Oh, I'm looking at July. Okay. So, you were there. All right. Any other comments for the agenda or for the uh minutes from 61625? Hearing none. Do I have a motion to approve 61625 minutes with that change? >> I move to accept the minutes with that change for June 16, 2025. >> Do I hear a second? >> I'll second that. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed? Passes. Okay. Okay, now we go on to 7:2125 parks commission minutes of meeting. Are there comments? Hearing no comments, I move or I need a motion to approve those minutes. >> Motion to approve the 72125 park commission many mini minutes. Second. >> I'll second it. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. Okay. Please pass on again that we would appreciate quicker turnaround on the minutes. Made the comment before. Public comment. There's none right this second. We're going to talk about Ridge and Tony's going to talk at the end. >> I think we have one more set of minutes. >> One more minutes. August minutes. >> Yep. August didn't come in my packet. >> Oh. >> Oh, no. You're right. You're right. Never mind. >> Yep. Well, that was the nature of my comment. >> They're running lagging about a month behind. >> I have it in my packet. >> I have it in my >> Yeah, it's on our packet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I didn't get it either. So, maybe it depended when you looked at the packets. >> Must have. >> I must have. >> Must have. Then uh we'll we'll still defer it. >> We could read it over now. >> Got extra copies. I wasn't there, but >> right up on your screen. [snorts] >> You need to read it because you were here. >> I was here. You good? Everybody read it. >> But I can see >> second page there. >> Is there more? Yeah. >> Yes. >> Who's second page? Whoever's controlling. You got it. >> Got it. Yeah. Any comments? >> All right. Can I get a motion to approve those eight? >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from August 18th. >> I'll second that. >> All in favor of the minutes. Approving the minutes by I. I >> opposed. >> Nay. Okay. No one here is from public comment and we're moving up. So Ridge chair and commissioner as part of the 2025 work plan. The concept design was developed for park with the goal of transforming the existing neighborhood park into a more vibrant community park. Um the key driver of these concepts is a planned playground replacement that we have scheduled in 2026. That's initially why we kind of started developing that. Uh our current playground does sit in a low spot where it does accumulate water in the spring and um naturally is very wet throughout the summer. So we really wanted to uh gear this towards a design where we could place that uh playground somewhere uh initially first and then as the future goes on then we can add to that and everything would make sense. So with this concept again this concept is a kind of a planning or design ahead of the schedule right u to take a look at is like do these items meet where they're at and how do we lay these out as the future uh as we go forward of the future. Um we did conduct a survey. The survey was conducted with three communities uh Tory Pines, Ridge Park as well as uh Park View Estates. Uh we conducted a um survey, a mailed survey to the residents. They could also uh complete that survey online. It consisted of about uh six to seven questions uh mainly in regards to their use of that park um and any information they wanted to provide us as well in regards to making this concept uh geared towards those users that most frequently use that park right now. So, the issue before us tonight is what concept plan uh would the parks commission like to see implemented and do they have any suggestions or changes they'd like to make to the concept to the uh to Bolton Mink. Again, Bolton Mink has developed two separate concept plans for Ridge Park. each um was informed with feedback collected through the community survey um and targeted the residents as previously noted. So as we look through these, we can go through these concept plans. So concept plan A um I can zoom in here a little bit, but just want you to see the kind of the scale here first. Um did include some I'm going to back up here. Let's talk about the survey. So we had these questions of the survey. Uh again the ones this is taken directly from the online survey. So I did want you to understand that we did have additional 10 10 that did mail in their survey. So as we go through that I'll just kind of uh make note of those as well here. So the first question is how often did you visit Ridge Park? We had 33 respondents to that. Uh and nearly 40% of those responded. Our highest was that one to two times per week. Our second question was what activities do you you do when you visited the park? We had a a a majority of those the most common activity that we got following that was walking, right? Walking with either um your kids, the dogs, or just using that area to just exercise and use the trails that that's there with the green space. The third question, uh would you like to see the playet updated or removed? Um 80% of the respondents were in favor of having that playground um updated. Question number four was, would you like to see the ball field updated or removed? So, uh again, a majority of those surveyed were in favor of updating the ball field. 57% of the online respondents were in favor along with four additional written ballots that uh favored those updates. I'm gonna go skip to number six just because how it's written there. Um the next one was should a pavilion or shade structure be constructed in constructed in the park? 16 responses u voted in favor of the pavilion be installed in that park. So uh no additional changes with that from our written responses. And question number five is what other amenities would you like to see in that park? Uh while many of those surveyed responded with none, additional comments including adding some type of hard surface um court which may include like a basketball court, tennis or a pickleball court. So um that was the again that was just kind of you know it does add something else to the park besides just your open space uh with a with a playground and ball field. But, you know, just they're looking for something. I think your your respondents are looking for something additional there to do, right? Uh if they're coming there. Now, let's look at our concepts. So, Bolament put together two concepts for us. The first concept uh does include hard surface court uh the playground as well as improving that ball field. does incorporate um some youth soccer fields that would include you know in in general aspect would be one large soccer field if going east and west uh those smaller ones going um north and south if you were to incorporate that in there. So that does include some of the major items that we do have in um in our parks master plan as well. I'm just gonna zoom in here quickly. Um, and we talk about signage and wayfinding, those things as well are included in in this as like number seven as we as our entrances in there. So, um, they did incorporate an asphalt trail uh mainly throughout the just the general concept of that u general entrance of that area leaving the far south uh side of that to the nature side of it. Right. So they included a gravel trail as well as a mode uh nature trail that which are all currently uh there uh as well. So they're just adding those as maybe a little more feature more dynamic of direction of where those are actually at. Um concept of this one does include an access off of Inwood Avenue. Um that might be a little bit that'd be a lot of correspondence or connections with the county to make that happen. Um, as we see the community grow, especially to the south near the water tower, uh, with plans there forthcoming before probably 2030, um, you will see, um, you know, likely some changes to Inwood Avenue as well. So, which may include a trail along, um, one side or another um, to connect that south um, quadrant to the the future north uh, which includes uh, Parkfield Estates, Tory Pines, an additional development to the uh, to the west there as well. So, um potentially some future um trail connections there as well. So, um going back to that turn lane that you'd have they would have to provide there um could could get pretty costly for um the city in order to do so. Um on we'll just move on second then we'll kind of walk through some differences. So again the concept uh the second concept does uh incorporate more additional more parking interior. Uh both accesses are interior. So again um uh turn lanes would have to go right into uh the park view states off Ivory uh into there to access that. Uh probably a little more soothing for users versus trying to get uh directional right in there. might be a little bit more difficult exiting there and trying to go back to the south might be a concern for users um trying to get out of that area. So, but again, does it still incorporate an asphalt trail? A little bit bigger in this concept uh as it goes all the way around your ball field, soccer fields, and your playground set to connect right back to that um parking lot. Again, it does um include those limestone paths as well as those mold paths over in that those nature areas. Um again in this area since we do not have sewer down there portable restrooms uh would remain until we had future sewer down there. Um we do have a water tie connection into there. So uh potentially a future of some type of um you know if you were to uh do a pavilion there some type of restroom or something could possibly be a future aspect there. Again, this concept does include a little bit bigger parking um area. Uh about 50 to 70 cars, I believe it was or sorry, 60 to 70 cars in that area. So, so just a few comparisons again, concept A versus B. Uh fullcourt basketball court or full court uh yeah, basketball at each concept. uh potential striping for some pickle ball there. Again, as we've had discussions in the past, where this is currently located is less than our uh parks recommendation plan of 600 feet feet from any home. Our closest home would be directly across or less than 200 feet from that. So, um that would be a concern for um staff as you know as well as it should be for the commissioners to address um with the community potentially before something like that would happen. Updated ball field um with a you know in concept B and A both have a asphalt trail connection to it. I think that's, you know, something to consider as far as ADA compliance, you know, uh to give people access to the playground as well as the ball field for those amenities that we use. Um the like I said before, with the water that is there, uh we wouldn't need to incorporate some storm water uh some storm water catch base or some basins to uh retrieve that. So, if we do any excavating in those areas, those those types of plans would need to be taken into consideration um to hold that water and um you know appropriately with within the site. So um I think in the previous previous designs we did see that where that um where that playground currently sits uh we know that the there's going to be some low land there and there's going to be some water there as well. So >> with that, I'll take any questions or um you know, maybe some ideas that I can pass along to the designer for um either on concept A or B, but we are looking for direction on which one to talk with our designer with to make kind of more of a um update any ideas that you guys have or final plans. >> Would you like to get the public comment now or later? >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay, Mr. Wartman or Mr. Snyder. Either one of you want to go first. Rock, paper, scissors. In general, our rules are that we limit people to six minutes, we'll flex on that tonight. But if I start going like this, >> so introduce yourself and where you live. Uh Stephen Wartman live at 1668 Ivory Avenue North and I definitely won't use six minutes. Um uh just seeing the the designs today actually um brought up a lot of discussion. We did see the survey beforehand um did not fulfill or supply a feedback to that. So I'll leave that to the side. Looking at the designs, a couple of things came out to my wife and I right away were the pickle balls is a very big concern from the noise standpoint. Um like stated the park commission recommends 600 feet. There was an article in the Fox News 9 article about the noise uh variances on that happening. And both of these are well within that 600, not just the 200 uh person that's across the street, but for all the property owners are in the back side of the ball field, it's all under 600 feet. So everybody around that park would be within that 600 ft. Um, on concept A, the entrance coming off of Inwood would not work. Um, if you've ever tried to leave that neighborhood, Inwood is a very busy street. Um, I know there's a stoplight supposedly going in on 15th Avenue. Uh, but right now it's hard enough to leave that area and if you had a second entrance in there, that would just be a nightmare. Um, the paving part is fine. The usage of the fields is doesn't justify it. I know if you added more parking spots, maybe people would come, but the way you have the ball fields lined up and all that, it wouldn't make sense for the paving of the parking around. I know there's ADA rules, so ADA to the pavilion or the new playground would be a benefit, but I think around the ball fields, it would be a waste of taxpayer money. And then lastly, on the ball fields, uh my property lines up with the first base line. I took care of the fields before the city did back in the early 2000s and both my son and daughter with softball and baseball played. With the current fielding right now, the kids can hit the balls into people's yards. You're moving this ball field even closer to the houses. So going down the first base line and even center field, they will be hitting balls into neighbors backyards for sure. And there's some kids that will hit the houses. So, I would totally be against that ball field as an experienced coach and having kids play there. That is going to become a hazard if you move the ball field that close. And then lastly, um the whole organizational of the field. When my kids were playing, it was always Oakdale athletics that use that field for practice. Never games, but always practices. Um it was a nightmare the schedule that I worked with the city and Oakdale to try to figure out how could have it because it was becoming first serve first come first serve and that's something you'll have to think about if you do expand this to that level. Those are my comments but I really appreciate your time on that and thank you for taking the input. >> Appreciate the input. Thank you. >> Okay, Mr. Snyder. Am I supposed to talk to the microphone or >> talk as you want? Just introduce yourself and where you live. >> I'm sorry. I'm uh Bert Snder and uh I live with my wife, it looks like just a few feet away from the three uh soccer fields you want to put in there. Um I think everybody who who uh lives in in this particular area lives there for a reason. And part of it is privacy, part of it is the serenity of living there. um we didn't want to necessarily be in in in a hub. So I I would have to say a number of us are probably used to a little more serene, quiet things. So this is kind of daunting to to see what you have planned and and I appreciate everything that's been done. This took quite a bit of work. Um I I don't know when the last time you were to Ridge Park. There'd be no reason to go to Ridge Park to be honest because you know you had a ball field with no no place to sit, just a backboard and just a little bit of dirt to play on. And I' and I played there with my granddaughters a number of times. Um the you know the playground equipment they've got a little big big fort but I can tell you most days most springs and a lot of times falls it was so wet and muddy and and full of water there you couldn't use it. So I'm surprised anybody said that they used the park a lot. And since I'm home with my wife every day all day long I never saw that many people out there. One thing that I don't think is accounted for here is that I think it's a real concern of us is the noise. Uh we talked about pickle ball. I mean some there's been all sorts of of articles and everything. I understand that Washington County has had problems with pickle ball areas. They they they drop them into areas and then there's constant complaints about the noise and so on. And so I did a little bit of research and Washington County now has about 80 to 81 uh public pickle ball courts. I'm not sure why putting another one in our area would, you know, move the needle at all, but that might allay some people's uh at at least their fear. The acoustics of this park is kind of interesting. Um I don't hear well. I wear hearing aids and I don't hear hear hear well. Um I I can tell you when the sandill cranes are in there, it sounds like they're standing at my back door. Uh you know, and I realize that they're loud. I can hear kids when they're on the playground equipment swinging. I can hear the squeak of the spring. So when I hear when when I see you're you're going to bring 70 to 100 people every Saturday, every Sunday during during during the week to play to play soccer and cheer and move on all summer, all spring, maybe all fall. That seems kind of daunting to me. Now I realize we we we it's your land and you've got to do something. But if you really would look at the park, if I just drove through today on the way here and I looked at it, it's not, you know, the schematic makes it looks like it's this gigantic huge area across there. It's about as wide as our neighborhood lots are. It's like having another neighborhood behind you. It's not like it's a half a mile to a mile across there. It's a pretty narrow thing. It's a little bit longer, but you're not going to use that space. Everything's going to be jammed up towards us. So, pickle ball's a problem. The noise is a problem. What's brought up is the traffic. It's it's almost dangerous to get out of our neighborhood uh to to go across Inwood. We thought when it was done and some of the other roads and constructions were done, it would die down. It doesn't seem to die down. And it doesn't seem like it's just at night anymore. It can be on Saturdays, Sundays, any days. You've got to wait and then all a sudden you you've got to jump in front of somebody else. Well, they might put one light in. I doubt if they're going to put three lights in. Our our concern is that you put 70, 80, 100 people coming in and out of there, they're not going to want to turn left to go on to Inwood. They'll go through our neighborhood. People now are concerned about having the Amazon people delivering things in our neighborhood. I think they're going to go ballistic about having all these people running through the neighborhood. So, I appreciate what's being done and I really appreciate the work that's being done. Um, as far as the people who the do who did the questionnaire, if they could see this concept, I think that would give them a clear idea of what we're facing. You know, if you ask me, well, would I like to have, you know, a few things newer? Well, yeah, I would. But if they say, but it's going to come with this price tag in terms of privacy, sound, and congestion, and these kinds of things. Do we really want it? And so, that was my concern. And I wanted to thank you all. I know what it's like to serve on these kind of councils and boards. It's a very thankless job. Thank you for all you do and I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Okay. Uh, commissioners, any questions? Uh, even even if you want to ask a question, go ahead. But you got a question, go ahead. Or did you want to talk? >> Come on up. I normally say come on down, but you know. [laughter] >> Do you want this? >> Yes, please. All right, introduce yourself, Mr. Bandy. >> So, my name is Eric Bandy. I'm at 1694 Ivory Avenue North. Um, actually a recent resident of Lake Elmo. Moved a little under two years ago, uh, from Shore View. Um, you've heard a lot tonight already from, uh, everybody on the noise. Um, and that is something I think you're going to hear as a common theme. I'm not going to cover what was already said. I thought it was stated very well. Just wanted to add a couple more things. Um, one, you're obviously probably aware there's another development. Sounds like two more developments coming in. Inwood is incredibly busy and the amount of traffic is a constant noise. Two, we can hear the gun club um from our property. So, there's already a constant pop pop. Um, and it depends on the weather as far as the temperature as s sound travels, but it's a pretty regular some of our neighbors are here. It's a pretty regular occurrence. So, there is already a heightened level of sound sensitivity just due to as the park sits today with the traffic. You can hear even hear 94 sometimes and with the gun club. So, adding anything that would add to that noise floor just starts to degrade the overall experience of living in the neighborhood. Um the other thing I'd mention and while I appreciate the the thoroughess, the thoughtfulness and the survey, it is a low sample size. Um if it would actually be pretty beneficial to get um you know a slightly larger sample size to make sure it's a good representation of those that actually use it. I was the first one when you read the comments. I was the first one. I'm out there almost uh daily with my dog throwing the Frisbee. Um we use the park. I do see people out there. Um it is a park that is warrants being updated and something to be done with. Um there's I don't think there's much uh debate on that. I think the question is how to balance the needs of the community with the issue of additional noise and then the traffic issue because there is only one through street and it would add a lot and it's curvy and all of us if we're not walking in the park we're walking on the street with our dogs and it pretty common um to see people out and about walking and so if people end up having to drive through the neighborhood because they can't get out the other way it starts to add a tremendous toll on the overall neighborhood and feel. >> Okay. >> Thank Thank you. All right, back. Commissioners, do you have any comments, questions? Where? Oh, at so there's no place you could put a pickle ball court, right? You're saying, right? Nowhere in that entire area that meets that requirement. That's what I heard. I think we did do some measuring when we were having the discussion of the of of you know like on the corner over there. >> Yeah. I mean you'd be Yeah, you'd be definitely directly right next to the the road here somewhere. Probably out in here maybe, you know, maybe in here. I you know it was it was very >> chair. Do you mind if I respond to that? >> Yeah. I I was on the GIS thing today doing measurements. >> Um there are spots for it, but I'm not sure why we're talking about it since it's not on the plan, but but there are spots for that's within outside of 600. >> I was purely asking because there were a lot of people who said pickle ball. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> But >> yeah, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. >> Remember how many people said pickle ball? >> I have a list. one >> 12.5% >> four >> yeah I don't have all the data so there's four or five >> out of the 32 that responded >> out of the people who wrote comments >> and we know it's a small sample size yeah >> do we know what subdivision those people would have been in because I think the >> we don't we don't know >> they don't have to be next >> right >> did Adam, we don't have that in the plan, right? Am I missing something? Do we have pickle ball? >> No. Uh, they do in the one they said that they may line it for uh potential pickle ball. >> They talked about lining it for >> that. That'd be it. Otherwise, they'd be basketball court. >> What? Sorry. Lining what? >> Lining the asphalt, the court so that you could bring in a portable net. >> Oh, for the at the basketball court. >> On the basketball court. >> Yeah. Gotcha. I missed that. Thank you. So I have a question on the pavilion. >> So it sounded like there was kind of mixed responses on that whether they wanted one or not. Is that right? >> Yep. And some of that come might come with you know you know your judgment of what a pavilion is versus the next one. Right. So you know we know that our carriage station pavilion is a lot different than what we might have at you know um you know Goose Lake or something like that. Right. So, it all depends on like what your what your what your perception of what the pavilion may be like. So, >> yeah, thanks Adam. I had um one question about the pavilion and a very related and similar question about the ball field. I guess my question is um were the contractors able to see the survey results before this? because when I see the survey results, I would, you know, think it'd be nice to see an option maybe without a pavilion and also without a ball field because those ones did have the really mixed responses. >> Um, and if or like if not, is there the opportunity to um, you know, like how long are we able to discuss this and like a back and forth before you are going to need some type of recommendation? >> Yeah. Yeah. So to answer your question, yes, they were provided the information, the survey results before they made the concepts. >> Okay. >> So, um you know, if you were to say, hey, let's proceed with, you know, this concept um with options with and without um they'd be more than happy to probably do that. They're looking for which one do we want to proceed with and what are the things that you'd like to see changed in those things. And again, I just want to reference is that, you know, whether we pick, you know, either concept, um, you know, this is the future outlook of what that park could be. Um, I could show you pictures of what the future outlook of Tablin could be when we did the concept plan for that, and none of that's there. I mean, we had No, the ball field's there, correct? And our tennis courts there, right? Uh, but where the where the swing set is was supposed to be a large basketball court that, you know, and now holds swing set, right? So, um, the playground wasn't even down below when that was put down there. So, there was a large picnic area in there, too. So, you know, I I just want to reiterate the the concept plan is kind of just a, you know, if we do it in phases or we come back and look at it in two years and put items in our CIP to uh to make this a future plan. And that's kind of what we're looking for. Our biggest item right now is that playground. Where does that con where do either one of these concepts look for a good placement for that playground so that we can uh build around that? >> Sure. >> I um I think currently between concept A and concept B I think concept A is a little bit better. Not only because the parking lot entices people to travel through Inwood and not travel through the neighborhood in ivory but also the um since not many people want a pavilion. If we have it closer and everything's more like together, it creates more of a community sense. The only thing I don't I question is do you think one water basin would be enough >> water basin >> the um collection pond? >> Yeah, the storm water basin collection. Do you think >> Yeah, that would be that would definitely be an engineering standpoint where you know this is just a concept. So they would they would come and actually survey the area as far as you know how much water they're actually collecting off of imperative surfaces and then say hey this is where you need to collect that like that. Adding asphalt in there does create additional storm water uh retention ponds. So you know when you do make a um a parking lot like that the the water runoff needs to go somewhere. So the corners of those parking lots are likely going to proceed into a storm or catch basin at the end of those which aren't shown on either diagram. >> Other comments, questions, ideas? >> Adam, is the is the field is anything there currently programmed? >> No. >> So okay. So you don't have we don't have any organized groups using either. >> So they may use it but it's not reservable. So we would know like um the history of you know organizations reserving it. >> And did we look at kind of just the demographics of the area? I guess kind of what are the demographics now and what do we anticipate? I know there was a comment about you know younger families coming in. Um as we think about you know what should be in there, what should not be in there. >> Yeah. So, um, some of the, you know, when you start looking at county data where where those demographics are, you're looking at more of the community again. So, you know, younger families, things like that. So, we it doesn't actually get right down to what these three developments have initially, per se. Um, so that was not taken into account for this survey. Um, just >> Okay. Um, and then just kind of my last I mean I I guess right now I struggle with kind of to Ellen's point. Um, you know, and you know, obviously we have a city council that me mentioned looking at other things in parks that aren't traditional. And I I think a playground would be needed and that would have to be strategically put if you're going to do it in phases. But I I struggle with some of the other components that are on the plan right now. And I don't know if there's any other amenities that could go in there that would, you know, work for the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Um, but I'm struggling with, I guess, the ball field and the soccer fields a little bit. >> Okay. >> A question on the ball field. Is that a You said it was a youth. Is that a competitive youth ball field the way it's measured out or I mean is different than a recreational what we would term a recreational league which is or not league but um park that's at CLC for example. So I it just quick discussion with the with the the representative from bold. This would be more set up kind of like your um your reap right so it would have a back stop with some placement for seating right wouldn't be covered or anything like that. So just to just to update it um you know would it be used for the it would be itemized down for the our smaller youth to use and not competitively. I would I would say like a number of games there. But >> are you able to speak to the citizens concern about the the balls going towards houses and yards? is that >> uh based off these concepts I can't just because of you know distances or where this is actually placed you know um but uh to his concern you know definitely I mean where the where the one is located now I can see exactly what he's referring to this one is turned a little bit but based off like just demographics of where this is at I'm assuming you may or you could have the same um outcome >> okay and I guess the add-on question to that is if we didn't do a ball field at all. Is there a need for a parking lot at all? I kind of anticipate that the reason that that parking lot is there is because you're going to have organized ball going on there. >> Yeah, good point. I mean, you know, um it's for the, you know, it's for all amenities, right? So whether it's soccer or, you know, if you you look at more of the frisbee golf in that area or, you know, you just look at it, you know, as an area for for nature walking. Um we have improved that lot a little bit in the last year and mainly just because of the construction that was in that area. Um but um I think you know generally now you see cars there probably in midday and things like that more taking lunch than um probably actually utilizing the parking. >> Yeah. I think the main thing you'd be talking about is size of the the parking. I think, you know, just having a dirt road or whatever is not, you know, space is not great, but >> I think the main thing you're talking about is whatever amenities, you got to size it for the amenities. >> So, if you don't have many amenities, it's going to be kind of look at look at our concept like up in de Montreal, right? Um, so that does have a curved uh parking lot similar to concept B, probably 10 to 12 parking spots in there, has a ball field, has a playground, and probably definitely suitable for that area. Okay. >> So, a couple sort of questions, thoughts, but again, like with the sports complex coming, then I also question the field, the need for the fields. And then kind of to what everyone else is saying, what other opportunities could there be? I know it was identified like a fitness type equipment or whatever that what however that was defined, a fitness [laughter] park, whether that could be used in that space or not without the fields. And then with all the walking, you know, I mean, when I looked at it, I I liked the trail, the additional trail with concept B. I mean, just for the walking, but again, depending on what you put in that space, if there is something else identified where the fields are, then that concept B with the additional asphalt trail could make sense for that. Um, yeah, just kind of continuing off of that train of thought that I have many of the same um thoughts, but I also like the the trails through the woods like are pretty nice. And um I guess I just wonder I'm not aware of anything that the city has specifically that was in the park's master plan. Um, but Adam, I don't know if you're aware of any um like recommended setbacks or anything like that, space requirements for something like a disc golf set that could use some of that open meadowy space. Um, >> yeah, >> I don't know. >> So, just uh you know, there is a third party involved with this because there is a conservation easement with this park. >> Okay. >> So, and that does and it is more on the nature side, right? So, it is protected on that. So we would need to invite them into the conversation as well at some point you know as we begin to uh do the next phase or you know when you start putting those asphalt or trails or adapting some of that you would need to bring them in and get um acceptance from that conservation as well. >> Great. Thanks for bringing that up. >> So I agree about the ball field. There is an underuton park field isn't used a lot. There's we have a lot of neighborhood ball fields that are close to this one. Um, if we were to keep it, would it be cost prohibitive to move it more to the northwest and then swing the playground around to the to the south more or is that too much c and to uh solve the problem that the ball's going too far? >> That's definitely something I could bring up to him is to provide a different transition of the ball field and and playground set in different um in a different design, you know, in different areas. >> So, we're not locked into that area is what I'm saying, right? With the terrain. Okay. >> And >> I mean, the train if you if if you drove by and you looked at the terrain, it does like proceed up to from the road up to the ball field if you're down by the by that pond on the far west side there, but or sorry, east side. Um, so I mean there's definitely going to have to be some excavation to be done in order to make it a flat surface for ball field or a soccer field. Where the ball field is now is probably your flattest area, you know, because you do walk up to it. But, um, if you were to move that over towards the playground, it does proceed, you know, have a a greater slope that you'd have to have some excavation in that area. And then if if we were to eliminate the ball field currently, could those fields be graded for soccer but not big organi organized games, maybe the smaller, you know, younger grade school kids for practice like they do up at Oakland Junior High now Oakland Middle School now. >> Something could be, you know, and it's no it would be no different than what we what we do at my what we do at uh Pilot Park, right? So we offer two nets. It's not lined. Yeah. Um >> you know, kids uh parents, families come there, they utilize it. Um, neighborhood kids use it. And um, I know this dynamic shows three line courts. To be honest with you, public works isn't going to be out there lying. U question about the um as far as what Bolton did for looking at putting amenities in. I know that the the master plan does I think you had kind of mentioned this master plan does call for either a skate park there or at Tablin as well as Disc Golf Either at Ridge or another location. Do you know if they looked into either of those? Yeah, both those were brought up to them prior to the survey um as um items to consider in there as well. Um but yeah, definitely they took the items that were um took the most survey results from the survey. >> So the those specific amenities were listed in in the survey is what you're saying. >> They were uh they were not listed in the survey for like an example, but they were they were provided to the designer. >> Okay. prior to the prior to the survey. So in our discussion when I was interviewing with them about what our concept was I provided that information that was provided from that uh parks master plan which included yes the skate park the disc golf uh we had um the exercise park as well. Um just some other options that we had that were floating around um >> that we wanted to utilize in our parks. Just kind of a direction the city council gave us. Do you know why they didn't include that? >> I do not. >> Okay. >> City council talked about a water park. I didn't hear anything about that either. >> Other comments, questions? >> I knew that would get the crowd going. [laughter] >> Um, >> sorry. Go ahead. >> Am I asking a lot of questions, but >> that's why we're here. >> The traffic issue certainly certainly is. I mean, it's an it's an issue to be addressed. That's that's not what we do. So, how does that fit into the puzzle for I mean, obviously, engineering gets involved, the county gets involved, people get involved, but is it really how appropriate is is it for us to be making any decision at all about how parking or traffic goes? I I have trouble. I hear the concerns. I recognize the concerns. I also know that you want to have a place to park and get traffic moving, but it doesn't Yeah. How how do we balance that? >> Yeah. I think you just look at that as the hindsight of it, it's like understanding that the cost of that of putting that in there is going to be probably extremely expensive. I mean, so when you look at uh concept A um as a the future buildout of that, that tiein would probably in my eyes probably would would not happen, you know, um just because of cost effectiveness. So, you know, could you do the parking lot without that extension into uh Ivywood? Yeah, potentially. Um but I think the purpose of it is for is for flow, right? To okay, get in, you know, keep keep >> cars. So why would we be deciding between concepts if we know one of them is highly unlikely to be done? That would be a suggestion you'd give is to remove uh or move the parking lot to a better location or to eliminate the the access off inwood um and have them provide you a different example of how you could utilize entrances off of IV. I guess my thought at this time would be to request Bolton and make go back get to the drawing board and look at some different options >> and maybe rethink some of these a little bit. >> Well, that's one of the point of this meeting is to give that input to go back to them and say, "Okay, >> you know, >> if you don't like either concept, we could I could tell that they don't like either one. >> Um, here's what I want them to buy." No, but we've provided a variety of different concepts and comments that we could meld into something else. >> Any other comments? >> I would just say I mean given that feedback too, then based on what they come back with, make sure the parking, whatever that looks like goes with the plan. So, okay, you're not going to have fields then you probably don't need that much parking. So, just I'm assuming that's what they would do. But, >> right. >> Anyway, >> go. [snorts] >> Yes. I think it would also be really helpful for us as a commission if they've considered some other amenities, but there's a reason that it's not being presented, right? If we can just like see a little bit of that work so we're not asking questions that are uh inappropriate, you know, like help us um help the community, I guess, would be that would be great information to have. Just a point of clarification, chair, are we are you we taking comments on this whole right now or >> we're taking comments. There's no motion. There's no nothing. Comments, input, suggestions. >> Okay. >> Go to him. >> Okay. Well, so I'll make the comment that I I don't know how that ballpark fits uh geographically within the park. I don't have concern with us having another recreate not sorry a competitive level whether it's if it's for youth along with this supposed sports complex which we're a long way from right now having uh shrinking our recreational fields which we have 12 of that are very underutilized but having ones in appropriate places that are are um competitive level for for youth to utilize with the proper amenities that go along with it. I guess amenity for parking isn't really an amenity, but the parking that goes along with it. This to me is an appropriate park. It's 23 acres, which is >> on on the large side for a Lake Elmo park by far. Um it's one of the top top five for sure. Um whether we can get the drainage right and get the balls not going into the yard, that obviously has to be uh determined, but I I think there is room for it in this park. There's room for it, a need for it in Lake Elmo. Um I would like to see some variation on what amenities we're putting in as far as again that the the master plan does call for some alternate amenities and I think those are worthwhile looking at. Um, that's my that's my comment on on this. >> Anything else? Okay, for the public that is here, this is very good you're here. Very good you're providing input um because a lot of things we've been involved with. Uh we take send out surveys. We do park bypark discussion at the meeting and then we go and do something and we get a room full of people all upset because something was done. All right. Unfortunately, the bad thing about this is it goes on and on and on. Okay. So, you guys need to be alert and see when there are meetings, see when there are surveys. The weekly um Blake Elmo email that goes out is very good at doing those kind of things. But it goes on and on and on. As you can see, this is just the start and we had a lot of different inputs. And I agree it's an important park because also of that area where it's situated at as was pointed out earlier there's a potential for growth and so it could become a very important park but there are concerns. So um my email is in the uh page if if you want to write something you can write it to me. Of course I don't do anything with it. I just give it to Adam. Um, but it's input that will go in and some of it will be looked at and maybe it's feasible and not or whatever. But it's very good that this group is here. >> Okay. This question is for you because you can brilli that whole section of land property was partially needed to Minnesota. >> Yeah. >> Is there a dividing line of what is city property availability? What is not touchable? Is there >> There isn't there's not like a definite line of like, yep, you can build in this area or not. Um just kind of an agreement with that land trust and that conservation ement to about things that are placed there and how it's used. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, we keep them posted and they provide their feedback to it's a way that they do that. Now, I'm sure if we put in something that was too crazy in there, too anti- nature, there would be a lot of feedback, but that's how it works. Okay, one more back here. >> Yeah. a lot of >> Yeah. Right. I mean, >> yeah. I mean, based on you, you you I mean, you guys know this better than probably a majority of us, but you know, back in here, it gets wet in here, right? Uh but there's a dry spot in here. So I mean I you know but as you go back around definitely during it's seasonal, right? So things do get wet and things like that. So our driest part likely is where the ball field is. You know um the berm that was put in there at that time was to help maybe drain some of that water out of the uh out of the playground area. But ultimately, you know, your parking lot area, you know, towards that ball field is your higher ground in that area. uh you know it's not quite half of it but um it'd be less it' be like a third of that >> is really just to put this into >> yeah well the rest of it is park there's paths through it there's walking area it's a park there's there's sandill cranes there's >> so >> noisy >> noisy >> noisy sand >> park all right I want to wrap this up and uh thank you again for your attendance >> [snorts] >> All right, we are off to the Lake Elmo pickle ball friends donation. >> Don't say the word pickle ball anymore. >> We could. >> Yeah, it's true. >> Thank you. Uh so the Lake Elmo pickle ball friends has offered to donate several items to the pick uh to the pickle ball courts at at Pebble Park. Jennifer Waters recently reached out to the city with a suggestion to donate several items that were handmade by members of the pickle ball club. These items include two uh wooden benches, a paddle rack, a drink rack, and a portable fence to divide the north and south courts. Uh, so they should before the parks commission is should the parks commission accept the donations offered by the Lake Pickle ball friends club. Um, so just a couple pictures of the portable fence that was in there. I don't have pictures of the the benches or the the holders, but this is just an example of the u the items that are were included to make the portable. Um, so there are no financial obligations to accept the donation. uh if the commission chooses to accept it, any exclusion should be made for future upkeep and removal of these items. Um as you're reading the packet, this is one of those situations it's it's a little tough, right? So, um, we did make the recommendation of not accepting the donation, uh, based on the fact that, you know, if they were to make one, uh, the funds were there likely by that nonprofit to incorporate, uh, permanent fence, permanent benches, things like that that we would have to maintain or upkeep in the in the future. So, uh, we leave that open to the park parks commission for recommendation, but that would be staff's recommendation. >> Okay. questions for Adam. >> I have a question. >> I I have a >> um it's not necessarily about the the donation, but is there it it gets to pickle ball a little bit. Is there a reason moving forward specifically with benches, paddle, rack, maybe not the dividers because that's a little more expensive that that's just not budgeted as part of when we do pickle ball courts? >> Yeah. So, uh, just to give you a little brief history on those two sets of pickle ball courts, we didn't have a 100% um um motion by the parks commission or the city council to do [clears throat] either of those projects at the time. We were nearing about five almost half a million dollars to do the project. So, adding that additional fence in there was going to at that time I think it was about 20 25,000 to do it. knowing that we likely weren't going to be able to push what we had, I wasn't looking to add more money to the to the to the debt in order to do so. So, that was one of the reasons why we didn't put it in there. Is there room for it there? Yes, there is. Um, but it would be it'd be a separate fence and we were trying to utilize the old fence that we had at the time. So, yeah. >> Other questions? >> So, all of those items have already been put there, >> correct? >> Yeah. Yep. >> They didn't have prior approval to do that. >> Correct. So that's why they're asking. >> Okay. >> As we talk about pickle ball noise in the near future, which will come up in our next session um meeting, you know, one of the things that we do got to take into consideration is the fencing that does surround that. Right. So, one of the things is is the fence that's currently there likely will not hold the weight of the items that we have to put on there to barricade the noise. >> So, we may be in a situation where we have to replace two sides of that in order to incorporate that. So, >> you know, at that time, is that a better time to incorporate permanent fencing? Potentially. >> So, I'd like to speak to it a little bit as a pickle ball player. Okay. >> And I was there today looking at the racks. Most pickle ball, many pickle ball courts have a rack for the paddles used for when people are waiting to rotate in and out to take turns. It helps resolve some issues about saying who was here when. Um, so that's helpful. And there's all sorts of different ones. You can get very fancy. Theirs is just a basic one. I took some pictures if you want to look at them. Um, they took it upon themselves, you know, when they when the pickle ball courts were first built and people were asking why don't we have the dividers because it's a that's a safety issue, too. Um, why don't we have u the racks and stuff? Well, we had kind of I think some people on the on the commission had said, "Well, maybe the people who use it can donate that similar to the Still Water um when they had at um the Still Water Pickleball Association. It's dissolved now, but they would collect money from the members and provide things like awnings and benches and and bins to keep things in and whatnot." Um, and so the Pickball players did come up with this, you know, they made it, they offered to maintain it. It's nice to have benches inside the court, both at Tablin and at Pebble Park. They're really nice benches on a concrete base, but they're outside of the courts. Um, it would be nice if they were inside. So, they just built these simple wooden benches for it, which they'll take care of. Um, I I don't really have any issue with with them building them as long as they're safe and they they look sturdy. When I sat on it, didn't, you know, it was fine. Um, and they said they'll take care of it as long as it's not a a safety issue and they're willing to maintain it. I think this is what we had kind of hoped the pickle ball players would who utilize it a lot would do. I I'm personally not comfortable with the fencing though. >> Oh, the fencing that they have. >> The fencing that Adam just showed us, the green. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I That's completely unsafe to me. I could not support that. I'd have a trouble with that. I think that's a I think that's a liability. >> Yeah, I wasn't addressing that. I forgot about that. There is uh this year the Still Water Parks put up a um fencing in between the Northland is the really nice park with permanent fencing, but in their other pickle ball courts, they took PVC pipe and made a frame that kind of looks like as long as a tennis net perhaps. And they put some really um inexpensive plastic weaving in between, not as thick as this weaving here. um and use zip ties and it they've spent a lot of money on the PVC but it's it's not real good as it stands. I mean there's all sorts of different ways to prevent the balls from going into courts. Um this one it was all blown over today. So it looks like it's knocked over easily. It's a nice attempt but it's it's not anything longterm and it could be dangerous like you say. So, Adam, staff is not supporting having it donated, but it's not as if we are banning it, right? They can still bring it even if they don't give it to the city, >> they can still bring it. >> So, our direction to uh the donors or that club would be, yeah, they could bring it in to utilize, but they'd have to remove it after they they're asked to take it back with them after each each use. >> Okay. >> I feel like there's almost certain amenities that definitely the benches and as you were saying with the pickle ball reserving like who was next. I think that's definitely helpful and it's good. I see the concern with the um temporary net of stopping the balls and I know that is a problem at um Pebble, but would there be a way to accept the bench and certain amenities and then reject the temporary I mean unsafe fencing? That be a possibility? I believe that you could fashion a motion that would say that whether so I assume if I don't the group is the only people who would have a problem I'd say with it. >> Okay. Well, we wanted to give you all this stuff. Why are you only taking some of >> but they might not have a problem. >> Yeah. My only suggestion would be is like um you know um you may want to reconsider even the bench part of it. paddle holders or drink holders. Um have your opinion on that. The bench would be maybe another consideration what not not to approve. Um whether they're in good condition or not. May want to get something from a an actual >> bench company. That's why we suggested the aluminum one. Something that's, you know, can be put there, be utilized, be moved. Uh >> well that's one thing that we we could do is basically as you were saying is make a recommendation not to accept it as a gift now but with comments >> and the comments might be hey this stuff really needs to be permanent. >> All right you can still bring it in and out but if you're going to give it to the city it should be permanent. So you could phrase a motion like that. I don't know if we're making comments or asking Adam's questions. >> Well, yeah. Well, we're just asking questions. That's why you got to phrase it in the form of a question. >> I mean, I don't know if we're discussing I mean, if we're having discussion before a moment, a motion. >> As long as you got to put a question mark at the end. This is Jeopardy. [laughter] >> Okay. I can I can >> but otherwise I'm going to need a motion and then we can discuss the merits of the motion. But if you have any more questions hearing no questions, there was a question. >> So Adam would there with as far as regarding the bench is is there a liability issue at all? >> Yeah, I think just being on the structure of it, you know, we we're not inspecting the benches, right? Because you know, does our playground inspector go through there? Yes. But what's he looking for at this point? you know, is, you know, is it nine penny nails that were used or should they have used some, you know, you know, type 10 screws, whatever it may have been, like that shouldn't be his, he shouldn't be having to go through that. You know what I mean? So, knowing that it comes from a reputable company that makes benches that's, you know, warranties them. That's that's a lot easier to go through than to, you know, eventually go there and find it broken and just dispose of it. like questions. Now we need a motion. Um, I've never done this, but I'll motion to accept certain donations such as the paddle ball holder and the drink holder and make recommendations to the donators on certain ways to make the uh amenities more permanent. I don't know if there's a better way to definitely better way to phrase that. >> So, we're not accepting not accepting in there someplace. >> Is there a second Now second it discussion. I feel I mean looking at it I feel like there's initiative and I know we could just turn him down completely. I do see the concern with doing this and then upsetting people though. >> Um yeah, I think that the the pedal rack has been something that we have heard multiple times in multiple ways even though it hasn't been called out specifically as something that is likely needed. Um people that live near here can't get on the courts to play pickle ball. um you know it seems very functional and so I am um I feel much more favorable about that. I think that um yeah the other elements have more pros and cons. I guess I'll just say I'm in in favor of having a legitimate vendor supply park amenities and parts pretty much across the board. I 100% into people utilizing a donation process to do that. But uh whether it's park benches or whether it's gazeos or whether it's rack holders, we should be buying from a vendor. we should be aligning it with our design aesthetic. Um certainly we could put money towards benches. We can afford that. Um if it doesn't have if it's not a donation, but I'm I'm in favor of um of having it from a vendor and having it look nice. I think the that fence in particular, I I think I was very curious as to how that got there. And I I just don't think it's one, it hasn't held up to do what it's supposed to do. And two, it just doesn't look it just doesn't look right for something that we just spent how many thousand hundreds of thousands of dollars on and have have some snow fence in there. So, I'm not in favor of of [snorts] having that any of those items in there. I don't again that the initiative for them to donate. Absolutely. And there's there's appropriate we have an appropriate process for that. >> Other comments on the motion. I feel it's okay to accept the paddle holder for now in the hopes that people will organize and uh get uh one. I don't want to be offensive to the people who took the time to build it and sand everything and it looks nice, the bench and that, but um I think it would be nice to have uh what do I say? I don't want to say storebought, but um a better type of paddle holder and benches. I agree with you about the benches for the future. I think it's fine for this year, the rest of this year, which is short time. Not much left comments. >> Um >> I'm still thinking. >> Still thinking other comments. Yeah, I feel like I mean it if we accepted the the paddle racket, whatever it's called, the holder as a temporary for now, fine. It's it's it's it's allowing that acknowledging I guess it has very little to zero risk. Um but you know, we reserve the right to say it can't be there anymore. you know, as a city if for some reason it is an issue, but it it seems like a okay, we'll take this, but the rest of it does not make sense for all these reasons we just talked about. Yeah. Okay. My comment is um in the donation form, the care and maintenance of these other elements apart from the net, I don't think are covered. like are they planning on leaving the paddle rack out there all winter? You know, is a is a question that's left open with the donation form? And I feel like an answer to that may inform my opinion, my ability to be um supportive of Yeah. >> Well, I think that maybe speaks to whether it should be there in the first place. A little bit >> fair. Very fair. >> Okay. Do we want to reread the motion? >> Oh, yeah. >> Do you have it? >> Yep. So, there's a motion to accept the paddle rack and drink holders, reject other elements, and give comments to the donors. >> Okay, everybody understand it? >> I have a question. Does that mean that we're giving comments to the donor donors or are you doing that again? [laughter] >> You're on the hook, please. >> So, are we ready to vote? >> Yeah. >> All in favor of the motion signify by saying I. I. All opposed? >> Post >> I >> or no? Nay. 43 do math again. >> Math >> I threw me. Wait a minute. Nay is usually >> nay. Yeah. Okay. >> So is what? >> Pass 43. >> Pass 43. Good. Thank you. Good. Great assistant. Okay. How about the bench? Another bench to look at. >> Yes. Um, the Graph family has offered to donate $1650 to be used for a community improvement within Sunfish Lake. Uh, Linda Chris recently reached out to the city and uh, with the interest to donate to donate money for the purchase of a park bench to be placed at Sunfish Lake near the entrance to the bike trail. So, um, she the, uh, part of the bench would include a plaque. Uh if you're looking to have that plaque in memorial of Neil Swenson who lived the life um of kindness, joy, love, um this would be written on the plaque um and with the final saying of Let's Ride. So um I did speak with uh Linda a little bit about her donation. Um the you know Neil was an avid user of Sunfish Lake. He loved the trails and so uh their request was to put it near the entrance of the trail. um um right at the entrance of the park where the first trail uh begins there for the for the bike ride. So um so I thought uh very appropriate very similar to what we've done in the past. Um so the next thing would would be uh should the parks commission accept the donation offered by the graph family. Again this is a sample of what would be placed there. This is the one that was placed at Tablin Park. So this would be identical to what would be placed uh at the entrance in sunfish. Again uh as far as the parks commission u the city uh there is no financial obligation to the donation offered by the family. If the commission chooses to accept the donations any exclusions like we have in the past should be made for future upkeep and removal of the items. So again um on entrance to that bike trail there is a number of trees there. should something fall in it, it should be noted to whether that would be replaced by the city or if it just be disposed of. Just items like that that we continue to do. Um those are listed those are listed one through seven or sorry eight uh in your packet as well. Um otherwise pretty straightforward donations. questions about the donation of the money for the bench. >> Do you have any concerns about that loca? Does that location make sense to you as far as where they want it? >> It wouldn't be like it would be in the woods off the side of the trail just like we have done for the other two in there. So, it would um so um no, we don't have any concerns of where it's going. Um we we definitely we've looked at the area. um the placement for it would be um would be useful. >> Okay. Okay. >> And just a quick question for my benefit that donation amount covers bench plaque and concrete. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. We don't make any money on on any of the donations. Um our purpose is to just, you know, um we got a price to the to what we have in it for materials. Sometimes the bench does adjust. Um It's that is >> other questions. >> Hearing no other questions. Do we have a motion? >> I'll make a motion to recommend to the city council to approve the donation from the graph family to purchase the bench, plaque art, and installation materials not to exceed $1650 and be placed in Sunfish Lake Park. >> Is there a second? >> I second. Is there discussion on the motion? We've accepted these benches before. I think the park can always use a few more benches. I don't think we're to the point where we don't have too many benches. So, I think uh the bench is a good idea. >> Yeah. And I think, you know, it's nice to see um family or friends um you know, want to honor their loved ones with something like this. >> All right. Well, if there's no other comments on the motion, then we'll vote on the motion. All in favor say I. I. I. And if you're going to be opposed, you got to say nay. Thank you. All right. Lions Park, future amenities. Yes. Uh on September 9th, the parks commission held a joint workshop with the city council to discuss upcoming park amenity replacements and improvements. During that session, the city council directed the parks commission to explore alternatives to full playground replacements uh in neighborhood parks uh encouraging uh more inclusion of unique and diverse amenities in their place and maybe looking at more uh centrally located um playground set. So, so just a quick reminder on our capital improvement plan for our Lions Park in 2026. We do have the the playground that we're looking to have installed, the surface reconstruction of the pickle ball courts that we'll talk about. Um, an additional new park pavilion that we've uh chose Lions Park for for 2026, and then an expansion of the asphalt trail network. So, I'll kind of just go through those one by one here. So, the issue before the parks commission tonight is first uh would the parks commission like to make any changes to our alliance park playground recommendation to city council. So, again, we reviewed that. We made that recommendation of 315,000. We picked that um we picked that playground set. Uh we submitted to them and they said, "Let's hold off a little bit. Let's have this conversation." Right? So, do we still want to proceed with what we have or do we want to go back to the drawing board with that? Second one would be would the parks commission like to proceed with reconstruction of the courts uh and ice rink surface or recommend a different use or amenity in its place there. Uh mainly that comes with the conversation of our pickle ball conversation right that distance between homes. Third one would be the would the parks commission like to proceed with the construction of a pavilion uh parking lot pavement and the connection um to Lions Park. So the trail connection from the parking lot all the way through to the concession stands initially. And then uh future for 2027 is would the parks commission like to rehab the concession building. So staff is looking kind of a little bit of direction on that as far as when we talk about the pavilion, talk about the concession stand, you know, two different areas. We've had a lot of conversations from the public saying, "Hey, we need more shade next to the um next to the playground for, you know, parents, kids, you know, just because there's the lack of it over there." We have planted some trees, but it could be a number of years before we get the shade needed there in order to provide that. But um we really need to talk about the rehab of that concession building coming up. Um you know, to kind of for that larger planning of does this all fit in place as we as we start putting these items together again that strategic plan discussion, right? So first item again is that council's decision. would the parks commission like to manage uh or make any changes to that design that we put together uh based on the comments coming from city council. Uh did you guys hear anything or any changes you'd like to make or do you want staff to continue to proceed with this option? Again, we went with option four. The cost of that option was 315,000. The commission made a recommendation of 317,000. Uh and again that came with just kind of um the nuance things that come with the playground uh installation, drain tile, seed, black dirt, you know, just the just the tidy things up there at the very end. So second one was again um proceeding with the construction or reconstruction of the uh pickleball courts and ice rink. Uh what we found is that surface was cracking. We removed nets because it was unsafe and as a trip hazard. Um we we see a lot less players down there now that we have the two new facility or new courts uh at Pebble and Tablin. Um you still see some people down there occasionally, but not like what it was, but again it is reduced due to the uh only being two nets there as well. So one of the considerations uh you know again is that is in the park CIP for 2026. We do have money allotted for that. uh deterioration of the surface. That's a huge issue right now. Um the new pickle ball rules that comes into effect too. Um you know those these courts are 200 feet away from homes already. So >> there's a recommendations on rules but anyway. >> Yep. Correct. Thank you for the correction. Our parks master plan's recommendation of that 600 feet. Right. And what is the future of that ice rink? Um would we like to keep it there? Like to change it? Some of the examples that we have from other communities. This comes from the city of Plymouth. They concreted the whole uh ice rink and it is used in the summer uh for ice rink as well. So it is a skating option at that time versus ice skating is just rollerblading or um I think that's what they call roller blading hockey. So is that a potential option in lie of that if we're going to remove those? >> Um again ours would look more similar to this than your previous image. we would remove that drain in the center of that uh court so water would drain out the side of it versus trying to utilize that storm water drain. But we found with that storm water drain, it does collect heat uh melts the ice faster than we can make the ice. So with this option, it does we're able to make the ice, but it's it'll stay there. It'll create quicker. We won't have that soft spot. So that would be part of the construction plan for that. Third one was the pavilion discussion. Uh we do uh our contractor has come back with some [clears throat] um some initial design. So we could put this design, but we've had it Goose Lake, we have it at um Hamus Park or sorry uh Ivywood Park. Um another one at Pebble Park. So we could continue with this design. Um or would we go all the another direction, make it a little more architectural. Um you're still providing the shade. These are a lot more expensive. um about four to five times more expensive because you are looking at architectural design and individual manufacturing of these items. So you know something in these ranges are going to cost you know your previous example of what we currently have is that 80 to 90,000. These are going to stick in your range of probably like 300,000 for something like this. you you are looking at a spot in our park uh that's going to be that's going to be likely itemized in this general area um for that shade structure or that pavilion. So, uh take that into account as well as as we proceed with like direction for staff of how we want to do that. Um the the current one that we have would fit in there. It's about 28 by by I think dimensions around there 28 by 25. So it would fit in there if we were to go to the original uh design of what we have for our brown um pavilion. Um so this is the general area where we where we construct that. Our next one would be uh discussion of our future of this concession stand. So in um our park CIP currently has it includes a renovation of the concession stand in 2027. How does our current ideas and selections of what we you know what we want to do with the ice rink, what we want to do with the pavilion, what we want to do with the um playground, how does it fit with our future updates of this uh concession stand? So, you know, do we combine that pavilion and use utilize something with this? to remove to remove the concession stand totally um and just make a a walk through traffic and maybe some additional parking there. Um just looking you know just something to think about as well. Uh, one of the concepts we did get back, you know, when we did, we were looking at construction, initial construction cost of this to renovate this to ADA compliance and update that concession stand was going to be about it's it was going to be like about $400,000, closer to $500,000 to redo what we have there. >> But now with the bathrooms, right? >> With the bathrooms. >> With the bathrooms, >> with the bathrooms, keeping the bathrooms there, making the ad accessible for the bathrooms, right? So, um, so with something like that, you could be looking at a concept that look would look similar to this, you know, shrinking that up, still keeping the, um, the space in the middle for a potential gathering or a picnic table or something like that or shelter in those general areas, right? >> But in the main purpose, still continue to keep your your concession stand a little more itemized, smaller um, flow, right? But um, I know one of the concepts was to to have a bottle full station that was important to the commission. Uh we conclude this here or at the other pavilion too. We have water access at both with that. Uh again, we're looking for direction on those four or five items um on how we want to proceed with them. So that I'll take some questions too. >> So this part you can have questions and statements. So, questions or statements about Lions Park? >> Those are really great pictures. Thanks for going out and getting some ideas there, Adam. Um, I think that at least I feel like there's a lot to think about um between our meeting with city council, the um really cool ideas and concepts of what might be possible here. Um, and also just thinking about the desire to have each park have like something kind of unique and to avoid some duplication. Um, one thing that I've realized since our recommendation went through is that our concept of the play structure, half of it with the climbing towers and stuff is very very similar to what Lake Elmo Park Reserve just put in. Um, and so I don't know if that creates um some questions about if we want like if we have the opportunity to think about that a little bit more strategically. Um, that might be something that I'm thinking would be cool, but lot to think about. Just my comment. >> Yeah, I guess I'd echo that. I think the I took a second look after we approved that and then in going through the master plan it says developing Lion's Park as a Lake Elmo destination community park should be a high priority for the city. That's their one of our recommendations that we approved. But it also calls I didn't I didn't recall this. It calls for us to the recommendation for developing a long range plan for that park which we're kind of doing, but it also feels a little bit peacemeal. >> Sure. >> So my question, I guess that's my comment. My question is are are we too far down the road to backtrack and and see even the developing a long range plan whether a long whether whether we're utilizing the space properly? I mean is should we do a have a plan a long range plan rather than try and piece meal this together. I think peace meal is a little heavy it's a little stating a little heavy heavily but >> yeah so I think uh I'd have to look but I think in 2016 there was initial like uh plan of how that all did all dealt because initially there was um I think no quote I think there was two tennis courts there >> and they they changed that over to the the ice. >> No this I mean this isn't our current master plan to >> Yeah. So I I'm just I'd have to look to see if there was a plan in 2016 when they when they revamped the baseball field, right? Okay. >> To include because that's when they did the changes to u the tennis court and all that. Okay. Added the volleyball, right? What what type of plan that incorporated was surveys, you know? Sure. The future of that. So that >> you know and do you piggyback off that or do you take information from that or do you start all over? Right. Yeah, I guess I'm I guess I'm asking is it too late to tap the brakes a little bit here and back up? >> Yeah, you I mean you have a lot of items on the CIP in the next, you know, you have you have Lions Park on the CIP for the next two years. A total reconstruct of it. >> You can always tap the breaks. >> You spend the money on something, but it would push it out. >> Okay, that's that's the thing. >> Yeah. But, you know, we're talking about resurfacing um courts that we're not even she sure should be there at this point, >> right? Or whether a rink should be there or is the concession stand in the right spot? I mean, obviously the field probably isn't going to change necessarily, although it could. >> Yeah. I mean, it could it could at this point >> the playground could you know, >> see, this is one of the big things out here is the bug boo to me is the the big recreational ballpark area. What does that look like? Because for a long time, and I believe Pat brought this up, oh, all cities have this center city park that draws people together. >> Well, I've heard people talk about that ball field and whatever else goes with that as that kind of thing. So, we don't necessarily want to have two things like that. And you're absolutely right. I could see the ball field going away or the nicer ball field going over to the BFW park. There's there's some options. So, I'm in favor, too, of thinking. The other thing, though, is there's really two parts to this. What got the council starting to throw up the red flags was not the details of of Lion's Park. Mhm. >> The problem was this integrated problem with Oh my gosh. We have how many playets? >> 20. >> We have 12. >> 12. >> 12 and 13. >> Yeah. >> And I have in my notes, I don't remember what it was, but one of the councilmen threw out a number to reduce. >> Okay. >> So, that's kind of a side question that needs to be answered. You and I have talked about that about putting together a list and just deciding which playgrounds stay and which playgrounds go. So that's one issue. >> Okay. Then you have Lions Park. Okay. And the way I sit here today, I don't think the pickle ball works in there. Skating rink I'm more interested in. Okay. I've got a big question about whether the ballpark goes or stays based upon this other stuff that's going on because if it goes there's a lot of options then that are available for that park. >> Um and I think there is a need irregardless for the shelter. You had some good ideas on the shelter the concession stand. I know there are certain uh community leaders that are very influential that are very interested in uh the refresh, the remodel of the concession stand to make it more than just a ballpark hot dog place. Okay. To make it again more of this community thing. So I think that's another big question, but we're talking some bucks there. Uh I'll also throw in the fire station. you know, you're going to have this big new >> brew tap >> thing right across the street from there. Uh, it would be a great thing to potentially leverage into activities at the park. Okay. Therefore, there are a lot of questions and so to me, I think staff should start to lay out some steps. Okay, first we might be to go and figure out which play sets we're going to save and which ones we're not. Next step might be to come up with an integrated plan for the park. Okay, with those great drawings, okay, with a couple options and then try to get somebody to figure out if that ball field is staying or going. To me, those are a couple steps that can be done in this. Okay. and how that timing works out with the money. We'd have to figure that out. Okay. But that to me is is the approach to take is to start working on this systematic approach. Okay. So, we decide, hey, we're going to keep the Lions Park playset. Then we can go through and say, okay, here's the money. Here's the thing. Okay. But I want to put a new play set in there and go, oh, gee whiz, we're not going to put any more investment in there. Okay. So, I think there's a step-wise process to go through. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and if the ball field would go, it may need to stay for x number of years, >> you know? So, but but to your point, like it's all got to be planned out kind of strategically in phases, you know, >> right? Yeah. >> So that it all works. >> If we got rid of the boss ballpark, would there be a need for the concession stand at that point? >> Right. That's a good right. >> Well, it would have been nice when they do citywide events, you know, like fireworks and that stuff. the people that I'm talking to are looking at it for >> as kind of the remodel that the Christmas tree lighting, the Fourth of July parade, >> uh the 125th anniversary of the city, uh those types of big events, >> having them downtown and having a place that is suitable for food suitable with the bathrooms. Um that kind of thing which >> farmers market >> farmers market could be a location for the farmers market. >> Okay. >> We did have uh a comprehensive plan did call for a civic square which got abandoned. >> Yeah. >> And to me I think again I think this is four acres we're talking about. It's not a huge space and I guess as you kind of alluded to that ballpark's taking up a section of it, a significant part of it. Um, but I I guess I would be careful with Yeah, I It sounds like what we're talking about is developing a long range plan for that park. >> Um, and more and more that's what I'm in favor of. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I still think some things need to be done now, specifically the playground set. Um >> when I don't know that both playgrounds are going away, both ballparks are going away anyways. Lake EML Ball is growing >> and other people I mean there's Legion Ball, there's other things, >> you know, I think the the four fields over here aren't going to be the answer to everything. You know, they're not going to get rid of Reed Park and they're not going to get rid of the VFW field and whatnot. It's really nice to have a great playground structure between the two playground between the two ball fields uh for siblings of the ball players just for people in town. You know, uh I I think I think it deserves a safe brand new big playground. You mean if the one there is questionable >> and I agree and I agree but part of that is if the council and I'm remembering more they were talking out of those 12 half >> yeah like six >> going away. >> Well I I'll be on record and say that that's not not what I'm here is to be a proponent of playgrounds. So that's >> but that's the question that the council came in our discussion with them. Hey, and that's what prompted them the whole thing here is, oh, we got too much. We it's going the wrong direction. >> Yeah, that's we've got a we've got a budget. We've got the C the numbers in our CIP right now aren't made up. We've got money in there, >> right? So, um I think that's >> I would just be cautious if we did the playground and we do a long range plan and say, "Oops, that's not where it was supposed to go or parking gets rearranged." I think you want to make sure if when we do a new playground, which I think one is would be suitable there, it just might not be in that location that it is now. It could, it could not because some other things may stay or go or get moved around or >> Yeah. >> So, I think a long range plan to support where that would strategically go makes sense. >> Yeah. I guess something that just in seeing some of these renderings that I would be in favor of getting a little bit more information on if things are possible is how do we create some mixed use things like do we need a shade pavilion if the concession stand can be updated to do that in a way that has water available that's going to draw people there in a way that we're not like we can't imagine that right now. you know, that's going to be a really high value element. Um, is there a way to connect the playground like pot if we're talking moving elements in a way that's closer to downtown and like a like a little less shoved off in the corner? um you know I what would it take to move the ball field like if that is going to be double the cost of anything else like I think at least to me that's a pretty decisive answer um about the boundaries that we have to work in but I I guess I would really be supportive of seeing some of these options um laid out in a little bit more advanced way so we could make a more informed decision. I also want to um just like voice the the uh comments that I heard previously about the pickle ball resurfacing being a huge priority. Um that they are in a really nice location for people to, you know, go have a social hour after pickle ball with the town there. And I think that that like the location of Lions Park is so wonderful. Um, but I do think we have a little bit more breathing room now that we have these other courts and taking some time to be really thoughtful seems advantageous to me. >> Good input. Any other comments? I'm wondering um if we were looking for additional space, could the volleyball courts be placed in a different park? You know, would give free up more room in Lions Park and the volleyball courts could go to one of the neighborhood parks? >> Pilot Park already has one which is walking distance, >> but they just said Rich. >> So, yes, there is some possibilities there. taking this all in. >> The ability to make a motion. >> I don't think we need necessarily. >> What did it say? >> Have you got the >> at this time? Staff is not presenting formal recommendations. So, what I'm hearing is um a direction to put in the work plan for 2026 to work on a long range plan for Lionsport. So, we would be eliminating all items. Likely the playground would be removed uh likely in one to two years. So whether we got to that point or not of actually implementing it, I could probably tell you it' probably be removed before we put a new one there. >> So are you saying that if we take a year to make a decision that >> that that playground could be gone? >> Okay. >> Just because of its condition, it's already heaving. It's already moving. >> Okay. Like to make the right decision. So >> that's what I'm hearing is >> we put in the work plan for 2026 to make a long range plan >> that likely won't be implemented until till 2027. >> We might not get this even even if they go ahead right now. It might not go with the city council, right? Because they stopped it before. You got to go back to them, right? That's what's caused all this. >> So yeah, I'm looking for again just the >> Do we want to change what we've already submitted? That's kind of what we're at. I mean, I guess to me just in sequencing of projects and things like this, this feels like a much higher priority item to work on than uh like Ridge Park figuring out what we're going to do there. And so I guess I just wonder is like is it possible for a recommendation to be like pause a little bit, do maybe a mid-range plan for Lions Park, but make it the one of the higher priority things that we're working on right now so we can uh be having this discussion again in February or March. >> I don't know. And I I don't know if that's possible, right? Well, I mean, uh, a concept plan from a designer is going cost money, right? So, that'd have to be in the budget for public works budget 2026. Hasn't been approved yet, the budget, but um, it would still need to be passed by council in order to do so. My recommendation, this is not a motion, but my recommendation would be that we reubmit the playground for Lion's Park and say, "Okay, we heard your concern about the number of these and we will be willing to look at that subject and also we're looking at a overall master plan for the whole park, but we're 100% sure that the playground is needed there where it's at right now and we're still good with that. They can vote it up or they can vote it down. >> Sure. We're stuck with the loca working around it, but that's Yeah. >> Well, that's the only downside. That's the only downside is you'd have to work around it. Yeah. >> We'd have to work around >> We'd have to work around it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think it's okay to have, >> you know, >> well, again, they'll give their feedback. >> Yeah. >> If they they might say, "Oh, no, no, we need a comprehensive plan or we need the list of all the playgrounds. Which ones you're going to cut first?" Fine, then we'll work on those. But our approach right now is to fix the playground as we have proposed. And two other things is that we're willing to look at the overall number of playground equipment in the city and potentially look at reducing some of those. We don't think Lions Park is the place to do that. And then the other part is we're looking at a comprehensive thing with the concession stand and the courts and stuff like that. >> Yeah. I mean, it is curious. It is when you say it like that, it's one of those things where and if they watch this meeting, this would probably be the first that they heard that there are is more to this to Lion's Park that's we're looking to put money into. And so, >> right again, that again speaks to the need for a developing a long range plan. And if you say, "Well, we thought the 300,000 for the playground was it." It's like, "No, we're talking about concessions. We're talking about >> You couldn't tell. They were focused on on >> Well, I know, but I think it's it's just >> No, that's why I think we go back to them with that. We heard what you said, but we think Lion Spark still needs to go ahead and keep on this time frame. We don't want to take it out. We don't have two years or three years of nothing there. So, we'll go ahead with that, but we got these other issues on the table. I mean, along with that, I think that if you talk about other fairly permanent fixtures of that park, you know, the lighting is there. >> Yeah. >> It's been switched over to LEDs, right? >> Or it hasn't yet. >> Um, I mean, I guess I I have a hard time envisioning all of that infrastructure moving. the courts are in really bad shape and we talked about last year for over several meetings I think about you know hey can you do a liner to keep this multi-use like >> you know moving like thinking about what that storm drain is doing and kind of engineering around that. So, I think like I do feel like that was a really rich conversation and I think that at least I am still very happy to see that be a multi-use space with pickle ball and skating in the winter, hockey in the winter. Um, and I don't see the lights moving per se. Is that because I haven't been presented a concept? Also, yes. Remember the lights were a problem, too. But all right, anybody else? Input. This is input time. >> I don't think since >> Thank you, Adam. [laughter] >> Since we've already approved this concept, I the other ones are just side notes, so I don't think there's anything there necessarily there to approve. >> Yeah. No. Um yeah, the the the playground is probably the most important at this point just because you are looking to get on their docket. Right. Right. >> We we've already found out and especially one this size you wait till January and March >> it's it's not put in. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> You okay with that? >> I I can make a comment about the pavilion. I'd like those nice expensive ones, but I think the standard one is more practical with the picnic tables when you're watching kids on the playground. >> When you're watching your kids on the playground and you're in the outfield for watching the other kid on the ball field, >> I just I think that's a more practical type of pavilion for >> I mean, there would be other ways to I mean, I'd like to brainstorm. I mean, there's other ways to do concessions. You could build p a pad for food truck. The associated baseball could do a food truck um with the new food and beverage across the street. is or a partnership, something that could be done with that. Um, so I don't think it necessarily has to be a concession with a window. I mean, I think there's other ways to look at that and still get the shade, still get the restroom, still get the, you know, bottle filler, all of that, but maybe it's I I just don't know if it's in the right spot. >> Yeah. And I think that thinking about the reservations for like, you know, how is this going to be used and is this a way to not recoup any co substantial cost, but is it a way to make a more fiscally responsible decision? >> I think is a valid question. >> Yeah, >> I agree with you on the shelter and and that I think that's the simple one is better. However, if you start going around the cities around this place, a lot of them have, at least in the city center, ones like the architectural ones you were showing. So, I don't know, but I like I said, I I really don't have a problem with it. Anything else? Okay. Good discussions. And that's one of the things I I uh both at with the city council we everybody participated. I looked at the tape and everybody participated or I was there and I everybody participated. >> We get a ribbon for that. >> Uh you get a star at the end of the year. >> Okay. Increase in your pay. Communications update. New website. >> Yes. Just wanted to kind of walk through um walk through the city's new website and some of the do we get to u and ah >> yes >> so our park page does have our information on it does have a lot of the same information that we had at our previous website you know our adopt a park program normally those applicants come in in the spring they help us out with just clean up um but it does go through the the um application for that. Um how you know parks that are available, things like that. Those are submitted to our clerk and they go through those. But also goes on to our commission and as um our commissioner noted before our chair um his information is in there with uh with email uh so that people can contact him as long along with the rest of you as well. So >> where is that picture of >> say that again? >> The picture at the top of the page. Where is that at? I've already [laughter] answer the golf course. So >> Lake No. Is it the Lake Elmo? >> I'm not sure if it is or not. >> Um >> that they put a Lake Elmo picture there. >> It does have a direct link to our donations page as well as our park maintenance request. Uh we added that last year. Um I think there was a discussion that we started here at their parks commission but out of that we do I I received those emails. We get a lot of inquiries just maybe about the dog park trashes throughout the park. It's helpful just in creating work orders for uh staff throughout the well uh throughout the throughout the week. So our parks master plan is included in there as well as our park sites. our park sites is a little bit um you know um interactive a little bit where it does you know you can query them you can um see what kind of amenities are there um kind of the first design of it um like what the picture of the trail maps might be. So kind of a good way to uh for people to navigate through um through those. One of the main reasons for this was to really talk about our GIS and our trails applications though. I know this was one thing that we talked about and you know Pat has brought up uh throughout the years. Uh just more interactive and trail mapping and um you know it's not going to be directly you know way finding while on the while on the map but gives people an idea of of our community um and where things are at. So even if they did go and park at a park, they would know those accesses and how they could get how they could uh integrate throughout the city. Now, we do need to make some corrections on some of the trails as we know if you take just take a quick look, some of these trails next to our new water tower aren't directly in there, but those are come from our future planning um for those designs in there. So, but um on the layer side, you can uh take some of these things out of there. You know, if you just wanted the trails or you just want to know exactly where those parks were, those will highlight up in green so you have a little bit easier way to navigate to those, you can click on those as well. You can get um zoom in and find out what that is, how many anchors, things like that. Um and additional information with that. >> That's cool. um go back to the trails here just a little bit. But um these are identified on the trails as like private and public trails as well. So um we do have those are listed in there so you can through color coded. So you just kind of select on the tally or on the legends what those are and those will you can select and deselect those throughout that. So, um, but like like over here in Eagle Point, this is a private trail that does go back through there. It's just a gravel trail, but it is noted in there as well as on the county um county page as well. So, that's where a lot of this information is extracted from as well as our plan. So, what a good way for residents to see our community trails I think is kind of a big aspect of this of this GIS mapping. This came with a kind of a collaboration or connection when our engineers changed to Bolton and Mink. Um this was part of that adaption that they were able to provide us um on a number of levels uh not only our water sewer storm water but also on our park side as well. So um just a um if you get time please navigate through it. uh I think our community will um utilize it well and kind of better way to navigate through the system. So this is uh changing you know as a community goes it changes when developments present plans or um finalized plans with the city. So you'll see areas especially downtown where we got new development that uh those trails aren't in there uh quite yet. So with that, I'll turn it over to our next conversation. >> It's unofficially. Tony, you gonna talk? >> Yeah. First, I'd like my name is Tony Vanzer. I live the 5050 Kirkwood and Lake Elmo and I'm responsible for for the nature center. Uh I want to give you just a little bit of background. In 2018, our organization was the first adopter of a park in Lake Emmo. And George Johnson at that time decided to take on the the idea of clearing out the buckthornne from Sunage Lake Park. And so, uh, he started out with a group of volunteers every month and after about four months, we came up with the idea, Connie came up with the idea actually of having a buckthorn removal festival. And the purpose of this was not only to recruit more volunteers but also to create community engagement with the idea of taking care of our park and that's we had to miss one year dur during co but uh so this is our seventh year now it'll be next Saturday and we'd like to invite you to come and participate put on your spaces there some of the examples of what we do. We uh we make little buck buckthorn identification kits and we invite parents and grandparents to bring their little ones to to learn how to be environmental stewards by finding the buckthorn and tying a ribbon around it so that the bigger people can pull out the buckthorn or or cut it down. The Washington County Master Gardeners have engaged with us and we've learned a lot from them. Just an example, I don't know, but there's actually two kinds of buckthorn in the park. There's there's the one with the black roots called common buckthornne and the one with the red roots called glossy >> buckthornne and there's only a little bit of glossy buckthorn but they're they're both bad. [snorts] Uh we also have signature things that we do to keep people coming back like we play buck bucks on croquet and we roast hot dogs over bucks on fire stuff like that. So, anybody that gets to work gets a free picnic lunch. So, it's your invitation to come and bring family, friends, team members, whatever. Okay. The the second thing is I'd like to go over the status of the program to remove Bucks from the park. It was begun, as I said, with volunteers every month and uh morphed over into a a much more organized program where the DNR has been supporting it. So the first phase was uh uh paid for out of uh what they call a traditional metro grant out of the conservation partners legacy program that was 154,000 to uh work on 40 acres of of park and I'll show you in in the pictures. It was a particular acreage that was described. Uh once that got going and the DNR like what we're doing, we got another $453,000 that enabled us to work on another 140 acres which uh is essentially the first cut on all of the park that had Buckthornne in it. Doesn't count the water. It doesn't count count the prairies but most of the park probably 85% of what Buckthornne was there would have been covered by that on first cut. Uh then we realized we had to go back and do some other stuff because of course buckthorn doesn't stand still. So, we got an a $50,000 expedited grant from the the DNRCPL program. Uh where things stand now, uh phase phase one is finished. Phase two, the funding will will be completely spent by the end of June and uh the phase three or the expedited grant will run a little bit longer. Um I'm going to show you a little bit of what was done. See, down. Yeah. Okay. The Uh the purple portion is what's being finished on phase two where we're going to be removing dead wood and stopping the possibility of having a a catastro catastrophic fire in that area. And then we're going to go back and uh spray brush to get rid of the word buck has come back. Uh the the yellow hatched area is a phase three grant where there's some there's still some tree removal going on and things like that. Uh there has been some discussion with the parks commission and the council and public works about how intense the work was going going to be done. That's all been agreed. Uh we're going to uh hopefully we'll get a get a cold winter and be able to bring in heavy equipment. If not, that's going to push things back a little bit more. Uh coming coming into spring, we're going to start doing some prescribed burns. And the idea is that if we can singe the buckthorn before the trees get big enough to have berries, it really slows down the production of seed for the seed bank. And uh between that and identifying hot spots that can be treated with with spray, we hope to have a permanent as much as permanent can be uh ma maintenance plan. Uh I'll show you a couple of pictures of how things how things have turned out. This is uh October 23. You can see the book is at that point is still healthy. This is the same the same uh view after it was cleared and burned. Uh this is in May of 25 where you can see where the native plants have come back. There was some seeding and some natural regrowth also. So that's looking pretty good. Uh this is in uh se September of this year. Uh here's a a view from the from the the southwestern corner there looking east. Uh this is in October of 23. This is after it was cleaned and uh again progress is being made. Here's another point looking down at the at the dry area which is sometimes wet when it gets a real rain rainy season. Um that was uh greening greening up after the April 23rd burn. Uh plants are coming back. That's uh uh geranium and it's now it's in bloom. So basically what we're showing here now is from the looking west from that that viewpoint. There's a tree pointed out that's in in the center of the picture there. That that was you can see all the trails are the side of the trail is just covered with bud thorn. Here's how what it looked like after it was cleared. And looking east from here you can see it was very brushy here. That was cleared also. What this enables, it enables native plants to come back. It enables you to see the deer. It enables the insects that would live on the on the native plants, but can't live on buckthorn to return. So, we think we're making pretty good progress. Uh that's after deadwood removal. There there were a lot of deadwood piles in Sunfish Lake Park that would have created an immense catastrophe if it had caught fire on a dry year a couple years ago. But that's been probably 75% cleared and and we still have some more work to finish that. But we're looking forward to being able to do a prescribed burn through those areas without burning burning all the woods. Okay, this is a native plant growing now in in the dismay and it's really really working out well. So that's what I wanted to show you. I want to show you we'll talk a little bit about the future. Uh we have uh so far spent on this program about $661,000 which means that according to the uh DNR regulations for this kind of funding we can only get about 325 more because you can't spend more than 1 million for a particular project. So we're hoping to do two things. We did apply for the 3M uh priority 2 money $1.8 million which if we get that it would it would start up uh sometime in the middle of the coming year and would actually run for five years and this would enable us to finish the cleaning and then go into the the maintenance to understand what we have to do to maintain the park for a couple years. So we're hoping to get that. If we don't get that, we also have the opportunity to apply for an expedited grant which is has been raised from 50,000 to 75,000 and we were told by our contract monitor David the that we we'd be eligible for that. We can also apply for another metro grant up to the difference between what we what we have now and and one 1 million. So, we've been watching that very closely for the opportunities to be able to do that. And uh who knows what'll happen in the future, but uh if we have a decent winter that's cold enough to operate and we when we get some luck from uh uh achieving funding from the DNR, then uh this is going to be a nice nice project. And I'm looking forward to five years from now having the park beautiful and more less self- sustaining. Of course, it's going to require work like the the restored prairie that was put in in 2010 has been burned uh on on the city budget or how however they were able to get some grants every four years, but that prairie has held up very nicely. There's very few wooded areas still in that prairie. We're hoping we can do the same kind of long-term maintenance on the on the buckthorn removal either by Well, it probably be a combination of control burns and going after the hot spots with uh herbicide and volunteer cutting. So, that's that's what what I want to tell you and I want to invite you to come come out and have some buck roasted hot dogs and enjoy a beautiful Saturday morning which we're hoping the weather is [clears throat] going to be good. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Sorry, I kind of gave a bad uh introduction there, but yeah, I reached out to uh Lissa with Santech and and Tony um through this last month and just asked if they'd come and give us an update on Sunfish. I mean, a lot of times when we do hear from Tony, he's asking for money, right? So, I just I wanted to make sure that uh they had an opportunity to um not only express what what's going on there, the future of it, and where they're at in their plans so that uh the parks commission can answer questions from the community or even myself answer questions from the community that come up. So, uh thank you again. I mean, >> can I make a comment? >> Yeah. >> Um I'd like to thank Tony and all your crew for all the things you do for the city. It's amazing all the program programming that you put on for a wide age range as far as the burning this year. It was so neat to see the terrain once all those trees and weeds were out of there. It was just amazing to see it. I I just we walk through there regularly and it just amazed how much more you can see with all the buckthornne and the down trees out of the way. It's really >> that's one of the unique things about that park is the terrain. >> Yeah. So, >> thank you for all the work and the organizing and volunteers that you all do. >> Anything else, commissioners? >> Just a few other communications. Um, just going forward, we talked a little bit about it, but coming up, you know, we'll begin to work on our work plan next month. I like to bring that to the commission first. I think Peter, when you were a chair, we talked about that. We're going to we'll make some changes to it and then bring it back again in December for a final approval before actually submit it to city council. So, one thing that's coming up again, we'll be discussing the pickle ball noise, some solutions for that so that we can implement that by the springtime. Um, our reservation policy, we know we went through that back in June. We'll have to revamp that a little bit and go back through that. So, it's something to come back up and again, um, about three months, at least two months ago now, we talked about just reviewing carriage station. So, uh, keep that in the back pocket as well as that. We'll bring that back up just to review as just kind of our parks review. Um, Is that all in the parks usage plan? Park usage usage guidance, the the rental and the time. >> There's a reservation policy for it. >> Okay. Okay. Um, so just kind of a heads up on a few things are coming forth. You know, porter pies, they'll be removed from our parks that last week that right around Halloween is when we have those removed. Our pickable nets come down about the same time. Uh if the warmer weather allows, they'll continue to stay up there, but if it does start to rain and freeze, we like to remove those beforehand. Um that is all that I have right now. >> Commissioners, >> uh Reed Park looks really nice with the parking lot >> and the side of Reed Park. >> Yeah. >> Looks really nice with the new parking lot and the crosswalk. >> Yeah. So, we got um this week we're looking for the final pavement on that. Um but putting some additional trees in there this last week as well. Um and so I think we should see the grass growing here quite maybe quite this fall here yet, but hopefully. Um but um yeah, it's coming along great. >> Anyone else? If not, do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion to adjurnn. Do >> I have a second? >> A second. All in favor? >> Post