look of course then we lose them we're at 6:30 a call to order the November 18th 2024 City of Lake Elmo Parks Commission meeting first order of businesses is to state pledge allegiance please rise pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all next order of business is to approve tonight's agenda and look that over and if someone wants to make a mo motion I move that we accept the agenda second all those in favor I any Nays no no Nays that passes we have an agenda and then we will move to the item of approving minutes from October 21st 2024 if we take a minute to look those over and offer any corrections or clarifications if there aren't any could also take a motion on that to to approve those minutes move to approve the minutes we have a second I'll second all those in favor I I any NS no a that passes and we're to public comment and looks like we have one individual here were you looking to make public comment general or did you want to wait I'm just GNA wait okay sounds great we will um close public comment then and move to the limr Village concept plan all right thank you Mr chair so tonight the commission will have its second review of the limmerick development the applicant is Maplewood development Incorporated the property is currently zoned rural transitional and guided in the city's comprehensive plan as medium density residential and high density residential the property is just over 78 acres and the proposal before you tonight has roughly 679 units between Apartments town homes and single family detached dwellings the Parks Commission reviewed this request at their February meeting the applicant was originally proposing a 2.42 acre Park um and the commission requested a park closer to the 10 acre land dedication requirement as a reminder part tion can be satisfied in three ways the first is fee in Li of land in this case it' be a little over $500,000 uh 10% land value or 10% land area which is 7.8 Acres or a combination of both of those and then the city can grant Trail credit not to exceed 25% for trails that meet the requirements and then I have a schematic of the revised proposal for you so the applicant is proposing a park in generally the same location as the prior proposal so roughly in the center of the site next to the large storm water Pond that is shown with the blue star and that is 8.02 acres and with this proposal the applicant is also proposing two private Parks shown with the purple stars and the total acreage of that is roughly 1.1 Acres the city's comprehensive plan identifies the property to be fully within a neighborhood park search area uh City staff identified that this quadrant of the city is lacking Park amenities within walking distance and then again the developers proposing an 8 acre outlot for park with off street parking and two private parcel uh areas for Parks the plan identifies the property to be within a city Trail search Corridor along Fifth Street and the plan also identifies the property to be within a road separated Trail along Manning Avenue and then Hudson Boulevard which be realigned as part of this project and again this quadron of the city is lacking Trail amenities so then staff has a recommendation here before you to accept that 8 acres of land uh Trail credit we applicable and then if there's any remaining Park dedication due that would be received through fee and the applicant is here before you tonight if you have any questions for them I also have a slide for the prior proposal in case that comes up in discussion thank you you have any questions or comment for City staff yes my my question is uh relating to the just the outline of this the public park I see that that North portion is clearly public park but what where does this um I don't know do you have a laser point here to we can outline how this how this would end up being eight Acres yeah I guess that go sweet so this area here okay obviously around the North and then a trail or sidewalk pathway around the ponds but it's not including the ponds themselves that yeah that was the pond is 7.38 gotcha so what is to the I guess left of the pond to the west of the pond is that also drainage is that believe it's an infiltration Basin okay all right so it has nothing to do with the park correct great thank you that was um and just for for um scale is that um I guess those are uh soccer fields that correct just shown to how it could be programmed okay okay thank you other questions for City staff so the um is that a building on the right side of the storm water right here yeah um I'll defer to the applicant on exactly what it is I think it's for maintenance of the storm water Pond and infiltration Basin and the ones below these yeah I think those are tennis courts okay but that's all part of the park that whole the whole thing Green Space there that area is not not marked is my question right above where you're at right here yeah that is Park all that however the city wants to program this yeah yes okay all right so that's where you got the eight Acres um can I ask one more question Sophia and in the second map that the Commissioners were sent it looks like the public Park acreage also includes like an outline of the infiltration pond in the storm water Pond presumably for use with Trails if the city programs it that way okay okay do you know how big the parking lot would be is that something that's decided at this time or is that the city decides at a later time Cor do any of the Commissioners feel they need to have the developer come up to speak or are we satisfied with what we have I have a general comment and is that I appreciate the extra detail in the work that was presented this time for the developer okay well if we um don't to have further discussion or actually clarification question for the staff we could have discussion before we took a motion or we could um make a motion and further discuss however we want to proceed I don't know if somebody has a I'll make the motion okay move to recommend the acceptance of approximately 8 acres of land for a neighborhood park with dedication credit for the trails along the soon to be planned Fifth Street and in a fee in lie of dedication for the remainder of on the findings listed in the staff report we have a second a second okay we have a second discussion on this motion well as we talked about before this part of the city needs a park MH U like I said I appreciate the extra work that was done by the developer to figure this out even though they didn't think they could do it it looks like um a good plan so uh I generally support it because of mainly the need in that area to have a park yep I I do as well I I uh appreciate obviously adding the six six acres uh makes it sub substantially more palatable um and it's also in a it looks to me in a way that's going to be usable for the the folks that live here not kind of tucked away in an afterthought which sometimes kind of seems like happens so I really appreciate that I um look forward to it yeah I'd have to agree I like the setup and it's available to not only the neighborhood but for other people also other residents I agree with it all I know it wasn't necessarily the easiest ask that we've sent you back with but I appreciate the work if we have no more discussion I can call the question the motion is to recommend the acceptance of approximately 8 acres of land for neighborhood park with a park dedication credit for trails along Fifth Street and a fee in lie of dedication for the remainder of the base for the remainder based on the findings listed in the staff report all those in favor I any Nays there are no Nays that passes unanimously thank you another Comm yeah almost got me there um next item of business is the 20 2025 Parks Works plan which is something we tabled from last meeting and bringing back to the bringing back to the Forefront yes thank you yeah as uh the commissioner noted um we did we we presented the park uh strategic work plan at our last meeting we tabled that for discussion uh to just change a few things uh before we review that with the with the city council in that January work uh work session group so uh those changes I highlighted in red um and indicate in your packet as well um one of the changes was to explore Trail connectivity options to Sunfish Lake Park I put that under outline uh Park options with that new development as well so uh that was been included in there as we uh move forward in next year also changed um uh our wayfinding option that was brought up by one of the Commissioners so outline some options for Park signage as well as way finding with an option of two outline the needs for a park superintendent Staffing following the 2024 Parks master plan we had a little bit of longer discussion on that if you remember just as I'm that purpose of following that U that Parks master plan that we put all that effort into uh just following those recommendations in general one other item on there was to kind of work with city council to create a more of a plan um um and we plan to do that in that January meeting as well uh the last thing that was changed was uh the tree planting Park tree planting we upgraded that from a four to a two on that so uh those changes being made um looking for a motion to proceed that to the city council thank you have any um questions for staff on Park Works plan I don't have any questions okay well somebody want to make a motion are we really we gonna just Hammer this Hammer this home real quick yeah sure I'll make a motion to recommend the 2025 Parks Commission work plan to city council all right do we have a second a second all right we have a second and discussion on this well we did the majority of the discussion last time yeah I know so I appreciate you going back and I appreciate you following up on the shelters for me that's 2026 starts appreciate that U looks like he Incorporated what we wanted to yeah yeah thanks for doing that yeah I I I guess my only comment is that I really like the process of having two rounds and and being able to uh have some discussion before we feel like we're having to yeah because this is clear you know when you have all those comments and we're trying to keep track of them all and all that kind of stuff so I agree with the chair as this is a this is a good approach and it looks like a good good work plan we'll see what council has to say about uh I'll call the question the uh the uh motion is to recommend the 2025 Park commission work plan to city council all those in favor I any Nays no Nays that passes unanimously and we're on to shilon park Construction thank you so uh several months ago we brought uh in front of the Parks Commission the the new at that time Northstar Park but now since we've Nam that the shilen park um we are looking to uh construct that park with the use of some Trails as well as benches and uh some signage for that Park as we know that we we are limited on what uh can be done in that Park as far as the uh the process of what we can do with that 29 Acres but staff uh since our last meeting has went out and kind of drawn a a concept plan and uh GPS some trails and is looking for your input as far as the construction of those as well so again with that um again this park is nearly 30 Acres it's 29.9 Acres um along with some Park dedication funds that we received uh with this uh Northstar um development we're looking to recommend the city council uh the following construction items which include the trails the benches um the signage as well as um some picnic tables that we plan to put in there as well so so construction of that Trails we're looking at nearly a mile and a half it's almost a little bit closer to 2 miles in general again these trails are going to be just nature trails be mowed approximately two times per month um um some of these some of this areas in there is very steep um and so the trail does go along the backside of these properties they will be you know just kind of depending on that developer and the new homeowners of those properties that trail will be likely be visible from those homeowners or be maybe be guided by some trees as well that might be in the backyards of those of those homes so just be aware that of that trail that's going to be along the top Ridge there that we are limited on space from the back of the property line to the crust of that Hill that's going to have some major slope there um because of that slope there isn't no trails that we proposing down you know that that main Corridor or I guess that that Top Line there isn't nothing going down the middle of that just because of how steep that is we do go along the outer Ridges of that um this it will wind back and forth when we do have to go down the hill on on either end the north or south end so um but along Stillwater Boulevard that trail will be um just a nature trail uh future potential of that would be asphalt with the combination with the county working with that um uh with Connor uh with the with their surveying groups as well to make that as part of that larger uh Gateway Trail through there maybe in the future but again right now that would be a combination of just a nature trail along stillw Water Boulevard that would Connect into northstar's asphalt Trail on the far east side of that development construction of this Trail would include uh park benches so we'll have uh approximately three uh potentially up to four park benches if we feel we need another one um one on the star uh closest or up near the homes would be approximately near the entrance one of the entrances to the park uh just to view have a great view over over that Hill um down to the down to the lower uh portion of the of the water on that end the one on the far south would look towards Stillwater Boulevard over our storm water Pond just a kind of another relaxing area there not a whole lot going on there but just kind of a large open area that we thought would be U very visible um just as an open area again um on that South End inside the park we proposing one at the very um tip or the uh the circle Edge there on the south again that would open up widely to the whole lake again there's some slight trees in there that we don't we wouldn't mow down or we' leave as nature so um will be restricted a little bit there but will be a great um asset to that as well um there signage we are looking at two locations one uh or Park sign we're looking at the one location that would be in the development in between the two properties uh that is our one access in there uh we're looking to put the park sign up there as far as picnic tables we are proposing two one on the North End that was that area has been proposed uh while walking through there it's just a lot lot of Buckthorn in that area there's no um Big Trees um more invasive trees in that area than anything so looking at maybe clearing out a smaller area maybe about the size of what you see in front of us here um and just to set a table in there just kind of a a nature area that you can still see uh down to the lake a little bit it'll be covered with a little bit of trees but as well as seeing over to that other trail to the further to the east um the one to the South would be near our bench area there again again an area that just there's kind of a little crust of a hill there with some large oak trees so we're looking to have a lot of canopy there as well as putting a um with that bench and that table there just kind of an open area to to view to the South as well as the west back to the lake just kind of a a really nice area once we clear a lot of the Buckthorn and um um the brush that's in that area so uh the final two things we're looking at is just kind of a kiosk area just to uh keep um users aware of where the trails are and we're looking at two entrance points to the uh to the park for uh those kiosk and again our kiosk areas are just very similar to the uh the signs that we'd have at De matraville we have at Reed Park as well as Sunfish Lake just a area map of what our trails are and where uh potential landmarks are as well the next picture here again just shows that Trail in red uh but just um you if you kind of view the backside of those properties again we just want to make a uh the commission aware that this Trail will be on the back side of those properties so um and again it's a nature trail um it's not going to be asphalt Trail or anything like that again you can see there are trees in the back yards there not sure if those are proposed by the developer or just a suggestion from the developer to the new homeowner of potential trees in that area so um trees along uh the storm water Pond are being proposed by the developer and are likely part of that landscape plan that they do need to uh follow so um we will have that border um from that trail to that storm water pond with those so again just another uh picture with that one and the next one of where that trail will rely on based on the backside of those properties from this picture again you can see that the entrance will come entrance to that Park will be directly off of one of the main streets at the T intersection where we plan to put that Park uh Park entrance sign with that I'll take any questions um regarding the construction of the new shilkin park Adam could you go back to the previous drawing the first one with the red outline um Yes red outline yeah so this is still out a road on the South Side okay so is the barn there in this proposal I don't if you can see my or not let me D my yeah so this is the barn area they have is an old concept plan where they had like a pool house and things like this but this would be that Barn area um where the barn currently is okay thank you I was just trying to get my bearings question for you Adam um is there going to be parking in the development or the option for uh parking on the road for people visiting the park so right now there is no parking uh associated with this park uh the land Dedication that was given was land only um so as the I don't have a picture of that side of the development but as um on the north side of the development there is a an area where there is no proposed houses being built um which is another the next future access to the park um there may be potential of roadside parking there but not not an extreme amount okay um would you consider uh maybe adding like some bike racks or something like that uh to provide a way for people a little bit further to access the park that's a potential um it wouldn't be any more further construction than a regular bench right um proposal to that would be near the entrances either one uh either the North side or the main entrance or the South side of that um for for something like that okay thanks but looking at the picture um well actually before I get into that do we envision is this a community park or is this a neighborhood park do we do we know it's going to be more I I think we're going to have to categorize it more as Nature Park uh we because a neighborhood park again would it be including Pavilions and extracurricular activities outside of that on this one we wouldn't be able to construct any of that right so um I forgot what that that is what we have for our classifications now with the is is a nature or natural natural resource um correct okay so then I guess back to the parking question um right at this visual we're looking at now and that drainage Pond is um and where that trail goes on the east side of it is there any possibility of getting parking even if it's three or four or five spots um I think they would have to come in we'd have to figure out how to use um or or get easement access for the barn where where people are going to come in to use the barn but I'm wondering if there is city- owned land where we could have some parking spots there so there is no City so city owns the storm water Pond but this is all owned by the development so there is no access off a Stillwater Boulevard into this property oh there isn't all right no nope um so any potential future um uh parking by the developer would be um next to that barn and would have to be um some type of I was under the impression there was drive into that Barn area so I guess maybe that's just what they're doing now and I Yep they're using that as an access I assume that okay um okay well then I'm then we're I'm back with Ellen on the the at least parking RS maybe down there um I do um I'm impressed that you'd be able to put that much Trail in there just because of the the kind of the steepness of it so that's great yeah the future owner of the property did do some maintenance and did um do some mowing down through there before um and so some of those trails are uh a little bit more identified uh history like they did mow down through here and access into here and mowed some of this lower ground uh maybe for some agricultural round bales or something I'm not sure but or just to clean it up but some of the stuff was previously mowed as well as an access Trail down uh into here as well so um like I said some of those things were uh previously there and it's just going to take um like we will use a it's called a feon mower it's a mulching mower that'll grind up um similar to what they're doing at Sunfish Lake to make the trails and um and take care of Buckthorn there we will be utilizing one of those to make these Trails just because of the the substance that's in there uh the B of trees as well as that buck th so go ahead you're going the uh it looks like on that North Point um there's a line going into that it was uh is that where you're referencing where they haven't built yet and that'll be a second access point correct anticipate he's referencing this North section right here um as you if you look at the the Orange Line outline there yeah that will be like the very edge of a street there will be a a trail actually a sidewalk up on top there so future potential we could put a a bench up there you know to overlook this whole valley here but that will be a second potential um uh entrance into that Park but it will it'll likely have to zigzag up because it will be a steep I jump in right here right now yeah so I walk this entire park over the weekend and that area that's north of the park mhm the developer has it um where they've gone through and made where they think they're going to put like the streets and looks like a circle back in there so my question it might be more for planning is is that acreage of development um included in the amount of acreage that we got for the park they paid Park dedication for both additions for both additions correct okay that's that's that's good the other little thing to uh note is at the end of that street that street that runs along the park there it just shows an ending well they didn't do that they put a circle in there a fairly large circle's been paved in there plenty of room for parking in other words now that might go away when they do the rest of the development but for right now it's a fairly large Circle that's right there at that in that's where I park yeah so that's a common occurrence when in new developments especially when they have phases of developments when they go first phase second phase third phase things like that is they'll end streets like that and a lot of times that's for maintenance uh or for turn around for uh construction as well so otherwise if they cut it off and they leave it you know gravel or sand or whatever everybody thinks it's a trail they get stuck they get you know but uh that's where all of our utilities end as well so yeah and you guys have walked these my concern again is that slope uh again I did not go exactly where this was going so they believe they don't need stairs or anything like that they can find an access point yeah our biggest uh areas uh will be this South End here uh again this will have to probably zigzag back and forth several times to get up to the back up to our Trail um as well as um you know this is fairly flat here but that future development and that that area out just depending on how this all gets laid out up here uh we'll likely have to uh zigzag back and forth to get back out of there as well yeah there's although it's one of those you could be Daniel Boone and find potentially the right way to get up there but okay um then if we connected to the west to Sunfish Lake I know that hasn't been looked at that would be on that little Loop where the picnic table is right yeah um that came up in discussion question um through our 2525 um work plan is maybe look at some potential um options of connecting that to Sunfish Lake if if if that would occur it would potentially be through this corner lot here uh we have a potential Trail coming in from the north here um while a lot of this ties together it could potentially go through the back side of there as well and the last thing is it's a very it's even better than I thought I thought there wasn't going to be any room and there's a lot of nice uh trees I could see all the wonderful things for our invasive species work there's a lot of Buckthorn out there um but it is a very nice addition to the park system in my believe that's all I got okay Adam it looks like on the the West Side here that two Trails go down to the lake yeah so um we are incorporating those in there again um there's no there's no trees that will be removed uh in doing so if anything they're invasive trees and we're just looking for another just a little Outlet down to the lake that Lake's going to rise and lower really quickly it's going to depend on the day so they're just going to be quick short little Avenues down there to have a good look good access to or good view of the lake so likely you know what looks like a long route right there is probably less than 25 30 ft okay so so we're we're not very far off the high level of the water from the trail and so that those um those stubs off the trail are just dependent on water height right so okay thank you there questions comments I I do have one more question um and maybe I can ask you when you come up to speak also um people are aware of this and they're parking along that street in front of those residences do you get complaints about people who you know like yesterday I was at Homestead Park and the streets are narrow and I assume they're they're not going to be much wider here than they are over by the homestead Park do you get complaints from because it's a beautiful Park I assume there's going to be a lot of people hiking once a I would hope so yeah I would hope so is that an issue at all it it comes and goes just really dependent on you know amenities and you know use of the park right so you know of course Pebble Park we add a lot of things to it what's the first thing we talk about is next thing the park work plan is parking right so it all comes of like the use of the parks the you know what's there what's being used what's been upgraded things like that so um I would probably agree like you know it will be a new fat people will be interested in seeing it right away and things like that um I'm not sure there'll probably be one side of no parking on that street just because of you know policy and how um uh things have gone already but um so likely parking will only be allowed on one side of the street in that area so um I'm I'm sure we will hear for a m so okay yep thank you yeah I I tend to agree I think that's going to be a concern I the the way those houses sit I'm just thinking of it that the driveways are fairly close together as far as like the distance between them you get a one car two cars between them um that's why one of the reasons I was asking about that south end but if people just have to park nicely guess that's I guess I have one other comment um Adam thanks for bringing up the fact that that trail is close to the back of those houses I feel like um when I see that it doesn't strike me as out of the ordinary I feel like there's a lot of places where like ELO has done something similar like eastn Village North Park it's too bad commissioner elm's not here because the Trail's right there you know um so thanks for pointing that out but I guess I don't have any major concerns with it yeah and we have it's it when you know I just bring it up because it it it it is going to be in the backyards and we do have trails in the other backyards as far as you know look at stonate Park when we did those it was a Park trails that weren't used for a long time and then when they did we did upgrade them we did have a lot of conversation about with with the homeowners next door about you know upgrading those and then being in their backyards and the use of them so um yeah it's just kind of more prevent letting everybody know that it's going to be there the other thing is that axis road to the north is complete so you can go into the other subdivision that's just north of there that's all complete too so he has referencing this road um right there right here yep this does connect in 39th Trail whatever that is that North Star is Legacy at North Legacy okay well we can uh take a motion I move to recommend to the city council the proposed Trail and purchase by City staff to furnish the newly constructed schulen Park have a second I'll second we have a second so discussion on this motion I'll just say I'm glad to see I thought we were done with uh this for the year um as far as the the conversation on it but I'm glad to see it back on the agenda and uh and the the plan again that the I I was excited to see the amount of trails that we think can go in there and I'm with Hank I that is a it's a unique Little Slice that overlooks the the lake and I think it'll be a good addition to the park system so I generally like this plan Sands save the parking situation but that is what it is any other discussion should I call the call the question for um the recommendation to city council uh the proposed Trail and purchases by City staff to furnish the newly constructed Park is the motion all those in favor I any Nays no nay that passes unanimously we're on to Homestead Park next agenda item okay thank you um as we continue to review our Parks um we going in a little different avenue as far as the parks that we have done in the past but again um one of the major things that we do when we review these Parks just again to become familiar with the parks that we have uh but also just to bring up those discussions of you know what do these Parks need what is our future maintenance with them what are um what do we as what what do we got to put in our CIP or work plan in the future if anything or or just to become more more comfortable more um a knowledgeable of what what we have available for Parks as well so Homestead Park um this is about 2 and a half uh a little over two and a half acres um next to Homestead HOA uh this park is set up as a as far as our Parks master plan a nature reserve Park um again mainly consisting of a pollination Park as well as um in 2020 three we added a sign uh to the park just to indicate that it was Homestead Park so um this park was approved and developed in 1997 at the time Council approved the resolution to place the Outlets of the subdivision into a conservation easement um with a trust um that changed in 2015 or that stayed until 2015 when um the the city adopted a b friendly or a pollination uh friendly resolution so at that time the the HOA came forward and um presented a plan to city council as well as the Parks Commission to make this a pollination friendly um out lot or Park um at that time the city granted to the HOA about $25,000 to for seating and maintenance of that of that Park so um we've asked the Commissioners to take a just a if they had time to take a quick walk that area just to uh become more familiar with it staff isn't recommending any changes or future upgrades to this park uh if anything um maybe some you know if anything addition additional to the pollination or um you know different seatings or something like that just to increase the pollination to keep that nature um uh that Nature Park going so um with that I open that up for um I will show a couple more slides here as far as um this comes from our Parks master plan uh just the proposed Trails or not proposed the trails that are there that do go on Outlaws um c and a uh that the um HOA uh maintains through there throughout that throughout that Park so again our the city's land is outlined in black there only um the rest of that is private again uh last year uh installed this sign um part of a conservation eement and the amount of money that was granted back in 10 years ago with that I'll open it up for discussion um or any questions you might have just to clarify with that can you go back to that last just the the uh picture of the sign there y so is this sign actually on HOA no this is um directly right on the corner right off Lake Elmo up on the um city park so it's um grab laser here oh I'm sorry I was yeah I was looking at the orientation yeah right right in this area right here yeah okay okay I I apologize I was confused but you could put a shelter there right could not could not people have to stand out in the so um at the current time we could not unless there's agreement between the trust the owners which would be the the developer or and the city so um a lot would have to go into place in order to make something like that happen it's not pickle ball so um I guess what I'd like to do is Adam if you would be able to we probably have uh additional questions for you but I'm wondering if we can take uh public comment now um I know we have somebody here to speak on this I'd like to hear you waited patiently thank you so much if you could just uh state your name and your address my name is Eloise Mackie and I live at 11364 14th Street North that's in the homestead neighborhood that neighborhood is is quite small it's 18 homes and the HOA as noted has this outlot sea adjacent to the park we also have another open space area that we turned into a pollinator Prairie this is in po it's a prairie um and that's kind of on the other side of our street which is also owned by the the HOA so um I just had sort of a comment or looking for some direction from the commission um there are a number of areas because it's a you know it's a connected ecosystem uh that uh reasons we have to cooperate to maintain it I mean one is Burns uh we're due for a burn this year and we'd like to go ahead with that but we have to coordinate with the city somehow uh also um we found a need to do uh spraying and invasive removal even though it's been uh an established area for a number of years we have had problems some disturbances in the in the uh terrain that's brought in invasives or just invasives coming in uh that needed to be removed so that's to be done on both Parcels um also the kind of the volunteer saplings like uh Buckthorn we have honey locust seating in there we have a box elder um sometimes Maples and a lot of Siberian elm particularly on our side but also increasingly on the park side side so I was uh had quite oops I'm sorry quite a few discussions initially with um uh Marty powers and Public Works about how do we do this um I understand uh there are things we can just volunteer to do uh and we're willing to do some of that but not all of it because it's costly and some things I don't think really we can take full responsibility for for example the burn we can't really give anyone approval to do a burn on the city park um so there are we need some I think ways or a plan that we can agree to at least on a few fundamental things to keep the area robust and to preserve the nature of the area going forward where we understand and know what we can expect the city to do you know in the way of cooperation not just as volunteering to do things um and then and waiting to see uh if those things are acceptable so that's what I'm here to kind of present is our desire from the HOA to understand that better so we can plan so it doesn't just turn into a a Buckthorn field ultimately thank you okay thank you I appreciate that and I guess I'll just quickly state that working with City staff on this is um is definitely the direct route and I realize it's sometimes slower or a little bit nuanced as far as getting this done this is a unique circumstance uh well it's actually not entirely unique but having the HOA and City Lots next to each other it does present some challenges so I appreciate your input yeah but one of the areas you're going to get run into is there other developments in the city like Wildflower who has a very large right nature area and they would be more than excited to hear that we were supporting this nature area because they would come on knocking on your door looking for support for Burns and same things so um just got to keep that in mind yeah so no uh just with conservation easements I just want the commission to understand that each one's a little bit different you know and some of those things are really laid out in that in that in that um that easement or what's signed by all by all parties CU like like uh Hank had mentioned like there you know our contributions to the Wildflower one is a lot different than our contributions to Homestead and Homestead is different from what we have from Sunfish Lake Park as well as Bridge Park right so each one has their own uh you know descriptions and possibilities and things like that so just keep those in mind and that's why we have these discussions um you know it's only been you know since 2015 it's only been 10 years but with a brand new parks commission and uh new members and people leaving and things like that it's always good as a reference to to uh bring these things back so things don't get lost either I guess I ask you directly Adam what's your impression on uh feasibility of a path what we're looking at right now um of incorporating a path on that site uh so right now there is a mowe path in there that's done by the HOA so the HOA is responsible for maintenance of that out lot um it's part of that agreement so they do mow that in the last year um that wasn't mowed fully all the way around maybe initially out of the gate but uh there's no requirements of how many times it has to be mowed or the um you know the desire of mowing things like that so um in the past it has been mowed on the city Side uh to incorporate into those other two other parsel to the South so there is a PA a mode path on the city staff or city city lot yep there yep okay so the brown areas was a mod path uh from the arrows down straight through and then around the top as well yes um the HOA is not paid to mow that path one of the land owners in the neighborhood took the initiative he's paid to mow that I did tell him he should coordinate with the city and get permission I don't know if he did that or not but he started to mow that we when we had it before the sign went up we mow those paths when the sign went up we stopped mowing the paths on the park and we continue to just do the ones on outl SE um but now this gentleman has paid he's connected them and I have no idea uh if he's actually got approval to do that or not but now it does look just like you're showing there okay so a hypothetical let's say there's a bunch of third graders at the new school at the corner studying prairies would they be allowed to hike all these Trails both the city land and the HOA land or would they be restricted to the city land they'd be restricted to the city land as the ones to the South are private thank you just as a note for like Wildflower the trails there are city trails so it goes back to what Adam's talking about they're all a little different yeah yeah yeah the spot is in particular to to Hank's point it it becomes really difficult you you you wouldn't put a sign up in the middle of that field to say don't go any further this is HOA um and it is a small such a small lot that it doesn't you know you wouldn't presumably come to just do a circle around that um if you live in the if you live in the neighborhood absolutely yeah yeah I guess what I'm articulating is I'm not super in favor this is for discussion maybe but I'm not not super in favor of doing a whole lot with it uh you know strengthening Trails or you know placing benches that sort of thing but sorry I got to Carri it away with my comments I'll save them for discussion I walked as I said there yesterday and I didn't bring my map with me and so I was walking all over the HOA I I parked in uh on the east side there on that curved Street um because I didn't feel I should be Parking on 14th Street right in there it just felt so narrow mhm um so I was just looking at my phone for the park which does not actually have the outlines it has a little sign for the park um and I was looking for markings along the the private properties you know and and I I saw a few houses with some Stakes that weren't really marked very well so it's not I think the general public would not have no idea where the park begins and ends I agree I agree I went over there and for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to get in the park and and it doesn't come up on Google by the way so it doesn't does it no and so I was like how do you even get I know I've seen the sign for the park but then I couldn't figure out how to get in the park some Maps show the whole thing Park which raised a lot of for us initially when the sign went in and we had asked for some kind of sign to put at the entrance you can see that little circle there I guess kind of on the east side noreast side just to say here's the park and here's a little map of the park so that people would understand the boundary we have purchased a trespassing size and we have gotten permission from a PL trust to put up a limited number of signes but we haven't seen a lot visitors and aesthetically it's not that great to have sign up so we're just waiting to see um you know becomes a nuisance that we post but we would have liked to sign that kind of direct and we thought actually would be very nice to have something which you know we were even willing to entertain doing something like a QR code on the sign or a little sign where we could put some history you know online a pollinator this was made a pollinator something like that those are um I guess Adam to to the question future changes that my my take on this is I would I think I would prefer it to legally be either changed to HOA owned or vice versa the HOA property would somehow become city property so this could any further development I think is going to incur headaches for people on the size of this especially on the size of this lot like I said that uh so that's that's my take um whether we bequeath it to the HOA with some Financial or or some something I don't know but yeah I was goingon to ask the same question um do you know does the city have a policy for you know land disposition so in records that I know I don't know if we've ever uh sold property back as far as Parkland sold it back to HOAs in Li of funds or anything like that so um not that I'm aware of okay unless this might be a good question for the City attorney if the development used that land to satisfy their park dedication requirements I don't know if there's any requirement that that stay at Park yeah interesting well yeah I mean to that point it in general it I guess it's the development isn't huge to start with so it's um not a big parcel but I think that speaks to that issue of going forward these smaller smaller twoo you know seven acre lots and so forth don't don't do us too much good and that's been a concern that city council has voiced as well I'm not necessarily sure where I stand but yeah it's out there so does does anybody else have recommendations for future changes no I but I would just make it clear at least from my point of view just because we had comments and questions and these things doesn't mean that we don't encourage the HOA to keep talking to the city you can talk to uh at them anytime uh with proposals or with anything else so don't because we're just asking questions at least for me I don't know how everybody else I'm still it's a it's a good I'm in favor of the pollinators and I'm in favor of maintaining Prairie lands I think it's just going to be trying to work this out together that's all I got not a lot to provide no that's uh I know that's one of the questions we' brought up in the past is just again the small acre parks and it's good to check their their usefulness and what they can add to our to our overall purpose the next agenda item is communication do you have communications for us so uh today City uh City staff did remove the pickle ball and Tennis Nets with a proposal of rain uh coming tonight as well as a cold weather the rest of the week um again as noted the porta potties have been removed from a majority of our Parks besides our our our normal winter Parks um with that staff has continued to do some uh tree and brush removal in our Parks as well as Emerald ashor removal to so going forward okay thank you do you have any Communications I do not okay Communications from Commissioners have there been any um applications for our loan spot or open spot not that I know I'm aware of keep recruiting D um well if there are no further Communications we could take a motion to adjourn so moved is there a second second all those in favor I the meeting is adjourned e e e e e