Commissioner Sandhu Commissioner Redding Commissioner Cheras >> Here. >> Commissioner Vanderveen >> Here. >> Commissioner Robbins >> Here. >> Great. Second item is approval of the agenda. Is there anything that needs to be added or removed from the agenda as it is stated today? >> No. >> All right. Can I get a motion to approve? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Thank you. Uh we'll need a all approve say I. >> I. >> I. >> All opposed say nay. All right. That passes. Uh third item is recognition of the board by any interested citizens for anything that's not on the agenda today. >> [snorts] >> Seeing and hearing none. I will move to the consent agenda which is the approval of the minutes for the last meeting of July 9th. Any changes that need to be made to the minutes from July 9th? >> Hopefully we spelled everyone's name right. >> [laughter] >> Mr. Chair, I'll move approval of the Board of Adjustment uh minutes for July 9th, 2026. >> Thank you, Mr. Robbins. We need a second. >> I got a second. >> Okay. All right. We got a second. Uh all those I I will abstain as I was not at the meeting on July 9th. Uh but all those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> All opposed say nay. All right. Uh fifth item, other business. Uh any other business? No, nothing? Great. Then [clears throat] I will entertain a motion to adjourn to our next meeting which would be September 3rd, I believe. >> So moved. >> Thank you, Mr. Robbins. >> Second. >> Thank you, Mr. Vanderveen. All in favor say aye. Aye. >> I. All opposed say nay. We are adjourned. >> All right. Thank you. And now I'll call to order this meeting of the Charlevoix Planning Commission. Uh we'll start with item one on the agenda, roll call. >> Commissioner Forsythe. >> Here. >> Commissioner Wheeler. >> Here. >> Commissioner Sandhu. Commissioner Redding. Commissioner Cheres. >> Here. >> Commissioner Vanderveen. >> Here. >> Commissioner Robbins. >> Here. >> Thank you. Now we're going to on to item two, approval of the agenda. Are there any changes or additions to the agenda? >> Nope. >> Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve it. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Robbins, is there a second? >> Second. >> Commissioner Cheres with the second. Any discussion on approving the agenda? All in favor? >> Aye. >> Any opposed? Great. Moving on to item three, recognition by the Planning Commission of interested citizens. Is there anybody here that would like to speak on something that's not on the agenda? All right. Move on to item four, consent agenda. The only item in the consent agenda is the approval of meeting minutes from July 9th. Are there any changes or additions to the minutes? No. Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Vanderveen, is there a second? Commissioner Robbins with the second. Commissioner Wheeler will abstain from the vote. Any discussion on those meeting minutes? Hearing none, all in favor? >> Aye. >> Aye. Any opposed? All right, that passes unanimously. We'll go on to item five. The only thing on general business today is a public hearing with a request to amend city code section 151.002 and 151.007K related to the definition of cannabis cultivator, indoor cannabis cultivation, and manufacturing uses in the highway business B1 zoning district. Is there a uh >> Mr. Chair. >> Yeah. First of all, I'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Robbins, is there a second? >> Second. >> Commissioner Vanderveen with the second. Any discussion on opening the public hearing? Hearing none, all in favor? Any Thank you, Mr. Kurski. Is there a presentation from staff? So again, this is an ordinance amendment to this public hearing to amend title XV chapter 151 section 151.002 definitions and 151.007K table of uses related to cannabis cultivator definition and cannabis cultivation and manufacturing in the B1 zoning district. So the city council, some background, the city council approved this ordinance in December 17th, 2024. It amended these city code sections by adding cannabis and lower potency hemp use classifications. Ordinance was written by the city attorney's office, so the use is either permitted in the letter P or not permitted, which is blank but in the zoning district in the use table with the subscript references for additional conditions of approval. Any endorsement received from the state of Minnesota's office of cannabis management, the OCM, for cannabis microbusiness, mesobusiness, or medical cannabis combination business must all per permitted in the zoning district to be allowed. Rory Cummings, applicant, and Tom Madden, business partner, have pre-approval from the OCM for cannabis microbusiness license with retail endorsement. They're requesting three ordinance amendments related to allow indoor cultivation and manufacturing in the lease space at 491 Marshall Road in the B1 zoning district. Uh they request to modify the definition for cannabis cultivator to outline what is allowed versus what the license license holder can do. The current definition written by the city attorney was a business with a cannabis cultivator license or cultivation endorsement from the state of Minnesota office of Cannabis Management. Proposed definition same as the city of Chaska's cannabis cultivation means a cannabis business license to grow cannabis plants within the approved amount of space from seed or immature plant to mature plant, harvest the cannabis flower from mature plant, packaging and labeling mature plants and seedlings and cannabis flower for sale to other cannabis businesses, transport cannabis flower to a cannabis manufacturer located in the same premises, and perform other actions approved by the OCM. Changing the definition as proposed would result in different format for this definition than all the other cannabis definitions and raises concerns if the state changes their language in the rules and statutes in the future, which we may not align with them. They have uh let's see here. Come on. There we go. Request to change the use table to allow indoor cannabis cultivation up to 5,000 sq ft and cannabis manufacturing in the high wind highway business B1 zoning district. City code allows cannabis cultivation and manufacturing in light industry, the I1 and heavy industry I2 zoning districts along with limited retail with a maximum of 15% of operational area or 2,000 sq ft, whichever is less. The intent of the B1 zoning district is to offer goods and services directly to the ultimate consumer. Horticulture not involving retail sales and manufacturing are currently not permitted in the B1 district. The 2040 comprehensive plan guides the B1 zone properties as mixed-use commercial corridor or mixed-use commercial center, amending the city code to allow industrial uses in these commercial classifications would be in conflict with the comprehensive plan. B1 also includes residences and a majority of the properties abut residential zoning districts. There are concerns related to compatibility with adjacent commercial businesses, neighborhood residential uses, odor, noise, and security. So, here's our zoning map. B1 is sort of the this color right here. So, it would be a significant amount of area. Here's the downtown. B1 covers this entire area. And then also out in Southbridge, that's a large B1 district also along Marshall Road here. Um this is all B1. So, the proposed ordinance under a subscript 61A is to request to modify the subscript A to remove language of each endorsement received or when combined must follow the current language states cannabis microbusinesses, cannabis meso-businesses, and medical cannabis combination businesses may be zoned based on each endorsement received or when combined must follow the designations for each license in the use table. This was written by the city's attorney's office to ensure that both a license type examples of microbusiness, meso-business, medical cannabis combination business any endorsement received by OCM are permitted in a specific zoning district um to be allowed. Removing the language as proposed would allow any license type to operate with any combination of endorsements in any district where that license type is allowed regardless of whether the individual endorsements are otherwise allowed. So, here's the current B1. So, basically we allow low-potency hemp um cannabis retail and cannabis microbusiness in the B1 zone right now. You can see over here I1 and I2 have a significant number uh of a more allowed uses. So, staff recommendation is denial of the proposed ordinance amendments with the following findings. Cannabis cultivation manufacturing uses are not in the spirit or intent of the B1 um zoning district. B1 zoning district includes both commercial and residential. Proximity of cannabis cultivation and manufacturing uses to non-cannabis related commercial businesses abutting residential zoning districts as well as existing residential homes raises concerns including but not limited to odor, noise, and security. The 2040 comprehensive plan guides the B1 zone properties as mixed-use commercial corridor or mixed-use commercial center, which does not allow any type of industrial use. Amending the city code to allow industrial uses would be in conflict with the comprehensive plan. Modifying the definition of cannabis cultivator to list what is allowed instead of referring to the state required license for a specific definition would result in this definition being dramatically different format than all the other cannabis definitions and may result in confusion in the future, particularly if the language in the rules and statutes are amended or no longer aligned with the city definitions. Eliminating the requirement all cannabis license types and endorsements to follow the designations in the use table would result in industrial uses operating in any district where a license type is permitted, which was not the intent of the original ordinance um 02024-11. >> Thank you for that. Uh before we have anybody up to speak, do we have any uh questions for city staff? >> Miss Chair, >> um um Mike um I'm I'm trying to get my hands around this endorsement, this um um definition of the endorsements and lack of endorsements. Can you walk me through that again? >> So, basically when you get your approvals from the Office of Cannabis Management, you get certain endorsements. So, you can get a retail endorsement, you can get a you know, basically a license to grow. So, when the city attorney working with the state and other the League of Minnesota Cities, um they came up with kind of a policy that the endorsements would follow the zoning districts. That's how we came up with the table. Um I think the biggest issue here is allowing any It doesn't matter whether it's cannabis or otherwise, any kind of manufacturing or production of anything in the B1 district opens us up I mean, that's a comprehensive plan change, so that's going to be a Met Council discussion, full Council discussion beyond this ordinance, and I'm not sure that would go well because it You know, in the B1 district, we allow residential two ways. Either you can be a standalone multifamily, so an apartment building. You can do high-density townhomes, or you can do mixed use, and those are allowed by right, so it's going to change the whole character basically of the B1 district. >> Just to be clear, if I understood if these amendments go through, then any use uh would be uh allowable in some of the B1 districts. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's the concern. >> it didn't It wouldn't have to be cannabis. >> Yeah. I mean, I Chair and members, I think the issue is that it opens kind of the Pandora's Box. It's very difficult to limit, you know, you For instance, if you want to do automotive repair, I mean, that's not a by right, that's by conditional use um cuz that's already set up in our code. Um I think the proposed changes would make it really difficult to do some uses. I mean, we would end up with, for instance, a cannabis store or manufacturing growing in an apartment building by right. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yeah, thanks. >> I have questions for >> Okay. Any other questions for staff? >> The notes said Chaska does it differently. So, is Chaska not in alignment with state language? >> No. >> No, they're not in alignment. >> Correct. >> Correct. Okay, thank you. >> Yeah, I mean we we have believe it or not we have a cannabis attorney at the city attorney's office and they're out of alignment. They're one of the few cities that did not kind of follow the lead. >> That's what I was going to ask. So, Chaska is sounds like more of the exception than the rule and and the rule is more likely what we're doing where it says just match what the state does. >> right right now today you can go sell cannabis in the B1 district. We if you remember the city council did not there's no parameters, distance requirements. They said, "Look, you know, we don't have distance requirements for liquor stores. So, if you want to open a cannabis retailer next to a school, have at it." And so it's >> But you can't for example grow the grapes to make the wine in a B1 district. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> In the same way that you couldn't grow the leaves to make the cannabis in >> Yeah, so so for instance a a good example would be a nursery. So, they're allowed in B1 district, but they're not growing the plants there. They come from a farm. So, when you go to uh Bachman's or you know, some kind of nursery plant, you're buying a a plant that you're going to go home and plant in the ground. I mean, it's not a seed which you take home and grow. I mean, they don't have any greenhouses or things like that. So, any of the things you see Home Depot or Lowe's, they're not growing any of the plants there. They're all brought in from outside the district. >> Thank you. >> Got it. >> Anything else from city from for city staff I should say? >> All right, this is the public hearing. Is there anybody here that like to speak on this? And if you do come up, uh please sign your name uh in there. Uh both of you if you could. Then we'll let you hear what you have to say. >> [clears throat] >> And just while they're signing in, so the process here is whatever you all decide then goes on to the city council. If they decide to move this forward, we'd have to ask the city attorney to come up with a ordinance which we'd have to publish. >> Thank you for that. >> How are you all doing tonight? >> Very good. How about yourselves? >> Good. Glad to If you wouldn't mind introducing yourselves and then >> Yes, my name is Rory. It's very nice to meet you all. >> My name's Tom Madden. >> Thanks. >> Excuse me, Rory. Rory what? >> Rory Cummings. >> Thank you. >> Firstly, I'd like to thank you all for being here today and listening to our proposal. Uh I hear your concerns and I believe that some of those concerns are very valid, such as smell, odor. Um one of the big concerns that our landlord also had was the odor with cultivating cannabis. And one of the endorsements actually that we had skipped to make sure that odor was under control is the onsite consumption. Uh, the onsite consumption would create a very strong odor in the area. Um, very very similar to a cannabis grow operation. Generally, cannabis will not smell until about the last month right before harvest. And that cannabis flower is then packaged and sold. And that flower will be ripe and so it will have a smell uh from consumer to sale. The um, cultivation of cannabis as well is uh we propose to do them through grow tents, which would have inline filters and carbon filters. And on top of that, the OCM does require us to have a negative pressure HVAC system, which would also include a large uh carbon filter system to help remove any smell. Um, and with that system, that would be implemented on top of these tents, which would essentially double the filtration that's being used currently. >> So, to give you an idea, 70% >> just moving the mic over yourself while you're speaking, thank you. >> give you an idea, 70% of the plant's life is odorless. Um, so it's only in the last 30% does it start to get odor. And as the plant matures, the odor gets stronger. So, it comes out initially very faint. And then as you get closer to maturity, that's when the odor um is is is is is stronger. But, um you know, as much as we're all concerned about the odor, our landlord was was on another level. So, before we even suggested um doing our small grow, we went through the landlord and we've got estimates. And so, the OCM has their level of filtration systems, so we're going above and beyond that. So, we're going to have a massive filtration system. Even though the plants themselves will be in in these tents, and they're called grow tents. You can think of them like um they're almost like in capsules, like like like space in capsules. So, they have this filtration system within the tent themselves that basically releases all the odor out. So, it's going to have multiple layers on top of what the state requires um to reduce any odor. And uh so, we we think the plan we have for the last 30% of the plant's life, and it's really the last 5% is when the odor gets strong, we'll we'll be removing all of it cuz the the grow will be so small. We're only going to use about 1,000 sq ft for this small grow. Um and we're simply trying to do it because it's impossible to find product, so we try to find creative ways we can actually open our store after waiting 3 years to open our our store um in another location. So, we worked this out with the landlord and um and but we we we we want to work as we have with Minnetonka for 13 years, um and Chanhassen for 5 years, you know, we want to work with the city and hopefully come up with a solution that's good for everybody, you know, on this on this issue. Um do you want to elaborate? >> On the on the on the brewery there. >> Yeah, and so, one other thing that we've noted is that breweries and uh do uh zone in the B1 zone, which those do allow the manufacturing, the sale, and the consumption of alcohol, which would be similar to a cannabis dispensary um with their operations of manufacturing, growing, and the sale in the B1 zone. >> And and on top of that, breweries uh we There is a brewery on map next to our Minnetonka store, and the amount of noise they make versus a plant growing, which is basically there is no noise, is is is exponentially higher for the brewery. So, I know another another issue was the noise, but um you know, anyone who does any gardening knows that when you grow a plant, there is there there is no noise. Um in fact, the HVAC system that we're putting in will be the loudest noise we'll have in the whole process. When that kicks in, cuz we have the same one in Minnetonka, when that kicks in, that that will be the loudest noise in the whole process. Cuz, you know, not only are they encapsulated, but they're just they're just growing like any plant. So, there's no noise issue that we're aware of anyone who anyone who does this. >> So, Do you have more to say? Otherwise, we can certainly ask. >> just going to talk about the security, too. >> Oh, go ahead. >> Yeah, yeah. That was the third issue that we thought it was. So, go ahead and >> Yeah. And so, along with the security issue, um that OCM requires us to have very strict security regardless of if it's a retail, cultivation, manufacturing, um and so, all of our um all of our processes would be done up to OCM standards. And along so, we would also include having a higher-tiered security system than what is the base requirement from OCM. And so, this includes 24-hour monitoring, um the ability to save recordings for up to um, 3 to 6 months, which allows for if there is anything that occurs on site, we can instantly pull up the footage and view it or pass it on to whoever we may need to. Um, and this would also allow us to hold a uh, stricter uh, what's the word I'm looking for? A Mhm. It would allow us to essentially um, streamline the process of security between if we were doing retail sales or cultivation. >> I I wanted >> Go ahead, yeah. >> to make one more comment, too, just cuz I know uh, Mr. Robinson had a question about the endorsement process. And when we filled our our licenses out, it's you literally just just tick a box of what endorsements you want. And because um, the price of license is the same whether you tick all the all four boxes or one box, you know, most people tick the boxes. The only box we didn't test tick was the one to use the product in the store cuz no matter what road we went down, we did not want people um, in our dispensaries just basically uh, using the product in the store and creating a lot of smell. So, just give you a 2-minute background, we started um, we we have a vape store in Minneapolis in Minnetonka that we started 13 years ago to help people stop smoking. My My ex-wife was a smoker and when I bought her electronic cigarette, we went all over in Anoka. We went to about a dozen stores and all six had had uh, guys in hoodies and couches blowing big clouds and it was very intimidating. So, we tried to make a vape store for women and we wanted to make sure that that none of those odors were available at that time. Um, and to extrapolate to the current world, we wanted to have the same kind of atmosphere. We want uh, well-lit stores, but the last thing we wanted anywhere in our 13-year journey down this road is to have odors. One I I I you know, I I I don't think I think it's offensive for the people around us. Two, it's I don't want to be that kind of neighbor to my to the other people around me in in my where we lease our space in Minnetonka, Chanhassen, or Shakopee. So, the odor issue has been something that we've been on top of since the beginning. We started this process 3 years ago when when the state first looked at past 342, the cannabis bill. >> Thank you. And before we get into the questions, can you just talk a little bit about why you chose this location at 491 Marshall rather than a location that's in I1 or I2 already? >> It is so hard. >> [laughter] >> It is It is so hard to find a space between the city zoning. So, we looked at So, so just give you an example, I'm going to take I'll answer your question. I want to take a step back, too. But we looked at properties ev- in like all over the Twin Cities. >> 200 >> Yeah, 200 areas. We had a spreadsheet of 200 areas in the Twin Cities to look for potential cannabis spots. So, when you get through the zoning and the city requirements and the state requirements. So, for example, the state does not allow you to have a dispensary 500 ft of a of a school. Or or or a nursery, right? Great. We We don't want to do that, either. But that that's a requirement. And then when you get through all the hurdles, what we've learned is if you're if the landlord is anyone who's national, you will never get a spot because the product itself is only legal in 28 states. They don't want to deal with that. So, now you've eliminated like 80% of all spots in in the Twin Cities area. So, now you have to find a landlord that is local, that is small, that is willing to use the product, that is is open to the product. And um we looked we looked for I mean how long it took us what 18 19 at least at least 18 to 24 months to find the Shakopee location. And they were I know there was at least three other people who bid on were trying to get that spot with the landlord. So um so it's it's it's it's next to it's literally next to impossible to find these spots. Um so >> And again in B1 you could run a micro business or a retailer. So why have you decided to uh you know, in essence kind of push the issue to also grow in this location rather than just run a micro business and a retailer in this location? >> There there is I was just saying there is no supply. >> Mhm. >> So there I mean there is no supply. So we were working with the grower out in Hutchinson and we agreed on a price and that's why we've had the spot for a year. That's when we we switched to this in May. So we agreed to a price the whole time. We helped him we helped him with all his regulations, get his business up. And then in April when we met to uh to sign off on the purchase, he was going to charge us four times the going rate. And the the numbers I ran, if we were to pay that price, we would be out of business in anywhere from 90 to 120 days because the price you would have to charge for the product versus what they can get on you really you're really comparing it to what they get at the street level because um anyone in the state can grow eight plants in their house. You just need it to cover it up. So um any any apartment, any any uh house, any multi-dwelling that has anyone over the age of 21 so you could have can have eight plants, four maturing. So there's there's a lot of underground supply. Uh and then plus there's also a major tax issue we have with this product which you don't have with other products because of the federal versus state issue. So, we were forced after that meeting in April to to get creative and that's when we approached my landlord. And I think we we uh we we went for this amendment I think in in late May or June because it took us a good 5 to 6 weeks at at minimum going back with our landlord our meetings trying to find a compromise to allow him to allow him to let us grow. So, our our intent was not to ever grow. Our intent is is to use our licenses before they expire which is we need to be up and running by by January of 27 or our license expired and we've lost hundreds of thousands of dollars just because we can't get product. Okay, so we were kind of forced behind the eight ball to find a creative way to get product. And with this approach if we're able and all we want to do is grow enough product to service the store in Minnetonka. That's all we want to do so we can get the store and get the business up and running. >> Oh, just to be sure you're not doing a retail location here. This is just to grow for your store in Minnetonka. >> So, we assume that prices will be down in 24 months. We just can't survive that long. So, once once the price comes it's got to go below $2,000 for us to break even. We think it's going to go to the national average of $1,000 to $1,200. Once it's there we can make money and then once but once it goes to break even point we're going to convert Shakopee to it to a a dispensary which is what we wanted to be to begin with. We just want to be able to survive this time. Right now the price of cannabis in the state of Minnesota's between $4,000 and $4,500 a pound. You you can't you can't survive at that price. >> And that's that's based on it's just a supply issue. That's why the price is high. >> So, the state issued 14 Correct me if I'm wrong. They They issued 49 cultivation license, but they've only approved seven. So, and then once you grow it, you have to get it tested. And the testing sites, there's only four. And they've gone from a small amount of product to They want over a pound of the grow. So, there's at least a month backlog in just getting the product tested after you've grown it. So, the the govern- The backlogs at the state level are are monstrous for us. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Uh Mr. Chair, Commissioner Robinson has >> [clears throat] >> You know, I remember when the state passed this legislation. Um and for us it was a new thing for Colorado, for other people. Um I'm sort of though caught by the fact that you want to change in doing this. You're asking us to change some of the state guidelines. You won't be exactly like the state legislation. Um And do you see any I mean, I think we see maybe some difficulties with that down the line. Because we won't be meshing with with that and uh things may change. How do you respond to that? The idea that your guidelines are different than the state's. >> Do you want to do it? >> Well, a a few things. One, um We're a little confused as what you mean by different, but on the other side, we we would be very open to working with the city and changing our amendment to whatever would would work with the city. Um The the the uh Are you referring to the the definition amendment that we put in? So, what we did and we put that in our amendment, we we drew a 20-mile radius out of out of Shakopee. I think there was 19 cities. And then of those 19, six I believe used the same definition term called cannabis cultivation. And of those six, they all had very similar definitions. They were based on the same thing. We only chose Chaska because it bordered it bordered Shakopee, but I believe Golden Valley had the same. >> Valley, yeah. >> And there were four others that had basically the same wording. >> Mhm. >> But the definition that the state uses, I mean we can read that definition. We have that, but it but it's it doesn't it it it's not either one of the it's the uh >> It is different. Yeah, you have it you have it over here, right? >> Well, so are you saying you had the the state had a definition for canna- cannabis cultivator and you had to change that. >> Yeah, so you can read it. So, this is from this is from section um 2005 section 342.01 of the bill subsection 4027. Uh go ahead. Cultivation. >> Cultivation. And cultivation means any activity involving the planting, growing, harvesting, dying drying, curing, grading, or trimming of cannabis plants, cannabis flowers, hemp plants, or hemp plant parts. >> And again, right now that is permissible in I1 and I2 in Shakopee. And there you're just asking to extend that to B1. >> Yeah, we're asking is so the microbusiness license when OCM set it up was initiated much like a microbrewery license. That's why it's called a microbusiness license. And they wanted you to be able to do a very small grow if you had that license. So, we're we're asking the the OCM allows you to have a 5,000 square foot grow in um in a micro for a microbusiness. Our spot is only 1,700 square feet because we're going to be using the tents. It's going to be much smaller. And we basically want to do 50 plants and anyone in the in the state can do eight in their house. We just want to do 50 because we thought 50 50 plants we thought would just get our store open in Minnetonka. And that's and that's really all the only reason why we were were down this road. >> And again, I I can't wrap my head around yet the idea that you're going to be using this location at 491 Marshall, right? To just grow plants for commerce in another city. See what I'm saying? >> the microbusiness license allows you to sell to another microbusiness license. >> Sure. >> And it has to be within 100 miles. So we're we're So we're going to be growing in Shakopee and then we're going to be using it in our Minnetonka store. >> not have any retail presence in Shakopee until you said prices come down. >> Until prices come down. We we we initially when we signed the lease a year ago we did the whole build-out. We did it ourselves with the intent of having the dispensary open, you know, months ago. But then when the supply issue came out in April, then we were really backed up and we had to get creative as to how we could get our get We just want one store open, honestly, so so we can meet our expenses. We've had We're paying rent for a year in in a space that we're not doing anything in. And then, you know, our in general our vaping business has gone down as dispensaries have opened, fewer and fewer people are vaping. So our sales at our vape store they're down 22%. So we're getting we're getting hit on both sides. So we're just trying to find a way to honestly just keep the business open until we think things will be in a greener a better place, you know, in probably 24 months is what is what we estimate. >> Yeah. Can you clarify what exact license you're on deck for and the endorsement? Because what I'm hearing is microbusiness, but then I'm also hearing the cultivator, but >> Yeah, so that is one thing that's kind of confusing with the licenses. So, each license structure does have different endorsements that can be attached to that license. >> So, I've got the state's >> Mhm. >> chart in front of me. And And so, I'm I'm looking at that. And I can see that just Let's start with one question. The license you're hoping to get and on deck for is a micro business. >> Yes. >> Correct. Not a cultivator license. >> Correct. >> What endorsement do you are you currently in line for and or are you hoping to get additional endorsements because of what you want to do? >> So, currently we hold all the endorsements for a micro license besides the onsite consumption. >> Okay. Mr. Kursky, >> Yeah. >> can you point to the spot in the city's ordinance about this that limits the cultivating part of what they're trying to do? >> Cultivation is only allowed right now in I-1 and I-2. >> Is that in >> In the table, if you look at the table. >> Yeah, and the table's in the packet. So, >> So So, I'm looking at the >> be sure. So, these these classifications, right? >> Yeah. >> Cultivator, delivery service, manufacturer in that table. Those are definitions made by the city of Shakopee or made by the state? >> So, I'm I mean, I think just looking here at the state statute in the quick interpretation here. >> Right. >> It says um Minnesota cannabis micro business can generally cultivate cannabis plants up to a statutory plant limits for a micro business license. Manufacture cannabis products, operate a retail dispensary, deliver cannabis products, and conduct other vertically integrated activities allowed under their license. >> So, where I have incongruity here is that B1 does allow the micro business and by state definition the micro business allows five up to 5,000 square feet of growing. >> Yeah, I mean, I think the bottom line here is you heard it. So, they're going to grow in a retail space and supply in a store in another city, which is allowed, but you all need to make a recommendation. Is that something you want to allow in the B1 zone based on the standards we have today? So, that's going to open the Pandora's Box, so to speak, of >> Right. >> Cuz the city can be more restrictive than the state, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> And okay. >> Yeah, I mean, I think we had a long discussion at council and workshops about where did they want people to grow it and so there are conditions. If you go into I1 or I2, it can't be, I think, up against residential. If you are, it has to have all sorts of filtration and others. There's subscript under all of that and council had a long discussion about how you separate uses and I think B1 in general in the city is for um what do you call it? Retail sales. So, they brought up um brewery, so we defined them. So, a small brewery is a conditional use in B1, B2, and B3 and small tap rooms are also CUP, but a brew pub where you have food or whatever is allowed by right. And a brewery over 20,000 barrels a year is only allowed in I1 and I2. >> To to >> Because I'm have some familiarity with this. None of the breweries that are in town are in a B1, that's my understanding. They're either in a downtown or a >> B3 or in or industrial. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> So, there there is a difference here >> Sure. >> for that application. >> Any other questions for the applicant? >> Thanks for your time. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Do you want to ask if anyone else wants to >> Yeah, I was just waiting for >> I don't believe but yeah. >> Stop. >> Yeah. >> Since this is a public hearing, is there anybody else here that would like to speak? All right. Thank you. Hearing none, I certainly entertain a motion to close the public hearing. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Robinson, is there a second? >> Commissioner Wyler with the second. >> Any discussion on closing the public hearing? >> All in favor. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? >> All right. >> So public hearing's closed. It's certainly up to us to discuss it and then at the end of it there'll be some kind of a motion. >> Yeah, Madam Chair Mr. Chair, excuse me. Um You know, I'm I'm stuck here because I'm impressed with all the things that these people have said they will do in terms of conducting the business and their intent and resolve to make sure that that there's not a smell or that the it doesn't impact. But there's a couple other issues here that >> [cough] [clears throat] >> have to do mostly with the structure of the state legislation and what we do or allow in B1s as opposed to industrial. And so while you know, I'm of the mind to try to to promote this, I'm stuck with all of the the difficulties with it. I don't know if uh they can You said you'd be willing to work with with uh city staff, so I think we'd probably have to hear from Michael a little bit, but um there's just a couple of things that don't fit well with our zoning and don't fit well with our regulations. And I think, you know, the the worry is is that this opens some sort of floodgate, that if this happens, we start and then that'd be cannabis now. I mean, it could be something else that there's a floodgate open because of this, so um um Mr. Chair, I have those concerns. I'd like to hear from um my fellow commissioners and maybe at at least Mr. Kiersky wants. >> I To point number one, I think um it creates a ton of incongruity with to your point. I I think it's pretty straightforward that if we start creating our own definitions, that we're going to run into trouble. To point three, um >> Which one was point three? >> I have to remind myself. I wrote down notes, but not what exactly what it was. >> [laughter] >> Give me a moment. >> comprehensive plan B1 zone guides? >> It's the to the delete the language each endorsement received or combined must follow. >> Okay. >> Um I I think that is a disaster waiting to happen in terms of and it's not about you, it's about just the general business climate. If somebody wants to open something ridiculous, and we don't have that kind of language in these ordinances, then um it becomes chaos, right? Again, not about you and what you're trying to do, but just bigger picture. Um where I'm stuck is number two. Um >> I'm still trying to find where it says you can't cultivate in B1. Exactly. Just because the P is not there? Is that >> Yeah, I mean I If you remember, I don't think you were on the Planning Commission, but we revised the code to get rid of a lot of language. If it's blank, it's not allowed. >> Right. Um So, anything >> if it's not on the permitted thing, it's not allowed. So, if you want to sell used cars, for instance, in B1, not allowed. >> Right. >> Um we have some existing that were grandfathered in, but it's not a allowed use. I mean, I think the macro issue is there's a lot of space in B1 and we're going to become the grow center now for you know, be shopping centers are set up to people to shop, whether it's for cannabis or whatever. I mean, I it was not set up for manufacturing and if you think of all the things that could be made, all of a sudden we're turning our B1 district into a a light industrial area. >> especially if what we hear is that we're so supply shrunk and everybody's looking for places to grow. >> Given the number of calls we're getting, I mean, all of a sudden people are going to be >> Well, right. I mean, like if if word gets out that shock allows people to to you know, grow cannabis in anywhere in B1, then all of a sudden, you know, it's going to be a lot of greenhouse greenhouses. >> Yeah, I mean, basically we're whether, you know, beyond the landlord situation, but just as a land use situation, it would allow cannabis cultivation in B1. >> Right. Because we are >> Without any other activity. >> Yeah. Cuz we're not approving just one business, right? We are changing city code. >> Yeah, correct. >> Right. Yeah. >> No, unfortunately, the public hearing's closed, so we're just talking. >> The um um You know, I see the difficulty with all of this. And I expect then, Mr. Kiersky, that given what you've just said, it's very hard >> Mhm. >> to find middle ground here because what they're proposing is to do something in B1. Um >> No, and and Commissioner, if you remember, I mean, no cannabis use basically is allowed in B3, which is the downtown, because there would be no other businesses left downtown if product were available except cannabis stores because we must have gotten 20 or 30 calls for business space downtown that people wanted to convert either existing business space or vacant space to cannabis retailers. I mean, it was incredible. Now, you know, companies out in New York, I mean, unbelievable the number of phone calls we've had to deal with. And they wanted to change that. And I went, "Well, good luck cuz you can go to B1, you know, if you if you have product, evidently, or or you can, if you want to grow, go to the industrial areas, but we're not going to have it all over the city. I mean, Council said there's no limit to the licenses, but there is a limit to the areas we're going to allow it." >> Thank you. Um >> Anything else? Madam Chair? >> Nope. >> Nope. >> Uh yeah, I mean, I I keep going back to, right, this is not just about are we allowing one business to open or not open, right? Or it's it's about setting a precedent. It's about changing city code. It's about changing, I think, the nature of what the B1 zone is, right? The idea that it's meant for retail. It's meant for, you know, people going and buying something. Um we haven't talked yet, and I think it also bears mentioning that at this specific location on the north side is an apartment building, on the east side is some homes, and on the south side the hotel. Right? I mean, these are very close to places where people either live or visit the city. And, you know, by the way they were talking, 30% of the time there's going to be odor. Right? I mean, that's it's I think it's a recipe for complaints, and I think that's part of the reason why B1 is sort of shielded, right? From this because of the fact that it can be close to residences, hotels, those kinds of things. >> Yeah. Mr. Chair, let me just say one other thing. I, you know, I appreciate the fact that you guys have been looking for a long time, and that it's not easy. Um I I really hope you find a space. I know it's it's difficult to do, but um >> So >> I just think there there's going to be difficulties with this one, so. >> So So, could you grow in Minnetonka? >> Okay. >> [laughter] >> I get it. I guess I guess not. >> What zone I was going to actually ask, do you know the zoning for the the other two sites, what kind of zoning they're in? >> Well, Jan Askin is a national landlord, and he's not going to allow it. >> Well, no, I'm asking what the city zoning is for the two other locations. >> Oh. >> You mean Minnetonka and Chanhassen? >> Yeah. >> We We do know that our our Minnetonka store is zoned for cannabis uses. >> Do you know if it's B1? Is it I1? Is it >> Not the top of my head. We've been pre-approved on this since we got here. >> Yeah. Okay. But mostly for retail, right? Not for production. >> Well, there's a micro brewery right next to us that does this. >> Yes. Different, but right. Yeah. >> next to us. >> Okay. Sounds good. >> We can't have um We We can't have a cultivation license with a micro business license by law. We're not allowed to do that. >> Right. Right. >> To me, the zoning department would have to break state law. >> Sounds good. Any other So, wait. Give me a second. So, what did you say again? >> I can read you the statute. >> No, but what license do you have right now? >> We have a micro business. And in order to grow at the micro business, we need to also own a cultivation license under >> So, you have a cultivation license? >> By We legally cannot. Like, it's against state law to have a cultivation and a micro business together. >> Two licenses. Which is why you want Marshall Road to just cultivate. >> Well, no. We We want it just because our our micro business license allows us. So, the micro business >> Okay. Okay. >> we are allowed to do a very small cultivation. But, to me, the zoning and shop you need to have a cultivation and a micro >> That's right. >> cultivation license. Not endorsement. You need a cultivation license, not the endorsement. And the micro business license which has the endorsement. But, if we have both, we would be breaking state law because you can't have a micro business license and a cultivation license at the same time. >> The Okay. Thank you. But, well, by state law, you can cultivate it, but by city code, you cannot. If I am Mr. Gurski, am I interpreting that correctly? >> You can answer this, but I think what you're saying, if I'm following the bouncing ball here, that I With your current license, you can grow, but not sell in a small location. That supply another business. >> So, the micro license, it is kind of confusing, but essentially >> Can you go to the microphone, please? >> Yes. Um So, with the micro license, that has different portions of endorsements. So, like one endorsement is the retail sale, then the next would be cultivation, um the next would be onsite consumption, and then manufacturing. And so, those are all enveloped. >> endorsements do you have? >> We have all of them besides the onsite consumption. >> Does Yeah. >> Yeah, okay. >> Is the So, in this table it says can grow. >> Mhm. >> But, is that can grow only permissible when you have the cultivation endorsement? >> Correct. >> Got it. Okay. Thank you. That solves a lot for me right now. Okay. Thank you for that. >> Thank you. >> Any other discussion among the five of us? >> No. >> All right. Um by the end of the night, we want to have something about the proposed ordinance amendments to change the definition of cannabis cultivator and allow cultivation indoors and manufacturing in the B1 zoning district. Do we have a motion referring to that? >> Um Mr. Chair, I I I guess what I'll do is I'll recommend denial to the city council the proposed ordinance amendments uh to change the definition of cannabis cultivator and allow indoor cannabis cultivation and manufacturing in the highway business B1 zoning district. >> Thank you, Commissioner Robbins. Is there a second on that? >> I'll second. >> Commissioner Weiler has the second. Uh any discussion on that motion? Hearing none, we'll go to a roll call. And again, just before we do it, An I means you recommend denial and an A means you do not recommend denial. I just it's one of those weird, negative kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Commissioner Forsythe. >> I. >> Commissioner Weiler. >> I. >> Commissioner Cherith. >> I. >> Commissioner Vanderveen. >> I. >> Commissioner Robbins. >> I. >> Thank you. That passes unanimously. And we'll move on to item six, other business. Is there any other business? >> Motion. >> All right. Thank you. Then we'll move on to item seven and entertain a motion to adjourn. >> So moved. >> We got Commissioner Vanderveen and then Commissioner Robbins with the second. Any discussion on adjournment? Hearing none, all in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? We're adjourned at 7:54 until the September meeting.