a little bit. Okay. So, it is 5:30 and I'll go ahead and call the February 10th Planning Commission to order. Um, oath of office. Am I saying this right, Bridget? Say your last name. >> Ramali. >> Ramali. Okay. I was going to drop some hard A's, some hard Minnesota A's in there. >> All right. Um, now we'll have to speak into the microphone, but if you want to repeat after me. >> I >> I >> Bridget Ram Rali >> Bridget Rmali >> do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of Minnesota >> and the Constitution of the State of Minnesota >> and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of Planning Commissioner for the city of Newport to the best of my judgment and ability. >> And that I will faithfully discharge the duties of the Office of the Planning Commission for the city of Newport to the best of my judgment and ability. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. Done. >> Very good. We have a full house again. >> Okay. Administrator, want to call the role. >> Commissioner Ramali >> here. >> Commissioner Kermies >> here. >> Commissioner Fueling >> here. >> Commissioner Bonia >> here. >> Chair Lady >> here. Um, item four, meeting minutes from December 9th. It was a pretty >> lengthy meeting. >> It was. >> Y'all were here. I did read it. I didn't have any changes between that and the recording, but if anybody saw anything, >> now's the time to talk about that. Otherwise, I'd entertain a motion to approve. >> A motion to approve. >> Got a motion to approve. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> I have a motion to approve from Commissioner Fueling. A motion to second from Commissioner Kermes. All those in favor say I. I >> I All those opposed. Minutes are approved. Uh on to number five. Quickly about number five. We'll be holding the public hearing this evening, at least starting it uh after there's any public comment or any questions from the public. We will table it until the March 10th meeting and we'll reopen the public hearing. I think residents were renoticed and so we just want to give everybody an opportunity if there's anybody here today that wants to say anything. Um so Nathan, >> yeah, chair and members of the commission, uh good evening. Um I am sharing on the screen right now the um second page of this public hearing notice that was sent out to the community. Uh this was a a a notice that as we typically do was sent to properties that are located within 500 ft of the subject site. Um I just want to talk a little bit about the project that we are reviewing just so that you all are understand kind of what's coming down the pipeline here with the public hearing in March. Um you'll see that on the screen we have this development site um that's south and east of Hastings and Bailey Road. So this is the area uh that the development uh request is for and we will be able to present a review of this project at the next planning commission meeting. Uh the developer had to uh provide some updated plans as this is a pretty tricky area uh for them to figure out how to develop. So um we've been coordinating back and forth with them and we'll expect to have uh more finalized plan set available for review at the next meeting. So that's why this public hearing has been renoticed. So thank you. I'm happy to take any questions. >> Any questions before we open the public hearing? >> None here. >> Final question. Is this is this already uh brought to us once a similar or was it did the developer here with questions? I just want to refresh. >> No, that's a great question. We we did review this project as a concept plan. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And it was a man I think it's between 6 months to a year ago at this point. >> Yeah. I just remember this section area. Same developer. Yep. Got it. >> Um and I will I will mention that we do have a um preliminary PLA planned unit development and comprehensive plan amendment request for this project. It's >> um 74 or so single family units uh as proposed right now. So >> uh what do we maybe now is not the time to ask. What did we do with the roads? >> Uh can you refine the question a little bit? >> Um we talked about we had to bring access in from the cemetery. >> Yep. which was going to be a pretty steep significant road. >> Yeah. >> Uh do we have that? >> So that is a great question. Um >> or should I take the stand to ask these questions? >> No, no, we're good. So the uh two points of access is still a requirement for for the city to have this number of residential units here. So uh we do we are seeing that second access that you saw previously >> on the plans. >> Okay. And then who was going to fund that? >> That's the developer. >> Yeah. I chair and uh members of the commission to be clear any developer that comes to the city of Newport uh proposing to develop uh parcels their responsibility is to um uh you know just like Cherrywood and Bailey Farms and uh and this one here, Eastridge, they're going to have to pay for their infrastructure. That's not something that the city's going to be doing. Uh or they'd have to negotiate it. But again, you know, the city's not interested in that. Uh we do have requirements for access and thankfully our engineer have have have worked with this developer and and they're uh they got a plan that we believe will work. So >> as a resident and a person on the planning commission, I thank you for both of those answers. >> Um so any other questions before we open? >> Nope. >> No. Okay, we'll go ahead and open the planning uh the excuse me, the public hearing for the East Ridge Heights development at 5:36. We will give it a minute in case somebody's darting up those stairs. Okay, I will go ahead and if there's nothing from the audience, we see no one, um we'll go ahead and table the public hearing until the March 10th planning commission at which time we will reopen the public hearing and people can uh make their comments sl hearing at 5:37. Okay. Number six, our annual trainings. It's a perfect day for you to start. >> All right. Um Joe, is there anything else that you'd like to share before I jump into the presentation? >> Yeah, I'm super excited. I uh I think Oh, jeez. Is this our third training or is there our fourth? >> It's getting up there. >> Yeah. So, super excited. This is an opportunity for the planning commission to ask those questions. Of course, we've had a number of applications in the past year and I think uh great opportunity for for folks to ask questions, clarifications about process. I know we've had a couple conversations chair about how we want to do business and I think this is the opportunity for us tonight to kind of uh we have a new member and then decide how we want to do business uh going forward in 2026. So, yeah. >> All right. Well, thanks Joe. Um so, uh thanks everyone. This is this is a nice uh thing and I think we did this at the same meeting last year. So we're about a year exactly out from the 2025 training. So every year I try to think about what else we can talk about and add on to the knowledge base that you all have. But this will be for most of you kind of a refresher uh a good one for both of us all of us involved here. So just want to start with some very basic information. Uh what is community planning really it's also known as urban or city planning? The goal of that of this practice is to maximize the health, safety, and economic well-being of people that are in our communities. Uh this involves thinking about how people move around, how uh how do we attract and retain thriving businesses and ultimately where do we want to live and what opportunities do we have for recreation or other quality of life uh aspects. Uh so specific to community planning, uh city planners work with residents and elected or appointed officials to guide an entire community or even a region's layout. Um planners take a broad view and look at how the pieces of the community fit together. Um planners typically will make recommendations for how to proceed. You'll see a lot of times and we'll talk about my recommendations to you and your recommendations to council. One of the biggest challenges we have is trying to shake our crystal ball and or our magic eightball I should say and look into our crystal ball and figure out how are things going to shape up in the next 10 to 15 or even 20 years into the future. Uh and how how what needs will our community have? Um more a finer point on why planning is important of course uh to create policies and goals that give us a a distinctive sense of place. Um we have a very important role in the planning process uh to encourage public dialogue. We just had a public hearing. Uh this provides a very critical democratic process for stakeholders to have their voices heard. uh we get really when we get robust public input uh we tend to end up with a stronger outcome. Um subsequent planning decisions when we've received input are more consistent um and are less likely to be controversial. So when the public has an opportunity to buy in and engage uh we tend to have a better outcome. Uh we are able to better balance competing interests through the planning process. So, uh, thinking about the competing needs for perhaps, you know, commercial versus, uh, residential or other, uh, tensions in in the planning process, we can work through them. We protect our public investments. So, when we do a good job and I think as the city has done a good job in planning for a new infrastructure, we don't dig it up next year when we have an issue, right? We we t we really want to avoid the amount of digging in our streets. Joe's laughing about that one. Uh, supporting and justifying our decisions. So, from a legal standpoint, I think the the planning process is very important. So, we can uh help to keep Joe out of court. So, who plans? Of course, uh, we all plan. So, public officials uh are a very important part of this process for sure. Either making decisions or providing, you know, those critical recommendations. developers or your applicants are are planners on a site level. Sometimes very granular level, sometimes a whole master plan for a site like our Bailey site. Of course, you have your planning professionals like myself who, you know, really try to provide you you with a set of guard rails that you can kind of go between and hopefully get to the end result that the community is really looking to achieve. And then of course and most importantly the public um making sure that the residents of the community are accounted for in terms of um their having their voices heard or their needs met. Um one thing we don't talk about about a lot is youth and their importance and importance of our future uh decisions or our decisions on their future. Okay. So what uh what are plans like what what are some of the actual outcomes? We have long range plans. So that's your comprehensive plan. Those are the 10 20 year plans. Uh we have redevelopment plans. So these are sightsp specific. You might think of a um strategic uh redevelopment area for looking at uh different opportunities or situations. Master plans. These are areas that are o over a larger site. uh typically uh entire downtowns, maybe a university campus or a recreational area. Housing studies are a very specific type of plan. These identify the needs in a community for different types of housing. So we might have a shortage of one type and an abundance of another. And lastly, small area plans. Uh these are plans that look at uh specific neighborhoods or sites or even corridors. We have a commercial small area plan over the seventh and Hastings corridors. So those are some different actual types of plans, but I would also mention that planning is also just a process. We t we talked about that. That's a very important part of u what we do. So I also like to mention for those of you who like Wikipedia um go down a rabbit hole now and then the basis for planning authority in our state comes from um federal law, federal case law, the village of Uklid versus Amler. That's a kind of a famous case that gave rise to the idea of zoning as a legal practice. And then we have state statutes that actually enable cities to have that land use planning authority. So that's where uh that's what we are working under. I want to talk about comp planning really quick. That's this is going to be an important topic over the next couple years. So we might as well dive in. Comprehensive plans are um it's all in the name. They're a plan. They do a lot. It's very important. It's comprehensive. >> You can see in the image all of the different types of chapters that we have within a comprehensive plan. Starting with the vision, right? We we have the vision as our community like where do we want to go? What are our goals? Then we have a land use chapter, a transportation, water resources, housing, parks and open space, economic development, and lastly implementation. So these are um a very robust this is a very robust document that helps provide a a very strategic way to get to where we want to go. It's uh very broad over the entire city. The subject matter as I mentioned and then the time horizon in the metro here, we plan in 20-year increments. We're required to update our comprehensive plan every 10 years. So we have a 2040 plan. We're coming into the imagine 2050 process. Imagine 2050. So >> that's going to be the next the next plan that we work on. We're thinking that far out. I'll move in >> and you'll all be on the planning commission by 2050. So you'll get to see the implementation of the whole plan. >> Good. >> Um implementing the comprehensive plan. So it's, you know, definitely um a requirement in the metro, but cities uh adopt comp plans outside the metro. These are very important documents that are really helpful to to a community in um in how it develops. And so we we implement our comp plan by uh using it to support or deny development proposals. They have to be in line. We will use it to uh give us guidance on what to do about zoning code changes when we're asked to put a new use in the land use table or something. Uh we will lean on our comprehensive plan at the end of the day to understand is this in line with the goals for our community broadly or maybe even a specific area within our community. Um, comprehensive plans, as you might guess, will help us guide our public and infrastructure investments. This is really important for both water and sewer and roadways. Um, we will be able to understand where's that development coming, how much development will there be, so that we know, hey, how big do our pipes need to be so we don't have to dig them back up, where do we need new connections or uh maybe we need to loop our water man, stuff like that. These are all things that comprehensive planning helps us with. Um these are also um Joe has a very good success rate with grants and he's able to use your comprehensive plan to request grants and justify uh the projects that he's asking for grants for. Uh lastly, the comp plan helps us to plan to plan what do we need to be thinking about here? Uh do we need a new master plan? Do we need a preservation plan? Do we need to look at this or that? Um, this is a helpful document to help focus our efforts. I promise I will build in some question some strategic breaks I have in this slide deck. So there will be an opportunity to ask questions but if you have something feel free. So imagine 2050 again I kind of want to start talking about this a little bit more. Um this process actually started about a year ago with the adoption by the Met Council of its Imagine 2050 policy plans and um more recently in September of 25 the Met Council released the system statements for all the communities within the metro. So the system statement is really starts with a forecast for the community of uh the city of Newport or other communities. The forecast tells us what we need to plan for. And so, um, communities will begin, uh, within this year, most communities will start or at least have a plan for, um, updating their whole comp plan with the idea that all of these, uh, comprehensive plans in the metro have to be done or at least in draft form by June of 2028. So we have time uh but certainly we'll we'll be looking at how we move forward from here. Um this is a really good opportunity. The comp plan process is ob is our best opportunity to really revisit and start to think hard about how how are things working for us with development. Where might we want to rethink our strategy for land use or may our vision need some adjustments. So these are all the kind of the big highle questions that are really best to answer during the comp plan process. Uh specific to Newport, I just wanted to put a couple things on the slide here. So um in Newport is classified as a suburban community. Suburban communities in the 2050 planning process will have to meet a new minimum uh for density in redeveloping areas. So right now that's five units per acre. It will be seven units per acre moving forward. Um I think you know at a high level if staff feel like we can probably meet that and we'll have conversations about how we can get there. Uh but that is a requirement. I looked at the system statement for Newport and it has projected the population to be 6,000 by 2050. So that's what we have to plan for. Again, I think uh the city of Newport may may be able to even exceed that um depending on how things go here. Lastly, uh the city will and all all communities in the metro have to supply their fair share of affordable housing. The city of Newport will have 169 affordable housing units required. >> What did you say Newport is called? Newport is called >> suburban. >> So, suburban, right? >> Yep. Is that because of our size or is Cottage Grove considered suburban? >> They might be called a suburban edge, I would have to say. >> So, if if we don't fit into the cookie cutter suburban, is it also beholden to us then to make the claim to the council that we can't meet these requirements due to us trying to fit a square hole? >> Um, >> square a square peg in a round hole. >> Yeah. So, that is a great question. What is the community's options if it doesn't feel like that is a fair designation? And I would tell you the city was suburban in the last comprehensive plan update. It hasn't been uh moved up in terms of the community designation. So I don't know Joe if you want to add in there, but um I think that we definitely will be able to to hit that seven units per acre in redeveloping areas. >> Redeveloping. Right. So I just my cons my concern when I hear that is let's just cram every person we can into every square foot and that might not be good for Newport. >> Right. So that's that's where my question stems from. >> Chair and commissioners, I think with the uh 2040 comprehensive plan that was uh undertaken a number of years ago in Newport, there was a big fight because with that system statement uh must have been the 2015 system statement. the uh the Met Council uh proposed or to designate Newport as urban uh which would be uh many many more units per acre. So with the 5 to7 that's something frankly staff is very comfortable with. Um a lot of folks have had challenges that I've heard uh with their 2025 system statements. I think we're going to be just fine here, but I I hear you and we want to make sure we're not pigeonholed or, you know, we're treated uniquely. And I think that's a big challenge when you have a a regional planning system like the Met Council. Uh cuz it is so big and uh gosh darn it, Newport's different and we're special and uh that's Nathan and and my job to make sure that they understand uh you know what's going to work for us. >> Um and there's a process for that. So, I I feel I feel very comfortable with this and I hear you and and I know that's definitely a concern for for Newport and our community. >> Sounds good. >> And I I would also add that this is an average across the whole city. So, in the redeveloping areas of Newport, they'll have to average >> seven units breaker. So, we can go lower in some cases and and higher. And we >> that's 6,500 square feet per lot. Yeah. So, we're we're actively talking and thinking about about um how the city can meet these. And at this point, staff don't have any major concerns. >> And the key word here is redeveloping. >> Redeveloping. Correct. Correct. Or >> if there's undeveloped land that is expected to develop, it would have to be evaluated. But when we hit this point, I I don't know that there will be u much much of that. So, right, >> that is where we are starting from. Got it. Do you have any questions? Okay, we're going to talk about my favorite image. It's called the pyramid of discretion. We talk about it every time because it is very important. >> Uh if you've ever attended a League of Minnesota C's training, and I think you may all have access to that. Um it's a great training. Uh this is a this is definitely an important part of that. And I like to talk about this because it really helps to identify uh what we how we should be approaching land use requests when they come in. And it really depends on how what's being requested. So the pyramid of discretion really shows us, you know, where do we have the least administrative or least uh discretion and where do we have the most discretion in our authority when we're making uh recommendations to the city council. And ultimately where does the city council you know how much authority do they have? So uh administrative items are at the very top. So this is this is where the city has the least discretion. So uh building permits we have virtually no discretion. Does it meet the code? It's approved. If it doesn't meet the code rejected. Very simple. Um when we're looking at site plans we might have a commercial site that's very similar to this. It's, you know, do they do they meet the code with their site plan? Yes. Do they do they not meet it? All right, rejected. Revise it and resubmit it. So, those are the administrative reviews um where you've got a code that's very clear. Um where we go down this pyramid and I'll talk about each of these land use applications specifically so that you all have kind of an understanding of what we're looking for in these cases. uh we get into what are called quas quasi or quasi >> and the just real quick the administrative section here is primarily staff >> it's it's incorporating the code ordinances and making a decision based on written fact right we won't see it >> correct >> so I just want to be really clear on the different areas not only for us but anybody that's watching >> stand yeah absolutely so yeah the top of this pyramid absolutely that is a that is a a a city staff approval or deny It happens every day, you know, without having much to do at a planning commission or city council meeting. These are the this is really the operational side of the city. This is the administration. Joe's team is is reviewing permits and approving them or working with folks on daily basis. Uh quasi judicial decisions. This is where we get into actually applications that the planning commission reviews. This is where the formal process starts. Um, we have three different applications that are uh largely or commonly known as quasi judicial decisions, variances, cups, and subdivisions. I'll talk about these specifically. When we when we say quasi judicial, you can kind of think about yourself as a as a judge. You're kind of making a decision about the application based on the facts or the context of this situation. As we move down, you have the most discretion. So on the bottom in green you have um policy review and policy decisions. So zoning and subdivision ordinances and comprehensive plans. So you think of yourself as more of that legislative authority uh policym this is where you can really um have that broadest amount of discretion >> and that's primarily going to be the city council. Uh yeah, in the planning commission, you know, when you review a zoning code amendment, when you think about maybe changing something or in the comp plan or the code, the city, you as the planning commission can make recommendations based on, you know, whatever you feel like is the most appropriate and it doesn't have to be necessarily through the lens of an application. >> Correct. >> Um I do I want to >> it's the body then that makes that decision. >> Correct. The city council is always going to make the final decisions in Newport. you as the planning commission provide a very important part of this process in recommending how you think they should move forward. Um this is a slide from David our city attorney kind of talking about these as well. Um when we think about legislative uh authority u the city's planning commission can study and recommend changes to the comp plan land use regulations. Um there's also um le more legislative authority when the city is reviewing u whether to purchase sale purchase properties or do things like that. All right, moving on. So I wanted to just kind of highlight this is like a flowchart of our process very very uh generalized here. So uh we start with an application submittal city staff review that make sure it's complete. If it's complete, then you'll see it as the planning commission with the public hearing and the city council will take a look at it after you provide a recommendation and then there's an action. So, I want to talk about variances. Um, variance requests are where this the planning commission really has the least discretion, but it still has some discretion in its review. Um, variances are very specific. These are flexibilities to the city uh city code, the subdivision or the zoning chapter where um so when someone's asking for a variance, there's a specific reason. I need a setback adjustment. I I need to be able to um put my deck in an easement perhaps or do something of that nature where it's a very specific situation. It's well defined. Um the state statute actually has what is is commonly referred to as the practical difficulties test. This is really critical in um staff and planning commission's review. And when I say like we're we're in this like judging the most. Um the practical difficulties test is uh several parts. Generally, you can um it's summarized by the situation not being caused by the person asking for the variance. Like if my um house is uh if I want my house closer to the side lot line, then it can reasonably get, you know, maybe I do do I need to put my addition on that side of the home? Maybe it can go on the other side of the home. Things like that where you're not creating your own difficulty. uh and economic considerations alone cannot be the reason for someone to request a variance. Economic factors are usually, you know, economic things are usually a factor, but they're not supposed to be the premise for the request. I think that when people are asking for variances, it's a really good opportunity for the planning commission and staff to think about your code. If we get a lot of front yard setback requests, maybe we consider changing our front yard setback standards that we don't get so many variances. We've been fortunate to not have a lot of these situations in Newport, but uh I think when communities are getting a lot of variances or even one, it might be a cause to revisit the whole policy. Um we can only grant variances to things that are specific performance standards. Lot area might be an example, setbacks. Usually, it's very measurable. Um, we cannot grant a variance for a use. So, if you want to open up a video game arcade on your single family home property, you're going to have to come in and ask the council for uh for that change of use in the whole in in in whatever zone that you're looking for. >> I don't think we've seen a variance in two years, have we? At our level, >> you saw one for the Red Rock Manor Apartments not long ago. That was a parking lot variance. >> Yeah, >> they needed a variance because they had to redesign. This is a really good example actually. They had to redesign their um parking lot area because number one, it wasn't currently meeting standards and they were making a pretty sizable investment in their property. >> So, they improved their parking lot, >> but when they did so, they couldn't meet all of the city's standards. And so, >> because they were making changes, they were subject to coming into conformance. But the city ended up issuing a variance because they made although they made the situation much better, more conforming, they couldn't get it all the way there. So, we granted a variance for that situation. All right. Any questions about variances? I can keep moving. So, CUPs and IUPs, um, these are also quasi judicial decisions. um cups, you'll know if you've looked at that land use table, which I know you have. Um we have uses that require a cup as C. Um a conditional use permit is quite quite a broad tool. Um in some cases, you might have someone requesting a cup because they want a garage that's larger than 2,000 square feet. Um, you might also have a new a whole new use coming in like um a restaurant with a drive-thru. You know, that might be a cup so that the city can review that particular um request. These are situations where the city intends to approve something with certain conditions or criteria. So, when you see a C, a capital C in your land use table, um you'll want to know that we intend to approve that, but it's going to be with certain certain guard rails in place or certain criteria. Um the city can put conditions on a use to make sure that the uh any negative conditions or impacts of that new use can be mitigated. So, an example of this recently was the um coffee shop drive-thru. So, uh, really exciting new, uh, idea here to have a existing structure turned into a a drive-thru. But there were some issues we had to work through on that property, whether it be screening from the neighbor um, >> start stop times, >> start stop times for the use. We had um, I had to really look hard at the queueing to see, are we going to have traffic impacts on Hastings? I ultimately ended up recommending that we say, "Okay, if we're having queuing on Hastings, we need to time out. We got to talk about this because that's a that's an issue for the city." So, um, we can issue a cup with certain conditions to mitigate issues. Um, one thing is your conditions have to be rational. So, you've heard of the term arbitrary or capricious. Uh, this is what we're trying to avoid. We have to be um you know r there has to be a rational basis for what we're requiring. I would also tell you it should be measurable. You need to think about yourself uh put yourself in staff's position to have to enforce a condition. >> So we you know it's tough for staff when we add conditions that are uninforceable. So we really try to think about that as we move forward. Um, CUPs and IUPs are different in the sense that a CUP runs with the land forever. So, when we issue a conditional use permit for the drive-thru, Caribou, Starbucks, whoever can come in and use that same CUP for the for the coffee shop, um, whoever it runs with the land into perpetuity. An IUP is an interim use permit, and these are term limited. So, they're used more rarely because it's usually best practice to approve a cup um because we don't necessarily intend to limit uses in most cases. Sometimes IUPs do make sense. An example of an IUP was for the Keller Fence site. Uh the applicant came in and said, "I'd like to be I I can't develop my site yet, but I'm working on it, and I'd like to be able to store materials on my property uh before it's developed." And we said, "Okay, an IUP is a perfect tool for this. You'll have the ability to do that for two years, and then you got to remove the materials. It's >> not a storage unit anymore." >> Yeah, exactly. So, you will see these periodically come before you. Um that's kind of the highle understanding. And again, just another uh slide from our city attorney. Um we want to be really careful to apply those regulations as they exist to specific applications. So really think about what is being requested so you can think about what you should require. Uh we need to act impartially based on facts in the application. So the narrative when when people apply for a cup or anything, I am always requiring they submit a narrative. Um, I want them to say in their own words what they're proposing to do for their property and their use so that you can evaluate that when you're looking at this at this. Correct me >> if I'm wrong. Some cities don't do that. >> Not everyone does it. >> They which gives the applicant an opportunity to explain themselves versus just following the letter of the ordinance, zoning, whatever. >> Yeah, >> it's a good thing. I just want to point that out. >> Yeah. And and I think um what what Joe and I try to do with applicants when we know they're going to come in for the something like this is we sit down with them before they apply and say you're you need it number one you need a narrative and your narrative needs to include hours of operation expected employees you know traffic expectations are you going to have trucks coming in and out like we really try to get them to think about their their use and then put that in a narrative form for you. uh chair, members of the commission, you know, anytime somebody's proposing to do a business, we want them in Newport. Uh and I think most importantly, you know, should it not be in Newport, we don't want them to waste their money in Newport. So, we try to get a good understanding of what they're trying to do. And then also, hypothetically, if we feel this might be something even if it's maybe not in the code, because there's always a process. So, what does that look like? And I think this is this is where it gets to it. And I think, you know, best practice, you want to understand, we get curious. And that's where that narrative and that that early meeting is to try to really get an understanding because, um, you know, why not? We want to we want to try to grow Newport. So, >> um, couple of other good points from the city attorney here. Um, we talk about this a lot, findings of fact. So when we get to a point in a cup where we want to make a recommendation to the council, uh the planning commission is asked to provide findings to support its recommendation. The findings might be property is zoned whatever project is consistent with that looks good. Carry on. It could also be we recommend denial because we got issues with traffic. We got issues with maybe the noise or the lights or whatever it might be that you're concerned about. These are findings um things that you want to avoid in this particular type of decision-m um using legislative judgment. Well, I don't really like that the table says that they can do that, so maybe I don't want to approve it. The table says that they can do it, so we got to review it. Exparte communications. So, uh don't uh don't necessarily go around trying to broker a deal with applicants for the city. That's Joe's job. So just make sure that you know you're you're kind of keeping everything above board uh and and not necessarily going around, you know, uh not not a good practice to go around um and just to kind of work with folks independently. Uh try to avoid bias. So you know, try to think of things objectively as a judge would and uh think about what biases you may have and other conflicts of interest that you you could have. If you ever have questions about if you have a conflict of interest, talk to staff. We'll we'll work with you to make sure we can reach. >> And I just want to say something real quick. Out of all four of these, they're all very important, but the bottom two bullet points are something that I think all planning commissions really need to keep in mind when we are having people at the podium. Um when it could touch our neighborhoods, um things like that. We have had a commissioner who has abstained from voting because the rules that we were speaking about would affect him and his business. So, let's keep that in mind when we are making these decisions. Make sure we keep ourselves honest and if we need to abstain. If there's still a quorum with one person abstaining, that's perfectly fine. So, as long as we have three people voting, that's fine. Two people have to abstain, that's the way it is. I would rather us be above board than anywhere near under it. So, I just want to be very clear with this slide. And I will ask staff to provide the slide to everyone's email today or tomorrow so everybody has a copy. Uh, chair, I was going to ask um, and commission, I was going to ask Nathan to maybe email this out to the commissioners and then, you know, any of this stuff and, you know, some of these terms, uh, you know, they are terms of art. So, folks that have been, you know, doing planning for a long time, they're going to know exactly what a cup, IUP is. Frankly, I had no idea until Nathan taught me. >> You call it a cup. >> Um, I call it a cup. I call it a cup or a dish. >> No, I don't. I don't call it edge, but if you have questions or anybody does, uh, you know, you can feel free to reach out to Nathan and myself and we we're happy to talk through any of this. >> Thanks, Joe. Yeah, thank you everyone. >> Um, I'm not going to spend too long here, but um, you know, I think you all know what uh, bias can look like. anything outside of the record of the proceeding proceedings causing someone to lose some objectivity might be personal personal relationships or beliefs. Uh conflicts of interest um you know if you're concerned I I would definitely work with Joe uh to understand where there might be a conflict and if something's present you you may have to disclose that or even refrain from voting. Um just to kind of close out this conversation about these quasi judicial decisions. This is a uh subdivisions is is quite broad. Uh subdivisions can be minor subdivisions which would be someone splitting their lot maybe from one into two or it might be creating a whole new uh residential development. And um that's one thing that we're probably going to be looking at next next month. So this is the creation generally speaking of new uh new residential or commercial lots for development. It's got uh of your applications. It's got the largest impact on your community and you you and people around developments will know this. Um these come with infrastructure needs whether it be water, sewer, roadways, trails. Um park dedication. We have a park dedication requirement in the city of Newport. Um, this is the type of application where you can really where staff are going to be really proposing quite a few conditions for projects that we need to, you know, we need to be mitigating issues or anticipating uh needs of the community. Um, these are permanent. So, once a subdivision is approved and constructed, it's here to stay. So, that's not lost on staff. and we we really work hard to review subdivisions to make sure that they're going to be a good thing uh in the end for the community. I was really tongue and cheek when I put this flowchart together, so you're you're not necessarily required to read it, but I wanted to kind of impress upon the viewer how many steps really there are in the development process, particularly with subdivisions. So, um, the black points are kind of those note, um, those points of action, whether an application or a notice to proceed at the end. The blue boxes are public meetings. And so, you'll see that we go a quite a long time from the developer identifying an opportunity to the planning commission reviewing something. And so what I what I kind of would say about this is that there's a ton of due diligence before things come in front of you, whether it's from the applicant or between the applicant and staff, ultimately leading to an application and then your review. So Joe, I don't know if you have anything to say about this. >> I was just going to say I do not think this is complete at all. Uh and the reason why is you can see maybe like this preapp meeting with partner agencies if necessary. Before that, usually you go all the way back to maybe correspondence, planning staff. That can happen three, four, five times as a cycle, maybe even it could be multiple years. The bigger the project, the more you're going to sloww walk that thing, and there'll be more information and another discussion. I'm thinking about Cherrywood. I'm thinking about Bailey Farms. These things have been going on for multiple multiple multiple years. And we are not at the application process. There can be a concept plan which is an application and then there's environmental review. So even that and then even in between with some of this internal you can have the application but then you're also going to have that cycling. Uh it's you know the bigger the project the more complex it is. Um I think this is uh >> uh this is not complete. I think the other thing is I know this isn't complete which makes it bigger >> but it lends itself to and we haven't been always able to do this as a commission as a whole and I don't know who remembers that and who doesn't but we need to be able to trust that what they're providing us has been gone through over and over again and this isn't all of it which means there's that much work before it comes to us which is why it's good for us to read the packets >> before the meetings to have our questions ready for them >> to try and get answers from them so we're not putting them on the spot. And so this to me says that we can trust our city staff before it gets to us and if we have questions, they know that it's just their job to sit and spin >> on one of these topics. >> We try not to too far, but >> but if you have five or six meetings, you're going to do that to make sure that when it comes to us, a majority of what you think our questions are going to be or what the city's going to ask have been vetted >> and >> which hasn't always been the case. And so I just want to reiterate that that is something that we should recognize as a commission because there's a lot of questions we have I think that are a habit of a creature of habit >> for sure >> and sometimes that can not only waste our time but the hard time or the hard work that you guys do. So I just want to keep that cognizant in our brains that you're not voling stuff up just >> to process stuff. And I I chair and commissioners, I think, you know, most importantly when I know Nathan and I are dealing with anybody that's applying to do business here in Newport is the credibility and our reputation. So if we don't give them uh a good understanding of the process, a good understanding of the likelihood of success or failure, um that's unfair. And and you have we have a reputation. We have credibility as a community and it's incredibly important we keep that with developers. Developers know uh where they can trust to make these uh investments. Businesses, smaller businesses, this could be somebody's life savings and it's incredibly important that we take the time to for that to try and be successful. Uh sometimes you you do take risks and there are times where you don't know the answers, but we try to figure that out. And it's in it's this is incredibly important because you don't want to waste people's time and money. Um and that's where you can destroy your credibility and your reputation very quickly. I feel like thankfully we're at a great spot. You know, the planning commission has had some tremendously challenging and and uh and and and complex issues in the last year, year and a half, uh two years. and and I'm just so excited cuz you know we're we're ready to go for any type of complex issue that could come forward and and we're going to do a good job. So, and I think folks know that. I think businesses know that and I think developers know that. Um so I I'm feeling really good about this incomplete process. >> Okay. So it's there's a long head and a long tail, right? So, um, we have the whole process that leads to something you see and then once the city makes an approval, that tail can really go out quite a ways because now now that just because the developer got something approved by the city doesn't mean they're at their finish line. They might have to go get financing. they might have to adjust their financing or um receive approvals from other government entities or firm up various plans or meet conditions for approval. There's any number of things that a developer may need to do once they get the city's approval to move forward. So, uh just like you kind of see that leadup to the to the review, uh there can be sometimes a little bit of a lag from approval to uh dirt moving. So, and and we as staff try to make sure that uh the you know the dot the eyes are dotted and the tees are crossed, we have the financial security in place or whatever it might be that we need for someone to move forward. So, definitely appreciate the discussion here. And although this started as tongue and cheek, I'm feeling like maybe we Yeah, maybe we need to build it out a little bit more. >> Just think like the the the recirculator, you know, the cuz it's like it's it's so true. I'm looking at this, I'm like sometimes it you know Yeah, >> that's fair. Okay. No, that's a fair crit that's a fair critique. Take that under revisement. All right. Questions so far. >> I'm good. >> All right. All right. So, legislative decisions. I want to talk a little bit about this and then, uh, we'll move into some other best practices for the commission to consider and talk a little bit about Robert's rules. So, um, legislative decisions, we talked about this, uh, primarily for your purposes. This is uh changing the zoning or subdivision ordinance uh which you know a lot about now and comprehensive planning. So generally speaking uh the the flow chart here is similar for people that are applying for these things. A developer might need to apply for both a subdivision and a zoning change. In a lot of cases um they might need a PUD which is effectively the same as a zoning change. So sometimes we're combining both a judic quasi judicial and a legislative decision when we're looking at something. So what are we doing when we are amending our ordinance, our zoning map or the PUD or approving a PUD for a project? We're establishing rules for development and land use. That's just generally the case. What one thing that the planning commission should continually be asking itself is is this request consistent with our comprehensive plan or whatever the guidance is that we have for a particular area. There might be uh a specific planning document like we have for the small area plan. You know, maybe that's a fair question. Uh what are we achieving by approving something or maybe what problems are we solving or creating? Um, inevitably, you know, um, when we change a policy, there there t typically may be unintended consequences. Trying to think about what that could look like. Um, the the city's planning commission and its council ultimately have very broad decision-making authority to change the rules. So, uh, we want to revisit our land use table or we want to take a look at development standards. These are all fair game. You can definitely, uh, legislate how how you'd like to. Lastly, um you know, it's fair to say that these are rules, but they can also be amended. And so, they're not they're not etched in stone. Uh they certainly can be changed. A resoning um is an amendment to the zoning ordinance. Um that should be, you know, thoughtful, but absolutely can be done. and staff endeavor to periodically bring forth housekeeping uh things when we notice there might be some simple fixes to the code issues we might be having uh we'll endeavor to bring those forward to you. Comprehensive plan amendments are definitely less frequent. Um staff typically try to discourage comp plan amendments because um this process is a little bit more strenuous than it is to change the zoning code. Um when we do entertain comprehensive plan amendments, we have to really consider what are we changing and why. Uh this the comp plan is again our guide for land use. So how does changing that help the city? is it uh is a change consistent with the goals that are in the document itself. So if we're looking at a map change um from one thing to another, we might be asking ourselves, is that change supported by our vision? Uh again, you have very wide decision-making authority here. Um, and when I say that updates are less frequent and we don't typically like to recommend them, uh, part of that is because ultimately a when the city approves a comprehensive plan amendment, uh, for for example, um, the East Ridge Heights project, they're asking for a comprehensive plan amendment. Should the city approve that, um, the ultimately the Met Council will also have to review and approve that as well. So when when the city's done with it, uh, it's still not done. Um, typically staff coordinate well in advance of a comprehensive plan amendment with the Met Council to make sure that we're all on the same page. We're reviewing this uh, you know, together, making sure that there won't be issues ultimately when the city puts it forward. >> I have a question. Yeah. >> Okay. So, you were saying that the comp plan um, that we review that every like 10 years, right? >> Okay. So, is that allowed that you can request a change to the comp plan even though it's in between? Okay. >> Yeah. So, uh, cities can and and it's definitely not uncommon to amend the comp plan. We've done it a couple times since the 2040 plan was adopted. Um, you know, we do our very best when the comprehensive plan is created, but uh, we don't always capture everything perfectly. Uh, and in particular with um, new developments or, you know, an evolving economy and and land, you know, development market might change. sometimes it's just hard to predict what's going to happen or what the needs might be. So I would say that you know we do our best but um you you will frequently see comp plan amendments in in certain situations where development might be happening. Okay. All right. Uh any questions? A good break. All right. So I just want to shift gears here to talk about the commission's role. I think you've all done actually a really nice job of like kind of having some of this discussion already. So, the commission's role or the commissioner's role is to help implement your zoning code and your comprehensive plan to make sure you um hold public hearings. You know, make sure that we have a really good uh clear planning process and build trust from the you know, your your neighbors, the residents in the community in the process here. um you make recommendations to city council uh you understand kind of what your role is and are mindful of uh the recommendations you formulate based on your role. So if it's quasi judicial maybe you're make making sure that um the variance isn't you know more than a certain amount or um maybe if you're recommending denial there's very clear reasons. Um, >> I just want to be clear really quick. When you say build trust, the first thing that comes to mind is somebody at one of our meetings say saying that somebody was greasing our wheels. >> So, I want to be very clear when we're talking about creating trust. The trust between us and the residents needs to remain that we're following what's already been placed in front of us, not that we're making a shot from the hip decision based solely on one person or one rule they don't like. And so I want it to be very clear. We are not having anybody grease our wheels. We are here to be the judge and follow what's been put in front of us. And if it doesn't work for them, they have a path to have that fixed. And so that's not our role. And so when we hear things like that, you can absolve yourself of that because we know, at least I know, nobody on this board is having their gears raised. So we can move on. Um and and and when we get applications like for example the cup uh we have in code a pretty clear set of criteria and so you I know the the commission's been really good about these are our criteria to review this against it's zoned whatever this is you know this is why our decision is this way. So go ahead. I think even to kind of clarify and and kind of get to the point here too is is like with Nathan um you know we really do try to understand the narrative of the use and then that allows us to place it and understand what rules and and where that's going to uh apply and maybe the process based on the zoning and then you know it is what it is. Of course everybody's trying to do their best and y'all are the ones who have to make a decision based on the rules that are in front of us today. Uh, and we know the rules, uh, you know, the the ordinances, the zoning code can change. We just went through a massive change and, uh, you know, uh, we're flexible. Things will change again. Um, but that's, you know, that's a standard we got to, we have to meet as a y'all have to meet as a quasi judicial um, board. So, or commission. >> Last thing on this slide is if you have ideas or or questions about things that you think could be improved in the city, and we're definitely all ears. So talk to Joe. Um, you know, bring it up. Uh, send an email if you're thinking about it. You know, these are all Joe's Joe's good. You can call him any time of the day, right? Even on weekends. >> I know that. >> I know that's right. >> I know that's right. >> So, when you're drinking scotch on your lounge chair, >> definitely don't do that. >> You're having your uh, you know, your night cap, think about Joe and give him a call. >> You're welcome. uh best practices, things to things to think about. So, we've already talked about a lot of this. So, you know, really try to help the public and your neighbors understand, you know, what is the commission's role um and what is their role and where do they have ability to engage in the process or who to ask questions to? Um are there, you know, understanding um what the public's concerns are and whether they're applicable or relevant to a request. Um ask yourself you know can the concerns of the public be reasonably mitigated? How could we do that? Um this is we already talked about building trust in government. I think um this is super important with you know uh just generally gestures at everything. Um you know we we really work hard to continue to build trust and it's important. Um I I would also add that you know just ask important questions that you have like when you have that question about the development we're we're definitely u open to answering those questions from you as the commission to make sure that you have enough information and you feel comfortable with making a recommendation and ultimately if you have a question other people probably have the same question. So, I'll I'll >> most importantly, I want the chair and commission to know that, you know, should you have those questions, I think everybody has my number and most importantly, I have Nathan's number and I'll forward you right onto him regardless of the date or time, especially late at night. Uh, he's the expert. So, >> thank you. Thank you, Administrator Hatch. I'm gonna proxy that to Nathan, >> you know, but you know, when you have a question, it's it's probably it's probably a good question and there's probably reasons why it's a good question and and you know, we've talked about how rigorous development can be and so um we definitely will invite questions and making sure that uh we're working through things. Um, we've talked about this in the past, but you know, it's it's definitely okay to ask staff questions in the moment if you have something. Um, you know, if you forgot to ask your question before the meeting, we will understand. You're you're definitely welcome to ask, but we do try to avoid those gotcha moments where um with a little bit of prep before the meeting, we could have easily answered the question. So always try to to work on that and umi continue to provide you the information that you need. So in all fairness uh what are staff's responsibility? What should we be doing? Well, um we need are always trying to be cognizant of the fact that you know we ultimately uh do not make the decisions for the city. Uh that is uh up to the city council and you through your recommendations to them. uh we provide recommendations to you or the council on what action to take based on our understanding of the situation or relevant case law or state statute or whatever it might be. Uh we're always trying to understand very clearly what is the zoning code telling us about the situation that we're reviewing. What does the comp plan have in it for intent of how we should move forward? Um are there historic precedences in the city? um you know in the last several years how have we treated this various uh this situation. Um we might uh have a good insight or ability to understand do we need any special studies for this issue? Um should the developer be providing us better information? Um and what information do we need to impact a recommendation? Um, we always try to make recommendations based on uh the facts of the of the case and our interpretation of whatever your codes are for the situation. And we try to base our interpretations on what is the intent of the code and really try to think, you know, what was the planning commission thinking about when it adopted this? What were its concerns? Sometimes we might even look back at your meeting minutes. We might even remember the meeting because we were there. stuff like that. Um and how do we make um you know mitigate uh situations? So um sometimes we'll even just go out to the site and try to understand you know what's going on here and how what concerns might people have. Our best practices continued here. Uh we I generally speaking uh Joe and I will endeavor to be very transparent with the applicants or people that may have requests and we will tell them uh the likelihood of staff to support a a particular request or um generally speaking we we would like for everything to be approvable that comes in front of you. I mean at the end of the day if you could approve everything on your agenda that's sweet. Um it's not always the case. Sometimes people, you know, are going to move forward and that's absolutely their right. Uh but we try to be very transparent with them about the support and why or why we're not. Um because, you know, these are these are expensive processes for them in terms of time and money. Uh staff uh tend to try to uphold the strictest interpretation of your code. So, uh generally speaking, we want you to be able to play good cop. Um we we try we try to play the strict cop. I won't say bad cop, but strict cop. Uh so that you can um potentially loosen up a recommendation or um allow the council to do that. Uh we uh try hard to make sure that our conditions are enforcable as we've discussed and really put forward. Um if we think a project can be approved, we work hard to provide findings of fact that are um sound from a legal standpoint, but also, you know, they just make sense. They're logical. we might cite code or other precedent or other issues. Um, and then yeah, like I mentioned before, we do endeavor to update our city code when needed. We just got completed with a pretty big overhaul or restructuring that is really going to help us as we move forward to um communicate the city's requirements. Thank you for listening. These are my pets. >> That's Dill and Jack or Jack and Dill. >> Oh, >> Jack's the cat. >> Yeah, Jack's the cat. Yeah. >> Mm- have a jack dog. >> Um, I'll go back. Yeah, this is nice. I like this more than the next slide. >> Chair, uh, members of the commission, I feel like Nathan prefers or has bias in the colors of his pets. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Um, I just wanted to clarify that for the commission. >> That's funny. >> That is funny. It's just, you know, it's just coincidence. >> Hey, >> go into his house. house. It looks like the Beetleju house concrete and marble. And >> that's funny. Okay. All right. Business everyone. Robert's rules of order. >> Um, as you all know, uh, Robert's rules of order is a is a parliamentary procedure. It's it's a very helpful practice to, if you've read the book of it, it's quite dry, but it really helps meetings to run formally. Um and is Robert's rules of order is the kind of typically accepted uh meeting format for most commissions and councils. Um so the planning commission the city has adopted this but kind of in part it's not uh extremely strict. So I don't know if Joey if you want to just mention anything specifically about that. >> I don't even know. I think it's uh I I we generally follow um parliamentary procedures, but I I don't think it's ever officially adopted Robert's rules, and it's not uh been the tradition here. Robert's rules is very formal. Um, and not to say that we haven't been formal in running the commission or or for example the council, but um, certainly not to the extreme level of Robert's rules, but I'd say, you know, uh, 70%. >> Bring out the powdered wigs. >> Yes. I think that should be a thing for you this year. >> Uh, >> okay. >> You're really stepping in it. >> Believe me, it's itchy. So uh some basic principles everyone before we get too squirly. Uh a quorum is probably the most important thing that we have. So three of the five of you have to be present to make a formal decision or recommendation. This is actually really really important for us as we review developments. Um you know these developments have some pretty tough timelines to to deal with. And so when we're asking about quorum it's usually to make sure like hey we're going to have enough people here to make a decision. This also, just to be clear for all of us, means that if you're going to abstain, there still still has to be three voting numbers. So if you're if we're three and somebody abstains, you can still do that, but that means our decision is just tabled until we can get a quorum. So don't let that be the reason you don't abstain because we should abstain if we have biased or anything like that. But keep that in mind because our vote technically won't count. If we think it's going to be an issue, definitely talk about it talk about staff before um all all members on both the planning commission and council have equal um voting rights in their roles. Um only one thing can be discussed at a time. So once a motion is made technically we have to like you know discuss that that motion and write it out on that one and then if it doesn't pass then we can move on to another idea. Uh silence typically will be giving consent. though those who do not vote um will allow for a decision to be made by both those who do. I don't think the planning commission has had this issue in the past. So um I would also say that the chair typically will remain impartial, not necessarily the one to start motions and I think chair uh you've you've done a nice job in that way. Uh so really quickly just a few ideas here for running a meeting. Um making motions is very simple. It's just I move to and then you know fill in the blank might be to approve the meeting minutes, make recommendations to the city council or even adjourn the meeting. Um as we will eventually do tonight if I ever stop talking. Public hearings. I do want to mention this. So um in the past you you've heard from staff you need to make a motion to open a public hearing. Um that >> I think we worked through that one. Um, but that is definitely a discussion the planning commission can have. >> Um, you know, I think to steal to steal Joe's thunder >> when things start to get really emotional. >> Yes. >> I think being more formal is absolutely appropriate. So, >> um, that can be where you might want to utilize that or if you you want to use it all the time, that's fair, too. >> Got it. >> Um, yeah. And plan public hearings. I'll just say this. These are not supposed to be question and answer with everyone who all 600 people who showed up at the meeting. Um it's an opportunity to hear someone's comments and you are not required to provide an answer. Um that being said, if someone asks us asks a question, you're like, "Oh man, that's a great question." >> Um I might be like sitting over here like chomping at the bit to answer it. you'll have to direct me as staff or I'll ask you if you'd like me to answer the question. We try not to have a back and forth and um and that helps to pro protect the city legally. >> I think unfortunately um you know when I've seen situations like that is if you'll we'll have folks that come to the meeting and they're here to make a point it feels like sometimes versus kind of just comment on a proposal. Again, we're never making we're rarely making the decision. uh we're not at the planning commission level. It's just a recommendation. This is the opportunity really for folks to come in and give feedback. And if that feedback is I think this is the most terrible thing in the world and I hope you recommend council do does not approve this. That's fair. Uh and we'll take that. That's part of it. Um but to >> Sounds like a sentence with a period at the end of it, not a question mark. >> Correct. Um, and I I think, you know, for folks and and you know, community members, residents, businesses that are listening to this, I think most importantly, if you do have questions about the details, we're here. Nathan's here often at city hall. We can meet with you one-on-one. We always try to, you know, take uh, you know, give people feedback on their questions as best as we can. Um, and that's that's us doing our job. And that is an expectation, frankly, from y'all. And for any resident or business or applicant, we we want to be helpful. Um, again, that gotcha moment or trying to po prove somebody wrong or something like that, it doesn't make us look good. And um, you know, frankly, a lot of times it's not fair when folks try to come and, you know, really put it to somebody. With that said, there's also many times where there's a a great point and we have that answer and sometimes you can clear the air, too. So, sometimes that's super helpful. Um, so but I I know that can be a little, you know, we've had our ups and downs with that. So, >> and you're always welcome to, you know, say, you know, please circle back with staff after the meeting. You know, we're we're definitely happy to answer people's questions and give them our card or whatever it is. So, this will be more helpful to you as a print out and not for me to talk over. Yes, >> there's a lot of options under Robert's rules about a menu of options about how you can move in in any direction. Um, so tableabling. Here's something. Okay, you can table an item. Um, >> I moved to recess. >> I know. I never seen >> Yes. >> Here we go. I'm gonna I'm kickball and >> play kickball. >> Yes. >> Do I have a second? >> A second. I'm going to let you all read this and let us know if you have questions. >> Thank you. >> That was good. >> We talked about public trust uh a little bit about exparte communications. These are off therecord conversations. Uh so let's say an applicant tries to divide and conquer by reaching out to all of you individually. Um, I would definitely in your shoes recommend informing the applicants that any correspondence should be with you should be during a public meeting or even better direct them to staff. Uh, so if you get questions from someone, uh, that that would be the recommendation. Um, we've talked about bias, try not to lose objectivity, uh, conflicts of interest, talk to staff if you have questions. Um and so I'll end with a slide for uh for you to provide us with staff as feedback. So um >> what areas I just want to mention real quick? >> Yeah. >> Is that if any three of us are communicating about any city matters at any given time? >> Yeah. >> Is technically a quorum and it is not allowed unless we are here and it is a scheduled meeting for public to review what we're saying. So I had a conversation with Maria yesterday. Didn't involve y'all. Perfectly fine. Um, not perfectly fine for me, Tammy, and Maria to have a meeting about city matters or a party. >> But can we have a party as long as >> you can have a party, just don't talk about city stuff. It cannot be anything that's before that. That could be a decision for the the commission. And then this is a tricky one is uh let's say uh Tammy has a conversation with Mike and now Tammy knows what Mike thinks and then Tammy turns around and has a conversation with Maria. That is also a violation. So, you know, generally feel free, you know, if you want to have a conversation with one, um, but when you go beyond that, uh, that that can be treacherous and it can be an ethical violation. >> So, just don't talk to them. >> Yeah. We're just not friends. We're just Yeah. No, we just don't want to wait into those waters because >> So, don't talk to Brandon. >> As people, it's super easy to do that. It's super easy just to, you know, but um so in in reference to these four topics, if I can just go out here, >> does anybody have an appetite for having the meeting at 5:00 p.m. versus 5:30? >> Anybody? And I'm open to keeping it at 5:30. I'm looking to close the gap for myself. So, it's a little bit selfish, but if nobody else agrees or if only couple agree, I'm perfectly fine keeping it at 5:30. I just want to put that out there. It's something we've talked about. >> I think it gives a better buffer cuz like I my office is in Eden Prairie and then >> car accident away >> 530 does >> well and community like when we have open >> Nope. I think that's those are all good and that's exactly the debate or the questions I wanted. So I'm fine keeping it at 5:30. >> And it is PTO night tonight also. And uh >> Oh >> yeah, >> PTO. >> My wife said the PTO >> teacher organization. >> Okay. I don't have kids. >> So, okay, I'm fine with keeping it there. We don't even have to talk about it if we're going to leave it. So, if we're leaving it, that's perfectly fine. It's just something I think uh we've been asked to switch days. We've been asked to switch times. So, I'm going to put out my little voucher for 5:00, but we'll keep it at 5:30. >> Yes. And no later. Like, I know that people have said that it's hard, >> but yes, >> to make it correct, >> but 5:30 is enough. And just for those people to know, they can send in their questions or concerns the same and have them read out loud during said public hearing or during the meetings. So that is an option if people can't make it. We are not here to limit their options. We're here to give them >> more than sometimes we can. Um any other questions about information? And I think personally that it's been fantastic. The agree the 360 in a couple years that we get a lot of information. You guys do a lot of stuff. It's >> sometimes hard to digest it all, you know. Thank you last December for taking that three public hearings in a day. I mean that takes a lot especially from city staff. So um I don't have any other recommendations on here. So, if anybody else does, um, please don't don't stay quiet. And >> it's okay. Okay. To say that staff don't make sense. >> Yeah. >> The emails that you send make sense. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> You're cognizant and well put together, sir. >> Yes. >> Um, but I don't have anything else. And I know you're new, so feel free to lo lob these over whenever you hear them or whenever you think about them. >> I do have one uh request, and maybe you already do this. Um, but anytime you have something that you're like, "Oh, this is referred to in statute or code," if you could include that citation so you could look it up >> or linkable. So, you click the statute and it just pops up on the web. >> A link. >> The other thing, I guess, to that point is I would ask that you guys send a link to the exact spot to the League of Minnesota Cities where these trainings are. I'm not going through a government website to try and find it, but I will gladly do it if it's volied up to me. I just got that Newport city website is easy to navigate. You go to Minnesota and it's not. >> So you guys can do that. I think that would help our new member as well as everybody else for a refresher. So >> I think annual training we good with that we move on from number six. Okay. >> Uh >> no motion. >> No motion needed. >> Unless you want to formally recommend the annual training to the city council. Yeah. >> You mean Wonder Woman? >> I I bet they would love that. >> There's a few members. Um >> uh >> now I'm in a hot water. >> Uh so um uh chair and commissioners. Um there there are uh requirements to discuss the chair position of the planning commission. It is something that y'all would make uh amongst yourselves. It's been a number of years uh since this discussion has occurred, but wanted to put it on the agenda. Again, this is kind of our annual training, annual meeting. Uh we do have a new commissioner here tonight. Uh but wanted to open that up for discussion and you know, apologies on behalf of the staff. I think this was a requirement that should have occurred earlier, but it's been a number of years and some change, so we wanted to make sure it was on the agenda for tonight. Um but uh up I'm just opening that up for y'all's discussion. I'm gonna really leave it open up to y'all. I don't >> I think that you're doing a great job. I think you should just stay. >> I don't think I throwing my own name out there is a good advantageous thing for me to do. So, if you guys would like me to stay on >> Yeah. I think that I think that you're doing a great job and I don't see a problem with you. >> Motion >> motion to keep Brandon as chair. >> A second. >> Second. >> Tied to the chair. Either way, >> all those that all those that approve >> I >> Well, I appreciate that. Um, do we also need to do a vice chair or is that uh is that a requirement? >> I think we all know who the vice chair is. >> Well, if it's I just want to make sure it's been I know it's been more than two years since we >> Congrats, Maria. So, um, and as we move on, I really want you guys to know if it's something that you guys want to do, I'd be happy to work with you guys, and it it's it's taken me a long time to understand it all. And it's a process. And so, I'm not trying to say it's hard, >> but I'm not trying to say it's easy either. So, but I would be happy to mentor or I know city staff would be happy to train um, in any way I can. Just whatever I can do for Newport. And and kind of along those lines, I just want to say thank you to staff because when you do give us kind of a sample um re recommendation and and you know when when like for example if I do have to fill in like you know I'm not really aware or um experienced you know in in the chair role. So it's very very helpful to have that sample language. Um so thank you for that. >> Okay. >> Appreciate the feedback. I think we all like that even there when sometimes it gets a little bit >> bag of cats everywhere, including everywhere. >> Well, >> it's just hard to keep focused on what we're actually, you know, bringing it ever back down to center and then talking about what we need to talk about. It's helpful. >> Got it. >> So, anything else? I don't think there's anything there. Uh, I imagine somebody's going to want a motion to adjurnn. >> A motion to adjurnn. >> Okay, we've got our motion to adjurnn. Second that. >> And we've got a second motion to adjurnn. All those in favor of adjourning? >> I >> I. All those opposed. The February 10th commission meeting is adjourned. >> Cool.