done that for a very long time.>> Good evening. I'm going to call this evening's uh city council meeting on uhthe 16th of December to order at 7 p.m. Please stand with me for the pledge ofallegiance to the flag of the United States ofAmerica and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. for years.>> So, we have what the agenda to approve as my computer's still uploadingslowly? Um, everybody good with the agenda thisevening? If they are, then I'll entertain amotion to approve the agenda. >> So, moved.Is there a second? >> Second.>> All those in agreement to approve the agenda as presented, please signify bysaying I. >> I.>> I. >> Agenda is hereby approved.We do have a presentation this evening. The uh JCS like to come to the podiumand make their presentation. >> Good evening. Uh I'm Stacy from the LakeElmo J or JCI Lake Elmo. I'm the president this year and we wanted tothank the city of Lake Elmo for all of their support uh over the past 50 yearswith the JCI Lake Elmo. Unfortunately um many of volunteer organizations are umhaving a hard time staying afloat um and keeping members and ours is none notexempt. Uh we will be closing our chapter as of December 31st of thisyear. Um but we would like to present a donation to the city of Lake Elmo. Andif Emily would like to say a few words. Hi mayor. Hi everybody. Um I'm EmilyCarlson. I am the gambling manager for the Lake Elmo JC's. Like President Stacysaid, um unfortunately we are closing our doors as of the end of this calendaryear, but we wanted to make sure we did our final annual donation um to thecity. Again, we thank you all so much and the city so much for all of yoursupport, your dedication, um and working with us, having a great workingrelationship with us for over 50 years. Um our gambling operation at TwinpointTavern was opened back in 1987. Um and we officially ended our part ofthat um at the end of April this year. Um and so we are finishing up ourremaining donations to various organizations um here locally. We'reproud that we have kept all of the money that we have made through the gamblingoperation um here in the Lake Elmo area, the uh St. Croy River Valley area. So,we have a check for 30 $3,800 for the city of Lake Elmo as our final donationand a thank you. >> Great. Do you have you kept track of thedonations throughout the years? >> Um numbers pretty pretty staggeringamount I would think. >> Generally are have been over 100,000 umannually donated um locally here um to various organizations.>> That's great. Thank you very much. So, thank you again so much. We reallyappreciate >> get a picture with the council with you.>> That would be wonderful. >> A big check.>> That' be great. >> Sure. Thanks so much. [Applause]Do we have anybody write anything down for public comments and inquiries?>> No. Okay. >> All right.We had uh which minutes did we have?>> There are no minutes at this time. >> So E is not approved.All right. In the consent agenda this evening, we have accept donation fromLake Elmo JC's, approve payments and dispersements,reappoint parks commissioner, liquor license renewals,approve the EDA work plan, 2026 personnel policy changes that wewent through workshop last week. uh paygrade realignment for the publicworks positions. Approve the MPCA grant agreement forwell two water treatment plant operations and maintenance.Approve pay request number three for the I94 lift station force main replacementproject. Approve pay request number six for the 2025 street improvements.Approved security reduction for Milestone daycare center. Approvesecurity reduction for Northstar first edition.Approve security release for Enterprise Renaar.14 is accept quotes and award contract for test well number six.15's approve ex extended contract working hours for the trunk highway 36Lake Elmo Avenue Casaw 16 improvements. group 16 is approve resolution ofmunicipal support for the trunk highway 36 and Lake Amo Avenue improvements andSouth Fage Road. Um if everything's kosher there, thenI'll entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda.>> So moved. >> Second.>> We have a motion by Council Member Holtz and a second by Council Member Hearn toapprove the council or the consent agenda as approved. All those in favor,please signify by saying I. >> I. I>> consent agenda is approved. In our regular agenda, the number thefirst uh regular agenda item is park use policy revisionswith uh interim public works director Mr. Swenopole presenting.>> Thank you, mayor and councel. Here today with uh Hank. He's our chair on the onthe board as well for the commission. um brought him along to answer anyquestions that they had during the during our review of this policy uh overthe summer. So, part of our work plan for 2025 was to review our park usepolicy because of a number of complaints and issues that we had throughout ourour uh rentals asset rentals uh for the city. So again, um throughout thesummer, uh we worked with the parks commission to um clarify some proceduresrelated to the rental of our assets, including our athletic courts, ballfields, and park shelters. Staff worked with the commissioners and discussed ourcurrent usage of charge, identified areas where the policy could be moretransparent and userfriendly, and discussed potential up updates to ensureconsistency, fairness, and efficient management of these uh communityamenities. Uh the feedback provided during these meetings provided revisionsand intended to enhance the public access while still supporting andengaging um organized activities. So the issue before the council tonightis would the council like to accept the proposed changes to the park use policy?Our park use policy was um and hasn't been changed since 2019. So that's whywe put in the work plan for this year to maybe make some upgrades especially withour improvements to our not only our ball fields including Reed Reed Park butalso uh our pickleball courts in the last couple years.Uh our current use policy which currently sits right now does again lookat our fields, our courts and our shelters and the and the and our currentstructure is rated as our ball fields. Um it when they start out the seasonit's $500 for the season or $50 a day. Again, at the end of the year, that'stotally refundable. All the money is given back. Our shelters is $50 a day,$100 a day for a non-resident. Again, that's all refundable. Umback to the the person who rented it. Um a lot of times staff would go outafterwards just to make sure the garbage was cleaned up, nothing was damaged. Ifthat was the if they came back with the okay, that money was refundable.>> Lions Park shelter, a lot of times that was used by our baseball clubs oranybody that rented it for concession stands. Again, that was um given out asa refundable um funds uh initially paid at the beginning of the year. Ourcourts, they were reservable many times in our pickleball courts down at LionsPark when those were um usable at the time. Again, $500 for the season. A lotof times those are reserved, all four of them. Again, at the end of the year,those were refunded 100%. Uh, field lights was were was the onlyitem that we actually um collected money from throughout those years. Um, mainlythrough our baseball clubs that used Lions Park and VFW. It was initiallycharged $150 for the season. So, throughout the year, um, $300 that wecollected. Um our proposals uh that are lineoutlined in our uh that are outlined in this would be our ball field rentals. SoVFW and Lions uh I did talk with our baseball club and our associations inregards to this and they provided the summer and fall type schedule. So oursummer schedule would run April to July. So that'd be one season and then ourfall season would be that August through October. Um individual rentals of $50 aday or $500 for the season. So really no change in that for those baseball clubs.But again, the only big change in that is having that funds non-refundable. Umour fees for our baseball fields are going up, including our red ball, ourirrigation, our mowing, and our our weed control and that. So some of those fundswill go back to just uh in our general fund potentially to offset some of thosecosts. Our outside ball fields, includingPebble, Reed, Deontville, and Tablin, those are all reservable as well. Thosewill be reduced, but at $20 a day, $250 for the season. We do get most of ourreservations from Pebble Deontraville and um Reed uh for those parks. Tavlinuh every so often, not very often. So, um Reed is probably going to be yourbiggest uh asset in that for continuing reserve in both those seasons, summerand fall. uh the change in the field lights, theonly change in that was um the increase from 150 to 250 for the season. Um weare seeing an increase in not only our uh XL electrical bill, but as our lightsare getting older, we do see our contractor out there fixing those almosttwo to three times a season. You know, water getting in those boxes. We haverodents in there um not cheap.our park and shelter pavilion. Uh changes to that. Um we we still want todo the half uh six hour day or six or 12 hour a full change that half a half dayor a full day. Uh those being limited to six or 12 hours. Uh $50 for a half dayand $100 for a full day. Again, uh we're looking at a non-refundable fee on thatplus a $100 security deposit. That the security deposit would go back againafter staff would look at that um and do minimal cleanup. Right. So, we looked atthat basis of we're still going out there anyway to collect the garbage andstuff from these events. Um, those would offset some of those costs as well asour electrical costs and some of our pavilions for thatevents that are are in conjunction with our ball field uh with our concessionstand. Um, we looked at the kind of the same price that full and half day costwould be $50 for the half day, $100 for the full day of reservations. Again,non-refundable. go back and get um um the security deposit would go back tothem. I think this with the concession stand that has been maybe our only otherfee that uh we may have had to go back after large events and do additionalcleanup. Uh in my in my term here, I think we maybe kept a couple hundreddollars off of um off of deposits because of we ended up cleaning it upafter a large event. So, um I don't foresee a big issue there, but uh as asecurity it's there. >> Moving on to the larger topic, ourcourts. And that's kind of where we maybe started this conversation of ofthis is um this is a copy of our of our old reservation policy. And I blankedout some of the names um just to just so we're not like calling people out oranything like that. But if you do look at like some of these um likereservation green, so April to October, they were reserving it daily from 8:00till 10. And now at the bottom it does say reservations for all of our courts.And that's one of the big changes that we wanted to make. So uh many of ourcomplaints came in from the community saying I show up there well this thisorganization has all of our courts reserved. I I don't have the ability toget on there. Right? So, but if you look through there, I mean, you you'd say,"Okay, I guess you have to go on Wednesdays and Fridays throughout theday because that's probably their best day to get to it, right?" So, I I thinkour policy or our adaptations to it uh do kind of help in some of thesesituations of letting not only citizens um from Lake Elmo, but um have open haveopen play there at any time. Um, so one of our biggest moves is atour pickleball courts is uh reserving the courts would be limited to 50% ateach site. So we do have uh reservable courts at Lions, Pebble, and Tablin. Soat our biggest court is at uh Pebble. So it would reduce the reservable courtsdown to three versus all six of them. So that would leave three of those courtsopen for open play for anybody to show up, rotate through like normal. thoseother three reservable courts would be available for those clubs or thoseorganizations that like to would would like to have those um reserved forthemselves for their clubs for those three hours. Um we do have that we neverchanged the hour limit. The hour limit's still at three hours. If an individualfamily wanted to reserve, they could reserve one of those three reservablecourts for $20 for that three hours, which is pretty inexpensive. uh localindoor places right now costs anywhere from $15 per hour up to $38 per hour forthose early mornings or late evenings. So, um again, those are air conditioningand inside events a little nicer, but um on a nice day, these are veryattractable, too. Um again, just to reiterate, the re uh thegroups can reserve multiple courts of the reservable courts. So, it wouldn'tbe all six of them. would just be those three courts are reserved are marked asreservable and those would be the three that are reservable. Once they're full,the other three are just open for open play. Um the only thing I didn't include in inthe slideshow was our um volleyball courts. We are looking to include that.That is in your packet as well to include that in as a reservation uh as$20 for fee for those. So again, take any question that you have, butotherwise we're looking to um propose that starting in January.>> So we've always had a cost for reserving courtsand has that cost been re that reservation been refundable. Is now itdoesn't look like it's reservations are non-refundable?>> Correct. So in the past all reservations were refundable. Yep. So, and again oncourts, uh, we didn't see a whole I mean, you're not going to see a wholelot of damage, uh, to that, but our big biggest expense forthcoming for us isthat resurfacing of those. So, every 5 to seven years, you're looking atresurfacing um, and you can look at that as one tennis court uh, being about$7,000. So, Pebble, you're looking at $21,000, and we're we're already in yeargoing on year three of that court. So, in about three years, we'll be lookingat possibly a $21,000 expense. Now, are those expenses allocated orbudgeted for with our taxes or is it do or do weare we banking on the fact that we're getting the non-refundable to cover thatcost? >> So, again, um these fees are likelygoing back into the general fund. Um our current, so when we go back to resurfacethese, it's likely going to be a CIP project that'll likely come out of thepark dedication funds. So that's where that fund those will come throughbecause this will be a project because both those courts will line up in thesame years. So you're going to have potentially a 30,000 30 to $40,000resurfacing uh action going on there. >> Got it.>> Council member Holtz, >> an initial question and$500 per season for the court. That is for a three-hour reservation thathappens for one day of the week. that would constitute a season.>> So yeah, so um that'd be the hundred. So if I reserve that court for the week,that'd be a $100. So that's still fairly cheap for seven days, right? So if youlook at 30 weeks from that April till October being that 30 weeks you uh aclub could say, "Okay, I'll I'll spend $3,000technically, right, for 30 weeks for seven days a week to rent it from 8 to10." And on their end, they're already paying this. They're just getting itback at the end of the day. So, the amounts are exactly the same for those.>> So, uh again, th that would not be refundable.>> Correct. Yeah. >> But as in now that front-end deposit isstill the same amount, $500 per season for the courts. So, they already wereupping this money before. They just were used to getting it back.>> Yeah. Correct. Yep. And then uh is it still a single method for allthat's using the website for >> Yeah. So the reservation form that Ishowed you before uh was our previous action. So now we have converted thatover to our website. So you will be able to select um which you know field orcourt would you like and then um uh put that deposit down>> and they're easily that updates pretty quickly in terms of someone made areservation. How quickly does that show up for people to see?>> Last year, Julie did that. Um, and she's not here to speak about that, but withour new website, I think we're still in question about how how there.>> Yeah, we were actually waiting until tonight's discussion to finalize usingthe new facilities module based on the um changes. So, we will be kind ofimplementing it and building it based on tonight's discussion. But it should beinstant. Folks should be able to go on there, see when it's available.Self-service. Yeah. Right. >> Gotcha. Those are just my initialquestions, but I'll defer to others. >> Thank you.>> Any other questions? So if you excuse So if you wanted torent the pickle ball courts for the entire season,you know, at let's just pick Pebble Park >> and I wanted to rent three of them forthe entire season, what would it cost for a club?>> So um for instance, for on if we go back to that yellow club that wanted it from8 to 10 Monday through Friday >> and they wanted to start April 1st allthe way to October 31st for 30 weeks, that would cost them $3,000.>> Okay. Thank you. Just one thing to note, we've askedstaff to not wait six years to relook at this policy. So, obviously, since ithadn't been changed or looked at in that long of time, that's why we decided thatsome of these changes needed to be made. And I guess then for either of you, dowe know what the similar levels are for reservation cost nearby whether it'sOakdale or Stillwater or Woodbury? >> Yeah, we did look at that. They range. Imean, we do have those open courts as well. a number of wood berries is likejust open play. And I think one of the one of our groups that I spoke with hereis, you know, their concept has kind of ventured outfrom other other communities and they've adapted to it, right? So it's kind ofmore like a a social group, right? And so they're not looking to, you know,spend money or make money off their groups, but uh uh Woodberry does have anumber of them that are free, but also has some that are reservable as well. alot more expensive than what you would say at $20. Um they're more at like that$15 for an hour. So what I remember from the data is that in almost all the caseswe were if not the lowest pretty much in the low rankings of these. So none ofthem are at the high end. >> And it's reasonable to presume in termsof our sports for baseball and soccer and football.This is not a new concept for them because they're paying for fields in theother cities anyways that's non-refundable. So this is not this isnot foreign for them. >> Correct.>> All right. Thank you. >> And if they wanted to take their chanceon somebody not having a reservation, the courts are open.>> Courts would be open. So I think that was one of the conversations I had withour social groups is like if who are used to reserving all six courts andjust being able to come and play is like well take the chance of just going thereto play on the non-reservable courts and if and if your club was always rentingit anyway likely no one else is going to come there eight.>> Got it. >> Probably open to all of them anyway.>> All right. >> Okay. Well entertain a motion. Motion toapprove the changes to the park use policy as proposed.>> Is there a second? >> Second.>> Okay. Discussion. >> Start out.>> Yeah. Go ahead. >> I think this is a great step in theright direction. Um, you know, I'm sure there's going to be road or speed bumpsalong the way that we that we notice over the next year, but then we workthose out and we we make changes next year. I think um it's totally areasonable amount um for across for the baseball fields, for the pickle ballcourts, these high use items um that are kind of above and beyond what thetaxpayers are paying for with their taxpayer money. You know, it's these areorganizations, these are clubs, they're looking to use it at a higher use thankind of the typical individual. So, I think it's very fair um that we do havea little bit of a fee and I think they'll I think it is a win-win. youknow, they're looking to have assurance that they're going to have a place toplace. So, this allows assurance for them as well with these reservations.So, I think it's great. I'm sure there's going to be things that we need tomodify and change. Um, but I think it's absolutely a step in the rightdirection. clarifying question because I have ahypothesis what this is, but in looking at the priorities and agree with allwhat council member Hearn said, priority one for the groups is the city of LakeElmo. >> Correct.>> We're not talking about staff going out on Fridays to book pickle ball.>> No, we're not. We're not. It's our thousund 100 year anniversary. It'sitems like that that where we want to reserve the the uh shelter or the>> city sponsors. Yeah. But if staff wanted to go out on a Friday,>> we'd fill out a reservation form. >> Okay.>> I thank you. And I I would agree again with with council member Hearn said andespecially with our the amount of maintenance costs that we have and thefact that there is not a direct correlation between it being used byonly residents who are paying taxes versus not. And this isThis is not 1960 anymore where it's very affordable to have facilities that areused at a moderate rate. Our facilities are used at a very high amount and we dohave a need to make sure that uh we're aligning the needs based upon variousrevenue sources. Now, I understand it's going into a general budget, but as theyears come forward, we are probably going to have a conversation as to howto allocate that in certain ways. So, it might be this going forfertilizer. It might be that's going to pay the water bills for the irrigationfor certain sites. Um, but yeah, I I do appreciate this and I appreciate thework the parks commission did on this because I I know there are multiplediscussions on this and that's a way to get the feedback from the community andfrom our leadership on the commission. So, thank you for that. I think I did get one uh emailyesterday afternoon um disagreeing with the cost forreservation based on residents already um saying that they you know it says manytime they arrive at the courts and spend time cleaning them up, pay taxes to haveamenities like the pickle balls courts. Um,so but I agree is as long as we're keepinghalf of them open for open play and somebody wants to reserve them, thenthat's the option that they can pick. So, um, I know that there is a greatcost. I remember approving the contracts to do the resurfacing on Tavlin andPebble. It was not a small uh feat for those. So, and uh probably looking athaving to do that on the Lion's Park in the not too far future here as well,given its um its condition. So, this uh looks like acompromise of sorts. All right, I'll call the question. Allthose in favor of approving the park use policy and its revisions, please signifyby saying I. >> I.>> It's approved. >> Thank you.>> Thank you. >> Thank you.>> Thank you. >> All right. So item number two, we have2026 budget and levies hearing. >> Uh, mayor and council, I apologize. Theincorrect presentation was in your packet.Um, so if you reopen the agenda and recclick on that, it would it'll pull upthe correct file. Thank you, Jennifer, for doing that at the last second.>> Like how new? >> Pardon me.>> Like how new? >> Like two two seconds ago. >> Please give me a moment. Okay. So,>> oh yeah. Yeah. >> Correct date for the I was I wasreviewing I was like, "Oh, these are not the right numbers. This is bad." Um,okay. So, thank you, Mayor and Council. We are here uh this evening for thefinal adoption of the 2026 budget and tax levies.Our goals uh for this evening is an overview of um that 2026 budget andlevy. uh we will need to hold the truth and taxation hearing and then adopt theresolution setting that uh budget and levies. Um I will mention this is um a very highlevel quick overview. There's plenty more information um within the budgetbook um as well as uh the uh prior meetings that we have discussed thesethere's videos of those online. So high level general fund budget um we arelooking at a total budget uh expense-wise for excuse me $8,859,000 um which is a $97,000increase um from prior year. We are planning on using um $300,000of fund balance this year. Um which is a bit of a change from our priorpractices. So general fund expenditures, I like toshow this just so people get an idea of um where the money goes. And so generalgovernment cons um is administration, finance, mayor and council planningactivities. Um, public safety includes fire, our police contract as well as thebuilding inspection department and then public works is the general fund portionof the public works departments. So, just streets and parks. Um, some high level changes to thegeneral fund budget. Um, we will be adding one public works staff as well asum, we have incorporated the discussion the changes in in the wage adjustmentsthat was recently discussed. Um the plan is to add three firecaptains halfway through the year. So that's half of that impact this comingyear and then it would be double that the the next year.We have lots of projects, lots of planning projects. So comprehensiveplanning um process will be going on for the next couple of years. Um so we haveconsultants that assist with that. Um there's some planning for the um uh70some acres, we're calling it sports complex. Um and then as well as the 180acres that will be um theoretically for sale. Um we have the second year of thefinance software that comes out of the general fundand then um a market wage analysis um some increased city center expenses.We're again just trying to get a handle on the cost of having this new buildingand then it is an election year next year. So that is a significant impact aswell. again high level for expendituresum broken out by those three segments overall increase of 11.4%. Um and then I broke it down a little bitmore um within those departments um so or within those segments. So within theum general government division again, mayor and council administration,elections, finance, planning and engineering um seeing significantchanges in engineering with the new contract um with Bolton and Mink as wellas again the planning and zoning has the increase for a lot of those planningprocess, the comprehensive planning and the 180 80 acres and such. public safety. Um, again, just highlevel increases. The increase to fire is due largely to those three firecaptains. Um, the animal control budget, it seems like a big jump is actually wesort of underbudgeted uh for 2025. So, these are this is just a more realisticnumber. And then within public works, um, wehave that one additional staff, the market wage adjustment. Um, and then Iwould um, also just kind of point out if you're looking at the year-to- date um,and I believe it was council member Herman maybe asked this. It's a reallygood question about um, the difference between our year-to- date numbers andour budgeted numbers. So, I just want to mention that the public works staff um,expenses are budgeted one way, but we bill them according to the work thatthey do. So, there is kind of a big variation between our year-to- datenumbers and our budgets for next year and our our budgets for this yearactually even. So um still trying to get a handle on on good processes for forthat. Okay. So again um here's ourexpenditures and then we just need to know how we are going to pay for theseservices. So we'll move into revenues. Um the uhblue section of this pie chart is taxes. Uh again those are the only the generalfund taxes that funds our operations. Um, we also have licenses and permits,charges for services. A lot of those two segments are based on developmentcharges and building permits. Um, so we're just going to assume that thoseare going to kind of hold steady for the next um year. Um, intergovernmental, Iwant to point out that is a significant decrease because we are moving the MSAdollars that we would normally put into the general fund, those are beingdeposited directly into our infrastructure reserve fund. Um, and then I also am budgeting alittle closer to actuals for investment earnings. Um, and then again down at the bottomthat $300,000 is the uh use of fund balance. Uh, debt service funds, we added the2025A bond um, and nothing else dropped off this year. So that is a 5% increasethere. And then our capital fund levies. Um sothese are uh new this uh in 2025. Um so we are trying to build up these um uhI'm going to call them savings account type things. So we're trying to um evenout our levy process um by having separate funds and being able to savefor our larger projects that are coming. Um, we are starting to get a much betterhandle on the capital needs because of going to a 10-year CIP, which we willtalk about next. Um, and so this these are just kind of heading in the rightgetting us headed in the right direction. So our total levyuh would be 11,497,785. That is an increase of one approximately1.4 million or 14%. The tax impact of that. So we usuallylook at tax impact using a median value home um which has uh gone up justslightly this year here in Lake Elmo. So it's currently for 2026 it will be at585,800. And so using the tax rate from last yearof 26.84 84 and going up to the estimated tax rate of 29.57, you wouldsee an increase of $179 for the year on a median value home. Um, this is just ameasurement. Obviously, nobody has that exact increase. And so, it reallydepends on the property and how it's valued.Here's our tax rate relative to um the 10cities in Washington County that are most comparable in population. Um sowe're on the low end generally across all cities in Washington County andwithin um those that are we are closest to in population we are we moved up apoint so we are at oh I believe it's seveneight sorry um moving on to the utility funds so umfund accounting and gen in um government you have the general fund which is sortof the the overall operations and then our utility funds specifically ally umare the expenses uh for those water stewer and storm utilities. So it'spublic works department but within those utilitiesum these are a little trickier to compare year to year. So I do I have thetwo years and then I did start to break them down by operations and then capitaland debt um just to try and get a better handle on sort of just how how much isoperations changing um because debt um sorry because capital can vary quite abit year to year. The main uh increase in water operationsis due to the um PAS uh treatment plant at well 2 coming online this year. Thoseare those expenses are going to be reimburseable by that MPCA grant. And then as we move um and kind ofcreate these better processes, we're budgeting for these minor funds. So wedid um separate out some funds for fire equipment and projects uh again to justkind of level out those general fund operations. So his um projects for thisyear are um fewer than last year. And then city center shared expenses.Again, this is um a new fund. So this is an internal service fund where we arekeeping track of all of the city center expenses and billing them back to thedepartments that are within here here within city center. I'm happy to answer any questions at themoment and then we do need to have our truth and taxation hearing.>> Yeah. >> Questions for Clarissa.>> Council member Hearn, >> could you just remind me again what isour fund balance at? >> You uh from like a percentage standpointat the end. So fund balance is measured at the beginning of each year. So fundbalance >> um and I believe at dur for the audit uhit was around 130 130%. Our policy is 50 to 60%. So we do have some room to movein there. Um however we are doing this long-term planning. I have some ideas onhow we need to kind of shift stuff around. So um use of fund balance is notnecessarily something that we want to continue to do to fund operations.>> Okay. Can you remind us what we I and I knowwe said use the $300,000. It was a one one time expense. What can somebodyremind me what that was for? >> So we um I took um out of the sort oflist of projects as we were going through the budget. So, a lot of thecomprehensive planning, all right, >> um the 180 acres planning, sort of theseum one-time type things, the finance software, the general fund portion.>> Okay. There are you have more question. Um, no. I'll wait.>> Okay. All right. So, thenI'll take a motion to open the public hearing for truth and taxation.>> So moved. >> Second.>> I have a motion in a second. All those in favor, please signify by saying I.>> I. >> I.We are in public hearing at 7:40 p.m. If anybody wishes to speak on thistopic, feel free to go to the podium, state your name and address for therecord. You'll have six minutes to talk. Won't be any back and forth, but we'rehere to listen. >> Well, thank you for your time. Uh, myname is Mary Deutsch. What was the other thing I was supposed to say to you?>> Your address? uh 2699 Imperial Avenue. As a stakeholder with the city of LakeEmmo, I am asking for the city council to provide documentation for how this1.4 million proposed 2026 tax increase is to be allocated. I guess we've justseen that tonight. The 2025 tax increase was for 1.2million. This is a $2.6 6 million revenue increase over the 2-year period.On top of this revenue stream, Lake Elmo is billing each resident an additionalmonthly fee of $5.75 through the Excel Energy bill betweenthe gas and the electric services. I believe this fee first began in June ofthis year. There has been no transparency orcommunication as to what this fee was for. In speaking with the financedirector, which I believe was you, I was told it was for capital improvements andinfrastructure and it wasn't just a short team short-term fee.Aren't these items to be supported by our property taxes?This appears to be a sneaky way to generate extra revenue. With an increasein the number of homes and the increase in home valuations,one would expect that the current revenue received should cover theexpenses without proposing a 14% increase for this 2026 year.There are those of us who are on fixed incomes and have to manage our financesprudently. We have to go without or modify our expenditures in order to livewithin our means. Lake Elmo should also manage their finances with a similarphilosophy. I hope that after this meeting you willlook for areas where this proposed 2026 levy can be trimmed thoughtfully lookingat ways to reduce the spending. Doing thorough due diligence on whether a newcapital expenditure is truly needed or can be modified to obtain a lower pricepoint based on an accurate bidding process. and also completingand also completed properly to minimize future maintenance costs. We as lack asLake Elmo taxpayers deserve accountab account accountability and transparentcommunications from our leaders in city government and the city council as youare the stewards of our tax dollars. During your future scrutiny and reviewof this proposed levy, we as residents would appreciate any reductions you canmake for 2026. >> Thank you.>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good evening. Thanks for the opportunityto come and talk tonight on the truth and taxation hearing. My name is CliffBjo. I live in Lake Elmo in the carriage station development.>> Can you state your address, please, Cliff?>> I'm sorry. >> Could you please state your address?>> Oh, certainly. 12187 Marquest Lane Cove North.Um, median value homes. Um, mine on my current proposed 2026 taxes is not the581,000 that you mentioned. It's less than that. Uh, but my taxes according tothis statement are going up 16 and a4%. Not the 14%.So if my median value home is less than what you say the tax of 14 is based on,why is mine going up 16 and a quarter? I don't know.Um, together with what uh this woman shared,uh, I think the franchise fees are ridiculous. I don't like them. It's nottransparent. Uh, if we're going to build, uh, and I Iasked the question of the city administrator, why are these on my Exceland uh, electric and gas bill? I was told it's dedicated money for parks.Um, I think the lady who was here before me didn't really understand what it wasfor other than capital improvement projects. So, here again, I think thecommunication for these fees uh wasn't very good. And I I don't even know howthey could have been justified and put into place other than the fact thatstate of Minnesota franchise fee laws allowed the council to do this withoutthe taxpayers voting for it. Um, it just seems a bit disingenuous andI I don't know. I 1.2 million, 1.4million. Uh, lots of money, right? Lots and lots of money. And I don't know whathappened to trying to stay within uh closer to the rate of inflation. Um,we've got water issues. Uh, I had an email exchange with council member Holtzabout whether or not 3M is going to fit the foot the bill for all of the waterfiltration equipment that we have to manage PAS. Uh, I believe uh, councilmember, you'll have to correct me if I misinterpret what we talked about, butwhat I recall is 3M is supposedly supposed to pay forthis in the agreement that they had with the state of Minnesota, but we're notsure if that's going to happen. So, we have to properly reserve funds in orderfor the city to pay for it if 3M doesn't or isn't held accountable. I I I guess Idon't know. But I think one thing this council could do is tell the taxpayersin Lake Elmo whether or not there's uh active pursuit of 3M to pay for whatthey were supposed to pay for. Um that's another thing um that I think should bedone. and you know, Washington County, City ofLake Elmo, uh, ISD, 834,um, all of these taxing districts always tell us how much more money theyneed from us. What we never seem to hear is how moreefficient these uh entities are going to be because they've scrutinized theexpenses and they've decided that they can trim or save money in broad-basedcategories and then communicate that to the taxpayers. We never hear how you'retrying to save money. All we hear about as taxpayers is how you want more andneed more, right? And in this case, 14%more. In my case, 16 and a quarter% more. And I think it would be a muchbetter much more well-rounded presentationif you presented to the taxpayer where you were able to save and how much youwere able to save through initiatives that department heads are charged withcarrying out. Um, so that's one recommendation I wouldhave for this city. And here's an example of ways topossibly save money. Granted, it's only one example from one day. Last Tuesday,uh, starting at about 2:00, we had snowfall begin. I ended up with I thinkwe ended up with about 5 in. At about 1000 a.m. last Tuesday, soapproximately four hours before the snow started to fall, the plow went throughmy development, taking off about a half an inch of snow that had fallen onSunday. What for?Doesn't the public works director and the public works department look at theweather forecast? Somebody told the plows to go out onTuesday morning instead of simply waiting until after the snowfall that wegot Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. And to me, seeing a plow on thestreet in that kind of a situation doesn't produce a lot of confidence inme that people are making sound financial decisions.So again, thanks for the opportunity to come and speak and I hope this councilcan find places to trim expenses and reduce the 14% increase you're lookingto pass. Thank you. >> Thank you. Nobody else. All right. Well, I'll uhentertain a motion to close the public hearing.>> Motion to close the public hearing. >> Second.>> We have a motion to close and a second to close the truth and taxation hearing.All those in favor, please signify by saying I.>> I. closed at 7:51 p.m. I'll entertain a motion on theum resolution for the 2026 budget and levy.Motion to approve resolution 2025-084 setting the 2026 property tax levy andadopting various 2026 budgets. >> There a second.>> Second. >> We have a motion and a seconddiscussion. Council member Holtz as as it's top ofmind, top of memory. Uh Cliff is correct about the exchange that that we had andI don't speak on behalf of council when I respond to those things. is just basedupon my knowledge and experience of being on the settlement work group andwhat's in the public domain. Uh what he was referring to is the future on&mcosts that all the cities, not just Lake Elmo, but all of us will have forinfrastructure that we need to have to protect the health of the public. Thesettlement dollars are running out and will be gone within a year and a half totwo years. But there is a consent agreement that 3M signed previously withthe state. We are not a party to that agreement. We are not allowed in theroom when that agreement is being discussed between 3M and state. Sothere's very limited information we can give because we are not allowed in thatroom. And 3M has indicated they plan to take it to arbitrationto they don't agree with how the state islooking to try to get that process rolling is essentially that. So, we hada previous discussion about utility rates for water and there was anincrease of it partially due to making sure that we take into accountdepreciation for the system which has not always been the case and also topotentially start to build up a a coffer so to speak for funds in case we are onthe hook for something that we should not be. Not one of us up here, I I thinkI can speak reasonably true on this, not one of us wants to be in that position,but we also know that we all have a responsibility to ensure our watercontinues to be healthy. That is our first priority and duty. Um, but Cliffis correct about that conversation. Um, number one, thank you for both Cliff andfor yourself for speaking. That is your job as residents to be here and beingpaying attention and to provide feedback. Um this is one meeting amongeight that u has been the case and we have received other feedback as well. Umon your end, thank you for this presentation and for that bookI I consider that to be professionalism right there. There's an 80pageessentially budget manual to explain to the public, to us, to other staff, toother communities who are looking to be like, well, what are other people doing?How can we? That is fantastic and is not somethingthat we have necessarily seen in prior years. And it makes these discussionseasier from the standpoint of we have quality information in front of us tothen have that discussion instead of possible confusion or possiblearguments that have that are not related. We can actually have the factsin front of us. So, thank you for that. It's very clear. It is transparent andit's easily accessible for the public, which is all of our jobs. So, kudos forthat. um in terms of the cost and for thosewho have watched these meetings, we've had the these discussions five or sixtimes now. So that's why if you if you're watching it, it's not that wemight not have a lot to say. We've had these discussions many times. This ismore so um are has anything changed? Have we received additional feedbackthat might um um cause an amendment, an alteration? I am of the opinion thatwhen it comes to paying off the land for the ball fields that I believe is in theinterest of this community for our long term. When it comes to ensuring thathalf of our budget that is for public safety, that those additional chiefs arenecessary, captains are necessary. We're hiring one additional public workswhen I think we we know there there's more labor that's necessary to maintainand have the park system that our residents ask for and are expecting.Between that and inflation, it's not just inflation, it's those additionalcosts for things that are necessary for the city. I I amnot in a place where I feel comfortable saying here's something to eliminate. II do feel reasonably confident that actually I feel fully confident that theitems in this budget align with the expectations the public has for theservices that the city should be providing. I have not received a singlecomment, email, phone call or text saying this service should be cut inorder to re change the levy. Not a one. And I I what I have receivedconsistently over time and time again is thank you to our law enforcement. Thankyou to our fire staff who are there on a moment's notice. Thank you for havingquality parks. Thank you for having roads that are far better than they werebefore you, the mayor. than any of us were on on here. Um far better thingsare improving. And I guess the last time I just want to say ispart of this cost is planning for the future. One of the changes that happenedin the past is we went from having a five-year plan. It's called a capitalimprovement program>> program plan >> program plan CIP to a 10-year plan tosay we know there are costs coming up. When is this playground going to be needto be replaced? When is these road projects the and it applies for water,sewer, it applies for parks, roads, things that are big cost things. And nowit's a 10-year thing which allows us to budget properly. If you saw from thatpresentation, a lot of these things are putting money aside to pay for thosefuture costs so we don't have a massive jump from one year to the next because II as much as this is an increase, I would prefer these types of increasethan one that is an absurd jump that is not defensible. I I believe fiscalresponsibility in my view is planning for the future and being responsible,being transparent, planning for depreciation,knowing what your future costs are and doing the best that you can to plan forthat future because it to me it's not about necessarily tomorrow. It's aboutthe next week, the next year, and 10 years from now. It's all of those. And Ithink this budget is moving in that direction, which is all I have to say.Council member Jagassich, a>> couple of um additional comments. One is there's some discussion uh at by theresidents about the franchise fee and the franchise fee of course replaces atax levy. One thing realize a franchise fee goes to everyone and not everyonepays taxes in the city. So by using franchise fees to pay for some of thesecosts, half it goes to the parks and half goes into street improvements. weexpand the base and reduce the amount actually paid by our residents umbecause we have tax exempt entities and it spreads that burden over everybody.Um you may not like it but it's better than putting them on the property taxesper se. I think um the only comment that I would repeat is I think we couldreduce the amount of the levy increase by phasing some things in over greaterlength of time, but I already made that discussion at our previous meetings. I'mnot going to repeat it. The other question I had though looking over thebudget document was um in the enterprise funds we're talking about going to aseparate capital fund for each utility. I personally see no value in that.They're enterprise funds. Um they're fairly straightforward and simple. Nowstart pulling money out and put a capital fund makes it difficult andcomplicated for our residents to follow what's going on in them. We talk aboutrate increases. I know some cities do them. Uh I can tell you that in myexperience the major utilities don't do that. um just because it makes it morecumbersome. But that's just my opinion. May not be shared by everybody.That's I'm sensitive to people and and their need. You know, property tax aregoing up. $179 a month um doesn't sound like a huge a year. I mean, is $15 amonth, >> but you know, you're having a hard timepaying your your mortgage and your electric bill. It's a burden on you whenyou have to make that decision. On the other hand, I do think the operatingcosts that we're increases we're looking at are needed. Our population isgrowing. We need to be able to support them. Um, and the those increases, Ithink, will provide m able us to maintain and improve our level ofservice. And I think they're good expenditures. Thank you.>> Thank you, Council Member Hearn.>> I guess I'll just touch on the transparency part first. um cuz thatjust with the the public comment on that and I you know I think this ischallenging because you know I think if someone's kind of seeing the reporttonight possibly for the first time hearing the the discussion tonight itmight seem like well you know there's not a lot of discussion about this andit to me this was even kind of counterintuitive uh the first year thatI I did this and I'd say probably the majority of the discussion happened backin in August during that initial conversation and um you know and I thinkI need to do a better part as a a council member um making that known toresidents that if you know that's really the time I think that we need moreresidents paying attention and coming and voicingtheir concern. Um, you know, if you go back and and watch these, you'll seethroughout I've been pretty critical um of the the amount of increase. Um,initially in August, it was looking at a 20% increase. Um, was very critical ofthat. We got it down to a 14% increase. I was still very critical about that atour September meeting. um as well as our um we we kind of reviewed uh with thefinancial the long-term financial planning meeting which not one of thethe budget calendar meetings but I've been very concerned with this even at the 14% butstill just with the transparency piece for a second you know I I think again wecan always do a better job communicating that and getting that information out. Ithink from my standpoint with the levies, which again, not that I 100%agree with them in the first place, but I do think from a transparencystandpoint that they actually do provide more transparency uh in the sense ofwe're saying, hey, the funds that are coming in from these levies that we'reusing with the the infrastructure reserve levy, the street maintenancelevy, the vehicle equipment levy, we're being very transparent with like thosefunds are going towards those items. And again, me personally, I I do like thattransparency. I don't like the amount that we're asking to go into those, butI do like the transparency aspect of it. Um, I willgo back to the it was the what was it the November the November 12th workshop where we werepresented with the three different optionsfor if we uh fund the infrastructure reserve fund with um 200,000 versus400,000 versus 500,000. I think the which again I reallyappreciate that that was put together for us. I think that showed that we canabsolutely decrease that amount that we're putting in there from 400,000decrease that to 200,000 and we're absolutely still being fiscallyresponsible. We're mo moving towards our goal of decreasing that debt load from55 million down towards 25 million versus if we go to 400,000 over thosenext 12 years it decreases to 20 million instead of 25 million. Both of those aresignificantly a better place for us to be in. Um I I still feel very stronglythat 14% is too high uh of an increase. Again, I'll go back to that Augustworkshop. I think I I went through line by line on the general fund um expensesand you know I I challenged items there and got push back on that which is fine,right? That's the the staff knows best what's what's needed for thosesituations. I'm I'm going to every single year push back on that a littlebit because I do totally agree and again I think I've made this pretty apparentthroughout the the last several months that I do get a little frustrated that alot of the conversation and this was mentioned in the open the public hearingthat the conversation is always how do we increase revenue aka taxes with verylittle talk about what can we do to decrease these um or decrease the rateof increase. Um and I I do think there needs to be more focus on that and it'stough. Um we have to do it personally and you know with our personal financeswe have to do that as a city. So that still is my my my frustration so farwith this year is I don't think we've brought it down enough. I think I mightbe in the minority on that. But uh I am against this increase. I think we needto decrease that infrastructure reserve fund to 200,000. Um, I think we coulddecrease the both the street and maintenance uh levy as wellas the vehicle and equipment levy to be consistent with the the CPI increaseover the past year. Um, so decrease both of those, you know, another 50,000 totalbetween the two of those. Um, that could decrease our our total levy by 250,000.That makes it 11% increase, which still is too high, uh, but moving in the rightdirection. And, um, you know, as much as I would like to say, I'd love to seea 3% increase, you know, cons across the whole thing, consistent withwith inflation. That's not reasonable. We're a growing city. We're going tohave more expenses and we got to cover those. Um, but I do think we need tolook at decreasing this further. I think it's still too high.Thank you. >> Well, I'll just say yes, we've talkedabout this uh quite a bit and uh like council member Hearn, I did go throughline by line and understand that we have a lot of expenses.Probably one of the largest ones that we've experienced increases with is withour fire department and providing that service for the city and moving intomore of a 24hour, 7 days a week service that um quitefrankly is is uh necessary for the the public safety. And umas a city previously debt has never really been addressed. Wekeep adding on debt and our debt load is getting to a point where it's not reallybe wasn't it hasn't been managed. And so by getting some of these levies in placeI think sets the city in the long term. Um is it a big chunk right now? Yes, Iagree. >> Um,but and you could stop it, but then you're not getting rid of the debt, atleast how I would like to see the debt reduced over the long term to put thecity in a more financially viable situation. the increases that we saw in2022 and 2023 were not recognizing the generalincreases that the country as a whole saw from the the COVID and the increasesthat that were taking place. Uh let's remember that we're paying for increaseson health insurance. a lot of things that that umquite frankly come down from whether it's national legislation or statelegislation effect on what it costs residents every day for the things thatwe use. I've lived in this community for 20 years. I've been very fortunate atthe low taxes that we have. I still think relatively speaking, they're lowand I get great services. They have great parks. Um,uh, the the sheriff's department does a great job in policing our community, andI still think that's of a high value. Um, would I like to see it lower? Yes.But again, after going through the line asking myself, what are we going to cutout? And I didn't see where we're cutting out. It's adding three captains.It's increases in general. I don't know what health insurance is 10%. I mean,these things cost more. If we want to be competitive wage-wise for public worksdepartment, you got to be paying competitive wages or you're not going toget the staff that are going to be able to plow your roads and take care of yourstreets and clear out your drain system. So, I get it. Um, on the surface I agreeagreed, but I also when going through the budget did not find where there werelarge chunks other than in decreasing the levy like you said, council memberHearn and and reducing taking longer to do some of that and I'm just of adifferent opinion. Uh, I'd rather attack it and um I just think that sets up foruh future longterm success. Craig,Council Member Kragnes. >> Yeah, I just want to echowhat um the mayor was saying and council member Holtz. Um I do agree that we justneed to attack this. Of course, I'd love to see a tax rate lower than a 14%increase, but with the debt that we have and the growing city, I just think thatit's a necessary increase as of now. Um, and Clarissa, I just want to thank youfor putting this together. This mailer is extremely digestible for people tosee exactly where their funds are going to. And also the budget calendar ofknowing that this wasn't just a one-time meeting. We've met about this severaltimes. And like Council Member Holtz, I haven't gotten any emails or texts oranything like that with any dissenting opinions about the tax levy tonight. So,>> um, I just appreciate all the hard work that got put into this. So, thank you.>> Thank you. >> If I may, mayor.>> Sure. >> Could I just give some kudos to my staffand Kathy, our communications coordinator. So, we did um put togethera one-pager for you guys to hand out and then we're going to be emailing it outand it will be in the fresh. So, just um hopefully digestible. I know it's stillmath and taxes and and budgets, but um uh and then the budget book. I got a lotof help from my finance staff to put that together. Just kind of um up ourgame a little bit with the presentation of some of these numbers. And of courseum I am always willing to sit down with people um like Cliff uh and talk abouthow um my this 14% tax levy increase does not necessarily equate to a 14% onyour taxes. Happy to run anybody's numbers using their actual values.>> Sure. Thank you. So I'll call the question. All those in favor of themotion to approve resolution 2025-084 setting the 2026 property tax levyadopting various 2026 budgets. Please signify by saying I.>> I. Those opposed I >> Okay. Passes 32. Next we have you to stay up there as wetalk about the 2026 2035 capital improvementprogram. >> I'm going to fly through this kind ofquick because again you guys have heard this before. Um so the CIP is verysimply our plan for the big stuff we need. So, we moved from a five-year to a10-year uh I believe two years ago now. Um and it just is giving us a lot betterpicture of of our long-term needs. So, we're using that for the capitalimprovement planning. We're using it for um debt planning, um the the levyplanning. So, taking all of this information and wrapping our headsaround the long-term needs of the city. Um, I added our our uh guidingprinciples which are our core strategies that were developed in the strategicplan earlier this year. Um, I listed some of our funding sourcesand how our priority rankings work within the the um plan. Just going to mention the fundingsources. You'll notice um a number of these are then relate directly to thosecapital levies. So, I believe um like council member Hearn stated, it is justa more transparent way to show where our tax dollars are going and kind of wherewhere they feed in long term. So, our 10-year plan currently includesum 145 projects or 141 projects depending on if you're looking at thechart or the number. Um and then we have it broken down um by department. Soyou'll see um quite a few of those um are public works departments and somany that I put together this little chart which shows you can't even see thecolors for admin building and city hall. Fire is the little blue sliver and thenpurple is public works. So if we think of this in terms of our our home, uhsome of our largest personal purchases are things that are related to our home.And so our city is just one big one big house.Um so this is what it looks like if we take out the water treatment plant. Sothe water treatment plant will be um started in theory um in the coming yearthat is going to be funded hopefully by MPCA. Um every time we have theseconversations I get a little bit nervous.Um, and that's $50 million of the >> Just correction, that's not funded bythe MPCA. It's >> sorry,>> funded through the 3M fund that's managed by the MPCA.>> Thank you. Thank you. So, of the 126 total pro 126 million total projects, 50of that is that water treatment plant. So, um, still quite a few in publicworks. Um, so here's public works by our subtypes. So, we've got our vehicles andequipment. um public works buildings, our parks, and then our infrastructurebeing the largest segment. And then if we break up infrastructureeven further into streets, water, sewer, and storm water, plenty of fun charts. Um so, quickrundown by department, admin, and finance. Um we have uh the second yearof our um uh software implementation. We are super excited about that. um inJanuary. So that is being split between general fund water and sewer.Um the building department uh has four vehicles and so they have one vehiclepurchase in the next two years. Um within city hall um we are juststarting again and we started this the the operations side the uh internalservice fund um that we build back to the general fund and then we also set upthe um capital fund to plan for the to try and cover the depreciation ofbuilding. So long-term planning for um replacing rugs and and HVAC um stuff.And then we did have some uh things that were discussed. I added them um to theCIP just to have them in a budget and and somewhere we where we can manage.All of these are still um some of these are kind of still up for um discussionand and final numbers and such. So, um the fire department has uh tender 2which was approved for purchase and ordered in 2025 but we'll be paying forit here in the next couple years. And then a utility vehicleand then public works. So the public works department includes streets andgeneral public works, parks, water, sewer, and storm water. For the CIPbreakdown, um I break it down by the um vehicles and equipment, the buildingsand some other stuff, parks, and then infrastructure is broken out intostreets, water, sewer, and storm water. So we have four uhvehicles and equipment being purchased in the next couple of years. 30 projectstotal. Um they're going to be doing some uhfinishing of the floors. Um the Jamaica building needs some paving and thenthey're looking at doing a security fence and gate at the public worksbuilding. Uh parks and recreation. These projectsare typically funded through the park dedication fund which is funded bydevelopers. Um and so we have a new park pavilion. Uh, I believe the location isto be determined. Um, some trail additions and maintenance, courtresurfacing, and some playground replacements. Uh, streets, uh, this council adoptedthe, uh, street infrastructure plan in July. That, um, I believe, uh, was whenJack presented that. Um, and so we take all of that information from, um, thatplan and build it into the CIP. Um, so I won't rehash those too much. So,just want to um touch on the funding sources again. Um, sort of going back tothe mayor's point about debt. Um, these street projects have been largely fundedby debt in the past and so we started that infrastructure uh capital levy inorder to decrease that overtime. So, our funding sources for streets uh include amix of some bonding still the infrastructure fund uh specialassessments for some of those streets, Minnesota state aid again will bedeposited directly into that 409 fund used to fund these projects and then umpotentially some transfers from the general fund. And just to be clear, someof that uh 27 projects includes projects that wehave to participate in that are being done by others.>> Correct. >> The county when we have to do our costparticipation, right? That's not purely citydriven projects.>> Absolutely. >> So, um for the next couple years, uh wehave our annual street improvement program, which are typicallyneighborhood streets. um the 45th uh a whole bunch of streets there. Um andthen uh to the mayor's point, the county project, so the trunk highway 36 andLake EML Avenue improvements. Um I believe our contribution to that is $5million uh at this tentatively at this time to be determined. Um we also are looking at a long-termplan to fund street lights. So we've started to work these in. Um, we havejust a couple of uh replacements I believe we need to figure out uh for thenext couple years and then the rest are uh a little ways out. But we're againjust kind of starting to build these uh that plan.The water uh fund funds all of our capital improvements for water. Soagain, these are utilities that are paid directly by users. These do not come outof property taxes. Um I should say users and development. There are developmentfees and so wells, water towers, watertreatment facilities which are largely funded by the um grant funds and thenwater manes and some pumps. The sewer fund similarly uh paid byusers. We have some uh the only major expenditure is some uh oversizing and then storm water um is our both ourstructures and then also some ponds, ditches and such are all um included inthat. And so we have pencled in some phase two improvements at the Northstaruh which is oversizing I guess. and then some other um system improvements thatare being worked on um by uh engineering to kind of determine what we need.So funding and debt um I already touched on this and I'll just add the franchisefees um that are being deposited into the infrastructure fund. So half of allof those franchise fees are going directly towards our capitalimprovements on streets. >> That's it. questions for council memberDragassuchich. >> Looking through this again, I stillremain confused as to on our street improvement projects. While we don'thave storm water funding, storm water utility funding as a source for thosestorm water improvements that go into our street improvements, we have catchbasins and pipes and of course portion of the curb and gutters is you know forstorm water flow and so it would provide some you know additional source ofrevenue there that would be appropriate because they support the storm water andwe can't resolve that tonight. Anyway, I just bring that up because I want tokeep it in the back of our mind as we get to that project for funding for 2026and say what portion should be should be funded from storm water and then if thefund can actually afford that's the second question. So it is there's twopieces there but I just want to keep that in people's minds because it wouldrelieve some of the debt we've been issuing to finance the streets.Thank you. Council member Holtz, >> can you remind me or Chief, can youremind me for tender to the cost, but also how much we saved by doing it inthis year instead of potentially for next year when we knew the costs weregoing to dramatically increase. Yeah, when we locked into uh pricingwhen we placed the order, um overall u project for that was I believe 1.2million. I think by getting in um early, we saved roughly $50,000 by getting inand lock and securing a pre-emissions change um power plant for the uh forthat truck. Um given timelines there there's a possibility that that completetruck gets completed in 26. So we might not have 27 expenses to that truck wherewe currently are planning for that in the in the fund. Um, we do a earlychassis payment when the chassis gets delivered to the uh to the plant. We doa prepayment then, which I think for this truck was uh um I believe 11%discount um back to the price of the truck and then when the truck iscompleted and we take final delivery, then we make uh final payment. But, um,with the early purchase, just going a few months early and getting our spot inline and securing that, uh, that power pet, we were right around 50 $55,000savings. >> Gotcha. Thank you. And then engineeringwise, because and the reason I asked this because I mean Cliff made acomment, well, government never talks about savings.I can go into discussion as to why that is. there are bureaucratic reasons thatare valid, but in terms when we go out for bids for projects, like I know thishas been discussed before, like we have a goal of trying to get it out on thefront end. Is there a way to document or objectively state how muchmoney that saves compared to if the bids were done later? Because I know that'sbeen the argument is when you do later bids, you have fewer people, thereforeyou're not as it's not as competitive. But is there a way that in the futurelike we can just have that as a data point to say here's the money that wesaved because we were proactive and got these bids out early or is it or is thatmore of a hypothetical? >> Uh mayor and councel uh to that questionI I'll have to say that is more of a hypothetical. Um it's it'd be very hardto measure that. Um what I will say is that generally when you do get out tobid sooner you're going to get better pricing because there's you know kind ofless work on the street. Contractors are trying to set up their season. Um, andit's it's a it's a good general rule of thumb. You know, like the early birdgets the worm, right? Um, typically you'll see bid prices go up as theconstruction season goes on. Um, it's something we can certainly look into andmaybe just provide um provide a little feedback to that point.I would just like to add that a previous employer when I managed our our uhoverlay program that managed somewhere in the8 to 11 million a year. We uh the first year I was there, we didn't get our bidsout to package until May. And the price per ton forBatuminous was really high. Uh then we vowed to get it out inFebruary, March. So the thought is they're not full of work. They mighthave some carry work, carryover work from the year before, but you get morebiders, you get more competition. As the season goes on, those contractors whoare successful in their bids get full and they'll do it, but they'll do it fora price, right? So you'll get really competitive bids on your batuminousasphalt in early and then you might see that price go up or you'll, you know,they're going to have to work their guy more guys longer. They have to hire morepeople to do more work and so that just exacerbates the problem on the ongetting your bids out late. So it's to me it's really important to get it inFebruary, March when that competition's there is. Council member Jaguchich.>> Mayor, I'll I'll concur on that. As someone who actually preparedcompetitive bids for street projects for a contractor, um I can tell you that thebidding is much more competitive in February and March for the reasons youcited. >> Yeah.>> And the contractor I provided the bids for, we get later in the year, we behave a pretty full calendar, say, "Well, we're going to bid this, but we're goingto bid it at a premium because if we get it, we're going to make a lot of money,and if we don't get it, we're already booked up.">> Right. So I can confirm what you're saying,>> but >> I don't know that you can measure that.It' be more speculation or >> Gotcha.>> Right. >> And then question for public worksand correct me on this. I mean we we had the discussion we had the joint meetingwith parks commission and parks commission then had additional meetingswhen it came to the discussion of uh Lion's Park playground equipmentand because right I mean there's a reason that is the largest allocation itis there's the valid reasons for it but where are we on that spec it's allocatedfor 26 what steps have occurred at this point now>> for lion specifically >> for lion specifically for the playgroundreplacement >> so the playground replacement did comeback to city council and was approved for the um for the replacement of thatplayground. >> Yep. Andmore so this is for the the public side, but we have that and then we havemultiple shelters in line year by year by year,but that is not a discussion that we've really had in terms of do we want tocontinue with that. >> Correct. uh because I I'm more so I'mtrying to lay the groundwork for you know people are asking for costreductions that is a large one that alreadyoccurred for Lions Park but there are other opportunities coming up so I'mtrying to I'm asking the questions to start to lay that groundwork thank you further questions all right uh Uh, I entertain a motion toadopt the 2026 2035 capital improvement program. >> Motion to adopt the 2026 to 2035 capitalimprovement program. >> Is there a second?>> A motion in a second. Council member Hearn, Council Member Dragassich.Uh, discussion. >> No, I would Go ahead. Go ahead. I wouldadd um is you know we have a capital improvement program but it's not etchedin stone. It's a program and we will use as a guide going forward but things maythings may change along the way and I want to make you know put my point tothe public as we've talked before uh often times come well this isn't ourcapital improvement program staff presents a problem that's true it is umcouncil has a choice then to continue doing it change it make it bigger makeit smaller or get rid of it because it's just a guide at this point>> correct council member her >> and so off to that point That is why Iam okay with this motion in favor of it. I do have concerns because my onlyconcern with that mindset is that causes what we're trying to raise in those fundlevies. It causes us to increase that amountbecause we're trying to make projections based off of those. So, I think we haveto be really cautious of saying, well, you know, this isn't a for sure thing,but it is what we're we're raising taxes based off of. So, I think we have to bereally careful with that. Again, I think this goes back to this is, you know, ifif this is somebody's first time hearing us talk about this, it might not seemlike much has been talked about, but again, with the previous um workshopsand council meetings where we've discussed this, there's been a lot ofthis conversation. Again, I've had a lot of um concerns with this, I just I Ithink in general um we have to look at this again from thatperspective of what can we do to cut this. You know, I think with thoseconversations, the ones that have kind of been brought up the most is and atleast like from my perspective, I think a couple areas that we can focus on arethe streets specifically. I I just it's the by far the the largest item um thelargest expense in the CIP. So, even a small percentage change just in that onearea is going to make a really big impact on on the whole CIP. Um I thinkthe playgrounds, that's something that we've discussed quite a bit. um from thesense of we've had the conversation around do we consolidate playgroundsinstead of having 20 uh small playgrounds that cost $200,000 toreplace every 20 years at today's price instead do we go with do we go with 10playgrounds that maybe cost $100,000 more but we're not having to replacethem as often um does that make more sense I think those are a couple areasthat we can focus on over the next year I think another two other things. Ithink it might be worthwhile keeping priority four and five items outof the CIP altogether. Um, at least at priority five. Um, or at a bare minimumseeing what the price looks like without priority five in there. Um, I think byincluding priority four and five, um, it's it's kind of like the wish list ishow I see it. And I don't even think we should be doing that. I thinkWe we somehow need to be aware of those things. That might be a possibility ofsomething we need, but I hate putting them in the CIP because then again,we're we're raising taxes today based off of a wish list is how I see that.So, I I I do think that maybe we need to considerat least removing priority five from the CIP. We can have a list of, hey, theseare projects that we need to consider for future CIPs that might be, you know,a priority one through three. Um, but I think we keep them out of there so wecan have a better idea of tax-wise what we need to be raising. Um, and I guessthis kind of goes to my second ask of staff over the next year. And maybe it'sjust simply doing that, but you know, if we could just look do a like a thoughtexperiment of looking at that sap and say, hey, if we had to cut 10%. What dowe do? Right? Not that it has to happen, but so we have that ability to say whenresidents come and ask us, well, what are you how are we trying to save money?what have we tried to do to um to decrease taxes or to to increase it at aslower rate? You know, we can come back and say, "Hey, like these were thethings that we looked at as a council. We said, you know what, we we could wecouldn't make those cuts. We we can't afford it. We need those services, butat least we've we've we've taken the look at how do we possibly decreaseexpenses, and hopefully it does decrease them, but at a bare minimum, at leastwe're going through the the the action of of trying to find a way to slow downthis increase." Um, those would be my two asks. But again, you know, I think alot of work's been put into it this year. I'm fine with it. It's differentfrom the budget in the sense of um it's not increasing our taxes per seum as a result of what we're approving tonight, but I I do think we need tomake some changes with those priority four five. I think we need to be veryconscientious of when these item comes up, which we do.Do we need is it time to replace the vehicle or can it make another year? Andagain, I through our conversations that we've had, I know that's been thoroughlydiscussed of, you know, yeah, we're not just getting the vehicle because it'sseven-year mark. We're looking at is it time? So, um I know that's happening. Um yeah,>> I really like the idea of uh of probably removing four and five from a costperspective as they are there. I think that's something we should look at. Ilike that idea. Um you wanted to say something else>> or >> keep going.>> Why? I didn't really have much to say. I was going to call the question. No, Ibecause I've mentioned that before in previous meetings when like when Jackwas here and I I don't know if it is to you as well that yes, at a minimumnumber five when we're doing future analyses and projections at a minimumnumber five should not be in the calculation. I think arguably numberfour. Now we could have it be a ranking of 10 numbers for all that matters. Itdid. I mean, my when I look at those numbers, I agree with council memberHearn and the mayor. Five is let's identify it as a placeholder, but we'renot even placing a value on it. I don't know if four is or isn't it? I mean, itagain, we could have 20 numbers for all that matters. Icould have six numbers, but for sure, absolutely. Let's in the future analyseskeep five off there for how much we are choosing to put in place because you arecorrect. That determines how much we're putting in for the future costs. And asan example, the new park pavilions I think should be a five. I I do I theyare great to have, but if the feedback isand I I cannot stand the phrase because it's not true, tighten your belt. Well,that's an example. That's an amenity. It is a choice. It's not a necessity. It'snice to have and if we really really want it, there are other ways togenerate revenue such as partnerships with HOAs or donations, etc., etc. Thatthat that to me is a prime example of a number five that we should not beprojecting the revenues for. But I also am fully aware some of these things thatare on here are not being paid for with the levy in any way, shape, or form.Such as a park development at Limmerick. I'm fully aware that's coming from parkpark dedication from if they get approval and they would be paying forit. So it does depend upon the project but I I digress. I I I think in thefuture we should have that discussion as to where that cut off is.Council member Hearn, >> obviously this would be, you know, inthe further discussions. Again, I just that my initial concern is we would haveto think about the details on that though. You know, if we we take out wesay, hey, no more priority four and five, do they just turn into prioritythree then? Right. And so I think we'd have to really talk through how do we wego about that? Maybe we keep them, but we just don't keep don't put them intothe price, >> right? You you keep the the the nameYeah. >> only. Yeah.>> Right. like so we don't forget about it. >> Y>> and I mean that's kind of along the lines I was thinking. So>> yeah, I don't want to see it be gamed this way is oh it's an item four thecouncil's not even a consider it's >> I think I think we set up our strategiesand our key initiatives at the beginning year with stakeholders and the counciland the staff. Um I think that's what drives a lot of you know the first twoyears into the year three. So, um, anyway.>> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. Um, all those in favor of themotion to adopt 2026 2035 capital improvement program, please signify bysaying I. >> I.>> I. >> Motion passes. Got your standin shoes ontonight. >> I'm fine.>> You got the 2026 fee schedule here. Okay. So, um I'm going to have to deferto council member or sorry to uh staff if we have um any questions. Um this isa very collaborative effort. So, we just have a few minor changes to um the feeschedule um this year. Other than umI in our as I was listening to Adam discuss the policy revisionI don't think those park fees got revised in this version of the feeschedule. So, if we could help me figure out a motion to amend the fee scheduleaccording to the >> what did we just adopt?>> Park use park >> policy. Um we would take thosebuild it into the fee schedule before we publish it.Um that would be very helpful. So, um the fire department added a fee for someCPR classes um that have some costs to them which require a certification card.Um building department added an escrow for inground pools and some otherprojects near easements. Just recognizing um some of the costs thatcome along with some of these projects and making sure that those are coveredby the um by the property owner. Um they removed the plan review fee forresidential rooftop solar um because the state does that full plan review. Umplanning then added design review fee when not part of a project.Uh they reduced the minimum grading threshold from 50 to 10 cubic yards dueto coordination with engineering and watershed.and then um an escro fee, add an escro fee when selling city property to ensurethat the buyer is aware that they pay all costs.So, fairly minor changes. It's my only slide with the rundown. Umand we have staff members here to answer questions as needed.>> Can I get the thought process on the pro process on the reduction from 50 cubicyards to 10 cubic yards, please? So, when they're in a shoreline overlay,we're required to do um a grading review. So, just make sure that theyhave a permit. >> Is there a way to limit that then toareas that fall within a shoreland over overlay?>> I believe we added that language actually.>> That language is in there. It's just >> Yeah. So, maybe the summary didn't quitecapture what we actually did. So, there's two lines. one that retained theoriginal fee for the up to 50 or 50 and over square yards>> 400 >> and then and then added another one forshoreland. >> Okay.>> Because there might be some farms that don't have a shoreland and they want tomove some dirt and most significantly it's going to it's more likely going tobe more than 10 cubic yards and I don't need an added layer in in some of those.>> Okay. Council member Holtz,>> do we have a for those present um an estimate as to how many water violationswere issued this past summer? And I will rephrase how many locationsare we like in the 10 to 15 properties, 20 properties>> notices or they received a violation or >> violation, a findable violation. So I'dprobably say this year was probably total of three to four.>> Okay. Has it decreased over? Well, obviouslybecause there's a wet summer anyway, we know water usage went down overall, butdo you think there's been a a decrease in terms of thecontinued violation trends? Like I know in prior years there are many peoplethat h second violation, third violation, fourth violation, but thatdid not seem to occur at least this summer or even the past summer.>> Correct. That's that's trending down very fast. I'd say in the last threeyears has gone down tremendously. >> Right. Thank you. here.>> Council member Jerryich, >> when we're looking at the fees andadopting new fees and even the fees we have, are they based in any costanalysis that says here's what it cost us to actually administer this fee? >> Would defer to any of our departmentheads who implement the fees. >> So if you look at meter fees, so meterfees are, you know, your your schedule your meter and the the housing, the thebrackets, everything like that. So that's all there's no increase in costof that. So even if a public works director drops that off that fee is justthe materials involved with it. So there's no additional fees attached tothat. >> So in a cost analy public works we payhim for his time or her for pay for time. They're in a vehicle that drivesit out there that uses gas. And you know of off you know generally you when youlook at the fees you try and base them on what is your cost to provide theservice so that you're you're collecting what it costs you but you're notovercharging either. We have some limits on the building permit fees as we knowbut other fees um there's a fee analysis done that tells us uh the fee should bethis because that's what the cost is to provide the service. This I just it wasjust a question. I'm not >> I would hope that staff is looking atwhat the time it takes them to do some of the activities and then charging theappropriate amount for the time and the uh expense the overhead.>> Yeah. >> Umthat that that it takes to do that activity. Well, and and to that point, I mean, isis it known for some of the licenses and those fees, this typically takes 30minutes to process? This typically takes an hour to process. I mean, it becausethere are multiple ones. I mean, massage therapy, liquor license, uh thegambling. Is that something that's been identifiedin the past to to say yes, this is why this is 150 or 200 or or why it is low?The investigation fee for massage therapy is $25.>> That is low. >> I would say most of our fees have beenaround longer than most of our staff honestly. So I don't I can't I can'tthink of when like a formal fee analysis was done. Um I'm sure that all of uswhen we're start implementing new fees are um you know our basic process is tolook at what other cities charge are charging and contemplate if that's goingto cover our our at least partially cover our uh staff time.>> Yeah, that's something we can talk about a future. I just the question was howdid you get to these fees was really it occurred to me you know perhaps it wasnot an analysis was or wasn't done and you answer the question I'm okay justinformation that's all. >> Sure. Well, the one where I could see it beingpotentially higher. >> Are you asking a question?>> Uh, on for planning purposes, the EAW, how much time does staff takeand it's rare like there might only be one EAW every two years, but it's at1500. I mean, is that representative? Because there's a lot of back and forth.I get they'd have to hire a consultant, but I assume it takes a lot of time onyour end as well. >> It would take more time, but since theywere going through our consultant, they're paying the consultant cost. So,um I think 1,500 is adequate as long as we're still using the consultant goingforward. >> All right.I'll entertain a motion for discussion.Motion to approve ordinance 2025-18 adopting the 2026 city of Lake Elmo feeschedule and to include the park use policy that we approved tonight.>> Good catch. >> Got it.>> Second. >> All right. We have a motion to approveordinance 2025-18 adopting the 2026 city of Lake Elmo feedschedule including the park plan policy that was previously approved thisevening on the agenda. Any discussion? I guess the one thing I would say isthat maybe we staff could in the future, this coming year, make sure that thelook over the fees and make sure they are appropriate given the um the one theone thing at least my previous experience is that sometimesuh because um cities are not for profit, right? Soyou forget about some of the expenses that you incur in doing this. Some ofthe services that you do where a consultant or a private company is goingto say, "Well, I got to I got to pay for this. I got to pay for this. It's goingto take my time. I got to drive there my equipment." Whatever. Just take a lookat the fees and make sure that they're still appropriate. Um if they haven'tbeen changed in 15 years, I would say they're probably low. and do acomparison with our our our cities because these are services that weprovide to whether it's businesses or res residents that have to that needthese things done that for normal business. So, um that that that's myonly comment there. Council member Holtz.>> And the only only comment I had based upon your feedback, Adam, I was going tobe seeing if there was interest in drastically upgrading the violationamounts for water, but I don't know if this was a a goodsample last two years because it was wet summers. And I do have fearsas to how others in power outside the city maywant cities in this area to be carrying outand enforcing uh the requirements of the White BearLake lawsuit. And so I I just that's one piece. So maybe in the back of our mindsit especially if we do have a dry summer this year and we start to see thoseviolations it might be for discussion next fall to see you know what are thoselevels where actually would change behavior on the violations butagain the last two years it didn't happen mainly because there wasn't aneed to overwater but yeah I agree with the mayor.All right, I'll call the question. Uh, all those in favor of the motion toapprove an ordinance 2025-8 adopting the 2026city of Lake Elmo fees schedule including the new parks plan policyrates. Uh, signify by saying I >> I.>> Motion passes. Entertain a motion for authorizing publication.Motion to adopt resolution 2025-085 authorizing publication of ordinance2025-18 by title and summary.>> Can I get a second? >> Second.>> Thank you. All those in favor of the motion to adopt resolution 2025-085authorizing the publication of said ordinance. Please signify by saying I.I. >> Motion is approved.>> Council reports. Council member Jagic. >> No report. Council member Holtz.>> Uh this is the last meeting of the year for the council. So thank you to staff,all those who are here tonight and those who are not. And thank you to fellowcouncil members. That to me like part of being up here like I always thoughtbeing on council one of the purposes I wanted to see was to make governmentboring again. And because truly like we've seeninstances of local government where there's drama or yelling where they haveto hire a parliamentarian like we are past that and part of that is because ofyou all. We have disagreements. We just had a 3-2 vote.We don't go after each other. We don't bring it out into the streets tonot physically out in the streets to create rhetoric and to inflame things.we are able to have agreements and disagreements and know that uh beingable to do the job effectively and to do itas adults, it matters. So, thank you for that. Uh and I would say it starts withleadership from the mayor. So, >> thank you. Umyeah, so 2025, I want to thank staff for what I thinkwas a really great year. a lot of a lot of moving things. Uh first full year foradministrator Miller, right? So getting a feet underneath her and um doing greatthings I think with the staff and I see uh better morale in the staff and and uhgood things coming from that. Uh want to thank uh public works for the snow plowclearing kind of the first major event. I think it was done well. I want tothank the residents for their patience because it's usually takes a couple ofrounds to get that all done. Um I didn't I didn't hear any complaints which Ithink is great. Um, I was able to last week I missed becauseI ended up with the flu that's going around, but I know the weekend prior tothat we had light up Lake Elmo. And um, thanks again for the fire staff helpingmaking sure Santa Claus got uh, delivered to downtown and the publicworks staff for helping off closing the rounds. Again, I'm always a my kids aregrown, but I love seeing other people's kids uh smile and giggle and laugh andguess sometimes cry because maybe they didn't get the lights or whatever theywanted, right? But uh Council Member Holtz had a wonderful voice. Did getsome uh singing along with him and thanks to Council Member Hearn helpingwith the the PA system. Worked much better than than previous years.>> It did. That was a nice speaker. >> It is a nice speaker. So, um I just wantto wish everybody a merry Christmas or a happy Hanukkah or however you choose tocelebrate during this holiday season. And um yeah, thank you.>> Gosh, that is I can't it is kind of crazy. It is the last one of the year.So, I just I'll I'll go along with that as well and just thank staff for a greatyear and thank the council another year. Got another year coming up here forsure. So, looking forward to 2026. >> Yeah, I just want to thank everybody inthe city, staff, council, mayor. Um, it's my first full year on council and Iappreciate everybody being very patient with me while I learn and drink from afire hose here. This has been very eye opening and I have a ton more respectfor everybody that works in the city and who's on the council. This is a it's atough job. So, I appreciate everybody for being patient. Thank you. So, youdidn't respect us prior to this >> staff reports.>> Yeah. So, I just want to thank um Sergeant Ty Jacobson. He um was able toprovide some training for our staff on personal safety and then awareness inour building. And I think it was uh impressive the turnaround, the ask thatwe asked of him together and with that partnership withthe sheriff's office. Um even though we're a contract city, it really feelslike um there are law enforcement departments. So that that went well. Thestaff really appreciated that. Um and then as well as our employee engagementcommittee, they continue to um find ways for us to engage and have a little bitfun. um at work. Um the most recent um activity was gingerbread housedecorating. So that was a hit. >> Was there a winner?>> I wasn't here, was there? Who won >> again?First time she won. >> Oh, wait. No, it was>> it was >> Oh, it was your daughter. Okay.>> It was over lunch. So, they brought their lunches and we did it duringlunch. >> A planner one. Style>> Chief No, >> you guys moved around tonight.>> Trust me, I'm >> honestly kind of thrown up.>> Jennifer did. >> I know you got to talk a lot. You gotanything more to say? >> Um, I probably should point out so withthe new software, thank you again, council, for the new software. We'll belaunching that in January. There will be um a revision to utility bills. Um, sothose will be going out in an envelope now. So, if everybody could kind of keepan eye out for that and tell your neighbors. Um, and then there will be anoption to sign up for paper lists now. Um, and there will be a new paymentsystem, but we're not forcing people over to the new P payment system until2027. So, plenty of time to trans. >> So, you're saying it in an envelope asopposed to the postcard, correct, that we get currently. Okay.>> Correct. So, just a change in in how it looks and I know how the mail piles get.We just want everybody to keep an eye out.>> Right. Miss Dena, >> no report.>> No report. >> No report.>> No report. >> Nothing further.>> Council. >> All right. With that, we will agend themeeting at 8:56.