Good evening and welcome to the June 1st, 20126 meeting of the Prior League Plan Commission. I'd like to invite you all to stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you everyone. Right now, we will move into uh tonight's agenda. I note that we have uh one public hearing, two items of old business, one item of new business, and then some uh announcements for staff and uh planning commissioners to talk just briefly about um and to share with the the wider um viewing a audience and those of you um in the chamber. Uh right now I'd like to uh suggest approval of tonight's agenda. Is there a motion to approve tonight's agenda? >> So moved. >> We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. I. >> Any opposed? >> Seeing none, we'll move to item number three, approval of the May 18th planning commission meeting minutes. Is there a motion to approve those minutes? So move. We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, those minutes are uh approved. Just a few comments before we move on with our uh public hearing. Uh on behalf of my fellow commissioners and staff, I'd like to welcome everyone and review the public hearing procedure we will follow this evening. First, staff will present its report on the request or issue at hand and planning commission commissioners will have an opportunity to post questions or comments about that staff report. Next, the applicant, if there is one, will have an opportunity to address the commission and commissioners can respond with questions or comments. Following the applicant's presentation, I will formally open the floor uh to public comment. If you wish to address the commission, I'd ask that you please approach the podium, press the red button to turn on the microphone, and then clearly state your name and address for the official record. So, everyone will have a chance to speak. We ask that you limit your comments to 5 to seven minutes in length and that you make concise statements of fact pertaining to the specific item or application. This meeting is the official public hearing and your primary opportunity to be heard on this matter. The city council has no obligation to accept further public comment and in many cases they do not. So please don't hesitate to speak. And with that, I will turn it over to staff for agenda item 4A. This is PDEV26-000000006-1491 Eagle Creek Avenue Northeast. Thank you, Chair Fleming. Good evening, commissioners. So, the request before you this evening is from PY Homes of Minnesota LLC. They are the applicant along with the property owner, Verlink Family Limited Partnership. There are five separate requests on included in this agenda item uh that will go through each of them individually. Uh a 2040 city of Prior Lake future land use map amendment, an official zoning map amendment, an easement vacation, a preliminary planned unit development plan, and a preliminary plat for Marlo Ridge second edition. So each of these items will be uh involved in the public hearing this evening uh for a planning commission to make a recommendation to the city council on a final decision related to all five. The applicant is proposing a 262 unit low and medium and density residential subdivision on the subject property. The commission and the public will probably recall that earlier in May the planning commission held a public hearing and recommended approval of the Marlo Ridge plat. So the city council will be considering that plat on June 9th. And as a reminder that was just an outlaw only plat. So that if approved and recorded will create outlot A which is approximately 22 acres on the north side of the property at the intersection of 21 and 42. that's guided for business office park will remain guided as business office park and the owner is going to retain that property. The owner is also going to retain outlot C which is a 55 acre parcel on the southern end along the shore of Prior Lake and the subject property that's highlighted outlot B that is what is proposed for purchase and development for residential purposes by by PY. So all of the applications on your agenda this evening only relate to outlot B. There is no development proposal or applications for outlots A or out lot C at this time. So the first request is a future land use plan amendment. So the city of Prairie Lake has a land use plan. It's adopted as part of our 2040 comprehensive plan. When we're getting into the 2050 comprehensive plan process, that land use plan will be looked at again. It is figure 3.2 in chapter 3, which is the land use chapter. So, this plan guides uh future residential and commercial development of our community. All parcels have a land use plan guidance. If we are proposing any changes to that or development that isn't exactly fit within those parameters, we need to hold a public hearing to amend the plan, city council needs to take action and ultimately the metropolitan council needs to review and approve that request. So, the subject property is highlighted. Currently there is about 20 acres of business office park. A large uh portion of that is covered by by an existing wetland. There is 42 acres guided for lowdensity residential and approximately 18 acres for medium. The applicant is proposing to amend the land use plan for lowdensity residential on the east side of proposed Siri lane extension and medium density on the west. There would be a small amount of business office park on the north side of Fountain Hills because the the land use guidance would go to the center line of the rightway. So, Prior Lake values and places a high priority on conserving commercial industrial property. I have been here for many years and I can't recall uh when Prior Lake has reszoned commercial for residential purposes. Um, in this case, uh, staff does think it makes sense when you look at the site. So, when we do the land use plan, it's colors on a map, but when you get down into the into the weeds and look at the site, um, the image on the right shows the topography as it exists today. So, one, uh, this property is covered by a 13 acre wetland, so it's not entirely buildable. There's probably around 10 acres of buildable property, but when you look at the elevations of 936 at the high point and then 870 when you get to Fountain Hills, there is over 60 ft of fall on this site, which makes it extremely difficult for commercial development. Uh residential is still difficult, but a bit easier. Um, in the grading plan that's proposed, I believe the developer, you know, proposes to have about 30 feet of elevation change in this area, but for a commercial development to work, the pad needs to be relatively flat. Uh, the zoning map amendment, much like the the comprehensive plan, the current zoning is shown on on the middle of the screen, the image on the left, and the proposed zoning is on the right. So currently there is a mix of four different zoning districts in this property. R1 which is our lowdensity residential, R3 which is our highdensity residential, C1 neighborhood commercial and C3 business park. The applicant is proposing to amend our zoning use plan to match the guidance they're requesting in the comprehensive plan. So it would be R1 lowdensity residential east of Suriri Lane and R2 medium density residential west of Suriri Lane. City code addresses amendments to the comprehensive plan and the process is very similar to what is done for a conditional use permit. Um planning commission holds a public hearing, makes a recommendation to city council. City Council approves an ordinance amending the the zoning map. Uh if the future land use plan amendments are approved, it would make sense. Staff would support the the reszoning as well because the the zoning map should match the land use guidance. Uh the uses proposed uh the R1 and the R2 use districts would be compatible with adjacent developments. There is low density residential to the south and east and a planned unit development residential density that is a a mix of low and medium to the west ac across from uh County Road 21. The request includes an easement vacation request. So in 1995, the city received uh roadway drainage and utility easements via condemnation action along basically on the north side of Carriage Hills. Some of these easements were for construction purposes. Others were permanent. The applicant is proposing to vacate these easements um as they're no longer they would be no longer necessary because their plat if approved would dedicate the necessary right away and it would dedicate the necessary drainage and utility easements. Uh these were just in place until future development. That process too involves holding a public hearing and reviewing these easements for conformance with the comprehensive plan. Um, in this case, the the comprehensive plan would require easements for sanitary sewer, storm, water, rightway, those would all be dedicated on a final plat in the future if approved. The preliminary PUD plan. So this is the planned unit development plan that is proposed by the developer with medium density west of Suriri, low density east of Suriri. The site is 87.7 total acres. Of that there is about 70 net acres that are developable when you net out the county rightway and the wetland areas. Again, they're proposing a 262 unit uh residential development. And then topography on the site is challenging. Um, again, low 870 is the low point. The southeast corner of the site reaches about 958. There are four wetlands on the property. A large 13 acre wetland that everybody sees when they drive north or south on County Road 21, and then there's three others that total a half acre uh between the three of them. So, the developer is proposing to impact just over two acres. About an acre and a half of that impact is for the construction of Fountain Hills Drive to County Road 21. All of their wetland impacts will be reviewed and will comply with the wetland conservation act requirements. Uh in addition, the developer is working with the Prior Lake Spring Lake Wershed District. I believe they'll touch on this a bit later to bring the elevation of the wetland up and improve the quality of the wetland which would allow for phosphorous treatments and different things uh before this water ultimately reaches uh Pike Lake and then drains north to the river. Uh as a condition of approval of anything uh that gets to the city council platwise, the Prior Lake Spring Lake wershed district does require a buffer easement be dedicated. So it's a conservation easement in favor of the wershed district so that there can be no impact whatsoever within the wetland setback area. Uh density for the overall PUD plan the the site again it's approximately 70 acres with 262 units proposed. That works out to be about a 3.75 unit per acre overall density. Our low density residential standards in our comprehensive plan are two and a half acres on the low end. We can't go lower than two and a half and then 3.9 on the high end. Medium density is 4 to 7.9 units per acre. In this example, as proposed, the low density residential area would be developed at a 2.64 2.65 unit per acre, which is very near the low end. And the medium density residential is proposed on so 37 acres 176 units which is 4.7 units per acre. The setbacks proposed and requested by the developer are shown on the the slide in front of you. So the the standard front yard setback for an R1 or an R2 district is 25 feet. The developer is proposing 20 feet. Uh, a large part of that is because the well, we worked with the developer previously on a on a development in the community where only 50 feet of rightway was obtained for the city's local street easement. Uh, the public works design manual has been updated and now the city requests 60 feet. So, the feel from the front of the home to the actual curb is going to feel very similar to all other neighborhoods in our community, but the right of way dedication is 60 and that's where the measurement is made from. developer is proposing a seven and a half foot sideyard setback for all of their units except the town home units which would have a 20 20 foot distance between buildings. The rear yard setback is proposed to meet the 25- ft requirement and the sideyard abuing street is also proposed like the front yard at 20 as opposed to 25. storm water. There's a series of storm water ponds and bofiltration basins proposed. This is currently under review with our engineering staff and the Prair Lake Spring Lake wershed district. But the ponds would accomplish and meet the required rules for rate and volume control and their storm water management plan. It decreases the peak discharge rates below the existing condition. So with this development, storm water discharge rates would improve over what they are today with no development for two 10 and 100year storm events. Trees I under there's a lot of numbers on your screen. I apologize for that. Um there's approximately 4500 inches caliber inches of trees that were identified on the property. The developer is proposing to save 824 and remove uh over 3,600. So in our tree preservation plan, a development is allowed to remove 35% of the caliber inches of trees without required replacement. And then in addition, the the tree preservation ordinance provides a credit of two times inches saved for heritage trees. Now those are the significant trees of age and size. Uh the developer is proposing saving 283 inches of heritage trees. That all boils down to the requirement for tree planting is 482 in of new trees. The developer is proposing 513 trees and will be planting about 1,150 inches of trees in their development. So this plan would meet and it would exceed our requirements in city code. the proposed streets. So, the developer is proposing an 80 foot rightway width and a 44 foot wide uh curb to curb on Fountain Hills, which would match the existing Fountain Hills. Uh Siri Lane would be an 80 foot width and a 36 foot wide curb to curb. That would be those would both be minor collector streets. And then all of the local streets would have a 60-oot rideway and a 32 foot curb to curb. All of those would meet our public works engineering standards as well as the culde-sacs. Um trails was discussed during the previous public hearing. Um this map shows in red where the sidewalks are proposed in this development. So there's currently south of the development an existing trail on the south side of Carriage Hills and a sidewalk on the north side. Those would remain. There's an existing trail on the east side of County Highway 21 that would remain and then the developer would be installing sidewalks throughout their development where it is shown on your screen. Essentially, every street will have a walking path on one side of it and Siri lane will have a walking path on both sides. So for the PUD request, the developer is requesting a PUD overlay district to provide exceptions to our minimum lot width, lot area, front side, and corner side yard setbacks. And the public benefits proposed by the developer in exchange for those modifications um are enhancing the large wetland complex on the site, creating additional trail and sidewalk connections, constructing two important minor collector streets at developer cost, providing a variety of housing options for different housing options at varying price points. dedicating additional right ofway on Carriage Hills, County Road 21 and Fountain Hills and contributing funding towards a future intersection improvement at 21 and Fountain Hills. And city staff supports and recommends approval of the preliminary PUD plan. And the final of our five requests is a uh preliminary plat. This would be phase one of a multi-phase development. So, Marlo Ridge Second Edition proposes 12 twin home units, 12 town home units, and 25, excuse me, 22 single family detach lots. The developer is proposing development along the southern side of the property just north of Carriage Hills. Uh, this first phase would also dedicate the necessary right of way for Suriri Lane and Fountain Hills. and then through the final plat process would secure funding for the street and utility constructions in those areas of the plat. The developer prefers uh development from the south in this instance because that that area includes all four different housing types and they would like to start construction and have model units available uh for the spring shows. So there would be a town home unit, a twin home unit, and then both of their single family detached lot styles. Along with the phase one, the developer is proposing to extend sanitary sewer from the north side of the development from Fountain Hills and water will be extended from the south uh from Carriage Hills. This plan would have sewer and water utilities within platted outs. So the city would obtain drainage and utility easements either legally described over the actual utility or maybe just a drainage and utility easement blanket over the entire lot. So density of this specific development of phase one, the low density residential area is approximately uh 7 and a half acres with 22 units proposed. So roughly 2.9 units per acre. The medium density area is just under five acres with 24 units proposed. So a density of 4.8. And both would be within that uh targeted density range. The low again is is 2.5 to uh 3.9 units an acre and the medium is four to 7.9. And staff supports and recommends approval of the preliminary plat as well. I wanted to touch on a little bit. Uh I know I included some information for the commissioners and the public in the report, but we did receive some very thoughtful comments during the May 4th public hearing on this item. Um at times I think residents might feel that the city didn't listen or or you know the planning commission didn't hear the comments. So, I wanted to to spend a little bit of time going through those comments and trying to address them and maybe giving reasons for why city staff takes the position that it does. Um, I do have our public works director uh city engineer Nick Monserude uh with me this evening and he will handle a few of the questions related to parks and traffic and intersections. Uh when we get to those along with that we'll cover density. Um, trails and sidewalks was was covered earlier in the report. Uh, but if you have questions, let me know. And then also since the public hearing, I did have a couple residents reach out to me with questions about potential impacts to the school district that I thought were very good questions. So, I wanted to include that information for the commission as well. Excuse me. So on density, um just a few general comments from from the public at the last hearing when they reviewed the site plan that was shown saying that the density, you know, it's too many units. The overall density is too high. Um we were asked as staff at that meeting to provide a comparison of the proposed development with some existing subdivisions recently approved. Um it's difficult to do. I don't have a good apples to apples comparison for you because this development has multiple land use guidance uh classifications and multiple zoning districts. Most other residential developments we do, they're just low density or they're just medium density. They're not both. So, I do have a few to compare, but they're not, you know, going to be truly again an apples to apples. So, Trillium Cove is similar in the housing types that are being proposed and somewhat similar in the number of units. So, that was 207 units, but Trillium Cove was only guided for low density. There was no again, you know, this has medium density guidance. It has high density res uh zoning guidance. Um, Trillium Cove built 142 single family detach homes and 65 town homes on 61 net acres for a density of 3.4 4 units an acre. Haven Ridge, which is located north of 42 off of Crest Avenue, that was uh done in multiple phases uh both by Ammoni Homes and Winkler Land Company. That was also guided for lowdensity residential in that 2 and a half to 3.9 unit range. That development constructed 165 detached single family homes on 43 acres for a density of 3.8 per acre. And then Summit Preserve located uh just north of 42 and east of this development was done by LAR. That was a medium density only guidance. Um so in that 4 to 7.9 range that development built 193 units on 39 acres. Uh that development included 71 single family detached and 122 town homes. So the density of the summit preserve is a bit higher at 4.95 units per acre. So Marlo Ridge is proposed overall at 3.75. Um includes both low density and medium density again 260 units on 70 acres. The Suriri lane, we've covered this a bit earlier, but the Suriri lane low density area is proposed at 2.6 64 and the medium density is at 4.7. Parks. I'll have Nick take over the next few here. Thanks, Casey. Uh commissioners, um I'm dive into parks here. Marlo Ridge is proposing uh just over an acre private park on Outlot C. Um we've seen this before. They have a similar space in Trillium Cove. It's just a gathering space. I think PY might get into that a little bit more in their presentation what that looks like. Um, but the city is not seeking additional parkland in this area. Um, we have existing parks that do do serve this area and I'll dive into that a little bit more. Um, this is in part based on a failure of a park referendum, uh, lack of funding to develop and maintain parks, and then just recommendations from our park and trail system plan. So, following the park referendum vote, which was rejected by the voters in uh 2025, the city shifted our focus to identifying opportunities to enhance existing parks. We also surveyed um residents as part of the referendum process and they value very much their neighborhood parks more so than um our destination parks like Lakefront and um Ponds and Ryan Park. Um so unless an existing park is not available to service a specific area, our park and trail system plan um in most instances prior lake far exceeds the national recreation standards for types, amounts and distribution of parks and amenities across our park system. So the National Recreation and Parks Association or NRPA, these are their recommendations. So, one park per 1,800 just under 1,900 residents. So, in comparison, Prior Lake has 51 parks, which is one park per 541 residents. Um, 9.6 acres of parkland per thousand residents. Prior Lake has approximately 30 acres of total parkland and 20 acres of developed parkland per 10,8 residents. um one playground per 3600 residents. Fire Lake has one playground per 673 residents. Um you see the trend. Um so we thought we'd compare to our neighbor neighboring cities just to put it into perspective a little bit more. Um Prior Lake population uh 27,600. We have 51 parks. That's 12% of land dedicated to park purposes. Savage who is at 33,000 residents has 23 parks 8% of the land dedicated to park purposes and then Shaki at 43,000 almost 44,000 um has 40 parks with 5% of the land within the city dedicated to park purposes. So our park and trail system plan also identifies we want to ensure that we have one highquality neighborhood park is available within a half mile radius of each neighborhood service area having 300 or more children. That's one of our objectives outlined in outlined in there. Um the subject property has two high quality parks um within half a mile. You'll if you look at the figure, we have Knob Hill Park and Carriage Hills Park. Um both parks have similar amenities, but uh Knobill is a bit larger. Um it it has wetlands and some wooded areas in addition there, but they both include picnic shelter, trails, half basketball court, open space, diving from parks to traffic. Um we during the public hearing we received comments about traffic the existing roadways to support development. Um just running into that running down the list a little bit. Carills Parkway is what we call a major collector. Um today it carries 1,800 trips per day. A major collector at full capacity we expect to be somewhere between 6,000 and 9,000 trips a day. So, we are very much under capacity. Um, and will it ever get to 6,000 to 9,000 trips? It might not. That's very that's not uncommon. Um, the traffic study completed uh for the proposed residential development and the anticipated future um commercial industrial development on outlot A. It provides trip generation estimates for both the AM and PM peak hours for the proposed residential development. Uh utilizing the IT trip generation manual. That is the engineering standard across the board of how we generate trips per use. Um the results indicate uh the residential development is expected to result in approximately 388 a.m. peak hour trips and 363 PM peak hour trips and a total of 33 3,331 net new daily trips. That's the residential development once it's fully built out. And again, these aren't all going to go to one spot. They're not all going to Carriage Hills. We're putting in Fountain Hills that'll have two access points to the development. You have two two access points along Carriage Hills as well. So that gets distributed among four um access points. Uh, as part of the traffic study, they looked at the five-year crash history at intersections in the project um and found zero crashes at the intersection of 21 and Carriage Hills. Um, the traffic study also rated level of service um to evaluate different traffic intersections. So, what level of service is, it's a rating system from A to F. Think of about it as a class in school. A is excellent. F is failing. A D can probably get you through sometimes. So in some instances, a D is acceptable. Um >> A D >> I did say D. >> Get you through. >> Yep. Occasionally. >> Wow. Okay. >> Uh the traffic study included operational analysis of the intersections in the future based on certain development scenarios. in 2037. Um based on the proposed residential development only, Carriage Hills and 21 intersection will function at a level of service A and B um during the AM peak hours and a level of service A and C during the PM peak hours. Um, it does note when assuming the full buildout of the commercial area north of Fountain Hills, the Carriage Hills 21 intersection will function at a AC level during the AM hours and AE during the peak hours, during the PM peak hours. Uh, the study also analyzed future volume scenarios to anticipate when intersection improvements would be required based on traffic warrants. Warrants are primarily the volume of traffic on all legs of the intersection. So, for instance, if we're talking about 21 and Fountain Hills, 21 is pretty set right now. If we add another leg to um Fountain Hills, so it's a four-legged intersection, you look at that cross traffic and once it hits a certain number and functionality, that's a warrant and it'll drive the need for something to be done there. Um so the study does note um the business park development will be the primary contributor to needing something to be done at 21 and Fountain Hills. So under the 2030 and the 37 build scenarios which assume the business office park area is developed traffic warrants are anticipated to be met which would justify intersection improvements at 21 and Fountain Hills. Um until that is fully built out um it recommends maintaining the existing through and then stop traffic control. Um and then as part of that to be sensitive of the future of that intersection um escrow funds will be required of the developer to be contributed um towards a future intersection project there. Uh we also heard about speed. Um concerns about speed on carriage hills. Um the assumption is more development equals more speeding vehicles. That's not true necessarily. One thing that's unique about Carriage Hills is one it's one it's a divided roadway. Um also one side of it is entirely farmland with no intersections whatsoever. So when people don't have an intersection to look out for or something that has cars or houses on one side, the speed tends to creep up. So Carriage is what we call a state aid road. We designate it as a state aid um collector road which makes us eligible for funding. Um as part of that we have to count it every three years to maintain that status. So as part of that when we count it we um also do a speed study. Um so we did do a speed study on Carriage Hills Parkway in May of 25. Um, it's conducted over 48 hours and they are our traffic counters aren't the feedback signs that is a trailer sitting out there telling me how fast I'm going. They are the size of an iPad. They have a black cover on them and we nail them down to the pavement. So, if you're not looking for them, you're not going to see them. And they they'll count the speed and then also the volume. So eastbound uh on Carriage Hills had 1,900 vehicles passed through it. The peak volume was between 4:30 4:45 p.m. which makes sense of 43 vehicles. The average uh daily traffic was 976 vehicles. Um the posted speed is 35 miles an hour. average speed was 37 miles an hour and the 85th percentile speed was just under 42 miles per hour. So the 85th percentile speed 85% of the cars of those 976 cars are under 42 miles an hour. Everyone else has their foot on the gas. Um westbound. So westbound, similar to what I mentioned before, no intersections. You're going along a farm field. So um similarly similar uh volume of vehicles passing through it 1900 um peak volume was 32 between 8:45 and 9:00 a.m. I believe that could be attributed to schools I think that's a late start school which is around 9:20 9:30. So buses going through parents dropping off that does make sense. Um, annual daily traffic just under a thousand. The posted speed limit is 35. As I mentioned earlier, average speed was 38 miles an hour. So, it ticked up one. And then same with the 85th percentile speed. It ticked up another um 1.5 miles an hour. Um, again, we attribute that to you're just cruising down. You have no intersections to look for. There's no crosswalks there until you're at an intersection. So, the speeds get away a little bit. >> Thank you, Nick. Um, the the last slide we wanted to touch on is the school district impact. So, we didn't get a comment on that during the public hearing, but I had a couple people reach out directly and ask, you know, what has the city looked into the impact of this into the schools? And I thought it was a great question because school district is very much top of mind in this community. Um, so we we did reach out to the school and talk to their district staff, but also just so the community is aware, we meet with the school district every year. We talk about developments that are in our planning stages, which ones might be in the pipeline, where we see growth happen, um, what were our, you know, average housing starts over the last 10 years, are we seeing town homes, are we seeing apartments, are we seeing residential? So, we do that every year anyway. uh but because it was brought up um we wanted to reach out and get some some additional information. So much like the the city, the school district uh has their pulse on, you know, our housing data, Savage's housing data, you know, all everywhere within their district. They're looking at forecasts. They're looking at demographic trends. So, you know, aging population, uh lower birth rates per household, those types of things to do projections for their planning purposes. So, one item with this Verling family development, this development was in their projections. It was anticipated to come and they're still projecting a decreasing enrollment. So, they've experienced a decreasing enrollment over the past well four years on this chart and they're projecting a decreasing enrollment in the future. So the the school district comments back to the city were yes we did anticipate the deverling family property being developed and that is in our projections. The comments were residential growth can help stabilize enrollment and provide per pupil funding that they need to support staffing and programs. Um, and then also that Jeffers Pond Elementary has would be the the elementary school to serve this neighborhood and they do have capacity across grade levels to accommodate any projected enrollment from this development. And with that, planning commission, that concludes our staff report. Staff is recommending approval of the five requests. Um, the applicant is in attendance with some of their development team and engineers. if you have questions for them. I believe they have a a brief presentation they wanted to run through as well, but we'd be happy to take any questions. >> Thank you, Casey and Nick. Excellent report. Thank you for capturing all of the questions uh that we filled it uh previous to this meeting and providing just a really great summary for us to think about and synthesize. Um before we open before we hear from the uh applicant I we do have I think we we may have some questions for for you and I'm going to start. Um so my first question um for staff would be what types of entities are being considered for the business site? I apologize. Let me just open that one. was a gas station. I have it right here. Um, a gas station, convenience store, a drive-in bank, uh, daycare, fast food restaurant with a drive-thru, um, and general office and light industrial uses. >> Okay, great. >> Just to piggyback on that and confirm for the the audience and folks at home, those commercial developments are not being proposed. They were just used for the purpose of a traffic study to forecast future needs. >> Yeah. I'm just trying to get a just an overall sense of what the concept might be or could be, you know, post completion of of uh this particular outlot. Um the land use amendments. I know the city council will recommend that the city council take a look at this at some point. Does the Met Council will they also re have any role in reviewing this? >> Uh yes, Commissioner. The land use plan amendments are it's it's a multi-step. So I'll go to the right screen here. So when we get an application for a land use plan amendment, we are required by the Met Council unless they grant us a waiver, which they did not in this case. Um we have a list on our community page. There's 16 adjacent and affected jurisdions. So, it's all of the communities that surround us, the townships, and then organizations like the wershed districts and the DNR and the SMSC. And so, we provide uh written notification to them of the proposed amendment. They get 60 days to comment back if they have any comments on our land use plan amendment. In this case, we did get seven responses back. All of them were no comment responses. Um, if the city council approves of this change, then we would send the resolution and this uh records of these public hearings and everything to the metropolitan council. They review our proposed changes in relation to our approved comprehensive plan to see if there's any impacts on the utilities in the area, streets, infrastructure, trails, sidewalks, parks, wetlands, things like that. Um, a development of this size would require smaller land use plan amendments can be administratively approved by staff at the Met Council. A development of this size would require full board consideration and approval. >> Great. Thanks, Case. I wanted to get that on the record just so um our residents understand that um there's a a whole cadence and tier of approvals and we're not just approving things willy-nilly. So, thank you for that. Um, just a couple more. So the 7.5 foot side setback are there any um adverse implications by maintaining would there be any adverse implications by maintaining the 10-foot side setbacks? And I'm going to pose that question to the applicant as well. >> Um yeah, maybe the the applicant would have uh some feeling on the 10. I know the seven and a half is is somewhat in line with what we've seen in our recent subdivisions. Some of the other ones referenced earlier as comparisons had seven and a half. Some even had four and a half foot sideyard setbacks, which once you get below five, it can be a little tricky to to get in out of the backyard and get grass to grow if that's what you desire, but maybe the applicant would have a feeling other than loss of I'm sure there would be a loss of some units. >> Okay, great. And this one will also be um a double play as well for staff and the applicant. But just generally, why do you think or what's staff's thoughts about why um we believe that future residents and developers want to live in Prior Lake and or build in Prior Lake? What are your what are your thoughts about that? Uh my just from being here for 15 years, it is a wellrespected school district. It is the lake of course. It's the parks and the natural spaces around the community. Um safe community and I think Prior Lake is a very desirable place for people to raise a family. >> Great. Those are all my questions. Uh, Commissioner Nicholson, >> question for staff. Um, and I am still getting comfortable with how we evaluate PUDS. Um, so I want to make sure I understand the trade-off in thinking about the selling point of the pub. It pud is the offsetting public benefits. Correct. And I just wanted if to know if you could opine on which of those stated benefits would otherwise not be required under just a standard conventional subdivision. I mean what are we getting above and beyond just a standard residential construction project? >> Uh thank you for the question commissioner. So in this case, the the developer working with the watershed district to improve the quality of the large wetland on the site would not be a requirement of a standard traditional subdivision. Um we would have sidewalks and trails along the collector streets that are being proposed, but we would not require those along uh the local streets. um the developer constructing. So uh the street width at a 32 foot local street and a 44 foot collector uh for Fountain Hills, I'm sorry, for Suriri at 36. Those would be discussion points. I'm sure we would get some push back potentially on maybe wanting to do a 28 foot street instead of a 32. Um, and then the additional right ofway contributions to County Road 21. So, the county can request or require a specific right-of-way with, but they only can go to a certain point and then they would have to acquire right away. Um, I don't know the actual numbers off. >> The the city would be on the hook for 50% of that cost anytime they have to acquire the rightway within city limits. So if yeah, they're they're granting more right of way than they would be required to. So that is saving the county and the the city cost in that acquisition. >> Thank you. Um the other was a comment in thinking about the the traffic and the the speeding issues that were noted. Um should any safety measures be considered as part of the approval or part of the future final plat review? So, in thinking about um any traffic calming measures or any signage be required as part of the approval, I don't think so at this time. Um I think we will continue to watch it as it gets built out and see and monitor the traffic patterns. We do have a traffic safety committee that um does review these things and we meet about quarterly I would say. So, it could be as simple as just getting sections of the road on PD's list to bring out that speed feedback trailer. Um, or it could be um just sending out letters, educating folks, hey, slow down. Um, and then additional enforcement is of course is kind of the last resort we don't want to do, but understand it is necessary. >> No further questions. Thank you, Commissioner Nicholson. Commissioner Smokl. >> Hey, I'm going to uh look into the storm order management questions here a little bit. And first off, I think the level of detail and commentary that you had in the city memo was astounding. That was really great. That was very, very helpful. Probably didn't have enough time to look through, but it gave me a great deal of confidence that you guys are really on it. So, I'm going to ask a question kind of from a fellow resident. Um, what is that basin going to look like? Will it look natural or are we going to see something kind of contrived and artificial? >> So the the larger wetland that the watershed district is proposing to improve along with PY um will be more natural. Um they want to raise the water level which will give it more of a standing water more lake feel if you will um but it will be a natural look not manicured if you will. Where are they proposing trees around it to make it a little more woodlandly or will we see kind of like rain garden ditches viewed? Is that that that view there where I see that secondary water that little finger kind of suggests that to me >> between the two blue areas if you will. >> Um I will probably defer that to PY. They have a better idea on what's going there. Um, but it'll be some sort of vegetated buffer, which is usually taller grasses. Sometimes it's wild flowers. >> Okay. Um, and then its use as a filtration basin. That's interesting. I'm glad to hear it's going to be deep and get that standing water look. Um, how how would you rate the complexity of the design? Like on a scale of one to five, one being, hey, this is pretty straightforward versus gnarly. We're dealing with a lot of entities and a lot of challenging engineering complexities. Great question. Um, >> and maybe you don't know at this point. >> I I would say filtration basins are basically the engineering standard these days um to avoid having to put in infiltration because soils unless you're in sand, it's not going to work. Um, so I' I'd probably just give it a middle line three. >> Okay. Okay. Um, let's see. I'm going to talk about traffic now. I don't think I've got through that. Um, I want to tell everybody here, we do listen to you. At the last hearing, I heard people talk about how busy it is and I would bike through carriage hills periodically myself. So, I I can hear you. So, ever since that hearing, I took it upon myself to always go down that route and I've probably been on it more than fingers I have. Um, I saw the the traffic and I wondered again, Nick, I asked you whether it uh dissuades people. It makes them go slower. I did still see people going fast, but I think the thing that really I wanted to pass on to staff is I was astounded by how much pedestrian traffic was out there on any given day. Three clusters was the minimum. Four to six was about average for that range from Sanpoint to 21. So I can see how the people would feel that perceptually there are a lot of people out there feeling that. And I also kind of feel when I see the 85 percentile that that means 15% more cars are going 10 more than 10 miles over the speed limit, you know, more than 45 miles an hour. That feels kind of scary when I can combine that with what the pedestrian traffic I observed. So, um I guess I still have a little and I know it's not unique to other areas in our town, but I still hear you and I kind of felt that too about the traffic. So, I I was really digging into the the traffic studies a little bit more and wondering as we look at more traffic um studies more as it builds out, what are we going to do with and we find more issues. And I guess that's more of an observation, but really saying I've heard these guys and I think they've got a lot there's there's something there. Um and then I guess and this is a detail maybe it's more for Aliant the study manager. So, I'm not necessarily asking for a answer for you guys because it was deep in the weeds, but some of the traffic flow numbers seemed a little illogical. Like there was an imbalance of cars going in and out. Um, I guess if I had to point to like one area that it was indicative, when I look at Carriage Hills going into and out of 21, it seemed like there was a whole lot as the years progressed going northbound out, but then the same number wasn't coming in and I couldn't see where they would be coming in other areas. And that was more of a curiosity point like what is this traffic telling us about how it's going to progress? Um, and again, I'm not answer I don't think I have expect an answer at this point because that's really deep in the weeds. >> Yeah, that would be a good question for the applicant if they're available. >> Um, that's all I have for now. >> Thank you, Commissioner Schmoko. Commissioner Yo, >> yes, a couple questions. Um, thank you for the diving deeper into the safety, um, the pedestrian, um, pieces as well as, uh, the park and the traffic. Um, I'd like to bring all those together. And so I would like to know knowing what we know about the speed, the amount of pedestrians we see, where the parks are located, what will be done for this new development north of Carriage Hills Parkway and the residents there to safely cross Carriage Hills Parkway and access the park. Do you want to jump out to the other park with the two parks? There we go. Perfect. Um, yeah. So, with the new development, the only crossing at Carriage Hills would be to get to Carriage Hills Park. Um, again, there's there will be two new intersections there. So we typically put crosswalks at our intersections um and verify sight lines make sense and sign it appropriately. So that will be done at the main entrance on I believe it's Siri is the north south and then to get to Knobill Park again that's on the same side so that helps but you do have to cross Pike Lake Trail which is a bizier road as well. Mhm. >> So, crosswalk pedestrian crossings and assigning them appropriately. >> I just I feel like um the carriage hills is the one that is the most concerning to me because it's the closest to where the development is. I feel like that's going to see more traffic foot traffic from residents of the new development. And um with that being such a broad road with a boulevard in the middle, I think we need more than a crosswalk. I think there needs to be some kind of a signal of some kind to alert vehicles that pedestrians are crossing what is a broader roadway with trees in a boulevard and everything that can provide some sighteline issues. >> Um that is certainly a possibility. We tend to not put those in until we have the data to support them. We treat it no different than an intersection. We would need look for a certain number of pedestrians per hour. where we have to do pedestrian counts in those instances. But I certainly understand >> um the comment and we do want to make sure the sight lines are there. One benefit to having a boulevard >> in the middle of the road is that is a place of refuge. Yeah. >> For it. So it does shorten the actual distance of crossing each leg of carriage hills. Um so that is a benefit that we have there existing today. But absolutely we will keep monitoring that if there are significant pedestrian crossings we would look to do something else whether it's a blinking sign whether it's a push button >> style >> we would look for the data to tell us that we need to do that >> okay concerns as well with just it being east west oriented and sunrise sunset those are peak hours of pedestrian activity and also can't site right? >> Um being able to see. So that's where another my concern is as well with it being such a broad road and seeing the speed of the vehicles as well. Um the let me go to I'm going to move here into um wetlands um since my colleague brought up some great points there. Um well that wetland there's a great wetland just on the um west side of uh 21 um in Jeffers uh which is a low water level but has the you know surface water I'll say appearance um and a lot of natural um perimeter is would this be proposed to be somewhat similar to the one on the west side behind the enclave homes the the lake, the the bigger one. >> Um not that big. >> Smaller branches off of that big one, but >> Yep. But similar buffers, wet buffers that would be >> um similar adjacent to those Enclave homes. >> Okay. >> And natural more natural. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> I'm going to go to the setback reduction that's being requested. Um, with the setback reductions, the 20 ft sideyard abuing a street, seeing the layout of the planned unit development, is there any concerns with traffic sight lines for those um abuing street sideyards? >> Uh, commissioner, no concerns with with sight lines. The homes will be set back sufficient from the intersections, >> so there shouldn't be any issues there. Okay. And then um also with the setbacks, there's quite a bit of developments in this whole area. So what are the setbacks um in the um uh the development of Carriage Hills and Raspberry Ridge? >> Um that development was I think mid 90s development. So I would assume the setbacks are 25 feet in the front and 10 on the sides. >> Okay. How about um over on the west side of um 21 there's uh those are all single family homes. I don't think there's anything but single family in Carrier Hills and Raspberry Ridge. But on the um uh west side of 21, there's quite a bit. There's a whole development of twin homes off of Jeff Pass, off of Raspberry Ridge Road. Um there's twin homes, there's town homes. Um what are the setbacks >> um >> throughout those developments? They're they're probably different in every one of the developments, but I in recent years the recent developments in there would all most of them would have probably received a reduced setback as well. Okay. >> Because I believe most of those were planned unit development approvals. >> So I'm guessing probably in this similar 7 and a half foot range. >> Wild Horse Pass is another one that stands out for me that kind of bridges between Jeffers and the Wilds there. >> Yeah, I I >> Okay, >> we do have so many of these there and they're all different. There's not a standard the sideyard setback. So, I wouldn't be able to answer that. >> When I try to zoom out and I envision this one overlaid in the open land and I look at the density of these other developments, it doesn't seem to stand out as something that would catch my eye and say this is something really unique and very very different from what already is contextually been developed on this kind of entire corridor of County Road 21 feeding east and west. >> I agree. Yeah. Okay. at 7 and a half foot setbacks, even if they're built to the maximum setback, there's still going to be 15 feet between >> Yeah. >> between units. >> Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions. >> Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Tenderson, >> thank you. Uh just two questions. The on the land use amendments, uh the sidebyside visual where you can you pull that up? So the business office park reduction um the majority of it like you said is the 13 acres of wetland. How much are we giving up for the houses in terms of acreage for the business park or for you know giving up on the business park? >> Uh roughly 10 acres commission >> 10. Okay. And then can you remind me what is neighborhood commercial? Uh neighborhood commercial would be um similar to the southwest corner of the 20, excuse me, highway 13 and 42 intersection. Okay. >> Or of office type. Not you wouldn't probably see a drive-thru restaurant, but you would have dental offices and >> Sure. >> realtors and insurance and things like that. >> Gotcha. Okay. And then you said something I I didn't catch it about the the front setback. What did you say about the front setback again? So the the applicant is requesting a a reduction in the required front yard setback from 25 feet to 20 feet. Um and but also they're they're providing a 60 foot rightway instead of a 50 foot rightway. So the feel from the front of the house to the curb is going to be very similar whether it was 25 foot set back to a 50 foot rightway or a 20 foot to a 60 foot rightway. >> Thank you for repeating it. It's all ahead. >> Thank you Commissioner. Commissioner Ftomucker's a similar question with the neighborhood commercial. If you go one more slide, maybe a couple go back. I don't know which direction. There you go. Uh you have the neighborhood commercial. Can you explain the difference between the current zoning map versus what the land use plan? Why there's a difference there? >> That's a good question because there there shouldn't be a major difference. So, when this was the zoning map that was in place when the last comprehensive plan was adopted and the land uses were changed, um at times we'll work with the property owner and they can request a zoning amendment. We don't normally do it on our own as staff to just change someone's zoning without without their their request. Um so, the land use plan is what ultimately guides the development and the zoning is what exists today. So, we can't even though this says C1 neighborhood commercial on our zoning map, we can't develop that as C1 neighborhood commercial because it doesn't conform with our comprehensive land use plan. So, one of the two or both would require an amendment before before development can happen. We generally wait for a development to be proposed before we would make those amendments. So essentially when the last land use plan was adopted that was removed for the business park portion or some other variant. >> Yes. And and this may have it there was quite a while ago but I know at one point they did a kind of a county road 42 and 21 corridor study in this area to to do some future land use planning and potentially marketing of some properties. So, I'm guessing as an outcome of that study, the zoning map was maybe changed. Um, but I don't know for certain. >> And with your analysis of the parks, um, one question I had that popped up was when you're looking at how many parks we have and what how much land was dedicated for parks and whatnot, did that include only city-owned parks? We have other parks or other um open land that's kind of kind of like a park in in town as well. Does that include those? >> Uh only city-owned parks. >> So we have essentially more than that even. >> Yes. And out >> correct and regional parks. >> Obviously they're not necessarily adjacent to this development but the the number in the total community is much even more than that. >> Correct. I count all those. Thank you. Um for the traffic, just to be clear, these the analysis is all based on models, right? That's the best case you can really do. You can't really analyze really on anything else other than data on models. So, which explains the the whether or not um traffic counts are going up, the density wise, it's not really playing into it. speed is an issue with the data you're looking at. Um sight lines, does that play into this when it comes to safety concerns? It does. Um so as part of going through final plat um we will look at the sight lines of every intersection versus um vertical curves and horizontal curves to make sure they meet standards for the speed of the road >> and along 21 as well. >> Along 21 as well. >> Okay. I know my personally as I come up to 21 from Carriage Hills going west it's hard to see to the right >> yes >> to the north and that's the probably the hardest part of that in my my own opinion but so that'll likely be improved or analyzed if it needs to be improved so >> correct it'll be >> thank you and my other comment was kind of answered with the crosswalks you will be adding crosswalks at those new intersections to cross carriage hills sole people can cross to the park. So, correct. >> Thank you. That's it. >> Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Rook, uh, thank you again for the diligence and the detail obviously on this as you're preparing this. Can you go to slide 11 for me, please, Casey? the the delta of the total change still has this falling in what we would consider on average about an LDR even even though the blended average between the two still has this falling in about an LDR. Is that an accurate statement? >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. And then sorry to make you jump around slide 32. I just want to make sure I'm hearing the peak hours for traffic that grading last bullet point um in the PM peak hours an A through E. Can we just can I understand that a little bit more please? Yes. So that the AE designation is um different legs of the intersection >> if I will be the north south and the east west. So one of them is performing extremely well at the A. The other is slipping down to that E level and almost failing. >> Does that help make sense? And that's their intervals of time. So an A is like sitting at the intersection for I think it's like 0 to nine seconds and uh F is almost two minutes before you can move >> and that grading is after the assumption of a full buildout. >> A full buildout residential and commercial. Correct. >> Great. Thank you. That's >> great. Any lingering thoughts or comments, commissioners? Great great thoughts, great questions. Anyone? All right. Would the applicant like to approach, please? And you've heard some of our comments. You've heard the staff report. So, we'd be interested in your thoughts and responses to some of that commentary. >> Thank you. Um, thank you for the time tonight. My name is Paul Hoyer with PY Homes, 1650 82nd Street West, Sweet 300, Bloomington, Minnesota 44 311. Um, I've got a short presentation tonight. I took a guess at what Casey would cover with his presentation and I tried to cover um things that maybe he wouldn't cover so that you'd get a full breath of things. So, I'm going to try to give a short presentation and interweave some answers to some of the questions I heard here tonight. We're going to have a short introduction of our company, talk a bit about our vision for the property, um talk a bit about the home since we really didn't submit much information about them in our application, and finally leave you with a quick summary. Who's PY Group? We build about 600 homes a year. Um our office is in Bloomington and recently we have built homes in your city. these blue outline neighborhoods called Trillium Cove Cove and Lockwood to the east. We build in the Twin Cities under two name brands. One is PY Homes and you might have heard of Dell Web as well. We're known for our popular floor plans, having integrity, being easy to work with, and our strict and detailed construction process. Our vision for the site really it it summarizes this simply for us. We wanted to prepare the 27 acre business office park land north of Fountain Hills Drive for development. We knew that was a strong priority for the city. Um the the demand for that it just kind of disappeared as mortgage rates and interest rates went up over the last couple years, but there's still definitely demand in the future for there. So, one of our goals was really to just set that up for easy development in the future. We're also uh developing what the market can support right now, which is really all the residential land. We're providing badne needed housing. We see this in a lot of cities where we just can't provide enough housing for what people are looking for. And finally, um well, two more things. Improve Pike Lake water quality and PY completes infrastructure in this area. So, this is kind of an infill development really. everything around it is developed. So, it's kind of filling in the final pieces. I've got one slide here about Pike Lake improved water quality and another one about the infrastructure just to give you a little bit more information. Um, as Casey said, Pike Lake downstream is uh very poor water quality. A large reason for that is this this property uh for hundred and some years we've seen a lot of nutrients that have just accumulated in this wetland and they get washed downstream into Pike Lake. So um kind of feeding into the question about what will it look like? Um the wershed district asked us to raise the water level to about three feet deep. And the hope in doing that is to really um maintain the nutrients on the floor of the wetland and have the water kind of uh drain out without taking the nutrients with it. So that's uh that's a layman's term way to look at it. Uh it also tells you it probably will look a little better too. So it's really a win-win there. Completing the infrastructure systems. Everything shown in red here are major streets that kind of finish out the infrastructure and the street system in this area. You see a blue line there. We also have actually a water man going from Carriage Hills Drive up to Fountain Hills uh lane as well. So really it strengthens both the water system and the street system for this area. And finally the homes uh life cycle housing is one of the primary goals that you have in your in your comp plan. Um, what that means is really providing housing for every stage of people's lives. And we're really doing that within this neighborhood. The town homes are really targeting firsttime home buyers, which are oftentimes singles, couples, occasionally a small child, single family homes for young families, larger single family homes for what we call move up buyers, and finally in bold here, the single level homes 55 and older for singles and couples. That is really a a strong demand throughout the Twin Cities area. A lot of people are looking at that age, 55 and older for single level homes and homes that are really designed for that stage of life. A little bit more about the town homes. We have three different floor plans. Square footage is shown there and the price points that we expect are averaging about 410,000. the single family homes that are on the 65- ft lots, five different floor plans, pretty sizable homes, and the average selling price we expect is 675,000. And the larger lots for single family, five different floor plans. These are quite large homes. We would call them luxury homes. And the average selling price would be 825,000. And finally, the twin homes, which I don't have a lot of pretty pictures because we haven't built these twin homes yet in the Twin Cities, but we've built many of these same floor plans as uh single homes in our Dell web communities. Um, some some of you might have heard of Dell Webb in the past. Um, anything that has Sun City in front of it or Anthem across the country, you know, those are very famous uh iconic uh Dell Webb communities. Typically, a Dell web community is quite large, has a lot of amenities, but the homes are designed specifically again for the 55 and older. A lot of a lot of these buyers are really looking for a different lifestyle. Um, they've had the large yard and they might have enjoyed taking care of it for a time, but they're really looking for a homeowners association that will take care of the the snow removal right up to their front door, uh, to take care of the lawn, those sorts of things. And it's really a lowmaintenance lifestyle that they're looking for. A little bit more about those twin homes. The homes themselves are also designed specifically for the 55 and older folks. There's additional light, uh, zero entry showers, wider doorways to make it easier for walkers and wheelchairs to get through them. They're fairly small homes, 1600 feet, because again, there's only one or two people living in these homes instead of a family of, you know, five people. And typically the average price here is about $500,000 for those homes. And finally, a onelide summary here. Uh the benefits of this application, it really matches the city's vision for this area. Um it provides badly needed life cycle housing in this area. It completes infrastructure systems in this area and it really sets up the business park for future development. And finally, uh, Pike Lake U water quality improvement was, uh, we we kind of lucked into that one. When the the watershed district approached us, but again, it was just such an easy win-win that, uh, it's going to work well. And that's all I have, but I don't think I answered all your questions. One of the questions I meant to address was the chair's uh, side setbacks. Um, throughout the Twin Cities, the average sight setback for um, detached homes is typically 7 and 1/2 ft on on both sides. Um, typically for our twin homes actually it's it's more like five feet. So, anything that's aimed at empty nesters and they have homeowners association maintain yards typically that person is liking to minimize their cost in their maintenance. So, those are typically five and five side setbacks and single family homes are typically seven and a half and seven and a half. Um, another question was um why do people want to live in Prior Lake? Um, great question. Great school district. Um, there's a great reputation. The lake is a draw for people. There's no question about that. Um, in this particular case, a great location in terms of access to 169 and jobs. So, um, really a a great location from that standpoint as well. So, a lot of good reasons. Um, there was another question about ponds and their appearance and complete tree plantings and things like that. Um there are regulations that prevent us really from planting a lot of trees in the area we talked about between the pond and the wetland. That is a maintenance bench where uh the city trucks can drive around it and and do things in the future like um you know dredge out the pond in in in 30 years or whenever that occurs. So there are there are um restraints in terms of what we can do. Um the ponds will look very similar to what you see in in other neighborhoods. The wetland over time um will look rather nice. Uh typically on the edges we'll see some cattails. It won't be a mode or rip wrap rock, you know, along the edges like a golf course. It will look very natural. And that's all I have unless you have any more questions for me. >> Thank you. Thank you for addressing those questions. I don't have any, but I want to give my fellow commissioners an opportunity to uh offer thoughts or questions. Commissioner Rook, when do you expect you'd have um residents moving into homes? >> Let me do the math here. uh somewhere between April and June of 2027. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, >> Commissioner Fenmucker. >> I don't believe we touched on it in the opening, but I think I heard it on the previous public hearing, but the intention with this would be to develop from the south and move to the north and you're accessing from Fountain Hills. So your impact to the to the south is minimized. Is that fair to be? >> Yeah, we're always trying to um thread the needle and make everybody happy. Um we can't do that if we fail often times, especially with neighbors. Um we know that it's a priority for the city to have Fountain Hills Lane extended through to 21 uh and to build the north south collector street. So we heard that message loud and cleared and it took us a long time to figure out how to do that but um we managed to do that. So that is why we included both of those streets in our application and in our our finances. Um but still starting from the south is really best for us. So um we envision that our first development agreement with the city will say as part of this agreement we are going to have to build those two roads. we don't have to do it in 2026 because there won't be time but nevertheless we're putting up shies to make sure that we do that work next year. >> Thank you. >> I do have a question. Um given what's happening in the the I'm going to say the local regional um national economy. I know you all are sort of following those benchmarks and fluctuations and volatility. Um, what do you anticipate in terms of just the integrity of of of the process and meeting the timeline? >> In our industry, there's great risk and um things change rather quickly. On the other hand, the process that I go through typically takes uh two years. In this case, we've been trying to buy this property for 11 years. So, um things change often during our our cycles. Having said that, there are two things kind of in conflict right now. For the last 40, 50 years, we've seen incomes increase at a lower rate than house prices have increased. So, that's a really bad trend, and it means that every year less and less people can afford the American dream. So, that's the negative. The positive is we're still able to find buyers and we're still able to sell homes. We wish we could sell more homes um to more people. Um but that is um that is the way things are. So our outlook right now is if things continue the way they are. Um we'll continue to sell homes. We've done pretty well in Prior Lake. Uh there's been a lot of great demand in Trillium Cove and Lockwood. Um but then again, if we go into a recession, yes, um things change for us and we have to adapt on the fly. Um that's that's about all I can say about that. >> Thank you, Commissioner Tennyson. So, this might sound a little redundant, but I'll just ask the question maybe a different way. Um, given all what you just said, like how many plan phases are there in terms of start to finish? >> Three to four. >> Okay. >> Based on sales. >> Sure. Thank you. >> Commissioner Euro, >> question for you regarding the um setback um uh reductions that are being requested. If you were to have to meet the setbacks, the rear 25 and the sideyards 10, um what would that impact be to the overall development? >> Yeah, this was a long conversation that we had with city staff both in planning and engineering. It's you've seen some of the graphics that Casey showed about how much elevation difference there is throughout the site. It's a challenging property to develop. So when we start um requiring more kind of flat space it it uh which is what more right away more setback really ends up being it becomes much harder to make this work. So um truth is when we were working on putting this property under contract to purchase um we were working off of your at at that time current standards 50-foot rightaway. Um we learned later when we came in that um in that time frame that we actually put the property under contract um your rules had changed. So this was a creative way to find uh a way to give the city what they want and still have it fit as we had expected. >> If you had to meet those requirements, I'm assuming there'd be less homes, less outlots. >> Yes, less homes. >> Do you have a number? >> I don't. So you don't there hasn't been a actual layout that meets the >> No. Okay. Thank you, >> Commissioner Smokco. >> Um I'm really glad you're working with the watershed district to help improve Pike Lakes. I think that partnering is a really great example and I really love to see that more of that happen. Um now, so as far as the appearance of the wetland, so I'm understanding you're saying there's not going to be like that rip wrap the masses of rocks, right? It's more about having a a gradation of vegetation that just naturally takes over like cattails. >> Yes. And it'll take some time. So right now the pipe that takes water out of the wetland is actually below the bottom of the wetland. >> Okay. >> So it or I should say higher than the wetland. So it's a a little strange right now and it dries up. Um once we have new pipes installed, it will raise the water level and it'll take some time for the vegetation to really start growing that's natural on the edges of the wetland. So it may take a season or two or three before it becomes kind of mature, but it'll take a little bit of time for those um plants to really um grab. >> Yeah. Just like Jeff did, too. >> Yes. >> Um and then so there's going to be a little bit of access pathway or road for maintenance. Um, whereabouts again on that is that >> between the wetland and the pond that kind of burm in between. >> Look at the burm issue. Okay. So, we could still possibly see that disguised a little bit, that kind of industrial look disguised as the the cattails and so forth kind of emerge. >> Yeah, I I would say the cattails won't get high enough to um be on top of that. So, you'll still see >> a bit. Yes. >> Okay. And then finally, somewhere in the details, I saw a note that there was going to be escrow funds from you um set aside for possible future infra uh intersection updates. So given all the talk of traffic and maybe the need to address things as we learn more. >> Um can you talk a little bit more about that? What does that mean? I guess you're safeguarding us in the future from having spending. >> Yeah, you know, again, we're trying to find a win-win here. We we understand the city's position. uh you've been collecting, you know, fees as other developments come in and someday a signal may be required at Fountain Lane Drive and um and 21. Um currently our our modeling shows with the assumptions we made about what will happen in the business office park, it will pass the threshold of needing a traffic signal. It's possible that a traffic signal is never needed there. So, we have to work through that. Um, how do I put this? So, we'd like to have something in our development agreement that commits us to paying our 25% share of of of that cost, but um our ability to get the money back if a signal is never needed based on lower traffic uh generated um uses in business office park. >> So, is that percentage of whatever the escrow is set aside, is that already decided between the city? Is that more of a cooperative agreement? How does that work? Yeah, we have to work through that when we get to the final plat, but but typically the standard in the industry is this is 25% because uh that's one leg out of four legs of the intersection. >> Okay. And would it only be for Fountain um Hills or would it also be for Carriage Hills if we see that there's a >> it would only be for Fountain Hills and 21. There are whispers that the county has um you I'm going to back up and say that counties and cities are very good at planning ahead for what ultimate transportation improvements are needed. the county knows exactly how much rightaway they need because uh they've done this for for decades and decades. So they recognize that at the intersection of 21 and Carriage Hills Drive um there may be a need for some kind of change or improvements at some point in time. They haven't talked about a signal. Um I'm not sure what their plan is. >> Okay. So it's really just a fountain house. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um I think that's it. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Commissioner Nicholson. No additional questions. >> Thank you. Anything else you want us to know? >> No, thanks. >> All right. Thank you so much. >> All right. At this at this time, um at which is 7:27 p.m. I'll entertain a motion in a second to open the public forum. Is there a motion? So moved. Is there a second? >> Second. >> All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I I Any opposed? Seeing none, the public hearing is now open. If you wish to address the commission, I'd ask that you approach the podium, press the red button, state your name and address for the record. Thank you so much. >> There's a green button here. Do you want me to push the green button? >> No. >> Okay. I heard red button. Okay. Evans >> Evans Shadic, 4841 Beach Street, Northeast, Pri Lake, Minnesota. I've got that a little memorized. And um so just a little east of what's been talked about. Um the town houses. My main concern the last time and I've done an email maybe with Casey. I I don't remember who did a really good response on density of housing. But so there's more town houses in this strip than there are town houses in Trillium. Maybe by a quantity of two. I just zoomed in on the map and counted, you know, Google satellite view. Um is it are they the same? So density of just that section because the thing is with overall density, you can play games and maybe have very low density to the uh to the east side to help offset. So that overall it sounds like great density. But my vision of the of Carriage Hills Parkway is it's going to be a gigantic uh Great Wall of China along that whole ro road. And if it was somewhere else, I'd be fine because I wouldn't see it. Okay, fine. Okay. So, what's the density of that section compared to how many acreage is that section and what's the acreage of the Trillium Cove and and the density between those two? >> Sir, we'll have you if if that's your only question, we'll respond. Otherwise, we'll take all of your questions and then respond at the end. >> Notes there and there and down there and down here. All of those are questions and you maybe want me to prioritize them. But that's the number one timed with that one would be I went to the street view after counting them and when the front the photo like uh I don't know if you'd call it a site plan was shown for the town houses. It was a twotory shown but if you pull up the py they're threetory. So, is it a twotory or a threetory? Back to the Great Wall of China kind of a view. You know, that is a big eyesore right on a major road right where there's a park right where people will be lounging and people have existing houses where they've been sitting there. They never knew what was going to show up. So, you know, that's they just took a risk. So, I'm happy to have real capitalism where people actually can build stuff and if you can sell it, great. But I want to make sure that it's not a total eyesore. So that's um how tall are the buildings because you showed something that is not representative of trillium. So I can't use trillium. Trillium has been used for multiple comparisons, but it's a threetory at trillium and a twotory for the drawing. I think trillium might be closer to the two of reality there. Um, ne Trillium Cove. We drove around there and I was wondering where do visitors park in this? Where do the visitors park there? Trillium Cove has no room in driveways to park. Yeah, I that's an overstatement, but I was thinking if you had a party here, where do you park? And there's driveway, driveway, driveway. You can't park on the street. Okay, maybe they'll park on Carriage Hills Parkway. Well, when the baseball games are going, okay, now you got a battle there. Okay, there's that. Now, we're still with some some now it's car density issues. I'd be happy to sit in an office and discuss some of these. I just want to make sure that things like this are asked before you we keep seeing the same drawing. I think that drawing is bad. I'd rather I'm sorry. I'm sorry to Verling who I'm I'm just glad if he can sell it and make money and move on. Great. I'd rather he'd be paid a little less and maybe you have a little lower density or whatever if that's what it took for a tradeoff. Um just so that we if if that's what it takes to resolve anything. I had talked last time about a roundabout and maybe that's just not needed at all. You know, because all the traffic pattern stuff you talked about. I do know that once the plat's done or once they get far enough along, you'll never add one because it means you're impinging into someone's yard. So, uh I I recently drove northbound on 21 and got to the bottom of the hill from 42. And if you turn left and go through the Midowakan property rather prairie land now that's a large those are large multiple roundabouts sometime just drive that anyway that is that is the they really develop wonderfully there um this is not a question I'm sorry but house yes incomes didn't go up as fast as house prices but interest rates has plummeted and offset it. No one ever talks about it. But property taxes, which I'm I voted against the referendum, and we've, you know, property taxes go up easily for me, $1,000 per year recently. And uh and and the property taxes are something that are the killer because interest rates have offset and and that so if you're locked in now, the problem is interest rates are going up. But that's that doesn't deal with this thing. It's just the the way people screw up perceptions here. Well, that was the number one. And I I'll leave it at that. You know, the thing about like how would the water level be raised? Um like Candy Cove, you know, this is a story from the 50s. I mean, I've been around since the 60s. I was coming out here in 601. I was a little young then, but Candy Cove, I was told by the people we were visiting, uh, it was water was draining out of the lake and it really was. We could play volleyball down at the shore way out. I mean, it's far and they dumped a lot of clay into Candy Cove and the water came up and then you have to put in the uh drainage uh up to uh Jeffers because of the one man-made screw up puts up another one or Yeah. tradeoffs. So there aren't magic bullets. So drain tiling I think was when when the word pipe is used is that farmer's drain tiling and um and because how would that be done? I wouldn't want clay or fabric or anything like that put in and made and is it truly just something as simple as we'll just the pipes. >> You have about a minute. >> I'll leave I'll leave it at that. There's too many and I can't read all my handwriting that fast. >> I would encourage you though to your remaining or lingering thoughts send a send a note to Casey and and the staff. >> I'll I'll go through that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, and I've had wonderful emails back. So, thank you. If you're the one who is I'll look at the who they're from. >> You're welcome. Thank you. Who else would like to approach the podium and trust the planning commission? Make sure the button is green. >> Button's green. Okay. Uh Lucy Berling, um Post Office Box 57, Savage, Minnesota. Um I looked on Facebook and see some comments and I'm kind of the first ones here. We were the Verings were the first ones here for a very long time. so I could um really look at what I was seeing. We often hear about preserving the small town character of our community, but the reality is that our area has changed over the years. When I was young, County Road 42 and 21 were a two-lane gravel road. The change is definitely cleared. The Berling family established this farm in 1864, and for generations, it's been a working dairy farm rooted in this community. The decision to sell this property is not made lightly after 17 62 years of family ownership and connection to this land. However, farming within the city limits has been more difficult. Rising land values have led to property taxes and changes in the water flow from the nearby development have caused flooding that damaged our pasture which reduced grazing for young heers and then that affected our operation. The land will continue to serve the community as it is developed into housing for people at different stages of life with a variety of needs and lifestyles. This land has meant a great deal to our family for generations and we trust in its next chapter we will continue to benefit the community of Prior Lake. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Just a simple question. I'm at 4372 Chestnut Lane Northeast. I'm in the neighborhood that will struggle with this but understand it. Um, one of my biggest worries is actually Pike Lake um, road in 42. There was a a apartment development that happened right across 42 that people are crossing. It's dangerous there. It's not the best intersection. Um, there is only a single lane both ways. So, even to turn right out of there, you can't. So, it's starting to back up. if they are proposing, you know, kind of this fountain hill to be the main inn, that's going to lead right up to that pike. Is there any plans or thoughts about potentially changing that to a light to have it safer? >> Uh, so just so I'm clear, the intersection of Pike Lake Trail and County Road 42. >> Yeah, it's not the best. >> Yeah. So there there are plans again they're developmentdriven. So when the other portion of the farm develops there that intersection will expand at that time but until then um they're working within the confines of what right away we do have. >> I see >> there. >> Okay. I worry about that. So >> just a quick question. Sandy, were you able to catch our last guest name? Thanks. >> Good evening, commissioners, staff. >> Um, a little bit of background. >> Is the green button? >> Is the green Is the green button on? >> The green is on. >> Okay, great. >> There we go. How's that? >> Or you can raise it. Raise it up a little bit. >> There you go. >> How's that? >> Okay, a little background. I live in the Trillium Cove community. I was one of the original residents and um I'll start by saying I love my community. I love Trillium Cove. Uh PY did a fantastic job I think laying it out, incorporating the park. Um the quality of the construction, um the construction superintendent, the salespeople, they were all fabulous. Um, I've now been there five years and I have been reluctantly the president, treasurer, and secretary of the HOA. It's not a highly soughtafter um group of positions. I can tell you that. Um, we I don't think I guess we have been fully staffed as a board, but not a lot of people want to want to get involved with it. But um I think in unless anybody objects, I think PUB and HOA are kind of synonymous. Um, PUDs have HOAs, correct? >> Um, as a city of Prairie Lake, we do not require the PUD to have an HOA unless there's common amenities that require common maintenance such as monument signs or private parks or things like that. If there is none of those uh private amenities, the city would not require an HOA. >> Okay. So, this the um Marlo Ridge would be an HOA. I'm not against HOAs, but I and I'm only asking just to make sure that I'm my comments are consistent with a similar development. >> Okay. So, I didn't hear an answer to that, but I think it is going to be an HOA. >> Yeah. I mean, we we try to avoid a back and forth with the applicant or staff. If you could direct your questions to the planning commission and then they can assemble them and and get all the answers out. >> You want me to speak to the commission? Okay. All right. So >> we'll we'll explore and examine that question. >> Okay. >> And get back to you. >> Okay. It'll become I guess obviously. Um so I made some notes here while I was sitting there and I brought some notes, but um I was surprised to hear them say that the first occupancy would be in April of 2027. Barely not even a year out. That's possible with crops planted and growing. >> You really I mean that's that's a lot. That lot's got to happen in that short amount of time with with city reviews and approvals and developers agreements and things like that. Correct. >> We'll note the question and at we can have Mr. Hoyer address that after you're done. Well, what I'd like to ask of the planning commission is what is the process, the visibility, and the timing for the development agreement that will govern the contract between the city of Prior Lake on behalf of residents and PY Homes? What is the what is that timing? Um what will be the visibility to this same group of people or this same audience potentially? Yeah, that that is a question for for staff. Casey, are you prepared for that one? >> Yeah, I can now or I can at the end of the comment. >> We'll address it at the at the end of your comments. >> Okay. Um the reason that I asked that is um the way it had worked with with Trillium Cove was the city and PY entered into a development agreement did a PUD and a development entered into a development agreement and um PY pro um proceeded to sell homes when we got let's say 80 to 90% of the people um occupying homes. The process requires that PY turn that community over to the homeowners and the homeowners then receive the governing documents, the financials and are authorized to create their own homeowners elected board of directors. So at that point the community is almost complete but the people that have moved there including the board members probably weren't involved in this process from this stage on. >> So your question presupposes the establishment of an HOA correct? Uh yes. And and my purpose for coming here was in hopes of finding out how to get our experience as a homeowners association in front of and into city staff so that the types of issues that we inherited don't happen to Marlo Rich. >> Yeah. I I I appreciate the question and the thoughtfulness and so we'll have to work out the me mechanics of that. Um and inherent in the question at least in my mind right now it's sort of chewing on all the permutations of this is I'm not sure what's inbounds and what's out of bounds in terms of and the the HOA voice guiding uh legal conformities. So that's what we're going to have we'll have to explore that. So, I'll give you an example and I've and I I should be um in the interest of full disclosure. I spent 15 years of my life as a director of real estate and development in North America for a very large manufacturing company. So, I've I've been down the Ros process of land acquisitions, planning, development, construction, closeouts, warranties, escros, all those types of things. Um and what we what I learned uh in inheriting the community and inheriting all the documents was that there wasn't enough thought and enough process about the end of the the road the last mile we'll call it. So when let's say 80 or 85% of the homes are occupied and the last ones are under construction, PY is moving on to their next project and a lot of loose ends are left and there isn't there wasn't despite my efforts to confirm that there was or hope that there was there wasn't a good process within the city or with PY to close out the project to audit whether or or not the two parties to the contract being the city and py both met their obligations of that contract. >> So just a point of order is about a minute and 30 seconds. I'm going to take about 15 seconds. So you'll still have a minute and >> I I get to reclaim my time like that. Senator >> Senator Welcome to the Hill. Um um but so my overall sense and uh um expectation and request for staff is that everything we talk about will be transparent. That's the way we roll. Right. >> Transparency isn't an issue with me. I don't believe I don't believe there's a transparency. >> Yeah. No, but I'm saying it's because it's important to us and me as chair of this body. I have every expectation and um you know confidence that staff will at the appropriate mile markers right so beginning of the project halfway through 3/4 of the way through you know information that is being requested or in terms of closing out the process the staff will do everything they they know to do within our legal parameters right as guided by the city attorney and perhaps you know other um authorities will make sure that we're communicating thoughtfully and and timely with um any any member of the community um and especially HOAs. So, I'm going to pause there and then let you finish and then Casey can address some of your points. Maybe I can simplify what I'm trying to accomplish here is um when we got when we inherited the community from PY and from the city essentially and said here you're now responsible for this. You have obligations to maintain common areas. You have you have obligations that the city and PY agreed you would take on as an HOA when you took over the community and that's fine. I don't I don't have a problem with that. But we learned that there were flaws in that and I'll give you an example. The developers agreement specifically called out landscape plans, numbers, pages, documents. Those plans were very specific in many, many ways. We saw a lot tonight about trees. The city goes to great lengths to measure trees, caliper trees, require the replacement of trees, etc. No one at the city or PY audited those landscape plans when the community was turned over before the community was turned over to us. That became my job and only because I had some experience in it. I do it and found many missing trees, many dead trees, um many denials of warranty that weren't in accordance with the landscape plans that called out the warranty requirements. I personally had to take on and file a legal action against PY because the city would not even meet with me. I had to appeal to a city council member to get the city manager to even take a meeting. So what I would what I would suggest is I would like to find get a commitment from city staff to sit down with me and take advantage of what we experienced in order to complete the project that other parties agreed to. >> I I think we'd be fine with that. the the the issue that I'm having right now, and I'm trying to be respectful of your remaining time. >> Um, is that a lot of this is is based on supposition. >> Legally, we we there is no HOA right now that I'm aware of. And so I I will encourage staff to connect with you and clarify the legal authorities and the timing that's involved because without an established legal authority to provide over appropriate oversight, this conversation is and and I and I hear you and I respect it, but it really is moot um >> at this point in time. So I'm going to give you 30 more seconds. >> Okay. What I would like to what I would like to achieve if at all possible would to see would be to see the new development agreement for Marlo Ridge incorporate some requirements that would protect the HOA from receiving an incomplete project and being subjected to potential costs large costs for work that wasn't completed and that the city would not enforce their oblir their contractual ual rights upon PY to complete those things. >> I think that's fair and reasonable. So, I'm going to your time is has ended. Very, very thoughtful comments. Thank you so much. And Casey, what would you like to what part of that would you like to address and then we'll move on to the next guest. >> Um, yeah. So, it's my belief and the you perhaps it's a question for the applicant after the public hearing. I believe they're having an HOA. I just don't understand if it would be an HOA over the entire development or just perhaps the twin home areas. But the applicant did mention the no mo, no plow. Um, so that to me tells me there will be an HOA. The city enters into a development contract with the developer, not with the homeowners association. And that is done as part of the final plat approval process. So this is a multi-phase development. Each phase of this development, whether that's three or four, will have its own development agreement. In that development agreement is security for all of the public improvements as part of the project. So the anything that will be public in the future, whether that's a sidewalk, a street, curb, sewer, water, storm, that's all secured. We have security for that. We have letters of credit and bonds or other things to secure that. The the more private amenity space, so whether that's a a certain landscape type, um it may be shown in the landscape plan, but it's not part of what the city reviews or requires. We require the tree replacement plan. We collect a security for that. And our agreement is with the developer. Our agreement does not transfer to the homeowners association. Our agreement is with the developer until the project is completed and accepted. >> Great. Thank you, Casey. Who else would like to approach planning commission? >> Can I can I ask one question before I leave? >> I I'd ask that you email it to Gayy because your time is up. >> Okay. I'll be I'll be in touch with Mr. McCabe then. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Please state your name. >> Hi, Emily Gors. I'm a resident of Prayer Lake at 14699 Lando Lane Northeast. I uh our house is right off of uh Coachman. Um, I addressed the planning uh committee last and um actually had some email communication with Casey during last and I really appreciate um the addressing of our concerns from the last meeting as well as uh my emails to you Casey. I was the resident that asked about uh the impact to our school district and I promise the the question that I have actually connects the two issues. I I got up and spoke around um the concern I had around um Fountain Hills and 21, which proved uh to be in the future a potential uh problematic intersection. Um I live off of Coachman Lane. Um I'm very curious in the trans in the um study for traffic if there was any study done relative to the traffic that this development would push down Coachman Lane as that is the only traffic intersection to go um left southbound on 21. Um, so I know that that uh based on what you guys shared, there wouldn't be a need for um any change at Carriage Hills Parkway and 21. Um but uh with an added neighborhood and this many units, um curious to understand what it would do to Coachman Lane and what it could potentially do to um my neighbors um often are putting out signs to have people slow down uh down that that road uh as their kids are out playing in our nice big front yards. Um so would would be very interested in understanding what the the impact of this development would do on traffic on Coachman Lane and specifically for the um intent to use a controlled traffic light to turn left on southbound 21. Um and that intersection hopefully shouldn't change because we have a school there and it's there for the crosswalk to the school. And I'll connect this um to my concerns around the school. Um I'd asked Casey around the change in um the tax base from residential or from commercial to residential in this plan and I understand it is only 10 acres um of a delta. Um and Casey explained to me that there are um some open opportunities uh with um some annexation of Spring Lake Township for us to develop more commercial properties that would feed our tax base that uh would be a commercial tax base. You may all all be very well aware that our school is uh our school districts are um facing financial crisis to the tune of you know multiple millions of dollars in funding cuts every year. Yes, we have declining enrollment but the state of our schools and the underfunding of those schools will continue to erode at the enrollment. People won't see this as a destin a destination district anymore any longer. And so if we reduce the commercial um opportunity, the tax base here, where are we going to find it? Um where will we offset uh the reduction in that um that uh that that tax base from residential to commercial? Casey explained to me that um we are our target is uh a ratio of 8020. 80% residential, 20% commercial. We're well below 10 uh% as it is. And so if we don't have already on the plan books of other commercial development in our in our town that will increase that ratio and and offset the changes that we're making just as it relates to this reszoning, what are we doing to the impact of an already struggling um financial situation for our school districts? So, just want to encourage you all as you work through your planning process that that is front and center in your mind. And while it looks like this land and the elevation that you're proposing, yes, it's harder to develop from a commercial standpoint. Um, you know, and you know, we're also providing variances for, you know, having homes closer to the street so we can fit more so we can fit more lots in it to sell more. just what are we what are we doing to the impact of that commercial residential um base? What are we doing to the um you know the the flow of traffic through our neighborhoods? I'm a resident of 22 years Fountain Hills and Carriage Hills. Um and uh I am just imploring that we take the study of this very carefully um and make sure that um you know just because it's what works for a developer isn't necessarily um you know what uh what may be in the best interests of our uh community. I will also say that uh I know that homes in our neighborhood are not selling for uh what the proposed uh starting price is for a town home across the street. So just a consideration as it relates to um the the the prices of the homes that are proposed as well. Those may struggle to sell at those prices um given um a a lot of factors. but uh the the surrounding community, the surrounding homes are not valued uh close to to that either. So, just the fact that they're new um and also just interest rates just um just would consider would those um does the demand actually meet uh and does this plan meet the demand and the ability for um not even families but um some new home buyers as well as older home um older uh community residents um does it fit their their financial um capabilities within that? So, just I'll seed my time um over back to the committee, but just would like to have you make sure that the communities hearing those are things that are on our neighborhood's mind and have you consider those as you evaluate um all of these exceptions that are being asked to um you know to develop this land. Thank you. >> Thank you, Emily, for the thoughtful commentary. At least two items stick out for me. case or andor Nick, I'll ask you to comment briefly on the the issue of um Coachman Lane and the controlled light. And then just to affirm, Emily, everything that you said, I I've been here since 2002 and the balance of commercial versus residential has been a perpetual guiding question that that we're still um trying to get right. So, I I assure you it hasn't it hasn't fallen off the radar screen. Casey. >> Uh, thank you, chair. So, for the the Coachman lane, um, that was not included in the traffic study. I don't know if the applicant would be prepared to address um, you know, any potential impact on their interning movements. My not I'm not a traffic engineer, but uh my hunch is, you know, if the residential only portions of this development aren't requiring signal changes at 21 and Fountain Hills, there's probably, you know, less to no impact. I don't want to say no impact, less of an impact at Coachman, but perhaps the applicant can answer that. Um, in regards to the loss of commercial question, I get it. Like we mentioned in our report, I have been here almost 15 years and we don't we don't reguide and reszone commercial property for residential purposes. Um the city of Prior Lake made that mistake many times 25 30 years ago when you look at certain neighborhoods that were guided for commercial development and then we ask ourselves why is only 8% of our tax base from commercial industrial. It's because we reszoneed 400 acres over the last 30 years. Um we do have about 500 acres guided for commercial industrial development. It's not all ready to be served. It's going to take utility extensions. Um that number is probably much greater than what uh demand study would say we need, but we like to provide options. We like to be in different locations of the community, uh different types of of commercial as well. So, we're working on it. We're not there yet. Um, and then the last thing I would add is this this area it would be a a loss of of commercial on paper, but this property has sat here for sale for 25 years. And the developer is proposing to construct Fountain Hills, which has been a huge driver, a huge reason why no commercial has happened in that corner because of the cost. So, whoever buys that property to the north is essentially getting a free collector road built um by this developer that they would not have to pay for and they would not have to dedicate right away for. >> Yeah. Just to add just very very quickly because the hour is getting late, but it in my mind, I'm just one of uh seven planning commissioners. Um I think it is the question that Prior Lake has to figure out. in the next three to five years. H how are we going to achieve a smart balance of residential and commercial that honors our legacy? When I first moved here, the mantra was Prior Lake, a wonderful place to call home. And it is. It's a great place to call home. And the economic reality suggests that we have to do something different. we have to do something different in terms of making sure we guide a better balance sustainable balance of commercial and residential. So, >> hi Olivia Sutton 14347 Enclave Court Northwest um in Prior Lake and um so I live in the Jeffers development and um I just wanted to find out a little bit more information. And I was emailing a little bit with Casey about the proposed um intersection development at Fountain Hills and 21. So um I know we talked about kind of pushing that down until there's more businesses developed um for the business park, but I know considering in the Jeffers development, we've got the brand new apartment that's just been built and there's another one going up now with like another 800 or so units. um that pushes a lot more traffic out into Fountain Hills and it's really hard to turn left, you know, to go back into Shakipi from my road now. Um there's a lot of accidents at the intersection and I know we didn't really hear about the traffic study that was conducted there. So, I was wondering if you could hear more information about the traffic study at Fountain Hills 21 um that was for the current traffic and then if they were also considering the um new traffic that will come from the apartments and Jeffers in addition to the new houses and the business park and if that can be evaluated sooner than just when the business park comes along, but maybe when some of that traffic starts coming about from the new housing that'll be next year, too. uh intersection 21. And I will also mention too when you the new apartments, if you turn on to 42 going west, you can only turn right to get back to the really big intersection of 41 and 20 um 42 and 21, you can't turn left there. So anybody that's coming out of say if I wanted to leave my development and go out that way, you can't turn left. You only can turn right. So it just kind of makes more people come out into the Fountain Hills 21 exit. So, I'll take a stab at this and I may have to have Alliance comment on this as well. Um, high level, yes, counts were looked at at all legs of that intersection that is the Fountain Hills on the west side of 21 as well. um as far as they use numbers that they count during the pro the study. So they actually put up cameras and get traffic counts. So that's the those are the numbers utilized in this study or the model and what they are telling us is without commercial being developed there just the development that's in front of us today um it would not meet warrants at that time for a signal it would just be the same stop condition. Now, PY will be adding a turn lane to go into the um the east side, the east development since it doesn't exist today. Um and then once the commercial does fully build out based on the uses they assumed, those can change. um approximately 2030 or 27 or 2037 building scenarios would dictate an an improvement at that intersection which would likely be a signal. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I think you >> Olivia you can anticipate some followup from staff >> in the coming coming days. >> Can I ask a clarification? >> Can I ask a clarification? >> Yeah. Uh just just for clarity, Nick. So the traffic study from what you shared with us earlier that that was looking at everything that is east of 21. I believe what she was just asking about was the is that taking into account all of the other development that's happening on the west side of 21 into the enclave development on the other side of Fountain Hills in terms of what's coming at it from both sides onto 21. >> Correct. So it did not look at those developments, but what it did is they put a camera on the east side of Fountain Hills. They counted the actual traffic. >> So they used those data. >> But in terms of with this new apartment coming online and everything else, >> it it would have been cars that it would have counted. >> It depending on the timing of when the counters were out, it probably accounted the existing building there now, not the one that's going in in the future. >> Got it. Thank you. >> Hi, Amy Azinger, 14565 Siri Lane Northeast over in Carriage Hills. Beautiful walk. Thank you to the Verlings for having had that farm for as long as I have. Um, looking at the plan that was sent out with the notification, one of the concerns I think a lot of us have is that is it a fiveletter word? Trees. Why is it that developers come in and rip out all the trees only to put trees back in there? And that's where I'm looking at the um sheet that was sent out and there is long carriage hills especially between carriage lane and Siri lane. There says outlot H. There's a what? FG and H on those. Are those actually there's beautiful trees along there. Are because it's an outlot. Are they going to be ripped out as part of that 1300 that are going to be taken out? Because that's that's where I can understand trees do have to go because of the nature of the land and where the houses are going to go. But the question then comes down to why do they so many have to go as far as keeping that green space and the conservation efforts? Yep. I believe Outlet H is located on the southern portion of the development commissioners along Carriage Hills and yes those trees will all be removed or are proposed to be removed for the construction street connections and house pads. >> Okay. Thank you. there. Sorry, just before I go on, there is one on the exhibit or the screen in front of you. There is a piece of property under that dips down to carage hills. That curved piece. Is that what you're talk? Because that's >> that is not part of the development property. So, those trees should not be >> those trees in that area should not be impacted. >> Thank you for that confirmation. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Our next guest, >> Mike Verling, 13985 Pike Lake Trail, Par Lake. I'm I should say I farm this land since I was well born on the farm since kindergarten, ninth grade, start really taking it over and now my son is taking it over. Um, the biggest problem this farm really had was the wetland on 21 Corner or Carriage Hills. Carriage Hills came in, they put a pipe into the wetland. It was a quick take. We had nothing to say. It came in, it flooded that pasture out. We had before that pipe came in, we grazed our cattle on that. that kept the feed cost down. Over the years when they put the pipe in, my cattle got stuck. We pulled how many cows out of there and we had our young stock in there. We had calves. The cows were pregnant and get their calves on that site. And when those cows came in, you probably don't know that the cow situation, but there was in water. the the cows came in, our young stock and replacements had mystitis. We had getting to be having no replacement cows. That was that took my dairy business out of business. Um and then one day the milk trucker came and said, "Mike, we can't pick your milk up no more. You're out of our there's no other dairy farms getting to be close to you anymore." So I was done. So, we had to make a decision and we did. We We got some beef cattle to keep us going. And but I do want to say I want to thank everybody in Carriage Hills for seeing a cow that got out on their yard and give me a call. And for take for the the tractors on the road, you stayed behind us. And some people that want to go on the shoulder and couldn't wait. But it it is getting kind of dangerous out there and and you're talking about traffic study right now. Common sense, you're going to have 500 people. I mean 500 cars more a day. You can figure what you have in let's say 300 homes, two per home at least. That's 600 home 600 cars. You take 21 right now. It's 7 in the morning. They're backed up. You go on 42. You go on 42, try to get to 21 at four o'clock. the turn lane. There is no turn lane left. They're out on on 42. It's just common sense. You can do all your traffic studies and all you want. You're just going to know there's going to be more traffic. Um I do care for every person that lives around the neighborhood. Um we had over the years many plans on this property. Right now, this is number M plan. Start with number A. And I got nothing to say, but this is the plan that they say it's going to work. And so we got to and I want and we still are going to get commercial property. So that's what we need in this. We got to get the taxes down in this it's Colonia. So we we need more commercial and at least we getting some. But uh like I said, I do concern about everybody who lives here. And I do got a issue. We did a survey and one of the houses they got a shed on it and a a wall and that needs to be cleared up because I am concerned about every person who next to it. If I own that house, I would be concerned what's going to happen. Do I got to take my shed down or what's going to happen? So, that needs to be issued. Um, another issue I got you talking about the storm water. You're talking about everything about the storm water on the site. What happens after the site? Let's take a look on the edge of the corner. Well, let's go back. Let's go back to the traffic traffic control. Pike Lake Trail in 42 intersection. I did not like that. That comment. Let's wait until the next development. I don't like that. Is a dangerous intersection right now. They're going to put that road in behind Holiday. Look right on the map. Right past Holiday into the new development. What is there in there's a road that goes right into the development. How many cars are going to go turn on Pike Lake to get to that one to avoid 21. All that whole side cars are going to come in. That's that Pike Lake Trail intersection is going to be really busy. And there is right now there is a lot of accidents on that. I hear them. I'm in the house and I hear bang and I know right where it is. Go look at the police report and see how many accidents are on Pike Lake Trail right now. You'd be amazed how many got hit. So that's what that's the biggest concern I got about that. Now drainage on that corner on right there. Right. You got the button right there. Where is that water all going to? I heard it's going to go into the the town homes right there. We had a problem back in I don't know 10 years ago. We had a we got a big big rain. It it could not handle it. So what did I do? I put a burm up and I moved it up ahead and went into the pond that goes into in front of the town homes. It's a no no, but it's a it worked. So, but I had to fix it because the backyards were getting water right up to the backyard of the house. So, I had to fix it. It was my fault, they said. So, I that's what I did to get by, but I'm worried about because I heard the easement has to go on that person's that property there. And now they say maybe easement, maybe not easement. I don't got the right 100% answer. And I don't want to come back to get the development done. and whoever owns that house there is going to say I got water now because of this development. So I'm trying to protect that person right now. So that has an issue. Another issue is the big pond. They said they're going to raise it. How are they going to raise it? Are they going to put dirt in the bottom to raise it up four feet or are they just going to push all that water into it so it goes up higher? And then how how high is that berm going to be on that one side? Because right now There's no houses there. And I got water from fence post on 21 all the way to my crop field right now. And there's no houses. And I don't I don't understand. I don't believe the story about well they say you're going to put more ponds in so you're going to have less water. They said that to me on cars and look what happened to me. So I don't believe that story. So, another issue I have, >> Mike, you have about a minute. >> Okay. This last issue I got the big water, the big water wetland, it's going to go, how is it going to get to Pike Lake Trail? When it goes off their property, it's going to go on 27 acres. Where is it going to go? Is it going to go this way? So, I going to lose more wet going more wetlands on my property yet I still have. or what's going to happen to Pike Lake when it goes across 42. That was my concern. I'm concerned about other people who owns other property. You just can't say, well, we're going to contain all this water on this property, but we can't we got to say where is it going to go? Who's it going to affect afterwards? So, my my main issue was you got to figure out that e that survey that was done. Pike Lake Trail, I didn't like that. I mean that Pike Lake Trail intersection that that was not a good answer. We wait till it gets new development in here. No, you don't want somebody be dead and say, "Well, then now we got to fix it." We don't want that issue. And then that big wetland, how is it going to get to down to Pike Lake without doing any more damage? Because I can tell you right now, my old farm pipes are busted are gone. Done. Completely gone. When that new water came in, it just blew apart. Thank you. >> Thank you, staff. I'm going to um suggest um that any responses that you have that you communicate those via email andor in a a private meeting with with Mr. Verling, our next guest. >> Hi, I'm Ralph Wagner. I live 4116 Broamp Boulevard Northeast. That's going to be a tough one to follow. Uh, I've been living here in Prior Lake over 20 years. Uh, one of the things I'd like to talk about first is we talk about Carriage Parkway or Highway. You said, "Well, we'll put up a crosswalk or two." Crosswalks don't save lives. If you ever tried to watch the kids cross the street, traffic's getting quick up there. Okay, so just remember that crosswalks don't save lives. They're just suggestions today. Um, we did this map up here where you got the minimum density. Um, how much of that is the wetlands in there and what is the real number? I think you said we're about seven houses or what is it? Seven per deal, but with half of it being we'll call it Lake Verling for right now. Okay. Um, yeah, I think the number's a lot higher. So, we're going to have issues with parking with your town houses and complex there. I really don't want to look out my backyard and see them either. I'd rather see them someplace else like your neighborhood. Um and um the last problem I have here is we have another water drainage on Carriage Lane or Carriage Hills that is on the south side of the road right across from there. How much problems are we going to have with water in there for extra storm water and stuff like that? I'm really not for a medium density. Low density I think we can work with. Putting medium density in there is just greedy and problems. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next guest, >> Chris Brun at 4364 Chestnut. >> I don't know that we cut your name. >> Oh, yep. Chris Brun. >> Thanks. >> Yep. So just one question question comment. Um I'm just wondering why the the plat is having um as it as it is now it's going from the Carriage Hills neighborhood low density then to town homes then to the duplexes as opposed to a gradient where it's more you know the low density in the Carriage Hills neighborhood to the low medium medium density, which would be the the duplexes, and then to the high medium, which would be the town homes. And that factors into the parking, too. There's going to be more people going to those uh the six-pack buildings there, the um the town homes rather than the the duplexes. So, that's that's pushing more of that parking traffic into possibly south of Carriage Hills Parkway, as others have mentioned. Um, so yeah, that's that's my only comment question is I don't know why the it's it's kind of it's not working in grade in a gradient up to that office park there. I've worked in construction for years and that's kind of more the standard buildout is low up to high as opposed to kind of jumping around. Um, yep, that's all I got. >> Thank you. >> Casey, could you address that maybe quickly and then when Mr. the hire comes back. Maybe you could address that as well. >> Yeah, thank you chair. It is a good question. They can uh this is what the developer proposed. This is what they feel works for their neighborhood in the flow um into certain areas. We don't have a requirement that if you have a mixed density that it needs to be on a specific side of the development, but I it it's fair question. >> Thanks. Next guest. Please clearly state your name and address for the record. Good evening. I'm Bob Zable, 4421 Foxh Hunt Court Northeast in Prior Lake. Uh my questions are pretty minuscule to a lot of things that have been brought up and uh one thing I did want to do is show a little respect to the rearlings. Uh they're kind of getting pushed out with the growth of this city and whatnot and uh seeing the turnover and how the land has changed. So kudos to you for putting up with it as long as you guys have. Um, one question I have for the infrastructure that's going to be put in, what kind of interruptions or anything like that are we going to look at as residents there now when the new stuff does come in? Are there going to be interruptions? Are we going to see any increases in our taxes due to some of the new sewer and road work or whatnot done to that? Uh, next question I have is with the town homes that have been brought up that are going to be along Carriage Hills Parkway. Uh, is there going to be trees put along that partway, a fence uh, along those town homes? And for the city as well, we had a lot of trees that were removed in the middle of the boulevard. Are those going to be replaced? That will help set off this new development as well too if some of those trees are going to be replaced. So that's really all I got. >> Casey, would you take a stab at that? So I have uh anticipated disruptions, uh taxbased implications that I mean that's not only a question for this body for but for the community at large and the city council. Um and then tree birming. >> Um I'll let Nick handle the the tree birming question in the median. Um there should be no t cost to the taxpayer. So as a city it's development pays for development. So the developer will construct all of the utilities, all of the streets, all put in all the traffic signs, do all the plantings. There will be no cost to the taxpayer um for this development. Once everything is done and tested and accepted by staff and the city council, then it becomes a city maintenance uh project moving forward. So, um, no cost. There should be no interruptions to service the the utility connections or any work like that. Um, I don't know on the fence question for the town home. That would not be something that the city requires that a fence be installed because it's not separating residential from commercial use. It's residential to residential. So, there would not be a fence requirement. They could certainly plant one if they chose to. Um, and then maybe Director Monster who can handle the the boulevard trees. I'm not familiar with that. Uh, regarding the trees that have been removed on the median carriage hills, um, we we do we do and we don't put them back. It it just it varies um depending on availability when we have trees that we can put somewhere. Usually our parks take priority of replacing trees um before we put them in boulevards. But we do we have a giant list as you could imagine throughout the city of tree replacement and boulevards both uh center boulevards and um side boulevards as well. So ideally yes, but I don't have a timing on that. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Casey. Our next guest. >> Hello. Uh, Lynn Sloan, 4367 Fox Hunt Court. I also want to say thank you to the Verlings. Um, Bobby in general. Taught my son some great work ethic as he was growing up. And, um, I just want to thank them for, um, affording him the opportunity to do some farming when he was younger. And he is now a police officer. um and helped corral some of those cows over the years. So um lived in the community for 30 years, love it. Um and feel very grateful that we've had as long as we've had without further development. My couple areas are really around the traffic. Um I am one of those clusters of walkers. Uh we walk the parkway two times a day with our dogs and um there it is quite dangerous at certain times and um there will be a lot more traffic. I would say in general the parking that was set up for the park is not sufficient and it is a blind turn. So, um, something needs to be incorporated into your plans to have proper parking in maybe in some space of that new area that's being developed to get rid of the Carriage Hills Parkway spaces. It's very dangerous and people illegally park and get tickets. Um, so the speeding the intersections that you're going to be building out some of these new roads, you really need to do some further inspection about how you're going to improve those um intersections because it will be dangerous not only for the drivers, but we have a lot of pedestrians on that Carrot Hills Parkway, including people that are riding ebikes, scooters, and all sorts of other things that may or may not be on those paths or should be on those paths. So, keep in mind not just traffic patterns, but people patterns and you should be making some assessments on that. Um, so that's my uh main area of concern. I would say the other piece that I'm a little confused on is the easement setback as we're walking and using that parkway for wellness and, you know, just time with our families and our dogs. How what am I going to be looking at? And will there be like somebody's backyard is going to be butdding up to the path? Like is it going to be and I know there's questions on trees or like some kind of privacy fence so that there's still more of a natural feel to your parkway versus, you know, backing up to a yard and having a dog run out at you when you're walking your dog. And finally, the last question I have is it sounds like it's going to start next summer, which I think is aggressive because all the plumbing and streets and everything have to go in. Is the timing of this development when would it be wrapped up? So, from start to best guess estimate of when we would have a full complete community, I'd like to know that too. Thank you. >> Go ahead, Casey. >> Um, attempt to answer some of those. I will let the developer discuss timing of the project, but I would imagine it is 3 to four years at a minimum to be completed. Um, as far as the the trail on Carriage Hills Parkway, this might not be the best exhibit, but you know, the street uh existing trail is going to remain. So the you will be walking at the back of the attached town home units on the west side of the development and in the rear yards and sideyards of these properties in the single family detached. Um there was comments on the parking for the carriage hills park. That is not there are no plans as part of this plan to do any changes or any additional parking for the park that is south of the property. Thank you. Our next guest, your name and address for the record, please. >> Uh, good evening. Dan Foster, uh, 4402 Fox Court, Prior Lake. Um, first of all, u, Mr. Chairman, Commission and staff. Thank you for your time. Uh, outstanding job by staff in, uh, their presentation tonight. Very informative. And Casey, thanks for your email exchanges as well. Very, very helpful. Um, I guess the uh Fox Hunt court team is ganging up on you here tonight, but uh you know, we've all been there for 30ome years now. Um, and like my uh neighbors want to give a heartfelt hello and thank you to Mike and the Verling family. Um, my kid uh is good friends with Bobby has hung out with Mike and I want to just tell you here's how wonderful that family is. my uh kid had a birthday. I think Mike, you might even remember. Uh he was maybe four years old and uh Mike took the time with his family to bring his tractor and a trailer and a bunch of hay bales to give kids rides. Um so thank you for that and thank you for being wonderful neighbors. Um, so what I think you're hearing the last two meetings that um, I've been in at now is a connection between the density that's being proposed for this neighborhood, meaning the amount of people and cars um, in conjunction with an existing problem with vehicles, intersections, and speed of vehicles. And I don't think it's a stretch to to take what you're hearing from the community tonight and previous meeting and and and really come to a conclusion that's going to get worse with this much more activity uh these many more people. Not saying that the development is um something we shouldn't do. I think it was inevitable. U 30 years ago we knew this was going to happen and it took a long time to get here. Um, and I think for the most part the plan is uh sound as a residential community. I'm not aware of any um life cycle communities in Prior Lake. Um if there is one, I' I'd like to hear about it, but um I'm very curious though that the segregation that exists within the community um historically is done in separate neighborhoods. Um you don't really see this kind of mix. I think it's an uh interesting idea. Um but I um with the prices that have been proposed, I'd be uh I'll be a little surprised to see how well it does, but I wish uh I wish the PY group um success. Um the question I would have for the PY folks is, and maybe it's proprietary information, but how did you come up with the mix of town houses, the percentage of town houses versus um single family homes and twin homes? um in terms of coming up with the total number of units by size or type um because I think that speaks directly to the density question and concern that people have had. Um my last comments will be just to tack on to um the traffic and safety issues again. Uh I I would ask maybe that the the uh committee uh the commission make a request of the of the safety committee that Nick works with um to take a really good hard close look at what's going to happen beyond modeling. Um you know we the folks that have been here uh for the last two meetings talking about the traffic concerns. Um, these are real real life personal experiences every day and I think it's going to get a whole lot worse. Um, and I think it'd be helpful to have some really good information um, beyond modeling that would suggest that um, more traffic uh, improvements and potentially and and I know that's not for this group to come up with, but potentially a reduction in the speed limit on Carills Parkway. Uh you saw some numbers that are pretty telling. I think they're even worse than that about the number of speeding vehicles and how fast they're going. Um one of my neighbors uh spoke last last month about um the excessive speeds we see with these vehicles. I I I respect that there's an opinion about the cars will slow down once there's intersections. Um, I'm hardressed to believe that that'll happen because Carriage Hills Parkway is a divided roadway and people tend to use it as a racetrack and we've seen some incredibly excessive speeds. U lane intersection, speaker earlier talked about how um that's a blind intersection. So, if you're on Siri Lane exiting onto U Carriage Hills Parkway, the traffic coming from the west from your left um is partially blind. And so sometimes those cars are going very fast and by the time you start to pull out, they're on top of you. Um so due diligence on on the traffic studies and and really trying to avoid someone getting hurt as the traffic increases with this density of of people. And the last thing I'll say is the the pitch uh um uh Bob made about um the trees. They did go through and take down a lot of trees um last year and the year before I believe it was and much of it was from emerald ashbor. They took down um most if not all of the ash trees. Um I would like the the commission to consider um putting those back or or directing staff to try to put those back. The park is uh can be beautiful um but it's pretty barren with all those trees that were taken out and u maybe not make it part of this project but um a future project for the for the city. That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you Evan before you come back up. Is there anyone else in the audience? >> Sure. >> I am going to inter it's so quick. They did they answer my two questions. I don't remember hearing them. answer my two questions. >> Yes. So I I >> I know and I'll move but >> with so with with my direction Casey will be in touch with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's what the answer was at the end. It's like everyone else you're answering their questions right away. You're doing dialogue. I was the first >> actually I'm going to stop you because that's not that's not true. >> It's not factual. So Casey, please make a note. Thank you. Next guest. Hi, Rihanna Saxon, Bridal Ridge Trail, Prior Lake. So, one other guest did ask a question, but I didn't get full clarity. So, given that that is farmland, there's going to have to be like sewer, water, gas, electric, everything run in there. Are we the taxpayers going to be stuck with all of that, those up costs? like, are we going to have to pay for all of that given that there's none of that in that land at this point to build this huge new development? And also, you know, we've been talking about traffic and intersections, and I agree with everything everybody's saying because all night long I all I hear is like the racing of cars up and down and up and down, and I can hear the crashes on that, you know, 21 and 42. And I don't know about anybody else, but leaving for work in the morning is a nightmare, going down 21 and having that traffic backed up into 21, trying to get on to 169 and then once you're on 169, you're just stuck. And what we're not really saying is that say if you have 13, you've got 18, you've got 21, everything funnels down to 169. We can't widen 169 because of the waterways there. And if engineers did try to structurally build something that was going to be wider, it would cost billions of dollars and take years for that construction. All you got to do is look at like 494 over by like France and 100. Nightmare. So, you know, my concern is like how are we going to just keep building and building? because I've lived here for 20 something years and I mean the amount of homes that have been built is built has been like off the hook and I know Mr. Jeffers, he actually gave all that property to the city and asked that nobody would build on it because he was worried about overpopulation. And of course, you know, his wishes weren't respected and there's been thousands of homes built there now. And there was a lot of things that were promised that never came to fruition on that property. And um I guess my other question is I I think you made a lovely comment about you know moving to Prior Lake because this is such a it's such a beautiful city and I I love I love living here. I treasure it. It's beautiful. It's definitely changed, but there's still been an aesthetic that I think, you know, I want to hold on to that aesthetic with, you know, respecting the environment. like watching the one of my favorite things is like all the egrets and the herand and all the swans and the snow geese and things that come into this beautiful community and it just it makes your heart like feel different than you know if you're living in the city and I don't want us to lose that and I would really like for you to take into consideration um I've been to other communities around the country that are lake communities and they have an aesthetic you know like our little city has like a a little bit of an, you know, old-fashioned kind of a feeling, very homey, and you go for ice cream or you go to the farmers market or I just don't want us to lose that. And I think it would be really great if there was some sort of design potential so that we don't end up looking like Burnsville. Sorry if anybody's from Burnsville. Um, I don't want to look like Burnsville. I don't want to look like Savage, you know? And I mean, I think it's great that we get some commercial property in, but I think like, let's just say, and I'm not saying we should look like Edina, but Edina has an aesthetic. They want a certain look, and the people that come in to buy and do commercial property have to have a particular aesthetic. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think we need to keep that lake community feel. and that I just think that is so important. I appreciate your time. Thank you. I'll go wait. >> Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Um Casey, do you want to address the pass through to taxpayers that comment? >> Sure. Um yeah, first I'll just say that the city the only parkland the city received in the Jeffers Pond development is the actual parks that are still parks. That property was not given to the city of Prair Lake. It was developed by the Jeffers Foundation in different stages of residential and commercial development. So again, city's only involvement is maintaining the park. Um there is zero cost for the taxpayer for this project. So the developer pays for every utility, every street, curb, the sad, the trees, the street signs, street lights, everything. Um the city will only accept the project once all of that's done and it's tested at at the completion. Thank you. Our next guest, please state your name and address for the record. >> Uh Jamie Pockert, uh 14525 Siri Lane. Uh I'm going to start calling my house the war zone area cuz I am literally on the corner of Carriage and Siri. Um, I've been through construction before and it was with water treatment plant and we were 15 residents that were all at the meeting and the city had we're not going to have any lighting. We're not going to have any fencing. You're never going to know it's there. Guess what? We knew it was there because I battled them. And I had two, my two kids at the time were like maybe four and six and they had a water blowoff valve and every two hours or four hours this thing would make think of a semi sitting in your living room hitting the air brakes. That's what it sounded like. So construction noise, I know it's going to happen, but my question is is where's the traffic going to go for the construction? Because the way I look at it is they're not going to build the street right away from Fountain to Suri. So that's not going to be anything. So that means all this traffic is going to be coming in on Siri Lane. And the second question is the hours of operation because is it going to be 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. or is it going to be sun up to sun down? because when I had to deal with the water treatment plant, there was traffic all the way up till 9 10:00 at night going in and out of there hauling stuff. So, and then my third thing, obviously the traffic study. I think your traffic study's skewed, too. Um, Saturday, you you guys need to sit I will invite all the city council down to sit in my sideyard. I will bring you beverages, refreshments. I'll even cook you food just to watch. >> What? What kind of beverages? whatever you want. It can't be this Saturday though. I have a graduation party. But I will invite you guys down to just sit there for two hours or even an hour and the amount of boat traffic and people going by. You know, they don't have to go down to 42 anymore. They just got to, you know, we can just cut through up carriage hills and stuff. And then Thursday nights there's ball games. So having a traffic study from 4:30 in the afternoon to 6:00, 6:30, that that that's nothing. That's 2 hours. I mean, come when it's busy. I mean, it's insane. I mean, I can count 20 boats going by within 15 minutes because it's so easy now to go that way. And 20 boats coming back. Same thing with Pike Lake. They'll come out on Pike Lake, too. I mean, I was coming home from work, turned on Pike Lake. There's three trucks with one with a boat, one with jet skis, one with another boat. So, I mean, I would like to see another traffic study done, but not like during the week, like do a full weekend, like Saturday from 7:00 a.m. to Sunday at 5:00 when everybody's getting off the lake. Or even a better one, Fourth of July weekend when everybody's trying to get off the lake. That would be a great one because I'll tell you that traffic's horrible. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Commissioner. I can uh respond to a couple of those. So, the the construction schedule um the city code allows construction from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Friday and 8 to 5 on Saturday. And then the traffic study was it was I'm guessing not done over a weekend. It was completed, but there was counters out for two days. It wasn't just counting traffic from 4 to 4:30. So, a 48 hour period. 4 to 4:30 was the peak uh traffic time. So, but I'm I'm assuming it was probably a a weekday traffic study. >> Yep. Casey, do you have any or Nick, do you have any sense of what the cost to the city would be if we if we augmented, not did away with, but augmented the existing traffic impact study and kept those counters out for five days versus two. for the simple data we collect is the city to have them out for five days is minimal. Now I don't recall how long Alliant had their counters out for this traffic study. Usually it's a longer period of time usually around a week maybe even two weeks and then they compile the data. So they want those weekends. They want multiple weekends. Um they're quite thorough in the numbers. >> Okay. Thank you. Hi, my name is Ralph Wagner. I have one more question I need to ask. Has this already been approved? Is this a done deal that's going to happen? >> No. No. That's why we're having the public hearing. >> This is a public hearing. So, it's not approved. I'm hearing this timeline about early spring. You know, we want to get going early spring or have the first house in. And that's really kind of confusing. It's sounding like it's a done deal, but it's not. >> I I I didn't quite understand. It's not approved. >> This has not been formally approved. >> All right. Thank you. >> Anyone else want to address the council? The commission, not the city council. This goes on to the city council. Okay. I'll ask the developer and maybe someone from He's got it. Great. Thank you. Mr. Chair, Planning Commission, let me take a shot at some of these answers. Casey and Nick might have some additional answers. >> Do you need some water before you begin? >> You can tell. Huh? I'm okay. Thank you. >> Um, first question was, are we going to have homeowners associations? Uh, yes. We will have one homeowners association for the town home neighborhood. We will also have a separate homeowners association for the twin homes. Different levels of service there. Possibly might be combined, but they're they're they're a little separate. We haven't decided yet whether we're going to have a homeowners association for the single family neighborhoods. That really depends on entrance monuments and other shared things. So, that's yet to be determined. timing of the homes. Um the timeline I gave, yes, was aggressive and assumed um that we would be approved, but that is that is not a done deal. So, if things go well, our approvals would happen by the city council on June 23rd. Um then it all goes to the Met Council for an unknown amount of time because they have no requirements for timelines. That could be 30 days, 60 days. um if they approve it, then at that point in time, we would close on the property and try to start construction right away. Um it's a lot of work to be done. We wouldn't get it all done in one year. Um but yes, the goal would be to be able to get enough construction work done this year to be able to open some model homes in say January of 2027 and start selling homes about that time. Um and that's why I said April to June or whatever months I said there that range is because we start selling homes in January or February in the model homes. Um people start buying homes and then they go through their choices of many things and we start building the homes. So um somewhere in the summer of 2027 would be the earliest that we would see people living in the neighborhood. Another question was about how the traffic study showed any impacts to Coachman Lane. I don't have that kind of answer tonight. I would suggest that that person uh email Nick if you don't mind. Um if you want to refer her to me, that's fine, too. But um we have the traffic study and deep in the back are some detailed appendixes appendices where you can find th those answers. There was question about um what was included in the traffic study. Um and it included the residential portion of so this entire application plus the business office park because we knew that that may generate a fair amount of traffic. So that was really a legitimate thing to take a look at. In the background we had a what's called a background generation growth rate. So um that accounts for the apartment building and other things. So we had a growth rate of 1% per year adding on each year. And all of this was not just uh willy-nilly decided by us. You know, we worked with the city staff. We worked with the county. In fact, we had go through a few iterations with the county in terms of exactly what they wanted studied and we did exactly as they asked. Um, this is kind of counterintuitive, but I I hear a lot of comments um that are very logical talking about why don't we make some transportation improvements now before it becomes dangerous. And that is a very logical um comment, but that is not how the transportation industry works. I think they found that if decades ago that if it was politicized that every intersection would have a stop sign and a signal and we'd have a lot of slower speeds out there. So it would kind of gridlock our traffic. So what they determined is they use math and they look at crashes. They look at as Nick said earlier how long people wait to take a turn in a turn lane. And all of these things are called warrants. And when finally an intersection or a street meets warrants, then improvements must be done. And what what's unseen is mindat the counties um they build their roads and intersections for a temporary time period and they know that someday they're going to need more improvements. They wait until it's needed before they actually spend that money. So, it is kind of counterintuitive, but it's kind of like things have to get worse before they can get better. And that's a terrible thing, I know, to say to to to the public because it sounds sounds awful. Um, but that's how the traffic industry works. And it's very very logical. It's very mathoriented and it's very consistent across the country that way so that we don't spend a lot of money on things before they're actually needed. There was another question about why we remove all the trees and that one that one bothers me because I agree. Um this is not blaming the city but there are many regulations that we have to satisfy and in satisfying those we can't have streets that go with the existing hills and go very steep because we have winters with slick roads. So, we have to flatten those roads out so it's safer. Or we have to have yards that drain a certain uh at certain grade so that everything drains. If we drive through a Minnetonka today, it looks fantastic because they didn't have any of those engineering regulations. But, you know, I I think we learned over the decades that there's a lot there's a cost for that and that those costs are drainage problems and sometimes other problems. Um, so the bottom line is we can't save many trees in our neighborhoods because we have to follow all these regulations and I'm not complaining. Those regulations do have logic and they lead to less problems. So it's a trade-off that society has made. Um, other people other than me can make decisions to to change those assumptions, but um that's what we have decided. Are the trees going to be removed from the outlots? Um, we're not touching the outlot that is along Prior Lake. The outlot that is the business office park north of Fountain. Um, to a to a certain degree, this neighborhood has been largely decided in terms of where the streets go and everything else because there are intersections on all sides of it that we just have to connect to. So, it's kind of fixed. My point is Fountain Lane Drive has to connect to the ex existing intersections both on the east and the west side and therefore it has to go right through the wetland. As part of that um we're going to damage the wetland that's north of um Fountain. So whether we fill it now and whether there's trees there, I don't know. My point is there's a small amount of work we'll be doing on the business office park area to uh remove the home and buildings uh for the verings but also for filling that wetland drainage. There's a lot of comments about drainage. I could talk for a long time about all of those. Um, the good news is Minnesota has strong storm water regulations and those are as simple as this. Pre-development and post-development. When you get to post-development, the rate of flow that flows off the property in a certain direction cannot be increased post-development. And that's really with with the advent of ponds that hold the water back so that gradually releases so that we don't release water at a greater rate. and case law throughout the state over the last five, six decades has kind of settled on this is reasonable. You know, if if your water drains on somebody's property um and you don't make it worse, then everything's good. So, in this case, there's a couple things we we heard about drainage. Mr. Verling talked about drainage kind of up on the northeast corner going into the town home area. In that area, we're actually reducing the drainage area by 90% and the amount of um actual flow by 85%. So, we're making a lot of improvements in that area. Um from the wetland, the large wetland going north to Pike Lake, again, we must follow the regulations. So, again, our peak flows that go out of that wetland will be less than is currently going out of that wetland. And again, that's that's done through the use of things like our ponds that hold the water back. and also these structures that are in the pond that release the water. They have little holes in them, outlet control structures so that we control exactly how much water is released from that wetland. So all of those things really lead to um you know compliance with what our strong storm water regulations are throughout the state that have worked really well over the last 50 years. Can't read my writing here. Sorry. I do see a note that the rate of flow coming from the large wetland going north is now about 15 cubic feet per second. It will be reduced to three. So that's going to be cut to 20% of what it is now. And again, it's not magic and it's it's it's the use of ponds and these outlook control structures that allow us to do that. Why did we not have low density residential along Carriage Hills Parkway? Yeah, this is a complicated answer. Um the these aren't rules, but here's some guidelines we oftentimes use. When you see a road that's very busy like 21 and uh Carriage Hills Parkway is not quite as busy but still a fairly busy road, we typically try to put some of the um the more intensive uses uh in those sorts of intersections. It's not a rule. It doesn't mean you can't have a million-dollar home at that kind of intersection and it might sell and it might uh you know people might be happy living there, but overall, you know, the the people who are buying the more expensive homes are a little less tolerant of, you know, living in a situation like that. So, the the town home buyers are a little more tolerant. So, there there's a logic to it. There's also this kind of gradation. I said earlier we're kind of stuck really with where the intersections would be and and how access to the site would occur. We already had intersections preset on Carish Hills Parkway. They're already built. So we knew where we had to connect and Fountain Hills Drive, same thing. So my point is we knew that Suriri would be a north south collector. It was shown on the city's comprehensive plan. It was a given. That's a natural divider between different types of uh housing. So we use that as a natural divider. It ends up being that fountain is also going to be a natural divider between the business office park on the north side and and residential on the south side. So taking into account all those factors, it just kind of came together with those sorts of um layouts. When will all the homes be built? 2030, 2031. If the market continues exactly as it is today, it never does. It might be better, might be worse, but um that's roughly the the the outlook right now. How do we come up with the mix? gonna start this morning with a short video and I'm going to turn it over to get that started and then we'll jump into our PowerPoint presentation. Happy to begin this state of the city address with the announcement that the core apartments is finally under construction. Hi, my name is Jason Wedell and I'm the priority manager. For years and years, I've been talking about this project next door to city hall starting and it's finally here. The two houses that were have been removed and this $30 million project is now starting to come out of the ground. The Kora Apartments will bring 105 new market rate apartments to the downtown area. Each unit will have underground parking with 135 stalls equates to one stall per bedroom and that is more than any of the other those answers better than I do that will figure those things out. Um however usually in our development agreement um those things are discussed if not written in the development agreement and they're pretty standard. I mean, we we do our best to um to be safe and to coordinate with the county and the city on what is the best construction access so that we don't bother folks. And that really I think covers everything that I had written down. I had I was kind of following along. Um Paul, thank you for the responses. There was a couple. So the town homes, are they two stories or three? And then there was a question on I don't expect you to know the density of Trillium Cove. I don't have it. Um I could figure it out, but the density of the town home area of that compared to this. >> Thank you, Casey. Yes. Um it's true. The town homes we built in Trillium Cove are threetory. The town homes we plan to build in Marlo Ridge are twotory. They're they're different. Um I won't go into the details why, but they are different. They look different. They feel different. Um they feel more like a single family home than a town home. and that tends to appeal to a wider variety of people. Um, so they won't be nearly as tall. They'll be the same rough height as a two-story home. And the last question, density, you know, rough napkin type stuff. Uh, densities of the three-story town home might be 10 to 12 units per acre and of this uh two stories town home are more like, uh, seven or eight units per acre. Public hearing is still open. Before I officially close the public hearing, commissioners, are there any lingering thoughts or questions for the applicant? We'll start with Commissioner Nicholson. >> No questions for the applicant. Thank you, Commissioner Smoke. No questions. >> Commissioner Yo, >> no. No questions. >> Commissioner, >> I do have one question. Um, and I just can't tell from the the visual. It's up the the point that was brought up before about the parking for the town homes. Where where will people park when they have guests? I don't unless there's room on the streets, but maybe I just can't tell from the visual. >> Chair U. Planning Commission. Usually when you see a town home neighborhood, they are private streets 24 foot wide. There's not room for parking and there are perpendicular stalls for parking. >> Mhm. >> Um we won't get into the details, but one of your rules policies changed that made us choose to have public streets so that these streets are wide enough to have uh people park on one side of the street. >> I was just going to on to your question if you don't mind. >> No, no, no. >> Um, with the driveways being so close, I don't know of any development that we have where we have 8 to 10 in a row sets of town homes that are four to six units in a in a building, I'll call it. um in our community. I was looking at some trying to find I we've got some where they're in rows of four, they're in rows of sets of four, sets of six buildings, but this run along Carriage Hills is quite extensive. And so with those driveways all coming off and them being so close together, where on the street will there be room for any cars to park? >> We can uh prepare a plan that shows what those are and count them up if that would be helpful. I guess it >> Yeah, the closest one is over off of um uh uh Franklin Trail and 21 and 13 that I could find where there's this set this density like this. Now, those are I think threetory um units over there, but I know they have every on every street there's maybe two to three sets of um bundles of guest parking, a couple parking stalls um two to three kind of paired up at a time. Um but I that's where I was with the parking one. It's con little concerning for me. >> I would be happy to have a conversation with planning and engineering staff to figure out um if we have enough parking, if they want to go to private streets where there is perpendicular parking or if we want to add some perpendicular parking to city streets. There are, you know, three options right there that we could really um talk about and whatever you guys want, we we'd go with. >> Sorry. >> No. No, you're fine. I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, I just heard the comments about obviously there's limited parking across the street for the park and so I'm like, where would people park? Because I had I don't see any space really in between these buildings. You maybe get a couple cars here and there, but yeah, that's the only comment I have. Thank you. >> That's worth a closer look. I agree. >> Yeah, thank you for the good question and response. Casey, off or Nick off hand, do we have any um credible comparables with regard to that that parking concern? Um, I I wasn't prepared for that question. We'd ask. >> Okay, that's fine. It's nothing you guys can look into. I have no questions. Uh, Commissioner Fintomacher, >> I have no other questions either. >> Commissioner Rook, >> no questions. >> All right. I will Thank you. Um, it is 9:07. Um, I'll entertain a motion and a second to close the public hearing at 9:07. Is there a motion? >> So moved. >> We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Commissioners Rook and Tennyson. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. Any opposed? Seeing none, the public hearing is closed. Staff, can we put up the um the the action step, please? All right. So, um we've concluded the public hearing. Uh we'll move to Commissioner comments and then I'll entertain a motion in a second. Commissioner um Nicholson, any lingering questions, comments? Yeah. So my only comment at this point would be uh there were a lot of issues brought up around traffic and safety and I I am not sure that what I saw in the plan really maybe addressed some of those questions some of those issues and living in that area I share some of those uh concerns and see some of the real world impacts. So, I would like to see a little bit of additional work done on the on the traffic studies and the traffic flows. >> Great. Commissioner Smoke, >> I'm going to u kind of piggyback on that too and I think it goes beyond Marlo. We're kind of putting a lot on Marlo and it's a broader problem, but having my family lives down on the Wagen Bridge area. So, I know that the problem today becomes a bigger problem downline. So I feel like this I I feel a responsibility to say we need to do something so that we don't create problems elsewhere and I don't know what that something is but um I kind of echo that. And then the second one and last thing I have is about the wetland area and the basin plan. I'm not a watershed expert but I am a retired engineer and I've looked at a lot of design documents and I'm really very heartened and um I feel very good about the materials I saw. Um, even though I don't know all the details, I think they're very knowledgeable about what they're doing. Um, with this the city staff, I think you guys are on it. I trust that you you're you're going to do it well. Um, based on what I see. So, my gut is telling me that there's a good knowledgeable oversight on that watershed basement. >> Thank you, Commissioner Yo. Yeah, I have some um similar um to my colleagues some concern over the um the combination of the density paired with the safety um and traffic as they all start to overlay on top of one another that I don't know is quite resolved yet to then look at um a plan that is proposing an increase of density that is beyond what our current zoning allows um zoning requirements. And so I think that's where it all kind of starts to come to a head for me with those pieces all over flowing in. And to look at that and look at what's been proposed even for the town home section um with that increased um medium density which is bringing probably the larger volume of density in terms of people to the the um this development. Um, so as those things start to all stack and layer up, that's where my questions um are really lying, I have less concerns over what's being proposed for the single family, the two levels that are um over in that area. Um but um the density issues with that safety and traffic pedestrians. >> So comments will take I want to um toss it to staff again because my study of the notes and your report suggested or reflects that the the units per acre are within and aligned with and comport with the guidelines. Am I wrong? >> Uh you're correct, Commissioner. So the overall density of this development is 3.75 units per acre. That's a low density range of 2.5 to 4. The medium density area is 4.7. The low density is around uh 2.6. So I I understand where the commission is going. I don't think we have an option. This property is already guided for medium density in business park. The planning commission and city council don't have the option of saying this is a low density only amendment. The metropolitan council would not approve that. We're there's a certain floor that has to be hit. Otherwise, we're just going to have to stick with our current guidance and wait for a business park property to come in and develop. >> Can I ask one clarifying question with that? Sure. >> Um the wetland area is a large portion of this and there was a question related to density with that. >> Um when it comes to the guide requirements and met council requirements that has to be included correct >> the wetlands are not included. So the the total acreage of this development is 87.7 roughly. Um it's about 69 net acres with uh the wetland and you know the the county rightaways and things like that excluded. >> So without that in there it's meeting the density requirements as you have laid out. >> Correct. Yep. If the wetland was included we would be 262 units over 87 acres and the the density number would be even lower. >> Thanks for that clarification. Thank you for that, >> Commissioner Tennyson. >> Yeah, I would just say uh first of all, thanks to the city staff for the incredible report and and and and everybody here that's going to give their commentary. It's been very helpful to to kind of hear the feedback and the Verling family for um their feedback and really good to to kind of hear some of the history. I I think for me, you know, this is, you know, I've lived in this community for about 15 years. I've driven by this plot of land for 15 years. Um, you know, I I think that the thing that's hard for me is that losing the 10 acres of business um, use land. However, having that said, hearing the commentary about this is plan M and multiple plans have come before this and it's, you know, 11 years and in the making, you know, at some point we do have to kind of make a decision to move on if we've got other property that we can turn into commercial property. I concur wholeheartedly with the with the with the traffic and and situation. I I'm on that road quite a bit. People are driving way faster than 35 miles an hour. I can I've seen it myself. So, I mean, I do think we need to do something there and think about that a little bit more and appreciate the the feedback on and taking the feedback on the uh the parking with the town homes because I think we've got to figure something out there. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, uh, Commissioner. So, um, I'm going to echo I have a big circle around some of my scribbling here. Um, and I'll just read to you what it says. It says traffic and then I have bullets underneath that. safety, calming, signage, pedestrian impacts, and flow. Right? So, the uh traffic impact study, I did a lot of homework over the weekend, learned more than I care to about, you know, impacts and density and flow and all of those things. Um I'm not prepared to take a full-time job doing that, but um it's really informative. And so where I'm landing is that yes, this has been a long time coming. Um I moved here in 2002 and my realtor at the time said, um, "Are you going to live by the farm?" I said, "What? What are you talking about?" He said, "The Verling property?" So, I mean, the Verling property is is well well renown throughout the Twin Cities, and I'm glad that we're we're moving forward and getting close, but I wouldn't want the traffic issues um to exas exacerbate or perpetuate the broader conditions that are happening, right? And so if there's a way for um the applicant um to work with staff um to and bring back to us in a fairly, you know, timely manner um some optionality, some things that we can look at. Um I'm I'm in full support of of moving this forward, but I think we have to we have to address some of those things that were brought up before. The other my smaller bubble that I wrote was um anticipate challenges and concerns and expedite solutions. That's just my note to myself, right? So, what can we reasonably and timely anticipate? We got a lot of information here. And then how how can we timely execute on some solutions. So, I'm in I'm in support of of what we've seen tonight. Um, and happy to move it on to the council uh once we have um you know addressed some of those hanging chads. Um, just a little bit more. Uh, Commissioner Fence Demacher, >> thank you. I applaud everybody with all the comments. I think it's been mentioned a few different times. This is excellent. This is the way this should work. um very long but that's the way it's supposed to work right so this I love it honestly a lot of comments a lot of discussion back and forth um I come back from a engineering background myself so I have a lot of familiarity when it comes to developments and working with city requirements and whatnot I work in city government for different city when I think about traffic analysis And the models, I know there's some question whether or not models are correct. I agree. There's may be times where models may not be right, but it's the best we have. It allows us to make sure that those models ensure objectivity instead of subjectivity, feelings, making sure that we are approaching this in a manner that is um fair to as many people as we can. I know fair is a a kind of a can be a bad word in some cases, but it's it's objective. That's the best way we can use it. So, I I the traffic I feel like a lot of these concerns are valid. I think it's more so on on everything outside of this development. And I don't know that it's necessarily fair to put it on this development. That's the gist of it. Now, being in Minnesota and knowing all of our requirements, storm water is one of the best things out of this because of what Minnesota has and we do have some really good requirements in place. I think that's the most positive thing that comes out of this development is the improvements to the wetland. It is phenomenal. That's a great asset to come out of this development. The other thing with tree replacement, um, knowing prior lakes requirements and knowing some of the neighboring communities and other developers or the other developments, other communities in the metro, we have one of the best. I've always known that. I sure hope it still is the case. It was always marked as the prime model. we got the best out of this is what I I I've always trust our tree replacement and policy when it comes to that. So that's a great thing too. Um when it comes to the other benefits coming out of this Fountain Hills is is definitely one of the biggest ones as well. This opens up a lot of commercial industrial that is prime. This is going to be really beneficial for our community to get that commercial going. And yes, we're losing 10 acres, but I feel like if we were to carve out that section, as as Casey's already mentioned, who knows if that ever will build because it's so hard to build when it comes to the the um elevation requirements there. So, it's kind of sucks to lose 10 acres, but yet it's it's important to get something moving so that we can get additional commercial and reduce the tax burden on our community. So all those pieces I do have one thing that's still hang up to me. It's the parking and I think it was already recognized as there's probably some additional information going come back to recognize what kind of parking requirements or impacts there may be so we can make sure that that's not going to spill out. That's that's the main thing main concern I have at this point. So, >> thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Rook, >> obviously, as stated, a lot of work done by staff. Appreciate all of the comments from the public. Um, ultimately, we we have a long storyried piece of property that's been in the area for a very long time. Um, and a developer who's been willing to buy it, willing to develop it. Uh I think we need to be grounded in maybe what the ask is of us which is ultimately the amendment of the use map, the amendment of the zoning map, the easement vacation and the preliminary planned unit development. Um I think we can all appreciate that safety and traffic um are of the utmost importance. Um and I think we need to um likely reflect on what the right venue is for um probably for that discussion. But again, thank you to all those involved that have provided, I think, um, uh, a litany of information on this topic. >> Um, maybe it's because it's 9:21. Um, but I I feel like we should have a little bit more conversation. I'm wondering just I need everyone's help up here. Um, just to kind of settle things in in my mind. Um, is it is it is it prudent and reasonable to uh consider a motion in a second on items or sub items 1, two, three, and four. Break those out. But on number five, the preliminary plat um for Malo Ridge second edition condition upon developer addressing staff comments. Um, is it prudent to entertain a motion to second on items one through four and either condition approval or table sub item number five until we have additional feedback from um the outcome of the next conversation between staff and the developer. Anybody want to just share your thoughts? >> Yeah, I'm I'm kind of with Commissioner Rook. Is this the right venue to talk about broader traffic issues? I mean, whether it was that if even if we got the the PUD just perfect and we addressed we came up with this magical solution that affected that everyone was good with, we'd still have cars. And so, I don't think the traffic problem's going away. And and I I'm going to echo Commissioner Rook, right? Is the right venue because I think it's a broader problem. And I don't know that it really belongs on this developer whether we even if we got it perfect we'd still have this issue with us. >> Um I don't know that if it's our place to solve a bigger broader traffic problem. >> I would I I'll take a response and Nick can chime in. So I agree. Um you know what I'm hearing is we're concerned with traffic. We need to address that. Well this is the intersection of a county highway. We as city can't go to Scott County even if we've got it funded and say we're putting in an intersection. Um I don't know any changes that could be made to this development to significantly change the traffic forecasts or the projections if if they lost 15 or 20 units um which you know may be the max. So we need this development our land use plan includes medium density it includes low density um it includes business office park. The mech council will likely be supportive of losing business office park for a medium density, but my gut says we're on the border. This is not a very dense neighborhood, even though it's more dense than we've done in the past. Um, if units start going away, um, it's pretty likely that Met Council would not approve it even if it got through our planning commission and city council. So, I'm not sure. I I understand the planning commission comments. But very thoughtful comments, you know, especially in response to to hearing them from the public, but I don't know how we solve a safety issue at the intersections with this development. >> Other commissioner comments. Thank you, Casey. Commissioner Tennyson. >> Uh well, and yeah, thank you for that. I I think what about the pedestrian lights on Carriage Hills or more parking? I mean, is that, you know, something that we could consider? I mean, I I the parking obviously is separate from the the pedestrian lights, but I I do like the suggestion of pedestrian lights to help maybe slow down traffic. >> When you say pedestrian lights, you mean a crossing? >> Crossing with actual lights and then the lights turn on. >> Yep. >> Um >> that's something again. We need data to drive that decision. We just >> we don't like to just throw them in to throw them in. Um, I think something that would be more pertinent and beneficial would be a may possibly a permanent speed feedback sign along that stretch. That's always there reading your speed. I think that would have more impact than a flashing crossing um to start. But that's just a thought and something we would have to discuss. >> Well, the speed does change. It's 30 at one point and 35 at another. So there is a little ambiguity. I've traveled it from 21 to Sand Point and I know that the the the cars that go there, a lot of boat traffic and it it does get confusing. Is that something within the city's control to get some consistency or at least some permanent view of uh a a good speed limit? >> So speed limits are an interesting thing. Um we have, like you mentioned, we have two parts of Carriage Hills Road. We have I'm going to say the east of the roundabout with the driveways that directly access Carriage Hills. That's a statutory is 30 mph street. Everything west of the roundabout is 35 miles an hour and it has no driveways. The city cannot simply assign a speed limit to a street um outside of a statutory 30 mph street or a 55 mph street. Um what has to happen is MDOT has to conduct a speed study um which will take probably 18 months just knowing how backed up they are on that and then they will assign a street or a speed to that street. Now if we want it to be say we wanted it to be I don't know 30 um I'm assuming the 35 has been assigned by MDOT that could go in that could tip in the other direction. They could say it's going to be a 40 mph street and you can't do anything about it. So it can go one way or the other when MDOT's involved and they're assigning a street speed limit. >> So within this development, I think the one outstanding item that is addressed or it excuse me, it's not outside of the realm of this development is especially the parking for the town home portion of the community. I think that's one concern that has been raised by multiple individuals that is not I don't know that it's able to be addressed and with what I've seen come in front of my eyes thus far. I think there has to be a another pass at that. >> Casey, would it be Thank Thank you, Commissioner. Are you done? >> You're okay. Um, is it prudent and reasonable to con so to say as a condition uh that the developer um and staff will exhaust all exploration to address parking issue. Um you could certainly do that commissioner or I mean keep in mind that the phase one so the that's the overall PUD plan. Yeah. >> But the phase one plat is just the 44 lots on the south side which only includes I think >> two or three of the town home unit building I think three buildings. >> Okay. Um, so the majority of that the planning commission could make a condition to address on street parking for the remainder prior to submitting any, you know, preliminary or final or off, excuse me, final plat applications for those units as well. >> Yeah. Uh, commissioners, how does that sound to all of you? >> Sounds good. Okay, I think that's what we want to do. Okay, I'm going to at 9:29. Um, and the reason I'm not tired tonight, I was very tired two weeks ago. I had a great strong coffee earlier this evening, so I'm still ready to go. Um, so I I'll entertain a motion and a second uh that we recommend the city council approval of Sub one, an amendment to the 2040 city of Prior Lake future loose future land use map. Sub two, an amendment to the official zoning map. Sub three, the easement vacation. Sub4, a preliminary planned unit development PUD plan for development to be known as Marlo Ridge. and sub five, a preliminary plat for Marlo Ridge, second edition, conditioned upon the developer addressing this particular staff comment regarding parking in phase one per um uh director McCabe's suggestion. Is there a motion? So moved. May >> may I add one and the staff comments that are in the May 19th 26 >> memorandum. Of course we have a motion is and a comment. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. All those in favor please signify by saying I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Motion carries. Does anyone need a bio break? >> No, we're good. Okay, let's move on to our next agenda item 5A. This is old business 17031 Sunset Avenue Northwest. This was a variance. Turn it over to staff. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the commission. Um, as you'll remember from our last meeting, we were introduced to a variance request for 17031 Sunset Avenue Northwest. Applicant Ryan Bigot was requesting a variance to allow a 3.11% increase over the maximum 30% impervious surface for the construction of a new single family home. Um, you provided direction that you'd like to see some more reductions. Uh, so we ended up tableabling that request at the meeting. state statute gives us a maximum of 60 days to act uh either approve or deny a variance request. Um that 60-day deadline was coming up on June 13th. This was the last meeting in between. Um so we had prepared a resolution of denial since we had not heard or seen any revisions from the applicant. Um, Friday after work, we did receive a waiver, a signed waiver from the applicant extending that by an additional 60 days to um, August 12th, 2026. >> So, we are planning on bringing that back. We'd recommend you table it here tonight. >> So, no action tonight from us. >> Just a motion and a second to continue the tabled item to a future meeting >> to extend it. Great. >> Um, I'll entertain a motion based on staff's comments. I'll entertain a motion in a second to um extend this item >> um to the date before mentioned in August. >> So move. >> We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I. >> I. I. Any opposed? >> Okay, that motion carries. We'll move on to item 5B. This is 4646 Lord Street Northeast. I understand um from the commentary and the narrative in the report that significant progress was made on this. So, we'll turn it over to staff for your comments. >> Chair chair and commission. Thank you very much. Um tonight we have a continuation of the discussion that we had um from the previous uh meeting on 4646 Lord Street. Again, this is a request for a variance and uh just to outline quickly, the request has changed since previous. Um the applicant and we'll go just quickly over the some details here as well. Um so we can remember what happened from last time. The applicant Todd and Molly Phillips are requesting a variance this time for a rear yard variance to remove an existing home and garage and driveway for a new home. Uh the request now has been amended so that it's just the um rear yard setback and it's been modified so that the request is for 40.27 ft as opposed to the original 36.5. Uh again on May 18th the planning commission met and had a hearing that was uh tabled and uh continued for the next meeting which is today. The planning commission directed the applicant to make changes to reduce the variance request. Again, this is located on uh Lord Street on the peninsula that's uh jets out into Lord Prior Lake. A quick review of what was and what is now being pro proposed. Um again, this is on a lot that is considered um by our code to be substandard for the design specifications. Um currently the home sits with a 33 foot um rear yard setback as provided by a variance. Um one of the things we look at and it's really important for us to pay attention to is impervious surface. Um it's one of our keystones and again this particular one looks to reduce that impervious surface. Um originally 29.7 now it's down to 29.6 which is an improvement from even last time. The front yard setback was originally um requested at 21.67. It's now being updated to 25 ft. So no request is now being made. The rear setback again the requirement is 50 ft based off of averaging. Previously it was 36.5. Um then now updated request is for 40.27. 27. Again, this is what it looks like uh graphically in the rear yard. Again, it's been pushed back um to the 40.27. And again, no front yard required. Looking at some of the impervious surface requirements, the home um has come down in size a bit. Again, some of this is doing with the arrangement of how the rear portion of the home sits and some of the design choices that the applicant has made. In addition, the um front of the home has been realigned so that the kind of bent neck kind of jet out has now been consolidated and brought further towards um the home main home area. This has um uh included a little bit larger driveway in order to make that extension so you can make the turn. Um but overall the site has gone down. And again, there were some questions about elevations. Um, from the front we measure from the from a building standpoint, we measure from the midpoint of truss. From the front elevation to midpoint of truss, it's 21.5 ft. And just for reference, that's 35 foot max is allowed. From the rear, it's 29.3 ft midpoint of truss. Um, again, 35 is max. Um, the again to go over quickly what the variance criteria is. It only shall be permitted when in harmony with the general purpose of the code when it's consistent with the comprehensive plan. Um it can only be granted if there is a practical difficulty with the land um in granting the variance and that that particular issue is not created by the land owner and the economic um considerations are not a practical difficulty. So analysis on this new proposal is that the overall impervious surface percentage is decreasing and um the rear request is less than what it was both now and what it was proposed before. Again, this is a um first form main living with a walk out. Um it's uh considered substandard as defined by our code. It was not this particular condition is not created by the applicant and similar to conditions found in the east staff. Based off this analysis, staff believes there are diff practical difficulties with this particular um piece of land and that this area is predates platting in this area. So this would not normally be approved as a lot um in today's standards. They are both decreasing previous surface while also improving the site conditions. Um we have prepared a resolution of approval. Um again if you find there is a practical difficulty in the motion a second to approve the variance is requested and if not then a vote of uh denial or denial should be proposed and then we'll bring back a resolution for you. Um with that being said we do recommend an approval for 9.27 ft of variance from the high water. They are required to submit an asbuilt survey um that shall be recorded and then all building permits shall be attained before commencement of construction. And we also have the applicant here today. We've already had our hearing, so it would just be a update and a decision by the commission. Thank you. >> Thank you, Paul. Commissioner Rook, any questions or comments? >> I think the only comment is appears um the applicant um made a best effort here to get this as close to um what we think should be a resolution. Um, and I think in uh a couple of the neighbors uh wrote their letters of support as well for the proposed property. Um, which I would be in support of as well. >> Thank you, Commissioner Fenceer. >> I too uh thank you for making some adjustments and getting it set back a little bit further and I I still agree that the pvious is the king here. So I I really slight change even better. It's I I love it. So, thank you. >> Thank you. I too will be supporting um the staff recommendation and just want to echo uh the thanks for diligently and timely working with staff and moving things things along. Uh Commissioner Tennyson. >> Yeah, I appreciate the adjustments. I plan to support the >> and Commissioner. >> No comments. With that, I'll entertain uh actually I want to hear from everyone. Commissioner Schmuckle. >> Yeah, I agree. I appreciate the adjustments. Thank you, >> Commissioner Nicholson. >> Echo previous comments. Great. >> With that, I'll entertain a motion, a second to approve um the state variance at 4646 Lord Street Northeast, subject to the listed uh conditions. >> So, move. >> We have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Um, Commissioners Finston and Tennyson. All those in favor, please signify by saying, "I." >> I. >> I. Any opposed? >> The motion carries. All right. We'll move to new business. This is a plan unit development waiver uh for 4540 uh XXX and XXX Tower Street. Turn it over to staff. Thank you, chair and commissioners. So, what we have before you this evening is a request from Roars Companies to authorize staff to accept and process a planned unit development application. So, Prior Lake City Code details the planned unit development uh criteria and application processes and it requires a PUD to be 10 acres or more in total contiguous area or the planning commission can grant a waiver from that and accept a PUD of less. But as staff, we cannot administratively accept a a PUD under 10 acres without planning commission approval. The site in question is um actually I should go up to this site here. uh located just south of Tower Street off of Highway 13. So to the north is the London Berley's strip mall. Uh the post office just immediately north there's some multifamily residential to the east, single family to the south. Um the concept plan. Now I want to stress that this is a concept only plan. We have not from a staff level or from the developer landed on a preferred concept or something that we think uh works. Um the developer has provided multiple revisions based on staff comments. This is probably version six or seven. Um they're trying, you know, from their interest to maximize the site. Uh from the city, we're trying to, you know, create as lessen as much impact on the adjacent properties as we can. Uh the site is a little unique in that it's it's low, but it slopes down to the west. So the developer was running into issues with the the building walls being fairly tall on the western part of the property but not the eastern uh kind of the same as as the rear that's adjacent to the residential. So um we're trying to find that good balance mix of between a three and a fourstory building to to find a great product that works for the applicant but also does not have a a significant negative impact on the neighborhood. Um the property has two different land use guidances. We just talked about it and I understand we said we haven't done this in 15 years, but this request would also be reguing and reszoning of a of a commercial property. Um they're proposing underground parking roughly two stalls per unit. Uh it'll be in that area. So the left side of the screen is the current 2040 land use plan showing the subject property highlighted here. Uh the western two parcels which are under contract and under owned by a different entity are uh general retail general business and then where the school district office building is is actually guided for highdensity residential. What they would be requesting is reguiding the future land use plan to identify the ever all of the property as urban high density residential and then you see there is low density to the south. Uh similar request for zoning. Currently this brown on the left side of your screen is high density. This is general commercial C2. They would are asking to reszone everything to R3 with a PUD overlay to do the multifamily project. A few exhibits of scaling. Uh we won't get into this too much, but you can see um the south elevation. And so this would be like you're looking from the adjacent residential properties to the south where they've got a a three-story building height on this fourtory here, but you can see the pretty significant slope uh the grade change there. So again, our minimum PUB requirements require a 10acre or greater site, but it allows the planning commission to grant an exception. Some of the exception criteria for the 10acre requirement is to submit a concept plan. Uh the planning commission can decide based on the criteria whether to authorize staff to accept the application. So basically you would be telling staff yes you can take an application or no you cannot. Um the pro proposed project will meet other criteria for the planned unit development. They are not able to assemble 10 acres so they can't meet that requirement. Um, okay. So, the uh Sorry, it's been a long night. The the PUD requested zoning ordinance modifications and the potential public benefits aren't known. So, at some point in the future, if this is approved, we'll bring in a PUD application saying developer is requesting X, Y, and Z, and in exchange, here's the public benefits that they're proposing. uh we're not at that point yet to have that information. And then uh also the the planning commission tonight is encouraged if you have any high level thoughts on the concept plan. It they're not binding comments. This is not a public hearing, but if you have any anything off the cuff that you want to share with the developer, now would be a good time. So you're not approving a plan, you're not approving a concept plan. Um all you're doing is authorizing staff to accept the application. If you have any comments on the concept plan, please share. Uh we as staff are in support of this request because the developer cannot assemble 10 or more acres. And then if approved, this would be brought back to you on a formal PUB public hearing package. So with that, I'd be happy to take any questions. >> Thanks, Casey. I'll I'll start off. Um I think the only two wonderings I have not concerns uh wonderings would be just um wanting us to be really really thoughtful and deliberative. Um given the previous conversation, you know, visav um commercial development versus residential. That would be my first wondering. Um and then uh the other one would be you know what what optionalities or options are there for trading off um u again the the use right where else can could we make up for that potential loss of commercial and then um I'm not sure how I feel in this moment right now at 9:46 at night about four levels versus three. So I would I would um I would be in support of you know uh encouraging you all to take the application to explore that implications of that um the four versus three or the three versus four vice versa on the elevation. So those are my thoughts. Um Commissioner Nicholson, >> yeah I think the four versus three uh And a couple of the other thoughts that I have are, and I'm not as familiar with this area. I know it generally, but is it seems like is this going to stick out like a sore thumb? I mean, that's the first thing that jumps out at me. >> Um, Commissioner, I wouldn't say so. So, I mean, it's definitely going to be a change. The school district office is um probably it's a one story or maybe a story and a half. The site does sit low. If you drive by the residential homes to the south probably sit about 10 feet higher, but on the east side of um Toronto there is several multifamily buildings in that area. So it would it would blend in in that way. >> Okay. Thank you. No other questions. Commissioner Smokeok. >> Yeah, I guess just the loss of more commercial opportunity, particularly an area where we already have some established commercial opportunity. Um, but if it hasn't had any nibbles, you know, you have to find some ways to uh make use of the land. Um, I haven't thought about the the height of the buildings when I look at it from the post office side, but I can understand that the folks behind might have other sentiments there. and you're you're budding high density next to single family. That's probably going to create some challenges uh with acceptance. Um but yeah, I guess the main question is do we, you know, sometimes when you wait, you g gain something a little bit later. Um I know that this building was just recently decommissioned. If we were to wait, would we have be able to capture a commercial entity? That's kind of where my question is speculatively. >> Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Euro, >> um, what's the height of the apartment building to the east on Toronto? >> Um, I believe it's a threetory. I don't know the height off hand. >> And it would be I'd have to check the plans if it's measured to >> that's got three stories and is parking underneath. If I recall correctly, there's like a garage door. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> I'm not sure if the roof is pitched or not. >> It is. >> Okay. I can see it in my mind, but I just for comparative that would help me understand the like is this going to stick out if I could know what that is. And then um has there been any exploration um with the apartment are these apartments going in? I assume condos apartments >> uh there would be proposed as market rate rental apartments >> rental apartments. Um, was there any exploration to do a mixeduse space of that building to still hold a level of commercial here in our downtown? Uh, not really downtown, I guess, but the other side of town um, uh, commercial district. Um, because I just there'd be a I think an opportunity there to maybe hold on to some of that commercial if there was more of a podium approach to the the residential development to then have a um, combination Yep. Uh we did have those conversations and the applicant considered it. I don't know what level they considered it. Ultimately, they're not interested in commercial. They don't feel it would be very successful just because there's not great highway visibility in this area for retail. Um but it it was discussed and they did look at it. They're not interested in pursuing it. >> What would the zoning be for something like that? Um, for that zoning to work, it would likely be a PUB overlay district, which is probably what they would pursue anyway with the R3 district. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Commissioner Tennyson. >> Yeah, I would say similar. I was funny. I was going to say the mixeduse question, too, but I was wondering, it's a little far back, but the the the two lots that are um to the left of the the district office, are have those been for sale for some period of time, and they just haven't sold? Is that the story? Correct. Yeah. I'm not sure how aggressively they were being marketed, but I know they've been for sale for five or six years. >> Sure. Yeah. Because I I kind of concur of like that district office just I mean is just vacating. I mean I just I hate to give up more business land. It's just it's hard. So thanks >> Commissioner Not really gonna have any other further comments, but mixed use. I had the same question. Commercial, same question. I want to see as much as we can keep, but I'm also curious to know what we can gain out of this. So, um, my one question I guess you could answer more is I said right away for Toronto. Is there a need in Toronto? I I don't claim to be OCD at all, but I do notice that Toronto goes skews a little bit right there. Um not that it bothers me at all, but is that why there's some need for >> Sorry. Um yes, there good eye. So, um, right now Toronto is within an easement on the school district property, but if this project were to move forward, they would dedicate necessary rightway. So, it would become public rightway. There would be no plans to move or relocate Toronto, but it would it would just be located in right public rightway, not an easement. >> It'd be more so set up for maybe a reconstruction would fix whatever is there. Is that is that the purpose of it? >> Correct. And the right now I know the the trails on that area are right up on the back of you know on the back of curb where with the redevelopment we would want to create a green space and separate the trails from the streets both north and and east and we would look at all of those types of things. >> Thank you Commissioner Rook echo the sentiments that we heard already. I think the only additional comment would be obviously half this half this plot is already high density um residential recognizing we're we're just uh the ask is to capture the other half. Um so I would agree we'd like some more space for commercial and um but given that this has largely been unused um obviously I do think it actually fits with some of the neighboring multif family that's uh adjacent to and Kitty Corner from this. >> Thank you. Well, I'll entertain a motion and a second to um allow city staff to accept and process an application for preliminary PO PUD review. Is there a motion? So, >> we have a motion. Is there a second? >> Second. >> A motion and a second. Commissioners Rook and Fence Democker. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed? >> Nay. >> Nay. >> So, the motion carries 32. >> Thank you, commissioners. Um, next agenda item says adjournment, but um, I wanted to give um, Casey an opportunity to to lift up formally just a brief conversation he and I had last week. Um, we invited um, Jason Woodell, city manager, too, and that was just wondering about um, uh, scheduling a planning commission working session just to get caught up on some things. We had sort of talked about inviting folks from the watershed district to come and join us too. Gives us a chance to talk about some of the items that we have approved some of the things that are coming up. Sort of tighten up any priorities or protocols uh that would help us do our work better. And in the case I I think you mentioned you were going to cook dinner for us that night. >> I can Yeah. >> For dinner. So see if the credit card works. >> You want Why don't you go ahead and >> Yeah, I think you you covered it very well, Commissioner. So, the idea would be to to find a work session, but not necessarily before or after a planning commission meeting. So, we'll I'll send out some dates. I want to coordinate with the watershed district a little bit more to make sure dates work for them. Um, if you have anything in the meantime that you think would be a good topic for the planning commission work session, feel free to send that my way. And then the next few days, you'll get an email from me with a few dates and options to see what works for everybody. Um, one additional announcement is we are not right now currently planning to have a meeting on June 15th. We won't officially cancel that unless, you know, to allow if something comes in last minute, but we'll send a formal cancellation likely later this week for that. >> Before we go, I want to just looking at the time, I want to make sure I thank Casey, Paul, Jake, Nick, and Sandy for being here and our City Council Lee is on as well, too. >> Same for the commissioners. Thank you. That was a long night. You We appreciate it. >> Sure. So, I'll entertain a motion and a second to adjurnn at 9:56 p.m. Is there a motion? >> So, moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Have a motion and a second. All those in favor, please signify by saying I. >> I opposed. >> We are journed. Thank you.