6:00 to this >> so we can officially start. We're good. >> But yeah, [clears throat] >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It is so nice to have folks here in attendance. Uh on behalf of the Scott County Board of Commissioners, I would like to welcome you to tonight's board meeting. Actually, just more of a public meeting. probably want to change that as well, but meeting here with the board where we will be discussing the proposed 2026 county budget and tax levy. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to attend our meeting on this chilly evening. The purpose of this public meetings, not a hearing, public meeting, is to explain the proposed budget and levy for 2026 and to obtain your input into the proposed 2026 budget. Some of you may be present to talk about your market values or property classification. During this meeting, we will not be discussing individual values or classifications. The paint 2026 notices of value and classification were sent out last March with your 2025 tax statement. The right to appeal your classification and value is listed on that notice at various dates, times, and locations. The county's board of appeal and equalization meeting is held in June of each year. And we do have county staff present uh raise your hands right there, Michael Thompson in the back there, who are available to sit down with you individually to discuss your valuation and answer any questions you may have. Feel free to uh feel free to meet with the county assessor uh and his staff now or after the meeting. This evening's meeting is limited to the county budget and the factors that make up the budget. Although market valuation variables are a component of the budget, they are not the central purpose of tonight's meetings. You're welcome to ask questions and provide comments into the county's budget and tax levy following the presentation. And at this time, Danny Linds, our deputy county administrator, will be leading this discussion. Welcome. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you, chair, and good evening, commissioners and members of the public. Um, I am here to give an overview of the 2026 proposed budget that we will be uh looking at in the next couple of weeks for adoption and the final levy. So, for the agenda, we have the 2026 budget status, um, our financial forecast for the next 5 years, and then some data on the impacts of residents of what the current proposed budget looks like. So, for the budget status, um, we usually start with our board budget policy. These are the guiding principles that we have that we're use in uh starting to build the budget over all. Um first is provide long-term fiscal stability while minimizing tax impacts. Maintain a reasonable level and constant tax burden focused on modeling limited and relatively level increases and managing limited resources over unlimited demands and provide the level of service necessary to meet mandates and citizen expectations. When we talk about maintaining fiscal stability, we want to maintain a structurally balanced budget. That includes what are the needs of residents, um, employees, and the requirements we have from the state. Maintaining the county's reserves or fund balance, maintaining the county's bond rating, planning and preparing for the future, and don't spike the levy, no surprises, which um, I will just say we can't always accommodate what the state and federal government does to us as we're going through this process. So, current budget status, revenue is anticipated to increase by about 1.82% 82%. Um, this is almost entirely due to shifting staff on alternative revenue sources like the local affordable housing aid and our CCBHC revenue. While the largest impacts from the state and federal government legislations are delayed, um there's still some substantial impacts expected for the 2026 budget. About $713,000 and increased costs from the state. This includes paid family leave, um competency attainment does not meet criteria, behavioral health funds, and interstate compact defender tracking uh shifts or revenue losses, and about $135,000 in cost shifts from the federal government legislation that passed uh that is a pass through from the state where the county picks up those costs where a lot of states the state picks up those costs. and then funded contractual increases of about $884,000 uh for a proposed levy increase of 8.36%. So since the original proposed budget um back in August we had started out 11.97% um and staff had made some substantial changes to that uh based on the impacts and the expected impacts from the state and federal legislation. Um we took the board's feedback from that initial meeting and we brought back for an adoption of the preliminary levy um a levy of 9.97%. And even from that time we expected that we'd be able to reduce that further but we are really keeping in some contingency not knowing if we were going to get additional guidance from the state or federal government on some of these changing requirements. We have not received any additional guidance at this point. So that's where we have this 8.36% levy is what we're proposing here tonight. So what we have removed from the budget and the forecast within there was we removed an additional million dollar um impact from the SNAP work requirement assumptions an additional $747,000 from levy contingency that were assumptions going into the 2026 budget that we have now taken out for 2027 we reduced $2.5 million for reduction in Medicaid work requirement assumptions. This was the additional staffing that we thought we might need. Again without the additional guidance we took that out of the forecast. and then $235,000 for reduced SNAP payment shifts. And then for 2028, about $75,000 in reduced P SNAP payment shifts that were going to be coming in that part of the budget. There are substantial unknowns over the next two to three years within the budget overall. Um we believe these changes are reasonable. They don't put us at substantial risk, but it does have a little bit more risk um than what we've had in the past, and it could lead to larger levy increases in the next couple of years if some of these assumptions do come true um from where we're at today. Included within the budget is the salary increases based on the board's direction, 6% increase for health insurance, a million dollar set aside contingency levy. This is our contingency that we have kept in the budget for the additional requirements that we are going to have to have for SNAP, Medicaid, other state shifts that are coming. $883,000 in contractual increases. $353,000 from the impact of the paid family leave legislation. $125,000 for implementation of the act, $150,000 was the does not meet criteria shift from the state, uh $135,000 from the SNAP administrative cuts, $35,000 from the ICOs funding shift from the state. We did also have increase in $400,000 from Menchoice standalone reimbursements. This is something that our staff has pursued that would increase our revenue more along the lines of what our actual costs are. $350,000 from an increase in our JAF U assumption. We reduced our CIP funding increase by $200,000 and then we shifted treatment court onto opioid funding for $152,000 and then the county is going to stop doing credit card fees. >> Danny, will you just explain um what SNAP is and um like Jaff just so they know what we're talking about? >> Yes, thank you. Uh SNAP is a supplemental nutrition assistance program. That's the what used to be uh food stamps. And so we actually take in the applications and help administer that program. Um typically it's always been funded from the state and federal government. When the change to the big beautiful bills came through, um most of that hit state programs, but because of how uh our state operates, it actually is coming back onto county funding um because the state doesn't provide that coverage for it. So it's under existing state statute. And the JAF is a juvenile alternative facility. It's um a nonsecure facility for youth that do not have a placement whether it's because of um troubles in the home or uh due to law enforcement engagement. Then CIP is our capital improvement program. So the kind of the big expenditures we make over the course of the year. So as we look into our financial forecast um 2027 through 2030 uh we look at each year and it does include 1% revenue increases. As we said, the state over the past several years, we've seen a trend where they are not keeping up um with the revenue increases we've seen in the past or historically. So, more and more of the state programs that we administer, the salary and benefits for employees are coming onto the levy um where historically it was about 3 or 4% increases we'd see each year. We have the estimated salary increases, 5% health insurance increase, $200,000 increase transfer to fund balance to help us keep up with increasing operating costs, and a million dollars for contractual increases each year. And then things within that for 2027, we do have $2.6 million in identified and assumed budget reductions. So about 1.6 million of that, the reductions have already been identified and are being held at this point, and we expect another million dollars in reductions for next year. We do anticipate a $ 1.5 million increase for the ACT, a million contractual increase, um $350,000 in SNAP cost shifts, $270,000 in SNAP administrative cost shifts, $250,000 for Medicaid work requirements, increase in our fund balance by $200,000, and then $162,000 from Min Choic's flat reimbursement. These are all based on um staff's estimates of what these state and federal changes uh will come back to the county. $100,000 increase to the CIP and about $75,000 to bring the library extended access onto the levy. In 2028, we're going to have a shift in our debt service is going to go down by $2 million and we're going to be moving that into a building fund um to handle some of these larger expenses like roof replacements and things like that that are starting to come due on some of our aging buildings. We expect a million dollars in SNAP cost shifts from uh federal legislation. Again, the contractual increases of a million dollars and $200,000 increase to fund balance. For 29, again, the million dollar contractual increases. And then we expect corrections fee losses of $450,000. That's under state statute right now. Those fees that we can charge would go away. And then 2030, all we have right now is about a million dollars in there for contractual increases. M >> Mr. Chair, Danny, I I think this is true, but I think when we have a presentation like this, we should say it. Um all of especially when we're talking about that SNAP and Medicaid, the only things we left in the budget are what's required and mandated. We've that's correct. We've really went to the bare minimum there of what that we have no choice over who gets those things. We just have to administer it. >> Yes, we are doing just the mandated level of service there. >> So this is a graphical representation of what our 5-year forecast looks like. So we have an 8.36% levy for 26. We expect that to come down some to 6.7% in 27 uh 28 7.34 and then reduced in the outy years. Um just a reminder those outy years are always lower [clears throat] because we don't know as much of what's happening when we start to get into the fourth and fifth year. The red line shows the actual property tax levy in dollars and then the green line shows the percentage of taxable market value um that our levy takes out of here. So, of all the taxable market value in the county, um the county for its operations takes 335%. Um we always want that to be going down in this forecast. You can see that um it's going up a little bit next year. Um but that is one of the goal and it's one of our leading indicators here overall. [clears throat] And then this is our operating budget. So the yellow line is our operating budget in total dollars. The red line is our fund balance at the end of last year essentially. Um, and what we look at when we're looking at fund balances, you basically take that red line and divide it by the yellow line, and that gives us that blue line, which would be for 2026, 32.19%. That is how much of money we have in the percentage of our operating budget that we have in our savings account. The green line at the bottom represents the lowest fund balance amount we'll have in the bank before we get our property tax payments. So when you see that green number, that is our real contingency there in order to get past funding operations. We'll get down to about 5% or about go down about 25% of our fund balance by the time we start getting property tax payments in way. So we have to live off that fund balance up until that time, which is why we have that number where it's at. And this is established under board policy and is actually lower than even what the state auditor's recommended level is because we've done our own analysis of what is a safe amount of contingency to have. and we leave that 5% for any emergency circumstances that might come up. Then the impact on residents. So one of the guiding principles we have used throughout this is to try and keep our levy consistent with um CPI plus new construction on a percentage change basis. Historically we've been right there. Um but we did not increase the levy at that same rate. um we had interest rates spiking in the past and we're kind of seeing that trajectory still kind of carry through um within our costs. And then this is residential properties with property tax increases or decreases. Um you'll see the vast majority of our properties are going to see a property tax increase um with most of them about 19,700 seeing it between $50 to $100 is what the property tax is going to be increased for the current year from county tax levy. >> Right, Danny? Just want to make that clear that some people see more of an increase in taxes, but that could be their school or city or >> Yeah. And also based on valuation and valuation changes, all that goes into this calculation. >> Why did you stop at 300? You have so many broke up higher than 300. >> Thank you. >> We also look back 10 years of what the average value home is um and what those taxes and changes would be. So um if we look back on this first column here, this is the average value home and it corresponds. So this is the average value home for 2017. This is the average value home for 2021, 2025 and 2026. So if this home stayed the average value home and grew um over that time to 2026, their taxes would have gone up by $362 overall or about $36 per year in their taxes. >> [snorts] >> This is our 10-year tax rate. Um, we had a long history of continual declining tax rate these last two years. It has started to creep up. Something we do not love, but it's the reality of the situation we're in with declining state revenues on these. But I'd say we've tried to be judicious with where we have added um in this organization. Scott County is still one of the lowest on a uh per resident basis for the number of staff we have working here at 5.15. Uh Washington County is a little bit lower than us and then Dakota's typically lower than us but they don't have their um ACT for out right now. >> They don't have what >> their annual comprehensive financial report where we get the data. My apologies too many acronyms. So next steps December 16th we'd be looking to adopt a final levy and the budget. And with that commissioners I would turn it back over to you for any questions. >> Thank you very much. And before we open this up to this it's not a public hearing. It's just a public meeting. Um, this presentation, like I brought my budget book. We all have these budget books that we've all gone through uh for months. A budget is one of those things that I feel like we start um the 2026 budget. Well, we're working on that. We talk about it just about every meeting. Something comes up. This was a And those meetings, by the way, the regular board meetings, regular workshops, anything like that, always open to the public, just like this one is. So, it's great to see so many faces here. Too many times there just aren't. Um, so those are always open to the public. Um, so this was a fast presentation, but we've all been waiting through this for months and months and months. U, but now this is your opportunity. So I'm just going to read a few housekeeping items because this is your time to maybe make us go viral and we get tens and tens of viewers or even more. Um, but if there's anything you want to say, just please wait until you're recognized. just um don't want to have a lineup where you have to wait for someone to talk and we'll make sure everyone gets through here. But just just uh raise your hand and soon as I recognize you, please come to the podium. Um state your name and address for the record. Uh limit your comments to the subject of tonight's uh meeting which is the budget and proposed levy and try to limit your presentation to 5 minutes uh if at all possible. So there will be time for folks to speak. Who would love to kick us off first? Please come on up. Name and address for the record. Good evening. Thank you for coming. Yep. Yep. And it's green. Uh and depending upon, you know, where you stand that the the well heightwise the microphone will pick you up no matter [clears throat] where you're at. You don't need to crouch down or >> I have specific questions. My name is Matt Mir and I live at 8403 West 132nd Street in Savage. My questions would be what is the county doing for the paid family medical leave? Are they going through the state or a private plan? And then number two, what are you doing to reduce the health plan cost of the county employees? Those would be my two main questions. >> Good questions. How are we going to take these >> as we >> I mean I think when they're so direct might as well >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean for we just we literally well we've had plenty of workshops on paid family uh medical leave act. We just had one before uh this particular meeting and we will not be using a TPA or a third party administrator at this point. We're going to be handling it through the state. Seems like it's be a more economical way for us to go. I mean, I think it's safe to say that the program itself is there, but it's also shifting sands of sorts because nobody, including the state, really knows exactly how this is going to all play itself out. Um, but so that question, we're going through the state. Um, >> can I respond to that? >> Sure. >> I've worked in insurance for 15 years. I work with large employers throughout the state of Minnesota. Work for one of the largest insurance companies, brokerages in Minnesota. And the state is the last place that I put any of my clients in Minnesota. And the reason being is that Minnesota is the only one that did not preund that account. Their increases are supposed to be probably 1.03. And they've got 13 other states in the United States that have all seen increases in the state of Colorado was the most recent and they were waiting 6 months for employees to get paid. So my question back is what are you going to do in the next two years or three years to reduce that 358,000 on that? because it's the projected budget. I don't know who your broker is. But my question would be, what are they going to do to reduce those costs? It might not be a lot. I don't know every budget piece, right? But that's a huge concern as a citizen because it doesn't sound like you did the due diligence on the insurance costs and the paid family medical leave costs in the future. >> Well, on that particular point, I was one that asked the question um two hours ago and and many months ago as as many of us have had the same. It wasn't this wasn't a question that was just asked two hours ago, but since we had a workshop on it as we're nearing it, that was one of my questions. Are we doing a TPA, third party administrator, are we doing the state um and the due diligence back was you're not wrong, right? This is new for Minnesota. 13 other states. >> It's new for Minnesota, but this isn't new for legislation. 13 other states have done this. And the the point is is that that's going to increase those that 358,000 is probably going to be double next year because the state's going to increase the rates because who went to the state are most of the employers that had the higher cost for paid feminine which is most populations. I'm not trying to be sexist but they're mostly female population because they have higher claims. So that's why my concern would be if the board isn't looking at it, please do next year and don't wait because this is going to be huge increase for all of us other folks >> working and I'm not trying to take up everybody's time but I don't know enough about the other pieces but this is a huge concern for me and especially for you as employees because >> you're going to wait to get paid and how are we supposed to be supported if you're trying to have a new baby if you have a mental health emergency and you are not paid. We're not going to be represented as citizens either. So my concern isn't just selfishly for me, it's for you as employees and how we are going to get supported. >> It's very real. Like it's very real. But >> so Mr. Chairman, um Matt, so we did actually look and receive several quotes on it that were higher than the state. We are only locked in for the one year. It is one of the things that we'll look at. We've [clears throat] had discussions with um Henipin County and other counties about looking together. You had also asked about our health health insurance. So we have been a longtime self-insured have done very well on our health insurance. I think for the package we can offer for the size county we are and the cost to both the county and to the state. Our postemployment benefits those are all covered already and funded out. And so I think we're in a pretty good position there as well. Um we are looking at partnering potentially with the cities um and other government entities to look at our pool size moving forward as well. So yeah, we are with the state for the first year. We will see how this goes, but we do have the opportunity to look out with some of our insurance providers or partner with another county moving forward. >> Did they shop Metife when they looked at the policies for the county? I think that was one >> that was one of >> Yeah, >> because that was one of the lowest that was in the market right now. And I'm not trying to fight you on this, but as far as the health plan and reducing health plan costs, you yours is not bad, 5%, but what is the county doing to reduce claims and claims costs for in the future? Are they implementing direct primary care? Are you doing some type of tele medicine as a first level of care for employees? I mean, is there disease management? That's where my mind goes to this. And I'd be happy to volunteer and come to more of these meetings if that would be helpful. I'm not saying I'm the expert either. I just know enough to be dangerous. But like I said, the paid family medical leave is a huge concern. >> Yeah, we we offer telea medicine. We do preventive care. Um so, but I'd be happy to talk to you and and Danny Lens sitting right behind you. We can certainly show you more of that to answer some of your questions, but I'd be happy to listen. Mhm. >> I just I know in four years I'm moving away from the county cuz I don't like the taxes and it's nothing against anybody, but I'm not going to continue to fund this and I question how much of our budgets goes to the state. That is getting investigated right now and I don't want to dig into that. I don't want to bring that up. I don't want to be negative. So, but I would be curious of how much that is going to the state and if we want to hold off our budget until all of that is figured out because that's a huge concern, too. Mhm. >> I'm sure a lot of other people have had that on their mind, but thank you for your time. >> Yeah, I would just Yeah. No, thank you for for coming up. I would say those are very real questions and I think many of those same thoughts that are top of mind for you are top of mind for many of us. Believe me. >> Yes, please. [clears throat] >> Hello, Jennifer Jensen, 1500 West 200 Street. Um, so I actually came prepared more to talk about our individual property taxes, which we'll talk with someone else later and stuff, but is in regards to this presentation with a lot of lot of numbers and everything. Um, and a lot of which, you know, I didn't understand. But one thing that I that just stood out with the padding of the numbers and I would second that with all the fraud going on like is there a way that we can hold off on presenting a budget or like what what >> what do you have or what can you do because that is a huge >> topic right now. >> It's [laughter] huge >> because it trickles down to my property taxes and everything. So it this is something that fraud is is fraud was top of mind before it would hit the news, right? I mean because we don't want to have a big leaking ship. Um we do have to ratify a budget. I think it's at the by the next what is the actual date? I mean we're going to do in the 16th but I think it's by 1231 end of year. >> We have to have a budget levy uh ratified to submit. Um so that's >> the statute that we get the >> we have to have it done by 12:31. >> Yeah. Y and so our next meeting happens to be the 16th. So there lots we always hear about mandates. I always hate talking about them because I'm sick and tired of them. Um not that they're not necessarily needed, but fund the darn things from coming from the state. So where I'm going with that is that's a state statute that we are bound by to be able to submit those uh budgets and levies accordingly by statute, not just a mandate because mandate's often a statute, often a law. So we have to follow that. >> Our jail is pretty nice. Guess I don't really want to spend any time there though on that particular note. >> Okay. Thanks. One question I did have though um in your presentation a few slides back um you had some padding in there for something that you had noted uh was called a substantial unknown. Can you explain that a little bit? >> That's 2025 falls into a substantial unknown. Um, but specifically I I say that to but not really. It's >> so many things going on with the state and feds. But Danny, take it away. >> So when the [clears throat] state passed their budget this last year and then we had um the big beautiful bill that passed, there was funding shifts from the state to the county and then the big beautiful bill had work requirements to be implemented for uh SNAP payments and for u Medicaid requirements. it's county staff that take in that paperwork and have to do that um work requirements validation and those are those unknowns that we don't know what those requirements how they look how they're going to be implemented at this time. Um so we have some ability to if we need to hire staff or something else in order to meet the federal timelines that are now associated with that. That's what we're talking about from those unknowns. We don't know how they're going to be implemented. So right now it's the hope we can just continue as we have and not make any changes with that. Um, but that's where that substantial unknown comes in over the course of the next year. >> And how much was a lot of that? >> We have a million dollars set aside in the contingency. >> And what happens to that money if it doesn't? >> So, it would help us reduce next year's levy then if it wasn't. We don't leave a lot of money sitting in contingency just to do nothing. It's usually specifically for something and if it doesn't come to fruition, um, it would go away to helpfully reduce the levy the next year. So when you take a look at our fund balance when he showed you that there's probably on KSTP news tonight, right? Ramsey County was on there and other counties have been called in the metro. We're right at about 32% which is about four months which is the operating guidelines of the state auditor. But the key one is that 5% because it's the lowest point of our fund balance in May. And so that's what we really base it on. So it fluctuates between that 30 and 32% which gives us four months. Um Steve Jones in the back there and Leslie here happened to be here when the state unallotted and didn't make a December payment one year to us. So we do have to have some funds in the bank. We have seen it happen in our careers here. >> And so just a slight point of clarification, correct me if I'm wrong, but [clears throat] so we're I always say we're kissing cousins with the state, right? There's 87 counties that make up the state of Minnesota. So the state you and we're always talking with our state reps and state senators. I would implore you to also do the same. Um so the mandates or the programs or the statutes come rolling down the hill from St. Paul to all 87 counties. Different mandates, different programs that we then execute at the county level. So we're the hands and feet of the state. Um, sometimes they give us some money, but rarely do they give us enough. They'll they'll give us a program. They'll give us a mandate. Uh, usually [clears throat] with a statute, and normally not all of the funding. I don't I want to what's my the right wording, >> Nearly enough funding to mandate or to execute the program. >> Correct. When you're taking a look at our budget, you know, when we do some estimating, most of it is in health and human services. the board has a lot more control over parks and libraries which are pretty minimal if you look at the slope of their increases over 20 years. Um highway construction, those types of things, but we are the delivery arm of the state of Minnesota. And so some of the costs for like child protection for example, we haven't seen a rate increase there since 2013. You tell me what hasn't increased since 2013 in trying to deliver a program. Um, in children's mental health, it's about a $1.2 million program. The state provides about $35,000 in state money, but yet the county shell, the county shell, the county shell are the first lines of the state statute. So, when Commissioner Beer talks about, you know, state mandates, we do have to deliver certain programs. We do have to have certain case sizes. We do have to provide those reports to the state. and the funding just has not kept up, which has shifted it some of it to um the county property tax. And those are ongoing. Those aren't even necessarily the increases that Danny talked about trying to make sure we could cover that million dollars or some of the SNAP and Medicaid. Those are already currently within our budget that would be unfunded mandates. >> But this is just more of a same more of the same or doubling down with the with the newer programs that are coming out that don't have the money. So, we've already absorbed and I get it. It's all taxpayer money. Whether it's coming from the state, the county, or whatever, it's all taxpayer money. So, some of my conversations with my state reps and senators, like, hey, if you're so in love with these programs, God bless you. That's your choice. You've been elected to go and make those choices at St. Paul. Then send the money that it it takes to run those programs. Don't be a coward and send those programs down to all 87 counties. But then we have to fund it through county levy which hits your property taxes. So if you love the program, whether you're blue or red team, whatever, just send the money. Don't force it down to the county levy where the only lever, really one of the only levers we have is property tax increases. And it drives me nuts, keeps me up at night. U but that's the nutshell civics lesson of how it operates with the state and county. Now, we get the good good fortune of having our logo front and center. Well, actually upper left on the tax statements when they go out, Scott County, and you remit your taxes to Scott County. And then we divvyed up between, I don't know, some some six to 12 different line items on there. So, there's a county portion of the tax, there's the school district portion of the tax, there's the city portion of the tax, the township. Now, if you're in the city, you're not going to get, you know, you're going to get the city or the township. Mosquito control. We don't like mosquitoes even when it's cold. Um there's all of those different taxing districts, watersheds that make up the one number that you get to pay. So that's the again we're the kissing cousins with the state. We're the implementation, the execution of programs. We're also the collector of those taxes and then we remit them all. So it's just important to to know that. And we're the probably the most accessible, which is awesome that you can come. And we're again, I love when people show up for these. Usually it takes bad news for people to show up, but we're glad you're engaged. you know, we tried to send press releases out. We tried to do interviews. We've talked to all of our states and reps testifying at committee to try to alert the general public that this is coming. Um, it was almost exactly a year ago. I guess we have AMC next uh next week. The governor came last year and talked about, oh, we're all going to have to make hard decisions, which, you know, makes you wonder, and this isn't a political, this is just facts. Um well then there was the next month in January his governor the governor's budget rolled out and that's where oh we're cutting the budget the governor no no no there wasn't I don't think a single cut it was shifts >> taking money that the state was already paying for the programs that the state already instituted to the counties and was now shifting more money down to the counties and he also talked about property tax reform and I've done at least one interview and at least one press press conference talking about and and we also of those two things are in congruent. Like don't come talk to me about making hard decisions and then all you're doing is shifting costs down to the property taxpayers and you talk about affordability and property tax reform. Give me a break. None of this stuff is sustainable. It does keep me up at night and I'm pretty sure um I had more hair when I started this. That's my that's my two cents on that. So yes, please. No, you got to come up. So, um, the tens and tens of viewers. Yes. Yes. We're hoping [clears throat] to go viral and get maybe 100 views. You never know. >> No, it's just a You said you promote it. Promote the meetings. So, we saw the meeting on our property tax statement. Where are you promoting? You said you send press releases out and stuff like that. We don't have a paper, >> right, >> anymore. And we don't choose to get the Star Tribune if that's the paper of choice. But where all >> social media, we did our center press releases out and you never know who's going to pick them up, right? there's less papers to pick them up. But but on our website, we post all of those things. I probably need to do a little more posting on my own social media. Um I just uh it just feels so political, but the news needs to get out there. So that's that's how most I don't know what other channels. Um >> most of ours would be off our website, our social media. This meeting always would be on your tax statement. It would be on our website post. >> That's when the bad news hits. That's why we >> Right. No, I know. Well, and I get it. We try and make sure we have things in the scene. >> We do. And and here like look, I I get this. >> Life is busy. Like for a long time, I was raising kids, you know, trying to get to all the activities like, you know, it's like, oh, you get these statements or just any bill. It's not just tax. Like, oh, you feel the weight of it. But I had to get my kids this. I And then kids grow up. I'm like, oh wait, I'm going to get involved in this thing. Figure this. Try to be part of the solution, right? So, I get it. Life is busy. Now I got grandkids, so it's even that much busier, which is awesome. Um, so yeah, we all of these meetings are always noticed on our website. Um, I don't know if they're hit on if the meeting notices would be on Facebook, but you can certainly sign up on the website and think and get notifications. Just >> emailed you. Y >> I didn't know that. >> So that's just it's just an opportunity. Um, and yeah, with less papers, it is hard. So we we just we put the press releases out there, social media, and then you know, whoever picks them up because we [clears throat] can't force who's going to pick them up. >> Do you have that in the since our only paper is the scene? Do you put in there like, "Hey, be notified. Email us here and get on the emailing list to be >> I think that has been on there. I I don't think it's on there every issue." [clears throat] >> Just Yeah. Yes. Good point. Good point. Thank you. >> Well, we we had a hand up over here. >> Yeah. Brandon. Brandon, >> welcome. Good evening. We We are going to get to people. So, if I get out, I just saw a couple hands over here before, so I'll try to look over. [clears throat] >> Name and address for the before we get rolling. >> Yeah. Thanks for announcing my name. >> Sorry. You got to say it anyway. Sorry. >> Uh Brandon Przniki, 4875 East 250th Cedar Lake Township. [clears throat] Um so I I just want to tell the board that um this year I got a raise, which I was pretty happy about. It was like 2.7%. I feel like I do pretty good make a good living. It's not quite as much as the county administrator which is posted online. Um however I I do feel like I um got a decent raise this year and my property taxes alone along with the school levy and new [clears throat] is going to eat that entire entire uh raise. Um, which makes it tough because as you guys know, I probably have other expenses. You guys are dealing with inflationary pressures as well. I'm sure that's part of the levy increase. Um, everybody is. However, um, you know, and this letter came out, right? Um, I I talked to Leslie and some of you guys probably a little bit. Um, I didn't this wasn't wellreceived to me. Um, you know, we talked a little bit about the um unfunded mandates, which is probably my new least favorite word of all time now that I'm learning more and more about this. However, um you know what what isn't shown here is, you know, it starts off with the federal beautiful bill. It goes down to the state. Everybody's passing the buck on [clears throat] and on the line here. Um, but the last layer here is the taxpayer of course, right? So, as this gets passed by, someone's got to foot the bill eventually, and that's us. And so, when I look at my statement here, um, just so everybody knows, I bought my property in 2019 for $450,000. And, um, in 2025, that's 556. I know we're not talking about valuations, but for context, >> I want to give everybody. Okay, so that's a pretty good increase. That's almost 20% over five years. And this year, it's jumping another 100,000, which is 17.15%. Which is I mean, I don't feel rich by any means. Um, but it is what it is. The line item percent tax for the Scott County line here has gone from 1538 to 1963 which represents a 27.63% increase. So that is quite substantially higher than even the percentage increase. One thing I'd like to point out here is um again this letter talks about it makes it re the reason this wasn't wellreceived and I talked to Leslie about this is it makes it sound like the whole reason is because of this without providing any numbers which I question if it was approved by legal or the attorney [clears throat] because when I asked for the numbers and these numbers that Leslie gave me were actually different than you provided on the slide so I was having a hard time matching them Um, but there are uh numbers, you know, based on the state cuts and the federal cuts and what impact that has on the budget. And I mean, Leslie has this if you guys want to see this. I have tons of notes scribbled all over, so I don't know if you guys want to see this, but um this represents about $3 million between state and federal kick the can type um costs, which the budget, if you look in the back of this thing, is going up from 89 to 98. So that's $3 million. So this isn't the whole reason that our taxes are going up. So I think this is again this is not wellreceived because there's no numbers or percentage impact. Another complaint I have is I know when a property taxes um or when the values go up the time to argue that is in the spring. What one suggestion I would have um when that comes up is it's nice, you know, as a property owner when you feel like, okay, I'm I got a lot more equity in my property, but you don't know what that means until the tax levy you get this letter, right? And it's too late to argue. And that's fine, but how do you know what to argue when you don't know what you are relative to your peers in the county, right? So, I don't know if a 17% increase is is that normal for the rest of the county. Is that, you know, where am I? I would like to see in the spring letter when that comes out, what is my percentage increase versus the rest of the residents in the county because then that would give me perspective if that's fair or not. Um, >> you know, over [clears throat] the years, um, I've come to understand this. The budget is like a pie. If you can imagine the budget being a pie, [clears throat] the levy is [cough] how to pay for the pie. And your assessed value is how big a slice yours is of that paying for the pie. So, you know, the thing to argue in the spring is if you have an unfair [snorts] assessment of your property, if in other words, if they say it's gone up $100,000 and and you really feel it's not, that's a time that's what you need to fight because it isn't just our budget that affects what you pay. It's the assessed value. It's a that's a large dynamic. So, uh, >> with all respect, uh, John, that was my my point is, you know, I don't spend, you know, hours and hours. I'm not a real estate expert, >> right? >> I don't, you know, I don't know. I see Zillow and it seems to match up and that's great, but I don't know if mine goes up 17%, but people in Shakipi doesn't go 17%. You're going with the analogy of the pie. I when I was on the city council of Elco New Market, the administrator um explained it to me as you know as the water rises all the boats are floating up the same. Some boats are bigger and that's you know houses are different. So, I I I I get that. But what I'm saying is I don't know if my property is unfairly getting uh valued higher to other people like in Shakape if I don't have a perspective of what the other I I can't sit there and look online and look through everybody's houses and see what their values are. I don't get that information, right? >> So, I think it would be good for two things. in the spring when the assessments come out, see like a percentage value of the county overall so I can compare that to my personal property and see and kind of get a perspective. Is that fair or not? Does that make sense of >> Yeah. The but the thing is um the boats don't all rise the same way. In other words, lakeshore property may be going up much higher. commercial versus residential. Sometimes they go up at different rates and so but and that all determines the slice slice of the pie that each of the properties whether it's egg or commercial or residential is going to pay. So, you know, you could we could have theoretically a zero budget increases, zero levy increase and your taxes could go up if your assessed value went up. So that's why it makes it difficult to to >> prepare. So I think we're saying the same thing is until I get this letter in the fall, I don't know what >> how negatively or skewed impact I'm going to get when the levies, we don't know the levy is going to be 10% until the fall. Um, one other, uh, piece of feedback for the spring I'd like to see is, uh, I'm a well over this 12% um, threshold for a potential rebate. And Michael actually brought this up that there's a potential I get a rebate. >> That would be good to see in the spring because I think you're going to have a couple people at least in Cedar Lake Township that are going to hit that threshold and might want to apply for that rebate. It's not based on income, it's based on percentage. Um, I'm going to have to wait until 2027 to get that, but um I'm definitely looking forward um to applying that. So, I would uh recommend sending that out. Um, and that's [clears throat] the point I'm trying to make here is basically goes in line with number two of the sheet that you sent out. Um, okay. So I do think um so going back to the the number lev or the dollar amount levy in here that's federal and state kicked down here is not the full amount and in fact it's 3 million off of 89 million. So we got like $4 million in the budget left over and um I I think we can do better still. I think there's some room to cut. I know that there's um a lot of stuff you're handcuffed to to doing the state programs and stuff, but there still seems like there's room. There's still numbers missing. And I get that flation is going up, but that's 3%. I I'm still seeing 2 or 3% to go just off rough numbers of what I'm seeing here and inflation rates. So, I don't know. There's something else. And I talked to Leslie about some ideas and I'm not again I'm not on the council looking at everything or not on staff but you know we have a newspaper someone even talked about it like I do we ha are we mandated to have a newspaper and that that has cost I I don't look at that thing it's not obviously people aren't looking at it I mean to getting informed based on that it's kind of deprecated it's old there's probably other things you know that those staff can be doing um besides and paying for printer and stuff like that. There's probably other examples. That's probably not a big budget item, but I do definitely feel um like the like we could do better. Um again, um you're our last line of defense, right? So, federal is not going to help us out. State's not going to help us out. County once you uh pass a budget, we got to get stuck with that bill. So, and um again, I have other costs, right? I other costs are going up. Foods I got to pay for that. So, I got to do some cutting. So, I'm not going to have a raise anymore to account for that. So, that's it. >> All good points and thank you for coming and being engaged and having those conversations. And Leslie wants to >> Yeah, I I want to thank Brandon. We had a really nice conversation the other day and um it will make our insert better next year. I think having the numbers in there in percents that was we're so used to working with the numbers it's automatic. So I I do appreciate that comment. Michael in March when you present to the board um do you actually at that time have the percents? You you kind of do it by neighborhoods but you also do it by city. Do you know the percent increases when you do that presentation in March? >> Yes. Thank you Mr. Chair and members of the board. Annually I do the assessment presentation at during a county board meeting. We also put that out online separately. And during that presentation in March, we do have the average home increase by jurisdiction which uh you know we could slice in different ways as well. Um but it is available to the public in March the the differences between different jurisdictions and the value changes that were implemented. So if Cedar Lake went up at a higher percent than Helina or whatever it is that you could compare they that is available in March when that statement goes out. >> Correct. >> So we'll have to figure out how we communicate that so folks can see it. All right. >> By jurisdiction you mean township. Is that correct? >> Yes. By each individual township and city that average change is available in March. Correct. >> I know there was a hand back there camouflage hat. And then we're going to I think there are some hands over here and then we're going to go right this way. So, >> hi. Thank you. >> Welcome. >> Hi, Mike Marovich um over at 714 Fifth Avenue West here in town. Um the you said the 8% increase that assumes a lot of the federal. [snorts] Is that true? So I think if if everybody here looks objectively and not politically, we know that the federal government is changing very rapidly. Decisions are being made quick. So what mechanisms do you have if that 8% isn't needed? Like if it turns out that this is just a tool that he's you the federal government's using and you know we only need 3%. Now, do we really want to wait another year or two years for hopefully getting a reduced levy, or are there, and this is civics, I don't know this from a county level, are there mechanisms to back out once you're in there? Is there like a six-month review kind of deal? >> Thanks. Um, unfortunately, no. There isn't an opportunity mid year. So once we establish the budget, that's what establishes the property taxes that go out and we don't have the ability to adjust that mid year. So it's this is where we set it. We set it as late as possible in the process where it's the last meeting really before we actually start living in that budget for the next year. But there's not a mechanism to reduce it until we go through the next year's budget where it can offset other cost increases. And I would also just say that if if because like I want a plan. Um I don't want to be caught short, but if we have this contingency that is not needed, we're also not a place to be like, "Oh, we have a million dollars of uh we have this budget. What we need new boats, we need no doesn't happen that way." >> Um there's very specific reasons, very different specific buckets of different money. We also don't want to be caught shortened and oh um it is June 2026 oh we missed this um you know and we have to do a bunch of budget amendments and then it hits you the next year. So yeah it if if the bucket of money is not needed the program goes differently or or whatever then that's going to go towards the next year. >> So so I missed your first name so I apologize Mike. So, um, when Danny showed the first numbers when you got your statement, that was the 9.97% levy increase. So, part of that work to come down. You will see a reduction in the county when it actually comes out in April. So, we brought it down to 83. Part of that was cutting some of the federal ones that we think now are funded, Barb, right through next October 1st, right? they're funded. That part of what we were the federal bill hadn't been decided right in September when they had to pass the levy. So, as Danny said, we didn't know if the child block grant, the welfare block grant, if TANF, which is a teen and child program, would be funded. And what's the other one I'm missing? But there were three big ones that were about 1.7 $1.4 million in there. So that is what has been removed and lowered the levy down to the 8.3. There still is you see a contingency line in there that would then just be part of our fund balance. And every year as it grows a little bit, we do have to increase that fund balance. So that's where that contingency is. If something changes where we have to cover the SNAP or the Medicaid, we would have it for that. Otherwise, it doesn't get spent. It's called a contingency. So, it's not in the budget. It would go to that fund balance. >> Some questions over this way. Welcome. Thank you for your patience. >> Thank you. >> Well, good evening everybody. >> Good evening. >> Um, give an address just for >> Oh, yeah. It's uh Jeff and Kelly Van Heel uh 22620 Panama Avenue. And I'm just wondering if anybody knows the status of our mail service. So >> on that road, >> yes, >> we just recently had had our mail service cancelled and then we got our property taxes went up 20%. And we're just frustrated and wondering if anybody knows what's going on with that. >> Yeah, I have not heard uh Have you heard anything? Yeah, we actually Yeah, we actually heard Well, this is a issue about the mail the postal service not delivering along your road along your road every anymore because of the shoulders and not being too dangerous. And so last night we were at a meeting with all the township folks and heard more about it. Um still trying to look for alternate places where where group mailboxes can go. Unfortunately, we have no oversight over the postal service. I know the township and and we as our transportation department trying to work with them to come up with options, but >> unfortunately we can't tell them what to do. >> So, I I I don't know what >> what to do. That's what I took out of last night's conversation that we're going to try and talk through things, but we can't >> we can't make your road bigger like this either. So, it that's some of the troubles. >> Mr. Do they provide you a PO box like a post office box at the >> We just have to go to town to the post office waiting in line a lot of times and get our mail >> but you wait in line for half an hour sometime this time of year for sure. >> Can't you Is there no boxes that they can set up for >> free or anything? because I thought that there was some sort of they had but we're looking at some things, you know, possibly there's a a property out there on uh is it uh >> 190th >> 190th in Panama, you know, that maybe we could put up a bunch of boxes out there, but that's owned by somebody. >> What is that? Spring Lake County >> Township. We're in >> Cedar Lake. >> There's a little bit who's in Cedar Lake there. >> Oh, a few. Okay. Yeah. So, we're looking at some things and but you know, everybody owns somebody owns the property along that entire road. And so, we got to figure out how we could do that or where we could put a big and they're not cheap either because they're secure. And >> what I don't understand why why can't they put strobes on the back of the the mail truck like they >> they do on I mean they deliver on every other road. >> Yep. >> We still have garbage service. >> Yeah. They still deliver packages from the mail service, but they don't won't deliver our mail, >> which doesn't make any sense to me. >> No, it doesn't. So, >> I would encourage you and I can, you know, we can maybe send something out, but I know I've had several constituents in other parts of the county reach out to um our congressional representatives about it as they're trying to put So, continue to do that. like they're the only I mean even the post it seems like they can't boss the post office but at least they can boss them better than we can. Um >> and she's been involved on other things too. >> So who's in charge of it of of these mailboxes? >> It's federal. So it' be Congress or senators, United States senators. So >> yep, >> the post the post office themselves gets to make the the we don't get any say into which highways they deliver on. And you know, one of the big changes has been the width of the driveway, right? So when new driveways are installed, if they're on a county road at all, they're wider so they can pull in, right? And and deliver the mail. >> Um Yeah. >> What is it? Is it >> mailbox up our driveway? They can come in and do go right around our driveway and put mail. We have a mailbox up by our house. >> And so you're still in the Prior Lake delivery area. Do you have a Prior Lake address? Okay. >> Oh, you do. So you're So you're not far enough where you're into the like the last house of the >> on most of it's in Spring Lake, but some [cough] of it goes into Cedar Lake. >> Yeah. >> I just heard about it last night how bad it's gotten. >> They tell me at the post office that it's out of their hands and they said it's it's up to the the township now. And it's like, well, we don't even have a township headquarters. >> No. And if if they're saying that, they're probably saying because the road's not wide enough. And that road probably isn't going to be wide enough in there for a while >> lifetimes. I don't know how yours, mine, I don't know. But it is a federal jurisdiction. >> Cuz we just came down 27 today and they're delivering mail along there and it's basically like the same thing. >> Exactly. >> Yep. >> Is there a little more room on that? A little? No. >> No, I don't think so. >> It's like the same. >> No. >> No. And I worry that if they did it on your road, are they going to do it on other roads? >> I got a lot of junk mail they can keep. So maybe they take you off the [clears throat] list, put you on it. I don't know. >> Yeah. So >> So nothing really >> nothing. I mean when we see like I know Angie Craig comes to town to do different ribbon cutings, whatever. And we things like this that come to us that are federal matter we take up with our federal delegation um on your behalf, but we we can't go to the post office. It's just the structure. >> I would love, believe me, there's a lot of things I'd love to be able to tell the state. Um, I've got some ideas to save us some money here. >> Um, but from a we can't tell them to deliver or not deliver. >> There's a sad state of it. >> And then, uh, for is it is it Patrick that was up or who Brandon Mike? >> Oh, Brandon. >> Yeah, we were we talked to the um assessor before this meeting and he said um Cedar Lake went went up. The taxes went way up. >> Yeah. I talked to him too and >> seems like >> so it's not everybody in the county. It's like it's just >> I'll come back to the podium. >> So we've got gentleman in green I think. Yep. Please come on up. And then Michael, if there's something you want to say after we have >> I I didn't know if you wanted to respond to Cedar. >> Do we want to have maybe Sorry. Now you walked all the way over. Michael, give us a little brief course on how many 60some property classifications and how that hits and mass appraisal in like 30 seconds. Can you do that? >> Absolutely. Thanks again, Mr. Mr. Chair and board members, um we did get a lot of calls from Cedar Lake Township because of the value shifts that happened this year. And in March when we reported when I reported at the assessment update, Cedar Lake Township properties residential on average went up about 15%. And that compares to a countywide closer to 3-ish%. [snorts] So, that's a big shift as we've talked about of your piece of the pie if you're in Cedar Lake Township. Uh, and the only two points I want to make to that is number one, it's not because the county wanted to increase values or tax revenue from Cedar Lake. The county doesn't get a penny more if Cedar Lake residents pay it versus someone else. It's all driven by state statute and the rules that we have to be at a certain level of assessment when they compare the sale prices of properties in Cedar Lake Township to how we have them assessed. So, if we're below the acceptable range, we have to increase values. And that's what happened. And it also was not because we had them too low to begin with because we left off the prior uh study with Cedar Lake well in the acceptable range at 96%. The range is 90 to 105 and we just came in starting with the next 22 sales that came in last year at like 82%. So we had to do the 15% to get it back up in the range. And then the other thing we've noticed with a lot of people that called, I'm not going to say everybody, every individual case is different, but Cedar Lake was also not going up as much as other areas in the county the prior two years. So, we talked to a lot of people that actually had tax reductions overall in in Cedar Lake Township in the two years leading up to this year. Not that it makes you feel any better this year. I just wanted to point that out that um it go it cuts both ways. So sometimes you're actually going down when the rest of the county is going up at a different rate and it's all just comes down to those sales. >> Maybe the property classification is there a brief summary of like how many different classifications there are and these properties fall into these different classifications and then they go into the I don't know if they go into the ether or the quantum vacuum, they go someplace. Um, >> yeah. So, Minnesota has what is said to be probably the most complex property tax system in the country. Um, we do have I got some handouts here. I'll I can leave them by the table or we can hand them out, take one and pass around. But these are the actual classifications in the state and there's about 60 of them. Most states have four, you know, residential, agricultural, commercial, what you would typically think of a property type. and we've uh segmented that plenty further in the state of Minnesota. So, it does add a layer of complexity as to what rates are being applied to your value. So, it's not only valuebased, I think is kind of the point, Commissioner, that you're making is >> there's a whole another list of potential classifications that impact your tax rate before we ever apply the the levy rates. And you also mentioned that you're that what is it 90 to 105 the assessed value has to fall into the window of 90 to 105%. Otherwise, >> correct? >> By statute, >> by statute, >> and if you fall outside, either low or high, what can happen? >> The state does their own study in June every year after we've finalized everything and went through our appeals processes. And if they determine that the level of the assessment in any jurisdiction is lower than 90%, they can across the board increase everyone's value in that jurisdiction. For example, they could say, "We're increasing everything 10%." And if that happens, as I said, it's after the appeals process has concluded. So, we never want to disenfranchise the the citizens by setting it lower than it's supposed to be by their mandated range and then having them come in after you've lost your right to appeal outside of tax court. So, so that's why we have to do what we do with keeping those values within that range. This is one of those meetings that can be like, "Do I take the red pill or the blue pill or whatever that was back in the matrix days?" And I hope you're still all happy that you came because I sure am. Knowledge is power. Okay, sir. Please. [clears throat] I'm Terry Holesinger. Um, 26225 Eemo Avenue, Cedar Lake, don't you? Um, I've lived there since 1995. I run a small business. Um, and I've been doing that since I don't know 82. Um, but I've been in the area since 1995. Actually, I actually I lived in Lakeville before that for f for 10 years. So, anyway, um, I bought in 1995 10 acres, $180,000. >> Good times. >> Yeah. And the house was built in 1975. So it was 20 years old then. It's 50 year old 50 years old now. And I tore down an uh double garage and put up uh uninsulated pole building. Put a new roof on in 2002 and put new windows in about 10 years ago. Still got the old cabinets. Still got yellow countertops with brown sink, you know. So, I'm sitting there looking at my taxes [clears throat] going up $133,000 [snorts] this year. And I'm kind of like, you got to be kidding me. 20 over 26%. And um and I believe Cedar Lake Township is [snorts] probably the only township around that doesn't have a city or a town in it. Does that sound right? >> No. Spring Lake, a lot of them don't. It's not. Um, so anyway, I was told that years ago. Um, so anyway, um, I'm looking at this going, "Holy cow, what's going on?" And then I read, you know, because of, uh, the big beautiful bill that, uh, the SNAP and Medicaid, which huge fraud going on. I'm kind of like, okay, so if there's hu huge fraud and they're going to be tearing into that right now, you know, my taxes are going up because of what's going on. I know I doubt if our county has a lot of that. I know I'm it's up in Henipin County and Ramsey and, you know, the cities is where a lot of that's going on. We all know about that. It's all over the news. Um, so anyway, yeah, I'm um pretty disgruntled. I like coming here. You guys seem pretty sincere about everything you're doing. I've worked hard all my life. Never been on unemployment. I worked right through CO. I'm getting to the age where I'll be 67 in a little over a year. Wasn't really planning on retiring yet because I really love what I do for work. and uh and you know, but I'm looking at that between the taxes and my homeowners insurance has almost tripled. It went from 2,300 to 6,500. >> It's crazy >> this year. And so I'm dealing with an, you know, finding a different insurance company and and trying to go through everything and drop the prices down on what they've got in there and trying to get it down because I'm trying to get set up to eventually retire. And between the insurance and the taxes, I'm paying more than I did for my payments when I paid my place off from when I bought it. So anyway, I'll probably be right behind you. May have to move somewhere else, which I've got my place set up the way I'd like to retire. Got my little projects in the shop to work on and all kinds of things. But apparently, you know, I may go be going to another state with a whole lot less taxes. But we're getting hammered, you know, not only because of all the printing going on with the money printing and we're all getting robbed that way and then with what all is going on and and all these NGO projects that aren't no accountability, you know, nobody's auditing these programs and all this money is going everywhere else and we're all getting robbed and it's, you know, it's just taking everything away from us. So anyway, I wanted to vent a little bit. Thanks for listening to me. >> Glad you did. Thank you so much for coming. It's um people feel it and I think the word that we often use is >> none of this stuff is sustainable. >> So something's got to give and so that's where we try to push and the only good news, not the only there's a lot of good news, there's a lot of great news. Um, but it feels like some counties, we're we're have a big meeting coming up next week with different counties from around the uh state. Maybe there's some consensus of commissioners and counties like ready to push back more together on the state to um but you know try to get members of your family to get on board with the same thing. That's sometimes can be challenging. So now desperate people, different different political views and parties and um but I'm hopeful because it's not sustainable. Yes, come on up. Should have some theme music here. Make it interesting. >> Good evening. >> Hi, this is Mark Parish. Uh 1721 East 260th Street, also in Cedar Lake Township. Um >> we should have moved this uh meeting south. >> Yeah. Well, so >> y there we go. >> So, as it was stated, last year my my tax went down a half a percent. So, oh, yay for me. It went down a half a percent. Um, but this year, um, well, the reason what brought me down here in the first place was just the county, the top line, what this meeting is about, it went up 32.95% on my tax bill. And that's atrocious to me. my overall tax went up 21.5% and the valuation of my property went up 26.17%. And uh I got a young kid across the street, he's on the old farm there that was built in the early 1900s and his evaluation went up uh 26.84%. Um these are unrealistic numbers. Um some to me somebody wasn't doing their job last year. you should have raised it 5% last year, but it's on the valuation of the the houses that sold >> last year essentially. And there's been a lot of really, you know, mini mansions south of me on Verus. Um, twotory houses, fourcar attached garages on 10 acres, which is 50% swamp land. And I don't know how they got away with building that there, but anyway, that's beyond the the story. Um, but I just wanted to voice my opinion because I I just checked everything on 260th Street and around down Vergus and the properties were 17% 16% 19% 24% 26% 20 26% for my property, 20%, 18%. That's to me that somebody wasn't doing their job a year ago to increase the properties like that. And we're getting hit really hard. And just just for giggles, I I looked up uh Michael's property and and Savage there. The valuation on his property went up $200. $200. So, you know, it doesn't seem fair that Cedar Lake Township is just getting nailed. And I'm on social security and a small pension. So, yeah. And everything else, all the costs go up. Yeah. My health, my homeowners insurance, they tripled the uh hail and wind damage. uh deductible and jacked the pro policy way up to like the other person said. So that that's about all I want to say. I know there's no straight answers and I can't figure out why, you know, the county part of it went up 32.95%. Um it just seems like unrealistic numbers to me. So that's about all I got to say. Thank you very much for listening to me. >> Oh, absolutely. Thank you for coming and voicing your opinion. Uh, yes, please. >> As long as we're on a roll with percentages, we've our land is made up of four parcels, four kind of little ones and big ones. And on one of those, it went up 100%. 100%. Anyway, that's just for the record, but I just on behalf of the gentlemen and with the mail, I guess, um, I just wanted to maybe drill down a little bit. You know, you guys are great. I'm sure you, you know, you deal with a lot of stuff behind the scenes, but we come here because you're our elected officials, >> and I feel like they came all the way here to come to you to say, "Hey, can you do something?" Mhm. >> So, I don't know. He didn't ask me to say this, but I mean, who has whoever represents his area, you said when Angie Craig comes to town, but can't you just call on his behalf >> to try to put some pressure on them since your hands are tied? I know I've had theft. We've had stuff stolen with our mail. I call the post office and they just say, "Nothing we can do. You'll have to call Washington." you know, and so I've filed police reports and deputy came out to at least get it recorded. But it's very frustrating dealing with them. But I'm just asking, could you put a little more pressure on those people that might be able to >> She may live in town, so it might be quicker [laughter] than you think. >> Thank you. And good point. Yes, I already have emailed somebody, [clears throat] but I have really encouraged these folks. I'm sorry I forget your name, >> to call and to call both offices because I think, >> you know, I w I wish we had more power, but we shouldn't. We should. I mean, everybody here should have the power. The more people they hear from, the better it is. >> Jeff and Kelly are leaving here. Thank you. >> Well, yeah. So, I think that's what we can do and that's what I'll do too, you know, and and uh did, you know, we had an issue in Bell Plane and we just keep calling at, you know, their office. We hear what what they're trying to do, but to so far doesn't seem to be doing much. I and I just don't even know what else >> to do. >> But the answer is yes, because we we try to advocate on all kinds of different things that are well beyond our our purview as far as authority because we operate under, right? There's checks and balances, there's authorities, there's, you know, jurisdictions, boundaries, and all those things. That doesn't mean we're kicking the can down the road. It's just that we don't have the say in that. But, but I I've talked to her before on this particular not that specific issue, but it's not a >> on post office. >> Yes, it's a it's a large ongoing saga comes to mind. Um, but point taken. Point taken. Thank you. Okay, I got Brandon with a you pointing to this guy. Okay, that the gentleman from Cedar Lake Township yields his time to perhaps from Cedar Lake Township. We'll find out. >> Welcome, sir. Good evening. >> Good evening. My name is Lewis Locker. I uh live in 1100 Butterfly Lane, Jordan. Um I live across from Clare Roblane, our former US senator. Um you need some senator's names or numbers, I'll get you emails. I'm retired United Steel Worker, president Local 129. I uh can help you out. I'll get you the information. So, yeah. Love it. >> Um I just I got my tax thing, too, and mine went up over $500, and I can't even >> I don't understand that. I'm uh I built a building, six years ago, and I'm being taxed out of my home. I just recently retired myself, medical disability, blew my shoulder out. Um I don't know if I can afford to live. >> Mike, thank you for coming. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Yeah. So, I need you to um I guess a question as we ask the state is the other 86 c counties paying for the one county that burned down when George Floyd had his thing. That's a question that needs to be addressed and hasn't been addressed. Tim Moltz hasn't answered it. I asked him at a meeting a year ago at the United Steel Workers Convention and he wouldn't answer me. He was very vague and uh avoided me and I was upset about it. I mean, >> we deserve answers. He's an elected official also and he hasn't come clean with nothing. And now, like you said, with all the fraud, it's getting worse. We shouldn't have to pay for that. This is Scott County, not the state of Minnesota. This is our own county. We should be able to be represented and uh have a say and not be taxed out of our homes, you know, like these gentlemen here in Cedar Lake and stuff. It's ridiculous. I was a farmer years ago and I got taxed right out of my property because you couldn't afford it. You know, prices haven't gone up since the 70s, you know, and it ain't getting any better. Y >> um I appreciate your time. Thank you. Have a good night. >> Thank you so much for coming and voicing your opinion. >> People helping people. Yes sir. Please. >> I mean this is the beauty you know I don't know who coined it uh some former president or some speech writer but all politics is local. So we are local representatives and and do talk with many of the state certainly not all the state but our delegation and certainly our delegation from the feds. Um, we just have little limited power, but you together have all kinds of power, so it's super important that we band together on this. Yes, please. >> Hi, my name is Frank Dash and I live in Prior Lake, 3728, uh, Point Pass Northwest. And I guess I, this is the first meeting I've been to, so I got a couple questions just to kind of, you know, set my mind straight on a couple things. We're always obviously talking about property taxes and how we can mitigate mitigate that. What is the ratio of commercial real estate in the state of Minnesota versus our surrounding states? >> Good question. >> The reason why I asked that because if we can perhaps and how does so how does a state compare with the other ones? I know that sometimes the the some of the legalities and regulations in Minnesota restrict us from commercial real estate, but I got to believe that if we increase the footprint of commercial real estate, property taxes would probably go down a little bit. Am I >> Well, you're in Prior Lake. And so I know I live in Prior Lake as well. I always say I live in Shockbe, sleep in Prior Lake. Um anyway, I know one of their big my business is here so that's why um Prior Lake one of their big things is talking about how do we improve the footprint of commercial buildings in Prior Lake where shock me that when we're in different meetings, you know, with our different city officials shock people will sometimes be a little upset that the fiscal disparities um which is a whole different can of worms that some of that money that Shakipe because that does have lots of commercial space pays. This is the right terminology, but the fiscal disparities that shock me pays to cities like Prior Lake that has very little commercial can be an upsetting. Is that too strong or >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's a >> but that's how that's how it is a reality. And so so stateto state I I I did see something I think it was the was it the Minnesota State Chamber of Commerce finally not not finally that that sounds bad. There was a report that there was noted outflows from the state because we always hear about the state. Oh, we're number one one or two or three or four in taxes, but oh, we're best place to live. And I love Minnesota. >> Sure. >> Taxes drive me nuts. >> Um, excessive taxes. I always have to look to my left. I don't mind paying taxes. Like I want 911. I want my roads plot, you know? I want all It's the excessive taxes that drives me nuts. It's not sustainable. Not what you ask. Sorry. So, yes, there are different cities within our cute little adorable Scott County. first time I've always said that tonight. Um that has a very small commercial footprint and other parts of the county have large commercial footprints and so those even out by these fiscal disparities which means one entity sort of paying another but it's not exactly that way. So yes, your point is more commercial potentially could improve. >> So thinking about the state pie because we talked about the slices of pie earlier. If we can get more commercial businesses into the state, that can be split up based on percentages of counties and that type of thing and increase the commercial property taxes, which then hopefully in theory would lower the state's property taxes from a residential standpoint. That make sense? >> That's generally the math how it works generally. I'm looking at the professional. >> Yeah. I mean, Michael could tell you >> in a simplistic simplistic >> Michael could tell you within the county are industrial, but fiscal disparities has been a long-term and it usually has to do with the regional and state investments. Right? So, if you take a look at Shakape, it has had tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars invested in what? Transportation that allows that to grow. If you take a look at Prior Lake, >> you're what, five miles off of 35? you're off of 169, you become more of what a residential type of community. And so you still though have invested in the 169s, in the bridges, in the interchanges in 35. And that's where the concept of fiscal disparities comes back to is sharing some of those regional and state investments with the other communities that don't get that industrial commercial type growth. for years, right? Downtown Minneapolis had to share with all kinds of different parts of the state. And so that's where fiscal disparities comes from. It takes a look at where those regional and state investments are and tries to leverage the playing field a little bit. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Yep. Thank you for coming. Yes, please. Great. >> Brandon Presniki, 4875 East 250th Street, Sar Lake Township. I have a couple notes. I forgot and I got longwinded. I'll try to keep it short this time. Um, one thing, the mailbox thing that actually did come up in the Cedar Lake Township uh, meeting. I don't know if you rolled off at at that time or not, but I don't know enough about it, but it would be nice to direct staff to like make sure who people know who the p actual person is to talk to because it does seem like there's confusion because I think even during the meeting at Cedar Lake Township meeting which is at um the town hall there actually they have it once Tuesdays if you want to show up and talk talk about that. >> It's a church basement. Yep. >> The church basement. Yeah, it's I just found Yeah, get involved. So >> nice. Monday of the month at 700 p.m. >> Yep. So anyway, there was some confusion and because they're like, "Oh, it's a county thing." And no one really knew how to talk who to talk to. know if staff you guys could direct staff to just at least get everybody on the same page of who the responsible party is because you said it was government and it seems wishy-washy like if we could just get everybody on the same page of >> I'm just going to say it. Isn't it Angie Craig is the >> Well, I mean it's the federal government's only one who has any control over >> US Postal Service. >> Yeah. So, we just got to inundate our congressional. >> But she's usually pretty good about responding. Doesn't matter the blue or red. Like we play with both teams cuz that's who we deal with. She's usually pretty good about responding. >> Okay. But the township was confused, too. So, if we can like reach out to the township and like get everybody on the same page of how to direct their citizens, >> we can make >> and the senators, as this young man pointed out, >> she she just seems like so much more accessible. But you're right, they cover the whole state, >> right? The senators should be able to help, too. Uh, one other thing is, uh, during the budget projection, not this year, but the next year, there was some sort of debt service roll off of $2 million or something like that. As a city council person, that always drove me crazy when we're just like, "Okay, debt is rolling off and we're going to put it into something else." I just I'd like I would encourage the uh commissioners to press on that and get that $2 million number down to you know 1 million or that you're giving you know just when debt rolls off I just hate it just goes into something else without anyway um and last one last point is um you've heard a lot and I didn't coordinate this I I was actually talking about having like a tax protest outside and I talked to the the deputy and everything and I and I couldn't get enough love on social media. So, I'm really happy that this many people showed up. Um um one one thing that um we do um and I've brought this up to Leslie and Tom before is being from Elco New Market in general that area um is sometimes we don't feel like we get enough love from Shakape being on this side of the county. Now that's changed. I've talked to Tom Terry who's the city administrator at at uh and it's for the better like we feel like we're getting paid attention to the corridor there Niagara there's some development there that we feel a little bit more love but now you're hearing from Cedar Lake Township getting dinged on taxes and you know there's a road that I live on it's uh 56 and what 250th Street >> County Highway 56 and County Highway 87 >> and Um that sucker is I drive up that road and it's like bumpy and it's unsafe and there's a lot of hills and the visual is um it's borderline unsafe. And I know um talk I talked to Tom actually a couple years ago that that was on the road improvement project many years ago and it got dropped off cuz you said some soil samples or something were like blew it out of proportion. Yeah, >> I got uh I asked Leslie for what the road, you know, projects were that you guys are using the sales tax for and that's still not on there. And I think you projected all the way out till 2031. So that's that's a little disappointing that that's not even on the radar out there. And again, coming from Cedar Lake Township, we, you know, if our taxes disproportionately are going up because our values are going up, you know, let's see some love at our way maybe a little bit and you know, my might my health. So, >> so Brandon, I'll have those variables. It's part of the digging we're doing and if anything's changed. So, yeah, the the sales tax that the board implemented in 15 and then upped in 22. So they did a seven-year and then a 10 10-year half cent sales tax. Most of those have gone to complete the regional system, right? So it's been on 169, 13, 35 and two have some money set aside for it. Um 42 and then Marshall Road that connection. Um it will come up again for discussion in 2032. You'll have a board that will have to make some decisions. you know, at that point if they were to continue to implement it. It was interesting today when I sent it out to Brad and Tony that it is probably roads like county highway 27 or a county highway 23 because when you have a lot of rural residential, right, it puts pressure on the system at a higher rate, but you still have that rural environment. And so it does increase those volumes, not to a fourlane like the urban, but you have less folks, you know, in those vicinities to pay for it. So one of the discussions they're probably going to have to have at that point is on some of those, especially in the southeast where there's a lot more rural residential, if you want to reconstruct a 23 or a 27, [clears throat and snorts] you know, seven and 8 miles, that is a considerably sized project. And because of those narrow shoulders and slopes to widen those to six to eight feet, you start chasing a three to one slope, you're you're going to have some rightway impacts. So that's part of the analysis I think that will come forward here as you hit that 2030 timeline. >> The gravel road I'm talking about is east west. >> I know which one you're >> with your point is more [clears throat] residential traffic 27. The east west is also going to increase. Yeah, yours yours is a gravel road that gets into the benefit cost of what's the volume to pave a road and it takes a lot of years um at the volumes those were and that's part of what they're pulling right now is taking a look at that. >> You're up. Lloyd, you've been patient. This is two two for two today. >> Sorry. >> Nice. Good. [laughter] Oh, it's good. >> So, my name is Lloyd. I live in Prior Lake 17291 Marshfield Lane and uh I think it's very exciting that all of you showed up tonight. This is the most important thing we can do is to come to these meetings and share our points of view and then contact 10 friends or neighbors. start writing to everybody you know and have them call you know the right people like federal people and state people and whatever and that's how we get things done. So this is very exciting. Um I want to congratulate this group of people in this room. I I don't know if you all know how well some of us know how fortunate we are to have this group of leaders. Uh, I think we have probably one of the most skilled um commissioners, board of commissioners anywhere in the state. And I know they get so upset if they don't have the lowest percentage. They've been talking about this for years and years and years, like at least 15 years that I can recall. You always want to have the lowest taxes. That's cool. So that's good. But you have been working so hard for so long on efficiency and doing the right thing and it's just exciting to sit through your board meetings. I mean I learn things you go to so many meetings you all bring back something that it's like wow this is a good idea. here's a good way to cut 2% or a half a percent or whatever. I mean, these people are coming up with ideas morning, noon, and night. I've never seen anybody [laughter] that had so many kind of neat things going on. And it's Leslie, you can tell a lot of you have called her. That's a good thing to do. Call, find out, ask the questions, and she's pretty knowledgeable. You'll notice, you know, she's been at this a long time, as have the county board members. Um, what I want to say is maybe a little different. I'm excited about how dramatic Scott County has changed in the last 35 years. Uh, used to be kind of a sleepy area and you've all watched it grow. Uh, the SMSC has been a powerful influence. uh the racetrack. All kinds of things have happened to draw people. We have for years been one of the fastest growing counties in the state. That's remarkable. How did we do that? Well, bright people thinking of ideas. Uh you know, you were used to sit on the on the Shakabe board. Now you're here on Scott County, Joe Judy. So, thank you for you know, all of the work that you've done. Tom has been at this for a little while. Um, [laughter] Mr. Oric has been at it quite a while and you know, people are inventing things and it's all very exciting. What I want to say is, um, I've noticed that we have a very diverse community. Uh we had Russian people welcomed into our community a long time ago and they sometimes kind of stay to themselves but are opening up more and and you know joining the community. We've got very large Hispanic and Somali, Asian, black and a variety of diverse people here and they're all welcome here. We like having people move here, families that want to live and work in Scott County. So, it it's an exciting place to be. Um I'm concerned about kind of what what we're planning to do with the leadership in in our own employee group. Uh I hope that we are identifying skilled people uh especially diverse leaders uh people that represent the community that can share with us you know what are the core values that each group has um how can we reach out to everyone to make people feel welcome and to celebrate all of the good things that are going on. So, um, thank you so much for all you're doing. It's a phenomenal effort and congratulations on all the great work. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Just have a >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I Yeah. I noticed that when the year 2030 or 2032 was mentioned, there was kind of like, you know, kind of or maybe a laugh or a giggle or or a a gasp. And, you know, I became a commissioner in 2020 uh in in 2001. So, I've been here 25 years. And um there's some projects that are just now being completed that have been on our agenda all those years. So, you know, government isn't the fastest thing, but we're making steady progress and we're we're always trying to improve the lives of our residents and and and do the right thing. And uh but it is a a marvel how how sometimes something takes so long, you know, but then it seems like it flies by too. you look back and I go, I can't believe we were talking about that 25 years ago and now it's done. So that's just a commentary. I guess >> it's a good word. Anyone else? Two people getting up. Are they leaving or are they coming? We're going to find out. Thank you so much for coming. >> Yeah, please come on up. >> He's got Oh, there you go. You got a folder. So, this could be an hour. We're ready. >> Anyone can take a break at any time if need appointment on Thursday. So, >> okay. [laughter] >> Um Mike Kelb's 8900 McCall Drive Savage. Um on I have some I'm a commercial, you know, small business guy, landlord, and I leased a small business. And uh the first question I have, I just want to make sure I have this right. Is the is the rate on residential is it 1.47? Does that sound right? Great. This is I the assessor gave me this stuff. I'm just making sure I got it right. [clears throat and cough] >> Thank you. Uh I it sounds like you might have been given an effective tax rate after considering everything, but the class rate is 1.25% on residential. There's a tier for homestead that's a little lower up to 500,000. >> Okay. Um, and then I was told the commercial rate is 2.74%. So, if I have those numbers right, >> you got the nod. I saw the nod behind you. >> Yeah. Which is almost double. And in in my buildings, I'm a small business guy, you know. I'm not I'm not landlord and I have small businesses as small as 1,200 ft in my buildings all in Savage, you know. I'm not leasing to Cargill or renting, you know, and so I'm watching these rates and it's it's crazy. I mean, they've went up on some of my couple of my buildings 46% in the last 3 years. I'm going, "Wow." And then I'm driving up and down 169 and I'm seeing these ghost buildings, empty, brand new, 100,000 ft. They pay no taxes, property taxes or zero. You know, it's tax increment and all this stuff. And I have my little insurance agency and another guy has a gun shop. And they're just going, "What is going on? Our our taxes in insurance is a third of what we pay." And then I'm watching these big guys owned by International Reeds, National Reeds paying zero. And I and I'm troubled by that. and and and they talk about the rate that the one gentleman talked about commercial, you know, I'm all for responsible commercial development, residential, too, but I [snorts] have fiscal disparity tax statements that 30% of it's fiscal disparity that's going out around the state. So, I'm just it it it's really troubling when you see these 100,000 footers paying nothing and we're just getting hammered. And then we got the uh you know the sheet about the state and the big beautiful bill. And it was curious to me that the number that the state wants and is pushing down, you know, to the counties and and including the commercial, what's paying almost double residential that that's almost the same number they're talking about for the fraud. That was a curious connection there. I went um so and [snorts] and I saw another transaction. The other part there's a big disconnect from what some of these numbers are on on these buildings. I saw a building that sold arms length transaction for 44% less than the assessed value. I mean how do you get that far off? And I see these buildings like in Bloomington the 8400 Highland Park building of 494. sold this year for 94% off what it sold a couple years ago. 94 right by Normandale Lake. And there's others downtown. 90. And I have the the articles right here. I'm happy to talk to anybody, show them what I have. So, and I happen to be one of 11 kids, too, 10 brothers and sisters. Uh, six of them have left. I talked to one of them here this evening on the way over. He said, "Where are you going?" And I told him, I said, "Oh, a meeting on property taxes." He goes, "It in 14°." He said, "It sounds like a good time." And and I guess my point is, I just feel like you guys are kind of getting out of control. I really do. Um, and the last thing I'll say is I heard in Ramsey County, I think it's fairly recent news that they had they were giving money. I'm not saying it's happening here to NOS's $38 million. I don't know, you know, I just heard it, but that's discretionary, you know, that's what Doge found the NOS's just, you know, at the federal level. Is that something you you think we have to be concerned about here in Scott County? Does that happen? Is there any money going to NOS's? Yeah, I guess that's a question. >> There are um there is money that goes to nongovernmental agencies or organizations, faith groups, nonprofits doing the work. And honestly, I'm one of the champions of that. Not necessarily what's happening in the state. Let me back that up. what's happening here in Scott County. We're working with faith groups that are either have a footprint in the county or very near the county that because my my whole goal is I want to lower the cost of government. >> Mhm. >> But also by by having better outcomes if you have better outcomes like don't treat the problem and then just gets kicked to the next generation. So that's the backstory of why like think like we have something called Damascus Way in some of our transitional homes for people coming out of either incarceration or they've been parrolled and they have no address. Well, do we let them go out and have no place to live and then our sheriff or the local PDs pick them back up and now they're in the jail cost us a ton of money or do we spend a little money on an organization that can help bring real transformational change to their lives? like that's a risk I'm willing to take and I'm not a big government guy. Um so that's that's the long answer to your question is yes from a county we do spend some money with groups that are not government agencies um to get better outcomes. Did I did I hit that right? >> Well, I just want to make the scope of the dollars he was talking about is minuscule compared to the numbers you just mentioned. >> Yeah. >> I mean >> how much is it could is that possible to get a number of what it is. >> Damascus a few hundred,000. I think that one's like 400 or 500,000 for Damascus Way. >> I thought it was 55,000. >> No, it's more than that. >> Maybe for the different things they do. The thing it is is for us in Scott County compared to some places, if we are contracting with a non-governmental agency, it's almost always to do something that we have to do and it would cost us more to do. And we've really worked hard over the past few few years as we've seen these other things happen to make sure that those contracts are in really good shape. They don't get paid until what happens what's supposed to happen happens. You know, they're all registered. And I think Leslie, I'll hit on that a little more. But um I I think it's all top of mind for all of us when we see some of when we see the fraud going on. >> Yes. yet, you know, an agency that, for example, has a group home that my brother lives in that we have to provide, you know, services for, they can provide it. They're a nonprofit. They can provide it better than if we had to set that up as a Scott County facility. So, that's the kind of I think when we're talking about nonprofits, that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about just gifts of money to go do what what people want. It's us contracting for a specific service. Well, it's interesting that you the one you just cited used to be a Scott County operation and we did devest ourselves of that and have a nonprofit to it and at a much lower cost. >> You're talking about the date treatment. Now I was talking about like where he lives but yeah same thing much lower cost. Is there a way that you know in all this reporting somehow that money like that could be added a line that says non governmental and and maybe listed out >> because people are getting >> oh >> suspicious of government. I mean [clears throat] the I've heard the two two term financially suicidal empathy >> and that's what's happening at the state level. you know, if you don't just readily hand it over, you're this or that and the other. And that's how we got into this trouble. And it doesn't seem like there's any accountability. I just don't want to see it filter down. >> I don't either >> to here. I And I'm a native Minnesotan, you know. I >> I'm happy paying my taxes. Not real happy, but >> excessive. I want Yeah. bang for my buck. Yes. And uh so >> and just on this topic, this is one of those things where you know I always say like I don't want to see this go a different direction or or I I don't think policy that's what I call it. all policy by pendulum meaning like oh this bad thing happened so whoosh everything goes over this way cuz I think we what we're doing here in Scott County and sure I'm biased but I believe in this is literally breaking generational chains that is going to lower the overall cost of government by having someone else that's has a track record of bringing transformation and hope into people's lives that I mean somebody has to want to right there has to be a willingness to change. You can't make somebody change, but if the environment is right, and I'm not talking touchyfey, kumbaya, I mean, there might be some of that if it's a faith group, which I'm pro that. um to bring about real change in someone's life that we don't see them again unless they're in our boardroom cuz now they're out owning homes and they're paying taxes and they're pissed off at us because the property tax like I want to see him here and so I don't want to go too far where then policy by pendulum something good something bad happens someplace else that we're doing something like it working with faith groups nonprofits NOS's you might see it I don't want to see that I don't want to see your hands tied here because it's working here. I want other people to see. I believe Scott County, I believe it's with all my heart, can be a beacon on the hill. In some ways, we are that other counties, other jurisdictions say, "What on earth is going on here?" Because something good is changing. You're delivering better outcomes for lower cost. What is happening? Let's Let's have coffee. I got lots of things to say. So, I don't want to see that go away here, but I I fully understand what you're talking about. >> Sick. >> Yes. >> Well, I believe we're we're all as frustrated and maybe even more so than [snorts] than the general public because we're we're thinking about these things every day. Something's come the wheels have come off in terms of accountability and controls. And it's just astounding. and we you know what's going on at the state and the state level and the you know the billion dollars and the seven or eight major frauds that have gone on that it's just >> it's crazy >> mindboggling so >> do you have any horsepower to push back >> what >> as a county against the state when they just say they sent out that letter and I was reading it with the tax statements in disbelief and do you have you know can you affect change >> we're trying believe We are trying. We testify, many of us testify at different committees. We're all probably talking to our state reps and state senators in our delegation and beyond um with data, not just, you know, chirping birds like here's what we you know, a lot of times you went to the capital. It's an interesting I'll just leave it at that. It's interesting, but we're all coming like, hey, you again, what I said before, if you love these programs so much, God bless you, right? you were voted on to do this. But send the money. >> Don't be a coward because that's where that's in my opinion. That might sound strong, but that's I I feel strongly about this. That's where it feels like it is. Own it. Then raise the Minnesota income tax. They don't want to do that. >> Some of them probably do. Um some of them want us to raise our taxes, your taxes. I'm like, I'm not I I can't do that. I have convictions that just don't let me do that. But own it. Don't hide your program, St. Paul, in our collective property taxes, it drives me nuts. I think it's cowardice. >> And we not only ask for more money, we ask for change. Um, we ask for change in the way that things are being done >> so that it's not as expensive as as it is. Um, [clears throat] like computer systems, we in health and human services, they're still 1985 on a green screen and they don't communicate with each other. So we go in and and so we have staff that have to spend a lot of time entering data >> into multiple systems when they could be actually serving people in the community. So that's one of the things that we do is is we go to the legislature and we we um ask for change in the way that things are being done so that's more cost effective for you >> and show them like again with data points and because imagine it's not because a systems like oh it's clunky it's not convenient. It's definitely all of those things, but imagine if we had a system systems that were tied together in one almost like a like an airport, if you will, with different terminals with these different departments all plugged into the same network, you know, the the same system. So that if there was some sort of a application being made for we'll call it Snap just because that's the flavor of the day. Oh, but that flags something over here because it's in congruent with what the data record shows here. But right now, they're all silos and they're all junk. They're old junk. We got a software guy back there. I know. >> Yeah. >> Well, no. You got you got >> you got to get up here because we want you on record. We can't we can't people can't hear you at home if you're not up at the microphone. So So yes, we are doing all those things. You also have all kinds of power by contacting your your state reps and state senators and your congress uh congressional district as well and senators. Um you do absolutely have power because sometimes I feel like they hear from us, oh here comes Dave again. Um but when they're getting phone calls and emails and and I know it takes time, I get it and I think sometimes they count on, you know, no one has time to do that. Um, but it's it I think it does speak volumes. They want to get reelected. I don't get it. But so when their constituents aren't happy, they they tend to listen. >> Well, and and I'm I'm about done. But the other thing is, you know, I I I paid a bill in Scott County, and I saw all the taxes. There's a transportation tax and a there's like three county taxes, isn't there? >> I can tell you I can read them to you. >> No, there there would be one county tax. The the county itself implemented the half cent sales tax which has funded the trans some of the transportation projects but there is an additional tax that came out in 23 in sales tax 3/4 of it goes to transit to the state of Minnesota quarter% of that goes to the local aid housing so those are probably the three specific line items that you're talking about but the county board only implemented the one and that is a timesensitive that's the one that expires I I think at the end of 2031 into 2032. >> Well, you all I'm saying and you talked about the income tax too. Minnesota is the sixth highest in the state and I just don't want everybody you hear about the exodus to other states, you know, and I just feel like we're kind of riding the edge. We're pushing it and then this fraud comes and you know to move the system along, we need wagon pullers. Everybody can't go for a ride. And it seems like we're getting more and more riders and the wagon's slowing down and and the fraud and the taxes and I just I like Scott County. You know, I've been here my whole life. So, >> I I love it, too. >> Yeah. And I just think one other thing we haven't talked about that I strongly believe in because yeah, I've lived here all my life and always will. And we we're going to continue this this fight about changing policy and working with the state and feds. But what I'm proud of is, and yeah, if we hadn't done this, it'd be worse. Private tax would be worse. But the best thing we can do is keep people working, not in jail, not beating their kids, not getting in trouble. Cuz every time one of those things happen, it costs us all a money. A lot of money. >> A lot of money. You know, it's way way better to help somebody get into treatment than wait till they do all eight different things and then we take their kids away and have to pay for foster care and then pay for them to be in jail and all this. And that's like we got to keep working on the state, but I don't want us to need all those programs. I want things to be better. And so I think I I really got to give our staff credit because they they think like that. And you know, again, I have four kids. They have blessings and challenges. And you know, one of them could get in trouble at any day. So, it's like when people do, let's let's redirect more quickly or have that quickly so they don't need to be in the system the rest of their lives because those that's what costs us a ton of money. >> Well, and a hand up instead of a hand out I think is is the way to go about it. But >> and the last thing is the uh these buildings that are empty, they aren't paying tax. It's brand new and a guy who's got a bait shop or auto repair is paying 2.74% property taxes, you're buying that building in 35 years, you're buying it again in full in property taxes. So when they say, you know, about business, you know, paying your fair share and everything, and that's that's just the property part. So >> can I I don't think there's empty buildings out there not paying taxes or a lot of them in my Am I right by that? >> I just looked up some of the ones I know are empty. They were paying 200 grand. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. Um well 200 grand for $100,000 or$100,000 foot building is I don't know what kind of deal they got there, but if you base it on what I'm paying I mean >> for these little things. Go ahead. >> Thank you uh Mr. Chair and board. It's true that uh if if a property is vacant, it still pays property taxes. Whoever the owner is is still responsible for paying >> unless there's a tiff or some sort of abatement, right? Obviously, >> they still got >> I I will show you this before I go. Here's the Minneapolis tower. Sells at 91%. >> I think I heard I did see that. That's crazy. >> Here's Normandale Lake. The one I talked about 8,500 tower. >> We should have pitched in and got that one for that. sold for 4 million. >> That's crazy. >> What happens with the taxes though? Who's paying them now? And do those get transferred to the people in Bloomington? >> They they do if it goes down. Yeah. >> And and these guys, so I don't know if they got special deals, Black Rockck or who, you know, if it's, you know, Carill or whoever it is. And uh we're at 2.7% for a little guy with a car wash. >> Yeah. Some of those some of those sales are are there's got to be more to it than that. >> Well, office got hit the hardest, but I just don't want, you know, in China, they have ghost cities, cities that have skyscrapers that are empty. When I see these 100,000 footers empty, I kind of go, "Oh, boy." >> Well, I I saw a story. There was a office building in Minneapolis, a big one. >> Yeah. >> That it sold for what you couldn't carpet it. You couldn't carpet the whole building for what it sold for. That might be what he was talking about. >> It might have been. >> Yeah, that's what I know. But thank you. >> Thank you so much for coming. Appreciate it. Did you have a software? You're going to fix it for us. You're the tech guy. >> We already asked. >> Yeah, that's going to give me nightmares. Um Brandon Presniki. Um just quick question. He talked about um you know what you guys can do and you were talking about a meeting of other commissioners with other counties. Yes. Can you just talk about what that is? >> Yes. So there's an annual meeting. Well, we probably meet what or twice uh six times a year. Boards, it's the association of Minnesota counties. We happen to have a board member extraordinaire on that particular association along with many others. >> Yeah. >> So, we belong to a a group called the Association of Minnesota Counties in which every county in Minnesota is a member, but as you can imagine, 87 counties, there's some real big differences in opinion. Um but we still are part of the same organization on the things we we can agree on. We we work together. So that annual meeting is is coming up. We'll have policy committees, you know, from public safety to environment things to human services. That's the other thing like there's so many different subjects within the work that we do that we have to just learn more about. So, um, and in some of the policy work, that's where we band together to try and impact legislation because if you have 87 people scurrying around trying to focus on the the key things we want to change. So, that's what's coming up. We're trying to be involved and and probably we are more involved than probably almost everybody on the county level is more involved than than 10 years ago because of all the impacts from state and federal level. And I know we talked about the financial ones and and yeah, they could have been worse and that's not all of it. But it's not just even those financial ones. It's about telling us how we have to do our work or how our staff have to do things. So sometimes we're advocating for changes, yes, in the funding streams that'll impact taxes, but sometimes it's about trying to impact things so we can make more change hopefully instead of just doing the same thing over and over. So again, yeah, in a perfect world, there we go. But but everybody has somewhat different opinions trying to find where we we align. >> All right. Is there any other Come on. Come on up. [snorts] >> I'm doing legs tonight at the gym, so my legs are killing me. >> And you took the longest uh longest walk, too. >> Yeah. I just had a two things. One thing I forgot to bring up. Is there anybody that's speaking about limiting these ebikes on sidewalks? Cuz I've almost got killed. >> 12, 13 year old kids. So, is that being addressed to >> I've been at least to two city meetings. Uh, one was probably Lake, the other one was shocked me. Well, maybe Savage, too. They're all dealing with the statute. >> These kids don't have helmets on. I just worry that nobody wants to make that phone call, but >> I just as long as it's being addressed. And the other piece is if we're going to have increased taxes over the next few years, is there some idea sessions that we can get like businesses where we can talk about ideas with the community and how to reduce costs? Maybe implementing hunting, um, archery on certain pieces of land that you own. Maybe opening up docks on some of the lakes to charge for people and charge people that live outside of the area fees that we take to lower our taxes. Let's be smart, too. So, I don't know if there is any. I'd be willing to share that. go to those if they had them monthly, share ideas, come up with more solutions. I don't understand the gaming regulations and if you can open up parks for hunting or if that goes to the DNR, but I really think that the if you're really trying to work on trying to reduce things, involve the citizens because I will come to more meetings. I haven't been to these before, but I will get more involved. So I would say open it up to to thinking about more ways to get revenue outside of taxation, you know, besides costking because everybody's going to do that. If we're going to be, you know, a leader, let's talk about other ideas outside of what you've looked at, maybe involving the community because that's what businesses do. They get the target, they do their sample, Dairy Queen, I sit in that 8100 building every day and I watch them. They try new samples on people, you know, new ice creams. Let's go think about ideas to reduce taxes and get revenue to the county through other ideas. >> Yeah, we have uh county advisory boards that or citizen advisory boards. Um they're all listed on the website. Um they usually have yearly openings. Um right now I think all of them are filled right now, but but they are they do have openings throughout the year. >> We might as well take advantage of revenue streams outside of taxes because I'm sick of paying mine, too. They did go up a Well, and I would also say like if because there are those committees if you see something like ah none of these fit like start one like you call us like sometimes a county can be a convenor because that's that's partly what we want. We want more community engagement you know talking about the NOS's you know the posit I feel like we're doing the positive side of that faith groups uh businesses nonprofits um like >> if you don't see it like let's make it happen. >> Yeah. I just thought I'd share that idea. Thanks. >> I like it. Thank you. Anyone else? I just I do >> really thank everyone for making the effort. I know sometimes it's that news that you know compels you to be here. Um our regular meetings aren't that bad either to come and check out once in a while. Um but this this has been good. Yeah. Michael Thompson. Here he comes. >> Very briefly, Mr. Chair. Uh, I just a very important thing I wanted to make sure everyone knows about is there's a special property tax refund. >> If your taxes went up more than 12% and that increase was over $100, you might qualify. Look on the state's website. That's a refund that comes from the state. >> Millions goes unc go unclaimed every year. So, >> the spring >> does that commercial, too? >> Unfortunately, no. Okay. >> All right. Thank you so much. We don't have to we didn't call it we don't need to convene. It's just a not a public hearing by being. Thank you so much for being engaged. And these meetings are always, always, always open to the public.