you which one storytellers yeah doesn't billy keep some cars right next to your place there that's his primary sales well i thought yeah but then he has lucky's garage as well yeah i think by state statute if you're going to be in the car business you have to also have a service center yes yes all right i'd like to call the lakeland shore city council meeting of march 4th 2021 6 41 uh to order kim would you mind taking roll call here wilson here council member here council member here mayor here if you join us for the pledge of allegiance i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states [Music] would somebody be willing to make a motion to adopt the agenda please i will make a motion to adopt the agenda is there a second i second the motion any discussion i'll call for a vote all those in favor of adopting the agenda signified by the sign of i i any oppose motion carries we have two items on the consent agenda this evening item a let's handle them one at a time well i guess we won't because it's consent agenda we can handle them cumulatively item a has approved the monthly claims and item b is approving the january 7th 2021 city council meeting minutes i would actually make a motion that we approve the consent agenda is there a second i will second any discussion comments i'll call for a vote all those in favor signify by the sign of i i i in the pose i was an eye motion carries public comments do we we have nobody present were there any written public comments no all right we'll move on to unfinished and new business item a is consideration of tri-county plowing contract extension is there a discussion or kim i'll just let you know that um the rogue commissioner john bishop let you know that the uh contracts were coming up for renewal in mayo in may um and he wanted to just get this taken care of so i did contact um tri county and tried to get a new contract from them which was not easy but um i did get the pricing so i redid the contract they didn't have it in a word um document it was 95 per hour for all your following services it's this three year term would be 115. um that three year term previously for 95. uh an hour that was um that's been in place for three years there were no increases so this would be the first increase in three years and it would be good for three years at 115 per hour do we have any guesstimate of what that equates to on a on an annual basis for an increase i mean 95 to 115 is you know it's 20 or 18 percent pretty good yeah pretty good jump that would be a six percent annual increase uh i didn't check with simon worth as to what lakeland's paying them um uh i talked to him about it last night yeah yeah he did we did talk about uh uh someone else in the valley of what's their name the pit over there or not uh miller miller i think they were at 140 or 140 an hour yeah i mean i'm not i i think i think it's beneficial for us to use the same people that lakeland uses and certainly beneficial for tri county as well and um i just it's an increase but it's you know it's i think i don't think they abuse their hourly rate put it that way i think it's a good rate to get i don't think we'll get anybody cheaper we may be able to get somebody that's just a little bit better but um you know as far i mean i have to call them to you know make sure they salt things when things get out of control but beyond that i think generally speaking they do a good job and i think since it's good for another three years that we ought to accept that contract i assume that the street sweeping was a separate contract yes there's two contracts and is that one going to be the same price so um you know you look at the basic services that we provide fire and police we contract both of those police contracts washington county fire is part of our joint powers agreement um snow plowing is the next thing that we hear the most about and you know as we've grown to learn no one's ever happy with the snow plowing sometimes they have some legitimate concerns or comments other times it's just seems to be venting a little bit with that said um we had the one event this year that was really a tricky event uh the way that that it occurred and when it occurred started as rain turned to slush and then it snowed on top of it and it froze and that broke it's hard so you know there's nothing the contractor can necessarily do about that but but one thing that i have heard that i think we could talk to them about is kind of a overall strategy for how they're plowing the valley that they're doing primary arteries first throughout all cities and then working their way in whatever order they want to from there but i do think that it's at least worth having a discussion so that when we get those calls we can say listen this street is considered an artery and it's done first and then you know the other streets are are gone through as time permits but i i do think we could probably focus on a couple arterial roads absolutely and i have our own stone emergency routes i had i don't know maybe i talked to john about that but years ago well i had talked to matt and then with the kids on the buses in the morning i'd say if they could get they come in by the school come down quinlan and out division that's their path right and then they'd open up they go second street north go down there go down that way open that up i would say those should be our fourth street in uh division with quinlan yeah is that what you're saying go up force yeah fourth street go north on quinlan and then out division right because that would that was clear you know that would give the majority of people and then second street all the way i would think down to quinlan probably down to eight yeah would be because that's the bus route but that's for lakeland to decide but yeah second street as it impacts us so if we could have that discussion i think that would be i can talk to ben about that but i and i don't know with ben and i talked to simon a little about that last night i said and i don't know i know they're located down there but if he could get somebody located up here you know where they it seems like they worked their way up here if they got well that's my house is 6 30 in the morning so you know and maybe they're using different equipment right okay because our road's so narrow but you know uh they're up here with some piece of equipment anyhow and then the other thing is and i think they got a fix or whatever their sand spreader or whatever make sure you got one that can hit the whole actually broadcast yeah i sent it to a friend of mine at the county and i just took a picture down my street i said hey this is leading technology the county better get on this well you know despite i'm sure there's a lot of pent up anger out there but nobody ever contacts me i this year i did not get one call you should get one up on first street but i didn't get any of this you're just guaranteed a record but i fall in march right john i think i would have got it the other day but i saw him from years ago and he went and he turned the corner and i heard him turn around walking and he saw me out washing my truck and i saw him out of the corner of my hand and just bolted yeah but you know truly i mean one of the things i try to if somebody really complained to me yeah i one of the things i try to get across to them is we all live within one mile of county road 18 yeah you know i mean probably most of us within two tenths of a mile yeah you know and you know at 10 miles an hour i had it all figured out my head one day when i was walking you know it might take you three and a half minutes you know if you were doing 10 instead of 20. so i i really appreciate the fact that nobody ever calls okay and i want to get this in because i've been thinking about it all week after that snow storm i did think about going to cancun okay but i i decided not to anyhow um that was a mess and i think it could have been i think it could have been done better okay after that storm i mean it it lingered too long where it was just a sheet of ice yeah okay and um well that's because the conda the county was closed the next day that's right they were closed on monday that monday so they couldn't get access to salt so that was what did you get that said trucks are already loaded with salt i mean that refills yeah i don't know well so i think there's a consensus here would somebody like to make a motion for the approval of item a i'll make a motion to approve the contract for tri-county uh plowing contract three-year extension at the new rate yep is there a second no second any additional discussion american council members i just want to know it's a three-year company right three years yeah yeah okay okay oh maybe um now you have me questioning myself because i didn't hear that but the clarification's there that it's through here so uh with that said i'll call this right i'll call the question uh all those in favor please signify by the sign of i i i'm opposed motion carries item b is the consideration of tri-county street sweeping contracts imagine that's contract oh yeah extension direct extension um same thing as your plowing contract the pricing was updated just a little bit the street sweeping is 100 which includes the labor john do you remember what it was on the last one yeah it got the i think it was uh it was uh street sweeper was 72 dump truck was 72. okay and again this is for a year contract um john did want included um pricing on uh taking a tree down if necessary yeah i mean just in general if we wanted you know to use them for something like that what would be the hourly rate and that's included on here that does not mean you have to call them and utilize them but that pricing the skid loader the dump the wood chipper that's listed out in case you ever have to and that's how much per hour well it depends on what it is okay it just sounds rather primitive but so um and then who's determining how often the streets are swept or when they're swept is that just generally once a year we're doing that yeah as far as i know it's just in the spring yeah we just do it when they team up to do lakeland they do it the same day or same time and okay we approve the consideration of tri-county street sweeping contract extension is there a second i'll second it any discussion call for a vote all those in favor signify by the sign of i i any opposed motion carries item c consideration of bid for 2021 rejuvenator project i think the bottom line is the new road uh fourth street correct correct that we're uh looking to do that rejuvenator uh technique looks like they're spreading sand over the top of it but it extends the life of our of our roads that we just paid to have installed the one exception to this is the material that's used to delineate the crosswalk is pretty expensive um we asked john john and john talked about it and john did his best to get that number down i think he was able to cut it about 25 yeah but we've come to a different conclusion on it what do you got uh we're not going to have it done at all as far as they're they're not going to go over the existing they're going to stop and if we want them to they will hand do between the stripes you know okay um i don't think sure that's necessary okay but it's you know the problem according to our engineer is is that whoever we have do this striping which is just a crosswalk there from the playground to the soccer field across the way um it's just a one-shot deal for them you know they have to come all the way up to wherever they're coming from so did they is that one recessed what did they didn't grind it down and do that one did they no it was put on top of the new road yeah okay so john are you just saying that really then what we're approving as the 2871 dollars and 18 cents yeah i was just doing the math here here we're looking at this summary page so we're eliminating the 36.85 yes yeah we are i think in years past i just got a roller and some paint and did it yeah no and i i mean i'm reluctant to just get out there with the latex i'd buy from hirschfield's but uh you know it seems to me that one of us could figure out how to get it from dave porter or somebody that's i got it i got it the striping paint i want to say i got it from sherwin there have been some changes to that and that was part of the change so um i'm going to make a motion that we approve the bid for 2021 rejuvenator project um for the total reclamate at and 2871.18 cents uh and thereby eliminating the striping portion of the bid so the total approved amount not to exceed 2871.18 is there a second i'll say no second any more discussion doesn't sound like a lot of money but it all adds up at the end of the day you know three thousand dollars in our budget is two percent so it's important i'll call the question all those in favor signify by the sign of i all right hi hi gentlemen hi oh i didn't hear you okay um any nays motion carries consideration of 2021 2022 street improvement projects anyone want to take the lead on that i guess i can give a little narrative um we've been able to accumulate you know a fair amount of money in our street improvement fund i think it's in excess of 450 000 now john between 450 and 500 000 and as we know nothing's getting any cheaper um so we were hoping that the the bidding climate might be attractive especially if we look at you know trying to take on several of these at the same time so i think the idea here is that we would go out to bid and then decide if we want to go ahead and make the expenditure or not but until we know what the costs are it's difficult to make a decision yeah i think the one thing i got out of my conversation and i thank john for you know presenting us with the type of memorandum that he did which is pretty much self-explanatory um obviously we're going to have to make some choices between what type of you know whether we do the mill overlay or the pulverize and pave you know uh mill over leg was what we did on 4th street uh what we did on cornell a couple years back was the pulverize and pave okay um the one thing i got that he wanted from us was exactly not exactly but approximately what it is that we were thinking of spending in general okay in other words if we have let's just say 500 000 in the in the bank for roads uh are we considering spending you know 300 000 or you know in other words i'm always reluctant to say well geez let's spend all 500 but then what do we do with quinlan you know or or are these the right roads to be doing in the first place and let me preface it this a little bit in that john and i and anybody else from the council that wants to uh sometime after these to the streets and sweep them uh are gonna walk first and second as well as um whatever other ones he's got here and um and you know just kind of get a feel for the what they're what they're looking like and what it is that he thinks and needs to be done i i think some of that's determined by once they get and do the core sampling and that type of thing but um the one thing he wanted me to bring back to him from this meeting was an approximation of of what kind of money we thought we were going to be spending here okay uh obviously we don't know but you know a ballpark figure of you know two hundred thousand you know 250 if i got it i think i want to say i think quinlan could be was 19.99 i forgot to bring my big sheet on it there's that right here was that in 99 or was that 2 000 um and lakeland shores road i think we did them like a year apart or were they the same year they put shores road especially the uh southern half of it yeah really starting to i mean i'm more non-past quinlan was uh last year paved was 2001. okay and we just and i think that was just a mill an overlay could be likely i would argue if we can get if if a million overlay is um if it'll work that it's obviously the less expensive and and just as efficient because we've got 20 years you know got 20 years and i know you get 20 years ago overlay that's pretty impressive when i asked him that question a couple days ago he indicated i said would he get 10 years out of it he said no more like 10 to 15 is what he said yeah so we've gotten 20 because it i mean i'm more opt if we get good numbers i'm like throw quinlan in there throw if division is bad or division court down at the cul-de-sac is bad i know there's some pits in there but they're not on the list just to be clear oh i know i'm just saying so what we're talking about here is going out for bid on these specific roads kim mayor council members i will note that again john did a really good job of laying this out if you were to do the project scope that included the four of those streets uh segments that are he listed out here it would be a total of approximately 152 000 right i think what uh council member bishop is asking is the city comfortable with that amount are you looking to spend a lot more um if 152 seems kind of in your ballpark i would you know recommend that you get bids on on those roads i'm yeah i'm i'm more opt to well unlike lake afton i don't know how many years ago they ran into it but they they put out bids and it came in half the price so they did a bunch they did as much as they could yeah we could always add after and that's what i'm saying if we get some good numbers well does john recommend a mill an overlay or a pulverizer well he appears to here if you look at what's shaded yeah three of them it looks like he's recommending a mill overlay um third street north from quinnell to coyote it looks like he's recommending a pulverizing pave i think one of the things that at least my conversations with the mayor you know was kind of like you know let's get started on this let's get the core borings done that type of stuff so that we're ready to act we don't necessarily have to do it this year because they're not actually scheduled to be done this year right but you know we at least we're ready if you know the price is right and we're ready then we can do it um one of the things that's not taken into account here and the reason he didn't do it was lakeland shores road he you know kim's figure that of 152 000 doesn't include anything for lakeland shores road it does a section of it the southern section yeah it does so exactly yes yeah but i yeah but he didn't make a choice as to what what we should do there well i'm assuming john and maybe i'm wrong but where it's shaded right that that's his so if you if you took those four that are shaded that's 152 000 okay i was just looking at the top line there i guess i'm sorry um so third street north half of that is lakeland so we'd have to see if they'd want to do half of that street well you know where the pillars are tim you know they're right at 125 where tom scanlan lives he's talking about third straight okay so we'd have to see if they were on board with paying half where's third street fourth place huh my place yeah of lakeland shores because the city that the center of the road is because we years ago when we did a crack seal we did it all we did the whole city so i think there's two questions in front of us tonight that's a good point that we'll have to communicate with later about but um um i guess we're deciding tonight if we want to go out for a proposal oh i i definitely think we should and i and like miss john said i think we should uh the ones that are in need get them if we're going to send somebody up to sample them if they're maybe two three years out like say you know look at the ones that we're doing get those sampled and even quinlan maybe division i don't know and then we'll have to do that as a second as a second three right if we get good numbers because what we're talking about tonight is pretty specific correct so do we want to go out for a bid on this and then the second piece is because you see the variable here if we did full replacement it's 443 000. i can tell you i'm not comfortable spending no that much of our budget but i i'm relatively comfortable between 150 and 250 if we get some real bang for our buck um i mean there's no point saving this money if we're not actually going to implement it you know for its purpose so if we can if now is a good strategic time to to implement these projects and we're getting a good value i'm comfortable going spending as much as 250 000 personally i'd like to see it between 150 and 250. and to tim's point if the numbers come back really favorable and we're getting this amount of work done for 120 then i think we could and should look at adding a couple of other road segments yeah right and you know it makes a certain amount of sense if you're butting into quinlan okay right first and second street that type of thing you know to maybe do that but quinlan's a long street right you can only assume that it's going to be fairly expensive it would probably well lakeland shores road is almost the same yeah i guess you guys are narrow this is longer wider quite a bit narrower yeah contemplating just you know maybe just doing the southern part of it yeah okay the wider part from oh not the ball okay from cornell up to the pillars there is in fairly good shape yeah it may not make sense to split it okay right but um one one section of it the narrow section of it is in pretty tough shape well are they are they going to do any drainage improvements or widen the road anything you're just going to replace what's existing well they they adjust at the height and they put the crown on it and that right but there's no new ditch uh contemplated or nothing to that effect if you're aware of a problem area then we can certainly circle that on the map and have the engineer look at that but we're we're open ditch drainage and i'm really not aware of any problem areas i know years ago we talked about some corners where they intersect on quinlan and first and second and whatever may be putting a curve but i don't know if it kim has a kind feasible council members i was just going to point out based on what the city engineer is recommending you know which type project for each of these uh four street segments and based on your comment about what you're comfortable with that's project cost that is not going to include the city engineer um he has indicated that he needs to go out and get surveys the soil borings this that and the other that's going to put you up where where you might get a little bit past your comfort zone um i would recommend getting bids for these four street segments and then i just also wanted to point out i'd like to get them for all five for all five okay and then i'll point out too that the bids aren't going to last forever yeah you know you may decide not to do anything right and you thinking you might do it next year or the year later you're going to have to get bids again right so if we don't move forward the first step is just getting the bids because right now tim are you thinking of a particular area that has a drainage issue well well no kind of outside of that but um yeah i i was just i i think it's well i don't know what how much perv you know how what yeah i guess if there's no problem there's no problem yeah but if we were if we could do something that would do something with the water maybe get fundings from some other place that would help pay for that you mean like a grant or something yeah if if you had any underground storage of water if but if it's not a problem it's not a problem i'm not aware of any drainage issues i will note again american council members honestly truly i'm familiar with roads that do have some drainage problems and you would know it because it eats away at that asphalt yeah no we got it also can get potential frost boils you would know that when those come up so and the pavement spiders yep yeah and and john the city engineer would be looking at that that would be part of the the project scope if in fact there is a problem when we just finished our 10-year comprehensive plan one of the requirements in there is a drainage plan drainage study that we had updated so i don't know if you have a copy of that mark mark helped facilitate that with the wmo and oh that's on the city's website yeah okay so if you want to take a peek at that but we did just recently update that plan i think we have one rain garden and two storm sewers down by me but they're they're fine they dump out into when you say five which i mean there's two segments on so both segments on uh lakeland shores and the other three so everything that he has listed and i'd like him i'd like him to receive the bid for both the mill overlay and the for each segment yes yeah except he's gonna probably determine which is necessary i mean i'm not sure you're gonna ask for a bit if you're not gonna if you're not gonna do the pulverizing pave if you i mean we don't know if we're going to do it until we know what it costs no but the general cost of it is is significantly more right you know than the other and there's a reason probably because you've got a double the lifespan of the of how long it's going to last but for example john um third street you know it's 11 000 versus 30 000. if the bid came back 11 000 versus 22 000 it's going to change my opinion sure yep so that's why i'm thinking if we can let's get the bid for both options so that we can make the final decision and i'll just point out too that i believe like you do the highlighted areas are what the city engineers remem recommending the fix be yeah um and i will just then add that getting bits for both and that's absolutely fine that is more administrative more time more cost of the project so let's uh let's think about how we can um i'd like to make a motion that we authorize our streets commissioner to work with our consulting engineer to determine going out for bid on these five street segments if it's appropriate to do proposals for both mill and overlay and pulverize and pave options or if we should seek specific proposals based on the engineer's recommendation that would be my motion is there a second so we're going to get the bids it'll be determined by the engineer he he actually puts together a bid packet and then they put it out to the market yep and everybody uh that's interested makes their proposal he'll give us a summary of what those bids are and then it comes back to us to either approve it or not approve it so we'll take another swipe at this in may to decide if we're spending the money all right i guess i would want well i guess on that also we'd have to let them know like on third street if lakeland doesn't then that might adjust the price of the bid but that gets pulled out that third street north but well we'll still get the numbers yeah we can but i mean if we don't do that then they might have to adjust their bid or john would well they do it accordingly well i think it's going to be clear that clear to these vendors it's not an all or nothing we're going to pick and choose what we move forward with and generally speaking they and they may put that in their bid pack right that if you do all of it it's this number if you only do two segments it's this yeah so that's why i like more of the bang for the buck was there a second to the motion no no no i second the motion everybody comfortable with that i think it's the right approach i mean we've got yeah we've been saving the money i think it's time to implement so i'll call the question all those in favor of the motion signified by the sign of the eye hi any opposed motion carries city clerk report uh mayor council members all i have to update you with is the spring uh cleanup day it has been set with lake central beach and the city of lakeland as you have done in the past it is scheduled for saturday may 1st and tim just for your info i've got some flyers for you um very very successful there the parking lot is packed people waiting to drive in and is that eight to noon it is eight til noon all right and lakeland shores is part of it yeah because sometimes we are sometimes we're not well you are part of it we've had two have been for the last two years yeah the last two years two years and for the record for the last two years we're the only city that has a hundred percent attendance by its council members because we do volunteer and we help it it does help uh to get people in and out quicker if there's people there we don't do a lot of work but we're there to help we pr direct traffic you can do a lot of community relations it is also part of your recycling grant dollars that you get yeah and i did pass out recycling info right yeah and then you left and gave it all to me i did i did yeah i'm just gonna say the recycling was successful at that point great anything else kim no and nothing from our treasurer no okay we'll move on to mayor and council member reports tim shorter nothing at this time [Music] uh councilmember wilson uh nothing at this time kim you take the fire department off behind my name on the agenda oh i'm sorry okay okay tim no none john i don't know whether it was mentioned in january's meeting but there has been some conversation about the fact that county road 18 is going to be repaired between the freeway and i believe i'm just going to say after lakeland school since that's all it concerns us and um it's good the impression i got correct me brian if i'm wrong is that this is going to be not a total you know what you would hope would be done right yeah it's not going to be that it's going to be more or less like at the end of 2nd street north trying to deal with the issues there whatever the problems are okay and it's my understanding further that they're going to reroute traffic uh trying to get people up onto stagecoach i believe um and um that's for people that are going through obviously those of us who live on the north end of town don't have much of a problem because we can probably sneak in the back way as compared to using you can go through there it's my understanding as well from you know either direction but it's going to be one one-way traffic and with flag people and that type of stuff so it could be somewhat of a hassle in there and i and it's going to take place i believe they wanted to do it after afton lakman school got out for the for the year so that they weren't dealing with that issue and that's about all i have on it i just think that the community if they ever watch minutes of our meeting should be aware of the fact that that is is going to happen sometime in probably the month of june okay and council member bishop i'll just add to that weight restrictions went down today yeah i put the signs up this morning i saw the county putting them up today too so yeah okay thanks john um i've got a couple things to report on cable commission um tim did a nice job of attending and representing our community he probably was wondering what he walked into um because there are some things going on at the cable commission that frankly are pretty run-of-the-mill but for whatever reason have drawn some attention so there was um a former council member from lakeland and citizen of lakeland that i felt made some reckless comments and followed it up or preceded it with some a reckless email that was sent to a number of council members in lakeland with some fairly strong accusations and i just wanted to even for tim's benefit the joint powers agreement former mayor and council member kopesky did a very nice job of keeping records for the cable commission i think he's the only one that did that reggie was kind enough to provide me with all that information and based on that the minutes from their previous meeting to last year were found um and i was elected last year to be the secretary so i helped call the meeting which could not be held according to the bylaws on the specific date that the bylaws call for because it was president's day we by state statute could not conduct the meeting on president's day so we conducted it a week later that's one of the things that needs to be looked at in the bylaws so that that conflict which will happen on a fairly regular basis is addressed uh there were so why was i involved because i'm the secretary i helped generate the agenda i have no interest in meddling in lakeland's politics i was there as our representative until tim took over this year there were some other statements made that the way the proceeds of the the cable fees are distributed that it's based on land mass well it isn't it's based on the number of users um there were other comments made that uh let's see what else do we have that was interesting at any rate the meeting ended up being productive but there was there was some noise being made that it was an illegal meeting that the open meeting laws were being violated well i think there's even some question of if open meeting laws are applicable because it's a it's a joint powers commission made up of a representative from each municipality but with that said some cities posted the meeting some didn't there's nothing that requires all cities to post the meeting as long as the meeting was posted were fine there has been some initial work done on just cleaning up the bylaws they have made two previous amendments and did a fine job of that there's a couple of these little things that i think will clean up at the end of the day it was business as usual you know it's an annual meeting that decides the distribution of the funds consistent with the way they've been distributed for at least the last six years um so if anybody hears that there was you know some impropriety taking place at the cable commission meaning i want to assure you that that was not the case and that the individual that was speaking wasn't fully informed so there's that and then uh we're still making progress at the middlesen croy water management organization and um our budget is i believe staying at zero so we're not going to see an increase there and uh but the number of projects are up so uh we're really getting a lot of bang for our buck there and if anybody else has an interest in that organization i think that's one of our most valuable joint powers agreements with that said i don't have anything else anybody else have anything yeah i just uh as i think back on our discussion about uh my conversation that i need to have with our city engineer i'm curious did we come up with a figure since that's what he wanted me to bring back to him um thank you but i john personally i'd rather you not say up to 250 i think i'd say a range of 150 to 250 right yeah i mean we don't want some guy you know contractor thinking they want to spend 250 i understand that yeah so i i would from my point of view the range is 150 to 250 is where we seem to be comfortable okay the only the only thing i have to say is that i didn't make the fire meeting last time i was i did but you know they're looking at maybe getting uh a new boat replacing a new boat or getting numbers or whatever but you know it's it i've thought about it after the fact because now i'm on the fire board thanks tom and uh you know they've got more subcommitted committee meetings and i'm getting meeting notices all the time yeah well yeah and none of them have i get them and there's nothing there well and the thing is is that for some reason i don't know why i was still getting them until this month and i've been off for two months already but the interesting thing is is that the bylaws subcommittee uh oh it's just a treadmill it's not going anywhere i mean it hasn't really done anything and that that up to when i departed but and that might be the case from my point of view there's a lot of there's a lot of work uh and a lot of effort going into it whether or not it produces results i guess is yet to be determined but there are a lot of meetings and a lot of energy right and and now the and the the long-range plan or five-year plan or whatever that's another one and that one i am still involved in because i wrote the last go-around on it yeah and beth is doing it this time and she's asked me to help her out so i get calls on that one quite regularly but good i'll make a motion we adjourn second all those in favor we're adjourned thanks don so how long were you on the fireboard i think 13. you