put online and everybody on the on the community is open to feedback and then we have to read that feed you all of those things, all things equal. I just look at that's not very efficient because we have these committee members for a reason and we go through an application process. We don't just pick them out of thin air. You know, these people apply. They want to be part of these committees and so I want to honor that commitment as well. Um, so that's where I'm struggling with this a little bit. I am not struggling with I want to be more efficient with it because I completely respect that and I understand where that's coming from, especially looking at the copious amounts of policies that need to be reviewed. I completely respect that and understand that. I'm just not so sure about taking the eight people out of that equation. That's where I'm struggling. >> Well, that's the way I can, you know, and you hear bad valid points. There's no issues with what you brought up. Main thing the difference if you're going to separate the differences of your curriculum though you're looking at one two very specific curriculums that are provided by companies all across the country. So there's really not necessarily a parameter that they follow and that they are constantly held to. They know what because each state for the most part will have their baseline of standards of what you have to offer. And so the important thing with the the curriculum committee is that they're looking at how does that co coincide with our standards whereas with the policies policies are you know like like the director at said there's about 90% of them that are pretty similar to MSBA and what the model policy is and so it's a matter of going through and reviewing different between you know three or four different types of curriculum versus looking at a hundred different types of policies and try to figure out what it is you're looking at. And so I mean that's really the main difference. The structure of what you're talking about. Yeah. That I I totally get what you're saying and what that is is in the sense we're trying to be mindful of everybody's time and trying to get that done because if it's spending all that time on the policies I can do that but know that there's only so much time that everybody has that Rob has, I have, Lisa has, and all that kind of stuff. And so that's the problem with I'm also having to meet with the principles. I'm also having to meet with the directors and look at all the other stuff that's going on in the classrooms, in the buildings, and all those kind of things. And like I said in the retreat, I have spent hours in the last four or five days or last week reviewing all the policies that are different here that are not the same as what other districts I've been at. And so that takes a lot of time. And if we're going to continue to go down that route, that's fine. but then know there's other aspects of all of our jobs that then starts to become somewhat neglected because I don't have the time to put to get in there and that's my concern and it's something where again not trying to eliminate or prevent anybody from giving feedback just that we have a lot of tools to help us be efficient on all those groups. I can see why within the with the teaching and learning curriculum aspect of there's a lot of discussions that go on with what's in the curriculum and how that curriculum looks and how instruction that kind of stuff and it's important to have people right there to talk about what does this mean what is this implicating and all those kinds of things >> you know it it's not easy there's no easy answer to any of that and I'm not trying to make fire savage beer Henderson or Kimble or Buffalo Wyoming I'm just trying to get this to be the best it can focus. I do think it's worth mentioning that the curriculum committee was uh very dysfunctional for a couple years um that I don't know >> and and it had a history because of um other things and I was on the policy committee and um we always knew that one [snorts] year reviewing 14 another year 85 should not have happened nor do most of them need to spend more than a minute on at best. Um, but it was very efficiently run in the first couple of years. They got through a lot. We had a lot of good people. We do change out 25% of the people every year. And it wasn't a discussion discussing a paragraph. It was basically a lot of people from the community getting informed and also emphasizing that administration is the one who has to implement those policies. But it was a huge engagement and learning experience. Um, and I I can I can speak for myself. I've heard from people in the past year and what's happened and there is a lot of feedback that doesn't necessarily correspond to the feedback that I'm getting from others. So I I want to I I don't want to um I don't I don't you know we didn't have a policy committee at all before at all. Uh it was made for uh public engagement. Um and it was a trial. It really was. It was how do we do this other a lot of other districts do and plenty of we've got 300 and something districts in the state of Minnesota. you can go anywhere even in the metro and you're going to find people doing something different and like they said it's we have to make it our own. Um but we didn't have the efficiency issues before mostly because again there was a charter people were told to come prepared. Um and you know there there wasn't really feedback on paragraphs and and anything with regards to punctuation. It was more questions about, you know, the district and why this is necessary or why it's not necessary. And some of them were deemed not necessary at all and then brought back recently because they happen to be a template policy. But um it was it was a fairly efficient meeting, but again the purpose was public engagement and the board members that sat in there um did more listening than anything else for a reason. Um before we had the policy committee that was made strictly for true public engagement, the policies are owned by administration. they would make the recommended changes and bring it back in the public to the board as a whole. And then we had the three readings for each one. Some of them were expedited for obvious reasons. Um and um you know there it worked fine because the policies are managed by the whole board. So the now just to keep a committee for the sake of saying it's a committee but not really doing what the committee was supposed to be doing just doesn't seem doesn't seem um right. Okay. Um also um we've had emails coming in saying, "Hey, we were waiting on something. We didn't even know this was going to happen and we do need to get back to people and try to tell try try to tell them why and a lot of them don't that have come up but I'm I'm was hoping that people would feel comfortable enough speaking but um there just doesn't seem a lot of there's not a lot of parallel feedback we're getting from different groups and I'm going to go back with director Olstead and what she said that you know think we're going to make the change. Let's let's get feedback on the change from the people in the committees. Um, also let's understand your workload, Director Ktherm. That's really important. And if the committee isn't it that even if a short stop with that committee is another step in another meeting, just take it to the whole board like we used to do before. We're not set. I I I can speak for myself as an individual. Um, we create the committees, we can uncreate them just as easily. Uh, we just need to know what the purpose of the committee was. And the purpose of the committee was public engagement. If you want to make the charter stronger if you think that'll fix it, that's fine, too. It's just that in the two years that I was on the committee, we didn't have this issue. >> Yeah. And I can't speak to that. I mean, but I can speak to the public engagement piece. And I would say if that was the purpose of the committee in my experience, it's failing miserably. >> Yeah, I did agree >> just simply because of the fact that >> the feedback I've received is that prior to this year where there was open dialogue and open discussion, the policy committee was pretty much a sit and get >> that, you know, the school district brought to the committee. This is what we're doing. These are the changes. Any discussion? Nope. And then moved on. So, I'm I mean, I'm more than willing to turn it back into that to turn it back into just a sit and get, but if the purpose of the committee was public engagement by doing a sit and get, you're not engaging the public. You're just telling them the changes you're making to the policy and asking for any questions on and my experience with that is that people aren't comfortable in a big group like that giving you the feedback on or asking their questions. So, once again, I can't speak to how it was done prior to me. All I can give you is my reference for the one year that I've been on it. And this has nothing to do with my workload. Please don't think that I'm bringing this forward because because I'm like I'm I'm like I'm I'm going to him or I went to Dr. Thomas before him saying this. I'm I'm way overworked. We got to, you know, bag this policy committee. Uh it has nothing to do with that. It's just simply I once again I just don't feel that it's getting us what we need out of it. And so once again to hear you say that the purpose of was public engagement, I'm telling you right now it's not it's not hitting the mark the way that it's currently. >> And I think if that's the case, then I would suggest that we just abolish the committee. If if it's not if it's not satisfying the 14 policies that was done in your first year, it's not doing that for you or people don't feel comfortable speaking up or they're not showing up, then we make it then we abolish the committee and send the policies back to the whole board. So mayor, you do realize that if we abolish the committee and it's not a board committee, then it's not open to the public anymore. It becomes a managerial committee. And then we have to bring our 213 forward. >> Point though, we've I've heard I've heard enough everybody's expressed enough this point >> that I think that you have from now until September 14th to think about what you want to do, how you want to present your your side of it and all that kind of stuff. And we will vote on it at that point >> because right now it's fine. We have differences on it, >> but you you know where Rob stands. You know where I stand and what we're trying to do. And if it means anything, go back to what the focus is of the school board. Read what it says, what your phase training told you what it is. Read that. Look at that. You know, because I'll be straight up with every all of you as a board, what I've learned over my years, and I'm old, is that people only tell me what they want me to know. >> They don't tell me everything of what I need to know. and all of us are on a need to know and there's some things I don't need to know but when we have discussions all that kind of stuff it's important that all information that's pertinent to what we're discussing is right there at everybody's fingertips so that way they can have that discussion I cannot stress enough I don't care what opinions are MSBA makes it crystal clear school boards are responsible for policy >> period okay and so I you got two and a half weeks or two weeks, go back, look at all that information, make sure you you've educated yourself. If you're not sure, I know we got some meetings. I know Danny's been scheduling meetings to have you guys meet with me oneonone, that kind of stuff. We need to look it up, go through it. Let's look at it. Let's see what's on paper and see what it states so that way when we get to the September meeting, you guys are as informed as you possibly be can be to make an educated uh motion and and a decision. >> Okay. Anyone anyone else that didn't get to talk on that? >> Well, that was our last item on our agenda. >> Director Bowling, can I We were going to talk about um uh televising meetings or live streaming meetings. um that that was in the email that that was going to be part of our discussion this evening that there was a decision made to no longer live stream the board's sessions and I think in my in my opinion it's in the handbook which is our board handbook that says >> yeah I can my computer >> can you bring it up yeah it also says on our website that all schoolboard meetings and study sessions are to be livereamed Um, I guess my my un my question is what is the problem that we're trying to solve if we're going to make a change where who made the decision and what is the problem that we're trying to solve? So, uh, for a little bit of additional context, um, talking about going away from live streaming study sessions has been a conversation that's been in the works for over a year since when Chair White was board chair um between >> you and Sherweight >> and Dr. Thomas. >> Okay. Um, since I've been chair, um, being on on MSBA board chats, um, many board chairs recommend have recommended moving away from uh, live stream schoolboard study sessions. just especially in instances where trust is an issue or seems to be an issue amongst boards. Study sessions are the the hope for study sessions is to be able to kind of roll up our sleeves, talk about things and um you know ask questions to the administration. Um and and with Dr. Wagner's uh transition into being our superintendent. He hasn't had um boards live stream meetings. Um back when uh Dr. Thomas was still our superintendent. Um we we had talked about um you know since I was chair uh director Olstead being vice chair we talked about having when we moved from the district service center um into whatever space that we would be moving to that would be a natural um a natural time to change that process. Um and given that we haven't moved um yet for our meetings uh we were we had discuss with um Dr. Wagner and this being uh the first study session under under his leadership um that was something that we were going to try. Um, again, nothing being set in stone, but in having a less formal type of discussion for study sessions, um, board chairs across the state have just said that they've had a lot of success, um, in the less formal, um, uh, kind of atmosphere. So, that is how that all came about. Do you want me to give even further history on that? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Okay. So, um, when we went, we used to always have our study sessions over here. Um, and then only record them. Um, you could listen to them live, but then the recording would be placed up on there with no video, nothing like that. That was also before we had the microphones in here and any way to to um actually show the table, so to speak. Um when um when the pandemic hit and we had to go online, you had to make the meetings public and everyone was online. So they were separate. So they started live streaming both the study sessions as well as the board meetings to make them more public. Then when we had to transition back in and go separate, we had to do it in a way that was um uh palatable to be six feet separation and all that kind of stuff. So we continued the live streaming and did everything at the dis. Um we then transitioned back to the tables over here and just used the microphones there. No video. Um well then we turned the video on, we turned it off, stuff like that. It was also a workload issue and trying to get the video uh compacted and get it up and get it online. Um and uh when I was transitioning from chair to to Dan White as chair, we had the discussion again and it was to make it less formal. We really wanted to have the tables over here instead of having people speaking at a podium for a study session. Um go back to firstname basises instead of director this, doctor this. Um and we were going to do that except for then we got um they had their first um incident management team meeting and um there was a recommendation that we not sit here for safety reasons. So we went back up there um and then we were supposed to go only verbal, no video whatsoever. Um and then we ran into the complication of people wanting to come in remotely um over the video. Um and and we had that complication and the way we were going to solve that is do what our local city councils are doing and that's saying that for study sessions there is no remote in uh you can listen um but you you know if you're not going to be here I think is people say if you're not present can't win if you're not present or something like that was that saying so that was something that was going to be brought up in policy too to rectify that uh or to just to go Google meets really cheaply and then save a ton of money too. So that stuff never really got arranged um for two reasons. One, we put the district service center up for sale. So any changes in configuration kind of stopped and that was when you were coming over to chair because I would I talked with Dan about it. We were trying to move the the furniture over there to be a little bit more personal. And what it turned out is and uh D believe Director Powers is in the back of the room when we talked about moving the furniture and we couldn't because of the because of the cables coming up underneath. Um so we just kind of left it the way it was for the next year and you and whoever succeeds you or if you're not going to be chair next year. if you are than you next year too. Um to uh to continue the discussion, but the goal was always to move it off of video uh saving money, move it to a cheaper platform and make it much more personal. So I like this um um and I'm I'm all in favor of making it as personal and as open as possible, but I do know that um people do like to listen in. So, if we could at least live stream the the voices um then then then that would be great. And for those of you who are new to the board, don't have all that history, remember the policy we talked about when we used to have the uh closed caption TV and it was in one of the first policies we discussed and that used to everything used to be on lo on a local TV channel and um I know there was a lot of discussion at the board about keeping that language in there for the local TV channel uh and letting them take the burden of it, but the problem is we don't have that anymore and we also don't have the the newspaper anymore. more. So, uh, we did end up making the changes to that policy, but this whole discussion of the history of it came up back then almost four years ago with many of the sitting board members. So, it's not new. Um, and we've always kind of there's always been discussions with superintendent, with uh board chairs and co-chairs about trying to get the study sessions far less formal, more open, and u more relaxed. Well, I got to apologize to the board essentially as a farmer something get done and someone says let's try it do it I don't not do something for fear of what you call it backlash whatever if it makes sense right so I mean I have never experienced any work sessions ever 12 years of being a superintendent that were broadcast live ever >> so I I respect that The issue though and I did before you came here I I actually tried to watch some of your meetings and there were no meetings unless Henderson right I think the issue and you we started out a retreat this evening tonight when you talk about trust >> I think we've made big headways with our community on live streaming the meetings um there is no meeting that we don't have that there's not a hundred people viewing a meeting and so we I understand the changes happened during co I went back and got that history so thank you for sharing all that because it's all um exactly what um what my understanding of it is. Well, I I don't mind the informal setting. I think it's fine. I just think that if we're trying to be more transparent in one conversation and now we're going to close the meetings in another session and not live stream them. Like we're completely doing one thing out of one side of our mouth and another thing out of the other side of our mouth. >> So, and we have no newspaper. So, we don't have a newspaper that Thank you, Compass, for being here and reporting. I think you guys do a great job. I read your article every Thursday. Um, but I just think that especially with trying to get a levy passed, people are very alert to what's going on in our district and there's a lot of people that watch our meetings. So, if we went and said, "Oh, there's only four or five people that watch a meeting." Then I would say, "Yeah, maybe you don't need to." But again, what what problem are we trying to solve? >> Is it a staff problem that somebody has to push the button? I remember Dan White talked about that that it was having a staff person sit there for five hours. Well, if we can run our meetings more efficiently and have them be a me an hour or whatever, then again, we just solve the problem that we that we had by So, I'm I'm not supportive of not live streaming them. And if the board goes that direction, then we I absolutely have to have them recorded because you look back in our history of all our meetings, they're all recorded and they're on >> Well, that would be my question, I guess. I mean, if we're recording it and posting it later, what difference would that be versus live streaming? It's just a dis I agree with you and I thought a lot long and hard about that and then I also looked around and our surrounding districts all live stream them. So I did a little search and like Shakabe, Lakeville, Burnsville, they all live stream and record and with technology nowadays and YouTube and what they serve them to. It's super easy to do. So again, I'm trying to understand what problem are we trying to solve and I'm all for transparency and that's where I think transparency builds that trust we need within our community. So the minute we try to that's being appeared as we're breaking that down >> then that hurts our district to be honest with you. >> So >> just a clarifying question. >> So we're talking about just posting the audio recording going forward. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean I think my concern I think it's okay as long as it's posted after whether [snorts] it's video or audio fine. Um I guess my concern would be with the remote attendance. I know several of us travel for business or whatever and I would hate to exclude board members. Um maybe that's like a if someone's remote, we then stream it. I don't know if that's possible, but um I do feel like there is technology for this today. Let's use it. If people need to be remote um and then I guess is the I mean I don't know is there a massive cost or is it just a time? That's what I was wondering too from someone sitting here. I mean the use Google Meets or whatever, right? So, >> yeah, that cost I mean I I haven't tossed that out, but I just thinking back to the conversations even from last year, right? And and um you know, it was discussed here at the table just trying to being able to eliminate a staff member being back there. Um, and then you know >> is there a way to >> there's there was there was you know with everything there's never a perfect scenario and so trying to solve one problem sometimes there's hiccups cuz you know if Liz wasn't here and then and a technological problem ensued then that would be a different hiccup and so um >> we've had that >> we yes we've had that several times and I think um Chair White would agree right there. We had technical >> right and so I think that it's a valid question to say what problem are we trying to solve and I think you know going back to our retreat when I think about the two things that Dr. Wgner talked over and over again trust and respect and like when the board's not operating in its full um capacity that affects kids and that's what we're all here for. And so, um, you know, in my time as chair, which has only been since January, all of my feedback from board chairs across the district is when trust or um, you know, trying to create a healthy collaborative space for the board. Relationships are are are key and all of them. I have never had anyone not suggest moving from the live streaming and just a more intimate study um more I shouldn't say intimate a more relaxed study session atmosphere. Yeah. >> Um and so you know this is something that exceed you know this precedes my um you know as my it precedes me as chair for sure. Um and then uh with uh Dr. Wagner's transition and just him not having experience um in in all of his time as superintendent, it felt like a natural again because you know when Dr. Thomas was here it was like okay the natural progression would be when we move places because we we'll be having a different setup. We probably won't have the fancy das wherever we move to. Um it would be easy to have a more you know table like sit scenario and uh that that move has been delayed but we have a transition space that this is our first study session with um Dr. Wagner and so that's how that all ensued. Yeah, I mean I like the less formal. That's great, but I Yeah, I just for me it was like the remote capability if somebody was not able to attend in person would be the biggest thing. And as long as people can listen to the audio after the fact. >> Well, full disclosure, I got a face for radio. [laughter] >> So, what's the difference though between hitting the live stream button versus just recording it? Because you're saying we're still recording it. It'll be uploaded. This is your This is the recommendation, right? or is this what we're talking about? >> Oh, we're not voting anything tonight, you know. >> Oh, no. But but we are we live streaming this one right now. >> I'd have to ask Liz. I think she's recording. >> Okay. Okay. So, um what's the difference between hitting the button the live stream versus recording it? Is there a difference? >> Well, live stream if you're just doing audio. No. If you're doing video, yes. If you just want to do if you want to do >> so there's a lot of different options we're talking about here then >> yeah this could could be a number if you just want to do audio you just want to do both >> I mean >> I just didn't from my experience with a work session the work session is for the board to work be focused on >> yeah I respect that yeah >> on their on the ideologies of what we're trying to figure out um you know I mean there's a ton of opinions one way or another you know it's just that as a group it's important that as a team focused in on what's going to help this group be the most effective and most efficient at moving forward. And that's, you know, and like I said earlier, not everything's on paper. Nothing's touched in stone. So if it if you try something, you don't like it, then try something else. I mean, that's the whole idea of exploring. That's what we teach our kids to do, you know, and it shouldn't stop because we're adults. Um, if I could add, I think, you know, when there is a change, case in point, when everybody walked in here tonight and was like, what is going on? Um, it's important to remember that people will, to your point, Director Atinson, it's people will make up their own story when the information as to why that change was made, as to where that that that originated. Um, they're going to make up a story and and fill in the blanks themselves as to, well, what are they trying to get away with? What are they trying to hide? What are they trying to do? Um, and it doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to. And we control a lot of that at this table, too. >> Um, if somebody says, "Why aren't they being live streamed anymore?" Because they don't need to be. They don't need to be. And we're not trying to hide anything. And if you want to listen to the recording, you can do that. If you want to attend, you can do that. We're not hiding anything. And I think there's there's there's two pieces to this that I think if we do move forward with this change that we need to really focus on. And that is one making sure that we're clear about why it is we're making this change. And two, just don't feed the bad information. Simple as that. And then people will adapt to that and this won't be a new thing anymore. And then it'll just be the thing. and then people won't question it. So, >> anyone else that hasn't had a chance to talk on it? >> I just have one question. Um, you know, we've changed the configuration multiple times. Um, we go with the facilitator for the meeting and the superintendent and what the administration can and can't do and also the input from our security. Um the the board has never voted on the configuration they wanted or they didn't want. It was all done for uh based upon um you know the the administration and the need. Um, matter of fact, when we moved back and forth, even though people said they wanted a more comfortable area, we did what administration, what director Powers and and security and the superintendent said we were going to do for the meeting. Our job is to have the meeting. Um, and if we want to give feedback into where we want to have the meeting, then I think that feedback should be honored and listened to. it. Um, you know, we're in a situation where we don't, you know, this is expensive technology. Um, we don't run it. Um, I I I'm going to I I trust you and and Dr. Wagner, James, however you want to be called, Jim. um to ask the questions and figure out what's going to work with with Liz and her staff and with everything else. And also remember that the meetings, no matter what, have to be recorded and have to be saved for statute as well as for retention. Um we didn't always live stream it. We would record it. They actually put an iPad in the middle of the table when I first got on the board. press, you know, pressed record and there was no microphones and a lot of times you couldn't hear anybody that well, but they were able to do it legally and put that up when they had a time to. So, there's lots of different configurations here. It's it's again what the goal is and um making sure that we're not breaking any rules or putting ourselves in any danger, which is not our job. It's it's it's Jim's staff's job. I'm good with whatever >> whatever changes we make though it's in the handbook. It says which show me where >> page is >> what >> it's on 20 what is it 26 >> says meetings will be live streamed we'll it'll be recorded in live stream it says it in the handbook for both the study and then it says it on our website page 31 right side under board study sessions it does say >> um >> and [clears throat] then I would just recommend whatever the decision is >> work sessions are recorded and live live streamed >> right but we already addressed right that we can make changes to that as needed. Mhm. >> All right. And just fun insight. I'm sure many of us probably forgot, but on page >> page three. >> Oh, page 33, >> right? Page 33. Addressing others during work sessions, it is appropriate to use first names. There you go. So, >> let's do it. >> Look at that. I know we went all formal. >> Thanks, Charles. >> That's why there's two Jessica. So, >> and yeah, I mean, >> just don't call me bro. If it is [laughter] if it is the handbook, I mean on page six, board members may propose additions, revisions to the handbook by sending an email to the chair and requesting a handbook handbook discussion. So, >> we can update these annually, which it says we will and as frequently as as we want to >> frequently as needed. >> And I would I just say I don't really support the not live streaming. I mean, if we had like five people watching, but we have, you'll go look. Well, not tonight because we can't, but there's like a hundred people that watch. And so, my concern is it's going to hit it's going to hurt that transparency and trust that we've been trying to build over the years and that our community is accommodated or is accustomed to. So, I don't love the idea. I do like the informal setting. I think that's fine. As long as the mics can pick us up, that's fine. Um, I just don't really understand the not live streaming versus um just recording and uploading. >> If I had to add anything to that where I I don't disagree, I would say why not give it a shot. >> Yeah. And I >> and just upload and if we hear anything, right, or if I think we see drop offs, right, then we address that when it comes down to it. I think that would be a um maybe a fair compromise. >> Yeah. And if people care enough, you'll maybe see 100 people at our next study session. You know what I mean? >> So, anyone else? >> What's the next item? >> Ajourn. >> Amen. >> Hey, look at that. >> Look at the time. >> See, sorry. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Charlie's on prior tomorrow. I can go. >> If I had kids, maybe I could bring the grandbaby and then stop. Your ass