The first order of business is to approve the meeting the uh minutes of the meeting of December 3rd or December 2nd actually and um >> so moved >> second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay, that is approved. So the the minutes are okay. Uh the new unfinished business is to the the election of officers of this body for the coming year. And I understand that there's uh uh if anybody really wants to be the president, they can they they could so state right now, >> but I'm willing to continue for the next >> nominate Don Place. >> For what? >> For the for the uh >> the president. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> the chair. >> Yeah. Chair. Um >> change it up a little bit. I would second that. I I >> I don't know if there's going to be discussion, but let me know when there's discussion. I want to ask you, do you want to be continue to be? >> I'd be willing. I mean, I I don't have any strong feeling about it. If if uh if if someone else would like to take it, that's great, too. >> You don't have to accept the nomination if you don't want. Uh, I I I I don't know how to how to word this because I'm moving line. I would just soon leave Tony as president and I don't mind running for vice president if you'd like to change that. >> Sounds good. >> Well, it sounds like you're the only nomination for chair. >> Do you still nominate me? >> Yeah, I'll nominate. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> Okay. Well, I'll keep on going for a year then. The next is for vice chair. >> I'd like to nominate Don Place. >> I'll accept. >> I second that. >> Okay. >> All in favor of Don Place as vice chair. >> I. >> Anyone opposed? No. >> Okay. Great. Uh, treasurer can be the same as the president and I've been since there's nothing to to do really. I was a treasurer the past year and I wanted to continue. >> Sounds good. Second. >> I'll second that. Yeah. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Okay. And the secretary re recommended uh the staff recommends Ashley Montteruso. And uh I would like to nominate Ashley Monttouso as a secretary. >> What if she doesn't accept the nomination? >> Find out. >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I. Okay. an assistant treasurer. Staff recommends Jason Stappa. I recommend I move that we uh vote to elect Jason as assistant treasurer. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you very much. That that takes care of that. Uh the next item on the agenda is the update on the fire station and parks property. Uh community development director Jason Stappa will go ahead and talk about that. >> Yes. Just wanted to give you a brief update on the project. So we went through a phase one with Stantech. Uh they recommended a phase two. This was funded by the county and u high level. The phase two came back with a little bit of uh PAS around the fire station kind of surface level. They took core samples that went really far down. Um but some of this is at like the 4 foot level. So they're getting more samples based on their site plan that they are submitting working with us. and um basically submitting a response action plan um if needed working with Stantech to move forward. So that is just something that was discovered. Um everything else was didn't seem too bad. They're doing more asbestous testing. Um there's a vapor test that they do at certain times and they're doing it now basically. Um just to make sure that everything is okay. Um so that's the big question moving forward with them is is just the Pass removal. Um the action plan is recommended. So that we've also applied for more funds for testing that the county has currently. So we should be receiving those too to move forward. Um the cleanup activities will go with the purchaser. And >> may I ask a question? Yes. >> You mentioned that the community development a agency had given us some money from the grant funds. Can can you tell us how much I don't know off the top of our head because it runs the contract that Stant Tech has is with the county. So, it's activity. So, we don't see the bills for for this, but we could get an estimate on it. >> Okay. Because I I would just said, you know, as a little bit of pre-work, I looked and I saw that the uh Washington County uh had received $660,000 in grants from the EPA. And I was just wondering just roughly how much they were putting into this project. >> We could get the number. I don't have the number though. >> I don't think the testing portion would be a very large amount. It's the activity of removing anything that needs to be removed would be the heavy cost. >> Thank you. >> And just for another update, we do have a close session to discuss the purchase price um after the council meeting. So the idea is we want to keep moving forward. They want to move forward looking at a purchase around May hopefully. So that's the uh update on the building. Any questions? >> Is there any chance that some of the is there any chance that some of the environmental uh assessment information would potentially infer that pollution of the POS expands past the property lines or did Stantech not even hypothesize that? >> They didn't even look. I mean, I don't know if you we've talked about this in the past, but there's a plume um in the area. So they were able to capture that because they went so far down. But that's not going to affect the development based on what the purchaser purchases are proposing. But we weren't testing outside the boundaries. The other thing is um council is it tonight or we have the subdivision? >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. Next slide. Oh, well, maybe this is part of that, but okay. Is there nothing else going on on the fire stations building development beyond the inspection of for hazardous materials? >> That's been ongoing for a while now. So, it's it's taken a while. We've asked the developer to submit a site plan to continue working. Um, they've had their contractors in the building multiple times. They have a right of entry. Um, so they're getting they're getting their plans. They're getting closer. They are looking to close. So >> So we have nothing new to to hear back or see or there's nothing we can learn about what's going on there. >> Um, well, I mean, we've been working on the subdivision, too. So, we've been that process that's going to be um it's going to the council on March 3rd. So, that subdivision is is happening with the rightway dedication. So, we're on schedule. Um, is there do you have a specific question of update? >> I I was expecting to learn more. >> I think maybe maybe the curiosity is similar to mine. So like our purchase agreements happening in May. Like that's that's on track. Like nothing here derails that plan. Um like you see you see a pathway to closure. >> I do. >> And they're excited about it. They're doing testing and all the work they need. >> They do. And and then there's um business subsidies that were discussed all the way from the beginning. there's ex uh exceptions to that. So like testing and removal of environmental contamination could be factored into that. So I do feel like we're in a path where we probably don't need to extend a business subsidy or go through the process with a tiff or business subsidy. So I feel pretty confident we're just moving forward. Um I don't have any main major concerns at this point. Do do we have a sense that they're going to hit the ground running on, you know, development once they once they close? Are they prepared for that? >> That is the plan. They are um they are asking to kind of speed up the process, right? But there's certain things that we just can't speed up. So like the environmental, we're not doing it. It's like a third party. So we're just working through the process. So there's no indication that they're trying to slow down the process. >> Yeah, that's good. >> That's helpful. Thank you. Good. So, we have appraisals back. Currently, it's not public data. That will be released later. Um, and tonight we have the close session with the city council. >> When would the appraisal become public data regardless of what happens at close session tonight or is it not until either a purchase agreement has happened or a party has walked away? Is that the threshold? I believe the appraisal becomes public after the agreement is signed. >> All right. >> But I mean obviously like you'll be receiving that information tonight. >> And that's really it. Any questions specific to that? >> Yeah. I you were you going to make any comments about the minor subdivision? I have no >> not much. I mean we we basically worked with them on a on a on a lot line that they agreed to. It's two different purchases if you recall. Okay. Y >> um there's rightway dedication. There were um just working through utilities and easements along the the alley with our engineering staff. Um not really much to report, but it's just taking I believe seven parcels and creating two parcels. >> So my my memory of this is that there was kind of an odd corner where the street was part of one lot. Were you able to straighten that all out? That was straightened out. Leo, that was um >> that was already teed over to the city. >> Okay, thank you. >> Okay, the next uh one is about the uh 180 acre parcel that we're trying to develop. I know we've talked about it a lot here, but we just the next um step is bringing it to a city council workshop in March, March 10th, just to um finalize the plan so we can make sure that everybody is on the same page. The council um wants to move forward. We'll put that on the website. Uh so I'll just go through the slide a little bit. So, one of the things that we're working on right now is continue talking to engineering about um water and sewer water connections and connectivity throughout from parcel one all the way to parcel 3. One of the questions that you will be asked or the council will be asked the workshop is do you want to move forward on trying to bring the sewer under the track? We already know that that's going to be a question that requires CIP and budgeting for. So, that's a question. U meet with the county to discuss access and future projects. We're going to have that meeting pretty soon. Every conversation that I've had with them has been positive in terms of accessing all the sites they are finishing. Um is it ideal design soon. I think they're coming to the council in April. Yeah. So that shouldn't affect the project. It's just specific design. Um the AU on the site, it's old. We'll probably look at that. We haven't decided um when we're going to renew that because part of the process that we're going to go through um is a community engagement to make sure that the land uses are aligned to what everybody would like to see and we need those before we can do an AUR. Uh we'll probably look at land brokers. If you recall from the report that was one of the minor steps is finding land broker. I've spoken to uh one people are calling about this site on an industrial type site flex space. So >> I'd like to ask a question about this AUR. Uh, is that something that the city staff is going to do or are you going to have a consultant do it? >> No. So, we've already talked to Balden Mech about doing the AUR. >> So, the AUR that was originally done by the first developer is aged out. Is that it? >> It will expire, I believe, soon. So, the idea is it's easier to renew it before it expires. Yeah. So, it would be like a renewal, but maybe changing land use and densities and types. So, that's that's what we're trying to do. And then we can charge that back to the the developer when the time comes. >> Got it. And I assume renewal is a far easier and affordable option. >> That's what I've been told. >> Yes. >> The land brokers, we've heard from them or at least one of them. Um people are calling about like a flex institutional space. Uh really the next step after the workshop is we're going to provide the plan at the workshop. Make sure council is uh wants to move in that direction. We'll be doing um we'll be doing more community engagement. We're considering doing it, you know, in-house um just to move forward on the project and then creating a communication strategy with Kathy just tying this all in. Hopefully we'll have this uh have we'll be occurring through the spring and then sometime in the summer or fall we'll close out the community engagement portion have everything pretty much figured out and then the question will be you know are we ready to market parcel one if it is industrial it's already guided that way so obviously things could change and change the timeline but we just kind of want to move it because I think we've heard from I think Tony you brought this up it's we believe we could sell that first parcel to pretty much fund the rest of it in terms of bringing sewer. Um, and from what I've heard in the past, EDA council wants to sell the propert. There's nothing holding the city back. So, that's just uh where we are with that process. So, the next step really will be that workshop in March. >> Any questions? >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Good. Good progress. >> Couple of things here. One of the things in the list of the proposed tap proposal was an early on discussion with Union Pacific on a possible rail spur. Is that being pursued or are you going to >> we're trying? So one of I've reached out haven't heard anything. I've talked to a broker is it's very difficult to do. The recommendation that they made was when you start marketing, market as having rail access because that's a partnership that they have to work with, you know, to to figure out whether it's going to work for that specific use. But they were basically said getting coordination with the railroad early on is really difficult and could really hold up the project. >> So they should, their advice was just to market that you're on this and possibly a spur and then people can come in. >> Sure. >> Work through that. To answer another part of that though, one question we're working through with engineering is just the elevations at the site too. If it's feasible to bring in a spur and then if we need to run the sewer along the existing tracks, does that make sense to have a spur and the utility? So, there's some challenges to that also. Okay. The next item is number five, communications. >> Okay. Are we done with the 180? If so, I I have a a comment >> uh and a request on the 180 acres. >> Um I I think the proposal that TAP made was really exciting. A lot of interesting stuff there and uh and could really be a fantastic development. I was a little concerned uh when the presenter made a point saying uh hey the the tax benefit whether it's industrial or the full-blown uh project would be very very similar. uh and the one thing they did not include was any impact on city services and we mentioned that I think the last discussion uh and I'm still very concerned about that and I I the reason I'm concerned is well first you know as the being EDA if we're going to make recommendations on economic development I think I I I believe we want to make sure it's has positive financial impact on the city uh and it sounds like you know like that there would be a risk that it would could be a a negative return on investment uh maybe a negative cash flow even uh if we go with the full meal deal development as opposed you know that will require less city services uh and then that got me thinking about the city's current uh financial situation concerning debt service and uh and I I have a hard time interpreting all the information in our city budget uh I see numbers that say that it's 31 debt service is 31% of of uh tax revenue and and I see something close to 30% you know when compared you know the $3.4 million of debt services compared to the entire group of levies but I I don't know how it really stacks up to total budget. I'm not really seeing numbers and don't understand them uh well enough to uh know uh how significant that is. Uh I've looked at a couple of other cities, uh Woodbury, which is obviously a different kind of city, but their debt service is 3 to 4% of their budget. Uh Oakdale, which is closer to us by what I look at is 8 and a half% uh of their of of their total budget. And ours seems to be, you know, two to three times that. My request is this. Could we get some sort of education a few minutes uh from uh maybe the finance group to tell us a little bit about what that debt service impact is? I I I wonder if there may even be some long-term financial projections that says this is how it's going to come down and that isn't shown in the budget and maybe we need to understand that. But that you know without that understanding you know uh I can't in good faith you know go along recommend anything other than what looks like a positive financial impact not a negative one. End of speech. I will say one of the comments that we added to the report that is not uh yet added to the report and we received this from the county was basically for every unit um for every dollar generated taxes from a residential development I believe their chart is like services they require about a$120 in services and with commercial and and industrial it's about 30 cents so that was asked during the process so we were able to get that number from the county and that's going to be incorporated in the report. So any decisions being made, you kind of understand that. The other thing I want to mention about what was presented, they maxed out the residential units too based on the available um wreck units for the sewer. So that could be a challenge too, but just working through um our population with the Met Council and just what the site can support. So just, you know, those are things that we're going to have to continue to consider moving forward. >> And and to Don's point, I I fully agree on the the lens of because we all discuss it at EDA and at council as well. There is the growth of the tax base, but one of those outcomes has an impact to the city. The other is far less. So I think that is a very valuable data point, especially from the EDA lens. Um to clarify my terrible memory, >> either either of the outcomes, the whole report still took into account the impact of carst correct because it with the amount of impervious surface in either situation >> like Karst is no one and I just wanted that that was no one or discussed. So both the both everything in the report is still plausible while knowing the carst is there correct? >> Yes. >> Right. >> And going to my request h how how do I get smarter about what that debt service is? How is it really excessively large? Is it projected to get come down in the future? How do how do how do I get that understanding so that I have a better feeling for what I what I should be supporting? >> Do you want to take this? >> It myself or you go ahead. >> It is large and it is something that council definitely has tried to push on including this past year but you are correct on it is large and it's larger than it is in similar cities. One of the reasons why the tax levy went up this year was the council took the stance that it's better to use more often cash and levy for projects than to do bonding. So the part of our long-term financial plan is to try to proactively reduce that debt load percentage by percentage by percentage. And I I can't I can't recall the exact numbers off of hand, but I we we have the data in the presentations and I I think can definitely get those back to you. it we had a disagreement within council as to how aggressive we should be trying to reduce that load. Um but because it's one of those things like there's no perfect answer. When will we have 0%? Well, we're not going to. >> No, it never has. Don't want zero. >> Correct. Correct. So it's it's what's the most reasonable approach and so we did have a thorough discussion on that and it my perspective is that a bit more of aggressive approach was taken to try to reduce that debt load on the basis of at least for my perspective growth is going to start slowing down soon. So that there's an opport some of the the growth in tax base is going to be slowing down. So to me, it'd be better to take the the impact of the increase to the levy now because if we do it 10 or 15 years from now, it's going to be too late, especially with some of our depreciating assets and our infrastructure that we have not been planned for for years. Our budget did not take into account the depreciation of infrastructure for years. So that's the other another major reason for the increase in the levy. But yes, you are absolutely correct. The debt load was something that was definitely a topic this year far more than I can recall in any any past year because it is it's something that needs to be addressed. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate you raising it because I don't know what I don't know. So if there's any way to get enlightened at like the next the next EDA from you Jason or yeah somebody from from our finance team or sending out you know ancillary materials certainly welcome that. I'll say because as I look ahead, I'm really excited about the community engagement um and the output of that and it's our job to balance all the good feedback we're going to get with some of the more technical, you know, components, some of the financial stewardship that that we have insight to that even myself as a resident, you know, I I would look at that land and want to do something. Um but yeah, we need to to be responsible. So appreciate any insight that can be offered. >> I feel like that's also then a good thing to use for whether it's the open houses, the public hearings because what I'm hearing from the two of you is yes, this is an asset to help us tackle obviously from an EDA standpoint, the debt load is one thing, but it's growing the tax base. The debt load is a is a part of what's in our minds. So, I feel like that's that would be important thing to have when we're having these discussions with the public because some members of the public are say, "Let's just have it be >> nature trails." >> And I I'm I would wager from the EDA standpoint. No. And the council's already said clearly no as well. But to have those conversations be like, you know, this is >> because some of those conversations like are into the weeds. >> Yeah. >> And it I didn't know about the debt load for years either. >> No. Oh, and where we all started this journey was how did we get here? It's from 3M. It's the LAN. And and we made it very clear and I'm informed about that, but it's our job to inform the residents that this is our last this is this is this is what we got. We can't go. There's not another crack at the pie. We need to this is a financial tool for us as much as is a community tool and enhancement. So yeah, when we have these discussions with the community and the outreach that that needs to be part of the discussion and um as as we enlighten the community. Yep. >> Do we have an idea from the public hearing standpoint what our thoughts are on that whether it's open houses, poster sessions, you know, open meetings per se like because we we've obviously there are things that were done for the 2040 comp plan. There are certain things we did certain things for the uh when in downtown when we had the study that was done and we had a couple of open meetings like do we have thoughts on that or is that still too early to even start to hypothesize what work best? >> I think it's a little early. We're coming up with a plan, but definitely open houses, >> potentially even something that we don't do, but maybe you'd be open to it as EDA having public hearings at the EDA just so people can talk. And then we, you know, we've added meetings in this past year. So, we're considering that, too. That way, you can hear input from people, they can. Well, our communications expert Kathy probably knows better than this, but I I have kids and grandkids and my kids don't go to any meetings because they don't have time. I think uh it's great to have open houses uh or but anything that a a resident has to attend is not going to have reach as many residences residents as we would like. People are too busy. too many basketball games and baseball and all that other stuff. >> Have you know the idea of creating pages on our website that's something that we've been working on. So like the fire station page um the parks page when that comes. So creating pages and creating uh using it as a community engagement tool, communications tool and then you know any kind of social media. It sounds like people do engage in social media and figuring out a way maybe we can set up a survey. Um we have the national community survey. I don't we're going to have to talk to see if that's the appropriate place to go, but you know we can set up we can set up surveys um if that's the case. Um you know so people can interact easily without having to show up uh during the day. So, next item, the communications. Um, just community development projects page. Just wanted to show you this on the website. It looked different. We're moving forward uh moving away from PDFs. Uh, don't quote me on this, but the accessibility issue, we have to modify our website. I I don't know the deadline for that, but our movement through the development projects is to place them on the website in a new format that meets those guidelines. So, as you can see here on the screen, I don't know if you can see it, but >> no, >> no, we're not seeing it on our screens. >> Something just flashed. >> There we go. >> There you go. So, it's just simple format. It's under the planning and zoning tab, development projects. You come here and it just shows last updated in January. Uh what's under construction, commercial institutional, Bridgewater Village update on that. The bank is going to be opening very soon. Um as you can see, the the daycare is being built. That's Primrose School. Uh we have a concept in for a residential um townhouse development at that site. Also just giving updates on Oakland and Lake Elmo. Um very similar we had before residential Amamira Woodhelm is at home and with town homes Northstar Prairie Sky Roars and if we have some that are under review we're going to add this page is still we're going to keep adding to it with more description but um this is the what we're moving to instead of the PDF. So we'll keep that up to date. that is not only amazing from the standpoint of it's accessible, but it has multiple pieces of information for each item, including one of the ones where they do have a website. Yeah, it's nice to just link because if someone's interested in the actual product, we're not creating obviously we don't have to do that and they can go directly and if they want to reach out, they can contact >> that. One thing you might do as far as getting public input on this 180 acres is uh right now if we've discussed the you know what's the the distance that you have to be from a project before you're notified and was being changed from 350 to 500 ft on a project of this size. it might make sense to send out a basically a postal uh announcement about the 180 acres that there's a public discussion about this and if you want to be involved you you know here's a time and place or you can send uh you know your comments to wherever they they should be sent because it seems like that that those kind of uh notifications do tend to to create a lot of interest. Okay. Yeah. If people get angry on the back end of it, they can't complain too much if they haven't fill us in. >> Yeah. At least if if you mail them a notice, they've been notified. >> Yeah. >> I think they can always say, "Well, I didn't see the website." >> That's right. >> Or I don't read the lake fresh or I can't hear anything or whatever. But but if you mail it to them. >> So the next item I just want to talk about briefly the old city hall site where can you get a broker price opinion. We had a workshop with different scenarios to just trying to better understand uh what this would look like if someone were to rent the site. The other thing that we're going to bring back um the old city hall site's going to come back probably we're talking about maybe with a parking plan too because that's another idea is this should be a parking lot and what does this actually look like? We have a cost estimate and how many stalls can we put there? Also, when the school moves, perhaps putting parking on one side of the street out here. What does that look like? Just to kind of give everybody an idea. So, part of it is a economic development component. It may not seem like the best site after we hear from um the broker, but moving from there also looking at the parking lot. So, you have all the information. So, I just want to give you an update that we are working on that um moving forward. >> Just just to be clear, like it it's a full parking lot like tear down the building. >> There's options, right? But it could be a tear down the building, full parking lot. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Well, well, another possibility might be to rent out the space to somebody for an office or something like that while you're waiting to decide what to do and at least have some some income from it. >> That's that's correct. That well, that was one of the option. I can't recall what the six options were, but we did the workshop with the six options. Sound like the council was interested in >> part of the option was see what it would take to do some fixes, what it would need to be able to house somebody. And then what could you rent that out as? And there's an assortment of, as Mr. Stoopa said, there's probably about six things that we can do there. So, we want to be educated on what can happen there, how much it's going to cost, all those factors before a decision gets made. >> Okay. >> And not only is he going to provide a a broker price opinion, basically a value on the building, he's looking at projected rents, the types of people that would want to rent the space. Um, I've already talked to him about, you know, they're going to want at least a three-year lease. So, this is the path you go. You need to make at least the commitment to three years. So, you know, it's just kind of getting all the information. He's going to attend the meeting, too. Um, when we schedule that, so any questions, you can also ask the broker uh Boulevard tree program. So, we released this uh early in the month and we have 62 unique addresses signed up. We have not vetted them yet, but there is uh interest in the program. It seems to be successful so far. And I believe our survey is going to close in the beginning of March, March 2nd, I believe. And from there, we're going to start planting. We already have um pricing. So, we received prices from one group, pay for about a 100 trees. So, um we're going to present that just because you know, you're here from the council. We're going to present it as a budget amendment, give you more information before we start, but we'll hopefully start in April, May, and be done. It'll just happen quickly. >> Great. question. I have seen references to the Boulevard Tree program. I I think about it every time I look out my window at the Boulevard trees in wildflower. Now, the developer planted those. Many of them died. Uh a couple of them around our house are on the way. Does the existence of the homeowners association and the and the association presumably, you know, being responsible for the trees and the boulevards, uh, does this program uh, apply? Can it apply or >> you're referring to the medians? >> I'm I'm referring to the trees planted between the sidewalk and the street, which we call the boulevard. >> That's that's what the program is. So, so but the fact is it's a homeowners association and not an individual owner. The the spaces between the sidewalks and the streets are not homeowners properties. It's the homeowners association. So, does this can this can the homeowners association call and say, "Hey, we need help." >> There's a survey to fill out. So, my advice is just to make sure the resident that lives, you know, the tree is going to go in front of their home is okay with it. They can enter it. Um, we do ask them to say the one requirement is they are um basically going to receive watering bag. So, it's up to them to water the tree. So, I'm not sure who waters the tree, the trees in wildflower, but that's the most important aspect is having that homeowner want the tree and then someone's going to water it. >> And nothing gets watered adequately in wildflower. The irrigation system was incompetently uh developed. We get uh 12 minutes of watering for any zone twice a week and it's not adequate compared to what you're talking about. Um but I think I understood you say that the homeowner even though it's not their property. It's the homeowner that needs to submit the request. Uh presumably you'd have to >> get it cleared with the homeowners association first. But still you don't you don't want the association to put in the request. You want the homeowner to put in the request. We don't because there it's possible that in some homeowner associations that the homeowners association isn't watering the tree. So it's just good to have the resident acknowledge that because we just don't want to lose the trees. The trees are very expensive. >> Right. Right. >> So >> sure >> I it could be we don't discourage the HOA from participating. But if you have a list you should >> talk to your neighbors and just >> have them fill out if they want you to fill it out and you know we can work through that. That >> that that can work too. Thank you. >> I thought about that for my neighborhood. Yeah, I think it's just making HOA aware, right? Sending an email and saying, "Hey, there's this program. We're submitting a tree. Just heads up. Don't like don't yell at me for >> all just trees showing up to be planted." >> You know, an association's everybody yells at everybody for anything. But >> mine's pretty decent, but I I know what you mean, so got to stay in line. >> Anyway, thank you. You've answered my question. All right. >> Thank you. That's all I have. >> Are there any other other comments? >> Hearing none, I'd like to move that we adjourn. >> Second. >> Anybody opposed? I guess it passes then. Okay. Thank you everybody for coming. We appreciate your time and effort.