have a lot of buttons push I'll call the Lakeland Shore City Council meeting October 3rd 2019 6:30 here at Lake st. Croix beach city hall to order if Kim would you take roll call please here remember Pesky's absent this evening he had prior engagement if you'd please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance [Music] item of business is the consent agenda there's three items on there approving the monthly claims the September 5th 2019 City Council meeting minutes and resolution number 2019 - oh nine variance to allow Home Edition and Dec at 3:33 Quixote Avenue north any questions or comments no I'd make a motion that we approve the consent agenda is there a second any discussion call for a vote all those in favor signify by the sine of I all right any opposed motion carries public comments you're with us this evening but you're on our agenda as the next item Kim do we have any written public comment we do not and packets went out so I encouraged her to come to public event and do kind of a concept plan review oh I'm sorry I was thinking that she was part of the Washington County Historical economist oh I'm sorry welcome welcome if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself and thank you and I am gonna apologize in one second did we do adopt the regular agenda or just the consent agenda both okay may I ask who made the motion in the second for the regular I had the second I had the motion for both regular and consent yeah okay all right works for me thank you sorry about that sir time today on my name is Joey Gibbons I am a resident of the city and I'm here today to present you a proposal for a resub division basically splitting an existing subdivision I've got a packet of information I'd like to walk you guys through some maps and then and frankly this will be information only we'll need to have some type of a formal application and present this to you let you know what we're thinking what we want to do give you all the information I have and find out what else do I need to do and make a happen all right go right ahead super um as you probably know this area was gravel pit I'm up until about 20s a lot of gross sparked spurts and parcels were developed for housing the last big development was the city the heart of the gravel pit which is center of the city the houses along the north side of my lot were developed and then the cul-de-sac in that area my law the five year car lot was what was left over when they did that last subdivision and it was sat vacant for a few years and then in 98 we purchased it and built our house in the far northwest corner of the lot Marlin is track G RLS 116 so if the first handout in your packet is the Lots there's a plants from this county this is just taken right off the county the top one is really shows the entire city the bottom one zoomed in on RLS 116 and you can see mine is the large lot in the center there the second map is just really for your reference I know you guys know this map but it's the city zoning map you can see ours is right where it says Zone C so we're clearly in zone C so not looking at some of the higher restrictions that I know go along with Zone A hey Note 3 is another map of the city this one is showing it's colored by parcel size according to Washington County you can see there is only one parcel over 10 acres which is a school there's only one person in the 5 to 10 acre range which is our parcel there are a couple in the 3 to 5 but really the majority of the parcels in the city are all under 2 acres and the next page behind it is just a mock-up of what we are proposing for our Lots flip so it's the same map but now we're adding the new proposed lot on there and you'll notice that the personal sizes are a little more in keeping with the character of the city and that our current parcel is really about the same size as for adjacent parcels so we bring it down it's really not making tiny Lots it's still there's still good sized Lots let's see and then the next map is really the concept drawing of the lot showing the two the split the smaller lot which is where the existing home is would be 1.3 acres the rest of the lot would be 3.7 acres you can see the driveway coming in from the southwest it goes downhill and loops around and then the proposed home site in the far northeast corner of the property and then the primary and secondary septic sites are right there as well the next map behind it is really just a contour map and you can see if you look at the southwest corner there's a natural ridge line that's where we're proposing to bring the driveway in where that natural ridge line is and then curving around following the contours and then down and around to the back can I interrupt you for just say absolutely and I'm sorry I didn't realize that I needed to do my homework on this have you looked at our city code in terms of minimum lot size yes sir and is that 1.5 no most of the Lots are under yeah I know it's it's very confusing in terms of what most are but what do you have there Kim 56,000 don't see okay it'll be 36,000 it's done by square feet yeah okay so less than an acre yeah all right so yeah it really aren't in that in that zone it does allow the smaller Lots so this really is but I just want to be clear for the record that it doesn't necessarily matter what the other lot sizes are correct it's specific to our zoning code so it looks to me like that's not an issue okay I was more concerned about your existing home and that maybe that wasn't a large enough parcel for our code yep then is there in code and we can look at this when an application comes forward yeah but a lot of times there's a minimum amount of frontage on the street there is a hundred feet okay and will this meet that yes it does okay the new lot is 100 feet okay not then I've not been in town long enough to know and I'll have to ask our resident historian but do you know was there some type of a concession made when the rest of that property was subdivided I mean the whole parcel yes in terms of why this was left the way it was I believe originally I don't know this for a fact this is what I've been told through historians other people have said that originally this five acre was going to be dedicated to the city as a park right okay right and and so and then what happened was this cul-de-sac to the south there was some concern about some asbestos tiles that were buried there and the city had a lot of concerns and so they required a city engineer to be on site whenever there was any work done and there was a lot and so there was a lot of tension between the developer and the city and the developer went and had a court case of some kind to take to lay the land back so that it would not go to the city as a park he then gave it to his son who was supposed to build a house there and his son moved to Arizona and did not want to build a house okay I was sold to the people that owned it before us and he was going to build a graph or a concrete display area down there because it was a concrete guy and he has wife got divorced they decided to sell the house and then we show this is very solo free yeah all right those are the my three questions for you sure great um there's not very many pages left the some pictures and I apologize a little bit for the quality of pictures but the first page is the driveway location as you as you come up the road the driveway is to the right the second picture the picture on the right is really looking down the new driveway so you can see this is really where there is a ridge there are large mature trees to the right and to the left of where the driveway would go down and this would go down in that center portion so if you go down the street it's really pretty clear where this driveway would go it's already it's already kind of looks that way the next picture shows the new house location I talked about that the driveway would go downhill once it gets down to the bottom of the hill in the back that's where these pictures are taken from the top one if you look straight across the the flat area that would be the yard and just to the left of center by the trees is where the house on location is the bottom map is basically taken from the same place but it's pointed more north so the trees that you see there are the true the driveway will be behind those trees the house will be in the far right side of the bottom picture and the driveway will curve behind those trees the last two pictures are from the house itself the top one is from the house looking back and you will see it's looking at where the driveway is going to be and the bottom one is taken behind those trees and so this is from basically the house looking due east so this is where the driveway would go the trees on the left are the ones that I was talking about it would go behind and then on the right it goes uphill like this up to the other properties on that side alright so the last handout is really just a closing a summary SARS benefit to the city of this the city has minimal opportunity for growth we're a fully built city and this provides an additional household which would be additional tax revenue but more than that it's really feeling in an urban whole and and making better use of the land for the purpose for which it was intended which is residential development I've got a copy of some excerpts from the ordinances Subdivision regulates regulations chapter 152 as you know is the planning ordinance it says why you should play it how you should play it's very detailed and an example of why you should plat is that the recorded plat then becomes a legal document you deal with conveyance as of land it's much clearer and simpler this has already been done for this lat the for the site's already a subdivision is already a plat then I put down 150 2.00 3 which is a definition of a resub division which is a change in a map of an approved or recorded subdivision plat if that changed affects any street layout or any lot line and lot line is is the key word here wouldn't this be a minor lot split well because of the fact that it's already a subdivision if you have a lot that has not been planted before yeah but you can even split applied a lot isn't this a minor lot split on Tuesday I will make it real clear she was not expecting any action from the council this evening it more of a concept lets you know that this was coming forward when I spoke with her I did indicate to her that it is a minor subdivision and application would have to be made a public hearing has to be scheduled and noticed and and sent out to the residents right and what I'm seeing is under 150 to 1000 nine if it's a resub division so if it's an existing plant it's already them title once before resub division in a case to divide a lot which is part of a recorded plat to create two Lots and the newly created property line will not cause the other remaining portion of the lot to be in violation with this regulation or the zoning code the division may be approved by the City Council after submission of a survey by a registered land surveyor showing the original lot and the proposed subdivision so what it's doing is that particular provision allows less of an onus on the requirements for doing this because it's already been done once we're not ready to even build the house this year what we're looking for is we're looking for the resub division completed we'd like to get a grading permit to put the driveway in that will allow us to bring in some larger trees and get out some of the big weed trees that are there and provide better access for soil testing we know we're gonna have to do some soil testing back there for the county that they need to do that and we're asking the city to approve the resub division and we're asking for a green permit to I'm saying I'm just some excuse me say I'm just I just want in quick summary just to recap the land is already a plant it's already recorded the county everything needed to satisfy chapter 152 was already done when the plotting process happened before so this has already gone through this process it's already gone through the public hearing that's already been done and so we're asking for a resub division which is a change to that plant to create two Lots neither of which will be in violation with this regulation or the zoning tort and so we're asking for the City Council approval of the subdivision and being permitted to construct the driveway so that's all I had I appreciate you listening to me do you guys have any questions about any concerns no I think we'll look for you to make application and Kim I'll take you through that process in our city engineer review it and comment as well and that we'll have a public hearing and Council can ask you questions then is there a particular forum that's needed there's a minor subdivision application on the city's website okay and so what I'm hearing is that you're not you're not going to use the re the might the resub division language you're not even on the agenda so we wouldn't be able to take action on the item anyways I understand that but if you'll just coordinate with Kim offline she'll get you whatever forms you need then we'll have her review it our county engineer or our city engineer review it and/or the city attorney and we'll make sure we're heading down the right path great thank you I appreciate your time thank you very much I can get this to him I have she's got something thank you I guess I thought something to help get coffee so I mean there's a thank you okay thank you and I also have a certificate of survey if you want to put it with it to give it to the engineer yes does this show for the current lot and then the to propose lots this is the clock okay so this is really the only line that's changed as this line is being added the other lines are all the same just just so you don't like me walk down there it's so far away for me to go down and look at it so okay I'm not going down I'll go down there after Frost okay thank you Kim any written comments yeah all right we'll move on to item four a consideration of WCHS financial grant I believe candidly that I was pretty straightforward on this I just don't know that it's appropriate I don't I personally don't feel it's appropriate that we use taxpayer money to to make donations of any kind you know the nearest exception we have to that that I'm aware of is ysb but that is a contract for services and we do ask them to show the number of residents that they're providing service to in our city so with that said I I have concerns about going down this road even though I you know I can find a way to support them I just it I think it's a bad precedent for us I agree so are we were respectfully declining their request but enthusiastically supporting their efforts right I think we should do that as well as if anybody actually looks at these videos from our city you know individual contributions I think would be a wonderful way for people to contribute if they feel that this is very important and that they would like to contribute to it so I would urge people to do it individually Kim would you like that in the form of a motion okay we'll move on to consideration of Fire Department condemnation of building I spoke to the property owner both after twice since our last meeting he's indicated to me that he's reached out to one or two people that he knows at the fire department trying to find out or ask the question you know does this help his cause or not help his cause and he's not been able to make contact with anyone I you know I certainly understand that it may nice to see something happen there and I think we're in a holding pattern because he's in a dispute with his insurance company I guess my question is if we are to condemn this does that start the clock and he has to complete demolition of the building by a particular time I think so we have a fire board meeting next week next week you you can talk to him yeah you talk to good laughing I'd like it to be a coordinated effort I mean I'd really like to see something happen there I don't know that I'm quite ready to force it on anyone yeah if we can help the homeowner out that's great what are your thoughts now I'm I am having a thought on how I'm I'm I'm gonna go I think what I'll do is I'll approach the fire department with okay here's what we here's what we've got an insurance dispute now is there leverage we can gain from having you guys get involved as the fire department against you know to assistant to homeowner with this challenge we're gonna call it I think that's the way I'm going to at the fire department you know because I know and do they have the authority to condemn it on their own oh yeah they do so it's not that it requires our Council action you know so maybe what we're asking for is for the fire department to meet with the property owner Tim and I'll bring it up coordinators well I take that back I've been involved in like in st. Paul the fire department they come in and the fire marshal they'll condemn a building and you it would've seemed like they we had the authority but I don't know with ours okay you know we don't really have a fire Mart right we don't yeah so it's a little bit different situation so but we will certainly bring it up with the fire department and Jim and I'll kind of see if we can coordinate an effort yeah if there's meets to us as a city to jump back into it yeah my only fear is this thing continues to drag on and on and you know it's got to be the nuisance of some sort oh yeah the mere fact that it exists he wants to get it done and out of there and get something replaced or rebuild because you know I've never talked to the individual and I don't yes sir I need to but I think if the fire department's not going to deal with it and fairly rapidly and we ought to ask the owner of the building to our next meeting and the hell that's exactly what his plans are and you know I mean to me the fact that they're having an insurance dispute in this age of yeah you know videotaping or whatever you know it just seems to be it's kind of it's it's beyond you know I mean how can it be holding up I can understand how it holds up these plans as to what to do but that's why we need to find out what is presently going to usually maybe that's the thing we do we don't we send an official communication ask Kim if she could communicate with him that we'd like to know what his plan is when the structure is gonna be demolished and or if he's coming forward with an application to build a new structure we'd like to see it clean yeah I've never been in there it looks terrible but you know maybe he's really try to rehab it I don't know and it's a safety hazard yeah I think the thing is is that we'll give you an address I'm not exactly sure I bet it was a long time ago but somebody was using a building on their property as a commercial business but it wasn't insured that way and that's where the rub came in and delayed because the insurance company was challenging the use of it and so I don't know if that's what's happening here but that's the kind of stuff that crops up I know too many underwriters well let's send that formal communication and if you'd communicate with the fire department and let's see if we can't move this start moving in the right direction yeah if you could communicate to either Brian myself or somebody you know so we could maybe put it on for next the next meeting you know like we should continue to have it on there right yep so I mean if you're not able to come to consensus at the fire right if that I'll call you Kim if I whatever I get out of the fire department next week I'll make sure that gets into a mix with us okay or maybe Tim oh yeah and Kim needs the address so one of us has to get into it okay we won't take any action then our next item is consideration of city treasurer appointment we discussed at the last meeting that Judy is retiring and won't be able to continue to help us as she has for the past year and a half or so so we had three people express interests to it looks like respondent yet Marin councilmembers the other one that had an interest their meetings are the same night her other cities start this meeting I guess the same as this one so that'll be why she did not okay send anything over so their work experiences there I would just add that I've never worked directly with Neill Psaltis but I've I've worked in communities that he's been involved in and I've always found him to be approachable and reasonable and when the need arose frankly I panicked because this is a difficult position to fill so I'm thrilled that we have more than one applicant but I did reach out to Neil who just recently retired and said is this something that you would consider doing for Lakeland chores and he had said that he he worked and then after our last meeting we asked him if he would provide his background so just as a little history for you any thoughts or preferences well it's necessary deck down tonight I'm assuming yes good ready to leave so you know if somebody knows either one of these people and or at least knows of them and those of their work you know the only real question I have is do they have some ideas to how much were actually paint I I did indicate to mr. Soltis that it was a thousand dollars a month which is what we're paying now well maybe you're right about that oh I know I'm telling myself what did I communicate [Applause] boy John that's an excellent question did I quote him wrong on that I don't believe you good you don't think so no I think I got it right I'm sure that he's fully aware of what the payment was I don't believe that the other one was good and I think that they were maybe looking at putting a bid in so okay I think Neal wasn't we're all right I would want to confirm that because I hope I didn't screw up there but with that said well I think we ought to go along mr. Soltis to me he lives close by you know it's always a chance because you know you're first retired and you think you want to keep your hand in it and then you know before you know what you're thinking god I really want to go to Europe um it just seems to me that as long as he's reliable and you know somebody that if he does to say it after a year that he's not gonna do it any longer that we can then decide wait somebody else yeah well do we want to phrase it this way that that he would be our first champion and that in the event that things have changed for him or if there was any misunderstanding about compensation that we would maybe reach out to marry Paul as our alternate alternate I'd make that motion is there a second second any discussion call for a vote all those in favor I was opposed motion carries you got me doubting myself no I'm not a hundred percent confident and so alright yeah well getting old I guess staff updates hey thank you appreciate your help on 8th Street or 2nd Street there oh yeah we're kind of short notice but I think we were able to get a good resolution getting that patched so and I guess that did remind me I went and got the rest of the files from Dave Magnuson oh you did I guess yeah Oh bless you hey how many were there two boxes oh I've had this on my mind that it was another truck and a half load Lego John and I oh that's what a relief thank you well you see Dave yes I did how's he doing he looks good good awesome yeah he just made my night good I'm good cuz that's been on my list all right perfect mayor remember cap s Keys absent Tim uh that was the only thing is I see that there's progress on that building they're born footings today what did they pour today yeah they poured okay yeah and that I didn't drive by it but I'd notice they patched the street so I'm sure you guys are well aware of that yeah there was an opportunity there was someone in doing a rather large project in the area and I asked them if they would be able to take care of that they'd be able to saw cut it and they came down measured it gave the property owner a quick bid and we were able to reach them and say they'd like you two to get this done so okay we're not having to place a lien on the property he's gonna pay yep he he agreed to the bid and we afford him the invoice to him and he he's probably painted already hopefully he's paid a very I didn't want to do it without his knowledge or approval and and he'd give us that so that's good way to do it yeah Tom um couple things we I had a discussion before the meeting with Kim about that specific property and the deputy chief went down there to I'm gonna use the term get an idea of what was being built determine if it needed to be sprinklered and I almost needed to be sprinklered if so and then one other thing that I didn't mention that I should is is that there was concern about the width of the driveway going back in there and I thought it was 14 feet going back in my memory on that driveway and they need at least 12 and but the Debbie chief couldn't get a solid answer from the contractor and so that was part of our application and approval so we can get that answer for you yeah and but I'm Kim has sent an email to the owner and hopefully we can get that to the contractor and there can be a level of cooperation that hasn't occurred yet between okay good now that's great a couple things on the fire department that really don't pertain to us today but will have an impact on us as we go forward as some of you may know Hudson is contracting with Lakeview hospital for their EMS so they are going to station ambulances Lakeview ambulances in Hudson short-term that doesn't have a big effect on us other than mutual aid kind of things long-term the fire department has kind of come to the conclusion that with an ambulance that close we may not have to be an ambulance EMS station anymore I mean one of the big concerns with EMS here was is that ambulance coming down from Stillwater added an extra 12 minutes into the getting here their advanced life support we're basic life support there's a number of different things going on there advanced life support is going to go to Hudson we're we're kind of as a fireboard we're thinking that three to five years from now we may not have an ambulance anymore we may be using Lakeview ambulances and that has a big impact on our equipment requirements and that's where I guess it was going here is that we had the company that builds our ambulances to stop by and take a look at our ambulance and they said there's nothing wrong with this ambulance it's got at least three years left in its life cycle so I think what we're gonna try to aim for is if we're gonna do the Lakeview thing we want to coordinate that with the the life cycle of the current ambulance and so you're gonna hear more and more about this over the next couple of years as we go forward and I just want to kind of give everybody a heads-up because inevitably somebody asked me if they know somebody in Hudson they talked about this is gonna happen what are we not going to have ambulance not for a while we're going to keep ambulances for a while but it's amazing to me how that stuff travels and by the time it gets to me sometimes they're gonna we're going to be using horses and carriages to piston ham different smoking so anyway just that's just kind of an FYI and otherwise things have gone reasonably well it's been a busy couple months as I recall west last month they had 51 runs which is a big month for those so anyway I'm done that would be that would be combined that's that's rescue EMS and fire and is it safe to say cuz I kind of I was under the impression that we do more with ambulances and going down definitely definitely do with fires where we are about a I'm gonna say about an 80/20 80% of our runs on EMS 20% ER fire I'm gonna last month we had three calls to our city and just so you get the terminology right the EMS when you talk about ambulance and EMS say the city at the same thing rescue is a little different rescue is generally car accident and rescue report and if rescue dictates that there be a truck sent because especially on the freeway we have to use our $600,000 fire truck is a blocker and I'm I keep saying we ought to just buy a dump truck parking out there but but no it's it's a requirement of the fire department or the fire code that we use a big vehicle as a blocker especially on the freeway and so instead of putting three guys out an ambulance we have to run eight guys out three and a ambulance at 5:00 on a truck when we're doing a rescue rescue will continue to be part of our but it won't the ambulances will not be one last question do you think Lakeview is just expanding the number of ambulances they have they're adding or is it eat humans so yeah it was a TMS and to chariots or to ambulances and that's a contract issue there I mean they're gonna sit there we don't have the volume to have one ambulance at our our station for them to make money at it so and we do have a lot of medical assist yeah there's a there's a what is it $35,000 boom the gurney go ahead the autoloader we just got an Allen order put on the ambulance which is it's not an automatic gurney it just picks it up and puts it right back in the ambulance it's basically the the fire department has told me that the patient average weight has considerably increased and so they yeah so I'm done okay I'm sorry did you have anything no thanks yep John I haven't gone for a while so I'm not sure other than the patch on 2nd Street north which we have to compliment the mayor for having accomplished I don't know I am just gonna run over there tonight then I can play him behind I assume that we still haven't got the class 5 on but by the school was fourth you and unless they did in the last day or two you know knowing we asked John Prodi at the last meeting to reach out and I provided on the contact John called me today asking if he needed to be at the meeting and I indicated no but I forgot to ask him for an update on that okay so maybe just touch base with yeah I mean I really think we no matter whether that we you know split it with a school district or what I honestly think we need to get it done before winter comes ya know one way or the other because oh you know yeah now I feel called John that'd be great I'll do that what happens if he says the the school's reluctant to do anything or ask him to reconsider that's the school they're kissing I'll make a phone call that I have a party tonight yes the least they can do that's they're the ones causing the wear and tear okay yep I don't have anything we at wmo meeting and Washington County CDA meetings and all those things are moving smoothly and we had a slight budget increase for wmo but that was communicated and part of our budget that's all I have is there a motion to adjourn make a motion to adjourn second all those in favor aye aye those posts carries we're adjourned thanks time