hello it's so hard for me not to say good morning when I walk in it's all relative I know I know just motherhood is relative default you know good morning same amount of light I guess shortest day of the year Friday yeah it's coming up but Thursday five to six inches of snow really would that be great we'll see what happens wellow I hadn't heard they promise a lot of stuff this is you yeah oh and good okay well who took the picture uh our child yeah yeah yeah yeah okay Norway Norway oh yeah Vikings today oh yeah you're into that sort of thing who are they playing Chicago Bears oh okay so does that mean it'll be a short meeting no we can can do our business as usual we can yell out scores doesn't yeah doesn't start till 730 or so I don't even know if it's on TV I mean it's obviously on TV somewhere well it is 63 6:30 we'll commence call to order our December 16th 2024 Lake Elmo Parks Commission meeting please join in the pledge allegiance by standing pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right next order of business is to approve tonight's agenda anybody wants to make such a motion I move to approve tonight's agenda is there a second second and um with the audio only we should say I just realized we should say who's making the the motion um if you could state that you made the motion your name okay Pat Barrett I made the motion to approve the agenda and who seconded it Mike Elum uh second the motion and from my left to right are you in s i bar I oh gastler ier i s i Elum I that is unanimous we have an agenda for tonight and we'll move on to approving minutes we take a minute to read that over make sure everything is in order if not we could take a motion to amend those minutes Ash can I make a motion to approve the minutes from November you may is there a second there oh sorry second and all those in well again from left to right Ash I ver I castler I I st ey Elum I that is unanimous we've approved a minutes from November 18th 2024 and I don't see anybody in the audience for public comment so we will move on to the agenda item of cly playground thank you chair thank you uh commissioners um part of our plan for 2025 is to review and possibly update the C playground set so apologize you can't see uh presentation here but um the C playground you do have some information in your pocket packet there and I'll just add a little bit to that so um the C playground was initially placed in in uh 1993 it's exceeded that 25 year lifespan that we've kind of set that we've set forth to try to uh to to manage throughout the throughout our playground sets in 2021 we had a community survey which we reviewed C Park uh 90% of those respondents um recommended replacement and again we always talk about the people that did respond to that the low number we did have 90% that say said did recommend that replacement as part of our Parks master plan to uh replacement of this playground set was also recommended during that time too um part of our the staff's recommendations is of this park is to move the playground set to the east so it's currently kind of set in the far I would say far be set in the southwest part of that park next to the woods we're just trying to move it right over the East just a little bit right in that center opening there was a few couple oak trees that have been removed um in the last couple years and so that that kind of opened that area up a little bit that will create a little better viewing area of that Park so it's more visible from both 53rd 53rd Avenue and uh Jam um uh Jam is it Road Road or Boulevard boulard Boulevard so um so just make it a little more viewable in that area as well um staff is uh considering a a trail I did have two options on there we would consider one of the trail options it wouldn't be a perfect Loop but it would come off a uh 53rd and kind of loop right down to the um to the playground set again uh about two years ago we've kind of been trying trying to implement some Ada uh uh compliance with our parks and this would be one way that I think we could could do that is implementing a trail uh with a ramp from the road all the way down to the parking or to our um playground set we would install um uh 45 trees as well uh with this project again would likely be around that playground Set uh just to incorporate some shade in the future uh installing benches I know that was a consideration with our dille and our um uh pebble Park so we would consider that as well um I would leave that open up to the commission of either we want one or two we'd include a picnic table in this area too this park does have a grill so um that is probably one item that is missing from this park is that you know that um that picnic table I didn't hear what your last words one part that's missing a part that's missing probably from that Park is like a a structural picnic table that stays there right so with that I'll open it up for questions or discussion and some of the things I'd like to reiterate would be are there any specific items that you'd like to see in the playground self playground set itself and then are there any other considerations that we could should consider for the park as well when when looking at this project so um I know in the past we looked um we had a prior commissioner that always wanted a um uh a poll right a sliding poll you know or I know in the future as well when we did take down the swing set that was uh something that we got a lot of a lot of calls on I was like when are we going to replace it and we did uh actually bring that forward but it did exceed that CIP limit that we weren't able to do that at that time uh we didn't have it in our budget to pay for and so that's why we brought it back to include that in that project so um staff would recommend uh including a swing set before we did have a a six Place swing set there I we would consider at least the minimum of four uh at this at this site so but I do open that up for comment and questions to uh from the Commission in regards to specific items we'd like to see there or anything else we'd like to add there at this time well I have a question Adam and you kind of set up this question I feel like um has have you your other staff ever looked into like accessible play equipment So Not only would the place structure be accessible via Ada but also uh like more accessible playground equipment itself so that was one thing that was actually brought up when we did the pebble park playground set that one there was actually kind of it was more geared towards that I shouldn't say it was advertised as that but it was accessible for that type of future um I think when talking to a lot of our vendors now there's always aptitudes of these playground set that's having abilities to be adaptive to uh peoples with disabilities um if it be um just accessibility or uh being able to access it um you know to be able to get up onto this uh like a platform and utilize things like that so yeah so as far as a full full um playground set that's just for adaptive um we did not consider this site for that okay okay thank you just can I jump in on that one too because with the moving of the School South uh it would be nice to have something at this park on the North side in other words so one thing I will add as we are considering as in it is in your packet as well is that 5 to 12-year-old I think if we look back when this play gar was in set and look at the manual this one's geared more toward the one that's currently there is geared more towards that four to S but I think they've more standardized those numbers throughout the years um when you do look at our Parks master plan they do say let's be more open and adaptive of like spreading these things around um part of that 2021 survey too did say did talk about um making more things available for teens right so um so that's why we kind of floated that way of going to that 5 to 12 to kind of include them to keep them some things that might be attractive to them as well as still having those things like the swing and um just the maybe some things that those 5-year-olds would use as well in that area um that area itself it might be geared more it's not going to be your brand new um um families coming in there but in a mixture you might have some older um people that have been there for a while in that area if you look at that half mile radius that our Parks Master Pine does look at you might not see the population that you might see downtown or you know a park that's right here but you will see an area that um will be considered uh probably population being older than being younger so I think that's changing yeah I would agree did I've been yeah a new family just moved in this past week on Jamica and um there's other younger families moving in so I I think there'll be more use than there has been in recent years at CLA which is good yeah Adam just clarification on the the location um moving it to the east you we're talking um just several not several feet how many feet would you estimate just so I know where you're at I know it's kind of hard because we don't have the a we look at that opening I would say that openings might be like what uh 75 to 100 yards you agree so I would say splitting that in half so if it was 100 yards we'd be moving it about 50 yards right to the right to the middle of that I just we're still back in that corner just more centering it yep centering it um if this does come live we'll show you what what I'm proposing it is moving it actually to the north a little bit too okay um the the future dimensions of a playground about that size that would incorporate the the safety standards that we have today would probably be about a 50 by 50 similar to what we might have at that we just placed at deontra I think that one's 70 x 50 um but this next one would probably be in that same range about 50 x50 uh concrete apron all the way around but yeah would it would go like just directly to the North okay Northeast a little bit so okay that makes sense I think I'm looking at a map now uh and then the the trail that proposing potentially um as asphalt Trail is that the trail that's already there uh no no so this would be a new Trail we would actually what's already there we'd either improve or um you know if we went on the other side of it it would depend on our vendor um what they would choose to make sure that we could make that ADA compliance that ADA compliance is less than like a 7% grade or there is a percentage that we would have to meet so we would work with him to see which Avenue would um be able to make that that percentage the um easiest so okay because uh on the the map that you had made there's an informal path um on the one side but I I think there is another path on the other side of the playground correct correct correct yep that goes out to so but we're talking about something all altogether different okay thank you that helps but we could eventually um with those new shelters that we're proposing combine the shelter the grill and the bench in a location that would be a possibility too yeah um yeah it's that's a great idea Hank as we as we progress with this as I move as I propose to move that kind of out of that back corner up to the middle that does open up a larger area um in the I say that South End for something that would be similar I just wanted to keep that in the back of our mind um here's another question unrelated to the playground itself um so kle park is non-reserved if you or other staff have any thoughts about the use of the ball field at this particular location so um what we have found as far as maintenance on that ball field and again our maintenance there might be limited just to like dragging it you know initially out of the spring a couple days a week um or once a week and then throughout the year it probably progresses down is that it probably doesn't get Ed as much as what we might see at Stone Gate right or we might see especially downtown or even even tabin Park so um yeah that ball field as far as use I would say is going to be more like just your neighborhood kids just picking up a game to play versus us being asked if you know a team could use it on uh two or three nights a week for uh practice okay are you looking for I know most of this is geared towards the the play The Playground but are you looking for input on the entire parking itself at this point or yeah you know if it is something that we would consider um you know cost effectively wise you know we do have budgeted for this playground cell self itself in our CIP of 655,000 um if it would be an item or something we were considering to add to this park now would probably be the time um as far as like it still um financially meets our standards right so we might still set out hey let's um not to exceed need 100,000 but include a playground set at x amount of dollars include this whatever it may be so yeah I guess I'm I'm more alluding to what uh was just raised as far as the ball field um I recognize that it's already there and people don't like to have things taken away I'm of the perspective we have something like 9 to 11 recreational ball fields and part of our master plan is to have unique uh items um at different locations for um um each site and um given the amount of use I see at that I would I would just personally think that something in its place um might might be beneficial and then you're going to ask what and I don't know what that is but um even even the number of uh soccer fields that we have um I think are way less than ball the ball field so that just throw that out there so yeah if you ask what's the central element of this park well obviously it's the ballpark which doesn't get used the grill the grill is never used the grill well the playground what use it's Unique yes but so we tucked that in the corner so that's the thing to think about and of course it's to me always up against our favorite pickle course you put a pickable court and that'll be packed but I don't think that's exactly right because it's more of a neighborhood park I don't know what the exact classification is but it's probably a big neighborhood park um it's just something to think about in my opinion yeah I that's where I was coming from is I would put that on the table as a potential change for for the future again from the larger context of um we're looking at adding ball fields more more competition level ball fields um we want uniqueness uh we have plenty of ball fields this might be one that can but this seems to me and I don't know the land well enough that you could probably convert it to soccer pretty easily I would think yeah 2001 proposals at Park did include a soccer ball soccer field that actually went East and West at the end of the baseball field um not nothing else progressed with that um you know but I I'll I'll back up a little bit and maybe ask um um pet is your intentions to maybe move the playground set to the baseball field well no I actually am I like the way it is back in that area that that is um that is a great spot for it no that's why I kind of asked whether you're looking for feedback on the entire location because I no I I don't necessarily think that needs to be done um but I'm just as as a park in to ality um I think that all field as Hanks as that could consider have that on our and our list of things for considerations of changes maybe it's in a maybe it's an adult Fitness area like a u you know number of workout um stations I guess is the word I'm looking for um that sort of thing um yeah something something unique something that something that gets used I think it would be nice to have something for older kids too um instead of sitting in that bridge and smoking um you know some something for them to do in the park and maybe a soccer field would be something more useful you know um in in those comments soccer nets are pretty inexpensive but you know still gather um you know just like we did in in Pilot Park we put two Nets there I think it cost us about $4,000 that would be something um we could you know you could always put them there and if it doesn't work those are definitely movable assets that we could take to a different Park so might be something worth putting in on this one is to uh include uh two soccer nets to see how it works there further questions or clarifications and also I'll ask were you are you looking for doesn't looking like you're looking this just discussion for today you're looking for any sort of motion or yeah actually I'm looking for yeah just some feedback from the Commissioners as far as what I what I need to take to those vendors to say yeah yes we want 5 to 12 are we looking for you know uh with our funds that we do have we looking for we know what we can get for 80,000 that's kind of the demontra size right that 125,000 is going to be more your peble Park um size so you know if you guys have a number in mind that we want to stay in or recommend to them and then I can bring back those sample uh items that are next meeting to say this is what uh future proposals are um or this is what we could be looking at for installation there but if you have specifics on what you want in that playground set now would be the time that I would be in favor of as wide of age range as possible but um sort of veering towards older rather than really young if that makes sense I mean I don't know that you can go full range you don't want a Tot Lot there but at the same time want something that would encourage yep okay that would be my input I am in favor of and I don't know if this is still I am in favor of those swing sets go getting back in there uh we heard and that's just based on hearing from a number of people through the months inquiring about those swing sets so I think they are missed um and that I guess I would favor a range of I know you could could get a tot swing plus just regular swings fairly easily I would think yeah once the structures currently there then we can um make some uh several things for other input I do like the thought of removing the ball field I think there'd be more use if we're going to look at an older playground set I think the soccer net would get more use out of it that way I just we have a lot of these kind of neighborhood ballparks through the city and I'm not sure we this is a good one that we might be able to get rid of we've got enough of them definitely in favor of seating options Commissioners are you in favor of of the along with seating options the the grill stain or P picnic tables um I think we need to enhance it say we've got the grill there and we've got a bench again and we have a budget in the future for shelters I think that that would be good Adam do you have the top of your head uh recall how many locations we have grills at it's not it's not a whole lot I would say um so peble has one uh clyce and I believe it's just um uh Goose Lake oh okay and Stone Gate has one as well good memory to your knowledge do they get used um good question I think we find a lot more trash in them initially than anything but um but I think yeah I think I think I've seen the one of pebble used this the one at Stony gets used quite a bit cuz it's the Cub Scout Park so they use it at their their first year meeting when they handled all the information they do a little cookout on that Grill so that does get used eily I would agree I think it's just are you there are you are you there to see it when it's getting used no you know a lot of times you're you know quick in and out and might not you daytime you're not going to see it but weekends I think yeah I think they're relatively used most part but I I agree with Hank that if we have a table and potentially a shelter down the road I think it be more liable to be used even within the neighborhood for a neighborhood [Laughter] Gathering one thing that was add to the DeMille Park was um the shade canopy I don't know if any uh members have seen that I don't know if they you guys are in favor of of continuing that Trend or not um technically there's probably a little more shade around this area um especially in the morning uh and in the later evenings and you would in the middle of day but it's a it's an option as well pretty inexpensive would Happ to me I I think that would be nice to have I mean they could propose it in the drawings and look at it they could always drop it if we don't want it the um I have no idea what they're called but the um sort of web rope web things that are that go vertically um I think are interesting to me because different ages can use it and go to the level that they're comfortable with all the way up to teens um you know climbing on those I don't know what they're called rope y rope structures um that comes to mind is something specific I'd be interested in seeing price-wise we good with sticking with the 65,000 or would we like to increase decrease well if we were if we were to change it then we're moving you're exceeding the CIP but it' be a you'd be recommending it to city council for approval because it's coming out of um your um perks um dedication dedication funds but we already have this in the CIB correct correct y so so we would be you just be asking to exceed the amount that's already in the C got you uh yeah I don't know I guess I feel like 65,000 is probably appropriate for the playground area if we're talking about adding some type of Pavilion um some soccer nets that type of thing I feel like a good proposal I I would be interested to entertain what it takes to do that um that's super General yeah yeah unless we're going to shoot dark we have no idea what any of that stuff costs and so if you go to somebody like the city council and say hey we want an extra 30,000 bucks they're going to go for what okay so we're not to that point yet but what we're telling you right now is we can see several different things that are potentially in that range so you know if you were to come back and say okay well to do this to the ballpark and to change it it's going to cost X out then that would might be a good thing to do and then we can make the decision about whether we do it with the the playground set or we do it another time any other input and Adam do you are you seeking anything specific other than what we provided is there any other bullet item that you'd like to us to hit on nope that is what I was looking for I just have a question so given I don't have a lot of experience in this but when whoever comes together with the options for the playground do they ever come back with here's what the 65,000 roughly will get you but for another 10,000 this is like is it easier to ask for it upfront versus you know you see a 65,000 come back and you're like oh that's not exactly yeah so I'll bring back the proposals likely at the next meeting so reached out to the vendors have already started that process so now they're just looking for specifics do we want you know how big of a swing did you want and did you want any specifics on that so I'll bring those proposals back and yes that'll include options to like you know from that 65,000 that kind of be our base rate of what we'll be looking at for an additional you know 10,000 you might be able to get this okay large rope swing or whatever you know a zip line or whatever so add okay thank you for that we can move to our next agenda item which is uh goal setting representative so several months ago I did indicate that we would be um looking for a representative from The Parks Commission to um sit in our on our city goal setting um this is done about every two to three years um includes all department heads as well as the city council um and they're now including uh commissions and so we're looking for um the commission to recommend um someone to attend that meeting that a meeting will be held on January 15th and it's from 5: to 8 part of the responsibilities for this representative will be to discuss the completed 2024 progress along with last Year's work plan and um they'll be asked to discuss three challenges facing the Parks Commission so um in this discussion I'd like to uh for everyone to also talk about those three things that they that person should bring back uh to that goal setting meeting so issue before us tonight is to nominate or select a person among the members to attend that January 15th meeting and then let's discuss those three challenges the commission faces over the next few years all right well uh if anybody wants to make a motion right off the bat that could happen otherwise we can just have a discussion beforehand regarding interest level uh as a for a Parks representative or your your IM opinion on that um we could also just have a discussion about the the challenges we think exist as well I think we should start with the challenges okay and if someone's super passionate about that maybe that's easy to nominate sure okay so three challenges the commission faces over the next few years let me start us out with number one getting a Parks director okay do you want to elaborate you just no I think it's pretty clear what I'm talking about that well this gets back to my kind of Central Point here is that our priorities should really come from from here MH and one of the first things that it talks about in there is hiring a Parks commissioner and it's one of the things that we're going to put into our work plan next year and it's one of the things that we're going to bring up with the city council and so it is one of those things okay um stealing your thunder probably number two would be uh future funding of the park system okay and we transition from the parks allocation of of resources from um developments to more of a budgetary uh system and there I've already taken two yeah on my list too so t Okay easy easy anybody else have a challenge well I I guess in my mind the number the other big issue that we talk about not infrequently is what's the city's plan for a pin wheel type you know Park and what's the timeline Associated that what do we need need to do how do we integrate what they're doing with what we need to be doing to create some synergies there I think along with that we need to be more in the Forefront of these developments that are coming to city council to be more in the Forefront of where the park is going to be what we're looking for where these developments are what quadrant of the city and what that Park might need right we want you know if this these the schools going to move and take that adap park with it we need to find a replacement for that CU you see the usage of it so if we're getting a development in this North Area we would it'd be nice to be on the Forefront of it it seems like we get it last be like all right here's your Park area and now make it work or we only have 6% of our area available for you and we'll give you some fund so I think we need to be in the Forefront kind of like the pin wheel the same thing are we just going to get a a drawing from an architect or an engineer say like all right here's what we want to do you guys rubber stamp it I think I think you know Mion is right we need to be in the Forefront of some of this stuff so there's no surprises and try to work together so kind of a proactive versus reactive planning 100% well and integrated too yeah maybe as was talked about I think by the city council the pin wheel is only part of the answer maybe there's some kind of new Central athletic field or something that went along with the pen wheel okay well those are the kind of discussions that need to occur yeah and I guess I would um I think that piggybacks quite nicely to say um our trail system as well which we hear about quite often um we're going to if we're not careful um and allow development to um be have to steer steer the process we're going to miss opportunities for trail activity obviously the more development comes the harder harder it becomes so um I think that keyword somebody just said and that was Mike that just said proactivity um whether it's the development uh you know being part of the developments whether it's Trail connectivity I would also like to see more proactivity um in working generally with the staff in just agenda setting and steering how what we do month to month um that's been a challenge since I've been here and I think it's a challenge going forward so we are able to um do some of these things with with u you know development um you know and Trail connectivity so maybe maybe the challenge is is proactivity for Parks Yeah well i' yeah I mean the connectivity we talked about that last month opportunities to connect the new park with Sunfish Lake Park right could you know that landscape could change real quick and we might not have that opportunity so trails and parks and other cities like Woodburry have figured it out yeah okay somehow they've gotten the county and the state and MH developers all syn together to figure it out and granted we're not what B but we're on the road to Woodberry s so no you take you take Lake Elmo and that's the road to Woodberry I I agree with the as far as the parks with Woodberry they're they're fantastic fantastic and so I I think maybe it's uh proactivity and prioritization of parks um or the park system is is maybe what I would advocate for as the as a third goal uh prioritization as meaning we have a master Parks plan uh we have to the CH the challenge I would argue is that um it be on the Forefront on the not the most important thing for everybody involved in the you know the city whether it's city council or something it's not the most important thing but it should be on people's minds as we do development as we do um well yeah I'll keep it at that I agree that proactivity is really important both for the park layout and and the trails and our current Trails you know to to keep that I hear that all the time at the city um light up the city thing I was helping people across the street and so many people said you know we need more crosss we need more connected trails and things like that and they're just talking about existing places so I think we need to have those things under an umbrella as our third challenge is to um being proactive looking ahead and I think that would fall under the our first option with the park supervisor so it's a circle to overlook we have one two three which brings us back to they're all interconnected and you can't have one without the other I don't think want to do a good job well and you can't plan for the future if there's not adequate if there's not a sustainable funding model right yeah well so we could go about this two ways I guess we could keep it as an informal discussion or we could formalize our priorities guess I'd like to hear from you all as whether we want to do that um meaning make a motion uh agreeing on the the priorities or just keeping it as I'm seeing Adam make notes uh and keeping it for the representative that we make a motion be able to have that discussion uh rather than just a you know a structured motion do you uh do you know when the um our meeting is with city council is it before this meeting so um so that was one of the things because the the goal setting meeting is set right after uh because we are initially scheduled for the 14th we are going to move move our meeting with city council till February so we'll Piggy with planning on February um 11th okay so we're plan for our joint meeting on February 11th that way we can identify these three goals and also Implement them in our uh with the whole commission and um city council together and because of that I withdraw my name from consideration because I'm going to be gone in February so yeah I think it's important to have the same person at both meetings you were my number one candidate that's too bad I hear a lot of energy from the other side of the table um I I am here and I would be happy to attend oh great Ellen thank you I nominate Ellen to be our representative to carry forth this discussion and um those goals that we've talked about tonight I second that was um Ure Ure making a motion okay elim second I'll V did you oh we can have we have a second we can have some discussion sorry I got carried away yes nope no discussion I was getting ready to go down the line here okay okay I just I'll restate the the motion is uh to recommend commissioner Ash to the uh be the park representative for the January 15th meeting um for the three challenges that we've identified as a group Ash I Barrett i castler i buer i s i Elum I that is unanimous and uh our next item is Communications so as I just noted again that uh Joint Commission will be moved till February so um look forward I'll we likely take attendance um just to make sure that um city council is aware of who is all showing up that dat Please be aware our January 20th meeting will be moved to the Wednesday um because of the holiday right so uh Beware of that one I believe our February meeting uh we'll discuss that later is actually on a Wednesday as well so we got we'll have two back toback it always is the first two first two month year prepare for that um we did open up our ice rink last Friday um down here at lions parks that is open uh today was probably a little warmer where it probably did get a little sloppy already so um as weather does cool down again we'll continue to make ice and um we'll keep you updated on our Facebook page as well as our website as that continues to be um open or closed like as indicated before DeMille Park is completed um they completed that about uh two or three weeks ago I should say three weeks ago as far as putting the final Mulch and everything on there to complete that so that playground is set and prepared for uh the spring as well um that is all I have are there any Commissioners with uh Communications I don't know if this is communication more lesson that might be the light up like Elmo tree is on its side oh I don't know if the wind got it today or what because as I drove through downtown I looked over like what's what's going on and it is laying down okay wonder if that's communication or not but it seems legitimate okay okay any other Communications if not we can take a motion to adjourn Ash I'll make a motion to adjourn tonight's meeting we have a second Barrett I'll second okay we have a motion to adjourn s i Barrett i castler i buer i STS I Elum I and we are adjourned at 7:16 you're so efficient here the whole for