All right, it's 5:30. Today is Tuesday, May 19th, and this is a special meeting of the ISD 728 school board. Here, I call the meeting to order. Just want to make a note to board members so that you're aware that this meeting is being recorded. Normally, something like this where we're just hearing information from a consultant would be a work session and not a special meeting, but we made it a special meeting intentionally so that it would be recorded because of the nature of the presentation and big decisions that are going to be made at the next meeting. We thought it important that the community have the ability to go back and review and create a discussion so that this contributes to our transparency and so that's why it's a special meeting and it is being recorded. So, having said that, why don't we start by saying the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I handed out the agenda and there's copies posted in the back table. I need a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing no discussion, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. The agenda is approved. Under special business, the first thing on the agenda is a resolution of ISD 728 school board to celebrate America's 250th anniversary {slash} birthday, something that we'll never see again in our lifetime, probably in our lifetime. So, um I don't remember cuz I was three when the when the last big number happened, so anyways, something very cool. Do we I need a motion though to um bring this to the table. Second. And a second. Any discussion? I was just one of the reasons I brought this forward is that um America overall is is a special country and a lot of things happened in the development of this country. And some of the things that we we overlook sometimes is how old our Constitution really is and how long um America's been in existence. I was looking at one of the oldest constitutional frameworks, it's over in San Marino. Have you heard of the Republic of San Marino? It's over in Italy, central eastern Italy, it's landlocked in Italy, but there's a little republic. I've been there a few times. It's a nice tourist place. That's about really what it is. >> [clears throat] >> But, this special time in world history is unparalleled. We went through the bicentennial back in 1976 and some of you probably weren't alive in 1976, but I was in middle school at that time and I remember we got to go to Philadelphia and see the Liberty Bell and Constitution Hall and it was just really a cool experience. And it's unparalleled that we've achieved 250 years since the Declaration and over 237 years since the Constitution went into effect. And so, the main reason why is because of our Declaration of Independence, the preamble and the truth that it espouses. And you know, we read these sometimes, we I'll read the preamble, it says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." What makes our country different is the fact that our rights are inalienable, meaning that they're not separated, they're not given by government, they're inherent within us, endowed by our creator, and that makes our country very different from all the countries in the world. You have self-evident truths, which are absolute truths. I mean, they're timeless forever. Endowed by the creator are individual freedoms and rights outside of government. And we see countries that take those rights away. Also, the consent of the governed. The school board exists by the consent of the people that we govern. We're governance body. We're elected. Also, the pursuit of happiness, that's free enterprise. I can sell tomatoes out of my garden if I want. That's free enterprise. Um This belief though has propelled America to become one of the most powerful and prosperous countries in the history of the world. And it was driven by the belief that ordinary people could do extraordinary things. And so, remember most of the world's history is marked by tyranny and oppression. Subjugation of people by rogue dictators was the norm. America broke the mold and created a society of unparalleled opportunity and lifted massive amounts of people out of utter poverty. The other idea was equality. As a new country, it went through birth pains, war, and struggle to cement the idea that all humanity is equal endowed by their creator. Compared with the rest of the world, there's no equal to America's values on human dignity and worth. Matter fact, many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence believed that their treasonous document by the British would be their death sentence. In fact, many of the signers faced retribution by the British. For example, Robert Morris, who helped finance the revolution, died bankrupt and he was in a debtor's prison. You know, our founders laid everything out for our generations to come and we just need to remember that in the patriotism that that our founders and the people back then had for America a vision. And I was thinking of the story about Nathan Hale. I don't ever heard of Nathan Hale at all. He was a patriot in the Continental Army during the American Revolution who became one of the most favorite patriot famous patriots because of his capture and execution by the British in 1776. And basically, Hale was born in 1755 in Connecticut, graduated from Yale University. So, Yale was around back then. And when the American Revolution began, he joined the Continental Army and became a captain. After the British captured New York City in 1776, General George Washington needed intelligence about British troop positions. Hale volunteered for a dangerous spying mission behind enemy lines disguising himself as a school teacher. While gathering information, he was captured by the British likely after being recognized or betrayed and found carrying notes and sketches of British defenses. The British considered him a spy and he was sentenced to death without a formal trial. So, on September 22, 1776 at age 21, Hale was hanged by the British near what is now Manhattan. He is especially [clears throat] for the famous last words attributed to him, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." So, what the founders gave us this day is liberty, freedom, and a society that has no comparison with previous generations in world history. And I personally visited many other countries. I lived in two different countries, Asia, Europe, and the freedoms are not the same as compared to America. Matter of fact, when I've been in the jungles of Indonesia and come back to Singapore, I'm happy to be back in Singapore where you are safe again. And our generation now has access to food, clean water, and sanitation that are unparalleled in the human history. You know, I remember just a little over 20 years ago when I was in Ukraine, we had to walk I was staying in an apartment with a family, and we had to walk over a mile to access drinking water. And that's common in most of the world. America, Canada, some of Europe is different. So, we've created a high standard of living and created a massive middle class. So, why celebrate our 250th anniversary? We must remind ourselves how fortunate we are to be living in a time like this in unparalleled freedom. And I think it's important our students need to understand how fortunate they are to live in America with a sense of gratitude. And remember America was founded as a constitutional republic and like no other country in the world, the leaders were selected to represent and serve their constituents. As elected school board director, I'm elected to represent the community at large. The community is my boss and I'm not their dictator. Therefore, America is exceptional because we are free. Over the course of history, leaders would have imprisoned their people who sought freedoms like we have. We see that in Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and many other countries. After visiting over 40 countries now, there's no other place that comes to close to America and the freedoms we have. America has unleashed the potential of human spirit for freedom and opportunity like no other country has. We're not better than the other person and only that we are free. This is why America is exceptional. So, >> [snorts] >> that was my thoughts on it in terms of celebrating, we're looking at the week of the 14th and especially Constitution Day, the 17th. And that's to be determined on what we do, but we'll have some type of celebration for America and celebrate the anniversary birthday of America. So, that was the idea around this resolution. So, I'm done. Thanks, John. Any other discussion? Any other discussion? I have nothing to say, John. I agree. You took it all from me, so. >> [laughter] >> I mean, I agree. It's something special. I remember, you know, we'll never never do it again, so I think it's good to honor and set an example for our youth, so. Hearing no other discussion, we'll call for a vote. All those in favor, say I. I. I. I. All those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. All right. The next item is not an item that's up for voting. This is for um informational only only, so we're going to hear >> [clears throat] >> two presentations. First, we're going to uh hear from Darren Sievers from School Perceptions on the results of the survey that we did um and then we'll hear from the administration on um some advice following that. So, we'll hear from both in a row and then after that we'll have discussion and opportunity for questions um with either Darren or the administration, so I'd like to recognize Darren Seabed. Good evening, everyone. Good to see you again. Uh just let me get my technologies swapped over from your computer to mine so I can share my presentation tonight. And I have a summary of findings for you from your community survey. All right. So this is our table of contents that we'll be following the presentation. We're going to give you one slide of background about the company. Obviously, the board and administration knows about us, but I we make that slide to educate the audience about who we are and what we do. [cough] And from there, all the the gold slides will be respondent information. Our process is highly anonymous, but we do have data to to tell you who responded in a number of other ways within that anonymity structure. And then we're going to get right into the results and analysis. There is screenshots of the survey so that you you're reminded of the look of the survey and then what data we unearthed from that section of the survey. And then we'll wrap it up with any and all questions. Um I'm here to serve and support um to interpret this uh third-party data for you so you can plan around the data. And uh no questions are off-limits. I want you to feel A lot of times people think we're oh we're almost done with the school perception. Actually, you're just getting started because after tonight you may have questions, you may have homework assignments for me to drill down, >> [clears throat] >> do deeper study into different aspects of the data. Fair game, okay? And at the end, what I want you to know, go back to my office tomorrow. I know you're recording this tonight, but I talked to Amy and and uh if directed by the board, I'm offering to make a a Zoom uh video recording of the presentation in addition to your board recording where I just present the data very straight-on on a 12-14 minute experience and then we provide that that video copy to you so you can email it off to your parents, email it to your staff, and post it on your website. It'll be shorter than a board discussion with all the Q&A and we've had very good luck getting um, hundreds of views with the districts that we serve. So, if you'd like that, ponder that while presenting. If you think the slides is something you'd like to share with the masses, I can do that for you via a recording. All right. So, School Perceptions, uh, we um, are a third-party research firm and we were founded in 2002 and our mission is to help educational leaders gather, organize, and use data to make strategic decisions. We've been doing this, as I said, for 24 years. We've conducted over 3.3 million staff, parent, student, and community surveys for School Perception. And we've helped more than 1,400 school districts navigate strategic planning and referendum planning just like what we're doing for ISD 728, uh, these past couple weeks and tonight. So, let's talk about our findings. Uh, your survey had a deadline of April 27th and we received 4,859 respondents. That's as of this morning. We had three more surveys taken overnight. Uh, we say there's a deadline. That's actually not true. Uh, we never um, shut the survey off. Uh, if a survey comes back to us, we update it. We want every voter regardless of whether they hit the deadline or not, whether the mail service was timely or not. A lot of times folks will mail it on the deadline day and think they met the deadline. Sure, they did. Cuz then it hits our our office and we enter the results. So, that's the latest and greatest response rate. In case you're curious, um, we had 1,036 all the the surveys taken via paper. that means the balance of those were via the QR code or the web link because I'll remind you we gave them three different ways that they could take the survey. Um whatever is most convenient to them. And and of the the 1,036 justifies kind of a a nationwide trend we're seeing that that paper is making a comeback. Uh small town newspapers seem to be stabilizing and even thriving as a source of school news and local news. And we're getting better response rates to our paper surveys than ever before because it seems as though people really appreciate gripping it, setting it aside by their grocery list, their to-do list, and taking it on the weekends or at night when they're catching up from their busy lives versus getting something in their inbox that gets buried behind the Kohl's coupon and the Target sales announcement. And so, um paper's agreeing with people even if they use it as a way to study the the questions. We It's less of a survey, it's more of an interactive newsletter, really. And uh and then sometimes I've wanted to scan it with their phone and answer the question. So, your response rate is 15.24%. You're wondering, is that good? Is that bad? Our company average is 16% to 18%. So, you're right there. What I have found is the bigger the district, the lower the response rate. For context, we did a project for Cedar Cedar Rapids, Iowa, very similar in size to your district, and they only had uh about 11% response rate. We did Rapid City, South Dakota last summer, and they were around 13% if I recall correctly. So, we're very excited and proud of your district for having such a strong response rate. Know that we have certain benchmarks within the the company as far as the response rate. Once we hit 10%, it's shocking at how the data really flattens out. I didn't believe this when I first uh heard about School Perceptions because I was a customer first for a suburban district in the Milwaukee area. Owner of the company wrote the survey for me and I was tracking our results and said once he hits 10% you'll see that the yeses, no's, and maybe's stay very similar. We got to 23% in my district, the data was darn near identical as it was when I was tracking it at 10%. So, the fact that you well above 10% is really big benchmark. We do some very small districts. For the small districts like our our partners in North Dakota once they hit 500, the data really flattens out once you get the representative sample of 500, but I was thrilled that we hit nearly 5,000 for you. Okay? Within that, we always have a statistical margin of error. And that goes down the bigger the district. So, maybe your response rates aren't quite as high if you're large, but your margin of error goes down because your data's less vulnerable because you had so many respondents. We get a district like a Yellow Medicine where we did a project in Great Falls, they're going to have a much higher margin of error roughly about 5%. When we give a prediction of voter support, theirs could vary by 4%. We calculated yours at 1.44% and that's all statistically based on 4,500 4,859 respondents. So, the reason I point out the margin of error is later on that will come back to us as part of the discussion of what's next. When I give you a projection of voter support, know that we're going to have plus or minus 1.44 in our heads about that number that I present to you tonight. Okay? Let's talk about who took the survey. As I said, every survey had a confidentiality of practice in place and that was a 16-digit alphanumeric one-time user code. If the survey was taken, it could never be taken a second time. Um we did have some people say, "Could you open it back up for me?" And we did do that for people who said that they they forgot to make a comment [clears throat] or something like that. Our office team handles those requests, but once it's complete and finished, it can't be taken twice. But, we did ask them their age. And that's very important to do because we want to study age trends. We want to be very sensitive to the 65-plus population where retired on fixed income. We watch that number very closely. We also look at the 35-to-44-year-olds very closely because those tend to be the prime parenting years. And quite honestly, I'm always curious to see how engaged your 18-to-24-year-olds. Are they paying attention to what's going on in the district? And always about 1 or 2% of the survey respondents are in that age range because they're they're just trying to figure out their next step in life. And so, they're not really plugged into what the school is thinking about, but it's still interesting to see. Sometimes we'll see an anomaly where they're really paying attention for whatever reason. Also, we do We did ask the question on the survey, are you a resident or not? Sometimes this slide confuses people because they'll say, "Well, you did a district survey. How could any of the respondents be someone who's not a resident?" That 7% that said they are not residents are composed of three different groups. We have staff who work for you, but they may not reside in the district. Thus, they can't vote. You will have open enrollment families that you elect to send their children to your schools rather than their home district. They're in that because we did send the survey out to parents. And you may have some property owners that don't reside here, but they have a second property. Whether it's a a rental property or it's a vacation home or something of that nature. If they're If they're not a resident, then they're then they would have to check that box. Know that going forward, the 92% that said they are resident, that's the data we're going to study for you tonight. That's the data we're going to unpack tonight because the survey is really about voter support. We value the opinions of those other folks. I'll talk that up a bit more in a few slides, but we [clears throat] really are trying to measure for you the opinions of your voters and your taxpayers. Next slide. We did ask which municipality uh they live in, and this is a very very important slide. Uh we want to give voice to every township, every city. Um sometimes there's there's a handful, three or four of these. In my district of Wisconsin, we had nine. In uh West Central, which we're going to give their report tomorrow, I think they had 22. Uh so yours is a kind of a moderate size, but um we have responses from every one of the townships and cities, and in talking with um Andy, it looks like that's fairly representative of where the population comes from as well. So we feel like it's a nice representative sample based on the population rate from each of those uh municipality. What I talked about earlier is you're never done with me is if you go home tonight and uh decide you'd like me to do some more work based on studying age groups or studying municipalities, glad to do that. I've done some initial work on municipalities already. Uh and so we some of that we can talk about later, but again, these are all the different data points. Every data point I presented here, resident or not, municipality, we can drill down further and find out what their feelings were on the questions in the survey by sub aggregate group, while also letting the [clears throat] process continue to be highly confidential. All right, the next slide is going to take a There's a little bit of a mini lesson around uh these these two pie charts. So we said, "Are you an employee of the district?" 16% of the survey respondents said they're employees. Something very important for everyone to understand about this slide is we love to see high engagement from the staff. One of the best retention retention factors you have are good working conditions, safe working conditions. Um safety in our staff surveys that we do for districts is [clears throat] higher on the staff wish list than pay these days. They want to be safe. They want to feel good about the the place they're going to work to work with the children. And so to have 16% of your surveys uh respondents be employees is great. We want to hear from them. That being said, they are not 16% of your voters. They are less than 1% of voters. So they don't move the needle at the polls. But this is also a measure of what people would like to see from the school board. And so to have their voice in these facility considerations is critical because no survey, excuse me, no bond is ever passed if the staff aren't feeling good about it as part of the entity that you're trying to meet the needs of. You want parents' needs to be met, you want the staff needs to be met, and you want the community's needs to be met. And so they're engaged, they're paying close attention, but we will re-weight this when I give you a projection of voter support later on and bring them down to about 7/10 of a percent. And it really doesn't move the data. Parents move move the data. Do you have a child attending a school in the district? 53% of surveys were returned by parents. We studied your 2024 census data. 30% of your voters are parents. So they make up a significant chunk. And they will have a very large impact on whatever you put on the ballot. Now, I presented those, staff less than 1%, parents at 30%, the remaining, let's just call it 70%, don't work for the district and don't have kids in the system. That population, that group is the group that definitely has to be on board with whatever you decide to do or will not pass. Because they're 7 out of 10 voters. So, that's why we have these disaggregating factors. I'll present the data broken up by all three of those groups later on and show you how they felt about every question you asked uh along the the survey journey. Okay? Again, staff less than one. Parents 30% non-parents non-staff 70% of your voters. And in very um some of our communities it's 80/20. A little bit of the older side of the community. Sometimes it's 60/40. And we we really pride ourselves on um adjusting it so that it's representative of your district, your community. And then finally, uh just a custom question that was part of this process, we asked, "Do you participate in the district's community education program?" 36% of survey respondents said that they do. That's good uh data for your for your leadership team. I talked about communication before and uh we asked the parents and the non-parents non-staff. We didn't uh ask the staff this because you can just email them. And that's we know that that's what they prefer because they're at their workplace. But, we asked parents, "How do you like to receive information from the school district?" This isn't just about a potential bond referendum. This is about day-to-day practice. And they in very large number said they love the convenience of an email, but number two in their preference list was the 7 to 8 happenings. Followed by the website. Followed by an online newsletter. And then um social media. So, parents are looking to be hearing from you in a variety of means. Probably the day-to-day things, email. The bigger picture things, the 7 to 8 happenings. You'll need to decide, regardless of what you decide to do. Best part of a good survey is being able to get back to the folks and tell them what you learned. And so this tells you how to communicate back your findings and whatever next steps you decide to take. Non-parents, non-staff, they're trickier. You don't have their emails. And so this uh this question, we found that they too love the 7-2-8 happenings. They value the Star News as their number two source of school news. And then after that, they go to the website. They're looking for an online newsletter if you would happen to have their email, or they'll click on the website. So, that's not just about this bond referendum, it's about day-to-day practice for you as a as a board and administration. Question. What Do you have any idea on age groups? You know, you know, what age group Oh, again, so what I What's neat about the software we use, John, is we can, by click, by by click, 35-44 year olds, I'll be able to tell you what their communication preferences are. Um I click at 65 plus, I can That's all I don't have that prepared for tonight. >> Sure, sure, no, that's But I But I can give you >> I was just I just kind of wondering what demographic >> Yep. Be glad to tell you >> refers to, you know, Yeah. Okay. All right, let's talk about the survey. We got into the survey, and the survey, as I said, was it was equal parts a survey and an interactive newsletter. We used the eight-page document to educate the community about the capacity challenges and forecast uh where things are and where things likely are headed. We talked about the the means by which you've been studying the potential to put a bond referendum on the ballot um in November. Then we got into the survey questions. We talked about the different ways that a that a a a Roman crunch could be solved. Talk about redrawing attendance boundaries, drive to high school addition, new high school in in Otsego. And with that, here's your first set of data results. Just asking the question, would you support ISD 728 building a new high school in Otsego, which was the recommendation of your subcommittee. Uh 78% of staff said they would be supportive. Of that, 70% of parents. And 40% of non-parents, non-staff. And then you see 10% of staff were against this proposal, 19% of parents, 40% of non-parents, non-staff. And then the remaining 12% of staff, 11% of parents, and 16% of non-parents, non-staff were not sure. Our company average on not sure is is roughly 11 and 1/2%. So that's very very uh typical for the staff and the parents. The non-parents, non-staff will be inflated, but no surprise because we haven't talked solutions, we haven't talked dollars and cents yet. But the reason we asked that question right out of the gate, and this often happens as an independent third-party research firm doing this for you, there are sometimes where if that question there's not support, then the whole process stops. So we call this our permission slip question. They're giving you permission to consider a new high school option and proceed, put some options in front of them. There have been projects where when that particularly the purple bars, the non-parents, non-staff were let's say it's 37% yes, we've said you don't have support. They're not going to support anything tied to a new high school, so you can just stop right there. That was not the case with your project, so I'll proceed with my presentation. Uh so we talked about a new high school size. You put in front of your community a 1,900 student solution and a 1,300 student solution with supporting bullet points describing um what would transpire, what that would mean in terms of how long it would be the solution. And so then we asked them just to weigh the two different options. Kind of a short-term solution that handles the influx of of enrollment right now or a long-term uh several decades solution at the 1,900 size building. And this is what we learned on your behalf. Once again, staff highly supportive. Parents very supportive. And non-parents, non-staff with a plurality, if not a majority. Okay. Now you'll see that the not sures skyrocketed on this question. That's because you still have to talk dollars and cents. So now they've weighed in on on where their leanings are as far as size, but still need to talk dollars and cents and tax impact. So we educated them on other facility projects that would coincide with this. Um that a a space for for early childhood to eighth graders, a level four a setting four facility, some updated career and tech ed facilities, which is nationwide on our projects. Nothing is testing stronger right now than career and technical education. It's one-to-one with roofs, secure entrances, boilers and chillers because everyone nationwide recognizes that we are reaching a crisis point with skilled tradesmen and women. And that the the launching pad for that has to be high school because they haven't discovered a passion and interest in that in that pathway while in high school, it's very hard to find that passion. High school is the place to discover. They could take some intro to electricity classes, intro to CNC programming classes, graphic design, those things. And so all across the Midwest we have projects where they're going from old school shop to modern uh modern technology career and technical education. And we outlined for the community an itemized list of what the two different options would be. A 1,900 student high school, a 1,300 student high school with all the accompanying projects that were outlined in the previous pages in the survey. And this is what we learned. Which option would you support through a bond referendum? Now this This explain this graph. We isolated only option one, which was a choice, only option two, which was a choice in the survey, folks that were fine with either high school solution, folks that were not in favor of either option, and those that were not sure. Now look at what happened with your not sures. Very much flattened out right to your company average now that we have it the dollars. That to us is success because we don't want there to be confusion. And when we see 19% of the not sures after we've just showed them a tax chart and just had several pages explaining the nature of the facilities being considered, if we get to 19% unsure, then we feel like our survey didn't get the messaging across somewhere somehow. That's That was very very nice to see. What we needed to do though is the next graph will combine the eithers with option one and the eithers with option two to show you where things landed. And so, the data became very clear that your community between the two options is preferring option one, the bigger high school, the long-term solution, as opposed to option two, the 1,300 [clears throat] student building. What we do now is now this is where I bring you back to the census data and the waiting exercise. Remember we talked about staff? Well, it's 7/10 of a point. Uh parents are 30%, non-parents, non-staff 70%. So, on the next slide, I'm going to give you a projection of voter support if the vote were held today. This is our prediction. Remember, plus or minus 1.44%. This is what we would predict would take place if the vote were held today on both solutions. So, the 1,900 student high school with accompanying other projects, we project would be received 47.5% support. These are just the yes votes. The votes. I need to make that really clear. 47.5% of the voices that said yes. Remainder are not sure and no. Option two, the 1,300 student high school, not even close to your margin of error, 36.1%. So, their preferences were always for the bigger, longer-term solution. Then, once the tax impacts were put in front of them, the 1,900 student solution had roughly 11% more support. What I want to tell you is that there there was a day where this formula as you notice, you see we did the the point three, the 30% and the point seven, 70% to weight those groups at the percent that they can actually show up and vote, not the percent that they responded in the survey. That's very important because we need to predict what's going to happen when the polls open. Know that there's a day when we would weight the not sures and give a projection that roughly 1/3 of those not sures are going to come to the side of yes, 2/3 of the not sures are going to decide to vote no. So, if we go back and take 1/3 of those three numbers, prior to 2020, we would have had a an extra number in that waiting formula and added about 1/3 of those three numbers to these equations, which would have brought you closer to 50%. However, after COVID, >> [clears throat] >> the the formula didn't hold up anymore. And we pride ourselves on being conservative with our estimates on your behalf. We don't want to be um looking at this data through rose-colored glasses. We'd rather be a little bit more conservative. So, we stopped guessing at the balance sures because none of our projections are using the 1/3 held up after COVID. It was just a very very hard time for schools being told they had to close, opening up in varying different ways, and we just go with yeses, no's, and then we count the not sures as no's for you. Any questions about how I arrived at those numbers? That was a lot. But, I'm just trying to make it clear 2020 for census data, percent of parents, percent of non-parents, non-staff, and then obviously the voice that we really value, the staff, but again less than 1% so they really don't they really don't change the data in the formula. Okay? Okay, going it forward, this wasn't just a survey about facilities. While you have been a statewide leader in using staff, student, and parent survey data to measure your performance and make future improvement goals, we just learned that 70% of your community doesn't get a chance to weigh in on on those surveys that we use with so many districts around Minnesota, Wisconsin. So, this was your opportunity to get feedback from them on how things are going in the school district. So, we have four questions we ask at every survey we give. How is the district doing in delivering a high-quality education? Keeping the public informed. Managing funds appropriately. And building pride in the community. We did disaggregate this by the three groups one more time and then I'll show you a combined slide. On this exercise, we use a one to four rating scale, Likert scale, four being the goal, and one being poor. So, our true median on this Likert scale is 2.5. So, for easy skimming, you 2.5 is kind of your middling middle score. And we would love to see as many of your uh disaggregated scores be above a 2.5 as possible. Um not all of them got there. Staff across the board, all four questions were above a 2.5. Parents, three of the four were um managing funds appropriately just slightly below the 2.5. And then um the non-parents, non-staff were not that far below the parents. Uh uh the managing funds appropriately was significantly below the 2.5. Other than that, there the keeping the public informed right there. And the other two uh measures um above the 2.5 median. So, when we combined all of your data taking all three groups and and blending it together for an average, the first column shows you the percent of respondents that gave you a three or a four on each question. And then the average score when we took all respondents combined together. Know that it's not unusual to have managing funds appropriately be the lowest scoring of a four, regardless of what survey we're doing. Managing funds is is an area of frustration regardless of of what the name of your district is. And in your case, you've got soaring enrollment and you just got asked not asking millions of dollars of questions. And so managing funds appropriately is on their mind. And and that's not a surprise that that would be the lowest. So that's some data for you to consider. Um I would say it's very very much in the average range compared to other districts. Um it's not impeccable in its scoring, but I've also had the the unfortunate job to sometimes give scores far lower than this to some boards most recently, too. So I'd say it's really right in the average range. And our closing question and um as a former principal, former superintendent, this is my favorite question of the survey. >> [clears throat] >> Um on a scale of zero to 10, how likely would you be to recommend the district to a friend or family member? For me, whenever I had a family enroll and say, "Hey, we came here because the Johnsons said this is a neat place for our kids to learn." And you know, the greatest greatest endorsement we can get is when families are saying, "Come on over here. This is a great place. Buy a house here. This is a good place to send your kids." So your score when all the respondents were averaged um on a zero to 10 rating scale was a 6.48 with one in four being right at that Minnesota nice neutral score. Um which is not uncommon. Um we we don't If you remember from our staff, student, parent surveys, we don't offer a neutral score >> [cough] >> because they're experiencing the school and we want them to have an opinion and if they're not sure, we don't weight it. This survey we we do weight it because you do have 70% of the community that may have never stepped a foot in the schools. They don't work here, they don't have kids in the system, so we need them to be able to say, "I don't really have an opinion." Okay? And there's a big group of people saying they just really don't know much about you. Not enough to recommend a friend or family member to enroll their kids in the system. So finally, um we always Sometimes the data is so crystal clear we don't have this page. I'll have a project where, as I told you, the support is at 37%. I don't need this slide because the data speaks for itself. Sometimes I've had projects that are so much um there's so much yearning for a remodel of an elementary school or something of that nature but the data is so strong that we don't need a what did we learn page. But when projects have um some level of complexity to the data that you that you have, we did create this to give you some guiding principles for further discussion. So the first one is, what did we learn on your behalf? We learned that a majority of staff and parents support building a new high school in Antigo and a plurality of non-parents, non-staff also support this. Secondly, all three sub-subgroups prefer the 1,900 capacity school to the 1,300 capacity school. Seems as though the sentiment that you're going to do something, do something that is a a longer-term solution for you. There is not weighted majority support for either option. However, option one at 47.5% has more support than option two. The data was crystal clear there. And then finally, point of clarification within our takeaways that the 47.5% and 36.1% support is based on respondents who said they would support the project. The other respondents were unsure, an average of 11%, or not supportive, 42%. So, that is my presentation. What questions do you have for me? Anything is fair game, methodology, um data points, homework you want to give me in the days ahead. Um it'd be interesting to see the the breakup by community, you know, in terms of who supports, who parents and non-parents. >> So, I can give you a thumbnail sketch of that right off off the top here. So, I would tell you that the the support um in rank order, Otsego was very much in favor of of the project. >> I can't believe that. Rogers, also very much in favor of a solution to take the pressure off of Rogers High. And then, support by your other biggest municipalities, Elk River, um more in the that too close to call range, and then it dipped from there in Zimmerman and some of those, almost by proximity to the new buildings. The further out you got, the further away uh the support came from supporting a passing level. Sure. I provided I just just a maybe 2 days ago um Andy and I were talking over the weekend and preparing for this tonight, and I did download from MA spreadsheet that shows all the support levels for every municipality in that, but I can I can put something together for the board when you're ready. Well, the rest of the board would be interested in that. I would like that information as well. Yeah. And it sounds like you already have that completed. Yes, I did an initial look at the biggest biggest groups. I didn't drill down to all all of them, but I I I can, or if you just want the largest populations, I can give you an exact number. I I did some just some posted notes and kind of studied it cuz I was as curious as you because I'm looking at you got some big municipalities. Yeah. Um I'd like and if everybody else would be okay the the numbers. But I'll do that. North of the river specifically. Sure. For sure. I'll get you an exact using this same Again, I did an initial this was probably a week and a half ago before the survey is complete to kind of prep and have a mindset about where the leanings were by municipalities, but I'll do this exact same formula for the five six largest municipalities. Um when you say the northernmost did you did you have a couple specific that you Osseo and Zimmerman and Elk River, I guess. And then they they would come in that five six. So I think if you did the top five six which had the full percentages, that that was covered. Okay. The only ones that aren't on there pretty much equal population. above the 280 survey range and then it's spiked to like 800 for for the others or above. So by all means I'll I'll take care of that for you. Yep. All right. So Darren, can we I think the way it would work best is can we have you do all your next presentation and then you want and we'll bring them all together for listening questions at the end? Sure. That would be good. And we've got our presentation and have him around so Oh, yeah. It's more homework to do than Oh, by all means. And then we'll but don't go anywhere cuz No. Um where where would you like me to go? All right. Just stay there. Okay. All right. Just stay right there. I'm going to go back back there because I want to write down some of these requests and myself some homework. >> Yep. Well, I have some questions on this one, too, but I think your the next presentations will clarify some things and very good answer questions. So for the sake of time, we'll let you get through all your stuff and then we'll Yeah. I'm through all my stuff. And actually I think we're going to have probably take the spot of the mic. Okay. So it'll be if you want to just change for a minute to the front row, then we'll bring it back. pleasure. Thank you. It's like musical musical chairs, right? Yeah, it's just fun. Are you ready? Yep. All right. Staff, Joe and Corti, want to come up? We uh actually have a presentation to share with you tonight. Um as we have digested this data and spent a ton of time talking about what does the data say, what does the data mean, um we thought it was important to bring to you um a recommendation for what we think potentially the next steps could be. Certainly, this is the board's decision. The board can give us more homework and ask ask questions, and we'll we'll bring that back with you for now. But we wanted to make sure that you had the chance to kind of hear what's on our let you know kind of what we're thinking. So, you're going to see a little bit of a variation tonight in the in the facility solution presentation. So, pay close attention, I would say, as it comes up. Um tonight, we have Joe and Corti back, uh familiar faces to talk to us. They They have started this process going all the way back to task force, if you remember, right? And they led the task force, they brought a lot of that information through that community group. You're also going to hear from cabinet members on different pieces, like we did when we brought you some of this before. And then we will wrap up with the recommendation, and of course always stand for questions. We will partner again with Aaron to say, how does the how does this kind of align with what the survey is telling us? Um and then when we're done, our job our team's marching orders is we open our notebooks and we hear from the board, what do you want to know, what do you want to hear, what's missing for you to be educated and ready to make this decision? So, with that, Joe and Corti. I'm just going to go. Good evening, school board. Uh we'll jump into our presentation. Um the start is just to help give a good grounding uh for all of us to just remember where we've come in this process so far. So, over the last 10 years, we've been very closely watching our enrollment data to see where um we are projecting. In that time, we have grown as a district over 12% um as we uh have continued to grow throughout our district and um watching closely to what that means for not only enrollment, but what our capacity in that each our buildings looks like. Um we have seen that that trend uh according to our data is expected to continue. We also partnered over the last year with a third party to come in and do some uh trend analysis to make sure that uh our numbers were accurate and found that that was their finding as well, too. Um most of the growth, as you know, has shown up in the southern part of our district, mainly in the Otsego and Rogers area. Uh about a year ago, the school board uh started the process that we've done numerous times in our district in the past, which is made a call for a community task force. Uh really to put that alignment out to say we have um some solutions that we would like to have the community weigh in on. Uh we had some uh community members uh volunteer to be a part of that process, and throughout this fall, the the community um members met uh routinely to come forward look at data um and develop some official recommendations to bring back uh to the school board as a way to solve our capacity enrollment um concerns. Uh that Those recommendations included a top recommendation that they brought forward, which was uh to build a new Otsego 9-12 high school, uh and also to look at different pairings uh that the district would find the right ways to accommodate the enrollment needs in the middle school and elementary school settings. Um they also brought forward an alternative recommendation to say that uh looking at again those uh elementary and middle school needs, um but to then evaluate the possibility of also doing that addition at Rogers High School um to accommodate some of that uh capacity need. Uh they made some just uh strategic what we call statements of consultation as recommendations to the board includ- in addition to those capacity pieces. So, one was to uh continue to look at those enrollment trends and investigate some opportunities where we should be considering um land acquisitions for future uh growth and need. Um to avoid boundary changes unless all all other alternatives have been exhausted. And to consider looking at any of those new builds um as an opportunity for some educational campus to incorporate some of the other types of programming. Um, that we'd be looking at. Uh, as a reminder for our public funding history, so since the year 2000, um, we have brought forward 14, uh, referendum, um, uh, decisions to our community members. Um, uh, during that time we heard very clearly that our our communities were getting frustrated with the fact of having the routine asks coming forward. So, when we developed the 2019 campaign, we were very purposeful to say we we wanted to build a program that would last us for a duration of time. At that time we evaluated that we could make that program last, uh, for 7 to 10 years before we needed to come back to our voters. So, in another way of saying, we went from 13 votes in the first 14 years of our century to just one since 2014. So, um, very proud we've been able to accommodate, um, that community interest. So, um, what we have for you tonight is after hearing and getting some feedback back on that survey data, we we know we still have a solution or a problem we need to solve. We still need we're going to run out of space, uh, relatively soon. So, we have made some, um, modifications to those original recommendations, um, uh, that have come forward and, um, that's what we have for you tonight is to show you what some of those new, um, alternatives might be based on the survey data that we have presented. Um, we are feeling confident that within this new recommendation, we will be able to say that this recommendation would solve our building capacity and enrollment issues for 10 years. So, that meaning that, um, throughout the the recommendations that you'll see brought forward here, um, and for the next decade until 2036, we believe that this will solve the solutions that we would not need to return, um, to voters during that 10-year period of time. Uh, what we have for you tonight is very similar to the recommendations you've seen thus far. Uh, we'll talk a little bit more about how our high school solution we have done some modifications based on the input that we got from our community of wanting to build for a long-term solution. So, we'll talk a little bit more about that, but that will also include our E8 solution, our education center, our CTE improvements, and our safety updates. Good evening, board members, cabinet members, and our public. So, the next portion we want to talk about is really that first recommendation of the high school in Natick. And this chart you've seen several different times in the past months where we're looking at our capacity issues. And the biggest capacity issue we're seeing in the southern end of the district is at our high school level. We are also seeing capacity concerns at the middle and elementary levels. So, the last time we chatted we were talking about a 1,900 student school high school and a 1,300 student high school. And that's what went out in the school perception survey. The feedback from the school perception survey was, generally speaking, "If you're going to build something, build it build it out now. Don't build something that you have to come back to us." So, we looked at that feedback and said, "We can build the core facility, the infrastructure for a 1,900 student high school, and then design the capacity at 1,500. So, not 1,300, but 1,500 looking at our projections would get us to that 10 at least that 10-year mark. So, the core facility, once again, would still be that 1,900 student with a 1,500 student capacity issues for the students. Um so, uh as I said, this would be Well, this would be built on the land that is owned in West Otsego, 174 acres. Uh 1,500 student capacity, design and built, as I said, with a 1,900 student core facility. So, if we did need to expand in the future, the core facility is done. It would be similar to the Rogers initial Rogers High School addition, where it was just a wing. You know, you'd be able to add that external wing at a much reduced cost compared to act going into the infrastructure. Uh southern boundary adjustments implemented for high school attendance would also include considerations for the middle school and elementary zones. We Our community has expressed a uh affinity for our feeder schools. You know, if you're in this elementary, you're going to go to this middle school, you're going to go to this high school. So, trying to maintain that feeder school system and alignment within our structures. Um and then, once again, finally, the building would be built according to our core standard. So, it would have an auditorium, it would have a gymnasium, it would have the athletic fields. So, it would be a high school. Oh. So, I forgot that one. I I used to sit right in front of my screen, so I can't quite see that far. So, um once again, the investment required, um this is a little bit lower than you saw last time with the 1,900 student high school, because we're not adding quite the same level of capacity per students. Um so, the investment would be at 195 million. Um the impact of the yes would obviously be the high school in Otsego. The impact of no would be redistricting redistricting the high school students to Elk River and Zimmerman schools. That would have impact on class sizes and classroom spaces. So, the second part of our discussions have been the recognition that there's a high school issue, but there's also a growing elementary {slash} middle school issue. So, the second portion of the solution was to look at E8 buildings. So, the new E8 building would be constructed in a similar fashion to the E8 that was built that is now Prairie View Elementary School when it was initially built as Prairie View Elementary Middle School as an E8 building. That would provide us with capacity for early childhood through eighth grade. And in addition to that, the addition on Hassan Elementary would allow us to maintain some of the southern boundary line boundary lines that exist for the Hassan and Rogers communities. So, I'll read the top line this first system so I don't forget it. So, we're looking at an E8 solution early childhood through eighth grade. This investment would be roughly $98 million. This would be in eastern Otsego on land that the district owns. And then once again, the impact of no would be redistricting E8 students to Elk River and Zimmerman schools with impacts to class size and classroom spaces. So, some more details about it. As I said, it would be built on the 38 acres in eastern Otsego, land that the district already owns. It would be a transitional build that eventually could either evolve into a middle school or an elementary school if needed somewhere in the future. Uh the southern boundary adjustments implemented for the high school attendance zones would also be held in consideration for this new building. Um and this new building right now would be in the [clears throat] Hassan Elementary Rogers Middle School attendance zone, which is where we're seeing the largest stress of capacity. Um The addition onto Hassan Elementary supports both Rogers and Hassan growth and establish boundaries while maintaining early childhood programming specific to the Rogers community. Uh without successful referendum vote, the Hassan addition could be done through a more taxpayer impactful lease levy option. Next, we have our education center. Um so, this would be our federal setting for ALC building. This is not new information. You've seen this before, the solution details. So, this new construction would be built on the site of our current Ivan Sand campus. It would get us in compliance with our regulations for serving our students with disabilities. And it would be designed to appropriately address the needs of all of our learners. So, you can see the list there of who would be served under um in within that facility. So, we'd have multiple programs located there. It would include our federal setting for behavior programs that are currently located at Meadowvale and Vandenberg Meadowvale and Vandenberg, our federal setting for communicative disorder programs. These are students who are currently being served in our traditional schools who really have a need for federal setting for programming. Our 18-to-22-year-old transition program, so these are our students who are currently served here at Compass in our program as well as uh another set of students who we don't have space for here that are being served in our traditional high schools. And it would also include all of our alternative learning center or Ivan Sand students. So, if you go to the next slide, there is a breakout of the numbers. Um so, you can see how those numbers have fluctuated um from the time that we started this conversation back in April of '25 through our anticipated numbers for the '26-'27 school year. So, when you look at adding up all of those highly specialized programs for students with disabilities in addition to our Ivan Sand population, uh the total comes to 206 students. We would be building the facility for room for growth because this is an area that we continue to see our our student count going up in and would want to be mindful of that. So, the facility would be built to to be able to handle 200 to about 300 students. Um all right, the next portion of this is improvements in our career and technical education program. So, Darren spoke to this in the survey results at all three of our traditional high schools um at a cost of approximately $16 million. So, um programming and space improvements to Elk River High School in career and technical education. So, we have um a lot of programming and um looking to update our space there as well as building additions at Rogers High School in Zimmerman to expand um programming in this area. It ensures that our programming can um remain competitive as you probably are aware, neighboring districts also have referendums in place um that where they're asking their voters to update their programming and we want to maintain um a competitive edge in this. These are some of our most popular programs at the high school level and um our students really benefit from this. I just um as a side note um and I think maybe Andy did as well, received an email today about a student who received a huge scholarship um from one of our local businesses a few years ago and had great success. I don't know if you were on that email, um but our community really supports these programs as well and our students really excel in them. We want to maintain that. Um if you go to the next slide, um this is also safety updates at Zimmerman Middle School and Rogers Middle School. These are our two schools that do not have the main office located right outside um right as at the front entrance. They're actually located in the center of the building. So, um part of this plan is to locate the main office right as you come into the building, um and really um as part of our safety. So, the verified entry and check-in right as you come into the school as at each of our other schools, um as part of the safety piece and including upgrading our visitor management at all those schools as well. If we If this doesn't pass, we would we could do this again as a more expensive option to the voters um with the taxpayer lease levy option. I Man, before we get into the money, which is everybody's favorite part, I just want to acknowledge that these decisions are difficult. They're even more difficult when we acknowledge the fact that all of this money comes from someone else's hard-earned dollar. So, every bit of this, whether it means running our school or asking for more schools, is someone else paying for it. So, we have a responsibility within that to make sure that we spend that money appropriately and what we [clears throat] bring forward as solutions takes into account what that is and also transparent that those what it's going to cost and what we believe it's going to cost us in the So, just to review again, when we went through all those slides, 195 million of that is the new high school. 155 million of that is everything else that we talk about, including safety upgrades and CTE upgrades in all three of them, basically. There is a capital projects levy that goes with this for $9 because when we open two buildings, we have to be able to operate the two buildings. So, if that might get you really uncomfortable for everybody, that costs money to operate. Next slide. So, what we've done in this is we look at monthly and then we look at annually. If you recall, our annual or our average household is $400,000 inside of our district. We want to acknowledge and while we have all these numbers here, is that some people are above that and some people are below that. This gives you a better idea of what that would look like in your home. So, we have $400,000 for this whole thing would be $35. That includes $35 a month. That includes the $195 million high school, the $155 million rest of it and then the operating cost that goes with that. And then if you go to the next slide, this is what that looks like in residential non-homestead single family units and then commercial non-homestead single family. So, we are incredibly grateful. The the 5,000 response that we got from our community is the by far the largest response that we've had from our community providing feedback to us. So, we are very grateful for that feedback and wanted to really make sure that our recommendation represented what we really heard as we got the the feedback there of please make it a long-term solution so that it's not something that's going to be a routine ask to come back and have to ask for additional upgrades in the future, but also be mindful of what that tax impact really looks like to our community. So, this recommendation secures our facility needs for the next decade providing fiscal predictability and ensuring we won't need to ask voters for additional bond funds until at least 2036. I would wrap up by saying just to just to be super clear, we went from the 1900 solution. That was the solution obviously that stood out in the survey to us. But we what we also heard through the survey is that this is an expensive ask. And I think that's why we, as we've looked at this in the recommendation to build the core infrastructure to 1900, so it isn't such a heavy lift if if and when we have to go to 1900, we're not we're not going through the whole commons area and the cafeterias and the loading docks, right? That would all be done as part of this build. So again, that is the change in this recommendation that you've seen from the 1900 back to the 1500 solution. Um we believe it lines up aligns with this survey really well and I think I think it's a really important to this board and to all of us to say we want to do what the survey tells us, right? We would want to bring you a solution that aligns with what our community uh feels really strongly about. The team has unpacked this in detail in multiple different ways and we've weighed a lot of different options. We also have our uh facilities team partners in the front row here if we have questions about, you know, costs and building timelines and those things, they're here as well. And with that, our team will stand for questions. We'll open our notebooks and be quiet and give you a chance to speak. I have a question for Darren as well. I do have a question for Darren. Yes. Okay. So when you the difference between question number one and the the question where you had the bond referendum support that was weighted. Can you I'm trying to instead of breaking it down in a whole bunch of little questions, just asking you a general question so you can maybe answer them all at once. So I like what's the difference between question number one and that bond referendum question? Because what I'm looking at is On that bond referendum question they had an opportunity to say not neither if I remember correctly. >> Yes. So the weighted average does take into account people who didn't want it at all. Absolutely. So is there a reason we don't do a weighted app Why do you not do it on question number one as well? Is it more important because they learned more through the survey to do it on that? We we don't apply the formula when it comes down to once we put a tax impact in front of the res line. So, the others are guiding principles. They're kind of speed bumps along the survey journey. So, remember we we just said, "Would you support a new high school?" Right. Measure that. No need to weight that because that's just a general concept. Then we ask them size preferences. Again, that's all well and good, but you saw how inflated the not sures were without a tax impact chart. So, we wait until we put the tax impact chart in front of the voters. Then we apply the formula to provide you as precise a projection as possible. So, you could do all of this good work here by trying to You know, our our company slogan is we measure what matters, but it really should be, "Please listen to your data." Because we don't like to do projects unless the board listens to their data. Our data's 94% predictive of vote. It doesn't mean 94% passage rate because our mission we don't do our mission to pass referendums. Our mission is to get you data so you can plan based on what your community tells you. So, the 94% is a prediction rate. If we say it's going to fail, it failed at a 94% rate in our 24 years. If we say it's going to pass, it's passed that at a 94% predictive rate. In there, that 6% one you may be wondering what happened in that 6%? Well, sometimes something changed. Maybe a house was reassessed. Or maybe there's some growth that took an edge off. We've been wrong to the yes and the no side, but we really pride ourselves on whatever your data tells you, please plan around that because we really pride ourselves in gathering good information for you so you can make decisions. And we've had districts so to speak not listen to the data or almost betray the the the tone of what you've heard from your community, and it's gone very poorly for that board and that district administration because then the residents come back and say you were always going to do this. And the survey was just kind of a PR scheme and we don't like to be a part of that. We pride ourselves in truly just being a research firm that tells you when is the right time. We've had to tell multiple districts in Minnesota now is not the right time. You don't have enough votes to do this, so don't even put on the ballot because it'll make you look kind of tone deaf. So that's why we got so precise with that census data and that waiting formula when we got down to giving them an option of option one, option two, either neither not sure. And you saw that not sure is flattened out. 47% [clears throat] yes, 42% no. 11% in that in in that not sure range. But given our formula if you were asking me to take a stance on behalf of our formulas of research we that margin of error of 1.44 that I talked about at the very beginning really comes into play here. You're not quite there. If you add 1.44 every margin of error on the side of that 47.5% yes you wouldn't quite be there. So quite honestly what is proposed here really feels like this board uh it's a board solution that would be listening to your data. They don't want a 1,300 uh the student building that's kind of a short-term band-aid for 3 to 5 years. But the 1,900 student building um I read every comment in the survey by the way. By the way, there's thousands. We staffed this project in a manner so that I can own this and read every through every comment and pull out themes for you. The number one comment was property tax impact is just a bit too much. It's too expensive. There are others that are saying please do something for the long solution. That was in the top three or four is do stuff don't do a band-aid again. Do something that's going to have some staying power. There's some skeptic skepticism about whether the enrollment uh was really going to project out as as projected because they're all projections. So, what is proposed here from our standpoint of of what we project for you seems to check a lot of the boxes in a manner that the board would be listening to the survey data. Um every solution here is wrapped into what what we learned from 4,858 voters. I'm going to say um so, we didn't have like a over 50% like yes, we support this. Did not. No, we have 47.5% yes. The real big factor there and we have I will tell you this, Mindy. We have had districts where they're at a a number like that and they say, "We're going to put it on the ballot anyway and we're going to really educate the community more deeply on on that to try to get some of those 11% to side of of yes. And we can live with that because it's close, particularly in smaller communities where the margin of error is plus or minus 5 or 6%. Your margin of error is tighter, so on your behalf, I we didn't we we did research on this with our research department. We didn't feel comfortable taking a stance that your voters have told you absolutely build that 1,900 student high school. The data wasn't there. Particularly where we see the 11% unsure. We're the number we're seeing closer to is about 10% coming to the side of yes right now. So, you grab one off of the parents and one off the non-parents and staff, that gets you around that 49 range. But, it's not quite there. It's it's tight. All we can our job is to provide you the data so you can plan around it um and it was pretty pretty uh, exciting to see how this proposal kind of threads the needle on all the concerns and all the demands that your community is facing. I have a question, you know, back when you talked about would you recommend the district, you know, where it's we fell at 6.48%? How does that compare to other districts in this in the state? Oh, oh, the uh, the the closing question. >> Yeah, the recommend. Right at the average. Um, right at the average. Maybe slightly below average, but um, but again, I've also had to give reports where it's at a 5.3, 4.9, 5.1. So, that 6.48 um, is is very very very acceptable score. Particularly, I would tell you again, 80% of the districts nationwide are 2,000 or less kids. Uh, and we do a lot of projects like that. Did a project in North Dakota where a district of 79 children. Um, the bigger the district, um, harder to have a it's very hard to have a super super high satisfaction factor because you're overseeing 23 sites, 23 principals, all those kinds of things. So, I was honestly for a district your size, >> [laughter] >> very excited about that net promoter closing zero to 10 question. And and and because uh, it uh, fares very well um, in a range of school size that is that is uh, more challenging, quite honestly. Any other questions, Jen, or other members of the board? Yeah, I had I had uh, you know, one of the things you mentioned, you know, was the referendum promises, you know, back in '19 with that referendum. You know, it's I think of a business sometimes, you got a 10-year plan, and then COVID hits and then everything blows up. Right. And so if you don't change your plan, what why work a plan that maybe is not You know what I'm saying? What's your perception on that? I guess that's a pun. But but what what's your thoughts on that? You know, compared to other districts and how they've dealt with those similar issues. Can you ask that again? I'm not exactly sure what you >> Okay, I'm sorry. I'll rephrase it. So you had comments that we did keep the referendum promises. >> Sure. And have you experienced that with other districts? >> And and how do you deal I mean, how do they dealt dealt with it? You know, what were the issues? You know, just a summary, not a The bottom line is anytime that you come forward with a a plan or a commitment and you don't follow through on that plan or commitment um it erodes trust. And when you erode trust, then it makes all the the accompanying questions in years ahead that much tougher. Let me give you an example. Um I didn't even know what school perceptions was until 2014. It's my second year as superintendent. I'm a 41-year-old kid, didn't have any idea what I was doing. All I knew was everybody's screaming at me about gym space. Yelling at me about not enough gym space, not enough gym space. And so we met with facilities and met with the board and one of the things that came out of that was, well, it's because the main gym is booked for 8 weeks during the musical. And so we talked to an architect and they came up with a solution that, you know you got one elementary school with a cafa- cafa-gymatorium. That's where I was elementary principal where the tables flip up on the wall so you can play basketball and you flip them down to feed the kids. He said, "You build a gym there and you devote a space to fine arts frees up all of a sudden you have way more gym space. So, we met as a board and they were really fighting about they did not want to put a performing arts center. Felt fancy. It felt felt like it that it was it was a luxury, not a need. There was a lot of public opinion about that we needed that, that they wanted that. So, we said, "How can we find out?" Well, we hear the school perceptions. So, we did a survey and the board said, "Two board members are dead set against that." And before we made a final decision of about the survey, we all agreed, "Whatever the survey says, we're going to do." You may not want the performing arts center, but what about if the community's asking for it? Well, guess what? They They voted for it. Wasn't without reduced scope, kind of came in around 52-48 for us. We took a balcony off, made it stadium style, shaved about 15% off the cost. Mhm. They voted got voted through 60-40. And even those reluctant board members said, "I didn't really want this space. That's what the the voters wanted and that's what our our projection of needs for all the youth programming told us. Mhm. So, that's my example of you need to listen to your data and if you deliver on the promises the best you can and and and with that, um, enrollments are at an all-time high, open enrollments are at an all-time high, where everything is very sound in that district because now the facilities the standard of the teaching taking place in the the facilities that serve all the programs well. Got you. Does that make sense? Mhm. Yeah, [clears throat] yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And you know, on the top five comments, um, you have one in there like, uh, fiscal management. Did Did you get any themes of what people are thinking? Um, there were there were some comments in there about, uh, past financial promises that didn't materialize and and I took that as some of the previous bond asks and in the fact that they they they kept piling on it. So, that's why when Corey came forward with This is the first time I've seen this presentation myself. I I was excited because again having someone who read all the comments and talked with Andy intimately about the comments. You know, I think sometimes people think they don't really read comments. We do. We take our We We take our To be a good third party for you, we read all the comments. We study all the data points. Sure. [snorts] So, there's some worries about There's always concern about is there too much administration? That's I've never I I do I've done hundreds of these in my four years with the company. There's always concerns about administration, administrative spending is the most things. But, sometimes there's complaints about um priorities. Um athletics has never tested more poorly than it does right now. In these economic conditions, people are kind of said sports is is not our top priority right now. CTE is a top priority. Secure entrances are our top priority for those old buildings. Four of our five in my district back in 2015 when I did my first survey didn't have secure entrances. And that was part of our our referendum is to make sure every building had the same security as Addison Elementary where you buzz the visitors in once they identify themselves and can be seen on the camera. Um all those kinds of things are priority. Athletics are not a top priority. So, when they see when your your voters and taxpayers see um spending on athletics and those kinds of things, I think that that was some of the the criticisms of our priorities. Got you. Because you know what? Athletics get a a lot of it a lot of attention and during tough economic times Mhm. Um you know, this survey was launched during a about as tough of an uh economic conditions we've had in the last couple of years. Certainly, COVID was a tough economic time and now um you know, everything's up again. Um as we try to sort out some international affairs. too. Sure. I just don't see the uh you know, the mismanagement, not like on the state level. It's a whole different deal. No. No. But I mean, I you know, you'd think there's like massive waste, and I don't see it. Right. I I just think that that that that is uh for those folks that mark neutral, Mhm. there's just assumptions because when they hear about waste from some districts, sometimes all school districts get lumped all together. I mean, I I read those those same comments in my survey uh back in 2015-16, and I I I get it. I get it. We watch every dollar we can, but also want to provide a optimum learning environment for the children. So, it's a trying to thread a needle there, too, with the spending. Attract attract talent to your district with with attractive pay scales. Maybe share with you last summer, my first year in '04 as an elementary principal, I had 675 first-grade applicants for a job. My last year as superintendent, we had a first-grade opening, there were 22. Talent pool is not just uh short of plumbers, electricians, we're now short of teachers. Thank you. Can you talk a little bit more about the the unsure? So, my question So, when this came back at 47.5, I mean, the community's really split. I kind of knew we were going to be a little split. At 40 If that was over 50%, it'd be an easier decision for me. So, at 47.5, it's still more than the no's, but we didn't make the 50%, but then we have that it it drops to 11 after they see the tax implications for the unsure. But, what's your experience with the unsure, meaning are those likely to not vote at all if they're on the referendum? Are they Are they more likely to vote no? Because if they were more likely to vote no, that bumps it up. If they're more likely to vote yes, So, what I tell you is, again, two worlds, pre-COVID, more information, and I live with more information. I explained to folks, they said, "You're going to have six concerts a year in a $9.9 million auditorium?" And then I listed all the elementary, all the community orchestra, all the things. I said, "This will be used 137 times a year." And all the people were like, "I'm a yes now." I was a no. So, education can change those unsures or those sometimes a no to a yes. But, what we have found post-COVID is that there's so much frustration with the school management got much worse after COVID. Um Esther dollars. Um some of the stimulus experiences that went on at the federal level, people are just just really, really concerned about how people how the spending is is taking place. And again, that 1/3 did not hold up. We used it first couple projects after COVID. 5% of the unsures came to the side of yes. And it really threw off our projection. And my boss, the guy that started this company, it's interesting. He's a plastics engineer. And he's You then he went to work as a special ed paraprofessional. Um because he wanted to do something with kids. And then he said, "How can I marry my engineering brain with something that helps kids?" And he invented this company. And he just said, "I I pride ourselves on providing accurate data." So, he says, "Let's just drop that 1/3 unsure thing and let's just go with the yeses and count all the unsures as being a no." And what we're finding is some now, because the number's just so so low, I think it's Wisconsin and Minnesota and I swear no. Um some of them could be convinced, but I just don't know if that's measurable enough that we could statistically say to you you can count on on them to the yes side. It just that just it just goes against the research department. We tracked every vote that we represented for for our 24 [clears throat] years, and particularly post-COVID, they've been drilling down, and that unsure number this is is not been very very much to the yes side. Granted, it's conservative. Yeah. It's very conservative, but we we'd rather be more conservative for you so you can look at other options than be sunshine and daisies and say, "Well, I don't really think you could get this." We do That's not how we operate. We Part of what's tied to that that also was we didn't talk a whole lot about, and it is to be expected um because we just put out a referendum after referendum 15 years ago. But, the question that received like a 2.0, we didn't make the 2.5 on trust and how money is managed. So, I'm wondering if the new presentation that we saw listing the survey saying it seemed like everyone agreed we need a big high school or we need we need to fix the problem. Um if we're going to fix it, do it right for 10 years, but we have sticker shock. It's kind of what I saw from you. So, then I saw that we're going to try and bring down the sticker shock and give you everything you can for more. How does that relate with that low trust? Because at first I see the low trust, I'm like, "Well, that's going to make those no's that we just discussed or the unsure's no." But, if we can show we listened and build the trust, do you think I know this is a huge hype, but I would think that would make some of those no's more yes. >> we we tracked that. We tracked that and honestly, your support of your fiscal management score and your support for the project, the yeses, both go up. For every significant uh dollar amount that you're reducing your ask. It's kind of common sense. The less you ask for, the more people are going to respect what you're asking for and more likely to vote yes, but we have a full-time PhD on our staff who just loves numbers and he he's he's he wrote his his doctorate on what factors influence a a referendum passing, and that is listening to your data and asking for only what you need, not necessarily what you want. Thank you. So, by all means, um if those are saying if you'd have come back and have said 390 or bust, you know, 1900 student or bust, I could see where your the view of fiscal management would be like, they didn't hear us. But I didn't come into this thinking you'd go there, but the fact that that score that that fiscal management score is not available, got to believe some of the people that aren't that in a in a low manner would say ah this new survey they're really applying everything they learned and bringing it back to us so that they a new plan based on our community votes. Which is exactly this is textbook to what we'd like to see. Quite honestly, um we never talked about other districts' data. We have a district that they that we knew they would have supported a number cuz what we did is kind of a tax tolerance model. We said for this amount we could do this, for this amount we could do this, and for this amount we could do this. Like a it's a menu. Um and our owner represented that account and he said, you can get to that middle end number. And the superintendent and board said thanks, nice presentation, we're going to ask for the top number anyway. And really, our boss was bummed out because he said, this is kind of like makes us look silly because we we gave them a recommendation and they they're blatantly against that recommendation. Well, actually what happened was worse. They put it on the ballot, it failed. A year later they came back and asked for the amount that we predicted would would pass >> [clears throat] >> and it failed. Three years later, they got the lowest amount that they tested. And three years of construction inflation costs later, that that lowest dollar amount didn't buy the even promised at the minimum level. So, I guess I tell that anecdotal story anonymously so you can learn from it because that comes back to that fiscal management trust. How you're spending your dollars, Scott, it really is on the line if you don't listen to the data. And show the community that the survey wasn't a road exercise, that's actually your road map for next steps. So, your your professional advice is given this because something you said to us months ago has stuck out in my mind is that if if you have you have the survey and you'll make a recommendation and if you go a different route, it erodes trust to the point where it's going to take a decade to regain that trust. So, do you feel that in your experience we're addressing that issue? That if we were to go for a referendum First of all, am I hearing you that your recommendation given the numbers is that there is support? I would tell you that I I can only project that support for the project would go up now because you lowered the cost. That is number one. Number one theme in the comments. Right. And you've addressed the long-term solution by not Okay, we're just going to go with the 1,300. That didn't have support. That's 36% support. You found it a nice in between with a framework where if we do get to that 1,900, which people are skeptical skeptical about in the comments, you have that wing that can kick out in very short order, fairly economically, if those projections hold up for enrollment. So, I this is about as the intentional as I've I've seen a board um discussion go as far as planning around the data we gathered. We're really using the survey tool to be your the the guiding principle for what you decide to do going forward, yes. Okay. So, you think that a referendum would pass? So, what I can't do is say that to you because I would have to survey 31,860 homes again and say, "Okay, we've got a new proposal for you. React to this." >> Yeah, I'm sorry. So, what are you doing tomorrow? Not even Not Okay. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Not I have to survey. Not with the new stuff. I just I know we had two presidents. So, forget all the new then that we're pivoting and adjusting. Just given the data, if we wouldn't have pivoted, what would have been your recommendation? >> would have been do not put it My recommendation would have been don't put it on the ballot at the 47.5. Okay. That's not That would not be listening to your voters. Even because of Again, we want to be very clear that those unsures are not sliding over to yeses. So, you're not going And because you your community pounced on the survey and had almost 5,000 responses, 10 times what we need to have reliable data, 5% more than the percent that we cut off to say it's reliable data, you're at 47.5 and and it's it's it's it's it's close, but it's not there. And we we huddled as a team and studied the couple of different census reports. Um we have a 2020 report and we contrasted that with 2024 just to see and um and got you the most current data we could for every angle we could look at this because we knew you were so close. And I know this is a big big decision for you and it was so clear that they want a bigger school. Yeah, if I could just add to that, too. One of the conversations we had through this is what is our history been based on survey and how it came out? We have typically in the district come out higher than what the like survey Those surveys have varied over time. We've typically come out higher on the on the on the support side. So, as as Aaron said, like 47.5, you're not quite to 50, but if you if it comes out a little better, if you were to were to move some unsure to yes, we think it may tip over. Plus, add that with the recommendation to lower that high school size a little bit, make it more affordable, is why we kind of got to this point, right? We think that there is darn close enough support to do it, but with those changes we thought maybe it would be enough to to educate our folks and say, we have a we we have a problem that has to be solved. How do you want to solve it? And the impact of no and impact of yes is really the the community's choice. I honestly think it's way too much. I think that our communities can't afford it right now. Maybe if we reduce what we're asking for and do it in stages. Our neighbor next door just lost their referendum twice in a row, for instance, so I think we have to keep that in mind and ignore perhaps that's the the people that don't want the referendum always come to vote. For that, that's who shows up. And I don't want us to educate the public by threatening them with a lease levy or any scare tactic like that about taxes. I would never personally do that. And as with the safety updates, I think that's very important. But is there any way there's a grant for that? For safety, wasn't there like with the legislative session, no? No, that's probably >> Yeah, there Yeah, there are times that they that that the legislature will put out safety grants. One of the issues that we have continued to lobby against on safety grants is that if they're competitive grants. So, I I don't know how you can prioritize safety as competitive, but they They done that in the past. So, you have to go state your case to get the money to say that we need safety upgrades more than a neighboring school district or another school district. So, grants would be something that would be not an option at this time. That doesn't mean the legislature wouldn't do something in the future. And then was there a reason why they were built that way? I mean, I know we don't have a very diverse superintendent with us, but Yeah, yeah, I'm speculating. But back then and and still to this day to to a large extent what we can weigh into is, you know, schools are built with the education of kids first and always have been and always will be in my opinion. So, when you look at those buildings, when you put that office location in the center of the building, there's a ton of advantages in that, right? Proximity to classrooms when you need support, kids traveling across the building to go to the office when they're being picked up, those kind of things. So, my guess is, if I was a betting person, that's why it was designed that way. But now in the era of school safety and all that's all that's happened going all the way back to common, this is the new kind of the new setup. They're bringing those offices up to the main entrance. So, that's likely why you saw that design and you probably know that Truman uh Middle High and Rogers Middle School are are almost identical buildings. So, that was the same design and the same built at the same time. We do this all over the country in the end. Safety on these older buildings, you know, we see 70, 80, 100-year-old buildings, just safety was not the num- was not the worry at that time. The old elementary school where I was principal, the office was right next to the library, right in the door of the building, right in the center of the school. So, you could watch kids checking out books as you're checking them into school and and sick room was right there next to the library. It's just changed. Everything's changed. Schools in that time didn't have secure entrances. It just they weren't built at the way they are now cuz we we didn't have the needs and the concerns that that were that we focus on in terms of keeping our safety as a primary concern for our students. A hub of every almost every project we do is as I said tech ed, but also secure front entrance. Yeah. And uh that the capital tech that was talked about was funds. Uh modern camera systems to monitor behaviors and safety and all those kinds of things. It's just it's just almost become non-negotiable. That's what people want. They want safe safe schools for their kids. It's sad that we have to be there, but that's where we are. It is. Yeah. I mean, would we consider changing like how are we building the schools? Are we doing Is there a way we could reduce the I guess a question for Wald. Would we do less so we can maybe pass this referendum? Would we not do the glass? I'm not a fan of the glass. Uh see-through classrooms. I can't stand it. I don't think it's safe. Now, building with just a wall, would that lower the cost of the school? I'm kind of wondering are we going to get other bids? Are we already set on the plan or can we shave dollars off that way and then we can educate our students with less fancy furniture. Uh I mean, as as of right now it's a it's a cost per square foot based on the guidelines. I think that during our process all those conversations come up. I I I think we would definitely entertain how much glass goes in every space, but as far as a substantial cost savings, that alone would not make much of any that at all. Oh, okay. >> But yes, there's definitely opportunities to to shave money here and there. It would be weighing priorities versus standards and just educational delivery quality, etc. But we always have those conversations. and we always run through cost exercises and prioritize you know the core standards that the district has. And there is no final design that's going to Yeah. Okay. No, that's right. Yeah. So there's no like blueprint that's being given to anybody or anything like that. This would be a comprehensive process to say what would this building look like and how would you do that? I will say that we we we as a company try to stay independent when it comes to contractors and things of that nature. But I I we work with groups that are excellent. We feel like we have to be outspoken about that and we've done projects with Waldon. They're excellent. And they're We've got a very very big project over in New Richmond, Wisconsin, which is also driven by enrollment and it's a beautiful site and uh really was uh the right solution for that growing leading district over in Western Wisconsin. We've We've really enjoyed projects with them because they're so creative and nimble when it gets to the design and hitting all the district's priorities. So I just comment on the phased approach that you had. We have unpacked that a lot to say what if you did this in a series of referendums? I think we we went back to I think the goal from the from the beginning of this is to get a 10-year solution. Right? And I would I would probably argue that yes, it is expensive, but it's never going to be cheaper than it is now. Cuz when you phase this later, you have the cost of inflation when it comes Those things will get more expensive. So I think that's a factor too. I think the ball is to be number now and then we feel that we got it. Um but it is not going to be cheaper. I would say the other thing is how do you rank what's most important? They're all important. Um Garrett, thank you for the information. I think you put together very well the survey. I appreciate it. I appreciate that you take the um undecided and put them in the middle so we can interpret that as we see it as board members. Um appreciate what you put together. A lot of positive comments towards it. So thank you for that, sir. Um Corey, if you go to the last slide with the full dollar amount on this. So, the total that is projected now with all of those is where we at three 350 350, okay. So, Andy, have you and your team looked at if we do this project and we tie this in with LTFM and all of that, the cost savings that can be there? Obviously, if we're doing roofs on new buildings and we tie in additional ones, if we're doing HVAC, parking lots, etc., the dollars are set aside in LTFM, but the bigger we can group the projects, the economy of scale that will come. Um has the team only looked at these as stand-alone projects or have you looked at it district-wide over the course of these buildings? And that's a great question. Um we typically on projects will what I call braid funding LTFM. If we're going to be there, if we're mobilizing and going to go and do the project, we might also say, let's do the building at the same time as you're putting on the CTP addition, right? Right. That's an example. That's not a real thing, it's just an example, right? But we might say, this is the perfect time to braid that money together. You know that LTFM, we can't use LTFM to build new buildings. Like some people have said, don't don't you have all that LTFM money? How do you do that? You cannot use it to build new buildings. It has to be used to replace and and repair what you have already. We've also had some people say to us, you know, can't you save the money to try to to try to lower this cost? When you think about 350 million, it would be impossible to save that and probably irresponsible to save that much money than not putting it back into the classrooms. And that's I think that if if if I'm answering your question how that funding conversation is really done. No, I'm worried and how do you how do you get the money? No, more what I'm asking is us, so we got two new buildings going up, we got a half million square feet of asphalt. If we tie in three other buildings with it, will we see a three or five or eight percent savings, right? So, as we're doing projects, right, we can tie them in for economy of scale. So, we look at LTFM and say, "Okay, we have to HVAC these two buildings, plus we're doing two brand new buildings. We're going to lump some bids." Yes, LTFM is only for existing and this, but there is economy of scale in doing that. Absolutely. Right. And but with these projects though have only looked at standalone. So, if we took our next 5 to 8 years of LTFM, looked at it, could we in theory reduce if there was cost savings, right? Let's say we save 3% on a road for a couple million dollars, right? Parking lots, etc. I mean, if you go back to your team and look at what's coming down for LTFM in the 2 and 10 year, and look at this, could this be reevaluated above above a more conservative number, or is that something at this point is only speculation? Um my my fiscal brain, conservative brain, is to tell you I believe there's going to be savings like that. I don't think that you would plan to lower that number. I think when you step through these projects, you will realize savings because of what you just said. Combining asphalt projects together, we do that every year. There's a district-wide asphalt project where we get a we get a contractor that goes around, gets every site fixed, curbs, you know, fills potholes, does all of that. A grander scale would be when you're doing parking lots that you could lump them together, you you will you will get a better price. I would not feel comfortable saying let's lower the dollar amount with that in mind, but I do think there's there would be savings like that through the project. No, I appreciate that, and I know we've always done that in the past, and I appreciate that we did that with the last bond referendum, and it worked very well. So, um you know, when I look at the numbers that are in front of us at 47%, and we look at the undecided, and I think the explain to people what this really is, because in all reality, if we don't build new, and we redo district lines and boundary lines, we're still going to have to lease levy, and it is not going to take many dollars in this levy to hit that $400 per year on a $400,000 house. So, I think that would take a lot of people that would say, "Look, I don't want to pay any more tax." Because I'm one of those, too. But, if you're going to tell me, "Hey, you're going to charge me $400 a year on my house, and I'm going to give you $11 million worth of upgrades that are going to buy you 2 to 3 years." Or, if you vote yes, "We're going to take, you know, 300 and some million at $400 a year." Obviously, I'm going to look at that and say the best value for our dollar, right? So, I think that's where a lot of the education comes in. The few people I talked to through this, when you explain them to them, they're like, "Well, I don't like it either way, but yeah, why won't we build everything and have it done once?" So, I think that's where it's close enough to say, put it out to the taxpayers, and then we need to explain that to them. And if I could, Shane, one of the the the things we've tracked is when we've been wrong, 6% of the time with those projections, it's better than when board said, "Well, we launched a survey. Why do we need to do anything more?" You just wait until November and hold the vote. You have to be This is This initial survey is just putting some ideas in front of the community. Now, the the work gets down into drilling down and really talking to different municipalities, Rotary. On this PowerPoint that I provided you, that's your property. That is your show to take on the road and talk to different people and say, "We heard you. This is why we got this new plan put together by these gentlemen." Um you have to put next steps in front of them and communicate how you've listened. That That That is how you get to that finish line. If you just sit back and say, "We did the survey, we're done." That's where no matter how favorable our projections are, if you don't communicate next steps and continue to keep this in front of them and educate them the value of it, they may not show up to vote yes. Yeah. And then John Randy, one final question for you. So, if we look at our current net tax capacity where we're going to run a $400,000 house at $415 a year. At the rate we've grown on average over the next 10 last 10 years, is that 400 going to stay or is it going to diminish each year because our net tax capacity will grow? In other words, every house that goes online, we're still paying the same principal and interest, but over more houses, more dollars. So, all that's built into the cost at a very conservative nature, right? So, if I'm a taxpayer down the road, like mine's going to go up whatever that dollar amount is. Very conservatively, like I would say that's the most I'm going to pay. Just like our budget, we want it to come better, it's built to come better, hopefully. But we don't want to get out there and say it's going to be $415 and it ends up being $515 like that or roads trust, back to what Darren was saying. So, this is built like that's the top. Growth is built into it, but not probably not in total alignment with what we do as a as a district and how much we grow. Right. So, then again, you know, and again, I really appreciate all the conservative values, but we have conservative numbers on the cost to build everything. We have conservative survey results. We have a conservative amount of net tax capacity that we're growing. And based on the last one, we had all those same factors, it dropped off faster, it was approved, and how many dollars are left from the last bond referendum to finish up other projects maybe above and beyond? Jared, I'm available now. Yeah, there's a few million dollars left. >> Yeah, there's a few million dollars because of those those premises and projects go through 2019. So, we're finishing those projects now. Those projects will still get done with those funds available [snorts] from the last referendum. That money is closer to completion. And my point to that is that was really conservative estimating because if you look at what things were projected in 2018 when we put that together and then you run through COVID, I mean some product we've seen 30 to 80% increase. So, the fact that we put numbers together on that bond referendum, ran it through COVID, are still finishing the projects today and completing everything, you know, we have very conservative numbers. So, a lot of this is built in with the safety factors which again, I really appreciate and I think that's important because you know, God forbid uh another instant like COVID happens, we don't want to be short-sided and not be able to do everything on that list. But, overall, if the market, you know, maintains and we don't have any issues like COVID, there should [snorts] be no reason that we can't complete all these projects under budget and keep all those promises with taxpayers and the tax money. Speaking of bonds, all all sort of that's one more measure that's conservative with the bond issuance. Right. Yeah. That's always part of the formula in our surveys. We don't want to we'd rather under promise and over deliver on the bond borrowing rate, too, as we put together that chart for the business office. And I was going to add a comment to that, too, as as we've seen from history and in recent history, when we've taken those bonds out, forbid, we have seen savings come back to our taxpayers specifically from that. We have one of the highest credit ratings in the state, as high as we can be. We have accolades for you know, our financial team thanks to Andy Prior and John Now. And so, through that process and because of those ratings and because of the way this financial team has has managed our dollars and kept our promises and those things, like we have we have seen those come back that benefit went back directly to taxpayers. You guys can get details and numbers on those. I don't want to misquote, but those are things we've seen just in the last couple of years. So, those those again um, opportunities. Again, as the the market ebbs and flows in in those regards, but both processes have proven to be to our benefit as well. Yeah, I mean, this process is With with all of that, I'm more than comfortable putting out to the taxpayers and say, "You decide. Here's the information. Here's the facts of what a yes vote means, what a no vote means. Give the board direction on what we should do next, and I would be very comfortable directing the superintendent either way. Come back as a yes or a no, and say, "The people have clearly spoke. Here's the direction. It's time to roll it out." I'll just add to, Yeah, I I thank you for everyone in this process. Again, going back for a year, I've been, you know, critical of of ensuring, you know, the steps of the process and being involved in that. In my tenure on the board, I've been asked this question constantly, consistently. Um, is there going to be a Nazi High School? A lot. Um, and I will say, my initial response is, "Not necessarily in support of the Nazi High School." However, in the same statement, I would say, "But I will always look at the data and the numbers." And when the data and the numbers prove that to to be not be the direction that's right, um, I will listen to the data and the numbers. So, I'm critical of the process. I have asked questions. I have challenged those things. Um, not to give a certain response, but to ensure that where we are here today, and where we are in November, and what we put forward and and and and talk to our community about, is something I can absolutely, um, stand behind. So, the Hazel study, the task force, um, Joe's numbers, um, you know, the city the cities have provided numbers. They provided that data. And the growth is the growth is here and there's still opportunities for growth in other pockets. I think we will see that as the next 10 years rolls out and we see see what that looks like. I'm very comfortable with this recommendation based on survey results. With those adjustments, um it does allow us for a little flexibility to kind of seeing what what does come out in the next 7 8 10 years. You know, a lot of development infrastructure will happen in Otsego the course of these next 5 to 10 years. Um to do that we will continue to see growth in the Rogers area. It'll be interesting to see what different growth pockets may change and how things may develop both in Elk River and Zimmerman, too. Um you know, there's there's certainly opportunities in those in those communities. So Um you know, our our strategic plan I've gone back to multiple times with the course of this process in the last year is to ensure that we do have good access to the technologies, to programs, to facilities, to activities, access to those things rang loud and clear as part of that strategic plan. So, you know, going back to that Um feel feel good about continuing to move forward to do that education, to have those conversations, to answer some of the what-ifs, many of which we'll still figure out. Um and we have great people in place to figure those things out. Um one of the reasons I was, you know, the pri- the primary reason I was, you know, reluctant to do to to support it was because of the tax um the financial impacts it would have. Um I've said many times to many people um elementary schools and middle schools support that infrastructure, but a high school creates new infrastructure. So, I don't take that step lightly at all. Um the Otsego families um and Rogers families are royal families. So, like I take our community um seriously. Um and I see I see as I see them. So, um I'm excited for what the future brings. I'm excited for the growth, for the the families that are young and are going to see these benefits. I'm excited for our new families who choose to move to our communities >> [snorts] >> in any in any region of our communities um and feel good about where we're at given the the process. And that we've taken the data along the way and feedback from Chula Vista along the way to try to again match what the community is telling us, what the numbers are telling us, what the community the people are telling us, and really looking at that to say, "This is This is really putting our best foot forward for the next 10 years to support our community across our community." It's not a question per se, but more of a statement there. You're You guys look like you need a question. We're getting We're giving Barry all the attention. I want to make sure you're awake. Easy simple question. That includes all the sports facilities. The number you So, when you build that out, it's just minus some of the high the classroom wings to save a little money. Yeah, essentially I think a really good way to look at it is as we did a lot of that study with Rogers, you know, the the first time we did the add-on of the wing, the infrastructure was there. Part of what we're having such a hard time with in this last proposal of doing the add-on was um it's not only uh a a new middle school being put on top of the high school, it also meant we had to add in um cafeteria space, additional locker room space, the additional parking. That infrastructure really wasn't there. So, that's really the concept here is we would be positioning ourselves ready for those types of infrastructure being placed so that minimal impact would just be to add those additional wings. I think one of the parts I found really interesting going through the Rogers study, too, that Wold was able to help us kind of identify was um there is all of the the challenges of um additions on buildings. And when you have to do so much of that infrastructure, it's nearly impossible to not have an effect the student day. Um because it has to happen during a certain period of time. Um whereas when you can have all those pieces in place and you're just adding on those additional wings, that's a lot easier to separate off that additional growth. Um so it it was a very insightful, I think, in in the recommendation from Wold in this kind of a concept to say if that infrastructure's already there, it is the little it's the minimal financial impact to do that increase at that time, but also the student experience impact when we're ready to make that addition because we don't have to shut down part of the cafeteria, we don't have to shut down part of the locker rooms. Um they're ready to go. It's just a matter of that new wing. Or however that addition classroom looks. All right. So, if Can you put up the last slide that shows the new tax implication? This one? Yeah, it looks like we dropped it considerably by doing this. So, I appreciate you guys for listening to the survey and putting that back together. How do you feel about the sports things? Because the surveys came back, there was a concern about sports. It's a big in our community. What's the feeling on how it would affect it if we save the money by not doing the sports facilities at this time? So, kept combined sports, build the school, build everything out, have the space, you could add the football stadium later. I mean, it's I can probably speak to that from the data point of other projects, um if you take away an element uh you could lose some area, yes. >> Okay. So, again, you can talk in scope, size for academic programming all you want, but if you're going to take it it's going to be the the fine arts people who are going to be bummed if you scale back auditorium, there's going to be Make no mistake, sports still drive our society. There's some people are just tired of the spending, but you know a wild needed a new stadium now, but it turned out you know that it it it never stops, right? But I think your families in Otsego are craving a a building that has comparable facilities to the other high school. So, it's I think the the scope of academic learning spaces commensurate with enrollment is the right solution. I would not take a way an element otherwise, and you're still not listening to your data cuz you said yes because what you told them is it's going to have these core these core principles, [snorts] and your only only moving part was enrollment. Got you. Makes sense. Thank you. Can I add a dollar figure to that? Every year we wait it adds 5 to 10% increase in cost. Say that again. Every year that we wait it adds 5 to 10% increase in cost. So, if we're going to have a $200 million high school Well, I don't know actually say it right. That means that if we wait another year, right? We're going to increase that cost 10 to 20 million dollars. So, if we take away parts of that school, whether that's a auditorium and a stadium or whatever, we're eventually going to need it. That goes up 1 to 2 million dollars a year costing the taxpayer dollars. Now, yes, there's more to spread out, but ultimately, we're taking more of our taxpayer dollars by waiting, and it goes against what they've told us, which is don't come ask every year. Right. And and that when we did our 2019 bond referendum, that was what we heard loud and clear. Make the district whole. Right. Look at every facility and say, "Based on the number of students, how many parking stalls does it have? How many baseball fields? How many What size is the auditorium? What size should it have?" And have a standard because our predecessors, and again, I understand we never thought we'd see this kind of growth, right? All the way back from early 2000. They did things in stages like to save dollars. Again, I can appreciate that. But when we went back and did them in 2019 to make all the buildings whole, it cost a lot more. Right? We know sports are a big thing. We just approved a resolution for girls flag football. We know that we need more space for sports. We know that that's important to families, especially in a community like Otsego that is growing as fast as they are. Right? I mean, it is going to be important. I reassure you that those facilities would be used if this was approved and we started on them right away and got them in, they would be used immediately by all different groups. Would Would that not drive more participation in students? Because you'd have more programming available. Just right now Rogers is It wouldn't It wouldn't some sports or core sports would have kind of duplicated versions of those. >> But you'd have more students involved. Potentially. Potentially. I mean, there's a kind of a plan of kind of get more chain participation. But the idea is yeah, that if you have some some continued growth, those youth systems would grow too as the as the community grows. And then there'll be, you know, those other non-traditional some of the other sports would still be considered. What would Otsego have enough uh and or Rogers, you know, separately to to house their own teams or where would those co-ops make the most sense? I'm thinking just the opportunity for students would be greater. I mean, this this go around with the charter. Well, I was going to say it should be, right? You would For the core sports it would be because again, you duplicate more sports. Yes. So, and then maybe Elk River and Rogers would be in the same section as Would that That is not something that is in our control. That is a high school league. That's a high school level process. Yep, I'll take it. Um you would All of that Well, I I'll tell you how it works in terms of what class It's really their class, not necessarily their section. They're two different processes. Okay. Um class The class that you play in in whatever sport you're in is based on enrollment. So, you would likely see based on the numbers that we've had, based on Joe's numbers and you know, the numbers we work with, you would likely see just football, for example, would be similar classes between Elk River, Rogers, St. Cloud would have to probably go into it a little bit, but depending on how that goes, it would be very shortly. Zimmerman currently is in a class lower, again, based on enrollment size, not That makes sense. So, sections are just geographically who they pair you up with to play in the post season. Oh. There's conferences and sections and different things like that. So, that's more of a geographical thing. Elk River and Zimmerman participate in like section 7 AA, which can go up to Grand Rapids and some of those. Rogers has They've traditionally been in five since I It depends on the sport. It's kind of all over the place. But it's geographically driven more than more than size. I was going to say. Okay. John said play sharing factors are spot on. We had a district that built a new elementary school in '02. 9.8 million. They proposed a new elementary school 20 years later in 2022, in my first year of the company, it was 48 million. Five times the cost in 20 years. That's just the reality of those two decades of rising costs. Any final questions? Yeah, I have some more. So, for the level four and Compass Kids, what would we do with the space with that here if we remove the Compass program? Yeah, that would free up some space. Yeah, I would tell you that the space here continues to be at a premium, right? We cannot have enough conference rooms and places to put community meetings, obviously our own internal meetings, too. Um so, that those spaces would be used for that purpose. And I think that should be a greatly appreciated thing. It's hard to find space in this building, right? We kind of joke about it internally. Okay. Okay. When we have a conference room, it's full all week, right? So, people tend to have meetings here because it's a nice facility, too. I asked for a conference room, and Andy made me work in my car. >> [laughter] >> We had our last facility meeting, and we were all sitting in that little room. Our last facility meeting, we got huddled up all in that little room, and you know, it was like 30 minutes. So, I mean, it's you know, we utilize this building. You guys really utilize it to the nth degree. And I think if we can open up to the public to or to the to those community integrated meetings, it's great. Um for operational costs, I would like to see what that costs for the level four, like I I don't know how much we'll have to increase in operation. Does that make sense? When we do the levy or whatever, the annual one. Yeah, probably. When we do that, and we usually go to the max every time, cuz the legislator sets what the max is that we can approve for the year. for the What's the word? Levy, right? Yeah. Yeah, levy. Um I mean, would we really be able to fund all the different teachers and specialties? How does that cuz it I'm just a little concerned about funding that Sure, right now. At the beginning of the >> can take part of it. So, a lot of the staff are already existing staff like at Journey and Focus that would be absorbed their compass. So, we would be bringing existing staff from other locations into that building. Um and there would be some cost savings in being able to share some staff differently, too, because they would all be under the same roof. We'd not have to pay quite as much mileage for some of our special educators who are going here, there, and everywhere. Um You want to take the other part? Yeah, you can generally just Sure. At the very top of that right-hand corner, $350 million is in bonding. The $9 million is in operating funds. So, that comes from a capital project levy. So, that operating funds goes to fund the schools that we would build and and remodel. So, any addition that we would have. And I think that's really important because we we shouldn't build schools without the funds to to remodel. So, your point is really well taken. And so, that mechanism there, John, if I'm not telling you we would take out the capital a lot of capital spending out of the general fund and code it through the new capital project levy. Thus, freeing up the general fund dollars to staff the schools and to make sure that they're operating. Okay? Yes. >> Yes. Well, not without going too far in the weeds. School finance is not where everybody wants to be. But, yeah, the capital project Did you say it right? You can code things into that bucket, which frees up our own reserve on the side. But, I think Maybe even quicker than what your point is. If we have five in sand, we have setting four. We have janitors, we have all of that stuff happening now. And we put them into a new building, those costs are all still there. We're still heating, I mean saying, right? We're still doing that. And because the staff are with the number of students, they're going with it. To uh Jamie's point is that we would have some staff sharing. There's not going to be a lot of additional operating costs in setting four because it's already existing. It's not like putting a new high school online where you're going to have 11 new janitors. You're going to have [clears throat] water, you're going to have gas, all of that in the brand new building. Yes, it's a new building, but you're also closing down a different building. Right? So, you're going to have those janitors. I guess we don't have cooks there cuz we don't have a kitchen, but you know, so a lot It's not going to be a lot of new costs like a new elementary or a new high school. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, I just cuz we always approve it to the max and it's like that's another hit on the taxpayers. And so, it's really two different things, right? Cuz we're adding We're adding bonding and the capital project money to it. What you're think you're you're referencing is our typical annual levy process that we get we get the the ability to set it at the max when we don't know where to go because if anything if you don't put it at the max, then you can't move it. So, that's really where that comes from. But, that wouldn't change as part of this process because those levy legislative authority that are given to the board would still continue in the future. It's so confusing at times. It is. It is. It is. Thank you. I'm trying to ask that question. Within that levy, there's all those line items and all those line items come with different requirements that you can and can't do. That's why it's confusing and that's why I think you see the lack of trust in school finance because it's really confusing and it's and they tinker with it every year. And the legislative session or at the legislative level, the school funding is like 275 pages long or something, so makes no sense. Well, I guess I need to see what my constituents feel. You'll have that. >> Cuz I do represent them. I work for them. I will do a same weighted exercise for the top five, six biggest and do a PowerPoint. Super easy to look at just like a district report. You'll have that by Friday noon. Okay. Um the other permissions that I need that's a one homework assignment. How did the board feel about Did you want me to create that recording that you can send out to your parents and your staff about what the survey findings are and be that PowerPoint. Because I have a face for radio, I would just have my voice over the PowerPoint and click through the slides and describe the waiting mechanism in as efficient a manner. It would take all the questions out. It'd just be me in my in my office doing a recording. It'd probably be 15 minutes to If you want If you like the idea, fine. If you think this is a good recording, I don't need to do it. It's just something new we've been doing. You'll kind of learn from Yellow Medicine. Uh in 20 three municipalities, they got 400 views of that PowerPoint uh with the explanation of the survey data. It's a great intentional way of saying, "We surveyed and we're going to get back to you with what we learned from the survey." I like that. I think it makes sense to do. I will not get into these points. So, it's not my job to talk about the alternative plan. This is just to in a timely manner get right back to them and say, "This is This is what the data told us." And then I'll say at the end, "And stay tuned for next steps from your board based on these I kind of like the idea you were telling Chair Norton about the 30,000 survey thing you're going to have done. Oh, yeah. Yeah, by by Friday at noon. Tomorrow? Tomorrow? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's good stuff. I think that tonight for me was very helpful to hear you explain it. So, if that's something you could put together for an explanation where someone could watch a video, that'd be great. Especially if you have an admin for you that's included in Included in what we do, so there's no extra charge in there. >> [laughter] >> Everybody So, I just want this noted since the paper is here that our interest would be around 16 million a year for 350. I'm going to say that out loud. It never 4 and 1/2%. Now, I do think the interest rate and obviously they're not in our favor right now. But, how soon could we refinance? So, they put call buttons in there and I want to push back a little bit on the 17. So, currently let's use we have one bond that's 110 million. We pay about 5 million a year over the whole time for that interest on that bond. So, if we're going to bond if you if you mathematically roll that out, you'll pay about 5 million dollars a year in interest for our 350 million. I didn't quite follow that. It's not 17 million based on what we are paying inside of our current debt. So, we have a bunch of bonds, right? When they our auditor shows up and they show that beautiful thing that has colors all over it. If we look at the bond amounts that are in there, we have one of those bond amounts that is 110 million. Right? So, that's how much money we borrowed is 110 million dollars ish came into our world. Now, we got to pay interest on that. So, that 110 million we pay about 30 million dollars of interest over 20 years. So, when we mathematically pull that out, that's about 1.5 million per year that we pay on that 100 million dollar bond. We put that into our how we're going to bond 350 million, it's about 5 million dollars per year in interest. Oh, that's Yeah, the math didn't quite Yeah. I think we should do a video on that. And I I can't I can't give you I know >> [laughter] >> I'm getting asked these questions. What are we paying for interest? We can't afford it right now. Why don't you wait another year? You know, and how much does it cost to put this on the ballot? Is there Is there a cost to Um it would be far less to do it now because it's a general election year and we're already going to So when you put it on the ballot, the cost is actually less to do it in November rather than running your own election, right? But is it It's It's negligible in a in in the size of our budget. Okay. I was just I'm like I can't I can't I can't give you a number, but that's a drop in the ocean, so to speak, compared to compared to what it could be. Um I don't think I mean, I think when it comes to the interest question, it's kind of like your like like your home, right? When you take out a loan for your home, right? I think everybody understands you're going to pay interest on that. Because if you're talking that kind of kind of numbers, that is not again not numbers and money that people can save to be able to pay for it. So again, waiting a year, pushing this out till bonds are completely paid for, obviously we have to leave it alone. It's not going to get cheaper, and we know that there's interest included in it, and we know it's a lot, right? We're talking millions in interest, right? Again, for what you're getting for that for that tax impact, that's something to consider. And to be clear, the 419 annually includes principal and interest. Correct. So that includes both on and again, if you refunded in 3 to 5 years for a different interest rate, it comes down. Um you know, that's kind of a a variable. They'll put in call the rates. I don't want to curse us, but like we aren't in the cheapest interest rates of our history in the last 20 years. So hopefully there's an opportunity that would present itself, and and ultimately that's money that goes directly back to the taxpayers. Yeah. And lowers their levy, we lower their taxes when we we do that. And are we at We're a triple A bond rating right now? No, both. A what? Yeah, there's only a handful that are triple A. Yeah, so double A, so I mean which is a which is a phenomenal bond rating, you know, and it gives us very good interest rates. So, I mean again, talks to our financial responsibility. And to give you some context, the last time we had a call with the bond rating agencies, it was a little over $3 million saved. To your point, we watch that closely. Others brings that to us all the time to say, "Here's your bonds, when are they callable?" And when they are, if there's a big need that comes and goes, is this something we should do? Is there enough savings to to have the expense to do it? And that that was the last one that we had that was a big one. Pretty good business manager to have at that time, huh? I mean, it's good to protest. Don, see what you got to hold up to? So, what we're saying is in 2 years, we want to see a $3 million saved. That's what I'm saying. Exactly. Exactly. I'm I'm game with that. I can get on board with that, so. Is that a goal? Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yep, I wish you had. It'd be great. Um I don't know. I'm sure I'll probably email you with some questions or afterthoughts. Absolutely. That's pretty deep. >> [clears throat] >> in the moment, but yes. And I will make the same offer. You're going to drive home and say, "Should have asked Darren this." And just email me. Open dialogue, just getting started. Make your video, make your uh municipal breakout I would maybe say if you can get those by Friday, that'd be helpful. Is that difficult? Yes. Yeah, that's good. Um and then either way, I just want the public to know that redistricting or boundary line changes will occur with the new school. With the new school. And it's really I don't want us to hold when we educate the public. I just I want the facts there. I don't want to steer them one way or another. Like, you know, if this doesn't happen, everybody's moving to the north. And it's like things are going to change no matter what. I just like I hope that we can educate them very fair. Just facts. I don't want to hear like you should vote this or that. Just let it be the the people. Yeah, I just want to say those are the things that would not come from our team cuz we can't do that. We can't go out and say this is how you should vote. So, what you would see is a series of meetings presentations to get people the facts. That is absolutely how this would go and absolutely would be the expec- expectations of our team and our staff is to say this is the community's choice. We want you to understand our current reality. I would also encourage the board to think about what do they want to do with that? Cuz we want to want to take the same stance that our role is to educate you on a yes and a no and then you make the decision. You know, cuz the board has talked about that stuff in the past. Should the board be neutral and simply follow the district standard of providing you the data and asking you to go vote. We had some students from AMSD. I can't remember the school unfortunately, but a few months back and they were talking about referendums and the board educating and having a really clear message was what really helped pass referendums. So, we just done it so Yes, a unified board and a unified message of here's the facts, be informed and go vote will go a long way for our taxpayers and constituents. Do you have any other questions? I'm going to get you now. All right, well I know it was a long night. I appreciate you all staying late for us and taking the time to put the information together. It was very helpful. I feel like um we're all very well informed. We have a lot of thinking to do over the next couple of weeks, but thank you. Thank you, teachers. >> Thank you. Uh okay. Yep. And it's required something because I know. Yeah. I didn't drink a lot of that and drink a lot of You have to go to I had to go earlier. I don't know why I drank too much water earlier. I just finally called it. Okay, so real quick You don't get to vote on that stuff much right now. We'll do the consent agenda. So, there's only two items on the consent agenda. Are there any board members want to extract either of those two items? Anyone want to pull one of the two items from the consent agenda? Hearing none, then I'll we'll pass the consent agenda via unanimous consent. Uh just some information on upcoming dates of importance. So, and for the school board, this is important to notice. We have a May 26th special meeting. So, at that meeting, we're going to take all the information we've had tonight, have a discussion, and we will vote on whether or not to move forward. Now, that's not the last opportunity because you'll see that we have to until June or July. Yeah, you want to act by July for the actual formal resolution to authorize, should you decide to So, the next meeting will just be to direct on how we want to pursue to move forward, and it won't be formalized until the late June meeting. So, the reason I bring that up is we're going to we'll have this special meeting, which is recorded. The next is going to be a special meeting where we'll have the same discussion, which is recorded. There will be a regular meeting where the public will have a chance to speak as well. So, um the reason that's important is, of you, we've have the survey, we are trying to get as much community feedback as possible. So, they're just pointing out that within what's going on there will be opportunities for public comment on everything we discussed today. Other than that, pay attention to um coming up. The week of June, we just had a great graduation ceremony last night with our American Indian education program. That was great, and we have a whole bunch of more coming up. So, fun time of year for that. And you all got a um um updated stuff on the facilities committee, and the next policy committee meeting is coming up because we had to cancel a couple of those. So, be aware there there was more cancellation. Other than that, um is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Second. Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Meeting's adjourned. Hey.