god indivisible with liberty and justice all right up next we have the approval of the agenda i my move approval second i didn't have well actually i did have one edition okay well sorry about it uh i just under new business i would uh like to just add a quick update on the oak park heights condo project on the what coke park heights condos i think it's called the walkabout oh yeah sure okay so if we have can we get a motion okay so i'll solve i'll move that amended with that update added to new business second all in favor aye aye opposed carries unanimously all right next up we have the approval of the march 2010 2022 planning commission meeting minutes uh i reviewed them i didn't notice any changes uh myself did anybody else nope i didn't no connection we approved the agenda from march we have a motion second and a second all in favor opposed carries right now we are on to department commission liaison and other reports uh i guess we can start um yeah i don't really trying to think eric what was that the last console uh it was pretty light on the agenda yeah no there's that minnehaha transport was on that yeah that was approved by just looking at the other notes from rbd yep that was that would have been the only thing that went from the months ago that was a few months ago yeah that was march the council is wrapped up i think you know we were disappointed in the outcome of the legislative session as it relates to the city of oak park heights is asks um the we had three potential pieces of legislation for um the senate and the house one being our capital request for to extend utilities down to the king plant area ultimately the state did not pass a bonding bill so basically essentially nothing was funded mike you don't you'll know more than i do about that stuff and um and then the other items related to energy transition fundings for cities that um as as these power plants close there's a funding mechanism for them to make a softer landing as as a revenue offset for lack of a better word and the last piece was requiring excel energy to provide a closure plan by i think it was december 20 december 31st 2025. ultimately that none of those made it into statute or were approved as best of my knowledge the and i'll shut up in a second but the the public utility commission's order which approves the rate structures for excel energy which we all pay did does have some requirements for excel to provide some known dates of of closure and remediation so it's narrow for now we don't know what that is but ultimately there will be some meetings of the community over the next two or three years so we'll see what was the uh issue with the funding was because they were arguing over how they were going to spend the surplus right why they didn't fund any of those you know what they're yeah like sorry you haven't designed a government you have different desires of those funds and whether those are good or bad for our city we would have pre appreciated the 5 million but you know i'm sure there's other issues there yeah and i think the bonding bill there was a fair amount of agreement if not full agreement between the house and the senate and the governor's office on the bonding package however it was the budget bills oh that were the supplemental budget it's not a normal budget year for the state next year will be our will be the normal budget year but uh that's where i think some hold up was was there was um wanting the the tax bill and some of the omnibus uh spending packages to go through and then they'd bring up a bonding package well ultimately they couldn't come to the house in the senate couldn't come to an agreement uh on that and they wouldn't hear a bonding bonding package so off the table it sounds like they were talking back talking yesterday the house and the senate and the governor's office about whether or not they would still entertain a uh special session and right now they are talking specifically about bonding so just because they had a fair amount of agreement but we'll see if that goes anywhere it's just talk is that about them not wanting to give up their leverage and do the bonding thing while they're still arguing about other stuff yeah yep it had to do with it it had to do with the the large surplus that's why they put put in a spending pack spending bill and that's what's holding up the because normally this wouldn't be a uh this would be a budget here it would just be specifically bonding so that would have actually been better for us if they wouldn't have picked up but the the surplus that the state had going in for fiscal 23 and then looking forward to fiscal 24 and 25 was about 15 billion dollars and when you when you get a big piece of the pie like that everybody wants a piece of the pie and that's where the but the budget bills started to come out and then they couldn't agree on how they were going to spend that money so so that's all we have huh um eric i wonder if you could give us an update on that i i talked to you about it today at the park party in the park but that construction norell avenue i think is impacting a lot of people yeah it's it's a it's a difficult thing there's no there's no great way to to solve that construction while it's being built it's under load if you will so having traffic go through that zone while it's under construction was just not feasible so thus we all have to deal with these detours in our community um the good news i think is that contractors so far as far as our corridor city engineer and our public works directorate even as maybe we all can see they're moving ahead moving relatively quickly the base course is in in many places if you're right on the front end right by 36 you'll see a lot of curving in so they're about three weeks ahead of schedule right now okay um what does that mean in the end who knows you know um on this date there were three weeks ahead of today right but like all contractors they're dealing with with labor tight labor markets materials shortages one of our one of the i don't know what company is but essentially the telecommunication i don't think it's centurylink or one of their subsidiaries is responsible to move fiber optic well they can't move fiber optically they don't have the material so that causes delays so it's just one more thing but we press ahead and we hope to be done with the connection between 58th speaking on a turn and and and 36 about mid-august so at least you will be able to go north and south through there the arms will be closed still but so far so good we all deal with it every day 3.6 million dollar project all right uh anything else under this item or you're ready to move on to the visitors and public comment looks like it all right so this is uh this next item visitors public comment this is an opportunity for the public to address the commission with questions or concerns that are not on the agenda and we do ask that you limit any comments to three minutes is there anyone in the audience who would like to come forward seeing none we will move on to our public hearings and first up we have chase bank and we usually start off with scott yes thank you mr chair members of the commission uh we do have an application for a planned union development uh amendment uh conditional use permit for the atm drive-through uh and signage and design center site plan review it's for chase bank at 5907 neil avenue north uh this was the former burger king um the building will be remodeled and updated uh with a drive up atm and not a drive up window so you wouldn't just be the atm not a uh actual person behind a window a type of a banking situation um the pioneer development conditional use permit for the burger king was approved in may of 1999 as part of the oak park pond's development so the kowalski's uh development was that of that development interestingly enough at that point we um zoned it uh planned your development commercial planned you in development our pd commercial plan um development the development is approved as a pud and in order to change that we have the app can go through a plan your development amendment conditional use permit is also required for the atm drive through um there is about uh adequate space for seven vehicles in the stacking lane and a bypass lane is provided really nothing with this site is really changing they're using the same drive through lane same directional flow uh that was present for the uh burger king uh parking and access for the site will not change they are uh paving and re-striping uh the lot obviously then the setbacks are not changing either pedestrian access they are adding a sidewalk from the trail on neil avenue to the uh building sidewalk as i said parking lot will not change landscaping we have a review by the city arborist on that you'll note there's some additional materials that were passed out tonight we the arbors had recommended that the landscape be revised so that the seven ash tree trees on the site be uh be changed again with the ash borer issues and they have provided that with with the changes to that to that plan uh lighting um they also have uh uh full specifications and a waiting plan uh which is consistent with the the requirements of the ordinance uh trash recycling will all be within the building mechanical screening with their parapet design other changes to the building again and i believe the burger king complied with that pretty well too you did not see the mechanical equipment no changes with the grading drainage and erosion control the new plans also as we move to signage the old plans that you received in your packet did not have the location of the monument sign the new plans do it's up in kind of that northern portion of the uh the site if you want to refer to is that as you come off the entrance um uh you see a a a rectangle shown for that uh for that sign so they are doing a a sign and those plans are provided in those new materials and they are compliant also with our at least the design the size and so forth with the requirements for signage they the elevation plans for wall signage indicate the chase name with the logo on three sides of the building and just the logo on the south facade even though it says chase and then logo we have in the past allowed that as one sign again they're integrated uh enough uh uh i wouldn't consider those as two signs each um this ordinance would allow 1200 square feet of wall signage and they're compliant with that the the ordinance does only allow for uh three signs on three separate facades they have requested that force sign that's consistent with other businesses freestanding businesses like this that we have allowed through a review by the appliance commission city council that additional force sign sign illumination will have to require with the standards it appears as though uh the signs will um will be internally lit and not an issue with um lighting especially at night there's a review of the uh architectural guidelines uh there's a materials board that they provided he jumps a rock for you to look at um the design of the building transparency is not changing uh again the building isn't changing uh drastically uh with this and uh overall in cases such as this uh we've we've allowed um uh you know allow them to make reasonable changes and improve the appearance of the building obviously we're very happy that this burger king that has been empty for a long time is now being occupied so with that um the uh conditions placed at the end of europe of the report would stand and i wouldn't suggest with this new material these new materials any changes to what uh what we've recommended any questions the applicants are here so we can ask questions of that also um i just want to make sure it says on page 24 it says there's a modular teller station i'm assuming because there's none outside this is inside right i'm not i'm sorry jen on page 24 it shows a teller station is because you said there's no telling oh it's outside it's all inside it's all yes it's all inside and then the sign is there are all the signs on the building are is there something that's off like say on the off the boulevard or something is there any sign it just will be the one freestanding sign that i mentioned and that is also in those materials he says it leads to coordinates i think that's my only question any other questions for staff otherwise i think we are happy to have the applicant yeah the presentation public hearing here uh so i will open up the public hearing at 6 22 and we can invite the applicant if you're present to come up and address the commission and answer any questions good evening commissioners my name is scott rosman i'm with bergman associates we're the architects for the building um i agree with everything that uh that scott has mentioned about the project we've been working with the planning commission to complete the package and make sure everything is uh to the standards of the town we think it's a an appropriate building uh appropriate materials for the area and are real happy to um you know be taking over a building that's sort of an eyesore now and and yeah spiff it up with some nice materials and uh you know bring it back to life as well as the site itself that's a little aged at this point so spiff that up and you know bring it back into uh you know a good uh good character so are there any questions that i can answer no i just want to say that from my point of view i think this is an awesome thing to happen that building's been sitting there looking ugly for so long but you know i uh happy that somebody's gonna use it and it and it's an upgrade i think from what it was being used for before with the traffic that it generated and the issues that i'm imagining happen with a fast food restaurant right so yeah yeah typically it's a significant reduction in the the trips well when the building's empty there's no trips but right well there's probably just as many trips when it's empty than when you guys are in there because um you know they got to make sure that somebody's not breaking the windows and all that kind of stuff so the police were probably keeping an eye on the building but they probably will go see you about as often as they had to do that which isn't hardly ever so yeah i'm happy with it any other questions for the applicant nope nope all right well thank you very much thank you all um with that uh buddy in the audience one question about the it looks like they're parking this whole daycare place though so this is all their parking that goes there they have shared parking oh they're keeping the same agreements that they had prior to that they're honoring the existing agreements right the overall operands development has a shared parking agreement so you know and one thing about that that shopping center was built at a time when well we still have those those requirements but there is a lot of parking there there's more than enough parking to be provided for anything that goes in there so no i think we appreciate the materials being updated too yeah not update the external that building and probably still get something in there but it would be nice to have it cleaned up and banks typically look a lot better than fast food restaurants do exactly under operation anyway it's there all right anybody from the audience that wants to if there's no other questions from the commission um are there any uh anyone in the audience who would like to address the commission or ask any questions seeing none i would entertain a motion to close i'd like to move to close the public hearing i have a motion second and a second all in favor all right hi opposed i think that was unanimous so all right uh any additional comments one thing i would probably just looking at the language and then based upon the uh additional materials uh condition eight reads all signs should be designed to comply with the zoning orange requirements for internal illumination let's also put sides so that um again it's a catch-all we usually put within our within our approvals sometimes what we see at the plane commission city council level when they come in for the building permit uh may change you know they have some different ideas so we just want to make sure that you know what's approved uh when julie issues the sign permit the building permit uh that we have that condition that says oh you know what you need to re-look at that new sign package so perfect probably will not won't happen but it's just a catch all the way all right so just adding and size to condition eight yes all right with that i would unless there's any more uh comment or conversation i would entertain a motion i moved to accept the staff's proposal with the changes noted all right a second emotion in a second all in favor aye opposed unanimous all right thank you thank you and i believe uh this will go before the council oh goodness on june 28th 28th so that will be where the actual official decision gets me all right uh up next we have uh another public hearing regarding uh popeye's louisiana kitchen restaurant uh and again we will start with scott thank you the application has been made for a plan u and development uh general plan a conditional use permit for a drive-through restaurant and and signage as well as the design standards and site plan review it's at 135 23 60th street north this lot was previously part of the eagles club property situated at highway 36 on norrell avenue north construction going on there now with the improvements to that intersection the site was always planned for two buildings um one of which was the panera bread which is obviously in place uh with the drive-through and that was approved in june of 2018. the second lot to the south at that time was proposed for just a retail um location uh but is now obviously proposed for the popeye's restaurant the plenum development allowed for multi-building shopping restaurant development with joint signage access and parking again we have one of those planning development situations with the uh the joint uh parking uh site is zone b for a limited business district um we're okay with the comprehensive plan um right through that uh a conditional use made has also been requested to allow for a drive-through uh for the popeyes um setbacks again we're dealing with the pioneer development and there can be some flexibility a 40-foot front yard setback would be required for narelle avenue they're at 38 but again with the planning and development and the site dynamics and so forth the fact that the parking was built for um you know at the front of this restaurant was built as part of the panera development again does restrict their side a bit but there should not be an issue with that uh in my opinion uh with that uh setback as well as there's uh the drive-through lane uh set back to the south property line at the nearest point is 10 feet and you know i'd ask that you guys comment on those setbacks if you have any issues with this new construction too it asks the fire marshal to look at it for emergency vehicle access the city engineer did not have any issues with again the drive-through and the configuration of the drive-through with with the existing lot parking is is more than adequate [Music] the site would require 38 parking spaces the proposed site plan indicates a total 83 spaces 44 lots on lot 1 and 39 stalls on lot 2. again the 38 is for both the um for both buildings because we've used the shopping center classification for this the popeyes buildings were designed with dual order lanes for the drive-through uh lanes would allow for vehicle at each order board and four cars in the stacking area um i assume when this opens we may have some some backup issues again the anticipation of a new fast food outlet uh but i think as once that settles down uh this meets the the basic requirements and the fact that the fast food restaurants now employ those two order boards things seem to move a lot faster in the old days you would have the mcdonald's with the you know or or the worst i think you think that the worst i think i ever saw was the krispy kreme in maple grove when they would be you know for miles they'd be lined up when they first of all the line's always faster nobody knew why right uh so again i think that design uh seems to work there probably will be some stacking into the uh into the parking area probably busy times uh but again with those uh that situation and we could have the applicant comment on that i mean there no better their operations uh as far as uh that those situations they want people to move through uh their system quickly also plans don't indicate the area for snow storage there probably was a coordinated plan as part of the panera but [Music] you know we should indicate where the snow is to be stored city arborist has done a review of the site lighting the lighting plans are all consistent trash enclosure there is a a design for that that met requirements a mechanical screen with any new development we always put the condition on that the mechanical equipment should be screened uh and provide accordance with the uh zoning orange requirements grading drainage erosion control and utilities again really no issues with that the plans indicate one monument sign relatively small a blade type of sign that is that will meet the requirements uh one thing though we should discuss in a little bit more detail is the wall signage ordnance would allow a total of 150 square feet of wall signage they have a number of signs on each of the facades when you look at the elevations of it here it's going to pick that up for us you know for instance we have always considered in opera kites things such as the chicken being assigned popeyes and then louisiana kitchen uh we would consider that as one sign similar to what we did with chase with the logo in that but the chicken is is off on its own um that would be a sign can we bring up another facade eric just an example one right before that but yeah so we've got you look to the left um you got on that lower facade and you you essentially have three or four signs however you want to look at that we would allow one sign for facade uh the the rear that faces uh norrell avenue that's the upper that does not have signage what i've said in the report again to give them some flexibility they can decide which sign they want in each facade and on one facade they can have two signs but in order to be consistent with what we've done in the past through conditional use permits and allowing more than three signs uh wall signs and one per facade i think we can be a little bit more flexible on that but again the the multiple signs per facade you know there you've got two um you know we're just gonna it's my opinion it's my recommendation that that we be consistent with what we've done for others and just do one per person except for that one facade if they decide to put two and then nothing at the rear sign illumination again the standard condition would place on that [Music] one thing uh two if you can bring up that those facade diagrams or maybe the one that shows the rear of the structure i don't want those if they did maybe just in the i think i have that scott uh right there that's that's that'd be good one thing that we worked a lot with uh with panera is uh a lot of times with these fast food restaurants they always put the rear that are building on the most visible street uh i guess what we're asking as part of the conditions is to dress up that facade a little bit use some of the other design elements they've used on the other facades it is clearly probably one of the most visible facades of their and it's just a plain facade so we would uh again similar to what we asked for panera they upgraded that facade and that was even more visible because it's right on highway 36 but that is one of the conditions that we've added other than that i think you know the building is extremely attractive it uses a lot of materials um colors i think it's all um all very positive i just we would ask for a little bit a little bit more on that on that rear facade so with that um i think i'll i'll shut up for a while and let you guys ask questions i know you won't all right because we're about to ask a bunch of questions do you have any questions for steph i got a couple but i'll let others go first in case they ask them better well i i've got a list here and they're not these are not things that i think are wrong these are things that i have questions about um the number one the ownership of the adjoining properties and um the reason i the reason i ask that is it's one of the requirements and it's not listed anywhere it's not on here anywhere in the in the information and so i went on washington county and uh and looked at the ownerships myself and i was surprised to find that this property the triangle property to the south is in the is in the name of walmart and the city owns everything else and i'm wondering if that's something that is an oversight on washington county's park does does the does the city think that they got that from walmart or did you just get easements from them the it's a square parcel it's it's a chicken it's actually a try yeah you're right it's a rectangular parsley i'm sorry we but it's right where the where the roundabout is we we have i forget the mechanism under which we bought it it's pretty sure we have easements um we yes we have easements i can email you i'm sure i've done a bunch of developments before and with some of these big corporate people you can't get so you get a right of entry and move forward on your project while they're fighting with their attorneys and all that kind of stuff and i'm assuming that the city is going to end up with the ownership of that after the roundabout's in there it'll be a little triangle just south of this property up to the roundabout and i'm assuming the city is going to own that it well it should be that one of my minds i can't envision what you're specifically talking about um yeah if you look at the the one that's the the highlighted one from it's this piece right here this is why i call it a triangle right now it's a rectangle yep right here and these right now this one is in the name that is walmart that is they still on it we have a we have a we have a transportation drain utilities over it okay but the reason the only reason why i bring it up um from a practical standpoint has to do with the setback and you know that piece is too small to do anything with i'm not worried that walmart's going to want to apply for uh i don't know so it's to the south where we've got that pipeline set back bus stop isn't it yeah but yeah okay yeah and that's one of the reasons i didn't make a big issue of it is because that's not going to be developed and i that's what i was assuming i just wanted to bring it up so that people are thinking about it the next thing was the the building orientation the building elevator the locations aren't labeled on the plans and i i probably spent 15 minutes trying to figure out which one was the west and which one was the north which just because they weren't labeled and and then i tried to look at the plan and look at the elevations and they just weren't i finally figured it out but anyways um on that same plan that we were talking about where they took this the city's overall traffic plan and they call it um popeye's roadway exhibit um there are a bunch of dead-end trails and and i just wanna i'm sure they're not dead end trails but they look like it to me so i'm just hoping that somebody can answer you know it looks like um well immediately south it looks like that one dead ends for some reason and then goes across the street across the to the south um uh tim yeah it's up here it's great okay so um so just to the just to the um south of the proposed building the proposed property on the east side there's a trail coming down then it stops but then it goes across the to the south cross of the road to the south same thing if we go over to the west behind the uh what is it that stillwater dental building and the old mccormick's their trail is coming along and then it stops but it goes across the street um i assume there's reasons for that the one on the north side of the panera i assume that's connecting to the existing trail is that what that i mean that's why these trails are shown that they just stopped because they're going into previously existing yes okay yeah they're going into existing traffic patterns or industrial patterns and that's what i assumed but i just needed to bring it up because it isn't it isn't just explained very well and i i don't think anybody was trying to make dead-end trails and i'm sure that i mean it just looked like it to me when i first looked at it that's all um the east elevation the number four um the east elevation the same thing that you came up with i i think it's plain and i think it's the first impression and granted this is an unusual property and you know the panera basically is backwards on that lot and so that's going to make this one backward on the lot you don't normally have the service side of the building facing the busiest street in town but there's really nothing that can be done about it but i agree with what you're saying about i mean just with building materials jazzed up i think what they did on panera didn't they put some fake windows in and i mean they put a couple windows that they're not really windows and they're right but it's some opaque windows and they changed the building materials a flat surface yeah what we're asking is this beef the next item i had was the potential remnant to the salt but that's not a remnant so um and then i'm hoping that when the applicant has an opportunity to talk that they'll tell us a little about popeye's restaurant and the reason i ask is i don't know anything about them never been in one never there aren't any in this area and so i'm hoping that you know what do they sell and what you know yeah we'll see so i have another question what does stillwater dental in that building say about the additional traffic driving basically right beside their building because that traffic flow is going to be within inches of that building the way that road's set up and it's going to be a thoroughfare yeah so the owner of stillwater [Music] dental that building um doctor i can't remember her name her name [Music] and trent mayberry who is the developer of this site they have cross easements um for this and they're and they were in agreement at the time of the initial planning of this so they anticipated this being a second commercial zone on the front end we've heard no negative comments was that before we closed off the frontage road though because now with the frontage road being closed off this is your right turn to go back out to the main drive but they also have the or the roundup because you can't get out any other yeah but the roundabout there's no way to get to the roundabout you're going to come on the front of the drone you're going to take her left or right we go through that parking lot to get back to the roundabout well we do know this plan was developed this layout for our road was developed in conjunction with that discussion at the time about 2017 2018 or something in that neighborhood the city actually exchanged lands with the developer at the time the city used to own land on the north and of the panera site and we exchange it for land on the south end of the [Music] proposed popeye site i hope i have that um so all of that was done in development of this so that all the parties knew when those cross seasons were signed that this was the plan we had a number of public hearings all those things before could they change their mind sure but thus far we've not heard any meaningful complaints or concerns from um and they would have received the public hearing notice if they would have they're probably here tonight um uh as far as i know i'm just concerned because if you're coming down 60th going east you're going to take a right you're going to scoot through that property and you're going to take a another right to get back to 36. well if we have people purposefully cutting through there i'm sure we'll get a call and then we'll try to deal with it from there but it's going to happen i don't know it could happen i think one way to address that would be to you know stop the direct cut through if those owners wanted that of the future and then make people really wind their way through the parking lot a little bit you know if you're going to the restaurant that might be one thing but if you're just looking for a simple cut through i don't think you will but this is there i think the majority of the people are going to come through the roundabout the backside unless you're coming because you've got to go i think the minority of the traffic is going to come from the commercial side into that uh cul-de-sac and then into panera i think yeah with all the trap 80 percent is going to come up the call or up the roundabout in the popeye side i would think so i'm i'm convinced that um well first of all that little cul-de-sac the illegal cul-de-sac that's on the north that no one would be able to build except the city um that that sorry i don't know how it slipped out somehow that that cul-de-sac is not people will only drive into that once if they drive into it they'll only drive in there once and they'll go well this will make any sense and they'll drive back out and i think when it comes to traffic flows i think what probably is going to happen is people are going to come down that that um i want to get that picture in front of me i guess we got it up there but um right now people are used to driving on that northern frontage road if you want to call it that nobody's going to use that anymore because all the access now is going to come from the new frontage road which is on the south so they'll go up there the first couple times and cut through but after that they're going to they're going to go whatever business they're at they're going to go to the south and get on the frontage road that'll take them directly onto the roundabout and so that they can get out they're not going to drive east on the north road and then come through the cut-through to get down to that except the very first time they do it my concern is you got to go back to kruger lane though backed by menards because is it easier are they going to turn right go through traffic to get to the roundabout or are they going to take shortcuts well if there's not a roundabout yet it's not a right turn but after those after those after this thing is built um the frontage road is now the road on the south not the one on the north and really no one's going to drive up there unless you're coming from kowalski's um you're going to turn you're going to turn out on uh you turn right you're gonna turn you're gonna take two you're gonna go right left you're gonna take the trigger lane and get so they want to get to that roundabout so they can get out to 36 and the fastest way they do that is on this new frontage road i mean that's the way it's designed and i think the traffic is going to follow it i mean they'll only come if if they come off a krueger or for um kowalski's and come roaring down this road on the north end there they're going to get to the little fake cul-de-sac and then they're going to go cut through and the next time they're gonna say well i'm not doing that i'm gonna turn at menards and i'm gonna go through and get right on the road that takes me to the roundabout because that's the only way to get out that's a good hope so i think that people will do it once maybe they'll maybe some people like me that don't get it right away might do it twice but i think after that the frontage road is going to work the way it was designed because now all of the traffic is going to go south well it's under construction so we'll know soon yeah i guess i'm just looking at the looking at the design it's just a concern because there's lots of entrances and exits onto that new frontage road it's not like it's it's not set up like a front of drone it's set up as a parking lot road with lots of lines of traffic's going in and out it's not a true frontage like the existing frontage road is and i can see during heavy loads of traffic i don't want to drive by all 12 of those spots when i can skip them all and cut through the locals will learn that yeah give it give it a whirl i bet i bet you'll go the other way after that it'll be interesting to see i mean there's gonna be a lot of traffic on that front the way it's designed with all those yep it's an ounce yep so is there gonna be stop signs here you're gonna get a lot of traffic going through here to the menards going through there to menards and all those entry points are there going to be stop signs there uh at the as they come to the road yes they'll be steps they won't just be able to well right this will be the main thoroughly just don't you just don't know until that traffic starts but there won't be stops for these people going through people coming in that's what i'm saying just clarify that so we're not going to have stop signs uh on the east west flow you'll just once you leave the parking lot and go on to the access road that's where you have a stop sign right right but you'll be able to freely flow once you're on that main line you go straight forward right so it sounds like the consensus is it might be an issue but we won't know until we know that we'll say if you keep those potholes in that little lane i had one one last issue that i wanted to say was the the sign issues that he brought up um i mean i if if we allow what staff looks at as a sign you know the the local logo pictures that they're using on the building it's the same thing as mcdonald's putting their their arches are a logo i mean if the building started putting all that kind of decoration on the building that becomes signage and i think that's a little bit what this is like and and from my standpoint i think if we if we get on that slippery slope everybody's going to be asking for it we've been pretty strict about it and i think we should be because it's yeah it should be fair for the people that have already had to do what they had to do to comply and now i'll let somebody else do it it wouldn't be fair so much as i'd like to see this business come in here which i would but anyways i'm done right additional do you have additional questions for staff at this time i think it looks nice i think the building looks nice even though yeah i should wait till we're done with the hearing so we can i just had one question for steph and it's a clarification on something that was mentioned earlier uh the sidewalk connection on the south side of the property that will you go back to exit at 15. i guess it's a trail oh yeah one more one yeah the trail on the north side of 59th street on the south side of the property that tim was pointing out there wasn't a connection there between those two we're saying there will be i don't know that anybody said that so right there that piece right there and then if you go west west west all the way over to the next pieces there is no there is no trail here yeah i know that but that's what he's asking it going to connect there is no connection there is there a plan to connect from there because there's another trail right now if you're going a little more west than their driveway the the well how to phrase this so the connection to the west i'm sorry is here nope oh so there's a west trail here and the sidewalk comes up so if you're coming from the south coming from the south oh i'm sorry if you're coming from the south we have a trail that connects here right and then up and then you're connected so if you wanted to go if you're going to chipotle from the south you would go that way if you i mean is it could there one be here sure we that's what we were asking but there's not one there now those were the dead ends that i was talking about and he's asking the same question north side of the new road it looks like there's a gap in the trailer there's no known connection there the goal here is to make the north south connection i won't ever drive this i just wanna there is a westerly connection already here and on the north end yeah but that would be a city city improvement not something we'd asked about all right i don't remember the conversations with the engineers why that was not included here do you have any recollection of why that connection in hindsight i know there's a slight i know there's some elevation issues here but that's there's there's but i i don't see why we couldn't have done one off top my head but lee might have said on a 2d plan it looks like it should but that you don't know what the content looks like i know here there's some elevation issues but over here it's pretty flat we could look at that we can we should probably ask we'd represent the engineer i mean it really isn't related to the popeyes but it's sometimes the conversation crossing only question my next question is for the applicants so unless there are other questions for staff we can open up the public hearing at 6 54 and invite the applicant to come speak hello my name is richard gurdaman i'm with uh wilkert we're the civil engineers for the project i'll be the design engineer of record um noted some of your questions hopefully i can answer a lot of them i know some of it is in the works particularly the signage um and i reached out to chris ludwig he's on call with me right now he's the architect he can answer the wordy things about what exactly popeye's kitchen is louisiana kitchen louisiana style it's a it's a spicing it's a little bit different it's kind of like kfc but a different twist on it but a little nicer um it's not as uh it's not gonna have the the traffic flows like you would with a chick-fil-a um so it's gonna be a lot less than that um but it's just a different style of of chicken and we just got one in our area that just opened up and i've not even been there yet so um but they're yeah they're growing um all over the place um illinois here so when i when i said explain it to us a little bit is it um some places are designed to be more of a pick up and go place and some places are more designers that eat in the are they a little bit of both or well that's a great question these days now too i mean everybody seems to be it's really vehicle heavy in fact you mentioned about the dual lanes there's i've been i just saw somebody came up with the quad lane for a development and it's you know that's uh that's really the way that it's going the the demographics change the sit down and relax it's now go um bill i think is saying 80 percent just drive through right now in fact it was at brooklyn center brooklyn park they just designed the first two-story taco bell where it's all drive-through lanes there's no sit down crazy-looking yeah i you know i um i know the people that own the culver's in town and during the pandemic i was talking to one of the general managers and i said wow this must really be tough said no we're having record months every month yeah and i said well what do you mean and they said well we're trying to figure out how to not open the restaurant because they make way more money on the drive-thru but it took it took teaching people to do the drive through and not and these are these are not sit downs i mean they have tiny sitting areas they're smaller than this but they're small they're not like they're not like a mcdonald's size well mcdonald's has even changed it's well yeah i'm just going to see if you go on the newest mcdonald's over on stower boulevard there's you know uh 12 tables in there yeah and and they have then well i said 12 tables in the main part then there's one of those playground things that you know that they have walled off something they have to do but um so that was what i was wondering is what kind of an operation is it what is their menu like and that kind of stuff but i didn't if you're the civil engineer you have any idea about that so that's fine well yeah i mean it's no but it's a good question i mean and about um we could go kind of line item or we could uh we could bring up a plan um but uh some of the questions in particular one was snow storage what they're currently doing right now is the furthest southwest seven stalls is being used for snow storage right now we're not going to use all these spaces it's heavily parked we've got more than we need um you know having the the drive-through come in split out and then be able to go through um like you said opening day a few things are probably gonna have people out there just like to do with some of the chick-fil-a stuff and maybe direct but um it cues along really quick the delivery system's really quick so after that first excitement i don't think you're going to have any stacking issues but the issues too we we have so much parking i believe that they could if it did happen a special sale whatever they can cue along heading south along the south run and match in so there could be more queuing than there because again a lot of that parking isn't necessarily going to be active it may be used but it may not be active in and out um you know a few of the other things too so the as far as the sign package goes what you saw there were some prototypical items from some we're actually i talked with chris here um there is a specific sign package that's going to come with that and it's not going to be a deal killer it's something we'll definitely work with um the one facade being able to add maybe some of that other you know non-ethos items i'm not a fan of the the fake windows but some other type of methodology um that could bring some spice up to that again civil engineer yeah more of an architectural item but it's definitely something that that was not absolute site-specific they're working each one kind of is custom uh to then so they're working with the signed vendor so i think what we need to do is once they get their package together we'll get those off uh to you guys for for review and definitely can work with any idea that if that could be accomplished before the city council meeting i think so yes i think it's in the world that would be helpful yep councils yep yeah so that could be one of those contingent type approvals yeah i don't myself personally i don't mind if there's things that aren't quite done that scott's on top of and it gets done before the council meeting i don't think the planning commission unless it's something that we really have strong feelings about but i don't think that you know i i agree with what you're thinking and if you if they can make you happy though i think you should make a recommendation though on those two main items that do you agree first of all do you agree with staff with the one sign purpose per facade and if they don't do one on the rear that they're allowed to do a fourth one on one of the other facades and then secondly and i wasn't talking about adding transparency because we know that's all operational and storage in the back of that building i would say just the use of materials and design it on the rear of that yeah chris can definitely do that i mean we can definitely make that and use some of the conversations to our client you know cost-wise so now you say uh being able to utilize the one side per facade plus the one little logo no what i'm saying is we've typically allowed the in these situations four wall signs total okay um so if you're not going to do one on that neural side on that rear side then we would at least what i'm recommending is that you could do a second sign on one of the facades okay total four signs you have and you have the choice which signs okay you've done that many times that's where the chicken logo could go on the one side as opposed to say the back would be right or if they decide to put one of the signs on that rare facade then you got one for you know and i again we try to be flexible for you guys i understand going down the slippery slope if you open the can of worms then it's like well you guys let this happen so i i get that um there's another thing uh yeah so the the five foot uh setback um on the south side there you're not gonna have an issue with that or no again because the ownership of the fact that there's easements over it um you know i didn't bring it up as an issue yeah i don't know tim you you caught it i only brought it up because of the ownership was different and i thought oh what walmart isn't going to say anything but then you're never going to have anything there so no it's not big enough to use and there's an easement over it so i don't really have an issue but if walmart owned it i could see them saying well hold on a minute we you know our easements for the entire parcel yeah and i'm sure it is because i think it is it's only a triangle left after you put the roundabout in there so okay and i'm actually glad grading wise and access wise that we don't have to move because we could take that drive i'll move it to the north but what i actually because we have the ada parking there you have the ramps up and down to that you have to rent we did i told our guys we got to get a ramp in here for uh for them to bring the garbage out if they're going to roll it out you got to get out to that to that dumpster and i don't want them to be pulling it up over a curb so we need that that bit of distance to come back down on that ramp to make that happen we may have to turn the corner on that but um that space is going to be you don't see it now but i'm gonna actually add that to it to get um get those guys i don't trip um just especially in the winter time so yeah we'll make adjustments to that um everything else uh we you know we're i think just a little bit under the impervious was before so yeah grading drainage everything like that seemed to work out well um yeah i mean so it's the facade uh and and some of the signage seems to be the things that we if we can get you something and we will get you something before the plan commission meeting um so whether or not you you conditionally prove based on acceptable solutions to that we can get that to you right did you have any questions specifically um otherwise i did unless all right uh i was i was looking at the uh the site plan for the drive through and it looks like that i was a little bit concerned that the people exiting the popeyes drive through would have to weave with the people entering the panera drive through that there might be a conflict there now personally i think if you can't navigate that you probably shouldn't have a driver's license but i'm also and as a you know what i'm thinking of is how it's going to operation you know we can do all the traffic studies we can predict what the movements are going to be that's just the illumination plan could you take it to the site plan sure it's a heavy ass though man i know all right uh right that's grading uh that's utilities actually that's land visual on that it's not as it's a blind turn um like you said but it's it's there it's not a blind turn it's not high speed it's not an entrance coming in it's they're slowing they're making their turns like don't see it as an issue and it's all curved both of them are curved so it's not like somebody's going to accidentally drive from one to the other like if it was painted there would be a problem but it was more just the idea of someone exiting and trying to go to the right side of the road and someone on the right side of the road trying to go to the left to get them in era but that's yeah as long as you it sounds like you guys have got your eye on that and maybe have some stuff yeah it's amazing how how this that exit um you know especially coming out onto roadways being able to get things lined up with left turn lanes and being able to incorporate that those are the bigger concerns to deal with but all right any other that was my i think my only question do we have any other questions for the applicant uh all right thank you very much thank you very much uh we also would invite anyone in the audience that they have would like to okay well with that i would uh entertain a motion to close the public hearing it's all moved i motion second and a second uh all in favor opposed that was unanimous all right uh additional conversation um as soon as everybody's done talking i think i have an idea what we want to do for emotion so but if they're finding out if there's more questions any other questions no all right so i guess we are ready for them okay yeah i'd like to move to approve um as the report recommends and i think that there's there's a couple items here in the conclusion recommendation page 7 and page 8 um i my motion and my feeling personally is that the staff has an eye on what we're what has been done with the signage in the past and that we should stay with what he is recommending and then i would go one step further and say that um if the applicant gets them the stuff that they need before the council meeting and they can get scott to do it i want to make that a uh i guess a condition of number 11. it's part of number 11. the all the signs and everything designed to comply with the or is there a better one is that maybe number 10 maybe number 10 yeah so two staff prior to uh city council yeah yeah i'm just saying that what you what you presented to us i'm on board with and i think that's what we've done in the past and so i want to make that a condition that they just make sure that they get you the information and if they do to your satisfaction then that's part of our recommendation to the council that i mean that's the way i see that and the other thing had to do with the light through the lighting um wasn't it the sign no on the side of the rear the rear facade yeah the rear facade i'm sorry um so the the um it's still part of the sign it's my in my opinion it's still part of the signage but is there a separate yeah so 13 um which one just 13. the comments on the um buildings okay there it is roof aside yeah and i i'm with you on that i personally i agree and it's part of my motion that we that we make that a condition that they make some changes to that so that it's jazzed up a little bit to your satisfaction before it goes to the council and i'm i'm my motion is saying that the planning commission is recommending that so the only other one that i uh asked you to comment on was number one on page seven and that was the five foot setback and i think you're all over all right so i'll restate the motion to approve as presented in the staff report with emphasis on number one um number ten and i'll leave it at that and third time i'm sorry 110 and 13 revised the way we discussed with scott a second all right we have a motion and a second all in favor aye aye opposed pretty sure that was unanimous so it passes all right so this will also go before the council on the 28th of june unless i'm mistaken nope all right so that will be the final decision will come there any idea when you might it would be nice that if we could incorporate those plans into the packet which would go out if we can have like the winds to be four uh tuesday the uh the 28th that a possibility okay okay sounds good okay that'd be great so that we can and on that meeting are we here for that as well if you could be yeah you should come to the city council meeting yeah the council meetings here hey with weather like this it's great to come to minnesota well thank you all right so that ends our public hearings next we have uh the new business i added sorry guys uh the oak park heights condos um a little birdie told me about this but i thought maybe staff could kind of give us a heads up since this will be kind of a big project so if i'm understanding correctly the the here on the corner right right 58th and oak green avenue so the there's an old white house right here on the court you leave city hall you'll see it there um the owner of that property is a local person jamie juncker and he wants to redevelop that site into and scott certainly stopped me you've heard this a couple times and we met with him a couple months ago about some very cursory concepts um to develop two potentially three-story buildings we've heard anywhere from 24 to 36 units at that site he did hold some neighborhood meetings whatever those whatever one wants to find those ads they invited the community in and around his home 500 odd feet he held them here at city hall we let people do that um and you know whether those good or bad it's not for us to say it's just a opportunity for him to engage the neighborhood about what he wants to do to date he has not supplied or he has not submitted to the city an application there's nothing of record right now we've seen some of his two-dimensional sketches we've seen the elevation of that building i mean the build is kind of kind of cool looking but is it does it fit does it fit at that corner um and how does it comply with the ordinance that site um is currently zoned open space in our city it's that's a placeholder uh it does allow single-family single-family residential under open space as well however the comp plans um directs it to be low density so at its face if we take the application if we took the application and concept that he would propose it's not compliant with the city's complaint the only thing he the only way he could accomplish it uh is if he well he has a rezone but he'd have to change the comprehensive plan you know that's going to be the discussion does the does the planning commit commission recommend does the city council want to do that there wasn't i believe i can't remember all the the plans um but i think the last plan called for that maybe mid-density it was different um but but it was yeah the twenty two thousand eight it mid dance c 2018 has it low down and we discussed we discussed a lot of those areas in specific uh with the planning commission and city council and the thought at 2018 is that it should be low density to be more consistent with what and that's what it becomes so if he makes an application at its face it's a hard no likely unless there's a council is willing to re-zone and amend its complaint our 402 ordinance basically says no if it's not consistent with a comp plan that it's that it's patently um premature yeah we can't rezone it to something the comp plan doesn't call for correct so we've tried to express that kindly to the to the person but you know it's still his right to apply and we'll see we have a meeting with him next on the 15th scott yep and we'll hear some more uh we do we do do preliminary staff meetings with developers just like these folks here tonight and yeah we'll see yeah i guess yeah and he was up at the city council he pitched his his plan i mean it was during the three-minute visitor piece so there was no back and forth with with the console and himself it was just here's what i'm thinking all he told us i also have something to add he contacted me and i think it was one of the council members that told him to contact me because she thought i was the chairman still and the message that went back is i'm not the chairman and if you want to talk to the chairman then this is his name and sure that was not the birdie that talked to me so what that was not the birdie that talked about record i'm all i'm doing is just making it public that he contacted me and i didn't talk to him i didn't talk to him because i didn't there are channels you know and um and he's had a number of neighborhood meetings maybe he mentioned that but um how many three four four more yeah it's amazing i hear again this is all anecdotal i hear things that are good things that are bad things that are oh what great oh it went horrible you know so we're just the reason why i bring it up is that this is one of the things when i'm doing a development for somebody that i do is i try and talk to as many people as i can you want to talk to the planning commission chairman you want to talk to the parks people you want to talk to the council members individually if you can you want to talk to as many people as you can before you get up and start going through spending money and going through that process and you know it's always been my position here is to not let lead somebody down the path thinking that yeah you got my support you know and because then they spend money and they get mad and then they start suing people and so i bring that up just to say that he's contacted me and i didn't talk to him but it's not that i won't talk to him but um you know it's that's typically how that's played i mean that's how that's the game plan that's how you do it you may get a call who knows so that's what we know okay thank you yeah thank you my thought was just that you know when it does come it might be helpful to maybe have more than one meeting i mean we did spend 45 minutes each in a chicken restaurant and turning a burger king into a bank so this one's kind of going to be a little more discussion you're going to have more neighborhood imports people will come i would just say that he hasn't applied so at this point there's nothing to talk about until he flies i think it's fair to say that that numerous consul members have been contacted by the public already and it will be it will be something that will bring great discussion well and i think there's been there's been plenty of public hearings and discussions about that comp plan when it was being developed and um those neighbors are going to say hey we thought we had a reason to believe this you know that it was going to be low density and the people with the single family houses right next to it that all back up to it they're going to have a they're going to have something to say about it so we haven't had a good hot one for a while well with that uh we have no old business informational we've got uh four upcoming meetings um they're on that list yes don't have it right in front of me okay well there it is right there wait here's yours here hit it from myself see we've got uh well you guys can probably review this for yourself but um the next uh ones we really have to worry about is well i do because i'm going to be the council representative at the meeting on the 28th and then i'll be at the june meeting yep yep july or july i'm sorry yeah i'm sorry so with that we only have one item left on the agenda i would like to make a motion to adjourn a second motion in a second all in favor all right i think that was unanimous cheers you