So, whoever's in third, >> do you think he um shut the microphone off on that? >> I don't understand. Can you guys hear? Okay. >> Is it back yet? >> Nope. Saturday. >> You want to try and >> Well, we shut this off and then we come back. Come back. We can figure out. >> Sure. So then after we take the break, we'll have rank choice voting. There will be second and third place. The third place will be eliminated. If there is a tie between second and third, we have a weighted criteria and that person will then be assigned third place and be eliminated. If there is a tie, there also will be a weighted criteria um to determine the winner. After that is revealed who has the highest. discussion will continue and we'll have to go with a motion to move this to the council. Um this will go to the next council meeting and uh from there they would uh have another meeting then go into close session to move forward on awarding the um fire station. All right. So the first application proposal A is tap and ladder machete. So the summary is Brian and Amanda in partnership with Julian Okampo proposed to transform these two landmark properties into a welcoming locally owned destination that preserves their historic character while introducing fresh modern amenities. Downtown Lake Elmo currently lacks a true community focused dining hub. Our plan addresses this gap by creating two vibrant gathering places that offer great food, distinctive beverages, a year-round opportunities for connection. The site will be acquired in one joint plan but proportionately divided allocating approximately 30% of the park's building and 70 to the fire station based on final uh final project square footage in coordination with city officials. So that's from the application proposal. This is a sample rendering of the fire station for tap and ladder. So it's a tap and ladder is one of the uses. It is permitted as a land use. The fire station will be transformed. This is just quotes coming from the proposal. Into tap and ladder, a self-pour tap house and casual dining restaurant with approximately 150 seats. Guests will enjoy an approachable menu, burgers, broads, fish fry, and unique signature dishes alongside a 28 tap self-pour wall, craft sodas, and locally inspired cocktails. Indoor spaces will include flexible seating, a dedicated children's play area, and heritage displays honoring Lake Elmo's fire service and local veterans. Full view garage doors and spacious patio will create a seamless indoor outdoor experience with seasonal events and community programming year round. Now on the parks building it's uh the rendering of machete Mexican restaurant and is also permitted. The parks building will become the second location of machete casino Mexicanana. A bold chefdriven concept already thriving on the southwest side of Woodberry. Known for its vibrant flavors, handcrafted tortillas and signature quesad. I didn't practice this. Quesadia lo. I haven't studied Spanish in a long time. So, okay. Machete will bring authentic Mexican cuisine and a curated beverage program to the old village. A patio overlooking Lions Park will create a lively connection between the restaurant and surrounding public spaces. So listed in the proposal, economic impact for both restaurants. The estimated buildout cost 980,760 for the fire station and 704220 for parks building. The estimated FTEES, not including construction, would be three full-time at Tap and Ladder, three um full-time machete, and then 20 and 17 part-time, respectively. Parking requirements for all uses. So, something to note, and you'll see it on all the slides, is that parking requirements may be waved in the village mixeduse district recognizing the availability of on street and shared parking facilities. And this is in our code. So the estimated range, so it's difficult to state exactly without full plans, but it's around 47 to 65 spaces based on what was submitted and that um they're providing off street parking on 30 to 50 spaces. You can talk about it later if they would like to, but they had different scenarios, a lot of flexibility with their parking parking open to different ideas with the city. And this is just one of the the layouts that you would see. And then something that is being considered at this point is the purchase price. So one of the things that we instructed the proposals proposers to do is state exactly what that dollar amount is that the city would receive. We know we don't have an appraisal yet. We do know the appraised value is probably going to be, you know, over um we were telling people about 800,000. So we stated, you know, say 150 less than the appraised value, you know, whichever is less. So the max we would receive for this proposal is 750. So at this point I'd like to Brian up for anybody else who wants to come up say a couple minutes and then answer a question. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> Good evening, mayor, council members, and city staff. My name is Brian Height and together with my wife Amanda, we're grateful for the opportunity to share our vision with you tonight. I'd also like to congratulate the other finalists and extend a special thank you to our partner Julian Okbo whose collaboration has been invaluable in this project. Amanda and I have lived in Lake Elmo for nearly seven years. And for much of that time, we've been developing the idea you see today. What makes our proposal unique is that it's truly for Lake Elmo by Lake Elmo. Over and over again through community surveys and on social media, residents have said they do not want more housing in the old village core. They want more restaurants, more family oriented gathering spaces, and more parking downtown. Our plan answers those requests directly at the fire station. Tap and ladder will bring approachable food, a self-port tap wall designed to look like a firet truck, a dedicated kids zone, something no other establishment in the area offers. Programming like family movie nights, yoga on tap, paint and sip with local artists, and community vehicle display displays will make it more than just a restaurant. It will be a year-round hub for connection. At the parks building, Machete Cosina Mexicana will deliver bold authentic food and another lively patio for residents to enjoy. Financially, we are well prepared. In addition to multiple pre-approvals through commercial lenders, one of which is Lake Elmo Bank, we've raised an additional $30,000 since being notified we were in the top three. Bringing our current Bringing our current total to $110,000 in private investment. We've partnered with over a dozen local businesses including DSGW Architecture who is here, Prestige Mechanical, who is here, and the Patriotic Kenny Foundation, who is here, which will benefit directly from charitable bingo and pab proceeds. And importantly, our plan expands and improves parking to serve both our venues and the broader community, addressing one of downtown's most pressing needs, while at the same time creating vibrant, welcoming spaces that reflect Lake Elmo's character and values. Our parking lot will remain open to the public. Thank you again for your time and your trust in us. And now, I'd like to introduce our partner, Julian. >> Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having us here and very grateful for this opportunity and you know to speak in front of you and again congrats to the other u winners here so or finalists and I just want to say you know quick thing everything um Brian said it comes from the heart uh we've been preparing this he's been doing a lot more work um and just a little background about me um I grew up kind of in Lake Elmo my parents live on Highland Trail I played soccer here in Lake Elmo and in uh Still Water. So, one of the things that really motivates me when I open or when we go into business is um opening restaurants or businesses in communities that I have like grown up and or been a part of that I want to give back to now that I'm in a different position. So, when Brian approached me and Amanda approached me with this opportunity, it was kind of a no-brainer for me. So, um I'm just really happy that it's uh that it's gotten this far and happy to talk and, you know, and speak to everyone. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentations. I think your uh proposal would make a good sense for Lake Elmo. I'd like to see if any of the other uh members of the economic development authority have any questions for you. Go ahead, D. Um if if it was if that was in here, I apologize I didn't see it. What how many days a week would you be open roughly? What kind of hours would you cover? What what uh meals? What what's your coverage >> for tap and ladder? The plan right now is 7 days a week um 4 to 9 or 10 most days and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday we would open at 11:00, stay open probably till 10 on um Friday and Saturday, but obviously that would be, you know, in discussions with figuring out if the city would approve that. Um for machete. >> Yeah, same thing for machete. Uh currently right now in Woodbury, our uh hours are seven days a week. We open at 11:00 a.m. and close at 900 p. p.m. Sunday through Thursday and 10 p.m. Friday and Saturday. Those could also change, but we plan to open every single day. We do that at all the other restaurants we have on, you know, to serve the community as much as we can. >> Thank you. >> Then go ahead. >> I have a question. Um can you speak about your relationship together and and how you became connected? I'm I'm curious about that and I appreciate uh the passion you've shared here on the podium. >> No, so I'll take that one. Um so a long time ago, high school um I dated Amanda's uh normal sister. So long time ago. Um and you know since then we we've you know stayed in contact. >> Oh sure. I don't know. >> I I want to be you know transparent here. So yeah. So that's fair. >> The buildings are separate. >> Um yeah, and then you know kept in touch through social media and she approached me last year about this and I was interested and as they got further into it we got you know closer and now we're here. That's how >> cool. Wasn't sure if it was a a cold knock. Um and then question for staff. I have an observation I'd like to share with can I share that among the four? >> I think after the questions. >> Okay. Questions first then. Okay. >> I'd like to ask a question. As as part of your your proposal, you mentioned the the uh the use of tax increment financing as part of your business plan. What would happen if the city council failed to approve the that possibility? I think we're prepared to go ahead and move forward without that if we had to. But uh what I wanted to make clear in the response was there are options available and we would be happy to have those conversations with the city to figure out what might be available to utilize. And if the answer was no, um our financing, our investors and conversations with Julian, we're we're okay to proceed without that if we had to. >> Thank you very much. Thank you guys. So, I'm imagining that DSGW has done the survey of the parks building. I think that's a concern with a lot of people and whether that's salvageable or not. Um, I'm assuming that based on this proposal that you guys have had a good done a good pretty good assessment of that building and you're able to maintain it, >> assess. I'm sorry. And if if if not, what's your plan B if that do you have the ability to finance rebuilding a building? >> Uh so we've had a couple of different estimators come in and take a look at the building. >> Okay. >> Uh DSGW we made clear at the uh early onset that we if in the event we won, we would like to partner with them as our architecture firm. So uh we've not retained them to actually go and do that assessment yet. >> But I guess are you financially prepared to rebuild if you had to. >> I think it kind of depends on the act the actual cost after a very thorough assessment. >> Okay. >> That building is uh more in Julian's lane because that would be his restaurant. >> That that that building is in much worse shape than obviously the fire station. >> Yeah. Um and then yeah it goes down to um the survey and uh you know after getting all that um we do you know have the the finances or like the pre-approvals and everything um there also is you know more funds that uh we haven't you know discussed or I haven't brought to the table that in the end if it gets to that point and we need to do that then we do have that and so I also wanted to make sure so we have much here in Woodbury but um we also have all the lobo restaurants across the twins cities. So, this is just one different brand um that it's kind of like a branch off that now I'm trying to put more um you know money and uh into. So, >> there is that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, would you both co-own both or are you going to be machete and you're going to be tap and ladder? >> Some of that depends on the commercial lenders and how they want to see the financing. We've had that conversation multiple times about different ways we could approach it. Some of that will depend on negotiations with the city. >> One option is uh he owns that building and the restaurant. We own tapping ladder in the restaurant. The other is we own the commercial properties and lease the space back to >> machete. >> Um I think there was a third option. I don't know what that one we had. We've we've spent a lot of time discussing all the various options, but it kind of comes down to >> going back to the commercial lenders and having that discussion of here's what the appraisal comes in at. Here's how that would be divided and and what they're more comfortable with. >> So, would you So, you would stay in this lane and you would stay in this lane. Would you be able to help out this lane if something were to happen? >> Yes. So he he will be partnering with us on the fire station regardless of how the finances shake out in the end with the commercial lend. >> You'll both be involved with each other's projects? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yep. Correct. >> Are there any further questions for the finalist? Uh so at the next city council meeting we approve you go forward pending that everything with city staff operates as efficiently as it always does and it does because you guys are great. Uh what do you see your timeline as for opening? When would when would the doors open up on the fire station? And I suspect that the the your restaurant would be a little later just based on the scope of work it would have to happen. But >> yeah, >> what do you foresee is that timeline? Yeah, we've in the discussions we've had with the various contractors we've talked to, it's about a six to eight month timeline once the purchase is finalized. >> Um, obviously there's a lot of variables there. The phase two I don't believe has come back yet, so that could delay things as well. >> Sure. >> Um, but basically once started they're estimated about six to eight months. >> Cool. >> Yeah. And then just so we can make clear too, if machete you with the building takes a lot longer, priority would be to get tap and ladder going. Um we want to open that like you know spring or >> tomorrow. Really? >> Yeah. Really soon. >> Take advantage of a good weather and then machete. Um it doesn't have to be you know it can it can take what it needs to take depending on what what what the work it needs to be done there. >> Okay. Um but you know tap and ladder I think is a >> you know I I think the fire station of any of these projects and having done a little bit of homework and looking at myself >> the fire station's the engine of the whole whole project that's that's going to fuel and fund what else we do what else gets done there. So makes sense. >> Okay. >> We have another question from council member Hol. >> Yeah. Can you say more? So the play area you know 19 by 23. What kind of things do you envision for that? Would it have similar hours to the restaurant itself? I I see there's an external facing door as well. Would it be how would that play out in terms of the experience that you would have? Is it very separated or would a restaurant goer use at the same time or is it kind of either or? >> I didn't catch the first part of the question. How would they use the >> I mean, what type of activities do you see there? What type of hours? Would it be the same hours as the restaurant? >> I'm sorry. Okay. So, it would be the same hours as the restaurant, I think, is our plan at the moment. I guess that could change depending on one of the things that we wanted to do is get on social media right away and start asking residents what they wanted to see. So, if that ended up being something that we wanted to open earlier, um I think we would be open to that. I don't see why that would be a problem. Um but as far as activities, we're thinking arcades, uh rock climbing wall, uh first responder themed toys, books, those types of things. And then um a hero's wall that has costumes for kids to. And then with the restaurant it Thank you. with the restaurant itself, I'm I'm seeing, you know, different areas, I wouldn't call them wings per se, but some of them are separated with doors. Is the intention that maybe like one is a reservable area for gatherings or is it it's all open. It's just area A, area B, area C? Yeah, the the plan is to open it up as much as possible. Um that kind of depends and then there will be some either half walls or being able to block off some for private rentals. >> Um with the kids area, you know, there we're talking about uh if anybody goes to Lifetime, but there's a kids gym that has a glass wall with a door, so we'd have that so parents could see their kids in there. Um and >> what if you don't want to see your kids? You will need to rewind cages. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Best of both worlds. I >> think the fifth on that one, I guess. >> Thank you. >> Uh, one more. What do you see as the biggest challenges, if you will, of having, you know, your two businesses be a long-term sustainable success? >> Challenges. you have eight restaurants, so that's probably a good answer for you. >> Yeah, I mean, what we've seen in success that I've been, you know, telling Brian is just, uh, continuing to stay involved in the community and, um, you build that goodwill. Uh, I mean, I don't really foresee I mean, if anything, it'd be anything like economical where something that we use a lot of uh, changes in price dramatically. Um, that'd be something that'd be hard based on my experience in the last, you know, 15 years. uh to keeping our numbers and our profit and everything correct. Um that's the hardest thing I I've seen. Uh and then you know apart from that just being really involved in the community and um you know giving back. That's >> I think in the two things I would say or add to that is the first one is the seasonality of Lions Park >> baseball games that could impact things slightly, but that's why we also want to do things like family movie night, snowball fights in the patio, snowband building contest, things like that to always have some reason to be there. Um, and then the other piece is the self-pour tap wall. Um, I don't know if anyone has ever been to one of those, but they're becoming extremely popular for a multitude of reasons. You, we, our plan would be to have 28 taps that are constantly rotating between beer, craft beer, Minnesota brands, seltzers, cers, wines, mocktails, craft sodas. Um, and the data that's collected through Pormy Beer, who is the vendor that puts those together, allows you to constantly be looking at demand both in the restaurant as well as nationally to see what the trends are. So, you're always keeping up to date with what people actually want. Um, one thing that they have noticed over the last two or three years is, uh, craft beer itself is slowly starting to decline. Uh therefore having a tap wall where you can quickly adjust based on what that demand is is much more economical as that industry starts to shift. Um one of the other things Sunshine Coffee um we've spoken to them and they've agreed to uh provide us with their cold brew coffee for a nitro draft on the tap wall as well. Um so it just gives so much flexibility to what the beverage selection is, not just the food selection and allows kids as well. >> Excuse me. So the the porn b is that what what that's called? I've been to Malcolm Yards and I've seen it. Um uh are they continuing will they constantly be connected to you uh to give you that information uh or will they control it? Will they change the mix of the >> No, we would be in charge of that. Uh my brother-in-law is a certified ciserone server and so he's actually going to manage the the tap list. >> But you'll get input from form as to what >> Yeah. So the national data as well as the in-house data and he would use that based on his experience of selecting beer at the various locations he's worked. >> Okay. Thank you. >> How did you come up with the name? >> That's a good At this point I don't know if I could remember but I've gone through about 25 different names and that's the one that kept coming up. >> How about you since you're branching off? Oh, machete or or what I think about tap and ladder or >> well machete cosina is I wanted to create something that wasn't just authentic Mexican that you see like any any Mexican you go it's sombrero bright colors uh you know very biant and all these I that is like you know Mexican traditional Mexican but I wanted to com like move that well it's not just me my wife Emma's here too so we we came up the with the idea we branch kind of like off and create that same authentic take base and then give it a different look with a smaller menu. Uh more gourmet food and also more like craft margaritas and cocktails. And that's kind of what we came up with. Machete. Yeah. >> Cool. >> It has a good ring to it too, I think. >> Yeah. Yeah. One more maybe confirmatory question just on the on the kitchen for tap and ladder like my the vision there is a quick serve like like American type foods. It looks like you've talked to Hagber. So there's some burger options in the mix. Maybe you quick share the concept there. I think I have an idea, but I would like to hear playback. >> Yeah. So >> what the kitchen entails and the food selection. >> Yeah. So basically we would double the existing size of the kitchen there to be able to >> allow for different options. But um so we've we've talked a lot about, you know, main menu as well as kids menus because we want to do a lot of different kids foods that you wouldn't normally see. Our kids love cinnamon butter toast all the time. So we would have that on the menu. things that you don't see everywhere. >> Um PBJS, you don't see those everywhere. You know, kids, our kids are very picky. >> Um and uh so we would have things that we know kids are actually going to eat. Um and then we were also looking at uh you know, craft burgers, BRZ, hot dogs. Um cage night would be one of our themes. Uh man and I use grill cages all the time and throw just a whole bunch of various things in there and you fire roast it on the grill. And so we would have family cage night. um and let people come in and sort of pick all of their different ingredients that they want to throw in a cage and and grill those and and and those types of things. So, trying to do things that >> are fun, uh unique, >> um and also tasty. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, to add to that too, um a lot of the our our staff that have been with us for more than 10 years, 15 years um before that or even during that um they've branched out and gone to different places and worked different places, you know, uh got a lot more knowledge about um American food, too. So, that's something I told Brian that we're not just here to make authentic Mexican food that's, you know, made from scratch and all that. We also have the knowhow of um the American fair, too. And a lot of uh we we made our own things. We don't put them on the menu. It's just different things that we try. I'm like, well, this would be good. But now I think all those things that we have, we could try it out there. >> Cool. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Does anyone else have any further questions for the presenters? If not, thank you very much for your time and any and your effort. Good luck. >> Yep. Thank you. I'd like to ask community development director stopper to do give the next presentation. Okay. So proposal B we have River Siren Brewing Lake Elmo Commons. So the summary is this plan combines River Siren Brewing Company and the Lake Elmo Village Commons development team to deliver a vibrant walkable village core that honors the city's history while driving future growth. The development includes three integrated components. So you can see this is a rendering where they preserved the fire station and then um tear down the parks building which was something that we said was you didn't lose points for in scoring um and you'll see a mixeduse building with some uh residential. So Riverside Iron Brewing Company it's brew pub. It is a permitted use. Uh the Lake Gum location will feature a welcoming tap room, indoor and outdoor seating and a locally inspired menu. Our upgraded brewing system will have a realistic package capacity of approximately 2,180 barrels annually with conservative estimates of 500 barrels sold directly at the lake brew pub in year 1 and room to grow as awareness customer base and event programming expand. So the estimated buildout cost of 750,000 and the FTEES are 8 to 10. And then Lake Elmo Commons mixeduse building, it's a conditional use. It's roughly 16,000 square feet. It's one to three retail spaces, 4,860 square feet. Food and drink, retail and or office is envisioned at the site. And then 8 to 12 dwelling units are um also envisioned. The economic impact the buildout cost will be about 6.1 million and the FTEES not including construction be around 11 to 18 FTEEs on that site. Public realm improvements. For this one, you see an increased uh public prominade pathway with landscaping that connects from Lake Elmo Avenue to Lions Park. There's also sidewalk connections, greenway, and a civic plaza included between the two uses. Parking requirements, as we said before, there's a waiver in the code. The estimated range is difficult to estimate. Um, you know, if there's different housing units, that changes what goes into the space, retail, office. So it's difficult to calculate but it could be anywhere between 66 to 134 spaces and then the provided off streetet parking on the site and the plan was 40 spaces. So this is a overview of the site with the public pathway going from Lake Elmo Avenue all the way to Lines Park and it shows the parking with the mixes building and the brew pub and the purchase price offer is 200,000. Um that's a combined price. So it would be 100,000 for the brewing river siren brewing company 100,000 for the lake emmo village commons development team at this point just like to welcome the team up whoever wants to come up briefly and answer any questions. Well, another fun EDA meeting. This has got to be uh How long have you been building up to this point where there's three teams? It's been a while, I'm sure, looking at that firehouse. I'm Pete Hagstrom. I'm a property owner right next to the firehouse. Um the uh the old building at 3511 that uh we bought oh man probably 30 years ago, 40 years ago and renovated. Uh my dad bought the uh Joshua Taylor building uh 45 50 years renovated that and you know we just have a love for Lake Ammo and just revitalizing the old buildings. But this is Brian Carlson with uh River Siren. Uh Jeremy is is with Imprint Architects and they're kind of teaming up. And then Kyle Huberty with St. Ter is is is a great team that has put together a phenomenal proposal as we see it. >> Yeah. Uh Mayor Kaden Head and council members, I just want to thank you for for bringing us up here and city staff as well. And also congratulations to all the other finalists. Um I'm Brian Carlson. I'm the owner of Riverside Brewing. Uh we've been in business in downtown Stillwater for just over four years now. Um recently renovated a uh an existing brewery. Um added on, changed it. Um our our goal and entire goal in that process was to make it a a community focused uh location. Um and I think we've excelled at that. Um we've uh doubled revenue compared to ex prior brewery that was there um on an annual basis and we continue to grow. Um my wife Harmony and I have lived in uh Stillwater for over 20 years now. Um we've got four kids in the school district uh currently and um yeah, when this opportunity arose um it seemed like a fantastic opportunity to uh continue to grow our business. So, thank you for letting us be here. >> And hello everybody. Thank you for uh having us. Thank you uh committee council members and um we uh I'm Kyle Huberty and I'm representing the St. Ter architecture and development team that's proposing really the the mixeduse building is kind of our piece of this. This is a joint proposal where there'll be the brewing team architect and owners working together on that component and we're splitting the site and creating this sort of new development and give you a little bit our our team is here as well as a couple members are hopefully virtually watching in here. This is a a team made up of experts in early urban design and architecture design that we specialize in places that have a soul. So that we work really um with cities that have history and legacies that we really try to focus in on and celebrate. And we've we we know this area well. We're have work currently going on in other areas and cities of similar kind of size and predicaments as we're looking at development and what do these villages do in the sort of in the in the wave of oftentimes the the suburban sprawl and kind of getting surrounded. These cities like Lake Elmo represent places that have history with agricultural legacies, but also have a real downtown that represents a pretty rare uh a pretty rare um opportunity, which is to say a walkable town is really hard to to come by. And as we've discovered in our kind of, you know, really hitting the streets, getting to know the people here, this is a place that is really special and beloved to everyone in this community. So when we look at what the future for Lake Elmo should look like, we see a really unique opportunity to sort of continue what's already going well here and to be sensitive and thoughtful to the architecture and the history while also asking what should and where is this where is this city going? How can we respond to what's happening all around it? And to that end, our proposal is really it's got some beautiful background buildings. That's the way I would describe them. Our buildings are going to be humble and serve the the uses of both living spaces for people to live somewhere where they could have the luxury of stepping out of their front door and walking to a coffee shop or food. It's a really special unique quality here, but also a place for people to live, work, play all within the city. But what we're seeing within the city is this opportunity and really why this team has been brought together is to connect use our project as a catalyst to connect Lake Elmo's urban fabric from Lake Elmo to Lions Park. And really to be able to do that, we needed to talk to the neighbors and get involved. And so this is where Pete Hagstrom's location actually has an easement built on it where you have your Christmas tree lighting every year. That's a public green park. That's an active gathering place and we see the opportunity to continue that prominade activating it with a destination brewery and new food and drink uh retail spaces that could be really enriching the fabric. So what we're trying and proposing here is to actually build the sort of the the trellis that the vines will grow on. So, we're hoping that we can leverage the city's RFP, this site that is underutilized in parking lot right now, and create, you know, an additional um really an anchoring building that will support that corner connecting Lions Park to Main Street and then using the sort of um future development to bring in new food and drink that further creates this place as a uh really both a destination for the local residents as well as people coming from the, you know, the the continual growth all around it. So we see this RFP as really being an opportunity to look at this as a bit of a domino for the next chapter of Lake Elmo and using it to sort of complete some of the urban fabric and can make these connections that could be built upon in the future. >> Thank you. >> I'll just go ahead. Um hi, my name is uh Jeremy Imhof with Imprint Architecture and Design. Um, uh, I live in Still Water and we work out of Still Water and so I have a real appreciation for preserving the history of place and, um, uh, relish these opportunities when, you know, teaming up with Brian here, um, and potentially teaming up with Brian here and, uh, adapting this fire station, um, is such a great opportunity, um, to reinvision what the building can be and how it could suit the needs of Brian and also the community. Um we worked together um on Brian's uh River Siren Brewery in Still Water. And at the time when we dove into it, it was kind of a bit of a dilapitated building. Needed a lot of um love added to it. And um just with some simple moves without having to, you know, re redo the whole building. We added a deck, a walkout deck off the back that faces the waterfront. um a covered outdoor prominade um that connected that connects uh Main Street to Water Street. And just by some of those moves, it really increased pedestrian traffic through and around the site. Um and just re-engaged u you know that direct, you know, the view out to that waterfront and the people to the waterfront who use the space. Um we see the similar opportunities with the fire station as well. um that connection, the immediate connection across the street to the the ballpark um the potential uh pedestrian corridor, the uh the the the brewery could be could serve as a real hub to the community for gathering and connecting with people. And uh the space is already really well suited to be converted to a brew pub. Um we haven't put uh pencils to uh to to paper specifically on the layout of the space or anything yet, but we already can envision um you know the you know the doors rolling up into a large gathering hall for you know where where you can get food, food and drink. Um there's a great space in the back for production. Um so we can um Brian can produce the beer in the back. Um and then just great opportunities then open up these doors now to the public um and on these outdoor spaces. So that's all I have and thank you. >> Thank you very much for your presentation. I'd like to ask for questions from from the committee here. Joe, >> does anyone have any awkward high school stories to share? >> No. Okay. I'm going to ask the third candidate at two, but >> just getting it out there. So in terms of the the the walkway uh and you had mentioned earlier the the basis or maybe a comparison is that the easement exists where the lighting is for those who are watching like that is where light up Lake Elmo is that's in front of your business. Is the intent that this walkway would be the same thing where it's privately owned but there is an easement over it for public access. Is that the intent? >> Yeah. I mean, it would be a connection from the sidewalk of Main Street as it's drawn through our property, >> the mic, the mic, >> through our property, and then to the uh through the public prominade between the two structures, the new mixeduse building and the brew pub, and then Lions Park. And the goal someday would be to carry that path all the way to the developments that are happening east of downtown. Hypothetically speaking, would it change every anything if the walkway were publicly owned? >> Well, actually there is a public easement there. >> Correct. Just straight up publicly owned in terms because then >> private versus public. You have the maintenance issue. You have Yeah. Just speaking to that, like there will be a rededication of a lot of this land back to the public right away. >> Correct. with Pete's engagement and like using his site as well as part of this development. >> There's obviously conversations around that and it's it's part of the really the understanding of where we're coming at from our performer and purchase price and everything is understanding that this private endeavor will seek to collaborate in a way that is sustainable and if that means it's better to dedicate a lot of this land to more of a public use that could be part of that. >> Yeah. Well, and and no, the root of the question was just in terms of snow removal and maintenance because that that's something that happens a lot of times where we have private roads in certain neighborhoods and then the HOAs are responsible, but obviously you've dealt with this with your your own easement by your property. Other question with FTEES, can you just describe as able if you want to for this forum where those numbers arise from for each for each side? six to 10 for one and then 11 to 18 for the the commons. >> Yeah, I can talk to that from River Siren Brewing perspective. Um, so we would be expanding our brewing capacity. Uh, essentially what we would be doing is moving it from our downtown Stillwater location to the back of the fire station. Um, with that expansion, we will have uh a full-time uh head brewer as well as a full-time assistant brewer and then uh other uh part-time uh you know, I guess one more full-time equivalent um that would help in addition to that process. So, that's just on the brewing side. We would also operate a full fullervice brew hub. So, it's not just right now our our business model, our liquor license is a tap room. So, we don't have a food component right now. um we would um still have a full bar, but we would go for a brew pub license where we'd be able to we would include a kitchen. Um and that would also allow us to serve um things other than what we make. So we could serve um alcohol u like like spirits. Uh we could also um you know we have a a lot of non-alcoholic op options right now but the combined between the um the staff that would be supporting that the the pouring function uh beers tap room that sort of thing and then servers that would be serving food and then cooking staff back house staff that would be operating on that end would make that equivalent to 8 to 10 FTDs. >> Gotcha. So, cuz like with a previous proposal, there was mention of full-time and part-time. On your end, it's it's just lumping it into the full-time category. >> Yeah, I just I I combined it to a full-time equivalent. >> Gotcha. Thank you. >> So, I can speak to the on the Lake Elmo Commons building, mixeduse building. There's still a bit of a unit mix calculation happening which could increase or decrease that number depending on the ratio of retail food and drink options there and relative to the a residential component. So where we're at on this is the the number is estimated around two to three uh food, drink, retail companies occupying this space providing jobs in that piece as well as the the management and actually running the the dwelling units and sort of the management on site. >> I missed anything. >> This was a number based on our best to research based on kind of the numbers guy do my best to research those numbers. need you on a microphone then we can hear you when you're talking. >> So feel free to do a cliff note into the microphone or to >> Sorry, he's waving at me through the window. >> Yeah. >> Uh hello, my name is Josiah Hanka. So, I'm a part of the Saint Tar team and um I do my best to uh run the numbers on on a lot of this. Um and so to the question to where does the calculation for the full-time equivalent um jobs come into come from? Um and because we are still working out, you know, the partnerships on who lands in in these uh retail and restaurant spaces, um I've done my best to calculate based on our square footages. um and using uh metrics of of what restaurants and other retail um spaces um equate to in terms of full-time equivalent employees. And so this 11 uh 11 to 18 full-time equivalent is um kind of within that full range of having, you know, just uh full just retail. You know, you typically have one to two clerks. Um or with a full service restaurant, you know, you're going to have a full team of, you know, that's maybe six people or so. >> Thank you, D. >> Okay. I have two questions, but I think just to clarify, the full-time equivalents that you're saying for the common side, not for the brewery, for the commons, depend upon you leasing out the retail space. In other words, it's coming from the customers is where the full-time employees are coming from. Is that correct? >> Correct. It's coming from the tenants within these buildings that we're going to build. Yeah. >> I I I Okay, now I understand. uh related question to regarding the comments who manages the uh leasing of the retails and the renting or leasing of the residential units. >> So we have in our mixeduse development a full-time management company that will be responsible for the the managing of that and that's kind of built into the operation costs >> and that would be for the long term and not just filling them up initially. Yeah, absolutely correct. >> Okay, that's an existing company or part of the a company that's being created as part of this development. >> That's we've been in uh connecting with some existing companies to interview them in this process just in terms of getting interest and gauging some realistic numbers, but we haven't obviously we're far too early to secure a relationship, but it is >> existing companies. >> Okay. All right. Thank Thank you for that. Now, question regarding brewing and I have a little bias on this. I'm I'm a I'm a craft beer junkie and I don't have any of the big brands. It's all the local ones, but I don't have any River Siren Brewing. And I'm kind of getting at that question. Um uh I'm amazed because I follow how many how saturated the market is with craft brews. Uh there were I saw a list of eight or 10 that went out of business in 2024 in the Twin Cities. A few more new ones opened up. couple of those actually turned around and and closed up. And I I think that's kind of because of the saturation of brew pubs, but also uh what you read with some restaurants having a problem making money is the decline in consumption of alcohol. And I think it was an actual reference of that for the uh for the poor tap business. How do you m you're adding I think you're adding capacity or maybe you said you were moving that capacity from Still Water to Lake Elmo. I'm not really sure, but how are you going to how do you manage that in the long term? And uh how much of the beer sale do you have or will you expect to have not on site? How do you do that? >> Yeah, so great question. Um so number one I would say that yes there is there there is has been a lot of turnover in the in the in the brewery industry you know craft beers obviously um it is saturated there's a lot of national brands that are out there fully funded that are taking up that space on liquor store shelves um where we see breweries that are shutting down are the ones that are a little bit bigger than us but they're not quite the size of Liftbridge or Surirly or you know some of those larger breweries that um these smaller breweries are attempting to do that distribution. They're they're they're they're investing money in the equipment to can their beer to fight the fight on the liquor store shelves and they're losing because of all these national these bigger brands that have you know known quality and they can drive costs lower. So that's why those you see those breweries shutting down. Um when we transition to a brew pub model, we actually give up our ability in the state of Minnesota to do distribution. So, we won't be selling on liquor store shelves. We won't be um selling kegs to restaurants and things like that. We would happily walk away from that business. Right now, it's I think it's about um 1% or even less of our business right now is that distribution. So, um my goal in moving our is expanding our capacity. So, we would we would put in a brand new brewing system at the uh Lake Elmo location to support both Lake Elmo and Still Water. Um, and that's it. We wouldn't we don't have plans to expand beyond that. Um, and then and the nice thing with a with a brew pub, u I mentioned our liquor license right now is a tap room license. You can only have one tap room. Um, with a brew pub, we can have multiple locations. So, if um if we're successful in Lake Elmo and perhaps we want to open another River Siren location, um we could do that under the brew pub model, but we would be hyperfocused on delivering high quality product um that would only be available to the people that are coming to our locations. So then you would brew some you brew some product in Still Water. You do brew some product here. And would those products be for sale in both locations or do I need to if I really like the IP a made in Still Water? I do I have to go to Still Water? >> No. So So 100% of our brewing operation would be held in Lake Elmo. >> Okay. Um, and so we would we would we would um I I haven't thought down the road too much if we would had I my plan would be to have both beers avail or all the beers available at both locations and not separate, you know, but perhaps, you know, that that could I could easily see like a dedicated Lake Elmo IPA or something like that. We have a Still Water Red, right? That makes sense. Um >> um so yeah, I there's there's a lot of creativity that we can get with that for sure. Um, in terms of um, non-beer options as well, there's definitely a growing um, particularly with the younger generations um, of people that aren't as into craft beer as um, you know, my generation or or older have been. Um, we haven't had the space to purchase that equipment that can help us make those NA beers. Um there are um I've recently learned that there are other services that we could that can help us remove the alcohol from our beer that we're making. Um we've actually looked at um developing um kombucha as well, you know, like a a um a fermented uh tea um and that's a non-alcoholic option um and really exploring that space more. We've seen a dramatic increase in our um non-alcoholic options being sold or like right now we purchase non-alcoholic beer. We also make a hop water um our own at our location in Stillwater. Um and we just recently got approval from the Stillwater uh city council to serve THC seltzer. And so we've seen a dramatic increase in across the board in all those non-alcoholic options and we'll continue to to expand that. Um also uh seltzer uh we make a hard seltzer. Um and that has continued to grown grow as well. Um, the nice thing too about a brew pub uh liquor license that we haven't had today is that with a brew pub liquor license, we can purchase um and then resell wine and spirits and things like that, too. So, we would look at, you know, opening it up to a much broader menu than just craft beer. >> Thank you. >> But we would want to keep craft beer as our focus, too. >> That's very helpful. Thank you, >> Antonio. Tony, uh, just to be clear, it's your beer, but that's the only beer that you can sell is or you would sell is the the beer that you make. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I would think that that's that's fundamental to our our our business model and and what makes us unique, too. >> Cool. Is there a concern moving production here with water and water availability and water quality? >> Um, >> what's what's your usage? And I know that we've got water struggles in Lake Elmo. Yeah. Well, I I could I could definitely provide more data on like the amount the quantity that we use on an annual >> basis. Has that been have I guess have you guys considered that at all? Understanding that we want to open a brewery, we're going to use lots of water. There are obviously >> concerns sometimes with the water in Lake Elmo itself and and how does that apply? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> right. Yeah. I I mean I I I think it's um there there's there's definitely concerns um from a from or some that we would have to address that like from a from a water quality perspective and a quantity perspective as well. >> Um I think from a quantity perspective I know I I think last year we used about 350,000 gallons of water. >> Um the large majority of that is not from the brewing process. >> Um the the majority of it is you know toilets flushing and hands washing and our dishwasher and things like that. It's not directly from the brewing process. Um, >> in terms of the quality of water there, we don't have a system. There's a reverse osmosis system that you can that can be purchased where you basically bring the water like filtrate it all out and bring the water back down to zero and then, you know, >> um, read some of the elements that you want to have in it. Um, and we would, you know, we would look into something like that. We don't use it in Still Water. Um we haven't had to but um but if that was Yeah. I mean it certainly um >> is is that included I mean my thought is is that including your number for your funding? >> Yeah. >> Oh for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> All right. >> Um for the architects guidance was two and a half stories. We're at three. Why did we go to three? And can it work at two? >> It it can work at two. It could work at two and a half. Our um our proposal at Three Stories was after diving into really a lot of the listening the the theming studies that have been taking place in the city, the the precedents that they're looking at in terms of um other similar scaled villages and what is precedented from a traditional historical village community. Three stories is doable within the code height limits. It provides a a more eclectic variety of housing which is really common in these small towns. >> It doesn't make or break the perform on that. What I would say is on the in terms of what we're looking at really trying to do is create a variety of housing facades in a not housing. I'm saying a variety of building structures that have a historic precedent. So looking at cities like Stillwater, Northfield, whatever any any of that. Yeah. >> But you're going to say historic there isn't a three-story building in that. That would be the it'd be the tallest building down to Lake Hamilton. There is no three-story building. >> There's I mean there's >> the greenery, but that's >> if it if it didn't go that way, we can call it two and a half stories and you can get those space usable. It really doesn't make or break it. To be honest, it was just kind of coming at from really looking at the how do you hold a corner in an urban fabric? Having something hold that corner in a way that kind of is maybe where we're looking at that >> and I'm just being considerate of the house that's there and everybody else. It's a different mass than exists on the street now. and know and knowing that's an opportunity, but it's a different massing. >> It's absolutely a different massing. And to to be frank, that was one area where internally we're like, I don't know, is this the right move or not? We we aren't dependent on it being it's within 35 ft, which is the height limit, and it's precedented on other structures in town, but we don't need that third story. >> The performer that was provided, um, is that just performer for this building? It doesn't include it's listed as both on the top, but I don't think the numbers include the the brewery and the other building. Is it just for the the retail and residential building? The performer that was provided. >> Correct. Yeah, that is for the new construction. Kind of a static performer where we're at in the sort of >> I I have concerns about retail rents and what rents are going to be there. Um, and Rob Hagstrom, you probably know a little better what current re what current rates are in Lake Elmo and and what local businesses are paying. I know you've got listed at 38 to 40 a square foot for retail. And is that an all-inclusive rent or is that would be part of a triple net? So that your rents would actually be at the end of the day a retail location be paying double that when you throw in taxes, insurance, >> right? and utilities. And so is that 38 to 40 is that that you're projecting is that all-incclusive or is that uh just just rent? >> So that right there is I'm just trying to get my numbers straight on that. That is I believe that is actually just the we didn't break down taxes the kind of the triple net. that is just rent and it it is for us a area where we see a more risk in the perform >> and I think my concern there and coming from my perspective is that's at 38 to 40 that's already much higher than any of the other existing retail spaces in Lake Elmo. So if we're going to bring in an outside business and I don't know where you're at in lighting those up >> are they local businesses or are they more regional or national businesses that can afford that have that bigger deeper pocket to get started. It's a tough it's a tough incubator. It's a tough place for for a new business to get started because the rents are very high. >> And this I mean you can speak to the the local it's this number is for sure for us the in the mix and and how we kind of come up with a sustainable performer frankly. >> Right. Ro I think that's and that's the challenge. If if if you >> you can throw out that number but if it's not realistic and it's not going to bring in a local business then it's not an operating perform. And and so then we've got a neat thing on paper, but it's not >> it's not it's not physically viable. And I want to make sure that that we understand that and address that that it looks nice and it's neat. >> But if you are going to charge rents that >> whether it's for the retail space or for apartments >> that we wouldn't want or don't expect that the el the residents of Lake Elmo can afford or the small business in Lake Elmo can afford, then we've provided a structure that isn't >> doesn't provide the value that we intended it to where we thought that it would. And I think that's an important factor and that's why I wanted you had offered the performer and that's why I'm the one that asked for it because I wanted to see it to understand. >> Yeah. >> Um because again if it if it doesn't work and it doesn't financially viable for Lake Elmo then who's coming in there, >> right? Well, this is the the piece that for us is and I'm I'm you're rightly bringing up and it is an area for us that we're coming up with, you know, some of these uh what we can expect from higher returns on some of the residential can offset some of the costs and even in some ways subsidized, but the cost of new construction is is high. >> Oh, I I I know it. I know it. I live it. So, and so that's why I'm I'm digging and asking. It's a it's a big project and it's neat >> and it looks great on a drawing, but is it is it a viable use? >> You know, again, I think it's our responsibility as committee to say we're going to give you this land for pennies on the dollar. What are you going to provide back to to the community? >> And and that is a it's I mean, absolutely, you're right on. This is the an area for the perform that is something we're working through right now and asking how do we bring that those costs down, >> right? We're we're doing this kind of development in other areas that probably have similar expectations on what you get from Mark or from from the actual market and that's where we're having to leverage just to get new construction built anywhere. We're having to leverage every tool we can to not subsidize it. For us, that's actually we we introduced TIFF as a possibility to ask is this >> is this the kind of thing Lake Elma wants to see the sort of like next phase and is this something that would and I know TIFF is sort of a new thing in terms of like is this something we want to engage in or not but even just allowing that tax base to cut the the debt service down a little bit can help offset for the time until these can be more viable. So, we're we're doing kind of having to pull every lever to almost bridge these gaps because what it's going to come down to is probably a gap. >> And that's where we really are um we're doing this right now in the city of Victoria, Minnesota. And you know, these are highpaying areas. However, we're still needing to use all those tools just because they want to see that more walkable filled downtown areas. And and truly, that's where >> it's it's a challenge on paper. It was almost the risk in showing you the perform is that these are >> I'm going to ask the questions irregardless and I wouldn't the other projects are pretty standalone. they're not looking for leasable space, right? And so that's their own business plan where this is a different project and >> and I think there's more scrutiny here >> in what needs to happen because of that. And again, if you're going to provide if you're going to provide living spaces or business spaces, how does that work? What's the business plan of how that works? And that's where the performers coming in and going, >> "Yeah, this is nice, but can people afford 70 $60 70 >> all-inclusive rent, >> right, >> for small small business in Lake Elmo? And my experience has shown that that's very challenged. Um, and having a wife who owns a small business and knowing the other small business owners in town, that's much higher than they do. And Rob, you you lease space in town and I don't think you're >> Yeah, Pete. Okay. Sorry. I'm sorry. No worries. I'd like to space. Pardon? >> Excuse me. I I would like to to move along. This is a a very long discussion. I think I think the question has been answered to the to the satisfaction of people here. >> Yep. Okay. Thanks. >> Thank you so much. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. I have a question on the on the brewery side. Am I hearing right that sounds like you want to pursue a broader liquor license? You want to have um liquors and cocktails available? And I just come from this my my wife has a gluten allergy and that was definitely something in mind as I looked at these and evaluated them um of what the options are for somebody with those sensitivities. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Very good. I wanted to confirm that. And then uh piggybacking um is just how you plan to ingrain the brewery in the community. We just heard from the previous proposal how you know the the excitement around events and pulling the community there. Um maybe I missed it in the packet as I reread, but uh is that within scope or can you speak about the vision for that? >> Yeah, absolutely. I um so one of the things that that I pride myself on with Riverside Brewing and Still Water right now is is our ability to to host events, you know, um both partnering with with outside organizations as well as doing our own events as well. We also partner u very closely with um with nonprofits as well as other uh for-profit businesses um to to host events and um to support things like we just um the the the uide to end Alzheimer's just recently did a um their their ride started and ended in Stillwater this summer. it was one of six I think on their national circuit and we we partnered with them to do a a registration and packet pickup for for their riders. Um so that that's just one example. There's also a local bike club that meets at at our brewery on you know every um every Thursday during the summertime and we provide them with space. Um we work closely with Valley Book Sellers. Um they're hosting an event this coming Sunday. It's called the Boozy Bookf Fair. Um, so there's there and and I can go on and on about all the different like like connections that we've made and like run clubs and and and with sporting like teams and all this stuff. >> Um I I I definitely want to >> Yeah, we work very closely with the the chamber um Greater Stillwater Chamber of Commerce um council members etc. um to continue to to to push that into the community. I think um the that that's the nice thing about our platform is that you know it's very open. It's engaging. There's no pretense to it. Um it's uh it's definitely uh an area or a location that people want to come to and um and can can you know leverage the space for for what they want with you know very low costs. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. >> You have the gluten-free. >> Oh yeah. In terms of gluten-free options, yeah, certainly. So, uh, from our hard seltzers, um, and then with if we have the that ability with the group license to serve wine, >> um, and, uh, and, yeah, sorry, >> cers. >> CERS, you know, different things like that. So that we could bring in to offer, you know, to meet the needs of those, um, >> for looking for gluten or non-beer options. >> Yeah, I figured. And and yeah, so good to hear you you pursue that part of the vision here. Thank you. >> I have two short questions. one is uh if you get the the bid, when would you think you'd open? Maybe >> um from a brewery perspective, I think um I think a lot of it's based on mostly construction schedule. I think we can have the designs put together and and run through the the various committees that would need to be to happen. My goal would be that we could open um in like early summer of next year, late spring, early summer. I think um in the proposal we had on the calendar, it was like, you know, end of June, early July. Thank you. The other question I have is in your proposal, you mentioned the the uh inclusion of tax increment financing in in your business plan. Uh could you still proceed if the city did not accept that idea? >> Yeah. >> Yep. That is a lever that we can pull and use to really to the previous question offset some of the costs to pay down the overall debt service on properties like this to then have a more competitive approachable price point for for local businesses which is really the motivation for that I think on on this end as well as putting this kind of back into some of the public um public domain areas is sort of how we see using that. But but what what you're saying though is that if the city council did not approve that tax increment financing uh plan, you could still proceed. >> We could. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Got a question on uh the housing like how many units are you guys planning and kind of what's the average rent you would anticipate? >> 8 to 12 in the documents. >> 8 to 12. Okay. Thank you. >> Are there any further questions for the presenters? Well, when you said you'll hire a company to manage the property, um, are you going to give them guidelines of kind of what you want to see in the retail space and the type of clientele for residents or you just going to let them run with it? >> Well, we I again, I manage my building with a different company. I mean, it's a different entity, but at 3511 Lake Avenue. So, we would use that entity as an example to to manage the retail and the spaces in that area. >> I was just curious if the person making the decision on who rents has an interest in Lake Elmo or not. >> Absolutely. You're looking at him. Yeah. >> Yeah. And just to the types of people we we are talking with local businesses and and working with them based on budgets that they would have or could foresee having based on the projected growth in this area. We're seeing that there is room for this to be happening in this downtown area. So um we are picking kind of carefully from local interest as well as new companies. If there are no further questions, I'd like to thank the presenters. Good luck to you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> So, really quick, our third proposal is uh going to join us over team. So, we'll take a quick break and get that set up and come back in five minutes. It's my son's birthday. >> Missing your son's birthday. >> Oh, yeah. >> Dedicated. >> Yeah. How >> or a terrible >> I saw that himself. >> However, I brought him. >> How old are they? finding people at home. >> I'm actually right next door to >> literally changes every >> Which one are you? >> Doesn't change. Oh, yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> So, I mean, he doesn't know that. >> Yeah. >> We got a few of them here. Tomile and Matt Hearn and you know some of the others Can you hear me? >> You're muted. >> I I tried joining via my cell because my video wasn't working. Can you hear me right now? >> Yep. So what? We're gonna have that playback. >> Can you hear me? >> All right. >> Hello. >> I think Regina's on twice. >> None of us know who he is. We don't have everybody. >> Hi guys. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay. Sorry about that. We've been having difficulties with the computer. started permitting my basement. >> So, they're going to share. >> I'm not even thinking about my permit expired. I was like, don't >> thanks Tony for $800 to res. >> It needed to be done. >> Yeah, I know. working on it a while >> and I don't >> as well Ashley >> there's no driver >> I thought I was seizures so they moved my mom my grandma out of his hometown into an assistant was very stressful and I think he was he's been on antress for a few years >> hey Ashley >> just for week in and out of mail as they figed Hi, I came back. >> Everyone can hear you. Just FYI. >> My dad back in the >> Okay. >> So, >> when we have you, we can when we can hear your >> connection, it's really muffled from the other side. Only when >> it was Jason that it came in >> was my >> Yeah. Yeah. the flooring audio for you inside of just that off myself >> when it's under Jason. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're trying to do the whole basement yourself. >> Yeah, it's all done. It's sweet. >> What that's all about, but >> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. I'll go check them and see. >> In town homes are doing. >> I hired the drywall out. >> I can hear you. Okay. >> I hired that out. I wasn't messing with drywall. >> I think I think it'll be okay. I did my hired plumbing so that um some of the tile work >> you got in like I'm a big wine and bourbon guy like this awesome condition seller glass door that was my so if you guys like bourbon or wine >> we're set it's done is like for the price they want was like $5200 I was like last night you just take it choices. >> I know. >> Hey guys, I just want to do one more audio check. I just switched something. Can you guys still hear me? >> Okay, cool. Now I'm going to head home and down guy. in a truck building like two hours presenting them. >> They don't need to present any presentation. They are speaking >> when we were testing. Yeah, >> I can't hear. >> This one is interesting. >> I mean, they speak and they like >> I'm worried. >> I'm worried it's going to go. >> Testing testing. >> Get away for a vacation. >> Went to Scotland. >> Okay. Okay. I guess I guess she's over in Ireland right now for >> Pete. I'm sorry about your name. >> I was calling you Bob. Huh? >> Very much so. She's the famous sister. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. >> She and Mark are great. >> They've uh been able to do to build that business and get some really great clients. proposal is old village social. So we'll see if we get our uh application their team is here joining us on zoom. So, the proposed concept, Old Village social, is a bold yet community rooted vision that celebrates Lake Omu's history, honors its smalltown charm, delivers vibrant year-round activation for residents and visitors of all ages. The plan centers on the adaptive reuse of the historic fire station into a multi-use destination, including a brick oven pizzeria, serving up top tier, award-winning pizza, establishing Lake Elmo's first micro brewery and tap room, and a retro modern arcade. Supported by lush public patio designed for everyday gathering and special events, the adjacent parks building will be reimagined to a creative and inclusive artist designed and built indooroutdoor mini golf attraction. Bringing whimsy and fun inspired from Can Can Wonderland, the space between the buildings will be connected into one cohesive entertainment complex via dynamic public realm, complete with a playground, game lawn, and flexible event space, fostering a walkable community first atmosphere that attracts repeat visitors locally and from across the region. Here you can see this is a uh rendering. This is just conceptual of the fire station is being preserved. So the old fire station, old village social hall in the fire station is a permitted land use be a brick oven pizzeria about 75 to 100 seats artisal pizza and seasonal menu featuring multiple crust options thin thick and gluten-free baked in a traditional brick woodf fired oven. The menu will highlight locally sourced ingredients, rotating seasonal options and housemade sauces, micro brewy, brew pub and tap room. Old Village Social will feature a lively tap room offering 8 to 12 rotating taps of house brewed craft beers, seasonal beer flights, guest taps, and community focused brewery events. Beyond beer, the venue will include a full bar with a carefully curated menu of unique flavor forward cocktails, including signature craft cocktails, mocktails, and creative low and no alcohol options. There's also an arcade bay, event private event space, and signature outdoor patio. This is the rendering of the parks building. This is also conceptual. Parks building is a mini golf experience. It is a conditional use. It is nine indoor holes, nine outdoor holes. There is a flex public space area between the two buildings. There's a creative playground, lawn area, oversized yard games, and programmed event space. The economic in impact the buildout costs are approximately 2.9 million and the estimated FTE not including construction 20 to 25. Parking requirements as we said before there is a waiver provision in the code. The estimated range with this activity is between 58 to 81 spaces. Uh right now the parking plan that was included in the site plan indicates about 28 spaces. You can see here this is an overview of the site and this will be for later. So go ahead and we'll set them up and bring them back over so they can u see you and ask questions and hopefully the audio works. >> All right. Thank you. Can I'm just going to test audio quickly. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you. So, council members, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. My name is Regina Clap and I'm here together with my husband, Rob Clap, and we're here to present on our concept of old village. And we're we're definitely very honored to be amongst the finalists here tonight for the fire station parks building. And I'm sorry we couldn't be there in person. So appreciate the flexibility for allowing us to join virtually tonight. Our concept of the Old Village social is really all about community fun for all ages and uniqueness. We really want to be able to capture and harness that charm of Lake Elmo and then people a place to enjoy and and celebrate with their friends and family. And we want it to be unlike any place else. One of the things that really makes Can Wonderland and St. called brewing so popular is that it can't be replicated. It's it's one of a kind because of the space, because of the buildings, because of the locations. And that's one of the things that we want to bring to Lake Elmo and with Old Village social as well. We want it to be someplace that you would equally be likely to visit with your kids after a soccer game, a date night, on an outing with your friends. And we know that this would draw visitors from across the local area and beyond. and you described our our concept. Uh we do want to repurpose that fire station into a pizzeria, a micro brewery, bar and arcade. The parks building would be that indoor and outdoor mini golf concept and then the space in between a flex space which with a playground with lawn games with the spaces to gather with the ability to program flexible things like outdoor movies or other community events. We really believe that this type of concept is what the community has asked for and we're really excited to be able to deliver it. I'll just open it up for questions. Who who would like to start? Well, I I guess you weren't here, I I don't think, to hear our previous discussion, but I'm asking you as a question, the same question that another presenter had, and that was um with the trends of humans consuming less alcohol, uh costs going up, uh do you see the brewery as being a bit of a risky investment in today's climate? and how do you handle that? >> Uh this is Rob Clap, uh owner of Eclective and St. Paul Brewing in Can Wonderland. Uh a very valid question and one that we've been studying and paying attention to for the last deeply in the last 12 months. And in fact, there's been an article se several months ago, but that talked about all these breweries that have been closing and they actually featured us because we were one of the few breweries that um not only were we not in at risk of going under, but we were thriving and exceeding year-over-year sales even this year alone. Can can or sorry, St. brewing is up 15% over last year. Uh that's pretty unprecedented for uh for breweries. Now that being said, we also were at the forefront of uh going away from the production brewing model and switching to um to the brew pub model when I took that over in 2020. So, we've we've dra dramatic dra uh drastically increased uh our revenue when we switch from that production model into that brew pub model and really making it more of a um a gathering space uh food beverage and beverages that that suit more than just a a beer lover's needs. >> Uh thank you. And and does that mean that 100% of your beer sales will be on site? >> So we we have a a St. Paul Brewing used to be a production brewery. So we have plenty of capacity at St. Paul Brewing. The intent would be that I would say 85% of our beer uh would be brewed at St. Paul brewing and and about 15% uh would be brewed on site at the Lake Elmo facility. So it'd be a micro u micro brewery. >> Oh, thank you >> Jeff. Um, a similar question was asked for another applicant who was going to keep the the second building. How confident are you with the your understanding and your surveys of that second building if it turns out your understanding is a little off and it's much worse? Does that impact your feasibility of being able to do this project? project. >> Um, well, I I brought my two kids through there and uh we ran all around that building and and it survived them. So, um, no, just just joking. U, it's the short answer is no. Um, but I'd also say that I've built a reputation as a entrepreneur and a developer of being able to get creative when it comes to repurposing buildings. And so what we'll always do is is not just take no for an answer. We'll try and get um look at all the different scenarios that we could save the building because that's that's still the cheapest way instead of building from scratch. So, um, but if for some reason it wasn't salvageable, no, that would not deter our our plans. It would just, uh, we just have to pivot and that's what we do as, uh, developers and creative entrepreneurs. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh, what kind of hours are you thinking of for the golf or the mini golf to be open >> and seasons? Yeah. So that's what we really like about this is, you know, for Canan, it's a indoor only uh golf attraction and we definitely see that dip in the spring, summer and and fall months when people just want to be outside, but then we have uh you know the hot days and the rainy days and uh so it's a really nice mix of being able to to come in and um in the winter time for the indoor and then all all during nice season and nice be able to utilize the the outdoor uh course. We would anticipate um being open seven days a week for both both concepts. >> I'm I'm kind of curious. I think it's important and we we've talked about this is the connection that is possible or is important between Lake Elmo Avenue and Lions Park and by occupying the whole space there um with the outdoor mini golf. I'm thinking so how do you secure that from in the winter or when you are closed is it a fenced operation? Are we cutting off the pass through and the ability to go through from Lake Elmo Avenue over to Lions Park with this mass? How How do you secure your How do you secure the mini golf area when you're closed or in general? >> Yeah, we would anticipate um having a fenced area just just for the protection of of of the golf course when we're not open. That a 4ft fence? Is that an 8ft fence? I think that's important to understand in the visualization of what this is. >> Yeah, we haven't gotten that uh detailed on the on the renderings, but it wouldn't it benefits us for people to to see it and not not be enclosed behind a a a large tall private uh fence. So we would find that find that u that balance and obviously work with the city to to make sure its goals are being met as well. >> Thank you. >> May I ask what what you would charge for a round of mini golf? >> Great. >> For seniors >> and kids, >> you're not that far behind, Jeff, easy. Uh there'll always be uh you know some senior discounts u but uh typically it's in that it's in that 9 to12 uh per person range. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And and and I I will add that this is not your average mini golf. Uh, Can Wonderland just got uh two awards, number one in the country for indoor mini golf and another publication gave us the number two slot for best mini golf in the country. So, this is uh not your typical uh just throw up cheap mini golf with a a little windmill. >> Thank you, >> Brit. >> Yeah, so there's a lot going on outside. It's a beautiful space. Um, can you speak to the durability of that area? Um, what you'll do to keep it vibrant and fresh for years to come? Well, uh, the good news is for all of my companies, we we do the, um, extraordinary, and so we have a full-time fabrication shop, a full I have eight people that are employed in my fabrication shop. And so anytime things need repair, fixing, uh that's their job. And then we've also learned in the last almost 10 years that um we have to build things uh really really durable because uh kids are hard on on on these things and and so are uh so are adults. So, uh, we take that into the the planning process before we even build. But then if things um are breaking down, then that's what that team is there. And and if you if you've been to St. Paul Brewing, you'll see that there's a passion uh for the decor and the ambiance and and it's not a normal expense that most restaurants would uh would endure. And it's just for me um it's really important that it creates that aha uh moment and and honestly it's u it's expensive but it's worth it. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? question. >> Yeah. >> Well, simply uh we are not as densely populated as the area that can Canan is in, I don't think. Um is that going to be an issue? >> Um also a great question. Um we we think that there's um you know Lake Elmo and the surrounding uh east metro area uh definitely has enough of the population. So um if you were to ask is you know is it going to be vibrant enough in uh to survive on just Lake Elmo uh residents alone? Um maybe maybe not. But, uh, this is definitely going to be something that we're drawing from a from a larger, uh, community. >> Thank you. >> Was some of the variation in the parking estimate based upon some design still not be finalized? >> Sorry, could you repeat the question? Was some of the variation for the range of parking spots available? Is that because some of the design is still to be determined? Um we we did lay out the the parking that you see as um the best way for us to maximize >> what we're what we're trying to accomplish as far as um you know creating something pretty special. There's certainly the ability to um >> scale that back um to to add more parking, but um personally um I I'd prefer to to look at that as a as a last resort if we just absolutely have to do it because I think um all of these pieces really create that uh special uh special destination. Thank you. >> Hey Jeff, really quick, that ranges from us based on what was submitted and some of it's based on employees. So until we know those answers, >> that helps >> and we and and the other thing I I'll say about the parking, there's obviously, you know, there are some on street and it I understand that there's some uh some downtown parking challenges. I think um that's one of the things that we do as well is is get creative and figure out if there's uh ways that we can uh do some parking sharing with with other businesses that don't necessarily need um as much parking at nights and weekends when when we would be uh more busy. If there are no further questions, I'd like to finish up this part of the presentation. Thank you very much for your input and uh good luck to you. >> Thank you. >> So, at this point before the vote there is a discussion if you want to go forward and have a discussion. Just to be clear, the discussion isn't like the findings that you would do at a typical planning commission meeting. Um this is really high level. Some of the things you like, maybe some concerns. Uh you don't have to you don't have to speak. You don't have to um share those and you don't have to share your vote. So if there's anything you want to say that this is the time and then after that we will go to a paper bot vote. Do you have you want would you like to start? >> Yeah, just by simply saying thank you. We have applicants here who have three amazing and awesome proposals. And I I can't speak for others, but I will. And I would reasonably presume most of us would be fine would be happy to accept any of these three. And that to me is a sign number one that you want to be in our community either because you already are you care about the residents, you are a resident. Every one of these applicants has something about involving the community. So in other words, you listened and I think the council and the EDA made it very clear and staff in in this process that we wanted applicants that are here not just to provide a service with customers and that's that's the lens I'm looking at it from like how is it helping the community and I have a bias. I am a resident with two kids and that's the lens I see it from. I we each have a different perspective that we're coming from. We are on the economic development authority. So we also are caring about does this invigorate the tax base? Does it expand the tax base? Does it help the downtown? Does it add something to it? And honestly, I as much as I'm not going to go into specific details about each of the three, I do want to thank you all because you took the time. You all made investments to put this together. So, you need some kudos for that. >> I'll piggy back and say every one of these like you have great visions um and you're you're seeing those in front of you. I encourage whoever wins to consider some of the interesting, you know, concepts from the other proposals and think of ways that you can incorporate them. to Jeff's point, like we're happy with all these and and they they all could have a life in our community and I wish I could blend them all together and, you know, double the size of the space and we'd have a heck of a downtown. >> I I'll jump in. I I a couple of things that I really value are the experience. all the groups have a lot of experience in certain areas and and I think that pays that's huge in in building a successful uh proposal. I do think that they all seem to have a potential potential strong impact uh on the downtown potentially a strong draw of people uh into town. I think that's vital to our decision. Um, and I think uh my biggest concern is what is the uh long-term sustainability of the businesses that are being proposed and how do they fit into uh into the town? And it sounds like the the presenters are are, you know, admitting maybe we haven't figured all that perfect fit out yet, but we're working on it. And that's uh and that's really critical. But uh but yeah, we've got three great proposals here and choosing one's going to be difficult. >> I'd like to add that I think that any of these three developments would bring more more foot traffic and a more diverse group of people coming into downtown Lake Elmo, which can only help. So, whoever gets it, I hope they are really, really happy with it and that it works out well. I would also ask if you are not the one that eventually council goes with please come back with a similar proposal. We have many opport obviously there's only one fire station that's being sold off but please come back and continue your ideas for this community because that matters. Well, I'll just uh jump in here. Um, thank you very much for taking the time and the effort and the energy to put together the proposals. It's obvious that there was a lot of thought put into that, looking at your at your numbers and trying to figure out how to uh answer the questions that were in the RFP and um put together a proposal that that answered really each one of those. Uh, I think that these types of projects um are will be a value to Lake Elmo. Um, and not just to the residents of Lake Elmo, but I think other businesses that are in the Old Village area will uh experience a benefit from them being here as well. And so, uh, it's not an easy choice, at least for me. Um it's, you know, I'm a little little humbled actually that that uh you know, we got nine proposals and and these three really stuck out and they they provide some jobs. Um they'll provide some tax revenue. They'll be what I would hope is long-standing businesses in in the community and and places where people can get together. And you know, I was just thinking uh last Saturday we had our 100th anniversary celebration uh in this very location and people just getting together and listening to music and and uh laughing and little kids dancing and it's great to see community members get together like that and have that opportunity and I I I think that these these proposals provide that. So, thank you very much. Thank Thank you. I think the next step is to to do the voting. Next step is to vote. So, if you want to go ahead and fill out your ballots, we'll take a uh 10-minute break because you'll fill them out and then we'll have to calculate them using rank choice voting. Then we'll >> just procedure procedure, Jason. Uh basically, uh we're going to put a check mark in the box beside the proposal that we think is number one. And then we're going to put another check mark in the proposal that we think is number two. And that's Yeah. >> Yep. And then you put your name, sign it. >> Got it. >> Hand it in. >> Thank you. >> No hanging chad. There's nothing. >> We need to put Should we put our heads down on the table? >> Heads up. Seven up. That's what it's not. >> Okay. So, we've tallied the vote and I was I was saying >> kill that. >> Are we good? >> So, we were talking about it earlier. This was a rank choice voting. So, you picked your first and your second. Whoever came in third that was they were eliminated and your second place was assigned uh to the other proposal. >> So the initial vote was five for Taff and Ladder, >> three for Lake Elmo Comments and two for OB Social and then when OB Social was eliminated the final is six for Tap and Ladder and four for Ellie Comments. >> I'm I'm so sorry with all the background noise. I can't can't hear what you're saying. >> You can't hear? >> Can't hear. >> No, the the >> Yeah, I know. Yeah. >> Can you please repeat the order? A, B, and C. Which ones? >> Okay. So, Tap and Ladder and the initial vote five, LA Comments had three, and OB Social had two. So, OB Social is then eliminated through rank choice voting, and their second place was assigned. And the winner is Tap and Ladder with six, Ellie Commons with four. So you could discuss and what we'd like to do is make a recommendation and just know if something doesn't work out with the one that's selected, the other two would just go second and third to the council in the future. >> Thank you. Would there be any further discussion before a motion is made? >> Okay. Well, then uh I'd like to entertain a motion to uh recommend to the city council that we uh accept the bid of tap and ladder. >> So move. >> Are there a second? >> Second. Uh all in favor of the motion >> I >> I >> I Is anyone opposed? >> And then therefore we recommend that the uh award be of this proposal be given to tap and letter that is the recommendation of this group the council. council then takes this to the at the next council meeting. How does how when does that >> this will be brought to the council next at the next meeting full council and then moving forward you would we would go into close session discuss specifics. So yes this will be at on the next council agenda >> October 7th. Will there be any opportunity for council to ask questions of of this group as to why the votes were cast the way they were? >> Yes. The uh the person uh tap and ladder should you know uh schedule to be to be there. >> What was the date again? >> October 7th. But I but I meant, you know, for the council to talk to the EDA voting members and Tom as to to enhance why we voted. I mean, otherwise you just have a number six and a number. >> So that was and I know you have two council members, but you know, uh there may be need to be some additional discussion. >> That wasn't uh anticipated and this is being recorded. So if someone want to go back and watch, >> we can we can request council member uh review the video of this meeting prior to the council meeting which often we do for either planning commission or or parks commission's meeting. So >> okay, thank you. >> And and you can talk with them too, like they can call you, you can call them. We're not that evil, but we do answer our phones. So yeah, if you want to chat with all five of us, do it. But on the flip side, the just be aware depending on how it plays out, OML can apply. But just yeah, connect with us. That that's absolutely. >> Thank you. >> I'd like to to adjourn this meeting. >> Is there any opposition to that? >> No. >> No. The the meeting is adjourned at 8:00.