My dad's just gonna go by me there or something. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Just like >> it's so hard. >> I feel like I can't get something. >> Adam, when are we doing the update? >> No. >> My brother-in-law is When are we doing? doing like that before. >> All right, we're going to get ready here. >> Interesting. >> Call the order of the Lake Elmo Parks Commission meeting for December 15, 2025. Call to order. Stand and do the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, [clears throat] looking at the agenda. Uh, is everybody okay with the agenda? Are there comments or changes on the agenda or additions? >> No, sir. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda? >> I move to approve the agenda. >> Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Opposed. >> Agenda passes. Now we'll look at minutes. We will take them individually. We'll start with haha October October 20th. Questions, comments, additions, clarifications. I don't know. I just had one. I don't know if it's a change enough of a change, but under the public comments, the last paragraph talks about additional discussion between council members. It should probably be park commissioners. Yep. Okay. Can I get a motion? If there's nothing else, can I get a motion to approve the October 20th 25 minutes with the one change of council members to commissioners? >> Motion to approve the October 25th uh 2025 uh minutes. I'll second that. >> All in favor? >> I I post. >> All right. Now go to November. Time flies. 17th, 2025. Comments, questions, concern. >> This is more of a comment. It's Let's see. Where is it? um where it's recommend or it says Barrett motion to approve the plan with amendments to be moved to the city council. It just would be nice if the amendments were listed >> in the future so that when we refer back to it they're actually documented. >> Okay, agreed. >> That's in regards to the part or the work plan, correct? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, they could be summarized or whatever. >> Yeah, >> but >> that's [snorts] a good comment. >> Um, okay. Do I get a motion to approve the November 17th uh minutes? >> I move to approve the November 17th minutes. >> Second. >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? >> I I >> opposed. Okay, moving on. All right, public comment. Josh, you like to talk? Do introduce yourself and where you live. >> Yeah, >> you get around six minutes. >> Okay, I will not take six minutes. [laughter] >> Um, so Josh God, I live at 8100 Lake James Trail. Um, so, uh, one of my neighbors had contacted me about, uh, the sound barriers going up, and I think there was reference to, I think, one or two sound barriers. I think my concern is on which side that would be. I just feel that if there was a blockage of that that it would just, you know, it would come back to either my house or someone else's house. So, if there was going to be some kind of a noise abatement of some kind, I feel like it should be on all four sides because no matter what in either direction, somebody's going to get the short end of the of the stick and and probably get extra noise being bounced their their direction. So, I think ultimately I think there's this sports complex. I think many of us have have talked and that feels like a a much better place for for pickle ball to be placed as it is um further away from other residents. Um and I think feels like what we're doing now is just putting a band-aid over this constant issue that at least us in in that area are are experiencing. So I appreciate what's been done so far. Um, but just want to want to make sure we're not causing potentially more issue and pouring more money into just putting a band-aid on a on something. So, that's all I've got. Thank you. >> Questions for Josh? Any questions? >> Thank you. Appreciate that input. >> He'll wait to the topic. >> He'll wait to the topic. All right. Then we're off to commission memo 78 acres, the bullfire tree program update. >> Good evening. I'll give you an update on both the sports complex, the 76 acres, and then the Boulevard tree program that was adopted by the city council. So, we're at the meeting and you know most of what's happened in the past in the recent past since um I was looking into it and the first step was you know after the site was purchased just south of Sun Fish Lake Park the we wanted to look to see oh the capacity with the local sports associations for a sports complex. So we reached out to multiple stakeholders um and did interviews just to see um who was interested and obviously we have you know baseball and soccer seem to be the most interested um in in softball too. So basically we went through that process that was the first step and the next step is going to include uh community planning engagement uh and a financial analysis for implementation and long-term maintenance. as you know what came out from the sports associations they really want to see a pretty expensive facility you know so the idea is like what does this look like long-term maintenance costs replacement of artificial turf if that's the route that the residents the community wants to go so it's important that we have someone who the experience of building these sites uh planning for these sites and looking at any type of revenue generated um that could come from this from this development so just in the background We talked about initial input was four to five baseball softball fields, four soccer fields, multi-purpose lights, artificial turf, um buildouts would possibly be concessions, bathrooms, parking, a significant amount of grading would have to occur. And then also storm water reuse ponds would have to be included. We reached out to other cities. Maple Grove had recently built a baseball s a baseball and a soccer complex. Each one was over $10 million. And our projection just you know back of the envelope is if you were to build something like this it would be at least 20 to $25 million. So we presented that we we showed the we discussed the idea of referendum. This has not been discussed fully. It's just you know for this dollar amount and the next referendum is in 2028. Um so November 7th of 2028. So for the September meeting, what we came out, you know, from the staff point of view is let's start planning community engagement and financial planning in 2026. There was a question of whether we should try to rush it for um, you know, speed up the process and slow it down a little bit. One of the things to mention is just this will include a master plan that considers uses that are not sports related. I just want to make that clear that this isn't just the sports complex. it was just talking to the sports associations to look at their capacity moving forward. Um we're also the city's conducting a national community survey that's not in my department but we are going to include this project in that national community survey. Um and that's going to be done by the administration. So next steps, we're looking at starting the process to find a consultant in January that specializes in comprehensive sports planning, financial analysis and advisory services. It's kind of a quickest time timeline, right? There's a very quick timeline, but June we would like to see a preliminary report, August, a final report, and then in the end of the year, we can start talking about designs and the financial plan, the phasing plan. We haven't [clears throat] set we haven't created the community engagement schedule really the planning schedule. So these are just kind of target times right we like we need to work in how many times we're going to come back to the parks commission um when we're going to the planning commission right council. So this will be a lot more robust moving forward but we haven't really mentioned it in the last couple months um talking about updating providing an update on this park. So, I just wanted to do that before the end of the year to basically say like most of the work is going to start in January. Nothing's really happened since that last meeting. You have any questions on Yeah. Go ahead. >> Um, so this timeline is for like November is November 2026, right? Um, I mean, I know it's kind of a long ways off, but do you have any ideas what we what you would do in 2027 and 2028 through um, August when that referendum is due? So, if it is a project that is very expensive and that's what the residents want, it would probably be leading up towards the referendum um you know, [snorts] working with consultants on on that. But that hasn't even been discussed with council. So, it's difficult to say what that is going to look like, but we want to get it done. We want to give ourselves time just if that is the route that the council wants to go. >> Okay. >> It's possible they could be phased in lower costs and they the funding plan could be different than a referendum. It's not definitely a referendum. I just want to say that because >> Okay. >> totally. Yeah. But if it is, you do have a clear deadline for that >> deadline and we'll be well ahead of the deadline. >> So, you've heard talk here tonight that people are already planning on putting pickle ball courts there. Do you have any comment on pickle ball court additions? Maybe you just didn't list it. >> I'm just here to listen to like for for this process. >> The answer is no. Okay. I I but I'm hearing pickle ball central location. It would be great if there was pickle ball, right? I've heard. >> So there's room. >> Oh, there's that's that's something that's important. There should be room. I mean, the 76 acres should be enough room to accommodate other uses than just what we've talked about. Five baseball field, softball field combo, and then a four soccer fields. >> Thank you. I have a have staff thought about how how do you envision the parks commission being involved in this process as it relates to either [snorts] work with the consultant engagement >> any of those activities how do have you talked about that >> we're going to work through our engagement plan and create an engagement plan and then parks commission would lead that in terms of you know we have I work with parks commission but also planning commission and economic development authority. This would most of the activities clearly is a parks. So we would come back probably want to have more updates maybe have a workshop maybe have public hearings that we could have a town like a town hall meeting in the other room possibly do public hearings in a commission you know at a meeting. We just haven't created the plan yet for that. So, >> okay. I mean, do you envision either all of the commission or part of the commission being involved kind of from start to finish? Meaning >> once the consultants selected, do you see any members of the commission being involved in the the planning aspect of that? >> So, I I think we just have to decide whether we want to do it more of like a stakeholder committee, something that's been discussed on other projects. So that would be it would either be the entire commission or it would be some of the commission and other >> and stakeholders and other stakeholders. >> Kind of like you did for them the master plan the overall when Peter when you were on there and then other stakeholders. >> I think this is very important to do that because as you can see with the pickle ball people there are a lot of those concerns and ideas and stuff that are flowing into us and we need to make sure those are included. Um, where would this put us with the uh Lions Park renovation? Would we have a ballpark there if we had this? Like would we go through all the money just to shift the ballpark a different direction just with this in mind as well? >> It's another great example of where our involvement would be important because we've got what 12 other ball fields. How do those integrate or not into this new mega complex? Okay, so it's a very good question about that those kind of things and we're looking at spending money on Lions and Legion and these parks and these ball fields. Is that worthwhile even where we're doing this major project? So again, another great example where we should be included. [clears throat] >> Do you anticipate? So um so $20 million roughly. I realize that's a rough number and I think you use the phrase very expensive which when I see that number I consider that pretty expensive. Do you anticipate there would be uh as a part of the the potential um community engagement process or other process that there would be other options for something that's not as expensive? And I guess pro kind of a piggyback question is do you have a reference point for something around I think you mentioned Maple Grove. My my context for for this type of facility is Ojiway Park at Woodbury. And I don't know if anybody else is familiar with that, but like what is what is 20 million? What are we looking at here? I have I'm having a a hard time conceptualizing what we're looking at for >> Yeah, I had a breakdown the last time I came to present. I think it was a joint workshop, I believe, with the council. So, the reason I say expensive is because I've heard in the past that, you know, this could probably get done for $2 million, right? And >> just from talking to other cities and and looking at their plans and having the breakdown, if you are going to do a sports complex, a lot of the cost is going to be with grading the site, setting up the storm water ponds, setting up, you know, um the parking and and all the curbing and everything that goes along with just bringing the infrastructure into the site. You're gonna have to do that regardless of whether you go with the best lighting package, the the kind of like the best concession stands, right? Like, and then obviously the artificial turf. So, the artificial turf is where it gets really expensive and for a complex of this size, that's that's where the conversation will have to be had. The advantage is, let's say, if it lasts eight to 10 years, you it's expensive at first, but then you have to have a plan to replace it, right? So the the benefit though is like it has to do with staffing and maintenance. So I've been a part of a booster club. I didn't get that involved, but I know like when it rains a lot and you have to rework the uh the the infields and everything else, it requires a lot of people to be there. So that's going to be the question in terms of who's maintaining the site, how much it costs, how many people are going to have to be hired. So in some ways the turf makes a lot of sense because you get an additional month tournaments like it. So there's more revenue that you can generate. Um the maintenance is extremely low like until that eight year, right? So it was it makes a lot of sense like if you if you go online and just talk to anybody that is trying to sell you artificial turf, they have the numbers. They're like, "If you put this in, it will cost X, but save you X based on the amount of employees you're not hiring to to like work it." So, that that's going to be the big question, but that's where you could cut the cost in terms of the initial buildout, but then you have to make it up in terms of staffing is someone's going to have to staff it whether it's the city or or the association. And then you can always scale it down, too. I mean if if you phase it and just do baseball or not soccer. >> Okay. Yeah, >> but would you think a part of the process might include different level cost options as far as >> Yeah, I've talked to one person, but that's why I think it's really important to bring someone on that has can do that um financial analysis because they may say, well, the the turf is going to bring it's going to cost this, but you're going to see revenues increase because of tournament play, you know, and then you just have to weigh to weigh that. So, that's part of what we're considering. Okay. >> Yes. I just um going off of that, when I see financial analysis in January, that's what I think, but I think it would be great to have that in November as well again with or the in June the preliminary report or something. Um and one of your other slides mentioned kind of like a menu of options, potential pathways, including one that's not even a sports complex, right? And I guess I would I think it would be helpful for us to see the financial breakdown of all of those like that just the so we can help evaluate the tradeoffs and so that stakeholders have access to that information as well. >> Um >> yeah. >> Any other questions? >> Yes. So Jason, let's say it passes the referendum in 20 28. What's your time frame for it being done? And I'm thinking that in in the case of the Lions Park ball fields and things maintaining these other fields, what how far out are we looking as when this new complex could be utilized? >> I think final plans will take a while to get through engineering and then you know with winter it's probably going to take two years. >> So at least 2030. >> I would say probably 2030. >> All right. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Anything else on that? >> Yeah, I I do. Um the you had listed uh one of the bullet points said that other activities besides sports. What other activities were you >> referring to? >> So I'm just thinking of like other parks that I've been to. I mean parks sometimes have issues generating revenue and m uh and you paying for maintenance. So there may be opportunities for revenue generation at the site. I mean, it could be like mini golf putt like a putt putt facility. >> Could be bringing in some type of um concession that's related to that. Could be an amphitheater. I've heard not that, you know, I don't know if that's going to really bring in revenue. >> Yeah. >> Uh disc golf is a sport, but that's kind of like a you takes up space and is more of a nature use. Um arboritums like people, you know, >> would put that instead of a you know, like um botanical garden, which is expensive and a lot to maintain. So, >> and this is way this is getting way ahead of things, I think, but I I do think when I watched one of the replays for a presentation that there was verbiage use something like stadium style with with amplification and stuff like that. >> And I would just point out that we are right next to Sunfish Lake Park. So the the amplification noise um in that regard is probably something that would bring community concern and I'll just state that now. So again way way ahead of things here in the process but >> it's on my mind. stadium light. It's definitely uh >> you know real stadium is extremely expensive but um >> it was basically a comment because >> just for the group like if you create kind of that small little stadium environment for baseball want to see it also for softball. So that's kind of what what they referred to the sports association thought that would be really good for tournaments. So, I've heard the same thing though in terms of how like how many uses, how many people, what's the parking going to look like? You know, the concerns. So, we're hearing that. So, we'll see. >> Other questions? It's a good update. Keep going. >> All right. So, the Boulevard tree program, this just want to give you an update. We um city adopted a tree fund and let's see if the tree so the boulevard tree program and and the fund were approved by the council on November 5th. This started because we received a $50,000 payment from the greater silver schools for the new um new elementary school for tree mitigation. So this is not a fund. It wasn't um created. So we created a new fund where people could pay into that um the tree fund. And the purpose of the program is to provide tree replacement within city rights of ways. So we have issues all the time where trees die in developments. This is in established subdivisions. People want a tree replacement. We don't have a process, but now now we do. So the trees to be replaced must be in the boulevard right away in established neighborhoods. They have to be in subdivisions or areas outside of the two-year warranty period. So just when a new subdivision is built, the the developer needs to keep the trees healthy for two years and they have a warranty and then once they're released, then the city would then replace them. So the process that we're considering is that a resident completes an online form. We have a list of trees that they can select from. They give basic information, name, address, phone, email, and must agree to water the tree. It will be provided with a tree watering bag and a mulch ring. We w we work with HKGI. Um they're our landscape architect and so they're going to work closely with public works to ensure that the site um that the sites do not have utility conflicts and then the trees are planted once a year depending on funding. Um basically looking at May to plant trees and if we don't have enough trees we'll create a wait list. Uh trees are planted by a nursery landscape company with HKGI monitoring the program. We've reached out to a few to get prices um for the program. Like I said, they come with a watering bag. The residents are responsible for filling the water watering bag and then HKGI completes an inspection to ensure that the work is done correctly. So once the company installs, HKGI goes out and does that inspection and then it's up to the resident to try to keep the tree alive. So the question is who's eligible? The main criteria is that the tree must be on public land in the boulevard. There must be adequate spacing between existing trees. Spacing between utilities must meet engineering requirements. And we have requirements on the website. And then the subdivision must be beyond the two-year warranty period. And is there the question we were getting? Is there a cost? There is not a cost. It's u it's based on donations. And what happens if a tree dies after it's been installed? We we are not paying for warranties. They're really expensive and watering is very expensive. So, it's up to the resident to keep the tree alive. And then um what level of care is expected from residents? So, it's basically, you know, watering the tree, make sure it isn't damaged. Um we're going to have a a how-to care guide, you know, when they receive the tree. It's also going to be on the website. So, we're working on right now, we're just our next steps are finalizing the process with the HKGI. We're working on uh marketing materials and a website page. Uh our plan is to open and advertise the program in February and then close uh the request window by March. So, it's going to be really quickly. People just, you know, submit put the request in and then we'll go out and with HKGI and public works determine uh site eligibility and then hopefully plant trees in May and we hopefully have enough money and we'll see where the demand is. We don't know where the demand is, but it's a program that we're going to try to have each year. Um, so any questions? >> I I know you preface it. This is a dumb question, but it says a tree. So, one per >> Yeah, it's it's one per We considered if you own a corner lot and you could have a tree on one side and a tree on the other, >> right? On the other street. That's possible. It's going to be based on demand, too. So, if there isn't strong demand or eligible sites, then we would like to spend the money. I mean, if the point is to plant as many trees as possible. So, >> okay. >> It's a first come first serve also. And then the way the trees are listed, we're just going to list all the trees that we um sent to the contractor and then the resident would just list their preference in order. And then if they don't have a certain tree, it's you go to the next tree. >> You're also taking donations. I see. >> Yeah. Taking donations. Hopefully, it's a pay it forward. That's what our consideration is because the trees are we don't have prices yet, but they're pretty expensive and it'd be great if people could pay it forward and if they receive a tree and just put a little bit more money back into the program. >> Um, are you planning on I mean, you're collecting some basic information um in order for the program to continue for multiple years. Are you planning on creating like some just really highlevel analysis or maps or something so that if you need to diversify and do something other than first come first serve in the future so that you know you know things are just not [clears throat] >> we can adjust I mean what we're looking at right now is using RGIs survey 123 it's an easy platform that we can use and map >> so we'll be able to map the tree locations and and the types and we can look I in terms of doing like an inventory we haven't talked about doing like a >> totally >> full inventory um we could consider something like that it'd be nice if we have enough money and the demand is reasonable and it's just something that we do >> every year and just you know for one month essentially couple months leading up and then few weeks planning. >> Great. Are there any plans to obtain the designation as a tree city? >> I thought we were a tree city. >> Tree city. I don't know. >> I think we are. Maybe not. >> We have to have an arburest. Who's the arburist? >> I don't think we are. >> I don't think we're a tree city, but anyway. Okay, I'll find out. >> Maybe. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> Thank you. Hey, both these updates have been very good. Appreciate both of you. >> Thank you. >> We look forward to your next update. Oh, next on the agenda is number seven, pickle ball noise. Thank you, chair and commissioners. Um, so back in September, the city council reviewed the park commission's recommendation regarding pickable noise and concerns. So, a lot of those concerns came from citizens uh to the parks commission and that led to more of a bigger conversation with city council and um the parks commission in general. So, um, with with those comments coming from the public, we did a did a number of things. So, the council directed staff to reduce the playing hours um at at uh Pebble Park, dis discontinued the use of uh court lighting, remove the rebound wall, and identify and present potential sound mitigation measures for uh further consideration. So that's what I'm here tonight to uh provide some options that came forward uh some options that are out there not only that came from our citizens but also that um you know other local um communities are using. Um so the issue before us tonight is would the parks commission like to recommend one of the one of the sound barrier options to the city council for installation at Pebble Park. So, um, two things when reviewing that park was one, the fence that is currently there is currently made for tennis. So, the footings of that are only 18 to 24 in into the ground. So, uh, any of the options that I provide today are going to need a new fence installed. So, um, I did reach out to Midwest Fence. They were our supplier for our our dog park fence. They did provide uh some information to me and gave me the scope that uh based off they've done a number of these projects in the past is that some of the products that I'm listing here today do weigh about 100 pounds per sheet. So uh the fence that we do have there does not meet the requirements that would that would not only withhold the the product itself but also the wind that would uh be generated from behind it. So, uh, with that said, um, um, a new fence would be, um, would be needed in order to, uh, continue with the sound mitigation there. Um, Midwest Fest did advise that the existing fence wouldn't, um, hold up to the wind loads or other sound barrier as well. Uh they did provide a quote uh to remove the fence and install um ocu or um acousta fence. Um so with that the fence re removing the fence and again um we did have a a citizen already question this. This is only for two sides of that fence. So removal of two sides of that fence uh would be $30,000. that would include the installation of a new fence, uh deeper footings and closer um uh poles in between for um sturdier construction of that. So, um what we' be looking at is a south fence as well as the far east end fence of that of that park um for the closest homes that are there that that initially brought this up. So, we'll go through those options. The um the first one is the acousta block. Now the acousta block is a very firm type of material. It's very flexible but very firm. Um you'll find that you know it's it's about an 8 inch or an eighth of an inch thick. Um it reduces noise about 10 to 12 dB. Now, uh, if you want to get into the longevity of sound and mitigation, everybody has their own ways of there's there's a number of ways of of detecting sound, uh, reducing sound, things like that. So, but I'm I try to keep it the same throughout what I'm what I'm expressing here about this, but the reduction is about 10 to 12 dB based off the typical noise that's there, right? So they're they're they're um this product is reducing it for the means of pickle ball noise. Okay. Um it does have a 10-year application and so the lifespan of it is about you know you 10 10 plus years. Um the visibility of this is I mean you can't see through it. I mean it's it's solid, right? So um you're restricted on your colors. Your colors are going to be limited to black or green. Um, and you know, either of one of those colors is gonna be very hot. You know, you're going to reduce any type of wind that does come through there for any ventilation as well. The second product is very similar. Um, it is it it's literally called uh fence screen. Um, it's it's a cheaper product, but I almost identical, exactly the same identical. Um it just comes from um a a different manufacturer. Again, this one here would have to be put up by public works. Uh this is bought just kind of like off a you know like a manufacturer site. Uh they just supply it. They don't install it. So uh that acousta fence that I presented before. Midwest Fence does is a supplier that and does install that. That is included with their price. So this here would be installed by public works or a a secondary um installer. Uh the cost of this is about $25,000. Um and uh again, very similar product. Might have a different texture to it, but again limited on colors. Um you're limited to black only uh with that with this product. Moving to a different product. This is more generated towards uh the a blanket type of sound screening. So, this does have a fabric or a a fiberglass insulation in it. A lot of times you'll see these used uh for example around a generator, around a law um allowed exterior motor. Um maybe um some equipment um you know, you also see these on barrier walls for uh roads as well. So, um longevity still about the same that 8 to 10 years. um you might see a little bit more um deterioration as far as rodents, things like that. It does, you know, it is more of a cloth. So, as these do sit on the ground, you know, this you might get some mice that chew, try to chew at the bottom of this, but that you will get mice that chew at the bottom of that and likely get make holes into it, make nests into it, gross, pull leaves into it, pull acorns into it, things like that. So, you you know, uh the fasters are exactly the same. There's both um there's holes in them where you zip tie or using a stainless steel uh strap to tie them to the current fence. Um but that's probably the one downfall um that you'll see with that is that you know um I I or I should say I see with that is that in our parks we do have a lot of leaves in the fall that fall there. If you don't have those cleaned up they become um a home for rodents in the fall, the winter. Uh with that snow that covers it up all a sudden they just make an even bigger mess I would say. So, you know, you look at an eight-year application, I think, uh, that could be reduced um if that becomes the the issue in that park. Uh, this product here, uh, these sound blankets from ENOIS, they are about an inch thick. Um, again, quilted fabric, um, fiberglass absorber. Um, again, very limited, uh, visibility through it. You know, 100% no visibility through it. So you are blanketing that off for any visibility from the road uh or from those two sides angle which is your your main entrance area. This next product was brought up by um um a citizen that um attended the city council meeting um is very was familiar with the product. Um the supplier of it I've worked with better suppliers. I mean, not very responsive, but it is um uh a good product. I think they've used it all around the country. Um it is sports sonic guard. Uh it's a 28 decel noise reduction. You'll see that that's a lot um a lot bigger than your typical um your acousta block, right? So, I think one of the concerns that came up from a resident here even today is that, you know, if you're only doing two sides, doesn't that just mitigate the sound elsewhere? And yes, it does. If you did all four sides, the sound still has to go somewhere. It's likely going to go up, right? So, um, every one of these contractors, every one of these, um, these manufacturers that make this these products have all said that you're not going to reduce or get rid of the sound 100%. The sound will have to go somewhere. So, if you're doing two sides, is it going to bounce the other direction? Yes, there's no question about it. Is it going to be reduced? Yes. But um to the to to what point? I don't know that answer. Right. So um this is a little bit thinner than that fabric that I just showed you. It's about, you know, 3/4 of an inch. Um this one does have more options for custom logos, uh colors. Uh we can make it, you know, literally there's a whole color palette of of uh different colors you can make of that. Um again expected lifespan six to nine years. Um looking at the same probably issues with um the rodent issue I believe as it's the same type of product. Um it's going to be the um the fabric meshed in in between. So you likely have something on the bottom over time. You'll likely get rodents to eat through that. Um I think those are our biggest concerns with these two products. Um is it a big issue? Um depends how we look at it. We have talked over time too as part of that um that communication with um city council was to do more of a natural on the outside with landscaping. didn't include that in your packet that I have been talking with our landscape architect and how in addition to some mitigation is that we add additional um plantings things out there to um to assist or help with that as well. Um so we are working with them to create a plan for us to add some it's arbivitas or trees and things around there to help reduce that sound mitigation as well which could and will help on the opposite sides of those fences that aren't blocked. Right. Um, this one does come at a price tag of about 35,000. Uh, the initial price was about 31 and a half uh thousand. That's just again for those blankets that would cover two sides. Um, that extra couple thousand again would be like your fasteners. Um, you know, the additional gate would was not included in there because we do have the gate on that far side. We'd have to have a customizable U section there. So, I did increase that a little bit just to make sure that was covered in there as well. um total cost of the project. You know, uh at city council, they there's a couple different options that they talked about. Initially, when we brought up the pickle ball courts um and their manufacturing, we did have one of the council members authorize the city administrator to approve up to $75,000 of of seller mitigation at that time. Um at our last one, they talked about that range of about $50,000. So, um you know, with what we're talking about with our three options, you're looking anywhere from $50 to $100,000 to uh to implement a sound mitigation there. That would include removing that fence, installing some type of sound barrier if it's a, you know, if it's their um the acousta block, a more hard surface or if you're looking at a more blanket surface, as well as our landscape scaping around all four sides of that fence. So, um cost associated with the project would come from park dedication funds. Um so, that's what we're looking at um for reducing our budget on that as well. So, with that, I'll take any questions or a recommendation from count uh from the commission to to the city council. Um, I did make a recommendation in there. I'm not 100% um you know, that's you know, I I'm open to suggestions on that. Again, the contractor isn't very responsive, but but that doesn't mean that the product product's not good either. So, >> all right, why don't we do the questioning and then have Paul talk. Yeah. Okay. So, questions >> cost again. So, the one that you just had up sports guard. >> Yep. >> I'm [clears throat] just going to default to say we're talking about four four sides. >> So, the estimate for that was 35, but that was for two sides. So, we're at 70 plus the building a new fence. So, >> is when you say a cost of of 50, that's that would be for two. I mean there there isn't anything that with four sides where we're going to get anywhere at 50. We're talking >> not four sides. >> No. Can we do the math quick? So 35 >> times two 70 >> and how much for redoing the fence? >> About 30,000 >> for two sides. So 60 you're looking at 60,000 for all four sides. >> So 130. And that was the least expensive option. Is that right? >> That would be the least expensive option. So that doesn't include on those that that only includes one gate on the one side. So you probably have a little bit more cost on that fencing for that additional gate. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. Other questions? >> Yeah. So Sports Sonic Guard, I was on the website last night. They give a one-year warranty. Do the other products give warranties also? >> Not that I recall or remember seeing uh installation by our manufacturer. they probably would have a warranty uh on their product. So, um so if we did have Midwest Fence install that product, they would probably apply a warranty with it. >> Okay. Um do you know of any other parks around that have any of the these three products? >> So, I did uh the the second one, the the sound block from acoustense was recommended by from our landscape architect. uh that went over into Bloomington I believe it was. So that's who I reached out I reached out to their parks director over there to get information on that. So that is one that was installed over there. >> Okay. >> So in response to that they also they also recommended that the best uh sound mitigation is just to move pickle ball courts were requirements. I kind of feel like we're in the same spot with Lions Park baseball in the news complex and doing mitigation here. Um, and because we'll probably eventually have a pickle ball complex somewhere. So, it's it's kind of like how much money do you want to spend now? How effective is it going to be? I I talked to some friends who play at Shaunie and Woodbury um and and they have um some sound mitigation up. I don't they didn't know which brand it was. It has flowers on the outside. They told me that. So I I couldn't find any online that had flowers on the outside. >> Um and it's been up there a couple years and the neighbors have have not complained as much. So they're thinking it works, but I I have no idea what company it was. But that Shaunie is is further away from houses than Pebble Park is. Um so I don't know. it. I I I I feel hesitant to do something without um talking to cities or people who have experience with it to really see because the websites sound really positive, [clears throat] >> but they didn't have any reviews, >> you know. I I couldn't find any reviews from from cities or pickle ball associations or anything like that for any of the three products I looked at. And that makes me hesitant. >> Yeah. you'll find that, you know, yeah, every every website for a product is is a sales pitch, right? They're looking for a sale. I mean, that's why you promote your product. Um, I did speak with a a larger manufacturer that had acoustic setting. Again, their temperatures and their their their things are all different down there, so they don't run into some of those things that we do. Rodents are bigger. >> Yeah. And their courts are bigger. They They did. I mean, he had I think he had 27 [laughter] I think he had 27 courts in the one situation. So, um so they went away from this to go to more of the blanket uh type um situation. So, >> other questions? >> So, this is not in the budget. >> It's in um No, this would be park dedication funds. Okay. So if we take it >> is is do we know what is the balance of that park dedicate our or park dedification fund? >> Um I could get that to you. I think it's about two million. >> Okay. >> Um the other thing is do we have a cost or anything on the landscaping since we know where we can get free trees? [laughter] >> No. So no currently right now I don't have a total price on the landscaping of that. So again, that would be an addition too because that's kind of like the um you know that in in my eyes I'd be covering the other two sides or help mitigate sound on the other two sides as well as uh in addition to uh just making it all the way >> because the space between the court and the first property line to the east is is that enough to put a mound in or trees or bushes? So, we don't have a whole lot of uh of property left after our, you know, after our courts. I I would say we're probably limited to about 20 feet um on the far east side. So, um yeah, we're not you a burm or something that's out of the equation. You know, you'd be looking at more just shrubs or smaller like arborit trees or trips put in there. >> Um thanks for this information, Adam. This is really helpful. I'm just wondering on timing um for all of these things. I guess if we were to recommend something, do you have any idea of how Midwest Fence might be able to put us into their schedule? Like does um Yeah. >> So timing you'd be looking at early spring. Okay. So, um, you know, as soon as the frost is out of the ground, they can start their projects. So, I would assume, um, he did give me a timeline of, you know, a day to remove the fence, another day to put it back up, and a total additional two days to put up the the block if they were. >> So, kind of like a oneweek practice, >> and they would ask that it be clear for that week. >> Okay. But you don't anticip like this isn't going to be like playground replacements where if we don't make a decision by the fall, it's not happening until >> No, I think that um with a fencing company, you might have a little more lee room. So like if a decision wasn't made tonight and it was made maybe, you know, after our our meeting with uh city council in February that, you know, we could still get on a docket of 2026. >> Okay. >> What about our C CIP? or we what's the time I forget the time frame forgetting >> CIP for um that we'll we'll begin talking about that it would be in June so the CIP is approved for 2026 uh by city council um tomorrow night initially so for 2026 so this is coming directly from parks dedication fund at the direction or at the request >> unless it's beyond like 2027 Other questions? >> Um, the only thing I'm a little bit concerned about is the effectiveness of it. You're saying 10 to 12 decimals. That's about half of the it's going to reduce the noise by about half and then um the Sport Sonic Guards boast 28 28 decel reduction, which is there's that just that there's no way in effectiveness that can be true when it's going to be two sides and when people are yelling. Um, just overall I think if you even if we do cut this by half the decimals, it's still going to be piercing, especially with people screaming. And I I just don't think it's really going to actually fix the problem. like to um like they were saying earlier the band-aid [clears throat] it's just I especially with new plans coming in it doesn't seem very logical to put all this money to take all the money away from different projects and put it into this when it's overall just not going to fix the problem. >> Other questions would like to have Paul's talk right now. Paul, you get six minutes and introduce yourself and where you live. Uh, my name is Paul Boltman. I live on Deer Pond Court and my my home is uh just to the northeast of the courts at Pebble Park. I'd like to start by first saying that uh I'd like to report that the compliance with the 7 pm ending time this fall was poor. They usually continued until dusk at and when we when that was when that was implemented that made to let them play until 8:00. There were occasions where they played into twilight. I don't know how they did that. I didn't go over to see how they were doing that. It happened a few times. Based on that, I fully expect them to be playing until 10 p.m. at the height of next summer. So, the only thing we gained from having the lights off is to get rid of the light pollution that some of my neighbors were experiencing. And in the fall, dust comes early, so there's a slight shortening of the play time in the fall. I just [clears throat] wanted to report that so you knew that was happening. In regard to sound barriers, I start with the mention of landscaping as a sound barrier. While I'm an advocate of planting trees for many possible many reasons, they provide little or no benefit for sound mitigation. From what I've read, you would need 200 feet of contiguous trees to have any effect on the sound. I have about over a 100 feet of tree cover between myself and the courts and it has no benefit as far as sound. As for the sound barriers applied to fences, I am puzzled by the concept of putting it on two sides when we have neighbors that are affected on each side, each direction. Um, the closest resident is would need barriers on the east and the south. The second closest neighbors would need a barrier on the west and the third closest neighbors would need a barrier on the north and the east. [clears throat] Oh, and by the way, the closest neighbor informs me that he wanted to convey that he's totally against the barriers because he doesn't believe that they'll solve the problem and it would block his view of the park and he wants to maintain the view of the park. >> [clears throat] >> I personally remain skeptical of the efficacy of the sound barriers. It would have I would have really liked to have been aware of where they've been implemented so I could go and check for myself and I wasn't able to find out where they might have been used in the Twin Cities. If I had, I could definitely say I'm for it or against it, but I wasn't able to do that from what I've read. Noise levels travel over the top of the barriers and some of our affected neighbors are their homes are higher than the courts. My second floor is higher than the fencing and um some of the barriers the companies they boast a 50% reduction in the sound levels. To me, that would be of no benefit. It's not the loudness of the sound that's the problem. The problem is the impulsive sounds of the paddle on the ball for much of the day, which is known to have detrimental health effects. If it's reduced by 50%, I still have that. There are uh multiple stories from across the country of residents being dissatisfied with the results of the sound barriers. In some cases, deep pocketed residents have been successful in having pickle ball courts removed through injunctions after the municipalities have sunk a lot of money into sound barriers. >> [clears throat] >> The placement of the pickleball courts in neighborhood parks is a serious problem for the neighboring homeowners. The placement of the courts in Pebble Park was a mistake. I project no ill intent on the part of the city. As a matter of fact, the city I'm sure the city did it with good intentions. It's unfortunate that the 600 foot recommendation of the 2024 Lake Parks plan did not precede the decision to put them in Pebble Park. Nobody likes to admit mistakes, especially when it involves significant financial outlay. I understand that. But I asked the members of the commission and I asked that you ask the city council if they if you are really confident that addition of sound barriers will be sufficient or will it merely pile one expensive mistake on top of another. Today you began began discussion of the design of the new Lake EML Sports Center. And to me, this is an incredible opportunity falling in your lap to solve this problem. Most cities wouldn't have this kind of timing where they could solve a problem in such a good manner. Pickle wall courts placed in the center of the new property could be placed 1100 ft from the nearest home. Now I understand that the main purpose of the acquisition of the property was for ball fields and soccer fields, but pickall courts don't have much of a footprint. I understand be more parking would be necessary, but the courts themselves don't have much of a footprint. And with that, I I end my comments. I I I sent you um some observations of how the Apple City of Apple Valley has created a pickball fener in center in their sports complex and migrated many of their uh neighborhood courts onto their sports center. And if you didn't get that email, let me know and I'll resend it to you. Thanks for listening. >> Questions for Paul. >> So, what I hear from the community is you'd pre you would uh preer not spending all this money and waiting for the movement to the park. the big ballpark. That's kind of >> unless the barriers would totally eliminate or mostly totally eliminate. >> I heard totally. So, I'm going to go with you on totally. Right. >> Okay. So, that's you guys >> representative position. Okay. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Any other questions by the commission? Do we have enough to make a motion one way or the other? Um, I have a question. Has the rebound wall been removed? >> It has. >> Okay. [clears throat] Not hearing a motion. If you want to direct staff for additional information, we could do that. >> Well, I'll make a motion then. I recommend that we defer this decision until after the February meeting with city council. And during that time, additional uh project technical information be gained especially on the effectiveness uh to collect more uh city input. That's a long motion. Uh but to to summarize, put it off until after the February meeting staff to get more information and we will talk to the city council and be ready to discuss this again after that meeting in February. That is my motion. Do I hear a second? >> I second it. >> Discussion about that motion. >> Do you want to get more information from staff about what? Well, that was a long rambling thing I was going into. It didn't make sense into the motion, but anyway, the questions that have come up here tonight, effectiveness, wear and tear, true cost, is there anything better? What are examples around that we can go feel and touch and simulate sounds? It's >> going to be pretty hard this time of year. >> I'll talk to the neighbors who live nearby. >> Talk to the neighbors. Gather neighborhood input. Okay. Um, one other thing, I mean, yeah, close to $150,000 to do something on all four sides is kind of eye popping as well. Um, and the comment was made in thinking about the sports complex. You know, you have staff trade-off times for something like AstroTurf versus the product cost. And I'm just wondering if you could also include or like if um there is if this motion carries and there's time to get some more information to think about what some type of enforcement or something like that on ours might look like. Like what what would the staff cost on that be? Like what if you purchase something besides product >> or other creative ideas >> like putting a lock on the gate at 7 o'clock. >> Yeah. And sending someone out or I don't know. >> And I mean we're just talking about Pebble now, but are you know we've had a couple of other parks that have expressed concerns, >> right? Are we setting ourselves up for multiple short-term fixes? >> Well, and I'm even I'm even concerned about the park in the big sports park because we've there I'm sure there's going to be noise issues there. And so, but that's also why I think the information is good. Okay? Because we'll have that information in our pro in our pit in our pocket when we go and we potentially build this new thing. >> So, I personally don't need more information. I think it's I mean fairly clear that the the amount of the decimal level is would be reduced but it just wouldn't be eliminated. I think that four sides with the cost it it just financially does not make sense. I think that's leaning on the over the cost of it's similar to what we the cost was to put the pickle balls in the in there in the first place. I don't remember exact number but >> probably the cost of uh oh tab one right so I think it was about a half a million for both of them >> pebble being a little more expensive >> I I just think that's cost prohibitive to in my mind the question is >> when do we just convert it back to tennis what's the timeline for that that's what I'm thinking it it to me I don't uh >> I think tennis is not there either >> well something has been there else. >> Well, I I think it's not going to work. But anyway, the reason I I I agree with you on the cost. I don't think it's going to work and I agree with him on the other um parks that we'd have it just be a huge deal. Um but like I said, I can see needing this information going forward. I believe that maybe somebody will change your mind. You you get some input that says, "Hey, we don't have this thing in 2030 approved. hasn't gone through a vote. Maybe we should do something now. So that's why I made the motion. But I agree. I don't I don't think it's worthwhile to spend four swing sets for some sound mitigation things. Other comments about the motion? So the motion is to defer. >> Well, you're you're not just tableabling it. You're looking for additional >> and additional information. Right. I mean >> with no real specificity >> to the amount >> and I and I think staff is going to hear varying answers from different communities depending on many mitigating factors where their courts are size neighborhoods. So, it's not gonna it's going to be difficult to I I like to your point, Peter, I don't know how helpful that will be. Okay, we've had a second motion and a second. We're going to vote on it. All in favor of the motion to defer this until after the meeting with the city council in February and for staff to do some additional studies in this area. Say I >> I >> opposed. >> Nay. >> Three, two, four. There we go. >> Communication updates. At our last uh parks commission meeting, we had one of the commissioners bring up just a opportunity to let's review our 2025 work plan um and just kind of see what we got completed and maybe what we missed. Thought a communication is the best part to put that because we won't be making any motions and recommendations. So um Oh, that's nice. Make sure that we have So, um just wanted to review the 2025 uh the our work plan for 2025. Um I'll just go down through the topics like we have in the past. Um and you can ask questions at the end or if you want to pause me throughout you can do that as well. Uh again, uh the Washington County Greenway Trail Plan um we didn't have uh Cart Carter Carson um come in in 2025 to talk with us, but always been on our our watch list, right? So that's why he is coming in February 2026 just to kind of give us an update on their uh their CIP, but also just to keep us aware to engage in any conversations that we can to um help to make sure that we're still at the table for that conversation when that does that does come up. So um so I have been inviting. So two years ago he was in our in our meeting. Last year he was not. Uh but uh in 2026 he'll be back on in February. So second one was outline options for additional parking at Sunfish Lake Park. Um we did um remove uh a section probably about uh was 75 ft long. We increased parking there by adding some boulders in there on both sides. So, um, we worked with the Sally Manzer Center and Tony as far as the placement of that. Um, you know, we just didn't want to make that a wide open parking spot. We wanted to make sure it was still controlled. That's why we still continue to put the Burm at the very end. So, can you continue continue traffic down and around, but also add those boulders in so people couldn't just continue to loop around and make a a playground out of it with vehicles, right? So, uh, we were able to add that in 2026. Um, provide additional parking options for Pebble Park. If you remember at the spring of 2025, we did uh remove some of that sidehill to make additional parking. We planted our wild flowers on that uh that east wall as well, uh including some um new fencing uh to engage parking um on the not on the entrance of the of the of our parking. I think that was our biggest problem when you came in the approach. People were parking all the way down almost to the entrance or around that curb. So, we're really limiting our our drive aisle. Uh we removed that uh made additional parking there on the west side of that. Um probably think we probably added maybe about um 10 to 12 additional parking spots on that side. I think it's in the long run I think we it did did very good measures with that. So Clyice Park playground replacement, we did replace that park up on the north end of town, including a a trail access trail from the roadway to that. I think that project turned out really well. Uh, as far as a playground, about $125,000, additional um, uh, things in that included some, you know, some seating, uh, blanket, erosion blankets, that trail, like I said, uh, garbage cans, um, replacement, things like that. Otherwise, overall, that project turned out really nice. I think, uh, people in that area are really, really pleased with that playground. >> I see people there all the time. >> Yeah, I think every even even before the black turret was put back in, I think we had kids out there. So, >> it was approved by a 9-year-old I spoke to. So, [laughter] >> yeah. So, and yeah, we've heard great feedback from there. Um, and I don't want to age people, but a lot of a lot of u grandparents have called and said, "I love taking my grandkids there now." So, um, >> so it is, you know, that area is not an old part of town, but um, we'll see that up in that area where, um, that's likely where that's coming through, but I think as as generations start to move in, we'll see that park being used just as much as any other. So be a good addition. Um Reed Parking lot uh reconstruction expansion. Again, we worked with Bolton and Mink uh our our engineering firm to really head that project for us. We gave them the scope of what we needed. However, they did a lot of the uh the grading, you know, set set for grade to make sure that our water is running off correctly. Um and that did incorporate that new sidewalk, that new crosswalk, all that. So that's what really why we really got them invested in there. A lot more cost upfront, but well worth that time and effort uh for that just because um staff as well as public works staff isn't that's not their scope, right? I mean we're not engineers to set grades and you know set stakes and you know those measurements and make sure it's ready for uh approved contractor to come in and do and then be out there to kind of monitor those projects. So, um, again, probably more money up front in order to do that, but well worth that time and money. I think it turned out to be really good in addition to I think we added about 8 to 10 parking spots on that parking lot as well. So, uh, update and review the park reservation policy. Again, we reviewed that on a couple different occasions here with the parks, uh, commission. Again, we'll review that again tomorrow night, actually, with the city council with your guys' recommendations. um at tomorrow's meeting. So, outline park options for the new Northstar Development Park, explore the trail connectivity options uh with Sunfish Lake. So, um in 2025, we did uh open open up that park um for residents to to utilize the nature trails in there. We did talk with the neighboring uh community, Hamlet, uh to actually try to to make that trail connection from Sunfish Lake Park all the way over to Sunfish Lake. So, oh, sorry, from uh Northstar over to Sunfish Lake. Um we did go through about two to three weeks of conversations with that um with that HOA. A lot of it was, you know, time frames on when they were meeting as a group with them. um it did come back um with a with from their from their development as not interested at this time. Uh so I don't think that that conversation's totally off the the mark. I think um I think there's a lot that happened in that time. Not only I mean you have this Northstar development coming in. There's a lot of houses coming in. You have everything all the buck removal that we just completed at Sunfish Lake. So you had a whole lot of changes there that were, you know, if you ask anybody that lives next to it, it's like, holy god, what is happening around us? Right? So I think as things settle down a little bit um and become more adaptive to our surroundings, that trail might make a little bit more sense or might be more pleasable for that HOA uh to come um to come in with a working relationship with the city to make it happen. Um there are some challenges to that. There is some steep uh some steep uh um hills back there and ravines and stuff like uh so it would be very challenging but uh it's very doable as well. So I think it's uh won't be something that you'd probably take your wheelchair down but uh for those that are hiking in the Northstar it wouldn't be any different than um that trail going to um Sunfish wouldn't be any different than that. So, um, so I think very similar to a couple other options we have in the community. We'll keep it on our radar, maybe keep it on the back burner for now, but maybe approach it at a different time. Uh, plan and develop the 2026 Lions Park updates. So, we did go through the playground updates with that with approval. That'll happen in 2026. Um, we did discuss uh the future of Lions Park. you know, as we come up, we I kind of threw out those items that we do have the the warming station. We have the, you know, our our pickleball ice rink that needs to be um rehabbed as well that's coming up as, you know, would have came up in 2026 27. Um, including a trail and the parking lot expansion and paving. Um, we did kind of table that as a as a commission to re reather as a group to say, "Hey, let's do a big possibly a mini parks master plan for Lions." So, um, so that will happen in 2026. Uh, we'll put those other projects on the on the back burner to kind of get those that development back to see what makes sense with that park uh, and what the future holds for it. Right. Uh so the only thing uh for 2026 for Lions Park would be the playground replacement. Uh last one on there was provide a concept plan for Ridge Park. Uh I provide an initial concept plan for that. Um still working with Bowling Mink to provide that last concept plan with that. Plan to bring that back again in early January or February. uh again kind of got some mixed feelings on what we had presented versus what maybe some of the residents were expecting or what they got out of the survey that was sent out. Um, I think in general, again, our our our I think even the cherry even said it was like our our big concept at the time was like how do we improve parking and where do we put the playground set, right? And then all the rest of this can come at a different time and you maybe our our our surveying stuff was like, hey, we're going to throw all this stuff in there. I'm not sure that's kind of maybe the feedback I got from them. So I think you know in general we come back with that second uh concept as we look at you know general areas to say here's potential in a phase two phase three section of this but our primary purpose again was you know improving the parking lot area where to go and then our access to that um playground if that's uh what we plan to do. >> Yeah that's the real challenge of neighborhood feedback. I mean there was people in there who basically didn't want anything in there. >> Okay. because it all created noise and when I went back and talked to the one gentleman who's got me well well that's not really what we meant but to try and you took a survey and that really didn't get what they meant. So >> yeah, >> I think a good thing about coming back with this is hopefully they'll figure out what they mean by their input. >> Yeah. >> And I think it kind of goes based off what we talked about too. Sometimes people take ownership to a park because it's right next to where they live, you know, with our parks master plan. That that park there is going to be a community park because of accessibility, right? It's off a major freeway or freeway, major road, right? So accessibility to it's going to be great. Uh future, you know, future uh development to the south as well as potentially a roundabout and access into there might be a better a better means as well. So um when we take small ownership to things, we got to look at a big big picture as well to say what are we looking at for a community and not just for a small group of uh residents as well. So, so more to come on that. Um maybe maybe on my part letting the dust settle a little bit on that topic, but I'll bring it definitely bring that one back uh early 2027. Uh so that way um and the and the other thing with that one is is you know with our communication with city council is we do want to set up that priority of where we want those playgrounds and it's going to be tough to say yep throw that playground in then we're going to do the priorities right so we want to bring definitely talk about those priorities that being a community park is likely on that priority list a little bit higher but don't want to range out to like hey let's throw it in there until we we set those priorities first. So might be right along the same type of time frame with the with the priorities as well as um um discussing that park. So uh maintenance again this is going to be what we do as public works staff. Our parks needs assessment. Again that's a lot of times done in that spring are just going around addressing those needs at every park of you know damage items, things for the winter winter. um have things uh worn out their welcome or worn out their life use? Do they need replacement? And reassessing those um in those funds coming directly from the public works budget on those uh for replacement. Asphalt trail maintenance inspections, crack filling and inh again inspections twice. Uh we uh again done by public works staff going to be in collaboration with Bolton and Mink in 2026 doing that. they're taking a little more lead on our on a lot of our um our asphalt maintenance. Um so um but again referencing 2025 that's done by public works staff. We go out and do the um you know any patching initially but crack sealing and uh fog sealing things that done by a contractor. No fog sealing was done in 2025 looking at a bigger project in 2026 and 27 for our trails uh throughout the whole city. So, more recommend that. Uh, playground and playground inspections. We got two playground inspectors, including myself and one other individual. Uh, that's done on a monthly basis. Uh, they're rating up work orders uh ordering parts, fixing equipment throughout the year as as um on our playgrounds. Uh, specifically removal of infected ash trees in city parks. Again, last winter with the lack of snow, we really pushed to do a lot of our our trees in our um not only in our developments, but our roadways. That included our parks as well. We did a a number of them. Is there still some up? 24 early 25 um to remove a lot of those affected ash trees in the community. Outline the future park recommendations following the 2024 parks master plan. Um probably a little bit light on this one. I think our biggest focus is at the very end on the finance one where we talk about the outlining for the park superintendent uh position. We did meet with city council again on a on a with a meeting uh to discuss that what our roles were, what we expected of that position and how that position would help the parks department as a whole. So um I think um but we always reference that park master plan. I think a number of of you guys have always are are always looking at that for decisions as well as looking at that as like just in general of our Lions Park. It does reference that. So, a good point of bringing that up what why don't we now would be a good time to do that parks master plan. So, it's always a good reference to go back to and just kind of keep an eye on and uh just refresh our memory before so it doesn't end up like we've always talked about just another book on top of the shelf that gets all dusty and then we have to brush it off and um and redo it, right? So, um, continue as a commission, as a as a staff member here, myself has continued to bring up and review that to see if we're still in line with our with our, uh, goals for our division. Uh, additional park incentives, uh, hold that parks commission and city council. I think we actually did that later February last year. Um, so again, that's going to, uh, come up in 2026 as well. Um, I think I talked about it before, but we we probably missed it. um in my first few years here and maybe even prior to that with change of maybe some administration and things like that, but I think uh um at the request of the commission, we kind of put that back on the docket and has been pretty consistent here the last couple of years, which is good. So, I think it gives you guys a um a good insight of what expected of the city council, what city council expecting you as a commission, give you feedback so you guys kind of direction what what we're looking at as well. uh park tree planning. I think um I think we've the last couple years I mean it's been brought up by commissioners to let's continue planning attorneys when we can as much as we can right uh we've included a lot of that in our our our any projects that we do we include a minimum of of four uh with every project but also adding additional trees even like you know to pilot park uh none of that there wasn't anything up there besides our volleyball that was included uh two years ago but uh we continue to add trees trees in those open areas where um where it's well needed and uh we're we're removing trees because of emerald ashbor and other reasons. So um next would be oversee the efforts of the buckthorn removal of salmon zero center. So again in late 24 early 25 there's a lot of buckthorn removed there. Um, we as a as staff continue to work with not only Sally Manzer Center, Tony uh and his staff, but as well as um Stantech, who's the main contractor out there for those efforts to uh not only keep you guys informed. That's why I brought Tony back in 2025 here a few months or month and a half ago. uh just to give you an update of the things that are going on there. What's their progress, you know, what's their future in the next two to three years, where their grant processes and where um where their funds are set, uh for the next few years on that as well. Um next one be create a new parks page on the city website. So, uh in 2025, we did get a new makeover of our website, including a new um new contractor all in general. So, I think we've seen some major changes there, including our GIS, which I went over with uh the commissioners here two months ago. Um, just to kind of give an outline of, you know, some new things that we have uh implemented in there and and just our options that we have uh forthcoming that that that we can add in there um to make make more people go to it, make more people utilize it, not only on reservations, which we'll put in there in um in 2026, uh but also just uh better asset management or what what what are at our parks so people when they go to those sites they know what's what's exactly there outline the options for the park signage and wayfinding. So we've done a probably not as much as we have you know I I kind of reference back to the website a little bit with a couple different options at that. So, not only are we using utilizing that web page for um uh access to our sites, but also those map plannings and how to get from uh site to site. So, not not specifically signage on the roadway. And I think that's what uh some of our commissioners have asked. Um not additionally that, but more on the bigger scope of like how do we go towards that website for our our way finding and and knowledge of where our things are. So pro possibly some improvements to do uh there. Um biggest question that we get back a lot of times is is people are oblivious to signs anyway. Are they going to see this, you know, if we put a park sign there? But um like I said, we probably lack a little bit on there, but um potential for some improvement there. Uh and the last section was finance uh updating the capital improvement plan. We do review that in um actually our finance director request a little bit sooner. So we were reviewing that probably in April or March, April instead of our June deadlines that we normally have in the past. So uh continue to think of uh items as we progress as a as a community to include in there as we go forward uh for that uh that CIP plan. Uh provide budget updates as needed. Again, I failed to bring give you a solid number tonight on what we have in there, but um I can provide um you know those more at a regular basis, meaning a lot of times I I think I have brought them I include them in the report of like what we might have in there. I didn't on this one, but um potential for some improvement on that as well to make sure you guys are aware of what we have in there uh for funds and future funds to uh forthcoming. So, and the last one again I touched on a little bit before was just that outline for the needs uh for the park superintendent staffing position uh and following that 24 parks master plan. Did talk about that again with city council as well as getting your recommendations what that per what that title would mean to you guys as well as what it could how it could help public works. So, um any questions on that? Hopefully I answered some of the questions that we had from our last meeting on there. So, >> no, that was my request to review. So, thank you. I mean, it just shows how much has has actually been accomplished. So, great work for 2025. >> It's good. >> It's good. Any other questions? >> Any other communications? >> Yes. One second. >> I have a question about the timeline for uh the new hiring a new public works director. >> Yeah. >> Are you asking? >> I'm asking. Yes. >> So, uh, they're currently working on the public works director themselves, right? So, they'll, um, so I think our city administrator will work directly with that new director to see what that what that umbrella looks like, what they how they would like to form out their what what they believe public works should look like, how that strategy should look like. So, I think after we get that person on on board, those conversations will start to will start to come. So, public works director, I think we're going through interviews here between now and and the Christmas time. I think you know that might lapse over the new year just based off not only staff schedule but application schedule as well. So, u coming into June. So, you might be looking you might be looking at our early 2026 um recommendation as well as you know acceptance um and then final person coming on board. So, >> okay. Thank you. You had something else? Yes, I do. Hold on. I'm looking. [clears throat] It's like a walk through memory lane. I need it because otherwise I'll forget the dates. Um, yes. So, just a reminder in January, so we got we're going to have um uh holidays kind of screw up our schedules in January for our meetings. So, um reminder on in January, it's the 21st. >> 21st, it's a Wednesday. >> Come to February, uh February 3rd will be our February 3rd is a Tuesday. That will be the That will be the workshop with city council and the parks commission. >> And that'll be at 6 PM. Is that right? >> 6 p.m. The next parks commission meeting will be uh back on the 18th uh Wednesday of February. Okay, >> good. So, I just wanted to give you those heads up. I wrote I I had them written down in that PowerPoint in the last screen. Now, I can't find it, but just wanted to make sure we're we're squared away on that. So, just some other communications. Our ice rink did open up last Friday. Um, every year with ice rinks, put in the time, put in the effort, gets cold, perfect, and then you get 354 degree weather the next week, right? So, um, we're going to have some melting here this next week. I think it's still going to be okay uh through this spell. Um guys have been working hard. Got that running. Um should be up and going. Had some communications already with um users. Um it's good. We do have a pleasure rink next to the the rink this year. So um I think with our communications that we got from not only commissioners but also residents is like sometimes when the hockey boys come in there, they get a little rough and rowdy and so when the families are just trying to skate around there, it gets a little gets a little congested. So having that pleasure rink might elude one group to separate from the other, which is helpful. So, first year doing that pleasure rink uh this way. So, um I think it'll be good a good test to see how things go with it. So, I think it'll be good. >> And we shovel those, right? >> Say that again. >> We shovel those. >> Yeah, we do. Yep. >> Yep. Actually, they go on there with a a sweeper, right? Sweep them after snowfalls and stuff. So, >> uh talked about reach park planning. Uh staff is grooming trails as well. So, we do groom those trails and Reed, Sunfish, Pebble, Deatraville. Um, and I missed one, but um, so they have been grooming those. We, uh, send the groomer out twice for uh, those parks. So, uh, continue to use our trails, uh, in those, um, >> but we haven't added in, um, Shing, uh, >> Schulkins, >> Schulkins, >> Schulkins. We have not groomed that one yet. Um, main reason why I haven't groomed that one is we did ask the developer to do some major um um rehab on their on their erosion control. So, and if anybody's been in there before the snowfall, they did some m they had a lot of erosion control issues and so they revamped that whole side with all new erosion mats and things like that. So, I didn't want to go in there and rip it all up and then they're saying, "Hey, you just made us put this down. Now you're taking that back out." So, um I am waiting for a little bit more snow before I run that groomer through there. Is do we do go through with the track machine and then that drag that comes across there. So, um I am waiting for a little bit more snow before I go in there, but you can expect it to be groomed. >> And they walked those down. remember one year they were leaving pointy sticks in the walkway after they went through with the grooming equipment. So uh in the past our grooming equipment did have like a ski um adaption to it. Right. So it uh that broke I think even before I started. Okay. And it's never been used. I know we had a couple requests for it in the just in the last couple years. You know just maybe an individual asked if we still do that. um our equipment ain't set up for it anymore um hydraulically and things like that. So maybe in the future when if we have a different snow groomer and it's adaptable for that, but um I don't foresee that coming. >> It just left, you know, some branches. >> Yep. >> That would stick out into the middle of the trail that had been whacked off and of course they look sharp. That was at Reed. I remember. >> Oh, sorry. I'm thinking a whole different topic. So, but that's what I'm talking about is then you had I think it was you or whatever walk they walked it after they >> uh did the grooming to see if there was anything because all it took was somebody to to push it out of the way. >> Push it out of the way. Yeah. >> Right. >> Um our sledding hills have been extremely popular in the last couple weeks. Uh not only at Tablin, uh we do have them at Carriage Station and um Hidden Null. Probably not highly used at Hidden Null as it would be Carriage Station. and um in Tavlin, but very high used, very highly used in the last couple weeks. Um our light up Lake Elmo event happened um on the 5th. Um very successful. Um we had public works staff out there. Um um I think in the future that might come back to the parks commission. So just be prepared as we have that those conversations um just maybe as a higher level of what we can provide as the parks commission to that. Yeah, I've talked to the president of that group and invited her to come and speak, >> but haven't seen him yet. >> Yeah, >> I think it's a good idea. >> So, yeah, just maybe maybe future of possibly moving that over into Lions Park and maybe having, you know, you know, with that talk and maybe implementing maybe some resources in that, you know, that Lions Park master plan is like how can that plan help future of an event like that, right? If it's if it's that revamping that warming shelter, could that be an assistance to that light up Lake Elma event or you know is there more areas for plugins for lights or whatever it might be, right? So, uh think of events and things like that that could occur could occur there outside of the baseball season or you know their playground season or hockey season that um could implement in that in that small master plan for >> Can I make a comment about those things? I I think having directed traffic at uh the 4th of July and the light of Lake Elmo, I think those are prime times for us to get out there and get community um engagement and especially as we're looking forward to possibly having a referendum for the sports complex. Um I I think that'd be a really nice I don't know it would be do it in conjunction with some public works people, but to be there to provide information and get feedback. I just think it it's there's a lot of families. There's a big age range and it would be a really good PR for our commission. >> We would help Jason do it. [laughter] >> That's a great I think it's a great idea. >> Um I know you put the ice rink in the weekly newsletter that it was open. Did you put the sledding hills? >> Uh no. We don't normally have an opening opening date for those, but you're saying a list of them. >> Yeah. Remind people. I was singing hidden. No. Hey, by the way, there's another >> Yeah. work with uh Yep. And lastly, just want to thank everybody who came to the commission dinner um we held a couple weekends ago. Uh great time to get together just just to talk outside of park items and maybe community items, right? And um just to get to know each other better and uh um have a good meal. So, thank you. >> Okay, >> that's all you got? Any other communications? Just a reminder in addition to the date change for the next meeting that is the meeting where we elect >> chair >> chair and vice chair. Hopefully we'll get a better chair next. [laughter] >> Is there a motion to abjourn the meeting? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Is it seconded? >> I'll second. >> All in favor? I >> meeting is adjourned. Thank you. >> Thanks, Adam.