[Music] Scott County providing safe healthy and livable [Music] communities to item number five on our agenda which is SC County delivers and today we're going to learn um more about the status of our specialty courts so uh Jake I think you're going to kick it off for us today correct I am much M Commissioners this is our annual conversation on specialty courts something we committed to doing since we uh launched and established the adult treatment Court back in 2016 two highlevel kind of issues or themes that you're going to hear about one is the implementation of the First Judicial veterans treatment Court um a lot of work that went into that over the last year or so and then um the decline in referrals to the adult treatment Court you see that in the packet I hope we have some conversation about that and then the other data that's in the packet as well we'll dive into I'll have the facilitators introduce ourselves then we'll just keep going around have the panel introduce yourselves and then we'll kick things off I'm Jake bruing transformation Enterprise Services director with the county Brad Davis director of planning and Resource Management uh Jennifer Schultz Library director Carrie M economic assistance director uh Samantha Hammond treatment Court probation officer uh Laura stay bets Court probation officer Margaret Newman CL social worker at the Minneapolis VA Medical Center I'm Dr Jennifer Schult I'm the psychologist on the treatment Court team Stephanie menning County assistant County attorney I sit on both the First Judicial District Veterans Court team and then also the treatment Court team Aon Osborn coordinator for both vets court and treatment court with Scott County I'm K Lennon I'm one of the judges here in Scott County I'm the chief of the district right now so oversaw The Joint veterans Port um that we appreciate the cooperation of our County being part of and I'm also one of the assigned current uh drug treatment Court judges thank you very much thank you judge Lon for being here today thank you Margaret uh for being a guest here with us as well Jen would you ask the first question absolutely so um well let's just start with um one of the themes that Jake pointed out um in his introduction um page 11 I think it is um takes a look at participation in treatment Court um and so I don't know again I'm not really directing this at anybody but whoever would like to jump in if we could just talk a little bit about the um kind of the study decline in referrals and current participation in treatment Court um you know clearly I think it's pretty clear like in in the co you you know started out pretty strong with participants and then Co but there really hasn't been a rebound at least it appears from this grant or from this graph since Co so I just was wondering if anybody would like to just kick us off talk a little about a little bit about that factors contributing to that from your perspectives and kind of where you're hoping to um address that or where this is kind of moving sure and I'll start by addressing that one um I think when we comparing when we're comparing numbers from last year I believe we had around 21 total referrals to treatment Court in 2023 at this point in time I believe we've had about 14 referrals so slightly uh fewer referals compared to last year granted we still have another couple of months to go um overall we've had I believe just the one accepted uh referral so far in 2024 um we have admitted that person um we have one other that has been accepted but um there's been some miscommunication or lack of communication with their defense attorney um and then we also have one pending that actually uh for me is somewhat hopeful um with some new practices that we're implementing um and as far as where that's coming from I think it's it's hard to nail down exactly one specific place or one specific thing that we can point to um I think as far as what we're doing to address it um we're looking at you know being more proactive in our Outreach we are um talking to referrals or or potential referrals second they come into custody now so one of the things that we recently implemented was a quick screen at the jail um so when a uh defendant is taken into custody and our office does a bail screen one of the things they also do are checking to see if they're eligible for our vets court and treatment Court are they a resident of the county um or of the First Judicial District for vets court or are they excuse me or do they have a substance motivated offense or a uh cohering mental health disorder as well um I think we are doing a great job of doing Outreach with our law enforcement Partners um recently we've spoken with both Savage Police Department as well as Prior Lake Police Department um just doing efforts to educate and continue those relationships um I think a large number of referrals can be coming from law enforcement they are the ones that making the initial contact um they are also the ones that you know when they bring people into custody they can be reaching out to me letting me know um or any of our team know that you know this person is someone we've run into multiple times I think they'd be a great fit um so we've been doing a good job just reestablishing and and continuing those relationships um I think some other things we're looking at in the future is expanding potentially our eligibility criteria and the Very is taking another look at that and seeing you know what populations aren't we capturing right now that that we very well could be in the future um and that could be anything from you know are the offenses that we're capturing are those all um or could we be getting more of those uh expanded um are we actually um offering you know when we look at also some of the the client analys which is some of the reason why some of these referrals aren't moving through are we offering a program that U meets the needs and of every person that that wants to come in um so those are some of the things we're looking to address potentially in the future is that actually when you had said um the number of referrals I think you said 21 and 21 and 23 and 14 already in 2024 um could you just talk a little bit more about what are are is it offense related why they're not qualifying is it motivation I mean is there specific reasons why they're not qualifying for the program sure so when we have so a large number of the communication that I receive initially um is in regards to defendants that are not eligible simply due to residency a large number of people coming across my desk is that's kind of the main reason um for some of these others that I'm digging into and I actually get the chance to meet with them um the reasons that they're for client denials might be that know maybe they have a potential so we we offer a favorable disposition in return for our program maybe they believe that they could receive something even better um by you know going to trial um then there's also I believe we've had two count attorney denials um and that be for a variety of reasons typically that's for Public Safety issues um but yeah I think the residency piece has been a large part of what we've seen recently thank you so I have a question regarding um the the new arrangement for the Vets Court could you talk a little bit um about how you're ensuring kind of consistency and continuity between the west side and the east side yeah sure of course so you know this is actually a topic that we make sure to address right from the Geto we wanted to make sure that we're all operating under the same policy procedure and we're all interpreting the same way and we're applying it the same way so that we can ensure uh Equitable and fair process for all of our participants in east and west um so some of the things we're doing to ensure that is uh myself and my co-coordinator on the east side ktie Shelt um we have bi-weekly meetings to ensure that we're both uh again interpreting policy correctly that we're dealing with this ISU similarly in both sides um she also recently accompanied me to a national conference for coordinators um so we were both able to attend that together um discuss a lot of the topics at length and uh make sure again that we're kind of understanding similarly kind of what is being presented at that scenario um her and I continue regular email contact uh we have a monthly Mentor coordinator meeting where the coordinator excuse me the mentor coordinators that uh supervise our Mentor programs um we all get together to make sure that those are staying on task and and kind of addressing things similarly on both ends there we have quarterly large group meetings between the east and west where we come together address any large topic issues um goals to do continuing education in those meetings as well moving forward um we have our next one scheduled for November 13th we do occasional observation of each other's courts so Katie and I my so my co-coordinator and I will uh on occasion going observe each other's courts we've done that once already um and we plan to continue to do that as well in the future um both of our judges uh judge uh man and judge O'Brien uh made Ure regular contact between them um Margaret Newman our vgo with the team uh actually sits on both teams and is able to be a great source of uh information and coordination on both teams um and then um as far as continuing education for the team that's something we plan to uh Implement and maintain outside of that just to make sure that we're all staying updated on the newest best practices um and then also for any new members that are coming on to our team ensuring that they have similar or the the same trainings coming in Margaret could you just as a follow up to that um could you give us a sense of what your role is and what that coordin looks like with the folks you're working with sure so I'm kind of a liaison between treatment and the judicial system or the court system so my role is to do a clinical assessment with everyone that comes into the program just kind of understand what their treatment needs are um so kind of a full picture chemical health mental health housing financial needs um and then plug them into those Services as needed um so a lot of care coordination with other VA providers making sure they're getting the right therapy the right Addiction Services um following them throughout the course of the program if they relapse or if they struggle with their mental health making sure that they're getting those Services as they as they need them thank you yeah I have a question on page six this is data that shows um reism um whether a person graduated from the program or was terminated and um I'm guessing that this is a an important data point for this group to follow to see if treatment cor treatment court is having the outcomes that you're intending what is this data telling you is this showing is this data telling you that um things are working or uh not working or what's been that your team's observations on this data point yeah I I mean from my point of view um I'm interpreting the data to show us that we're having a positive outcome overall and one of the things that with this particular uh graph and this set of data is that um you are potentially capturing I believe uh the same people multiple years so the some overlap some overlap occurs there as well um I think I remember the percentages that we're hitting are within or above uh some of the national averages for sism um so we're hitting some of those points um and I think we're always continuing to try to do better as well I think there's another point there to be made though I had recent contact with a graduate who had done very well from our program and she said no your criminal conduct but she realized and I think we know that recovery is a lifelong process for many people but the difference is is that this time when she relapsed she didn't spiral out of control and go back to all the problems she was able to immediately identify what was happening seek help and stop the stop the madness you know stop the spiral and I think we have to remember that what we're doing is we're teaching people to live their lifetime in recovery and so our goal is that people don't fall all the way back down the mountain that they get caught that that they may have a stumble but they're able to continue their lives productively without going completely control I think that's a really important measure because we really have to be realistic about what it is for people to live in recovery thank you judge Lon that that's helpful I think for probably all everybody in the room to articulate that that Gap in the the story that this data tells for folks on that side of the table is there is there a way in your mind that we could capture that that we could quantify that this the story is really important but is there some data that we could be gathering in addition to was there another crime committed when somebody relapses is there is there some data we can gather that would help illustrate that story we don't necessarily know because it's not our business anymore right they don't have to tell us that it happened to be a person that that reached out to me um but yeah I don't know how we would I think I can speak to I think we've talked a a little bit about looking at quality of life types of measurements and trying to see if that's something that we can incorporate and it would be tricky again to get the people after they've graduated but even within the program from kind of start to finish what we see change wise that way so there are some measures out there that we have looked at considered just trying to figure out implementation wise how that might work best so that's certainly on the table too yeah because I think um page seven maybe shows some of that life Factor um before and after maybe what are getting at Dr schul um but yeah interesting are are most folks when they're done with treatment then um Court off probation and out of the system completely so it would be hard to continue to track some of those life factors after graduation or some of them do they remain on probation and there's an opportunity to continue just like the I think there's another graph that shows kind of reism longer term one year two year three year um but is there an opportunity for that life Factor post um so again not knowing exactly how the if folks are leaving off probation completely when they're done with treatment they graduate and they're like out of the system or is there some opportunity to follow them I think the the answer is it depends right so it depends on the level of offense that the person comes in on for veterans court they could come in anything from a misdemeanor to a felony and the level of the offense dictates how long they're on supervision for um and then also the offense in question could also dictate whether or not they're looking at a discharge immediately after completion um for some of the higher level more um higher level of offenses we're looking at potentially continuing them on after completion of the program for treatment Court especially we have I believe a 180 day up to 180 day review and typically we're looking at a potential discharge at that point um and then yeah we wouldn't be continuing to follow a lot of those data points after the fact um I I think yeah we've kind of hit the nail head right it's hard to gather that data without them self-reporting um I've done some looking into you know what are some VAR studies that are out there that maybe indicate different numbers for averages around the the nation and it's it's hard for them to capture that we do learn really amazing things though about our graduates when they come back for those reviews uh yesterday we had 180-day review so the participant had graduated from treatment court and was back for his final review and we were able to have him speak to the fact that he's now a a partial business owner and uh Dr Schultz even commented afterwards to see the transformation in so many different areas of his life uh he was living in such dysfunction when he entered the program and to have him shaking everybody's hands on the way out as a um as a business owner was really remarkable we've had other participants come in during their review hearings and they've purchased a home and they now have extended family members living with them those are really difficult things to quantify but we know that the program I think is a multiplier right it doesn't just impact the life of the person who's graduated it impacts relationships it impacts the community because now they're out there um proactively contributing to the community by being a business owner by being a homeowner by being a taxpayer because they're employed not for cash jobs anymore um and those are difficult things to put down on a graph but they really speak to the success of the program and one of the things that we've actually looked at implementing in the future is a potential alumni program where we could have some of our graduates come in um where we could maintain a relationship with them and and potentially uh be a continue to be a positive impact on them but also allow them the opportunity to be a positive impact on us and our current participants as well so that's something that we're hoping to look at in the future so Samantha and Laura I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about like what your role is in the program and how you work with the participants and maybe some of the challenges you face okay so um as a probation officer we well we have different roles but I meet with them depending on where they're at in the program once a week to once a month and that's in the office or in their home um I work with Margaret based off of like their treatment needs and just kind of case manage like what that looks like um they typically drug test twice a week so we monitor that um weekly daily depending on what they need um and just have sometimes daily contact with them sometimes weekly contact with them it really depends on what the participant needs in that moment um and then we just kind of work with them at that time um my clients um particularly they just experience a lot of trauma so they're just kind of more High need so I work with them a lot more closely um and it's a lot of more mental health um or like um I think we have a lot of domestics so it's a lot more like anger management type of clients that you know making sure they're going to those type of programming and just hitting all those appointments that they're supposed to be at I think M clients are obviously more substance use based so um me visiting them in treatment centers um while they're going to residential or outpatient um and I think one of some of the challenges that we Face are um lack of Housing and and transportation coming to you know our our meetings and being able to see them regularly on page three of The Narrative there's a a note on uh future potential future activities want to be more proactive in Outreach to Community Partners and organizations and I'm wondering two things one what you're hoping to achieve with that what are you looking for from those Community Partners and organizations and then is there something you would ask of the people in the room today to to help with that sure so as I spoke about a little bit earlier as well one of those Community Partners is law enforcement so we've been going out to speak with them uh again a lot of it is education um we're looking for for for some Partners it's a source of referrals anyone can send me a referral for any if they're involved so um the more people that know about the program the more opportunity there is for us to receive referrals and for us to help more people that's a large part of it but also just to educate the community in general um my hope is to provide various promotional material to different um organizations that might be interested in supporting our program um or at the very least um sharing this with various members that might have an interest in our program and I think that by doing so we provide commun members opportunity to again be educated in what we do but also to potentially contribute themselves um and that might be with various family members or friends that maybe they're they're loved ones are involved in our program or maybe they're just in recovery themselves um I think more education in in this matter is is always better um as far as um I'm sorry what was the second part of that question is there something folks you have a kind of a captive audience for a little while today anyway is there something interested people here would be able to do to support what you're looking I I think it's similar to what I just said right I mean the more people that know the more people that are aware of what we're doing what we're trying to accompl the better um but also just I think that empathy is a huge part of our program and understanding and being able to share that and to encourage that is huge um I think a lot of what we see with a lot of our participants is that they don't get a lot of that in their lives um so if you have the opportunity to be one of those people that can be empathetic that can be understanding then I certainly encourage you to do so and and we want to collaborate with the community I mean if there are housing employment Mental Health Services out there reach out to any member of the team and we want to um just collect and gather that information for our participants because it's not uncommon for them to come in and say I'm at a point now where I'm ready to be looking for a job and I'm really struggling what resources do you have available the beauty of the program is that we're offing we're offering wraparound Services we're trying to help in every area of their life and the more that we know what's available in the community that we can extend as a resource to them the better we do as a program in the program as a whole and I can say too I know we've had participants um jump in on things like the heart giveaway and things like that when they've had their first place and they've been just amazed that they were shocked at how nice everything was and you know and I think for them they weren't expecting that and that was just really nice to be able to want to connect them with that and then have that sense of getting a step up so I think they've really made use of those things thank you Stephanie you must mentioned the wrap around like trying to wrap around that person um do you guys have much success in trying to connect folks with more informal supports in the community so the people that maybe will stay longterm versus um programs that are there for short term to kind of me meet the immediate needs but you know whether it's family friends however that Circle goes um have you had luck um connecting people with with those folks or engaging those more informal like supports because it seems that those are the folks that maybe would help the long-term um progress and success of these individuals so what you're referring to is what we would call recovery capital and I think it's one of the greatest indicators of success for our participants and that's it's been something that's being pushed um extremely so this last year especially with a lot of the updated best practices a lot of the trainings um and it's something that we see is again for even for our participants it's the the greatest indicator of their success and so when we're able to actually connect them with those informal supports with the family the friends um just give them opportunities to have um a normal life right I mean to be able to go and go to the gym where they might be able to work out every day and have a community there uh maybe they have a board game group where they go and hang out with um AA meetings NA meetings um um sports leagues those are the things that we really encourage and where we see a lot of the people in our program Thrive is when they have access to those things um just uh this last summer we had a couple of our graduates show up to our treatment court pinck and they talked about being able to uh do a kickball league a sober kickball league and they invited us and unfortunately it was a little last minute for us but seeing our participants being able to go out and do those sorts of things and seeing them actively pursuing that um that's gives us a lot of Hope into what we're doing and um I think that's that's what they're all striving for as a followup to that through your work at whatever point with a part participants in the program are you um getting information about or are you aware of whether or not they are like maybe connected with the County Human Services programs or if they're receiving Public Assistance or like any connections that are there yeah so we have regular contact with the various departments within the county um we make sure to refer to the various resources available to them um it's it we have a couple team members that are in various departments within the county that specifically do that um we have Peg case she kind kind of um collaborates with us with our treatment Court participants um and making some various referrals um she's been a great help and although she's an team member she has been uh a enormous help in making sure that we can make some those connections other uh part of my case load is child protection and a lot of times uh treatment Court participants are parents and I might be aware of them because of a a prior Child Protection case or just through case management so it's not uncommon for us to reach out to our partners in Scott County Health and Human Services to say is there something we can do for this participant is there a parent support outreach program that we can hook them up with can you make contact with a neighboring uh County to see if they can reach out to this individual so we you know we're not afraid to use um all of the resources and contacts that we have too to try to help out participants another big part of our program is the mentor program so everyone's paired with a veteran Mentor um so the hope there is that they're developing lifelong friendships with that person so it doesn't just end when veterans court ends but here's a resource that they have a connection in the community to someone after they graduate the program is that for both courts or just vets court so vet court has the mentor program we do have a requirement for um sponsors for treatment court and so it's a similar connection although not not the same um but the extra support is always uh helpful there's also peer recovery support specialist that they might get um connected with through treatment or sometimes just kind of through our program it was mentioned earlier the uh importance of coordinating with local law enforcement on page 14 there's data on um treatment Court check-ins by local law enforcement and um you note that those checks uh the number of checks vary by agency I'm I'm wondering too if just the nature of the checks or the quality of the checks also vary and whether you find some departments doing more impact job in that part of this process than other departments and not to name them out but just what are those things that you think are are being done well by those departments sure so I think I mean personally I haven't seen any uh lack of quality from any Department um they've all done a great job collaborating with us and and communicating with us on their checks um I think a lot of it depends on you know where our clients residing right if we have a large number of them within SHP obviously we're going to be utilizing shock BPD a little more extensively um I think a lot of it is you know for our participants when they talk about the relationships uh with law enforcement it comes down to know how much does the officer talk to them right when they show up how in depth is the officer going um and it it can depend on the officer too right so it might not be a a department having a a great relationship maybe there's one officer in particular there that has done a really great job doing those checks and has built a great connection with that participant um and I think again overall we've seen a great job from our law enforcement Partners trying to do that um really just a matter of education for a lot of them too and making sure we continue those relationships and Captain pi wasn't able to be here today but uh she's been awesome yeah and I actually um I do have a statement from her she wished to share so if you give me just one moment I'll I'll read that off for you um so she said on behalf of law enforcement please uh I'd like to thank the board for their continued support she's sad she couldn't be here um she wanted me to share that as the law enforcement L Ison she continues to try and strengthen the relationships between law enforcement clients additionally the ongoing education to her peers about the program to get buying from law enforcement um they continue to watch clients make the choice and put in the hard work to change their lives with all the support of the board and the team and wouldn't be possible for our clients and this program impacts a small number of people on paper but a large number of people overall and clients participating in the program mend many break broken relationships stop victimizing the community by not committing crimes and transform into contributing member of society so she's very thankful of the continued opportunity to work with this program thank you Aon judge l um I want to be sure we give you the opportunity to speak to the vision for the First Judicial veterans treatment court and the work that went in to get us to where we are today and of course any others um jump in to supplement your response with me um I feel so awkward he asked the question and it's you that I really want to talk to so I'm like where am I looking here you should talk talk to them um as chief of the district I sit on the judicial Council which is our governing board for our our district courts across the state and that's led by Chief Justice naty Hudson and is populated by all the Chiefs from the 10 districts as well as other parties related to seao and they come up with priorities strategic planning priorities for each year and their focus for the last two bium has been to make treatment courts and Veterans courts available to all citizens in the state so I think I'm right that we have 87 counties in m Minnesota good I'm glad I nailed that we are to the point we are we are up to offering um some ability to provide treatment court services in over 75 counties at this point that's unbelievable I mean when you think about some of these small counties that are putting together a treatment court with two and three participants I mean what a commitment of a County Board to to go ahead with that but what's also part of that is the funding and So based on those priorities they are seeking funding from the Cannabis legislation from different ways to help support all our counties because they understand that this is a costly um investment for counties you know we kind of Pat ourselves on the back here because we were ahead of everybody else you know we started in 2016 when other places were like well maybe if you're ramsy or henpen but but we were there and we started that process I think it's interesting that we're seeing the Evan flow we're seeing now but I don't think that in any way detracts from the importance of the service that we're providing because our our goal is to take people out of our system and that should always be our goal I think the The Joint project um of the first district to have an all-encompassing veterans court was an important one because we realized that in some of our small one and two judge counties that they're never going to have the the participants needed by doing this umbrella joint Court we can Encompass all seven of our counties um here in the first district and provide those Services throughout um um the district even though we only have two courts we were really lucky in that process that we were able to come up with folks that had connections across the district you might brace ER was our design ated veterans and treatment Court County attorney for years he was um selected to be on the bench in Dakota County and now he's working in our veterans court across the district well what does that mean well he knows the players he knows people he's an approachable person for our team members and so I feel like we've done a good job of of being inclusive and getting people to want to be involved and feel that they can can be part of that I am really proud of what our team has done here um as you know I was kind of out of the game for a while and I stepped in to assist um another judge who who didn't feel she could do this work right now um and it's been kind of fun to be back but it's also a reminder of that this is this is parenting a 14-year-old boy every single week does anyone have a 14-year-old boy they're so frustrating and you want and I actually said to a kid last week I want to shake you because you just keep nodding and saying you're going to do what I say and then you don't so it is you have to understand that this is not like this miracle that we get people in and six months later they're like I'll car it that's not the way it is but I think the incremental work that we're doing is paying off for a community and if it's paying off through lower numbers of our filings lower numbers of nuisance crimes um lower numbers in our child protection area then we're winning we're never going to be able to prove it Beyond A Reasonable Doubt but I think we're winning so we very much appreciate your support I hope you feel the um support of state court administration because you do have it and I just want to congratulate I think we have a super team here and we um are glad to continue to do the good work for Scott County so thank you so much thank you judge any additional questions from the panel uh the only the only final thing that I've um heard you say a couple times Aaron is talking about the a lot of the training that your team does on an ongoing basis and I'm just really curious I think in the narrative page two it talked a little bit about some recent trainings and some opportunities there I just didn't know if you could expand on that a little bit and how you think that might have some impact on and um the programs sure so in here in 2024 the national uh program that kind of leads best practice recommendations is named allrise um they came out with a second edition of their best practice manual and along with that there comes a whole slew of trainings and recommendations then for programs to attend and to try to implement um what we've seen with our vets court is that um some of these new recommendations um we were able to take in and Implement um they do a great job in addressing the needs and and just being responsive to our participants um so I believe um Samantha Hammond attended a probation agent uh training earlier this year um myself and my co-coordinator uh Katie schuel attended the uh coordinator training this here a lot of it is focusing on those changes to the best practices and how are we going to implement that when we bring it back to our teams um so one of the projects for me even into this next year is going to be looking at our manual for treatment Court um and while we have one that reflects these new changes with our vets Court how do we then make those changes for a treatment Court to make sure we're following those best practices um allrise also has a has offered free uh kind of operational tuneups to uh to programs and that has I believe uh great interest to our team and it's something that we're looking at potentially doing here in this next year as well um a lot of that's going to focus along lines of okay how do we Implement these new best practices but also what can we do to improve again what can we do to offer a greater variety of incentives um how can we just be more responsive in general to our participants um and then in May of 2025 they have the allrise National Convention and that is for all specialty courts to attend um I believe we were able to secure some funding for that So the plan is to send at least a few of us to attend that um we're again the the focus will be on these new best practices how to implement them um and then also just how to to do that continuing education with your teams moving forward do they assist at all with helping programs with outcomes and trying to measure some of the things that um your group has all been talking about today that's really hard to measure so they typically will partner with grants to offer some of that analysis um otherwise I believe that's something that we would have to do kind of separately on our own um I believe um when treatment Court was operating under the federal uh Grant they had um a lot of that analysis was a part of that or or funded through that Grant all right I have um two questions before we turn it back over to the chair and the Commissioners one Evan if we can go to page 16 um we have an estimated net cost per participant for our adult treatment court and setting aside for the purposes of this question judge Lennon's articulation of part of the value proposition here is we're we're paying for more than just that impact on the recidivism rate we're we're buying some security potentially down the road and there's that multiplying Factor but how does this uh cost per participant rate compared to a traditional probation approach and I might Heidi I pr for so many questions that was that's a good one um I don't have like a number thank you Molly Bruner Community Corrections director I don't have a exact number for General probation um off the top of my head we do have some research around the state that looks at some averages around that um I appreciate judge Lennon's comments here I mean it is um you know per participant can be rather spendy um and the types of clients that come in here are very high risk they have again very serious you know chemical mental health sorts of uh oriented issues and so keeping um people out of prison keeping people out of our jails stabilizing all the things you've heard today it is very very hard to put up cost on the things that you're not paying for on the other side of things right um so although on paper it does appear that way it definitely with the success rates we're seeing and not paying for defend Services which we we can quantify that we just can't quantify the what didn't happen sorts of things um it it can look um or can be cost the cost benefit analysis does tend to work out then in these programs of course otherwise we wouldn't be doing them so thank you second part of that just kind of a comparison question is we have the data on side six around recidivism for those who participate in treatment Court do we have the recidivism rate for people who do not participate in the treatment Court just to have that comparison keep going up the three year to threee felony right so does that Heidi does that exclude treatment Court participants or is the treatment Court participation number so small that that that doesn't influence that would include toony the Department of Corrections sorry the Department of Corrections is actually the one who provides this data for us right now so it would still include those because they're going up to our Statewide supervision system so yeah okay thank you uh I have a St question before it goes to the board um I went back to the 2016 RBA and getting ready for this meeting just to read it and um remembering some of the work sessions in fact three of the board members weren't even here when they approved the original um treatment court but it was you know focusing on the high-risk High offenders which Molly and you just talked about reducing recidivism future crime by participants preventing overdose deaths reducing collateral damage against families and Community which I think the Judge hit really hard on reducing cost to the criminal justice system and the community and then enabling addicts in the criminal justice system to become productive responsible members of their families and community and a commitment to report on this it was by annually for the first four years and then annually after that which we've continued to do but one of the things I like to ask on programs like this is each one of you if You' short response I'm going to start with car L run back there who's been hiding um if there was one thing you could do in 2020 what's the one thing you would ask for in our treatment courts okay um well I think Ian part of it is just addressing some of those barriers that our clients continue to face and so I don't know how I guess if I had you know ultimate access to everything it would just be ensuring that they have affordable housing so again they go through our program we you know they they do their treatment program they gain sobriety they have supports they address their mental health you know issues but a lot of clients really struggle with being able to afford appropriate housing so that that would be one thing for sure and and obviously we're utilizing our transformation houses for some of those clients but we do have clients that that aren't necessarily homeless but don't really have stable housing situations saman I would agree with KY um also I think a big struggle for our clients is transportation um just being able to come to client uh probation meetings being able to you know if they find employment get into employment coming to court um so are we using our program that Transportation put together for Lyft or Uber or whatever it is to be able to use those rights yeah okay not yet all right it's definitely on the horizon for sure that's a work doe okay we got it Laura I'd say what they said I housing is my biggest issue with my clients I think so if there's if I could give them anything right now it would be like just an easier way to find them housing without jumping through a lot of Hoops and making it so stressful like I said my clients have a lot of trauma so when they're so stressed it just adds to their plate and they don't know how to handle that um so when they're stressed it just know it just makes things so much more difficult so yeah I mean there aren't enough section8 units in skyt County so we have a veteran who has section8 vure and isn't able to locate an apartment because there aren't any sectionate units in the community um so that is definitely a theme um that's happening here um I would say increasing pure support that's one of the goals of the VA we just hired two peer support Specialists so increasing that connection uh with veteran peer support Specialists another goal for 2025 well I'll speak to mental health then um I would say I think we do a good job with mental health and being able to you know get our assessments done and get people connected where we can um I know we've had uh at least one participant I can I would imagine more who have struggled with when they um you're just trying to make sure people are staying up to dat with getting insurance and getting the things that they need that way um we had some someone who just kind of she just struggled with that and didn't have some options so she we were able or she was able to find some therapy services that were free um so just trying to again make sure that we're PE getting people connected that way and I would say to the I like our idea that we've talked about with the alumni group because I think they could serve so many different functions that would be beneficial for them but then we've also talked about could they be somewhat um you know kind of providing some orientation or things like that to our new participants kind of guiding them a little bit along the way I think that would be good from the county attorney's office um I'd like to see us cast a wider net look at at policies and ways that we can um capture more participants that would be appropriate for the program whether or not that's going through policy and procedure manual just looking at ways to to get more people in to participate these are all things that of course are important to our program one thing that for me is that I've thought about recently is um the possibility of pre-treatment beds for our participants and just allowing them an opportunity to have a sober place to stay while they're waiting to actually get into a residential or some other uh treatment program um that isn't jail yes and that's the key right is that that yeah when we don't have that as an option uh sometimes jail is the one we fall upon and so to be able to provide that option that lets them stay in the community while they're waiting for that uh treatment bed would be something I'd like to pursue in the future and I really think it has to do with social um I think that our our addicts struggle because they don't have a sober network of friends and they don't have sober supports in the community and if you think about so much of our social lives um and I'll just speak for myself are around drinking and when we tell people we don't want you to drink anymore where do you go what do you do you can't play on a softball team you can't play you know all those things have drinking involved in them and so to try to set up some areas where there is socially acceptable things to do that don't involve drugs and alcohol and to have you know whatever it is bowling leaks or things that in the community where we say this is an event that doesn't involve drinking and we can invite people to that and we can have people find some sense of community so they're not always like on the edge you know what I mean like they they just need to have a feeling more of community that they fit in and that that we have but they're welcome I guess in community things thank you thanks for that Leslie that that provided a lot um thank you so much to the panel I know have some questions and comments but this is always good and I learn so much each year and I think um I sit here and think about the data you know I come in here after looking at it and reviewing it with these questions and like oh why is this why is this and then you really help provide that context and Nu Nuance that we can't just look at the numbers and be so thank you for that colleagues commissioner Al well I do have a data question I'm I'm having a hard time figuring out page 11 with page p uh 16 if I added up the active from say the bottom page 11 the bottom active you add those up that's eight that's 15 that's 16 active according to that people that are active by those years that they were in the program I'm wondering how that adds up to 42 participants how do we get to 42 how many how many really are participating right now I I don't get where the numbers how those two data points when those pages add up right now so right now we have 16 current participants in treatment court and I believe we have 17 in vet Court okay all right okay so that's that on page 42 those are combined both courts is that correct okay then that that helps me understand that then I have a comment on just the way the data on denials is aggregated I think it be rather than have 2016 to 2024 I'd rather see it by here that aggregated because you don't get really a sense of when things are occurring you know maybe maybe most of finish in a calendar year though there's all that overlap yeah well but we denying a calendar year but but 8 years of okay maybe it was seven years ago that all the denials were recurred I don't I don't you know oh that's a good point um so I don't know uh yeah I'd like by yeah I'd like by your with these reasons and I would take out not a resident because they shouldn't be be that should be the first question you can't apply you're not a resident so I mean it shouldn't even be in here I don't think not a resident does that make sense so it's more a qualifi criteria then if you're not a resident you can't apply for is that true so that is true right the only Factor there is that for some of the Data Tracking purposes we have to come up with a what is a referral right and so sometimes we get that referral and the the referrent isn't even aware of where the the person is staying maybe it's coming from a defense attorney and the person is saying they're homeless and so after some more digging and actually I I've invested some time then into the referral um come to find out that the majority of their time has actually been spot spent in henan County so because of the invested work into that person we're still going to list them as a referral I get it you you have to do some digging to qualify whether they're a resident or not it's not just a yes or no correct okay I get it although sometimes I will tell you that a a fellow prosecutor will just send me a message quick and say is this person eligible and the first thing I look at is residency and then I'll say to them are they a current resident or would they otherwise meet our homeless criteria and if they say no that doesn't even make it to Aaron so some of that information I think is already sort of weeded out and doesn't make it to referral status okay well thank you I I'll just comment on one of your comments I think the denials and looking at years is important because over the past few years many years we've talked a lot about oh how can you know we look at Ron how can you you know deny people what can we change so it's hard to see the changes if it's this aggregate data like that um we can't see that we're making progress I'm not denying so many people so thank one that one more on this um not high risk High need do you see sometimes see people that were in that category that all of a sudden they became high risk High need in other words I'm thinking we want to be proactive and prevent somebody from becoming highrisk I need I mean say more about this category of course so as part of the referral process I do a screening interview with that par uh potential participant and I do two various assessments or two different assessments one is a quick screen and that that's the one that we generally base our yes or no off of for highrisk high need um and then we do a more in-depth interview for uh to just get more clarification to do um more case planning needs about um for those that are not highrisk high need involving them in this process um what research has shown is that taking someone that's lower risk um or lower need can potentially increase their Risk by exposing them to that population okay um yeah okay uh one more just so you get a little better understanding client declined is the cure sometimes worse than the some maybe you want to speak on that well sometimes and remember too I mean we have a uh 15218 which is a statutory disposition for um low-level controlled substance offenders they're entitled to a state of adjudication or diversion sometimes a referral might come in and we look at it I mean we had this yesterday we have an observer who is high-risk High need meets eligibility requirements but he might be entitled to the same disposition um statutorily and so it's a a less intensive period of Probation and then it's their choice it's a voluntary program what do you want to sign up to do so we do see that sometimes all right thanks Mr this is always one of those uh times when you just really remember how messy this is life on life lifechanging trying to transform people's lives messy I think was the word frustrating um and yet it's one of those deals where I I yeah I wasn't here when it first got approved but I think we were all mostly here when all the workshops were kind of kicking off and Wilton was kind of Judge Wilton was the I think one of the main back in the day anyway and so went to some of those um graduations and to see I mean this takes life someone pouring life into someone else and Jamie I forget her title but Captain I thought it was Captain yeah um you know when she's here you see it you you have the same Um passion of pouring your life into someone else's life to see change and transformation and sometimes as bad as you want it for somebody until they want it for themselves and that leades to some frustration but um hopefully all the touch points and the passion and the Hope trying to instill hope into people we see change and more importantly they see change that's that's what we're after and so you know with with Leslie's uh I was going to say million dollar question I think housing might be a couple billion dollar question talk to the state about that um but are there gaps and so you know we're big on trying to find Partners you know where are there we're going to go see a group tomorrow that you know how do how do what they're already doing can we bring that back here not necessarily for this but maybe uh but are there current Partners anywhere in the country the state the world I don't know that you guys have come across that that are filling a void that maybe we can't do um that would be helpful to come alongside and because you only have so many hours in a day there's there's a lot of you here there's a lot of horsepower but you can't be everywhere that's not our call either but are there partners are there third parties nonprofits I don't know they can help come along side that are already doing something like this to help be that life on life when J he's not on duty or you're not in the office um to really make those numbers you we can't make the numbers but we can be that hope instilling that hope in people so they see change and want that change so I I don't I don't know if there's an answer to that necessarily if there's other groups we were firsh but you know others are out there doing it so is there someone else that like wow what are you guys doing not don't mind stealing stuff not that I don't want to be in your court I I I definitely don't want to be in your courtroom after my daughter uh who interned here for free just in case that's said judge Lennon she does not beat around the bush she is there and firm so you're making an impact on a senior in criminal justice and psychology so I wanted you to know that you made an impact on her um so are there things that we can do are there you know how to fill in these gaps because we can't be all things all people we want to we want to I want to we can't but together are there groups and if there's not an answer like I know that's Jake Mr transformation you can put that you got a little list of things to do you can put that on the list so I mean I think it's a hard question right because there my guess is that there's a lot of organizations out there that sure they they can help that we're just not aware of right um but what I've seen with a lot of coordinators and and when we networked at that conference that we went to earli year a lot of the coordinators what they found the greatest success in is utilizing their local Partners utilizing the people in their community and and educating them to so they understand what the program is and then getting them to provide those resources locally um provide those opportunities locally for one Gap that might be uh worth mentioning is employment right so obviously we have lots of employers in in the county um but not necessarily everyone's willing to hire someone with a felony on the record and so the education piece can be really important then by talking to different employers and talk telling them what we're about what we're trying to do and I've seen it work in other counties and other states and throughout the the US that by doing so you can get some really strong Partners in the community that are willing to offer opportunities to people they wouldn't have necessarily before um so ultimately I think what we're going to see the greatest success is utilizing people that are here and um the community members and partners that are you know right on our doorstep it feels like we do have a lot of pieces even right underneath underneath this rough for certainly in this community and I know it takes time so it is this weird um okay look at the report and like oh oh like oh that seemed a little and I know it doesn't always capture that you know I I get that and that's why we always have these conversations like exactly you know um I don't know if there's a day that goes by we don't feel the squeeze of like H if we had all kinds of just infinite money we don't um and yet we want to be a place where people really see and feel and can taste that hope and transformation that's available if they want it and so how do we best do that without um you know raising taxes through the roof because it's not always about money but money helps um so I don't you know we I know we did some job fair in the jail which I know is a little different but you know we have that group so hopefully we're working with the folks downstairs to do so that you're not all doing it yourselves um all right all right and the workforce center has been giving some we had somebody who just finished the boiler class oh yeah good good yeah yeah good glad to hear that a boiler oh yeah big facilities big facilities deal yeah yeah thank you for being here to see um all right maybe one last thing your questions a little shorter yeah sorry you know it's not even questions it's not even questions it's just it's just it's I'm I'm the guy's gotta leave early um Jamie I mean she is she's kind of the high water mark right I mean so again going back to the question I was asked you know other jurisdictions maybe but the numbers are different so I guess it drives that but um how do we best I'm sure she's out being an ambassador um to others of of the payback the I don't know Roi I hate to I I have that same question and and I like how she will ask you know what I'm turning to red when you when you read J uh the captain's statement and about she even met mentioned something about educating other law enforcement officers and I am just like yes yes and how can we help and make that happen because I think especially in some of our smaller communities and I'm sure still in shock being Savage and probibly L too a lot of turnover in that area and and she really has instituted some best practices with those visits and maybe I know or have examples of other law enforcement officers around the county just because they they heard about it you know don't look at those visits the same way or don't um you know utilize them in the same way and so anything I think that's what you're saying and I'm saying is anything we can do to help get her opportunities to talk about her experiences and the outcomes of of those visits with with the rest of our departments and on a regular basis because there's going to be turnover and maybe Jordan only has one participant in the court right now but in two years are going to have three you know so it's it's something that I think needs to be almost institutionalized in the program that it happens regularly and we can't count on her for everything but who who else can do it is that what you're Bo okay so nice I'll come back if you have more so nice yes Mr Brennan really the only thing um I wanted to bring up was affordable housing and then hiring so I think that that's something that's been addressed so I don't have anything else thank you I would just say with that on that same the hiring and really good to hear about somebody with the boiler operator but this is an example where sometimes I'm sure car you don't even know how much your Workforce and training folks have helped these folks and I don't know if there's a good way to be able to quantify that because that's I don't know exactly why but that's important to me or it seems important we want to know that that's working and if there's some mechanism that is efficient and not time consuming to know know that because it helps with resources and figuring out when we want to increase thanks thank you get on thank thank you madam chair I just on that page five I just there was the target of 85% and I and it was achieved looked like this year I wonder how do you how do you move that to to 100% And or why not mly that's you kind of like toward zero deaths kind of like toward zero repeat right I think that is always our goal right one of my taglines is like work me out of a job that would be a wonderful place to live right I think there's also what are the realistic expectations living in the world that we do I guess that 100% is aspirational uh is it achiev achievable and if we're looking across a state and trying to compare those numbers like what really is a high standard and then that's where this 85% was set not to say that we're not always trying to Aspire you know to clearly to be 100% what's the range on those numbers across the state I mean is there like the high and the low do you I mean is there 100 and is there a 20% or you know what I'm saying range is usually between 70 and 80 I see okay somewhere in that 70 to 85 good yes Mr holar thank you madam chair just one thing I want to also maybe Stephanie can address this but one of my focuses for this whole thing is that we have to remember that there's victims out there um these people these these individuals in treatment Court got there because they committed a crime so they don't get to them unless they've committed a crime a lot of those crimes are not victimless so Stephanie how my one of my priorities has always been we have to um keep track of our victims we have to treat them appropriately so how was that addressed yeah with so every case that comes through on a referral um I coordinate with our victim witness coordinators and I will have a conversation either myself directly or through the victim witness coordinator about treatment Court what it is what it does what the purpose is what their involvement can be if they want to they can still uh submit Victim Impact statements we still make sure that restitution is a part of the disposition or the sentence I can tell you that I've had a number of these conversations over the three years that I've been a treatment Court team member I have often had people say I'm not sure at the start of the conversation whether or not they would support the defendant's entry into the program I don't think I've ever had anyone by the end of the conversation say what a terrible idea don't do that um so once they learn more about it what once they learn what the purpose is all of the different resources that are being utilized to help better the life of the participant which usually then impacts them um I almost universally have onboarding from the victims but they always have the opportunity to be heard so make a statement U and again like I said restitution thank you for that question important part of this thank you very much uh couple just comments that I think and and I would invite my colleagues to disagree with me if this isn't true and uh one Stephanie just thank you for talking about and and I'm sure the whole team will be doing this looking at the policies and the procedures because I think our goal would be let's have both of these courts be full I mean that's the most efficient use of the dollars the best Steward of the dollars so anything that can be done and again in not I mean staying true to the program and what's needed but anything that can be done to get towards that that place I think would be really important um I talked about Jamie and and this is maybe a little bit for next year because I don't know that we have time and but if people want to share things with me offline um I'd love to hear it we invest a lot of time and resources and and you guys tears and sweat and all that into these this program and these these smaller almost it's it's an experiment or an idea to be able to do that wraparound Services what do we I'd love to know what we've learned or what we've been able to take from all of your work to our our big you know probation Community Supervision system to our Mental Health Center um even even in the work we do with with vets uh across the system what have we learned and been able to do because this is is different your casee loads are different I mean these folks are getting much more intensive uh supervision if we could do that with every single person in these programs outcomes would be different well I'd love to hear about and have us think about what what little tidbits what little things we learn from these intensive experiences that we can blast out to the whole populations because that really makes this investment worth it and so again and I think Molly has something to say about it um but even next year or next time we report I'd love to hear more about that because I think that's a a goal very much aspirational goal yeah thank you madam chair and all the Commissioners for your questions and feedback that is a goal for 2025 to have a formal evaluation of treatment court and then we will be doing the same thing um as we continue to work with the First Judicial District for the veterans court that will really address a lot of the things you're talking about it's going to look at recidivism in different ways um one thing that wasn't necessarily mentioned but um even a harm reduction uh model meaning if somebody commits a new offense what are we talking about with that new offense um is it a misdemeanor theft or is it in a similar vein in terms of what they were doing with their high-risk drug use let's say so lots of different variables many of the things that you've talked about including um assessments or surveys of clients and again our Community Partners and different things like that so hopefully next year you'll have a much more robust um like formal evaluation is what I'm getting at related to our participants and things like that um and also I just wanted to add in terms of the law enforcement comments uh Captain Pearson is also now on our Community Corrections Advisory Board and I've had a conversation as of last week with Sheriff henon about um the sheriff's and how again we can start to maybe um do more Outreach and get more sheriffs involved in treatment and vets Court especially here in Scott County so just wanted to kind of share that as well thank you um and then judge Lennon's comment about sober activities for folks in the community huge I just think everybody in this room and everybody listening to be able to think about how all of us can try and promote that type of thing whether it be in faith communities nonprofits others in the community because that probably is a gap not just for these 50 people this is a gap for everyone so thank you for that I know we have a just a special person just entered the room I saw him loitering out there um and really glad to see commissioner Mike beard back in Scott County you missed interested citizens did I'm sorry to do that but I am an interested citizen wonderful yeah the GU downstairs missed you um did you have more I didn't mean to cut you off I just wanted to get a yes no all right I'm staying red because you you got me covered all right thank you everybody great presentation and uh excited to continue this work