There's the light. Thank you, sir. All right. We're going to call the city of Oak Park Heights Plan Commission meeting to order on Thursday, March 12th. First order of business. Pledge allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. First order of business is approval of the agenda. I would entertain a motion. >> I so move to approve the agenda as it is. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. Uh all those in favor say I. I >> perfect. Uh the next order of business is approval of the minutes from last month uh Thursday, February 12th. Any commentary changes? Nope. >> Entertain a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve last month's meeting minutes, February 12th. >> Second. >> Got a motion, a second. All those in favor say I. I I >> uh next up we've got department and leison on reports. Mr. Right, do you have anything for us this morning? >> Yep. Uh Mr. Chair, planning commission members. Um we uh we do have a few applicants for the planning commission. Uh so looking at uh doing interviews before our next meeting. We will have a planning commission meeting in uh let's see, that would be April. So, um probably planning on having that um five o'clockish right before this meeting. So, tenatively mark your calendars. Uh either myself or Julie will reach out to you um with more information, excuse me, related to that. That's all I had, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you much. City council, >> I don't have anything else to add. We did not have our council meeting on Tuesday night. >> Perfect. Thank you much. All right. Next up, we've got visitor and public comment. So, this is an opportunity for the public to address the commission with questions or comments on issues that are not on the regular agenda. So, please keep your comments to three minutes in length. Those that are in the audience that are not here for mango cannabis or seven brew coffee, please feel free to come up and bring your questions, comments, concerns. Going once. Going twice. Seeing none, we are going to move on to public hearings. First up is Mango Cannabis. They are returning for their design guideline review. Um, Mr. Richards. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the commission. Uh, we have Mango Cannabis and LNF Holdings, uh, owner of the property that have made the application, uh, to make exterior changes to the, uh, what's currently the Joseph's uh, restaurant building, uh, 14608th Street North. Uh the city council approved in October of last year of 2025 the condition use permit it to allow the u uh that site to operate as a cannabis retail dispensary uh property zone B2. Um just a few uh points to make. Uh this is uh essentially just design uh standard or design guidelines review. Um design guidelines are exactly what what it says. uh they're not standards, they're not regulations, but there is some flexibility uh that afford that is afforded to the planning commission and city council uh in um interpreting and enforcing those uh the we did a little bit out of the ordinary. There was not another public hearing process as part of this, but we felt that uh because it really is a a variance from the design uh guidelines that we would just advertise a public hearing just to let people know before uh it uh it goes forward uh for uh for review by the city council. So again, we held that public hearing, not required, but we thought it was just a wise thing to do. Uh in terms of uh signage, uh the freestanding pylon sign will remain uh require any permits for any changes etc. Wall signage um the uh uh wall sign that's proposed just one is 100 square ft. Uh the signs cannot exceed 80 square ft per facade. Uh there may need to be again if they look at the ordinance and the definitions and how signage is measured they probably still meet the 80 square feet but when that comes through for for permit we will assure that it's uh compliant with that 80 square ft uh requirement. Um nothing is changing with the site with the site plan, building footprint, um circulation patterns, uh the landscaping. Uh again, nothing changing with this. No change to parking. Uh so the parking is is grandfathered in as as uh u as as what is out there right now. Uh as far as lighting, um there's not a lighting plan presented. they've proposed to uh uh the same uh uh parking lot lights uh uh would remain. If there's any changes again, it would have to comply with the ordinance. The one thing the plans do uh indicate is LED strip lights. Again, those are not permitted under our under ordinances and would not be allowed. There's a condition that reflects that. Also, uh trash recycling storage. Um uh this is something that I know that uh that Julie Holdman has been looking at for a number of years to make sure that they get their uh um their trash or recycling storage uh uh within an enclosure uh with this process. Now is our opportunity uh and we are requ uh we're requiring that as part of the part of the review. the the main uh topic of conversation uh would be the proposed building color and graphics. Uh significant departure from the design guidelines. Uh just to read a portion of that design guidelines section, warm tone colors are encouraged because of the year round appeal. Um principal building color should be generally consist of a neutral or muted colors with low reflectance. Uh again, I I pass this around, but this is what we're looking at. It's um it's an orange. Uh it's a green. Um so again that uh uh that's something that uh uh again activated really the public hearing and the the discussion uh we should have tonight about that. Now we have allowed um other uh rather vivid colors. Uh uh Dave's uh uh hot chicken was just approved with some uh color graphics. Um, we've allowed the car wash out on um on uh u you know the uh Still Water Boulevard. Uh again, um a little bit more vivid and so forth. Uh I know that our former mayor was always kind of campaigning that maybe we should lighten up those design guidelines a little bit to allow a little bit more color variety. Uh but again, uh you know, want to again point that out as far as the uh the colors that are that are shown. and uh Jake has the uh diagrams uh on of the building uh up uh uh for your review. So with that, any questions? Not hearing any. Thank you, Mr. Richards. All right, we'll uh open the public hearing at what is that? 608. So anybody in the audience, including the applicant, entertain you guys to come up. uh state your name. Um if you live in town, what your address is and uh if any questions, comments, concerns, let us know. Um otherwise um definitely want to have the applicant step up and we can entertain some questions directly to you guys. >> Good evening. Justin Dascis, Dascis Consulting Development. Good to see everyone again here along with Kevin Pata with Mango Cannabis and we also have our architect Mark Schmidt with SC Art Studio and uh as always your planner did a great job kind of giving overview of what's in front of you tonight uh with looking at the design standards or guidelines excuse me uh particular on that for this evening and uh we really think that uh these modifications are going to bring the building much more substantially in compliance with these guidelines. you know the biggest item kind of is the color uh but we would love to you know talk about that answer any questions I think we provided some good examples some other projects have been done it's actually done very tastefully you look at some of the newer developments site of the car wash some other ones I think will be a welcomed addition and able to you know bring the building kind of in the 21st century and also you know important with you know branding and with the company uh culture and color so happy to answer any questions or go deeper in any of the other aspects that we're presenting >> I have a question. Is this the way your buildings look at your other buildings? Because uh >> if I remember correctly, you have a lot or a few across the country >> for for our new standalone concept where we can actually control the exterior elevations. >> This is >> I'm sorry, can you introduce yourself just for the record? >> Kevin Pat with Mingo Cannabis. Um uh JB Commissioner um for standalone buildings um the this is the new concept new design that we've gone with which is usually like a nishiha panel at the bottom and then we're going with aluminum cladding on top uh which is colorful to give you an example um if you want to pull up Google maps maybe you can show our New Mexico store which is our 9,000 square foot standalone building uh that has a very similar uh facade and design. Um, and then in Minnesota, uh, a our Leverne property, which is a groundup, uh, is pretty much almost identical to this design. So, we've actually added a lot more mason than we usually typically like. I mean, we've, you know, for Leverne, we're doing, if I'm not mistaken, Nishiha, large Nishiha panels at the bottom, >> uh, and then on top would be aluminum. Um, for this one we we actually mixed some Mason product into it, which I believe is the Nishiha brick. >> It's a Nishiha panel. It's a composite fiber cement panel that looks like brick, feels like brick. It's It's heavy duty. Um, gives it a very contemporary, modern look is what we're looking for. So, we wanted to add that to it as well. I think that was part of the ordinance. Was it part of the guidelines? >> Yeah, part of the guidelines. >> So, we uh we follow the guidelines as best as we can. um and uh added as much mason as we could to it, but we wanted to also add an element of mango to it to really make it pop and give it that, hey, this is mango, right? This is our our our our colors are orange and green. So, it really helps us stick out and people will notice us a little bit better. Uh I don't know if you have any other >> just in the packet too, we did supply some of the existing stores. So, you may see that packet too. So, you can see yes, that is >> in the Buffalo store as well. >> It was a Sunland Park. Yeah, >> Sunlight Park is is the >> Yeah, Sun Park is going to be dead with the panels, correct? >> Gotcha. >> So, you guys don't have any problems with these really bright colors fading in the sun? I mean, that's New Mexico and I can see that the photo here is by owner, but it looks like, you know, maybe new. So, I mean, those are pretty bright colors. >> Yeah, New Mexico I for sure more of an issue with the sun than it is in the in the Midwest. Um we we do use a specialized paint in the middle. So so in New Mexico uh it is a concrete tillup building. So the entire building is concrete and then on the front and side of it and along the trim of the roof is all aluminum cladding uh paneling. Um, in New Buffalo, uh, we used Ephus there for majority of the product. And then, uh, on the bottom, I believe we used a James Hardy product, uh, which is similar to a Nishiha almost. It's kind of like a ceramic porcelain type material. Um, really sticks out as well. Um, but preferably our our preferred method is Nishiha and large Nishiha composite panels with aluminum cladding on top. and some threedimensional cladding as well on top. So, you'll have some flat panels where the signage and and where some of the uh uh design work is and then along the the edges of it, you'll see all the three-dimensional paneling. >> The one in Lancing, Michigan doesn't look very bright. Maybe it's because it's next to that black. That orange really the orange and green really pop. The one in Michigan is white. So, I don't know. >> Lots of variation. Yeah, thanks for providing those pictures of the other >> Yeah. >> locations. >> Absolutely. >> I don't Did we provide Lever in here too or No, I don't think you did. >> Was Lancing ground up? >> Lancing was Lancing was not a ground up. It was a brand new building. Uh it was already retrofitted for a dispensary. >> Yeah. >> And we took it over. Um, so we don't own the building, so we weren't able to do much with the exterior. If you see that green portion that goes all the way around, that's all aluminum cladding panel, but this is the original elevation from the existing uh landlord. >> Uh, my question to the group is about some articles that I saw this week about a potential second location less than a mile away. So, can you speak to are you going to both? Are you going to fulfill both? Like going for secondary alternatives is one thing, but do you plan on and intend to go to the Devil's Advocate building and this Joseph's Rehab both? Or are they options? >> Well, they're both going to be dispensaries. They're not both going to be Mango Cannabis. So, one will be Mango, one will be our other brand. >> Sure. >> Okay. Yeah, because I think it was the Mango brand that came in the article under the devil's advocate article that I read about. So, >> yeah, I saw something floating around. One of my realtor sent it to me, but I didn't have access to read it. Um, but yeah, I wasn't I wasn't uh I I I I didn't speak to anyone or or or have an interview to publish an article, but >> unless I you guys went to city council in Stillwater to get a conversation out there in the public. So, it just uh the way they presented it was mango. Um if it's not mango, then it doesn't really matter to us as a Oak Park Heights community, but if it was duplicate Mango um branding, it seems like you'd be fighting against yourself um half a mile away from each other. So, I was just curious what's going on there. >> Yeah, we have we have so we have multiple brands and you know, the goal was to bring two of our concepts to the area. >> Um Mango is one of our brands. Another one of our brands is called Grahams. Uh, and then right now we're we're debating whether we want to bring the Grahams brand to Minnesota or whether we want to develop something that's more of a local feel, Minnesota feel. >> Sure. >> So, >> okay. >> Gotcha. Thank you fores. >> Oh, yeah. Definitely different. Absolutely. The design emphasis both will be beautiful concepts. So, we'll we'll we'll definitely have two great options to pick from, which will feel different, have a different ambiance, >> um, but will bring the same management, the same compliance that we're known for to the cities. >> Okay. >> I really like the rendering. I just get, uh, you know, a little hesitant with the reflective nature of all the orange. You're going to have bright orange, medium orange, and dark orange based on how the sun's hitting those panels, which is cool. Yeah. you know, but again, you're now talking five, six, seven different colors, and those triangular panels are not what I see in your other places. So, I'm not afraid to like bash that because it's not part of your brand. >> Yep. >> So, the colors I feel are part of your brand. I would not want to take that away from your brand, but the the triangular um that could be a little exotic for Oak Park Heights. I think the colors are good, but you now got trip three colors depending on the way the sun's hitting it. >> Yeah. >> And with those, >> you know, they aren't matte finished, so it shouldn't it shouldn't give you too much reflection, but the the the three-dimensional touch, I mean, I can send you some examples of of some groups that we've worked with um that that threedimensional panels for other clients. Unfortunately, we want threedimensional on all of our properties, but there are contractors that refuse to use it. For example, in Rochester, New York, at a Rochester, New York location, we couldn't find a subcontractor that will even touch alum metal cladding, right? So, that's that that's also an issue. Fortunately, in Minnesota, we've we've actually been fortunate to find great contractors that have all familiar with using the product. >> Minnesota's the best. >> Yeah, Minnesota's great. So, they're all familiar with it. They like using it, which is great news. We, you know, we we want to use it. It looks it looks really sharp when you see it on a building. Um, especially in different colors. Like I I can show you some examples of like a almost like a really dark blue that's like black but like uh a navy but really deep navy. And it just has a really nice touch to it and really gives the building a great modern element. Um, and that's that's what we were looking to to uh emulate, right? Give it that more modern appeal to it. metal panels and you know dark dark gray is is modern too. >> Yeah, >> you can see in the panels that they are there's a little bit of reflectivity but it's not significant. Now we're no on an artificial lighting situation here but >> sure. >> All right. Any other questions for these guys? >> No. >> All right. Um, anything else you want to share with us? >> Uh, I think that that's it. Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. >> Yeah. Thank you so much. Um, >> any other public? >> Yeah. Anybody else from the public that wants to come up and speak to the application in front of us? >> All right. >> Seeing none, I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing. >> I so move to close the public hearing. >> Second. >> Got a first and a second. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. So, this is an opportunity for us among ourselves to communicate, ask questions, come up with a recommendation. >> You can sit. >> Oh, okay. Yeah, you're good. Thank you guys. >> Um, it's certainly bold. Um, that's a massive undertaking on that building. >> Yeah. >> Um, so good for you guys for tackling that. Um, yeah. I think besides the signage, which item two talks about under the ordinance standards, 80 square feet, >> um, really the only big one for me is number eight, how far we as a recommending body want to take the guideline to definition or not. that and since it's a guideline and not a uh standard or whatever you want to call it statute >> um I think that usually I I play by the book and since the book is gray I would say we need to also think of like the community that we serve and we do have a lot of older people that have known this building to be a staple in our community for a very long time. Um, and this will absolutely be a lot for them, but also need to rewire people's brain to know that it's not Joseph's anymore. It's >> true. >> Mango cannabis. So, I feel neutral. >> Yeah, it's definitely a turning point for sure. There I'm surprised there's not more people here to talk about um the circumstances >> changes. So, I would entertain a motion for something. Do you guys have any other discussion, questions, thoughts? >> You good with the panels or accept the colors? Don't like the triangles or we don't want to, you know, >> change their style and >> let them let it let it rock and roll or what? Well, there was some comment when this first was proposed that wasn't it the owner or somebody wanted it to totally look different. They didn't want to keep the look of it. So, this is definitely a change. >> Yeah, >> I can't say I'm a fan of the panels, but it's not my business. So, >> yeah, it's almost redoing the whole outside of the facade. >> Yeah. >> Um I mean the when you get into some of the weeds of the details like the transparencies, they're They're facing 36th Street. They're hitting the number there. You can't really add glass to the back of the building. That's not a through street anyway. So from a guideline perspective, um you know, the old blood in town might lean toward the Lancing, Michigan, Michigan example as a comparison, but >> um to the point about the um west side of town having more of the bold colors coming into coming into play, this that set the precedent more or less. So, >> the other thing when looking at the uh comps um from other locations that I noticed is this one definitely has less orange than three of the four examples. So, I think it's a good halfway meeting point. >> Yeah, they're splitting the building. >> Oh, actually, no, it's closed. You can't you can't speak anymore. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> Appreciate that, though. >> Thanks. >> My apologies. Um, no. You're like Oklahoma. >> So, I I feel like we're in 2026. There's a rhyme and a reason to do this. >> Um, I can't make a motion myself. So, what do you guys think? >> I make a motion to approve as it's shown. >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion to the motion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> All right. So, this will go to city council on the 24th. >> 24th. >> Yep. >> Tuesday 24th. So, again, we're the recommending body. They could yay or nay it as it stands. Um, so if you guys want to be present for that to hear what they have to say, it won't be a public forum. Um, they'll they'll discuss amongst themselves, but Tuesday the 24th of March is the next pass at this. >> So, thanks for being here. You guys can hang out if you'd like. Otherwise, >> um, good luck in your next stages. Thank you so much. Could I share this with you with you guys? If you don't mind, just so you guys have an example of lever, which is our ground build that we're doing, >> I would welcome it. I think we've got time. So, if you want to just if you want to do like a quick uh walk by, we I'd be happy to see it. >> Why don't you also send it to Jake, too, so we can share it with the city council. >> Sure. >> And I'll send it to you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Okay. That just gives you a quick peak of, you know, what we're good up >> and this is all nishiha and aluminum. >> Yeah, we'll share that with the city council. >> Y there >> a small town Minnesota with all of our It's probably easy if you just grab my card out there. It's It's long. >> Okay, >> it's it's long. >> I'll get it out there. >> Perfect. Thank you, gentlemen. Council >> members. >> All right, we are going to move on to item number two, seven brew coffee. Um, not going to rattle off the address. Mr. Richards, go ahead. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh we have a proposal for a seven brew coffee um within the shops of Oak Park Heights development. Uh it was formerly a Ruby Tuesdays. I think it's been probably about 10 years since Ruby Tuesdays has been around. Um the application consists of a request for a plan development amendment conditional use permit to allow the drive-through coffee use additional use permit for parking and site plan design guidelines review property zone B2 general business district. Uh so the plan view development is an overlay on the uh uh on the uh B2 district for this site. It was approved in April 2004 and that also included the approvals for the Ruby Tuesdays at that time. Uh the applicants have done a good job provided a lot of detail uh on their business operations. Um the um uh again property of zone B2 um the u uh setbacks are all conforming with uh I should say that they are totally taking down the current Ruby Tuesday building and it's it's constructed from scratch. Um the uh uh setbacks are all met uh with this. Uh as you note uh the property lines for this includes what you think of just the Ruby Tuesday's area, but the area to the west is all part of their parking field and there's cross easements that was developed as part of the venue development. Uh so they can use, you know, any customer can use uh really any of the uh access drives or any of the parking uh throughout that development. That was the the whole uh premise of the of a PUB. Um the U uh drive aisles stacking lanes will be 25 ft from the property line. Uh 10 foot is required. So that's well within the requirements. Uh building height is met with this new uh construction. They provided a traffic management plan that indicates the flow of traffic through the site. Um cars stacking. Uh they have room for 18 vehicles uh with this uh more than adequate uh parking. and even uh or at least stacking space uh for cars as they're waiting. Um the uh uh requirement for this site, it would be 19 parking spaces and there's more than adequate. There's 63 existing parking spaces at least uh under this uh ownership for this lot. Um but it does require conditional use permit and that they are making enough site plan changes uh that uh they're adding the four additional spaces adjacent to the building. um would just trigger that cup review. Uh grading uh drainage and utilities. The city engineers provided a report on that. This does require Browns Creek Watershed District approval. Uh there is some uh uh uh storm water uh issues that need to be dealt with. Um and uh I believe that the applicant is addressing that with the engineer and with Browns Creek. The condition of of the permit from Browns Creek and approval of the city engineer is obviously a a condition Um again we have um uh LED strip lights as part of this uh uh that would not be allowed. They would have to be uh that would have to be required to be taken off the plans. Uh the plan uh meets the requirements of the phototric uh photometrics for the site. Again they are utilizing the parking lot some of the existing uh uh parking lot pictures but the area around the site does meet uh the requirements there. If you look at Jcast up right now, the some of the light fixtures are not full cut off. That one rounded picture. Um just some slight changes would need to be made to that and we'll check that as part of the building permit review landscape uh plan. There is some significant trees that are to be removed. The city ars wanted some additional details. Hopefully, we'll have some more details for the city council, but we do not see an issue. If there is a need to u do some tree replacement uh the city arburist will work uh with them add some trees or there may be a payment in lie of u planting trees but that's generally handled through uh through the arburst and the uh developers u as they move forward with their plans. Freestanding sign is proposed for this business. I did take a look at the site uh this week and there's already two freestanding signs uh for that development. Again, plan new development allowed for uh development signs but not for individual uh freestanding signs. So, additional freestanding sign would not be allowed uh on this uh on this site. Uh the wall signage uh meets the requirements. Uh the total allowable wall signage uh meets the requirements. Uh also uh transparency u with a a new building the um you go to the other slide of the elevations. Um so if you look at the upper um uh upper uh diagram it's referred to as number one exterior elevation front that would be facing north toward highway 36. Uh that is at about 22% transparency. The other two facads are like six and 13%. Um you can see uh the top one that's uh at 13 uh% the lower is at 6%. We've not placed as much of an emphasis on that. Um, in terms of it's mainly the the street facing facades and and meeting that 20% is always been emphasized in the uh design guidelines review. Uh, and we don't see that as really being a critical issue. Again, they have some internal layouts and so forth the design they're building that may prevent them from putting uh additional uh glass there. Again, the fact that they're beating that front to side, I think is the most uh most important building colors. Um uh you saw the board. I can send that around again if you would like to to see them. Um again, we don't have issues with uh they're pretty neutral. We don't have any orange or green issues with this one. Uh this I I think would probably fit better with what the intent of the the the original design uh guidelines uh were. With that, uh, I think that's about it. The conditions reflect, uh, all the comments related to the building, color wraps, LED, lighting, uh, you know, all of our standard conditions. Um, uh, again, a little bit more detail on some of the sign uh, sign plans showing the pro signs with dimensions. Um, uh, so with that, any questions at this point? It it one thing I do have to say it's because that building has been vacant for some time. It is nice to see finally that we're getting a redevelopment on that site. It's a fairly fairly visible uh site along the Highway 36 corridor. And uh again, this could be attractive use uh uh for that site. >> Hard to get to off 36 though. >> You have to think about it. >> Yeah, you have to kind of know the area a little bit around and >> the locals might appreciate it. comp competition for Caribou. >> Yeah. >> And Starbucks. >> Starbucks. >> There isn't a lack of coffee places. >> No. >> Any questions for Mr. Richards? Um I do have a couple, but I'd like you guys to go first if you have any. >> Uh turning it into some sort of drive-thru if their business plan doesn't work out. It's something you were stuck with in the city where you got this little building with a drive-thru going on. So >> that you bring up a good point uh JB in that um one thing that covered in the narrative. Uh but this is a situation where there is no inside seating. Um and uh they have uh actual not order boards that you speak to a microphone, you actually speak to a person. Chick-fil-A uses that uh uh uses that technique uh now. And u um I kind of questioned them during the meeting. It's, you know, facing north on a January day, the poor kids that have to stand or kids or whoever has to stand out there, it uh it'll be interesting. >> Uh but uh that it's their business model, so we'll see how it works for them. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and >> yeah, um my thought went back to our discussion around um heat maps. So with the redevelopment, like this isn't using Ruby Tuesdays, it's raising the building and tearing down and starting over. Would this be the rhyme and reason to accommodate or address the heat mapping discussion that we had? They've got a sea of parking. >> They're going to put a tiny building that's drive-thru only. Is this the opportunity to create a green space and fill in the pavement or not? I mean, it's a drop in the ocean compared to Walmart and Kohl's and all those other buildings. But if we talked about we have all these spaces and if they get redeveloped and redone, >> it's the opportunity to talk about what the heat mapping or heat island, that's the word I wanted, the heat island. Um, >> they don't know the parking lot to the south. >> They own it to the west. So, >> one thing I did not do a calculation of that. One thing to take note of is the uh amount of green space is actually increasing uh on the site where they're redeveloping. Sure. >> Um and there are islands that are landscaped if you look at like the aerial photographs. >> Um I didn't do a calculation to see if they met that because again they weren't disturbing that portion of it. >> Um but again, if you want to take a further look at that and >> Mr. Chair and members, they actually do have less there's less impervious surface area than what there is right now in the city engineer about that. So, it does get to that point of it is reducing the overall impervious surface um of this area. So, I mean it makes sense. They've got, you know, very minimal parking for their employees um there and so it's it's a pretty efficient use of the site in my opinion. >> So, they're not taking down all those trees. >> Uh there are trees coming down. Um I'm not saying that there won't be trees coming down. There are some trees that are going to come down, I believe. Um, but the green space um is actually getting slightly larger than what they have currently through Tuesdays right now. >> Yeah, just it'll be a big open parking lot at that point. Um, the other question I had was I hadn't seen this DWSMA before. I've seen the watershed district conversation come up several times. I hadn't heard about this vulnerability thing before. is like is this like right above an aquifer close to a pump station? What is the vulnerability aspect of this site and what is >> Right. So, I'm not your city engineer, but uh and Jake, chime in if I'm if I'm leading these people down the wrong path, but it's part of an area where uh they cannot put infiltration basins in. Um so, you know, we're dealing with that right now. there's other techniques that they can engineer uh uh ways to address the storm water with Browns Creek. Um so >> yeah, that's a good synopsis that is Yeah, you really just within the Disma, you can't have the infiltration basins >> um essentially. So >> it's just protecting our drinking water. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just everywhere else in the city. I hadn't seen that yet. It was, oh, we got to talk to Browns Creek. that this one had an additional layer of complexity that I hadn't seen before. >> And the interesting thing is you know the rules changed. So when this was first developed in 2004 uh you know the storm water was dealt with uh for the entire development including this site. Uh but with the changes in the rules uh with the wershed district uh again they were probably going to have to put some more effort into storm water treatment. >> That's all I have. We don't see that it's going to um alter the site to any great extent. You know, maybe something underground that they >> Yeah. Nothing visual disruptive, just uh >> that I'm aware of. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Anything else for Mr. Richards? >> All right. I will uh open the public hearing here at 6:38. So, those in the audience who wish to speak to this, including the applicant, you are more than welcome to come up and address the commission. State your name, please. And thank you. >> Yep. Uh my name is Jerry Wendle. I'm with Seven Brew. Just to kind of answer any questions you got. Um but yeah, everything I heard is pretty accurate. Um done a nice job kind of going through all the documents. Um they it's a it's a drive-thru concept only. They will only serve drinks. there's no food. Um they queue up about 18, I think. And then if it if for some reason the queue gets a little higher than that, they have a what's called a texture that'll go out there and then they'll route the traffic into that that parking lot to the west, which I think was shown in the traffic traffic control plan there. Um each site, uh they're coming into the area now. Um they employ between 40 and 50 people per per location. Uh there's going to be about 12 to 14 or so employees working at one time. And um yeah, they're they're very similar to Chick-fil-A. You know, they're going to come out to you. They're going to greet you and take your orders and more of a personal experience than a speaker box. Anyway, um you think about That's that's the majority of what I know about it. Um, building finishes, I think it it's a it's a nice looking building. It's pretty unique. Um, you will see it, so that's good. And it will drive a lot of traffic to the area. Um, order counts I've can range on any given day, but somewhere between 500 to a,000. So, they're going to I mean, that's that's historically some of their other sites. So, they will be some people coming around and moving, which I think brings some good energy into the area. It's B. I went down to Ruby Tuesdays before. I mean, there's already a lot of energy around. So, I'm sad to see the Ruby Tuesdays go. They used to be by my houses and love their salads, but things change. So, um happy to answer any questions you might have. The building um in total It's about 800 little square feet um between the the cooler building and the area that they kind of operate in. Um the mechanicals are kind of up in that taller area there. Um very similar to the caribou cabin concept. >> Is it a national company? >> Yeah, they're they're all over. They're averaging um I'm I follow them on LinkedIn. They're they're they're open on average about store per day. >> Oh my gosh. Yeah. And they're out of Kentucky. >> Yeah. The this group, Globe Brands, is out of Louisville. Um, great guy. We've been fortunate to be working with them and partnering with them. Um, I've built a we built a lot of coffee places. I'm a builder. >> Okay. >> Um, so I'm I'm here representing them, but we we will be the the person actually putting it up assuming >> things go well. Okay. >> Um, but we do all we'll take pride in when we when we if it if it goes through that we take care of our sites. We we make sure it's screened off. We're pretty diligent in making sure it looks it's not not it's my name on a company so I don't want to I don't want to see something going up that doesn't look good. But uh construction's probably about a fourmonth process right in there. Um It's entirely thick frame building on site. Previously, they had been doing pre pre-built buildings. Um they're having some challenges with that. So, they've they're going to move to start a stick frame, which I think will be um honestly the quality of the building will be better. >> So, I've I've seen a lot of pre-built stuff on the sites and generally it's a great concept, but it doesn't always come as tight as you'd like to see it. >> It's not like a portable shed. >> No. >> And you want it to last, too. So, um but yeah, I think um some of the beverages just uh I mean they have a made to order a lot of made to order beverages. They they've got coffee, tea, Italian sodas, which I'm interested in seeing myself. Uh smoothies, shakes, energy drinks, hot chocolate. I was told we're finishing up the one Vadness Heights right now that they have 20,000 combinations. >> So, uh I don't know if you had one a day if you'd ever get there. >> Um pretty incredible. So, I'm we're happy to be working with them. Typical hours um 5:30. So, like on a a Sunday through Thursday, uh they'd open 5:30. We're close about 10. Um and then on uh Friday, Saturday, the hours are the same except they close about 11. >> So it's 5:30 to 11 on those days. Um trying to think um I I heard the comment also about um the LED lighting. >> Um there is a detail where they shroud that. So it's a down light that washes the walls. Um just and I have I kind of have a here. I could walk around to show you guys if you're interested. >> I I personally know what you're talking about. I don't need to see it. Do you want to see it? >> Yeah, we received a picture today. Um and again, that is not not allowed under our lighting ordinance even with the trout. So, >> is it just LED or is it LED neon any type of uh built uh I'm trying to think how it says color wraps, building wraps, that sort of thing or or just detailing. They a lot of places will do it on on a paraput. Um we're just we have never allowed that and every it seems like every fast food uh restaurant that has come in we've had to say no to them because they all want to do it. >> Okay. just part of our our very strict lighting requirements. >> Just trying to see if there was some way of washing. They want their building lit up. So they use the strips and the shroud to wash the walls. So is that a deal breaker if we can't come to common terms with the lights because that's kind of a big deal or would we have to uh think when we do a motion go across 36. I drive down 36 early this morning and Still Water's got their hotels lit up with huge lights and I'm like, what's the point? >> Well, what about the cigar the cigar shop, too? >> I mean, yeah, they got crap all over the place. >> We're working on that right now. In fact, I just talked to Julie about it. There's a lot of lot of signage there. >> I'm trying to determine if they're pushing actually what they're allowing, especially with their window sign. Um, but again, we we've said no consistently on those uh uh on those detailing architectural detailing lights. So, >> strip lights >> seems like a small thing to me, but >> you know, it goes back to u the city with uh light pollution and >> I get it, but when you have your neighbors like lightening it up, >> especially on 36, like what's the point? because we've made that effort. Um, you know, you can really tell the difference as you're driving in between the two communities and the lighting stand. >> We're doing our small part. >> Yeah. But we're allowing like orange and green cannabis places. What'sever. >> All right. Any other questions for the applicant? I've got a couple, but um >> yeah, on the lighting it is just it was more that's how their brand is. they can't answer if it's a deal for them or anything like that. But >> by using the shrouding, they're they're they're focusing on the walls, not trying to pollute out. >> So, it's just to build the building. I think it looks nice, but >> respect what you >> appreciate that. Um for uh the concept on the screens, there's a slip lane on the north side. Is that kind of like, oh, I changed my mind. I don't want to order coffee and I can exit up on the plan north side. Is that what that is? >> Yeah, I you you could if you're on the inside lane, it'll get >> Yeah, you're stuck. >> Yeah, true. >> But >> so it's an option, but >> I I believe it is. I I wasn't part of that design part of it, but I think it is. Usually there's something like that. >> Sure. Um, >> and they have a lot of people on these sites, so if a condition did come up, I'm sure they could >> help get you lane. >> Yeah. The other one was the texters. I hadn't seen that before and I've honestly never gone to Chick-fil-A. Nothing against them, just never have a chance. So, I haven't seen the besides the new car wash in town or we're going to come and meet you at the pylon. Um, good on those individuals, the high schoolers or who whomever to go sit out in January and go or some coffee, but it is the white glove, the personal touch. So, >> whoever uh the Kentucky franchise is that wants to come up here. Yeah, that was going to be my one question is um how many establishments in cold climates um are there and how successful has that been especially given you know winter conditions where you have high school students standing out in the cold for hours. >> There's a um I'm not sure if there's one in Fargo offhand. I know there's one in St. Cloud. Okay. >> And it is doing very well. Okay. an electrician I work with, he lives in St. Cloud and he says that place is full of >> always busy >> all the time. And it's it was it's had a winter. >> Um >> if um yeah, we live in Minnesota. I thought it was spring. >> I walked in here full of snow. So yeah, >> they're building one at Bandis Heights. other I don't know >> trying that Dairy Queen doesn't seem to struggle. >> Yeah, Mr. Chair and planning commission members. >> When we were talking with the petitioner early on, they did say that there were heaters outside. So, it wasn't like the um employees are just sitting out or in the cold with no protection. Um I assume that's still going to be the case. That was one of our initial meetings that we had. I believe there will be heaters for the employees. when they're outside. So they climate here. >> That's not something we got to put in our motion. >> We've noticed >> Oh, that's a interesting point. Any other questions for the applicant before uh we let him rest his legs. >> Is the texter a person? I'm assuming, not a sign. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And they they if the queue gets to >> Yeah. >> nine per line or 18. >> Yeah. That's when they get sent out. >> Sure. >> Um do you plan to wipe out all those trees? >> Um I I got to look at the plan. I'm not sure how the how the demo drive. I mean those it looks to me like that. I remember seeing it that transformer and there are trees to the right of it. Um, you know, transport is next to Ruby Tuesdays right now. So, anything left of it obviously looks like it's probably going to be in trouble. Um, >> I think there was the one of the pages in our packet had a landscape plan. Yeah. >> Yeah. 21 had a very clear letter from Lisa or arborist that just was probably seeking clarity of, you know, a survey of what's existing. um just the the detailed nature because normally there's there's like a tree plan that says this is what's here, this is what's going, this is what's staying, this is what we'll add. Um so Lisa will be very thorough with you guys to make sure that everything is um up to snuff. So >> I think there's Yeah, there's some going back and forth there. I don't think that's settled at all. >> Yeah, we'll make sure. >> We're a tree city, so got to make sure that uh we uphold that. So in the city right now. >> Um, >> anything else, everybody? >> Coke is right there. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. So, I'm hopeful everything we appreciate. I appreciate your time tonight. Um, up in Prior Lake, so it was kind of nice to come. I >> I haven't been up here in quite a while, so it was kind of fun. >> Sorry, we're sending you home in bad weather. >> I I subscribe and live here. So, but yeah. any any questions? I'd love to anything else. Happy to answer them. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um would you be interested in coming up? If you have anything you want to ask, questions, concerns, you're >> no. Oh, perfect. >> Just a citizen. >> All right. Perfect. Thanks for being here. Just want to make sure if you had anything. Um otherwise, I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing. >> There's so move to close the public hearing. A motion. And is there a second? >> I'll second. >> All right. Uh, all those in favor say I. I. I. >> All right. Um, yeah, pretty straightforward, guys. Um, another coffee shop. Good to use the space. Sorry, Ruby Tuesdays, but nobody wants your building. >> Yeah. >> Um, what do you guys think? uh didn't have any questions with transparency. It's a small enough building. The Caribou and Still Water didn't have much um conflict either, I'm assuming. So, uh they got the glass where they need the glass. >> Um strip lighting seems to be a theme. I think that's the one >> Yeah. comment I would pitch to uh city council is that's two applications in a row where strip lighting or LED lighting is in there not to the car wash extreme but just there's there's kind of a standard coming or there's kind of interest coming about >> LED strip lighting >> LED lighting and we have a very properly rigid or improperly rigid ordinance about lighting and like Mr. Richard said it's you can see the disparity in town. Um >> so the issue with that is it's not considered full cut off. >> So you know there is shielding but it may not uh shine up but it's shining out. So >> the global >> that's that's the issue that we've had long term with any type of >> any type of lighting. >> Yeah. >> Just having this type of lighting >> seeing the trend on one evening. Um, >> you don't have to follow trends. >> No, I know. I'm just saying it out loud. >> Sure. >> So, I didn't have any issues. >> There's a big issue. It's the lighting. >> Well, on number four, it says outdoor lighting turned off one hour before closing. Number three says color wraps neon strips not allowed. So, that addresses the concern, right? I think it would be nice to have new business in there and if this one little thing is gonna >> I can't imagine, you know, no. When we've said no to everyone else, they say, "Okay, >> okay, fine." Yeah. >> You know, this isn't a deal killer, right? >> Yeah. I think we had the same thing come up with Dave's Hot Chicken where we said like like it was both signage and lighting and they were just like, "Ah, we can go with it." >> Um, I think it would probably be the case for this company as well. If they have a a strong objection, I'm sure they'll they'll voice it at the city council. >> Okay. I would entertain a recommendation. >> Make a recommendation to approve >> as stated. No, no changes. >> I mean, unless somebody you you seem to have some concerns about trees. I don't know. Did you need to see more on that? >> That's in there. We have a condition related to that. >> Yeah. >> As as presented, approve. >> We got a motion. Is there a second? >> I second. >> We got a motion and a second. Um any further discussion on the motion? >> Hearing none. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Uh so move or so carries. Um so city council will see you guys on the 24th of March. So, um, yeah, again, we're the recommendation. They'll make the final decision on, um, what's going on. So, thanks for being here. Um, we're going to keep rolling here. Um, seeing we have no new business, we have no old business. >> Anyformational city council's on the 24th. We're going to have interviews on the April meeting, >> potentially 5:00 pm. More to come. I think we're on the final bullet point. Everybody >> make a motion we adjourn. >> I second. Motion a second. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Good to see everybody. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks everyone. >> Thank you.