got to walk past got get if like is it usually bigger bottles bottles all right you all ready as I'll ever be all right we'll go and call to order the City of Lake Elmo Planning Commission meeting for Wednesday November 13th uh 2024 uh first item is to please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you very much uh before we go to item two just uh uh one item of business here uh commissioner Dean has resigned from the commission we want to thank him for his time uh on the Planning Commission um which anybody listening in the audience or at home that means we do have an opening available for everybody with uh within the commission that means our Quorum is now three three is required for Quorum uh with that I item two is to approve this evening's agenda which is approval of our minutes uh three public hearings the new and unfinished business uh wrapping up with some communication updates I move to approve the agenda for the November 13th meeting second go ahead uh motion by uh commissioner s second by uh commissioner re to approve the agenda all those in favor please say I I uh motion passes unanimously uh third item is to approve the minutes from our previous meeting of October 28th 2024 any edits alterations comments have a motion to approve I move to approve the minutes from October 28th 2024 second motion by commissioner Bing seconded by commissioner style to approve the minutes all those in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none motion passes unanimously uh moving on to item four again we have three public hearings this evening uh the first here is on the Royal Golf conditional use permits and a we'll hear from City staff then applicant and then we'll open up for a public hearing thank you Mr chair the applicant for tonight's application is Royal development Incorporated the property is located just off off of 20th Street the property is currently Zone Golf Course Community with a PUD overlay and I will note part of the parcel is also within the Shoreland overlay and it is guided in the city's comp plan as Golf Course the property is the former 3M Tartan Park and was redeveloped to include existing golf facilities in addition to single family residential homes there are three requests before you tonight the first is for a clubhouse expansion which is required from the Pud resolution in 2017 the second is for an outdoor recreation facility cup for two pickle ball courts and the third is for a variance to increased impervious surface within the golf course Community zoning District so I have some photos for you the left is a schematic of The Proposal cup request the blue box indicates the clubhouse expansion the red box is the pickle ball courts and the right is an aerial image of where the site sits um in relationship to the larger parcels and then the single family homes so diving deeper into the cup request the clubhouse cup is for expanding their existing Clubhouse facility this facility was built um back when the property was 3M Tartan Park the addition is going to include uh Administration space offices a golf simulator for lessons and a shell for a restaurant facility and again a cup is required for the 2017 approval the impervious surface added with this request is just over 2,000 square ft and the building area is 5400 since it has a second level reviewing the pickle ball cup their request is to again add two pickle ball Courts for membership use the C is required for an outdoor recreation use in the GCC zoning District so that is why you're seeing a cup tonight uh the proposal should not generate substantial traffic although there are multiple access points for people traveling by vehicle or other modes of transportation there are landscaping and netting proposed with the fencing to mitigate noise and there's no lighting proposed with this request the pro proposal would also add just shy of 4,000 squ feet of impervious surface and breaking down the variance request the golf course Community zoning District requires 30% impervious surface the property is il legal non-conformity at just uh around 46% and the applicant is proposing to increase at by about 10% to 56.1 3% hard cover the subject property is a little over 10 acres and it is surrounded by prvious golf course which is roughly 182 Acres according to the applicant's narrative so when taken as a whole the golf course's total impervious surface is far below the 30% threshold when taking it literally parcel by parcel a variance is required the function of the golf course requires considering the whole set of parcels the golf course Parcels cannot function as intended without the clubhouse parcel and vice versa and I would like to note that the variance is required in order for the conditional use permits to move forward since they are adding impervious surface the applicant has submitted a parking plan requesting a 20% parking redu reduction due due to the membership resident use by the Royal Golf Course Community residents um the city code requires 375 stalls for the uses within the the site uh the applicant is proposing to do 333 the applicant is not proposing to add or modify any existing parking and there are currently 339 stalls so with the 20% reduction they don't need to amend parking um I will say if the commission doesn't support the 20% % request they have indicated they they would be able to meet that by adding overflow parking to the maintenance parcel which is just North so uh with the approval of the variants and possibly the 20% parking reduction the cups meet the city's 12 standard findings for C uh for cup related to health safety welfare compliant with the zoning district and comp plan compatible with neighborhood and essential character the cups not be creating a hazard or nuisance no additional public cost no additional traffic congestion and no impact to a major uh natural feature and as you are all well aware variances have four criteria that they must meet before they are reviewed for approval the first of those is practical difficulties the applicant has demonstrated that they meet practical difficulties the lot is an existing legal non-conformity in terms of impervious surface and the unique barbell shape which encloses the non-residential activities in the gulf course Community the GCC code does not differentiate between the residential and non-residential or commercial uses of the zoning District in terms of impervious surface although both are required to compose the golf course Community the applicant has proven that they meet unique circumstances the subject property is the location for parking for the surrounding amenities and as such it is necessary for the subject property to contain greater impervious surface the function of the golf course requires the whole set of parcels character of locality should not be impacted uh the property is surrounded by prvious golf course which the subject property provides parking and other amenities for the overall improvy surface increase for the parcel holistically should not alter the essential character of the area and then adjacent properties and traffic should also not be impacted since the property is well buffered by Green Space uh in Open golf course so the application was sent out for agency review we received the following comments the Watershed District indicated that no permit is required the fire department provided their standard comments regarding Drive Lanes parking fire suppression and fire alarms the city engineer provided a comment regarding water main easements the applicant has addressed this on the plan so that condition is or the the comment is no longer uh relevant the landscape architect provided comments on tree preservation and storm water management they also provided a comment in support of the variance request due to the surrounding Green Space and they City staff has added a condition of approval regarding the applicant needing to address tree preservation plan comments and the DNR did not provide a comment staff is recommending conditions of approval for each of the applications the cup for the clubhouse has five conditions of approval the first is standard stating that all necessary permits need to be obtained the second is addressing the landcape architect memo third is that the addition is compatible with the existing design and uh composure of the existing Clubhouse uh the fourth is that any future expansion of the clubhouse would again require a cup Amendment and the fifth is the 12-month expiration which is standard for conditional use permits the pickle ball cup has four conditions of approval the first is again that they need the necessary permits addressing the landscape architect memo the third is that any expansion of the courts fencing or adding lighting would trigger a cup Amendment and lastly that 12 month expiration and then the variance only has two conditions of approval the first is what the variance is for which is 56 uh 31% in previous surface and the 12-month expiration so we did send this out for public hearing we sent it out uh mailing on October 28th and it was published in the local paper on November 1st and we have not received any public comment at this time and with that I have three motions for you because the cup is are contingent on the variant that motion is to go first um and then I have the applicant here tonight if you have any questions for them perfect thank you uh one question just on the variance from or the cup from 2017 that guides the need for the variants on this has we had other variance requests uh seeking impervious surface expansion since the 2017 I couldn't find any but um no they added a pool and fitness center and they had variance for that lot because it didn't have Street Frontage but I'm not aware of any other impious surface variances and then I think you said this already but if couple years down the road they want to expand again it's still another variance doesn't override anything from the 2017 if they want to expand the further yeah they would need a cup Amendment and then they would also need a variance if they're adding impervious surface okay gotcha when you say that the overall in impervious surface is down as a whole is that take into account the homes and the whole development is that where that's coming from I believe that was just reviewing the golf course Parcels okay and I have a question about that so they're they're separate Parcels the clubhouse parking lot pickle ball courts and the golf course is there is that typical I mean is there a reason they're not considered one parcel for the same use I me maybe you don't know that answer but I don't know if I've that I wasn't here when they subdivided it why it was like that um it's designed just the way the lot looks I mean it's really honing in on those those commercial parcel so maybe at the time they were trying to limit expansion of that to me if it was like one parcel I like well you got tons of impervious surface but you know if there's separate Parcels then yeah I can see the need for the variants I don't know that the city would want 30% hard cover over that that's a lot of improv I'm saying why they did it at the time in my mind if if there's somewhere you know some way we could have language that's like yes this impervious service for the clubhouse is okay as long as the golf course stays impervious and if somehow some way they're ever separated then that's rescinded but I don't think we can do that but it's just a thought yeah additional questions perfect uh does the applicant wish to speak no unless you have any questions for me okay do we have any questions for the applicants okay um this is a public hearing for anybody in the audience does anybody wish to speak on this I don't know if you're the other items or not okay okay uh it is still a public hearing so we do need to have a motion to open and close uh we'll entertain those now move to open the public hearing second motion by commissioner styles seconded by commissioner re to open the public hearing all in favor I I oppos opposed hearing none motion passes unanimously public hearings open at 6:43 p.m. again there were no public comments received and nobody in the audience wishing to speak on this and so we can uh entertain a motion to close the public hearing I move to close the public hearing second motion by commissioner B seconded by commissioner Breeze to close the public hearing all in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously and it's still 643 nice uh with that we'll move on to oh um and when will this go to city council December 3rd okay perfect and you're welcome to stay you're welcome to leave as well would you like to vote on it's a good call SP a minute I'm just I'm just well in the in the for expediency I moved to recommend approval of the royal development imperious surface variance request based on the findings of fact and condition conditions presented in the staff report second uh motion by uh commissioner s uh second by commissioner reze uh to move to recommend the variant request uh any additional comments gentlemen I think it's pretty straightforward I mean it makes sense um given that information I think all of us do not want over more impervious surface than needed but in this case I mean it's meeting with within the Realms and I think it's good yeah I like I like that uh the golf course can't exist without the clubhouse and the clubh can't exist without the golf course so they kind to me they go hand inand and there's plenty of Imperia surface on the on the golf course so for that reason I'm in favor of it I'd have to agree with the fact that I don't like the idea of more impervious surfaces um love to see one of those Porous concrete slabs so that it's more perious but I can't control that um so um as much as I don't want to see it I can't argue with it I think City staff outlined pretty well um how it meets uh the characteristics that we need to so an agreeance as well uh so again we have a motion uh on the table to recommend approval of the Improv service variance all those in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none uh the first motion passes unanimously we have two more there I move to recommend approval of the royal development outdoor Athletic Facility conditional use of P permit request for pickleball courts based on the findings of fact and conditions presented in the staff report second um motion by commissioner syles second by commissioner ree again anything additional to add nickel ball is the is the rage right now so everyone seems to want to have it so it would makes sense that they would add it here I love the fact that uh the Royal is is continuing to improve rather than just staying stagnant so appreciate that I mean it's adds more amenities to our city and I think it's a great great idea so all right uh again the motion is to recommend approval uh for the pickle all courts all those in favor of please say I I opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously and finally our third motion I move to recommend approval of the royal development conditional use permit request for the expansion of the clubhouse based on the findings of fact and conditions presented in the staff report second motion by commissioner B second by commissioner style to recommend approval uh of the cup requests for the expansion of the clubhouse additional comments discussion I mean follows that everything we've done so right yeah continue to make it better correct Perfect all right again uh voting to recommend approval all those in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously and now this will go to the city council December 3rd perfect thank you and that concludes item 4 a for this evening we'll move on to item 4 B uh which again is another public hearing this one on our landscape ordinance uh zoning text amendments Sophia do I need to advance it those slides okay great um well thank you for taking the time to uh hear us out tonight um we at H KGI have been in our role as the city's landscape architect for a little bit under two years now and um in that time we've had the opportunity to both review a lot of development plans and also inspect a lot of the existing developments are happening in the community um as a result of that work um we have undertaken a uh number of changes to both the tree preservation and Landscaping ordinance in an effort to uh yield a um better tree and Landscaping installation product for all of these new developments that are happening in the community there are significant and repeated challenges that we're seeing pretty universally across most developments and so what we're bringing forward to you today is our hope to get ahead of some of those issues um and to put some more teeth in the ordinance to help us um get healthy landscapes in the community let's see oh it's a Mac and I don't know what I'm doing oh yeah sorry God apologies uh it's my first day um all right so uh summary of what we're here to talk about today is uh an amendment to the tree preservation ordinance uh amendments to the Landscaping ordinance and then two um supporting documents the Minnesota Department of Transportation standard specifications and details and then the landscape inspection resources so I'll walk you guys through each one of these individually please if there are questions at any time feel freee to interrupt me okay um so the tree preservation ordinance um we have this to preserve and protect uh to the extent practical the maximum number of significant and specimen trees within the community why why do we have it we want to protect our trees they're valuable resources to the community and they often take decades to replace um sometimes centuries if you're talking about Oaks or some of the other large mature trees um this is a continuation of the tree preservation oversight that we're already implementing for the plan review um so this is really an effort to put some more teeth behind the in the field um inspection work that were um uh now being asked to perform to ensure that the tree preservation that's happening on the development planning side is actually being implemented in the field um and then the third task is really to implement um um the tree preservation or to integrate sorry the tree preservation ordinance with some of the dot standards that we're uh bringing forward um I'm going to walk you through the what we felt were the substantive changes to um the code there are a a number of um copy edit type changes in there as well um that we felt like we could make since we're already going through the amendment process to just kind of ADD some clarity but um this is really kind of the meat um so uh the changes clarify the purpose and reinfor reinforce that tree preservation is a requirement um there are two real operative statements in the in the code section here that I've included and that's best effort and maximum amount so during our development plan review We Go From sketch plan all the way through uh build product and um we have a substantial degree of opportunity to save or or to provide input to developers on tree preservation early in that process um and then guide that work or provide input to that work as we kind of move through uh the development plan review until we ultimately get to an improved plan so um our intent is to have some early intervention um in in the Pro in the development plan review to Ure sure that we're identifying trees that we feel like can be preserved given the intent of the development um instead of just buling the whole thing and kind of star from scratch um this also introduces the Dot's tree protection and preservation standards the Minnesota Department of Transportation is um in our industry is really viewed as a um industry standard for uh tree preservation and for land landscaping and they're pretty close to universally um familiar standards with most of the contractors that perform this type of work in the state um just given the amount of work that the dots um Contracting year-to-year you know nurseries and landscapers tend to follow those guidelines because they want to be able to participate um in those projects um so some of the specifics of those protection and preservation standards is guidance around watering uh protection fencing root cutting drip line protection and pruning inspection requirements insurity release so um I included this because we are going to inspect the uh tree protection before construction starts and then we will continue to ensure that that tree protection remains in place until construction is complete um it's best practice to keep material storage to keep equipment um and to keep traffic out of the drip line of trees um even with the red snow fence you would be surprised at how frequently that's not followed um and so part of our role now is to ensure to do spot checks um and to ensure it early on that those interventions are in place as they were shown in the improved development plan uh trees planted as part of the replacement fall under the same warranty um as the Landscaping requirements so I we've had a couple instances where there was some confusion about whether or not uh trees planted as part of the tree preservation were on a separate track we just added some language to communicate that essentially all of the Landscaping when it goes in as part of the development is on the same warranty um and then just um more some administrative language uh to better align with the state board's um language around lure for uh our profession the Landscape Architects I'm going to pause here to see if there are any questions on tree preservation before I move forward so just for clarity there because I see under item C10 we strike out warranty requirement it's still there under item e where we talk about so that's that's the indication there that everything's going under cor correct and we what we did was we moved both the warranty and and um Financial Security language in the same chunk of the code so those two are pretty integral to one another and we felt that taking the warranty specifics out of the tree preservation section and then moving it to the Landscaping portion made the most sense though that we didn't have redundancies in the two sections that way it can be kind of confusing if it's in multiple spots so say it once and say it as you intend it is kind of the approach thank you any other questions great Landscaping ordinance um so the intent here is to clearly communicate City standards and inspection practices to increase installation success and long-term performance we hate being the landscape police it's not that I dislike the job it's that it's really frustrating because I think we all at the end of the day want a quality product in the ground um it's really a matter in our opinion of educating the contractors earlier on in the process I think what we're finding is that developers are often hiring contractors on and there isn't a lot of clarity in terms of what the community standards are that they are to follow so they're coming in and Performing these jobs as they would another project and it's not aligning with the city standards and so there's a disconnect in knowledge there and our hope is with the landscape ordinance revisions and then some of the supporting documentation which I'll get into in a second um that we can catch them early before stuff goes in the ground and get ahead of lot of that stuff so that ultimately we are able to do inspections and approvals um with more ease and get better products in the ground long term all right so the why um so some of this I already covered but contractors aren't clearly understanding project requirements initial installations aren't being complet completed correctly so they're not following the city's current planting details common problems with high levels of occurrence so we're seeing the same problems over and over and over again sometimes in the same development um Landscapes Landscaping isn't being watered or maintained adequately and that's in the context of the City's watering restrictions developments are requiring multiple reinspection there are a number of developments this year alone where we've been out there two three four times um to address issues uh warranty and inspection time frames are admittedly unclear and then the city standard details do not have supporting specifications um as a construction industry standard and I'm apologies if you guys already know this but drawings and specifications work hand and glove to communicate uh the design intent so drawings kind of show you the what and the where and and the specifications give you the standards that apply to those um to those drawings so we were not able to despite the fact there are specifications referenced in the city's current planting details we were not able to find the city's Landscaping specifications we're fairly confident that they don't exist um and so we are suggesting that the city move to the do's planting details and and the standard specifications because everything is very thoroughly researched and backed by science and it's also um very well integrated so the details and the specifications are heavily reviewed and work hand and glove with one another with no gaps all right um so the code amendments to the landscape section uh plans installation and inspection changes uh we are uh asking for some changes to the plan requirements to improve readability in the depiction of locations and types of landscaping that's principally to support our inspections um and then that same item the requirement for contextual information such as grading utilities and easements that that also goes to that same um need so we need to have accurate plans that depict not only the Landscaping but also the other contextual stuff so that we understand you know whether a tree might be in an easement um or if there are utility conflicts or other things like that standards installation and maintenance um so again circling back to the DOT compliance this just points the developer to the requirement to use the dot standard planting details and specifications um there's a new requirement and this in our opinion I think is going to head off a lot of these issues to have a pre-installation conference before before any of the Landscaping goes in the ground we're going to have a checklist that they have to review we're going to meet them on site we're going to review the landscaping material before it goes in the ground and then they're going to demonstrate to us that they know how to follow the planting details they're going to do some some prototype installation for us that says this is how we're going to do it throughout the site that way when we come back and we find things that are incorrect and they say well we didn't know that they there's there's no way around that um and then uh the the Landscaping checklist I I touched on a little bit as well so just ensuring that they've reviewed and understand the Landscaping checklist that checklist is really just a cheat sheet so that they understand all the different code requirements that they need to follow to gain acceptance acceptance is where we all want to be at the end of the inspection process um and then continuation um that's same uh administrative change to the licensing language and then a slight adjustment to the trage in utility easements to not allow planting in or within 5T that's really just to account for tree growth so if we're putting stuff right on utility lines especially in the case of evergreen trees which you're going to end up with as those goofy lob sided trees that have all the branches sheared off on one side um and it it avoids any ambiguity about whether or not it's right on that easement line warranty insurity changes um a clarification that the warranty time frame is at least 2 years um that it may extend if there is a failure to comply or perform any of the recommendations that come from our inspection work um the warranty begins and is complete only only when all Landscaping all Landscaping has reached acceptance there's no partial acceptance there's no partial shity release um we have encountered many can we just wait and see approaches to um accepting landscaping and typically what I will tell the contractor or the developers yes you can wait and see but your shorty will not be released and this project will not be accepted until the Landscaping is brought to the standard that the community requires and that you agree to in the development agreement um meeting landscape requirements includes responding to all replacement and correction recommendations for the Landscaping often what we're seeing with our memorandums is that The Replacements are being acted upon but all the corrections are kind of being ignored um so just adding a little bit more forceful language behind um both of those needing to be performed uh warranty insurity changes just a continuation of that so uh this is a pretty significant change in the past the city has asked us to do initial perform initial inspections inspections at the one-ear Mark and inspections at the twoyear Mark um the challenge with that is the way the city holds the shity is there's a I believe a 75% release at that initial acceptance phase and 25% at the final acceptance phase so there there is no leverage on that onee Mark other than the development agreements um language and the code language and so what we're finding is it's just really get difficult to get developers and contractors to consistently act on that one-year requirement and it's not an industry standard that the it's not um typical to uh approach new construction that way typically you do a punch list so you get everything right at the beginning and then you do a warranty check at the end and whatever is failing is replaced um so we're recommending again in the interest of moving more towards uh standard that the uh construction industry is familiar with that we go with these two the bookended approach that's also going to allow us to spend more time in that initial phase which is really the crucial moment right right so being out there providing more oversight when this stuff is going in is in our opinion going to yield a better product um in the end and so if there are Community concerns about uh Landscaping in a specific Community um that get voiced to City staff we are certainly happy to come out and do an inspection and write prepare a memo as needed to to occur from initial acceptance all the way through the warranty period but that will not be the standardized approach um and then that developers responsible for notification to the city that the work has been performed that they have 60 days to perform that work um I believe the previous standard was 30 days and there's some some seasonality components with the dot specifications and planting details typically they um they have kind of bookended planting Seasons to remove installation during that kind of dry uh summer stress period any questions on those revisions no looks good great thank you um I'm going to cover the dot standards at a very high level um if you guys have any additional questions um happy to answer them here tonight or as a follow up later on um so as I stated before we're um recommending that the city shift to the Dot's planting standards and specifications um because they're thoroughly researched they're an industry standard and they're integrated those are the principal reasons and then I just included a kind of a St a sample page from those um planting details so they talk about planting time frames pruning processes zones soil preparation um and then there's a lot of additional supp supplementary information in the specifications all right this is the one I'm the most excited about because I think it's going to make a difference and that's what I care about that's what we care about um so the landscape inspections our intent is to establish a shared understanding and to ensure early compliance with Community landscape requirements and standards nobody's happy when they have to come back out and reperform work we hate it staff hates it and the contractor hates it so this is an effort to make sure that we're all on the same page from day one um all right so Landscaping schedule um the before so this is to ensure that the contractor and the developer are clear on these these um items there are two acceptance Milestones um initial warranty start and final the end of the warranty plant quality installation watering and maintenance requirements all must be followed plant locations must be staked reflecting the approved development plan I would say almost universally we go out and inspect developments that are some nowhere near planted as they were designed and there are typically some adjustments in the fuel to avoid utilities or uh field changes but we're seeing big changes that are being just kind of guessed at by contractors that don't really meet the intent of the of the original Landscaping plan um and to you know to replant 50 trees or to have some additional requirement for them to do some planting where it was intended to originally is um a substantial heartache for the contractor it costs time it costs money and often you end up with a poor product cuz now they're irritated and so we want to we want things in the ground in the correct correct location right from the start um and then just understanding what it's going to take to obtain that initial acceptance and start the warranty clock so that they can get their first round assurity release um during so uring the contractor and developer understand that mul Rings weed control um um planting Corrections watering and other maintenance needs are ongoing requirements throughout the warranty period not just The Replacements it's not just throw it in the ground and come back and replace it in two years when it's dead it needs to look right from day one through day or through year two um erosion control and ground cover must be established and maintained continually this is another pretty Universal issue we're seeing where sod seed ing Prairie restoration we'll have tire tracks we'll have huge areas of erosion we'll often have damage from the replacement work that we've asked the contractor to do originally where they don't come back and correct the skid steer marks or or erosion that they've caused um so it's critical that they understand that it's not just the trees and the shrubs it's everything on the ground that needs to be buttoned up before um we can give them acceptance um and that all memo recommendations are required to address in the field landscape inspection findings um so just a quick rundown of the checklist we cover schedule we cover irrigation requirements um I'll get into this a little bit more so typically if they do not have a automated irrigation system in place the requirement is that they need to submit a watering plan that says here is the do's threshold identified in the specifications we just talked about and here's how we are going to meet those if we do not receive the rainfall that we think we're going to get you know based on average weather patterns um phasing so this is an effort for some of the larger developments to be able to split the Builder and developer Landscaping into two chunks that can be inspected separately that will will start their warranty clocks on different time frames but it will not result in a shity release until both of those are initially accepted um staking we talked about a little bit tree stock the opportunity for us to do in that pre-installation meeting an inspection of the tree materials to understand is it healthy is it um in a nursery quality form so you know does it have a dominant Le or does it have symmetry in the canopy is it free of disease is the are the tree roots um you know non- girdling or is there a bunch of soil piled on top of the root mass that shouldn't be there these are all things that we'll check for um as part of that examination um and then the example installations that I talked about just observing their crew do a couple of installations so that we're all on the same page of what the standard is uh during an after installation so again irrigation and water there must be a plan in place prior to landscape installation or watering must be done on site and scheduled watering is probably one of the biggest failure points for these new landscape installations I don't know if you guys remember what the last three years of weather were like here but it was the two driest years followed by one of the wetest and then a very unusual dry spell kind of at the end right so it's been difficult for them I acknowledge that but having a watering plant in place I think is going to help mitigate some of those um issues and it's also going to ensure that they get paid to do watering I I can recall at least two instances talking with contractors in developments where I was told we asked to water these the developer refused to pay for it so again if this is mandated in the code and we have uh metrics by which we're actually measuring this it's more enforcable and and we have something to point back to timing um this is taken out of the DOT requirements so deciduous plantings can occur from April 7th to the June to June 30th and then again from August 25th to November 1st Evergreens is April 7th to May 17th and then August 25th to September 15 that's really an effort to avoid that hot dry summer stretch I will say there are going to be some situations where we might allow a contractor to do some Replacements in that interim period if we feel like they have a plan in place to keep the plants watered and and um and and reduce their stress but the the standard will be these time frames um preparation of as built plans so this just ensures the accuracy of install ation and inspections this is more of a um what's the word we have this here just in case things the staking process isn't followed um ultimately what we need is a plan that's accurate so that we can go out and inspect trees where they are um so this is putting the onus on the developer and the contractor to provide us with a plan that's accurate um and then the maintenance replacement and correction schedule um requirement to be performed within 60 days um and then to close things out um just some information about warranty uh the warranty schedule so um providing some more information about the initial acceptance uh requirements and timing and then the final acceptance requirements and timing just to ensure that they understand that um the release of their Financial Security is contingent upon acceptance I know this is a lot of redundancy but we've we want to um overc communicate the expectations early on um so that everybody's clear on what Lake Elmo standard is moving forward um so I'll I'll ask if there are any remaining questions and then ask you to make a motion to approve do we so by adopting the min OTA uh dot landscape are we looking at having City staff or individuals in the in the city become certified landscape Specialists through them I that was actually a question that we had posed to staff um we have certified landscape Specialists on staff I used to have a certification I unfortunately let mine laps but um we're all very familiar with those standards um I do see some benefit to having the contra rting side more familiar with that U we had bounced the thought back and forth of whether or not to make that a requirement ultimately it felt a bit too constraining um but it might be a resource honestly that we can direct our development Community to um ahead of the actual construction portion of the project um you know in our experience we found that to get plans approved developers are often amable to some additional requirements um beyond the development agreement and so suggesting that their contractor has this certification as an outside of the r of possibility okay um and then on the other one because we've always talked about the two years I like the wording of at least two years is that do you find that still to be sufficient enough given again as you mentioned kind of the chaos of the last I mean you'd always like more right um two years is typically about as long long as you're going to get on a ex um a site work Improvement that's like not you know you utility or underground type um so that was really um an effort to align with the do standards typically one year is most common okay um so we felt having that second year aligns with the do standard um and maintains the current current city standard what we're seeing now in the community is some of these developments are into like year three year four CU they're just not meeting the requirements um and so we want to avoid that too that's too much Demand on the contractor and so we're really doing this to to seek a balance to get the thing in right correctly so at year two we can come out there's some minor corrections to be made and we can all move on with a smile on our face okay that makes sense and then the last thing in this might be for City staff in the amendment itself item C it looks like the numbers are duplicated for number one it just as it gets written out of draft form just as adds up that's good that's all the questions I had anybody else has this similar plans been done in other cities and if so what is the success or not success the do yeah and specifications yeah um so what's the best way for me to answer this it's very typical for roadway projects that have a state funded portion um I don't know that we've seen it adopted by another community in the metro area but to be frank there's not a lot of planting standards out there in terms of specifications and detail details we found the the fact that you guys have planting details at all was something that I was isn't common um you know use the city of Maple Grove as an example they don't have planting details um in their standard specifications so um but understanding that you guys are growing at the rate you're growing you know you're u a community that's you know principally undeveloped yet I think it's important to have a a understood industry standard in place um that communicates clearly and um completely the requirements to get successful Landscaping installed we're we're using these because there's so much research behind it the dot has been refining these details for years and years and years to get a better product um and so that's ultimately why we defaulted these we often use these in our own projects for municipalities and adapt them so um one thing I also forgot to mention is we're also in the process right now drafting a set of special Provisions special Provisions modify the dot standards um so the standard details and the standard specifications so if there is information in those details that doesn't fit the community we can change that language without having to go through the full ordinance amendment process it's more of a technical um facing document okay thank you what happens if you have not been in on a project from day one but maybe they haven't even broke ground yet or they just are do can any of this can you come in and oops help out with any of the final or no it has to be from day one um and Sophia you might help me answer this one but what I will say is there's no reason we can't implement the the checklist and the pre-installation requirement I honestly think and we've heard this from a number of contractors after our inspection work because they wanted that right um and so I think we can Implement that regardless of timing I know just from a code implementation standpoint and when this becomes effect in in effect um there's going to be some constraints there and you could probably speak better to that than I can yeah so any development that has already been through the planning process they have an approved landscape plan that would proceed as is the code would apply to new projects um but HGI in their checklist the implementation revisions could be incorporated now even if the project was approved prior what if they there was like a subdivision that gets added on so we you know the old plot was approved and then there's a subdivision that gets approved later is that does it still go under would that apply to this or each addition is required to have its uh an independent landscape plan so it would need to meet the code at the time got it okay thank you additional questions after the tree staking is H KGI doing an inspection of the the staking to yes we will review the staking to make sure it's accurate okay yeah I just didn't see that language in your head maybe I missed it but it was you know the developer the contractor our intent would be to have that staking done as part of the before the pre-installation conference and we would perform that inspection at the time of the installation conference same with the mockups for two types of trees and stuff like yeah anything else okay this uh is a public hearing sopia did we have any public comment we did not okay uh so we'll need a motion to open the public hearing move to the public hearing at 7:23 second uh motion by commissioner re second by oh sorry motion by commissioner s second by commissioner bre uh all those in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none motion passes and the public hearing is now open at 7:23 p.m. I was trying to delay it trying to delay it uh do we have any any body in the audience that wish to speak on this one okay uh so again uh with nobody in the audience and no uh copies received beforeand we can entertain a motion to close the public hearing motion to close the public hearing I second motion by commissioner uh re seconded by commissioner BR to close the public hearing all in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously and the public hearing is closed at 7:24 uh there's a motion on the screen there for us we can entertain I recommend approval of the proposed text amendments as presented by City staff second uh motion by commissioner styles seconded by commissioner ree uh recommending approval uh we'll open for discussion before taking a vote I think this is good um I think you just looking in our development there was questions and this answers some of those questions it's clearly defined um and I do think it'll put the developers you not on notice but let them know know where what the plans are I think before it was kind of wishy-washy and so I think this clears up that wishy-washiness as a resident of the City of Lake ELO I think this is awesome um thanks for being the landscape police I've seen it happen in my backyard it just keeps getting better um so I appreciate that as a developer and contractor by day I think this is really stringent so um we don't see something this you know robust every day however I do appreciate the fact that it's going to be upfront you know it's going to be in the in the landscape review it's going to be um have a pre-construction meeting I I would encourage the fact that when we're when you are reviewing the plans making sure that the Landscape Architects for the developers and the contractors are putting all of these requirements right on the drawings so that when the contractor buys the Landscaping package the landscapers have that all included too so the more things that can be communicated every level down the easier it is you know the money's there then if it's bought out right away instead of like oh this needs a 2-year warranty well that's this much more money so um I do really appreciate how upfront everything is going to be so I think this is great thanks for you I like your presentation too the examples of all the crappy installations great like that so as everyone knows everyone here knows I am the one that's always begging for tree preservation so I loved this um and I also just everybody being on the same page from day one catch any problems early it just alleviates a lot of headaches later so yeah I'm in agreement the way I look at this is it it it provides Mass uh mass in the sense of an acronym where it it provides a more measured approach for how we're going to be doing landscaping in the city keeps people accountable it's scalable so as the city continues to grow but then also most importantly there's sustainability put behind it so I'm in favor of this uh recommendation do you have any further discussion we'll go Ahad and take a vote then again it's to recommend approval of the proposed text amendments as presented by City staff all those in favor please say I I I opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously uh and this will now go to city council also on the third December 3rd December 3rd perfect thank you for the opportunity thank you appreciate it uh that concludes item 4 B for this evening we'll move on to item 4 C uh this is our last public hearing this evening it's the Capital Improvements plan it's on the desktop it's not open where did you put it uh right hand second one down there it is thank you all right well thank you Mr chair and Commissioners my name is Clarissa Hadler I'm the finance director for the city here um I will be reviewing the 2025 to 2034 Capital Improvement program CIP can you hear me okay yeah okay um this is of course a very quick summary there's a 180 page report um in your packet with lots of details so um we're just going to start with what a capital Improvement program actually is so a CIP is a multi-year capital expenditure plan for a city's infrastructure streets parks and Utility Systems as well as Vehicles equipment and public buildings last year Lake Elmo moved from a 5-year CIP to a 10-year CIP so um if you guys are here for a few years you will likely see this plan continue to grow so we're just really getting a much better idea of what our long-term needs are for the city um the Minnesota land planning act requires that the implementation plan portion of the comprehensive plan include a CIP for major infrastructure needs for a 5-year period again we've gone to a 10-year period um our CIP includes capital projects that cost at least $25,000 and have a useful lifespan of five years or longer um the CIP uh outlines the various funding sources and priorities of each project so so some of our funding sources are debt issuance special assessments um various existing funds throughout the City municipal state aid and grants and donations um and then each plan or each project is ranked by priority um those priorities can of course change year to year so our uh 2025 through 34 CIP includes 149 projects totaling about 162 $2 million um if you look at our pie chart here the dark red um the there's actually bright red building uh is so small it you can't see it in the pie chart and then the orange those are admin um building and fire um and then the vast majority everything from the light yellow all the way around to the blue are Public Works type projects and we'll get into more of that in a little bit here so admin and finance has just a couple projects um the city council is looking at a land purchase at the moment and then um my department is in need of some U more Advanced Financial software which will be building in some efficiencies within our department um the building department just has uh four vehicles that they replace on a seven-year replacement schedule and then the fire department has lots of very large very expensive trucks and equipment so the Public Works to departments um are broken down so there's the general public works department which is streets and general maintenance Parks water sewer and storm water and for the purposes of this report and for this evening I've broken those um Public Works project types into um four groups vehicles and Equipment the Public Works building parks and trails and then infrastructure infrastructure then is further broken down by streets water sewer and storm water really quick again in the pie chart you'll notice vehicles and Equipment the Parks Building parks and trails these are all these slivers up here and then the infrastructure projects go from Orange and again all the way up through dark green so by far infrastructure is our largest Investments um vehicles and Equipment has 31 items totaling $3.5 million and those are funded typically from trade-ins the vehicle replacement fund general fund and the water fund Public Works building this is um brand new um this year is we're starting to add projects for that Public Works building over on ideal Avenue is that sound right everyone um So currently it just has five projects totaling $310,000 I will also add at this time um this building so this building is brand new we haven't started the CIP on this building that's going to be one of our big projects for next year so that's kind of this like continuing to add to this list uh parks and trails has 29 projects totaling just under $5 million projects are reviewed and adopted by The Parks Commission annually and includes anything from playground equipment Replacements Trail and park additions and Pavilion Replacements and then getting into infrastructure so again vast majority maity of our um expenditures Capital expenditures come from infrastructure 69 projects totaling around $150 million and largely within streets and water uh Street projects include City projects um annual reconstruction as well as County projects with City cost share water projects include um some water treatment plants to address past those will be funded uh by mpca the 3M settlement funds and it also includes the water portion of Street reconstruction so as you're reviewing their CIP you'll actually see like um Public Works project 101 um matches up with water project 101 so there's the street project side of it and the Water Project side of it and then well pump and Tower maintenance um continuing with infrastructure we have sewer project projects including um SP the sewer portion of Street reconstructions as well as some sewer oversizing which happens during developments and then storm water projects include some Regional drainage improvements as well as storm water reuse projects so our next steps are to hold the public hearing um happy to have any discussion answer any questions and then um I would ask that you make a recommendation to the city council on the compatibility with a comprehensive plan um and then this does get adopted by the council in December and there's your motion perfect thank you do we have uh any questions for clissa right Clarissa what's the vehicle for budgeting a lot of these sewer water Street projects over the next 10 years when you say vehicle so is it are we are we relying on um like engine to give us you know kind of some cost projections for you know what we need to budget for some of these projects that we'd like to do I assume I mean know Public Work the city engineer provides a list his list um all of the department heads um provide their lists to us and we just input it into the the software um so the city engineer reviews his um sort of ongoing plan he'll readjust it depending on whatever is happening so we've made a lot of changes this year and actually some of the projects that are listed in water um are are currently sort of up in the air we're not really sure what's going to happen um with those because of the funding it looks like we should probably take them out I just didn't want to right away until we need for sure um but yes he does provide all of that information um and I guess this this is probably a bigger question for then for this group but is there any talk of a city of Lake ELO police force that we should begin to budget for at all maybe you don't know that answer at all but it's just I see the fire department on here and I'm like well this is a 10-year plan we're growing just didn't know if that was talked about Al so maybe that's that's a question for another time I guess uh one of the things I remember this brought up there was a few questions around does it make sense to go from the five to the 10e plan uh one of your earlier bullet points said we are getting better visibility that's true we're seeing okay yes absolutely um and the the the the the good and the bad part of having the plan is you know what you're needing to f right and so then you have to come up for the money with the money for it so um it has been very eye opening to go to the tenure and then and you know our software we're essentially inventorying it so we know sort of behind the scenes what's coming even after that 10 years um it's just for these purposes we presented for that 10e period is that uh 2 million plus fund for the fire department is that latter one replacement I think it was like in 2034 but it was like a $2 million expenditure I'm assuming that's for the main ladder truck that sounds correct in the wrong business I need to sell fire trucks with the 10 year now this is very basic question but with the 10-year plan then does that allow you to when you're seeing some of the I'm going to take a real small thing like the parks that need to be improved does that allow you a better scope of okay so maybe when a subdivision comes to before us and they choose not to put a park in they choose the dollar amount instead does this better able is this easier to look at to say o maybe we need to increase those rates um you know that's a very small example but something like that with a 10-year plan is that easier to say oh we're going to have to start increasing some things here and there I think so um you know the more that we have um sort of this you know asset inventory um which is really what we're building here it's a it's a it's a it's an investment plan but it's also an inventory of what we have um that we're building out and so part of our analysis has been um you know what is the and I think actually there might be a report in there um regarding sort of the the uh um 10-year funding of the park dedication fund so we have the um vehicle replacement fund and we've got that mapped out for 10 years there's Park dedication fund so we know based on some you know very educated uh guesses by by Sophia and and Jason about you know what our development looks like obviously that can change with the market and oh without a doubt I just wondered if that made it easier to say oh yeah we are going to need to increase this or whatever because you're looking at it yeah and and actually um so our software that we use for this even upgraded this year and has provided um some more tools for that exactly and some better reporting and that's been great too oh good that kind of brings up a good question like do we ever think about having pushing developers to have a preference of doing a park dedication fund versus in the city's comp plan we have Park search area so if they're within that usually we recommend land um but the 10year plan does help us think about it more realistically I mean we' love land everywhere but you also want quality services as well yeah okay interesting makes sense to me do we have any questions okay this is a public hearing so again we'll need to uh motions to open and close I move to open the public hearing second motion by commissioner B second by commissioner re to open the public hearing all in favor please say I I I oppos hearing none the uh motion passes and the public hearings open at 7:39 p.m. take it there's nobody in the audience rushing the stage and no digital comments either so we can entertain a motion to close move to close the public hearing second motion by commissioner styles uh second by commissioner Breeze to close the public hearing all in favor please say I I opposed hearing none motion passes and the public hearing is now closed at 7:40 p.m. we have a motion on our screens there for the Commissioners I move to recommend to the city council that the 2025 to 2034 Capital Improvement program is consistent with the 2040 comprehensive plan second we have a motion by bu second by commissioner Breeze uh to recommend approval of the uh uh CIP discussion points a lot of work it is a lot of work like a lot thanks for thanks for all the work that you've done for me it's uh there's a lot there um and it's important that we try to get our budgets as as close as we possibly can so and I like I like the 10-year plan rather than just the 5year plan too so thanks for all the work that you've done on this yeah I'm glad to hear that the confidence is still high in the 10e because it gives a better better planning I agree oh that's really strange to say 2034 cool additional comments all right hearing none again uh motion on the table is to recommend to the city council that the 2025 20 through 2034 Capital Improvement program is consistent with the 2040 comprehensive plan all in favor of the motion please say hi I all opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously um this again I'm assuming December 3rd to city council or this is actually December 17 what is that whatever the next the second meeting December perfect later in December thank you uh thank you very much that concludes item four for this evening uh we'll move on to item five which is the 2025 Planning Commission work plan all righty so we are looking at the 2025 Planning Commission work plan um Planning Commission has a work plan every year so I'm going to just start off refresh refreshing you with the 2024 plan um you guys checked off a lot of items this year the Planning Commission reviewed the housekeeping amendments back in February uh the Planning Commission reviewed the city sign ordinance and that was adopted in August the opud ordinance amendments were done in October you looked at the CIP about 5 minutes ago um Planning Commission had training in May um the Planning Commission was able to get to two joint work workshops one was in February the other one was just yesterday uh we streamlined and improved policies and procedures with new staff hire the Community Development Department is as of today fully staffed so that is an accomplishment um we transition from permit Works to Cloud permit which has a planning module within it we created educational materials on upcoming developments back in January and we've been updating that quarterly that lives on the city's website and then the last three zoning map amendments code amendments and comp plan amendments you process those when applicants submit applications so then staff drafted the 2025 work plan again using the same formatting with priority levels and the four um plan and sections the items circled the bullet points that are circled are newly added items and the underlined is adjusted existing items so the first one is reviewing housekeeping amendments that staff identified in 2024 uh the a new item is reviewing and implementing cannabis regulations another new item is reviewing the city's Old Village area zoning map and future land use map in relationship to that study we completed earlier this year um we're leaving the CIP on the provide annual Planning Commission training that line should actually move down to hold annual joint Planning Commission and city council work sessions um I bumped that back to annual you guys are welcome to change it it just seemed a little bit more realistic with how things went this year um and then new item is promoting sustainability through Gold Leaf B3 and green step programs Implement an interactive city map for residents uh City staff Fields a lot of calls from residents asking about zoning utilities um all that good stuff so it would be nice to have an interactive map where people can search their own own parcels and then I've left the the same three at the bottom again those are processed when applications come in and so again from the Planning Commission tonight we're looking to see if there's any changes items you want to add or priority levels you'd like to change and then again you do have a joint work shop with City Council in February um so other than the work plan is there anything else the commission would like to discuss with them so I'll bump it back to here there's any questions or ideas questions I can't think of anything that we need to hone in on I mean water is always the Hot Topic but that is that's getting beaten to death I guess but or beaten to clean water I guess I should say um I don't not off the top of my head I don't know if any of you have something that we should address during a joint meeting I think the having the Old Village stuff in there is great to have I think commissioner Ray Camp might be upset there's not a discussion on crosswalks yeah how we get across to Boulevard so but he's not here they can bring that up at the at the worksh yeah it's the workshop well we would be nice if we knew before the workshop um can you tell me a little bit more about the sustainability through Gold Leaf B3 and green steps are these going to be something that we're going to implement into development agreements or just encourage the use of them part of this plan is is where staff is spending their their time so as long as the Planning Commission is supportive of this Mission staff would be spending time implementing that um there's different events that you could host could be development requirements um there's array of an array of items you could use to achieve these these Awards okay screen step the award that you had accepted earlier this year correct we're at four we got all the way to the fifth step but then every year you can re-qualify okay for the fifth step um Gold Leaf is a new program that was implemented or rolled out last year so we're one of I think we're like one of 30 cities that have expressed interest in it um and then B3 is our monitoring for utilities and um meter usage I really like the interactive city map for residents and probably also for developers too because I'm sure you get a lot of calls from developers like hey what's this zoned and what can I try to put here so I think that would be a really useful feature on the city's website yeah I can't think of anything additional a good plan I like it we like all the priority levels is the I mean the Cannabis regulations is in progress and it's I feel like that I mean it's already in progress but I feel like with the oncoming state regulations that it's probably going to be a pretty important Hot Topic MH for us to get our arms around even though I didn't show up to the workshop yesterday it was I learned a lot holy cow it's amazing yeah it was I enjoyed the joint with a city council for things like that so if there's ever a topic such as that where we kind of have to learn as we go could that be like just brought up at another time like we say you know pay the you know ice cream man is coming to town and it's going to require all this kind of stuff maybe the two of you should get together can that just kind of be an on thefly thing if something like that comes up yep I think annual is a baseline you can always do more than that okay yeah okay I guess the only thing in priority level with the old village being a four what's the reasoning that one is it just because we're kind of still waiting on the study um part of it is the amount of staff time it'll take the other part is you're also contingent on met Council met council's timeline and approval so usually one party level one two kind of and three is what staff can do like on their own very quickly and then three four five is there's other dependencies yeah has other parties at play makes sense anything else there right there's a motion for this one I move to recommend approval of the 2025 Planning Commission work plan as presented by staff second motion by commissioner B seconded by commissioner Breeze to recommend approval of the 2025 Planning Commission work plan any additional commentary I appreciate the fact that you are constantly I feel like you are constantly looking at it and you know it's in the Forefront of your mind so I feel like I'm taking your recommendation because you're in the trenches and you know so um I support you and thank you for all your hard work I love you I don't have any conditional comments Perfect all right we'll go ahead and vote again the motion is to recommend approval all those in favor please say I I opposed hearing none the motion passes unanimously thank you Sophia that's uh item five uh last is item six the communication updates I will just stay up here uh so November 6th the city council approved the lake Elma Elementary subdivision variance and conditional use permit um and then just yesterday the city council held that joint workshop with Planning Commission to discuss cannabis and cannabis the draft ordinance is what you will be reviewing at your November November 25th meeting and upcoming meetings November 25th you're going to be talking about cannabis and then December 9th we talk about cannabis then too I don't think so all right let's hope not perfect awesome thank you very much uh that takes us to the end of our agenda for this evening uh so we'll be able to adjourn again as always uh thanks to the city staff for hanging out and preparing uh doing all the work for us Commissioners thanks for taking time out of your evening as well uh and with that we'll go ahead and close the public hearing at 7:50 p.m. thanks everybody thank you good that was that was good that was we're done so you guys have nothing else you want to talk about it's going to be a pretty quick Workshop I'm okay with that but oh sorry you're you guys aren't going to be here you guys talk plan is like they gave up that's why I was trying to think of like something we should talk about but well it's your time now we're passing the also had time we're passing the Reigns to the younger a popular one we talk about is commissioner retention I don't know if you guys are interested in that again but we did that what two years ago or yeah I mean if you start paying again I mean that was you guys haven't gotten paid yet Che we'll make it a short Workshop then for