like my Right. Going to call the city council meetingfor Tuesday, April 7th for the city of Lake Amo to order. Please stand with mefor the pledge of >> allegiance.Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to therepublic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty andjustice for all. Thank you.We have an agenda in front of us. I'll entertain a motion to approve the agendaas is presented, unless somebody has something different.>> Motion to approve the agenda. >> Second.>> We have a motion and a second to approve the agenda. All those in favor, pleasesignify by saying I. >> I.>> Agenda is approved as as presented. So then we next we have approval ofminutes. Um I do have a correction on the 33 26 citycouncil meeting as it states that Charles Caden had pulled the uh meetingto order but I was not in present. So if we could get that corrected toum Jeff Holtz that would be wonderful. Other than that change I don't haveanything else. I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes from 33 and 317as amended. >> So moved.>> Second. >> All those in favor of approving the uhminutes as as indicated, please signify by saying I.>> I. >> I.>> All right. Do we have anybody this evening for public comments?>> No, we do not. >> We do not have anybody. Okay. Moving on to the consent agenda which isapprove payments and dispersements, approve Arbor Day proclamation,approve Lake Elmo Lake Association grant application 2025,approve 2026 Washington County recycling grant. Approve special event permit forthe Fourth of July parade. Denial of special event permit at 10 1205855thStreet North. Adopt resolution establishing polling locations.Authorize design services for the Elmo's pup parking lot.Improvements. Approve farm lease for city- owned 76acres. Approve fire captain job description. Approve special projectsmanager employment agreement. Approve lawnmowing contract for 2026 to 2028.Approve public works purchase of the 2026 utilitypickup. Accept improvements and approve payrequest number 19 for the water tower number three project.And that is what I have on the consent agenda. I'll entertain a motion toapprove the consent agenda. >> So moved.>> Second. >> Have a motion and a second with approvalof the consent agenda. All those in favor, please signify by saying I.>> I. >> Agenda is hereby approved. Thank you.>> First item on the regular agenda, preliminary plat and open space plannedunit development, Grovia Preserve. Miss Jensen presenting.>> Thank you, mayor. So, the applicant for tonight's application is Twin CitiesLand Development. The property owner is Landuchi Homes. The property iscomprised of three PIDs at just over 110 acres. It is currently zoned ruralresidential. The proposed zoning with this development is OPUD.It is guided in the city's comp plan as rural area development. The requestbefore you tonight is a 58 unit single family detached project with a grossdensity of 0.53 units per acre. in the land use applications before you areprelimin. So the image on the slide shows the sitecontext. The project is north of 50th Street, Tana and Fields of St. Croyneighborhoods, south of Highway 36 and Sanctuary and west of Stillwater AreaHigh School and Carriage Station. And then just a fun fact for you, the lastOPUD the city approved was in 2006. So it's been a while since we've seen thistype of development. So this slide shows the zoning andfuture land use of the property. Again, it's zoned rural residential and guidedin the comp plan as rural area development. OPUD is an anticipated usein both of these categories. So this slide has the development layoutagain as 58 units. There's one culdeac and one full street connection. Thecommunity septic is shown in orange. The Batuminous Trail is shown in yellowwhich runs north south of the development and there would be aconnection to city water. So when reviewing a prelim plat staff islooking at zoning and land use, bulk standards, tree preservation andlandscaping, grading, storm water and wetland impacts, public infrastructureand parkland dedication. And building off of that for OPPUDspecifically, there are three additional minimum requirements that are needed.Um, first is related to zoning, second is to lot size, and third is toownership. All three of those are met with this proposal. Staff also findsthat the OPUD objective is met with this project, which is essentially providinggreater development flexibility in rural areas of the city um in exchange formaintaining that rural character and open space. So staff has also reviewed applicableperformance standards and find that density is met. Lot design and setbacksare met. OPPUD specifically has a 100 foot buffer around the perimeter of theproject area which is met here. Streets are met. Preserved open space is met.The developer is proposing to preserve 55% open space on the project area wherecity code requires 50%. The septic design requirements will bemet um as they move into final plat and conduct that final testing. Um it'sexpected that the community septic will work out and get permitted accordingly.Building standards, the applicant is requesting a 60% garage facadedeviation. Um which city code requires 40% of that linear frontage to begarage. They're going up to 60%. So a deviation is requested. I'll getinto that with my next slide. landscape standards, the requirements will be met.So, they do have some revisions outlined in the landscape architect memo. Theyneed to address those. They're not requesting any PUD flexibilities though.Impervious surface standards. So, they are requesting a 40% deviation. So, upto 40% impervious surface per lot. City code requires up to 30% per lot. So,there there's a 10% um switch there. And then trail and sidewalk standards. Theyare proposing a batuminous sidewalk in front of the homes where typically it'sthat traditional six-foot concrete sidewalk. We'll get into those PUDflexibilities. Again, there are only three PUD flexibilities with thisproject. All other items and aspects of the project will be met as it moves intofinal plat. The first is related to architectural standards. So that garagefacade, the applicant is requesting this to meet the resident's expectations ofinterior storage and functionality of the home. Essentially, a 60% garagefacade would be like a three-car garage. So staff finds this request reasonable.The second item is the concrete versus batuminous sidewalk that will run infront of the homes. The applicant is requesting this for a contiguous trailsystem throughout the development and to allow for a wider section for walkersand bikers um to utilize. The applicant is also proposing the HOA would maintainthese facilities moving into the future. So staff finds that request reasonable.The last one is 30 versus 40% impervious surface on a per lot basis. Um thiswould be a blanket approval. The reason for this request is due to the uniquelot shapes and the amenities that the residents would expect in thisdevelopment across the entire development. If all the lots were to bebuilt out at that maximum of 40%, the whole project area would only be 19%.Just for reference, so staff finds that request reasonable. Also,other items to highlight for this project include landscaping and treepreservation. So again, there are revisions that need to be made based onthat LA memo. Um the landscape architect has also provided comments andconsideration for the developer to look at that northernmost property line andtheir removal that they're proposing to try to preserve some trees and maintainthat natural screening buffer. Wetlands, there are 13 wetlands on thesite. The applicant is proposing to remove two of those wetlands. They arealso proposing wetland buffer averaging to ensure those wetlands maintain on theopen space lots rather than the residential lots. And they would beinstalling wetland buffer signage. Looking at traffic access and parking.So 50th Street is a collector street, so it is designed to carry a large volumeof traffic. There would be turn lanes proposed with this development. Theywould also be proposing to do a pedestrian crossing to build out thattrail segment along 50th Street. So instead of building a trail along thenorthern full northern property line and impacting a wetland, they'd cross overand continue on that Tanner Ridge trail that's already built.Um within the development, the streets would be parking on one side and off-streetet parking requirements would be met with the garage and the driveway.The development is proposing to utilize storm water reuse and then that wouldhave a backup connection to city water which is our city standard. At the planning commission meeting,there was a bit of discussion on landscaping in general, so I added theseslides for reference. The image on the left shows the removals with those reddots, mostly focused in the north and central areas of the property. The imageon the right shows landscape additions mainly focusing on the street and trail.So, we can circle back if there's any questions on that one. This project went to the parkscommission with the prior developer in 2024.Um, Hidden Null Park is a p park that was built in the sanctuary neighborhoodadjacent to this project in the northwest corner. And there are threepossible trail connections with this project. The first is to that publiccity park, Hidden Old Park. Second is 50th Street, building out thatconnection. And the last one would be to Tamarak Farms if that neighborhood trailwere to be constructed in the future. So the parks commission recommended cash inLou with up to 25% trail credit for those three connections I just listed. So this application was sent out foragency review and conditions of approval have been added where applicable. Thefire memo addresses emergency access, signage, hydrants, addressing and streetnaming. The Valley Branch Wershed District has indicated that a permitwould be needed for this project. The landscape architect memo um indicatesrevisions and modifications that are needed before it's compliant with citystandards. And the engineering memo is generally recommending approval subjectto revisions of the plan sets. So, a public hearing notice was mailedto property owners within 500 feet since that is our new standard. On February23rd and published in the paper on February 27th, we received a writtencomment from Mark Sitsay within Carriage Station commenting and requesting treesalong the carriage station property line and then also suggesting species thatcould be installed there. Nathan Campbell with the Tamarak Farms HOA. Heprovided consolidated HOA written comments in support of the open spacedesign and added considerations for 50th Street traffic, vegetative screening,future trail connections, crosswalk, their developments, private park areaand sewer and water. He also spoke at the public hearing reiterating the HOAcomments and um traffic and safety concerns. Neil Kger spoke at the publichearing commenting on the scenic beauty of the parcel and family history in thearea and requested preservation of the Tamarak bog. And Danny Hecker spoke atthe hearing in favor of the development and requested additional landscapingaround his property line. So the planning commission reviewed thisat their March 9th meeting. The planning commission has recommended approval ofthe request with the recommended findings and conditions with thecriteria that the developer remove the flexibility for the batuminous trail andreplace it with our traditional concrete sidewalk and that the developer call outthe exact lots that need that 40% impervious surface flexibility.That vote was six to zero. unpacking that staff has reviewed theplanning commission recommendation um and impervious surface that request maycreate enforcement issues down the road as the developer is not the builder sothey may not be able to accurately identify all the lots that need thisflexibility again because they're not the builder and they don't have the homedesigns at this time. This also may create confusion and complaints down theroad that there are different standards for the same lot type as residents addimprovements in the future. So, if a resident were to be at 30% and boththeir neighbors would be at 40%, I would expect them to have some questions asthey maybe put a patio in in the future. The OPU code was amended in 2024. Partof that was updating imperous surface to be considered on a per lot basis asopposed to the entire development. The proposed development again meets thatprevious standard which was 25% for the entire project area.Um, this was changed on a perlab basis because it's difficult to review 5, 10,15 years after development's approved. If it's 25% of the whole project area,um, staff finds the planning commission's recommendation on theconcrete sidewalk to be consistent with other developments. They are providingan adequate amount of batuminous trail and a six foot wide sidewalk may alsoreduce the impervious surface. So staff is recommending five findingsof fact. The first is related to consistency with the 2040 comp plan.Second is compliance with the subdivision regulations. Third is thatit meets the zoning requirements except for where OPUD flexibility is provided.Fourth is that it meets our design standards. And fifth is that it meetsthose OP minimum requirements. and staff is recommending 14 conditionsof approval, most of which are standards such as addressing those review memos,entering into the necessary agreements, paying the fees, permits, and futurereviews. Unique for this project are conditions related to storm water reuse,community septic approvals, and the wetland buffer signage.So, there are three motions before you. I can stand for any questions, and we dohave the developer here tonight. Questions for Miss Johnson.>> So is a recommendation for the concrete sidewalks. Is that what we're lookingat? It was kind of confusing to me. >> Staff is maintaining the samerecommendation of approving all three of the flexibilities. The planningcommission requested that only the garage facade be an approved PUDflexibility. >> So we're going to have concrete walks.>> You'd have batuminous sidewalk in front of the homes.>> Batuminous sidewalk. >> Correct. That's the PUD flexibilitythey're requesting. Okay.Has has the one of the things with Batuna sidewalks is they're generallynot constructed to the same standards as the concrete sidewalks in terms of youknow usually fairly thin batuminous and and you don't get the same life as youdo out of a concrete walk. So do we have a standard they'd have to build thosebatuminous walks to so they basically have the same life and strength as aconcrete walk. So the city standard for a by two-minute walk, it's we're usingthis interchangeably with a trail standard essentially. Um it's like athree-foot or 3 foot 3 in thick mat of buminous. Um you know buminous is aflexible material so it's inherently different than concrete. Um as far aslife cycle um they can be comparable um depending on use. Um but um if you knowI think we're supportive of the recommendation of the flexibility atthis point. >> My experience with them is often timeswe tend to fail early. Um >> so umas you know things have as as technologies and and you know umconstruct construction technology has improved over the years they I think wefind that you know buminous trails can be um comparable to a lifecycle of a concrete sidewalk. That's all I can say about that.>> Okay. >> Thank you. Can you can you talk to thesubgrade underneath? I mean, the toppings always looks nice, but the cakeis really where it matters. >> Absolutely, Mr. Mayor. So, yeah, we'llas as part of, you know, the um plan reviews that are ongoing. I think that,you know, we can give consideration to making sure that it's built on solidground, so to speak. >> Yeah. Well, just sometimes rootintrusion that they're not cut properly. Sometimes you'll you'll find the rootsstart intruding into it. >> That 3-inch mat creates problems downthe road. So, just some of those considerationsuh I think need to be addressed. >> Council member Holtz.So based upon the feedback that was provided at uh the commission meeting,did any of the changes were any changes made in the developer plan based uponthat such as landscaping in either location as additional privacyuh screening or certain types of landscaping based upon that feedback?Not at this time, but I believe the landscape architect memo has indicatedthey're missing quite a few trees, so they need to add them to the plan, andit would be fitting for them to add it in the spots that the residentsrequested. >> As an example, the the feedback from uhMr. Hecker uh for screening at that the property, that would be one locationwhere landscape memo does kick in. >> Correct. And>> property on the west side of that. >> Yes. Okay.And then follow up on the on the patuminouspath. You mentioned that the HOA would then take ownership of maintenance forthat. How would that work in terms of do they send a contract to the city forperpetuity saying yes indeed. Even though this is a sidewalk for purposesof our code, we are now obligating oursel tomaintenance and repair and to long-term to snow removal because it's beingtreated as a sidewalk for purposes of our ordinance.>> The HOA would maintain the sidewalk and the trail in perpetuity. So thatincludes clearing and maintenance. Where would that be documented for then staff20 years from now when you are all retired I'm golfing somewherehopefully well but who what's going to be that documentation to show yes by theway they still are responsible >> I would anticipate anticipate it be inthe HOA declarations and then we can also add it as a condition of final platapproval >> justdevelopment agreement >> it should be in the DA yeah but>> correct but after they're out of warranty and the development agreementwas passed. >> Okay.>> People will probably refer back to the resolution. Got it, Mr. Mayor?>> Yes. >> One other place that could be documentedis I think they do have to give us a separate trail easement>> and we could put it in there. >> All right.>> That would be recorded. >> Can we put it in as many places aspossible? Because again, none of us are going to be here in a certain amount oftime. >> That changes my position. I was going togo along that there has to be some kind of maintenance agreement by them sinceit's been two minutes. And >> Yep.>> Thank you. And so it's not just m when we say the word maintenance, we'retalking when the lifespan of it is up, it's on them to redo it, not just putthe tar and paper down because there's a crack.>> Correct. >> All right.And is it in the recommendation that we are going to a 40% impervious for allthe lots or is the recommendation to do the 30 and 40? It would be to do thefull blanket 40% request. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> And to clarify this, the proposal hereis indeed for the trail connection in the northwest corner. Feedback wasprovided, you had mentioned, from the HOA to the east about that possibleconnection, but this doesn't include carrying out that connection.>> No. >> Okay.Does it include carrying out the connection to the northwest>> into the city property? >> Yeah.>> No. >> So would need a trail to bring you tothe park and then you'd most likely be on grass after that unless the city wereto add a trail within its park. >> So let's play that out. Uh there is athere is a trail within the carriage station to the park >> within sanctuary.>> Ah sanctuary, excuse me. Yeah, >> correct. >> Because it I mean you have it identifiedthat's where a trail could go, but it they're not proposing to put itin >> not beyond their their projectboundaries. Correct. >> So then a person would then get offtheir bike and at this point the southern corner of that is, you know,youth youth fields. You know, there's a couple small T-ball size fields slightlylarger >> for the city owned property on thatcorner. >> Yep. >> Oh, no. Correct. Yes. Yeah. small>> for far away. It looked like that. Okay. So, what would it take? Do we need tohave a conversation as to what that looks like for because that's notlogistically the best way to bring people across. Here's your path thatyou're biking on or rollerblading then suddenly here's some grass.>> I might be Well, that's for discussion, but yeah, I don't know.>> Does staff have thoughts on that as to because it's a separate propert. It's abut it's a city-owned property. It's not as if what we had to deal with legacywhere it's, you know, going onto another HOA's property. This is a city property.Are there solutions for that if we move forward with this proposal?>> Um, the city could use the park dedicationfunds received through the project minus the 25% forthe trail connections and they could roll that into improving Hidden N Parkif if they wanted to. If I may, um, that area is very, um, it's a prettysteep slope. So, uh, accessibility would probably be ADA would not be, uh, verywell. I mean, you have to zigzag back and forth or have a different solutionto go up that hill and that might be one of the reasons why the developer mightnot be interested in connecting that. in the in the parks commission. Have theylooked at some of the parks and maybe decommissioning them? I know that thatone's tucked back away, not visible from the street very well. Is it is thatsomething the parks commission has looked at?>> Um, not very well used. >> Yeah, when we did review for our parksmaster plan, that was one of the um discussions that did come up. Again,this development wasn't being proposed at that time. Um but definitely thatquestion was risen as far as areas that we do have parks, the use of them, umthe possible decommission of them as well.>> Yeah, it is. Okay. Yeah, it's almost a 30-foot hill. >> Any further questions? Council memberHearn, >> as far as the one uh comment from theHOA about the roadway as it enters in enters on to 50th, is there any concernabout their their remarks as far as visibility,safety concerns? Was that looked at after that comment came in? And maybe ifso, if you just >> comment on that a little bit. Yeah. So,where it ties into 50th Street was a pre set location based on feedback fromengineering. Um, and then also there's wetlands in that area. So, there's>> only so, yeah, so much room where that could go. Um, we are still designing thepedestrian facilities and so I think that is going to be a main focus ofsafety since that road does have a hill and it is pretty fast traffic that movesthere. >> Okay. Thank you.Is the speed limit on the roadway 40 miles an hour? >> Pretty sure it's 45.>> I I believe it's 40. >> Well, I guess I speed down it.>> You admitted on camera. >> Thank you. Anything else? Otherwise,I'll entertain a motion. Move to approve resolution 2026-021approving the preliminary platin PUD requested by Twin Cities landdevelopment on the subject property based on the findings of fact andrecommended conditions of approval listed in the staff report.>> Second. >> So we have a motion discussion motion.>> Yep. Sorry. Um I I mean I think you know just to start out with you know it goesback to when we kind of looked at changing up some of the the parametersfor the OPPUD. You know I'm excited to see that this um seems to have made it apossible option for developers which is exciting to see this in the first place.Um I think the requests are are reasonable. I was kind of going back andforth a little bit on the uh garage facade. Um I'm not the one selling the houses.They're the ones that have to sell it. they know the market better than I do.Um I I I guess my original thought was, you know, there's there's room toexpand. Do we need to allow this deviation? But if if that's what theyfeel is what the market wants, um then, you know, they know it better than I do.So I'm I'm fine with that. The impervious surface, you know, again,even if you answered my question because it was going to be what was that 19%calculated based off, and that's if if all of the property lots are at 40%. Andso, you know, if it's a 19% overall, we're accomplishing the the objective ofof trying to keep that to a lower percentage and below the the amount thatwe're we're aiming to hit. So, fine with those. Um, it sounds like the publichearing comments are being addressed. I would strongly like really like to seethat those trees do get put in positions to help, you know, screen some of the umareas where the the surrounding um neighborhoods had some concerns. Um someof their other concerns I I don't know if I necessarily agree with. I think thethe um but I think the the tree and some of the privacy can definitely beaddressed. Um so I I'd like to see that. And I can't even remember what the thirdone was. I'm blanking on it now. Condition of approval or the third um>> variance >> which>> with the clarification with them managing it. I'm I'm fine with that. Umespecially just kind of in the setting that it's in. So I I'm I'm on board withthis. I'm excited to see the OPUDs coming in um as an option here. Yeah, Council Member Hearn, I mean, youhit on a lot of things that I completely agree with. I I know that the uh 40%imperous surface was something that came up. I completely agree with with that aswell, especially if it's only a 19% imperous surface for the entire lot. Inworst case scenario, we'll put that in quotations. Um, and I I do have someconcerns about not concerns, but I wish it wasn't on a community septic, butthat's neither here nor there. But I I fully agree with all the uh everythingin the in the PUD though. Looks good. >> Question. Should that um what what typeof a a flow did the developer indicate for their sanitary system? >> Uh Mr. Mayor, council, I'm not exactlysure. It's it's somewhere in in design notes, but it's the system sized uh peressentially city standards. Um you know, it's a private system being built withinthe public right ofway. has to be built to the standard just in case the city'sever asked to take it over. >> So the I guess the point I'm getting tois we should make sure that whatever systems installed there if and if thatarea needs to be um bailed out as other uh septic systems have that it has theability to take it all the way from sanctuary. So I I think we want to stayfrom the low flow um system. >> Sure.>> So that it can it can handle that would be my would be my>> uh hope member Holtz>> ditto to the earlier comments but I something that we didn't mention is thefact that this does have the reuse for irrigation.>> That's great >> and that is somethingobviously there's a need for it. There's a reason we have in our city standardsto say how it is, but we have essentially required it for everythingthat's come along in the last couple years except for one instance where itliterally was not logistically possible because of the parcel. So, I Iappreciate that that is in there. That helps to reduce the per capita usage forour city, which is a priority that we do have. Um, but yeah, I'm not going to addanything to all the other comments that I fully agree with. All right, given that I'll call thequestion. All those in favor to approve resolution 2026-021,please signify by saying I. >> I.>> Resolution is approved. Move to approve ordinance 2026-3PUD ordinance approving the request for Grandva>> Grania. Envia preserve based on the findings of fact and recommendedconditions of approval list in the staff report>> support. So we have a motion in the secondbasically um approving the request based on thefindings of fact and recommendation recommended conditions of approval inthe staff report which we've discussed. If nobody has any discussion points,I'll go ahead and call the question. All those in favor of approving ordinance2026-03, please signify by saying I.>> I. >> Perfect.>> Move to approve resolution 2026-022 approving a summary of publication forordinance 2026-3. >> Second>> motion in a second. I'm going to go ahead and since a summary ofpublication, we do need four fifths vote on this. All those in favor of approvingresolution 2026-022, please signify by saying I.>> I. >> I.>> Motion passes. Thank you. Appreciate it. Well done. >> City standards for water mane. Mr.Stanley. Uh, mayor and council. Thank you verymuch. Um, public works director Bolan's going tojoin me here. We uh worked on this together. There we go.So, just to recap, um, at the February 17th city council meeting, um, duringthe discussion for the High Point crossing development, um, there was arequest made by the developer to use an alternative material for water mane. Uh,the city standard for water mane is ductal iron pipe and, uh, um, developerwas asking about potentially using PVCC900 pipe. Um PBCC900 is a pipethat's used for water mane around our area. Um but in Lake Elmo we have notused this in the past. Um and we haven't used plastic pipe in an open cutexcavation installation scenario which is what we're what we'd be talking aboutwith High Point Crossing. So um council directed staff to go back and look atpotentially changing the city standard to PBC and what that would entail. So umwe have uh done some research. We have spoken with colleaguesand um we have a presentation tonight. Uh therewas a memo that I put together recapping um our recommendation and uh thispresentation is essentially a um it just follows an outline of of that memo. Soum we got a number of things I want to talk about here. um feel free to jump inwith questions as we're presenting. Um Pete is an excellent resource when itcomes to operations and maintenance having spent his entire career in it. Solet's get started. What are the differences between ductal iron and PVC?One's metal, one's plastic. Let's No. Okay. So um so ductal iron um isactually it's an alloy. So remembering back to chemistry, what's an alloy? Analloy is several metals or materials that are part of a a metal mixture. Um,makes it more resilient against certain forces and more desirable for thepurpose it's going it's it's intended to serve. Um, so it ductal iron is um verycracking resistance. Um, it's flexible. It bends. Um, it has a high tensilestrength. And by tensile, if you're bending like this on the bottom, thatwould be the force to resist breaking. Okay. It wants to hold together.Um the outside of the pipe is it's black. It's coated with an asphalt umasphaltic material and that's to protect the metal from the effects of soil andmoisture um as well as other things. And then the inside is actually lined withcement and that's to um serve as a a um noncorrosive surface for the watersystem. Uh the life cycle of modern ductal ironpipe is anywhere between 75 and 100 years. That's that's a prettyconservative estimate. Uh polyinyl chloride, so that's PVC.It's a plastic polymer. So again, a polymer like an alloy is somethingthat's got multiple multiple components. Um it's actually uh comprised of it'spetroleum based. So, it's petroleums and salts and other additives to give it theproperties that, you know, we want it to have for plumbing purposes. Um, it has ahigh stiffness. It's it's lightweight. Um, and it's corrosion proof, so it'snon-reactive uh in the environment when it comes to uh rusting.Um, it it provides excellent hydraulic performance and like ductal iron, it canlast 75 to 100 years properly installed. So, breaking it down to some of thefactors associated with um these materials, let's start with strength andpressure. Now, I promise I got some pictures in here. It's not just, youknow, text on the screen. So, >> some of us need pictures for this stuff.>> We'll get to a couple good ones. Um, so ductal iron has an overburden strengthof 30 to 40 feet. So, that's basically how deep can the pipe be buried withouthaving concerns of the forces above it crushing the pipe. Um, it can actuallybe deeper than that. I'm just kind of I focused this on kind of like the pipeapplications that we would have in a water in a local water man. Um, it hasexcellent pressure capacity. Um, it's and this is this is kind of the key herethough is it's it's resistant in instances of poor soil soil support. So,while we have standards for pipe installation and we ensure thecontractor is doing it right, nothing's perfect, you know. there can besomething unforeseen and then you're left with uh a system that needs to beable to you know fight its own battles in some regard. Uh it's also moreresistant to freeze thaw effects. So again occasionally frost gets you knowdeep enough but what I'm talking about with free thaw is mostly soil movement.you know, this pipe is a more resilient um piece of infrastructure that is moreresistant to wanting to break or deform in the presence of moving soils.PVC has an overburden strength of not quite uh as much as ductal iron. And soin instance of deep burial, we would probably have to look for a we probablyhave to go to ductal iron if we were using PVC.the pressure capacity is lower, but I I just want to mention that we're nevergoing to be operating at those pressure capacities, you know. Um if we had 300PSI in the local water system, something's wrong. Umuh so the thing the thing to understand about PVC is that it's more reliant oninstallation. Kind of what I said about ductal iron is that it's it's a toughermaterial. you know, it can it can kind of fight its own battles better. WithPVC, you got to be a you got to be more careful. You need proper compaction. Youneed proper enc casements um if it's going to make that 75 to 100 years thatI talked about before. So, I'm going to get into somemaintenance uh issues here and and and why they're and and Pete can help withwhy these are very important, but so locating pipe. Um, as you're drivingaround the metro, you see folks out there doing this every day in, you know,the spring, summer, and fall. You know, um, it is a legal responsibility for amunicipality to be able to do this in the instance of a of a go for state onecall. So, it's a big deal for us. Ductal iron is um, electric uh, electricallyconductive. When the pipes are pushed together in the hole and they makecontact, that's one solid that's continuous for in the eyes ofelectricity. It will go right through those. Um, and the standard for locatingpipe is the electromagnetic locator. I have a picture here of a hydrant umbeing hooked up to and a gentleman out there locating pipe.So PVC is nonconductive. So you have to install the trace wire with it. So, thisis kind of an illustration of what trace wire looks like. And so, you got yourpipe in the ground, but then you've got wire that has to run with it so you canlocate it. Um, and that can be that can be that that that can work just fine.But, um, we talked about soil movement before, you know, that can damage wires,several wires, pull wires apart more likely that are spliced. Um, wires canget nicked. wires um can be damaged during back filling and it's just notquite as reliable as um a continuous piece of infrastructure that's that'spushed together and has you know strong joints and gaskets. Pete, is thereanything else you want to add there? >> No, no, that's my biggest concern is thetracer wire. Uh I reached out to bunch of my colleagues 34 differentpeople and I got feedback from some other three other municipalities in Fort34 and their biggest problem that they see is the tracer wire. What will happenover time with the ground moving anybody doing excavation if someone getsdisturbed that wire breaking. Now we lost a continuity of being able to tracethat pipe. That's been the biggest concern that they share with me.slightly different application but similar uh lesson up at where we justreplaced our force main up at the I94 force main lift station project we didlast year that pipe had been broken so many times that the trace wire had beenlost so it was very difficult for public works to go out there and locate thatpipe it was you can locate off records but that's kind of the last you knowlast resort when you're you're looking for something like a water man or aforce man another big one for us is you know welike to think Everything's perfect, but um we do spring leaks from time to time.Water mane breaks. Um so ductal iron is is really less prone to leak um upon uhinstallation than polyvinyl chloride. Um it it has more robust joints. Um andit's again I'm going to say things over and over here. It's more resistant tothat that ground movement. The thing is if it does spring a leak umwe have technology that can can locate that leak um pretty precisely and that'sby using um you know ground microphones or correlators because through ductaliron leaking water produces a a very it produces an acoustic signature which canbe picked up by this equipment. Um in plastic pipe that does not exist. So, ifyou do spring a leak, if if we've detected water loss, public, you know,public works have seen water loss and we're in a plastic system,unfortunately, you just kind of have to keep your eyes peeled for holes to startdeveloping or things to start washing out or water to come bubbling up. Youcan't go out and start looking for it. Anything to add there, Pete?>> No. >> Okay. Um, so we estimate that approximately70% of the city's water main system has been built out. Um, that it might look alittle deceptive on the picture, but keep in mind you've got the Triil Lakesarea and the park reserve that are big chunks of land. So, um, just looking atthat, you know, we've we've we've got pretty good coverage in town and that'sbeen with the city standard of ductal iron. Um, you know, it's just it's beenworking great. um staff has great performance with it, you know, and thispipe is young. This pipe is like 25. A lot of it's less than 25 years old.We're >> right. Am I to assume that the blue isductal iron and the red is >> the red is hydrants.>> Hydrants. >> Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. So that's justgeneral. I'm just trying to illustrate the amount of water man that's present.Um so you know we've got a this a significantly built out system. The citystandards been ductal iron. That's what we've been using. And um in the absenceof something um really driving a change right now, we we'd like to, you know, wejust think that should continue and be consistent, you know. So, let's talk about cost for a second.And I don't have any I mean I could I could have pulled some numbers up butyou know I reviewed several you know recent bids from 2024 2025 uh 2026 someof them and in general uh uh PVC is about 15 to 20% less expensive toinstall per foot. That's taking into account things like,you know, trace wire or wrapping, you know, water mane with umplastic to prevent, you know, protect it from um hot soils and things like that.The the one thing is, you know, if you look back, you're always going to seebits that kind of go up and down just like we do with all materials. And umyou know, fuel prices, I mean, look what's going on in the world right now.You know, everybody's seeing like a fuel escalation price, you know, in thecontracting world. material shortages, shipping interruptions, other thingsthat can happen all influence the price of of construction in ways that wesometimes can't even see coming, you know, soto change at a point when we're we're, you know, well on our way with with onematerial just to another because um it might be cheaper for a developer in theend, you know, um as opposed to to, you know, the management and operation ofthe system. We just we we we think we just want to note that we we doacknowledge it's cheaper right now, but you know, we we don't want to shortchange um our system, our residents, our staff.That's all I got to say on cost. I don't have a picture. Sorry.Corrosion resistance. We talked about um how PVC is um very it's corrosionresistance. It's plastic. Ductal iron's protected to prevent it, but it canhappen. And so, um, it's often wrapped in polyethylene. And that's actuallywhat we often do in in Lake Ammon where, especially if we're in an area where wehave, um, we may be susceptible to hot soils. I will note that, uh, in lookingback at at projects over the last decade, pardon me, we haven't noticedany sort of big pockets of hot soils around town,it's just really not an issue. Um, and we feel confident that we're not goingto have corrosion problems with the IP. >> For those that may not know, yeah, Iwill explain soils. >> Yes, Mr. Mr. Mayor, Mr. Soils engineer.Um, uh, when I use the term hot soils, that means a corrosive soil. So, it'sit's going to be like a it's going to have a pH um that can affect, you know,negatively affect um, you know, metallic material essentially, you know. And I just want to note one thing oncold weather performance. Um, and this is a rarity thankfully, but we have hadpipe freeze in Lake Elmo. Folks have been out of water service for periods oftime. And you know when that happens in Minnesota, um, typically the way to getrid of that or to to, you know, unfreeze the pipe is to put a charge on it. theelectrical current runs down the pipe and kind of it heats it and it it meltsit, you know, kind of from the inside inside out. Um, with PVC, you can't dothat. You know, if we got frozen PVC or even H, you know, we have HDP in thesystem. If we if we had frozen HTP, we'd probably be in pretty big trouble. Youknow, um, what has to happen is a hot water injection in a rec in a c tryingto circulate through the system. Um, so, um, that can be difficult and it's riskybecause frozen plastic doesn't react the same way, um, if if you're dumping hotwater in there, um, that metal does, it it it can go it can be thermally shockedand which causes the pipe to crack. Um, so it's it's this is I will admit alittle, you know, this is kind of like a a little bit of a stretch, but it'snonetheless is something that I want to bring to your attention because it hashappened and it may happen in the future. Um, the other thing aboutinjecting hot water into a system is that it does have to be you're going tohave to disinfect and flush the system, you know. So given that information, ourrecommendation is to not change the city standard and to have it remain ductaliron pipe. Umthe inplay system's been performing well.Um system uniformity and the ability to reliably and accurately locate the pipeand leaks has significant value for operations and maintenance.And while PVC again may be currently less expensive from the viewpoint ofpublic works department as the owners and operators, um the w the risksdefinitely outweigh any sort of short-term cost benefit. So >> questions member Holtz.>> So on the front end at least in 2025 PVC was cheaper. It actually the price hasgone up 60% in the last month as oil barrels have gone up.Why have cities because at the end of the day maintenance is still on the cityeven a developer puts it in. Why are there cities who are saying yeah let'sgo with the cheaper one now that doesn't perform as well in so many variableslike where's the costbenefit analysis like what where where are they weighingas being the more important priority because there are cities doing it. I'llI'll answer if you want to add. I see this in cities that have large verylarge swats of undeveloped property um that they're they're coming into andthey're using um the PVC because it's cheaper, you know, and um that's reallybeen the driver. It's it's it's I the operational value u or the I'm sorry thethe the value of of having you know a material that will you know like I saidbefore is we're able to locate maintain um you know I just don't see the benefitfor Lake Elmo going to that even though it is you know maybe 15% cheaper rightnow but you said like you said price has been on the rise but typically I've seenit in city I see it in cities that are still there's very large and not to saythat we don't have some large wide open tracks I'm about to talk about 180 acrepartial development, but when I say large, I'm talking thousands andthousands of acres. >> Ardan Hills type thing.>> Ardan Hills, your your Maple Groves, your Brooklyn Parks.>> Mhm. >> Is he wrong?>> No, he's not wrong. You know, that's that's what I've experienced or seenalso uh talking to peers. It's a cost. Yeah. They'reputting it in, but they're going to stick with one or the other. They're notgoing to bounce back and forth between the two. So, when they set theirstandards, they're just going with what they want to go with. Keep it to thatinstead of going, like I said, back to Dr. Piper PBC.So with the project that was on Inwood and that discussion of PBC,what is the harm now to the city by having an outlierthat exists? Like what additional resources or changes does public worksneed because well this one has PVC. >> So is that I I'm not familiar. So Idon't know if it's been directional or is it that?>> Nope. It's all open cut. It's all open cut. So,>> okay, >> there there I hate to have it phrasedlike there's a risk, you know what I mean? Um, like what I would say is nowwe've we've got a spot where we're going to have to do something different if weneed to come in and locate pipe or if we need to for sounding for leaks, youknow, and does that spot, you know, is does that become a spotty thing? Youknow what I mean? Do we have like an area of PVC and then like you know thecity comes in and rebuilds an area with ductal liar next door and then anotherone and then you know what I mean? We're trying to maintain like a uniformity umbecause that's part of that's part of what makes the the system you know verymaintainable for staff >> timelinewise given PVC is drasticallyjumping in price right now and I it's another story. When would thosepurchases occur on their end? Are we talking like another six, eight monthsfor phasing and say hypothetically they don't like that price because it isgoing up. Do they have the option in their DA to go to ductile iron?>> So they you know when developers bid their projects so so when we bid ourprojects as a public agency you know we get a price at the time of bid andthat's the price that has to be honored you know if it's just pipe like that youknow what I mean? Um so they could you know they could bid their project umthey have a lot they have a little more flexibility in the pro you know as a asa privately bid project have a little more flexibility to negotiate but um youget the price and it's the price you know what I mean so um they could do abid there's always bid alternates but I don't like that either in this situationbecause you know um you don't have certainty going in you know so I I don'thave anything else to add to that? >> Council member Jagusich.>> I think the other benefit of sticking with one type is the stocking of spareparts and repair parts. You know, you don't have to have a whole warehousefull because some is PVC and some is ductal iron and and some is, you know,orangeberg. You know what I mean? For those who know what that is. But umhaving staying consistent with ductal iron allows public works and to have asupply of repair parts, repair sleeves that can be used and without having todouble that. >> Absolutely. >> Well, I I asked this question in partbecause I didn't know the difference. So, heasked the question when you don't know. And I appreciate the presentationuh with the information in there and I I tend to agree that having a consistentsystem uh is in the city's best interest and umso I wouldn't uh based on the information provideduh think it's in the city's best interest for not only the staff but theresidents that that you know help to pay to maintainthe overall system to have multiple types if if we can avoid it. Uhespecially when it's open trench installation.Um so that's kind of where I'm sitting.Council member Hearn, >> I agree. Um stick with that as the thestandard. I I think more so for me I think this was just really helpful fromthe standpoint of in the future if developers are are coming asking forthis flexibility have a much clearer understanding um would be a great uhpresentation to kind of have in the back pocket for that situation in the futureI guess >> umyou know and I think in that situation too right it was a property that hadwent through a lot of requests trying to make it work we were trying to find away to make it work because it was a development that we thought fit wellwith the community and so we were trying to find that that compromise and um youknow knowing this now with this informationum I you know yeah maybe that was uh it would have been nice to know this thenbut now we know it moving forward and it does seem like that probably would bethe best course of action is to to follow this city standard um and lookfor other areas with the developer for possible deviations if needed um outsideof this as an option. And >> thank you. Appreciate it.>> Okay. Uh, next item on the agenda. I'm assumingyou're presenting this since I don't see you, Mr. Isacson.>> It's me. >> All right. So, we've got authorizeddesign services for section 16 phase 2 sanitary extension. Mr. Mayor and Council. So, yes, section16 phase 2 sanitary sewer is the new name for the 180 acres storm sewer. So,um so I'm I'm going to talk a little bitabout the background here um and then uh go through the proposed improvementsschedule. So, this is the sanitary sewer. Um I'll get to a map here in asecond. Uh that is uh be an extension of the existing tenant sanitary sewer thatis currently uh stubbed into the um called the southern partial of the 180acres that the city owns out out off of Ideal Avenue drains to the the new liftstale uh the new lift station in Oakdale. Um so Lake Elmo's beencommunity development staff's been working with the urban land institutetechnical assistance panel division development on the parcel as council'swell aware. Um, so as part of that, you know, uh, earlier this year, uh, thequestion was asked, should we move forward with this project now or shouldwe wait and try and sync it up with the, um, county's ideal avenue project, whichis currently not scheduled to begin construction until 2029. Um, and that'sjust that's not a guarantee, right? So, the decision was made to move forwardnow because we uh we're we're projecting development to happen in advance of thisproject. So, um, the biggest issue here is we need to get this this, uh, lineunderneath the, um, Union Pacific Railroad tracks that bisect the 18 acrepartial south of Gawoft team. Um, so we've scoped out the project. Um, and wewe we've we've got a proposal here. Uh, we've also continued to coordinate withWashington County. Um, but the project has stalled a little bit. We actuallypulled the county's presentation at the request off the the April work session.So So this is a little hard to see. Um butthe purple line there is is an approximate route. This is this is by nomeans spoton, but um the idea is to minimize any sort of um encroachmentinto the the developable property. You know, sort of trying to keep it towardsthe right of way, but we're not within the county's right of way. Um, so as wego north towards the tracks, you can see the pipe kind of swing over a littlebit. That's to avoid um, you know, the track controls. You've got the gate armthere. You've got, you know, the signal there. So, we need to get away from thatbecause we're anticipating that the depth of the sewer is going to probablybe in excess of or yeah, the depth of the sewer is going to be in excess of 20feet based on past experience with this line. There's very deep comm lines outthere. Sogetting authorization today um we will um get a survey out there um and getmoving on on this because the the design should come together relatively quickly.The the problem is the the railroad permitting can take a while as we as weknow. So um we're looking at um getting the final plans and specs together overthe course of this summer um and going out for bids this winter um withconstruction next summer. It's just kind of a general schedule. We'll have moredetails on that as we move forward. Um I willsorry I'm kind of jumping ahead here. I I was going to talk a little bit aboutthe um the cost here. We didn't have a cost slide in there. My apologies. Sothe the proposal is $46,000100 $46,100 to do the design, the roadpermitting, the surveying, and any bidding. Umany sort of uh we we we don't have any geotechnical in here yet. We know we'regoing to need to get some pretty deep borings for this. So staff isrecommending the city council authorize the um Bolton bank to complete the founddesign and bidding services not to exceed amount of 46,100.The amount does not include geotechnical investigations. Um we will come back tocouncil with those at a later date. That's it. Council member Holtz>> is dealing with the railroad will be amazing. Andis it a different process because it's not a crossing than what we dealt withat a village parkway because it's simply not simply it's not simple, but becauseit's not a crossing, it's not an accurate crossing. It's going under.>> Marin council, it could be a little lighter duty because there's no streetthere. Yes. But it still is it's it's not you knowjust a single form permit or anything like that.>> It's still the railroad. >> Still the railroad. Is there any because with VillageParkway because of the lack of cooperation there was aseparate process with DOT to help encourage them.>> Does that apply in this case or not because there's no crossing of people?Yeah, mayor council. There's so there's no vehicular crossing. So um thatremoves the DOT. So we're um we're going to it's it's it's more or less like Idon't want to call it a simple utility crossing because nothing simple whenyou're crossing the river rightway, but that's when I say a little lighter duty.We're not dealing with um you know a local road that we're proposing to bringacross to. >> Worst case scenario, do they have tocooperate? Um, I I think I don't know if they'relegally bound. I would maybe defer that to the city attorney, but they thesethere's a million crossings, utility crossingsthrough the railroad right away. You know what I mean? It's it's it's prettyroutine, but they still it still takes time.>> Thank you. >> U didn't see where uh the funding forthis was coming from. Can someone speak to that?>> Right. So, Mr. Mayor, I'll I'll note that this we're we're moving forward atcouncil's direction right now based on development. So, there is no CIPproject. This would be inserted into the CIP the next update.>> Okay. >> Um and we it's a I anticipate and Idon't want to speak for finance department, but it would this is anenterprise funded project with sewer extension.>> All right. >> Any other questions for Mr. Stanley?Okay. If not, then I'll entertain a motion.>> Motion to authorize preparation of plans and specs for design phase engineeringservices to be provided by Bolton and Mink in the not to exceed amount of$46,100. >> Well, we have Council Member Holtz uhwith a motion and council member Hearn with the second. Discussion. Council member Hearn. I I I I'm happythat we're being proactive with this. I think obviously we want to we want to beable to sell the land this time and I think this is going to be a step in theright direction. I think one other thing that really makes me feel good aboutthis too is I I really do think this is going to be a cost that we recoup alittle bit with the sale. Um so I I I'm not really looking this as just a losscost um or you know ask the developer to do that. I think this is going to besomething that increases the sale value um and makes it more likely that we dosell it. So, I just I think it's good that we're getting it started and Ithink we're going to recoup a lot of this.>> I agree. >> There's no more. I'll call the question.All those in favor recommending or uh having uh authorizing Bolton and M tocomplete the final design bidding service not to exceed 46,100.Please signify by saying I I >> passes. Thank you. Next on the docket is 2050 comprehensiveplan contract with Bolton and Mink. >> Well, good evening. As you all know,every 10 years we have to complete a comprehensive plan for the Met Council.And it's something that we've uh talked about at a workshop I believe in July of2025 looking at scope and um as you know we work closely with Bolton and Mink onour planning um and obviously an engineering side of it. So we we'reworking with them on a scope and through this process uh we received a scope fromthem um December 31st and then per policy we sent it out to four otherfirms just to um you know see what other proposals we could get make sure priceseems in line and uh of those four we totally we received two proposals alsothe other one was from HKGI who had partnered with Bolton M on theengineering and um Bank's prices, you know, came in lower and we're here todayto make a recommendation so we can move forward on the 2050 comprehensive plan.Jenny Faulner is here to give the comprehensive plan update. So, she cango through that and then there's other questions I can answer them later. >> Good evening, mayor, members of thecouncil. Nice to see you again. Um Nathan uh couldn't be here tonight so Iam filling in for him but h I know happy to be here um as well. So I willgo through I just have a few quick slides um just to talk about Bolton makea little bit who we are in case you don't know um we have been your engineerfor a while and your planner for I've been here personally this is my fourthyear helping out the city of Lake Elmo happy to do it a wonderful community umso we have local knowledge we have in-house service we are your one-stopshop we've got surveyors water people water resource people transportationpeople so we don't have subconultants on this proposal um and we use the wordspracticeoriented leaders So, not only will we help you write your plan, wehelp implement it. We are helping your staff um as they get projects in. Andso, it's it's not just this is what it's all about. We are kind of boots on theground and understand the implications of what the decisions that go into thecomp plan will have as it's implemented by staff.Uh local knowledge of course um I kind of covered this already. Um certainly wework closely with your community development department and we updatedthe parks master plan in 2024. Uh we acquired merged with Focus Engineering acouple years ago. Um, and that team is still with us. They have long-standinghistory in this community and we have all their files so with Jack and Chad.Um, and so that's awesome. And then, uh, we have, like I said, a deep bench thatcan deal with all the, um, natural resources and environmental issues. AndI'll get into that in a second. As far as planning, uh, last go around uh, 20at the 2040 cycle, Bolton and M helped advance over 30 plans in the metro area.There are approximately 180 local jurisdictions in the metro area thathave to do a comp plan. That's a lot. Um, and so there's a there's a lot ofregulation going on. These are all going to come together. They're all dueDecember 31st, 2028. Our team uh is located in Oakdale justdown just down the road. And uh like I said, we implement these comp plans forLake Elmo and our other client planning communities every day.We will be putting together an engagement plan that is going to bestrategic um and specific as far as what we're going to do at the onset. Um we dowe have a lot of things from videos, books, we have online web surveys,mailers in uh certainly in-person engagement. Uh we will talk about that.So we will be putting together a strategic engagement plan uh with yourstaff before we get kind of get started. Certainly spring summer is a good timeto get that going when all the events are happening.Where do we start your plan? We will start with your strategic plan that wasadopted last year. You have uh a couple comments in there, goals related todevelopment and I will get to that slide. Specifically, strategy number twothat talks about maintaining the historical charm and character, talkingabout our infrastructure, community values and whatnot. So, this will be thebasis and part of the vision and goals that will go into um the beginning partand the vision for the 2050 comp plan. Here's what your current comp plan lookslike. If you haven't seen it, there's a link there. It's on your website. Looksfamiliar to some of you. Um, as you know, the Met Council tells you what youhave to do. Nobody likes that, but we try to uh you get to kind of decide howthat's done, how you're going to meet those requirements for better, forworse. So, we will work with you with your staff to try to navigate thesethings that gets to the best outcome for the city and following your visions andgoals. So, what's new this go around? seems like the rules change every 10years. And so, just to give you a quick highlight, um, of course for Lake Elmo,you're very much familiar with the water appropriation issue that's affectingyour comp plan, your 2050 comp plan, and the growth um, that you can or cannothave in the eyes of the Met Council. There's new requirements for climate andresiliency uh, that the Met Council is requiring in 20150, and this is comingfrom state statute. They've increased the minimum density amounts for suburbanand suburban edge communities. Um they have also um you know there'saffordable housing requirements that are in the comp plan. They tell you whatshare of the region's number of affordable units you have to provideopportunity for. You don't have to build these. You don't have to pay for them,but you just have have to provide zoning areas where these could go. And ittypically is the higher density area. So you basically have to have enough landguided and zoned at a higher density that would allow could allow that manyunits to be built, but you don't have to build them. There's not a requirementfor it. So what cities used to do in their comp plan was we'll build thismany affordable units in this planning period and they would backend all of theaffordable units to be in Musa staging areas that were 10 20 years out. The MetCouncil doesn't like that because they would tell you we're not building enoughaffordable units today. So, they're going to start doing a look back periodevery 10 years. So, they will be looking at how many affordable units oropportunities for that are being built every 10 years instead of every 20 30year cycle. So, that will just have some impacts.Um, they do have an option to use some or to include some social equitycomponents, not required, but certainly it's an option. and they're giving grantdollars to communities that do include that. We did not propose that in ourproposal, just to let you know that, but just want to let you know that's outthere. Okay. So, um, as far as the land usegoes, where do we start? We start with your current comp plan. And really, itall starts with land use is how which kind of shapes all the otherinfrastructure plans and natural resource plans in your comp plan. So,this is the time as we get started, we will be having discussions about theMUSA, what goes where, because that's going to set the stage for the rest ofyour plans. Um, and look at the future growth numbers. I think there's someongoing discussions right now about future population projections. So, oncewe get those set and then we talk about where the what the number is, then whereit can go and where those MUSA changes should be. So, that will be kind of onthe front end of the discussion along with engagement.Um, as I said, we will use your current goals and vision. There may be someminor updates to what we have looking at um, the strategic plan that was recentlyadopted. Our proposal has a steering committee approximately eight eightmeetings built into that for check-ins and certainly there'll be opportunitiesto check in with you all as much or as little as you want. So, we definitelycan keep you engaged along the way. And then our goal is to have um, some heavyengagement done and the plan completely drafted by the end of this year. There'sa mandatory six-month review period. So once it's drafted, all the Met Council,the DNR, all the agencies, your adjacent neighbors, school districts, they havesix months to review and comment. So then we just kind of sit and wait. Andthen one day you're going to get letters in the mail and they'll could be long.Let's hope not. Let's hope we do a good job. And it's smaller than it was lastgoound. And then they'll tell you the things that you missed or the thingsthat they don't agree with. And then we got to kind of go back and update a fewthings because the plans have to be consistent with the Met Council plans.Your plans have to be consistent with the county's plans and the state'splans. So it all kind of rolls uphill or downhill depending on which way we'regoing. And it they all have to be in alignment. Um so we this is about an18month process. 18 to 24 months then kind of depending on uh how how quicklywe get things done, the extent of those comments. uh the the drop dead date isDecember 31st, 2028. We'll definitely be well within thatwindow. Our goal is to be done um sometime in 2027.We provided a detailed schedule in our proposal to Jason. But and then I willstand for any questions if you have them.And thank you >> council member Holtz.>> Thank you for that. Number one and welcome back.>> Oh yes. Thank you. when it comes to Bolton Bank and and resources becausethis is an activity that is you know two two and a half years every 10 and forthe last several years comp plans are not being worked on. How is it exceptfor amendments and >> yes>> how how does it work internally in terms of well now a massiveshift in labor is occurring are there then duties that not dutiesare there things that Bolton Mech is then not doing for the next two yearsbecause of the labor constraints that are going towards this comp plan and Iguess the reason I ask is how much for if Bolton Bank is awarded thishow much does it impact the work that Bolton Oldm does because of that shift.Is there a risk because are you hiring temps to help out or is it just internalshifts? >> Well, it's I would say uh council memberHoltz, it's a little bit of both. Um we have hired some more staff, some moreplanning staff. We are growing company and so it seems like we're always hiringon the engineering side, on the planning side. Um so that's part of it. I willalso say as we've been your planning partner for years, you are a priorityclient. You have planning and engineering. um that takes precedentover somebody that we don't have a relationship with. So, um I think I Iwould say with confidence you're going to get Nathan and I and Nate and Jackand Chad and our team that's very much familiar with the community working withyou on this as as a priority for certain.>> Jack might be golfing Arizona, but >> we still tap him for for intel every nowand again. So, I hope that answered your answered your question. Yes.Jagusich >> in the information there's reference toa technical advisory committee. What's that committee made up of?>> We would work with your staff to identify who that would be. Um it couldbe uh by statute the planning commission is charged with creating thecomprehensive plan, you know, in concert with your staff and consultants. Um itcould be a committee of two parks commission members, two planningcommission members, two council members, community members. We have yet to getinto what that looks like. We just know that we don't want it done in a vacuumwith staff totally leading the process. We know that it should be a little bitbroader than that. >> Just look looking through it kind ofperson I got was kind of the city council was off to the side of thiseffort. It didn't seem like we had much of a role based on the project approach.>> I think that can be established here at the onset if how much you want to beinvolved in the steering committee. Absolutely. Hasn't been decided yet. Andif you I mean now would be a good time or at a future date with discussion withNicole you know if you want how much do you want to be involved uh we haven'tstarted anything yet so we can certainly make some>> still open for discussion. >> Absolutely. Yeah we'll be working withstaff as as that gets settled. >> Thank you.>> Yeah. >> What's that question?>> Go for it. So, it was also mentioned that grants do exist from the MetCouncil when we're discussing the cost um that we're eligible for 40 50,000 tohelp with the cost. How do we make sure we get that grant?>> Uh it's my understanding that the Met Council, you're a designated community,so you're going to get 50,000 or excuse me, 40,000. Um that's already beendetermined. It's my understanding. >> So, you'll get part of it upfront. Ithink once you enter into a contract and the Met Council, they still don't haveall their work done, council member Holtz. So, uh, once they get theirwebsite and stuff updated, then you'll be able to apply for those funds rightaway. Probably show them our contract and proposal. They'll give you half upfront is my understanding, and then the other half once you submit.>> Why are we eligible? Is it because our size?>> I can't tell you. I don't know. It's uh I think it's a determination of size andI thought it was income. I mean, not all communities are getting these funds.>> The quality of the city council. >> I That was going to be my first guess,but then I realized that would not be a reason. So,>> yeah. >> Look at us. Come on. All right. Thankyou for that. >> Yeah.Any other questions? All right. There are any otherquestions? I'll entertain a motion. Motion to accept the proposal and sign acontract with Bolton and Mink for the 2050 comprehensive plan.>> Second. >> We have a motion by Council Member Hearnand a second by Council Member Holtz. Discussion.>> I just it's a I think this makes sense. Continue to work with Bolton Mink here.Um done a lot of work with them. Obviously, they understand our city. Idon't love the fact that we have to pay this much for a comp plan period. Um butum if it is something that we have to do, I guess this does make sense to moveforward with uh partner that we've we've done a lot of work with.>> Yeah, I agree. It makes sense to keep the continuity with Bolton and M. So II'll approve this as well. The one suggestion that that I'll haveand I couldn't bring it up during the questions because it's not really aquestion is that the uh there were there there were several comments made duringthe last comp plan that the community wasn't involved as much as it could havebeen or should have been. So, I'd really encourage us to make sure that um thatthe community is is wrapped into this process and that uh we listen to themand and make sure that they uh they're heard and and that we fold that into thecomp plan as much as we're able to given some of the uh restrictions that we haveplaced on us. So, >> I would say ditto and I I appreciatethat. Um, between the bid and then the grant money, this is going to come inless than what we budgeted for. So, I I think that is good as well. I fullyagree with Council Member Hearn. I cringe the thought that we have a costhere that's required. It's an unfunded mandate with a grant to help with someof the unfunded mandate. Like, I still ticks me off, but thank you for theproposal and I I plan to support it as well.All right, I'll call the question. All those in favor of hiring Bolton M totake us through the is that the 2050 comp plan, pleasesignify by saying I. >> I.>> I. >> And that's approved.>> Thank you all very much. >> Thank you.>> Next on the agenda is the annual report. All right. Thank you, Mayor and Council.It is my privilege to introduce the city's annual report for this past year.This report provides a comprehensive overview of our operations and ourprogress made toward um the goals and priorities established by the citycouncil. Over the past year, staff have remainedfocused on implementing the city's adopted priorities while continuing todeliver the essential day-to-day services that keep the organizationrunning effectively. This balanced approach ensures that weare both advancing the strategic initiatives and maintaining our highquality of services for our communities. A couple um want to outline the reportthat you do have in the packet. Um the report does highlight our keyaccomplishments and our future priorities across the departments. Itoutlines how the staff efforts align with our city council's core strategieswhich is demonstrating a consistent commitment to the direction you havealready set for us. Also um included in the report is our by the numbers pages.This uh data is data that we identified to help tell our story. The data weincluded helps us make informed decisions, track performance, identifytrends and issues, and increase our transparency. We've also made somechanges to our quarterly dashboards, and those um changes will be reflected nextmonth. Um for our first quarter dashboards,this document we also look to as serving a tool to inform our future decisionmaking. again identifying trends, emerging needs and opportunities thatwill help guide our policy decisions and resource allocation in the coming year.We also think that this is a great tool to use to help um educate the communityby providing clear and transparent information about our city servicesprojects and our priorities. Um we wouldn't have been able to pulloff this report without the work of our department directors and staff alongwith our communications coordinator Kathy as well. Um so tonight we're goingto provide a high level summary um of the report but you do have the fullreport in the packet and then staff's going to be available to answer anyquestions um and we we welcome your feedback as we go along too. Soour first slide, you guys have been really busy this last year. Um we, youknow, have had our regular meetings. Our special meetings will include any closesessions or um special meetings to do um commissioner interviews and those thingsas well. We started out the year with thecreation of the strategic plan which um we really looked to as what created ourour framework for our decision making. It creates uh a roadmap for the cityidentifying those key priorities. Also part of the strategic plan waspairing down our eight core values to three which are presented on the slide.the excellence, integrity and service. And these values reflect how the cityconducts our work. We also worked on creating our corestrategies. Um, and these strategies represent theprimary areas of focus for the organization and are used by staff toprioritize our work, evaluate projects, and then guide our recommendations thatwe bring back to the council. Together, the strategic plan, corestrategies, and core values create a strong foundation for consistent,transparent, and accountable governance. The council has also remain responsiveto emerging needs and community input, which is demonstrating a willingness toadapt while not losing sight of our original goals.Um and we've made um good strides at um our work as reflected in all of our keystrategy areas. Throughout the year, the counciladvanced a number of policy decisions which we have listed on the slide thatalign with the framework. These decisions have supported the council'score strategies of building a vibrant including a vibrant inclusive connectedcommunity. Build and sustain resilient infrastructure. Manage the growth.Balance finances for now and the future. Maintain responsive, transparent, andadaptive governance. Deliver efficient, reliable, and innovative services. Andthese decisions help guide our staff's work that you will see representedthroughout the rest of the annual report. So, we will have um eachdepartment head come up and present their slides, but please feel free to umask any questions as we go too. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. AsNicole uh volunteered to do the city council portion, I told her I'd help herout with the administration side. So I'll jump right in with our missionas from the administration department to deliver excellence in municipaloperations through integrity, transparency and accountability,ensuring seamless support for elected officials, empowering staff andproviding responsive highquality service to the community. Our core services inthe administration department is coordinate city council um operations,organize implementation of policy, oversee operations of all departments,manage essential civic functions including elections and city licensing,serve as central communications hub, and support city employees. Uh first the one of the uh first thingsthat council and staff did was the adoption of the 2025 2026strategic plan. Fortunately, I didn't get to participate in that as I joinedyou halfway through the year, but I have read it, refer to it um in all that wedo where you adopted the core strategies, you set goals and gavedirection um to what we do and with the goal of long-term vision in mind.The fourth course strategy with the adoption of the strategic plan.We also focused on internal and external communications uh launching the newwebsite and creating an internal newsletter as well.Core strategy number five again focused on the open and transparentcommunication internal and externally. By that we hired a communicationscoordinator, created an intranet site for employees where we where we havedocuments and and more information on benefits andin general more information for our employees. We started a labor managementcommittee for working uh with our union staff and management to opencommunications there and started an employment engagement committee wherewe've had a strong positive feedback um from staff on the impact that that hasmade. launched an annual survey.And then another core strategy that we looked at, build a vibrant, inclusive,and connected community. Staff supported city council 100th anniversary, createdthe annual water brochure. So those are just some of the accomplishments in 2025where we're looking at for 2026. Again, outside of the day-to-day stuff, andthis list obviously is not all-incclusive. Um, but again, lookingat our data, uh, where we have our files, knowing what we have,digitalizing what we have, looking at the retention schedule, making surethat, uh, we're we're compliant to that. growing community. We will be evaluatingpolling locations, adding possibly adding two additionalum polling locations. We are conducting a second all employeeworkplace survey which will actually close tomorrow. We currently have as ofthis morning about 60% of our staff that has responded to that where theemployment engagement committee will look back and uh review that that inputfrom staff. We are up for uh union negotiations in2026. Um we'll tonight you approved the firecaptain job description. So, we'll begin the recruitment of those threeadditional captain positions for fire and we'll continue to support publicworks with the implementation from the operational assessment.To touch on core strategy number four, one of the big projects will becompliance with the accessibility that we will uh be requiredum to comply with by April of 2027. training on all the pieces to the to thewebsite documents that are on the website.We will create an annual report which you have in front of you todayand launching of a national survey uh for residents to get their input.Another core strategy is build a vibrant inclusive connected community.We will be implementing a community art program for city hall to have thisbeautiful space that is intended to showcase art. So filling that space. Sothose are just some of the projects for 2026 in the administration department.Any questions? >> Not seeing any.>> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Next up iscommunity development. So the mission of community development is uh we'recommitted to uh guiding thoughtful growth, preserving our community's ruralcharacter and natural resources, and fostering vibrant neighborhoods andbusinesses. We strive to enhance quality of life, promote economic vitality, andensure sustainable development for current and future generations. And ouruh core services are planning and zoning, um planning, land use, permits,inspections, code enforcement, economic development, and redevelopment of sites,and community engagement. And as you can see, we have a couple new members of ourstaff, and we are um basically we are fully staffed at this point in thedepartment. So we we're able to add people and grow since I've been here forthe past over two years. So this is a good spot that we're in um movingforward. So for managing growth the 2025highlights uh managing growth we completed the technical assistance panelfor the 3M site 180 acres with the urban land institute. Uh maintaining umresponsive transparent adaptive governance we implemented cloud permit.It's our permitting system to streamline the process, improve the process. We cando inspections in the field with, you know, iPads, tough books. Um, so thatwas a good implementation that we were able to do early on and it's been fullyimplemented in 2025. Um, deliver efficient, reliable, in innovativepublic services. So, we established the tree fund. We launched the Boulevardtree program. So, we're about to kick that boulevard program off um plantingin May. uh we were awarded $17,500 from the the ULI grant study from Uthis was from uh the county. So just to kind of highlight that is that we'relooking for grants in the department too. Um we were awarded 82,000 forenvironmental testing at the um at the fire station through um a county grant.Also worked with Bolton M to update we now have a city property viewer. So, notonly do you have the county viewer, this adds um shoreline overlays, land use,zoning, all these other um all the other information for us and developers.We also coordinated removal of a hundred uh over 100 um diseased ash trees withpublic works and this is specifically working with um Simmeron and we arecontinuing to do that and acknowledge which trees need to come down. So, uh,that's going to be an ongoing process, se several more years. Um, also buildinga vibrant, inclusive, and connected community. We issued the RFP awarded theold fire station, public works building. We're still working on that movingforward. We updated the old village zoning and future land use base on our2024 study. And then for the 2026 priorities, looking at managed growth,continue to work on and complete the following development projects. Justwant to bring this up because people ask, you know, Oakland Middle Schooledition is ongoing. Um that is going to hopefully be completed by this year. Theelementary school is going to open this year. Uh Prairie's Guide Twin Homesshould start construction. Starbucks is going to open in a couple weeks. Roarsis ongoing. Bridgewater Bank opened. At home apartments should be wrapping uphere in the next um month or so. Primrose School on the Bridgewater siteis under construction. Um, and wood town houses I believe started today on theirinfrastructure. Um, Northstar second and third. Hopefully those additions will becompleted too. And obviously the comprehensive plan is a big one to startand get most of it done this year. >> I saw a sign next to Hagbridge. Is thatis that coming soon too? >> The sign.>> I don't know. It says ready to lease in the farm field.>> That is an at home apartments. >> So they own that parcel. So that we arethey have not submitted a concept yet for that site but>> but yet they're ready to lease. >> They're ready. Yeah.>> Okay. I was just curious. >> They're in the proper sewer phase. Sothat that's good. >> Uh building vibrant inclusive connectedcommunity. Uh continue planning and marketing the 180 acre site. We'reworking on that as you all know. Uh redevelop the old fire station. We havea close session on the 21st. So hopefully we can get that movingforward. And then also the central park. We're going to have an RFP uh for aconsultant submitted here pretty soon to the council. Council can review the RFPand then we want to issue that for a consultant to work on that aspect of notjust sports complex, the the features of the complex, but everything that peoplewant at that site. We going to consider the cost and long-term maintenance. Hello.Um, I'll draw your attention to these lovely individuals in our photo. Thefinance department um, handles money in, which is largely Ryan on the far left,money out, which is Mike, who does our AP and payroll. Nina and I do um most ofthe uh lifting of the long-term or all planning. So, budgets and levies,capital improvement plans, um compliance, reporting such as the annualcomprehensive financial plan, um and then just management of all of ourfinancial systems. Keep this relatively brief because I'mguessing most of you aren't are nearly as excited about accounting as I am.Um, so in addition to our day-to-day work, um, which is kind of the the, uh,little bit more boring stuff, um, we've had a couple of really exciting projectsfor the last couple years. Um, they're very large, uh, projects for ourdepartment, um, of four to take on. Um, the first being our financial softwareimplementation. Um, again, I think I've mentioned it a dozen times. I appreciatethe investment in this um, uh, new tool. So there's a lot that went into thislast year as far as planning the database, getting the information out ofour existing system and getting it cleanly and accurately into the newsystem. So lots and lots of planning there. We reworked our chart of accountsa little bit. Um standardized, made it shorter, hopefully easier to use. Um wedid some integration with our um new AMI system um with the meter uh reading. Umand then we've been um for as long as Nah's been here um we've been buildingout our fixed asset database um and which will give us a better handle onwhat we have and what we need financially to um replace in the future.Another big project that we've been working on um is our strategic financialplanning. So, we're kind of reworking some systems that were already in place.Um this actually has multiple um touch points uh with it or other processesthat we already had in place um including our utility study, our 10-yearCIP, um our uh some early um spreadsheets that I had for strategicfinancial planning. Um, we've been also building out our five-year investmentladder, which will again just kind of help us map out that that out. Um, andthen we've been working with community development to um, finalize some or notfinalize, but work on some development projections.Um, so that was 25. 26 is going to look a lot like that, just slightlydifferent. So, we've largely implemented the software. However, um, there are acouple pieces that remain um, to be implemented. where we've got a specialassessment module that will be coming later this fall. Umwe have numerous numerous processes um that we've been improving and just sortof relearning. Um it's it's sort of like walking. You know, you you you we've hadto essentially kind of relearn every single process that we do. Um and as wewere learning, we were also tweaking those processes and um designing newones just to make things more efficient. >> Can you go back a slide?>> Sure. >> Just uh speak to the artificialintelligence supported invoicing. So, um, BSNA is our new software and theyare really good about telling us what they're doing, what's coming next. Andone of their, um, uh, implementations this year will be, um, AI invoicing. So,we will be able to scan an invoice and the system will essentially sort oflearn to read that invoice and pull that information from the invoice into thesystem. we obviously need to still do our uh you know checking it and thenalso making sure that we code it appropriately um and yeah so just kindof one more um added efficiency as we move forward.>> Okay, thank you. Well, good evening everyone. Um, likeClarissa mentioned, when you look at the the staff that put in the work, um, it'sit's great for me to see how big of a picture we need to have for our staff,um, because of the solid numbers that we have. Um, the folks you see in thepicture are truly the ones that, uh, do all the work for this department and aredriving what we're doing day in and day out.Um, you know, we want to be a departmentthat uh um proudly serves our growing community with the goal of being therewhen they need us most, equipped with the right skills to make a difference.Um, we cover a lot of different values and core services that we cover. Um,ultimately we just want to be there for the community when they need us and bewell trained and ready for whatever they need. As you take a look at our uh 2025highlights, um we had seven firefighters that completed their probationaryacademy and we hired five more last year. That's a big number of people andwe're retaining those people. That's the most important thing that I think thatstands out with our current staff. Um our retention is great and we have sucha great number of people that are really putting in a lot of work. Um, when Ilook at the staff hours, um, we had 8,300 almost 8,400 hours of stafftraining in 2025. Um, that's beyond important for the quality that we getout of our firefighters, but it just shows the level of dedication thatthey've got to uh they've got to obtain to to stick around and do what we'redoing. Um,hiring our public works and fire administrative assistant, Angie has beena huge benefit to our department. Um, both of our departments really allows usto um get ahead on a lot of projects. Um, she's been a huge helpwhen we look at uh being a vibrant, inclusive, and connected community. umtry to figure out ways of how the fire department can um be out and open forthe community. Hosting that annual open house continues to grow. We want tocontinue to uh have live demonstrations where we can teach and educate ourresidents um when they come see what we're doing. It's more than just thetrucks. Um it's more than just taking some photos and and grabbing a snack.Um, we're trying to make an impact when they do come visit us and and hopefullythey can see what we're doing without having to see what we're doing on a onan emergency call. Um, last year we also celebrated the theretirement of Brian Johnson with 32 years of service. I don't know if we'regoing to see 32 years of service out of staff um in our in our model or if thefire industry sees that anymore, but that's a that's a huge benchmark. And hedefinitely last had a lasting impact on what we're doing. Um our new staff seenumbers like that and and try to look at this as a long-term thing that they cando rather than just something they try. And hopefully when they're here, theythey see value in what we're doing and they want to continue to be a part ofwhat we're doing here. um through manage growth um efficient,reliable, innovative services. Um this year for our 2026 priorities, we'regoing to hire three shift captains. That's going to definitely bolster whatwe're able to do um with our shift crews. It provides another solid uhlevel of supervision to our staff and again allows us to manage that growth ofwhat we're doing as a fire department um to stay on top of things.when we look at um our innovative services and a vibrant, inclusive,connected community, um really continue to build our community risk reductionprograms. Um just this past week, we kicked off our sound the alarm uh homeinspection program and getting the chance to interact with people outsideof an emergency call make a difference for people. Um getting updated devicesin their homes where they're 10, 15, 20 years old or they just have a lack ofthese detectors. um or just bad batteries. Um it really helps us try tostay ahead of of what's coming our way. >> Not directed at me.>> Definitely not. >> Um we we see a huge need and a huge uhask of our CPR training that we can provide to residents, we can provide toour businesses at no charge or if they need cards for a small fee. So justhaving our staff interact that way and provide another service outside of justemergency response is really important. Um and then soon um under innovatedservices taking delivery of some new vehicle um and apparatus. Um within thenext few weeks we'll take delivery of our new utility terrain vehicle. Um asthat replacement comes online we'll take the time to properly train our staff onthat and get that in serviced. And then later this year, the Tender 2replacement will be taking delivery of that. So, um, having the fleet we haveand having the, uh, the equipment that we have is is extremely important. Weappreciate the support in those, uh, in those efforts as well.And again, I, you know, I've cut down from 60 slides, so we've got a lot ofground to cover, but in in the report, there's a lot of things there. So,>> one thing that really uh struck me, you said one time was the response toincident that had decreased when we went from the old fire station to the new oneand having the staff on hand to do that. Could you could you remind us what thattime is to incident now? >> We're under two minutes now from thetime the the tones drop to when we can get out the door. Um, obviously duringthe day we're we're under a minute. Um, when you start looking at when we're um,overnights it's a little different. It takes staff a little longer to get up.Um, but we we've gone down from six six and a half minutes to get a vehicle outthe door to respond. We're we're down and consistently staying under under twominutes and a half. Where you where we still see numbers kind of drive that toa minute and a half to two minutes is >> the number of overlapping calls thatwe're getting now. So there uh in 2025 there was 116 times where we had anothercall come in when we were already on another one. So sometimes there is adelay for us to wrap up what we're doing and move on to the next or because if wecan't leave the one we're on, we've got to call back um our other staff or do adifferent sort of deployment where we we are a little delayed or we get resourcesgoing to that second call. But that's definitely something as uh we continueto monitor as we move forward as our call volume increases. Again, in 2025,we saw a nearly 13% increase in our call volume. Um that's going to continue.That 13% is a pretty consistent number that I've seen in my time here um forthe past few years. And I don't think that's going down. And that's that'salso area widest too. Um, I just talked to Still Water's new chief and we're allseeing very similar numbers right now from 25 and and what we're seeing in 26.>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Good evening, council members and mayor.All right. So public works uh the mission statement of public worksdepartment is to provide the community with a sustainable public infrastructurethat enhances quality life supports community well-being ensures a safeclean and efficient environment to all users.Core services, street and transportation,snow removal, ice control, street sweeping, repairs, and signage.Water services, safe drinking water, system maintenance,testing, wastewater services,water collection, lift station, system upkeep, like the typical out of sight,out of mind. Got to keep that stuff up. storm water management, drainagesystems, ponds, and flood prevention, parks and public workspaces,uh, I should say parks and public spaces, parks, trails, landscaping,facility maintenance, fleet and equipment, vehicle andequipment maintenance, utility operation support, monitoringservices, connections, system conditions, coordinations,Emergency response, storm response and infrastructure repairs, public works 2025 highlights. I like tothank Adam for this because I was not here in 2025. So Adam had a lot of inputon this. Thank you, sir. Um, vibrant, inclusive, connected community,supported community events, uh, night out, 100redyear celebration, light upLake Elmo, replaceground equipment at Clyice Park,installed amenities at Schilkins Park, signs, benches, and trails.Partnered in Lake Elmo Avenue Gardens project. Updated park reservationpolicies. Efficient, reliable, innovativeservices. Heart of Public Works administrative assistant. Like Dustinsaid, great asset. Great to have somebody on hand that can rely on allpowerful stuff. Complete storm water inspections andrepairs. Exercised 301 water gate valves throughout the city.Completed startup and put in service a new well, water to well two watertreatment plant. completed, excuse me, partnered with uhBay West on PAS destruction research. Managed growth completed concept planfor Ridge Park. Expanded and reconstructed parking lots, Pebble,Sunfish, and Ree Parks. Resistant infrastructure.Remove EVA infested trees and parks and outlaws.removed invasive species at Sunfish Park for our 2026priorities for the vibrant inclusive connected community. Develop Lions Parkmaster plan. Install new park viaresurface basketball courts carriage stationTablin Park. Place playground equipment Tablin RidgeParks. And we have the phase two lake Elmogardens three additions which will take placethe efficient reliable innovation services improve department efficienciesand services delivered implement work order systems the beehive system maintain equipment for longevity andperformance continue storm water inspections andrepairs additional 25% keep up with their MS4 permittedResponsive, transparent, adaptive governance. Hirepublic works director or maintenance operator. I'm here standing in front ofyou guys. Uh ensure staffing meets growth andservices and demands. Maintain staff training. That's a bigthing in public works is keeping staff up on train. We're young staff. We haveyoung staff members, crew in public works. Training is key for them to learnto find out how everything works. Resistance infrastructure implement twoto threeyear gate valve maintenance program. Question.No. >> Thank you.>> Thank you. All righty. Thank you.Well, it's just Chad and I in the picture, but there's a lot more to itthan that. Um, so the mission of the engineeringdepartment, the engineering department is dedicated to the planning, designing,and delivering of safe, reliable, and sustainable public infrastructure. Weserve the community by implementing advancing the city's vision throughresponsible stewardship of public resources and are committed tostrengthening the economic vitality and quality of life in Lake Elmo. Kind of acommon theme across the board, which is just awesome, right?Some of our core services involve transportation planning, assetmanagement, surveying, GIS operations, grant writing and fundingadministration, um construction oversight and contractadministration, uh a lot of infrastructure planning and design, umcapital improvement plan updates, development review, that's anotherreally big one, and also construction oversight of those um improvements thatwill become public infrastructure. water, waste, swear and storm watersystem management and um environmental compliance and permitting um thinkingMS4, PAS, things like that. Sowe did a lot of lot of work last year. Um we'll talk about some of that heretoday. And so under infrastructure and utilities, we we got the well 2 PAStreatment plant secured and the MPCA3M operating maintenance grant in place. Weupgraded the I94 lift station and force main to increase sewer capacity andrehab a failing force main system. Extended sewer and water into the newLake Elmo Elementary site as well as to Oakland Middle School.And then we secured the MTCA3M grant for new well and future water treatmentplants. It's a big one. Uh under transportation and capitalimprovements, we delivered the 2025 CIP projects. Just to recap some of those atthe Village Parkway uh railroad crossing, um the local streetimprovement projects that were last year, you remember they were kind ofscattered around town. um water tower one number one demolitionand then the re park parking lot were some of the highlights. Uh we completeda citywide um street condition assessment update and also updated thepavement management plan. You may recall that was our our icon is the system weuse and that was there was a refresh of that system last year. We do it on a a40-year cycle. Uh we implemented the maintenance projects uh with publicworks seal coating and crack sealing, excuse me. And um a lot of coordinationand uh and um back and forth with some large projects in town, namely thehighway 36 Cass 17 interchange. Um but also um there's been some projects onCounty Road 13 as well as Manning Avenue 15. Uh, another really big one undertechnology and planning was we were able to implementa city-wide GIS system, the public both public facing uh, maps for land use. Um,but we also have internal resources um, and utilities for our use. Um, we'regoing to continue building those systems into the future.>> What's that a picture of? >> That is a picture of a drainage way. UmI I can't remember exactly where, but last year um some some of the some ofthe neighborhoods, you know, they're kind of tucked into the woods andthey'll you know, backyards will drain to a ditch. Over time that ditch getsovergrown with what buckthorn volunteer trees, debris gets in there. So part ofthis part of the project is to clean those drainage ways up. So that's whatthat is. got the um the erosion control mat over the top of it to keep theground stable and allow seed to come up. So, looking into 2026,um been before you so far this winter and spring with a number of things, butum again, looking uh to construct well six and design the south water treatmentplant. That's a big one. Um it's in progress right now. Uh complete thesighting study for the northwater treatment plants near as there's a new permit coming out in2026 with some new requirements. Um so transportation and capitalimprovements delivering the 2026 um projects. So, we have the top 14 watervein just right out here by city hall, but also the 2026 neighborhoodimprovements off of Inwood Avenue. Uh, and then continuing to coordinatewith the county and mind on all the projects in town. Again, with 36, uh,and 17 kicking off here, you know, closing, you know, starting the 1 ofJune essentially, that's that's going to occupy a lot of our time. uh underplanning and development. Uh we're going to continue to provide engineeringsupport for private developments, both reviews and construction in the field.And then supporting uh the 2050 comprehensive plan update, which wetalked about a little earlier tonight. That's what I got.>> Thank you. uh mayor and council members and uh alsoadministrator Miller, thank you for uh giving the sheriff's office theopportunity to be part of the annual report. I think this is the first timethat uh we've been part of it. Um in addition to what I'm going to talk abouttonight uh in the full report, there's some statistics in there from 25 and uhsome past years as well to compare to as well as our organizational uh chart. UmI'll start with uh sheriff's office mission. Uh the mission of theWashington County Sheriff's Office is to work in partnership with the communityto provide quality public safety services in respon in a responsiblemanner through innovation, leadership, and the cooperation of dedicated people.Um when we're looking at uh some of our core services, obviously uh our patroldeputies is the most visible aspect of the sheriff's office. Um residents aregoing to see them moving around uh the community on a regular basis. Uh thesedeputies strive to deliver productive and responsibleuh responsive services in a consistent, unbiased and timely manner, includingtraffic enforcement, responding to calls for service, ordinance enforcement, andgeneral public safety with community education and interaction at theforefront. Um, in addition to some of those core uh services you're going tosee our patrol uh deputies uh providing, the sheriff's office also uh providesinvestigative services, our drug task force, human trafficking unit, K9 SWAT,water parks and trails, and um many many more uh services as well. Um when welook at our 2025 highlights, uh traffic enforcement was a big portionof uh what we did last year. We focused a lot on the Lake Elmo Avenue corridorwith a lot of uh um concerns coming in from citizens with uh traffic due to theManning Avenue uh project being closing that roadway down and as well with a lotof construction traffic. Uh we also got a lot of support from our uh communityimpact unit which focuses on traffic. So they also supplemented our patroldeputies with uh some of that traffic enforcement.uh the implementation of our community service officer program. Uh these csosassist our deputies uh with animals, animal complaints, dog complaints,parking issues, ordinance enforcement, patrolling parks. Um these CSOs supportuh our deputies and allow them to focus on reoccurring city issues. Uhconnecting with residents through community engagement is also a priorityfor us. Last year, our deputies attended over 15 community events, includingNational Night Out, city celebrations, school book readings, canandemonstrations, neighborhood watch, rotary presentations, etc. Uh, a fewother things I'd like to uh highlight are some milestones for a few of ourdeputies in the contract. Sergeant Jacobson was recognized for 20 years ofservice, as well as received the meritorious service award from thesheriff's office for 19 years of K9 uh service. Deputy Joe Maloney wasrecognized for five years of service and Deputy Mike Lind Lindholm who has been alongtime uh deputy in the Lake Emo contract. He uh was recognized for 30years of service and is uh coming up for retirement here shortly.Uh looking at 2026, uh we're going to continue to focus on that trafficenforcement and make sure we're addressing those concerns fromresidents. I know we have a lot of uh pending road construction projects thatuh are coming up. So, we're already planning on addressing those trafficconcerns that those will create for us. Uh, we're implementing a new 12-hourschedule with our deputies um by us moving to a 12-h hour schedule. Uh, itincreases our coverage in the city during our peak or higher call volumetimes. So, um, we're upgrading our body camera systems and our recordsmanagement systems. And we also look to uh continue with uh all those communityevents that we've done in the past and uh continue to be a part of those.>> Thank you. Any questions? >> Thank you. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, um,you know me, I'm Sarah, last but not least, and I'm with Candy and Graven.And as you know, you only see me, but there are 35 other people that I workwith that are at your disposal. And I just wanted to kind of go through someof the the other things people do for the city of Lake Elmo in my firm. Um,one thing would be uh labor and employment matters. We have somebodythat specializes in those areas that assist the city with any labor andemployment matters that come up. We also have somebody that works ontelecommunications matters. So if you have a cell tower lease or a cableissue, we usually talk to that person. Um, we also have somebody, Jim Thompson,who handles the litigation related to the water appropriation permit. And, um,we also have somebody specializing in construction issues and constructioncontract disputes that come up from time to time. And then finally, we havesomebody that works on con uh, condemnation eminent domain matters,which we don't have a lot of here in Lake Elmo. Um, primarily as a cityattorney, I work on general matters related to the city. Um that would bemeeting attendance um ordinance drafting review contract review code enforcementissues data practices issues and open meeting law issues. So anything relatedto those kind of general matters is what I primarily work on. And then um myspecialty is real estate. So um things I'm going to highlight for you tonightare basically real estate related matters. So in 2025 um three of the largerprojects that I worked on with the city are um kind of all real estate related.Um the first one was um assisting the city in the acquisition of the Olsen andJurk properties. Those are the Ballfield properties. We drafted the purchaseagreements for both of those properties and then represented the city andassisted with the closing on the purchases of both those properties. Umthe second ma real estate matter that we worked on was assisting the city withthe redevelopment of the former fire station and parks building properties.We helped staff review the request for proposals that went out to thedevelopers and then we assisted the city with the preparation of the propertiesfor sale. Um so far that's involved reviewing the title evidence and um alsoputting together the plat of the property that just got approved. Andthen finally, um, we assisted the city with the acquisition of the property forthe new water treatment plant. Um, we've drafted an option agreement for that.Um, we've also drafted a right of entry and, uh, drafted purchase agreement. So,um, those are kind of the things we worked on in 2025. Those are things Ipersonally worked on. And then for 2026, I plan on there's been a number of codeenforcement issues that seem to keep coming up. So, we'll be assisting thecity with code enforcement matters um just on how certain properties may becleaned up in the city that are having code enforcement violations and thenalso looking at the city's regulations on nuisance abatement in order todetermine if there's any improvements that could be made to those regulationsto make cleaning up properties a little bit easier. And then secondly, umassisting the city with private development projects. There's always alot of development going on in the city. So um there are a lot of legal documentsthat go along with development projects. Um primarily easements, storm watermaintenance easements agreements, landscaping license agreements,development agreements and uh storm water reuse agreements other that's ournewest one. And then right away and utility easements. So we assist staffwith the drafting of and review of all those documents and also negotiatingwith developers on the development agreement and development project. Andthen finally for 2026, um we'll be assisting the city with the continuedredevelopment of the former fire station parks building properties. And that willinvolve drafting a development or purchase agreement and negotiating withthe developers for those projects and then representing and assisting the citywith the closing on those properties when it comes time. All right. And with that, you know,we're looking forward to this next year doing a lot of the same, keeping busy.Um, and since it is already April, we've already started working on a lot of the2026 priorities. So, um, our next steps would be to um, communicate this um,through our communication channels with the community, post on the website. Um,also um, looking for any other opportunities to share this with thecommunity. the mayor will be attending a state of the city um with some otherWashington County cities. So perhaps you can use this as a as a tool or anythingelse that you guys can think of. But we're looking for any feedback you haveum questions and then um now or in the future any changes or additionalinformation you'd like to see for next year's report.>> Thank you. You know, I'll just This is uhyou know, you go dayto day through activities and things that you do, butto be able to look back on a full year of things that staff has done, that thecity has done, that council's been involved with, it's it's quite a bit.And um it's really well done and put together. I think it, you know, providesthat information that I think our residents like to see, you know, whatare they doing over there? Helps answer a lot of those questions. What's goingon in our city? Uh why do they have to do these things? Um I just I appreciateit very much and yes, it will help me in uh at the meeting in May for sure. Uhappreciate it. Anybody else wants to say anything, feelfree. >> Yeah, I I'll just add to that as well. Iguess two comments. One, just in general, just an awesome staff. You guysall do such a great job and um this is really cool to see it all come together.Like you mentioned that obviously there's a lot that goes on. Um butseeing it all tied together into those common themes, I guess that's my secondkind of comment, you know, is to administer Miller like you're doing agreat job with keeping the team focused on what we've set out to do. Um, again,with all the things that happen day-to-day, it's easy to to veer offfrom those things, but you're keeping them keeping the team focused on thosegoals, on those objectives, and then being able to show that to the to us, tothe community. Um, I think it it goes again to the transparency that we'retrying to have, and it you're doing a great job with that, and I think Ireally appreciate the transparency. And, um, I knew when when you first came on,that's what we were really that's what I was very excited to see. you you had alot of vision for that and seeing it come to fruition now is really exciting.>> Thank you. I agree. But I couldn't have done it without everyone else umsupporting me and saying, "Okay, okay, we'll go along with this." And so umstaff has been working on this. Uh probably since November is maybe when westarted talking about it, December. And so it took everyone>> and really good pictures. Whoever got all these pictures, they're okay. Huh?Those were Very good. >> I mean, the only original thing I haveto add to that, and I fully agree with both of you, is that to me, a reportlike this shows the culture of city staff right now. by being able toproduce a report like this that is I mean I don't know what the right termsare to use but this is the type of report that I would expect from a citythat has its ducks in a row that has its priorities correct that has staff thatare doing the job is isn't the right phraseit's it's knowing how to do it correctly as a public servant and it is to me itmakes me think of a a workplace environment where you're doing thingsthe right way for the right reasons on behalf of the public. This this is whathappens when all those things come together. This is one aspect and we'restarting to see it as as Matt was saying, we're seeing it more and morefrequently obviously with the work that's done, but this is yet anotherexample. It's a large one. Charles has a lot to memorize before his state of thecity address >> memorizing. Print this stuff out, man.>> But yeah, I I appreciate it very much so.Yeah, I don't have any uh anything new to add from from everything that wassaid. Everything was said very well. Um I just want to say thank you to you,Nicole, everybody on staff. You guys have had an amazing year. So, thank you.And I know that we dropped the 100year anniversary in your lap very last minuteand we appreciate you guys being flexible and delivering an awesomeevent. So, thank you. >> All right. So,next on the docket is agenda procedures.>> Yeah. Um, mayor and council. So this was discussed at the workshop um last monthin March and um just wanted to recap um this coming back for a discussionfurther discussion but a couple items that were um brought up and we need somefurther direction on um we did not create a draft ordinance because we'restill a little unsure on exactly what direction the council wants to go.items that were brought up were um adding items to the current agenda withthe four fifths vote um during the adoptions agenda with understanding thatno action would be um taken on that topic at that at that night. Um and thenalso um adding things to the next available media agenda which would notnecessarily be a workshop um with a simple majority vote. And then um we arelooking for some more direction from the council um on a desired timeline forwhen your um we would be having staff do some research and um create documentsand recommendations. Um what I did add to this staff reportum that was different from the first one was um trying to outline a little bitmore on how we use our future agenda tracker um that we include in all thecouncil packets as well as to visually kind of show on a calendar our ourdeadlines. We have internal deadlines um for Tuesdays, Tuesday mornings or wellTuesday afternoons for the following week's packet. Um so that gives meopportunity to review the items that staff have prepared and then ask anyquestions or make any modifications as well. So um just um council requestedthis come back so for some more discussion.That's it. >> So I can't rememberI think uh were we all here at the workshop when we discussed this lastwere I was in the Florida Keys.>> That's right. That's right. >> And it was warmer here than there.So I can't So this is this is trying touh answer the question to being able to get something on an agendawithout it having to take potentially three weeks to have discussion on it.um you know in my my six years here that's happened very infrequently and II wouldn't expect it to happen on a regular basis but it would be nice tohave the ability to discuss something without it taking a long time if there'sif there's energy behind it and it needs to be with a rapid response.So, I think what we discussed, like it's it said in the memo here,um I think council member Dragassich, itwas discussed about having a if somebody wanted to put something on the agendafor that meeting or add an agenda item, it would be a four-fifth vote during theadoption of the agenda. uh and there would be discussion, noaction taken place on the topics. Umsimple majority vote just to add it to the workshop or the next meeting.And so I think sometimes the the one question that I'm hearing isin order for staff to be able to react to therequest, I think we'd have to be cognizant of the fact that our agendaitem may not have adequate data or information that staffwould have to for us to be able to make any headway on something.>> Yeah, I think that that's that's certainly reasonable. Mayor, that you ifwe brought up something required a lot of staff research, I think let's say wego through the four fifth vote, we're having the discussion, staff couldadvise council during that discussion that the data required to providesupport may take three weeks for instance to get together. Um certainlywe rely on staff to get that kind of information for us but our currentsystem you're actually wrong can take sevenweeks to get something on an agenda depending on when you put it in justseems overly cumbersome and understand why it is that way that thus aprotection for the four out of five people and discussion only at that firstmeeting but it gives some ability to move things just a little faster and alot of things we do may not require a lot of research like talking about the250th celebration you know, so I'm very very sensitive tothe fact that if we were to come up with should we build a Statue of Liberty inthe downtown district, it could take two months to get the information together.And as council, we have to respect that staff has limited time to donate aswell. And thus that discussion I think allows them to give us that input andfeedback. And I would hope that we would be reasonable and say, "Okay, let's thenset this for not the next meeting, but two meetings out when staff can get theresearch together." But just being able to move things a little faster than thecurrent situation. And I was hoping in the four fifths that it would avoid someof the reasons why you have the ordinance that you have now because I'mvery very respectful of the fact that councils can be dysfunctional. Maybethis one isn't, maybe we are. That's a matter of everyone's opinion, but thingscan get out of hand in a lot of ways and the system we have now kind of providesa guideline to avoid having a whole lot of dysfunction. I think this strikes amiddle balance personally. >> Clarifying question for council.Are we allowed as a city to put in ordinances a limiting action to say oncouncil meetings it's possible that there's an agenda item where we're notallowed to take an action? >> Yes,we have that now. >> Are we allowed to put that in ordinanceto say in this process after a four-fifth vote council is notauthorized to take any action on that agenda item that they do through thisprocess. It's we say for discussion only.>> Well, my question is for council though. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the Philadelphialot a degree. >> Uh Mr. Mayor, members of the council, Imean, anything that you need to take action on is going to be put on youragenda by staff. You know, if it's a, you know, like we had tonight thepreliminary plat, I think that, you know, we had a deadline on that. Theyneed you need to take action by midappril. Um, but if it's somethingthat council's bringing up, I think you can limit it by ordinance and say youneed a four-fifths vote to to bring that up. So say in the year 2029, MayorAnderson Johnson Olsen and three othersignore that rule and they indeed take an action and they pass a resolution to saythis shall happen. What's the mechanism to pro to what's the remedy to preventthat? >> Well, Mr. mayor, members of the councilthat that's a violation of the city's ordinance and that's why we put it inthe ordinance. We put a lot of things in the ordinance that due to thedysfunction back in 2016 that are not that's not normally in the the code.It's usually just rules of procedure policy, but we felt like we needed moreaccountability from the council that they were going to follow those thingsand that's why we put those in an ordinance because then they wereviolating the city's ordinance. And I mean, luckily they did not, you know,say, "Well, I don't care. I'm violating the city's ordinance." But I guess theycould be prosecuted for that if >> Well, because that's that's my concern.Who has standing to enforce that to say those four council members violatedtheir own ordinance or to prevent then that that order from being carried out?say they I guess because I' I've I I can't say Iagree. This is questions. Say those four membersallocate an appropriation for a funding item, but it was something that wasnever researched, didn't go through the process, who would have standing toprevent that the next day or the next week?I think it would be either the the public or the prosecutor>> because it would it be a a misdemeanor to violate?>> Yeah, it' be a misdemeanor. >> Oh, sweet. Okay.>> And that's what I think helped quell some of the issues back in 2016 becausewe were able to say it says in the code you can't do this. So we can put in thecode that that is a misdemeanor if through the four fifth process you endup taking an official action instead of just discussion only. All right.>> So one other question along that line though>> there's a a process where the city council can wave the requirements of anordinance. >> Where is that?>> I don't ask you that question. No. >> Do we? Because sometimes we haveordinance that requires concrete sidewalks and we say we're going toallow batuminous. So, we're waving an ordinance requirement.>> That would be probably a variance. >> Varian.>> I don't think you can. The council can grant itself a variance from itsprocedures. >> That was the question I have. You>> or why have the procedures I guess, right?>> You can say, oh, never mind. You know, >> I don't know if by unanimous vote ifthey could wave the requirement. That was my question.>> Yeah. >> Nope. I mean that's better yet becausethen that prevents what your concern is addressing.>> Yeah. Because >> not going to say because it's not aquestion. >> Well, are we we're not even we're not>> basically this is a discussion. >> Yes. My my underlying concern with anytype of thing is a rule is only as useful as having an effect an anenforcement mechanism. Otherwise, it's futile. I that's my bias. But by thesame to there's nothing that prevent a council from doing something againstthis ordinance. You know, we could say ah the heck with the ordinance we'regoing to put on the agenda tonight and vote on it.>> Well, apparently it's a misdemeanor. >> Understand? But I mean that does that'sit doesn't change what we currently would have in that regard.>> I mean I I guess even earlier today I thought maybe the four fifths vote wasnot really a helpful thing, but I I can understand.I I don't think it's really going to be coming up often and we also have theability to have a special meeting, but I if the rest of the council is supportiveof the forest, I don't necessarily have an an issue per se.>> Do special meetings can special meetings be called by two council members,>> right? >> Or the mayor.>> Or the mayor, right? Okay. Go ahead. >> So, I I'm looking at this a little bitfrom a different perspective. I I'm not looking at it from the perspective ofwhat happens if we have a dysfunctional council. I actually think this makes usa more functional council, period. Um and and I kind of brought this up at theprevious discussion and and I I'm kind of sticking with this is if this if a ifan item gets brought up at the time of a meeting and both staff and council hasno time to to think about it, prepare for it, I I think I think I'm nervous ofa couple things happening. one, there's going to be improper uh informationgiven. I think there could be information um that's omitted, not onpurpose, just because it wasn't um people weren't able to think about it,prepare for it, >> fully vetted,>> fully vetted, right? From a staff perspective, I think from a councilperspective, and again, maybe this is just me individually, but you know, ifthere's a topic that comes up that I am not comfortable with, I don't have a anunderstanding for like normally that's where I'd have time to to prepare for itand come ready to ask those questions. Now, I know it's just a discussion, butthat discussion is what um it's what influences what gets brought back to thecouncil meeting. It it it influences what ultimately happens, I think, prettyheavily. So, if we can't have clear direction at that time, we're going togive unclear direction and then I'm going to have two weeks or staff's goingto have two weeks to go think about this, get the actual information. It'sgoing to come back. It's going to be a completely different thing presented.Now, the public has heard two different things. We get confusion. I think thisis going to make council. I think it's going to make uh our decisionsum more dysfunctional. I so I I I I know it can be frustrating havinginefficiencies or uh with government things taking longer times, but I thinkit's on purpose when we have as many stakeholders as we do. Um so I just Ireally feel like even though this was maybe in initially put in place becauseof a dysfunctional council, I think it it's kind of forced us to stayfunctional and keep everything functional. And so it's not so much justus. It's because of the the framework that we're playing in. It keeps us ontrack. >> So, a member of the city staff can putsomething on the council days before the meeting. It's our agenda, but electedofficial can take seven weeks to get something on the agenda. And you thinkthat's reasonable? Well, so give me an example of of a time where a staff putssomething on the agenda that it isn't something that we have previously talkedabout, something that's been brought up, something that we've asked to um is beas part of our our yearly objectives or goals. I just I can't think of anythingwhere it was like a random item brought up. Now, yes, there may say, hey, youknow, based off of next month, uh so- and so director is not going to be ableto make it. we need to put it on this agenda as a result of that. Like I thinkthat's kind of a a logistical call when they make that point. Now, if you cancome up with an example of where they just kind of cherrypick a random item,throw it on the agenda. Yeah, I have concerns about that as well. I just Ihaven't seen that happen. >> Go down the agenda for this evening'smeeting. How many how many of those things did you see before this meeting?>> Well, there's the agenda. >> They're items that we've talked about inworkshops. There's items that we we set as goals and objectives during our ourplanning. >> Really? So, we talked about thedevelopment um that we were working on tonight where we had the the petuminouspath. >> Well, how long have they been working onthat? >> How long have you been working on it?That's the question. My point is, you know, we get it. We get>> I can answer your question. I can answer your question on that. I've been able towork on it since Thursday when I got the packet. At least if it get if it got tome as we start the meeting, I I have no time to look into it. I have no time toto ask questions to community members to get that feedback to do my own research.I have no time to do that. Neither does the staff. And I think so that still isjust kind of again I might be the only person feeling that way. And I I do feellike, you know, if we are going to move forward with this, I I I do at leastthink the four fifths is a good compromise. I I just I think then thestaff is going to have to be very um what's the right word? Um they're goingto have to be very transparent and clear. If they don't know the answer tosomething, they're going to have to be very clear and transparent if theyhaven't received clear direction from us. Because if we haven't given cleardirection, if they have unclear answers, that's going to lead us to give unclearand bad requests for what we brought brought back to the next meeting. Andthen that's going to create dysfunction and chaos at the next meeting.>> So I have a question just for clarification. So with this four-fifthvote, what is your objective to get somethingon the agenda? Is it one week? Is it two weeks? Is it the same day? Like whatdoes that look like? >> I think we have meetings every We havetwo meetings a month. >> Yeah.>> Okay. So, if we're at the tonight, we're at the first meeting of the month.>> It would be nice if we could get something on the next agenda two weeksfrom today, you know, rather than seven weeks from today.>> I just think it's outrageous as an elected official, it's our C citycouncil meeting. It's not city staff meeting. It's city council meeting. Weare the council. Yet we have no ability to put something on the agenda sometimeat the for the next meeting. We want to take a motion tonight. Let's put this onthe agenda for the next meeting. We can't do it on this ordinance.>> Sure. >> We can put on the next workshop.Unfortunately, it's not 11 days before the next workshop. So, we have to go tothe workshop in May and then have to get out of the workshop in May be maybeeither the last meeting of May or the first meeting in June, we could get ontwo months or more for a council person to get something on the agenda isoutrageous in my opinion. I've never seen>> are we are we not able to let's say we have workshop next Tuesdayif we wanted something are we not able to put something on the agenda for theworkshop next Tuesday for discussion >> 11 days in advance is what the ordinancesays >> right currently the ordinance doesn'tallow that but I'd like to talk about the logistical implications for that ourpackets go Thursday >> two daysfor next Tuesday. Um, a lot of the items that are on there staff have beenworking on for a while. Some of them are quicker, but some take a long time. Youpick it up, you do some work on it. You realize it's going to it's taking youdown a different path, whatever. You need more time and you're working on itmaybe not consistently for a long time, but you're working on it. Um, so, andthe internal deadline was today for for me to be able to look and see whatstaff's prepared. So they have to have their all their material done beforethis meeting today. Um so I can look at it, understand it, ask any questions,talk about um what I think the council might ask if things are missing and wewe work together. So that just gives them tomorrow and then we put out thepacket Thursday. >> Thursday.>> Yeah. So that's kind of what we need. I mean, however the council decides, youknow, staff will follow. But I just wanted to illustrate that if you were toadd next Tuesday's agenda. You're giving staff tomorrow with and then part ofThursday to research it and we're all and yeah, it just doesn't seem like areally good idea. >> Council member Holtz.>> Well, in regards to early in regards to early question like thepreliminary plat, no, it hasn't come before council, but I mean we all knowthis. There's statutory requirements for when a land use application has to beact upon. It went to planning commission. There's a public hearing. Weweren't there, but we watched it. So, I I don't think I don't think that's yourintent for an example. I think your intent for an example would be thingsthat are council ad hoc creations. Correct. I don't think that's really thetype of example you're looking for where we didn't see it. Well, yeah. We're notsupposed to see it before that because it's going through the land useapplication process. Am I Am I Is that fair?>> Yes. >> So, IAnd we couldn't bring something like that up on the agenda anyway becausethey have to go through a land use process first, >> right? One other thing I wanted to pointout is um currently operationally um we've um told our department heads thatthey don't have to attend every meeting unless they have something on theagenda. So if you do add something to the agenda and you want to discuss itwith the four fist vote and you want to have staff there to vet out and tell youwhen they how long they need for research, you might not have the rightstaff person in the room. So >> well that would be a reason not to havea four-fifth vote. Right. >> Yeah. Yep.>> If we looked around and said, "Well, >> Pete's not here. It's public works item.We we we can't really discuss it fully." I mean,that guess I'm looking for a balance thatthat allows something to be discussed without action item. I guess that wouldbe my recommendation is understandingThe ordinance probably keeps us from being dysfunctioned, but it I think ifwe put in the language, it says it's not an actual item. It can be discussed asan added agenda item. I don't really quite honestly see that coming up veryoften at all, but if there is a compromise, that would be the one I' theonly one I'd be willing to accept. >> Maybe a compromise is we can bring it upin a four-fifth vote. It will go on the next council agenda, next regularmeeting agenda. That would give we'd have no discussion and it give two orthree weeks for research. >> Well, it could it would have to give atime frame for staff to address appropriately, but if we didn't have anydiscussion, then there wouldn't be able to have any direction on what thequestion is, though. >> I agree.>> So then then that's kind of a moot moot point.I mean, it's the horse before the cart or cart before thehorse. I Wow, it's 9:30 because it couldYou're right and you're right. Like, yes, there are sometimes lengths.They're intentional. It's so we don't do stupid things. Um, we have been adv in avery advantageous position because of this policy which was put in placebecause of bad things. So, we've had a luxury of benefiting from that processand making sure we are doing things in a vetted way with the assistance of staff.I I don't disagree. It I can understand why it is frustrating to have that typeof delay. I also don't the type of situation where this wouldcome up in a four-fifth vote, I think would also be the exact same reason wewould call a special meeting. That's the hard part I'm having is I can'tconceptualize a situation where we would do a four-fifth vote that night versus aspecial meeting the next day. >> And the difference in staff preparationis hours. >> They have one day to say there's anemergency that's going to cost $100,000 to fix andthe statutory authority for that requires us to have a vote for it rightnow. like I'm thinking of the worst possiblesituation. Other than that, I I can't think of a sit of a situation where aspecial meeting would not remedy it. The underlying concern to say we need todiscuss this tonight because I assume unless you're thinking more so thingsthat are not emergencies, but you want to be able to discuss.>> I'm I was referring to emergencies. I know we can have emergency meeting.Yeah. >> You know, if the roof is in on the firehhall and we need to have emergency meeting. Yeah, we can have one. I wastrying to just say let's just have a discussion of it and put on the agendatwo weeks from now. The purpose of discussion was just to find out ifthere's any, you know, any we could come to a consensus. There's no reason to puton the agenda. >> So, so now I'm hearing put on the agendafor two weeks from now, not the next meeting.>> Yeah. It's next regular council meeting. It could be two or three weeks dependingon what what point it comes up. >> A nonworkshop.>> Yeah. A non workshop. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, Miss Miller, I I see you putsome examples in here and I'm just I'm seeing that, but it's not clear.I'll just pull for example. It says two council members or mayor to add to theregular council agenda, but that doesn't indicate if it's at the meeting or ifit's prior to the meeting. Um it it's it seems like you know WhiteBear Lake adds things to the regular agenda beforeit's adopted. Um likely going under discussion.>> No member, no memo, no staff time. So it it it does occur in some othermunicipalities. Correct. >> Yep. So, the responses I included wereresponses from other city administrators, city managers, justletting me know how they handle it. It was not taken directly out of theircode. Some of them don't, you know, have this specified in their code.>> Yeah. >> Um, but just to kind of get a feel ofhow they might do it. >> Um, >> just to show you kind of the breadth ofthe differences in communities was my intent with that.Okay, >> Wyoming is interesting. If the requestcomes with sufficient lead time, >> well,>> yeah. >> Yeah, it's>> and with my communication with the other administrators and my um leadershipnetwork, it was kind of um they kind of work together as a team>> to see what staff's what's what's on staff's plate, when's the next meetingthat could happen. Um that's also been previous experience of mine. um um islooking together to see, okay, we already have these items on our nextworkshop. We're we're going to add another thing where it's a prioritylessshift and working together. Um but Lake Elmo has this in the codefor a reason. Um, and so I guess my ask is um if you do change anything about umthe timeline, it it would be nice for so staff knows like what kind of timelineyou're looking for. I>> Right. >> I mean, I guess you could change it tobe like other communities I am familiar with where you just talk it out, butit's up to you guys. One thing I say about the two council people or themayor to add it to the agenda still it goes back to it's got to go on the nextworkshop which could be 11 days away. The other problem is as elected officialI can call council person Hearn and say you know Hearn Matt I'm thinking aboutasking to add running water to the to the next workshop. Would you support meon this so we can each call Nicole and tell her to put it on? If he says no Idon't believe in that then I'm out because I can't contact a third one. andI violate the open meeting law. So, I got one shot to get a secondcouncil person to, you know, to go along with me and then I'm done.>> That's the other problem I have with that.>> Pick wisely. >> Pick wisely. Yeah. So>> um another clarification just for your conversations looking for moreinformation on um if you want to continue to have these type ofdiscussions which is kind of feels like a workshop discussionthen you want to do these at regular agendas. Should we look at modifying theagenda to have a discussion section too? Um, and then I did throw in there anoption just if we're getting away from our traditionalor our discussions being had at workshops, then perhaps you want to lookat maybe doing a workshop before each regular meeting and splitting the workupso it's more frequently, but it's the same amount of work split up betweentwo. Just some options. >> I'll get I'll give my feedback on thatright away. I I don't think we should. I think again part of the reason we'vebeen so focused on going after our goals and our objectives is because we know ifwe want to work on those, we have to be proactive and we have to plan for it atthat next workshop. We have to make sure we're looking ahead and putting it onthat meeting. I I I see if that happens where we have a workshop at every singlemeeting. I think kind of similar to like when we had the 250th celebrationdiscussion come up and we were we weren't able to give any goodsuggestions to staff on on what we were even looking for from it. I I think itis just going to create more uh more noise, less clarity. Yeah, I think this process broughtstability to an unstable council and we've reaped the benefits from it and Idon't think we should be I and again I see both sides. Sevenweeks is a long time, but I feel like it's there for a reason to help staff tohelp us with our thoughts about everything. And with the patuminousexample, we can watch those planning commissionmeetings and be a part of them. And we if we put something on the agenda, youguys don't have any time to to plan for that. So, I think it's there for areason. It doesn't feel broke. So, I don't feel like we should try to fix itat this point. >> Okay,>> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes.>> Um, I just wanted to add one thing because I know some people were sayingit was getting late um back when we didn't have this rule.>> That's what happened. Um, they somebody would bring it up and then they wouldfight about it for a couple hours and then there'd be scrambling. If it got onthe agenda, then it would be, you know, here I'm passing this information out,everybody read it because we had council members preparinginformation to give out to the council to make a decision on at the meeting andthat put a lot of time into the meeting where we were not getting done till 34:00 in the morning. >> You like to go to bed early.>> We also have an ordinance that the meeting won't go past midnight.>> Yes. You have a curfew. >> Yes.curfew for adults. Yeah. >> Is there is there a compromise withI can't remember exactly how you said it what the logistical issue would be of ifwe had something that weum wanted to add to a workshop today, right? So, first Tuesday meeting of themonth, we we'd really like to see it on the workshop a week from now so we couldtalk about it at the second city council meeting of the month.>> Is is there some sort of because again at least then if we said today that wewant to discuss this at the next workshop that works.>> We don't have to wait a month and a week, we can wait a week.>> Yes. >> Then staff has a day to prepare it forworkshop coming up. Well, but there's really not much preparation forworkshop. It the workshop is discussion for council on>> what we'd ask and it it still doesn't mean that that the next week is going togive means we can ask for stuff but I meanthe understanding needs to be that you're not going to get it in anotherweek. It may not give ample t enough time forthat to be fully vetted for properum if you're going to take action onsomething. >> Yeah, we don't take action at workshops.We just discuss it. >> No, but I mean so so if we discuss it ata workshop, council member Jarus, what I'm saying is and we come up with someuh direction to give to staff.>> That's not to say that they'd be able to deliverthat information because Okay, so Tuesdays>> Well, I agree. I agree with that. Yep. >> You just you wouldn't have enoughturnaround time to get that information. It would it would kick it out, you know,a couple weeks still. >> May it may not be at the next meeting,maybe two meetings from then, >> right?>> Yep. That's not a problem at all. that expedites it beyond so we're notwaiting seven weeks to get it on the workshop. But I fully understand that ifwe're asking to, you know, reinvent nuclear power, it may take them morethan a week to get that information. >> If it was the second council meeting ofthe month, then they'd have I guess the situation wouldn't applythen anyway, so never mind. Right. >> Yeah. Okay.>> And so we wouldn't have it at the second council meeting of the month. We'd havethe first council meeting the following month. So really the only time this is aconcern for you is when it's if there's something you want to discuss at thefirst city council meeting of the month. That's where it becomes an issue foryou. >> Well, if we took it up at the secondcouncil or first one. Yeah, I guess so. Just it does take seven weeks. I'm justtrying to get the time down below. Seven weeks to get it on a workshop and thenyou're nine week or eight weeks to get it on the council agenda.>> All right. So, all right. Now, hearing that thegist of the whole thing is to reduce I I think there's got to be somethingwhere we can still reduce it from 11 weeks or whatever it is to get it ona council meeting >> or seven weeks. Seven weeks>> 11 days. Yeah. >> 11 days. If we can if we can havesomething that even if it's discussion at a workshop, but it's not going to befor the next council meeting,it would be nice to be able to discuss things to give direction and clarifythings at a workshop without waiting a full month. We will I don't know how we would writethis in a code, but my concern with it is just um if council votes to addsomething to the next workshop for discussion is what if the staff personthat needs to be there isn't available. We have vacations and so forth. So Ijust don't know how because that's the point of the workshop is to hear thediscussion and then talk about type of resources,>> have the staff weigh in, ask those questions.Understood. >> So, if there's something going to be ona workshop agenda item and that council person, I mean, the staff person is notnot going to be available that night, they're going to be in Hawaii.>> Do you then take it off the workshop and put on the next one?>> Right now, staff is able to manage our time that way. That's that futureagendas tracker. Um, if staff has a planned vacation, we don't we're we givethem that flexibility to say, you know, to to balance their workloadand to pick a meeting they're actually going to be present at.So, that's currently how we do it within reason. We don't they don't get to say,okay, I'm not um I don't want to do that. I'm not doing that for six months.That's not how it goes. But um as you can see from the annual report just allthe different priorities they have and the future agenda tracker as well. So>> so but our departments all have more than one staff person.>> So if the department if if Jace is not available someone else from the staffcan come and talk about the issue. Why does that be a single staff person?You know that's why we have departments. What if you got hit by a bus and wasn'tgoing to be around the next night? You'd find you you'd find someone to come andstand at that microphone. >> Well, we do have very limited staff. Imean, we do have multiple people and staff, but they don't all um do the samejob or do the research. I mean, I guess um having this discussion March 10thwhen I was um not able to be here, you know, I had that was the one meeting Iknew I was going to miss being out of country. I prepared the staff memo andgave it to you. you know, Clark was able to stand in because of his previoushistory with the city being around in 2015, 2016, but um yeah, I mean there'snot always someone that necessarily could stand in.>> I'll go back to what I said. >> Everyone has a system.>> We have discussion on the agenda and the staff person who's supposed to talkabout it. Something happens, they get an emergency. Yeah.>> We don't take it off the agenda. Some other staff person stands in and talksabout it. >> No, we have in the past. We've had staffthat come up with illness right before a meeting and we amend the agenda if theycan't be here, you know. >> So, so you amend the agenda, but a citycouncil person can't do it. >> We can ask for items to be removed.>> We do it. >> We can remove>> I'm sorry I brought the issue up. >> No, we can we can remove agenda items. Imean, I I'll just I I'm I do want to figure out a way to make this work, butI I feel like this system works and I feellike there's too many risks to changing it. Um I I I almost evenhesit I'm kind of I wish I almost wouldn't even have said anything thereabout the the workshop thing because again it goes back to well it's now theyhave one day to prepare and I I just I I think there is a reason that we'vebeen able to be as effective as we have over the last year with the goals andit's because when something gets brought to a meeting it is fully vettedand I' I've seen this time and time again you know where it goes from theplanning commission it gets to and the planning commission has a a two-hourdiscussion and we have a two-minute discussionbecause it's been able to been fully vetted really well thought out becausethey had that proper information, the time to think through it.And so I think it actually speeds things upin the end. even though we're we're waiting a couple extra weeks to talkabout it, we're speeding that process up rather than having to wait say, "Okay,maybe we need to table this because we don't have the full information." Orprobably as a worse situation is making a decision with not all the informationor or erroneous information. That's probably the worst situation that comesfrom this. No, >> doesn't feel like we're going to getconsensus on this as far as given direction on a change.>> And I will just add that we do have the ability tocall a special meeting if one is needed in order to bring up an item.Um I I just don't see I see thisconversation going on for a while longer without reaching a a consensus. So, is it something we have brought tothe meeting to vote on or >> There's nothing to vote on.>> Well, have it brought to a meeting to vote on changing that ordinance or>> Well, that would that would require giving staff direction on what tochange. >> Well, otherwise you leave it the same. Got it.>> If there's no change, there's no vote. >> I guess I'm just kind of thinking thisfrom the perspective, right? We have workshops where we have discussions andwe don't give clear direction unanimously, right?>> It still has to get brought to us to vote on. Is this a little differentsituation where you're just saying, "Hey, if we don't have unanimous,>> it's not unanimous. There's not a consensus.">> So, if we don't have consensus on this, you just don't even want to have itbrought to a meeting for a vote. >> There's the way I'm hearing it. There'stwo leave it the same, two looking for compromise, and well, you know, threelooking for a compromise or but not having a real uhdirect way to make that happen without it kind of turning into something thatwe all none of us want to happen. At least I don't I don't see thatuh how to make that without it becoming a potential issue.I understand the if if we need to have aif we need to have a special meeting, then we'll call a special meeting. Imean, that's kind of my that that's the fallback position. And if a council member can't make it,we just we need a quorum. We need three people and that's what we'll do. Or atleast that's my my my opinion. That doesn't mean, you know,I'm just making a recommendation. I think we all see an opportunity there.We don't have an answer to make it uh there's there's pros and cons andthere's no way to make the pros without the cons.If there was a way, I'm sure we'd figured it out. All right, I'm going to close discussionon that. going to move into the 250th anniversaryof the USA celebration discussion. >> Back on March 10th, the city councildiscussed this and then wanted to continue their discussions. I believeafter um council was going to reach out to some of our local organizations tosee if partnerships are taking a lead. Um but staff was not directed to do anyadditional work. This was just to be brought back um for a discussiontonight. >> So currently there are three events.Lake Elmo Night Out, Light Up Lake Elmo, Fourth of July, Kitty Parade.Um, I guessuh I'll ask council member Dragus since he did attend auh connect lake Elmo meeting where theytalked about the 250th. >> There really didn't talk much about it.>> No, >> you know, they wonder if the city waswilling to, you know, do something to support that celebration, but I don'tknow. I guess we have to put it on a workshop. It takes another seven weeksand the fourth should I'll be behind. >> All right. All right. All right.So, I guess the one thing that that's part of this and you know what we're inApril now. So, we're two months ahead of where we were lastyear. And I I do think that um I don't know if other council members want tochime in on this, but I got a lot of feedback from residents that theyuh really liked the event. I would like to try and have an annual event for thecity that uh uses and we don't have budget this year. I understand that. Didnot put it in the budget from last year. um budget process was prior to thatevent in September. Um,but I would I would like us to consider that whether 250thcelebrations appropriate on an on the annual thing oryou know I was hoping something could be done at the 4th of July because that'sreally kind of when it happens uh 250th not that we couldn't saysomething on an annual event. the connect lake was thinking more of anannual event and not Fourth of July weekend but kind of an annual event. Umand since this 250th celebration be something, you know, that would maybe bethe theme in this year but future years might be a different theme. But theywere not thinking Fourth of July weekend. They were thinking some otherweekend. I mean myseveral thoughts I I agree long-term something similar last year on an annualbasis. I don't think we are prepared to do thatfor this year. Um we don't have a staff member whose specific duties is outreachand event coordination. Maybe we will down the road. Um,I would say in terms of July 4th verse, so July 4th,we have a specific tradition with the kids parade. We have National Night Out.I foresee that that type of annual thing adding to National Night Out to make itadd the features from last year's hundth to National Night Out. Whether it's theband and fireworks, those two things right there areprobably the things that got the most attention. I mean, at least that was myperspective or the most attention-seeking things, the thingsthat got the most stories afterwards. Are there ways to are there ways tobring that to National Night Out? Um, >> National Night's Out on a Tuesday.>> Well, that sucks. >> Making that noise.>> Well, no one likes to work Wednesdays. So in in regards to July 4th parade, Igiven I know that it was coversome for staff this past year. Are are thereother things we can do for July 4th to show yes this is a unique year in ournumbering system 250 with our way we do numbers matters more than 249.Is it flags on every light pole and then we use those every year thereafter? Isare there other things, other amenities toadd features to the July 4th parade withoutgoing as much as we did last year with the hundth? If there aren't, therearen't. But to me, I feel like there are. But I I still I do long-term wise,yes, I think we we should have a yearly celebration.It's hard because we do have the national night out and that is very wellattended as well and I don't want to necessarily duplicate that two monthsearlier. >> Two months earlier>> with a with a July 4th all day. >> A month earlier>> a month earlier. Yeah. Month earlier. >> Connect were thinking like you know theSeptember time that was kind of their discussion because it seems to it seemsto fit real well last year. And were they kind of they were more thinkingthey want city to kind of organize it, run it or did they give much feedback?Was it just city financially support it? >> Well, it obviously financially support,but there was a discussion about, you know, a committee establishing acommittee with the, you know, civic organizations and the merchants downtownum to come up with a plan that would work and everyone agree would be in thecity. something the city could enjoy and be a broad-based support.>> Yeah. >> And so kind of thinking, you know, wecouple people from the council, connect, lake, Elmo, Rotary, the, you know, themerchants downtown. So there' be this everyone have some say in what it shouldbe, where it should be, and >> it's a good time frame in that Septembertime frame, too. People are back in town.>> Yeah, that was a discussion. Yeah. >> And so I I do really like the idea, Iguess. Yeah. You know, it is tough without having budgeted for this year.Obviously, you know, that doesn't mean we can't do it. Um I I guess when I waslooking at this, I was thinking more about the 250th thing specifically, sotrying to focus around that Fourth of July. Um and I know we talked about thislast time and and I think the Connect Lake Malready does such a great job with that Fourth of July parade. You know, I don'tthink we need to do another event by any means. You know, maybe we can add to it.I I I've heard a lot of residents ask about the flag poles. I I it sounds likethat's something we used to have on Main Street. Um you know, I've been askedabout that. I >> previously we were told that we couldn'tdo anything, but then when we asked last year we can and uh I think there'sprobably a way to get a vendor involved where we can do that. Well, and Ireached out >> to American Flagpole Company right indowntown Stillwater just to kind of get a rough idea of, you know, what doesthat even look like? >> Um, and you know, I obviously I didn'tget like a formal bid on this or anything, but it sounds like it could bein that, you know, $1500 to $200 per pole range, uh, coming off of the flagpole. So, something reasonable. I didn't count how many I guess lights there aredown there that we'd have to put them on, but um I I I it doesn't have to bethat, but something along that line of some way of enhancing that downtownarea, something that we can reuse year after year, so it's not just somethingthat we're doing this year. It's something that we can reuse, you know,potentially it can be used for putting other things up duringthroughout the year. Um seasonal type things.So, I guess that was more my thought or you know like the B if there was a hitfrom the the block party, right? If it was bringing in the band in addition tothat Fourth of July parade, somehow like enhancing that parade, I think would waskind of how I was looking at it. But to the point of like an annual event, I dolike the idea of, you know, doing something in September.I would still just as a city prefer to be less on the financial supporting sideof it and more on the uh logistical, permitting,legal aspect of it, >> providing the support there however wecan and making it as little red tape as possible for them and then asking thecommunity and the businesses um to really step up and and I guess uhit doesn't have to cost that much, right? You know, I I like your idea ofjust being able to showcase the differentrestaurants, the different bars, being able to to bring business to them. Iguess just trying to figure out a way to do that without the city having to>> spend $50,000 each year on it. >> Well, I think without the fireworks,when you talk tents, tables, chairs, >> Yeah.>> stage, ban,>> food trucks. >> Yeah. They're they're not a cost, right?>> Right. Yeah. They were almost nothing, >> right?>> Yeah. >> So, I think you're talking less. Well,it's definitely less than 20, closer to 15.>> Yeah. So, I guess if maybe that helps provide more direction from mystandpoint, too, is like if we're in that 10 to $15,000 per year range, Ithink that's acceptable to me. 50,000 I just I don't know if we can do afireworks show every year. >> No.>> And I don't think they're I think they're looking more at the you know,the street dance is really a big hit. Yeah. and they talked about the flags,you know, getting flags on the light poles. Um, butit, you know, I think that again, we didn't have time last year to get intoan engagement with the commercial businesses and there's some talk aboutmaybe one night there's a a multi-day thing, but the expanding would just befor the street, you know, the street dance thing, but maybe one day like be a>> I don't know, a bar hopping thing. Sure. whatever you know that's the purpose ofgetting >> the community involved and saying whatwould you like to have >> and getting having the merchants havesome input into it what would they be willing to support and>> maybe won't maybe wherever you end up because we won't have the fireh hall youknow where would the street dance take place and if I'm>> if I'm one of the establishments you know can I get a move my license to atemporary location by the street dance so I can gain from this>> you know for down at the end by the railroad tracks by the become a win.What good is it to the Twin Points or Marma?>> Sure. >> You know, or um>> and that's where we can help out ideally. I mean, we're generating ideas right nowwhere we're not really giving feedback to staff for the 250th. Like, what>> I don't think that I don't know that there's much we can add for the 250thand let I mean, my my proposal would be we did it in less time than last year.And certainly learning from last year, it wouldn't take as much time on my partto pull together the stage, the band, and the tents and tables and chairs.Maybe where it's at, and it can we use some is there some funds that we coulduse for that if we keep it in that 15 range?and does not mean that we can't solicit uhbusinesses to to um donate to bring down that total cost. But I guess that wouldbe my ask if you guys are on board as to can you find us 15K?Can we agree on a September 12th time frame?Uh, that's about when we did it last year.And I mean, I'll I'll I'll carry the yolkfor the three things that I did last year. if somebody can do thethe uh food trucks again and uh work with public works to close offthe street and permit and all that, but I don't want to I don't want to doit unless the rest of the council wants to do it. And>> just so you're thinking do that as the 250th celebration in September with whatyou were talking about? >> Yeah, we we could add we could saysomething in there. We can put up banners on the on the uh street polesuh light poles and then the the let's say thehypothetical 15,000 that we raise would that be just I mean would that be up tous how we spend that or would that specifically be towards the band and allthat stuff or would it be like hey we have enough money to have a smallfirework display as well. >> Yeah. I don't know that you're going toget What was the fireworks last year, Chief?>> Thought it was right around 18,000. >> Yeah. Oh, really? Okay.>> Per minute per minute. So, if you It's going to be like 3 minutes.>> Yeah. >> While they were they were absolutelyfant, >> but I'm I'm not even going down thatroad unless somebody is like >> donates,000.that put extra stress on the fire department having that all there andthere is that to take into account. >> There's a great learning experience.>> It was great. But I think if we can concentrate on getting the other thingsin place and working it out with, you know,>> I think it just gives people a and I more than likely we won't have theparking lot to have it in. We will actually have to have it in a street. Uhthere might be some coordination on figuring out power for the band and thatstuff, but everything else is pretty easy.>> This is future discussion. Well, couldn't we just use the library parkinglot? >> I don't know. We could ask.>> Yeah, just future discussion point, but >> All right. So, you're not thinkinganything additional for July 4th except maybe flags. But>> or I'm not I'm >> No, I seriously I>> banners could go out there on those polls.>> No, I we are a small town. Small towns have flags.>> Administrator Miller, do you think flags would be available for July 4th withyour contacts? >> We want 250 flags.>> Yeah. So, um this is >> something I also thought about. Um well,we'll have to get permission from Excel. You know, we don't own the poll, so wehad to go through their process. But um uh also because this council is sosupportive of community pride and um I was thinking about you know coming upwith um having permanent flags out there that represent the city of Lake Elmooutside of um July 4th through September if you want to keep regular flags up orwhatever your time frame is but in something else. So then me contactingExcel if we just I don't know anything it the um banner contraptions arealready there. Could we have a banner flag or like a flag that tips out? Youknow like am I asking because they're they ask for how it's going to connectto the flag or the light? >> Well, we're not asking for the big uhplant baskets that Bayport has hanging from theirs. Well, that's cuz Bayportowns a Michael, right? >> No, they don't.>> I thought they said they did. >> No, they don't.>> One of them does. >> No, they don't. Because my thoughtchecked. >> Yeah. So, yes, my Yes. All of that.>> And even here's the December one, >> the seasonal. Here's the city one duringall other months, and here's the July one.to me again I just said it in small towns they decorate those things in yourdowntown area like that is an expectation in Americana period and so II've I literally get comments from friends who come like where are theflags like what are you talking about what they don't have any>> bring them back >> yes u so one thing I saw I was in adifferent state where their flags on the polls it wasn't the full flag here's Ithink it violates the flag mode, but it was a vertical flag like this. There'sIt wasn't all 13 stripes, but if because those are things we hung on the thepoles last year, the vertical signs instead of a whole flag that's hangingout, >> it was a representation of a flag inthat shape, probably using a similar style. But yeah, I'll defer.>> Yeah, I I have a vendor. The city of Hugo has nice city banner signs. So,I'll contact the vendor and say, "What do you do for the American flag? Can youhave a banner? Do we need to look at something else?" So I can I'll take thaton all the flags banners. >> So>> but I need a little bit more direction on is the council going to form acommittee to work with uh community orgs and businesses or what else is>> I don't know if we need a committee or if I'll just take the marching ordersand start calling people. But I'm welcome. I'm welcome all in any help.>> I got food trucks. I can take it again. There we go. I have more time to getbetter food trucks this time, too. >> And the food trucks, they did haveminimums and we met them, so we didn't have to pay anything. But if we don'tmeet minimums, then there are there is a cost some of them.>> Yeah, there was minimums for some that were like 1,500, but it was really easyto meet those with how many people showed up.>> And we have more time to advertise now. >> Exactly.>> On prior to>> Okay. You don't got to worry about flyovers orany of that stuff. >> I was really hoping for that. Justkidding. >> Is it Can I Can I get a Yes.>> Is that >> That sounds great.>> Council, >> send us the bill in a couple months forthe up to 15 appropriation. And >> yeah,>> let's just say approximately 15. I hate to be at 15.>> Approximately in that ballpark, but I I think that's that's doable.and flags >> and plus the flags.>> Plus the flags. That's outside the 15. Yes.>> All right. >> Yes. We'll>> move on >> because it's not going to be cheap.>> Council reports. Council member Jagassich.>> Yeah. I had the opportunity to look through the city's financial policiesand I would like to suggest that seven weeks from now we put this on a workshopagenda because it's it's about seven years old and there's some things inthere I think, you know, that we should address. For instance, the policy,current policy allows a city administrator to approve a constructionchange order on a project up to $100,000 without any council approval.>> And there's, you know, some that's in there. And then there's leasing, theythink lease equipment. Um, all lease agreements can be done without councilapproval. And so I think it's not a backward, but I think we need to take alook at the policy and talk. Do you really want to allow, you know, theadministrator approve $100,000 expenditure without council approval?>> I've never seen a change or I've seen>> the policy whether it's been used or I mean I'm just saying we can go throughthe policy and make corrections like that to it. That's fine>> to make sure it's clear and concise and and and up to date and um>> so let's put that on the >> u mayor and councel I have added thatfor the May workshop. >> Okay. Thank you.>> It's on the future agenda track. >> Thank you.Appreciate it. Council member Holt, >> I was going to give a thank you toRockpoint Church. It was in the consent agenda, but they are volunteering theirspace to be a election site for future elections and that that's a I mean it'sa logistical piece for them and to me that's serving the public. It's servingthe community and so thank you to them for doing that. Uh it's a great site.It's a beautiful facility and um kudos for their public service.Um, Thursday I will be representing the cityof Lake Elmo at the house. It's a finance committee, right?>> Yeah. >> House finance committee trying to uhsecure some funds to help us with the uh obligation of payment at the 36 and 17intersection to reduce um the burden of the residents here. So wish me luck.No report. >> No report.>> No report. >> Staff report.>> No report. >> No report.>> Uh just quickly um uh next week they'll start tearing down the old Lions Parkplayground. Um so down there the new one will go in fairlyquickly two weeks down to Mother's Day.>> I didn't see that on the annual report. Pete,>> no report. >> No report.>> No report. >> All right.Uh adjourn the meeting. Thanks.