Order the parks commission meeting for Lake Elmo for November 17, 2025. >> All right, we'll do the pledge of allegiance. >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, moving on to the agenda approval. Is there anybody who would like to make any changes to the agenda? >> I didn't see the minutes. Did I have an old packet? >> The minutes were not released. I'll leave it on there and we'll >> okay >> keep it to say that they're not there. Anything else for the agenda hearing? None. All in favor of approving the agenda say I. >> I opposed. >> It's approved. Now we get to the minutes. And as I just announced, the minutes from the October meeting were not prepared. >> Yeah. Yeah, and just to be transparent with that, our clerk is out uh on leave right now. So, uh when So, those will be available for our next month's meeting. >> Yes. So, everyone keep your notes and remember what happened or watch the videotape which only is a threequarters of the meeting, but anyway. Okay. >> We did receive our notes from Ellen. That was very good. >> All right. Public comment. Not hearing any public comment. Parks reservation policy. Yes. Thank you, chair, commissioners. As you remember, we did review the parks um use policy back in June. Um after review of that um I hesitated about bringing that actually forth in front of city council because the next conversation came up pretty quickly and that was in regards to our pickable noise. Um through some realm of that we did make some changes in regards to our pickle wall times and um lighting at some of those. So that does change the process that we did kind of go through and approve for city council to review. So, kind of bringing that back and circling that back with uh the commissioners here to just again uh take a good look over it. Do we need to change anything? Do we need to adapt anything before we uh present this again to or forward this on to city council? So, again, the issue tonight would would the park commission like to recommend the changes to the reservation policy? Our current policy states um reservations for ball fields uh shelters, the Lions Park shelter, and the courts. Again, all of these are refundable. Um ball fields $50 a day, $500 um for the season. Uh shelters uh $50 a day, $100 a day. Again, all refundable. So, um talked about the field lights a little bit uh at those meetings there. Those are the things that are non-refundable. Uh those were $20 per reservation or $150 for the season. And again, we saw uh a number of groups, if it's Lake Elmo baseball or fall ball clubs utilizing that. But again, those light fees that we obtain from that aren't fulfilling what our expenses are for that. So, um, and finally, our courts, our courts don't have, um, our courts were $50 a day or $500 per season. Um, again, refundable to those clubs that would utilize those. So, again, no money gain really from there. uh as we never really saw a loss from receiving those courts or damage or anything on that matter. So, um we didn't foresee any changes in our priorities uh our one through four priorities. First, the city of Lake Elmo uh the affiliated school districts, the uh the adult youth athletic or civic organizations, and the fourth one being a non-resident or resident group. So, the changes that were proposed were ballfield rentals. So, specifically to the VFW and Lions, mainly because of the lights being subject to be spent a spring and a sorry, a summer and a fall uh seasons. Those reservation cost would be $50 a day if they're individually or $500 per season. To be honest, we'd likely just probably see the $500 per season for a lot of those groups, unless it was offset from a a morning versus an evening having the field type situation. Um, again, non-refundable. Those field lights are subject to a non-refundable fee. Again, $20 per reservation or $250 for the season as well. Again, just to recoup some of those fees. Those other fields that are reservable. So, we do have Pebble Tablin that are reservable as well. Uh, we go back to just $50 per day and or $250 a season. So, about half the cost. We do see uh reservations for those fields. specifically probably where like your reed and uh pebble are most popular. Uh Lions Park shelter again um deposits those were kind of subject. We did keep some deposits on some situation just because of cleanup issues. But again, um, suggestion would be, uh, $25 a day, uh, $50 deposit, um, in conjunction with the fields if they're using it, if it's special event application, $50 a day with a $50 deposit. So again, you're always getting at least the minimum back on that. Uh, park shelter or pavilions, um, we looked at doing half and full-time days. That was just comparable what our communities around us were doing. um six hours, 12 hours, you know, $100 for a full day, but the $50 would be a half a day. Um making all of our p park shelters or pavilions uh reservable throughout the whole community and not just those parks that were um that are on our reservable list. So, we include Ivywood with that carriage station uh as long as as well as um uh Goose Lake that has one as well. So, Pebble Um, we didn't see a whole lot of reservations for those pavilions throughout the year. In my time here, I've probably seen half a dozen. So, uh, again, all refundable, but we do have those those cleanup expenses that do come along with it. You know, when you do have a birthday party or celebration of life or something there, I mean, we're still obligated to pick up the garbage on Monday, things like that. So, we still end up with those outstanding costs. So, um, keeping that security deposit does help pay for maybe some of those limited costs. Again, we're not here to make money on the situation, but at least pay for the obstacles that we do have there. If it's trash recepticles, the garbage cans, things like that, bags, etc. Power that goes to some of those pavilions in there as well. We do have power tab or sorry, Pebble and uh, Pebble Goose Lake doesn't have. Our last one was our courts conversation. Uh we talked about having reservable pickleball courts at Lions, Pebble, and Tablin. We recommend limiting the reservable courts to 50% at each site. So for example, Lions would have two of the four courts, right? Pebble would have three, Tableau would have two as well, uh with the remaining courts being open for open play. Individual courts can be reserved up to three hours for $20. So, an individual couple or group that would come in, they can reserve a court for uh for up to three hours for $20. Groups looking to reserve multiple courts can reserve uh all the reservable courts all at one time. Those costs would be about would be $100 per week for up to three hours reservation. So, a lot of times we are seeing those courts being reserved for for those clubs right away in the morning or in the evenings. So, uh, utilizing those times to assess those costs. Um, in the financial impacts, I did, uh, kind of go over some of those financials like through my conversation there, but just kind of our expenses that we do see over there. One of the things I didn't talk about was just like our mowing operations, you know, that's going to just be, you know, expected either, you know, whether or not we had the baseball field or the parks there, the city's going to mow it if it's internal or external for contracting that out. So, but uh but just again taking into consideration the resurfacing that we sus that we expect every five years of those courts um you know our lighting fees um etc. So with that um I'll open that up. I do have a recommended motion on there um unless we want to make any changes to that before we move forward. >> All right, let's start with questions right now. Questions from commissioners. If I could just add one more thing, we are uh the reservations do open up in January uh 2026, January 13th I think is kind of the hidden number out there, but we are going to a reservation online. So um through the new website, we do have a reservation process. So I did the the form that was attached to your your packet was a draft form and what would somebody would normally fill out by hand if they were to look at that. So, you know, what they would be requesting, the times they would be requesting it, you know, is it full season, out of season, um, or longer thing like that. So, but we will look to see that reservation being online and users can go right on there directly, submit it online and then be reviewed. So, >> okay, questions. >> So, um, I had a couple questions. So, back in the notes, we had talked about volleyball courts also being added. to the reservation and then um increasing the security deposit from 50 to 100. So I was just wondering about that >> the security deposit on volleyball courts being 50 to 100 or just >> I think that was in general. I don't know. I was looking back at the notes and there was a motion just says to increase the deposit amount to $100. and add the volleyball courts to the list of reservable amenities. No, that was the notes from June 16th. I can look back. Um, I do recall the volleyball courts, you know, mainly Lions. um being reservable because that's the one that's used the most. Yeah. >> Um we don't have a huge issue as far as like competition with that as far as you know doubling up or anything like that. We have one or two clubs that use that. Mainly they have specific nights that they use that Thursday for instance and I think a Saturday. >> Um but definitely can put that on there um if it's if it's requested. >> It made it into the minutes the volleyball part. >> Okay. >> And $100 too with an increased deposit to $100. >> So that might have been for the shelter and pavilion. I think that's what my notes had showed cuz that's a $50 deposit. So moving that to a hundred. >> It doesn't say >> it doesn't say in the minutes. Yeah. But that's >> only that you made the motion. >> So you remember all this stuff, right? So, we could add in the volleyball easily, right? >> Yep. I would just put that under courts. Um, >> I would just add that as a as a as a box item under courts. Um, >> what do you want to do about the hundred? shelters deposit to $100. I'm fine with that. It's not hard to change. If that's what our notes read, we should probably proceed. >> Well, it's got full days at $100 for the shelter. I don't know. So you kind of make it, but the notes weren't clear. >> Other questions? question about um I don't recall whether we discussed making the rates different for non-residents and whether you considered that or saw that in um kind of looking at what other cities do. >> Yeah. So we did see that like a lot of other communities do do a difference between um resident versus non-resident um in the conversation with that is like a lot of times our priorities are listed for resident first >> before non-resident. So if it's getting to them um >> I think the impression was is like why are we charging more for a service in our community for something if it's that if it's available and open we want we want it used right. Okay. So whether it's a 100 bucks or if we if we increase it to 200, they're probably not coming here. Like they'll go to one of our neighboring communities likely. >> Yeah. I you know, I guess I was looking at it more from the perspective of courts. $20 for three hours generally seems just from a general perspective seems really inexpensive to me. And I'm wondering if I'm I'm simply wondering I I guess I don't know um whether charging more since we do have space issues with pickle ball whether charging more for non-residents is something we should consider. That said, we're limiting the amount of reservations to 50%. So that would make a difference there too. So I'm talking out loud here or thinking out loud. >> Yeah. Yes. So, it' be hard to like I wouldn't know like based off of our mo most of our reservations for our courts right now are clubs, right? So, I wouldn't be able to separate those based off our reservations. Now, are they community or non-comm community members, right? You know, because we do like our clubs are from all over. I mean, they come from number Still Water, Oak Park Heights, everything is all combined with clubs, right? So, um I wouldn't be able to tell you like, oh, 50% of ours all come from community members, right? Um I would window. So, until you get down to the individual reservations, which this will will uh imply where you have that data and that information, you'll be able to tell that oh yeah, 90% of our reservations are coming from members outside of our community. >> I I guess that brings up a good point. So, if an organization is renting a court or whatever, I mean, we don't we don't know if what the makeup of that is, and that could be predominantly in theory non-residents. >> Yeah, correct. Yeah. Sophia could have a club that Yeah. She she lives in town, so she makes the reservation because she knows when it opens, right? But her people in her club could be from a number of of surrounding communities. >> It's like Lake Elmo baseball. They're from all over. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's kids from Woodberry >> predominantly from Lake Elmo but there are kids >> right I mean some communities do uh you know ask you to somehow prove that or because in general I think these rates are really low >> in general >> just to give you some perspective to rent a court at the high school for an hour is $20 this year just went up from 15 >> um and that's just for one hour and some of the um commercial places were 15 last year but I think they've gone up. They've upped their prices recently. Also, at the pack, um residents of the school district get a a cut rate and non-residents pay more. Plus, they can't make reservations until a later time so that residents get first dibs and at a reduced rate. Um, yeah, I guess Adam, one of my questions is on the form that you attached, and I guess if it's moving to an online system, maybe these are less relevant points, but I was thinking it might be good instead of just asking about the organization, if applicable, to have like a checkbox for these priorities and a definition of what a non-resident or a resident group might be and maybe it's 50% or you know just to help quantify that. >> Um and then I also noticed an inconsistency with the ball field reservation amount um with the the nonVFW in lines. It's listed as $20 per reservation. >> Yep. >> Um and I think it's $50 in this text one. So, I guess I'm just curious if you can which one you intended that to be. >> So, VFW and Lions is not in here. It's $50 per day or $500 for the season, right? Y >> those non-reservable ones or sorry, not Yeah. So, those other ones that would be your pebble table and read those are $20 per reservations or $250 for the season. >> Okay. So, the text should read two 20 >> correct. >> Okay. Um, >> oh yeah, >> I have a quick question on the ice rink. It briefly discusses the fee for the lights, but it doesn't actually go in depth if it's reservable, is it? >> Uh, ice rink, we do reserve. >> I have a couple questions. Um, so I'm assuming when it says reservations can be made for a week, are I'm assuming five days, seven days. >> Oh, it's a seven day week. >> It's a seven-day week. Okay. And then, um, Adam, you had made the comment about, you know, this in these in general, the fees aren't, we're not trying to make money. So, am I to assume then that there's no really any rental revenue expectations or is that as part of the budget that there's an expectation that we make x amount of dollars with all of our rentals whether it's courts or fields? >> Yeah, I guess we've never really talked to that in in general like what do we expect to make or like kind of have a a budget on you know like this is what we bring in, right? So yeah, we've never really gained an advantage off of rentals or any on that that assume like, hey, that will help pay for XYZ. >> Okay. >> Other questions? >> Yeah, I have a question. What if um the school district um well, they won't be walking next year, but it uses one of the the parks um during the school day to reserve it. Is there would they still have to pay? You know, they want to go to Lions Park to play ball and have a picnic on the last day of school. Would the school district be charged for that? That's normally a special event uh that they would do. Um they haven't in the past normally because midday no one's using it, right? So, right. Um if there's exemptions that we want to write in there, we definitely can do something like that. Um >> I just know that you know during that day when they do like field trip day or you know their end of the year season deal that normally they there's nothing >> but except for the lights everything's not a fee. It's just they get their money back, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So there's really no fees >> unless they're using the shelter shelter thing, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Shelter and the lights. Okay. >> And there's no reciprocity between the city and the school district. So if we would go and if the city would go and use a school district space, would we be charged? >> I guess we' never have. >> I'm guessing we probably would be. The other general thing is and it really come up in the work plan is I recommend that at least once a year if not every other year or whatever that we look reook at this plan because I think some of our answers and some of our position would change um over time. All right, that we might see more people from other cities using our facilities and things like that. So, I recommend that we look at this at a fair fairly frequent basis. >> Yeah. And I think that just along those lines, um I think that the reservation form if we can collect all of the information that would be helpful for us to re-evaluate this in the future, that would be super useful. Like I think it is really useful to um ask folks to specify the time. Um the priority level I think would be great information. Um I like that there's special attend or expected attendance on here. Like I think all of that information will be really valuable um to help us you know dial in a reservation policy the next go round >> and remembering there's no rule enforcement of this. >> Yeah. >> So don't want to make it too complex. So, you have listed in the highlighted area >> some corrections, right? >> Corrections with the volleyball, >> an exemption to the courts down here. We can add those volleyball courts as well. >> Like reservable pickle ball and volleyball courts. >> Yep. Still working on words. >> So I have another question just to clarify what's nonrefundable and what's refundable. So, I mean, from what's laid out here, um, I mean, the ballfield rental says it's non-refundable. Uh, the lights are non-refundable and that's it, I think. Oh, the ball field, all the ball field rentals, but then nothing else. >> Nothing else >> says it's non-refundable. Is that the intent or were we talking about I think we went back and forth on non-refundable the last time we talked. Yeah. So, Lionsport Pork Shelter, $50 deposit, non-refundable. We're keeping that. Like, we'd ask to keep that money because we're still going there afterwards to do, >> right, >> the general cleanup, right? So, >> park shelters and pavilion, just change that $100 security deposit. >> Um, in my in my suggestion would be at least $50 of that would be kept, >> you know, again, for the same purpose. uh the courts um non-refundable. So they submit that money for that week. >> Yeah. >> That's what helps pay for that those future endeavors of that those courts. >> Okay. So we probably need to specify that, right? Okay, other questions. >> Yeah, I have a question um on the fiscal impact >> and this was already brought up, but um I guess I'm just curious if this would increase the park revenue. um to offset regular m like that makes sense to me but if we're talking about resurfacing the courts that comes out of the capital improvement like budget and I don't think that it makes sense for hundreds of dollars to get funneled into that and then to like be expected to balance everything. And so I guess I'm just I'm hoping that we can have clarity on if this goes to a general fund. >> It does go to the general fund. So likely um so whether you whether you bill out a thousand or you know $3,000 that year or whatever it might be uh that'll go back on the general fund and so yeah when we do talk about CIP items and resurfacing and things like that >> that we're not going to get a couple hundred extra. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think you bring up a good point. Maybe moving forward with the operational costs if it'd be good to see what an average year is for that and then based on rental what we're charging for rentals, would we want to recoup 10% of that or 20% of that? That's why I asked kind of about the budget line item. Mhm. >> Um because we, you know, you're not going to recoup all of your operating costs, but then we might want to set a, you know, again, a percentage or a dollar amount, whether that's 10%, 50%. Yeah, those are definitely some stats or something or stats or statistics we can look at as putting that those numbers together for as we review this policy in year two, year three. Um, with that understanding like, hey, we got $10,000 worth of expenses on this this amenity alone, right, throughout the year, >> right? >> You know, with only $1,000 coming in, right? >> All right. Other questions? Great discussion. Other questions? Hearing no other questions, now comes to the point where we are looking for a motion relative to this. What are we going to recommend to the city council for changes? Do I hear a motion? I'll make a motion to recommend to see council the changes to the Lake Elmo reservation policy as presented by staff with these additional changes. >> I'll second that. >> All right. discussion on the motion. >> I think I'd like to see the court reservations increased probably doubled. I just to me $20 is is just really not in the line with what we'd expect for a three-hour rental. I and I don't have I haven't surveyed local entities to know local cities to know that, but it just it seems to me that um something like $40 for three hours is is very palatable in my mind. >> Want to make a motion for a different price? >> No, I just wanted to >> point it out. That's fine. >> I agree. I think over time I think these need to go up some. I think this would be a good topic to discuss with the city council next time we wrangle with them because again philosophically for years it's been kept very low. Okay. But maybe it's the time to move it somewhere else. So um I think that would be a good discussion to have with them. That's just my opinion. >> Any other thoughts on the motion? >> Yeah, I think it could be beneficial to look at the data first because if we're getting a ton of people trying to reserve at some times or just in general, it definitely want to raise it. But if the data comes in and says that there's very few people actually trying to reserve the courts, then there wouldn't be much use raising it. But if people are willing to reserve course, they're definitely willing to pay more than what a third of what they normally pay for. >> Yeah. >> Other comments on the motion. >> Um I think that the 50% reservable, I really like that for the courts. Um, I think that it'll be something that we'll want to keep tabs on on how that's working in the future because I could foresee maybe some conflict coming up um related to that or groups deciding not to reserve if they're only getting 50%. Um, so um I just want to highlight that that's something that I'm going to have my ears open for. I also like having reservations only on half of the courts. I think that opens up for families and other folks to use, you know, just one court. >> Direct response [music] to comments that have been made. So, yes. Is this something if we halfway through the summer and we realize that the price is either way low or way too high, is this something we can adjust midyear? I wouldn't but uh I just re I'd wait till the next year in order to do it because otherwise you have you know >> Yeah. My suggestion is it comes back basically this time every year and then we have several months before it's implemented but we'll have that data too. >> Right. >> So and we change some things here. We'll see how that goes. >> All right. questions on the motion? If not, are you ready to vote? All right. All in favor of the motion to approve the staff presented Lake Elmo reservation policy with changes relative to volleyball, relative to courts nonrefundability, clarifying that. the $100 security department for for [clears throat] deposit for park shelters or pavilions and the $20 per day on other ball fields. Those changes. All in favor of approving this say I. >> I opposed. Motion carries. Next, the work plan. So, I think I presented this work plan different every year I've did it. So, um I'm going to have it very similar to what I just did. I'm going to have it just adjustable. So, as we go through this, uh we'll make some changes. Um we'll bring that back again. Today's more of a discussion and you know, unless we think it's right on, but um make some changes to that. bring that back for a full review again in um in December to submit to city council for our right before our um our meeting in we had it last year in February but uh our workshop with city council to review this policy again. So >> might I suggest >> that we do as I think I think Pete pioneered this is go through section by section. >> Yeah. So, we'll take on a section, you'll talk about it, we'll make comments, we'll move on to the next section. How's that sound? >> Sounds good. All right. Or did you have anything else to to tee this up? >> Well, I'll just give a little bit of background. You know, every year we are entitled to make a work plan. Uh the parks commission is responsible for creating a work plan which encompies the list of projects, maintenance tasks, and objectives for the year. Uh we've put together the 2026 strategic work plan. Um and yes, we'll go through those uh section by section. Again, our goals uh for this work plan is one to ensure that our parks and trail systems are construction and m constructed and maintained. Number two is to provide recreational amenities that will attract more users to public lands as well as property taxes to the city. Three is to create a safe environmental um work or play place in all of our parks. And four to serve as a viewing body and to make up to make sure the open space character development is preserved in new developments. So uh first section planning project and development. The section addresses larger uh long-term pro uh park projects and funding opportunities. these projects can be carried out uh throughout the upcoming year. So with that um that first one, we've kind of always had this on here I think since I've um if I started working here, but again just review that uh Washington County Central Greenway Trail Plan and other uh county CIP projects near Lake Elmo. I did reach out to Connor with the Washington County and we do have him scheduled to come in February again just to um give us an update on current CIP projects uh that the county will will have but also give us an update again on where we sit with that greenway trail plan. Right. So uh I think last time he was in here two years ago he did discuss that it was put back in the CIP. So, um that was just so again just bringing him inviting him to this group uh just kind of keeps us in in line of their vision and expectations we might see forthcoming with that. Second one, review future neighborhood playground replacements and schedule priority. Uh this came up, you know, uh in our last few discussions with our [clears throat] playground replacements and our conversation with city council. City Council wants us to uh likely not put uh these playground sets in all these neighborhood parks and really prioritize what are community parks and maybe more address our new playground sets to those areas instead of every 26 every year it seems like for 26 playgrounds whenever we'd be replacing one. Can we minimize these down? So making that priority list um and scheduling those playground sets out accordingly um respectively. Third one would be um pave the dog park uh trail parking lot and trails. So this would be down at the old um fireh hall station where the and next to the dog park. So we do we are planning to repave the the public works parking lot there. So, it only makes sense to continue that over into the dog park and to initiate an a trail that goes from the the de dlatching area of the the animals out to the the green space. So, we're looking at and over to the the small dog park area. So, just be a small trail through there, but really generating there does is a lot of water that flows through that parking lot. are really guiding that water down into that um that culvert area so it's not pulling up right there where you unleash your dog. So um that was the intentions of that paving that area talked about last month was the Lion Park playground replacement. So uh that will proceed moving forward. We'll work with um Flagship uh of getting that reconstructed at Lions Park. Court resurfacing at Demacheville, Carriage and Tablin. This would be our courts that are already there. So Deontraville has a full court basketball court. Tablin's got a half a court and Carriage Station's got a full court. So currently right now two of those are one of Carriage Station is actually has a um a resurfacing or has a surface on it that's similar to like our pickle ball courts. Um, so what we'd be looking at is putting some type of sealer on the Dematraville Tablin site as well as updating the one at Carriage. So again, that is just a very similar, like I said, to our pickle ball courts. It's a it's a thin um layer that goes over the top that seals the asphalt, but also uh we can create lines on and whatever we'd like to do uh in accordance with that. So that's the purpose of that resurfacing. again just to re put another five more years on the life expectancy of those courts. So next one would be select locations and installations for a park pavilion. Again those have been a we have a five-year plan to put a park pavilion in five of our parks. So again um looking at our priorities of our parks uh making a selection and looking at what type of of a pavilion we like to have there. Uh the next one would be our Ridge Park playground replacement. Last couple months we've been kind of uh talking with community members in that area as our park ridge plan, right? Uh so this playground is uh scheduled to be replaced in 2026. So with a lot of those things coming together, finding out a location for that uh and fulfilling that obligation of that playground set. Tablin Park is also on review uh for replacement. Um with that park, we'd probably definitely wait for that schedule priority uh that we plan to put together for that one and really review that playground set in general again before we uh venture down that aisle of replacing that one. But definitely on our work plan for 2026. Next one, review and address pickle ball noise in the in Pebble Park. Uh this was this came up several months ago um before opening in the spring of 2026. I'd like to have a plan for that and likely implement that plan long before that. We do already have some prices together for um sound barrier as well as some fencing that would need to occur there. So um plan to bring that up here very quickly in order to address that pickball noise in the spring of 2026. And the final one was brought up last uh at our last meeting as well um but makes a whole lot of sense in our work plan our parks master plan is develop a lion's master plan right so really working with the uh our consultant putting together a plan uh not only community engagement but also uh with the uh the commission here as well to put together a master plan for that area so we know what to expect in the forthcoming years with that I'll turn it back over to you Hank or questions on >> questions from the commissioners on this portion planning and policy. Is this where we would add in the um reservation policy uh review policy, park use policy? Would you want to put it in this category or we can do it? >> Okay. Other things. >> One of the things that we very briefly in passing talked about was um and I think we talked about it because it was part of the >> Oh, never mind. That is what you're talking about right here. The park use code of code code of conduct is what I was going to try, but that's that's what you're talking about. Okay. Disregard. [laughter] >> I'm [snorts] I'm up to speed here. >> It's okay. >> Other comments. >> Can I just This is just a general comment, but it might be for the whole document. Do we ever, and since this is the first work plan um I'm going through, can we outline the 2025 and what what we accomplished and what we didn't? And is anything carrying through from the 2025 work plan? >> We could review the 2020. >> So, not that we have to do it now, but could we get a list of just what was it? what we completed from the 2025 and if there's anything that again >> should be moved forward or it just didn't timing didn't work out or >> yep >> it didn't make sense anymore or whatever I think that would just be helpful just to kind of track from here >> or just celebrate our successes >> right there was a lot I mean I did look at it and there was a lot of things that were done so and >> but I agree I think revisiting it is something that >> would be a helpful part of this process >> not necessarily tonight >> and it could just be last year's list with that >> updates. >> Yep. >> Other comments. >> This is minor. Can we change review and address pickle ball noises to review and mitigate? This is also minor but the next line has a typo in it. The master plan. >> Thank you. >> Oops. >> MIT I under pressure >> but it does matter >> being watched. It's so hard. [laughter] >> All right. Other comments on planning and policy? Do you have a priority level for that >> chairman >> for >> review on the park use policy? >> Uh yeah, I think it should be at least a two >> not a one. >> So Ridge Park that was what we discussed >> right >> recently. So that's that was didn't we kind of land on potentially another concept? So it just the way it's worded just sounds like playground replacement, you know, versus figuring out what we're going to >> Yeah. >> do there, >> like Ridge Park Plan. >> Yeah. I >> I think the thing is the playground is being replacement is driving everything. >> Yeah. So it just may Yeah. But it just makes it sound like it's just a playground replacement. You could add and say review master plan or >> and review master plan >> just to make sure something like that >> I think >> inclusive or whatever. >> You're saying that Ridge Park like Lions Park needs a master plan >> or is it just Ridge Park updates with a dash including playground replacement? >> Something broader or plan? Yeah, just plan. Ridge Park plan and >> got all that. So my my intention is to bring back Ridge Park uh concept plan yet in 2025 here because that was part of the 2025 plan. So is to bring that back just with a regular to review our concept plan. Right. So the playground is scheduled for 2026. I'm hoping with the review of that concept plan that we have an idea of where we want to >> because like you said like Hank said that playground is really driving that concept plan, right? Like >> wherever that goes that's where kind of where everything else kind of settles out uh in the years to come with that. So, um, if we want to change what else we want to do with that, I'm open to it. But I think by 2026, >> we'll be really looking at the playground is like our driver for that. That's all, you know, we wouldn't be looking at any more concept plans with that. >> Oh, okay. Because we'll have that done before that. Yeah. >> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. >> Okay. >> Other comments? And would review park use policy be annual or in progress depending on >> I right now this is an annual plan I would say right >> do it annually and we'll talk about it next year see how that works >> but I like where you're thinking I mean I think it's something that needs to be kind of looked at all the time. All right, moving on to maintenance and refurbishing. Uh, in this section, projects in this category are carried out by public works staff and do not necessarily rely on parks dedication money for funding and is based off the 2026 annual budget. Much of the maintenance of public works staff is daily operations along with weekly and monthly inspections and work that we generate with our engineering firm. Um, our parks needs assessment. Again, that is uh ongoing by park staff um of just our repair, you know, um what what's needed in in all of our parks throughout the city of just, you know, visually inspecting visually does it is it appealable, right? So, those that's what we're gathering from there. Does it need more benches? Doesn't need more trees. That's when that comes back to, you know, get those requests for trees, right? And so that's what creates that needs assessment as far as what's actually needed there. You know, our playground, we really use our inspector to like what is that playground's condition in, you know, does it need to be moved up or down on that uh replacement list of or future replacement list, right? So, doing a lot of things in that division. It could be uh scattered out a little bit, but um I think a lot of moving parts go in for that needs assessment throughout the year. Our asphalt trailer maintenance um inspections, our crack filling inspections um that is mainly done by our our contractor or our um engineering firm. Um we do have an internal um public works staff that goes around and does spring inspections, but when it comes down to like the years and ages of our trails that need crack filling, our engineering department does a lot of that of uh assessing those trails, how long they are measuring and going out to our contractor for crack filling. Our public works directly director does go out and get bids for the crack filling. But um like our like I said our our engineering firm does a lot of like the background work uh in order to get there first. So and again finally our playground and park inspections. Again that's done playground done by a certified playground inspector. Um our daily uh public work staff are doing inspections on a day-to-day operations of if it's raking ball fields or just uh park cleanup addressing um hazard areas, you know, um cuts um sharp areas on playground equipment, but also um on our wood structured items as well. >> Okay, questions on maintenance and refurbishing. So, I'm I don't know where this goes, but I'm going to just bring it up. We have not talked about it, but it was a high priority in the long-term plan, and that was just the whole snow removal on trails. And I mean, it was identified as a high priority, but we haven't discussed it at all. So, I'm going to bring it up just because it's going to be winter soon [laughter] and it may be too late. I don't know. But I I don't know where that fits in and at what point we're going to address that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, our public works director has worked in a number of workshops already with city council to address that issue. Okay. >> They've actually come up with a um a temporarily a temporary plan. It's not going to do all of them, but they've kind of like really scoping out what are the high use areas >> um and really trying to like how do we >> how do we identify high use areas? Is it based off population? Is it based off actual someone sending out their clicker, you know, counting people that use it? Um, so they are looking at those trails currently, but like I said, it was on a workshop, I believe, last month, but got moved again to December. Okay. So, that is currently in conversation. Probably not quite ready yet for us, but definitely in the background work uh being implemented. So, >> okay. >> So, that'll come back to this commission. >> Yeah, potentially. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, might not be a whole lot of say on the park side of it. Yeah, the trails are already there, right? City council just says, "Either plow, we're open." >> Oh, gotcha. Okay. >> One issue. So, >> yeah, I know. Okay. >> So, a lot of Yeah, a lot of moving parts come with that, too. Is just as far as equipment, >> man, labor, things like that that you know, this this committee probably would have a whole lot of on. >> Okay. >> Anything else on maintenance and refurbishment? Peter, >> no. I was just thinking about that the last subject we were just talking about. It the process to me is confusing that we wouldn't be included in that, especially since it was part of the MA parks master. I mean, you're Hank, you're not involved in that as part of a work plan or anything like that or work group rather. >> Not that I know of. Okay. Yeah. I I guess I Yeah, I'm that that confuses me, but that's not a conversation for now. So, I guess um to your point though, I don't It does seem like a worthwhile conversation. Whether it needs to go on this list or not, I guess I don't know. >> Yeah, I don't know. Well, the fact that we didn't know about it, I guess, right, is another question. Well, if it gets implemented, could we add to the work plan that we get an opportunity to >> I think we just >> review or >> I think we make the comment I think we make the comment that you have several people who would like to help determine that policy under our provision of trail interconnection. Well, if it's plowed, then it's more interconnected. So, I think we have a role in that. uh but maybe not an approval role but maybe an input role. So >> there's my input, there's our input to whoever is driving this, your boss discussion or whatever. Okay. Anything else on maintenance and refurbishing? Okay. Additional park incentives. So uh in this um category establishes goals and ways in which staff and the commission can increase the use of uh city parks and promote community engagement, launch new and creative ways to reach park users and gain insight on future needs. So again uh we will hold that joint um workshop with city council. Um we're going over a couple dates right now. We were talking about before the meeting, but last year we held that in February. So you can kind of expect that to be held again um third Wednesday in February in that area. So um firm date to forthcoming on that. So we've talked about in the last couple years already is the plan for that multisport complex and uh in that park land use of that newly purchased area. So, um, as that moves forward, I think maybe some of us already are on some committees or some just discussion groups in regards to future plans of that. But, um, those hopefully those plans will come back to the commission just for either updates or, um, even quicker responses on, um, you know, potential community engagement aspects. As always, we always have uh, park tree planting in there. I know that's been a conversation with the parks commission over the last few years, but um just looking for additional and new ways to uh continue to implement tree planting in our parks. So, you know, we do it in a lot of our construction areas or when we're doing construction um projects, but how else can we implement that if it's just additional funding or um you know, just you know, donations, however that might be to implement those in our parks to uh continue that shade structure throughout and that you know that that that huge diversity that's available out there for uh trees in our parks. Uh last one we did have a speaker last month as well is just uh continue to update the parks commission on the buckthorn removal process and at the salmon zero center nature center and sunfish lake park. So again providing updates as well as you know uh city staff um monitoring that and um making sure we have a clear concise you know direction of what we what we'd like to see there in the upcoming years. And the last one, uh, add Schilkins Parks, uh, to the ski grant application. So, that's, uh, kind of done internally by, uh, um, staff as far as adding that. We do have a number of our parks on there already, but, adding that to that does, uh, bring back some money to the general fund, uh, for our general maintenance of that. But, um, actually just adds it to a larger list of, uh, parks and ski available areas in, um, Minnesota. So, that's where that comes from. That's for grooming, right? >> Grooming, correct? >> Are you thinking that would be accessible only from the lake level or from where the park entrance is? >> Yeah. Um per you could uh gain it from uh the top side either if you're coming from Lake Elmo, you know, across the south side of that park, you know, [clears throat] across the the future of that or along the back side of the of the homes as well. Um, I would suggest that you be pretty advanced if you're going to go down to the lower part of that, but we do have hills that in other parks that are not as steep, but do have steep inclines as well. >> So, okay. >> Is uh so you're currently working on the Schul and is there [clears throat] anything to include on that as an initiative? Do we have more work to do outside of ski grant applications? Uh the only thing uh would that would be left to that uh park is after that second phase is completed is to uh finish putting in our benches on that second phase as well as our kiosk on that side as well. >> Okay. Again, can you remind me the the surface is going to be like wood chip walking surface nature trail. So it's just very similar to what Sunfish Lake is like, right? Okay. So, mode >> maybe not mode is just a Yeah, just be a dirt trail or a grass trail. >> And you would anticipate people skiing or or parking up top? There isn't a There isn't parking. >> Just street parking. >> They could ski to the park. [clears throat] >> Yeah. I I can't envision that how that would work. And maybe that's for future discussion as part but it sounds like you're you're looking for a skir grant app application. It sounds like that's already planned. Something I wasn't I guess aware of or I'm forgetting um that we were doing that. I don't see how you get skiers to Shilken Park. >> So we've been in as part of the um the DNR ski grant. We've been part of that for like six years, right? So, we're just adding the mileage of this park to that ski grant, right? So, that we'd include it in on our grooming grooming applications throughout the winter. >> Uh that'll help improve people's ability to walk on it as well as >> I know we we've had uh in the past we had some work on uh invasive species policy. Is that something we should include on this continued initiative? I think maybe we slowed down with it, but is it worth still continuing? I guess I'm asking other commissioners more than saying it should be. >> Yeah, I think that would be good. Um, I think it could nest under the overseeing efforts of buckthorn removal as well >> because we really got in many parks. >> Well, and that's kind that's where I Yeah. I mean it's s what Sally and Monsara that nature center has done is very very spectacular. On a smaller level we certainly could start tackling some of this but um just got to work in small pieces I think >> right or a plan just a plan I you know develop a plan for that. The other thing I didn't notice on here at all was so we had it we had a discussion with the council about a potential park manager or director. I think they had some they had feedback to us. I don't know exactly where that's at, but is that continued on our work plan to to work on that or what's the status of that? So, um, our public works director, uh, currently the position for that is open and they're actually po they posted for that here about, uh, a week ago. So, the parks position is probably like on lower priority right now. they'd like to implement that public works director first, get a bigger scope of what they feel is needed, maybe bring in some different ideas, whatever it might be, um to actually implement where that position lies. Does it lie as a as a parks director? Does it lie as a project manager for parks? Uh where where actually that lies? So, um, you know, on as far as like, um, you know, as far as the parks work plan, would we as a commission have a whole lot more involved than on it? I don't believe so. It's going to be hired by the city. Um, we've given our input. It's out there. It's been suggested. It's been recommended. It's been, you know, um, number one priority. It's out there. It's listed on the list. Um, now it's up to where that lies as far as the director, the city administrator of where we can implement that. Now, that cost. >> Yeah, that wasn't clear. They they said they were going to come up with the job description and the level and all that stuff. And then they kind of blended into the HR part of this >> and it didn't sound like it was necessarily going to come back to us to look at that job description and how it fits into the organization. So, that seems to be where it was left, but it's good that you clarify that it's kind of on hold until they fill the director's position. >> Other questions? >> Um, I have a question on the multisport complex and park land use. To me, it seems like this is a real need for a higher touch like intervention or or like you know collaboration, not necessarily intervention. And I'm just hoping that there might be a way to capture that or to like signal that. Yeah, maybe I'll ask Sophia if you could add any information you can, but uh I know the their department's working on where it lies out fiscally, you know, uh and I think we kind of already missed our boat as far as when to bring it to voting for the citizens. So, there's only certain years you can bring back that referendum, right? So, >> um so I think we've already missed our potential vote and I went to city council and they said, "Hey, let's not just, you know, go rushing into it, right? Let's do some things on the back side first." And so we've missed that part of it, right? So we are looking at that next one that might be two years out, >> 2028. >> Um, so I know community development is working on kind of setting a plan for community engagement and what we want to see there. So what I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to have Jason, our community development director, meet with the parks commission and kind of give you guys an update on where we're at with that and where what the plans are for 2026. Um, but I'm not sure about the adding it to the ballot. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, I think that's a good idea. And what our involvement should be or could be or needs to be. >> Yeah. I guess to that to that end, I have I I don't know if anybody else feels this way, but I felt well out of the process for this complex. I was when we had the meeting about it, the the price tag that was on it, I had just no concept in my mind that's what we were talking about. And I felt like I missed a whole section of a conversation. Uh, so to the end of working, you know, for this line item to plan for a multiport sport complex, I don't I I don't feel like I'm part of a conversation that I would be planning. I I guess I kind of it it feels the same as with the park manager or park director that we've provided input. Uh, it seems that council is more or less planning this. That's my So I guess the reason I say that is because I don't know to what end we are doing PL why this is on our list what planning we would be doing >> unless we are >> right I think we should >> yeah I feel the same way >> is there specific I guess could you say Adam do you know to what part parts of this we would be involved in planning for this complex. >> Um, no, I think um, you know, if they're going to um to the community engagement part of it, it's actually bringing those items back, right? To say, how does that lie with our parks our park's master plan? Are we implementing the amenities that we addressed in there? Right? Is it, you know, because we've already talked about maybe we do we make our pickle ball courts there, you know, versus other places. And I think those are the conversations that come back to here to say, >> you know, are we fulfilling what we need for uh baseball based off our previous conversations, pickle ball, you know, what other amenities have we heard from our community members that need to be implemented in there that weren't addressed in the community survey or do you think that it's important to address in now uh so that is implemented in there in the future? >> I mean, there's >> Go ahead. I was that is such a great point, Adam, about how I feel like if we're um if like as we're not if we're not kept up to date with how that is going, it kind of hampers our ability to act on other items, right? like why would we be discussing about reviewing addressing pickle noise pickle ball noise at Pebble Park if what we're hearing on the needs assess or if what the community is responding to in this needs assessment is hey you need to move pickle ball you know we just aren't able to um react to that information if we don't have it and so yeah I guess I I feel like that particular item needs to be more fully integrated into a lot of um updates that were given uh whether or not our specific feedback is being asked for as a commission. Um but it just feels really important in order to help us be planful and to make good decisions. I guess I would go so far as not just feedback, but we should be part of the process of how they determine the process of if it's community engagement, we should know when those are. Would we want to participate in those as a commission? I think to your point, Ellen, it's just getting the the the feedback without having kind of the the path that's gotten there is extremely difficult. Okay. Uh invasive species uh priority three, two, >> three, >> three, >> three. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Anything else on additional park initiatives? If not, finance. Uh yes, last one being finance. Um again the parks commission uh would be looking at their budget on a yearly basis and our recreational funds. Both those are addressed in there as um making the capital improvement plan for 2027 as well as you know public work or sorry public staff uh providing budget updates throughout the year. um as needed where we are on our on our park funds and where we're at um on our what am I looking for? Um yeah, our budget for our parks. Sorry. >> CIP questions about finance. Pretty straightforward. Okay. Anything else? Just step back for a minute. Anything else you think we're missing? >> And your plan right now is to bring that back in December, right? >> If you feel the need, we could bring it back in December, but otherwise, we can add these and move forward. It does say looking for a motion. >> So, we're either looking for a motion or if it's too much, bring it back. What do you think? Silence is not the answer. I move to recommend the 2026 parks commission work plan to the city council with the amendments we did the additions. Do I need to name them all right now? >> No. >> Okay. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll I'll second. >> Thank you. All right. discussions on the motion. >> I would just ask that we if we if we can get the 2025 list of accomplishments and for our December meeting. >> Yep. You got that >> slide for accomplishments. Good December topics. Any other um discussion about the motion? Hearing none, we will take a vote. All in favor of recommending to the city council the 2026 park commission work plan with the highlighted changes that are no longer shown to me but that are [clears throat] aware to all of us. All in favor say I. >> I opposed. It passes and you will have a slide next month. >> Yeah. >> With those >> accomplishments. >> Yeah. >> All right. Next is communication and updates. Um, public works staff is currently working on the ice rink for 2026 20 or sorry 25 26. Uh, we will be adding that pleasure rink along the south side of our current ice rink. That'll be in the volleyball courts. We've already moved those volleyball nets. We're placing um a thin liner on the sand there to hold the water, but we'll have a pleasure rink there for additional uh ice skating up there as well. So, um, so you'll see some action going on there as far as for public works staff, uh, making those corrections with that. As noted before, we have done some, uh, uh, some updates in the Shokens Park. Those included adding our benches, our tables, as well as our kiosk as well in that set in that first session. So, um, that's all I have >> just for Peter. You know, I walked over there. You go over to 37th Street, go to the end. The sign's there. It's a paved entrance. Gets a little tricky because the Kings Bridge Trail Road has parking only on one side. >> So, you have to be careful of where you park there. So, it is a trick to get there. But I think it will be helped because according to the drawing, the the trail does go um on the south side behind those houses, right? And the retention pond there to at least connect in with the one that goes to Lake Elmo, right? >> Correct. Yeah. So, um if [clears throat] you're traveling from north to south behind the homes, it does go around that retention pond almost all the way out to Highway 14. um that's going to be a future extension or a stub that potentially could cross there if you know if the county would allow right to go to any future development on the south side of that road. But it does go around that storm water pond and does go back all the way to the east to the asphalt trail along Lake MI. >> And is there a a northern entrance? >> Yes, there after phase two is completed, there will be a northern entrance into the park. >> Yeah. Yeah, if you haven't been out there, I encourage you to get out there and be careful. >> Unparking Reed Parking lot looks awesome. Job planting trees there and getting that crosswalk done. See it used all the time. >> Good. Anything else? Hearing none, it is time to journ. So, the parks commission meeting for November 17th is adjourned.