Welcome everyone. I'll call to order the Shakopee Board of Adjustment and Appeals for May 7th. I'm Noreen Redding and I'll be the chairperson for tonight's meeting and we will start with a roll call. >> Commissioner Forsyth. >> Here. >> Commissioner Weiler. >> Here. >> Commissioner Sandhu. >> Here. >> Commissioner Redding. >> Here. >> Commissioner Cherro. Commissioner Vanderveen. >> Here. >> Commissioner Robbins. >> All right. The next item is approval of the agenda. So are there any corrections, any additions or deletions from the agenda? >> Nope. >> All right. Our third item >> Ma'am, do we have to make a motion? >> Yes, that's good. >> [laughter] >> Right. >> I'll second. >> Okay. So we have a a Commissioner Forsyth has a made a motion to approve the agenda and Commissioner Weiler has seconded. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed, same sign. All right. Uh number three is recognition of the Board of Adjustment and Appeals of interested citizens and this is for an item not on the agenda. So is there anyone out there who would like to speak to an item that's not on the agenda? Okay. All right. Our next item is the consent agenda and on the consent consent agenda we have the minutes from March 2026 and April 2026. So do I have a motion to approve the March meetings? >> So moved. >> Okay. >> Second. >> All right. So we have had a motion and second to approve the March meetings. All in favor say I. Opposed, same sign. All right. Motion carried. >> since I wasn't there. >> Okay. With one abstention. Uh and the second one is the April 2026 meeting. Do I have a motion to approve? >> So moved. Is that all together though? >> Pardon me? >> Both of those are together in the consent. >> You can do them separately, it's fine. >> So moved. >> Did someone make a motion to approve? >> I did. >> You did? Okay. Can someone second that? >> I'll second, yeah. >> All right. So motion has been made and approved to approve the minutes from the April 20, 2026. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed, same sign. >> I'll abstain. >> Okay. Motion carries. Our fifth item is general business. And on general business, we have two public hearings. The first one is for a conditional use permit for a commercial recreation minor use for the installation of up to four outdoor pickleball courts and an outdoor patio. So do I have a motion to open the public hearing? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. So all in favor, I. >> I. >> Opposed, same sign. All right. >> So again, commissioners, this is a public hearing conditional use permit to allow a commercial recreation minor use at 1100 Shakopee Town Square. Justin Hammerback of Drop Drop Shot Pickleball LLC is the applicant request is requesting approval of a CUP to allow commercial recreation minor use for the installation up to four outdoor pickleball courts, an outdoor patio in the B1 Highway Business Zoning District. Dropshot is located at the north end of the Shakopee Town Square. They're looking to expand with new outdoor courts to the north side of their existing business along with an outdoor deck on the east side. Here is the location for the CUP. So, each court is 64 by 30. Total fenced area is 120 by 64 plus the patio, which fits in a loading dock. Entrance gate would be in the southwest corner, 8-ft fence all around, and some additional pine trees to be planted. Here's kind of a layout of what it would look like. And then this is a view looking south. That would be the new fence that would be installed. So, 8-ft high fence around the entire perimeter with no gaps, landscaping on the west and east side, bollards on the corners, north side of the of the fence facing along the road to the back of the building. Courts will slope away from the building drain to the north. So, this is kind of what it would look like. Um fence will be black coated chain link. Example is to the right. Fence will be fully enclosed with a coated gate and door to enter from the inside. Fence will be 8-ft tall all around with no gaps. There will be a privacy wind block around the entire perimeter. Opacity at 90% and an example is shown on the right. Examples are from our current indoor courts, but the same building materials will be used for the outdoor courts. So, um these are the sidewalk and trail improvements that are required. So, this is an existing city trail that would be extended here and then extending the sidewalk along the front of the building. Particularly emphasis by city staff is the need for extensive screening on the site along the east side of the property and sidewalk and trail connection improvements. Additionally, any lights on the outside of the facility should be directed away from the residential properties to the east. City staff have found that the proposal would meet the required criteria provided the conditions noted in the draft resolution are met, which include conditions found in city code section 151.007 K14 and other design and site-related requirements. Recommend approval uh subject to discussion and feedback a resolution approving a conditional use permit to allow up to four outdoor pickleball courts on the north side of DropShot Pickleball tenant space located at 1100 Shakopee Town Square. >> Okay, thank you. Um does anybody any of the commissioners have any questions? Yes. >> Yeah, just a couple questions about the um plan design. Uh Now, yeah, where is where exactly is that patio going to be? Is it kind of in the lower right there? >> You cut out. >> Where's the patio going to be in there? >> Um the applicant's here and he can talk about where they're going to put the patio. >> But it's right in kind of that area. Okay. >> Yep. I think it's right here in the loading dock area. >> And then I didn't I didn't notice on the original plan. Are there plans for lights at the beginning? >> He can address that. I believe so. They plan on having outdoor night time playing. >> Okay. Cuz I didn't see anything on the plans for lights right now. Okay. >> Yep. >> Yeah, we can talk about that. >> Staff requirement is I think our minimum is 6-ft tall evergreens along the back here. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? All right. Well, this is a public hearing, so if there's anyone in the audience who would like to >> here? >> Yeah, applicant or anyone who would like to speak? >> first and then other people can speak. >> Yeah, pretty certain. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> If you'll come up to the microphone and sign your name and tell us who you are. >> [clears throat] >> All right, I'm Justin Harrerback from Drop Shot Pickleball. Um so, I think the the slideshow pretty much showed exactly what we're looking to do. A couple of the questions you had you had asked. So, that bottom right-hand corner, that is the old loading dock. This used to be a grocery store. >> [clears throat] >> Before we took it over, it'd been vacant for 25 years. Um and so, one of the things that we've been open now for 3 years. Um with an indoor pickleball facility, you have ebbs and flows of seasonality with winter being very busy, summer not being quite as busy. So, looking for outdoor courts to kind of even out our seasonality. And so, those are the four courts that we're looking to add and then um in that what used to be the loading dock, on the inside of that loading dock is now our party room. So, it allow us to open those doors and then have the people from the party room walk out onto the loading dock and be kind of connected to those courts. Um and then as far as lights, yeah, I probably wasn't initially put in here. Um we are looking for them to be open till 10:00. That's what our initial thought is. And so, our thought would be lights on top of the building facing inward, like down in towards the court. So, they would not be facing out. They would have blocks on each side so that light would not go anywhere outside of where the the footprint of the courts are. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. >> And then just one other question. So, explain access again. Obviously, access from inside, right? If you're inside the pickleball facility, you can walk out to the courts. There is also a gate from the parking lot that you can go straight into the courts? >> Yeah, so basically that that north end of the building, there's two fire escapes or fire doors currently. Um one of them is kind of with where our walkway is between our courts that are inside, and that would allow for people to walk and just go right out that door and be in the fenced-in area. But also kind of that bottom left green area that where that little corner is cut out of the building, there'll be a a coded gate there. So, technically, when people make reservations, um the system that we utilize is called Court Reserve. It gives them a a code, and they can walk into that gate and just type in the code and then get access into the courts versus coming all the way through the building, but we can do it kind of either way. So, there'll be access from inside the building and then access from outside as well. And another thing that's just isn't on there, but they're also when the fire marshal came through, we need to have two gates um just for you know, safety purposes. So, there'll be another gate in the northeast corner that's just for people leaving the courts in an emergency, but not access into the courts. >> And then are your is your gate the are the codes sort of timed and unique, or is it just one code all the time? And if the wrong person gets the code, anybody can come in? >> Timed and unique. Exactly. >> Exactly. We utilize the system called Court Reserve. And so, yeah, if they weren't timed and unique, we wouldn't have the ability to figure out who's paying, who's not paying, getting into the court. So, everyone has their own unique code, and it's only it's only available for a certain period of time. >> Great. Thanks. >> What are you planning to do in the patio area? Are you doing any changes there or are you just opening the space up to put tables and such and any structural changes or anything there? >> So, currently it's it's a loading dock. So, um right now how that space is is it would look is you picture a loading dock where a good truck would drive down into it. It kind of goes down and then the bed of the truck is equal into the into the building. We would build a deck out so that it's equal from inside out towards that So, instead of it being that kind of a pit that it is right now, it would just be a it would look better. It would just going to be a deck that goes out and the point of it is you got to have just a gathering space for when people are not playing where they can hang out. Um also when we're doing parties in that party room, be able to open it up and kind of bring the inside outside in and then have an area where they can walk out and watch people play while they're playing from their group. >> Got it. Thank you. >> Now, this is a club. So, do people buy a um membership to it or do they pay per time they use it? >> We have both options. So, currently you can buy a membership. You'd probably need to play two to three times a week for membership to make sense. Um if you're an avid player, which we have many of, then that's definitely the way you'd want to go. If you then you have access to play whenever you want, um open plays, rent courts, that type of stuff for free. But, for a player that's just going to play every so often, it's just a pay-to-play. So, we rent by the hour where you can sign up for an open play. So, when you reserve a court, you can reserve it for your group of people and then you you and that group just have that court. Otherwise, we have another option that's called open play. An open play is where you sign up as an individual to play with everybody else. It's one of the nice things about pickleball is it's a definitely a community-driven social event. Um everyone gets to know everybody. You kind of interact, mix and mingle with other players, get to know everybody. So, it's unique in that very few sports where you can just sign show up as an individual and play, and it's one of them. >> Can you talk more about the amenities you want to have on the patio? Is it just going to be tables and chairs? >> Yes. I mean, that that is the goal for right now is just tables and chairs. Um one of the things we are looking at doing down the road is adding food and beverage, like a small kitchen. Um currently, you know, we we don't have that ability, but if we did do that, we'd want, you know, to be able to bring it out onto the deck and serve people and that type of stuff, but um there's no plan to do anything extravagant other than tables, chairs, place for people to hang out. >> [clears throat] >> I'm just forecasting some concerns. Uh I'm going to guess that sound is going to be brought up, right? >> Yep. >> And so, uh plans for music, live music, piped-in music, speakers, that sort of thing. What can you say about that? >> Um we no current plans. If we were to do something like that, we would certainly do it like in during the daytime hours, you know, we're not going to be having any band or music or any additional noise at 6:00 in the morning or >> Right. >> late at night, that type of stuff. I mean, our current plan is to have it shut down at 10:00. Um so, there would be nothing for sure after that, but I mean, right now, if we were to plan on having some type of a you know, a band or a music, it would be like in if a band, it would be guys sitting on a chair playing a guitar. It wouldn't, you know, be anything crazy. >> Right. >> But then it to address noise further, so that is the purpose of of the trees. Get it that trees aren't going to do anything initially, but the wind block also that we that that we showed on there, that's kind of the privacy fence. That's the other purpose of what those do is it also helps keep the noise inside the court area. So, um not that it captures everything, but that certainly helps versus just having a straight-up channeling fence. >> Would something like that be used also for the patio? >> Um yeah, there I mean the fence you'll see how the fence goes all the way around like anything that's that green part is the fence. Um so, we'll have the that privacy fence or that privacy screening go with the a full length of the entire fence. >> I understand. >> Any other questions? >> 8 8 ft high, right? >> 8 ft high, yep. Which was the highest we were allowed to go. So, I mean that's >> Are there any guidelines, and this might be for Michael, excuse [clears throat] me, on the lights? You know, I know lights in parks, personally living right next to one with lights, which doesn't bother me, but it's a sore topic with with a lot of residents. You know, I've heard we think we'll be open till 10:00. I know some pickleball courts are open till midnight and later. Are there some regulations about how late they should >> 10:00 would be the latest Yeah, 10:00 would be the latest they could stay open and the same the lights would have to go off and our ordinance doesn't allow any leakage, so they have to keep the lights basically on those court areas. >> Yeah, okay. >> And I And I also know that the the grocery store that we took over had been vacant for many years, but where the white boxes was part of the old parking lot of that grocery store, and there are light poles all around there for when the lights used to be on for that parking lot. Um they aren't currently. We have no intention to turn them back on, and our lights will be way less intrusive than those lights ever were for sure. >> Yeah, no, I I just know it's been a sore subject for other like parks that have been You know what I mean? For like hockey rinks and stuff, especially in the winter when it gets dark so early, but >> It is absolutely our goal to be great neighbors. That's I think when we moved into that space like I said it'd been empty for 25 years. There was quite a few different people sleeping in the parking lot. The loading dock itself was a little homeless encampment. All the lights of the entire building on our side were all broken out. So I think we've also helped bring and the mall itself was at maybe 80% vacancy. Um since we've moved in all the all the spots on our end of the mall have now been taken over. There's a new golf simulator that's going in. ETS Sports just opened up. There's a lot more coming back to that area. So I think we've also done a lot to kind of just help revive that mall and the area. We one of one of the mandates from when we moved in was that they paint the entire building which hadn't been painted for a long time. They have done that. We needed them to tar our space. They did that. Whole new roof on our end of the building. They did that which is helping bring in other people. So we've also done a lot of things I think to upgrade this facility. >> What would your construction timeline be? When would you hope to start this? >> Our goal would be the end of May. Um it's not a hard and fast timeline. I mean we're willing you know, it's just the goal of outdoor courts is that I mean I shouldn't say the goal. The other thing is they can only be played on in the summer. So none of this would even be in effect from basically November through basically six months of the year this wouldn't even be getting used. Um lights would be off. No noise. But unlike the exact opposite of our indoor courts is you business is going to happen during the summer. So, sooner we can open it, the better for us, but clearly we'll >> The footprint of these courts is it basically the same as the grassy area that's there now? Is it bigger? >> It's 4 ft longer than where the grass currently is. >> And we're satisfied with the road access behind and alongside all of that. >> Chair members, yeah, the engineering looked at this way. I think they have bollards in the corners to make sure people don't take the fence down. >> Yeah. >> And there's a is a water line that was not located in in the spot they said it was and they've agreed um Spooks agreed to allow them to build this subject to if the water line ever breaks, they have a right to come in and take it down. >> And the the road itself isn't even truly a road. It's just access to the back of the mall. It's used like a road. >> Right. >> Um so we'll help with maybe kind of curbing that down. >> right now with the construction going on on the Adams Street. So, yeah, people using that road a lot to go through the 169. >> They're cheating through there. >> Yeah. >> It's private property, but >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I also happen to know that with the schools properties on site there that the access to the back side gets used daily. >> Yeah, for the buses. Yeah. It absolutely is. >> All the staff parking is on the back, too. >> I happen to know because >> Yeah. Yeah. >> for the bus company. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yes. So. >> My concern is that that maintain access is maintained the whole time. >> Yep. And one of the things that I've I was going to get, but um the principal is off on duty right now. Um We we're we with the partnership with them. Their kids play at our facility every Tuesday and Thursday for their recess. Something that they weren't able to do before we moved in. So, it started out as a small group probably two to four kids. It averages 16 to 20 now every single Tuesday and Thursday that are coming through. Um, a few other things that that we have kind of brought and I just brought letters just as a that kind of hand out but we just recently had the Randy Shaver Cancer Foundation pickleball tournament at our facility and so they kindly wrote us a letter of acknowledgement. We just raised over $10,000 to that to the Randy Shaver Cancer Foundation. Something that we've done with them now for 3 years and it's I mean it's been I think a big boom to the area as well. We've been on all the local news stations with them bringing you know, newscast with them bringing in KARE 11 to you know, showcase the facility and do some different things. So, I think that just happen to have a letter from them but that Eric, the principal is going to write one as well that he just is detained. >> Any other questions? All right. Well, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak to this? Please come up sign your name. >> Do you want me to sit now? >> Yep, you can sit down. >> Okay. >> Sit down. >> [laughter] >> Sign your name and tell us who you are. >> My name is Rachel Dubey and I live directly adjacent to the proposed deck. Um, it would look directly into my home. And I am here to speak, um, in opposition of the proposal. I will get my name here. I also speak on behalf of Katie Genoma, who is in attendance this evening. She lives, um, on Van Buren and also has concerns with the noise as well. First of all, ooh, that goes back. Um, I first of all would like to acknowledge and thank all of the board members for your time in listening to members of the community tonight. Um, I live, as I said, directly adjacent. I'm those four dots right there on the screen. That is my backyard. Um, I want to first begin by acknowledging that community recreation is, of course, important and provides a meaningful value to residents of all ages. Uh, recreation supports health, connection, and quality of life. And I have actually been somebody who has enjoyed pickleball. I my main concerns and comments come tonight are not against the recreation itself, but rather focused on whether this specific project is the right fit for this particular location, considering it is immediately proximate its immediate proximity to neighboring homes. Um, I do want to address a couple of things. Uh, first of all, I've lived, I grew up in Bon Vista, and I've owned that home for all but three of the last 10 years, 11 years now. And I have never once seen a homeless person sleeping anywhere on or near the property of the mall. So, I would like to address that. Um, and then the, [clears throat] uh, that's the one main piece I want to say because if there had been, that would have been reported to the non-emergency number by myself or one of my neighbors. Um, so, one of my primary concerns, of course, is the land use compatibility. It directly abuts the residential neighborhoods and backyards, which create very different impacts than if it were next to a parkland or a commercial use area. Uh, the proposed deck and patio would be oriented directly toward my yard, my neighbors' yards, um, though it wouldn't affect too many except for the two or three. It definitely would have an effect. Um, that would raise concerns about privacy and quiet enjoyment of the home. And while tree planting has been proposed um, as a buffer, 6-ft evergreens as it was said tonight, landscaping can take years to mature and offers limited screening in winter months depending on the type of tree. Our current fence that is being put in in a few days hopefully is also 6-ft so it wouldn't offer any additional screening than what we would already currently be providing for ourselves as residents. Of course the lighting spill and glare into adjacent residential yards would also be a concern even though they proposed that they would have buffers and blocks. That of course is still going to add what we call light pollution for the surrounding neighborhoods similarly to if somebody wants to go see, you know, shooting stars. They're not going to do it in a city because there is that light pollution. Noise and hours of operation are another major concern of course. Pickleball produces a sharp repetitive impact noise at 70 decibels on average. That is fundamentally different than typical park sounds and it carries very well. Communities nationwide including here in Minnesota, Maple Grove in 2025 are dealing with complaints and court hearings and lawsuits based on courts that were placed too close to homes. In several cities are in several cases cities have actually reduced hours, removed courts, or banned pickleball entirely after residents reported that the noise could be heard throughout their homes even with the windows closed and even with those privacy fences proposed. There are currently numerous states including Florida, California, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon, Kansas, Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Minnesota who have existing and ongoing court hearings and lawsuits regarding pickleball noise and adjacent directly next to neighborhoods. And the key factors in those lawsuits is mostly the distance and the noise. With 70 decibels on average that equates to a vacuum cleaners, hair dryers, loud restaurants, or traffic noises. And that definitely has unreasonable interference with enjoyment of property and privacy for the homes in the nearby neighborhoods. Given these very real and documented outcomes, I'm asking what noise modeling or sound studies have been completed for this particular site. I'd also like to know whether mitigation strategies such as court orientation orientation acoustic fencing or surface treatments have been fully evaluated to mitigate and minimize that noise for neighboring homes. The proposed operating hours of 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. I'm not sure if I'm accurate on this, but I believe Shakopee's quiet hours are 7:00 a.m. if I'm not mistaken unless that's changed. So, they're proposing an hour before Shakopee's proposed Shakopee's existing quiet hours. And as having somebody who husband who works and has to be up at 5:30 in the morning, 10:00 at night is with 70 decibels repetitively that goes through sound barriers and windows is just unrealistic for us in terms of quality of life. Um the early morning activity would also disrupt sleep and rest for nearby families, especially those like me living immediately adjacent. It could even potentially affect the ability to work from home like me. Um when I work from home, it would affect my ability to do so um and effectively hold meetings and run meetings from my home. Um we also do have a dog and I know there are many dogs in the neighborhood that could be affected by that, which would contribute potentially to the noise for other neighborhoods and potentially increase complaints. Um so, I'd also like to ask what the noise complaint process would look like and what realistic response time residents could expect if issues persist. Um foot traffic and privacy impacts are another quality of life issue. We've already had that trail is right next to my yard. We've already had extensive amounts of foot traffic there that have caused various levels of harassment with our dogs in our yard as well as our other neighbors and trash and litter put into our yard. Um so, with that proposed patio and seating areas directly towards the residential property, um obviously that increased activity, noise, and visibility throughout the day and evening would potentially affect that. Um the orientation may unintentionally encourage patrons to move along the shared property line rather than entering exclusively through the front of the building. These impacts would not be occasional, but continuous for those of us living closest. Um the inclusion of food and beverage service adds also another additional consideration, which I appreciate was mentioned in the questioning earlier. Um on-site service may increase dwell time litter in the community, as well as the lot there, um and uh evening activity in close proximity to the nearby homes. The site is also directly adjacent to Tokata Learning Center, an alternative high school. That proximity definitely raises concerns not only about the alcohol service that may come down the line, but also about overall compatibility, behavior management, and safety. My understanding is that a prior liquor store tenant in the adjacent mall did not have their lease renewed after the school moved in, reflecting a previous sensitivity to alcohol use near an educational facility. If alcohol is proposed here, clarity is needed on how associated noise, behavior, deliveries, and litter would be tightly managed and monitored. Related to to Tokata, I'm also concerned about traffic flow and bus access. Tokata students rely on scheduled bus routes and predictable traffic conditions during arrival and dismissal times. >> [clears throat] >> Increased vehicle traffic, parking turnover, and pedestrian congestion from this facility, especially during overlapping peak hours, could complicate safe bus operations and student access. I'd like to understand whether Tokata or its transportation providers have been consulted and how student routes and loading areas would be protected from additional traffic. Finally, parking and neighborhood safety remain key concerns. Uh increased use of the facility may lead to spillover parking on nearby residential streets, streets that are already struggling to have enough street space and parking. Uh early morning and evening use would occur during low light conditions, raising safety considerations for residents, visitors, and students alike. In closing, I respectfully urge the council here and the board here to weigh not just the intended benefits of this project, but the long-term daily impacts on the residents and school community that surround it. Thoughtful site orientation, realistic operating hours, effective buffering, coordination with school transportation, and enforceable operational controls are not minor details. They are essential to whether this project can responsibly coexist >> [clears throat] >> in an established and existing neighborhood. These impacts will be lived every day by those closest to the site long after tonight's decision is made. Thank you for your time and your consideration, members of the board. >> Okay. Does anyone have any questions? >> Can we confirm the 6:00? I do agree 6:00 feels a little early for outdoor >> Yeah. >> I And maybe there's a compromise there where the outdoor game doesn't start till I don't know if it's 7:00 or 8:00 or something like that, but I >> Yeah, we have no problem starting at 7:00. >> Um that'd be my first question. The second question, this is zoned >> B1. >> And what are the current noise limits considerations for that zone considering this could be all kinds of other things that could produce noise. >> you all remember I think it was the nursing home discussion. I think you were here for that one. That could have been a fast food restaurant. I mean, with >> Right. >> there's pretty limited controls. So, B1's our most diverse zone. I mean I mean, this this facility has an 800 car parking lot because it used to have a movie theater, so I don't think parking's going to be an issue. >> Yeah, I didn't think parking would be an issue. And I think the overlap was with schools totally valid, but I think the bulk of the use of this will be during times when school I mean, it's the summertime when school's out, right? >> Is there a way for the buses to come around it cuz I I mean, I work from home and I know I personally used to work for Palmer, so I was very surprised to see Sean tonight. So, but I mean, the buses do directly come back through there and it is the most safe and easy easily navigable route for the buses to get in and out to safely transport those students. >> As long as buses can make it through there. >> Yeah, as long as that road stays open. >> Yeah, it's good to have a fence. >> And I just didn't know what part of the plans it doesn't show it. Part of the plans show it covering all of the area, and part of the plans show it covering part of it. And with those bollards in there, I just wanted to be sure that those buses could still enter and leave safely. Um, and the students would remain safe as well. I mean, I do see benefits of having some blocks on that because there are folks in the past who have, you know, tied a wheel to the back of their truck and done tubing through the back of the parking lot there. Good way to get road rash, but I mean, I do see certain benefits, but um, with the overall additional traffic um, you know, pedestrian traffic as well with the proposed uh, sidewalk extension as well. I mean, there there have been very real considerations where people have had kickball games in the grassy knoll there, the grassy field area there, and people have come and parked up completely along the residential streets rather than over in the parking lot for whatever reason. So, we have had many instances of that spillover before even a facility of this nature has been proposed and approved and put in. And I like I said, I've grown I've lived in this area and frequented that mall since I was 7 years old, and I don't want to age myself, but I'm in my 40s. >> I didn't ask. >> What the heck? >> [laughter] >> I think you answered this, sorry, but the fence there's going to be a fence around the patio that's also 6-ft high and also 8-ft high and also has the screening material that should provide some noise abatement, right? >> Yes. >> And I do definitely have a concern after having heard him say that there may be potentially live music. I I just There's a There was a specific reason I bought this home twice. Um, essentially First was with my ex-husband and now with my current husband, but we we did enjoy the concept that there wasn't going to be neighbor or noise from behind us. So, if there is a proposed possibility of music, I mean, I was in a band, I have been, still am, but when it's in my backyard, it's it's a different story. >> It looks as though your house is the closest to these pickleball courts. >> Yes, ma'am. >> About how far away are you? Like if I had to measure by a sidewalk, how many sidewalks? >> well, it actually we we currently have had our our property surveyed because we are having our fence replaced currently. Um, so from our property line, there's maybe about 10 ft of grass to the to the edge, um, and maybe another 30 to 40 ft to the where the patio would be um, to the courts, maybe 50 ft. And experts have said according to my research that the the ideal distance for pickleball courts from any kind of residential homes or anything of that nature would be 300 to 500 ft. >> Any other questions? >> So, you were on my property today. >> [laughter] >> Maybe you need to give her a free membership. >> [laughter] >> That all depends on the outcome, to be quite honest. >> [laughter] >> And again, as I said, I do understand the need for recreation in our in our in our city, and I appreciate a lot of the amenities that are provided at other locations, but the main difference is you look at San Ventura or the the you know, for example, the the disc golf course, those are not I mean, the disc golf course doesn't even directly abut a neighborhood. They throw nearby, but there's a whole field of space in between, which mitigates the need for any, you know, stray frisbees. So, I do have major concerns. And we've already had significant complaints filed with the police because of people being noisy behind our home before this has even come in. People just walking by. So, additional foot traffic is obviously going to be a concern. >> And just to be sure, those complaints had nothing to do with the pickleball facility, right? Okay. >> No. With the trail the trail location as I mean, we kind of figured that I didn't think there'd be as much traffic with them the mall not having had as much, but there are folks we've seen walk by with pickleball rackets and already, but they have not been disrespectful those particular ones. >> So, this is this to me >> It's 100 ft from the >> Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. I saw that, too. Thank >> Did we see how far to the deck? >> To the deck on your house? >> No, to the one that's proposed. >> You're not recognize, Kyle. >> That's going to be much closer. Um it's hard to see it on a map, but the the court would be much further distance. >> Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I I mean, I'll tell you I live right next to a park that's got a hockey rink, basketball court, baseball field. Like I used and people often comment, "Geez, how do you like living by all this, right?" And I tell you what, it you just don't it just blends. It's just it's you it's actually I find it joyful, right? You hear people enjoying doing things being outside being active and it's like it just doesn't >> Which is a much different sound. The sound of a basketball hitting the court is a much different decibel level than that of a pickleball. >> Yeah. >> Which I did research. >> To me there's a a weird balance between buying a house with the backyard up against a commercial property that could be lots of different things. >> the big issue. >> Right. And so, I mean, the the only real way to isolate yourself when you buy a house is to put it in the middle of a giant development where there's nothing, right? So, on one hand you've got your backyard, but on the other hand, they have their business. >> Correct. Also, >> that they invested in and all of that, too. >> Also, with the understanding that when I grew up in in the uh neighboring community across of old Highway 69, that was a grocery store without any intentions to have any outdoor anything. So, that was the assumption I bought that home twice under and was that it it was an indoor facility, so the outdoor noise would not be an an issue. >> So, fair. >> Completely understood though, yes. I'm I'm budding a commercial property. I mean, I've I've sat there and listened to the Tokada kids play before hours and during hours of school playing basketball out there blasting rap and hip-hop music with what heavy bass. That That mean, when it goes until midnight, yes, it's a it's a nuisance, but you know, if they're sitting there, I'm happy kids are outside not on their phones. So, >> Yeah, sure. >> former teacher, I I want them off their devices and out in and breathing fresh air. >> Any other questions? All right. Is there anyone else who would like to speak to this issue? >> Thank you again, board members. >> Thank you. >> If you'll come up and sign your name and tell us who you are. >> While he's doing that, Mr. Kursky, there just to make sure, there is this uh uh process inside the city for noise complaints and things like like that, right? If if the noise gets too bad, right? They can come to the city and make a complaint. >> Yeah, I mean, I think the issue, chair and commissioners, is going to be if it's if it's not the pickleball thing hitting, I mean, that's kind of a given. I I think the noise complaint would be other noise. So, parties, music, whatever. >> Or something outside of that that of the right hours or something. Yeah, okay. >> Great. >> Hello. Uh >> uh Michael Golmer. I'm the other direct resident with the two trees there. Uh I have many of the same concerns that were just expressed. I guess I just had a couple questions and my biggest concern is also nice. What is the classification of this area as far as Or first of all, is there a city ordinance that limits sound or sets a sound standard for a commercial location? >> Yes, and this would be Yes, and this would be below it. I mean, it's so it at the point of impact, it's I think I just checked it's between 70 and 80 decibels, but sound decreases, so it's measured from your property line, so it'd be less than that. It doesn't increase as it goes across. >> Uh I'm sorry, it's 70 to 80 decibels you're saying is the >> a pickleball getting hit with a racket is between 70 and 80 decibels. >> I guess I'm asking is there a city ordinance that sets a limit for Yeah, it's sound. >> It's about 90, so it wouldn't get louder as it goes towards your house if you follow me. It's measured from your property line, so we have a sound meter that the police department or staff go out and measure sound from because we get a lot of sound complaints and it's measured from your property line. And cuz we get a lot of complaints, particularly with construction sites, so it as long as it's less than 90 at your property line, that's kind of the measurement. >> Because that differs than state rules on noise then. >> That cities have their own rules. I mean, we're 7 and 9 typically for sound. So, you could have someone building a house next to you um 5 days a week from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. and on the weekends, I believe it's 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. >> So, you're saying a city ordinance of sound limits are supersede a state Is that levels of sound? Okay. I guess that's my Is there a certain classification that this uh project falls in or this property is in? >> This is a B1 zone, which as you heard it's a laundry list of things that could go here. Car wash, fast food restaurant. I mean, it's a It's a commercial zone. I mean, you can do If there's a grocery store here, for instance, they'd be picking up dumpsters at 7:00 a.m. in the morning and dumping them. >> I understand that. I I I guess I'm just going by I couldn't find anything stated in print what the actual decibels that were allowable by >> a whole chart in the city code. >> Okay. But, there was a state ordinance that So, so you're saying the city ordinance would be >> It's a >> of a greater value than the state ordinance? >> Yeah, we We follow the city code here. >> Okay. All right. I guess that's my greatest concern. >> Does anybody have any questions? >> Uh one more. Will there be an assessment of the sound after this project is completed? Pardon me? Will there be an assessment of the sound created after the project is completed? >> That That's >> That's what my concern is, if it's 70 dB 70 to 80 dB at the court. Um it's not going to be louder outside of the court cuz the court's enclosed with a fence. And one of the things we can talk to the applicant about, there are some courts that have sound retention fencing that have additional insulation on them that would potentially stop additional noise. I mean, being ft high, it's pretty high fence. So, right now they're proposing a 90% opaque plastic fence, basically, liner to go around the chain link fence. There is product on the market that in other communities that provide some insulation. >> You might only need that on the one side. >> Yeah. >> This one side that's facing the homes. >> So, it's my understanding that this fencing material focus the sound up rather than out. That's the mitigation part of that. And what he's trying to say is that at the point of impact it's 70 decibels, which is >> 70 to 80. >> 70 to 80. And as it travels, hopefully up in this case, that it would it reduces. That's the physics of sound. Right. So, by the time it reached property line, it would be less than even the 70. I just wanted to make sure it's said out loud that way. >> So, in your assessment, a sound of 70 or 80 decibels would not be heard from inside of residence? >> Not that it wouldn't be heard. That it would be below the >> the city's level. >> So, So, looking up here at at on the fly here, so it's 65 decibels daytime in the city. So, if it's 70 at the point of contact, it's going to be less at the property line. >> If it's 70 at the point of contact, I would agree, but I believe I believe I saw higher numbers than 70, but I I would agree if it's only 70, then it would be less. >> Yeah, I just checked and they said the average pickleball court is between 70 and 80, depending on who's playing and how hard they hit the ball. And you can play the quiet hours in Shakopee are 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. Restricted, so construction activities, domestic power equipment, and refuse hauling is limited 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. on weekdays 9:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. week- weekends and holidays. >> Any questions? Oh, yeah, if you'd like to come back up. >> I just have a question about what you were saying. >> Okay. Yeah, that's fine. >> Are we taking to account the sound of, you know, four people per court, so that's 16 people potentially playing at the same time with their conversations, yelling, and everything being added on in addition to that 70 to 80 decibels? >> But it says here that actually the the loudest that's way the 70 to 80 is louder than talking. >> Wow. >> Not if you try hard enough. Yeah. >> Challenge accepted kind of thing. >> [laughter] >> All right, any other questions? Anybody in the audience would like to speak? Yeah, thank you. Anybody else? Okay. >> I I would like to ask the applicant, would you be open to the idea to put that um new what was called the soundproofing um material on the fence so it decrease the sound? Is that something you will be willing to do? >> Yeah, I mean our goal is to not be a nuisance to anyone, so do everything we can to mitigate those sounds. >> So I understand the applicant is following all the rules which we have by the cities. I understand that, too. There's no way we can just tell him, "Hey, go away because you're following all the rules." That's not a good way to do it, anyways. But what I'm understanding from the neighbor's side, the noise is the biggest issue. So if that can Okay. >> I mean the the and foot traffic that will be increased with the extension of the sidewalk. Absolutely. >> So that that >> We've had people who have thrown bottles of urine in our yard, jab sticks in the fence at our dogs. I mean >> Again, these people have nothing to do with the pickleball, right? >> Correct. >> Okay, I just want to keep making that sure. >> Yep, absolutely. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. But I mean with increased foot traffic, our dog barks at everybody who walks up and down that trail cuz she's territorial. And I do not want I we have reported this to the police before and have not gotten much of a response. So I'm just concerned that the increased foot traffic is going to come with additional litter and and vandalism and harassment on our property. And I they live across the the trail from us. I'm sure they can attest to the extra litter and garbage thrown in their yard as well, as well as the people screwing with stuff. You can go up and speak. >> Yeah, address. >> Yes. >> I will screw you. >> Sign your name and tell us who you are. >> Okay. Um my name is Kyle Dubey. I live with my wife, obviously, next to the four trees. Um My biggest concern is going to be the continued level of noise. Um if everyone's familiar with construction, how loud it is when they're hammering in roofing tiles or shingles, imagine that constantly for the rest of your life. That's what we'll be living with. I It won't be a temporary situation that's an a minor annoyance for a week. It will be the rest of our lives. Can please consider this as it will affect the livelihood and stress levels of all the residents nearby. Thank you. >> Let me ask you this. If if the applicant is willing to put that uh noise reduction material on the fence, would that something you guys be okay with then? >> I thought that was already getting put in. >> The additional? >> additional we're talking about, so. >> It It It could help. I certainly hope it would. My main concern is that it won't be enough. >> I mean, I'm not an expert in that area. I just Google it. It said it reduced the sound to 28 to 30. >> It could reduce it to 28 to 30? >> Correct. >> Okay, so then it'd be like living next to the basketball court >> cutting in the into half. >> Sorry, go ahead. >> It will be cutting into half. >> Okay. >> So, commer- I just looked at found it I found the table on the city code. So, it's 70 decibels um for this zone. >> And it's not about the initial decibel level. I know it will reduce. It is going to be continuous from from the morning to night for the rest of our lives for us and the other neighboring residents. That is a large concern. >> During the good weather, though. >> And And during the summer. During the winter, nobody's going to play there. If it's raining, nobody will play. So, it'll be on and off for about 6 months out of the year. >> [snorts] >> So, I get to enjoy my outside life half of my time. It's I'm sorry. I I came across as crass. >> I think we hear you and no offense intended. Um The challenge, of course, is this is zoned B1, which could be all kinds of things by code, right? If [clears throat] they didn't go in there, something else could have gone in there that quite frankly is going to produce more noise. And be fully compliant with all the codes and regulations in And I sympathize with you. Your lot's right there. But it is what it is, right? The zoning [clears throat] didn't change that, as you know. You've been here forever. That building has been there for a long time and could be all kinds of different things. It could be even worse. >> I understand. I fully understand. I would >> we hear you, but the codes are what the codes are. It's zoned what it is, and it's kind of hard to >> To me, it's an inherent risk to to buy property with a backyard on a property like this, right? Anything could happen. >> No, this is this is true. >> You know what I mean? And same and same with the sidewalk that passes by your property line, too. >> That's That's on on our property. >> Well, it's I assume it's an easement. >> Yeah. >> It's It's city owned. >> Which I'll be tackling next. >> Yeah, but that's That's an easement. The city owns it. >> The main thing I wanted to to bring up was just the duration of of noise in the outside hours. Um 7:00 a.m. That's That's I understand that that falls within the regulations and we can't we can't do anything other than maybe ask if these regulations of of noisy hours be reduced due to the proximity of residential neighborhoods. But that's it. That's all I have to say. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> [snorts] >> All right. Any other questions? I would >> like to ask the applicant back up again. >> Sure. >> Is that a thing? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Could you Could you come back up again? What if um What if we find the trees aren't cutting it? What other options >> Are Are what, sorry? >> The The trees that get planted. What if What if we find out those aren't going to be adequate for their intended purpose of blocking either helping block sound or block light, what next steps could happen on the property there? >> So, Chair and Commissioners, I think it's up to you what you want to require. I mean, our um The problem we have if you put them closer, they we end up having to go and cut them down because they grow into each other and die. So, at 6 ft is our minimum standard for evergreens. These are proposed to be evergreens. So, some kind of pine tree of some sort. Um you can't you can require um the insulation around the That can be a condition you can put on. >> Sorry, when you say 6 ft, you mean 6 ft separation between the trees, not 6 ft or 6 ft height. >> 6 ft high. >> Yeah, okay. >> What is our fence height? >> Mhm. >> All right. >> So, there was a a talk so I and you maybe we can put this in when we uh vote. Um, are you okay with changing the material from that 90% opaque with the chain link to something that is actually meant for acoustic deadening? >> Yeah, and we certainly are open to that. We'd have to look into exactly what that material is. >> Yeah, yeah. I Well, you're obviously outdoor pickleball facilities are happening all over the place. I'm sure that, you know, you're in touch with some of those people. So, I'm sure you can get whatever it is. Right? Okay. >> We certainly open to making it as quiet as we possibly can. >> Sounds good. >> All right. >> Any other questions? >> No. Could you have >> Well, I just wondered if there is a in not instead of the trees, but in addition to the trees, there's a product that >> I think that's what we're talking about. >> Yeah. >> Chair and commissioners is put the trees in, but beyond that, instead of having a 90% opaque fence, go to a opaque fence that also is insulated, which exists, I mean. >> I guess I was thinking more of like a a backstop where the trees are. Another separate structure. >> And what purpose would that be for? >> for the sound. But, I'm just tossing out ideas here. I don't >> So, you're thinking uh the the 8-ft fence has acoustic deadening material because we're thinking about that now. And then, whatever that is, 50-ish feet away, there would be another fence and then evergreens? >> know what it would be. I'm asking if there is something. >> Yeah. >> I'm just saying with the acoustic at the fence like you're tackling the noise where it's happening which is still by the time you get >> Yeah. >> 70 yards from it's going to be you'd have to put up a 100 foot >> I I'm I'm understanding Mr. Minister my I went wrong with that one. >> No, it's all right. That's [clears throat] fair idea. But it it might also be putting a little bit onerous requirements on somebody that's already meeting the code requirements quite frankly. I mean that I would vote for slightly taller trees. I don't think that's that much more expensive and you know, they just you know, they'll get there there faster but it won't cost you frankly that much more money anyway. Um I do like the idea of the acoustic fencing at least on the side that is near the residences at a minimum because it's not even that much fence. >> Yeah, chair and commissioners I would suggest it would be on the east side south side cuz that way it's only open to the front. East and north. East and is it Yeah, east and north. >> Yep. >> So there's a product called for pick design for pickle balls. Um pickleball courts called um sport sonic guard which is a noise absorbing fence. >> Okay. >> So. >> Yeah. >> All right. I like that idea. >> All right. Any other questions? >> I do have a question for Mr. Karskido. So you guys said the trees is going to be 6 feet high. >> No. >> The trees going to be >> City code requirement minimum is 6 feet. >> Can they go higher? >> Yeah, I mean it reaches a certain point where they're not going to survive cuz they're it's not possible. You could probably go or you can't find them but I think you probably go 8 or 10 feet and they're probably obtainable in the marketplace somewhere. >> And stay living after they're planted you mean? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I was just trying to think like if they can match the 8 and the 8 so it looks more private, so they don't have to look in the backyard. That's what >> Well, they would grow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, what he's The point he's trying to make is that if as soon as you start planting a tree that's bigger than that, the survival rate of that tree goes way down. So, it never has a chance to grow. Whereas, planting the 6-ft tree at least stands a chance. >> So, Chair and Commissioners, you can require taller landscaping, you know, and you can require the acoustic fencing. >> Sounds good. It's up to you. >> Is that something you guys be okay to work with? >> If it's going to go through and be approved, that that is that's our best we're going to get, we're going to happily say yes to it. >> It's It's a balancing act, right? I mean, cuz they they have the >> It's going to change future plans for us, but I mean, I understand the need for business to improve, but um I think that the two people directly abutting the proposed plan showing up tonight after probably never having I personally have never having been to one of these speaks volumes, and yeah, if that's what we're going to get out of it, it's better than what was existing. So. >> Definitely the lesser of You were heard, for sure. You were heard, for sure. >> I know, I appreciate that. And I again, thank you for your time, but if it's the lesser of two evils that we have to go with, then that's what we go with. >> Okay. Any other questions concerned >> want to say something on the positive note again. Applicant doesn't have to do all this, so he's showing the positive intent. I'm willing to do, I want to work with you guys, I want to make sure you are being heard. So, we >> I'm curious what goes through to support after the facilities and and the noise complaints in the litter. Because so, hopefully we'll have a partnership that will continue on after he's making more money. >> [snorts] >> Yeah, I would say since they've been in there, the shopping center's improved considerably. >> Perfect. I can hear that. Since they've moved in there, the shopping center has improved considerably. I mean, it was on our list for demolition, so I I guess I would encourage looking to positive intent from his actions. [snorts] >> Yep, absolutely. >> You know, first Yep, and I I think I would assume that unless proven otherwise. >> All right. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Anything else? >> I have to close the public hearing. >> Okay, this is a public hearing and it sounds as if everyone has spoken on and I want to thank you very much for coming and for giving us this information that we didn't have before. It's always important to have the citizens let us know what they want and what their concerns are. So, it helps us in keeping an keeping an eye on everything, too, so >> And with that, I move that we close the public hearing. >> Second. >> All right. >> [clears throat] >> So, it's been Motion has been made and seconded to close the public hearing. All in favor, say I. >> I. >> Opposed, same sign. All right, the public hearing is closed. All right, what would you like? Talked about a lot of things up here, so what would you like? >> I think there's general consensus up here that one condition of possibly approving this is the addition of some sort of specialized acoustic deadening fencing, right? >> Yep. >> Okay. Um I personally don't need the trees to be taller to start. >> No. >> I'm pretty the the argument's pretty compelling, right, that if we start with six, it has a better chance to get to eight, 10, and 12. And if we started with eight or 10 to make it look good at the beginning, and the chance that that 10-ft tree survives is a lot less. >> And frankly, the fence will have more impact than the trees will for sound. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, for sound for sound. >> And that's the major concern. >> For for light, I'm satisfied that the lighting fixtures have the ears on them. That'll be a big help. Feedback will come your way. Make adjustments, right? >> And to the city's way. >> And to the city's way. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, are you making >> I Well, I want to make sure that we've taken like we've done all our discussion before I look to make a motion. Like is there any other discussion that we need to have? >> No, I'm I agree with you. >> Then and again if if it doesn't sound right, let me know. I move that we approve resolution PC 2026-011 approving a conditional use permit to allow commercial recreation minor use, the installation of up to four outdoor pickleball courts on the north side of Drop Shot Pickleball Tennis Space located 1100 Shockoe Town Square provided that the applicant uses acoustic deadening fencing on the north and east side of the the construction. >> Second. >> All right. So, it's been made and seconded that uh the conditional use permit be approved. >> Roll call. >> You need a roll call. >> Commissioner Forsythe. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Wyler. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Sandhu. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Redding. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Vandervine. >> Aye. >> Okay. And thank you again for coming. >> So, do not sign. We'll have to redo the resolution. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. So, our second public hearing is a conditional use permit for exterior storage at 1555 Morris Street for Biffs. Do I have a motion to open the public hearing? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right, so it's been made motion to be made >> second. >> You okay. >> To open the public hearing all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed same sign. Motion carries. >> Again, this is a conditional use permit for exterior storage 1555 Mirror Street. Here is the site. So the applicant is uh Biffs um owner is Mirror Street LLC. It's owned uh I-1 light industry. It's mixed-use employment center. Biff was previously part of an overall exterior storage CUP for the site that was revoked on February 5th due to a problem tenant. The property owners appealed the BOA's decision. On April 7th, the city council upheld the BOA's decision. Biff plans are to store portable toilets on site during cooler weather months. In warmer months, the toilets typically rented out and off site. Biff is leasing suite three of the 1555 building and will use the indoor space to store the equipment used to move the toilets such as their Bobcat and also to repair and dismantle portable toilets. This is their proposed So they're up in this building here and they're proposing this storage area here, which is 170 by 235 ft. Recommendation is to adopt resolution PC 2026 uh 013, which approves a conditional use permit for exterior storage at 1555 Mirror Street for Biff. Conditions of note are storage of unlicensed and inoperable vehicles is not permitted. Service work must take place within the building. The storage area is only to be utilized by the tenant of suite three and the existing landscaping screening must be maintained. >> Okay, this is Mr. Chris. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay, so just to make sure. So, Biffs then would only have the right to do any exterior storage inside of the red, right? Nothing between the building and that red. >> Chair and members correct. So, if you remember this site >> Yeah, yeah. Oh. >> This is yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We've We've been down this road a long way. Do you remember? [clears throat] >> So, now what we're trying to do is have conditions connected to a suite so that we know who's using the space. So, that if there's a problem, that everybody gets booted out, just the tenant that's a problem. >> And just to be sure. So, these conditions are tied to whoever is in suite three. So, if Biffs were to leave and someone else came into suite three, that that uh property on the east side would move with to whoever's in suite three. >> Chair and commissioners correct. That's why we have the storage of unlicensed and upper vehicles is not permitted in there. So, that if somewhere down the road it's a trucking company, they can't do that. >> Okay. Sounds good. >> Just to beat the dead horse, the space between the building and this space is being used by the other tenants of this property. >> Chair and commissioners remember, if I can get this to work. Here we go. So, there's a tenant right now that you approved that's using a space over here that's storing um >> It's the boats. Boat >> Boats and >> material and snow plow equipment. And then there's a truck repair place in here that has one of the spaces that works for I think FedEx. They have a separate CUP. This tenant right now um this is the one that had all the issues. It was using the space over here and I believe they're either on their way out or gone. >> Good. >> Any other questions? All right. Well, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone in the audience, the applicant, or anyone who would like to speak to this issue? Sign your name and let us know who you are. >> I'm Eugene Hanson. I'm the landlord. And I thought you might have some questions. So, that's why I'm here tonight. The history on this, uh, the Biffs have been renting from me for approximately 25 years. They were renting two buildings from me. One at 86 10 Hanson and at 1515 Mary Street. And they were using about 3 acres of outside storage. After 20 years, they, uh, decided they weren't going to pay my for my building anymore. So, they bought their own and I told them that was a good idea that since they bought my building, now they can buy one for themselves. Cuz 20 years of rent was a lot of money that they paid rent. But their new building did not have enough outside storage, so they they used about an acre of land for the toilets that accumulate in the wintertime. But in the summertime, they're mostly gone. I was there this morning and it seems like about 90% of the toilets aren't there or there a month or two ago. And if you remember this property, uh, this there's a photo making black dirt there. It created a lot of problems for the neighbors creating dust on the east. He, uh, we we removed him and we built this this building 1555 and asphalted the parking lot. We then moved Biffs from where they were before to the southeast corner of the property get them in the corner. Uh, cuz they just needed they use about an acre of land for their toilets. And so if you have any questions it's By the way, the neighbors to the east aren't complaining about the dust anymore. They're very happy with what we did. >> Any questions for the applicant? >> Nope. >> All right, thank you. >> All right. >> Thanks, Mr. >> I got in from Mesa last night. >> Is there anyone else in the audience who would like to speak to this issue? >> No questions? >> Anyone? Okay. Uh, and does anyone on the commission have any other questions? >> I'd like to ask a question. >> I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. >> Okay. Okay, the motion has been made and seconded to [clears throat] close the public hearing. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed same sign. >> I made the second. >> Okay, thanks. >> [clears throat] >> All right. Um, and what would you like to do? >> I'm not seeing anything too controversial with this one. >> Mhm. >> No. >> No. So, uh, at this point I'll move that we adopt resolution PC 2026-013. >> I'll second. >> Okay. So, the motion is made by Commissioner Forsyth, seconded by Commissioner Weiler. Uh we need a roll call for this. >> Yep. Commissioner Forsyth. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Weiler. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Sandhu. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Redding. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Vanderveen. >> Aye. >> All right, motion carries. All right. I have to get back to our agenda here. So, the next item on the agenda is um any other business? >> No, ma'am. >> All right. Seeing that there's no other business, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. >> To June 4th. >> June 4th? 7:00? >> So moved. >> All right. >> Well, you can have it. >> So, Commissioner >> He moved it, who seconded? >> I'll second it. >> Commissioner Redding. >> I guess. >> All right. Um all in favor say aye. >> Aye. >> Opposed, same sign. All right, motion carries. >> Yeah. Do you want to gavel us out? No, gavel us in. >> Oh, yeah. All right. >> All right. Well, now I'm gavelling in the uh Shakopee Planning Commission uh for Thursday, May 7th. We'll start with item one on the agenda, roll call. Commissioner Forsyth. >> Here. >> Commissioner Weiler. >> Here. >> Commissioner Sandhu. >> Here. >> Commissioner Redding. >> Here. >> Commissioner Cherres. Commissioner Vanderveen. >> Here. >> Commissioner Robbins. Thank you. We'll move on to item two, approval of the agenda. Are there any changes or additions to the agenda? >> Nope. >> Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Redding. >> Second. >> Second, Commissioner Sandhu. Uh any discussion on that? Hearing none, all in favor. >> Aye. >> Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. We'll move on to item three, recognition by Planning Commission of interested citizens. Is there anybody here who like to speak on anything not on the agenda? >> No. >> All right. Move on to item four, of consent agenda. Under the consent agenda are minutes for March and April 2026. Are there any changes or additions to those minutes for those months? >> Nope. >> Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Sandu. >> Second. >> Second by Commissioner Vanderveen. Uh I will abstain from voting on that. Uh With a motion and a second, any discussion on the consent agenda? Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right. Then move on to item five, general business. We got two items under general business. The first one is a public hearing on a request for additional signage for Canterbury Park located in the entertainment overlay district. Uh first of all, we'll entertain a motion to open the public hearing. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Sandu with the motion. >> Second. >> Commissioner Vanderveen with the second. Uh any discussion on opening the public hearing? Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Great. Do you have a presentation? >> Yes, sir. >> Great. Again, this public hearing for additional signage at Canterbury. Canterbury Park on behalf of Canterbury Park Entertainment LLC and Canterbury Park Development, the property owners are requesting five additional permanent exterior signs at 1100 and 600 Canterbury Road South. Includes one freestanding sign with electronic message board. And the PID is noted and two directional signs near the entrances off Shenandoah Drive and two wall signs on the grandstand. Properties are zoned major recreational. Some properties are also in PUD number eight, Mystic Lake Amphitheater, and adjacent to the entertainment overlay district, which allows for larger signs if approved by staff, the planning commission, and the city council depending on the request. So here are the locations of the various signs. So M is up um in the stormwater pond area at the um Unbridled entrance. And then we have some directional signage down here and then two signs on the grandstand building. So, here's the freestanding sign. This is a City of Shakopee parcel here. This is a stormwater pond. They've worked with engineering that they will build a retaining wall around this sign and make up any uh drainage area in this pond. This pond hardly holds any water because it's mostly sand in this area. So, it's a basically a infiltration pond. Here's the proposed sign. Then, here's the private road entrance on Sampson Way. So, these are the signs uh direction for deliveries, team members, preferred parking, racing, and the casino. Then, here's the other sign. Some additional parking. And here is the proposed signage on Canterbury Park. That would be lit. Um you can see in the lower picture. And on the other side of Canterbury Park. City county and Shakopee Public Utilities had opportunity to review the request. Staff views the request as reasonable to support vehicle and pedestrian circulation in the area with multiple entertainment venues provided the conditions listed in the draft are adhered to. The Planning Commission may grant approval of this request if it meets the intent of the entertainment overlay district. So, recommendation is to approve resolution R 2026-12 approving the additional signage for Canterbury Park with the conditions that include Shakopee City Council adopts ordinance O 2026-13 which you'll hear next expanding the entertainment overlay zone and the applicant show proposed signs and associated improvements on a survey, obtain all necessary permits, and the property owner shall enter into an encroachment agreement with the city for the freestanding sign prior to issuance of any sign permits. >> Thank you. >> Are there any questions for city staff? >> I have a question. That uh sign M is a digital sign, like a so the main sign the sign M, is that a digital sign? This one? >> Yep. >> This is um so they'll have, similar to the one they have on the other corner, this is much smaller. It would have what's ever going on at Canterbury because the amphitheater is before this, and so this is so people realize the racetrack is down that road. >> I was going to ask, what kind of messaging? It's not turn here. >> No, it'll >> It's It's event stuff, like on the main sign. It's not >> you know, whatever they have going on. And they're limited by state law um off the county highway, similar to the similar type timing on their other sign. I think it's 8 or 10 seconds it changes. >> It's about the same size that like the other sign? >> This one's much smaller than the other sign. >> Okay. And it's only facing towards the road, right? It's only facing one side of the road. >> No, it's It's on It has two faces to it. >> Okay. Right? >> Yes. >> Great. Any other questions for city staff before we open it up? Is there anybody here who'd like to speak on this? >> Nope. >> Do we have any questions for the applicant? >> [snorts] >> As someone who drives through this uh every day and there's new roads and old roads that aren't there anymore, I think all this is great. It's going to help traffic. You know that's a a concern in general. >> If there is nobody would like to speak, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Wiler with the motion, Commissioner Vanderveen with the second. Any discussion on closing public hearing? Hearing none, all in favor? >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? Great. All right. So, public hearing's closed. We can certainly discuss it among ourselves if we like or we can go straight to a motion. >> I move to adopt resolution PC 2026-12 approving the additional signage as listed. >> Thank you, Commissioner VanderVere. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Commissioner Wiler with the second. All right, any discussion on the motion on the table? All right, we'll go to roll call vote. Okay. Commissioner Forsythe? >> I. >> Commissioner Wiler? >> I. >> Commissioner Sandu? >> I. >> Commissioner Redding? >> I. >> Commissioner VanderVere? >> I. >> Thank you, that passes unanimously and that puts us to item 5B under general business the public hearing ordinance O 2026-013 amending the entertainment overlay district to include additional properties. Um So, since this is a public hearing, we'll first move to open the public hearing. >> So moved. >> Commissioner Sandu with the motion. >> Second. >> Commissioner Wiler with the second. Any discussion on opening the public hearing? Hearing none, all in favor? >> I. >> I. Any opposed? Great. Mr. Preston. >> Again, this is public hearing ordinance O 2026-13 amending the entertainment overlay district. So, in 2024 City Council approved this ordinance creating the entertainment overlay district for the Mystic Lake Amphitheater area to the south and the water tower site. The overlay zone allows for flexibility in signage and hours operations. Staff is proposing to expand the zone to include seven additional properties adjacent to the existing boundary to the north west associated with Canterbury Park horse racing and gambling campus. So, here are the parcels currently kind of in that orange color are within that zone and the new zone would be the kind of area in green. Staff's recommendation is adopt to recommend the City Council adopt ordinance O-2026-13 to the City Council. >> Thank you, Mr. Kursky. And if you could just maybe talk a little bit about what this means, right? Expanding this district. Like what is What does that mean for, you know, operations for the city, for the district? >> So, the chair and council if and commissioners if you saw the painful council meeting on Monday where we had nothing but technical problems, um eventually over time, um this area in the orange is going to expand into other areas of Canterbury's property, and then they have plans to do additional expansion around the track past where the boardwalk is. So, instead of doing them one at a time and paying, we decided just to make the whole area so that once this redevelops, they're all covered under one zone. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions for staff? All right. This is a public hearing. Is there anybody here that like to speak on this? I mean >> I'll move to close the public hearing. >> Thank you, Commissioner Wiler. There's a motion to close the public hearing. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Commissioner Redding with the second. Uh any discussion on closing the public hearing? Hearing none, all in favor? >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? All right. So, then the public hearing's closed. Um and then like I said, we can discuss this or we can go straight to a motion. >> I will move to recommend adoption of ordinance O-2026-013. >> Thank you. >> I'll second. >> Commissioner Redding with the second. Uh any discussion on that? The only thing I'll say, right, is that this is just a recommendation of adoption that goes to the City Council. Yeah, this is This is not >> next agenda. >> This is not final, right? This is Yeah. Okay, great. All right, so we do have motion and second on recommending the adoption of ordinance O-2026-013. Uh then we'll go to a roll call vote. >> Commissioner Forsythe. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Weiler. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Sandhu. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Redding. >> Aye. >> Commissioner Vanderveen. >> Aye. >> Thank you, that passes unanimously and then we move on to item six, other business. Is there any other business? >> No, sir. >> All right. Hearing none, we'll move on to item seven and entertain a motion to adjourn >> to June 4th at 7:00 p.m. >> That sounds great. We'll do adjourn specifically to June 4th at 7:00 p.m. >> So moved. >> We got motion from Commissioner Sandhu, is there a second? Second, Commissioner Weiler with the second. Any discussion on adjournment? Uh hearing none, all in favor. >> Aye. >> Aye. Any opposed? All right, it passes unanimously at 8:24.