[Music] Uh, let's call the Shakabby City Council meeting for August 6th, 2025 to order. If we could take, please take the role. Council member Delaney >> here. >> Council member Whitey >> here. >> Council member Contrarus >> here. >> Council member Laura >> here. >> And Mayor Layman >> here. >> Item number three. Please join us in the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. That's right. >> Item number four is a special presentation uh by State Representative Mr. Ben Bakeberg. If Mr. Bakeberg, if you want to come on up to the podium here and have a seat, go ahead and pull that mic close to you. It's heavy, so it doesn't seem like it wants to move, but it does move. >> All right. How's that? >> Good, sir. >> I'll use my inside voice. Um, so well, thank you for having me. Uh I don't know how special this presentation is going to be. Um so I'll try to try to live up to that. But um my name is Ben Bakeber. I have the the privilege to serve um a portion of Shakipi and then the surrounding townships. I also represent communities of Prior Lake and Jordan and uh in the Minnesota House of Representatives and I work on or I serve on two different committees. the labor and workforce uh committee uh formerly known as the jobs committee and then um I'm the vice chair of the or co-vice chair of the education finance committee. So in my normal life I'm a middle school principal so that's a a natural connection there. And um when we came into session you know we we did a lot of listening so that we could really try to address the needs that were were coming from our constituents uh across the district. So, one of the or the the pretty consistent themes that we heard centered around fraud uh and stopping fraud. So, that was one of the main pillars that u that we worked for in the house to address uh um we're approaching a billion dollars in fraud uh in Minnesota. So addressing that, making Minnesota affordable, uh making Minnesota safe, taxpayer dollars for motans, building for the future, that's the um the bonding bill. Uh those were all priorities for us. And within that bonding bill, our main focus um as a caucus was really around that critical infrastructure. So, roads, bridges, water, uh because many of our communities across the the state don't have the ability to address some of those needs and their only avenues through the bonding bill. So, uh we did that. I'll say in advance, if you're traveling south on 169 for the next couple years, we'll just apologize in advance. Uh 169 is torn apart. There's a lot of really good work happening there, but but that is the last stoplight between St. Peter uh and the metro and as a major corridor of comm commerce. So, it'll have a huge impact not only for the community of Jordan, but for for Shakapei, for Prior Lake and all of Scott County. So, that's a a major piece uh there. the the last pillar that we that we tried to focus on was raising standards and reducing mandates. And that that's really the education focus. And to be honest, that's where I spend a bulk of my time and energy um just given my background. And um I was recently at the Chak school board meeting talking to them about some specific education pieces that we're working on. So I'm sure everyone tuned in to that. So for that riveting conversation and I think it really boils down to um you know there there's a difference of opinion where we especially in an education area we don't need a state-run school board. We don't need a state-run city council. You are all elected at the city level. Uh and you should be empowered to make the decisions that are best for your constituents because you're closest to those people. So whether it be the zoning laws and and a push for more affordable housing, I think we all agree with that, but it's just how do we do that? And and should we allow uh Met Council or um people in St. Paul to make the decisions or should we have you be making those decisions about how development happens in Shakipi? I just fundamentally believe that you're better positioned to do that. Uh so that's where again I continued to champion for local control when it came to to to housing. The other piece that is I think is really important to keep in mind um many of the benefits that were passed uh in the 23 24 whether it be around paid family medical leave, earn sick and safetime. Well earn sick and safetime has rolled out paid family medical leave is coming and that is going to have an impact on all of our communities. Um, and that was something that we tried to cons consistently uh as we heard from constituents, this needs to be addressed. Um, and and we have work to do in that area as well. So, when we ended session, um, I could go in and I could talk about the ups and the downs and the special elections and all of that, but we ended session with the largest, um, cut in spending in uh, in Minnesota history. We have uh when we came into session, we were facing a $6 billion deficit. When we came into session in 23, we had an $18 billion surplus. So, um simple math, we are spending more than we're taking in. So, we have to reduce spending. Um there's there's a difference of opinion from some of my DFL colleagues that we should raise taxes, but we have to keep in mind that in the last session, we raised taxes by 10 billion dollars. We grew government by 40%. So, um, we were able to stop any tax increases on families. Uh, that get gets back to that pillar of making Minnesota affordable for our families. There was a lot of talk about shifts in cost. So, we were going to balance the budget of the state on the backs of cities, counties, and school districts. And to me, that's simply unacceptable. Um, we grew government. Um, we should be cutting spending at the state level, not shifting that burden. Had we not done that, uh you would be faced with a very very difficult decision. You're still going to be faced with many difficult decisions. Um but it would be even worse uh because it we would have seen the largest increase in county taxes and then you as the city would have to make some difficult decisions on top of what the school district has already talked about that they're going to be doing. Um um there's a a bipartisan uh you know contrary to what the news may say there's a lot of really good bipartisan work happening. One of those things that directly impacts us in in the area uh with Shak Valley News no longer up and going um we were able to get a fix for us locally when we don't have a newspaper for the posting of those public notices. Um, before I I I wrap up and obviously would would open it up to questions, uh, I would be remissed if I didn't address the just the horrific tragedy of of Melissa Hortman and her husband, uh, their assassination and and Senator Hoffman um, you know, being being attacked in his home. And I think the that situation has brought out that that horrific situation has exposed the worst of our society. But also, there have been glimmers over the summer of where the best of our society has come together and and Mayor Layman, I I think about about your your daughter-in-law and uh what your family is going through and and just I I I really want to encourage people to remember just the amazing people that serve our communities. And um we have to get back to having conversations. We can have a difference of opinion. That's that's great. But um we saw the best of our society when when your daughter-in-law was in that accident. And um people rallying together and and that's what I um am going to continue to to elevate those voices, those common sense solutions to solve the problems that we're all facing. Um because what happened on uh the evening of June 14th is is unacceptable and and we have to get to a place where we can have have robust debates about what we do and then we walk out the door uh and we can we can be friends and neighbors with people that have a difference of opinion. So with that, I'd open it up to questions. >> Questions for Representative Bakeberg? Start on this side. >> Nothing here, >> Mr. White. I might have a little or if you could just give me a little more when you talk about fraud that people were talking you know that was one of the big um concerns tell us a little bit more like social security fraud or you know um benefit fraud so um or I don't know what type of fraud or everything in general. Yeah, I mean it's it's multiple agencies, multiple programs. Feeding our future is the most common one that that people are familiar with, but um yeah, those are those are the pieces that keep coming. We had uh a proposal, Senator Pratt was was one of the um the authors of it around the Office of Inspector General having an agency outside of of each state agency to be able to have oversight. we have something um um we had multiple opportunities to address that and and it just didn't happen and it's work that we have to do and we continue to have examples of fraud come out um >> you know >> unfortunately it seems like on a weekly basis but feeding our futures is the the example that people are most familiar with. >> Got it. Thank you. There was a house stability uh >> agency that had fraud is under investigation now and they found fraud there. And then there was another one that was a daycare centered fraud that was I think that was prior to the feeding the the future fraud. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, >> lots of it within within daycare within housing stability. And I think the thing that is most frustrating is these dollars are intended to help our most needy and vulnerable people. Correct. And and I sometimes we get there are these blanket statements that all of this group or all of that group are committing fraud and nothing is further from the truth. There are bad actors taking advantage of a system. Um, and we as as as elected officials, we have to improve the system and we have to have the political will to improve the system so they can't take advantage of people so that those taxpayer dollars go to the people that actually need them. >> I mean, a billion dollars in fraud. Think about the good that could be done with that billion dollars. >> Very true. Thank you. >> Anything else? Counselor Mr. Lara? >> I don't have any questions. >> Mr. Reynolds. >> Uh, sir, just from a staff perspective, I really want to thank you anytime we have a question or need some help on an issue. Representative Bakeberg has just been great, willing to step up. Uh, you know, even though you only own a small sliver of Shakipi, uh, you've always been willing to help us out and thank you very much. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Representative Bakeberg. My comments would be uh unfunded mandates absolutely uh very difficult for cities, counties, townships. Um, you know, it's one thing if the state wants to put a mandate on others, but uh to force that funding onto us also is is kind of a double whammy. And a lot of times some of them mandates, they don't even seek the input. So, we appreciate your ear on a lot of those things. Second would be the Met Council. Uh, I've been consistent for 25 years. Met Council definitely if there if we're not going to have the willpower to abolish them. Uh the C this council's position has been to restructure along with Scott County is also on that with many of the cities in Scott County supporting that uh concept where you'd have a couple of county commissioners from the seven county metro area serving in that capacity with your experts from the sewer and the highway mind and stuff. Um and then they would we could hold them accountable as elected if they're not representing the area that they are elected in. Um still support that concept. Uh there just doesn't seem to be the will on either side of the aisle for that. So Mr. Whiting, >> you mentioned the Met Council. got good question for me. But I know Prior Lake part of your uh your area is uh uh serviced by MVTA and uh MBTA is our transit uh provider out here and uh consistent funding through the Med Council and consistent funding mechanisms for our transit uh our opt- out transit providers is something that's just unnecessary and should be fixed. uh having those those dollars there on a regular basis so it's not a constant battle back and forth. Well, and I'll just expand the bigger the bigger problem and some people don't like to say this public, but I will is they provide their own system in direct competition with the opt outs and the surrounding areas and they have a unique uh ability to tax and fund um without representation and a a financial confict. ICT in some of these decisions um that normally would not be allowed in a normal sector, >> right? Well, the the idea is MVTA gets a certain portion but on but the Met Council has to take care of their structural deficits first, right? >> And then we get whatever's left on the table. So that that's not right. We should get what what's coming under those dollars that our communities are, you know, we paid in. That's what we should get back. So, uh, if you could take, uh, a look at some of those MBTA things, I can definitely send some more, uh, points. >> Tough is better out a long time. So, >> the talking points, uh, are probably better read. >> We appreciate you stopping by, Representative. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. U, Mr. Reynolds, I just want to thank you, too, for your work on the the 169 funding and then the lighting uh, of that sign, too. And I was specifically talking about that and the conversation we had on that and I thank you so much for all your assistance. >> Yeah. And and Representative Tab Key deserves credit for work as well. So, >> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Item number five would be approval of the agenda. Is there any changes to our agenda? >> Nothing from staff, sir. >> Council councelor Contrers, >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. >> Is there a second to the motion? >> Second. Second by Mr. Delaney. Any discussion on the motion? Discussion. All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Motion passes. >> Item number six, consent agenda. Any changes to the consent? >> Nothing from staff, sir. >> Mr. Lara, >> I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Second. >> Okay. I am going to remove two items, 6 and 6 U. So, if you want to amend your motion to accept that, that would be in order. >> Make a motion to approve the consent agenda as modified. >> And the second was Mr. Whiting. >> I I'll accept that. >> Okay. >> Is it OU? >> O Nu. Correct. All right. Any discussion on the motion? Mr. Reynolds, if you'd please read the consent agenda. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Members of council, these are the consent agenda items for Wednesday, August 6th. 6A authorizes final acceptance and payment for the Eagle Creek Boulevard and Beerling Drive roundabout project. 6B authorizes final acceptance and payment for the Coburn Drive extension project. 6 C declares costs to be assessed and estab assessed and establishes a public hearing for the 2025 full depth pavement reconstruction project. 6D accepts a proposal from WSB for design and construction services for the Quarry Lake Erosion Restoration Improvements Project. 6E addresses surplus equipment. 6F awards a contract for Mary'stown Road reconstruction project. 6G approves offsale and Sunday liquor licenses for Booze Bros doing business as Express Liquors. 6H approves 3.2 on sale wine and Sunday liquor licenses for soy 21 Asian beastro and bar. 6 I approves the traffic safety committee recommendations for traffic control changes. 6J is the Minnesota Department of Public Safety's towards zero deaths enforcement program grant application. 6K is the Minnesota Department of Public Safety's DWI and Traffic Safety Officer Grant Program application. 6L approves the city council meeting minutes for July 15th of 2025. 6M awards a contract for the demolition of 2405 Jennifer Lane. 6N approves change orders for the Jackson Commons with Pathfinders. 6P approves a special event permit and a temporary liquor license for the City of Shockby TAP 2025 event. Tickets on sale now. 6Q approves a special event permit and a temporary liquor license for the Shaki Chamber of Commerce. 6R approves a tobacco license for Booze Bros doing business as Express Liquors. 6S requests a hearing on Tuesday, September 2nd of 2025 for Texas Roadhouse Holdings LLC. doing business as Texas Roadhouse. 6T authorizes execution of a local road improvement program grant agreement with Mandot for the Mary'stown Road Reconstruction Project. 6V is ordinance 0, excuse me, 02025 tax 019 amending the city's adopted 2025 fee schedule. >> Thank you, Mr. Reynolds. Any further discussion on the motion? discussion. All in favor say I. >> Opposed? Motion passes. Item number seven, public comment. If you're here for an item that is not on the agenda, now would be the time to step forward and we'd love to hear any comments you might have. So, if you're here for an item not on the agenda, anybody here for a item not on our agenda. Okay, I'm seeing none. Item number eight, business removed from consent agenda. I removed two items. First one 6 and it's a contract for Houston engineering for civil work for amount not to exceed $35,000. The the question that I had was we originally had a contract for an architectural firm to do this same work and now we're getting a different one and we're adding a little bit to it. So Mr. Kerski mayor councel. So um Miller Dunwy is the architect. So we have that contract. Confluence is doing the landscaping and we had as doing the civil engine two years ago. They have been unresponsive and are holding up the project. So the we interviewed um Houston engineering they are ready to go and get the project done because that's the last piece of the civil engineering that we need completed. >> Okay. So, if we had somebody hired and they're not being responsive, any dollars that we had to them is going to this other firm. >> Mayor Council, that's correct. We didn't pay them anything. They had a change over in their office staff and don't have the people here anymore. And so, we moved on. >> Okay. And so, what does the the total amount? >> So, so they are not the contract you have is a not to exceed 35,000. That was the worst case scenario. I think the original contract you had was close to 16,000 with >> Okay. So the total would be 51 52 somewhere in there. >> No, the total So the original contract let's say was 16,000. Your new contract's 35,000. We never paid the 16,000. >> Okay. So it's not on top of No, sir. >> Okay. So the 16 that we're not paying can go toward the 35. So really the difference is what we're looking at. >> Y very good. Mr. follow up since you opened it up. Is working on anything else for our city? >> Uh mayor and council, they've assisted the city on our downtown lighting improvement project and they've been delivering that project for us successfully. Uh I'm assuming this is a different team that is uh that was on with Confluence for that project. >> Thank you. Mhm. >> So they don't have my the way I'm reading this is they don't have the >> elements >> the certain set skill set for this particular project that's needed. >> Right. >> Mhm. >> That that's how I understand it. >> Okay. >> Or mayor and council that might have been too small and it got pushed aside because they're working on bigger projects. >> Right. Okay. All right. Wishes of council. >> I make a Go ahead. I make a motion to approve contract with Houston Engineering, formerly HTPO for civil work for an amount not to exceed 35,000. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Motion by Mr. Delaney, seconded by Mr. Lara. Is there any discussion on the motion? >> All good. No >> discussion. Seeing seeing none. All in favor say I. I. Opposed. Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Kerski. second one that I took off the consent was 6U, which is the uh social district policy that was approved by state legislation. And this one on page 88, was it 88? Nope, it was 81. I'm sorry. And it read a lot of documents the last uh week or so, but maybe I'm reading this wrong. Fact number two, question. Can alcoholic beverages from other participating businesses be brought into another downtown business within the social district? Answer, no. Uh, I'm not going to go further than that because a no is pretty simple. But if I go down to question five, may I bring my filled social district cup into a store shop within the social district area? I thought that was answered in question two, but the answer in this one is businesses will display window clings near their entrances indicating whether a social district beverages are welcome or not. So this the the way I'm reading the two, they're conflicting with each other. One says no, you can't and the other one says it depends on that business. >> One one is the the first is the >> businesses that are actually selling alcohol. the the second one you cited are are the shops and other places of business where you can bring your drinks in if the owner wishes to be a part of the of the flower shop or >> Okay, so let's go let's go back to the second question. Can alcoholic beverages from other participating businesses be brought into other downtown businesses? >> Mayor, the qualifier there is participating businesses. So that refers to businesses that are selling alcohol and using the social district cups, >> right? But right below that in the answer where it says no, it says alcoholic beverages purchased from one location are prohibited from entering another establishment regardless of whether they participate in a social district. C >> can we add from other participating serving businesses or >> Sure. Yep. I just think some clarification on that would solve your that >> Absolutely. I just it just seems contradictory because it's saying >> they're prohibited from entering other establishments regardless of whether that other establishment is participating in in it or not. And the other one says >> if they're not participating, you can't. >> So So mayor, your point we need to clarify is there are people >> serving alcohol and there are businesses that are retail merchant businesses. So you cannot go into any alcoholic serving business with your cup. You can go into participating merkantile businesses with your cup if they allow it. >> Can we just add a definition of serving and then beyond serving? >> Yeah, we'll make it clear. >> It's a simple. >> We'll just say alcohol serving establishments. >> I mean, if we can do that now, I'm good with it. I just want clarification. >> Otherwise, do we want to bring it back? What's staff's wishes on that? >> You don't need to bring it back. >> Just clarify. >> Don't have to bring it back. just clarify it. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I So I would say on your two, can alcoholic beverages from other participating serving businesses uh alcoholic service serving businesses be brought into other downtown serving social district businesses. It's got to be no >> that's serve serve alcohol >> and you can clean up that language on that one, I think. But that's sounds about right, wouldn't it? And Mr. Thompson can probably weigh in. And then five was what uh filled social district cup into other participating non-serving social district area businesses. >> But I think Mr. Reynolds nailed it where whether they are serving or not. So five is actually good. >> Just two. >> Just two >> based on whether they the shop itself wants to allow it or not. and they will be able to display that. So, two is really where we need to clarify that no alcoholic beverages purchased from one location are prohibited from entering another serving establishment. >> Mhm. >> Mayor will make that change. >> Okay. >> Alcohol serving, I think, right? Clean it up. Yep. >> Yep. Because then it's you're allowed to take it into a business if they allow you >> that does that don't serve. >> Okay. If we can So, do we want to pass that with that one change? Who'd like to make that motion? Mr. Thompson, you good with that? >> Okay. >> I will make a motion uh to approve the >> the state of Let's see. Let me Where's the language here? We got any good language? >> No, social district management plan. >> Yeah. Okay, there we go. I'll make a motion to approve the social district management plan with the adjustments we have discussed. >> Is there a second? >> Second. discussion on the motion. >> No discussion. Seeing none, all in favor say I. >> I. Opposed. >> Motion passes. >> Where does that take us to? Item number nine. Motion to recess for economic development authority meeting. Mr. Laura, >> I'll make a motion to adjourn to the economic development meeting. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Any discussion on the motion? All in favor say I. I opposed. Motion passes. Mr. Whiting, >> we will call to order the August 6th, 2025 meeting of the Shakab Economic Development Authority. Uh please make note of the role and uh we will move on to approval of the agenda item two. >> I'll make a motion to help the agenda. >> All right, we have a motion by member Contrarus. Was there a second? >> Second. >> Second by member Delaney. Uh, all in favor? >> I >> I. >> Any opposed? We have an agenda. Uh, first item of business item item three is the purchase and sale agreement for 124 Somerville Street South. Mr. Kurski, >> chair and board members. So, um, as the chair mentioned, this is a discussion about purchase of property for redevelopment on Somerville for $150,000. This is the partic discussion. If you remember, um this was an automotive shop and it's been a small engine repair place. Um the current owner five or six years ago, I think um had some issues. Um and got to know me through that process and the city administrator. He is now not well. um he at that time he had gone through some serious health issues and now he's kind of on his way out. So he call remembered all of those discussions back five or six years ago and called me and basically said I don't want to put this in the market just make a reasonable offer and I just want to get this over with because I don't have the time or the energy and I'm going to be leaving soon. So um he offered to sell this to the city for $150,000. It's probably the last bladed property that's downtown. Um, it's an opportunity we can look to see whether it is or could be rehabbed or it's also it's a great site next to a parking lot where we've made substantial investment >> questions. Mr. Lara, >> it's more of a comment um than a question. Um, so after reviewing this, I I just the one thing that stood out to me was um long neglected and I just I understand that the 150,000 is a lot less than what the current um tax assessed value is. But I mean, if it's something that we're going to be acquiring, um, in my opinion, I feel that the what I would move be comfortable with moving forward with is uh just the sale price of the uh land value. If we're going to be tearing this building down um >> whether 150 >> Yeah. Like >> because well, and you keep this in mind, too, we're going to have to pay to demolish this. Who's going to pay for that? So that the the the difference could be made up in that point. So, I I'm only going to be comfortable with this by offering the the land value if it's a building we're going to be tearing down anyways. I mean, it's I could neglect my home and then the city says, "Hey, we need to um buy my home so you can demolish." Like, it just I I chose to neglect it. I don't know the whole details of this, but it just doesn't sit well that we should just I I get he's going to get half of what it's worth, but put it on the market and see what happens. I just that's I just where I'm comfortable with. >> Understood. Mr. D. >> Similar concerns. My concern is it's a small engine repair shop and over the years environmental regulations change for how chemicals can be used and disposed of and my concern is we're you'll buy this and there's going to be some cleanup effort required because of again if it's kind of fallen into disrepair and again rags change over the years for chemical use. we may be spending 150 and spending additional to clean up with demolition. >> So, so mayor and council, the purpose of the EDA is to take on the difficult projects. Um, and we have over the past 10 or 15 years bought a lot of difficult properties to say it nicely and have either cleaned them up, moved them on, tore them down. Um the lot that potentially where the hub is going to go that was a gas station site that was highly contaminated that had sat there for years and became a blight. The city purchased that worked with the state on the cleanup and now has that land available. The whole purpose of the EDA is to take on the difficult projects that are adding blight to the community and this certainly qualifies that. This building I've been here nine years is in about the same shape. I think when the guy bought it, it was in the same shape. Um, it's just a difficult building and this is an opportunity. It's right across the post office, so it's seen by just about everybody downtown to really either get it fixed up or cleaned up and sell the site to somebody who's going to redevelop it. >> Mr. Layman. >> Mr. Thank you, Mr. President. My uh questions and concerns are as follows. First, I would like to know if there's asbestous on site. Second, I'd like to know if there's any borings for soil contamination under the site. This building goes back and had the city towing contract when I was a young boy in Shakipi and there was a empty lot next door that's now a business um that stored them vehicles. So, I guess that's the first thing I would look at. And then the second thing that comes to mind is earlier on our consent agenda, we approved the city uh tearing down a residential privately owned home that was in disrepair and and putting them cost assessing them cost right directly back to the property owner. Um we're willing to do that to our residential properties but not our business properties and that's a little concerning. So, um, >> yeah, that's my com. >> So, so mayor and council, the difference is that property has been vacant since 2011 and was had a fire and the roof collapsed and a bunch of other things. >> Understand? >> Not not in a redevelopment area in a single family neighborhood that undergone millions of dollars of investment. Y, >> this is in our redevelopment area. And you know, we over the years I think the city's had a pretty effective program at removing blight and this is kind of our last blighted building. >> Go ahead, Mr. Chair. I I share council uh Commissioner Lara's concerns that, you know, we don't we don't know if there's contamination. We don't know if there's asbesus. We don't know a lot. We don't know what it costs to tear it down. It's obviously probably not something that you repair. And them two factors are going to weigh heavily on whether there's any kind of redevelopment on this site or potentially put us in a position of of millions of dollars of tiff, which is future tax dollars no longer coming off the property where today we're actually collecting tax dollars off the property. So we it could be a lot more than what's before us than $150,000. And I suspect it probably will be. So, mayor, I would suggest that we could enter into a contract that would allow us to enter the property now and see because it doesn't matter whether it's us or whoever buys it's going to have to deal with those issues and do the environmental testing and then come back to you and then we can negotiate down the price if it's a big number or if it's not then we can move ahead. >> Anything else? Any other comments? So, I I have a lot of history and I know Mr. Layman probably has some history in this building. Uh uh I think it was a livery stable before that even in the past and uh I know it has the sway roof. I think it was built like that. That's how they built those roofs and everything. I don't think it's going to fall down like many people do. This has been this or this uh tenant or other has been at the city council and uh actually stopped some of the downtown group development at one time and actually uh helped promote some of the downtown uh at at many times. So uh my old historic truck was in this building at one time. Uh I see this though remember we always hearing things about uh we need more parking downtown. Uh we well here's here's a spot. Uh there's also a lot of grants. The Minnesota uh uh PCA has grants for Brownfield. I'm not sure if the city can get into some of those grants and things if there is some potential for issues. >> This is right in the heart of our downtown. Uh it could be a lot of potential and 150k that's nothing. I mean at the prices right now I agree we should probably know what we're getting into and do our diligence. But uh uh here's a great opportunity. Uh, these don't come up very often. Um, I think we swoop on it, but uh, I think you have some direction from the council to kind of come back with this with some more information. You need anything else from this uh, LDA? >> No, I think we're good. >> All right. Any other questions on this item? >> I don't have questions. >> All right. We have uh, we'll come back with that. We have our bill list as item 4. Any questions on the bill list? >> No questions. All right. Hearing nothing. Uh I'll look for a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> We have a motion on the table. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Motion to the second to adjourn to next month. I don't have it listed here, but we'll get to that. Uh >> all in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Any opposed? We'rejourned. >> Did you >> do we need a date specific for that, Mr. Thompson? >> No. >> No. Okay. Very good. >> Next month. Okay, we reconvene the Shaka City Council meeting. Uh we are on 11A monthly financial review. Finance Director Reinhardt. Floor is yours, sir. Sure. Good evening, mayor and council members. Uh so tonight I'll be covering our monthly financial report through June, uh which will also include the second quarter investment report. Um here is the general fund through June 30th so that we're at the midpoint through the year. Uh this is probably the first time uh we can look at this report and get a good feel of where we're at and where we're going from a financial performance perspective. Uh this is um there's still plenty of of caveats. Certainly uh things come up between now and year end and um there's some um timing issues with potentially large payments or receipts at the beginning of the year or end of the year uh that aren't reflected in and seasonal changes. For example, uh we typically have a lot of building permit revenue in spring um and early summer compared to fall. And conversely, uh we receive a lot of our grant revenue towards the end of the year. Um but June 30th typically is the best time to look at um our monthly report with some confidence of what to expect for the year. Uh so with that being said, if you look at the bottom line, which is um literally the bottom line of this uh presentation here, um revenues are exceeding expenses at 3.14 million. Um uh which is uh positive at this point point in time. Uh if you compare that to where we were last year, we're at 1.78 million and last year we ended up uh pretty significantly positive for the year. So there's there's some confidence that we're on track to uh be ahead for the full year this year as well. Uh which is uh definitely an excellent position to be in. Um on the revenue side, uh we were at 58% of our budget targets. Uh we did receive our first half tech tax settlement. Uh building permits continuing to track ahead of budget targets um as well as being up from the previous year. uh charges for services um are tracking ahead primarily from engineering fees uh related to development and then miscellaneous is also ahead uh primarily as uh primarily from uh interest earnings and then as I mentioned earlier um intergovernmental typically be um a little bit behind until we receive uh most of revenue in late fall. Uh on the expenditure side, uh we are within our budget target in total. Uh and I would consider uh each department reasonably in line with uh budget expectations um for this point of the year. Uh there are three red arrows which are mayor and council finance and building inspections. Uh they're uh over their budget targets at this point mainly because the timing of uh large payments for uh annual dues, assessing and audit uh contracts uh and software contracts all that had beginning of the year full year payments. Uh so as the year progresses I would assume that these departments will come um within line with a budget or be be very close. Um so I've also included uh in the council packet the second quarter investment report. Uh this slide shows uh interest earnings for the uh second quarter uh in comparison to the previous four years. Uh the green line being 2025. Uh we were at about 1.4 million through the second quarter. So slightly up from last year. Uh my um expectation or best guess is that we'll end ahead of last year and probably around 2.7 million for the full year uh in regards to interest earnings. Um and I always look at it from the standpoint of anything we can get um in return for interest earnings is just uh less that we need to um levy for. So we look at it from that perspective. Um I did add a chart um from what I provided with last quarter's report but I think this um kind of provides an illustration of what to expect moving forward. Uh so two different charts on the slide but relate uh to each other. Uh keep in mind both these charts are as of 630. So some of these changed a little bit but uh the one on the top right is uh Bloomberg and shows the predicted future rates of Fed funds. Uh the expectation is that we'll see rate cuts beginning um this year and through 2026 until uh reaches a 3% rate. Uh the second chart shows the city investment return um in comparison to three-year Treasury um yield which is our benchmark that we use for reporting. Um our um maturity average for our investment port portfolio is 2.5 years. So it's slightly less than that three years. Uh that benchmark being the blue line and the city being the orangest line. uh we have stayed fully invested, meaning um anything above what we need for operations, we've we've invested um which generally works out to our advantage, but you can see there there has been times um at least in the past couple years if we just had held cash that or a money market account, it would actually be returning a little bit better. So um so there are those little stretches of time that that does happen but generally speaking um your investment return is better in the long run when you're fully invested and you have longer maturities because typically the longer maturities will have a have a higher higher uh rate of return. Um so I think we are in good position with our current investment port portfolio now. So, if we do see rates come down as expected, um I don't believe it would have an immediate impact on what we might anticipate for interest earnings um over the next year. Um and I would presumably see see us if interest rates were to come down that we would end up being that our orange line would be ahead that ahead of that benchmark treasury that's shown on that B bottom chart. Um so, good news preliminary. Um, I was just going to mention too, uh, now that we're starting to get into budget season, um, I would anticipate that even if interest rates were to come come down, that we budget an increase for investment income for 2026 because of that. Um, and then the last slide here, um, is our, um, unrealized, uh, gain or loss. Um again the green line being uh 2025 and it compares it over the the previous four years. Um of this is the market value adjustment of investments which uh again we only do once a year at the end of the year but this gives you kind of where we're at currently. Uh the last couple years we had a pretty significant adjustment for unrealized gains because we've seen um kind of flat or downward shifts in interest rates. Uh so far in 2025 rates are down in comparison to December 2024. So, we currently have an unrealized gain of about 1.1 million. Uh, we do intend to hold all our investments to maturity. Um, so these unrealized gains are what they sound like, they're just uh on paper right now. And then again, they're only recorded once a year on on December 31st. Um, and as you can see from the previous slide, uh, market is indicating that rates will come down. So, if that's the case, we will have an unrealized gain for the year in 2025. So, with that, I can answer any questions that you might have. >> Questions of staff? Mr. Lara, >> it's a question I've been wanting to ask for a while now. On the entrance interest earnings uh report on 109. Um you said that we're we probably be ending the year higher than we were last year. So maybe about the 2.5ish 2.6ish range. >> Yeah, I would think we'd be about 2.7 >> So then when you said that that's less that amount that we would have to levy, do we pull that out then at the end of the year? Um well what we're looking at is we're looking at increasing interest earnings for our 2026 budget. So it gives you some level of confidence that we can hit that mark because we've seen our earnings come up over the past few years. And even if again rates were to were to come down, we're still fully invested. So many of our stuff is already invested in the higher rates. >> Does that answer your question? >> No. So, do we just keep >> let me let me try to answer your question and correct me if I'm wrong, but I I think I understand what he's asking. Typically, what councils have done pretty consistently for many many years, decade or more, is if in fact that plays out and there's interest earnings, uh, a large portion of that has been dedicated into the capital improvement fund. Okay. as a funding source. We also levy some dollars uh on the general taxpayers for the capital improvement fund. The amount that we levy levy isn't enough to sustain that that fund. Um but year after year and consistency of various councils by making these shifts have helped keep that levy dollar amount down, >> prop up that fund. >> Is that correct? >> Yeah, I would I would say that's correct. And and to kind of put a different spin on it, too. So indirectly it it will be less dollars we'll be levying next year because we'll be budgeting more interest earnings instead of budgeting levy to pay for these services because interest earnings can be spent anywhere you want. There's no restriction on how you spent that. So you're just basically offsetting your general fund expenses. >> Y >> yeah and then at the um where council or mayor layman was was getting at. So it just comes down to the bottom line. So interest earn is just going to be part of the line number at the end of the year and then it's up to council to decide if we have a surplus of funds where we want to use it which we've typically used for capital improvements or onetime expenses. >> No pizza parties and we don't give it back. >> Although although pizza parties are a one-time expense, >> right? >> Um and then just to reiterate, Mr. Reinhardt, that all of the investments that the city holds, what is that? Acriman safety. >> Um yep. So it's in the in the council backup. It's sly. So safety, liquidity, and yield. So your first strategy is always safety. And we're pretty restricted on what we can invest in, right, by state statutes and even more restricted by the policy we have here in Shakabby. >> Right. And I just wanted to have you clarify that for the general audience that might be listening. >> All right. Any other questions of staff? >> Well, that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. You're welcome. >> Never thought I'd see live. So >> 11B zoning map amendment preliminary and final plat of Lyanna Estates. I probably wreck that name but Mr. Kursky >> mayor and council this is for Elelliana Estates. So this is a resoning preliminary plat and final p uh concurrent of Iliana Estates. Rick Oberg from James R. Hill is the applicant on behalf of LA LLC Ryan Real Estate and 11010 Homes and Beverly Kanan's Revocable Trust. the property owner. The applicant has proposed to reszone the property from AG, which is agricultural to urban residential R1B and develop approximately 14 acres into 31 single family lots with two outlots. One would be a storm pond, the other is a wetland which would be dedicated to the city. Property is currently guided suburban residential, 3 to six units an acre. Uh the development meets the minimum minimum requirement. The proposed lots meet the R1B standards. Utilities are available to the property. The development will be served by two culde-sacs with access to Mystic Lake U Boulevard to be removed. Sidewalks are proposed on the north side of both culde-sacs and the east side of Avon Lane. Trails will be installed from each of the culde-sacs to connect the existing trail system in the Valley Crest development to the north and the county's trail along County Road 83. Staff is working with the developer to determine the appropriate amount of replacement trees per the provided tree inventory and finalize the landscape plan. Cash will be required for any trees not able to be planted on the subject property or in another location acceptable to the city. So here's the site. Um many of you are very familiar. This is where um >> the current owner used to have Peter Pumpkins growing pumpkins in the back. The house is kind of buried in the trees in the front. Mhm. >> Here's a survey of what the site currently looks at looks like. Here's the house with the driveway out onto County Highway 83. Here's the proposed um preliminary plat. So, the city owns the sections above that. So, this is where the Valley Crest Trail runs through and then it connects into the Valley Crest Park that we're currently working on. >> So, here's the final plat. Here's some sample elevations. This uh developer 110 is uh currently working in Whispering Waters. >> So, here's the grading and drainage plan. They're proposing an outlot for a drainage basin in the backside here. >> Mhm. >> This is the wetland that's being preserved. I will say the developer and the engineer worked a lot with staff. We actually eliminated and uh some lots in here and densified this a little bit to really preserve this wetland and a lot of the trees that are in this area. >> Mr. Kursky. >> Yes, sir. >> That number two in the top right corner, is that going to be city land over there? What's going to go on? >> Mayor and council, that's the back um yard of these um properties. >> The two is just floating there for not signifying anything. Huh? Okay. If I remember that's a drainage area, right? >> Undisturbed area lot. Okay. >> So, here is the tree preservation plan. So, they are saving a lot of the significant trees that are in outlot B, which is the wetland area. And as the engineer just mentioned, uh Rick said that this area is going to be undisturbed. This is where there's some pretty large existing trees. >> Where are you pointing at, Mr. Kursky? >> Sorry. Right over here. >> Okay. >> So, here's the wetland area. These are all trees that are being preserved. And then along County County Highway 83. They're preserving these large trees and this is area to be undisturbed so that they don't damage any of the root system to provide some buffer to these homes. >> Got it. Here's their landscape plans. So, pretty significant number of trees. Um, some trees along the backs of these lots and a few trees along the outlot where the drainage is. So, planning commission recommended unanimous approval of all the items at their July 10th meeting and staff recommends adopting ordinance 020518 approving the resoning from AG to R1B and resolution 202575 approving the preliminary and final plat of Ilana Estates and the applicant is also here. >> Thank you, Mr. Kursky. Before we get to staff questions, I wanted to ask uh Mr. Thompson, do we need two separate actions here or is one action? >> Two, >> two separate actions. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh questions of staff, >> Mr. Whiting. >> Are these all standard roads? Uh uh culde-sac sizes for our fire department and everything. >> Mayor and council. Yes, this meet all meets all the city standards. Okay. >> I think it's 1500 foot for max culde-sac. And we will be mayor and council connecting the sidewalks that are on the end here into the existing subdivisions. >> Okay. Other questions of staff? Mine is an engineering question. Outlot A, as shown on the map here, is is that uh storm water runoff? >> Uh, mayor and council. That's correct. That's the storm water management basin for the site. >> Okay. I I know prior to this development coming forward, there was concern by this land owner of water from the north coming south across this property. Um, and I know we put a lot of different infrastructure in for high water secondary outlets and things like that to go around the west side of the property and down to the channel that runs on the south side of the property under uh Conor Road 83. So, just wanted to make sure we're taking care of the water flow in the area. And it looks like that's pretty good size water uh holding pond. So, it's good to see that. Thank you. >> Any other questions of staff? >> Would the applicant like to make any comments? >> Any questions for the applicant? >> Good. >> And we >> kind of built houses all around that property, didn't we? >> Uh good evening, uh mayor and councel. Uh yes, we've uh had a a long not really a long journey, but a good journey with the staff and uh planning department. Um the project is uh obviously disturbing a segment of trees that are in town. But um we have a zoning requirement density to meet and we have just barely made it over with the lot count that we have. Um done everything we can to save uh the trees on the site. Um and actually um introduced planting some other trees in the outlot, but city staff has other um visions for how that should look and directed us on how we should plant those out lots that are be going by the city. So, uh with me today also is Bill Ryan, who's the owner and developer of 11010 Homes and um Ryan Real Estate. So, um >> thank you for Well, thanks for all the work you've done to preserve the trees and the in the development uh we looked at here. So, um, looks like a lot of work went into that and, uh, water management. So, looks like good project. >> Did Mr. Kursky, did I catch that correct? That we're just slightly over the density. Is that what is that what you said? >> Correct. We just, >> mayor and council, you know, the minimum density is three dwelling units an acre. And just a heads up, the Met Council is now calculating it slightly different. We just had a project that we spent months working on for a very small subdivision. They all approved. Now they come back to say they don't think it meets it because of some of the outlawed issues. So it meets it today. Um we will be back to the Met Council to ensure that they agree with us. >> If you need help at that meeting, I'd be willing to go along. >> Um so what is our density on this final plat? >> I'm sorry I couldn't hear you. >> What's the density on this three? It's 3 point >> 3 point. No, no, that ain't it. Um, >> not very. It's at close to the bare minimum. >> Four or something. >> 3.04, I believe. >> And don't we have for this zoning a minimum and then a maximum? So, we're under the maximum, >> mayor and council, it's 3 to six. So, the mech council minimum is three. And so, you can see how difficult it was to even meet the minimum in sites. And so how >> if you all know for the next comp plan the requirement is going to be 3.5 and as staff we haven't figured out how we're ever going to be able to meet that. >> Like I said I'm willing to go to that meeting if you want me. >> Any other questions of staff or the applicant? >> No. >> Thank you sir. >> Thank you. >> Wishes of council. Councelor Contraras. >> I'll take the first one. So, I'll make motion to adopt resolution 02025-018 approving the um the zoning map amendment reszoning the property from agricultural preservation AG to urban residential R1-B. >> Is there a second to the motion? >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Councelor Lara. >> I'll second. >> Discussion on the motion. >> Discussion. Seeing none, all in favor say I. I. Opposed. Motion passes. On the second question, Mr. Whiting, >> I'll make a motion to adopt resolution R2025 tax 075 approving the preliminary and final plat of Elelliana Estates. >> Second. >> We have a second by councelor Contraras. Discussion of the motion. Discussion. Seeing none, all in favor say I. I. >> Opposed? Motion passes. All right, welcome. >> That takes us >> welcome some new neighbors soon, right? >> That takes us to item 11 C, Community Center, uh, 2026 fee structure. Director McNut is here to do a presentation providing our equipment holds out for us. Fingers crossed. >> Okay. Good evening, mayor and council members. I am here today to talk about a proposed fee increase for the memberships and daily admissions at the Shakape Community Center beginning in 2026. So the action that we are seeking tonight would be to approve the proposed 2026 membership and daily admission. Um and this would start in January of 2026. Um I want to bring this forward now. I know it seems super early for a couple key reasons. Um the first and most important in my mind is we want to make sure that we're allowing ample time to communicate with our current members regarding um the price increase. Um there's also a fair amount of administrative work in adjusting pricing packages and so we want to make sure that we're being proactive with preparing for that. And then finally, as you are aware, we're currently pursuing our CAPRA accreditation. And we want to implement a methodology to determine our membership pricing and structure as we move into the future. And since um the community center is one of our largest or sorry, our community center memberships and daily admissions are one of our largest sources of revenue for the parks and recreation department. I wanted to make sure that you guys were able to see this prior to us bringing our comprehensive revenue policy which is part of our cap for accreditation which will likely be coming to you later this month. So before we get started in your packet I had a created a quick reference guide. If you don't have that easily accessible I brought copies but I sometimes think it's very easy to view it all on one sheet. We're going to break it down tonight, but if you need that, I have that to give you a little bit of comparison. Um, I wanted to show you how we compare to other municipalities that have similar community center facilities similar to Shakp. Um, so we looked at Eden Prairie, Chaza, Shore View, and Inenver Grove Heights. I also included Dakota Sport and Fitness, but I just wanted to call out that they are priced closer to the private sector really than the public sector, but since they're close in proximity, I wanted to showcase their prices as well and just how we compare. So, looking at this slide, this is our annual membership packages and what we charge our residents. We currently now have resident and non-resident rates and we'll talk about that a little bit later, but we want to start with our resident prices because we're here to serve our residents of Shakipi. So, as you can see, we are pretty significantly behind um in comparison to other lake facilities with our annual memberships. And then if we look at our monthly memberships, we're a little bit more in line with these in comparison to our annual rates, but we're still pretty significantly behind most of our comparable facilities and other municipalities. Okay. So, our first change that we would like to make is to establish a pricing structure when we're setting our fees for our memberships. Currently, our pricing exists, but they're not really rooted in any clearly defined strategy. And by establishing a formal pricing structure gives us a foundation for consistent and fair and sustainable pricing moving forward. Um, residents and patrons will be able to understand why memberships cost what they do and will aid staff in guiding them to the best option for their needs. We will also be able to better forecast our revenue and our trends in membership by establishing a pricing strategy. So on this next slide, it kind of lays out exactly what our strategy would be. So if you can see my cursor over here at the very top, um so memberships should be we're not right now strategically priced so that four individual daily admissions costs more than a monthly membership. encouraging people that are using the facility at that rate um to invest in a membership. And then our annual memberships should be priced, like I said, they're currently not um at the cost of 11 monthly payments. This gives a little bit of incentive to pay that in full and reward the long-term commitment of those willing to invest for a year. If we come back over here to the side, so our adult annual or sorry, our adult monthly rate should serve as our foundation for pricing of our memberships. Um, it reflects the average cost of uses and services for one adult and like I said is the baseline for all of our membership tiers. I would say right now, um, we that is probably our most comparable membership to similar facilities. So then we look at our dual. So our dual membership is essentially two adults up to two adults. It can be an adult and a child that are residing at the same address. Um so we would like this to be one and a half times the adult rate. Um it the dual membership would cost less than two single memberships because it reflects people living at the same address. And then if you look at our household rate, and our household rate is defined as two adults and their tax dependent children, that right now, again, we're not quite there. Um should be two times the single rate or more depending on what council decides. Um to again, they're all residing at the same address. It's more affordable, but it still counts for the greater usage of the facility that a family would have as opposed to one single user. And then lastly, we look at our specialty memberships. So we classify those as our senior packages, our youth packages, and our military packages. We would like them to be offered at 15% less than the base price to recognize these groups and reduce barriers to their participation. Any questions so far? I know that slides a lot. Okay. All right. So, our second proposed change would be to simplify our daily admission by eliminating the age categories, which is exactly what we did at San Venture, um, moving into the 2025 regrand opening. And we've seen a lot of positive impact from doing so. It's easier on staff. It's much easier to explain and for residents and users to understand. So, we would like to increase the prices for our resident daily admission from $8 to $11. Our current monthly rate is 44. So, that would satisfy our goal of it being four admissions equal a monthly membership. And then we would like to move our non-resident daily admission from $13 to $16. And these prices would now be completely in line with Sand Venture. So, it would cost the same to go to San Venture as it would to go to the community center. All right, our next change is that we would establish a percentage for the non-resident rates. So looking at 40% more for a non-resident than a resident for the community center memberships. And this would also align with how we priced our season passes at Sand Venture this summer as well. All right. So now looking at what we are proposing this pricing methodology and that structure that we want to get to is not going to happen in one year because we are so far behind. I think the impact to our current membership base would be negative. I think we would see people no longer wanting to be a member due to a huge price increase. So we want to kind of phase this in over the next I think it could be two to four years. Um but starting in 2026, this is what we are proposing as a change for our monthly memberships. So if you look in these first columns, this is what our resident rates and then next to it is our non-resident rates. This is what we're currently charging and then this is what we would like to charge moving forward. And then our annual rates, which are a little bit further behind, this is again looking at your resident rates, non-resident rates, is what we would like to move our annual memberships to. The caveat with annuals is if you took out an annual membership, say tomorrow, you wouldn't pay the new increase until your annual expires and you're set to renew. with a monthly membership that price would change at the first billing cycle in 2026. So that's just kind of a difference when you go into changing memberships prices on the membership packages. >> Excuse me. So So the proration from the time that you sign up for an annual that we currently utilize would just carry over. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> All right. So our recommendation would be to approve the proposed 2026 fee increase for the Shakape Community Center and daily admissions. And with that I will stand for any questions. >> Thank you. Questions of staff. Mr. Delaney. >> Just one question. So if you bypass a sand venture, you still have to buy a membership at the community center. Not >> that is correct. Yes. >> One or the other. Yeah. >> Run that P by me again. So if I if you want to go to Sand Venture, you have to buy a community center pass. >> Mhm. >> No, they're se completely separate. >> Okay. I misunderstood. >> No. >> Okay. Other questions of staff? Mr. Lara, >> didn't we at one point have a joint um if you had a community center membership, you could get a Sand Venture membership at a reduced cost? I believe that was and with the 2025 increase we did or change in prices for San Venture we did eliminate that this year in 2025 we did our 25% off for the 25 2025 reopening at Sand Venture >> um and when we did that and that was such a great deal we didn't really move forward with it but what we would like to do in lie of that discount is offer kind of like a promotion or a sale for community center memberships prior to Sand Venture are opening. So, they could still take advantage of that discount, but it would be more of a promotional time period. >> Yeah, >> if that makes sense. >> Mhm. >> So, are we raising rates because of the CAPRPA? >> No, we would like to raise rates because we are so far far behind with our comparable municipal facilities. And what do we expect to do with the additional $250,000? >> Well, it won't be additional $250,000. It'll be $250,000 that we don't have to levy for the operations of the community center. >> Okay? >> And that is with our current membership base. So, if our current membership base stays exactly the same, that's approximately what it will be. Our goal is obviously to increase our membership base, but what growth that will be is hard to predict. So, we wanted to be very realistic and conservative with that number. >> Um, I remember the lookout being an issue when we raised rates. Is that staying the same? >> Yes, >> that's all I got. No, >> I understand how Kapper wants you to have a structure and a plan so that they can see how your your policy is is set to grow and everything. So that's uh and it it also kind of eliminates the whims of the council a little bit saying, "Oh, we got to raise the rates too, but because we have a policy that drives that." So with that, I'd make a motion to approve the proposed fee increases for the community center bringing beginning in 2026. >> Is there a second? Second, >> Mr. Delaney. Discussion on the motion. >> Just really quick. Um, so I was just looking at the back um the one you have the proposed one. So for the adult the month monthly memberships, they're 44. They're going to stay 44. We're going to stay 44. And the primary reason is because if we stay 44 and we raise our daily admission to 11, that satisfies our goal of the four. If we were to increase that, then we'd have to increase daily admission even more. and I hesitate doing that. Got it. It makes sense. Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> The uh you know, one of the goals that well, one of the ways I've looked at this over the years is there's a a portion of this that is subsidized by the tax base at large. >> Mhm. >> In a general levy. And then there's a portion of it that is subsidized by the taxpayers of Shaki to the those that utilize it that are not residents of Shakipi, the non-residents. >> Um, and then on top of that, you have the comparables to other sites that have the same type of offerings and and what they're charging. And then on top of that, you have, you know, what's are your heating and electric cost increases and and payroll increases and all these other cost drivers. >> So, for me, I'm looking at this as a trying to keep the balance going forward. >> Um, >> just maintain. Yep. >> And and that's that's that's a good idea actually. So, I I support that. Um, and if I'm mising this, by all means, correct. No, you're absolutely correct. We want to be affordable, but we also want to make sure that we're being responsible, too. >> Yep. And there's, you know, there's a lot of costs that go into this that aren't borne by um well, that are borne by people that a don't use it. Uh and there's a lot of these costs that people are benefiting from that use it that don't pay taxes here for the infrastructure cost. So, yep, definitely some balancing. Any other Okay, we do have a motion in the second. >> One comment. Thank you for putting that together because it's I like to see where when you have something to tie the rates back to actually answer people's questions versus just kind of grabbing random numbers and saying, "Well, we just decide to charge." So, actually putting a base of that really helps. It makes such a big difference especially for our frontline staff trying to help those who want to be members understand what options right for them because we have a lot of different options. It's kind of complex so to have a structure and again it's going to take us a little bit of time to get there but it's going to make everyone's experience much more positive. >> Thank you. >> All right. Any other discussion? >> All in favor say I. >> I. Opposed. Motion passes. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> 12A uh review preliminary 26 to30 capital improvement plan. >> Uh Mr. Mayor and members of council, a reminder this is a workshop session now. So that means you can interrupt. We don't we don't normally go through the the protocols of an official stoic meeting. Feel free to ask questions. Feel free to stop. Feel free to interrupt. feel free to to have a discussion off to the side. Workshops are designed to be more of a time for discussion uh for ultimately giving us direction at the end and less formality, >> but be nice. >> But be nice throwing stuff. >> Uh good evening, uh mayor and council members. So, um you should have received the full CIP book as well. Um, obviously a lot of pages can't cover everything, but I'll do my best to at least summarize the information. Um, and as I go through the presentation, might not be able to answer every every specific question you have on each project. I know um, uh, Mr. Jordan is here, Mr. Kursky, Mr. Egan, they might be able to answer those questions or we can certainly get back to you if we don't have the answers. >> Oh my, >> I forgot my >> um, so I'd like to provide a little bit background and context uh, at the start. the capital uh improvement plan, commonly referred to as the CIP, uh non-binding document of future intent of city capital projects over the next five years. Uh we also have updated a 15-year um CIP and a 20-year equipment uh replacement plan. Uh those have been included in the book as well um and the appendix section appendix section of the draft of the CIP that I provided. Uh the process and document itself uh allows the city to plan for larger and more complex projects. Uh by design the CIP is fluid because uh priorities can change dramatically uh based on current circumstances. Uh ultimately the 2026 projects uh listed in the plan will be incorporated within the 2026 budget uh and approved with the adoption of that budget. Um and then our purchasing policy requires council approval on any project or any item purchases over 25,000. Uh so all projects listed in the plan um at least the vast majority of them probably all of them uh will require separate city council approval uh before the projects move forward. >> Yep. >> Uh the CIP is a prioritized list of capital projects uh based on the estimated year needed uh and then based on anticipated funding uh opportunities. Uh the full priority definitions are within the CIP book. Um but I'd like to think of the three priorities as um have to do, smart to do, and want to do. And then um one slide on the schedule. Um our plan is to do the preliminary review tonight. Um and then um whatever feedback that we have, make those changes or respond to that those and then bring this back in October for uh final approval. Um and then the projects again for 2026 will be adopted within the 2026 budget in December. Uh here's the total CIP expenditures uh by fund. Over the 5-year CIP, we have 146.6 million of projects identified uh with 54 million in 2026. Uh the larger projects included um are within the buildings fund, capital improvements um fund, the equipment and park development funds. Um I will go through each one of these funds in in slightly more detail. Um and then here's the funding source summary. um always try to emphasize that it isn't necessarily property tax that is funding these or even the primary funding source. Um when the sources are listed as fund uh revenues can include non-p project specific revenues for that fund. Uh so such as the capital improvement fund there that's um uh a few different funding sources that go with it go in there. Uh funding sources include park dedication fees, local, state, federal grants, uh cost sharing with local partners, franchise fees, special assessments, uh the internal rent charges with various various departments, and uh utility charges for uh the sanitary sewer and storm drainage uh infrastructure. Um I do want to walk through each of the funds tonight, starting with the capital um project funds, which include uh park development, capital improvement fund, uh and then the tree replacement fund. Uh by by definition, capital project funds are um are used to keep track of funding um and costs for larger projects that often span uh more than one year, which you um often see in the case with our park and road projects. Uh in the CIP book, uh each project has one project page for the um within a single fund. Uh but they may consist of portions uh from other funds. As an example, a street project could also have a uh sewer piece and a storm water improvement, but they're all just listed within the same project page. Uh in those cases, uh those are shown as a funding source within that project. Uh the park development fund uh which uh was established to fund new parks um or park enhancement enhancements is primarily funded by our park dedication fees. Uh since 2021, um look back and we've received 13.85 85 million in park dedication fees. Uh the parks listed here either um had park de park dedication fees received for that project or are contingent upon uh receiving park dedication fees or external funding to be able to complete. Uh we have identified uh just over 32 million in projects uh in the cap for park development. Uh 11 of them are identified for 2026 uh which would include the riverfront uh marina shredder house uh trailer trail wayfinding and amenities uh windm bluff regional corridor uh riverbank stabilization cultural corridor valley crest uh the village at Canterbury uh Lions Park um parking improvements uh Lions Park outdoor rink memorial park playground replacement and a level three charger at Quarry Lake. Uh the capital improvement fund um accounts for uh infrastructure improvements primarily streets. Um the funding is coming from uh the capital improvement fund levy um franchise fees uh municipal aid and municipal aid uh construction funds. Additionally, you'll see that projects uh are funded by special assessments. Uh this slide shows 26 and 27 projects. Um I'll put the 28 through 2030 on the next slide. Just didn't all fit in one slide. Um the 26 and 27 projects um include 2.3 million for uh downtown 88 lightning and rehab projects. Uh two projects outside of the annual overlays reconstruction which is the Marytown uh road and highway 169 interchange improvements which um part of that will be completed this year and part will be completed next year. Uh and then Old Carriage Court and Old Carriage Road roundabout project. Um the Mary'stown Road interchange is funded predominantly by a $3.7 million MET council award and then a $ 1.4 million uh local road improvement program uh grant. So both projects are aimed to improve the safety of those inter intersections. And then um additionally uh county highway 17 reconstruction and safe roads to school improvements have been included. Uh the annual mill and overlay projects include uh 3.7 million or total 3.7 million and then the 26 and 27 full depth reconstruction projects uh total about 8.2 million. Uh here are the remaining projects for the CIF fund um uh 36.5 million covering just 28 to to 2030. Uh the downtown quiet zone improvements uh is in coordination with the railroad. Uh that's contingent upon outside funding. city has submitted uh both a federal funding request uh and a state funding request for that that project. Uh here's the the funding source summary for the C from the CIP book for the capital improvement fund. Um I did highlight the amounts here that didn't have a specific source of funding. Um as you can see below with the funding sources identified, state aid, special assessments, and cost sharing, they're all listed out separately. So the only reoccurring funding that um that uh is being provided that makes up that capital capital improvement fund line item line line item is the capital improvement levy and the franchise fees. Um those annual uh those revenues annually add up to about 2.15 million. Uh so you can see we have a gap between uh what we have for annual funding and what we have uh for annual street project needs. Uh we've seen uh the cost of uh maintaining existing streets uh escalate pretty rapidly over the past 10 years. Um no difference than what I no different than what I talked about last time at this point this at this point in the presentation. But I did put a comparison on here. Um keep in mind uh this would just include current roadways. Uh it doesn't include anything any new construction. Uh if you look look back at the previous 5-year CIP, so the 21 2021 through the 2025 CIP, uh the cost of annual overlay and reconstruction projects in that 5year span was 20.9 million uh average of 4.2 million. Uh the current proposed CIP over the 5-year um plan is 38.7 million or an average cost of 7.7 million. So pretty close to double uh what it would cost previously. Uh we are proposing uh this year a $300,000 increase in the capital improvement levy uh from 1.2 million to 1.5 million. Uh this wouldn't completely close the funding gap but um would definitely help. Uh in the past we have used uh one-time funding sources which include general fund transfers uh which we can continue to do as possible but um probably not a sustainable future uh especially if the funding needs continue to grow. Um, also we didn't build in a a bond sale for 2026. Um, but I think consideration of a a debt issue to fund the street improvements for 2027 um seems pretty likely at this point. Um, tree replacement fund. Um, so those would be um fees charged to developers for tree replacement. Um obviously the any project in here is contingent upon receiving um uh I guess those fund or those fees from developers in order to do any projects. Uh moving on to internal service funds. Um so our internal service funds are funded through rent charges uh to various departments to provide funding for future replacement of uh buildings and equipment. Uh this allows us to keep um consistent expense amounts in operations instead of large ups and downs depending on what um pieces of equipment or what um building repairs we have from year to year. Uh the four uh internal service funds in the CIP are equipment replacement, park asset, information technology and and buildings buildings funds. >> Keep >> uh for equipment um I'm just going to show a slide here with 2026 and 2027 equipment again. Again, it's too hard to fit all five years onto one slide, but the remaining years can be found in the in the CIP in both the CIP section and the equipment replacement schedule. Uh we have a little um little over 4 million programmed in 2026 and 1.75 for 2027. Uh the largest being 2.5 million for fire trucks. Um uh which has um already been approved by council and ordered. >> Well, just quick question. I notice we have uh we added two electric vehicles. Do we have the tools and equipment and to maintain those or is that going to be additional cost? >> We do have that. >> Yeah. And and for those and I was going to touch on this too. So for the ones that um are new so that we haven't had um previously and we haven't been pre we haven't been funding them because they're not replacement. Uh I have shown them as as new on the on in the description. Uh so those would typically funded out of the general fund for the first year of the purchase too. So we'll have them in just to plan for it within the CIP. We'll have them in the CIP, but that'll be funded out of the general fund typically and then as they as we purchase them, the replacement will be programmed in there so that they're being funded through this mechanism. I'm not much of a fan of the electric vehicles at this point. Maybe in the future when somebody else figures out the technology better. They're dangerous. >> Yeah. And then the only other thing I'd mention is just some of the larger purchases. Um the annual squad car replacement. Uh park tractors, which are uh three John Deere with with plow plow attachments. Uh a large grounds mower. Um the Zambonis or ice surfacers uh for the ice arena. And then the rescue trucks for the fire department are are the larger expenses in that two-year span. Um so um a few years ago we did compile a 20-year equipment uh list uh which is included uh as an appendix in the in the CIP. Um we do not have any equipment longer than the 20-year replacement life. So this encompasses all city vehicles um and all equipment and listed out by department uh and also includes the replacement dates, lives, and costs. So, it's been a good resource when when planning um when planning ahead. Uh this is just a screenshot um from that schedule. Um the listing is formatted, at least for the CIP, so they can sit side by side and you can compare the the schedule. But the annual cost over that 20-year replacement plan is about 3.2 million. Um this excludes the equipment that's being funded by street and storm utilities, although they are listed separately within that plan. Um just to kind of give you a reference of how much we plan we typically can plan to spend a year. Um we have seen uh an increase in vehicle replacement costs over the last couple of years. And generally speaking, we've used a 3% inflation factor for future replacement costs. Uh so those increases as well as new equipment um calculate to a little over a half a million uh increase in annual rent rent costs. Um so this will have an impact on the 2026 budget. uh we're actually proposing a much smaller increase than what that calculates out to. Uh so we'd be proposing $176,000 increase in that annual rent cost for 2026. Uh and then the park asset um fund. This uh provides the funding for the replacement of park equipment. 2026 projects include annual trail and fence reconstruction, uh ADA ramp for uh Schleer Stadium, and a replacement of the concession door at uh Topar Park. Uh the parking lots include Scenic Heights Park and the Southeast Lions Park um parking lot um and the South Bridge uh vegetation project which is predominantly grant funded. Uh total project slated for 2026 is 1 uh 235 million and then over the 5-year plan is 4.8 million. >> Isn't the Southbridge vegetation management is that within a development or is that a city park? uh uh mayor and council that project is uh due to um the oak trees that are diseased within the South Bridge Dog Park area. So that project is identified to remove uh the diseased trees and replant native vegetation and new trees within the park area and mayor and council. You may not be aware of that project because that's new. That has not been in the CIP. That's been a recent uh project that we've identified as staff But it's not covered under the master development agreement of the overall development of Southbridge because it's in a city park. >> Mayor Council, that's correct. >> I see Mindot Boulevards and stuff here partial out there. >> Yeah. And I I I I can't say the percentage of it without looking it up, but I know um a large portion of that was was grant funded that we did receive a grant fund for. >> That is correct as well. and we've been applying for grants uh for that project and we're going to continue to do that as well. >> Um next slide here uh information technology fund. So this pays for our annual uh technology costs that aren't necessarily specific to any any one department. Uh these would include costs for uh lois um which is our networking cost, hardware replacement cost, software costs. Um yeah, and other um related costs like uh the the bit surveillance cameras and um replacement and stuff citywide. Uh 2026 project cost is 828,000 and then over that 5-year plan is 4.6 million. >> Uh the building, can you go back to that? Can you go black one 2029 8 Why did it go to 85,000 under wireless access? It went It's 3,000 3,000 3,000 85,3500. >> Um I can I can check on that. Um because I don't think I remember seeing anything on that individual project page either. Um so I'll check with it and I can um report back to you. >> That's where AI takes over and takes the money and runs for the border. Um so moving on in the building um is fund. Uh so that we this space for city building improvements and replacement. Um I have uh just the next two years listed on the slide. Again 28 and 30 can be found in your book. There's just um too many individual projects to list on one fit on one slide. Uh but the projects for 26 and 27 include the hub uh which is contingent upon uh securing um funding from outside sources. uh a million for fire station number two remodel uh which will convert the temporary living quarters into permanent dorm rooms and allow for overnight staff. Uh this money has been set aside from the general fund for this project. Uh and then 500,000 for the replacement of the police department roof. Uh the city center roof replacement that cost would be um paid paid for by the EDA and then split um 50/50 with the Scott County CDA. Um and then the total project costs include um for 2026 is 3.9 million. Uh we are proposing uh an increase in building rents here too um to a total of 1.5 million. >> Got a quick question for you. Well, I assume here is the police getting a new roof, but I know we're starting to bust at the seams over the police department. I but I don't see as any plans to grow, expand, or >> Yeah. So that I'm actually glad you brought that up. So the 55,000 which is the the project number the 260004 that planning and security. So we we also have um as part of our uh audit for um I'm can't forget the I'm forgetting the >> thank you BCA had a whole different ac. So as part of that audit they also identified okay that well you really need to separate some different things. So, we want to take a look at both those recommendations from that audit as well as um planning for growth and for structure back there. So, that's that's going to be all part of that planning and security study and you might see something brought back as a result of that for a future project. >> Thank you. >> Um trying to remember where I left off. So, the only other thing I'd mention is so similar to the equipment, we've seen a lot of these uh major repairs um we're seeing more of them and we're seeing the cost um kind of go up with some of these. So, we're also proposing a we will be proposing a rent increase for the buildings fund as well to help make up for some of those increases in costs. [Music] Um and then the last couple um would just be our utility funds or enterprise funds which is Santa Cl. So, these work a little bit different. So these are all being paid for from user rates. So any any infrastructure or equipment that's being used by these funds will be paid from user rates. Um so starting with sewer um we have identified about uh I guess 300,000 in sanitary sewer projects for 2026 uh which include the um sewer extensions and generator uh replacement. Uh the largest planned uh expense for this fund over the the 5 years is the L16 dual force main improvements uh of about 2.5 million for 2029. This would be uh a redundant line in case there was a failure within the um the current force man. And then the storm drainage fund um total of 5.1 million um in projects uh including 866,000 for 2026. Um and the projects for 2026 include the annual storm pond improvements, coral lake erosion restoration, uh skid steer and UTV replacement, and then um native vegetation management. So with that, I'll just open it up for any questions that you might have. the uh excuse me, one of the things that bothers me for many years is so we've got a general levy. That general levy pays wages, wage increases, and we have this chart that shows every year of about a $1.6 million increase on the long-term financial plan that we saw last meeting. Now we're talking about increasing building rent, equipment rent, and all these other charges which is also paid basically by the taxpayers in the tax levy. Um and unfortunately none of them cost are spread out to to all the residents in the community. If you're in a tiff district, they're paying none of this. They're not paying the wages. They're not paying for none of these increases. none of these uh equipment needs and >> well they actually are paying for the taxes that they paid prior to the tiff being established. So >> which is frozen and everybody else's keeps going up. >> We're not talking about tiffs tonight, but we have this conversation every day. >> Yes, we do. And it's why it's a bad idea to do that. >> We haven't done a tiff in a while. So that's not on the docket tonight. >> But I'm I'm looking for ways to lower these impacts because now I don't know if all of these increases are on top of the 1.6 6 that is on the long-term financial plan every year for 10 years out or if it's part of that 1.6. >> So when you refer to the long-term financial plan, are you talking about specifically the plan that we talked about a couple of months ago? >> Yes. You showed us a document that said this is our >> Yeah. So the the idea behind that is just to provide some general guidance of okay well what can you expect >> kind of at a baseline. So it's just a idea of you know if everything was exactly 3% increase for all this stuff what would it what would you expect? So the idea with that is just to kind of provide provide a baseline. >> Did that baseline of increases over the next 10 years include any of this these increases in building rents and equipment rents and >> um I I mean I I not necessarily. I mean there'll be um obviously we're you know the idea is if you look at this that long-term financial plan and this is the baseline is saying that all these departments are decre increasing by 3%. But you have this equipment that you believe okay to replace equipment because things are getting costing a little bit more in the future that 3% seems a little bit low. Well, conversely, your revenue that you need to, you know, pay for that is also probably a little low. So, if if that makes sense. So, if if if you've got a if you're um generally speaking, this is how much levy we need with a 3% increase, but your equipment's increasing by 5%, well, you know what the other side of that equation is going to be. >> Yep. And then the other side of of my thought process is, you know, and I've said it before, you you take a a road lifespan with six inches of under uh subgrade C5 and then you change all the the design standards and it's supposed to improve it, yet you don't get the longevity. And part of that is from what's not allowed in in asphalt mixtures, which we should be lobbying very hard to change. It saves state money. It saves county money. It saves city money. We get a better project product and uh longer lifespan. Um otherwise, what's the point of adding all these costs to it if you're not expending extending your life expectancy of these things? And and the same goes with vehicles. You know, I think the 20 years on on our plow trucks is probably about right. And you know, cop cars, could they go longer than four? Probably. I'm certainly not a fan of electric cars. I think they're a huge liability. I'd hate to see one of them go up in flames and burn down the rest of the fleet and maybe the building. Um, way too new technology and I think there's a lot of bugs to work out on that. But the bottom line is we we've got to figure out how to squeeze in what's really important and prioritize these core things and project. >> If that means getting rid of some of the non-essential stuff, I'm okay with that. But it ultimately comes down to the majority of council what they want to do. So, I mean, I'm not here to pick and choose project by project. I mean, I can if you want me to, but that's more of a a thought thing while we're having this discussion for everybody to think about. >> Go ahead. >> I just want to uh this is the kind of time where we can talk about this. I know at the last time we're ready to to sign off on all this stuff and you didn't vote for it because you said, "Why didn't we cut any of this?" this is the time to talk about some of these projects. If you want to see any movement on them, so if you want to not talk about anything now and then just not vote on it later, I'm going to have a problem with that because we have the time to talk about it now. Okay? >> So, if you want to talk about a project that you want to cut and and now would be the time, >> I would I would start looking. Let's start with park development. That's first on the list. First is uh our favorite, the 225.7 for the marina and all that stuff. >> Um what I saw on here, I didn't I didn't remember anything about a chilled outdoor rink for 750K, I guess. >> Yeah. >> Do you talk I'm sure we talked about it, but I didn't miss pick up on that. >> And I don't know, >> Canterbury Village. >> Is our ice time so over booked that we're we're in need of this next it'll be a dome over top of it that'll deflate and that'll be money. No dumb. >> Yes. So that one I >> that's going to come the lobbying with outdoor rink will come for the >> lobbying >> year round yearround uh bubble. >> Sure. >> Oh bubble. >> So I'm saying that you know if you avoid that whole conversation if we just cut that one. Um I'm not sure what the village at Canterbury that's connecting all the the trails. Okay. I guess we want to do that. >> Isn't that though um a park that's going to come out of park dedication fees? mayor and council. All of these are park developments. So the reason why the ice skating rink is on here, we want to try and use Sand Venture after that investment year round. And so that actually is >> putting a chilled rink in the parking lot up against the building so that we can use the community space and Tommy's through the winter, but also give us ice outside from Halloween through March. So most cities in the Midwest can only keep flooded rinks for probably two months right now because of the unpredictable weather. This would give us a refrigerated rink basically from Halloween through March that could be used for ice skating, broom, other recreational events. >> So I just want to make this comment. So I remember was it last year or the year before? I think it was the year before when people were reaching out to us because we could not keep those rinks going and they were like, "Well, what's our alternative? >> How much do we spend a year doing those rinks where if we have this refrigerated rink that's going to be usable?" Obviously, we're going to probably stop putting in some flooded rinks. Am I right? >> No. >> No, we're going to keep that. >> We're going to continue doing that >> until the council decides that they do not want to have uh non-refrigerated rinks. I mean, you know, and of course you're going to get a lot of blowback for that. The, you know, the problem is obviously, and we all understand this, is that we can't keep rinks frozen as we used to be able to for the length of time, >> right? >> And uh, you know, it's, you know, we've closed three rinks, I think. >> Yes. >> We we closed three rinks that were simply not being utilized at all. >> We're down to four rings. >> Like one year, we chose not to even flood them. >> Yeah. I mean, because by the time it was time to flood, it was already way past where we knew in a couple weeks we were going to be in trouble. >> Wait, maybe a week. >> Yeah. >> So, mayor and council, this is the same company that did um Hockey Day, Minnesota. So, some of the people in the community suggested reaching out to them and they're doing one in Deep Haven. They have several in Milwaukee because cities just can't keep ice anymore. So, this would actually be a rink that public works would take down and store during the summertime because the other thing that's hurting our rinks is the UV in our hot summers. So, this would be stored away. So, it' be used from October through March and then put away. >> I I'd be leaning towards maybe pushing that out a year or two. >> Would this >> But again, this is all park development. >> It's paid for through park development fees. And the the whole the whole concept is to try to utilize the Sand Venture area and and and that whole space year round. Um and ultimately this is one of the options that came forward. The the real question on park development fund projects is since it's funded with park development fees, the real issue to me anyway is what is the ongoing operational cost? Is it an increase? Um do we need other things to to keep this thing going? What's the replacement cost down the road look like which which ends up into your equipment park asset uh fund? Um them are the things I look at with park development projects. >> Yeah. And that's all valid. And everything we build is going to have to be maintained. Everything we build is going to have to be replaced. Uh we're a growing community and and residents, as you well know, want amenities. And uh there's some amenities that I don't believe this council will ever look highly upon, but there's others that we can do and try to find some kind of a compromise between a dome, for example, uh and having a place where we can have outdoor ice that actually is maintained and can be used more than, you know, 3 weeks during the year. It's ultimately your choice. >> But but you're absolutely right, mayor. All of this comes with a cost. All comes with an up upkeep cost. It all comes with a replacement cost. No doubt about that. >> Right. And and you know, I've been trying to say this over and over. When we do these new parks, can we can we do things that are have a longer life cycle? Um >> so, so mayor and council, we've been doing that. If you notice, most of our new parks don't have turf except around some small areas because that only requires either burning or mowing twice a year. So, it cuts way down on the maintenance. Um, on the bike park that we'll talk about that has instead of just doing what most parks do, which is either gravel or um, dirt, we used a carpet that has a 10-year warranty, so we don't have to worry about it doing any maintenance on it for 10 years. Someone asked mayor about the village of Canterbury. That is a request from Canterbury. It's next to the boardwalk. There's a large basin there with some trees and stuff to really clean that up. They have contributed many millions of dollars in park development fees and have no parks there. And now we have 600 plus units over at um Triple Crown. There's 125 units over at TE Miller's project and the town homes. This would be a small park in that area. It would also give people an opportunity to actually see the starting gate because they've designed it with a burm. That's something no one gets to see. you would actually be above the starting gate and be able to watch the horses when there's races. >> If I I'll leave the I'll leave the parks alone and move to capital and uh the capital improvement fund if you want to talk about the quiet zone because I think in conversations in the past. Uh 1.5 million was what what it's going to cost for one crossing. And so at at uh 1.5 and three we got three crossings covered. Now what what are we going to do with the rest of them? So, uh, this is the second bullet point on page 155, downtown quiet zone improvements. >> Mhm. >> There was two funding ask on that and one of them came in short. We'll see what happens next year. But my understanding is if we don't get the funding, we wouldn't be doing that. >> Yeah, absolutely. Everything you see here, if we don't have the money money for it, we don't do it. and and you know, this is that dart on the board that we're aiming for, but at the end of the day, if if our funding sources don't come through, it'll get pushed, >> right? >> And and this quiet zone has been floating around for >> 15 years. And do we have a handle on what that will cost if we really go into that and what all the aspects I remember talking about having two fences down the side of Second Avenue and to me that was a deal killer. That's part of it. >> You know, why are we even bothering? I I want I'd like to know >> it's not because that was what >> UP wanted >> and what we were trying to do way back in the day when Mayor Layman and I were on the railroad committee was to try to get UP to fund it because we weren't going to pay for it. And I believe back then, mayor, 7 million. >> Yeah, >> I think was was was what >> the number was. And then that included all of the things that UP wanted. If we're going to pay for it, which reality is not us paying for it, is either state of the feds paying for it, then then we get to choose what we do a little more. >> Well, and and regardless, we have to work through the FRA's matrix. >> Yeah. uh everchanging matrix maybe. Yeah. Of what their >> requirements are to meet their >> formula and which is a moving target, >> right? >> You know, and you know, their relationship, I've got to assume, is pretty good with all the rail haulers because that's what they do. >> And and that's where you get into these other people asking for different things like the rail haulers and they want this, that, and the other thing. You got to remember their mindset. Their mindset is the safest crossing is one that don't exist. >> Yeah. And they they've told us that in the meetings, you know. >> Yeah. We have to they want us to eliminate crossings and that's when the politics >> Well, they want them all gone. >> Sure. >> And that's just not reality. It's not going to happen. So we we figured we would it's much easier to go to the to the discussion about what the current matrix and formulas are that we would need to to meet to do these things when you actually have dollars designated for it. >> Sure. Um, and you know, if let's hypothetically if you've got $5 million designated for this from state or federal or whoever and you start talking with the FRA about doing these things and they start talking about 1012 million, it's easy to say here's what we have. We're out at this point, right? >> You know, >> and and the other piece is is that we can do this bit by bit by bit. And so what happens when you're talking about a quiet zone, what you're really doing is making the particular crossings as failsafe as possible to where the train doesn't have to blow their whistle. That includes double crossing bars on all lanes uh and other things that are involved in the crossing itself the way it's designed. uh and and we can do that and walk along and there we've already you know indicated that there are certainly the downtown sections would be the first to be done and then we would walk it down towards u u the stage coach area uh >> and some have already been done. >> Yeah, we we have some that that that I'm do they actually meet the standard? >> Marshall Road I think meets the standard and Shannonoa May now uh 83 I think does when that was redone. Mhm. >> So we do have some that are up to the standard. However, that FRA standard may have changed. >> Yeah. Right. And so the whole point is is, you know, any money that we can allocate, we're going to try, you know, even if we walk it over time, it's at least we're achieving something at the end of the day. >> So when you look at that from a capital improvement fund standpoint, it's it's not local levy per se. And operationally, there's not long-term operational cost. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> At least negl negligible. >> Next. >> Oh, well, I got a question on the the reclamite. So, we are now putting reclamite on our roads. Have we identified which roads that'll help extend the life out on so that >> what type? Yeah, mayor and council. Uh, this year in 2025, we applied reclamite to all roads that were recently paved in 2024 with the goal of extending their full life 5 to seven years for every application. So, the goal moving forward is to then every road we pave in the previous year, we would apply that same treatment. So, we understand what those costs are moving forward based on what our CIP is the previous year. Um this year we collected boring samples before and after application. Um and we're going to continue to monitor the results of those cores and we're going to continue to take those year after year so we can understand truly the benefit long-term on our shocki roads. There have been the LRB which is the local road research board is putting out a publication this fall that they've been monitoring other roads uh throughout the state as well. I'd like to have my own data in Shakabe. Um, so we're going to continue to monitor that to make sure we're justifying those costs. >> And how do we get the state to allow the change of federal EPA regulations to trickle down to the state to let us get the asphalt that you said you wanted? >> Uh, Mr. Mayor, I I'm not sure I fully understand that. >> Okay. We had a me, you and I had a conversation about what's the makeup of the actual asphalt. And there's restrictions on binders and fillers and some of these other things that can't be in there under current law, EPA standards. They they won't allow it even though it's a better product. Okay. Now some of them regulations are gone and we can go back to having some real good asphalt if uh the state would adopt the federal guidelines so that we could then get that asphalt. >> But you can the state can do rules that are higher than the federal rules. >> They can >> sometimes I guess. >> No they can. >> I mean >> they can they have to be as stringent but they can go farther. >> And then you you talk about old products. Well, DDP was really good product for >> they still sell it. >> Well, they don't >> best bug spray you can get still today 100%. >> Not not at the same level. But uh there's reasons why some of that stuff is banned and uh um >> well and there has to be that balance. I mean, if you can get a better product and and it's not doing substantial damage. Um >> we thought POS was really >> you're you're saving the state money on highways. You're saving the county's money, the city's money, and you're getting a better product. I don't know why >> cancer health insurance goes up. >> You know, you can argue that the car driver let's get back on that agenda in the ditch. >> So, everybody, >> I mean, that's what I'm asking. So, we've had the conversations on this uh CIP. Uh I haven't heard anybody else bring anything up. So, I'm just saying if we move this forward, I'm hoping that we can all uh agree with it when it comes back. >> Okay. So, you want to take it piece by piece? I mean, it sounds like we're all in agreement. We have a piece. Yeah. >> Wait, you want to go like project by project? >> Oh, no. Just like the big ones like park development fund. I think you brought that up and said everybody's good with that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Now, the capital improvement fund we're talking about. Everybody's >> I brought my point up. >> Okay. >> Did you have one? >> Uh going to the equipment replacement and Okay. Go ahead. >> What's the next one? Well, no. My concern was the electric cars. >> I'm Which one is that under? I would assume it's under just the number of pieces of new equipment, but they're under the first bullet under equipment replacement. >> I'm looking for justification for why we're going to electric cars. And I mean, it looks like there's an 8-year tradeoff versus our current four-year for cars as example. >> So, mayor council, we currently have two Ford Lightnings and two Maches. total cost annually per vehicle is $100 for fuel. So I think they're also um we haven't had any issues with those and those people similar to the police department are the most out on the road every day and so they have the highest level of protection for as far as technology, airbags, etc. And the staff really likes them. I mean we have had various people driving them and they're all really happy versus the vehicles we had. >> Yeah. So, and I think a $100 a year from a maintenance standpoint is pretty incredible. And they have an eight-year life. We understand that. But the battery is guaranteed for that eight years. >> Resale cost is >> Well, I mean, you made a good point though. You said that the techn safety technology is high in them. And if these people are in those vehicles for majority of their day, the liability of them being in an accident is higher. Therefore, our risk goes up. if if there, god forbid, there's an accident, they're gonna the safety, the outcome is going to be a lot better. Um, I don't know, maybe that could be different in a different vehicle. I don't know. But, and we've had one of them, I think it's a 2022, I think, or 2021. I think the only thing we replaced on it is the tires. So, versus not knocking the other vehicles we have, but we've had significant issues with some of the other vehicles and having been in an accident one of the other vehicles, I actually think I would have been in a heavier vehicle than the one that we were in. >> Okay, sounds good. Thank you. >> Okay. I I don't have any concerns about I mean got I think a balance of those things are probably a good idea. >> Uh then internal fund uh that's at innovation center, but we're not going to buy it until we get the money. >> Mhm. >> Right. Now, the fire department, that's something we're going to do with or without the money. We're not looking for money there. We got to get that done. Anything else on that? >> Well, we're still going to be looking for money. >> Well, if we get it, I'm sure there's grants out there, but uh that's something we need to move on. >> But the the question on the fire department is how much are we going to do? How fast are we going to do it? And what exactly are we doing? Because we're replacing some trucks for 2.5 million and and then we're getting other trucks. Um, I mean, are we moving to it? >> No, I'm looking at the actual building of the dorms and the fire station. That's where I'm at in the building service fund list anyway. >> Well, you've already approved that. >> Yeah. So, that's there and done. So, there we go. We're at the bottom of your list. >> Yeah. I'm looking at the actual equipment for 26. >> Which one? >> So, so you got 2.5 for two fire trucks, and I'm assuming they're going to match the ones in station one going over to station two. >> The rescues. >> Uh, nope. Two fire trucks. Uh one, two, fifth line down. >> There you go. >> Oh yeah. 2.542. >> Those have already been ordered >> and them are going to match what we have in station one for station two is >> more or less. >> Joe, >> he's nodding. >> Is that correct? >> He's nodding yes over there. Okay. And then fire admin two for 26. Imaging cameras. There was some other trucks in here somewhere. Where were they? Um, >> you got a couple administrative vehicles. >> Two EMS rescue trucks for 900,000 in 27. So, what exactly is that? Although we got till 27 to dig into that deeper. >> Yeah, we're not running EMS other than rescue. >> Right. >> Thank you. I hope you learned something. >> I mean, we're not getting into the ambulance service, are we? >> No, sir. We're not getting into the ambulance service. >> Standard rescue. Is this so they they don't have to take out a rig to answer a medical call? >> A a heavy rescue is more of a a equipment kind of however >> that that's a 2027 item. >> Let's stay on and >> and frankly we've got a lot of fire department discussion before that even comes up. So let's focus on 2026, please. >> All right. >> So yeah, good job. >> Thanks, Joel. >> Love the answer. >> No concerns there. I I don't I mean in the 26 uh 26 well you fire trucks are not cheap. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Plus Mr. Delaney you know that we do need we are growing and eventually the sooner the better that station needs to be up and running. >> I I don't disagree with that. I mean that's again >> but what are we going to get it up and running with with nothing? I mean it needs staff. It needs trucks. the needs. >> I'm not pushing back on that. >> Okay. >> We're just trying to as >> Can we get another year out of the Zambon? >> Yeah. We're just basically discussing what we keep this going forward. Right. >> Again, the question was this comes up for a vote and we >> No. >> Right. No, I know cuz our staff is watching and our staff >> seriously when it comes down to it, they >> they must think that we're like destroying everything they do cuz this is a lot of work. And >> we understand that. We understand the work was put into it. We're not disputing the work that went into it. I'm not saying staff didn't do a great job. >> Right. But when it comes to vote, then we don't vote. >> That's why we're doing this discussion. I hope so. Okay. >> Why we're just That's why Commissioner White said this White said, "Let's discuss it." Now, >> I think a different way of looking at this is it's it's really easy to ask for something if somebody else is paying for it. >> No, I totally understand. But yet, it's a plan. If we don't have that money, it will not get done. They've said it. I've seen their faces turn all different colors and it's like why are we not getting it? What's so hard about it? >> I just want to make sure we're on the same page and that's why we're doing this all on the same page. So when it comes up for vote >> I really hope so. >> On the same thought, I mean we've got >> the residents that we are elected by to represent their interest and they they they want us to try to be as efficient, economically good stewards of their money. >> Exactly. and they don't want to see us every year coming back and saying, you know, no matter what, we just can't seem to get enough out of you. Okay. Um, >> well, I will say this. Yesterday, I have heard nothing but compliments. Everyone's like, "You guys are doing a great job. We're satisfied with our services. We love our parks." I had someone tell me that they chose our city because of our parks. They could have chose any other city. She goes, "No, we moved here because of that." Um, I mean, I think yes, I do agree. We need to be um good stewards of the taxpayers's money and I feel like we are doing that. And I mean if we want to go down project by project like is there anything that you would eliminate? >> One of the lowest tax communities in the state of Minnesota. >> We're not disputing that. again >> and and and there's a reason for that >> and frankly it's because this staff understands that it's important to this council >> and you know but as one of my department head notes all the time if we start racing to the bot bottom and continue to buy cheaply as opposed to things of value uh you know it's it we end up spending more at the end And my perfect example of that are the cheap >> trash cans. >> Trash cans that we decided to get many years ago and saved a couple cents on and they ultimately cracked in the winter and the wheels fell off and we ended up spending a hell of a lot more for them at the end of the day. And that was just dumb, dumb, dumb. >> That were the residential trash carts, >> right? >> Yeah, it was. >> And we charged the residents for them carts. >> Mhm. Well, do you think as a resident I wouldn't be pissed off because we bought crappy carts? >> Tell you what, the cart the cart deal was a racket from the trash companies, but the the cart purchase was >> I'll tell you when mine cracked, I was pretty ticked about it. What's next? >> So, the last uh one I would uh bring up would be actually a it's pushed out to 2027 and it's LED upgrades where do we do any ROI on that and does that make sense on moving it up so that we can save more money over time and that's on the uh B uh building is fund 48 page 481 there's a LED upgrade for 500 Gorman and the police department LED upgrade I mean if we can save money sooner Maybe that's something we push up. >> Well, and that goes right into are you going to be adding on a second story building behind the existing police department building? >> Um, >> still going to need lights in the existing. >> So, you're going to have to figure >> Yeah. And that's come up a couple times just so all of you understand. We ultimately will be looking at two uh expansions and and one's the police department, the other one is the public works department where um you know I've talked with both of the department heads and we understand that probably in the next year or year and a half or or two we're going to have to have a study to figure out just what needs to be done. But both of those uh you know the PD is chocked full uh and then you know obviously public works with uh the number of vehicles and stuff that we have now as well uh needs expansion as well. So those are coming in but you know obviously we got to have a study to figure out just what's needed. >> Exactly. >> Uh and I don't know Nate did we put study dollars in >> I think it is program >> for which for public works >> for police department. >> Police department. Yes >> for police department. And then Bill and I talked about doing it for public works uh in 27. >> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. >> And I know there's a bay in there that when we designed that building can put a cassette in for another hoist, we made sure that we didn't put nothing in the ground underneath that spot. So, we were thinking ahead. Don't know if it's enough. I mean, it's for the mechanical side. It's it's there, but I don't know about the storage side. >> So, I think we've hit everything. I don't I don't think it's a lot to ask to really ask yourself and go through and see are we doing the best that we can do. >> Exactly. >> Um it's not a bad thing to be asking all staff members probably from the bottom up. Usually the the frontline folks usually know where the savings are. >> Um and we should be asking them questions on that. uh we shouldn't be but that should be rising up within the organization >> and and I don't want to let staff think that I was trying to uh start cutting stuff here. I wanted to have a conversation. >> Exactly. >> So go ahead. >> That's all I had. But um with that um we don't have any formal action here. So um I does everybody have all their concerns out on the >> I reviewed it. I looked it over at all the 2026 projects and I did with a critical eye said, "Okay, is this something that needs to be done like or is this something that can be pushed off or is this something that could be modified in some way for some cost savings?" And I could not come up with um I could I personally could not come up with anything. If anyone saw anything different, please let me know. I would love to hear it. But um >> I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback it. >> I I reviewed it and I was fine with it. Just want to say we we appreciate the work staff does. This is not reflection on the work staff does. This is basically discussion amongst ourselves. I'm glad you brought it up because again that vote comes up and then question is why did you vote no? And this was what this was for to get this discussion on the table and we got all my questions answered. I think anybody not get their questions answered up here. We're good. >> Okay. All right. So we're we're good. Thank you for taking the time to go through this. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. So the next is 12B dog boarding daycare in residential zones. >> Thanks. Oops, wrong one. Sorry. Mayor Council, so thought we'd have a discussion since you've all been bombarded by people. Um, and so just so you know, the complaints get generated by citizens. They go to the police department and then the someone from the police department investigates it. But it's regulated by So right now pet daycare and boarding is currently allowed as a conditional use in zoning districts B1 I1 and I2. So currently pet grooming is allowed as a home occupation. Other pet related services are not allowed. We have two licensed facilities with cups. That's uh doggydes and fur childs. So issues and concerns that we hear from residents about people that are doing this is dogs barking and fighting in the backyards. Uh waste, not waster, waste in the yards and just general noise generated. I remember finally when we did dogged and the drug and alcohol treatment center right next door and we had the neighborhood meeting and there were about a hundred people at that meeting. Nobody asked about the drug and alcohol place. Everyone was concerned about the noise that would come from doggydos and was the building insulated and did they have people working. >> So it's it's a hot button. Um so currently we have a large number of people in Shakipi on rovering. Rover. That's the app most people use for their dog services, which provides cat sitting, dog walking, pet sitting, drop in, which means they're only there for a few hours, dog boarding, and doggy daycare. And to give you an idea of how busy how big this app is, there's over a thousand people in Shakip providing one of these services. >> Wow. >> So, it's it's a big business. Um, so big businesses in residential neighborhoods generate discussion and complaints. So one or two dogs we never really get complaints from. So there's a lot of people I board one of my dogs through Rover because he doesn't go to regular dog places. And typically it's someone who had a dog and it passed away or a family that had a dog and passed away or it's someone who doesn't want the full-time responsibility of a dog but likes around so that they choose when and if they get a dog they charge by the hour or they charge by the day. Um we have some larger providers right now. So some of the things for discussion are do you have them apply for conditional use a home occupation? Do we not allow them in residential areas? I mean, those are some of the issues that you all really need to give staff some direction on. >> Questions of staff? >> I think it's how many dogs? I mean, >> so, so right now we have people that have as many as a dozen dogs in their backyard and PD's gotten tons of complaints. They go out and it takes a lot of work. I mean, a place like Doggy, I think, has 10 to 15 staff working there. I mean, dogs get into fights. I've had my dogs there that have gotten into fights. I mean, it's just a nature of the beast. >> So, I know in daycare centers, they have a certain amount of kids per attendant. I I'm using the wrong terminology, but >> um in this case, it may be similar that you have to have someone on staff for a certain amount of dogs or and and they can't exceed so many. Uh >> so right now the state licenses both fur childs and doggy do. So they have a separate state license. They're inspected by the state and then they have a conditional use permit that we issue that has additional conditions on it. >> They maximum >> they're they're in a specified zoning. >> Yes. They're in B1, I1, I2. And we had one in across from Canterbury in the I1 district that only lasted 6 months and they went out of business. I mean, people think it's an easy business to be in, but it requires a a lot of work and a lot of staffing and a lot of overhead. If you remember, Dog80s, I think, spent 2.2 million on their building and they have 15 16 staff full-time. >> Yeah. >> And obviously, the real issue is dogs especially are loud and you have a bunch of them in a residential neighborhood. I mean, that's that's it. I mean, that's that's where the concern comes from. So, so when mayor and council, when we have dog grooming, so that is a allowed home occupation, what we do is the person applies, we send notices out to the neighbors, and if we don't get any complaints from the neighbors, we issue the license because they do generate traffic. I mean, um, we had a business through PD that we found out was running a commercial kitchen out of their house cuz the neighbors complained there was a line of cars at this house. Turns out they had a full website and they were basically selling food to go out of their house. So people are very creative, but it has impacts on their neighbors. >> So when I read this and and think thinking about this, here's kind of where my thoughts are. There's a big difference between having 12 dogs. Well, let me back up. Let's start by saying the person is going out of town for a couple days and they want somebody to babysit their animal for them. Somebody that they know, friend, relative, whatever. Not too uncommon, right? Pretty standard actually. I certainly don't want to regulate that piece of it. >> I think that's it would I would have a very hard time regulating that piece when I can watch my neighbor my sister's kids for a week when they're out of the country and there's nothing wrong with that. >> No. I think mayor >> it's akin to hiring a babysitter >> right >> this is the Mr. and I talked about there's a difference between hiring a babysitter and running a daycare >> Yep. And and I think when you get past a certain amount that I think it becomes a glorified commercial business and and you know if you're going to have 10 12 dogs at a time you you're a glorified business and you should it would be in your very best interest to be insured for that business in case something happens to one of them furry friends of somebody that you're caring for. >> Sure. homeowners. >> Um, but if it's, you know, a couple, I don't know that I have a concern about that because we have a lot of owner occupied homes that have two or three dogs of their very own. So, that's my thought process. I don't know really where I'm at yet, but that's kind of what I wanted to throw out to council on how I'm thinking about this. Well, one thing too we have to remember is let's not try to punish the good providers that are responsible that have the insurance that have the legit business that are uh responsible in their handling their their um their um um what do you call the the responsible stewards of their neighborhood that that they take their neighbors into consideration. I I think we should focus our attention on the bad actors that um do bring you know that aren't insured that have a liability that don't that do let the dogs just do whatever I there's a fine line and I think um that's where we need to kind of focus on is let's let's not punish the good and let's focus on the ones that are generating the complaints. So, one of the questions I pondered in my head for staff is, so you have this this household that has the onesie, twoozies, maybe occasional threes that they're dealing with, um, not such an issue, but if you have one that has, you know, six, seven, eight on a regular basis. if they have a home occupation license to do that. If there's a whole bunch of complaints and problems in that neighborhood, does the home occupation license process have the teeth of a conditional use permit? >> Yes, we would cancel their home occupation license. >> Okay. Um and that might be an avenue for the ones that are doing it commercially on a larger scale. um you know, but then again, if if you have the large large scale doggy doo fur babies use or whatever it's called, um these folks made the investment to run a legitimate business in a proper zoning with all the specialty stuff to >> to do and and as a reminder to everyone, we only do code enforcement based upon complaints. um we don't very rarely are we actively out looking for something. Uh it's all based upon complaints and so that's why this was brought up is because residents are complaining about these in their in their residential neighborhoods. >> Yeah. >> Right. And >> I mean would you like this next door to you if you had like 10 dogs in the backyard? I mean no it would drive me crazy. >> It would drive me crazy too. I get it. But the question is it's happening currently happening all over Shakipi and >> well I read a lot of the emails right that that were coming through and the thing is yeah but I feel like we're just punishing certain ones the ones that we get the complaints from but like like let's say they're doing it during the work hours and people are working or whatever and they don't hear all these other issues going on in ex neighborhood but you know I I'm just saying are we cherrypicking the ones who are punishing We're dealing with the complaints we receive. That's that's that's how we >> complaint, you know. >> And I think I think part of part of what you said was we have them happening all over Shockby. But realistically, I think what we have a lot happening in Shockby is these onesies and twoosies that aren't really a problem. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we're trying to, at least to me, I'm trying to figure out >> because one of the letters that we did get was from one of the ladies who um she just had two dogs, I think, that she was walking and she got the letter from us that she couldn't do that. So, that that was one of the ones we got I think yesterday or today. >> But that was a onesie twoosie. So, we're still going at them. So, that's where I'm >> But it's based upon a complaint. So, if we have a complaint, we have a responsibility. And if people are operating out of the bounds of what's allowed, then then we're going to say you can't do that. We're here to say, do we need to change this? What do you want us to do? >> And it it goes back to mayor and council that before my time, but the whole chicken thing and you all decided five chickens was fine. We just went through cleaning up that ordinance. Right now, you as a person theoretically could have 20 dogs at your house. We don't have any limit, right? I mean, most cities don't have a limit, but there's a reasonleness as the mayor said. So, if you have one or two dogs through Rover or whatever, we could incorporate that into language. And if you're going to go over, you have to go through a process >> or whatever number we come up with. Let's hear from this side. >> So, this if we put a number on this, this is just business. This is not my neighbor has adopted three or four dogs and they're taking care of them. There's no issue. This is basically somebody's running a business out of homeless. and clarify. We're not going after dog lovers or this is strictly business. >> So if you if you had three dogs at your house that were your dogs or maybe you have two and you're taking care of one for a relative that's out of town for a week or something, not an issue. >> But to go back, so here's what's on Rover. There are over a thousand people in the city of Shakabe doing one of these services. So, they're either dog walking, cats sitting, pet sitting, daycare, or boarding. >> Right. Here's my thoughts. Um, if it's in a residential area and it's a home occupation, uh, I'd say a maximum four dogs without a cup. You know, if they want to get more, they maybe the house can handle it and maybe there's no neighbors, so maybe they get a condition. >> I I'm not sure. Can you get a conditional use permit in a residential? >> We might be able to add that. >> Sure. We could ch it's up to council. You set the rules. I mean, we have all sorts of different rules and regulations. The city attorney and I were talking about what what's an accessory use in, you know, a residential neighborhood. So, >> it's four dogs, too many. >> Mayor, I did do um some research earlier today and for the city of Eden Prairie, um it says here that households with three or more dogs are required to have a private kennel license. And so I reached out to the city of Ven Prairie and they gave me their city code of what that means. Um and essentially it's what we've been talking about is they register as a business um and follow the uh correct protocols of insurance uh registering with the city um you know in that aspect of it. So, if that's something that we want to look at um doing as well, if there's a certain amount of dogs that they um have, again, I I don't want to punish the good and I think we um um should figure something out to let people live and earn a living. >> Well, what do you what are you thinking? >> Well, well, first so for first, do we um we do have um in the audience someone that does own one of those businesses. if you'd like to ask her a few questions of what she does. She's out here. I'm sure she'll answer your questions. But >> I was wondering your thoughts. >> My thoughts, um, they should be insured commercially. They should be a registered business with the state. Um, you know, if if they're using Rover to just bring it to kind of, how do you want to say it? um as like a to kind of sidestep that and like you know what about those illegal daycarees that bring in more kids than they're supposed to, right? Um you know what's what's what's stopping them versus you know let's say a does a complaint does come through and they are not legitimate. Yes. Then we have the ability to do something about it. But if they if you know if these are good um law-abiding businesses that care about their b their neighborhoods, I mean why are we bothering them, you know, if we never even knew they were there? I mean, for example, the one business was in she's been in business since 2022, >> and there has not been one complaint from that. And then, but in my opinion, I would think that if there was a complaint from the neighbors from that point, it would have came when within the first year of that business starting that the neighbors would have been saying like, "Hey, wait a second. There's a bunch of dogs." >> How many dogs does that person have? >> I think the max they had was 15, Lisa. Was it 15 dogs you've had at one point? >> Uh, special occasions. >> Special occasions. You said like like spring break or when people like a heavy vacation period is that's your cap. But you >> know that >> come on up to the table please. >> And just a reminder if we are actively going and discussing this with someone doing this >> it's not a public >> it's because there was a complaint. Yeah. >> So again, that's how this comes up is because of a complaintbased code enforcement operation. This is what we do. >> I made the complaint. >> Name and address, please. >> Hi, my name is Lisa Jansen. I own Minnesota for baby pet care and shockp 1683 Parkway Avenue. >> Okay. And what is the zoning classification of that? >> Single family residential. >> Okay. And how many dogs do you normally have on an average? I own four dogs. >> Okay. And how many do you board or room or whatever you do? >> We did previously. We received notification in February that we were non-compliant that you were not allowed to do inhome daycare or boarding. We stopped offering the services as a result. We found that even though the city was aware of dozens of other individuals that were operating, couple of months went by, other people were not notified. Then around April, Mayish time frame, a handful of people were notified, but there's still dozens and dozens of dogs. >> Pardon pardon my interruption, but ask your question one more time. How many dogs do you normally have at your house, though besides your four? >> Can you pull the mic up, please? Thank you. >> It's heavy and it feels like it doesn't move, but you can slide it across that table. >> Okay. Thank you. Is that better? >> Just Just slide her back. >> Is that No, no, >> I can scoot forward a little bit. Is that better? Yes. >> So, typically a handful of dogs. >> A handful. >> What's a handful? >> Five. >> So, if we have more boarding dogs at our own location, that means I'm doing less dog grouping. So, we run our location very, very differently than most other people do. We don't use kennels. Everyone is 100% supervised. It's free roam. So, even if there's a dog in their feelings, needing alone time, they're a little cranky, whatever it is, we can separate every dog that we have, they can have their own private space while having free roam, >> free roam in the yard, >> inside and outside. >> Okay. So, how do we keep the noise down from harming the atmosphere of your neighbors? >> Great question. Depends on the dogs that are there. We have very strict rules in our house. I do this for my dogs. I do this for any guest dogs that are at the house. If a dog goes outside, if they bark, we let them know no bark. Give them a distraction, a toy, you know, we have pup pools, splash pads, you name it. If they can't choose to stop barking, then we go inside. That means we're not ready to be outside. We're not cooperating how we need to. They're going to go inside for playtime, enrichment, a nap, whatever it is they need to do. We'll try again later. And we do this on repeat. Typically, the dogs have so much of a fear of missing out that it's it's kind of like the toddler that you always think there's a party or something exciting going on. You might not want to take your nap in time. Now, you missed it. You're going to get tired, cranky, might act out a little bit. Dogs are very, very much alike. >> And how many dogs do you on average have on your property? >> Um, I would say typically there's two or three for boarding on a normal schedule, >> plus your three. So, that's six, right? I'm sorry. >> Plus your three that you own. >> I have four. >> Four. So that's seven. >> So, you know, five, six dogs. It's not unusual. >> Um to prevent those noise issues, we have our rules in place. If we need to do rotations, we do rotations. That doesn't mean all of the dogs are outside together. Some dogs can be. We pick and choose based on who is there with us. That is also how we do our booking. that we match the dogs together based on temperament, size, the different needs that they have. And we know that if every dog needs to be separate, do we have space? If a dog is sick, do we have space? If someone's being noisy, do we have space? >> Does your clients sign a waiver of no liability if something should happen to their animals or do you have insurance? >> Both. >> Okay. >> How much staff do you have? myself and my spouse do this. We have indooroutdoor cameras, a security system. Everybody is always monitored. >> Even if I'm just going to the restroom. >> Okay. >> Ask how close your neighbors are or how big a yard is. >> I'm sorry. I don't know the dimensions by any means. Standard yards. >> What was the address? >> I didn't go visit. I went and visited. >> What was the address again? 1683 Parkway Avenue. >> I've toured our home, too, and there's no sign. I >> I told her, I said, "I would not know you had dogs if you did not have dog stuff all over. It was quiet. There was no >> um the yard was clean. Like, you just would never know." >> Majority of the dogs that come to us, they're regulars. If they're not with mom and dad, we're their second home. We have a lot of dogs that come and see us that are blind, deaf, have seizures, Cushings, diabetes, special needs, um severe anxiety, trauma from being a rescue, whoever, you know, those different situations. We cater to what they are looking for. And a typical boarding kennel is not an environment that either one is healthy for them. Sometimes it's seizure inducing, stress inducing. Um, some pups have been kicked out of daycare and boarding because they're too high anxious. They're not able to be around that quantity of dogs. >> Majority of these dogs that come see us, they're best friends. They know each other because they're coming to us for daycare, for boarding, and for grooming. So, they're with mom and dad, they have their vet, and they have us. Um, they know where their spot is in the house, their favorite spot to rest, their favorite spot to sleep. They know, you know, how we eat, our routine. We have surround sound in our house. If I have somebody doing a pickup or drop off, we turn the surround sound on. The pups go in their quiet spots. They know it's nap time. It's quiet time. We're all just going to relax and hang out. There's no barking. It's calm. >> When it's done, the pups get to come back out. We do our rotations or their spaces where they are. There's always something going on. There's always structure to it. >> All right. Anybody else have any questions for her? >> Yeah, just a quick question. So, if a license is required, would that change anything you do in your current operation? >> Probably not. I wouldn't expect. >> I would think not. Um, we have crazy stringent cleaning, you know, processes, sanitation, safety, noise, um, activities for the dogs, quarantine if someone is sick. We have vet staff that we can reach out to. We've got backup plans for our backup plans. Um, if you put a limit or quantity, yes, that could impact us. Um, but we also limit ourselves. If I have two dogs that I know are high maintenance or they're not going to get along with other dogs or I don't have enough space, time, energy, whatever it is, I may book those two dogs and I decline every other request that comes through. Same thing. If I have four dogs or six dogs and they're best friends and little shius and they get along and they're not noise issues and we have the availability, they may come. Those six dogs could be easier than one tough dog. >> What's your maximum capacity? >> I I don't go over the 15. That was a one time. We won't do it. It's, you know, can we do it? Yes. I don't want to do it. >> Well, you won't go over 15 again. So, what what is your self-determined maximum capacity today? >> Tough question because it's based on who's booking. Um, I would say typically six dogs. >> There's two people in the household. >> The normal. Yep. >> And there's only so much supervision two people can do. >> Yep. >> Correct. >> So, you don't like to see yourself over six at any one time? We do, but we also have everything in place. I have indoor cameras that can go in every single room with motion detection. >> Well, I was asking what your maximum capacity, your your self-imposed cap is. >> 10. >> I've done the 15 in case of emergency. That is the max that we have booked. We don't like to do that much. And it was again, we can do it. We We're choosing not to. That would be our max. >> You own four, so it would be two more. Right. And I own four. So, right. >> So, as a total amount including my four has been 15. >> Okay. Would that also be for your max capacity? >> Yes, we include our four because they're on site with us. >> Okay. >> So, we always take into consideration them, their behaviors, their needs with also who is going to be on the property. >> What's the lot size of this? Do you know you guys drove by? Is it? Um it's >> it's a very it's a decently sized backyard fenced in. Yeah. >> Old shock piece 62 by 100. >> It's over by the It's over by Jim's house >> actually. My neighborhood. Yeah. >> Um Sar Sar >> over that section there. >> All right. Let's get down. >> All right. Thank you. Appreciate you. >> Thank you. >> Well, I it sounded to me, you know, I I'd said threw out four dogs for discussion. Um, and it makes more sense maybe by who's attending, too. So, if you have an attendant, maybe it's three dogs per attendant or something like that. >> I I don't I can't see uh a 15 dog in a >> res that is that is a lot. My I guess in my mind I talking doing the home occupation, right? Doing that. Is it possible? I I don't know how much work also we'd put in our staff. I'm being honest. I I'm This is just spitting it out there. Um per application. Would that make sense or is that totally a mess? >> Well, I I think if if you're doing a onesie twoosy here or there, >> well, that would be >> I I think there should be no no problem with that. You don't need to go to, you know, if you're watching somebody's two corgis or something while they're on a vacation, you shouldn't need any government. >> But if you're taking more than three, >> right? Um, I don't know what that magic number is of when you want to trigger something different than no oversight whatsoever. Uh, or what the, you know, I'm I'm looking at tiered. If you're doing a doggy dues thing, you should probably be with a conditional use permit in a zoning that accepts that, >> right? If you're a tiered down, you should probably be be in between this number and this number a home occupation so that if there are massive complaints and concerns, you can lose that. >> Let's just limit the discussion to residential. >> Yeah, >> right now. Let's do that right now. How's that? >> That's >> Yeah, because it is a lot of things that we're talking about. >> Let's just just home occupation residential. Isn't that what we're looking for? Residential use here. >> Well, right. But if we set these numbers and somebody's over that number, they should be doing this over here. >> Sure. right? >> Or have more hands-on staff. I mean, think about it as like a the one thing one thought I had about it earlier today. I was like, "How is it any different than um uh sending my kid to daycare?" So, my day my daughter's daycare provider, she only she only accepts four children. She goes, "I cap myself at four. I could go up to I think she can go up to eight kids, but she chooses to keep it lower." And then also too with kids with licensing like they can only have so many kids. Maybe it's based off of weight, the size of the dog. Maybe they can only have so many big dogs, so they can have more small dogs if they want. Like, you know, think about it that way where um you know, just kind of like with with uh kid daycare, it's like they can only have two babies, they can only have so many toddlers um but they can have more older kids, you know. >> Let me let me try to limit. >> Let me try this. How many dogs can a person take in and take care of, whether it's grooming or babysitting it or whatever, with no government oversight, throw out a number. How many How many would you like to see? >> Four a person. I don't have a dog, so I really don't know. But I would Four is my mind. Four. Four per person. >> Yeah. Four per person. Eight total. Like if there's two people. >> Yeah. That's the problem, though. I Then you're at eight dogs. So if But for two people, then I would say let's go down to three and say maximum of six cuz eight dogs. >> If there was eight dogs in in my neighbor's yard, big dogs, >> I would be going, "Wow, that's a lot of dogs in one place." >> And if they were big, loud, and uh >> you know, yeah, if they were loud, I mean, yeah, that would really be a problem, especially if you got no way of doing anything about it short of calling the cops, having them come over, writing them a ticket, and constantly doing that. At this point, we've we're paying, you know, an officer to contract >> four or per home, unless maximum if it's just un but if it's two people or more more attendance, I guess I would say maximum of six because that that seems like a lot too. Three go. >> So maybe it is three and then two people. So you want a capital per person. You don't have a limit. >> There is no limit. There is no limit on >> there's no limit on how many somebody owns themselves, >> right? Cuz there is no Yeah. >> Yeah. That makes it harder. So I would say six and just leave it at that. >> I mean there are cities around us that do limit like Savage a limit of three dogs. Bloomington a limit of four animals period. Cat, dog, ferret. Um there is a city that requires you to have an insurance up to a certain amount if you're going to have dogs. So there I mean this is not uncommon to happen around us, but it's just what do we what are we going to do? You know, there's so many different variables. >> We're kind of discussing it now. We just hammered it out, but uh we're not going to get to anything today. Um >> can you be very brief? >> Okay. And then chief, you're next. I want to get your input on this >> because we got a lot of agenda items still left to talk about. >> Look at this. So currently the zoning is saying it is not in compliance. You are not able to do this. We know just on the one app that he was saying there's over a thousand people just on Rover. There's dozens of apps >> all of those but you're not adding those numbers in. >> This is already happening and it's not being enforced fully effectively fairly >> right now. Shakp you just said there's no limit on the dogs that you can own. Right. >> There's also no limit on the amount of foster dogs that someone can have on their property. >> Well, that's what we're talking about. >> Yeah, that's exactly what we're talking about. >> There's no limit on the number of I can have friends dogs, family dogs, neighbor dogs. The problem that it was explained to me by the city is that the issue is compensation. If I do it for free, I can have as many dogs there as I want to have. Not if you have complaints an issue. >> Right. Right. as soon as any form of money compensation, that's where the city has the problem with it and that this is a non-compliance. >> Well, I'm going to disagree with you because if if I had a dog and my dog, let's say I had two dogs, I own these dogs. They're outside. They're terrorizing my neighbors. My neighbors are calling the police. The police are going to come over to my house and they're going to say, "The city has a noise ordinance. You're in non-compliance with the noise ordinance. You're either going to comply. Let this be a warning. if I come back, I'm going to write you a ticket. You're going to pay for it. Okay? And if it happens over and over again, uh, then it gets escalated. What we're trying to do is we're trying to put in some framework for people that are doing this so they know what the expectation is and if they don't meet that expectation, what the consequences could be. >> So right now there are many, many, many people doing this that are not causing any issues. It's been happening for years. >> Kudos to them. My suggest and I appreciate that. We try to go by that religiously straight. >> We need to get to >> my request is you approve inhome boarding and daycare in residential areas. Point blank. Regardless if the neighbor is having a party or there's a dog barking or there is a whatever issue disturbance >> you say no no no cap on any numbers. >> If there's an issue then you address it with that person with that individual. let them know that you know what you've had this complaint you didn't change it you had this complaint you didn't change it now you are no longer able to do such activities from this location >> right and in order to do that we have to have a policy in place okay >> and that's what we're working on >> of the situation or complaint it's the same process you do the e portal complaint you call the police and make a disturbance complaint >> yep thank you >> got it thank you thank you >> m council It probably won't surprise you. You're not the first council that's ever dealt with this issue. Okay. The council member Lair's comment, I'm looking at another one. I think what you're talking about here a little bit is um is is there a limit and the ordinance that I'm looking at says you can't keep more than this one says four. Keep means own yourself. I live in my house, but you want to put a limit on my ability to keep dogs or animals. You got that? Now you say, "But wait a minute, people are now running a business out of their home, whether it's grooming, whether it's um you know, >> boarding." And you I think what you're contemplating is that's what we want to regulate whether it's through a home occupation permit which you already allow. Uh this particular one ordinance says if you want more you have to get a they call it a kennel license. Okay. That so what I'm hearing you trying to wrestle with here is how do you not how you reg regulate how many dogs I have in my house although you might want to regulate that. You're saying when somebody is running a business out of their house, we're thinking about requiring a home occupation permit, a license. We can call it whatever you want to call it. So you can regulate these so that the ones that don't do such a good job, you have a license you can revoke and say you cannot do this anymore. You can't operate this home occupation anymore. >> Yes. >> So I think you want to focus on two different things here. Good point. and and and and you know and and you don't need to set a number here today, okay? But you might want to give staff some direction of >> we we want to start regulating the a business operating out of house that's either grooming or boarding or walking, whatever it is, animals. I think that's what staff's looking for. >> Can we agree that we don't want to mess with people's pets? Right. >> Correct. >> Right. How many? >> Okay. So, let's just talk about the boarding and home occupation. >> Perfect. Do we know if we would be able to work with Rover to say like, "Hey, you're within this zip code 55379. The your city, your zip code requires you to do XYZ in order for you to be listed on our site." Because I think right now it's not I I it's not fair for one business to not allow it to be operating when someone can go on Rover today and book someone that is operating. So, it's either we allow it to happen until we figure it out or we put a moratorum in all of it. and 555 55 55379 is shut down on Rover because we can't allow one we can't allow others to do it while we don't allow some just because we know they're doing it >> once the ordinance is in place then and and the time frame has now it's effective then it's effective and then then we can start dealing with those on an individual basis saying hey we have this in place you're not complying but until we that point you know I don't think Rover is going to we can ask, but I don't think Rover is going to >> Well, they'll just out like that. >> And there's so many other sites that you can't hit them all, >> right? >> So then I Okay, so this is just my opinion. I think that until we figure something out, um, we should just let it be as it is because it's not fair for someone to be on one website and allow them to do it and we just because we are aware of someone else, they're not allowed to do it and we affect their livelihood. >> A lot of websites that let Shaka pee citizens do a lot of things that may not be legal. Uh but that's not we can't control what's on the internet, but we can control what we can manage as our residents and our licenses. You know, if someone's going to have dogs without the license, that's >> let me do >> Let me ask Mr. Thompson, Mr. Let me ask you a question. If if my neighbor had uh six dogs that they were taking care of, boarding, whatever, um and the dogs were just a complete menace, how what tools does the city have to stop that from bleeding into a neighbor's yard? >> Okay. >> Without doing anything tonight, without doing this? >> Oh, yeah. Right now, you have no licensing. You have no regulatory over that. Um, it it'd be no different if your own personal dog stayed out all afternoon and barked and bothered the neighbor. Okay? There might be some, I don't know, police regulations or something that they're violating, but they're not violating a use regul. They're not violating the use of their property. So, >> I don't know if there's a noise complaint we would have probably over a nuisance. >> That's why we're here tonight, mayor council, is they're getting noise complaints. They go to the police department and then they come to us, >> right? But if you would if you chose to regulate them, then you'd have the license ability. And if you have two operations, you know, the same same number of dogs, one's doing everything fine, complying with their license, and one's not, you have the license ability to revoke the license. And >> could that stop them? No. But then you can enforce your city code against them that says you're doing this without a license. Right now, they don't need a license. Could Could we draft it in a manner that said after three verified complaints, you are now required to do this? >> My my recommendation would be to impose the licensing requirement and then say if you get three verified complaints, you lose your license. I think that's a probably a better way to get at it. >> Mayor, mayor and council, we do that with the rental ordinance. So >> we have that scale that too many police calls or whatever you kind of go on probation. If it continues, you lose your rental license and you're out of business >> or tobacco. >> Okay. So councelor Laro doesn't want to take any action yet because he doesn't want to p punish the good. What's your position? What's your thoughts? >> To do the home occupancy >> on a certain number more or less or even if you're going to take care of your neighbor's dog for a day? >> No. for >> it's a business. >> Yeah, it's a business. >> Here's how I would I'm sorry. >> You're taking care of your neighbor's dog for a day. You're not getting paid for that presumably, right? You're talking about people that are operating a business for compensation. And we can define that for you if you don't need to decide a number now. I think you just need to decide whether you want to have staff come back to you with some sort of regulation that we don't have now when people are using their residents for dog related uses whether it's grooming or daycare >> and and for compensation >> and and we'll draft that and we'll bring it back to you. We just don't know what we just don't know what you want us to do. No, I'd support lensure in residential areas of >> business. >> Dog business or any uh pet businesses of that sort. >> Okay. Jim, >> same thing. If you're running a business, I think it should be licensed. >> Okay. >> Just watching mom and pop or somebody else's dog get your house. That's your >> fees and fines we can deal with later. Yeah. >> Mr. Lara, >> I apologize. Let me rec let me um reiterate. I do agree with what everyone was saying. I'm just saying until we get something officially on the books, we should allow them to continue as business as usual because right now they're shut some of them are shut down. >> I'm agreeing with that we should have a home occupancy license. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just saying until we have something officially on the books just >> I'm not sure how we shut them down without anything on the books already. But whatever >> apparently that's >> well and and those that are that are running great operations, it's really not not an issue. they can continue and once we come up with something and adopt it um they will be able to just slide right into that role and and it shouldn't really affect them at all. >> Yep. I agree. >> You know. >> Yep. >> It's a matter of formalities at that point. >> We want to pick a number for >> big dogs. >> He says no. >> I I think >> let staff do the due diligence. Come back with you a recommendation. >> Okay. Staff have enough direction? >> We're good. >> Yes, sir. >> Very good. If not, we've got a tape possibly you can watch. Okay. >> All right. Next one. >> Let's uh let's take a short break. >> I'll make a motion. Take a um >> what? Recess. >> Quick. Do we want to hear from the Chief Tate on this? I think I thought that was >> I think he's good. He'll >> He'll be able to work with us. >> Work with staff. Okay. >> Going to guess. >> What do you want? Five or 10 minutes? >> Not much. 10-minute recess. >> Yeah. Second. >> All right. Motion for a 10-minute recess by councelor Lara, seconded by councelor Contrarus. Any discussion on the motion? >> All in favor say I. Opposed. We're in recess. Call the city council back to order. coming out of uh recess. We are at 10 D. Nope. Short 10 C. >> 12C. >> 12C. >> Short-term rental issues and regulations. >> Mayor and council. So short-term lodging rentals, a short-term lodging rental is defined as an owner, this is in our current code, >> is defined as an owner occupied rental dwelling whether rented partially or entirely for a term of less than 30 days at a time and is rented for no more than a total of 60 days in a calendar year. So that's the current language we have in our code. It's an accessory use in all of the residential districts. >> So >> Oops. >> Oh, go ahead. Okay. So, short-term rental license must be an owner occupied home. You can rent for less than 30 days and no more than 60 days per calendar year. And we're proposing, this is what other cities have, and this is why we're here for discussion, that you get an annual license with an inspection, payment of AC applicable lodging taxes, and complaint properties could have their license revoked, similar to the dogs. And the reason why we're here is we're getting a lot of complaints for people are renting their homes, particularly in the weekends for bachelor parties, bachelorette parties, family reunions. They're 20, 30 people. If they have a pool, it goes until 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning and then they call the police department. They're tying up police complaints. When the amphitheater comes, I can guarantee you this is going to become a major issue because with 40 or 50 dates a year, we're going to get a lot of out of town people that are going to be renting their a lot of local people that are going to be renting their homes. A lot of cities in the Twin Cities um already have this and they're currently they're using their rental license program to enforce it and there's more than a dozen cities right now that are doing this. So, we're this is not a shakabe issue. This is a issue particularly in the Twin Cities when you have Super Bowl, football games, baseball, basketball tournaments. It's become a big issue and it's becoming a big issue here. We get complaints every Monday from issues that have been over the weekend. >> I'm kind of flabbergasted at who would rent a place for 30 days to see a one night concert. Mayor, that's not So, right now, you can't rent >> you can't rent your house for more than 30 days at a time. Otherwise, it's a regular, it's an apartment. >> So, what people do based on our code right now, they're renting it, you can't rent your house for more than 60 days a year. So, they're renting it every weekend. >> So, we can't we don't know whether it's 60 days. It could be a 100 days right now. >> Okay. Are the owners present on site? >> No. >> Okay. Here's the thing. Uh, you know, we are the entertainment capital of Minnesota and with the amphitheater coming, um, we know it's going to be more of a problem. We should be on the leading edge of some of these ordinances and, uh, teaching some of our other smaller communities because we are that entertainment. we we should be uh showing it because that just takes a little bit of a social media post about wild shock be or something that can change the whole uh trajectory of what we hope we're going to have with this entertainment mecca. So, um this could be a real problem if it's your neighbor all of a sudden renting out their house or something, you know, or people calling you with complaints. So, I support uh um >> this. >> I think there's a big difference between you living on your site and renting a room at your site while you're living there as the owner of the property compared to you not living on that property and renting it >> not being there. >> The mayor, that's the issue we're having. >> The short-term stuff is the problem. >> The Airbnbs, the VBOs. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah, I was going to say same It's like the Airbnbs where you're just renting your property out to generate income for short times. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Yeah. I mean, we got to do something um and to regulate because like I said, it um it's not again we're not going to I have used Airbnbs um on vacation before. They're great because it's it provides you space and a little bit more um flexibility than a hotel. But what the city is bringing up is some people, and I've seen this on social media, people use these homes for parties. They use them for um things they wouldn't do in their own home. Um and that disrupts the neighborhood because they they they're not um abiding by the the noise ordinances. There the there's cars, there's um um I mean really well really that's it for me, but um but yeah, I mean there there should be something that we need to cap. >> Okay. >> Regulate just I mean I don't have the specifics. I'd let them figure it out what they would um >> Okay. >> I mean, but >> nothing in front of us. >> Yeah, I same thing. I agree. I think it's something has to be regulated again Airbnb or somebody's written this place out there noise complaints or police respond and we have to have a way to enforce it. So in this case it's not again this is different from somebody renting my room downstairs in my house. And this is basically I'm turning my property into >> uh business money generating activity through Airbnb written it out for two days over the weekend for somebody to come to a concert. >> And we're not saying you can't do it. We're just saying, >> yeah, >> you got to have a license. You got to do it right. And you get, you know, can't have these parties. So, >> yeah. >> The only thing I'm not clear on is if you are an owner occupier of of that property and you homestead it and you are there on site living there yourself. >> The rental rental ordinance allows that right now. We have that provision that if you're there, you can rent a room out in your own house. >> Okay. >> Technically, you're there. You're just leaving for the weekend to rent it out. you might be going to the cabin or something. >> Well, the issue we're having is you own particularly in some of the larger lot neighborhoods that have a lot of amenities or wherever. I don't know where you go, but you're not there for the weekend Friday and Saturday and 30 people are and there's no supervision. And then the neighbors are calling PD tying up time for noise complaints and stuff. And then when they come to us, I go, "You can do that. We we don't have any regulations." >> Do we have any regulations? So, um, for example, some of the more of the Airbnbs that we've done, the person owns the home, but they don't live there and they solely that house is so it's like a business. They solely bought it to rent it out on Airbnb >> for longer periods of time. We don't allow that. >> We don't allow that in Chaki. >> We don't allow that. >> Suppose that would be like a resort town or something. >> Well, that would be like an extended stay. We don't even allow that at hotels >> yet >> until we get a extended stay hotel. Yeah. >> You know. >> All right. So, what's the direction to staff? >> I think you got direction, right? >> Yeah. Establish. >> We'll bring some proposals to you. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Were you okay with that discussion? Do you have any other thoughts? >> That was my only point. >> I don't think you should have to go through all that if you're on site your house and you're renting one room for two, three days. >> I'm registered if I have a rental and I'm registered in the city already, >> right? But you can then leave the property and they're they've got their own area longterm. >> It's long term, right? >> No, it's a lease, but >> Yep. >> Yeah, we're here for the next >> uh >> 12E discussion of future >> 30-day leases. >> Oh, nope. Dang. I've been I'm off here. What happened? >> The drops in the eyes. Did it >> improper park use issues at Quarry Lake and potentially Jackson Commons? that. >> So, mayor, our main concern tonight we want to talk about is Jackson Commons. So, our concern is I'll show you some pictures in a second that it's going to be used by motorized bikes and snowmobiles. We have a million-doll custom playground that potentially could be vandalized and also we've had some potential vandalism vandalism already on the trails. So, working with the IT department, they went out and looked at solutions that other cities are using. So, um, they had found a vendor that's pretty reliable. They were very comfortable with that would integrate with our existing system that would provide highdefinition cameras on site. Um, working with the chief, he suggested a license plate readers for the parking area and that we consider longerterm administrative fines for people that are doing damage. So you can see this is the Jackson Commons bike course. Um, which by the way will be opening on the 28th of this month. But it's pretty sophisticated. This is those the carpet we talked about. I mean there's potential for people to really abuse this and we're really concerned. We've already chased off a bunch of motorized bikes, but in the winter time we're going to end up with snowmobile snowmobiles using this and that's not designed for any of that. So, we want some oversight. And then the playground, which is just around the corner, you've seen in the Twin Cities, we've had some playgrounds burned to the ground, be heavily vandalized. So, we would propose that here. We've worked with it and they have two potential locations for this camera. Um, that basically sends it sends all the video back to the IT department on our network system. So, two cameras out there installed. um their estimate was about 22 $23,000 which will come out of the park development fund. I think it'd be a good opportunity to try it out there and see how effective it is at deterring um vandalism because we have other issues like we said at Cory Park and other parks in the city. This might be a new way of trying to deter and regulate some of the vandalism issues. >> Mr. Parks, >> uh you mentioned it had a license plate reader on some of the the camera technologies now. They have kind of AI that can tell that it's human people out there and they >> So, this has um customizable. It's 100% solar powered. It does have a AI powered smart security technology. So, it can recognize people that there's a person there instead of an animal that could recognize, for instance, a snowmobile in the winter time. Um that can all be programmed into it. And the way reason why it really like this system is it actually is good to 22 below zero up to 140°. So it actually has its own heating system inside to keep the technology secure. So um appreciate Andy and his staff really went out and did a lot of research on this to find a product that would be super dependable and and heavy duty. So these will be mounted about 20 ft in the air >> and license plate readers. >> So um the chief we there are some in the city already. We would put one in the parking lots at the park so that way we could >> car camera issue here you are. >> Okay. >> In addition to >> in addition to these cameras >> since we have them already is there an additional cost or >> so the chief can say what they cost but again that would be paid out of park development. Go ahead, >> Mayor Council. There it would be approximately 3 to 5,000 per camera. Um, for that it'd be integrated in the system that we already have. I do feel it is very, very important. >> Uh, when you talk about license plate readers to reiterate that in the state of Minnesota, we have some of the most strict data privacy laws that there are. If our cops are going to go in and search and mine that data, they need a search warrant. this is, you know, not something we sit there and look at this stuff. If >> if there is if there is a an alert like, let's say it's a stolen vehicle, it's a vehicle. We had an Amber Alert in uh in the Twin Cities, you know, recently. If that hits, boom, we're going to know about it and we're going to start heading heading there. We wouldn't need a warrant for those exiting circumstances, something that's in there. But the park's vandalized. We want to go back and see who left that vehicle. I mean, the technology is is amazing. We have to go get a warrant in order to find that vehicle and then start working backwards from there. >> And be able to use that that information uh in a case. >> But the cameras could really get you that warrant. >> The video the video from the cameras could get you that warrant at that point. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So Jim, >> you have enough cameras to cover the entire area. How many would you need? >> So mayor and council, um you'll see there's two on each. So for Jackson comments, we'd have two of these polemounted assemblies. One would be aimed down at the playground area in that trail and there'd be another one actually at the beginning of the bike course. So if a motorized bike or a snowmobile got on it, it would pick them up on the course and getting on the course. >> Nice. >> Okay. >> Were you thinking of two at Quarry as well? Yeah, we have I think it suggestion is let's try it at Jackson and see how effective it is with the police department's license plate reader and if people behave it's a good opportunity to start rolling this out in our parks. It's not a very expensive technology. The cost is not very much and the benefit could be substantial. I >> I'm good with it. The only question I had for legal was we're talking about administrative fines. If somebody is caught damaging the property, I'd like to see full restitution. >> Yeah. Yeah. U that's still a work in progress. I'm not sure administrative fines would be the best in that situation. You probably would just cite them >> for a criminal violation, a misdemeanor. >> How do we get them to pay for the damages they >> part of the criminal process? Most of the time, a judge will require restitution to be paid as part of a more lenient sentence. So, that's part of the >> the criminal the prosecution. They might not be able to handle this through administrative fine. It might have to be through a a normal citation in court. So citation criminal proceedings and seek full restitution if possible. Right. >> Everybody good with that? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Thank you, sir. >> Yeah. >> You need authorization? You need a motion or anything? You got >> sir information. >> 12E discussion of the future of the park and wreck advisory board. >> All right. Well, uh this is actually revisiting a something that we've talked about multiple times in the last several years. Um, and there was some hesitation uh about essentially officially disbanding this this body. >> Uh, and so staff went back and tried to do it again, tried to get people to even apply for for being a part of the uh of the board itself. Uh, and that simply hasn't happened. And and at this point, you know, it hasn't been functioning uh at all since uh mid 2023. Uh and we basically have have taken a large portion of what they used to be responsible for and it's now going through the planning commission and that's all of your park uh projects actually come through the planning commission now and they are um then looked at in public and there's a public hearing on it before then they come to the the council obviously for any sort of approval. This is all brought forward uh frankly if it wasn't for us once again Capra uh requiring us to to you know clean up some things. We probably would just keep this on the books because uh you know who knows maybe in 10 years uh there's a fervor about people want to be part of this. But the reality is is we've got great parks, people like them. Uh and you know there's not a lot of issues with them uh other than vandalism uh unfortunately. Uh but at this point, what we're asking is to go ahead and give us the opportunity to to to officially disband this, take this off of our of our ordinances. Uh that then allows us to uh continue in the Kapper process. Uh um and and I discussed this with many of you that this would be coming forward at some point >> uh because of the the Kapper requirements. So >> that's it in a nutshell. uh it hasn't been functioning frankly since mid 2018 uh which I believe coincides with the departure of one of our park and wc directors who was very much in control of a lot of things including the park and recck board and then when that went away >> I I guess I I had heartache to lose the the park and recck board I guess my problem was I'd like to share the wealth I'd like to be able to have citizens that have interests, have input in those things. And I think part of the problem with the park and wreck board was honestly us as a council and uh not feeding them enough things to work on and giving them direction and projects and things. So, you know, we can put that on ourselves. It is what it is. We didn't have a lot for them to do because we do have good parks and we do fund them well. It's not like they're scrambling for every nickel and dime that we happen to have in our budget. So we do well with that. So having said that, I understand uh being with from the ISO 9000 and policies and documents that if you have a policy, you write it down. You do it. If you want to be accredited and uh uh your policies read what you do and you do what your policies say. So I understand why we need to leave this out for to get accreditation. I still have heartache because I would like to share some of those decisions with the community. >> I I would love to have the public be involved. You know, we we literally would get no one to apply for the position. We would extend it a couple weeks and we'd make some phone calls. Hey, do you know anybody we can put on this? I mean, we're trying to find a warm body. And the problem is is when you find a warm body, >> they really don't care, >> right? >> Or you have a meeting and not you don't have a quorum show up. >> And that happens all the time. I mean, that's eventually why it had, you know, it died because we can never get a quorum. >> So, I would support closing this down, but I would like to see the opportunity if we have some park and wreck opportunities, maybe uh make an ad hoc committee to work on some of those projects. >> Absolutely. >> You know, we can make an ad hoc committee for just about anything on the fly as we go that we want them to look at with a separate set of citizen eyes at any time. park stuff is great to get community input with stuff like that. >> Yeah. But we do that now with the neighborhood park meetings that if it's a a localized park, we have the neighborhood meetings for the people that are closest to it. Um if it's a regional type park thing, we have that in our comprehensive plans and stuff. So, I mean, you know, I think part of this is technology has changed some of the dynamics to where when you didn't have all those technology things available, um, you know, it was really bodies in a room discussing these things. And that's a great point because, you know, quite literally we do have other avenues now, including the fact that we didn't used to have big signs anytime we had a park project coming, but we decided we need or or putting the hangers out on doors in the neighborhood that are out there. And then obviously with social media now, we're doing all this now, which we were not doing 10 years ago. and and I totally concur with you, councelor Whiting, that uh it's sad to see that lack of enthusiasm from the general public to want to be involved and and be a part of that. So, I would task council with thinking about ad hoc committees in the future of what possibly we might need some outside citizen eyes looking at, if anything, and uh keep that opportunity open. Mhm. >> You know, and it probably wouldn't hurt to have, >> you know, staff throw something out somewhere at some point saying that, you know, we'd like a pool of people that we can pull for that purpose if need be. >> I think innovation center when we start closing in on some of that thing and other projects like that may >> possibly. Uh, your thoughts over on this side? Um I agree to um move forward with um transferring the duties. >> Disbanding. >> Disbanding. Yeah. >> Your thoughts? >> I'm on board. >> All right. >> All right. Thank you all. We'll bring that and it'll be on consent in the future. Thank you. >> All right. >> Where we at? >> Listen and and reports. Miss Lara. >> Um school board meeting. Um as Mr. Uh Bberg said he uh came and did his presentation. Um they did more um they basically made it official that the um um referendum will be on the ballot and they set their dates for um um canvasing the results and all that. Um other than that, they are gearing up for the next school year. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. Oh, and then I had 199 yesterday, which again was probably the highlight of our um of our year. Um and again, everyone just positive comments. Keep up the great work. You guys are doing great. We love our city. So, yeah. >> Counselor. >> Yep. Thank you. Um so, skill will be this Friday. And again, did um a 10 night two night. And the question everywhere was when will the amphitheater be open? >> Coming >> in the future. >> I know. soon. >> Finished waiting. >> Hey, I had MVTA uh last week. Still working on the Burnsville uh bus garage project and uh discussions on uh the funding mechanisms and things for uh moving forward with MVTA. Um also, uh night uh I I need to apologize. I kept forgetting to let our crime prevention specialist out of the back door and worried about getting my freezies for the kids, you know, but uh she we did let her out by the end of the night, but uh had a great time. We actually had the party with the helicopters dropping and so I got visit you guys. >> That was cool. >> Everyone was pointing at that. >> Yeah. So, uh I guess they someone just called and asked them to come to their party and they said sure. So, or emailed or did whatever online and uh you could do that. They had four parties to visit throughout their territory. So nice. >> Um they had worked with the city and the city had came and did the street sweeper on the the culde-sac and the neighbors had picked up anything that might blow away. But uh it was very cool. >> Nice. Very nice. >> Mr. Painy, >> same thing. Night to youite. It's always a great opportunity to get out and talk to residents. Uh great feedback on the city. That was one of my questions. What do you city does well? What the city? What can we improve? Love the city. People have moved here for our city. uh great amenities which everybody knows we got great amenities uh lowest tax in the area so that was very very fun for that uh we did have a spark meeting 169 coalition meeting had a spunk meeting with that we also had MMPA uh over at Canterbury city administrator attended which was was good to see them there um we did talk about we have some of the lowest uh rates in in the area. Um we are positioned to be 48% carbon free and we'll be 60% carbon free by 2030 and our rate increases at or below inflation for 2026. And also one more AMI is uh 141 water meters left to install. 155 electric meters left to install. They're literally knocking doors and and calling just to get these done. So >> very good. Uh, I did a night night te night last night. It is always good talking to the folks and brought back some memories talking to some of these folks that go way back into the childhood, you know, um, seeing them later in life. We do have a very good community and uh, there's a lot of different people that we can thank for that from business, various staffs, various councils, and a whole lot of uh, citizen participation. Overall, my last two weeks for my leazison report was two weeks that I prefer never to go through again in my life. So, had nothing to do with city. It was all personal. It's still ongoing. And uh yeah, >> Mr. Reynolds. >> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um I'd like to talk about uh our award-winning communications team. uh once again did an extremely great job and uh the king of video himself is actually in the process of taping this for us tonight. Uh but Andrew had a first place for social media video campaign for the don't you know series >> and also a first place community interest video for through the years brick by shock be brick. I don't know if you guys saw that but that was I sent it out to you but that was a great that was really really good. Uh, and by the way, this is for from the Minnesota Association of Government Communications Awards. Uh, the award-winning Deb Noble. I'm going to have to say that to all of you guys. Now, Deb Noble once again knocked it out of the park. She got the first place logo for the downtown mural, which is just such a great conversation piece. Second place logo graphic illustration for the Lions Park disc golf tea signage. And second place for the general publications for the Explore Shakpi brochure. And then our communications manager, Amanda, of course, first place special event for the fitness court grand opening. We can all remember back that in the warm last summer. >> And then my favorite, the second place marketing communic communications plan for what was called our Sand Venture disappointment management campaign from summer of 2024. And that's obviously when we thought we might have Sand Venture open. And then we had to tell everybody, "No, it's not going to be open this summer." Uh, and so, uh, hats off to our exceptional communications team, all an intricral part, uh, to all of this organization. They work with every department and and on a daily basis, and and they do they do a tremendous job and and we probably don't say that enough, but uh, thank you all communications team, the award-winning communications team. And that's all I have. Mr. >> Thank you, Mr. Rouse. places >> two. >> Congratulations. >> Pardon me. >> Two. He had two first places. Congratulations. >> Yeah. >> 13A. City bill list. >> No questions. Nothing. >> Nothing. >> News and announcements. Who's got that list? >> I'll start off with one. >> Sand Ventures last day is for the season is August 22nd. Um, after a full summer of swimming, sand, and pirate ships, uh, Sand Venture is coming to an end. Um, modified hours are 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and will begin on the 18th of August. >> We can't wait to see you next summer. >> Oh, >> second one. Huber Park performance and event series include free music and entertainment Thursday, June through August at Hubert Park. The events run from 7 to 9:00. No registration is required. Bring a chair or a blanket to sit on. See you there. >> Free of charge. >> Free of charge. >> Jay. >> Oh, we're down to Rhythm on the Rails. It's last concert >> tonight. >> That's tonight. Yeah, I think >> they're a good one, too. >> But that's what I had. >> Okay. Annual street project reminder. Information on annual street projects such as silk coating and pavement rejuvenation can be found on city's website at www. engagemen.gov. gov. >> And mine is not on the list, but we're going to put it on there. The uh city is going to hopefully put on their website a contact information and phone number for those that have questions about their road right away being tore up for various fiber pro uh projects. And yes, the contractor is required by the city permitting process to come back after the project and fix the yard back to how it was. whether that's hydro seating, seating or soding. Um, but we need to make that contact information more readily available. >> Can I uh address that in other business >> if you like? >> So, we've had all had emails regarding uh the telecommunications contractor in the right of way, whether it be from tree roots to gas lines to whatever. Um, I came home the other day and my front yard was being dug up right away. >> A minute. Um, no notice. I called the city. They No notice. Well, they scrambled. I got a notice in my box uh that day. Uh, and they put up some signs. Um, did you know they're changing the way our gas utility is being fed down in the lower part of in historic lower town? always the utilities came in from the alley. So who made the decision to bring them in from the street? >> Mine was changed years ago to go down a street. >> So I would like the city to let us bring to workshop the rightway permit. I want to know who monitors the rightway permit for the city. I want to know who assures that proper notices are given to homeowners. Uh, I'm curious on how old that gas line is and why it wasn't put in when we just rebuilt Third Avenue 9 years ago. They're tearing up Third Avenue and I don't think they'll get it back to where it was. Um, it's just beating on it. They did you know they're closing Third Avenue? Did Did we close Third Avenue as a city council? No, we didn't. They just shut it down. Um, so we're getting run, these contractors are running the city. There's no oversight. Uh, I want to know, um, who decides, you know, where these utilities are coming in. If it's not the city or the city council, who pays for the road repairs, who monitors the roads so that they are repaired properly? I want to know everything we got about the rightway permit. So, I'm asking the staff to send that out to all the council members and I'd like to workshop that and I'd hope I'd have that support. >> Absolutely. I can we can answer a bunch of them questions right now. >> Well, I don't think we need to. I think we had a long agenda. I'd like to look through the the rightway process per's and then I'd like to discuss it. >> There's definitely some improvements that could be made and a lot of these are contractor driven for sure. Um, >> but if there's a contractor that's hired by Centerpoint and we decide that they're not a a reputable contractor, shouldn't we have the right to say that contractor can't work for Centerpoint because we don't believe they're a reputable contractor? >> I mean, those are things that are all should be part of it. And then storage, they've shut down the whole third avenue, one side of the street, and there are home businesses down there with with all their construction project stuff. One whole side road is for all their dirt and stuff. their they've shut down the road. Two blocks are all their construction equipment that needs to be addressed in our rightway permit. They should put that on uh public's areas or they can't just shut down two blocks like that when there's home notices, right? >> No, no, no. There was no notice. >> It I got it the day after they started digging up my front yard. Um that's not right. >> No, I can tell. >> Everybody comes to me and complains. They they did my gas line after my street was done, but I thought it went fairly smooth, but we're not in the bedrock like you are. We're further up the hill. And uh they actually went this way down a street and then they came up from there to the beside the sidewalk under the sidewalk to the meter and there is no easement there. So they created their own easement without telling anybody. But then the easement that they currently have that comes off the alley that used to go to the meter is still an easement for the gas line. And the gas line's still there. There's no reason to dig it up to tear it out. But it's >> so they're going to have to run the gas lines from the front to the back now because they planning on replacing some meters and but not all. And then uh >> mine a street now runs down 8th Avenue. >> It doesn't come up the alley anymore. But anyway, we'll have a workshop on it and we'll have a discussion. Uh, I'd like to make a motion to adjurnn to August 19th, 2025 at 7:00. >> There a second. Second. >> Yes. Second. >> Any discussion on the motion? >> No discussion. >> All in favor say I. I. Opposed. We're adjourned.