[0:06] good evening call to order the regular meeting of the Planning Commission December 5th [0:12] 2024 you have the roll call Pearson here willenbring is absent Campbell is also [0:20] absent moli here di here Hagen here [0:25] Wilson here thank you with Pledge of Allegiance please [0:34] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic [0:40] for it stands one nation under indivisible liberty and justice for [0:49] all okay we have approval of the agenda is there any you need to add to the [0:56] agenda I take it as no uh so um somebody move to approve the [1:04] agenda make a motion approve tonight's agenda [1:09] second second second thank you all those in favor I any opposed approval agenda [1:16] of the agenda approval of minutes we have two before us October 3rd and November 7th October 3rd 1st any changes [1:23] from anyone no uh motion to [1:30] accept as presented make a motion to approve the October 3rd minutes a second [1:37] all those in favor I any opposed Iain I wasn't here I will [1:43] too uh November 7th minutes do anyone have any changes for those for [1:50] that if not may I have a motion to approve as presented [1:57] Alin I guess I'll make a motion to approve as agenda as presented uh you were here so if You' [2:05] second it please second sorry all those in favor I I any [2:12] opposed uh motion the motion to approve as presented is accepted next is the [2:17] open Forum this is an opportunity for anyone in the audience to present something that is not on the agenda [2:22] already so if anyone cares to voice voice an opinion or a point please come [2:28] forward open the open [2:33] Forum uh see no one moving to the front I'll close the Forum then and we'll go [2:39] on to uh old business of which there is none new business a public hearing for [2:44] zop 4066 Goodwin Avenue North conditional use permit for the home occupation of a dental Workshop Luke [2:52] thank you chair so on the screen we'll have it showed up here in just a moment [2:58] whoops let me [3:04] switch bear with me just a moment while I uh get things straightened out there [3:10] so on the screen there is the property in question so the address is 4066 [3:15] goodwi Avenue it's directly across from Goodwin Park and this general area is located north of 40th Street the zoning [3:23] of the site is R1 so that is our very low density residential district where home occupations are allowed through the [3:29] initial use permit process or cup process so the applicant is seeking formal approval to uh continue operating [3:37] a dental Workshop which specializes in making crowns and [3:42] Dentures so here's a closer look at the site in question the business operations are contained within the applicant's [3:49] garage and the applicant is the property owner in this instance uh the applicant describes the use as being similar in [3:55] intensity and in nature to like a wood shop or jewelry repair business so [4:00] equipment used for the business includes polishing machines suction units and molds for polymer impression devices uh [4:09] reportedly there are no uh customer visits on site and there are no there are no non-standard deliveries for the [4:14] use so no no specialty deliveries in other words so the applicant essentially picks up and drops off the Dental [4:21] products to dental offices so conditional use permits are subject to certain review criteria that's found in [4:28] the city's ordinance and here's just a quick summary of the review criteria that the city must use when evaluating [4:34] these requests so there's a one set and then I'll I'll follow up with a a more [4:39] specific set of criteria so compliance with the city's comprehensive plan compatibility of the use with the zoning [4:46] District No nuisance effects generated no traffic congestion or parking issues created the use must be adequately [4:52] served by public services no excessive costs incurred for public services and minimal impacts to the environment and [4:59] natural features and then specifically for home occupations and when we say that with or [5:07] in other words it's like a home business essentially uh the business must be conducted by a family member residing on [5:13] the property up to one non-family member may also be employed by the use the [5:18] operations must occur fully within the home or an accessory structure in this case it's the [5:23] garage the uh use cannot create noticeable externalities hours of operation shall [5:30] be specified in the conditional use permit and then finally if the use requires a license or outside approval [5:37] it will essentially be tied to the conditional use permit and I do want to address this uh specific criteria so per [5:45] the city attorney's office the applicant is solely responsible for ensuring that they have received any [5:52] applicable uh state or federal approvals or licenses to operate the use that's um [6:00] again the responsibility of the applicant it's not the responsibility of the city um so staff is recommending a [6:06] condition of approval that addresses this issue so with all that said staff finds that the conditional use permit [6:12] review criteria of the ordinance has been satisfied as detailed in the staff report on file and staff recommends [6:18] approval of the requests subject to the following four conditions and I'll read those off number one hours of operation [6:24] for the use shall be from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Sunday through Saturday no more [6:30] than one outside worker shall be employed for the use number three all signage for the use shall comply with [6:36] the city's regulations and number four if applicable and again I want to emphasize that if applicable the [6:41] applicant shall obtain and maintain any required approvals or licenses from state or federal government agencies to [6:48] operate the use so as a reminder this is a public hearing the applicant is here if you have questions otherwise I am [6:55] available if you have questions thank you thank you I do have one question for you item number one uh of your list [7:03] hours of operation from 9 to 5 why since it's a very low noise [7:09] low observable occupation why would we limit it to five o'clock that all was asked for that's [7:18] right just in my conversations with the applicant those were the general business hours now we if the commission [7:24] would like to adjust those or the applicant would like to adjust those it's certainly at the discretion of the commission to make updates I'm [7:31] just I'm just questioning why the the 5m limitation at that point but if the [7:36] applicant is okay with it that's perfectly fine anyone else have any questions I I do [7:44] um uh chair um Luke is there a um a limitation on how [7:54] many customers could be served at the same time and the home acation [8:01] mhm so the city's ordinance does not specify how many customer visits are [8:07] um are are limited and in this instance the the applicant is uh uh states that [8:13] there there are no customer visits uh the applicant goes to the dental offices picks up the products works on them in [8:20] the garage and then returns U those products back to the dental office uh as a followup [8:29] I think one one of the condition is that uh they should only one outside [8:35] employees working for them right correct how internet if the the the the property [8:41] owner or the the business owner has people that live with them [8:48] right are they excluded from that condition so if the way you phrased it [8:56] was there was one nonf family member yeah right that would by language say [9:01] family members would be allowed at that point exactly but this is such a specialized operation um you know with [9:09] uh uh the the the qualifications that you need to operate or this type of [9:15] business um I I guess I don't want to speak for the applicant but uh it's likely this this is just a onep person [9:22] operation okay thank you anyone else have questions no I'd [9:29] like to offer the applicant opportunity to come forward if he wishes otherwise we'll just [9:37] proceed okay any final comments from anybody on the commission no no I look for a mo for [9:45] the motion then um chair sir just reminder this is a public hearing so we want to open up for any comments as well [9:52] okay open a public hearing on this issue anyone wishing to make comment please come forward [10:03] I'm Robert Betts uh I live at 444 next door [10:10] uh we've been there since 1977 and we've had great luck with [10:16] Neighbors in the in the past like most people [10:24] uh at a certain point I decided my garage was not big enough and you always [10:29] want more room and uh so I applied for a permit from the city and at that time [10:38] uh the requirement was through my shock that I had to [10:43] basically since my h garage is attached the requirement is that you have to dig [10:49] another Foundation it's like putting a basement under your garage so I had to go down six feet and uh put her [10:57] foundation put put it in black and and uh the other requirement was that I [11:02] had to be 20t off the line well since then that requir has been CH been changed but uh [11:10] so I wish I knew then because I could have had a bigger garage but anyhow [11:16] uh reason why I bring that up is uh at [11:22] 4066 uh the garage was also made bigger and supposedly [11:29] the city gave a variance so that garage could be 4 foot from the property [11:37] line so uh right [11:42] now uh we're experiencing noise from this [11:48] operation and uh I I could tell when he gets a big order because he's working out there [11:55] late at night even you know 10 11 o'clock at night and [12:01] uh I don't know what's making the noise I I I imagine there's some kind of consolidation type unit or or something [12:09] like that to mix the chemicals and consolidate the mixture [12:17] so we're not too happy with it but we haven't said anything but now it's it's come to this and I'm [12:24] worried that this is going to become even a bigger operation and uh you know [12:31] we have to live next to it so uh there's also a vent on the garage [12:38] that vents out the chemical fumes that I don't know what they are [12:44] but I don't know if you've looked into any of this but uh that's kind of where [12:49] we're at so you'd be in favor of the 5m limitation then I take [12:55] it which is in is in there at this moment if if it's going to continue yes [13:02] but uh I I guess you know we're we're not too happy [13:08] with the noise so that's what I wanted to bring up [13:14] thank you there anyone else who wishes to come [13:19] forward for the public hearing part [13:30] hi my name is Mike Marone and I live right across the street from 4066 [13:37] our driveways are basically you know straight across from each other our houses are straight across from each [13:43] other we have an office upstairs uh that we look out over our driveway and I can see everything that goes on out there [13:50] all the time because we're always in the office okay we've lived there for 38 years um [13:59] I honestly if it wouldn't be that Z leaves at 9:00 typically every morning I think [14:06] and I'm assuming this but I think to take a package out and he comes home with the Starbucks Coffee almost every [14:12] day you know to me he's just going out and get a cup of coffee but I think he's taking some product out but it wouldn't [14:19] be for that I wouldn't have any idea that he's even got a business in there we never hear any noise I don't I don't [14:25] know about the venting if that's even true or not but there's absolutely no negative issue about them about him [14:32] having that business over there in I from my perspective anyway and like I [14:38] say we're there all the time we're retired so and we see and hear going on all the [14:47] time the other two other things I'd like to say or one other thing like to say then I have a question uh like I say [14:54] we've lived there for 38 years okay and I can't remember how long Z's been there [14:59] there but it's probably been four or five years now but by far in the 38 years that we've been there they've been [15:05] the very best neighbors we've ever had okay as far as you know taking care of [15:10] their kids taking care of their yards doing the kind of things that they need to do like normal citizens so they contribute to the community very well I [15:17] don't see any negative impact whatsoever on what he's doing out of his garage [15:23] okay that being said uh I have a question you know all these people nowadays that are working from home be [15:29] it computers or being at other things uh I assume that a lot of those don't need [15:35] conditional use permits is that only for products that are made in in a facility or in a garage or something or do you [15:41] have conditional use permits for anybody that works out a home on a computer I'd like to know where the limits are for this I'll have to pass that question to [15:48] Luke as the expert on the requirements good question so apologize I have to [15:54] address the commission um so uh [16:00] the the city's ordinance it really is intended [16:05] to review home occupations when there's externalities in in this case [16:11] specialized equipment uh but uh other things can trigger a home occupation [16:16] permit such as customer visits non-standard deliveries um uh noise or other [16:23] externalities are produced we're trying to better Define that we have a code update project that the commission is [16:29] aware of um we're trying to better get a handle of that but just um for most folks who do work at home you know think [16:36] of like a a graphic designer or someone who's just on the computer that that does not rise to the level of a home [16:42] occupation it's when it um operations may have an impact on on neighboring [16:48] property is when we were would require a permit and I can understand that and we [16:53] we would all want to see that naturally uh but like I say again in this case you know we're there all the time we see it [17:00] summer winter all that and there's AB like I said I wouldn't even knowbody had a business over [17:06] there there's just no sign of it other than going out for a cup of coffee every morning so okay thank you thank you very [17:12] much is there anyone else to come [17:21] forward uh I will ask you to limit it to have you said this said it before if [17:27] you're just restating it that I I just don't want to have to put up with the noise at any time of the day [17:33] you mentioned five o'clock [17:38] so I come up you're I'm assuming you're the applicant I am yeah [17:45] okay so I'm Z cha I reside at the address [17:51] 4066 um yeah I'm not sure uh how we even got to where we are now [17:57] um I thought when I moved into this neighborhood it was going to be my last [18:03] place that I will reside at and I really enjoy living there um with the neighbors [18:09] and everything everybody's been really nice and cool and uh sharing details [18:15] about the neighbors uh whatnot and you know like I said I don't know [18:21] how this got off on the wrong foot and as far as like the noise go like I said [18:27] if you were just stand outside the house you couldn't even hear I mean if you could if you put your ear up against my [18:34] garage okay maybe you might be able to hear something but other than that I I I [18:40] don't know actually where this noise is coming from the vent as far the as far [18:45] as the vent in the uh in the garage is just to vent out air to control the [18:50] climate inside I'm not sure where um he get all this film from um but I assure [18:59] you there's not nothing going on in there and like I said I've always been kind to the neighbors we've always made [19:05] food and meals and we've always handed out including to everyone around us you [19:11] know including our neighbor right next to us you know um like I said I've never [19:17] had any issue um sometimes you [19:23] know neighbors do kind of come out and lash at lash out at us and the kids and [19:28] I don't understand why I just tell everybody just ignore it you know don't [19:33] feed into it um and like I said we doing our best to [19:40] not um escalate this any F further like I said I don't know where [19:51] um where where how how we ended up in this [19:57] situation I mean it was just because of a disagreement we had um did I really [20:03] truly um violate any ordinance or laws or anything like that I as far as I know [20:09] I'm pretty obedient to ordinance and laws so it's really confusing to me why [20:16] um this matter has to be brought up so that's just where I stand now thank you [20:23] thank you very much can ask you a question sir yes how long youve been working in the the business in your [20:31] garage oh probably a couple years couple years is your garage finished just the [20:37] one just the one area yeah the the stall the one stall the stall not the whole garage no okay so is it separated [20:44] between the two then it is yes okay how did it come to you to have to [20:51] get a permit or to get the ordinance to do how did it come to your [20:57] attention that that you're coming through here to get a conditional use permit well I was notified through the [21:03] city okay yeah all right thank you thank you very [21:10] much bring back to the uh is is there anyone else who wishes to bring come forward I have a question though you [21:16] have a question for who yeah um for the applicant should I wait for the [21:22] applicant yeah I just got a quick one um I live two houses down from uh 46 [21:28] 6 and my kids I just moved there like 4 years ago and uh first time home [21:35] buyer he is a old friend of my brothers and uh just realized that and then my [21:42] kids go over and play with these kids a lot and when I have trouble with like I need a [21:50] lawnmower issue snowblower any questions that I have I go over to him because I [21:56] Look to Him like a big brother he knows more every time I go over I'll sit at the door for like 5 [22:04] minutes I'll call him see what he's doing and his kids will come to the door [22:10] and be like oh where's your dad oh he's working in the garage and I can't even hear nothing I'm talking about nothing [22:17] so you know that's the only just want to add that little comment there about the [22:23] noise and I I didn't even know he had a business until [22:28] maybe half six months down the road and I was like what do you do in your garage he goes well I work and I'm like well I [22:36] would even know that if you didn't even tell me cuz I didn't I don't hear nothing and when it he's done working [22:43] during the summer he has garages open he fixes cars and I wouldn't even know that [22:49] there's a shop there cuz it looks just like a garage so thank [22:55] you yeah you had a question uh yes either for either Luke or the [23:02] applicant So based on how um the purpose [23:07] statement is sort of phrased so he has been operating before [23:12] coming to se seek for this right is [23:18] it is it for lack of knowing that he need to do this or sort of [23:25] like let me start operating until I get C situation I I believe it it's um the [23:34] applicant did not know the regulations there are many um many Property Owners operating home businesses they simply [23:40] don't know that they need to get a permit this is something I've uh experienced both here at Oakdale and in [23:46] in a previous community that I worked with but I mean the goal for the city is always to bring help bring the the [23:52] property and the use into compliance with zoning regulations if I might comment uh [23:59] the applicant's letter addresses that question he was not aware of the requirement prior to it bring brought to [24:04] his attention of the city yeah and I get it um I do appreciate it because you know [24:11] the C is we want compliance not punishing people right I get it it's [24:16] customer service but again this is this is a health [24:22] issue sort of uh working people's uh sort of [24:28] Dental issues or I think it's bigger [24:34] than what I am reading right now here so has he contact the State at all [24:41] is he okay with the state so my understanding is and I'm by [24:47] no means an expert in this area because it gets very complicated if you're talking about what what is required to [24:54] have approval or licenses through uh government agencies such as the f da um [24:59] you know that's fully on the the uh applicant to ensure that he does that um [25:07] and again the city attorney's office was their direction is that that that's fully on the applicant to ensure that [25:13] they do it's it's no liability to the city similar to like uh someone who's operating a barber shop out of their [25:19] garage they it's it's on them to ensure that they get a license through the cosmetology um State cosmetology board [25:27] oh that's good to know because I that's where I'm going with this I just sort of kind of worry that we might be talking [25:34] about something either appr or approval something that may have larger implication with the state if it's on [25:41] them with the state I'm I'm good I'm good yeah it doesn't involve the [25:50] city anyone else have questions okay I close the uh public [25:58] hearing bring it back again if there's any questions otherwise I'll ask for a [26:06] motion I'll make a motion to approve the resolution for the conditional use permit I had [26:12] 4066 good one Avenue second all those in favor I I I [26:19] any opposed thank you very much motion is passed uh next is a public hearing on [26:26] the Larson family real estate lllp and the United properties 3 mation planned [26:31] unit development amendment to allow an additional pylon sign at $34.90 Hayward Avenue North Luke thank you chair so the [26:40] location of this site it's on the Forefront technology and office campus which is located in the Northeast [26:46] quadrant of Interstate 694 and 34 Street which is also referred to as County Road [26:52] 14 so the proposed pylon sign would be located on the property addressed 3490 [26:58] hey W Avenue so that is the superior third-party Logistics site so that's a warehousing and distribution [27:04] business the Zoning for this area is 3M imation planned unit development or PUD [27:11] which was established back in 1997 for the campus and just a little bit of information on the Pud uh PUD zoning is [27:18] an alternative to Conventional zoning and it allows greater flexibility for development as a way to promote [27:24] Innovation and efficiency so the purpose of the request here is that the applicant is seeking flexibility from [27:31] these City's zoning regulations to establish a 50ft tall pylon sign containing two sign faces each sign face [27:38] would be 350 square ft so the requested signage exceeds the city's uh standards [27:44] for pylon signage so by code you're only allowed a pylon sign to be 30 feet tall [27:50] and each pH can only have up to 150 square ft also pylon signs are only [27:56] allowed on commercially commercially zon property and the site is not uh Zone commercial however the Pud zoning [28:03] enables a great deal of flexibility provided that there's some type of public benefit that is derived from the [28:08] flexibility provided so here is a look at the [28:16] signage across the Forefront campus uh so for reference the campus is [28:21] approximately 120 Acres there are 13 existing signs throughout the Forefront [28:27] area including one pylon off uh in 34th Street here near the um soon to be open [28:34] Aldi um and again this request is to allow for an additional pylon sign on [28:39] the west side of the campus uh so that it has a it utilizes visibility from Interstate 694 the applicant states that [28:47] additional signage will help brand the Forefront campus and here's a look at the proposed [28:53] sign again it's 50 ft tall in height and would contain two sign faces each sign [28:59] face is 350 square ft now with all that said uh staff finds that the additional [29:05] pylon sign is acceptable given that it will be placed away from existing signage on the Forefront campus in a [29:10] manner that prevents signage clutter the design elements appear consistent with the existing signage throughout the this [29:17] area and additionally the materials appear to be of high quality uh just a [29:22] reminder here that if the Pud amendment is approved the applicant still has to seek a building permit for before they [29:29] install the sign so the Minnesota DOT Department of Transportation they also reviewed and commented on this request [29:36] they only noted that any illumination for the sign should be kept to a reasonable level so it doesn't distract [29:42] drivers on the interstate uh with that all said staff recommends approval of this PUD [29:48] Amendment and just a reminder this is a public hearing as well and the applicant is here in attendance if you have [29:54] questions and I'd be happy to answer any questions thank you okay anyone have any questions of Luke before open public [30:00] hearing no I do uh Luke uh chair uh Luke is there a a [30:11] possibility for the sign at some point in the future to turn into a digital sign sort of changing [30:18] messages within seconds if the applicant would want to convert the signage from static to [30:25] dynamic or electronic they would have to come back to the Planning Commission and city council for a conditional use [30:31] permit that's how we process the the dynamic signage thank [30:37] you and that would also have to get passed by do because it's so it's on [30:42] their property or right away I believe too any other [30:48] questions um would the applicant care to make any comment first okay I open the [30:54] public hearing if there's anyone in presence which there isn't uh would like to come forward please do [31:01] otherwise I will close the public hearing seeing none I close the public hearing bring it back if there's any [31:07] further questions or discussion from the commission no I don't have any okay then [31:14] I ask for a motion [31:20] motion so moved so moov Sor so moved any second please second second all those in [31:27] favor say I I I any opposed see none the motion is passed I [31:33] thank you very much uh done with a new business onto staffle aison update just [31:38] a couple updates quick updates here so I do not expect that we will have a January Planning Commission meeting we [31:45] didn't receive any land use applications by our submittal deadline so I think we'll have a a month off there and uh [31:52] the other thing is just wishing you a good holiday season thank Youk thank you [31:57] any updates from Commissioners no okay Council Y is on [32:04] Jake Inger brickson yeah this will be my last meeting uh here as your liaison uh my [32:10] term expires January 6th uh I do want to just kind of I'll have a lot more to say [32:17] at my last meeting which is next Tuesday but uh I do want to thank our past city planner Emily shivley our current uh [32:25] city planner Luke and uh also Andy gits laugh it's been an absolute pleasure to work with you guys we're lucky to have [32:32] you um and I also want to thank all Commissioners past and present um for [32:40] serving Oakdale uh you've been a big help to the council [32:45] um and uh I don't think this is the end of my political career but we'll save that for [32:51] another day so um to be continued to be continued so thank you guys very much um [32:59] it has been a pleasure and uh I have no idea who your leaon is going to be so don't [33:06] ask thank you thank Youk uh that finishes the agenda so I [33:12] look for a motion to adjourn motion to ad Jour second all those in favor hi I [33:19] any opposed thank you very much meeting is closed see you guys [33:26] thanks me