I believe it's recording now and we'll see how that goes um so I'm gonna kick it over to Mike um looks like all of our commissions are represented um so I'm really excited to hear um your thoughts and and your feedback on um the presentation tonight appreciate that Regina and again I'll extend gratitude to everybody especially on evening virtually um I I appreciate everyone gathering for this too as I pull up um really as Regina teed up here kind of a a point in time and and a series of Concepts and kind of where we are with the project so briefly Sorry probably we should have provided kind of a agenda for tonight I'll just kind of do a brief recap of um the project the kind of the intent the goals the vision of it um where we've been in terms of especially engagement um which all of you on this call have been involved with in many ways um and then actually walk through kind of the three lenses of our our Concepts right now and then uh I'll wrap up briefly with uh kind of where we go for the next couple weeks and Rel to the end of the calendar year too so I'm intending you know 20 minutes or so um at most probably that I'll walk through some of this um I want to preserve as much of tonight as possible to hear questions your feedback and have a discussion um with this as well too so um a brief reminder for these upfront slides again you've all seen most of this already but this is kind of the again the official study area um as I've told each of you in the past so we of course look Beyond um the the footprint that kind of golden area um indicated here but this being um the kind of more designated official area for the study area with um kind of downtown being represented here of course so again you've seen this but kind of the plan goals what do we tend to to elicit or deliver through this too um you can see there on the screen and if I'm to summarize all these it's really what is the series of both public and private actions necessary to move downtown into a more um vibrant livable walkable um place um that then kind of reaches a vision statement which I'll show in a couple slides here that um we've developed in our conversations with you all the public and other key stakeholders as well too so what you see on the screen here is really what the intended goal and outcomes of of the project and the downtown plan will be for um our engagement and kind of what we've done and where we've been you know we're really probably straddling this this feedback loop and final Vision we've already kind of to actually kind of progress and refine some of the more final elements as I'll note in a second but uh purposely intentionally having a three-phased engagement intending to have multiple feedback loops with uh various stakeholders yourselves included Regina's already noted the let's talk Savage project site which I think it's great that this will be hopefully be hosted on um that's been kind of the more consistent um sustained location for project updates interactive maps and um uh surveys Etc on there we've also had a series of inperson and virtual Outreach um to a series of stakeholders we've talked with each of you on here already about that we've moved from our upfront awareness and input um which is really just that data Gathering to now in the second um and almost a toe in the third as well too about this Loop uh feedback loop so what have we heard what have we done with it what's the series of recommendations or draft recommendations and Concepts um reporting that back does that feel accurate what do you think kind of getting feedback and refinement and then now our final Vision will be moving towards um over these uh waning months of the calendar year which is amazing that we're already talking about that it doesn't feel right that it's November soon um and again let's talk Savage we've kept up to date um we've also had a focus and I think thanks to many of the committee members uh on the call today too to ensure that Equity is considered um and a grounding focus of our engagement so um translated materials have been on there the left talk Savage page actually does have some options for um translation where people can access um um those we've sought out um Outreach with historically underrepresented populations and communities some of which you can see there um and so ensuring that as much as possible we we connect with those populations and ensure that their perspectives understanding and lived experiences reflected in this plan um and again kind of those recommendations being um reflected in the plan so I wanted to again kind of give acknowledgement and recognition as as um we certainly should so towards that effort again members of the equity commission we appreciate your past and continued support and recommendations in that regard so what have we heard um and we've presented some of actually all of these to to council already but I just wanted to ensure some level setting with this group um a couple highlights um that you can see here I I think if I'm to summarize a few of them uh more places for more people to do more things more times of the year just more stuff to do i' would say both for public programming as well as um private destinations more places to be entertained to eat to drink to shop and all that stuff into live actually as well too um we've talked quite a bit in our conversations with you all downtown is a very isolated place um at times it's it's been described as having a very utilitarian feel and it often lacks a lot of destinations certainly I will be the first to contend too there are many Fantastic places there today but the idea that there could even be more especially with a a more Broad and Regional appeal is something that we heard frequently from pretty much everyone we've talked to uh the relay ship to Highway 13 is complex but it's really critical to the relationship to downtown of course you have uh 50,000 people every day who pass by the north end of your downtown that's anticipated only grow in the coming decades how can the presence of visual appeel of downtown be elevated so you know one could say almost capture or Draw in um that really amazing amount of eyes that uh pass through downtown and then the idea of having more uh park space maybe daylighting the creek and and and you know improving the entry experience into downtown which we'll talk about a little bit more too which I think is is really interesting then I I wanted to juxtapose a couple things we heard in the bottom because uh on some of our comments are like it it's a loss cause why bother it's you know there's no there's no point in even pursuing it where other's like oh my gosh there's so much potential here this is so great like it's a couple tweaks here and there um and and certainly we're of the mindset that there's a tremendous amount to build on um already downtown I will in know I think it's a loss cause and um and all that so just you know it's interesting what you hear in feedback I think it's all Val but I wanted to affirm that um certainly there are opportunities for improvement and I think I'm I'm personally excited by that and I think we've got kind of a great road map that we're building alongside you all in that regard so I noted a bit ago about moving towards a vision um and this is the the the vision that we've been kind of refining along the way for this and I think we may have shared some of this already with folks but um at the top you can see a regional destination so emphasize the idea of it is it should be for more than just those who live and work already in downtown which is an important distinction um because that influences the types of land uses and public spaces and connectivity you have so a regional destination to live work play and I love this juxa position in the back half that both celebrates the historic identity of the district while embracing a modern approach to vibrant neighborhoods and I think it's a it's been a fun challenge for our team and and Regina and Angie that we've been working with of how do you kind of reflect and celebrate the identity of what Savage has been while embracing um a potential future where could be um and and really a lot of the comments and feedback that we've heard from people kind of challenging us to to lean into that so that's the ultimate vision of what downtown can move towards and then a series of principles at the bottom I believe again that we've shared most of these with you the only thing I really want to note about these is for each one we took purposeful steps with the language to say certainly it should be for um future and external benefits but really let's not forget those who already live and work in the city today and that um current uh resident and current employees and current stakeholders should also benefit this well this should not just be a plan for those who want to live or come here in the future but also for those who have lived here for Generations as well so a couple key findings and just this sets the stage for the series of recommendations which is what the remainder of the slides will be um this summarizes things that we've talked about with you in the past but I think uh worth noting at least one more time starting left to right there's a tremendous amount of constraints that are really ring around or surround the downtown Town not the least of which uh Highway 13 to the north what I'm kind of calling the green belt or that utility easement and wetlands to the South uh to a degree Credit River but really the flood plane and flood way around it that darker blue color on the East um and then you know Burnsville to the east but or to the I'm Excuse me the wetlands to the west but then you know Burnsville to the east we we won't pay that much mind of course but um then that being the edge so it's really this kind of constrained um downtown area that only has a couple points and and Maze to get into it and has some really significant um barriers and constraints that you're it's it's very difficult to kind of break past or break through them um likewise this one actually is really important um a series of modest partiel sizes so and I let me see I think I can zoom in here I'll try TOS um zooming in here each of those you can see that's a series of the the parcels and the Lots downtown each of those red are all lots that are less than a half an acre and what that tells us is that there isn't very many larger sites but more importantly for any Redevelopment to occur it's very difficult to get substantive Redevelopment of course on on Parcels that are less than half acre really less than an acre for some of the ideas that we've been hearing and kind of some of the the desires from you all Council in the public so what that means is some combination of city and private development community and the private Market uh will need to assemble lots and and that takes a lot of coordination um of course but we'll need to assemble Lots in order to deliver um much in the way of Redevelopment now I'm G actually the benefit of doing this on uh program like this as you can highlight a few things um some of these areas are already publicly owned such as what I'm we've been kind of referring to as the South Hamilton block um between the city uh uh between the city and the county Eda some of those are already owned so that that could be you know be a more earlier and more nearer term um Redevelopment opportunity as compared to many of these but really the takeaway in that is for change to occur almost regardless of where because there's so much read here uh it's going to take a coordinated effort and and really the Assembly of multiple properties in order to make change so that you know starts to for us um as I zoom back out here what are the tools that either the city or in partnership with the private development Community can uh can leverage certainly with willing sellers I want to make that very clear um to to invoke kind of an evolution of the downtown lastly um a concentrated kind of commercial core I'll zoom in again um especially kind of around 123rd um a little bit 24th with then kind of these decreasing concentric rings of residential density so again you all know your multifamily is just kind of this pinkish for the most part and then it very quickly becomes single family residential certainly not bad it's a fantastic mix of housing that's there today um but all of the current today retail and Commercial uses are up on along the northern Edge whereas um often not always um you know those being ringed by kind of residential or other uses all the way around can open up different opportunities I think with uh one of the Committees um or commissions rather we we spoke about there's plenty of examples where there's still vibrant strong downtowns that have an arrangement like this it just influences um what is the opportunities and options um as composed to if it was more of kind of centrally located retail so not bad just an interesting observation okay so what in the world does this all add up to um we have a series of Concepts that start to get um um Illustrated on on this graphic here that will walk through many of these um what our approach is to Concepts such as this are kind of when thinking about a a place and you know opportunities and recommendations and concepts for its future we think of three lenses um development and the buildings the physical structures that make it both public and private we think of the public realm um both the formal parks and but even maybe the less thought of of you know roadways Alleyways things of that nature too what are kind of the in between spaces and then connectivity so development public spaces and connectivity with that last one being both vehicles but also how do people walk bike roll around um as well how do those three systems much like systems in a body all work together how do those three systems work together to make a strong cohesive place so I'll walk through a series of these and I'm sure some people are like oh my gosh you're thinking that or you're recommending that I need to we're going to get through all this um and very much uh um we'll have time then for kind of questions and discussions and if if nobody's heart was racing a little bit right now then I don't know if we've necessarily done our job so um I want that conversation certainly we welcome it so let's start first with public space I I think one of the most interesting uh opportunities that we've explored this is the depot um parking lot today is actually thinking about what might a destination public space be within the downtown um and I'll splp back just one slide briefly this is that spot right up here um the depot uh being this kind of red red uh building right here this red box the depot parking lot adjacent to it so what might a destination public space be um in the future and I'm sorry it does look a little blurry on this side doesn't it um that could draw folks down be kind of an entertainment activity Hub but then actually be complimentary to the depot or maybe even the future uses of the depo and then the streets um that are rounded today and we'll look at the streets here in just a moment so we've been Towing around IDE did and I've met um with Greg and sang and other members of City staff as well too to bet these and um I I think it's safe to say there's a lot of excitement about the potential of an idea such as this doesn't necessarily need to be exactly what's shown here with maybe some small Amphitheater space or kind of a performance small performance stage maybe there's um you know a small Splash bad and kind of dining area um adjacent to let's just say that you know the depot had an opportunity to kind of open up more and had more you know walk up counter for example um maybe there's aace a way to add on restrooms um and kind of that that space necessary for a splash pad on onto a Depot maybe the depot dining can continue to spill out as it starts to today um have much more kind of an active destination space similar maybe there's recognizing the role that the um Depot play or the the um parking lot excuse me plays for the farmers market maybe they're semi-permanent or even permanent kind of um shelter structure space that could be um raised on what we're showing is the North End of the plaza and kind of be that vendor space um in the future too now certainly the Keen ey has noticed is that you know this would in fact then require some of that much of that parking about half of it or so um to accommodate a plaza space such as this and that's of course a consideration for any of these is um there is a a wide swath of parking really all throughout downtown with um about 80 or 90 spaces I if I remember correctly at the at this parking lot um and that's kind of you know part of this is and not really shown or discussed so much tonight is um moving towards or having an awareness of more um one could say like a district approach to parking where there's multiple places to park ideally on the edges and maybe some still here um for people to get to comfortably get to many different places within downtown um I know there's been past um parking studies and we actually did a utilization study as well where we counted all the public spaces specifically west of Lynn where most most of our attention is focused everything west of land public on street and off Street um and the there's plenty of parking spaces we we did week day week uh weekday during the day and at night or in the late evening excuse me and then same with weekend during the day and then kind of on I think it was a Saturday night as well certainly there's a spike in usage on Saturday night but when you look at kind of this entire let's just say I'll go back quick 678 block area kind of this core area in downtown um there is always plenty of places to park it just might be a block or two away and it might be on Street maybe some off Street on a parking lot on a a public lot excuse me so but something certainly that we're aware of and are kind of considering we'll have a series of recommendations on of how can the city um kind of continue to provide parking well uh knowing that um there may be some some different uses or maybe some better and higher uses in some locations so I know we'll get back to that one as well too um continuing on um and kind of keeping with public space a bit but this again the key I will have noticed on that last graphic that 123rd streight looked very different and and idea that we're suggesting or exploring is what if 123rd I might just keep flipping back to this graphic um from um Princeton I believe it is over to land these three blocks in particular what if these were transitioned more into an event type Street or kind of more of an active Street and could it look something like what we're looking at here where the current diagonal parking would need to be shifted and and shift it to parallel which again would have a bit of a change in the number of available spaces but what that does is unlock a tremendous amount of space to widen the sidewalks um have you know still trees and and maybe different kind of uh light poles and seating maybe there's um you know one could even imagine some some kind of flat curb space too where let's just say the depot is on the left side of this image here maybe a block or two is closed off for farmers market and vendors are up in the street too or there's a concert where Regina breaks out her guitar and Angie's singing along um and we're having an event in 123rd Street at night and and everybody goes and runs into n's because uh n excuse me because of the singing quality but um it's you know it's it's ideas such as that of course um where where 123rd can be more of an active event street that can actually be programmed maybe in adjacency to the plaza and then we we're toying around with different ideas of you know way finding the monumentation um I think we we talked ear that Jos of the old and the new if I can kind of classify that way maybe there's kind of a gesture to some of the more um industrial and Shippy nature with some of the materials of the district as I zoom into these um and even you know again this the uh noticing kind of the street pattern and the river um kind of on this graphic maybe the that blue can light up and be illuminated same with the lettering um and kind of reflecting a bit of the old character um while providing I think some some interesting you know wayf Finding gateways public art Etc so things such as this um likewise oh my gosh actually here's the one I was hoping to get to earlier so this actually shows in better detail that stretch of 123rd which I'll indicate here um we can kind of see that a little bit I'll just make it a little bit wider um this stretch here could kind of be you know that programmable event space recognizing that today much of the retail and Commercial is currently on 123d um so to embrace that and allow then kind of against spill over activities things we already talk about um another idea though is what if we're kind of looking at how do people get into downtown from the west from Quinton in particular today of course it swoops into 123rd and I think one one kind of observation that we've had is it doesn't always provide the clearest or maybe the most inviting um entry experience some could say into downtown today it's not bad but you know could it maybe be better and what if you know thinking boldly here what if that actually got realigned to 124th as you can see here had a little bit more of a straight line and kind of a more visual um invitation into downtown have a little bit more maybe kind of Gateway or monumentation welcoming signage on Quinton here and then when you get into 124th what you've done is now you've kind of got this new and additional Main Street into downtown um connecting from Quinton into 124th 123rd is still your more retail heavy event streets this though could now if it's more of the through Street um have higher density residential and more kind of uses and and be kind of a really nice parallel to 123rd Street for example um and that's one thing that we've been again exploring with staff and even during Council there was some real interest in in what this could unlock certainly tradeoffs right there's some private property that would be involved in those would have to be individual discussions with willing owners um but could be an interesting uh play or move so again I'm going to go through the rest of these a little bit quicker than those I think those ones I wanted to emphasize um lastly and we just talked some connectivity but lastly with connectivity these Dash lines looking at what might bike and Trail opportunities be through downtown and I'll explain these colors here in just a second in a few slides but knowing that there's already a bit of a trail on Lynn could that maybe get um brought up and and extend to at least to 123rd and maybe in the future um elsewhere to I know there's a lot of desire to connect to the river might that be a location in Lynn um using 125th here as this East West um kind of connection through the center knowing that 124th will probably have a little bit more vehicle traffic and actually their city right of way today connecting 124th out to Quinton so maybe there's this really nice um kind of connection that way and maybe pulling um I think it's 127th or 128th down here uh and then you can kind of loop through and almost Meander around this more daylighted creek and a little bit more active park space in the bottom have some really nice kind of Greenway style trails that eventually connect up to Quinton and then out to the north and west um where again I know there's future um desired to cross Highway 13 and have connections to the river um in particular and elsewhere um so we are certainly thinking about bike connectivity in that regard and um I'm going to go back to then one more thing with public space and I should have had a slide for this earlier um you'll notice up here at the kind of the Northwest Quadrant of Quinton um we're very aware as we talked to you about of mot's Highway 13 project um they are exploring there's been no commitments on any of the design I'll just note that right up the gates um but they have been exploring of might this this parts of these properties here which actually are highly encumbered by floodway really can't be developed um feasibly could that could that be a storm water um feature for Highway 13 and in which case if they pursue that I would suggest for the city then negotiating with mot saying um might that then be a publicly accessible park space Maybe relocating the dog park um into this area um knowing that it's it's across you know Quinton which is a a higher traffic street but this could be maybe a nice publicly accessible kind of more passive Green Space maybe with the dog park in that area as well too so I wanted to note that too with uh public space before we wound down here for development so with development we kind of are looking at two different things um one is a series of really three key Redevelopment sites and then which I'll talk about more in a second and then uh underneath that those colors which I showcased earlier is what might some kind of land use types really character areas be um and I'm going to start with that actually we've we've talked already a bit of along 123d that continued to be really kind of the retail heart or commercial heart of the corridor and I think in particular what's going on with those um businesses to the east of ly is they're they're strong um I I think and I almost contend too that they play a really unique role with a lot of the ethnic businesses that serve a lot of I think the more diverse population in this area I don't really see much of a reason to you know frankly kind of mess with that and and I think just continue to let them operate well provide them really more customers and through more uh people living in this area but really just embracing the strength of those businesses and allowing then even more retail to happen kind of a along 123rd here as we move South um this purple being much more of that kind of mixed use and allowing for higher density certainly not saying that we're coming out with bulldozers tomorrow or anything that is certainly not the case um but rather allowing for higher density uses um and then as we move to the east you see this kind of more orange color more allowing for and continuing a use of more medium density housing much of what's out there today and then this yellow being what what we're I'm calling n Urban neighborhood this very much basically kind of what's out there now is these smaller more modest Lots with the single family homes that are on there today again I think there's a lot of strength that a lot of value that that type of housing provides and a really good mix and allowing that to continue today um with then of course St John's in the center here um you know preserving acknowledging their their role and their their presumably their continued role in the in the in the downtown so that kind of organizing framework um and and then kind of point us towards really these really these three Redevelopment sites the the Hamilton block the mall block um and then the Savage um School site too I'll start with that one first um these are two lots I want make sure if I have so I'll stay on this one um two Parcels here the school district as we know is actively um looking to sell those we've been in conversations with the school and they'll be looking to this plan in terms of um helping to kind of guide what might be feasible for that area um as drawn here we've made a couple of modifications to this for Angie nothing too substantive but could see a mix of housing maybe some small walkup housing um on especially the park side which could be really nice maybe some higher density on the North side and through the center but then especially where against the single family that Urban neighborhood some against some smaller maybe Town Homes walkup units um smaller apartment Styles um as well too um we've reviewed all three of these actually with a kind of some developer round tables and by and large actually the sentiment was like this is pretty close to what could beer um and and there's actually a fair amount of Confidence from the development community that we talked to about um all three of these sites and a lot of interest in this one in terms of the diversity of housing um somewhere in the ballpark you know depending on how it actually plays out of between probably 250 and 350 units that it could potentially get up to kind of in that range I know it's broad but again it kind of depends a lot on the size of units and all that as we've drawn here it's it's probably in that range um approximately um as we move up to then what I'm calling the mall block that's today where the Masons and and and several other businesses are in the strip mall and um if the Masons happen to listen we'd love to talk to you we we've reached out to them in the past and uh are eager for a response um to hear kind of what their long-term plans are um with the mall space um we would Envision though a series of of probably primarily residential um on that um three four story I think around 60 units or so on that half block was what the development Community felt comfortable with I think that's a pretty fair um um kind of you know estimate as well and and I would even contend especially on this corner here you could put and I'll zoom in we can see that um on this block on this corner here if in fact 124th is realigned this could be a really interesting and exciting kind of Entry kind of key Gateway and entrance Point into downtown maybe there's a small five 58,000 square foot retailer commercial and you know until such a point I think uh expectations might be a little bit more in that kind of three to five range so somewhere around that area on that corner um could even be a little bit of kind of a corner coffee Bakery small restaurant something that effect and then on the Hamilton South block um and this is the last one then I'll open up for questions um uh again much but not all but much of that kind of South half of that block is zone between the city and the county Eda um and we've talked with the county Eda and they're certainly um intending to develop towards residential and it'll be a continued conversation with them of um exactly kind of what the target audience Market is for their for kind of that residential and um had some good conversations of you know potential to open up to you know private development Partnerships potentially and market rate potentially in addition to other Eda plans so um there are no plans I want to be very clear for that block specifically and um but I think you know something to the effect of what's shown here 75 to 100 or so units um could be could be feasible um which is the space allowed with all three of these and this would be my last Point um certainly parking will be a consideration I think For Better or Worse um parking will drive the amount of um development potential because of just the size of the Lots um again we talked about that earlier but also a high water table and a lot of bedrock in this area so underground parking being extremely difficult if not cost prohibitive as is probably know too from the Hamilton building and the senior housing next to it that parking is actually at ground level it's not below ground um so I think that that will it has already been a conversation of um parking requir and tradeoffs with that too and kind of those the balance in act that comes within that too so I don't have answers on that but it's certainly something we're aware of and will'll be highlighting the plan so um with that rather than Flash the uh question screen um and and have you look at that I'm just going to go back to the first graphic here um and uh I will stand for any and all questions Regina since I have this up if someone either does raise a hand or shouts out if if you can kind of be the MC if if you don't mind that'd be help too but appreciate everybody's time and looking forward to some good discussion looking for hands feel free to unmute yourself and jump in as well oh I do see a hand um Katherine hi hi everyone uh yeah k ma with Macintosh with the economic development commission um so just a question about the the idea of that 123rd Street being kind of the an event Street um sorry my printer is going off if you hear some background noise but um are has that been discussed with I know you know there's a lot a lot of the senior apartments and if there's any considerations about noise on that I'm just I know my mom lives in one of those senior apartments and faces the street but um is that is that something that is part of the focus group that that you've looked at yeah great question we've had some Outreach um in that area and I believe some of the senior uh residents did come down and talk with us a little bit too I I know and even actually um and I forget her relationship to the area but someone did reach out to Regina and Angie kind of asking actually about know destinations and things for to do for seniors more broadly um and I would say twofold de very good question um certainly any noise would be you know run through the city standard ordinances and noise um kind of processes too of you know at certain times can can kind of loud events still happen so of course permits would still be needed for any events and noise um I think that's a great Point too of you know ensuring that any any louder noises maybe be focused more on this Plaza area rather than right in front of I'm sure where sounds like your family may live um the other half of this too or the other portion is you know if 123rd transitions into a space I'm going to go back a slide that is more comfortable to walk is more shaded has more spaces to sit is that more comfortable then for seniors to spend more time out there and maybe even walk to current or future destinations that they may want to go to or just for a stroll during the day right with either some friends um as well and that's one thing that we've heard from again some of the people who have reached out to City staff of um some concerns from some members of the of of kind of seniors who either live or visit the area too of not always feeling comfortable to kind of walk around or move around the downtown I think by rethinking 123rd Street of course being mindful of noise Etc um being a safer more comfortable PE uh place for people of all ages and abilities thank you yeah yeah great question looks like Al Erikson has a question with the economic development commission uh hi thanks Regina um appreciate the uh the information I guess I'm still a little disappointed that we haven't Incorporated anything regarding the river into the plan yet um I know 13 is kind of a barrier but I notice on one of the connectivity charts there's some uh uh Vision that perhaps there'll be a connection going across there up towards the river um I li you know if we're looking at the vision in terms of honoring the past I think the the the river is quite historically important in town uh going all the way back to Mr Savage's Farm even though he was in the Bloomington Side probably what is not the Bloomington Side but uh you know the farm being there and the um launching of boats for for the war effort and things like that um also it's just probably interesting watching barge traffic up and down I I kind of think more of a observation deck or something like the Rapids Dam or something like that and I'd mentioned that to Reg before um but is there was there any talk about that or anything thought about that or is that like on a second phase type of thing along with that pink or purple dotted line that goes across the road there yeah again a great question there was certainly a lot of conversation continues to be about um w i I'd say even honoring kind of the past but even the past planning efforts and desires from both Burnsville and Savage to try to make connections to the river and um we've had a lot of conversations with City staff um mindat actually and then um the county transport folks as well too and I think consensus being right now that there is a there is strong desires to one day make connections up there there is a lot of uh property ownership and technical difficulties of where and how to get up there um especially with the uncertainty of what the exact design of Highway 13 will be um some of their Concepts I'm not saying that this any of these will be for sure progressed or or the concept but some have shown even different or no kind of access or Crossings at Lynn for example so if that's the case does that start to then influence hey maybe this what's currently know pink here maybe that becomes in invasible and maybe that should focus on attention further to the West for example so I think recognizing there's a lot of Technical and and ownership barriers today along with this kind of uh fairly large uncertainty about the future of what excuse me what Highway 13 exactly will be certainly there's a desire to keep Lyn open again I want to make that very clear there's no plan today um to close Lynn um but with some of those just unknowns this will allude to the desire to continue to connect um but at least for right now not feeling confident that we can make a kind of a sound recommendation exactly where but not off the board is what you're saying yeah correct not off the board by any means nope nope good thanks for clarifying that yeah yeah um Andrew R for our Planning Commission has a question Andrew if you're talking you're muted yeah Andrew we heard just a blip of you a second ago but again if you're talking we can't quite hear you did you say you you did hear me because I'm unmuted and when I asked if anyone could hear me I no one responded or yeah we can hear you now now we just lost yeah Andrew if you want to put your question or any comments in the chat too that might be a way that we can make sure we get them M msas do you want to go next yes good afternoon can you hear me yes oh good yeah hey thank you good afternoon everyone I appreciate the the presentation uh pretty cool ideas I just have a very general question I guess three questions I would like to know if if there's much information in terms of uh let's just say the cost that the city will incur to do those developments in terms of upgrading streets and public U sites as well as the procurement of private property so that's question one the second where would those funds come and the third one would be what is the expectation in terms of bringing back all the revenue the taxes the Vitality that we want uh to to recoup those costs if that makes sense yeah yeah those are fantastic questions I love those um and that you know I noted earlier for the engagement that we're starting to dipart to in that final component and really with the plan to as we wrap up we're actually having those exact um analyses and conversations right now actually all three of those so from the cost side um we'll be looking at um a general cost estimate for the public improvements in particular so what might a kind of a general range be for the public Plaza for example for the streets as we're uh conceptualizing them I'll go to this graphic which has it better um in particular you know 123rd and maybe some of these other ones too what might a typical per linear foot cost be for roads designed in such a manner at least to give you know a kind of a general sense of that cost where those funds will come from then and I should say the the cost for for property procurement we're not getting into that or at least not intending to primarily because um a key current point to this plan is to intend that much of this being Market driven especially from a development perspective being kind of private and Market driven with possibly the exception again of that southern um Hamilton block site just because so much of that is already publicly owned between the city and county Eda um so that's the great questions of those in terms of where the funding absolutely we're actually developing right now um kind of a funding plan in terms of what are General sources grants um uh you know the state level in particular State and Regional level what might funding sources be what and then really importantly too what kind of powers does the city have from their Eda um in particular in terms of um Levy um which I know that the city doesn't currently use today but that is in fact a tool on the table that could be considered um Tiff um and actually reine I think you may have saw we're gonna meet with Stacy briefly on Monday to talk about that in more detail um you know what what role could Tiff play in a district like this does that maybe make sense um what are really the tool the full arsenal of tools that the city has at at its disposal and then where might it make sense to start to consider those knowing that each one will be on a case-by Case basis and then in terms of tax revenue just actually earlier this week um we had um 's public finances is a partner of ours there a sub for to Bolton mink on this project they just provided actually the initial draft of what anticipated tax revenue could be on the city portion in particular from um this kind of amount of threshold of private development so then we can start to square up a little bit of what kind of annual tax revenue would the city bring in as compar to these costs and then kind of any of that Gap in particular what funding sources might be out there granted or otherwise to help pay for them so um commissioner what you're getting to is a a fantastic like in our implementation section which we're um working on exactly right now yeah thanks for the info I appreciate it yeah yeah um commissioner Lindy uh with our Economic Development commission has a question yes hi thank you for putting this together you've had lots of conversations behind the scenes and I the slides are really helpful so thank you um on 123rd with that being the primary retail space um how many businesses do you think will fit in that three block area oh as compared to how many are there today yes uh great great question uh certainly depends on on uh the type and scale of of development um it's kind of an obvious question right I think today there's actually quite a few obviously there's quite a few we all know that on the south side of um 123rd here at uh between Princeton or just the east of Princeton kind of on the more West Side um we we get into kind of now a conversation of um how basically kind of what types of developments and and then kind of how much the the use of land and kind of the efficiency of land is is one way to describe of um many smaller properties which can can be harder to deliver versus a couple larger ones um so we haven't done and I don't I don't think I could probably provide you a reliable answer in terms of how many might be realistic I mean we could drop buildings all day long but in terms of what the market might deliver there's just a lot of uncertainty whereas uh on the south side of um 123rd over here you have half dozen at least if if not more whereas then um more in the center of the block there's two and so there's you know basically kind of the takeaway from that is there are many different ways in which to arrange these blocks and again with much of this being uh Market driven and private um driven it it's going to depend a lot on what those specific users will want to be in this area Okay I I hope I'm not punting on your question too much but it's no it's kind of a two-part it's kind of a two-part question because I think retail and beautiful outdoor spaces go hand inand to keep people in in that area which is I think is great um so it I am interested in in how many retail what kind of retail what kind of commercial districts you're thinking but also for the outdoor Park area I mean having outdoor music is wonderful and having an area to have a peaceful walk with a friend can be it's hard to find but it being so close to Highway 13 I mean one semi TR whose exhaust is going into acceleration can ruin a conversation or maybe even not let you hear music so I know you mentioned it's very complex that relationship of the Redevelopment and 13 what kind of sound mitigation are you planning yeah great question um again two two- part a little bit um some of mind what makes this a little bit difficult is mind do has not yet selected a a kind of a concept and so a little bit will be driven by what is the roadway design adjacent to especially this portion of the plaza here because some of their Concepts that they've um progressed into kind of their final evaluation actually show um an elevated um an elevated wall along this Northern stretch actually where the highway will ramp up um to accommodate a crossing over Quinton rather now if there's a let's just say kind of there's that wall space there um kind of a retaining wall of sorts that might actually naturally mitigate some of the Noise by having it kind of up over potentially but I would say then it opens up an interesting conversation of in partnership with mot how might that wall be designed to be aesthetically pleasing for example and kind of the trade-offs of that if mind progresses a concept where Highway 13 is at grade then we start to get into more kind of the traditional options of can they provide sound barriers is there really heavy screening um with vegetation or artistic elements that will that be sufficient so it's a little bit of kind of a a anticipate our plan will talk about kind of a universe of options knowing that as certain is is is delivered or gotten with Highway 13 that can inform kind of which of those um choices make the most sense I feel like I punted maybe twice on your on your questions I didn't mean to do that but uh as as as anybody knows with uh you know planning for the future there's so much uncertainty and there's a lot of it depends um Holly has a question next I apologize I'm not sure which commissioner if you're a member of the public and then after Holly I have a um chat message from Andrew and then Kathy so go ahead Holly first oh hi um I am with Shana's dance studio and um we have been here we're going on our 16th year and just saw this um first time you know I've been onor actually that we were aware of this so I don't know if um we haven't had any communication on I don't know if we reach out to the Masons on it um you know we were looking and hopefully being here for many many years to come so this is um is this something that is a certainty that our our space won't be available here or is it is it does it depend on if the Masons decide if they want to um keep this building if you could just give some insight on that yeah happy to Holly and really glad that you're here and been reaching out to them and I marking as they own the entirety of the building too so nothing you see here that we're looking at is certain or even has a specific timeline there's no one even lined up to develop any of what you're looking at here what this plan really is is looking at the entirety of downtown and what might a vision be um for a future of the downtown that meets some of the goals outlined by the city and the community so again if I can do nothing else it's to kind of hopefully um assuage any fears of there's no plan that the building is going to go away necessarily in in any certain timeline what rather this provides um some Vision around of if in the future at some point the Masons or whomever might own the building in the future again if that ever changes hands and they decide to redevelop what might a Redevelopment Vision be that meets the goals of the city and expressed by the community so um if you get a chance to to connect with the Masons or kind of whoever your point of contact is with the building please get them in touch with for Gina and engine or members of the city we've we've been reaching to to try to get in touch with them for a while too and we very much like to know their long-term plans but I'll just reiterate very clearly there there's no specific plans to redevelop change or get rid of them all anytime soon until such a point is that owner wants to which is maybe never um but if they ever want to um a vision such as what we're looking like might be a future of that okay thank you yeah yeah please reach out to me um with any additional questions after the meeting more than happy to chat through um more and learn more about your business as well okay I do appreciate that thanks so much thank yeah thank you thanks for being here Holly yep um so Andrew had typed in two questions uh first question I don't know if you can see it Mike um but what is the plan to address traffic coming off of 13 onto Lynn turning onto 123rd from the West if 123rd is reduced uh oh I see I see um yes great question Andrew um this is kind of tapped or tied or related to kind of the pting I did with Carrie a little bit as some of that is going to depend on what mot decides to do with that intersection and that access in the future um the city Regina tell me this is correct to a general position of the city is to Pro still provide access from Lyn or approximatly its location today and again some of the um alignments that mot um is is exploring still shows different alignments um and access from Lynn some of which might P it uh in a slightly different location maybe to the east or to the north and so um it's a little hard to suggest specific uh recommendations in this plan not knowing what P's going to eventually and ultimately choose to do with that intersection um I think generally speaking I'm going to go to the roadway um and Mike um yeah please Mike Andrew just clarified he meant to say from the East and not West coming from the East so oh oh oh oh oh from just to clarify Andrew if you just the the Linn intersection from 123rd to Lynn okay okay um I think kind of the same answer though still not knowing exactly kind of where and how Lynn will be aligned and and designed in the future it's a little tricky to to make a definitive recommendation knowing not knowing quite how that will look I think generally speaking though when kind of these roads are maybe tightened up generally folks go a little bit slow and a little bit safer and actually more efficient movement of traffic um as well too so from just a roadway design on 23rd only I think that that can be some of the outcomes um but certainly we're aware of that there's a lot of backups especially during rush hour morning and afternoon at this intersection and kind of the plan making some suggestions to menot knowing that there will be a point in the future where they make a more ultimate design decision and then um he had one more question let me just get to the chat um so or the comment um it sounds like all the Redevelopment plans are for housing and no mixed use commercial retail our fancy roads and outdoor seaing really the only aspects of this plan designed to draw additional people downtown yeah good question um I would I would say that's actually a decent pretty move by itself of kind of public space improvements I think the the plaz and streets by themselves um you know are are are pretty could be a decent investment um one of the things that this gets back to if you remember Andrew that um exhibit with all those kind of red um properties is there's so much there's so many rather kind of smaller lots that exist here today that it's going to take a pretty good amount of effort and coordinated kind of attention to assemble these that Redevelopment is not necessarily going to be a quick um effort and so trying to recognize in this plan where are some of the more near-term um opportunities potentially these three um properties we know the South Hamilton and and especially the school really being the more near the near term and then looking to this graphic then as well of um as Regina and Andy Angie excuse me are are currently updating the zoning code of actually making some land use recommendations too of as compared to what might be allowed today might those be reconfigured or broadened um so that as private development does occur over whatever timeline it happens um different types of uses would actually in fact be allowed in the future showing Redevelopment concepts for three but again there kind of this purple mixed use and high density residentials now that's actually kind of a new uh move that would now be allowed in it's kind of this core part of the downtown if that makes sense oh Regina you're on mute see sorry about that um Kathy I'm not sure if you're a member of one of our commissions um or member of the public but um you have the floor Park and wck commission oh excellent thank you thanks for being here and um and that actually just want to mention the the number of um interconnected options here where there's absolutely no way of having certainty is really remarkable in in a a large scope uh but the one thing I kept hearing understanding is we need to know what is mind going to do what time frame are you anticipating mot giving you an answer one year two years five years yeah Regina do you do you know that one it's kind of I don't have the exact time frame I could get back to on that Kathy um and others as well um I'd have to look back at my at my notes um they're having you know conversations right now um technical meetings um and I believe you know more will come out um within the next year um they'll be doing some public Outreach um November December time frame and then more design um will come after that um but I'm not sure the exact years um but I can follow up certainly no I'm just curious because depending on some of the options been discussed uh what's what is showing here will change definitely and saying that respect so that's just seems like such a big uh something to even start talking about and the other thing was the time frame which I believe earlier said there is no time frame on any of these items these are just more if this would happen this is something we might consider doing because when I saw this I initially when I went through the documents earlier saw a huge opportunity as as well as essentially an obligation in terms of Park and uh necessary funding and additional amenities for the amount of additional uh residents that this might attract and things of that sort so you know we have kind of like a you know CIP process so again just want to somehow figure out how some of these very exciting ideas can enter into uh that planning process I mean it can it can also be things here and there I mean frankly a dog park uh that attracts people in a placemaking manner that's just crazy uh so Parts can still go ahead even if other parts don't I'm done thank you no no that's that's a fantastic Point too of you know plans like this are generally seen as kind of policy documents and vision documents to really empower the city to make decisions it's you know how we kind of open the meeting today too what is a series of both public and private actions to align those towards some Vision which is you know visually Illustrated here um CIP I think being a great one too and I know our conversations with Greg there's there's some of this that Greg's like this is great but I'm going to need more resources or this is great we can start to do some of these things today um Greg being the the park superintendent or the director um for just the level Something Andrew I'm actually still thinking about your question too about some of the development piece I think what also makes this tough if I can just loop back to that briefly is I unless I I don't I think this is true there's not like any like there's no vacant sites in terms of really space that's undeveloped for the most part other than some of the South Hamilton which we talked about there also isn't like a a a significant or long-term vacant properties either I think that's also a complicating factor in terms of necessarily recommending larger or or more kind of specific Redevelopment sites is any Redevelopment in the future would NE necessarily have to come from a turning over or transitioning of either um someone's home someone's multiple homes um or active businesses today so I think with that kind of um uh awareness and caution um is maybe why this some of the development shown here is maybe not as aggressive or hard or wholesale or broader as maybe some of the past plans or other downtown plans that people may have seen so um you've got me still think on that one Andrew that's kind of another one too that that plays into this um I just wanted to note I um mot could be actively working on Highway 13 between Quinton and nicholet in Burnsville uh 2027 2028 and then um Scott looks like you have a question yes thank you Scott Londa parks recreation and Natural Resources Commission uh got a couple questions here one do you have an overlay that ID ID ifies uh public Parcels in this area be it city or county two um obviously with coming from the parks and re Natural Resources Commission angle uh you mentioned daylighting the credit River area um with that is there potentially tying in uh I know it's still the credit river that uh time in to the South to to U Hidden Valley and then potentially going to the east to Rudy Kramer in uh Burnsville if there's opportunities for those so that we're tying into uh additional areas so that this this region for development isn't so isolated but there's other ways to access it from a park and wreck uh and uh outdoor activity aspect yeah um I'm gonna answer that last one first great questions um so and I know I I forget the name of the exact Park excuse me further to the East and Burnsville but I know that you all have wanted to make that connection for quite some time and are reliant on Burnsville to help make that that final connection of course that's you know I forget one of the Commissioners mentioned there's this plethora of you know unknowns out there which I I agree um we we've been steeped in that for a while I think that being one too is how to continue to work with Burnsville to try to make those Eastern Connections in par if I'm following the correct location um but I think then even South utilizing Lynn um and to the West um you know I think I don't know the kind of thinking of where that might be I mean I I I know the the rail um and the the longterm kind of there's many kind of desires or plans for that too I think there's certainly still a world where that that could potentially happen um I that feels like a much longer play kind of a railto trail transition um so with that in mind we we're suggesting that Quinton um and then excuse me 12 123rd to the West kind of be envisioned that East West Connection um if that starts to get to your your your question about how do you have more active connectivity I'll call it or even recreational activity kind of Beyond just downtown um it's actually surprising how very few connections and really almost no connections into downtown there are today from a bike Network perspective I think there's there's Lynn and and some of these that go through the subdivision and that's about it um which actually made this exercise that we're looking at here a little tricky because where might it come in in the future knowing that there's a lot of contingency with um surrounding jurisdictions and then where might It Go in the future knowing again the conversation we had about the river um the public Parcels we do actually have um it's not shown here on the screen but we did actually look at um all of the publicly owned Parcels um city county or otherwise there's a lot actually um a really really high number um much of that is Park and then Wetland and so obviously the park along Quinton here um Warren Butler Park um Hollywood Park and then the wetlands to the South but even within downtown there's quite a few publicly owned properties as well too some of which um we're showing here as Redevelopment site so yes that is something that we looked at I do have a followup if that's okay yeah so so with regards to if if if we're looking at the NB Savage area and then uh Warren Butler Hollywood um and along that crit River there it seems like some of these projects I know that when we get further to the north and you get closer to retail it's what is mindock gonna do with Quinton Lynn all the way down to Chowan but it seems like some of these concepts for example daylighting Credit River can be a start and then if uh you know the MW Savage Redevelopment type area can occur re in dependent of what is happening on 13 so so my question um it seems to me there's an opportunity to with trails along the credit river through Warren Butler through Hollywood continuing to the east um to tie into Burnsville and I know that going west uh along 123rd is a little more complicated but um it seems like there there is some more potential there to get folks off of Street and um so I just um wanted maybe that's a way to you can get people there and then um from there the development along just south of 13 123rd depending on yeah I I would certainly agree as there there are many in spite of how many kind of unknowns there are particularly kind of around the the periphery um into the north I think there's a lot of things still that could even happen more in the near term such as those that you mentioned too of um i' even call it kind of a more activated River kind of way a Riverway or or Greenway bike facilities through Warren Butler and along the river um I would say too we actually didn't really Touch Too Much on but um one thing that this plan suggests is actually extending 126 out to Quinton to create a second connection and an entrance on the west side too um I omitted that one not purposefully so even that could happen more near ter um again money aside and resources aside um so yeah certainly agree and and the implementation plan will be structured in a way that talks about kind of phasing or timelines for for all the the many recommendations in the plan um I'm not sure if you still had a question or if it was raised from before or something additional or does anybody else have any questions we're a little over 7 o'clock um certainly if you have any additional questions after this um oh looks like Shaye has a question um certainly if people have more questions after um myself or Angie are more than happy um to answer them you can certainly work with your respective um staff Liaisons and get those questions over to us as well um but Shaylee why don't you go ahead and ask um your question or comment thank you Regina it's not a question but a comment um Savage is already considered more of a residential town and on top of it all that uh the orange sites that are shown on this plan what I heard is going to be again more of Residential Properties and here we have a b uh somebody representing a business concerned about what will happen in the future I know this is all planned um given that Savage is already heavy on residential side I was hoping to see more of commercial or retail for redevelopment mhm Yeah question it's not a question it's a comment and I I it's I was little B taken back to see it's again more more of residential of whatever is left yeah I'll make a very brief response to that too because I want to be kind of just to Define one thing too so anything in the red or purple this plan is suggesting could allow for resident or for retail or commercial or entertainment so to speak um which not all that I don't believe is allowed today Regina correct me if I'm wrong please on that but I think that's actually from just a zoning perspective suggesting to actually open up even more more locations than um today for um nonresidential uses the other thing too is um you know what we hear and have seen across the market especially the last couple years is actually a pull back from office and even retail of course and that was um I was kind of hoping for a different response from our development kind of round taes but actually they very much affirm that too of um you know it's almost kind of a build it prove it have the the population or the of the people living there have a certain threshold to be able to attract um retail and Commercial and so our our reading kind of what we've been hearing um and the feedback from from the people on the ground so to speak is it is a very residential area and even more would be needed to attract retail here when um you're also you know competing in a sense with Burnsville and Shaka and Bloomington and all those as well too so it's certainly the plan uh desires for and and suggest opening up for more locations knowing that at least for the near-term residential is still probably the strongest market and and likely is a necessary ingredient to be able to get more future retail in the future yeah but uh Savage doesn't have much land left and I'm hoping they're looking for the long term not just the shortterm year that's that's my yep yep certainly appreciate that umina if I can just real briefly um I think I have a we steps well nobody wants to see this um I'll pull this down so where we go next um our this plan will be will be done uh end of the calendar year and some of the funding that is supporting this plan um related to that too so over these next several weeks um our team working with Regina Angie to wrap up the plan and actually have a draft um early November or mid November um we'll be we'll be actually going before Council to kind of provide them and review more of a draft full plan with Council in particular and then are anticipating working with uh you know Regina Angie and Council for uh final Council uh or final considerations and approvals uh the end of the year ideally um to have this that's kind of where we're going next with that Regina I'll let you have any closing remarks great again um thank you all for um joining here this evening uh taking the time out of your busy schedules um I'm really excited that we had um each one of our commissions represented um and you can all hear from each other um and we could learn from all of you um and and hopefully make this plan um the best that we can um I know there's been a couple of comments um in the chat since um we've uh kind of concluded the Q&A a portion um we'll take those comments and and make sure that um you know they're summarized within our our final uh plan document as well um so with that I'm going to say good night and again thank you thank you everybody thank you all have a good night e