all right welcome to the June 5th 2024 Oakdale Economic Development commission regular meeting we're going to take roll call Jeff here Bobby here Dave Tony here Frank here Stacy Gary here Robert here and pay all right we are going to move to the Pledge of Allegiance Frank if you'd like to lead us sure I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republ for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right on to the approval of agend agenda hopefully everyone has reviewed the minutes from the February meeting can I have a motion to approve the agenda as presented I'll move that second second second all in favor please signify by saying I I I motion carries oh sorry that was for the agenda now we'll approve the minutes any discussions or corrections to motion or to approve the minutes so moved second motion carries all right we will move on to the open Forum which we will start the open Forum with the advisory body training for the EDC which is presented by City administrator Chris fuler city clerk Sarah lewig and City attorney Jim Thompson hi madam chair Commissioners thanks for having me um thank what we're going to do is um the council asked for us to do some standard training and talk about um a lot of things that have to do with your jobs as Commissioners and we've done this with four maybe of five commissions three of five so you're the fourth is that right you're the fourth of five so um bear with us you know we kind of jump all over but we'll try to be very succinct here um please interrupt us if you have any questions don't wait till the end okay um we'll also offer there's a couple places we pause in here but feel free to um interrupt us what we're going to talk about today is a little bit about the city as a whole and then we're going to talk about um your agendas and kind of the rules surrounding that you know our city code outlines exactly how we're supposed to um handle meetings and that applies to the commissions as well and so the council is interested in more consistency and we really it's been um unfair to all of you because we haven't provided this information until now so we want to take the time to do it um when we're done what we're going to do from now on is any new commissioner will get trained in July after their appoint and so you won't have to sit through this every July but every July we will do another training for those who haven't been through it so you all have the same information okay we're going to emphasize a lot about um working with your Council aison which is Noah her and then it's also Max as your staff leades on and um we we want to encourage any conversation to be among them between you and them and not as a group because there are open meeting laws and we'll talk about that as well okay so I'm going to do a little bit we're going to pop to Sarah she'll do the details of the agenda Etc and then Jim Thompson is our City attorney for Oakdale and he's our um parliamentarian and he will go over Robert's Rules and all the um state laws concerning open meeting and so forth okay so before I get started any questions or anything all right okay so thank you again for being here and thank you for giving us the time and we'll move this along as quickly as possible um the agenda today we're going to talk about City information we're like I mentioned we're going to talk about boards and commissions 101 just kind of why here um and the structure around that meeting information Legal Information I'll jump back and do Communications and then we'll open it up for questions City information five uh one mayor four council members five member elected a council you've got mayor zabble here um um Noah her is your leison oh wait I got the wrong one here okay I'm going to go back to that um there's the pictures here um uh council member iner britson he has been on the council a while he is up for election but is not running he has continued to say um council member morom um he's new he's only been on the council well he's elected a year a little over a year ago and then council member will libring has been on the council for quite a while so um if we go back the city has a Mission Vision core values um statement that they wrote a long time ago well before my time well before I think any of the council members times too we are working on a strategic planning effort and we are going to be updating this and I expect that that will be a conversation with you along the way as well currently though we the the values we use in every hiring or every position that we hire we advertise it with employees we talk about it in um any HR matters the mission statement is probably needs a little work because it's a little old but um you can see it there I'm not going to read it to you but the car values we really do believe that these are kind of what we do why we're here we're here to serve employees are here to serve Commissioners that's what you're here to do too is to provide the Public's perspective and in doing that the respect responsibility sustainability Excellence Integrity Innovation it's words we we really need to live by and we do um organizational chart for the city um we've got the the elected body who are the policy makers the mayor and councel they hire um a city administrator who runs the operations essentially for the city who's responsible for that and I report directly to them and then we've got the City attorney who's on contract with the city I work with them our directors work with them all the time um the council approves his contract he provides all our legal advice on everything so if you ever have a situation a question um anything that you're thinking might be a conflict or anything like that you want to talk to your staff Le aison who will connect through to your to our City attorney to help with that okay and then we've got the commissions and what you guys are here for is to support the council they appoint you we we are not we staff are not direct giving you Direction it does say in the city code that you will take direction from me or the council but it is a council's role you are their um you their appointee and and many of you when you did your interviews I was there of course but but the um just to provide support and that's what I'm here for is to Pro to provide support to the residents and to um the elected officials and to help the staff however they need that and be the Le on so that's kind of our organizational structure does anybody have any questions about that okay staff leadership so this is our internal operational leadership so um as I'm Chris fulkers and we did the introduction Andy gsof you know and Andy he is a community development director Communications manager is Lori pulker she used to be a council member for 20 years and she's been employed with us for a few years now and she's wonderful everybody on this team is wonderful Kyle is our new Finance director and he has um been promoted he was our accounting manager before and now he's our finance director um the fire chief Kevin W is wearing two hats right now he's doing public works also don't ask him about it he's not overly happy about that he's helping us out but it's hard um human resource director Melanie Lee um police chief Nick Newton and our Recreation superintendent Julie and that is our management team so that's the structure very high level I just wanted to make make sure that I was clear that the policy is the council we're operations City staff we work together and that's why it works in Oakdale because we have a team environment we're very proud of that so any questions about that no okay so I'm gonna let Sarah take over the boards and commissions hi good evening everyone thank you for allowing me to be here so as Chris said I am the city clerk and I'm going to go over boards and commissions 101 and then meetings 10 1 so I'll first I'll start here with the boards and commissions the city of Oakdale has five advisory bodies we have a tree board a Planning Commission Parks and Recreation Commission the economic development commission and the Environmental Management commission each advisory body is assigned a staff liaison our city planner Luke mclanahan is the staff liaison for the Planning Commission we have two staff liaison for the parks and Recreation Commission Recreation superintendent Julie Williams and then Park superintendent Jeff King you all know Max he's there the staff liaison for your commission and then Community Development specialist Hannah Dunn is the staff liaison for the Environmental Management commission and then currently we have Chief wal acting as the staff liaison for our tree board but once we fill the position of City Forester that person will then be the treat board staff leaon so Chris alluded to this a little bit so why do we have advisory bodies we you all are here to advise the city council and also we want to allow a way for residents to have meaningful participation in local government there are a few guiding documents that the advisory bodies uh follow first is the city code so each advisory body has a dedicated section in their city code I believe Crystal touch on that at the end of the presentation there is also a city policy specifically dedicated to our advisory bodies and that's um CC 00002 it's city council advisory boards and commissions and then lastly something new that we have heard feedback from uh you all is that we you want a handbook so you want kind of some guidelines on general policies and procedures and we are working on finalizing that and that will be sent out electronically once we do have that that finalized there are a few things that advisory bodies do so as we've mentioned providing feedback to the Council on initiatives goals the annual plan and any other items that um they seek your feedback on you provide recommendations to the city council and you also act in ways like participating in City initiatives projects events and other things so there's a few ways that the work of the advisory body is initiated through the board and commission itself through the city council and then lastly um through the city administrator and tou touching on a little bit of the work plan um it is a document that guides and focuses the work of the advisory body and it it's used during the monthly meetings and also throughout the year it's something that can detail annual ongoing items or specific projects and annually each advisory body drafts a work plan and they take feedback from the city council which usually occurs during um the workshop with the city council and then once you incorporate that feedback then you will approve it at your meeting there are a few things that the advisory bodies do not do the first thing is direct the work work of City staff take responsibility for the financial performance of City facilities or programs and this is because commissions and Boards do not have Financial Authority and then lastly speaking on behalf of the city or the advisory body without permission or discussion prior any questions so far okay there are a few special roles within advisory bodies first is the chair they are elected annually at the first meeting of the year and it's the presiding officer at all meetings they are the person that's responsible for keeping the meeting moving assuming everyone has reviewed the material ahead of time there is also a vice chair and that person is elected annually as well and they will preside over the meetings in the chairperson's absence the staff liaison which I've touched on is the support staff for each advisory body they will attend the meetings participate in the discussions as appropriate and they also arrange for the recording of the meetings they prepare the agenda and then they take the minutes during the meeting the council liaison is a member of the council that is assigned to The Advisory body they also attend the regular meetings they provide any updates from the council to The Advisory body but then of course they go the other way and they provide information from your meetings back to the council and then lastly we have EX officio members and that's a specific designation for a member such as a student and that person is non- voting and then looking here at the annual calendar for advisory bodies at the first meeting as I mentioned you'll vote on your officers chair and vice chair and then in January or February depending on meeting schedules there's an appreciation event with the city council and that's where you will likely discuss your work plan with them and then in July we have our new member orientation or training and then also that's when the new terms begin for those members who have been reappointed and then lastly in the fourth quarter you're going to be working on that uh that annual work plan that you'll be discussing with the council all right question yes okay um is it is it a good objective to try and get the c or the uh commissions to turn over you know some people have been here Bob and I have been here for what 20 years or so is it probably a good idea to rotate I mean I mean I don't know I I wouldn't say we would want you know to kick people off of the commissions at all you know if you if you're passionate about what you're doing if you're dedicated absolutely continue to come and share your thoughts and ideas we NE never would we say all right you're done okay there was a period one time when they they turned over a couple of they started a new policy I mean this is years ago they started a new policy where after three years five years whatever I can't remember they would eliminate a person give them a Walkin papers basically and and then you know try and get somebody new on the commission and it didn't work very well because um they got rid of about two or three people and that was it and they never did anymore because they think they might have had trouble filling those positions gotcha yeah anyway any way so but I just want to say Bob and I have been here since about 1985 right Bob I love that yes so no yeah I mean if you think we if you think we're getting old and worn out or something I mean you probably should let us know that will not come from me we can gracefully retire Frank I think in my opinion there's value to have that true background and educational experience to contribute well we've got it okay all right that's my question y any other questions okay all right now we're going to discuss uh commission meetings and what you guys need to know about those so commission meetings 101 there are a few types of meetings for our advisory bodies though regular meetings are going to be the most common type and those have the established Cadence of the dates and the times and the place uh your meetings of course are the first Wednesday of each month excluding January April July and October beginning at 5:15 here in our council chambers as we talked about uh Max or the staff liaison will take the minutes and then of course the meetings are recorded there are a few key components of minutes and these guidelines follow the follow Robert's Rules of Order which is what we use through our meetings so with that the minutes will have the meeting name date time and place they'll have who was in attendance at the meeting they'll have the approval or Corrections of any previous minutes any motions that were made including who made the motion and then Who provided that second a summary of what happened any other action that was taken as well and then generally speaking the minutes will be a record of what was done not what was said looking at the agenda as I mentioned the staff liaison in consultation with the chair will create the agenda we do ask that all of our advisory body members come prepared so that's reviewing the agenda and any related materials prior coming with your questions emailing Max ahead of time with any comments or questions is is okay as well and then following the agenda so keeping on that order of business this is what our typical agenda will look like we'll have the header which includes that name date type of meeting and place um and then the body will go through the uh order of business here so you'll have your call to order which will be done by the chair the call of rooll is a verbal call out of each member's name and then we do ask that the staff leason performs that roll call The Pledge of Allegiance the approval of the agenda which would be as presented or as amended same with the minutes as presented or as amended and then we have the open Forum period which I know is something new for our advisory bodies so that's a time for public comment and we do ask that it is run in the same manner as our city council which follows our city policy Mis 014 and that's just to allow uh members of the public to speak so we ask even if you don't see anybody here please still open uh open up that time to just ensure that everyone understands there is a time in place to come and speak at meetings the economic development commission review old business I got oh oh I'm sorry yeah yeah I just saw this um so for the open form are is there any consideration for remote attendance or does this have to be inperson attendance I know this has come up in other venues and I thought I'd just ask it here I'm looking to our City attorney to see what the response might be okay yeah or Chris question um pick up topic didn't I so have you been reading the paper about other cities that have opened it up to opened up Council meetings and commissions um remote they've had some problems with that um people showing up and then um remote that aren't even from the area from the state could be elsewhere and um what they call it Zoom bombing yes and it becomes unruly and then it's bad with swearing and all this other stuff so anyway my point is that has happened in many many many cities just Google it and in St Paul Minneapolis Pine your press star trib so I don't know if that's a reason because I'm not going to speak for the council but that certainly is a reason that staff has not rep or has not um proposed that at this point okay until that settles down yeah you know with with the co pandemic and people staying working remote that's was a common occurrence but right you know I think we're trying to get back to more of a normal um uh presentable access and I personally love seeing the person I face to face you know so it's a lot easier to understand them that way too I find there are for for us there's open meeting law concerns that were waved or reduced or the requirements were reduced during the pandemic because of the pandemic but okay yeah um some of these meetings we have to have in public if if you work remote you attend a meeting remote as a commissioner technically you have to open up your home for people to come in so doesn't that is a excellent point in fact our City attorney can address that when he's talking about about you guys and Council right doing remote your absolutely right I don't know nearly as well but there are open meeting while concerns okay that's true I don't know lot open Forum public but at least for us yeah so I was just I know I was aware of such situations and I thought I knew what we were going to do but I just wanted to clarify you know make it clar good question clear well ask the City attorney though to address that about you guys and about Council being remote There are rules about that but we can go over that no problem okay thanks all right thank you so the economic development commission review any new business that'll be formally coming before the council or excuse me before the commission for the first time then under the other section we have a few updates so your staff liaison May provide an update on other matters outside of agenda items commissioner update is the time for you all to be able to share any updates that you may have and then of course the council liaison update will be the time for your Council liaison to share those updates that I had mentioned earlier and then we have adjournment which does require a motion and a second moving on to attendance and recruitment attendance is important of course to perform the work of the commissioner board and chronic absences may lead to member removal current commission members city council City City staff and staff Liaisons all play a role in recruiting members and then ideally we want to make sure the advisory body rosters remain full where where are we at right now are we have a full roster believe we have two vacancies yeah two vacancies here yeah all right we're moving on to aquarum so aquarum is the minimum number of voting members that must be present in order for the advisory body to conduct business and then if a quorum is present at the beginning of the meeting the Quorum must be maintained throughout the meeting in order for the advisory body to conduct business all right so ethical and respectful conduct we do ask that you please avoid speaking over or cutting off another individual insulting disparaging or putting people down or their ideas bullying any other members or members of the public by um making demean me judging or patronizing comments and then throughout the meeting again we just ask that the chair maintain order and then things to strive for for ethical and respectful oh yeah this ethical and respectful conduct when you look at TV and you watch the our Congress and our Senators and local National not Ted it is so disgusting I mean the the good ethics has been gone it's out the window and then and nobody seems to care and nothing nothing is being done about it I mean I don't know what you can do other than flog them that would be that would be my answer but what do I what do I know that's that's so old school yes but it it's just so disgusting to see this and yeah anyway so things to avoid we can still set the example I think yeah yeah exactly and repres Oakdale of course all right and so here's what you want to strive for so you using Robert's Rules of Order treating people with kindness politeness and courtesy encouraging others to express their opinions and ideas listening to what they have to say and then also recognizing that there may be differences in opinions and respecting that then lastly the standards of appearance and etiquette so business casual address is appropriate at Council excuse me commission meetings um speak clearly into the microphone for the best audio quality do not speak until called upon by the chair which just helps maintain that order and then lastly remaining quiet when the on air sign is turned on prior to the meeting and then after adjournment so any questions before I turn it over to our City attorney okay hi um I'm Jim Thompson I'm the am the City attorney I've been the City attorney since 2010 I'm with a private law firm named Kenny engraven the city contracts with our Law Firm to do civil work so I'm not an employee uh um uh yeah enough said about that uh so the first thing I I drew the short store on this and was told I have to give you all the details of Robert's Rules so uh we're going to have show a little video on that uh the main thing to keep in mind on Robert's rules um it goes a little bit longer with your comment that Robert's rules are designed to help you run an efficient meeting they're not designed to have obstructions and interference with your meetings which is a lot of the rules that are in the Senate and Congress they use all these rules to obstruct stuff going on that's not the purpose of Robert rules purpose of Robert rules is to help you facilitate an orderly meeting uh and get things done not to impede things from getting done that's at the local level that you know that's pretty much the case we don't have too much problems with uh interference at the local level okay yep okay so we got a short video that gives you the basics of Robert rules and on Robert's Rules of Order to ensure that all meetings run effectively this video will go through the basics of Robert's Rules and how they work to make meetings more efficient to keep meetings on track all orders of business are organized in an agenda that lists the various items that will be discussed at the beginning of our meetings members will vote on the adoption of this agenda only after the agenda is adopted can the meeting proceed at the core of Robert's Rules is the creation of motions which are formal proposals for an organization membership to take a stance or take action on a certain issue to make a motion you must first obtain the floor to do so you must wait for the chairperson to call on you after the last speaker has spoken when making a motion ensure that it is clear concise and stated in the affirmative this is not the time to elaborate on your motion or try to motivate for it you will get the opportunity to justify your motion during the discussion period however before discussion can begin another individual must second your motion otherwise it is lost note you don't have to be in support of a motion in order to Second it seconding simply means that you would like to see further debate and discussion happen if your motion has been moved and seconded it is placed before members for consideration and debate the Mover is always allowed to speak first and is given the opportunity to justify their motion during discussion only one speaker may speak at a time at any point during the discussion an individual can move to amend or modify a motion saying I move to amend the motion followed by the changes they wish to make after all discussion and Amendments have taken place members will vote by a show of hands whether or not they support the motion if the majority of members vote Yes then the motion passes as I'm in the midst of applying for residency right now wish me luck grammarly has again been just the okay so the one thing that's different on that that you don't do is you just don't vote you don't vote I shower hands you have eyes and N but that's intended for like a large body like a townhous Association or something like that so that's the basics you know you probably know them in your in your case most of your motions will be motions to recommend something to the city council and in the staff reports typically they'll have suggested wording that you can rely on to do that you don't have to use that wording if you want to do something else but at least it gives you a head start on on uh the framework to make a motion so enough said about Robert's Rules and I hope you don't have any questions happy have me let me know okay um all right quickly the role of the chairperson sah sort of already covered this but the chairperson resides at the official meetings and make sure the group reviews and acts upon the items that are on the agenda and you are the chair also is expected to ensure that decisions are made in a timely manner and but careful not to limit discussion uh assuring that both members of the public and the board and commissions have apple opportunity to speak all right so now what I'm going to go into is really four laws uh that apply to you as commissioner members that didn't apply to you no matter how long ago you were appointed but didn't apply to you before you became a commission member if you're just a resident you're not governed by these laws now that you're on a a board or commission specifically Economic Development commission these laws now apply to you so all I want to do is make you aware of them I'm not going to go into a lot of details just so you know about them in case any questions come up you can certainly work through Max and they can you know run them by me so the first one which I'm sure you all familiar with is the open meeting law and what that purpose of that is to prohibit actions from being taken at secret meetings ensures that the Public's right assures the Public's right to be informed and allows the public an opportunity present its views to the public body so the uh open meeting law has been around now since over 50 years long time okay um you would think that a oh sorry yeah I'm just curious um a lot of times there's been problems with Council people or people in Authority meeting after hours in a bar having a drink m is what's the legality is there okay hold that question we're going to get to a slide and we can talk about that if that's okay not that specific issue about going to bars but okay okay just hang out of that because Okay so uh you would think that uh a new law that comes into place known as the open meeting law would Define what a meeting is but the legislature didn't do that they adopted a law that says you know make sure all your meetings are open but um they didn't Define the term so in 1983 uh the Minnesota Supreme Court defined it for us and it is defined as a meeting as a gathering of a quum aore of this in that case it was the city council at which they discuss decide receive information as a group on matters relating to City business going to stop there I'll go back to your question okay if a majority of a commission is at a bar and go out and and and socialize don't talk about City business it's not a meeting okay now having said that a word of caution okay you know when I go out with my friends and talk and have we talk about things we have in common all right what do you all have in common your members of a commission so there's a tendency that three or four you gathered you might be talking about something involving the city now maybe not something that would become before you so that's the risk the the risk is is is that now is it illegal no is to sometime create a perception perhaps um and I advise the Council of this it's not so much yours is normally um open meeting law uh issues don't come up unless a person is mad at the city council about something else okay they're mad about a decision and uh somehow they Gama well I want I know this wasn't made in a public meeting they use open meeting law as a um sort of a claim but they're really mad about something else the only uh entities that really uh um follow the open meeting law the news media right and they they're in it that's their they they they do it for I don't want to say cause it's too much but it only comes up incidentally Norm nor the time okay so that's the definition of a meeting keep in mind it does not mean it does not include the phrase uh at which a vote is taken and a decision is made sometimes you hear that definition meeting occurs if you discuss City business as a group don't have to make a decision now in 1983 there was no such thing as an electronic meeting because we didn't have these types of electronics we had back then so the court didn't have to deal what an electronic meeting is so that leads us to two two the main one I'm going to talk about is e devices emails and uh the question is what about email are they part are they um uh are they a meeting and I'm not going to get into too much legal EAS for you on this but there's actually a conflict in the rules on that I shouldn't say the rules the decisions there's a court of appeals decision called o'keef versus Carter from 2012 that said no I'll go into that in a second and there's a iPad advisory opinion iPad is a state agency that gives opinions out uh on open meeting law and that Practices Act and they disagreed so in the court decision the court concluded that email exchanges are not meetings because relying on the 1983 Court decision they believe the court me that a meeting assum assumes that the law applies to only in-person meetings not written Communications um so that was the Court's decision unpublished mean means it's not precedential you don't have to follow it then there was an iPad opinion uh from 20 2009 saying that emails among members of a joint Powers board that happened to the Metro gang strike task force concerning the need for and contents of a press release did violate the open meeting law now uh let me back up quickly what what happened in this case was there was a someone asked the executive director or the title was of the Metro Kang board we're going to post this story you have any comments on it the administrator calls all the uh board members they all relay and say Yes No and then there's a decision made and there's a there's a a press release issued well the iPad office said oh wait a minute there had to have been a a a meeting this is a meeting because a decision was made and it didn't get make make in the in the public Arena so iPad takes a pretty conservative viewpoint on this so what's my advice uh don't rely on the court of appeals decision um with respect to email excuse me with respect to the open meeting law treat emails or tweets or text messages or anything else treat them like a phone call all right if you all get on a conference call to talk about a upcoming agenda item that's a meeting you're all gathered together not physically gathered but you're gathered as a group to talk about it so if you treat emails and text messages like a phone call I think that's the safest advice now keep in mind if one way a one-way email you communicating to another member a quorum of the board is not a communication so a one-way email is not by itself a problem uh but you know we got that Doon reply to all button on our computers and once you hit the reply to all button on that's when you can get in trouble because now all of a sudden you're talking about something so uh so even though One Way email can sometimes turn into a series of events uh that's that could be hopefully would might constitute a meeting what's the advice work through your staff liaison if you have a communication work through Max uh and that's a lot safer now one other thing emails between commission members well almost even emails from you and staff they almost always going to be public data which I'll get into in a second so now that means if someone requests those those types of emails you'd have to produce them it doesn't mean we have to go out there and put them on the website uh but when you write emails keep that in the back of your mind that some days somebody might request emails or all the data relating to the XYZ project that came before you and all of a sudden you get some emails where you might have been more blunt than you otherwise would have been had you uh you know uh if you thought it was a private email so that's enough about open meeting law uh another potential issue that sometimes comes up you know you want your way out of the meeting or come to a meeting you for you meet in the parking lot you start talking be be careful of that um uh those types of situations okay Second Law data Practices Act all right you when you were a private resident just a private resident you know nobody your your your letters your everything there's no law that governs those okay but now now you are governed by the data Practices Act which uh is a very detailed status statute and it governs all government data uh government data is data relating to City business is the best way to put it the one thing I want to um uh reinforce or enforce is that government data does not depend on where it's located it depends on what the topic of the data is so if if you know you have a government a city issued phone or a city issu computer uh and you text your spouse and say do I need to pick up a quarter milk on the way home tonight that's not government data okay it's on the government piece of equipment but it doesn't relate to City business all right cont if you're on your own U iPhone and you're texting or or well texting primarily or emailing about something relating to City business that's government data it doesn't matter that it's on your private cell phone so just keep that in mind it's it's not the location of the data it's what the data is about um yeah so now uh you're not going to have any much issues with the data Practices Act uh because you know you don't get too much confidential stuff the one thing I always point out and this I guess this could come before the economic development commission but some when somebody calls or texts a city and or emails a city and said I got a the house next door to me is full of junk it's a property complaint data the identity of that person making the complaint is not public so if you were to ever get that type of communication just keep in mind that the identity of the person who's uh contacting you is not public it's private okay that's really it on the data Practices Act you know again if you ever have any questions um you know work through Max but you're not going to run into this issue very much okay the third thing is conflict of interests again now you have a law or it's not technically a law it's a principle uh uh that any member of advisory body who has a financial interest in or may receive a financial benefit as a result of a decision uh potentially has a conflict of interest you can't I shouldn't say potentially if you have a financial interest in a matter you do have a conflict of interest okay and you therefore you can't participate in matters uh that matter if you do have one dis you know disclose it and then abstain from discussing a voting I doubt that it comes up very much comes up in the city council periodically uh so just keep that in the back of your mind but if your brother-in-law or your you know cousin twice removed uh comes before you for something if you don't have any Financial interests that's not a conflict of interest that's that's like personal financial just for me for instance if I'm A lender and I have a loan involved with anything that's not personal interest yet I'm working for the institution that could be financing it which there's a benefit for the institution not me personally right that would be considered okay okay under this one it would now let me tell you about the other one okay all right there are situations that are not very that are somewhat rare where you could have a conflict of interest even though you don't have a financial interest an example would be if you're chairman chair of a local nonprofit organization or some nonprofit organization uh or private organization and that organization comes before you for some type of action now you wouldn't have a personal financial interest in it but the question is what hat are you wearing when you are you wearing your Economic Development commissioner's hat or are you wearing your I'm the president of this organization I really want this to be approved hat probably a conflict of interest okay even though you don't have a now your case I it's not exactly that so um but there are situations where you could have it now so having said all those two things you know you're you're you're appointed you volunteered to participate in these meetings and vote that's your main job just like the council members main job is to come to Council meetings and vote on stuff so you don't want to abstain unless you have a good reason to so there are situations where if it's a close call and you just prefer for appearance sakes you didn't want to have an appearance of impropriety that you feel it's more appropriate appropriate to abstain you could do that sure y uh okay okay so conflict of interest again if you get an agenda item and you say oh wait a minute this check with Max he'll check with me and we'll you know let you know ahead of time that happens I shouldn't say all the time but it comes up at city council ahead ahead of time and they ask me and I tell them one way or the other so okay then the last one there's a also a gift law uh that now applies to you which said just basically you can't receive a gift from an any interested person in conjunction with your advisory duties an interested person is is anyone who comes would have is interested in the outcome of a decision okay um don't let them they can't give you a gift okay so if some applicant is coming before you and wants to take you out to lunch before the mission that that would constitute a gift so again those types of things don't come up very very much the the kind of the way I I think about this is if you think somebody's giving you something because you're a member of the economic development commission probably a gift all right and you know we're not talking about relatives and that sort of thing so uh um probably enough said about that I think that's yeah so I'm going to go back so those are the laws you know high level you know about them if you have any questions feel free to and work through your staff Le aison I can help you answer them okay thanks oh I'm sorry you wanted me to cover the electronic meeting thing uh for the board okay uh yeah during Co there was a special there was a law already existed there was an easier way to do remote meetings when there's a pandemic we all know about that um now that doesn't exist anymore but there's still a statute that does allow public bodies to have remote meetings it's it's more restricted um uh and you have to post the meeting three days ahead of time saying you're going to do it yet where you're going to be has to be accessible to the public and so yes it's possible but staff needs to know you know I would say a week ahead of time so they can get the the um mechanics in place now having said that during covid um the first meeting for the city council they wanted to try it and let's give it a try all four of the five members of the council showed up one didn't he was home he saw that everybody was here and he drove down ever since then every meeting of the Oakdale Council was in person even during Co okay so now they you know they did Spa they did um social distancing they move the chairs around um so I can tell you from the 's perspective they think that's the right way to do it so maybe take your lead from that so there there are also procedural issues like you have to have a roll call vote and all like that but the council now that's a little different than people appearing they the council did let applicants and consultants and and they all appear a lot of them appeared remotely in R but that's a different question than you appearing remotely so the council took a very conservative uh point of view on that and just said no let's be here and that's what they did okay thank you thanks Jim um I want to get back to this a little bit just to clarify one thing Gary you were right that if you are going to be remote and you decide you need to for whatever maybe you're sick and you want to par whatever and you list your home address that does need to be accessible to the public you absolutely right about that so and that will go out on the agendas Gary's remote his home address is feel free to join him there no we won't say that but that is how it works so you're absolutely right about that so okay are there any other questions Frank did we answer your question about going to the bar pretty much so yeah I think that's a fine line though isn't it I mean uh would you have to have a like a quorum if enough people go to the bar but if just two or three what if just two or three guys go and have a bruski after open meeting only applies to a quum so if you have nine so maybe so three of you go out tonight after this and want go beer somewhere that's go for it it only applies if there's a quum pres okay yeah okay so we're wrapping it up here um thanks for your attention your questions have been great by the way thank you um we're going to talk about community communication um channels so we want you to be involved we want you to stay on top of things we want to provide the mechanism for you to do that however it works for you whether it's email where Max is sending you emails or it's um phone calls or or social media and that's what you're seeing up on the screen here there's all kinds of ways to get information about the city here's a list of all our our social media pages I will want to I do want to emphasize that um on our City website there is a subscription and I hope you're each signed up for it you you absolutely should be at least for your commission where you get any alerts or any updates on EDC you can get Council you can get the new Public Works facility there's all kinds of options of course as administrator I just went through and clicked all thousand of them right and so I get a thousand alerts but you might not want to do that but or you might but please look at the city website look at the subscription all you have to do is in the search bar goes subscription and you'll it'll pull up how to do that you just fill in your name um whether you want email or text that's it and then pick which subjects you want to so I really encourage you to do that you absolutely should do it for EDC at the very least so um max can help you get set up on that too if you need any help um city council communication um Jim talked a lot about this follow them on Facebook we encourage you to do that again you're here to support them and help them and guide them and provide information to them they want to hear from you but they also want you to know what they're doing so that's one way to do it we do all these meetings that you certainly know on YouTube um we have council meeting minutes um we have commission minutes we're standardizing all that you might have noticed a change recently on the minutes and we're we trying to kind of make them all look the same and and do it at high level we don't capture every word of a conversation we capture the action items and the summary of it and so we're getting better it's always a work in progress um on that annual work plan you you I is it on your agenda tonight you're approving your annual work plan that's a newer thing so I think is it on there Max yeah okay so that's great um thank you for doing that the council really appreciates that and really appreciates the discussions that you discussion that you have with them annually at the dinner which is one of the ones here please um continue to attend that they really appr they really like having that conversation with you it seems to be the best way that we've set up to have a full conversation we do it as a public meeting because it's a quorum of both your commission and the council um so we're glad to do that we want to keep doing that reach out to your Council leison speaking of council member her just texted me and said oh oh sorry he forgot to put this new date on his calendar so he feels awful he wants you to reach out to him direct if you have any questions and he is glad to answer that and he's standing by in fact he's watching right now so I want to extend his apologies for that um communicating with the public please we you are representatives of the public so you know from the public to you to council and so we really need you to talk to them talk to your neighbors talk to your talk to whoever talk to anybody in the grocery store whatever at the shop talk to anybody and get you know get information find out what they want from the city see what they want for development we want to hear this stuff we are not operating in a vacuum here we are the city of Oakdale and staff is here to serve so you need to bring information to us um tips ensure that this is important um decisions of the advisory body is based on the information you received not like inside information you have or anything like that and then when you decide as a group you move as a group the decision is a decision you should represent as a group that's what our best advice is um it doesn't serve anybody to say well they voted for this but I wanted this and here's why once you deliberate what you do right that's why you're here you take a vote you move as a group you decide as a group so that's our best advice on that um engage with the city social media I talked about that reposting please we've got a very active mayor on social media he has all kinds of information our fire department are Police Department all kinds of things share that on your social media platforms we want to get the word out and support the work of the city and commissions we as staff are trying to do that and we it goes both ways tell us what you need from us again we are here to serve so next steps um we need more folks on the commissions we need more residents we need more voices talk to your neighbors talk to your friends talk to any groups that you belong to that are Oakdale and encourage them to serve on a commission um we're getting full more full but we're not full full so um let's let's reach out to people um as an EDC commissioner our Economic Development commissioner read chapter eight Sarah mentioned this earlier that is your guide that is the rules there is no bylaws anymore there's City policy which kind of talks about what we're doing here training and appointments and stuff but um chapter eight of the city code that outlines what you're here for and what your charges and what the council expects of you please read that um I think you're going to get a book with each of their city codes or do they get that upon appointment yeah so you should either have that or we can easily get it to you Max can get it to you uh mandatory training we talked about that anything else you need please reach out that is what we're here for so any questions thank you good job thanks thank you great questions okay we're here if you have anything let Max know or let me know and we'll be glad to answer okay thanks all right we're now going to invite members of the public to speak if they wish to do so and we don't have any member of the public members of the public in attendance so we will close the open Forum all right next we're going to move into the economic development commission review and we'll first start with old business and I'm going to turn it over to Max to talk about our business retention expansion and attraction or Bria program update thanks Aaron so I'm excited to share with you some of the first business visits for this year's uh business retention expansion and attraction program cycle we have a lot of visits to cover since we last met in February as we started our visits right after February so I've got seven of them here for you tonight so I thought I would go through quickly what we've heard from each business at a bit of a faster Pace than we have in the past uh but still make sure that we hit the concerns of each business business that we've met with in the past few months so the first business retention visit of the Year occurred on February 9th at home furniture uh home is a Midwest based Furniture Store with uh 17 locations with the Oakdale site being one of the newest as some of you might remember back from 2022 the Home Furniture site is an Adaptive reuse project that used a pre-existing movie theater uh and you can see some of the creative reuse features when visiting uh can I get the staff presentation on [Music] screen generally uh home told us that approximately 50 uh people work there at the location and they were seeking tenants for two pad sites on the property they anticipated hiring a few more people for next year and felt that the business was generally going well uh with regard to the Oakdale location uh home praised the police and fire in our city and felt that the general a that they have off of 694 was really good for their business and they want to continue to do good business in Oakdale and feel free to interrupt me at any point if you have any questions as well I just well just curious on the uh the two or they were still inquiring for the two new tenants was there any interest they are uh back in 2022 there was talks of a brewery uh that project fell through um but they are still in the process of talking right now so for the second visit on February 20 uh we visited all Family Dental which is located by 11th Street in Hadley near the Waters of Oakdale uh generally they said business was going well they noted there were some major changes in the Dentistry industry including that uh dental insurance often doesn't cover some of the pro main procedures people get these days and uh many of the procedures covered had been the same since the 70s uh combined with increasing overhead costs uh they said that it creat issues for a lot of dental offices uh but they still found that income is consistent and they're doing well in Oakdale they have nine employees and they plan to have one or two more in the next year uh they say that most of their patients Drive uh but some older patients had issues with accessibility and would walk or take metr Mobility so they remain open to improving ways alternatives for people to get over there and with regard to Oakdale again we're hearing a lot of positive things about the location and accessibility and said that we could do more work to promote ourselves as a destination so next we have Canvas Health uh which the city visited on March 15th uh canvas is near Hadley in still water and provides mental and Behavioral Health Care uh for mental health issues and substance use they're are nonprofit that's certified as a community behavioral health clinic uh which allows them to have more funding and services and connect with clients through government programs uh they have 140 staff in Oakdale with 327 in total and Oakdale is sort of their main admin Hub and they do have more hires planned as well generally they were satisfied with Transportation but notice that some clients who weren't eligible for metr Mobility had issues with uh Metro Transit link which is like an on demand service that can have a couple hour wait for if you need service somewhere where the bus doesn't serve uh like others canvas was very uh happy with the location and accessibility of Oakdale in their specific office and didn't have many critiques for us uh then we met up with Marcus Theaters uh in Oakdale over in the northern end of the City by 694 and 36 uh Marcus Theaters actually goes back to 1935 with the Oakdale location opening in 2000 uh we visited March 19th and they told us that they were doing well they noted that a lot of big changes had occurred in theaters like Marcus in recent years including switching from SE Stadium style seating to more of those larger recliner chairs you see in a lot of the newer theaters um the addition of more food options than there were 10 15 years ago alcohol um and screen sizes as well uh generally they felt that theaters had recovered quite a bit from covid but they noted that the actor strike and the holiday season hurt quite a bit uh they stated they had 86 employees and would be hiring floor staff and shift leads this year they said they had issues with finding employees much like many other employers especially for food and beverage roles which can be really hard to fill and they really praised that Hadley roundabout that went in and said that it helped with the traffic flow issues up in that area uh and they wanted to see better bus service in the future uh they really like their location off of the two highways and uh from their experience getting a liquor license a few years ago uh they really said that the council was great to work with and that staff seemed overall very friendly to businesses in Oakdale all right just a few more here um next we visited open cupboard on April 3rd which is located off 4th Street by Guardian Angels uh this is nonprofit profit food shelf that serves more than 4,900 families each week uh they have considered considerable uh increases in demand in recent years with more than a th% growth during the height of the pandemic and still a 28% year-over-year increase from 2023 to 2024 uh they have eight employee full-time employees eight part-time and then more than 850 volunteers uh they have delivery services drive up services and in-person food shelf options they spoke very highly of working with the residents of Oakdale noting that many of their volunteers worked here and wanted to serve here or lived here uh they did suggest that we could improve Transit access in their area as some people who were disabled and needed food had trouble uh getting to their storefront next up on April 17th uh we visited Superior thirdparty Logistics which operates that brand new Warehouse in the Forefront campus uh if Annie attended the bus tour we took a look at the warehouse when we were at the Forefront campus so they operate a General Distribution Center with inventory management returns and other warehousing operations they said they did really well during the pandemic due to increased shipping demand but had leveled out somewhat they had 60 full-time staff for Oakdale and plan to hire another 10 to 20 laborers and they really appreciated uh oakdale's uh Public Safety team and appreciated the accessibility and visibility of their location off 694 in 34th Street uh though they said that Better Business access will be needed around Forefront as it continues to develop out in the next few years and then for our last business visit summary today uh we have game related which occurred about 2 weeks ago um which is located off of had in Century in the Northwestern end of Oakdale uh game related primarily focuses on game retail and hosting tournaments for board games and trading card games they reported that generally business has been stable and many people became interested in trading cards and board games during the pandemic uh they're a very small business with three employees and they noted that many of the youth that like to play games there uh often rely on public transit including the bus 219 on uh C Avenue uh generally they really spoke highly of how tight tighten it and safe Oakdale felt to them and they didn't have anything negative uh regarding conducting business in Oakdale so that is where we stand right now with our business visits and I know that was quite a bit of information we've got seven visits over uh just a few months here um so if you have any ideas for future business visits let me feel free to let me know feel free to shoot me an email and if if you have any questions regarding these visits Feel Free as well are there any more on the docket yet let me think I believe we have one that just occurred a day or two ago for the Forefront campus as a whole and right now um Tong our representative from the St Paul uh Chamber of Commerce is working on scheduling some new ones I'm not sure which one of of those have been SCH yet all right we will move to the next order of old business which is approval of the 2024 Economic Development commission work plan and I will again defer to Max thanks Aaron uh so if you recall late last year and uh Chris and Jim mentioned this a bit as well we worked on creating that Economic Development commission work plan which we reviewed with the city council at the appreciation dinner in February since then uh the council met in March to discuss all of the work plans and they did not recommend any additional changes to ours so with that the plan okay uh here we're just looking for a simple motion to adopt the 2024 work 2024 work plan um since since the last meeting was canceled we haven't quite had the chance to formally adopt it yet uh so please feel free to let me know if you have any questions with the work plan enter this item otherwise we're looking for a simple motion to adopt the E 2024 Economic Development commission work plan as as presented motion to adopt the um work plan as presented second it all in favor I I I motion carries all right and next for old business we will move on to the Oak development bust toour reflection yeah so we can keep this one short and light uh so thank you for everyone who was able to attend the development bus tour um as you might know we held our second ever bus tour on May 7th we had over 35 people come um we were able to look at development projects around the city and uh meet with elected officials and different other members of different city commissions and really catch up and talk to each other um I knew that I know that many of our EDC members were excited for this so I just wanted to open the floor see if anyone has any suggestions to help us make it better in the future if they have any interesting takeaways I thought it was just great it was done well it was we hit all the high spots I think I don't think we missed anything I thought it was just very good get together and I think it was good for us and good for so that we know what's going on I mean you you ride by these places you see them construction you run who when where and what and but this helped this is really good and then in my business of course every people think I'm the guru of the top guy in the community here and they're asking me questions all the time well this helps now I can tell them exactly what we're doing and what's going in and so it's good it was a good thing to do I agree with that it was was really informative I thought the presentation was easy I mean it was it was pleasant MH um there's a lot of information I was actually trying to take notes and I had to give up on a few times couldn't keep up because there's so much information being presented um it was good to see all these projects in person that you know maybe I hadn't been able to go see on my own just yet and um uh seeing what's what's up you know like the uh I think it was the public work site just to see that as huge and um you know hear the status of that and then it was a good get a chance to um even talk with some of the staff you know like the the chiefs were here you know Police Chief Fire Chief it was nice even just if all I could do is say hi to him it was just nice to have that time and the police chief was there too I believe he was both of them yeah I like the event because it gives us the opportunity to ask questions and have conversations and develop relationships with City officials as well that we don't get to see on a regular basis that's right yeah any other comments all right well we will move to new business and our only matter of new business is the oak Oakdale zoning code update project for commercial and Industrial standards and I'm going to again defer to Max all right thanks uh this one's close to my heart and it's a big project that we've been working on over in the community development project uh so zoning the zoning code isn't something we always bring to the EDC uh your mileage may vary with how much in your personal life or your business uh you've worked with city codes or permitting processes um so we're trying to look here for sort of that business perspective as we look at some of our zoning code um just for anyone who's not familiar the City Zoning code is a collection of ordinances that guides what land uses are allowed in Oakdale uh whether that's housing commercial industrial Etc where they can be built what site features need to be there and what amenities should be present um the areas we're looking at in particular and we're looking for some input from the EDC on include commercial and Industrial zoning districts uh General Building performance requirements signs and signage or just uh if you've gone through a building permit process or needed a conditional use permit process what did that look like was it hard is there any way we can improve our processes so some of the goals for this project include updating and streamlining the ordinance to improve the general development process improving user friendliness whether that's an illustration showing how a building setback should look and helping identify what these sometimes complicated ideas look like on a site um modernizing definitions and making sure that our uses are up to date with what we're seeing in the market these days and then ensuring that we're consistent with state laws federal laws any judicial rulings and our uh comp plan so we're pretty early in this process uh we're working on wrapping up the code diagnosis with our consultant H KGI uh who's based out of Minneapolis and what they're working on is kind of looking at our code telling us oh uh we think that this could be improved and these features are good these features need some work here's what could be improved uh but we want to make sure that we're covering all bases we're trying to go to our commissions who might know certain areas better than we do as staff and make sure that we're understanding that we'll start some public input soon uh we're going to connect with some of our Builders who have built in Oakdale recently people have gone through permitting processes start drafting some revisions uh run them by our Council and our commissions and then eventually uh we're looking at the end of the year to adopt these revisions um so I just have quite a few or a couple questions here for the EDC and they're really meant to generally guide what we should be looking for from a very broad perspective uh as we look at our zoning code um so I'll just go through these quickly and they're in the packet as well uh but just if any of these feel free to answer in any order if any of these come to speak to you in something you might have experienced in Oakdale or a different city recently so we've got what should City staff look for from a business perspective when just looking at code changes uh what uses do you want to see more or less of an Oakdale particularly in terms of commercial and Industrial uses uh how do you feel about existing commercial and industrial areas in Oakdale how's the access features is there enough parking too much too little uh what signs work well do we have too many electronic signs not enough uh how are our Billboards should we have more sandwich boards Etc how is our permitting process or a permitting process in another city just have you gone through that before what frustrations do you have what went well and what else should we consider uh this is a big project and it touches a lot of areas um so just if any of those questions resonate with something that you've experienced or thought about just we're hoping to open up the discussion on that and Max if we have ideas or thoughts after today's meeting we can certainly email them to you correct of course awes you know the first thing it comes to my mind is if there's a a consideration or an allowance for um exceptions to code so I'm thinking of a situation and kind of making this up just based on family members and that so somebody wants to have a small business in their home what would constitute a type of business that would require adherence to a code So like um a hais salon for example would be a um probably some health issues I suppose or would it because if they're just cutting somebody's hair at their kitchen table versus having a um regular business where they're you know generating income to file tax return those kind of considerations um uh if they come to the council or if they come to this body to say you know what do I need or what uh this code is in my way what can we do to accommodate that um is there a process for that that type of consideration so I think it's really just having a process but that's just an example of something that would use that process yeah um that's actually something we've heard from a few people including a few members of council is looking at the we call those home occupations so being able to run a business out of your home um that's actually often times if we get those permits um I'll process that and walk through the applicant on how to get to that point um so we're looking to improve that and the thing with home occupations is like we did permit a salon recently and uh we can condition certain things with that we want to make sure they for example have a cosmetology license so they're not just cutting hair over a sink and they have the proper equipment and meet those Health codes uh it's just always important with the home occupations to find at what point does it become too intense for right a home uh like you probably don't want to operate a a Milling operation or start manufacturing something from your garage perhaps the neighbors wouldn't like that too much so that's definitely something we want to narrow in on here and yeah I'm glad you brought that up and feel free to add additional comments on that if you have any right thanks could you comment on in the opening paragraph um chapter 2 land use or actually point three I guess it would be oh no it says policy three another priority of the comprehensive plan is to identify opportunities to amend the zoning ordinance to promote housing reinvestment I've been reading that um that that is happening on a national basis um I've just read a couple of different articles that and what's happening is that uh in an effort to increase affordable housing and H more housing units which nationally there's a big shortage that's why prices are so high um and uh really a lot of communities they like Lake Elmo for instance we won't you know uh they don't want to Zone things to have multif family housing units and they feel that that attracts residents that are less than desirable or whatever for their ta suburb um and so this is something that's playing out at the city level and communities like Oakdale and so is that true and I noticed that you called that out so you're talking about housing reinvestment to Define that is is that what you're getting at and sure um is that in the memo or the PowerPoint slide uh no it's right on the very front page of when it's introduced the top paragraph under the background sure yeah it says it's like the second sentence another priority of the comprehensive plan is to identify opportunities to amend the Z zoning ordinance to promote housing reinvestment yeah I think historically uh reinvestment in housing in Oakdale sometimes that's Redevelopment so uh if we're if there's a project that the city council feels would be a good opportunity to look at housing um we want to take a look through this process and make sure that our processes are up to date with what we're seeing in other cities and um while still having standards and making sure that we're getting projects that meet our code and meet the needs and desires of the community in Oakdale that our permitting process makes sense and our requirements are up toate with what we're seeing in similar cities um the housing reinvestment component of the comprehensive plan uh We've also seen in the past used to try to promote people to continue to invest in their existing housing stock whether that's redoing the siding of a home or even on the commercial end promoting people to reinvest in their existing commercial buildings and keep that looking up to dat um so it's your understanding that that's really not that issue the term housing reinvestment is different than how um development of new housing and rezoning sections that used to be zoned one acre lots M to down to half at you know I mean that kind of thing that doesn't fall under that yeah so we're looking more at technical updates here um there very well could be some policy decisions but we're generally not looking to do like explore um like a full Citywide rezoning or anything like that we're looking more at our processes and individual requirements okay so not so much uh new kinds of housing in this District but more what are the requirements there are they fair and are they up to dat okay thank you appreciate that I was just curious okay we're done yes we're done yes we are done we will move on to staff liaison updates and Max do you have any updates for us today sure we have a lot we talked about a lot yeah so I don't have too many uh staff leas on up updates today um I want to note that right now we're doing our Parks PL system plan study um so most likely in one of the next upcoming EDC meetings we'll likely bring that to you and ask for some input on our Park system and how we can make that better in Oakdale how that relates to businesses or just general reinvestment in Oakdale um so you can expect that in the future and please keep an eye uh this was mentioned by Chris as well but on the Facebook we'll have additional surveys for that Park project um so we want to make sure as many people get those as possible um but yeah that's one of our ma major projects right now um otherwise I'm happy to take any questions if there's any developments you see around town or just general updates Community Development wise one thing that I'll just I guess I could just say I don't if we're going to end with it but we did have a a conversation with the new landlord in that Bergen Plaza uh hemple um and they were very um energetic eager to kind of spruce it up a little bit um we were able to get some uh new signage uh for CCF Bank there still have a little problem with the electrical trying to get it wired in and everything so they're just there they don't light up or anything but um they were um seems like they're going to be really good uh landlord for the whole uh everyone around there and just try to modernize it maybe a little bit and work with new owners is that correct yep as of last week okay oh yeah okay so uh just I was very very impressed so it's it's exciting for that area um you know the signage right the sandwich boards are people driving slow trying to see what's on there so um it's uh it's exciting all right well we will move to commissioner updates and we'll start with Robert down on the end I don't have anything all right I want to Max already knows but uh this will be my last meeting I um served on Planning Commission for three years and I've been here two years um have some challenges in my business right now I own a business in St Paul Express Employment I expanded last year in July and it's been a little rough sledding so I need to turn my attention to that and so I thought Max had notified me that uh you know uh my C you know I could be reappointed for another two-year term I thought about it and I thought maybe it's time to step down un likee Frank I'm just kidding de buff but you know under different circumstances I probably would have done another term but just I think important for me to focus on my business and that kind of thing but it's been a pleasure to serve with you all and I've learned a lot and it's been a great experience so yes yep I have nothing to add but thank you Bob for your service great just a reminder Oakdale Summerfest is the last weekend of the month um they are full for volunteers but it starts on Thursday so please attend all right um hard to follow up with that so I won't thanks Bob for for joining us I jumped the gun a little bit with my update on the ber Plaza so that's all I have what do you got for us Frank I don't have anything we're having a uh chamber meeting tomorrow and the speaker I got is a a raw raw type speaker you know he's a what do you call him a personal trainer type guy that's not the right word he's he's motivational there we go he's a motivational speaker and uh I hear he's pretty good but I don't know that so and if you're free come on to the meeting it's going to be at the Forefront Forefront bring so anyway that's all I got all right and with that I will uh ask for a motion to adjourn a motion we adjourn second all in favor I I all right the motion motion carries and the meeting is adjourned thank you