[Music] yeah I can't text over welcome people I'll call to order the uh meeting of Lakeland Shore city council at uh 6:30 uh on April 3rd 202 five um Kim would you take roll code please council member schroer here council member here council member hat herec M ER here may Bishop here um would you all join me in the Pledge of Allegiance IED Ali to the of the United States of America to the stand indivisible thank you and under one uh the final thing is uh is the adopt the agenda can have a motion to adopt the agenda yeah I'll make a motion to adopt the adopt the agenda I'll second it all those in favor I under two we have the consent agenda we have to approve the monthly claim Nam as well as B the January 2nd 2025 city council meeting minutes is there any discussion concerning this at allbody with sharp eyes pick out any problems with the uh meeting minutes with that uh I would move that we uh approve the uh consent agenda I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda and the minutes from January I'll second it all those in favor under Bo we might set a record tonight um under three unfinished in new business uh 3A is crack and seal coat bids Mr mayor council members I do apologize the uh for some reason on the last agenda which I use these forms over and over uh public comment was not on there so public comment comes that anoun okay is there anybody here that would like to speak publicly concerning uh anything that's on the agenda anything that's not on the agenda okay why don't you step up there just sign in and say your name and address and just one address one address we'll go with the address we're talking about uh my name is Janelle Hastings and the address we are talking about is 115 Leland Shores Road and so we are in the process weing my family of moving from 19 195 quinland to 115 Leland Shores road we lost my dad a year ago um that's the house they built together when I was in high school it's the it's our family's house it's too much house for her we also learned as my dad was going through cancer and hospice it's a very unfriendly house to age in or have Mobility problems in so with us moving in we want to put on an addition and expand the living area to include an area that has a single floor space that has bathroom facilities bedroom or living room in office kitchen things that she would like to do with her family grandkids and whatnot but we can't do on the main floor of our house cuz there's no restroom so we've been going um back and forth with Kim Kim we set up she helped us set up a a planning meeting with Jennifer and she came back saying that we couldn't do our plan because it was meeting the definition of its own dwelling unit and so I guess we want some clarification onto specifically how that meets the definition of a dwelling unit within the ordinance and then what we need to do to proceed and this is kind of going back we had that meeting with Jennifer on February 20th she responded back to us with her email March 11th she's never responded again to any of our questions for clarification Kim's kind of trying to be the middle person I don't know who's really making the decision and we're just having trouble moving forward with our plans so we're looking for some clarification and guidance on next steps and I understand it might not be here we just figured it was easier to get in front of a room full of people I mean the good thing is is that you're approaching this the way we would like most people to approach it especially those of us that live on the river as to you know getting some information up front you know before you go to all the trouble of whatever it is that you may have to do in order to have architectural plans and finish plans and whatever else and know some of the problems that exist I personally am not familiar with what you're talking about okay I mean I understand what I think what you want to do okay yep but are you expanding the footprint at all yes you are and in which direction are you going towards the street so so you're going west west so you're not going towards the water M and and I do have if this helps to look at I guess I'm it I guess I'm looking for you for answers I guess we really can't decide on that no May council members it's not your job to review plans yeah and we don't have anything to review uh I mean I'm sorry which is fine right we don't you know like John said we don't know anything about the situation uh yeah and I'm not we're not expecting that you review anything right now we're just trying to look for guidance on right how we I don't know if it's really if are you the zoning administrator yes okay and I I'm I'm just going to say and then I'm going to stop you were given guidance so the the last email I mean I have it in here I'm not an ordinance expert but maybe this that's why we met with the planning consulter she is the that's why we had a pre meeting and uh you were told how to revise the plans and that's how you would get a building permit So based on what she came back with it feels like we satisfy that so how do we so at that point are we had at app pointed of an appeal in which case does that go to you cuz there is no appeal there is no appeal it' be like a variance yeah you to ask for a variance this doesn't qualify okay so so yeah I mean seems to me that you're either need to be talking to the person Jennifer okay um or which would be great she's not responding responding quickly enough for you okay well at all no she's been responding to me and preat meeting is a one-time meeting it's not constant back and forth reviewing plans right so so I realize that you don't want to stick your foot any further into this than you may have already done so but is it your I mean so she just doesn't walk away from here totally frustrated not knowing anything okay uh is it so can we schedule a meeting with you feel that she's got the information from the person that we hire okay and so that she can proceed not with the building permit but with changing her plans in order to she already has that so they what you proposed doesn't meet the criteria so you have to come up with some revisions based on the definition it seems like it does meet the criter and that's why we're confused and according to the plan and that's why we have a planner for and has the planner given you a reason as to why when you I don't know whether you contact her or not she came back based on the submitted plans the attached Adu Edition in includes a complete kitchen and bathroom therefore meets the definition of a dwelling unit which results in two dwelling units on the parcel and the code doesn't allow for that so a complete kitchen and a complete bathroom would mean both of those we have a 3/4 bathroom which is not a complete bathroom so that alone I would think satisfies the ordinance it's not a complete bathroom uh yeah but I mean we're talking about two things here you're talking about a kitchen as well as a bathroom the last email I sent and also sent it to Isaac is um in your plans remove the full the kitchen remove the full bath you are allowed a half bath or a 3/4 bath so then we so we did remove the full kitchen mhm we're not clear why the half bath has anything to do with it and and Jennifer said nothing about how does a half bath make someplace a complete dwelling unit I'm I'm not going to AR yeah I mean I don't know uh have you have you put this way have you gone back to her with the with the with the kitchen removed we've gone back to Kim yeah and review plans right yeah the kitchen needs to be removed and the full bath and then the one half to 3/4 bath can remain we we never had a full bath there was never a full bath in a plan it's never been there so we had we have a three quart the way we have it drawn now now is there's not a full kitchen there's a 3/4 bath and a half bath why does the half where is the definition of that and and for the planner that's what it is she is the ordin not that's not what she said when she came back though she she said it can't have a complete kitchen and a complete bathroom we don't have a complete kitchen that alone satisfies the ordinance there's no complete kitchen so how does the half bath have anything to do with it and we can't we don't know how to proceed when we can't get an answer to that question honest I you know I feel foolish that I don't have the answer for you okay but but you know um we generally rely on Experts that's what we're paying them for or you're paying them for whichever it is and um you know um and she did follow up I mean the last thing in her email was please let me know if you have any questions we've proposed that question and she's never responded back so with the person we've hired I mean it took from February 21st to March 11th to get an answer we immediately had a question we have never heard back she has responded through me and this is why it's a pre app this is why you don't have people on staff it's a Consulting city planner they have other communities they're working with and it was a onetime thing a preap so have you specifically asked her about the half bath what is it how does the half her when she got back to me about your revised plans with no kitchen she said there's two bathrooms in there that is not allow a half or 3/4 bath would be fine one or the other M which is nowhere in the ordinance that's not what the that's not what the ordinance says I'm I'm not in I told you yeah we're not here to interpret it I mean I mean it's clear that adus guest houses mother-in-law Apartments second dwellings are not allowed which it shares utilities it shares the front door it shares everything I don't so well I understand your frustration you I'm sure you're still frustrated um let's see what kind of response you get uh you know if you if you contact her okay I would advise you to send me an email with specific questions um and I will send it to her but the the planner is not going to dig into ordinances give you ordinance numbers she's already looked at this and she's given you her analysis okay so in our city documents on what's it called our City of Lakeland Shore's comprehensive plan talks about communication amongst all of us MH it specifically talks about life cycle housing opportunities we are yeah I we understand what you're trying to do okay yeah we built that house right understand i' like to stay there uhhuh I know that and let me just ask you this one other question um has she pointed you to any ordinances at all that that would would uh necessarily restrict you from uh I have three what she's pointed me to three yep what are that uh a dwelling unit is defined no just what what's the number what's the number it's 151004 yep dwelling unit definition and then 1517 D did you say B uh d as in dog and 1518 B that was a d as well that was a b as Bo I'm sorry and so those um the first one defines a dwelling unit yep and then the second two say that we can't have more than one dwelling unit right on our properties which I understand that part okay right um what we're struggling with is the definition of a dwelling unit that's okay in the ordinances well see if you can get do what suggested here and um I just for my own information since I'm totally blind at this point as far as what these ordinances actually say I I'll take a look at them but um I'm not suggesting I'm going to get back to you because that's not my position but uh I am interested in what it is that you're attempting to do which I think I have a general idea yeah and um you know um and I I do believe that I have her email in here somewhere it seems um I I can follow this up and talk with you and we don't have to take any more time up here and and you should email me and I will pass it on okay thank you thank you y thank you try to speed multigenerational housing that is becoming more and more popular it's much more environmentally friendly and it keeps family right there's a lot of good reasons to do it but uh you know right at the moment that's not what the ordinance allows okay okay moving on I assume that there's nobody else that wishes to speak at public meeting we'll go to three unfinished in new business a crack and seal code bids um I have not gotten together with John par yet I was going to call him um sometime the first part of May I'll call him in April but uh won't be able to get together with till the first week in May if he has time then in which we would probably look at the roads make a decision as to whether there's anything that needs to be done to the roads and um but I did not get together with them last fall because I because basically it is only been about a year since we had the half of our roads for at least uh you know Mill and and coated so um and I am aware of the fact that uh there's some concern about the cracks uh where we joined the county road so I will dwell on that as well okay um and see what he has to say is there any other questions about Rose is that are you going to take a look at that at Second Street too or yeah Third Street yeah I mean where you pointed out yeah just curious yeah I'm not just going to look at the New Roads yeah and [Music] um um 3B is the 2023 fire department dedicated dollars Tim is theur yeah that was so I was just double checking that we saw out of the uh Public Safety money we got in 2023 we gave $5,000 to the fire department that they received and then I know the council had passed a thing to send money to the firemen's relief Association and we did send that is that correct that was like $4,000 $10 for each person in town $4,320 I don't remember that yeah no because I Tom was here and we made a motion to do that I'll have to look that up but I I remember the 5,000 remember the relief yeah that was the other follow up on that okay just as an aside uh and Tim Hatton could speak to this as well but I've been going the last two times to five uh City uh meetings that they have every other month and uh there is a study being done okay before I mean I'm if we if we've already okay the money that's fine okay yeah but I just want you to be aware of the fact that uh I think dire news is coming on the fire department uh you know they're doing this study and it's exhaustive they're collecting all this detail you know about what they've been doing you know for a year this isn't the fire department doing it this is a consulting firm they hired and he spoke at the meeting two months ago and they were just kind of getting going and I kind of got the impression from um at the last meeting which was on uh March 19th that conceivably um you know although the fire department has promised in the past that they wouldn't have raise the rates more than 5% a year that uh you know whatever the study said could conceivably mean that uh it might be more than that yeah it's not feasible what it's not feasible anymore to do it all that so I just wanted you to be aware that before I mean if we've already approved the money that's one thing right but if we haven't I think we ought to hold off until you know we find out what's really going on and I don't know when the study is going to be done but I do know that uh um I think with I believe it's Stanley that's retiring yeah Stanley you know and them having to hire a new Chief etc etc uh but their costs and lack the lack of volunteer help uh or the adequacy of it to cover everything uh May mean some significant changes to just our budget uh in the future so I just throw that out there as U Tim is that how you kind of remember it oh yeah definitely I was going to touch on that later okay and uh then uh consideration of additional dedicated dollars Fire Department is that beyond the 5,000 and in the 4,000 that you said Yeah so basically the the 14,000 some odd dollars we got in 2023 we got from the state for to help out the public safety money and the only thing we have is Deputy sheriffs or the fire department and this fire department is at where they need it we gave 5,000 but the the Fire Relief is separate than the fire department that's for the members for when they retire okay so and I don't know if you guys remember in the past talking about so if a member is in good standing they have so many years and they retire they I think it might be 5,000 a year they get for every year they've been yeah I think if it was a 20-year person it was $100,000 and some of the other surrounding silly cities are up you know 8 9 10,000 and so one of my things is we need to start putting money in this to make it enticing to keep people and get people involved otherwise we're going to be you know have no nobody that's going to respond so that's separate from that and I think maybe Tim added that the additional or that line c yeah I was wondering we had the money from safety cuz we still have like 9,000 left and we have to use it by a certain time I don't think but there is a can's a deadline or not I wasn't sure if there's a deadline on that yeah we gave we cuz we just we have it we know the fire department needed the money we last year at the beginning of the year we we gave 5,000 since we didn't have to spend it um I was going to make a suggesting that we give more money to the fire department out of the 9,000 Plus what's left um cuz I don't know what else can we spend it on I suppose we can give it to the um sheriff's office but then that doesn't come back to the community no they they they were going to they wanted more money for a deputy down in Denmark Township and we don't need to put a provide a deputy down in Denmark Township yeah so that my I was going to suggest that we out of the remaining money give money to the fire department now I guess it's my feeling I guess I've already expressed it that uh until we figure out what's going on with the fire dep Department which we should know or we can find out when this report may be coming through that we kind of hold back on giving any additional money unless there is a Time deadline on it um just to see what's going on to make it the money isn't there's certain parameters we can use with that money on the public safety money there's certain things we can buy and like you know sad to say that we have to provide flat jackets for all our guys and and and stuff and certain coded radios that nobody can get on the frequency that cost eight grand or yeah the new radios that we have to buy are 9 Grand and you have to do that to comply with the county so but we can talk that about that after the next couple months okay anything else on C3 he we're at four which is uh staff updates uh Kim I have nothing going to the mayor and the council reports uh Tim schroer I guess I have nothing cuz we covered what we're Tim Hatton so I do have a couple of things and I normally don't so um the fire department we they passed some permitting processing things that we want to get all the five cities on we're in the process of figuring out who's going to do the billing and stuff like that so some of that will be coming around here soon um one of the things that and John went to the five city meetings they talk about the people's well Waters from the contamination so it's a pretty good idea if you do have a well water to get it tested cuz it does take about a year to get a t back from the is it the county that does it Kim yeah yeah County or if it's a state but there is money available to for remediation if you do have a um issue I think we'd probably have three or four homes that haven't hooked up the city water yet yeah and like my neighbor had a well and when he put in the city hookup got rid of the well it was paid for 100% by the county Pro through the 3M fund um coming up here we have the pancake Rock for the um fire department that's on May 4th from 8 to noon um if you don't know like the any of the firemen and I never did until I joined the board um when you call for help and they show up and you know they're strangers if you don't know anybody when we called the fire department for my mom and and like six or seven people pulled up and I knew all of them and here you have seven people in your home helping a loved one and you know each one of them by first name is but I definitely would suggest going it's a free you can do a um donate food or there's a free will donation that goes to the relief Association plus you can come down and see the department and you know the fancy trucks and whatnot you say that's tomorrow no May 4th it might be Star Wars theme um so like like um the mayor said the chief is retiring so we're in the process of hiring a new Chief the it's kind of delayed because of we were getting the study done the study got pushed off a little bit um it was expensive and we're going through that now and you know hopefully have it back in like a few months um in the meantime we have two Deputy Chiefs that will this is a short story uh we have two Deputy Chiefs that are going to be the interim co- Chiefs together so we're still covered so you don't no nothing to really worry about and then I was going to say about the long-term study there is what they part of the process with the Fitch for the long-term study is they want to talk to quote stakeholders from the city so if if any of you want to like I mentioned before um we're in the process of setting up a meeting they think Fitch will come down for like two days and talk to everybody they need to which includes fighter members or fight department members and everybody else um but like and John touched on it too that we're we're low on members cuz nobody really wants to be a fireman anymore um the average age of the fire member or members down at the apartment is it 50 or a little over 50 yeah yeah and we have a few a few guys who are getting ready to retire who've been doing this for 30 40 years and we're probably going to lose four or five in the next 3 months hopefully we don't and then you know they're not just people numbers they bring experience and knowledge which help the newer members but that's one of the reasons we're having the study done and part of the thing is the pay is not compared to other departments in the area um and especially the relief Association like some of them Relief Associations like Bayport is nearly twice of what we have so staying here for half the your relief Association money versus going up the road to be a fireman if it's hard to keep members so um yeah that was about it but there will be changes coming then after the study and I assume that the cost of the fire service is going to go up um we also need to tack on we haven't really ever since we built the building and we had the um uh what you call that we were paying for it that service yeah for the building that went off so now the building's paid for but there's no money for maintenance or repairs so we're going to have to also add that on so there that'll be another addition well some of the things I'm working on is on the pole that powers the building a roll and got up and we have three phase so a squirrel or something chewed the one phase so we're running on two phase so the one company came out and said you need to pull new wires going to cost 20 or 30,000 from the pole to the building but that's we don't have budget for that and then also we need a new backup generator and that's 25 to 30 grand 3540 yeah and if you don't understand we have a $650,000 budget and we have roughly 6,500 people in this area so we're people are getting fire protection for 100 bucks per person per resident roughly and that you know and we only can do 5% where you do 5% of 650,000 with cost of everything with electric gas everything Insurance inflation everything we can't keep up and so the biggest thing and we can we can do improvements get equipment but if we don't have firemen we're not going to have a fire department and you know long-term planning the study they might say well we need x amount of guys at 100,000 a piece well we you know that would just blow everything out of the water so we're trying to keep by paying more uh putting more money in the relief Association letting people know that they're valued down here because when people pick up the phone and dial 911 they think somebody's going to come and help them and these guys jump out of bed in the middle of the night to come to your house and they B to our house three times in the last 25 years so but oh and part of the thing too we're losing the chief but the chief also does a lot of Maintenance yeah and like does Way Beyond what he's you know asked to do so we're also in the process of figuring out all the extra stuff Jim does and I know Tim is part of that process too of finding an electrician finding a heat and AC guy so there will be changes and again it's it's going to be the study that comes out and the changes you know obviously we're not can't make them right away because no we've already budgeted for 2025 um we're working on the next year's yeah so we're starting to on the 2026 budget but obviously it's not going to something change immediately so I think that's it that's the most I've ever said before sorry about it on no thank you thanks Tim um we had our um JPB recycling meeting last week our annual one time a year meeting and I have nothing to say report from that Roger nothing um well can I guess I say one more thing uh we we also had the um cable commission meeting the once a year sometimes twice a year meeeting and it's the basically the numbers are about the same I think they they shrunk just a little bit from what we'll geted in the past which I don't know how much it was exactly I haven't gotten any complaints on the roads recently uh and I do know that there are some uh places that need to be patched and depending on the number as to whether or not we actually you know hire somebody to do it or whether I get out there with a bag of asphalt from Menard's but um so once I've gone over the and I'll try to uh see PR before I go out of town but U I'm going to uh uh so that if we do need to do something we can have it ready for the meeting next time we meet um I have gone around and cut some of the brush on uh on Lakeland Shores road that encroaches on the on the pavement as well as uh uh the road that goes from quinland over to uh coyote uh there's a couple of other places that I have to hit yet it's easier to do it when there aren't any leaves on the trees and um on the brush I should say and I know in the past uh you know we've asked the homeowner to do it but there's uh so little to be done uh for the most part except for maybe over there next to you Tim um that uh it's nothing I can't do in the in my retirement put it that way um I did cut the rest of the uh uh flowers uh or what was left of last year's flowers on the median uh sometime last week uh I'm not quite sure why they stopped because they had done such a great job of they being Lakeland had done such a great job of uh taking all the uh uh flowers down um but either way I normally think of us as being responsible for three out of nine of of the mediums and uh and I didn't do more than one and a half was all that was left and one other thing that came out of the joint five City meeting the other day was the brush uh uh location that they want to put in the southern part of the County as compared to us all driving up to Yugo and um they've come they actually purchased the property it's where the driver's school is uh on the Frontage Road that's kind of by the uh up there by the uh well it's right across from the church that old truck driving school there okay and they're going to use the building I think for uh the sheriff's department is going to use that some way um and the um the brush will be there uh somewhere on the there's a fair number of Acres there yeah was it like 45 Acres there yeah you know it seemed seemed an awful lot considering it just between there and the freeway but anyway um I know they paid significant money for the place even though it had been for sale forever um but they did indicate that the early state for opening would be uh uh probably early summer of 2026 so we talking about you know 15 months from now um and other than that um I don't think there's a anything to be added to it it's about it's it's all I've got thank you would someone uh like to make a motion to adjourn I'll make the motion to adj the meeting I'll second the motion all those in favor all right yeah my son and I were looking at e e e