okay next on the agenda is a our teaching and learning committee math update director Edwards all right thank you so much and my apologies uh not sure if it's cold or allergies or what it is but I've got my water here um I was uh saving my voice uh in the previous conversation certainly there were a couple of points where I uh might have uh jumped in there um and to that end I just want to uh bring uh mention a couple things related to the previous conversation specifically with regard to redact I had Com or I'm sorry uh the foundation's implementation I had commented and we had said five years I just wanted to clarify that the implementation of that um was a little bit different than the the approach that we have taken to math and I think that's going to be uh relevant to this conversation we have here tonight specifically when we did this and this was before my time in this role this is my former role as principal at the middle school level so I wasn't directly involved in but we did a K1 initial implementation then we followed it into second grade and then we followed it into third grade with the students so it was three years of that before we were actually at full K3 implementation and and we've been in that place for three years now so um and there are gaps obviously um per the react that are being seen across the state of Minnesota um that have called attention to the need for a more comprehensive intensive look at literacy skills and the development of literacy skills in our students and so I just thought uh just for clarification and and to that end I'm going to provide just a little bit as a former social studies teacher often teaching some courses in history I I can't uh help but provide a little historical perspective related to this conversation as well because I think it's important uh as we give this update where we're at in our implementation that we go back in time just a little bit to understand the historical steps that we've taken along the way um when I uh transitioned in my role from uh Middle School principal into a K12 uh director of teaching and learning role uh one of the first conversations I had and actually the July of 2021 I remember it well uh was to sit down with Gwen molden our uh curriculum specialist at that time that was K5 and to have a conversation with her as I was transitioning into a leadership role at a K12 level to help understand uh what where are our gaps or where are things we should be paying attention to and in that first conversation um we talked about or she talked about the U need to pay some attention to our math uh curriculum because again we were at the early stages of implementation with the foundations uh related to our uh literacy and we needed to spend um some time and attention looking at uh our math and uh looking at that across K uh 12 and so we began in that first year 2122 bringing together a committee we looked at a vision statement for Math and you as a board um have seen that uh presented to you in previous uh uh presentations each of the last two uh school years prior to this year uh as we brought forward adoptions both in Elementary uh two years ago and last year in middle school and that was a K12 vision and then we set out for where do we start this work um and so we we ident Iden ified we wanted to start this work at the elementary level um because that was uh foundational uh and we wanted we knew that we had uh great inconsistencies with regard to how we were approaching math instruction and again we are coming somewhat uh fairly fresh out of uh our Co experience and so again this was 2122 school year we identified that we wanted to Pilot some curriculum resources uh at the uh Elementary level in the 2223 school year and uh after doing so uh we made a decision in that spring of 23 to uh make a adoption of the bridges curriculum we implemented that began that implementation last year simultaneously at that time in the spring of 23 we were looking at resources at the secondary level and at that time we decided we wanted to look at uh some uh secondary re resources particularly at the middle school level and we identified a resource uh to uh pilot in the same year that we were implementing our K5 curriculum for the first year and fast forward to this year 2425 we are in year two of our implementation of our bridges curriculum K5 and year one of our CPM uh curriculum at the middle school level and we are we and throughout that time uh so as not to forget our our 912 teachers have been engaged in this work and we are continuing to engage with them to identify what are those resources that uh we see needing to help us raise uh the rigor and uh experience for our students in in mathematics across our system K12 so I just wanted to give that brief uh take us back in time if you will uh walk through that and uh prepare for uh what we want to share with you tonight which is an update of uh various phases of that implementation uh and we last week uh had a teaching and learning committee meeting of which uh director olad and director France were participants in as the board representatives to this and uh a very uh different experience that we took uh our committee through um that was an hour and a half uh we don't intend to bring uh the board through the full experience but tonight's presentation is intended to um bring a presentation uh experience to you and with that that we're going to advance uh uh our agenda is to talk a little bit about our rigor and our MCA achievement levels which and the descriptors associated with that uh once again we we spent a significant amount of time with our teaching and learning committee last week uh we're going to give you an opportunity to be mathematicians uh tonight and then we'll talk a little bit about some additional implementation updates so um we all find uh We've we've talked about it multiple occasions here uh that we are drawn and this came up in the previous presentation around our data that uh what we our work here is around our academic excellence and our commitment to that in our strategic plan and specifically again this conversation is related to math um but there are many components to this and uh I have uh here tonight as our guest presenter Jen Maloney who is our uh loan differentiation specialist uh here in the school district in Prior Lake Savage year schools and is uh supporting uh much of the math implementation as our Min staff uh uh within our teaching and learning Department our peer coaches have played a vital role in supporting our work to date uh some of the conversations you as a board were having on the last uh presentation around what type of supports do we are we putting in place um are do we have the right supports do we have enough supports I think the answer is we have some of the right supports we could use more supports but I know we have limitations around that um and so without further Ado I'll turn it over to Jen thanks and I'm going to use a mic because I'm not really a Podium kind of gal so thank you for having me um I want to go back a slide nothing gets me more excited than thinking about academic excellence and also assessment so like this is the perfect meeting for me to join so I appreciate you having me um I really do appreciate the sentence though and thinking about like honing in on the word rigor right but before we begin I want to think about like our own lived math experiences as students and for those of you that were here the other last last week with us we all went around the room and talked about like what do you think think back to your own math experience maybe just a couple years ago I'm sure for most of us right like what was that like for you how would you be able to describe that in one word those of you in the audience too you can think about this turn and talk to your neighbor logical oh sorry oh go ahead go ahead logical very logical thank you anyone else popcorn teacher Leed thank you fun I love math great not fun I didn't oh that's fair too thank you thank you for being real memorization thank you everybody gets to remember Sor uh I'll show what I uh frustrated I felt disconnected thank you I'd say very structured and I don't I can't like put this in a one word but um for me personally there's definitely always like one way of doing things which is like math but you know one way of learning um frustrated in middle and high school and loved it in college I loved it also I I like the problem solving yeah yeah I think just like the other day though there was a wide gamut right and and I think that does play into like our own experience now whether we're leading the school board or whether we're parents or you know whether we're teachers and helping teachers so thank you for going through the exercise with me I'll Circle back to that but I want to go back to this definition I I absolutely love and I feel like we could spend like an entire year just thinking about this definition of academic Excellence so I appreciate everyone that put forth and and brought this together specifically tonight that we going to tone in on rigor so I'm curious you know we went through this exercise too the other night thinking about like what does rigor mean to us and I think that was important to like land on something together um as I reflected on like how does that portray how I support teachers how does that enter the space as we think about what teachers believe and how does that look for students too right because what might be rigorous to me might look different than maybe some of our peers so what does that really mean to us here was the list of um how the groups so we had several different groups and they talked through their thinking on this but what is CH there was challenging but not impossible how many different Pathways do we have that deep thinking and then we talked through like what does that look like when kids are entering that space maybe for the first time think about that first time when you thought oh wow this is really hard right and I need to persevere through this so what does that feel like kind of in your stomach you know thinking about how you're how you're entering that zone they talked a lot about like how does that feel how do you support kids through that like it's okay to be wrong to make mistakes to learn and grow from that that's something I think that I'm working through with my own kids at home right like we know as a journey as a parent that's tricky that's tricky not to like you want to support but you cannot just go in and fix it for them so we talked a lot through that we talked about how to get in that zone where it's like you're in the right zone for being challenged but you're not so overwhelmed that you just want to tap out right so how do you keep kids in that zone together um and then like the more that you do sort of like anything the more you get better at something the better off it you are right and it's easier it gets so talking through that and thinking about as we continue to challenge our students and put them in situations where rigor is really increasing how do we help support them in that Journey how do we help parents support their own students and their own children at home through that Journey um this comes into play when we think about the standards so here is one of oh how many did Ellen tell me there was 27 or 29 27 or 29 standards for fifth grade the fifth grade teacher was with us that evening and thinking about like this is one of 27 standards when we think about this from like what would riger look like in this context so here is the standard read write represent and compare fractions and decimals right you need to be able to recognize equivalent fractions you need to be able to convert them back and forth what do we think that rigor would look like in this context keep in mind when we talk about an MCA and this is one tool right to measure how we're doing and and I love the fact that we were talking about different types of Assessments tonight that's sort of my jam but there's different categories so when you get the scores as a parent you'll see like my child is in the does not meet partially meets meets or exceeds and we get the aggregate then to say how are our students and prior like Sager schools doing in the various contexts right because we can break it down to how are they doing in Geometry how they doing in algebraic reasoning but we have these categories too to Define what does riger look like okay so just play on with me here what would you think rigor a rigorous opportunity would be for students to engage with this standard what do you think that might look like sorry I'm putting you on the spot say the question again what's that let's say the question again what do you think like a rigorous problem would be related to fractions and decimals for fifth grade one of the words that came to mind the other night was it would be like a word problem right it would be a real life context okay the anything else the thought that came to my head was like something that engaged I know that's not probably the answer that you're looking for but the rigor it was something that I notice like when you're defining it in the side above it's like engaging a student to keep them wanting to know more that you know for everyone it's a little bit different and so engaging is what comes to mind when you ask what does the problem look like yeah and engaging I mean for someone who hates math to oh this is fun or I like to problem solve like how do you how do you have something that meets all of that right right right right so when I'm thinking more specifically like in terms of an MCA because that would be tricky right like we want engagement in our classrooms all the time in this assessment though what would it look like so here I'll show you an example and see let's just play this game of like where might this fall so keep in mind our different categories of the does not meet partially meets meets and exceeds levels right that we get the reports on so here's the first problem it's this is a this is an MCA released example from fifth grade related to that standard we were looking at Abby catches 610 of the balls thrown to her during a softball game which fraction is equivalent to 610 what do you notice about this problem it's relatable it's relatable yeah like for a fifth grader it's about softball all right cool cool cool cool it's about fractions it's about equivalency right what are my options for answering this one yeah multiple choice multiple choice got a little m I choice is there probably one right answer probably right logically it would be what level of proficiency going back to this last slide do we think that this would fall in for an MCA related to The Standard that I have shown up here 5.2 point or 5.1. 2.4 like converting your fractions yeah you're converting your fractions uhhuh it's real world right it's a math situation you can't comp fractions compare compare fractions I mean yeah so do you think it Fallen that does not meet partially meets meets or exceeds for fifth graders I say partially yeah why I just have a fifth grader so right great answer great answer yeah this one actually falls in the does not meet category because it's only about recognizing those equivalent simple fractions so even though that's weird to me right like it's a word problem right it's like that real life context it's still only Falls and that does not meet the other thing didn't know about MCAS and maybe this is common knowledge to you it was new learning for me though was like the kids it it's adaptable so kids enter the space of taking the MCA and they get like a generally meets type questions first and depending on how they answer it goes up or down so there's actually questions in the does not meet C category that if they get this correct but nothing above this that's how they kind of earn or get the score of that does not me level okay good job really close really close Okay Okay so let's do another one you can't cheat now cuz you also you might know this one okay so there are 100 people at the beach of the people at the beach 80 did not go into the water what fraction of the people did not go into the water enter your answer in the Box what do you notice about this one not multiple choice it's not multiple choice you literally have to text something that yep type something in m and it's a word problem so if you don't like to read then right another word problem I'm not going for that equivalency this time right there's a little bit more thinking involved so what Lev go back to our little list here what level of proficiency do you think or what level of rigor do you think is in this question I would say meat and maybe even possibly I'm I'm curious I'm curious if someone um gave 80 out of 20 or if somebody said forth right like yeah it's on the on the testing website where I get these from it tells you all the acceptable answers and any of those equivalents would work uhhuh yeah so I'm C I'm curious I can't wait to know if it meets or exceeds or partially what is it yeah it's only partially it is so if you look at this list here and I'll get you guys I didn't want to give away all the answerers so I'll get you guys the PDF of this but like if you look at this list now so all of these skills fall into the partially meets category and so it's like the does not meet and partially meets fits into that partially meets if that makes sense so again if a student just gets this one correct regardless of the type of answer they give as long as it's like an acceptable answer and they don't get anything higher than this that only lands Us in the partially meets category okay so you might be on my pattern now so which numbers are equal to two and 3 fifths select the numbers you want to choose what do you notice about this type of question multiple answers how do you know it's multiple answers like the numbers you got to be queued into that good C does it tell you how many so not realistically right I mean you almost have to check out every single one kind of just to verify how many do we I mean I could put we actually had to do these together the other night but because I don't have the 90 minutes you kind of left out we also had seventh grade ones so I think there was some like sweating in the room but that's okay we helped each other we had team teams of tables um there's actually three answers on this one and this one is only at the meets and you have to get all three interestingly as well of the students now keep in mind not every student got this question on an MCA but of the students that received this one across the state only 22% of them got this one correct I took out the exceeds for like the sake of tonight but there's also an exceeds for each one of these and so when you think about like here is the one standard so this is just like the snip shots that I took from the last one but this is the one standard and here's the different categories of the does not meet partially meets meets and exceeds and again these are the skills that kind of build so like these ones fit into here and these two fit into there if that makes sense um and then these are the release samples that mde puts out so that that's where I got those samples um and they have these for other other subject areas too as well we were just taking a look um and the whole point of that exercise was really to think about then how does that compare to what we have in our classrooms right now because again when we think about that academic excellence and we think about rigor and we think about increasing those proficiencies in our students they can't experience right this level of rigor for the first time when they get to an MCA like we want to ensure that they're seeing that and if any of you have you know those fifth graders at home or especially that seventh grade example too that that we showed the other day it really is like they have to be able to see that there's more than one right answer right and for some of us who say math is just one right answer that's a little unsettling you know what I mean like wait wait I kind of was used to like and I liked like the it is just one right answer and there's multi M ways to get to that approach um the other thing that I think is worth noting is that as the um MCA fors and I think you guys talked about this earlier as MCA 4S are rolling out so science is the first year for that this year so they're all switching from MCA 3 to mca4 the proficiency levels are going to be changing not like all over it's just the titles of them so they're going to be changing from that does not meet oops sorry from that does not meet to a beginning that partially meets to an intermediate and meet meets in advance really the logic behind that from what I'm understanding is that certainly the does not meet doesn't say that you don't know anything about fractions but in this journey of thinking about how kids are understanding it and to what depth they're understanding it we need them to get to hear and he there's some beginning level understanding sure they can find those equivalent fractions are they able to apply that in really complex ways not quite yet if that makes sense so when we get those as parents for a fifth grade MCA this year these are the different categories um that they'll be listed questions about that keep in mind this was like an hour and a half presentation the other night so I'm really racing through it I apologize thank you and so really when you think about like certainly when you think about mathematical rigor right and we and we have it called out in in our um strategic plan of course that procedural fluency is still important right but you cannot just like that three-legged stel will not stand up you cannot have that procedural fluency without really understanding deeply how that's happening and then being able to apply that in deep ways if we want better results on those MCAS right so it kind of like needs all three components equally weighted questions about that any questions about the proficiency levels I'm so glad that the titles are changed changing yeah yeah I do really appreciate that even that even that seemingly small update as a parent I look at that and go you know because it's it's kind of hard to get something where you say your kid doesn't meet something or only partially meet something and to your point you know that's not what that means I mean really that's not what that means yeah um and I I appreciate the the journey that they acknowledge that kids take um whether you're at the beginning level or at an advanced level um and everywhere in between I can appreciate that change I mean I MCAS need to be changed in a lot of different ways um in my opinion and need to be updated but so I'm glad to see I'm glad to see that change even a seemingly smaller one yeah and I really appreciate to the progression the way that this lays out so when you're thinking about instruction right we're thinking about okay there's a starting point right kids are in a but it doesn't also mean that I have to like check out this list first then check out this list right we can sometimes go and you'll know that if you you have those resources at home that your kid is bringing home not every single question that they're experiencing throughout the day is at that exceeds level certainly but do they have opportunities to be there I would hope so right that's why we get a resource that is rigorous enough where I don't have to think about okay now what else do I need just to get to the meets level and I I also think it's interesting that you brought up that I didn't know until last week that the test is different for every child or every student and so what I find interesting is it's you know we just got a report on fastbridge right completely different test but it's so interesting to like what would those report you know when we knowing that which I didn't realize that before so apologies if that was communicated before and I didn't hear that um but I didn't realize that so when you're reading a report on on results and things like that not every kid is seeing the same test which I find fascinating and like to a lot degree that it's customizable depending on how they answer things but there's so much perhaps room for error room for room for a lot of things in that so I found that really interesting that was one of the biggest things I learned last week that that was happening it it's so interesting yeah yep and I think that that is new learning for whatever reason for a lot of folks right and that's okay um these tools I'm just trying to help share with teachers right to think about like how do you lean in to the rigor right and how do we Define that when it when you when you want to layer that with your standards right because we're all teaching the standard we need to make sure that the resources aren't stuck in these two left columns right like I don't think we can achieve the gains we want to see on an MCA if kids don't get to experience those other types of questions on on The Daily let's be honest Mrs Fon I have a question if they're changing the categories are they also updating changing revising the cut scores um they're not like so I apologize they're changing the category titles they're not like changing the N like the scale changes so if you ever see a scaled score those don't really mean very much because those can vary as far as like what these mean so um when you think about like growth you'd never want to go like scaled score to scaled score that doesn't really like work from year to year yeah I'm more referring to like and I know it changes from grade to grade but like meets is only and I'm this is just an example but when you read a seventh grade score and it's a 750 and it says meets that only means that the student has answered 50% of the the questions correctly approximately that's what a cut score is and if you go on to MD website and you go under MCAS it explains how the cut scores are how you read the score and what the cut scores are so I'm trying to understand if the categories are changing are they going to be changing the number that goes with the cut score yeah I'm not sure about that because this is new to Sciences this year um we're actually going to be legged in getting the results because what they did is they built out I don't have the science ones loaded here but like basically they have these same types of things for the science and then they're going to go back in and assign the questions to the different categories okay thank you questions or comments um I personally really really like um the word problems uh cuz in real life they don't say self for X they give you a problem and and tell you know and have you use the the the accumulation of math skills that you have in order to apply to that so um I know it's you know from you know so many decades ago uh when we used to sit in a classroom and do one unit and memorize it and do one pro you know one problem one after the other and that may have happened when you were there Bas don't one your answer um um now they're actually uh uh almost like doing experiential learning uh which is critical and um I think a lot of kids get lost in the constant repetition but also doing it one unit at a time so by the time you get to a summative test like the mca's they may be getting an A in their class but they don't remember what they did in October November in that unit and now we're building it all together like they do in the Collegiate Experience of the spiraling approach which is really really critical yeah the other thing that I noticed too with this kind of piggybacking on your word um problems also the advance includes making models and I think that's something different for a lot of our kids like wait a minute drawing a picture is rigorous or drawing a picture is needed I just know the answer uh if you can't draw the picture though and make the model I should have left the advance the um exceeds example in here the exceeds example was to draw that picture like you don't get exceeds if you can't do that for this you know for this release sample it proves that you understand it not just that you got lucky and guessed or you memorized an answer and I get it I I have a kid at home who pushes back on that daily I feel the pain I just have a question yeah so like we talk about meeting this level rigor that you think would help with like standardized tests and stuff what can teachers do like in the classroom daily to make sure that kids are like getting those skills and practicing that so then they get there yeah and my desire is that as we are getting newer resources that that's already part of what is the experience for kids so teachers don't have to think about finding additional outside resources on top of that right so like my desire is that we would have that built into whether it's reading whether it's science right those types of experiences I mean again I Know It's Tricky for kids to think about like why do I have to draw the picture if I know how to do the algorithm but again if you're not going to try that and show andove your understanding that way you're not going to do well on this type of thing and so helping teachers or having the resources right in their hands all the time that well again I'm not saying that every single problem they're going to experience is always and that exceeds that's certainly not going to be the case like there's room in the resource to go throughout the Continuum I believe but that's my hope is that we'd have that already in their hands and that student experiences daily for them because again you can't just prep for this like two weeks before the test and expect to do really well yeah anything else before I pass it back to D thank you thank you you suppose you don't want the mic that's fine you got it yep so um I just wanted to go back to this particular stool um because this was one of the uh core things that we had conversation about when I was referencing earlier the math Vision that we made uh at a K12 level and that uh those initial Sation that we had in the 2122 school year about what do we need to do um so that we can prepare our students for those different experiences and realtime experiences in the classroom to the question that you just posed um that is exactly the conversation that our uh teachers were engaged in in uh assessing uh what resources we're going to help to do that uh resources that we're going to include that information so that we were not having to individually because that was really what specifically we the initial conversation we had at the Elementry level is that that's what we were finding our our resource was so outdated that uh there was a lot of supplementing going on and that supplementing wasn't consistent across our system so uh this this stool and and you might recall um for those of you that were on the board and those of you that might have been watching our earlier presentations uh one of our colleagues from uh the teaching and learning Department Gwen molden when we adopted the um Elementary uh curriculum I recall her um talking about uh those components of uh the bridges curriculum and what it provided for us and likewise uh as we went into the CPM adoption that was the uh consensus from our teachers as well um so uh again coming back to um our implementation process and we are in year two uh of our Elementary implementation and in year uh one of our Middle School implementation and as such we have been engaged in uh evaluating how that is going and one of the things that we did we and again we talked earlier uh director zush talked about uh implementation science it was a part of uh her slide and about the three-year implementation science and we talked about um and we have in the past talked about uh making sure that at different checkpoints along Ong the way of that implementation we're Gathering different data around our implementation to see its Effectiveness and so specifically at the K5 level this past uh we started it right before winter break and then into early in mid January uh did some K5 math uh visits and just to see how our implementation was going how uh what were the challenges that our teachers were facing and we did this across our system across grade levels and gathered that data and and the purpose of that was to truly help inform our future uh professional development activities our future staff meetings for example uh uh we brought that data and shared that at each individual building level uh with the ad with the administrative team there to help them inform their built conversations for the rest of this year and moving into they're building instructional leadership team conversations and so that's where we focused our implementation check uh at the elementary level in addition to that at the middle school level we also had those conversations with our staff uh multiple times we have been um throughout this year and year one of implementation but at the uh right at the midpoint of this year uh we did a math survey out to our students and our parents uh of students uh that were engaged in our courses that we're using CPM as the instructional resource uh as the curricular resource and we also uh sent the parent uh Guardian survey out and you can see there um what what we received in that uh bit of feedback um and we wanted to highlight here just some of the uh initial uh feedback we're continuing to evaluate this data set and we will continue to evaluate this data set with our staff uh to continue to program forward and to make decisions about uh what adjustments we need to make in our implementation where we need to provide um a deeper experience for our staff and ultimately for our students in utilizing the new resources again getting back to that alignment of having those daily experiences with content that is rigorous aligned to the standards that students have that experience so they don't get to the test and say I've never seen something as complicated as this um and and that is really the work that we're engaged in you can see um the the strength of our teaching staff was noted um time and time again in our uh responses both from our students and our parents our teachers have done a phenomenal job I think both in the case of our bridges uh curriculum as well as our use of the resource of CPM at the middle school level we've had very strong um professional development experience for all of our staff uh in both cases starting the summer before implementation and ongoing throughout the school year and uh actually we're coming up on uh visits at the middle school level with the uh person who works with our teachers and giving feedback on uh their instructional practices and answering questions for them about as they are becoming uh more familiar with the resource they're you know as you do it the first year you're learning as you go and uh giving them an opportunity to engage with the representative to help them uh better access the resources has been key you also see uh that the challenges um uh we were encouraged in the student results to see group work and collaboration be uh something that students found value in I think the teaching and learning committee found value last week when we presented some seventh grade uh problems and and uh the the difficulty and complexity um but we also are seeing the challenges of some uh stress I think we talked about a healthy uh there was a lot of conversation if you go back into our presentation at the teaching and learning committee about what is that healthy uh dissonance that students need to uh wrestle with as they are uh attacking new content and material so those are challenges that we need to continue to work uh to meet the needs of our students and then you can see uh also uh parents reporting improve math confidence I think uh if we take you back to our uh vision statement which in hindsight probably should have included in this uh presentation but math identity and students seeing themselves as mathematicians was one of the key focuses that our staff engaged in as we looked at new resources we wanted our students to all students to see themselves as mathematicians that can do complex problems and have the confidence to do so so um we definitely appreciate that uh that's been reported as uh something that's parents those that uh some of the parents that uh completed our uh feedback said they're seeing that from their son or daughter at home and then um again we see the commonality of the math anxiety and students having uh the difficulty and the challenges with the new uh resource that we're utilizing uh we're not fully surprised uh that there are those challenges and we need to identify strategies to work through um the difference in approach uh in terms of homework uh and problems uh definitely homework uh and work completion is a common uh challenge for middle school students I will say um not new to this implementation um and so not fully surprised uh by that but definitely continuing to work through that with our students um we were going to have this uh opportunity to uh engage you in reflective uh thinking uh just curious if you take a moment uh to reflect about through this experience that you've had I'll be it brief not as long as the 90-minute experience we took our teaching and learning committee uh through last week but I'd like to give you a chance to just pause for a moment and what did you used to think about math and the new standards and the new approaches uh as compared to what you think today for now um I can so um first of all I love the new way of teaching and learning um um I'm do other things outside of being a school board member obviously and one of them is involved in the National stem and one of the struggles that we've had is a 70% dropout rate uh of kids taking hard sciences and math as they go into postsecondary Ed uh simply because they hit that wall that's what we used to call it you know without the constant learning about how to apply it and the experiential learning they were memorizing and they realized they didn't really understand the concepts they would jump over to the next highest level skill that depended on them having an in-depth knowledge of those Concepts and then they would all of a sudden think they were not good at math they weren't good at science they weren't good at that and um I'm hoping that this new method of training and what I've seen in the classrooms is going to help with that quite a bit um because I used to think that you know the the Rope memorization and the repetition and stuff like that um you know was the only real way to teach it in uh middle school and Elementary and clearly um we have made massive improvements on that and also enhanced you know you know so many decades ago being in algebra in high school used to be the Pinnacle and you would only take calculus and college and now it's algebra by 8th grade we're asking them to learn that much faster but we haven't really changed our tools or methodologies of how to learn and uh just doing the same thing faster uh obviously wasn't working so um um as far as the MCAS goes and how they're actually testing in the last year or so um including this year and the new way um I'm hoping that we can actually change that trajectory anyone I have so many thoughts I'm going to share a couple so it's not really like now I think I used to think um what keeps swirling around my head is as as everything that has been presented I think it's really uh we have to be very careful about making assumptions um we we have to be very careful I I wrote like making broad statements um from something that maybe you don't truly understand it it is it's not serving it's not wise I guess um and so I just think of you know when the bridge the bridges curriculum for the elementary school was being um piloted I went or maybe it was the first year of implementation and I went to a couple of the math nights and I thought oh my gosh at you know it was like a 3-hour night and I thought in the beginning I was like oh my gosh I don't get any of this because it was so different from any way that I ever learned and then I I'm a note taker so I took like five pages of notes and by the end I had to had to connect with um I think it was Jennifer Moler that evening and principal Molitor and I was like is my like I feel like this is allowing for such a deeper understanding for a broad level and she said that is exactly what we're trying to do and so while um I am very far I've never been an educator I never probably will be an educator other than being a parent so I guess I'm a little bit of an educator um I just really appreciate being taken through this um I think there's been a lot of concern and I think that we have to we have to allow for this Ro we have we have to allow for it the so I don't know I I think that again I have so many thoughts but the biggest thing is is like it's just we have to be very careful about making assumptions or broad statements um because they just lead to fear and and um yeah that's my do you have something you want to say oh yeah I just wanted to say that I love how you're putting so much emphasis on the like confidence and like the stress levels cuz I've seen so many of my peers in myself struggle um with like just like knowing that oh we're not a math person we haven't done well in math so we're just we can't do math but now maybe I can do math and I love the way you presented it I felt like I was in a classroom that was fun well uh Mrs baloney has to take credit for that thank you um I would just I have a question can you go back to the slide with a stool on it please so my question slash concern is the word Concepts is mentioned multiple times on this slide students identify the appropriate Concepts um and then we go down and conceptual understanding um my question SL concern is that if this math Vision was built in 212 2 previous to the Strategic plan being finalized in um July of last year where we really did hear a very light loud loud cry from our community that our students they want to see them um receive you know curriculum that's rigorous and challenging and relevant and I think they want to learn a little content where um this slide really talks about Concepts and I know that this curriculum also talks about Concepts so how are we infusing that fund foundational content into this curriculum so that we can ensure that when our students are going through our math Pathways that they are set up for success as they graduate because an an electrical engineer um has to know the content you know a medical doctor has to know the content and I know and not every student is going to be I mean I understand there are people who struggle and all that so where how are we infusing content into this yeah and this actually the stool wasn't part of our math Vision I think there's a lot of connections but the stool is actually from mde so I there's a online webinar I can send you the link where they're talking through like what is the definition of mathematical rigor and how do we help support kids so that when I'm hoping I can get to here how how did they get to that advanced level or how did they get to that exceeds level and so they were really talking through that like absolutely I think where you had the content come in sorry I'm poing at this one CU I was told I had to for the public or something um this one this is like this is where I think those Concepts come into play they're talking about like or the content excuse me the content comes into play probably more here is what I'm imagining right because that is like your computational fluency right I need to know my math facts you are 100% correct and we want to make sure that kids I think to the point of others that he we talking through like I need to understand why that works and be able to draw that model again if you go back to the example and I should have left the exceeds one on there now I'm regretting my decision to chop something um he told me how to um so so the advanced one and I can send it to you all or I can put it in the PDF I'm going to send you the advanced one was really about that fractional model um and I think that that gets to the point of like certainly that bottom part right that conceptual understanding and how how to draw that model um I think what I see in the application part is every single one of those questions was a real life application right so how do you take what you know about fractions and equivalent fractions and things like that without standard and how do you apply that in a way that isn't a multiple choice question and actually like almost every single one when you look at them I mean some of the relas examples I'll tell you are better than others I like some of them better than others it's not a perfect system um if you look at the science ones just in a side sorry I know I'm my timeline here just in a side the science ones um the science MCAS this year are going to be more about the experiences where it's almost like they'll simulate a a uh science experiment and kids have to decipher the data that's collected through that experiment so the ones that are released for mca's um for science aren't going to they don't have that interactivity yet built onto that testing 123 website um but to answer your point I think it's both um and this was this definition wasn't necessarily our we should have put the math Vision in there it wasn't the math vision and actually I think to your point I think revisiting that math Vision with this new lens of we're defining academic Excellence like I I think there's a lot in here like this is just a run riger let's talk about some of the other words here I think that could be whole another session um but yeah I think this was the definition that mde um gave on it and just talked through like if you don't have one of those legs it's really not a sturdy stool and that was how their analogy went through about defining mathematical rigor and I thought it was relevant to our conversation around rigger in our district yeah and I think if you you know takes 610 if you don't know how to divide six by two you're not going to get to the answer of three fifths what that's that foundational content y for sure and if you don't know the model that goes with that you're also never going to be able to do the exceeds uhuh Dr Johnson yes so um I got to spend some time in a sage class where they did some math um one of the things with them is that they are restricted to Bridge's only math um and that was a concern to the individual teacher because a lot of those well all of those students are Advanced and she is supplementing so this is statement to a question that also ties in with with CPM and some some things that I have also heard with teachers doing modifications so is that something that is still ongoing within the curriculum is that something you're experiencing is that something you're working through is that normal is that part of the dip um just trying to work through that yeah and I think you want to take the first part sure I'll take the first part I don't remember what the first part was but I'll say something um yeah so thinking about um we have a few friends if if I'm thinking about that like we have kids that are taking middle school math as stage students so we have students that are coming over after first hour in math so we definitely do always use um the acceleration policy when it makes sense right and we've taken the number of kids through that process um to see like yeah are you ready for something more I mean I have a current kindergartener that I'm assessing right now to think about where his right level of placement is so that's always an option um it's very like right I think about like our switch when we decided to say not every single kid just because you're identified from a coat score means that you're ready for or needing a whole great level advancement right now not to say never right but it didn't make sense for all of those Learners in that space um I would say though really interesting it it kind of like perplexed a lot of people but it was an interesting conversation we also saw the biggest growth we've seen in that Sage classroom over the past three years was when they stayed on content stayed on grade level content but got the opportunity to go really deep so it's kind of confusing right because you're like wait how are you actually growing more by staying on this grade level but going deep versus accelerating I think somebody alluded to it like at a fairly surface level sometimes kids need that acceleration for sure we I mean we're a state we need to have an acceleration policy you have a Schoolboard policy on acceleration and I all the process um so certainly that's always an option on the table for students when that makes sense um given where they're at but not every single student in that space necessarily you can be gifted and maybe right now your math skills don't show you need that does that make sense yes and I and I'll take the second question uh related to CPM in in middle school and uh the word you used was it modifications yes y supplementation is probably a better word sure yep and and certainly that is uh those are conversations that we are deeply engaged in with our uh by by level teams uh learning teams and our peer coach uh is working we have one the one one of our peer coaches is working with the Middle School uh Math teachers through this implementation and engaging in what are those necessary adjustments that uh uh were considering and and needing to make uh Gwen molden uh is also working with that uh those teams of teachers and uh that is part of the uh process of a new implementation finding what are those adjustments that are appropriate and collectively as a group of sixth grade teachers or seventh grade teachers or eighth grade teachers uh going through that process while still uh maintaining the level of rigor that's intended uh and part of because of the nature of this curriculum uh that this resource that we're using in CPM and the um the the point that certain concepts are hit multiple times most concepts are hit multiple times throughout the year um making modifications prematurely is something we're trying to be careful not to do until we've been through the whole series of course one at sixth grade course two at seventh course three at eighth grade so that we know the whole sequence of course um before we and see and and I think a lot of our staff are seeing this and students are seeing this as well and reporting to their teachers that um things that they uh see early on they see it again they see it three times maybe four times throughout the course or maybe even more throughout the course of the school year and so we have to be mindful not to make um unnecessary adjustments prematurely and I think that's a balancing act that we're going through in this first year of implementation and that we'll continue to um reflect upon and take the feedback once again that feedback that we got from our students um and our parents and uh make those necess Neary adjustments and director Johnson I'll just close by saying that um there is there is no perfect curriculum curricula is written at a national level kind of to that Bell of the curve if you will um and even curriculum that we might have had for four or five years if you get a cohort of kids that just push things or their learning is in a in a space that you need to bring in a supplement that historically you never have had to do that's what good teaching is so um we're always going to find ways to supplement based upon who's before me today that might look drastically different than who I might have had as you know in my class um last year so so yeah I think that's a a a very well Point uh wellmade point and then even in the long run we will continually be supplementing and maybe making modifications based upon that you know learner profile changing or the relevance of the kids needs that that particular year sure thank you um one other question so just looking at the enrollment and your total number of surveyors I'm I'm going to call uh director's unsh up here on this she's done some deeper the uh the remaining number of middle schoolers can you are all of those the eighth graders that are in advanced math or where are the remaining you're talking about the P the um survey response rate for students no no students were not given the the students who were not given the survey okay what's so what's the question so you so 1,686 students yep were given the survey mhm there were 2,000 86 6th through e8th graders right so the 1,686 is only students who are currently in a CPM class that's not everybody in the Middle School okay y so the advanced math is not a CPM class correct so the so the remaining are all 8th grade advanced math is that correct there's also kiddos okay okay that's just the remaining mhm correct all right cool perfect thank you so I have a question about the implementation data so um thank you for sharing this I think it's really hard to to assess from this feedback whether it was like overwhelmingly positive or negative are we able to get as board members like the um full survey results in common um I can give um so the the slide that was given it was a very quick weekend turnaround time so I didn't have a chance to like fully dive deep but I do have that here tonight um just wanted uh to put forth that um our response rate for parents um I looked at there was a question at the teaching and learning advisory committee about how many households it rep or how many yeah how many households the respondents represented um I did that analysis and that would be 11% so our our parents that responded to this um represent 11% of the households of CPM students so that's um something to keep in mind um in terms of the student data um the top so the the numbers are not going to add up to the 1,686 because there's a lot of answers that didn't fall I mean students responded a lot like I like decimals I like unit six so there's not um thematically um this isn't going to add up so um yeah don't try to do that I mean you can try and do it but it's not going to add up um but for student data um the number one is teacher support so that was 151 students that um said that that was their um a positive I I also have a description and an example response for each um the second one was 88 responses that was collaboration and group work uh the third one was ease of learning 77 uh um 67 is the next one they said that the thing that they like is the challenge level um as a positive um 33 students uh interactive activities and then for challenges for students um homework and pra homework struggles um and stress that would be the top one at 234 uh test and assessment stress at 1:30 uh fractions and deals 105 understanding concepts 91 uh algebra and equations 46 in you don't need to go through them all today so I have all of them if you want to just send them that's perfect um yeah so I have that broken down for each of the questions and each of the response groups um but yes in general um like for the parent one that I know that that's come up a lot the strong teacher support that was 67 responses the top Che challenge um was 25 responses so the number of um responses in terms of the top challenges was um less than half of the top in terms of the positive responses um and again that only represents um 11% of the CPM families J on Bush have we ever before CPM did we ever do a survey like this or you Bridges I was actually going to ask for Bridges if we could yeah I I I think the level of um feedback that and the process frankly um we we have made significant changes to our implementation process uh with curriculum in in recent years and the steps along the way this being one of those steps that previously to this level I mean we we've always surveyed our families about experience at the end of the you know at this time of the year we're doing that right now um we've done that historically for many years but specific to curriculum uh implementation this is not something that we had previously engaged in so I guess my question would be is we don't know homework and stress and test anxiety prior so we don't have a baseline to compare it to that that would be a good point yes I would agree with that statement okay I think as parents as we take surveys though we know what it felt like two years ago before today right so um you know I I having kids this stage will be very blunt to say that my feedback is not very positive and I know that this works well for many students for some it does not um and so you know I don't find it challenging um and rigorous so when I think of rigor I think of like repetition and you know having homework atent home and the responsibility of returning it and I don't think I've seen homework for two years in math so um I guess you know the I'm curious just the general tone of of the feed back and and just I've heard overwhelmingly not as positive maybe but um maybe that's just my circle of contacts I'm not sure well we can provide the the data set so you can take a look at yeah that would coming to the whole board if that's the will of the board um I would like to see that as well and I will just and I would just add I'm going to be real brief here um there is no denying there's a level of frustration right and I understand that the implementation takes time but I think given the fact that the board um approved the math Pathways prior to our new strategic plan being implemented and prior to even knowing that we're implementing the ccpm curriculum I'd like to make a motion this evening to bring the math Pathways to our March study session um so that we can discuss the math Pathways were approved in December 11th of 2023 um but it'll allow us to take a deeper dive into this conversation of math and to really determine if the the math pathways are doing what they're intended to do to inspire Empower and each student to reach their full potential in math and our community has expressed a concern about this topic and I think it deserves fur further explor exploration to ensure that our curriculum meets the needs of students at all levels of the math spectrum and that each learner receives the foundational skills necessary to succeed in high school that's my motion can I get a second I sor that so to simplify my motion is I making a motion to bring the math Pathways to the March study session and you said it was um the math Pathways was approved December 11th of 2023 December 11th 2023 prior to our new strategic plan which was implmented July of 24 July of 24 correct M but we you're making a motion to bring this to the to the our next study session the math Pathways conversation which is really is a conversation about bringing looking at advanced math because um the math Pathways we by redoing the math Pathways in December 20 December 11th 2023 we dropped off the sixth grade advanced math and the seventh grade advanced math so I think given the fact that our strategic plan focuses on rigor and relevant instruction challenging and rigorous and relevant instruction I'd like to bring back and have that conversation um at a study session and we have a you simplified your motion so do we still have a second second discussion um I have a question and this is to Dr Edwards um I know that we had discussion about sage and the concerns about sage and we kind of heard that uh and we've also discussed um the fact that we're in the first year really full year of implementation and I do believe in the 2023 24 school years when we're piloting CPM so I I I struggle to see or to understand if there's enough data or even in the first year so that we could have a more in-depth discussion before the data and the actual um impact of that is is felt I I don't I I I I would be my concern is is it would be premature um because I'm not sure how much we know um and we also you know obviously know that the the feedback from the teachers um that was overwhelmingly accepted um 100% of the board voted and it was discussed that teaching learning of the why and I don't know if we've had enough time to digest that so I would be cautious of again retiga something without data and that's my concern and I'm not sure how the your department would be able I I don't know what we would do I think the point would be to take a deeper dive into the fash bread scores and separate the advanced students from the regular students and to really look and compare like are we meeting their needs um this year versus last year um there's been a loud cry from the communities particularly around advanced math we do have a new board um we have new information and we have a new strategic plan and in order to possibly make a change for the following school year the time to have the conversation is now I think that's passed but um I would just question I could you please answer the the data question yeah so um first one response would be um the anecdotal data at this stage that we're hearing from our teachers as we look at where our students are at at the midyear point in addition to the standardized data collected via fastbridge is um and this was a question that was posed at a teaching and learning in February prior to our presentation at um March meeting regarding looking at student grades the feedback that our teachers have given is that they're what they're seeing collectively is that student grades as they see them are actually more indicative of and a more accurate predictor of where students are actually at in their understanding of math concepts and especially to the presentation content earlier this evening uh a more accurate description of student attainment of math skills as oppos so in previous uh D I say grades might not have been an accurate predictor because our proficiency scores if MCA being the summative measure um our teachers have reported that it's actually a greater predictor now with utilizing the new resource of where students understanding is of math concepts so I'm not quite sure if that answered my question so well uh you were you were going to a place of do we need more data okay I think MCA data this spring uhu and an opportunity to look at that data uh as a data set to do analysis um once again this is year want of implementation um I would caution the level to which we would analyze that data um but again uh there's multiple sets of data student grades are one set of data uh fast bridge scores another set of data MCA triangulation of all of that data and I happen to name three different data sets there are other data sets as well um that we could examine so I I think that that that would be my attempt to answer your question I think I would tend to agree that we need more data before we would engage in that but so I think the ask is maybe just to revisit the conversation and and talk about what data Maybe could we use so can we use grades and look at those or can we you know what other options are there can we look at the number of students that are opting out and that might be enough to fill a classroom um I think there's a lot of factors and that would be the discussion I would love to have um personally I think asking our parents in our community to wait three years when they're extremely frustrated and the are these are kiddos that already lost two years from covid and now asking them to wait three years or seventh graders who have had four different curriculums now in math um that's very frustrating as a parent so I think it is you know our duty as board members to consider the feedback that we've gotten can I ask a clarifying question on this um are you are you proposing looking at taking the quote unquote highest students putting them in a separate class and giving them the same resource I'm struggling to understand what the ask is in terms of advanced math guess that's where like there we have the resource so are you talking about just pulling the kids or doing the best in that class and putting them in a separate class I think we need more data which is why I'd like to go to go this have this go to a study session really focused on those math Pathways meaning like if you take your sixth grade Advance if you take your fifth if you take your sixth grade cohort and there was 100 Advanced kids last year in the sixth grade advanced class is my understanding now they're in seventh grade CPM with no advanced math is my understanding so how are they performing are we meeting their needs or do we need to go back and look at adding a revising a seventh grade advanced math um adding a class I mean we have 23 students opting out of CPM right now we're losing money in our district and and we have many students many parents who are paying for math tutors and we're losing kids because we don't have advanced math options and so I think it even makes more sense given the fact that we did decide to keep stage sage in play in third fourth and fifth grade um it I think it even makes more sense for those kids coming out of sage to have those Advan math learning options as they come into the middle school so new board new strategic plan um I think it's really relevant to bring it to a study session to have a conversation I I hear your question I'm just wondering what it are you suggesting a to like we have a resource that is CPM so are you suggesting taking we would have a regular CPM and advanced CPM that would be the same C it's still the same it is our curricular research so I'm I can you clarify what an advance would look like within our curricular resources actually actually that's I'm going to if I may just hold on that question what I'm trying to understand is the discussion the the motion on the table is to bring back a discussion about math Pathways correct meaning um students who are accessing regular curriculum versus Advanced curriculum I'm just trying to whittle it down to try to get an understanding what the ask on the table is what we're offering and what we're offering in the pathways are we are we teaching those foundational skills is the path that we put in place Meeting those foundational skills to set these students up for Success can I ask a question go ahead so um Dr Edwards correct me if I'm wrong after this year there is no more advanced math there will no longer be advanced math in the middle school is that correct uh the pathways beginning that that's being referred to beginning e8th grade students will make a choice in eighth grade so only follow pathway yep okay so and director ainson you're what you're saying is to essentially be able to offer in advance right so for example Sage students right we talked a little bit about Sage right if those students wanted to choose in advanced just saying CPM I understand again correct me if I'm wrong they don't have an advanced curriculum so maybe we go back to last year's they have great Advan just they have acceleration accelerate so to meet the rigger because they already know it we advance them up in the curriculum so so that exists currently today so say we for the advance advance for any student for any student okay so say we just automatically so that that's I'm trying to understand what getting back to Dr zumo's question what what exactly it's if we bring it to the I know the motion on the table is to bring it to a study session and we can discuss whether or not that's that's warranted or not but to to what end is it Advanced CPM is it a different is it a different there is noan but the CPM is our curriculum so you're talking about a completely separate curriculum that's the discussion we would like to have we would like to understand different options for kids that are advanced in fifth sixth and seventh grade because we've taken away those options right and we do have advanced classes in other subject matters and so we have a we have a strategic plan that says we're going to focus on challenging rigorous and relevant instruction we've heard a multitude of complaints or concerns from parents um regarding their challenges with the CPM curriculum and I just think we need to take a deeper dive into the data to really understand um if we were to bring back a sixth grade advanced math would that help to meet the needs of our most advanced Learners um would that help to level out the playing field of meeting these needs I mean I feel like we're getting too far into the conversation which is why I'd like to have the conversation um you know what I mean yeah we're just trying to get clarity on what to what the conversation ask is yeah that's the ask so and I'm not necessarily opposed to that but in in two weeks what what kind of data will we have that we don't have today you understand what I'm saying yeah I think if we can take a deeper dive into the fast bridge scores I think if we we have data there to support that right I mean we have dashboard scores from last year we have dashboard scores from this year mhm I mean if someone can come up and tell me that every St student every Advanced student in sixth is now in seventh grade regular CPM they're thriving and they're at the highest level of their class then we're good like we're meeting their needs yeah and just for some context so the current fifth graders we do we did last year and we're going to do again this spring is a universal consideration for acceleration so it's not like you have to know about that option as a parent right so we look at all those I think to your point we look at all those fastb scores for our acceleration process there is a certain threshold there's a certain cut score right we're looking for um we did this last spring we're going to do it again this spring we've just recently pulled the data of all those fifth graders and then my communication goes out to them saying we have a couple options and we want to make sure that you know about those options um and so we did that last year we test did a I tested a lot of kids I don't remember how many um I tested a lot of kids and there are some that qualified for that acceleration so we are universally considering especially that like that moving point right that that natural progression from fifth grade to sixth grade so that's already something that was in the works last year it's going to continue this spring too my understanding is there's not an advanced option for our Siege kids though correct so those kids are considered just like anybody else would be so all fifth graders now with the exception of the couple that are already in middle school bth right like I mean they're already advanced certainly they can we've had double acceleration before that's that's a thing if if that makes sense for them right still but still an option right um but we are we will send the communication just like we did last spring of all the kids Sage or otherwise um because there's a lot of families too that are selecting to stay in their home school for a variety of reasons or our choice program the immersion program right so like we don't want to say just for just like we talked about before not every single student in Sage does this make sense for in that moment um but yeah we we can universally consider everybody where is that on the pathways like chart I don't have it in front of me but that math Pathways chart for next year it doesn't show anything Advanced for sixth graders or in this is part of this wouldn't be considered for an advanced course this is for our acceleration process but I don't want families to like only know about it if they know about it you know what I mean it's like we universally consider everybody now certainly that's a conversation cuz not all families will say yes please send my kids to the middle school and and bump them up a grade you know like not everybody is interested in that um but certainly we universally consider everybody yeah it's an advanced it's an advanced pathway it's not it's no longer a course and and I think maybe that's where we're interchanging some language here but per policy um if a student is is eligible for that advanced pathway I'm a fifth grader and I might go into seventh grade math versus sixth grade math right that's something that I can still consider that that option has never gone away that's something that we discussed back in December um of 23 when we talked about these pathway changes so so I'm just which is why I'm just trying to get clear um what if Dr Thomas we had that policy in place we've had that policy 513 I think it is we've had in place for years I'm saying that's not working right now that's that's the part that we're hearing loud and clear from the community and and so the I'm sorry the Poli they're either not utilizing it they're not being tested for I don't know the the behind the scenes we as the board are just the what and the why and I'm saying what are we doing to meet the needs of all Learners we have a new strategic plan in place and why are we hearing so many concerns um from parents about this the Middle School curriculum could it be tied back to the fact that we don't have advanced math in 6th and 7th and if we were to put that back in place would that solve this problem that's the conversation I want to have and I'd like some data to support that how we do that that's really administration's job to figure out so we did talk about the Fidelity of the math program and the sage program uh was it January or February I can't remember uh in the study session uh where we did talk about that a little bit um but I I got voted down in that I got to um I have to ask that this is a decision that I would think would be between the parents and the teachers the principal the head of that department um if the parent thinks the child qualifies and they do qualify but part of the problem we had before and pro and the reason why Sage fifth grade is doing uh more in-depth Bridges is is to is to really try to have some heart into the fatality of the advanced as well as the what we're calling uh gifted and talented uh but also the acceleration I believe was already talked about and that's why I'm confused so what what you know what is the outcome of it and then again do we have the data uh now that we've it's still only in the first year and we have advanced eighth grade and we we don't have that data yet so I'm so if I'm thinking about this properly because we still have advanced in eth grade our sixth graders were in fifth grade last year so are we only talking about current seventh graders that are that are uh maybe at one point had an advanced option that was taken away and six gr we had 100 sixth grade advanced math kids last year right but they're in seventh grade this year correct so I'm I'm trying to break this down into the smallest cohort Pro possible that if if we're requesting you to take a dive into how it's affecting a cohort of students what cohort is it because it's not eighth grade because they're they currently have the option well it's not sixth grade because they were in fifth grade last year so it's really only this year's seventh grad except for the sage kids the sage children all those other fact about 150 kids basically so that's what I'm wondering is would it be possible for you to break that small cohort out cohort out of current seventh graders and have any kind of data that would be helpful to us um to be able to compare their experiences from last year to this year if I Mak sense yep I think I I'm tracking uh and if I may be so bold is to say if we bring it to the March study session that would require us to collect that data between now and next week and that would be a fairly significant and frankly here tonight I don't have real ideas necessarily yet um about what that data would be um that we would bring back to you uh as early as a March study session might we be able to bring some data if that were the will of the board to an April study session for example um to to strategize what data could we bring um we won't have MCA data uh uh available to us because that just actually happens in April when we come back from Spring Break um again I shared earlier we have some anecdotal data and observational data um we would have the first data set that comes to mind is we have registration data from the students how many sections of students are in seventh grade going to eighth grade next year I don't know the answer to this question here tonight um how many of those students uh and have chosen that path and comparing it to those that were in sixth grade had an experience and now are choosing that path in eighth grade um to go on the advanced pathway that they have the opportunity to do that's data that we could probably pull together to inform uh a a brief conversation I don't know that we could have an in-depth conversation that would be a triangulation of multiple data sets I think if we had the number of students in fifth sixth seventh grade that were testing over is it 90% typically that's offered for advanced courses because I have not gotten that feedback from the agage parents or from we've gotten several emails from parents and and a lot of communication from parents whose children are testing over that advanced threshold that we use for every other topic but we're we don't have available for Math and if you look at the middle school registration there's no middle school advanced math offering for the those students so I'm not sure where the miscommunication is when we're saying yes we offer it but we don't um that's the feedback that I've heard they're not being offered it for the kids that are testing over 90 I believe it's 90% correct correct I'm wrong I just want to see if I heard you correctly you're saying those families are reporting to you that they aren't being offered the advanced Pathway to accelerate because there is no they're not there's no course but they are being offered referred the advanced learning Pathway to basically grade skip which is essentially a new course for them I have not heard that from Sage parents in fact many are looking at alternative options so maybe it's a miscommunication I'm curious now but um so one of the data sets that I as as I'm listening to this conversation that I have not heard reported to me from Mr kabek is uh what the conversations I know that Mr kabush a number was was brought forward into this conversation of the uh families who are choosing to not have their student enrolled that is 23 students which is 1% of our eligible students for that um and Mr kabek has had conversations with each of those families I have not heard him report and I will follow up with him uh to find out uh what level of conversation this has been at at the middle school level that would be one additional piece of data that we could bring forward um should that be the desire but again aside from that I don't know that we would have necessarily comprehensive uh data set to bring forward beyond that at this point you had a comment Le yeah I just wanted to clarify that so when I'm pulling those like fifth graders like we did last year yeah that threshold is at the 98th percentile so not 90th um and that communication has not gone out yet to those families so that might be why other topic for other yeah yeah yeah yeah so I'm thinking like for the like right like you might be eligible and let's talk about let's have a conversation around what that might look like they've gotten letters for English for Minnesota studies for science just not math then you're saying right because this is a different type of pathway right this is like thinking about ensuring that everybody knows knows that acceleration might be an option for their child and we certainly do like we accelerated a seventh grader mid year um he was very um it was great it was the kid driving that the parents are like I I don't know if this is the right move do you think it is I mean but the kid was very adamant the teacher supported it and and it made sense the data he knew a lot and so we we moved him at semester break so there's always that so feel free to send folks that feel like they need more you know my way like I I love the conversations like that those are fun to have yeah cuz I you know when I think about the families who have opted out so to speak you know those conversations that principal kabush has had at the site level you know if if there are needs that we can identify for for them we can we'll continue to explore that but 1% of our population you know and I'm trying to understand and truly trying to qualify quantify sorry all these people um and and where those conversations are taking place at the site level if there's if that's not occurring all these people coming to the board without trying to address it where it matters first that's where I'm trying to understand like the numbers we have I wouldn't call all those people and and I'm not suggesting that that's the the the exact term or whatever but who are we talking about how many are we talking about because to your point chair white if it's a band of of a cohort of kids it's not all these people let's have this conversation um to to address that uh that so so I'm concerned to be able to meet the the if this is the will of the board to bring breadth of new data to the conversation that would satisfy what you you're speaking to tonight honestly before we even have a chance to have the conversation which sounds like there might be some breaks somewhere along the line just from our own exploration tonight at the Das um so so that that's my concern where we if this is the will of the board we'll figure this out but of what we should bring CH white um if I can do I my concern uh my concern is when statements such as the community is um because I'm in contact with the community as well and I don't hear only negative I I actually hear overwhelmingly positive and um director Mason you sh you shared you know you didn't know if it was maybe your circle you have a fifth grader and I I'm not saying that it is just your circle but that is that my concern is when there are broad statements like the community is upset about this or or feeling challenged and I'm not saying that I don't agree that people are challenged I have also heard personal experiences of high highly challenged with this new curriculum and I you know I I am sensitive to that information I think but to to to say that the overwhelming Community response I just I'm out there I'm not I don't hear an overwhelming negative so I'm I'm concerned what bringing this forward in two weeks at a I'm I'm concerned about um where it would go I think the biggest thing when when you know you talk about the 23 students that have opted out I I have been in contact with Mr kabucho just checking in I've checked in with with parents who have opted out um I I think that you know we have to always encourage and remember that um parents to teachers that is the the closest proximity to Student Success and student achievement is in those conversations so I'm concerned about it just being brought to board level that quickly especially when we're so new into the implementation of this I I hear the concerns about the um Advanced uh classes and how it looks different but it looks different we have a a different curriculum so I'm I'm concerned about being too hasty I'm not sure what we could accompl accomplish talking here I don't know and director Bolan I want to be real clear with what my ask is I'm not asking for us to vote or talk about CPM going away because I also just like you I'm out in the community and I do hear positive things about CPM from teachers and students but what I'm specifically referring to are the students who are struggling on the high end of the SK of of the spectrum who are specifically struggling with the that we have don't have that advanced math option anymore that's what I'm referring to and so I want to be specifically because of our strategic plan I want to I thought it was relevant to bring this conversation back to have a more dep in-depth conversation we shouldn't even be having it here to be honest with you and if we're looking at a coure her of 150 kids pulling those fast brid scores shouldn't take very long I would think it'd be we'd pretty much be able to pull the data and have the conversation in a couple weeks and move on and decide where how we want to move forward to meet the needs of all Learners we talk a lot about hurting the minority and the minority this or the minority that there is a minority of students of cohorts that are not we are not meeting their needs right now in our district director ainson when you share that there are students that we are not meeting their needs my ask of you is if they're coming to you are you asking them to reach to their teacher and their build 100% okay because that's I mean that's really where the conversation passed the start and I don't I mean we as a board are in charge of curriculum that's our role so I'm just saying I think it's worthy of and I'd like to hear from other board directors besides myself and um is this the will of the board can I ask can I add a contextual piece to this So currently we do have seventh grade advanced math so that specific cohort that you're talking about that would not work as a study cohort because we're phasing it out so we do currently have seventh grade advanced math but they're being taught CPM yes they yes in advanced so that's where I'm just logistically the co that 150 that you're talking about specifically they are currently in an advanced course because they're all together in one class is that what you're saying they've been kept together yes they've been kept together in one class they're in yeah it's relevant I think it's still relevant data so I I think we just at this point I think we need to go around I mean I think per Robert's Rules right the mo was raised and we have a second so we should we should we should goward and so we should the board meeting one last question because I what I just heard is brand new to me so there is currently an advanced 7eventh grade math option is that what I'm hearing yes they were in advaned as sixth graders because we previously had identified them so they stayed in an advance what is true is that their resource their curriculum and they were a part of that study that we presented the data around is our CPM resource and how many seventh graders are we talking about I think 15ish would be my ballpark so before I call the question what what data does the board expect by the end of March and is it possible to pull it together because I don't want I'd rather have no information than bad information or incomplete information I'm all about the data but if it's not there it'll be a it will be completely not productive um we can and and what so what what questions will we be asking of these 150 cohort I'm I'm I'm not opposed to this I'm just confused as to what we're going to be able to accomplish in March that we couldn't accomplish tonight that that's my that's my concern from what I understand with your motion and what I was advocating for was to bring back the discussion around the pathways option that are Prov that are options to parents right now the pathways shown on that sheet do not show advanced math for our Siege fifth graders sixth and seventh graders so maybe we just need to revisit that conversation to understand truly if that's not the case um so maybe that's where to me that's a different question that that's a that's a clarification of what we're going to do going forward not picking out cohort and getting all this data that's going to take you forever and you won't be able to do it in two weeks that I can understand that was my concern I can pull I can pull data I just need Clarity on what I need to pull and for what purp the only reason I was asking from data because data drives decisions right so if it's just a conversation I'm fine with that and I'm more than happy to have the conversation I'm also happy to pull any data I just need Clarity on what you all need from I'm hearing two different things I'm hearing from director Mason that she wants to know what's the plan for these that was my Cort that truly was my motion uh as opposed to I hear you asking how are the kids that would have been in advanced math currently doing those are two totally different asks one seems simple enough it's a clarification question one seems like a deep dive that I don't know if Administration can pull together an amount of data that would be helpful to us in a in a week and a half that's I'm I'm I'm just yeah due to the timing I think bringing just the conversation is would be maybe we start there we could start there yes because that way then we could possibly take a deeper dive if we need to director France I don't want to have a conversation without the data and I don't want to have a conversation without the feedback from the teachers and them being prepped and I'll just be honest with you a week and a half with everything else that we got going on with the budget cuts and things like that that's not doable to me but I do think that we do need to revisit this I don't believe that March is the time to do it that's my and and I would like to make sure that the um again the same data that was used that which is very indepth with a lot of feedback from teachers on why these new Pathways and why the preference to acceleration was made needs to be the foundational piece of which we're going to Pivot off of and if we're not ready to do that which I would assume in a week and a half we're not going to be that's just my feeling then then I would ask that we you know basically like we do with a lot of study sessions say when can you be ready uh with a more robust discussion about how we're doing if you're seeing the results you wanted to see if you even can see the results like I said it's been a year we've only removed one and we're still phasing out the other and it's our first year of CPM so to me that would be incomplete but I mean it's just that I don't want to sit there and have a discussion on something where we're just pontificating with with no rationale no data behind IT director fence you know that the rationale I'm sorry really is the rationale is that we have a new strategic plan and this the pathway change was done before the Strategic plan was put in place and the community was loud and clear about rigorous relevant um challenging instruction which to me lends back to the advanced math conversation so so I I'm not saying we ever we never did that so but go ahead chair sorry so that I'm going back to your question so if when would that be a reasonable timetable or even a not slightly unreasonable if we're not talking March I I I do believe we would want a data set that includes standardized assessments MCAS spring um fast Bridge uh and analysis of the first year of data possibly grades I mean truly a a a year in review a year in review of comprehensive triangulation of multiple data sets would be in my opinion if you're asking my opinion the wisest thing to consider um short of that comprehensive set of data I think we are at risk of doing something that frankly the field of education has done many years over try something and we walk away from it before we've actually implemented it and director Edwards are you saying that the MCA is getting the data at once because we have access to the at once data and using that data in the spring because we wouldn't want to wait till the fall to get the MC no I'm not suggesting this would be a fall um I also because teachers do have access to it almost instantaneously correct we could utilize um the data we have to be mindful of it because of the embargoed nature of the data we would have to be cognizant of that so we're not trying to review the the uh CPA results is where I'm struggling like we're trying to understand the pathway options for students going into middle school or fifth graders in sage and students going into Middle School that we don't offer so those kids wouldn't be in CPM most of them anyway now so that's so we could use old MCA data for last year I'm just trying to understand like how many kids would qualify and you know what what are the offerings that we have for them and again a different uh piece of this is um I think the conversation that was shared by director bullan and D director white um with regard to the amount of feedback uh I I I don't stand here tonight before you prepared to share any of that until I would have an opportunity to engage with Mr kabek at the middle school level and his staff who have been engaged in the registration process throughout the months of January and February with families and say how significant is this concern um I thank you for that uh thank you for bringing forth the motion um I will not be supporting the the motion as it is right now um I think again as director buen you know stated about painting broad Strokes I don't think that's fair um I you know we can't unless somebody talks to every single member of this Comm I I hesitate you know you know talking about the community says X or the community says y um this pathway this particular pathway was supported by Math teachers and recommended by Math teachers teaching the actual classes um and so I take a lot of stock in that I am in no way in no way dismissing um Family feedback on this positive or negative AB absolutely not and in full transparency I have a daughter who was in the CPM pilot last year and is in in is in acpm class this year as well as an eighth grader so I want to make that very transparent um but I I I can't support this motion right now well we have a motion in a second on the table chair white I think we have we have the motion actually like as you discussed has there was been two different clar you know clarifications of the motion so we need clarification of the motion in that's my ask what is the clarification of the motion because the motion is to bring to director Mason it's been too different um it's been two different statements the motion is to bring back the a conversation to our much March study session session regarding math Pathways and my reason for bringing it back is because of the timing of it was previous to when our strategic plan was adopted and we have a new strategic plan in place and the the conversation really is centered around the Strategic plan and are we meeting the needs of all Learners that's the the motion that's on the floor and if we need to amend the motion if somebody wants to amend the motion I'm you obviously have the right to do that but I think we just need to go around and see if the motion has support to move forward at this point um director ol said said you know stated her comments and I don't if we want to go on the table or Dr Johnson yeah I'm in full support that's I'm good with that D bullan I do not support it coming back for the mar Dr France I do not support it and plus our previous strategic plan also said we're going to support all Learners so I I don't like that even being in the motion but no I don't support it I'm not going to support something based on speculation and in Endo with with no no full data and director Mason yes I'm supportive of revisiting the pathways and well I I I would be except it's in March that that part needs to be amended or I'm a no because we're not going to get any reasonably effective data in 2 weeks that's my that's my hang-up so if this can wait longer and somebody wants to amend it to so be a later a later date you're telling me it's a full data sets May is is that what I'm hearing from you with all they at least at at the earliest May to have a full full data set I can amend the motion to bring math Pathways conversation to our may study session I will second that motion is there a discussion on the amendment I I would actually say June if they're not getting the data until May um that's just my thing I it just didn't doesn't seem to make much sense if I mean May or June isn't going to make that much of a difference I don't know if we have Clarity on what data we're going to get so challenge if we're waiting for this year's MCAS which I don't think we need to wait for um of course but you know I think we can use other information what I understand that's a good point um if I can qualify it's not just the MCAS it's grades it's fastbridge it's other assessments yeah I I I I don't stand here tonight under having a full understanding of what would be data that would help inform that conversation I I'm I'm making some uh statement about the types of data that I think would be helpful um and the concept that triangulation of data is necessary to to truly informed decisions that's what I was speaking of so I um but if if the I would if the motion included the specific data that would need to be brought forward um that would be helpful chair white yes sorry to interrupt but um a current schedule there's not a work session in June it's just a retreat we moved it to June there would need to be addition of a work session thank you for that to Big Clarity actually that's a good point would we rather do this at a retreat that's something that we could actually do a deeper dive instead of at a study session dedicate I'm just throwing that out out the top of my cuff I have I think for transparency on this topic with our community I think it would be better in a study session except we could we I'm I happen to agree with director France that a retreat setting would allow for a deeper dive into a more accurate cord of data if I'm not if I'm hearing everybody correctly so we have a we have a motion on the table to amend the original amendment to move the the requested study session topic to May is there if there's no further discussion all in favor signify by saying I I opposed n nay motion fails 4 to three now back to the original motion uh whether there was a first and a second to bring the study session bring this to a study session in March correct all in all in favor signify by saying I I opposed n nay motion fails 4 to three can I make a new motion can I can I ask a clarifying question yes um do you need a vote to bring something to study session or just a motion in a second we don't need a vote at all we don't need a vote at all so can but based on what I'm hearing tonight the board will the B the boards will the board this is going to happen I think it has to be later rather than sooner and I think the best option is a is is a June Retreat study session whatever you want to call we can add something to the calendar that's that's up to us so um just so that we have the right kind of data that that we are going to have to have in order to revisit this like you said is reasonable reasonable to do um um I will I will I will certainly know put forth that would we bring this back either at a study session or what are the we have one Retreat date in June is that what I we have a retreat date in June that's normally reserved in June for is that date already set well it is but it's something that we change every year based upon availability sometimes staff um especially at that time of year you name it but it's it's kind of just a placeholder we can do we're the board we can we if we want to schedule another study session we can so can I make a motion to add a study session session in June to discuss the math Pathways second second any discussion all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed nay motion carries 61 I will get you back I'll work with Dr Thomas and vice chair bullan on a date in June and try to get that out to you at a reasonable Advanced time and as well as the administration so they can get whatever data they need and if there is specific data director aison that you'd be interested in if you get that to me so that I can flush it out sure and we can go from there all right thank you sorry my voice is about had it um next in the agenda uh the school board meeting dates for 2025 26 uh as presented I'll accept a motion to accept those dates Name by director Johnson second second by director Mason there's no discussion all favor signify by saying I some discussion one of course no I just have a question I think the October date was on Columbus Day is that okay to have it on that date yes okay and then I can't find my paperwork because I had one other date that looked like there was a conflict sorry drawing a blank I went through them last night um November 10th Martha November 10th that's um November 11th or 10th or something like that that is also I think a holiday November 11th so we're good with the 10th that's okay that was the other one I believe that I was I had a note on so okay so as long as we're good to meet on those dates then those are the only questions that I had sorry can I make the work anyone else uh I had a question on uh December 8th where it says the study session if needed prior to regular meeting shouldn't that be after would we have a study session after December 8 we typically only meet once in dece if needed session if needed would be after the regular meeting correct not before actually we usually do it before but yeah we usually do but we could do either again we if we want to do it afterwards we can make we have plenty of time to make changes um can be the same have we ever done it before in the last couple of years no we usually have the study session and then as soon as we're done with the topic for the study session we go on board especially if we're going to vote on what we talked about in the study session oh sure okay thank you that's what that means okay thank you anyone else all right all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carries 70 moving down to policy we have policy 4113 this is a first and final reading uh my understanding is there's a very insignificant one sentence change uh director Herman you want to speak to that chair white members of the board this is in relation to uh change to legislation that's why it can be read um and approved in the same meeting um legislation did expand the definition Under Disability so you see that reflected in the changes in the packet is there a motion to approve policy 413 is presented so made by director bullion second second by director France discussion yes one question director Herman um was it a change in legislation I or was it only msba added the sentence to their model policy director Johnson it's my understanding it was a change in legislation but I can double check on that um based off of reading their policy newsletter but I'll double check okay that yeah director Johnson I can confirm that that exact verbiage is from legislation yes I I saw that it was in the legislation I just didn't see when I when I read when I read it it didn't say that it was updated um so I didn't know if you had additional information um from msba it sounds like you do so um that they got an update or something like that so yeah Dr Johnson that's my understanding if that is incorrect I will follow up with the board to correct that appreciate it thank you further discussion I did have a question yeah so I did see it added to msba too so that's helpful I was just also looking through msba and I'm curious the protected classifications for everything else mostly follows mba's ble policy but for one and four they were added um so I don't I don't know if there's a reason for that I know one is covered basically in I'm sorry four is covered in eight in msba I was just curious what that means especially the age classification too director Mason um chair white I'm not aware if we can discuss any of that since this is just for the legislative changes of first and only reading um I just don't know if that's acceptable to have that discussion here or not I'm happy to answer the question but I'm just not aware it's a very good question I honestly don't know I think we're voting on because because of the nature of the change we can do a first and final right today CH correct I just didn't know if we could talk about the other parts of the policy that are not related to legislative change in a first and only reading that's where I I think that's just the change goes back okay um director Mason I'm happy to follow up with the board to answer that question thank you director Herman motion a second on the table there's no further discussion all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carry 70 we moving down to administrative reports are there any administrative reports tonight no you guys had a lot of FaceTime tonight so we'll move down to board reports I think we have a student council report I'll just try to keep it brief um I'm going to wish everyone a Happy woman's History Month of course um for those who celebrate hopefully every everybody um and then just congratulations to a lot of our sports teams and clubs mock trial Deca boy swiming dive basketball wrestling they all made to state or Nationals and it's just a really great year so congrats to those teams um we have a Laker leaders talent show March 21st 700 p.m. that you guys should all go to so we got some great performances lined up um so just have that on your calendar if you're available um in regards to student council we're just um like we're kind of recovering from our snowball week we had a really successful week great engagement thank you to those who came to some of our events um and right now we're just preparing for spring events and kind of working on our year-long standing committee goals I'd like to highlight the development committee for completing their two-year-long project and installing updated feminine hygiene products into the women's bathrooms and yeah that's all I have tonight thank you thank you are there any board reports um yes I'll just U mention very quickly um the West Metro uh board uh and staff and families had a retreat an all day Retreat about 3 weeks ago um as I mentioned before um they have hired the district has hired grace badier young to do a strategic plan um and so uh basically we're outlining our goals in March and April um and so I'll have more to share after that but I just wanted to mention the retreat and it was lovely they had families come in staff members um the um most of the board members were there and are the new superintendent so it was a really great day so thank you yeah I just want to Echo what our our student rep said you know wrestling made State took six uh boys swimming went to State took third our girls outline won sections and took third um girls Nordic ski for the first time in school history uh gymnastics qualified five individuals most in school history um and uh boys basketball uh Wednesday at Shaka so pretty um I attended the early childhood education committee and I will say that was my first meeting and I was just it was so awesome to see these itty Bitties in our school district um they're doing some they have a really awesome imp parent parent engagement um committee so it was really exciting to see some new Fresh Faces there they're very engaged they created a book swap within the building which was awesome um they have some great fun events planned and one of the things that touched my heart so much was they do something called Art to Remember so they have they take the art that the little the kiddos create and then the parents can buy things like a coaster or a coffee mug and it just it really touched my heart of all the memories of when my kids were little um earlier they stole my thunder that there's 30 staff in the um ECS EC E I can't say that sorry it's too late early childhood education ation committee they raised $115,000 for Polar Plunge Special Olympics and we know a lot of that money came back to our district so thank you for all that um and that's it so thank you Dr bullan oh we've there's been a lot going on we um day at the capital today um I think if I wanted to share a funny from the day was one of our one of our legislators said if there was only a magic money tree and I thought well let's get to work that's my own I guess that was my only report okay um no updates all right well we have reached the end of the agenda our future events are as listed uh study session on the 24th here at 6:00 we're going to try out slightly different Arrangement we're going to be up here see if it works kick it around a bunch of different options this is going to be try one we'll see if it works if it doesn't work we'll we'll keep working until we get it right um and then the events that are are listed spring breaks coming up and district office will be closed on April 3rd and 4th there's no more business to come before the board I will entertain a motion to adjourn so made by director bullan second second byor Johnson all in favor signify by saying I I opposed we are adjourned