and read as well for baseball. Part of our reservations do include ball fields, shelters, and courts. Uh currently, this is how our um reservations uh sit right now. Ball fields are $50 per day, and $500 for the season. All of which is refundable. Our shelters are similar. There's a $50 a day, $100 a day for non-residents. Again, everything is uh refundable. Those are deposits uh made um at the time of reservations and then if if they're clean or if they're they don't uh deserve any staff time afterwards, those are all refundable. Our All Lions Park shelter, which is uh consists of the concession stand uh and bathrooms there. Again, $25 a day, $75 for a non-resident. Uh that does uh go hand inand with reservations of the ball field. Again, everything is re uh refundable on the Lionsburg shelter as well. Our courts um those are mainly uh we see a lot of our reservations right now for our groups or our clubs that are reserving our courts if it be tennis or if it be pickle ball at the current time. Again, they can reserve any amount of days of $500 for the season. All of it which is refunded. Just one thing to add with the ball fields is we do have the lighting policy as well. We do have lights on our pickle ball courts as well as our fields, BFW and Lions. Um those fees I did describe in in April, but I have in a later slide as well, but um lighting fees are subject to a non-refundable fee of $20 per reservation or $150 for the season. Um, there is a slight charge for if the ball game goes longer and the lights aren't shut off with a certain time, there's another $30 charge. Again, that's based off citizen complaints and not based off of a timer or staff being there to see that or anything like that. So, couple of the proposals that I present to you tonight again are um um items that we put together as staff just as discussion with public works director as well as um staff um with the city ball fields. We're looking at two different um we're looking at separating it to a summer and fall season. So, in the summer be April to July. That'd be $50 a day if somebody wanted to rent that. So, if a family came or individual came and they just want to rent the field for a day, that'd be $50 or $500 for that season. Majority of our field rentals are done by the Lake Emple Baseball Association or another association if it be uh St. Croy or um you know, a non a for-profit agency in the fall. You'll see that more in the fall of an a for-profit agency that's just baseball related renting the ball fields. Um so splitting those into two seasons will um you know kind of separate that from the nonprofit versus the profit uh organizations. Um again same price versus fall. Um fall season is a little bit shorter but um again that's likely you're going to see that profitable um organization rented at that time. We do have them separated as well as far as uh ball fields. Lions and VFW do have lights and for um outfield fences um kind of better amenities. So we do separate that out with pebble de Montville reed and tablin. Those are just going to be your um red ball infield clay fields. No outfield fence normally not lined bases aren't there. So a lot of times those clubs are providing that um those amenities for that field. So uh reduced price of for those. Um again they don't have irrigation either. So, we're looking at $250 for this season because again, we are seeing them rent the those all the way from April to July for those regular seasons again. Um, so just separating those ball fields because of those amenities, those extras that are at those um those two larger fields. Moving on to shelters, both Lions uh park shelter and our regular pavilion shelters that we have throughout our parks. uh suggestion by by staff would to make would be to make all shelters reservable. So as we continue to put um shelters at for the next five years we have we have that in our work plan is to put a new shelter at each park is to make those reservable. So those are it does add to that park uh but I think people in the south or people in those um where we do places will we'll see that as an amenity to use and um foster for the years to come. So, um, again, making those, um, those shelters available for rental at all parks, uh, splitting those up half day versus full day. Um, I would suggest being the 9 to to three being the half day and the full day being nine to, you know, 9 to 9 with that last hour being clean up because most of our parks are done by um, dusk or 10 o'clock. So, uh, those would be the hours I would set or recommend to set for our half day and full days. I would put a security deposit on that as well that is refundable. So, that way any anybody that would rent the base price would be $100 with $50 coming back or a full day being $150 with $50 coming back. the Lions Park shelter is um looking at our previous reservations with that almost 100% of that comes with reservation of the ball field. So, we do see with our um light up lake ammo event, someone might rent that area or we might see with um you know um our Fourth of July event or something, some somebody might rent the area, but um not foreseeing them reserving it for the concession stand use, electrical use, bathroom use, things like that. So, someone So, if the question comes back or why we have it more for the shelters versus the Lions Park, a lot of times again that Lions Park shelter is going directly with the field as well. We're already charging them one, so that's why it's probably a little bit less, but up for debate as well. Courts, this can get kind of tricky and uh the my description here is going to be uh open for discussion. I I think we'll have a lot of discussion on this one. Um I think the biggest thing the biggest complaints that we have are or I shouldn't say complaints but just the communication from st the community is the amount of reservable courts currently right now a club or organization can come in they can reserve the whole the whole area. So Lions Park um all four of those can be reserved by the club and and so when that family or um just a couple come down to play all those are reserved they they don't have that open space. So, um, one staff recommendation would be is to limit the reservable courts to 50% at each site. So, Lions Park would be two courts reservable. Pebble Park would be up to three courts reservable. Table be up to two courts reservable. Um, Ivywood, we haven't had any problems or issues there. So, that's why I just leave our reservations to our three parks that we currently have right now and not expand that. individual courts. Uh recommendation would be to reserve up to three hours at $20, um for that three-hour period. So, if you were a family member with one reserver court, you could call you get one of the three reservable courts at Pebble, one of the two reservable courts at uh Lions um for a $20 fee. Groups or clubs that reserve for multiple days. Um, this is this is where I think we could have a a discussion on um of whether it's too high, too low. What we do find is that our clubs are reserving that time all week long um and into the weekend for their clubs. Um, and so I think a big part of that will help is our reservation limit, but also reserving that for those two to three days, it gives that club that that opportunity to have that for that those three or four hours. I had three hours, but three hours um for those selected days that they choose, but at a fee of $100 per week. Uh, reservations after 6 PM, which would include Lions and Pebble because we do have lights there. Um, just initiate a $10 lighting fee on that. So, a family of four that would come down there, $20 plus 10. If it was after 6:00, you'd have a three-hour limit. Again, our lights are on on our Pebble Pebble and um Lions Courts up till 10 p.m. So, um so anytime after 6 PM, we'd have that lighting fee in $10. you know their reservation would last three hours but um that extra hour would be for um any additional member or themselves to use. So uh fiscal impacts of of this reservation policy again as I talked uh in April our revenue in 2024 was $300 all of which which came from our lighting fees from our baseball field. Right? So um again that was a non non-refundable fee that um we charged just for the lighting use. Um the cost of our lighting in 2024 was over $6,000. So we see not only and and again that's not all incorporated with baseball. Um, we do have the hockey rink. We do have the pickle ball courts. Um, apple sites. You probably see a higher um lighting cost at Lions uh just because it's more fluorescent versus the new LED lights that we have at at um at Pebble. So, um but we will see that price probably pretty consistent from year year in year out all the way through. So, um I'm not trying to incorpor to get all the fees back, but at least to help pay for the or continue maintenance on that as right now we don't have lights working at BFW or electricians in in tomorrow to fix that. So all all that does incorporate money or costs throughout the year as well just to keep the upkeep open. You know, just some other fees that we have. We do have contracted services for our lawn care for our all of our fields. You know, it does come out to be about over over $4,000. our irrigation. We are upgrading that as irrigation right now with time and labor with our staff. You know, you have your weed and feed. Um irrigation, you know, that's the cost of water as well. That can be up to $16,000 in one year. So, you're irrigating both fields. You're keeping that system going. Um just parts, labor fees, you know, you have a back hole, they're digging up the line that's broken, um and just replacing some of those needed things. Um we'll eventually have that into it. So that's not going to be an expense every year at that at that cost, but uh that's what we're seeing at this time with not having run that in the last several years because of our water um reductions over the last few years. So, um, in order to keep our courts up, um, resurfacing, uh, so when we did the resurfacing of Pebble and Table, uh, in 2024 when they actually opened them, um, we reached out to our resurfacing contractor at that time, and it was about $7,000 for one tennis court. So, if you look at uh, our three courts in, you know, Pebble, you'd be looking at $21,000 to resurface that. and we'll be looking to do that in five years. So again, taking those into account as we, you know, we schedule our fees for our clubs, for our individuals. Again, we're not trying to make money, but also just to, you know, recuperate some of those costs that we're going to have for our users that always use those or want to use those on a regular basis. Overall, I think in an average year, you might be you'd be able to incorporate about $3,000 in rentals from the baseball fields, you know, with four with two seasons at each VFW and Lions. I mean, that could incorporate up to $2,000 there. Um, your Reed Deatraville um Pebble um I think you could get that $250 for at least one season in there. You'll likely get it out of Reed on the second season uh because they use that one in that fall season as well. you know, we do have um Tablin as well as reserve is reservable. Occasionally, we'll see a reservation down there, but not uh full full term. So, I think in an average year, you would be looking at getting from our ball fields about $4,000, and that would include lighting fees with that. Shelters, we don't see a whole lot of reservations with our shelters, but when we do, and I think with our upkeep and our, you know, our continuous improvements of our parks, I think we will see that. But right now, I think you'll see we see um you know, with our baseball fields, a good four to five tournaments a year. Um you know, and then an occasional one at Pebble, we might see $500 to $700 a year in um income for our shelters, courts. Um just based off of this year, you know, you're looking at approximately 28 weeks of of uh available play from the time we put up the the nets until we take them down about the week of Halloween. Um with, you know, up to $500 lighting fees just with those uh people reserving after six o'clock, you would be looking at probably around that four to $5,000 a year um just in reservation fees of that. With that, I'll take any questions. >> Well, let me start off by um a little bit trying to determine how and what we want and where we're going with this. We've provided comments to you before. >> You said in your presentation that you were willing to discuss that. Um, so you're looking for a motion to recommend the changes to the reservation policy presented by staff. Um, my concern is as we go through it that we're keeping track of all of these proposed changes uh from just general questions and comments. So, for the commissioners, somebody's going to have to come up with making um a motion and they'll need to keep track of things we modify, add, subtract uh during that whole process. With that, um we can start out with questioning. Adam, I've got just a basic question about the seasonal charge. Uh is that so is that a a seasonal fee for a rental on a specific day of the week? >> Uh for fields or courts or >> uh both. >> Um so seasonal for a field would be during that time frame. So that's that April through July, right? >> But just one day a week. >> No, that'd be for that whole t that whole time. So $500 for that for those four months or five months. And when could they when can they use the ball field? >> Yep. So they they would schedule that with that. So when they were when they make a reservation, it's no different what they do now. So they'll make a reservations. I want it every I want to >> Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 4 to 4 to 9. >> Okay. >> That's And if they that'd be a seasonal because they want they're they're reserving it from April until July. Okay. >> I mean they're not they're not handpicking. So, it still could be every day. Maybe it's every day of the week, but like you said, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. >> Yep. And that's what a lot of times we see with our with our pickle ball players or our associations is that they're picking a Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or a Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so, it's probably to their advantage to have that, you know, um to have that weekly rate versus the individual on that. >> Okay. Thank you. Other comments or questions? >> I guess being the new person, I had just had a high level question on I think I I went back and read some of the minutes and I think I read them from when this was discussed originally and there was a comment about I just was curious if kind of a market analysis had been done from kind of surrounding areas and if that was taken into consideration at all kind of on a high level. Yeah, we did look at a number of the communities just directly around us. I we think um our shelters are probably underpriced. Um you know, just but it's based off the availability of amenities that we have there. Some of them have power, some of them have access to water, you know, so what what others might provide, it's kind of hard to play apples to apples with them. Um so, but then also what our level of services as well compared to what other communities might be. So, um, you know, we don't have a full-time staff that's coming in, you know, prepping the the the cook, you know, the the grill or, you know, providing wood or whatever it might be, right? So, we, you know, we're providing trash and a clean environment to start with and, you know, up to two picnic tables potentially, right? So, um, so that that probably is the hardest thing to gauge from community to community to find is to find that exact same same item. But as far as like courts and um u ball fields, I think we're um we're probably right in line with what our our neighboring communities are doing. So >> just one thing along that same line, I've got Oak Park Heights shelter thing right in front of me and the prices that we charge and they charge and the deposits are all about the same. One difference is they don't charge for shelters to they distinguish a lot between resident and non-resident. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I see that a little bit in ours, but they seem to make a bigger >> I mean, it's a $100 for a non-resident and that's just the fee where it's nothing for a resident. >> Yeah. On the shelter side of it, I did consider that and we had that in the past one. I took it out of there on the basis of one is our our priority listing, you know, for first of all, I mean, we're going to look at our priority listing when we scheduled those to begin with, but then second of all, we weren't seeing a high number of reservations where we were competing resident versus non-resident. So that's why I was like, well, I'm I'm more on the aptitude of like, let's get people to use them, pay the fees, you know, uh, and continue the um, the use of it and maybe down the line if it becomes an issue, >> right, as we add in the more shelters and do some things like that. I think we just need to keep that in mind, you know, in the comparison that commissioner asked for or ask about, that's one of them right there. I think they all I think Oak Park Heights also has newer better. >> Yeah, a lot of theirs will have bathrooms like Woodberry's the same way. A lot of them will have bathrooms, a more common space with shelter with tables, with chairs, things like that. So, um >> yeah, >> we'll get there. We'll get there. >> Other questions? >> Yeah, thanks, Adam. I've got a question for you. Um, so I'm aware um as likely the other commissioners are of uh reservation challenges at Pebble Park. Um, have you fielded or Marty fielded complaints about Tablin and Lions Park? >> So, um, Lions, yes. And that was probably probably a lot more previous before the new courts. >> Yep. Um but currently right right now with one court down at lines um we do see that as well. We see that the complaints of >> or the questions of like if I brought a family member down there you're telling me that it's reserved and not we ought to wait or we're not even allowed to play. So those are the things we do feel there. Tavon we don't have much of any um any conversation or complaints there. >> Okay great. I guess where I was going with this is um just thinking about the 50% at each site. Um maybe like up to four courts could be reserved at each site which would be 100% at Lions, 100% at Tavlin and leaving some open at Pebble. Um, but if you're fielding complaints at Lions and um, you know, it just seems like it might be hard to play with just two courts reserved if you have a standing group or something. >> Yeah, I think with the updates that we'll see next year with those courts, I think people will come back down because they want to be close to the downtown amenities again. um or it's just a quick access quick walk right from east and you know those downtown areas or even our new northstar development right so I think you'll see those people venture down there because it's a quick walk easy walk to it so I think we'll have a lot more competition there again >> and Ivywood just figures it out >> yeah they do >> there's a lot of wind at Ivywood >> so it kind of limits days to play there >> such such an open spot. I just on the pickle ball um how how is it again kind of on a high level how so if you have groups reserving the courts right now how is that communicated to the general public because >> kind of to your point about the 50% my I was just asked you know is there a way to if they are going to be reserved or having signage that says for open play on these designated dates and times And then there's consistency. So people know if I'm going to a park to play pickle ball, I know that it's going to be open for open play versus I I if you can touch on how that's communicated maybe. >> So in the past we used to post actual signs for reservations. Um and with your question, uh what we do now or we can do is we put actual steel signs up there to mark courts numbers one through six, one through four. That way they're identified, right? So courts one through three are are reservable. Courts four, five and six are non-reservable at all times, right? Um with that being said, um in the past when we did post those, what we were finding is that we were chasing those around all the time to make changes or you know someone dropped a dropped a cancellation for whatever reason. And so we did utilize our website as far as posting that where you could just look up the park, you could who is reserving it from what times. But again, they were reserving all six courts or all four courts. So, it was a lot easier that way. This year, we will get a new uh website where we have incorporated our reservations in there, our park reservations in there. So, that'll be a lot easier for uh members of the community to see that especially when this won't go into effect till next January when that reservation opens. So, it'll be definitely beneficial uh to utilize that so people can actually just pick that part, pick that court or field and know exactly what uh what is reserved and what's not. So, but I think the biggest thing is numbering those courts so we know which ones are reservable, which ones are not, which ones are available for open play. >> Thank you. >> So, a couple comments. Um, it would be really nice next year to have a a link or QR code or something at each court so that they can easily check that schedule, you know, the website or something. >> Yep. >> When people come up. And secondly, you know, when uh, for example, at Pebble, three courts are reserved. The other three courts doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that no one can play. It it's the rotate. The sign says there that you rotate in and out. So if if we each come with a different group, we have to take our turns rotating in and out. It's not that we're completely blocked out, you know. >> Right. >> So are there lights for the volleyball courts in Lions Park? >> There are not. >> No. >> Okay. Right. >> You know, and that's one thing you bring good good thing to bring up, Pat. We we do have a number of reservations throughout the years, mainly two clubs. Um and it's not every week. It's probably, you know, two or three times throughout the summer where they do reserve that. you know, it's not included in um my proposal right now, but it's the commission thinks that we should include that. Um you know, it's part of the the whole plan. Um the reservation is the same. It's a it's a deposit of $50. So, to hold the spot. >> Other questions? >> Yes. So, when the rent a ball field, um does that involve dragging? Like if someone rents it for rents Reed out outside of the Lake Emma Ball Association, if they rent the fields like Reed Park, does that involve dragging or lines ever when they rent it? >> No, it does not. So, we don't The city doesn't own bases. So, we don't provide bases at uh Stonegate, Deontraville, Reed. That's all provided by the baseball who's ever renting it. If it's Lake Yellow Baseball or baseball club, they provide the pitching mount, they provide the bases, they provide if they line it, that's done on their own. Uh dragging uh the city does drag uh Reed, but only um it's by staff like once a week. >> So, um and that's all all >> that's the same as Cly and the other smaller ones. >> Yep. All of our smaller ones. We don't drag uh the FW or Lions. >> Okay. And that's part of the agreement with the ball association. >> Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. >> Um, I think one thing that also jumps out to me that I guess I would like to see is I would like to see some type of clause that says something about um, you know, for special events or something. There might be exceptions where 100% of courts can be reserved at each site. um you know for up to 40 hours a month or I don't know if you want to if you need some qualifiers I think that you could figure out what might be reasonable. Um but I I think that we want to or at least I would urge us to u be thinking for the future if there's going to be some type of you know events or things like that that we want to encourage Other questions? >> Question about the security deposit for the shelters. $50 that pay for the amount of time it would be to clean up. I'm wondering if that's high enough. >> Um and and just the damage aspect if that's a concern. I don't know if it is or not, but >> yeah. So, um that's a good good comment. I mean, like we're a lot of times we're providing um one to two garbage cans, right? Um potentially, you know, like I said, picnic tables, one to two potentially, just depending on location. So, yeah, if those are damaged, is it likely more than $50? 100%. Right. It is. Um, so, you know, staff's time of fixing and, you know, repairing that, likely $50 is not covering um that or even having two people out there pick up trash that, you know, was tipped over or ran over, whatever it may been. >> Do you want to change it? >> I'm just asking questions at this point. >> All right. Well, you can make the proposal then. >> Any other questions? Um, no, sorry. Okay, we're looking for a motion from one of us. The recommendation there is given by the staff, but we are free to add or subtract or modify that as needed. Is there a motion? >> Um, >> would would we be able to discuss that as a commission? >> That's the way it goes. You make a motion and then we discuss it. >> Were you asking if we could discuss in advance of a motion? >> I was. Well, you really shouldn't, but >> we regularly do. >> We regularly do. If there's something you'd like to discuss, yes, discuss it. Okay. Um, I guess I So, let's discuss the volleyball reservation. Let's discuss the security deposit and let's discuss the 50% of courts. >> Okay. Okay. >> I'm I'm personally in favor of having just 50% of the courts reservable. I think that we've received enough complaints. I've experienced it personally. We've seen the complaints. I can totally understand the the frustration of just uh individuals that want to use a court in the evening and and to go there and to have them all rented out to me just seems um contrary to what a public park is for. I'm also in favor of the possibility of having reservations and people that want to make reservations, but having it 50% kind of balances it out. So, um I like that. What about since you were talking about the deposit upping that, do you have a number? Well, do we want to Does anybody else have input on >> the 50% yet or? >> Well, I think it's obvious. I mean, $50, what you're going to get maybe two guys out there for an hour or something like that. It's nowhere near going to cover if somebody really dumps everything all over the place. And yet, we know probably we will never cover everything. >> So, I mean, you could easily go to 100. You could easily go to 75. Yeah, I times it times three. Honestly, >> you could do it times three. >> So, it was refundable. >> Yeah, they're going to get all their money back, >> you know. And and and one thing maybe I didn't mention too is with that reservable, what do you what are you getting, right? So, you not only are you getting that pavilion or that shelter space, but you know, you have access to the open space, you have access to the playground. It's not secluded directly to you, but you know, we have a group there for that six hours or 12 hours. I mean, you have you have access to those, right? You you'd still have access to the pickle ball courts if no one was at them. You could definitely use them. But so, you know, to to your comment, Peter, um you know, do you want to put it too high that people just don't do it, you know, or do you want to put it so it's you know, it's it's affordable so that we continue to continue to see use of it as well. um and see what you know what that next pavilion might look like or what are what are the needs of those pavilions in the future. >> But we were speaking specifically to a refundable security deposit. Correct. >> Right. Yeah. >> Yep. >> I feel like I would definitely be in favor of making the refundable security deposit for the shelters $100. Um, I feel like if we say times two or times three or I don't know, that feels a little more messy to me. But >> no, I I Yeah, we can come up with a number. I was just Oak Park Heights here has $150 for their refundable rental deposit for a shelter, >> but they have water and electricity and other things. >> There is different. >> You can do a lot more damage. >> That's true. That's true. I mean, I could support a hundred. I think that that's fair. I think that somewhat covers cost if you had to send a staff person out there, but not trying to recoup. We're we're not trying to recoup >> all right >> costs in general in this plan anyway. So, >> and to Adam's point, >> you don't want to deter >> people from utilizing the amenities, I think, as well. Any additional comments on volleyball or the reservable non-reservable? >> Yeah, I think it would be a good idea to to seriously think about having lights for volleyball. >> I think it would be a good idea to have volleyball at um Lions Park as reservable. I think would be a little bit more transparent if groups show up and then you know >> there's only one volleyball court there. Is that right? >> Yeah. And then there's another volleyball court at Pilot Park. >> Pilot? Yeah. But there's no there no lights. >> Yeah. And no lights. >> Yeah. So, Lions has two volleyball courts. >> Oh, they do set. I >> I think that with the idea of making Lions Park a more, you know, central park for the city down the road. You know, I I think that it would be ideal to have the lights there for for the volleyball courts. >> All right. We have we discussed this before enough. Somebody ready to make a motion. Do >> you have a rate for volleyball court rental or just keep the same as a pickle ball or >> um I think keeping it the same as pickle ball would make sense. Calling it a court reservable pickle ball courts and volleyball courts and then just 50% no reserve one >> everything the same. >> This is the start of your motion. Before you do that, administrative, how often are these is this reviewed yearly? >> Uh, this is our first time we reviewed it. >> I am going to make a recommendation that every January we review this. >> That's what I was going to ask if we could imple that that it's at least reviewed on an annual basis. >> I wonder if it would be good to do at the end of the season. You know, January is kind of far away from complaints we might receive during the summer. >> Um, yeah, I I think it's going to be wherever you want to put it, you know. um the end of the year, you could put it in the fall. It always takes us what, two or three months to go through this. So, you can't put it in December or it's not going to be implemented till another year later. So, you need to at least start in September or so to get it done. But that would be my recommendation is and September you'd be at the end of the heavy use season. So, maybe that's a good time to do it. But it just needs to be brought back for at least review every year. You would need it for the f the next year's budget cycle. Correct. If you were if we made any changes that would have fiscal impacts. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it should probably be earlier, but >> Right. But also, can't rentals start January 1st? I mean, sign up for rentals is >> uh start January 15th. >> This is why you're going to figure it out because there is a number of factors that could put it in a lot of different places. But again, I think it's just important that we look at it every year. It's been three years. It's been too long. All right, back to the object of the day is to get a motion that would address all of the things that were proposed by staff plus these additional things that we have talked about. Can I get a motion? I'll make a motion to recommend to city council the changes to the Lake Elmo reservation policy as presented by staff with the following changes. To increase the refundable security deposit for the shelters to $100 and to add volleyball courts at Lions Park to the reservation policy with the proposed court rules. >> I would second that. discussion on the item. Again, my opinion is we need to make changes to this. We need to make these improvements uh and we need to look at it in the future. So, um I support uh the motion. Other comments on the motion? Do we want to say anything about reviewing it so that it's effective for the next year? Do you want to have that in the minutes? >> I in my opinion those are ad we weren't asked to do that and those are more administrative things. Bringing it up every year is an administrative thing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Agreed. And when you present it to the city council, uh, I encourage you to bring that up that we plan to look at it, review it in some sort of fashion every year. And I think the timing ties in with the reservation system right now. >> Yes. >> January 1st. So that again is more administrative. Any other comments about the um motion? If not, all of those that are in favor of the motion, does anybody need rewarded reread? Uh say indicate by saying I >> I >> I >> opposed. Good discussion. It's good. Good thing. And it's a good thing you guys brought it back here. We need to look at this thing. uh there are other aspects other than just the money aspects of that park usage policy which when we brought it up for discussion we had in there too. So >> um >> yeah uh Peter actually brought up just changing some of the our verbiage or our conditions or our rules of our parks as well and there's a number of things that are very common that you see not only in public places that aren't in our policy or in our rules right now. So yes, we can review that as well. Yeah, that's what I noticed. Some of our parks have like park rules signed. Well, >> are those exactly what we've got in the policy or they different like the dog park, right? >> Okay. So, yeah, that's another good reason to review this policy uh on a yearly basis. All right. Uh we're off to talk about Tana Ridge. Just for our new commissioner, uh we periodically uh talk about upcoming uh parks that are potentially needed, I guess, for looked at. Periodically, we go through and talk about those. And it is a very good time for us to go out and look at that park and talk about things that we uh could potentially add, subtract or do for that park. And did I get that right in? >> Yeah. So, initially started uh when we started to review our playgrounds when I when I actually started here. We started with Clyice, Pebble uh and Table, right? And so, uh, I think staff or commissioners found it very, um, very fortunate to get actually get out to the parks because we had a we had a number of new staff, um, you know, our members on the commission actually got out to the parks to see where they're actually at, what's there, what they see, what comments they're getting back from the community. So, it was definitely just a way to kind of get out there, review those parks, know what's there, so when you are asked the questions, um, you got a good answer, right? And in theory, since this goes out in the weekly uh email to residents, they would could see that if that's their local park and they could show up and provide comments. We've had periodically people show up uh and provide comments on their neighborhood park. So now everybody we talk about Tanner. >> Yeah. So yeah, and with that being said, I did reach out to the Tana HOA too, just let them know that we're having the discussion. Uh no decisions being made, but just uh um getting feedback of potential upgrades there in the future or what's there that needs needs repair or um but I did reach out to them as well just for that information. But um with that being said, again um we review our parks um as part of the our just kind of a yearly thing is walking through our parks and getting to better understand them. Just a little bit about Tanner Ridge. It's located in the Tanner Ridge development. It connects to the fields of St. Croy second edition. This 9.1 acre park consists of a playground set uh which was constructed in 20 2005 uh a soccer net and a ball field. Parking is limited to several parking stalls and street parking only. Public trail connects Tanner Ridge to the development to the downtown area. Tanner Ridge is classified as a neighborhood park currently and um in in our recent parks master plan. Of the 27 city parks, Tanner Ridge is our 10th largest park again with 9.1 acres. Considerations for this park in the future may include an updated play set in 2030. That's that's currently scheduled to park. Um staff would consider um or would suggest making the site ADA compatible if we did so um with the parking lot as well as the trail uh into our playground as well. Um again with that would be moving the black border um making it concrete make it trail access right up to that. for um just to make it ADA accessible. Uh we'd also recommend or suggest additional seating or benches uh in the area where where it allows. Um, additional parking would be beneficial in that area, but it is tight as far as, you know, just, you know, if you move the playground set, uh, you're you'd be really restricted to just one side, uh, the road parking as well as anything that you could fit in there um, without losing play space that we have there. So, as noted in our parks master plan, this is the map that's in there. uh should note that the one trail is private and that is uh near the sanitary drain field, the one that goes to the north and to the far east. It has a private trail by the HOA. Otherwise, the rest of the Brown Trails are city or public trails um through that area. So, um there's uh again, we are limited, you know, as far as what we have there with the HOA and their property. So that trail that goes through there to get back to the ball field to get back to that soccer area. Um we are limited that parking to that one street side, not only on the north side as far as the south side as well. Might be limited to only five cars in each uh on each end. So uh to use this as a potential for upgrades to the to any of the you know ball field or anything like that probably wouldn't be a staff's suggestion just because of the the walking distance as well as the minimal parking area that's in there. About one acre of the site was um was used up um a few years ago with the expansion of our water water system. Our well uh wellhouse was built in there that took up like I said about an acre of the of the parks. >> It's over by the sanitary building, right? >> Say that again. >> It's over by the sanitary building, isn't it? >> Um it's actually up on the north side there. You can see the building existing. Um it says existing sanitary building, but that's a that's a wellhouse there. >> Okay. Um, with that, I'll take any questions or comments. And just as a note in our parks master plan, um, just as anything, Tanner Ridge came up as the 10th most used park. Again, those numbers, you know, uh, Sunfish Lake was about 60% of the of our, um, those surveyed. Tanner Ridge was down there about that 20% um, that said that they visited that park. So, um, again, 540 people at 10% or sorry, 20% I think people visit this park. >> Questions, comments? Again, we're not going towards a motion on this. We're just providing input. >> Correct. >> So, questions, comments? >> Yes. So, there's a sign on the by the playground, playground equipment, but there's not a sign on the north side. >> Correct. >> Is there some reason for that? >> Yeah. Most of our parks we only have like it's no different than Sunfish. We have one at the entrance of Sunfish. We don't have one at the dog park entrance. We do have one a sign that says dog park, but we don't have that for because that's actually entrance for Sunfish as well. So, right, we always pick uh one entrance, one main entrance um for our park entrance. So, >> but in the parking lot there, it does say pedestrian path to Sunfish, the dog park. >> Yes. Yes, it's small. >> It's about this. Yeah, it's small. It's not as big as the other one, but but there's no sign there >> on the north side. on the north side at all either by the it just says do not drive in, you know, no vehicles to the wellhouse and then there's that other little path that's kind of hidden away too. But I I don't think anybody would know that that's a park unless you specifically >> Right. >> Yeah, I agree. I think when I was out there, um I thought that this park could really benefit from some way, >> some signs. I have been through that park a lot. I think it's very critical with the trails. Keeps you off a Manning if you're trying to, you know, cover some distance. Um, so that's really nice. And when I was out there, I ran into Lucas, who's the HOA person out there, and so he thanked you for letting him know that we were going to be discussing this, and he thought that that could be nice, too. But had, you know, thought that the park was really wellmaintained, really liked it. um you know just looking to give some opinions when the playground structure is up for consideration. Um >> yeah, I agree. I I am I run those trails at least once a week back there and I have never seen anyone on the baseball field or the soccer area. And even the playground equipment, it's I mean once in a while I'll see a k like one child there. So I don't know that it gets a lot of use, but I thought it was in rel really good shape. I mean considering how long it's been there. Um but overall I think I agree like the sign like I wouldn't even you wouldn't know those fields were back there. um unless you walk back there and even if you see the ball the baseball field then the soccer or that area you know is further down and and and kind of hidden even more you know more so. So and the trails are really nice. I mean now that they redid the private trail I mean to go around the little pond there. Um so I think overall it's a nice little park. I mean >> other than that >> it seems underutilized. >> Yeah. Exactly. I think so. >> It's a little hidden. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think some signage could help. >> Yeah. Well, one thing that would help is the thing that we've been working on and not making any progress, and that is the connection to the Wildflower Nature Preserve. >> Yeah, that'd be great. >> Right now, you either have you, if you're a kid and you're approaching it from the south, you got to go down the big hill and ride all the way through the subdivision, which is again not marked. It's kind of >> one of those crazy ones. the other end it's again at the way end of it and there's no sign and there's no parking >> so you can see why it's underutilized but if you had at least the connection with some signs I agree and if you had the connection to wildflower you would bring in all those people that are coming in >> because again it's a little bit different play set it's got more of the fields um so for people on north of Stillwater Boulevard that could be something that would be important to use but it needs that connection otherwise it's just hard to get to. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do we when you are reviewing these in general do you what is the process eventually for just community engagement looking at demographics of where the park is kind of to your point if it's underutilized not utilized. >> Yeah. So we take into effect kind some of the things that we've been working on. So the signage we take take notes of like here's here's a perfect example of a park that sits out there or even hidden nodes right sits out there how do you get to it right using that way finding deals an option of like here here's a park what are wayfinding options if it's if it's a map or if it's a you know an app that we might use in the future as we build that u but ours is just park sites you know is it a sign out on 55th is it a sign down on on Manning or sorry Stillwater Boulevard just say you know uh Tanner Ridge Park with an arrow So, uh, we're just taking suggestions right now and we note those so when we do come across things that are in our work plan to say like here's a prime example. This is exactly what we talked about, you know, a year ago when we reviewed the park. And then that information, are we sharing that eventually if it does come to in 2030 when we're ready to do the playground or or if we're at that point in terms of engagement with that that HOA and that neighborhood and are we do we are we getting feedback from people in that respect? >> Yeah. So, a lot of times when we do our playground uh reviews, we always have a we always have a a discussion about what we'd like to see there first. So, again, same thing, we invite the association community members to have input on that um during public comment um to say, "Hey, this is what we're looking to have. It's a 5 to 12, if it's a zero to five playground set there, whatever amenities we'd like to see there." Is it I think at one point we wanted a big fire fireman's pole or whatever it might be. So to have, you know, is it a swirly side, you know, just to get those options out there so when we go to design, uh we can incorporate that with our designer to say, "Hey, here's some things that the community wanted or was recommended by the commission." >> Okay. Commissioner Peterson, it would also when we look at our budget, that's another time. So, we're running I know what 10-year budgets, but at least five years ahead. So, before 2030, we should be looking at anything else that we would want to add to that park. So, that's another fun thing we do in the uh early late spring as we do budgets and that's another time to look at this. Um, >> is there a tether ball pole in that? is >> there is um >> and combined >> one ball there a year because it gets stolen. >> Oh, it does week after >> and it does had a basketball goal, right? >> There's a little basketball court. >> So, we had a >> and that net is almost gone. >> Yeah. So, a neighbor put the portable basketball hoop there, right? >> And because that's in just in the parking lot. So, just a neighbor, somebody put the basketball there. Well, I'm glad you told me about the tether ball because we've put in those things and when we do, we usually get somebody to to give us positive feedback, but we put in a tether ball and it goes to the sky. Huh. >> Yeah. Or someone's house. >> Whatever. Interesting. >> One of the things I did I did drive by and and walk it a little bit. Um it seemed like that container was awfully close to the road. I just thought it was just it seemed I I don't know if there's a way in design. It doesn't look like there's much room to move it back or move it, but maybe there's a way to reconfigure it. And again, if we make it ADA accessible, that might provide that connection from the trail and the road. It just seemed really close to me, especially in kind of that when it bends a little bit. Well, again, I don't I'm sure those developments weren't built at the same time. So, it kind of looked like one was put in and so they put all the stuff there and then the other one came in and said, "Hey, we can match it up with this." So, I think when it relook at it, we kind of relook at it. Okay, we got two neighborhoods that are using this thing. What's the best way? And moving some of that stuff might be the right thing. >> All right. Any other comments? Adam, I was curious if the city staff has any um indication on how much that ballpark is used. To me, it seems like one that potentially is ripe for removal. It seems like it would be underutilized, but I don't know that. >> Yeah, I would say that's probably one of our most underutilized fields there. >> Okay, that's what I suspected. >> Yeah. Um and it could be because of the area. We do have some newer homes there. I think our our our families in the area are fairly younger. So, we do have younger kids, not only in um the Tanner Ridge area, but also in the fields area. So, um we do have a soccer group that uses that net quite often. So, I mean, I think that's getting more utilized in the baseball field. >> I guess I would just keep that. I would love to hear feedback from from residents as to whether that ballpark is should stay. To me, it seems like we've got quite a few ball parks that are underutilized and we should look at maybe some removal. I also wonder, and I'm totally just completely wondering, whether this park potentially could serve as a um disc golf location. >> It's got some length to it. And if you oriented them correctly with the paths, it might work. But again, totally totally speculative. Just throwing it out there as a potential. >> Well, one thing on the elimination of the uh ball field. I if I'm still around, if we ever get any information about it with the new what are we calling it? The new four quad baseball thing. >> Sports complex. >> Sports complex. I hear all these names for it. Um, excuse me. That's a good time for me to me to go back and look at all the city ballparks and say, "Oo, do we need all of these? Do we need Lion Still? Do we need, you know, do we need all of these?" So, put that one in your calendar, too. Whenever whoever does whatever to that thing. Mhm. >> I agree with Peter. I I think we could find something another amenity or amenities to make more use of that park. >> Yeah. >> The only issue being parking. >> I agree. >> Right. >> So, you're talking about pickle ball? >> No. No. I'm pressing my luck on that. >> All right. Anything else? >> Well, just a question. So, when will that trail connection be revisited with the land owner? So, um, we reviewed it in about 2022 with him or 2023, I would say, uh, is when we reviewed it with him. Uh, two property owners. Um, I I would probably challenge to review it again probably in about two years unless you see a change in ownership. Might be a prime time to do it, but um, I think I think two years would be a comfortable year to do it. >> Okay. >> I mean, it's it'd be a great like like Hank said, be a great great connection point. It makes everything um go because otherwise it's just a dead end trail. >> It's just such a small little area. >> Just just a little >> but it would make for a great loop. >> Yeah, it would be great. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anything else? One more last call. Thank you. Good discussion. >> Communications. Um Cly Park. We know that uh just here in the last since our last meeting, Place Park, the playground is complete. Uh staff did do some additional ground work up there to recede and so you'll see that come back in here. Nice. We've had some um a lot of good compliments about regarding it. So kudos to the group here as far as what we chose and what was put there as well. So uh Sunfish Lake parking lot, we did complete that in the last month as well. Uh just widen that out. Um we'll see some we have some extra wild flowers that we did put on our black door on the end. So, we'll see how that grows um this year as well. Um Pebble Parking lot again that was completed um prior to this prior to our last couple meetings, but um we do just have to give those wild flowers time. I think we'll we'll it'll it'll it's green right now and it looks like it might just be Russian weeds, but I think we're just going to give it a little bit. Um um in the next month here, I think before our next meeting, we'll have new asphalt trails to all three of our playground equipment. So um what we what we just completed at CLC, we'll have a new asphalt trail that goes down to that as well as our pebble parking lot and um our Deontraville park uh play set, too. So that'll put all three