[music] [music] [music] [music] one for my parents. >> Okay, it's [music] 6:45. Glad not >> meeting will come to order. First up, first up on our agenda is roll call. We're all here. Yay. Um, approval of city council agenda. >> Can I pull out um number seven of city business? I've been chatting with a bunch of different organizations as of today and they're they haven't got any information back yet. >> Sure. Anything else? Um, Alan, did you want to add that under I just amend? >> Yeah, if you could. >> Do you want to say it? >> Yeah. Mayor and counselor, earlier today, um, we did get a call. This is uh, in relation to letter I under the consent agenda. You've already got it teed up to uh, authorize some payments to Henches and Suns, SNM Henches. They're doing a bunch of the lift station work uh pursuant to contract. They've put in a couple of uh pay applications number four and five. And so the total under that line item that they're requesting is 156,497 and 46 cents. So that's the actual number we're approving on the already lettered item. >> Just FYI. >> And then um is this the time that we're talking about the consent agenda? if we want to pull something out. >> Well, we're now approving the agenda. >> Okay. >> So, this is just a number to go with that lettered item. Okay. >> So, once the agenda is set, you can then once we get to the consent, pull whatever you need. >> Thank you. >> That's all I would amend that with. >> Anything else? >> Okay. Can I um have a motion, please, to approve the agenda with those two amendments? >> So, I'll second Henkins. >> All in favor? >> I opposed. Hearing none, motion passes. Um we'll move on to the public forum. >> Would you like to speak, Mr. Granick? >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mayor and Council. Good evening. Um Terry Granick. I live at 363 Lakewood Lane. Um I'm here on behalf of Jessica, my wife, who I think most of you know from the Lake Links Committee as well. Um and myself just want to raise concern. I actually stopped in and saw Theres in the office yesterday and she suggested this would be a good kind of starting point. I will follow up with more detail and more more details about the situation, but raise concerns about a tree. Um I live on Lakewood Lane, so if you're unfamiliar, start at the hockey rink and you're coming up and go up the hill right to the right. There's a very steep road that goes up on the end of that road, actually across the street from my house. So, it's officially, I understand, on both city property and 369 Wildwood Drive property. And the backside essentially of that property is a very large um cottonwood tree that has uh been essentially hald by the property owner at this point. everything over his property was taken down. Um, and it now if you take a look at it, it's best to go there and look at it. It is a very precariously um, if it goes down, it will fall on my house, property, family, and I am very concerned on that. He's also been digging maybe level or something, but bottom line is like I'm concerned about the root system. I'm concerned about multiple things. I've had two independent um arborists who were coming to do other work at my house um unsolicited raise concern as they came up the road about this tree. Um and one was actually Woodchuck who is uh I think on your agenda later this evening. Um so I have been concerned about it um for a while and I have pictures. I'll send these via email. John Lun looked at it when he was doing emerald ashbor. So this maybe a year agoish. And also that I did ask him because he was out there and I like hey can you look at this and he was tagging trees for but he expressed concern with it. So my concern and kind of where I'd like to get to is I'll I'll I'll share this information. It's not on my property. It's across the street from my property. My understanding is that the property line actually divides the tree. Um so I'd like to try to um just raise the safety concern. It is a big safety concern. I think you'd agree if you took a look at it. Um and then just following up with how we can you know mutually address the the concern. I don't I mean I mean so just so I understand the tree was removed on private property and the remainder of the tree is on public property. >> That's well that's your understanding. >> The trunk is I think right down the middle. >> Yeah. >> The first like >> the >> large branches that broke like that branch off >> split off. So if you look at the tree, it's literally half the tree and it's half this way. And it's >> so the the the trunk is in place. It was just kind of the upper part of it was cut back so that it [snorts] doesn't balance well now. Something like that. I just want to make sure I understand. >> 50% of the tree is gone. Trunk is in place to the top like >> and it's split between like Danny's property and city property. As far as you're aware of the property, >> that's my understanding. That's what he has uh claimed explained in the past and actually I think you know there was a survey done and it did appear to me it's splits. >> It sounds like something that we should look at. >> Yeah. So how would we access that tree? What's the best? >> So that's also um what what Chuck had indicated would be best. So if you want to access it to look at it, come up Lakewood Lane. It's at the top on your left hand side. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um if you want to access it to do tree work on it. >> Yeah. >> Um there's there's power lines. It would come down across power lines into my house and property. Um so Woodchuck did indicate that it would be probably preferential if they had access from the other property owner um to deal with the remainder of the tree. >> Okay. We'll come take a look at it. Were you saying power lines go through it? >> No, not go through it. It would fall. It would come down across it. I actually talked to Wright a little bit and they're like, "We only work 10 feet within power lines >> as well." >> So I >> I don't know that it would be a a right >> tree service issue at least. But I don't know. I haven't look at it specifically. I was here yesterday and there was a guy in the parking lot. I talked to because I came to talk to Theres and I was like, "Hey, what what do you think about this?" Well, we're only contracted within like 10 ft of lines. >> All right, I'll run out and take a look at it. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Alan, >> good evening, mayor, members of the council. I'm Alan Mitchell. I'm on the parks committee, and you have on your agenda today one item that the parks committee has brought to you, and that's the proposed amendments to chapter 804, which is the uh provision of the code that creates the special revenue fund. So, I appreciate the opportunity to address you here, and I'll be very brief. Uh, you'll remember back in April, you passed a resolution, and you directed the parks committee to monitor the funds that are in the special revenue fund, which are primarily the dock fees, and to prepare an action plan and a budget for 2026. So, we're meeting next Tuesday, and that's our plan to get that together so you'll have it for the December meeting, and somebody from the parks committee can come here again in December regarding that. Um, but one of the things that came to our attention is that the the ordinance provisions regulating the the spending of money from the special revenue fund could use some updating and and and some clarification. So, we've put together some proposed language to to do that. And you have in your packet uh explanation of all the changes we proposed. They're they're not controversial. They're not substantial. They're updating. They're clarifications. Um, so really all you have to do tonight is is just uh pass a motion to say, "Yeah, we're going to propose some [snorts] amendments to chapter 804, schedule a public hearing for next week or next month, I mean, as uh is required under your rules or procedure, and then uh if if you're happy with the amendments, uh hold the public hearing, see if anybody comments, take those into account, and then pass a resolution and publish notice." Um, and as I said, uh, in December, we are hoping to have an action plan and a budget, uh, for 2026. >> Thank you. >> Oh, thank you. >> Thanks, Alan. >> Have a good meeting. [laughter] >> Happy Friday. >> All right. Barton, would you like to >> Barton Winter 15 Oaks Lane and um I've been uh doing quite a bit of work on the rink and replacing boards and earlier in the summer we were replacing the perimeter posts and so you know I think uh you know there's obviously more that could could be done but uh one of the things that's come to my attention mention is our new netting s uh setup on the sort of the west end of the rink and um what I've commented on is that I was a little concerned about the bolting in of the one the um existing structural posts that hold up the chain link fence to new post that came off the back stop. So, that's one one thing. Um, you know, I I would like to see some banding uh to hold let's say the two posts, the primary posts that are around the entrance, hold them together and sort of take some of the stress off the bolted connection. Um, one of the other thing that I'm uh concerned about at the ring, okay, there's we don't have zip ties or any ties on the center portion of the netting that goes under or above the opening. And I don't know if they plan on doing that, but we should. I mean, it could be that it's being left because it's inconvenient if something tall needs to go in, but that shouldn't be our main concern. you know, that's that's where we want we want the pucks to be stopped there. And uh I'm also concerned about we have uncapped posts and specifically on the far end away from the warming house. Uh these are the 2-in diameter posts that support the chain link fence and they're pretty thinwalled and we've got at least eight of those posts that have burst and I believe I was told in consultation with some fencing companies that that's result of water getting into the pipe and then freezing and expanding. So a lot of those posts there most of them don't have a cap on them. Right. So, I would say we need to put caps on, you know, ultimately block the water from getting down into the tube. And um on the other end, the new uh setup, we've got the taller posts, which are thicker wall. And um you know, I guess they're not as much of a concern to burst if they get water in them, but why temp fate? So, I'm asking that we designate Jim and Ron or me or somebody to cap these posts with the caps are not expensive at all. And it was told to me that possibly we could drill like four 90°ree um screws in to hold the caps on because they get shocked, you know, when the puck hits the fence. >> Yeah, >> we can talk to Jim and Ron about that. >> Okay. >> Is there anything? So, uh, yeah, that's that's basically my concern. Um, I, uh, you know, also here's what I've been saying, um, you know, for the last few years. I said, yeah, I I would like to have some autonomy to flood. And you know, because that's where the key thing that I've complained about is we're going too slow. Our buildup is too slow. We get going too slate. And uh >> Excuse me one moment. Did you want to speak about that? >> I did. I think that's a good idea. So, um my thought is that once the weather gets cold enough, we'll alert you as to when you can start flooding. But we'll let you try it. Really? One and done. How about that? >> Oh, yeah. No, I I I don't want to compete with Jim. >> I want to work in concert with him. And so hopefully >> we'll have you do it. Um and then in the event that um Well, we'll have to set some some rules in general um and probably a little bit of training as far as >> we'll have a meeting with you. >> Yep. >> Yeah. We need to re you know I mean he's he has given me training on it uh like 2020 >> and then we'll have to have you sign the waiver as well. Okay. >> But we'll set up a meeting. Okay. >> Okay. That, you know, that's great. That sounds good. Thanks. >> Yeah. Thank you, Barton. >> Thanks, Barton. >> Thanks for all your work on the ring, too. It looks great. >> Yeah. >> We appreciate that. >> Happy to do it. It seems like it takes a long time. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's, you know, but right now I have some time and and I'm finishing up. >> Well, thank you. We really appreciate it. >> I'm gonna finish this last corner in spring. >> Okay. >> Um anyway, but >> thank you. >> Excellent. Thanks. >> Thank you. Mr. and Mrs. Jensen. >> Bud's gonna sit this one out. [snorts] >> I'm Ruth Jensen. Is this on? >> I believe it is. >> Just tap on it. See? Yep, you're on. >> Um 701 Hall Avenue. and I'm here to talk about Halls Marsh and I am assuming that the council's objectives are to restore and maintain Halls Marsh while preserving Birwood's property rights and keeping the budget down. So, I think that uh Rice Creek's proposed agreement opposes these objectives. You've all heard of putting the cart before the horse. I think Rice Creek's agreement is full of carts that are way way down the road with no horse anywhere in sight. That missing horse in the scenario is easements. Rice Creek Watershed District has no easements to use Birchwood property and their agreement is a distraction from that basic fact. Birchwood should not take this next step of signing the agreement drafted by Rice Creek in its own favor until it takes the first step of requiring Rice Creek to get the legally necessary easements to use Birwood's property, including all of Hall's Marsh. We know you're all tired of talking about this and anxious to settle the problem as quickly and cheaply as pro as possible. But I think it's important to realize that Rice Creek first proposed this agreement on June 1st, 2022 after Birwood's resolution on in October of 2021 and after Ellen's letter March 1st to Rice Creek of 2022. both of which directed Rice Creek to clean up the marsh and stop using Hall's Marsh for untreated prebie runoff. That's when they came up with this agreement. But in three and a half years, Rice Creek still accepts responsibility only for the outfall settlement and denies responsibility for the length of Hall's Marsh. I think it's time for Birwood to reject the whole idea of this cumbersome agreement. It contains falsehood that's falsehoods that support Rice Creek's position and weaken Birwoods. And uh really the only relevant parties for Hall's Marsh are Rice Creek and Birchwood. The strongest protection Birchwood can get for the marsh are easements that include legal description of the property, plus maintenance terms that don't depend on what another municipality does or does not do. Even if all of Birchwood's amendments are accepted by Rice Creek, the agreement takes away Birchwood rights by requiring it to access without easements. Easements would specify the legal description, maintenance and cost sharing terms, the intentions of the parties, and dispute resolution. Those are important protections for Birwood property rights. Rice Creek has known since its original engineers reports in 1978 that easements were required and that they did not get them. The agreement also requires giving up the right to claim damages and requires agreement that the plop is two separate projects, thus excluding the marsh, and that it's not a storm water project subject to MPCA regulation. So, here's what we think Birwood can do instead of signing that agreement. First, of course, they inform Rice Creek that they're not going to participate in this maintenance and operations agreement because it is adverse to Birwood's legal rights. Then they inform Rice Creek that Rice Creek has to negotiate for the legally required easements with maintenance terms to use birchwood land for the plop. And that includes the land over the piping that comes down and Rice Creek has to cover all the legal costs for drafting and recording those easements. Attachment one has documentary support for Birwood's position and there is no cost presenting these facts to Rice Creek and requiring them to do what the law requires. If Rice Creek refuses to negotiate the easements with cleanup and maintenance terms, Birwood can petition the Board of Soil and Water Resources to compel Rice Creek to get the easements. And then further along, they could investigate filing court actions to compel Rice Creek to get the easements and possibly to pay damages and legal fees if that were allowed. As far as I know, Birwood has not asked the White Bear Lake Conservation District or the Washington County Conservation District or the Washington County Commissioner for help and support in demanding that Rice Creek accept legal responsibility for Halls Marsh as a district facility that has always been an integral part of the Prebby Lake outfall project. The plop has degraded Halls Marsh, a public water wetland that's hydraologically connected to and drains into White Bear Lake at a fish spawning area. So, I think they might have some concerns, too. Then we can or simultaneously petition the DNR to get Prey Lake off the public water inventory. Freebie was listed on that due to a known error, a flyover mistake. And Rice Creek knows it. They're fully aware of it. And the and first, last, and always, it's storm water going into PreeB, storm water going out. But in March, because of this technicality that Prieb is a public water lake, Rice Creek successfully petitioned to be removed from the requirement that the plop is removed from the requirement for an MS4, you know, the storm sewer separate thing because they don't regulate transfers between public waters. And uh but Minnesota statute 103G 2011 says the commissioner can revise the public water inventory map as needed to correct errors in the original inventory. I think we should ask him to do that and then we can ask the MPCA to resend the cancellation of the of Rice Creek's need for an MS4 permit since it's clear that Rice Creek is using a known error to circumvent the intent of Minnesota water law. And then finally and least favorite would be to investigate asking for a declaratory judgment on the rights and obligations of both parties specifically on Rice Creek's use of Birwood's land without a legal easement. then followed with or combined with a request for a summary judgment compelling them to get the easements to negotiate those easements. And another thing that you could look into since Ice Creek is physically occupying and using the city land without an easement. This could be conceivably a trespass and the city could seek damages from them for the unauthorized entry and use of the property. Then I just wanted to say about the attachments, some facts and law. This is just some of the evidence that's available about Rice Creek always intending to use Halls Marsh for water treatment, starting with the first engineers report in 1978 and that it was always one project to get the water out of Prebian into White Bear Lake. I'm just going to say that like on the first page under facts A1B is the quote permanent easements for drainage purposes will be required along the entire length of the outfall and then a drainage easement through the hall marsh will also have to be acquired. And at the bottom of the first page is a quote from the final engineers report in 1979. And it says, "The new location of the storm sewer outfall will provide assurance of the complete utilization of Halls Marsh as a wetland treatment facility for the storm water discharge prior to its entry into White Bear Lake. I think that's pretty definitive. And then there's the questions about easement law. And it's interesting, this is at the top of page three, that despite how old this project was, Rice Creek had to get an easement from Dale Johnson when it replaced the outlet into White Bear Lake in 2017. And then it also acquired easements from the property owners around Preebie when it replaced the outlet structure there in 2022. And Rice Creek policy requires the district to get easements for all their facilities, but they've never acquired any from Birwood. A petition for a drainage project does not grant easements and allowing usage even for years and years doesn't grant easements over municipal land because for municipal land prescriptive those kind of usage easements are specifically forbidden by Minnesota statute 541.01 901 and permission can be given and it can be withdrawn and it's very reasonable I think for Birwood after discovering a polluted sediment that requires removal to an industrial site to require Rice Creek to get the necessary legal easements with maintenance terms. Now then, attachment two is important because it shows that Rice Creek knows the water coming out of previous is storm water. They have known it at least since 2021, but they knew it before that, but at that board meeting, they talked about it and how it was mistakenly identified as a lake. And I think Rice Creek wants to use the fact that Prebby is a lake and that there isn't going to be any MPCA oversight just to help them do a draw down over any objections Birchwood might have because you know it's just a transfer from one lake to another public water body. So I think it would be important for Birwood to uh petition the DNR to get it off to get Prebby off the public water inventory and then that's it. And I have lots of answers. I hope you guys have some questions. Well, I will mention that we have talked to Stan and we have talked to Washington Conservation District. >> Oh, good. >> Um, and Minnesota Pollution. Yeah. So, we are awaiting more responses from those groups, but we'll see what comes up of it. That's why I took it off the agenda for tonight is because we're awaiting some additional information. So, okay. >> I don't have any questions yet. I need to digest all of this, but thank you for putting all this together. This is a lot of work, >> lot of time and effort, and I appreciate that. We have been in Birwood for a long time. I'd really like to see all of Birchwood get to enjoy the marsh with a walkway or >> or just more shore access or something. >> Thank you. I appreciate you guys doing all of this for us. Thank you. >> Did any of you guys have questions? >> No. >> Okay. >> Thanks for coming. >> Um seeing no one else to speak at the um public forum. Uh public forum is closed. Um we did the presentations and we're moving on to the consent agenda. Um, Bridget, did you have something you wanted to pull from that? >> Yeah, just a couple of Um, I'd like to talk about the wood check in Holly's Park >> and then the paid leave. >> Okay. >> And then I just have a question about the balance sheet. >> Hold on. Um, >> sorry. >> What letters? >> So, it's G. >> Uh, it's L and then a question about M. >> Okay. >> G, L, and M. You should try to spell something. [laughter] >> That's like glam, but what the Anyway, never mind. Okay. So, can um >> I want to pull out C. >> Can I have a motion to accept the consent agenda after the removal of G, L, and M >> and C, please? >> And C. >> So moved with the removal of GL, M and C. >> Second. All in favor? >> I >> opposed hearing none. Motion passes. >> Can I clarify something quick on that though? >> Sure. >> Um I think we left in I. Yes. So that was for the revised amount. Okay. >> Just to make sure >> that was all. >> Are we are we getting reimbursements again? I don't want to. Let's just not remark on my remarks. It's a It's a Friday and a long night. >> Okay. So, um I'm going to add this GL. Well, let's go in alphabetical order. CG L and M. I can't do [laughter] it after um number eight on city business there. Okay. Um let's move on to staff reports then. Uh Marcus couldn't be here this evening, but in your packet you will see on page 71. >> Do we want to adopt the consent agenda? >> Oh, I thought we did that. >> We We did. I had a clarifying question afterwards. Sorry. >> Sorry. [snorts] >> I just wanted to make sure that the amount we approved was actually the amount we approved and that we don't have to come back later. So, um if you look on u page 71 of um your agenda packet, there's a map and the highlighted streets on the map show um where the Kraken seal um project will occur in 2026. Um we need approval on this tonight um because it goes to Washington count. We're going to go through Washington County to have it done and they need to get us on their calendar. And in order to do that, they need to know in December if we are going to go in with them, you know, to get this project completed. So the expected cost, if you see on the side, is $22,000. >> I'm not finding that page 71. >> Okay. So there's two packets. >> It's not on page 71 of either. >> It's right here. >> That one. Okay. >> 71. I don't know what to tell you about it. Um, >> it says page 71 at the bottom of the page, not page 71 in the PDF. >> Okay, hold on. No, I saw the map >> cuz it >> Oh, because there's two. I got you. Sorry. Okay. Anyway, do you have any questions about the project and or the amount or anything? So, it's part of our 2026 uh road improvement plan which um Marcus is working up two different scenarios and that will be presented in December as a council. Um probably at our workshop if we agree to do that. But this part we need to pass first because like I said the the deadline is coming up if we want to have that done. I think it's a good idea. >> Okay. Then can I get a motion to approve the crack sale project for $22,000? >> Uh so moved, Kathy. >> Second. >> Second. >> Ryan. All in favor? >> I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. Okay. Um, going on to number two, engineers report on drainage improvements in Poly's Park. Um, put in I don't know how this is working in your packets, but it's page 72. Um, he put in a map of all the improvements. Um, did anybody have any questions on that? And we know we get we're getting any all funding through um Rice Creek. >> Rice Creek wershed. Is that for the Poly's Park one? >> Oh. Oh, Poly's Park. I am so sorry. Yeah. Poly's Park. No, this one. Okay. Sorry. >> They're applying for a grant. It looks like >> you're right. Yep. Yep. Sorry about that. So, Pauly's Park. Um if you have walked down there, you will have noticed all the erosion. The water just like runs straight down Birchwood Avenue into the park. um causing like ri just rivlets. >> Yeah, rivlet. >> Well, it used to be a pond. >> Yeah. It used to be a pond and they drained it and put that drainage in there. >> Well, that's that's we're talking about that's why it was water runoff. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's why that all goes down there is because it's >> that's I mean whatever. It's still a catch basin down there. Mhm. >> So, um [snorts] this would also be a potential part of the 2026 road plan. Um Marcus and I met with um some people from Rice Creek. We have to have a premeating before you apply for that storm water grant. >> Um so, this would be the project if we were to get the grant. Um it would take care of all that. Um the water just rushes down and it erodess everything, the street, the sides of the road. And so you'll see the different parts of the project. Um that would be done. And there would be a a rain garden or retention pond. Yes, that is the south side of Poly's Park. Um which would catch all that water running in. And with curbing we could um direct the water better. So anyway, that's something um Marcus and I have been talking about with Rice Creek. Um the action item that goes with that is number two and that is on page uh 73. Uh Marcus estimates that it would cost about $12,000 for him to work up do the soil borings, infiltrate tests, um surveys, hydraulic modeling, feasibility report. So to work up the information in order to apply for the grant would be $12,000. The grant would be a $60,000 grant. Um 30,000. It's a 50-50 grant. So Berto would come up with 30. Again, all this money would be coming out of the road improvement project because it would be rolled in to the um roads plan for next year. >> So, I just have a a couple of comments. One, do we have an overall plan for Paul's Park? Do we do we know what we want Paulie's Park to be? I know what the parks committee had planned on doing once they were done with Tai Schmidt, which was um there's a lot of dead trees there. That tree removal was part of that. We were hoping to grind all the stumps at the same time so that we could replant because um we can't apply for the relief grant and the other DNR grants because we are too wealthy of a community as far as our um the the people who live here um are above a certain poverty level basically. And this year they've uh only allowed um income levels to dictate the first come portion of that. and there's never been that grant where it rolls over. So that's why we have not applied for the relief because we are very unlikely to get it. But um in the event it next year has one where you can plant again, removing all those tree stumps that would be detrimental to planting would have been a the plan for the parks committee and then putting in a boardwalk through there because of the steep grade ends up just washing down into this retention pond or along the route. Um and then uh same issue with like wood chips and things like that. and it just ends up being washed down because of the steep angle. So, they were hoping to do a boardwalk or something through there to make that a little nicer and then the educational placards etc that it used to have um would be restored with all the new trees. So, that was the plan that the parks committee had planned on doing once Tymidt was done. So or the current project in Tishmid was done because they were thinking about poly and then >> easements was the next one and so anything that's washing away is what they were aiming for after that. think it would be helpful to have sort of the overall picture of what we want this piece of land to be. >> And then the the other the other thing that comes to mind is sort of the cautionary tale of what we've run into with Tai Schmidt, >> which was that it was a marsh and it was a wetland and we've been fighting it and fighting it and fighting it. And it seems like that's what we're saying about this one, too. Yeah, it was as he mentioned it was previously a pond and then was drained for the purpose of >> so it's going to go back to having a pond in it >> rain garden retention pond to catch all that storm water >> and then perhaps we won't need a walkway because it won't be rush it won't be run out you know >> well I think it's the grade like the the steepness of it that's causing a little bit of the issue but depending on where that rain garden is yeah possibly >> so anyway Um, I don't know. What do you think about this grant applying for it? [snorts] >> I I guess what I I I don't disagree with Bridget. The question I would ask is, don't we need to do this anyway? >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's >> it's destroying the road, >> you I mean, so it's either going to come out I think it's going to come out of our pocket >> or we can get 30,000 potentially from Rice Creek to help us do the project. >> That's the way I'm looking at it because either way, if you take a look at that section of road where the water just rushes down, both sides of the road are totally destroyed. >> It's really bad. >> So, we're going to have to do it one way or the other. >> Okay. And if we can capture the water, like direct it to a certain place in Poly's Park, that'll keep the whole path from burning and getting muddy. So hopefully, >> so I I guess this goes back to the maintenance thing. Like when I look at Poly's Park, I mean I run through it every day like and it rains, the water is supposed to drain because there's a giant drain there that gets full of crap that >> no one cleans out. So it's like like who's taking care of it now? How do we get it? I know we put money aside for maintenance. Like that needs to be part of the >> that needs to go on a list for next year. >> Yeah. Yeah. just like those whatever we're were uncovering along the sides of the road. >> I mean, that's the [laughter] thing. That's the thing. Like, you start digging and you're like, "Okay, well, there's all this all this storm water management that we have that's just covered in dirt and >> it's not functioning because it's not maintained." >> Yeah. So, it's like >> needs to be vacuumed out, etc. >> Well, it needs to be shoveled. >> Shoveled out at this point. Yeah. >> It's buried. >> Yeah. Like, I was shoveling again down there. >> Were you? and white pine and >> Oh jeez. >> Yeah. >> But Ryan ran by and he found this pipe. There's a corrugated pipe that was I don't know hidden >> under leaves and vines and >> I mean it was just we have some sort of storm water structure out there. It's just all covered. >> It's been neglected for a very long time. >> Mhm. >> How far was I digging back from the road? >> Just three feet. >> Yeah. Three feet of asphalt and it was like this. Oh my gosh. >> So, I mean, >> so our roads are actually significantly wider than [clears throat] you think. >> They are. >> They are surprisingly larger than you would think. >> Yeah, I was I was actually digging along hall there by Roto Path. >> Yeah. >> Clear all that. But anyway, we digress. So, >> anyway, we're going to have to take care of this storm water management anyway, one way or the other so we can try to get this grant and get 30,000 from them. or repay. >> I I mean, I guess the way I'm squaring this in my head is saying that this is just it is destroying that road down there. >> Like it is in tatters right now. And so it's like I think you're right. This this is part of the roads project. >> I think Washington Conservation District also will do the rain gardens for free as well. So, if we get um Marcus to do the plans potentially that that location and then also um on Wildwood where there's always that huge puddle whenever it rains. It's just a little ways down from my house. >> Yes, that those would be two good locations that potentially could use some water diversion to start draining them and getting them off the road in both locations because potholes are going to form. So, >> right. So I e even if we don't get Rice Creek to pay for it, it would be probably good to have the engineering figure it out ahead of time when it's time to do that road. >> And so like these things are strictly for the grant and required by the grant because I look at this and I'm like this seems like an astronomical amount for these things. >> I know >> that's what we had to have a premeating before we fill out the pre- paperwork like before we even get to the grant. So, you have to have the meeting, then you have to fill out the preliminary paperwork, and then after they approve your preliminary paperwork, then you can apply for the grant. But this is all necessary for the preliminary paperwork. >> Forget what survey to shoot existing conditions. Like, I don't even know what that means. >> I'm not an engineer. >> Marcus, where are you Marcus? >> It's just a topographic. >> Is that what that means? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I mean, I probably would have put it in human speak, but that's what it means. >> What would you like to do with this? >> I say we have Marcus, since we still have some money left over from the project that we had, we have Marcus do this and then if nothing else, we have it all recorded and ready to go for when we get to that portion of the road anyway. I mean, is this a hard and fast 12,000 bucks or can we negotiate a little bit? >> He always um >> generally an hourly rate and then >> it's Yeah, it's >> multiplied a little bit. >> Yeah, >> he he generally comes in lower. >> He does. >> Yeah, >> because I'll dig the holes and bring them to dirt. >> Nice. >> All right, then. Can I get a motion to approve the 12,000 for the grant work? >> So moved, Kathy. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second. Ryan. >> All in favor? >> Opposed? Hearing none. Motion passes. Thank you. >> Um, so on to city business. Oh, I'm sorry. Page 74 shows um by my math. We're on number three, which is the parks amendment. >> Yeah, I was just saying that on page 74, there's more for that street maintenance. So, yes. So, we're on to um number three. >> Fine. >> Discussion of parks committee request to amend city code. Um, anybody have any discussion on this? >> The only thing is it's it looks like there's a bunch of markup here. Oh >> yeah, he did a markup version and then he did >> he did both versions which is nice. Um >> what do we have to do to get this into like an act? I don't think it's a problem to do a first reading on this but let's just plan to get this into like an ordinance format for next are you able to help with that Alan to put the >> that's what I'll be doing. Yeah. So depending on if you guys approve this and we call it a first reading, >> we would have the final one come back and have a public hearing in December and presumably pass it. And I know I heard Al just like you did. It won't be a resolution. It'll be an ordinance. >> I think he was might have been referring to the summary publication. >> I don't know. Al pass a resolution and you're done. But pass second reading of the ordinance and that'll be it. >> Yep. We'll just do it. I just wanted >> This is short enough. I'm not sure if it would benefit from a summary. >> Well, we'll figure it out. Okay. Just so long as as we are all on the same page of that's what we're doing. >> He did a nice job. >> He did. >> Agreed. [clears throat] >> Yeah. I think this is about as spoonfed as you can get from something. >> So, what would you what kind of action do we need to take on this tonight? >> I think I would just uh move to call this the first reading of the ordinance as it's presented in your packet with the strikeouts. basically literally as presented and direct staff to come back with the uh final version of it uh for second reading and order of public hearing. >> What he said >> I move to pass. Oh, I move to pass as a first reading the proposed amendments to section 804 park special revenue fund. >> Second >> and order public hearing >> and order public hearing. >> Okay, then I'll second that. >> Okay. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. >> So, you're all set with that, Alan? >> Do you need any of us to do anything with regards to that? >> No. >> Okay. >> If I do, I'll ask. And frankly, I can just call Al. I mean, that wouldn't be questions for you guys. >> Okay. I'm on to number four, which is discussion and possible authorization for seasonal road management, snow management. Um Alan did a lot of work on this. Yep. So you can you explain it? >> I [laughter] can take a stab at that. Uh mayor and council of course we met on I think it was the 28th of October. Talked a little bit about the snow uh management season and you saw somewhere in my uh materials that you're really buying insurance to make sure the snow goes away when you get it. So, as hard as it is to decide what uh what the season might bring for the snow company, it's even harder for you guys to decide what to bite on. And so, you made certain requests about what to um ask the the the company and Birch and Bright View are good company. And so, they maintain a lot of people to make sure if we get a lot of snow, they're ready. And if they have minimal snow, somehow they keep these people busy and uh anticipating [snorts] more snow. So, the uh quote that you see there um well, my memo kind of teed that up to talk about what would happen if we actually moved to a 2-in um trigger. And of course, the trigger is when they will actually come out. The initial quote that you guys saw um which was a little eyewatering when you think about uh what it's going to cost, but at one inch, of course, you've got trucks and people deployed at what most people wouldn't even shovel their sidewalks over. So that seems a little bit excessive. Uh in talking with the people at the uh snow company, they said that there are people in Birwood who will call them and even ask for service when there's less than that. But of course, you have to be fiscally responsible and think about, you know, what's reasonable in terms of value. And so that's why we have this quote for 2 in, which is still not that much snow, but certainly when it gets packed down, um it can create a problem later on in the winter. And so it makes sense to use that as a trigger. It just really does and it changes what you see. Um based on the average that uh at least we used for kind of teasing out what it would look like for the season. Uh it is reasonable to assume that we'll get to a tier five which is you know basically right down the middle in terms of average. But you can also see what that actually does to your bid. You know the initial quote um at 1 in um if you're at tier 1 was like 53,000. And so now with a 2-in trigger, you're at basically probably all the snow that we're going to get for just a hair over what that initial tier one was with a 1-in trigger. And so the recommendation from staff, at least from my perspective, uh would be to authorize uh that um basically the contract as bid with a 2-in trigger. And so we go from there. And those increment payments will start in December. And certainly it'll start at tier one and just move forward. And if we don't get that much snow, then that's where we stay. So, >> was it one inch last year or was it two inches last year? >> It was one inch, apparently. >> I I do have seen bright view come through when >> there's barely anything. >> Barely anything. Yeah. I mean, >> plus, you know, I asked them not to plow down to bare pavement. >> That just destroys the asphalt that we're putting down. [clears throat] So even at two inches, they would be plowing like an inch and a half. >> They took out a lot of curbs last year. >> We have a plan for that. I'm I'm assuming that they um when they're mentioning people calling to request service, they're only coming out if it's someone who has a purse string, right? Not like >> me. Well, I I'm a council member, so that's different. But I guess like let's say my neighbor calls in and says, "Hey, it's really icy." Are they coming out for that? >> As in servicing individuals and getting build. >> No. Oh, well, if that's that's what they're doing, fine. But as far as like the >> on behalf of the city >> on behalf of the city, right? >> They wouldn't an an average your neighbor wouldn't be able to call the city's service and say, "Get out here." >> That's what I'm making sure of, [laughter] right? >> That would be reserved to someone on staff. >> Okay, good. So, I know occasionally like we get ice that gets on the hills portion and I'd be okay with them coming out and salting that in the event we had ice ice. But, >> and if we get calls, I mean, we would certainly call that in and they'd send someone out. I mean, they're a big enough group that they'll have folks out >> all day during a snow event. So, if something's missed or if they need to come back and do some cleanup, you know, that'd be something we'd order if we had someone call in. So, pretty typical. They were really good at that last year. And in fact, um, the Granax sent a nice email about that was good road service that they got last year. >> Yeah, they're pros. I mean, they're nationwide, so I mean, they do this all over the place. So, they've kind of got it down to a science, which is how they can come up with this tiered pricing model in the first place. >> So, when we're looking at this chart, we're saying it's going to be approximately 50 $55,000 for snow removal. >> Approximately. >> Yep. And I would uh you know you can authorize to move with that and if we have to go outside of budget then we can talk about that but let's hope that that doesn't happen until Marchish. Right. >> So >> all right. Did you clarify with them as far as um like we were thinking I guess in our meeting where it was in if you say in in March we hit that 49.99 the end of that one. So then we had been paying the 55130. if we get half an inch over and now we're at 50.1. Um, do we owe all the rest of that um between 55 and 63. So then we owe 63. >> I'm a little disappointed to answer your question by uh putting an aside in there. I wrote a memo that was supposed to go with this stuff, but I don't see in here. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know what happened to it, but it explained exactly that. >> Oh, okay. >> But since it's not here, let me explain it again. So, let's say we're at this $55,000 tier, and let's just drop it to 50 because it makes the math easier. So, over five months, the city signs up for this and it pays 10,000. It's invoiceed 10,000 a month over the course of the season. >> And so, that assumes a certain level of service. If you go over that and you go to the next level or tier of service, then what they do is they send you a bill and you're at this new rate and let's say it's 70,000. So, it's 20,000 more divided by five months. So, that's 4,000 a month >> difference. And so, they'll send you a bill for the months prior to that trigger um for basically to catch up. And then you pay that new amount for the balance of the of the term. >> So, we would be on on would be the >> So, it's odd because of course it's like, well, does it just jump up and now do we pay that annualized uh for those months? No, you catch up for whatever. So, that's the that's the hard part about this, right? If you have a 24-in Mother's Day blizzard, all of a sudden you can get thrust into a completely different uh tier and all of a sudden all that back stuff is due plus the last month. So, yeah, it's quite painful. If you get to that point and we're signed up for it, um I believe that once we sort of get beyond that 49.99, uh it would be time and materials at that point. Okay. Um, in the event we got 70 in, is that even a tier or is that we get it free? [laughter] >> Well, again, it becomes time and materials. So, >> okay. >> Ain't nothing free. >> I assumed as much, but there wasn't another tier, so I wanted to check. >> Yeah. So, at that point, I mean, everyone's just happy when anyone shows up, >> I would imagine. >> Yeah. And now there's problems with where to take snow and things like that. >> Well, I my assumption is that some of this will have melted in the meantime, right? So it's a total cumulative not like 70 inches is on the ground at this point, >> right? >> Yeah. And that's uh they keep track of that with a modeling service that uh kind of anonymizes it. So they're not out there with their measuring stick saying, "Yay, we made it." So there's a company that does that. It's a subscription model and it's basically using Noah and other models to actually say this is exactly what you got here as opposed to using the number in in the airport for example for the official number. So when I talk to Matt who's sort of our salesperson, uh they've got crews that go out and so they'll actually spot visit to say, "Hey, you know, because we do have some of these little pockets and it's very possible that Birwood could get 2 in and Oakdale could get one." And so they've got folks out there and if they see that, they'll come out and and work. So, >> okay. >> And if you guys see something, call, email, whatever else and say, "It looks like we should have some snow service." And if we don't, then I can make the call. >> Do we get to call you as well if they come out too early? >> I would hope that they wouldn't do that. You know, >> it did last year, so I'm curious. >> Yeah. Well, just watch it. >> Okay. >> So, I drive through here, too. So, >> chances are if it happened here, it happened in Delwood. So, >> if I have that much snow and no one comes, then I would probably call in without anyone having to say anything. >> Okay. All right. Can I have a motion to approve the contract for Bright View um at the 2in trigger for snow removal? >> Second. >> All in favor? I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. >> Thank you guys. >> Thanks. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Oh, we got under the wire. So, uh, I did get a call from Matt and, >> [snorts] >> uh, just FYI, if anyone was biting fingernails, um, I did get the assurances that they would come out. So, if we had something happen, uh, they said just call, we'll assume something's going to go. So, we were not, uh, exposed without service. >> Okay. Number five, discussion on possible approval for process to allow limited access to public property, a lensure, and an update of the city parking code. Who would like to talk about this? >> Um, >> I guess I'm not quite sure. I think the limited license for public property probably should be visited as part of the item I'm going to add here. Um, I had written some parking code a long time ago to kind of revise it. One of the problems with our parking code is that we've kind of long had a policy that people can park on streets, but we've never actually had an ordinance that overnight. We've never had an ordinance that allowed that people could get a parking permit. And so this kind of clarifies what is allowed and what's not allowed. Um it's a lot more specific than the existing ordinance, clarifies winter parking and some things. Um, now having said that, I don't know what we want to do with this tonight. I'm happy to I think there's a bigger picture here, which is what should we allow to be stored on city property? We have different rules for easements, different rules for parks, different rules for streets. Um, do we want to consider what should be allowed on private property? What are um, you know, what we allow for storage in front yards, for example? And I I went through and kind of based on what I know about the codes and and just marked up all these sections that kind of cover this. So I think we have a couple of options tonight. One is we can pass the parking code and move forward to a second reading. Another option is I think we might want to just push this into a workshop and have kind of a council discussion on what we should do with stuff. what should we do with all of our birchwood stuff? Um, and and should we do just kind of some broadscale revisions because I don't I don't think what we have works well for us. Um, so and I don't, you know, this is a long meeting. Um, are there preferences and if if we want to have a lot of discussion, let's push that to a workshop. If people think, hey, the parking code is great and a good start and we're not going to have to revise it again, maybe we pass that. I'm kind of fine with whatever. Um, I'm also fine with let's just take this under advisement and look at it again in a couple weeks. >> What do you recommend, Ryan? >> Uh, I think we should probably push it into a workshop and I think people should think if you don't care, that's fine. Um, but I'm more than happy to go through and revise a whole bunch of ordinances if that's what we want to do. And I think it would be better to do is kind of one all-consuming thing, but you might just think about what your vision is for whether people should, for example, store trailers in their front yards. And what about construction materials? Just think about your vision there and then let's just push this into a workshop. I think that that would be probably my recommendation. You know, I think it needs to be fixed. I don't think it's that urgent. >> Do you think it needs to be fixed in December? because picking a meeting or having a workshop in December is going to be a little bit of a challenge as far as >> well I don't know that it needs to I mean if this sits for a couple months that's fine otherwise if people want to that's fine I'm not that worried >> I also don't want to tell people they can't store their boat or whatever in their on their own property so I'm of the opinion >> we do currently tell them that >> they can't unless it's in the backyard >> we >> no no I know that portion but I mean as far as Like this states it has to be an unobstructed view. If you take into account my property, I don't have any unobstructed view area. I'd have to put up a fence. >> So that's are you what what are you looking at here? Are you looking at >> um just in general when I was reading the private property portion that I'm like >> this would be tough. >> I'm hearing it's a longer discussion. We should push it to workshop >> like in January. >> No, it uh we have to have a Okay. So, are you saying that you would like to then talk about the 2026 road plan in January? >> I think we have to have a workshop in December. >> That's what I'm thinking because then Marcus, he needs to get on writing contracts and stuff, >> but let's just let's just push this to our next workshop, whether it's December or >> January. This is not time critical, but the other stuff might be. So, I think we can talk about >> Well, that's up to you guys, too. >> So, >> whatever. Okay. So, you want to push it? >> Let's Let's push it and just because it sounds like Kathy wants to I don't I think that's great. Like, let's just start talking about >> Okay. >> I do think it's work that should be done, but I don't think it needs to be done Decemberish. We could do it next year. >> Yeah. I I' I'd like to get it done before um spring. >> So, February. Let's do it in February. Well, I don't know about that, but this is before spring. Okay. Um, are we good then? Just moving this out. Then we move on to the next thing, which is what [snorts] the schedule. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Ryan, you want to talk about that? >> So, fees, um, there's just a number of provisions to fees. The water, um, changes are incorporated into there. Um, one of the things that we're going a lot of things are just kind of cost of living increases. Um, trying to keep the fees associated with the staff were kind of consistent with actually paying for the cost it takes to process them. One area of the fee schedule that's going up a little more significantly is conditional use permits, variances, and those those things. Those are incredibly time consuming for um staff to do. Um and I think we had talked, Jen and I had talked a little bit about an arrangement where we actually make a payment to staff based on processing of variance um because of the because of the work involved there. Um I think I think we expect to hash that out, but uh it's kind of a a broad rambling overview. Um, I'm happy to entertain questions. >> So, Ryan and I just sat down and went through all this together. Um, another change, I guess, what prompted it was the rental of this facility. Um, it was $25 for 24 hours. That doesn't even cover like lights, water, um, having someone come in and clean before and after. So that's kind of what prompted us to look through all of it. And then we needed to update our water and sewer fees anyway for 2026. So >> we needed to get rid of that chicken license and food license. >> There will be no CD available >> for data requests. I'm so sorry. I don't have a CD burner anymore. [laughter] >> They have to bring their own zip drive. >> Yeah. I I do think we have to look and double check the water fees um one more time, but we can do that as part of the second reading to make sure we got everything right here. >> Okay. >> Yeah, you've passed those obviously through the resolution. >> Yeah, >> we I pulled out the resolution. >> Yeah, we didn't get there yet. We the passing we're just going to skip the resolution because we'll do it here with the fee schedule. >> Yeah, that was the other thing that I told Shel too. So, no problem. Did you match what Shelley had for the fees in here? Okay, >> we have the numbers, so we'll just update it in the list. >> Okay. >> I was surprised to see the boat slip permit fee go, >> the boat slip one, >> is that for individuals on their own property or is that through the dock association one? >> But I don't know if we have to talk to the doc association about that first. >> We don't. It says set and collected by doc association doc association fees. >> Yeah. So that is >> is there a liaison on that one? I don't remember >> me. You are >> why don't you why don't you talk to them between now and the second reading. >> Okay. >> If it's if it says set by them I'd like them to >> they can set whatever they want for the annual boat slip permit fee. They charge a fee higher than the Birchwood fee. We set a fee and then they set a fee higher than that. >> So there's two fees there, but only one of them is a city fee. >> I see. >> And the this the addition there is insurance and putting the dogs in and out and so on. So >> okay. So what's our action on this then for the fee schedule? >> Let's pass it as a reading. uh up are all the ones that you actually made changes to marked on here. >> This there's a new column >> that new column right >> as the proposed fee. There are a couple things that are kind of struck through and those will get removed. And then >> I did make some changes to correct some of the ordinance references, but I didn't really call those out because it's not necessarily germanine to the consideration of the ordinance. >> Okay. So, like the demolition fee, that's one you're changing because it's in the sec that other column, right? Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. Ryan made the motion to consider this the first reading. >> I move to consider to adopt or to pass the fee schedule as a first reading and move and schedule a public hearing next month. >> Can we also put some language in that we're going to touch base with the tax committee? Um uh I further move to direct the mayor too. >> Can you direct the mayor? >> No. No, I can direct her all I want. I mean I can direct do all the time. >> You mean can direct my wife too. It doesn't work. [laughter] >> I I I further move to request that the mayor touch base with the doc association on the on the fee increase. Can I have a second, please? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Opposed? Hearing? None. Motion passes. >> Are we significantly under um underwater on our because we have a lift station replacement fee or is that for a >> That's capital improvementesque kind of Okay. Oh, good. >> [laughter] >> That's what it is is. Yep. That's exactly what it is. >> Going into the sewer fee. The sewer fee is going >> and that's the one that's on with the water. >> Not sewer fee. The water fee is for >> it's the one she mentioned. Okay. >> Sometime in the our future. All right. Um lake outfall that was struck right for number seven we removed. Number eight is the discussion of the workshop. If you want to wait until January to talk about the um 2026 road plan, that would be fine. I'm sure Marcus wouldn't mind. He's scrambling to get all that together, but um up to you guys, but I would like to have a workshop either January. Is he requiring a workshop to be able to apply for that grant? >> Okay. It's just he and I have been working up two scenarios on how we could use the money that's already set aside for 2026 for the roads and we want to get council, you know, obviously get your opinions on it before we move forward. >> Can we do December 2nd? Can people do it? >> I can. >> I would be fine with it. always me. My schedule sucks every every day. So, >> do you want to >> um I would like to be there on that one because I have thoughts about people putting stuff if we're including that in the workshop. I don't think I can make it on the second since I'm uh not in town until >> Okay, that's um late that night. >> Would we want to do a long one on the 9th and front end the truth and taxation? >> I think we have to front end that one that meeting anyway though because we have the what's that group that comes in for the truth and taxation? >> Yeah, it's going to be a long one regardless. So you're going to have your delinquency. >> We have we have to come in early for that one, right? >> 6:15 is what we talked about truth and taxation or did we talk about 6:00? Yeah, I think it was 6 to 6:30 and then Yeah. >> So it's not terribly long, but if you want to actually front end um a workshop, I think you should dedicate a couple of hours to that between the roads and the parking. >> I think I'd prefer to push it to January if we can. Okay. Okay. Um, do you want to schedule that now before before everything goes Okay, >> that would be fabulous if we could get that. >> Uh, how does January 6 sound? >> I hate doing this without Is there anything any legal holidays on January 6? >> Don't think so. >> I know. omology. [laughter] >> That would make total sense that you do. >> What time were you thinking? 6 6:30. >> 6:30 I can get here. Okay. >> All right. >> 6:30. [snorts] >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, let's just keep it to the roads and the storage or whatever. >> Yeah. I want to add an item on Halls Marsh >> for the sixth. >> Yep. >> Roads, Halls, Marsh, and um what was this? Parking. >> Parking. >> Roads, parking, and Hall's Marsh. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And that's 6:30. >> Yes. >> Um Okay. Okay, let's go back to what we pulled out and see, which is resolution authorizing water and sewer rates. Ryan, >> um, long story short, we just passed it already, so let's just skip it. >> You just didn't want to pass it in the consent agenda before we did the >> No, we can't revise fees by resolution. No, >> we're not allowed to. We just passed a ordinance revising fees. So there's no need to pass the resolution. >> If you want a longer explanation, I can give you one. >> That's okay. Thank you, Ryan. [laughter] >> We're just going to go with that. All right. Uh G, acceptance of bid from Woodchuk and approval of payment in the amount of 19,800 for tree removal in Paulie's Park. >> So here's my question as I read that. I mean, I love the idea that we're getting rid of those trees. Um but I think about the storm damage that we had and all the trees that fell over and knocked the lines down and would we be better off using that money to take those at risk trees out so we minimize that kind of event again. >> Isn't that what Excel was doing though? >> Isn't that what Excel was doing? >> Excel only does the ones that power lines go through. Yeah. So they they will only do the ones with power lines in them, but it's not necessarily the ones across the street or the >> So it's just I just raised the question. >> I don't know. I think >> it's kind of Rob and Peter to pay Paul like they all need to come down. >> They do. And this is just a start. I I'm not sure where we are on our tree budget, honestly. I think we spent it. >> I don't think we spent the 15 at all because >> So, this would go hasn't done any of it. Yeah. >> Already. >> Correct. It would be 4,800ish over because I think we did 15,000. >> Yeah, we did do 15,000. >> But, >> but I I do agree we might want to address the ones along the road. Um, not that I don't want Paulie's Park to be addressed, but >> Well, this is what we have the quote for though. We don't have the quote for anything on the road. Yeah, >> I don't I guess I would just let Excel do that. I mean, and I think we need to revisit the Excel situation, but I guess to me if we we run a risk there of doing work that Excel would do, >> I'm going to pay them to do work they would do for free. >> And the other thing I don't I'm not disagreeing with you, but when I think back to those trees that did come down over the road, they weren't dead. >> Yeah, they're all live trees. Yeah, that's true. >> That was the weird thing about it. >> I was moving all the leaves on, >> right? Same. [laughter] >> I just thought about that like, oh my gosh. >> Um, >> it's hard to predict which ones are going to come down. >> Can we can is that negotiable that quote >> wanting to do up to 15,000? $1,000 worth of trees because that's that's what we budgeted, right? >> Yeah, I'd be okay with the 15,000 a lot of things though this year. >> What do you what's your what's your concern? >> It's my concern is I think that oftent times tree removal companies will remove the trees if you tell them how much money you have to spend on the trees. So >> like I have $15,000 and I need these trees removed. >> How many quotes? >> You get a couple quotes. >> Yeah. Birch and Woodchuk. >> I mean on the other hand, street sweeping companies will stop after they hit your budget, >> which I mean I'm I guess I'm okay if we >> if we do the 15,000 of trees gets removed and then we have to go back and get a couple more later if we need to. The thing is is like what he was explaining to me, they come in with big equipment. So, you're having them come back out the second time with this equipment. It's >> it's not coste effective, but >> I mean, we're going to spend more on um we spent more last year on quite a bit. I'm not sure that we're above that in the red already. What do you mean >> as far as overall budget? As far as what we had budgeted for various things, I know we were uh higher on snow plowing. We were like there were other So I don't know that us being lower on like the road budget and things like that was offset to the point of where we have extra money. >> Well, I'd like to take trees down. Need to get trees. >> Any tree down is good. I was just raising. Should we should we >> focus on the others? >> And if I may, >> since it is winter, it's a great time to take trees down. >> Yes, it is. >> And so this bid is about 20 grand. And so if you had to winnow it down, I think I would ask Woodchuk to present another bid and see just how much of that needs to be done with the crane truck with the big equipment because your mo fees are going to be substantial. >> And so if you can get that out of the way and do some of the other stuff with just climbers or you know other equipment without having to bring in big equipment, if you are going to split hairs, that's the way I'd split it if you're price sensitive. I would just do the whole thing. It's only another $4,000 >> done. I mean, >> I'm just saying if you have to do it again and they miss one, it's going to cost a fortune to bring in that truck for just a couple of trees. So, you're getting 36 of them done. So, >> I was going to add more to this. I was going to ask you guys for a cap if we could cap it out at like 21,000 and then have the There's two huge ones on Wildwood. Um, what is that, Ryan? Wildwood Park there. >> Oh, there's Yeah, Wildwood Park. >> Those need to come down. >> Really? Probably needs to be addressed, >> right? So, actually, I was going to ask for more than this and have those two added is really bad, too. And I'm I'm surprised that Excel hasn't taken that. >> They're so backed up on tree removal, though, that they're super slow. Like unless the tree is >> just have wood check come out and like cut a bunch of them right into the power line so Excel takes care. >> Right. >> Can you can we um can you just like u someone make a motion to have don't spend more than this so we can move on some tree removal. I don't want to push this out another month. >> You want John? >> Just give me a cap. Whatever you guys think is reasonable and I'll go back and talk to him about it. Honestly, I'm fine with going a little over budget on this. [snorts] So, I would be What is the What is the amount there? So, I don't >> This is 198. >> I moved to I'm fine with 198. Anybody want to make sure we stick to budget? I'm not that worried about our budgets look fine. >> And for 20 grand, if they're here, we could ask them to throw a couple of trees in, >> right? And and I I definitely want them to take those wildwood down wildwood trees down, too. Y >> um here's what the quote says in case anybody's listening. Tree removal project at Pol Park will need smaller unmarked diseased trees removed beforehand, which is the small is like anybody can drop them, even me. Um >> I'll come out with a chainsaw sometime if somebody wants to help me a little bit to do it. I will. This time of year is great. Like if somebody wants to do some smaller stuff, fine. >> I'll do it. >> Like bigger. Sure. Give me give me a weekend warning. We'll do it. >> Okay. Price includes um chip brush, haul logs, and cut stumps low as possible. Remove large piles of brush and logs stacked along access path to park. Um remove 36 marked, diseased, and potentially hazardous green ash and poly's park using crane truck setup and park area pass brush log piles. And those piles are Oh, it's a whatever. doesn't even charge for that. So 36 trees for $20,000 or 198. >> They're saying that there's 36 trees in Palace Park that require the crane. >> No, that's 101. >> Oh, that's a total. Okay, that makes more sense. >> That's what I'm saying. It might be a lot different bid if you just say, "What do you need the crane truck for?" >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because that's where a lot of that charge is going to come in. >> There's only like two of them in the Twin Cities anyway. They always They all rent them out. Can we authorize? So, if we authorize $20,000 >> for >> and I'll negotiate to get the biggest bang for our buck >> for for Jen to use at her discretion for tree removal. Would that be okay? >> I' I'd second that, I guess. >> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. So, I move to authorize up to $20,000 um for tree removal to be dis dispensed or to be authorized at the mayor's discretion. Um, the mayor along with the acting city administrator's discussion. >> Mayor does not act unilaterally on anything. >> Well, I mean, I think what Okay, fine. I make it seriously. >> Can you amend the motion to I amend the motion to say whatever Jen said. >> I got it. >> Thanks. Thanks. >> All right. Thank you guys. I just want to get moving on this because I know a lot of us want some dead trees down and we didn't do any. I mean, Jim and Ron have been working, but um I think they've taken down maybe between 10 and 15. >> Just over 22 people. >> Yeah, that's pretty good for two people. >> Let's get a vote before minds change. >> Okay, let's Oh, all uh Okay. [laughter] Any more discussion? >> Did we get a second? >> I thought you did. >> Oh, there wasn't a second. >> Bridget second. Um all in favor? >> Opposed? >> Hearing none. Motion passes. Thanks, Ryan. Um, oh, what was the next one? L I'm sort of a Grinch on this. I love this paid leave program. I'm so glad it's going to be implemented in Minnesota, but I don't think that we need to pay the full premium. I think that we should do it like I think everybody else is doing and have the employee pay their portion and the um city pay its portion. >> Is that how it's generally being done? Yes. >> Yes. Then I would do it the way it's >> um there was some Can you tell tell them why we thought >> I would simply offer that the the increment is so small it's really not worth it just because there's such a small bench in Birwood. So it really amounted like a couple hundred. >> Yes. It was like $300 and the counting work is a is much more difficult if um we split it. Um did you have discussions with Marca on that? >> Yeah, we we all did basically in the office. So >> that's why the recommendation is just to cover it because again it's just such a small number. >> 300 a year. >> Yeah. >> I mean literally it's that it's I'm not going to say it's peanuts because to some people that's a lot of money but um for the administration of it just to parse that out is just not worth it. >> Um I was wrong. It's 436 >> total >> for the year. Well, small business is872.97 employee 50/50. Is that right, Alan? Make sure I'm reading this correctly. >> That much per employee. >> Says currently the city of Birchwood Village has eight employees in the previous five quarters. The city is classified as a small business, meaning the premiums would be due at the 66% rate. >> We count as employees if you're wondering how that works. Oh, we pay in. We pay into this even though we don't qualify for >> gifters pay into it. >> Everybody pays in. >> So, if we wanted to request our tax money back, we're welcome to do that for our >> what is it like 33 cents or whatever it would be. >> Um, let's see. I'm just trying to read through this not to make sure I'm not >> but is is that per >> month per year? That's total per year is four something. >> So [snorts] she put township, but I'm pretty sure she means the city. If the city pays 100%, it would cost us $872.97. If the city pays 50 and lets the employee pay 50, we're talking 436. So yeah, it's going to cost us an extra 436. >> If we just pay 100% >> per employee >> total. >> Total. Oh, total >> $436 total >> if we cut. >> That's on the basis of 130. We'll say 132,000 in gross. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, it's really not that much. >> I think time saved is >> Yeah. If it's time saved, that's fine. >> Yeah. >> I wasn't in on that entire discussion with Marca, but she was mentioning the accounting end of it. If we do 100% it's way easier. I don't know. Do you remember any details on that? >> What was the detail part? >> What Marcia was talking about um the accounting end of it. >> Well, simply that it's the drudgery of having to keep those things separate and so what you lose in efficiency you might gain. But uh it's kind of a wash. >> I take that question back. >> I don't need to be a Grinch. >> Well, someone can move it then as it is. >> So moved. I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Who got credit for the motion? >> Kathy. >> Kathy. >> And the second >> I Ryan. >> Yeah. >> All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. Count as Ryan senior. How do we differentiate? [laughter] >> Henkins is fine. >> And the last one. >> I don't I don't think I've earned seniority yet. >> About um >> got two years on it. >> Our balance sheet. Mhm. >> Do we have any idea where we're going to end up by the end of the year? I I can't figure it out. I mean, I'm looking. They make no sense to me. >> Bridget, I am so glad you said that. >> This is what's going to happen. >> That's what I tell my husband all the time. I'm like, you know, I I'm not I don't think I'm an idiot, but man, I just look at this stuff and say, I think what makes it difficult is that um a lot of our expenses are seasonal. So [snorts] like when we come up to we can't really plan. I mean we can assume based on history what the year is going to end up like. We can't really have a final figure on anything. >> Like I told you before like I feel like I need the tea account. I guess one of the things, >> you know, I need the >> one of the things I've thought for a while and I'm not 100% certain, but I think if you plotted our our fund balances year after year, even though we budget for what we think we are, I think we gradually are increasing the amount of funds we have in the bank. So, I think we generally underspend our budgets. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but it sure looks that way. Well, part of that is that we had money set aside for things like the lift station that is was banked, per se, but yeah, overall I think we still have >> we kept >> money in the bank, whatever we call it, >> and then interest on that >> a little higher because we wanted to we were concerned that for example, the lift station grant could go away. >> So, we wanted to um it it might be worth just hate to commit to it because I'm just um it might be worth just doing a couple plots, but last time I promised that I didn't manage. So um >> but could Marsha come and talk to us or >> provide? Agreed. Yeah, absolutely. That seems that seems really smart. >> An overview of what it is she's seeing? Plus, we're straightlining the budget rather than putting costs in the months that we think that they're going to occur. >> That's true. which then can come back and bite us. >> That's true. >> I don't know this budget. I look at it every time. It's like I don't know. >> It I think it it does seem to me like having Marca come in and just giving us a having you ask her questions with everybody here so we can all hear and understand. It sounds like a really good idea to me. >> Is she coming to our >> even a workshop? >> Yeah. Uh and then as a general practice every month for her to have her sort of editorial on what she's seen compared to last year compared to >> we used to just get some treasurers notes every month. Mary Cahill did a great job of that. >> That's pretty typical >> to see more of a of a year-to-ate snapshot. At least that's what I'm used to seeing just because how do you know where you're going if you don't know where you are? If you want, I can have her come in in December. It's a good time to actually have that discussion. >> Well, we have the the meeting anyway for >> Yeah. Truth and taxation. >> Be good to have her here for that if at all possible. >> Yeah. Be good for our next council meeting. >> Yeah. Because we have to approve the budget, >> correct? >> In December. >> Okay. >> But like if we're way under this year, then doesn't that impact our budget for next year? I would think it would, but I don't know if we are way under. That's why I'm wondering. Yeah, >> I don't know for sure. I don't know that we're way under. It just feels to me like I mean, having read the budgets for a number of years that the city budgets the amount in the accounts would max out at 600 and then it would max out at 700. Now we're up over 1.11.2 million. And that may not may partly just be because our budgets are going up, but it definitely seems like we budget for what we expect to spend and yet the money in the account keeps going up, which >> I'm going with to do. Yeah. >> No, it should invest >> kind of stay even, right? If you budget for savings, [clears throat] you should have savings in the amount you budget it, but >> Well, I mean, we do have it in investments though, too. So, I would hope that they are doing well enough to get us some, but yeah, >> we get three 3% interest and that, you know, that's 30 grand a year. So, that's something. >> Well, let's start by having Marca come in next month. I think that would be great. >> Alan, would you be able to invite her? >> Yeah, I think she'll be here anyway, but I'll ask her to at least have her uh >> All right. >> be prepared for us because I thought I was the only one that when I look at some of these things, I'm just like I just don't really know. >> I had done that um where you go into the office and then sit with the accountant and go through them and even after that I was like >> still I'm not quite sure but it looks lovely. >> I mean the numbers look good. I don't see anything, you know, >> nothing's in the red important part. >> That's what I keep looking. I'm like that bottom line looks really good to me. So >> the checks were bouncing but it wasn't the budget. [laughter] Okay, Ryan. Is there anything else? >> All right, so our December 9th city council meeting uh I'm on to announcements will feature the truth and taxation hearing as well as a public hearing with delinquent utility bills. >> Before you get that far, should we approve the balance sheet? Oh, >> that was the ask under M. >> Oh, we pulled it out. Good. >> I move to approve the balance sheet and the dispersement >> and the dispersements. >> All in favor? >> I >> opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for the reminder. >> You okay? Announcements. Um, as I was saying, the December 9th city council meeting will feature the truth and taxation hearing as well as a public hearing regarding delinquent utility bills and certifications. >> What is that? That second one public hearing regarding delinquent utility bills. >> So that's when um [snorts] what is the group that comes in? I don't know what the tax was it Washington County. >> That's not this. >> This is um actually water bills. Yeah, the public it's just for delinquent water bills, utility billings. So, >> sorry, I was thinking it was >> hearing goes on and then it goes to gets reported to the county and then it gets assessed to the taxes. >> The letters have already gone out to residents who are passed through on their water bills. >> So, they've had notice so they get a time period to either pay or come in >> dispute basically it >> and then after that it goes to the county for collections. >> So, it requires a public hearing. The truth and taxation one is the one where the gentlemen come in and talk about people's taxes and people have complained about as far as their values of the >> um number two. The city may have a short special meeting to approve the hire of another administrative support person prior to the December's meeting and disuss Okay. So we still might have to have a meeting. Um interviewing is beginning next week. >> Yep. Um >> that's um Tuesday, >> Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. >> I think Tuesday. I don't know. There's at least two of them. They're scheduled for Tuesday. I don't know how many total there are, >> but uh >> for Monday and Wednesday, >> with any luck at all, we'll have someone surface by the end of next week. So, might require a special meeting just to approve the hire. Mhm. >> Um, just I don't know if we've talked about this or if it was at a meeting that I Yeah, you guys approved Teresa's sister when I wasn't here. >> Correct. >> That's working out really well. >> Um, replacement for that. >> Okay. She doesn't want to work. >> Well, that makes sense. >> Regular, just a sub. >> Yes. I was gonna say she was doing us a favor of sorts. >> Yeah, she liked it. Um, so the newsletter submissions is the 19th. That would be enough time. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um Oh, yeah. And then the power outage um on November 20th. It's a larger scope than just Birchwood Lane and Wildwood. I think it's going to be Avenue. >> Yeah, city hall's closed because >> so we'll have to see how that goes. Do we have any residents along there that um because it is winter? Where are they going to go if it gets too cold if the power is out here? >> Let's look at the 10day. >> Um I don't know, but it's only from It's supposed to be 9 to one. >> Shall I check the weather report? It looks to me like that tree down there will probably not take four hours. It would probably take >> Yeah, it would take the morning, but >> yeah, I I expect I mean we can refer people to the library or something. It seems to me like >> I don't think it's supposed to be frigidly cold yet. >> I was going to say 40 45. >> Okay. >> Um >> I would think that XL sends out something that says your power's going to be out, too. >> You can send people to my house and I'll start a fire. >> Okay. Oh, I have a tree to burn. [laughter] >> All right. Um, number five is, uh, city staff evaluations are going to be completed within the next month and the city hall will be closed for Thanksgiving. I do want to um read this nice little thank you note if you would let me. Um, I just got it tonight from Alan Mitchell. The city of Birchard Village, please accept this donation toward the new netting being installed on the hockey rink at Ty Schmidtz. This enhancement will help prevent pucks from flying over the boards and potentially hitting walkers, cars, and garages. Most of all, the skaters will benefit the most. It will um and will appreciate not having to search the street for lost pucks. Thank you for all you do. And that's from Jerry and Jackie Carlson at [snorts] 409 Lake. And then they included a donation for the netting. >> Thank you. >> This is very nice. >> Um, is there anything else anybody would like to announce? I was hoping to have the date of the holiday party. Um, we're having our meeting on Monday, so I will have it later for a email at some point for the December children's andor other party. Um, I also have worked up a um an order form for Birchwood Gear. >> Yay. >> So, maybe when I get it just right, I've been pricing it and things, I'll send it out to you guys and maybe we can include it in the newsletter. >> Okay. I want to get everybody's opinion before I do that. And then, um, >> have a display at the holiday. >> You sure? [laughter] >> Yeah, that'd be good. >> Have a display. What? at the holiday party >> if you can turn around orders quick enough where you can >> I'm not ordering anything until we get the like >> No, no, I mean as far as like the >> the samples. I can take pictures. >> If we have samples at the holiday party and someone wants it for a gift. >> Oh, I see. >> Depending on how quickly you can turn that around. >> I can try. >> I don't know when the date is. It might be really soon. I >> I'll see what I can do. Um, I think that was it though. Okay. >> Anything else? Are we done? >> Move to adjourn. >> Oh, >> can I have a second on that? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you everyone once again. >> Lovely to work with you.