Fine. >> Opening the planning commission regular meeting August 7th, 2025. Call to order and uh call for roll. >> Pearson >> here. >> Willen bringing >> here. Campbell >> present. >> Moly >> here. Data >> here. Wilson here. Shaba >> here. Pledge of allegiance please. To the flag of the United States of America to the stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Uh looking for the approval of the agenda. >> Make a motion to approve. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Approval of minutes. Anyone have any changes or comments on the minutes? If not, I look for a motion to approve. >> So move. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> All those opposed? >> So passed. Uh first item is the open forum. This open forum is not for any item that is on the agenda. There is an open forum for each of those items. So, uh, if there's anybody who wishes to speak to a topic that is not on the agenda, please step forward, just take your name and address and, uh, have your three minutes. Anyone wish to come forward for something that's not on the agenda. Seeing none, I move on. Open the agenda forum and close the forum. Uh, planning commission review. Old business, none. New business. Public hearing for the Oak Dale Glenn 7491 Stillwater Boulevard North reszoning and preliminary plat. >> Thank you, chair. So, the location of this site and we'll have it on the screen in just a moment. So, it's 7491 Still Water Boulevard North and the property consists of approximately 13 acres. There is an existing homestead there on the site that's closer to Stillwater Boulevard. That homestead with approximately 4 acres would remain as part of the development proposal. The southern nine acres would be developed for single family lots. So the purpose of this request the developer central homes they are seeking approval to develop 32 single family homes and the developer states that the units will be market rate or in other words they are not incomerestricted. So u moving into the request details here. So there are two applications before you tonight. So there's a reasonzoning request from the R2 zoning district to the R3 zoning district. The R3 zoning district allows 50 foot wide lots for single family homes whereas the minimum lot width for the R2 district is 80 ft. So the uh second request is the preliminary plat which proposes to subdivide the property and create those 32 lots for single family homes. So uh we we'll take it one at a time. So the first the resoning request uh resonings are subject to two specific review criteria in the city's ordinance and the first review criteria is consistency with the city's comprehensive plan. So that's the official policy document that the city has adopted that governs land use decisions. Uh it's a high level policy document and the second criteria is the capacity of the existing infrastructure and public services to serve the property. So the comprehensive plan uh specifically identifies this site 7491 Stillwater Boulevard for future residential development. The comp plan guidance for the site only allows single family homes. I just want to make that very clear. Um and then there's another specific policy within the comp plan to guide and zone land to promote the construction of a full range of housing choices to include single family detached homes. Um, also the property is served by existing infrastructure including street connections off 26th Street and Upper 26th Street. You'll see that better on the next couple slides and there are also water and sewer line stubs to this property. Uh, the site is also accessible for emergency services and it's near public assets including public uh public parks, trails and schools. So, moving on to the subdivision plant. So uh just with the shape of this property um we had to rotate the plaza so the north arrow is pointing to the left side of the screen there. So the access to the site as mentioned there's uh two proposed accesses there and and again upper 26 street and 26 street they're both uh they dead end at this property and um 26th street would accommodate nine homes. uh th that would be the primary access for the the nine homes on the southern portion of the lot. And then upper 26th Street would serve 23 of those homes as part of the subdivision. On the north side of this extension of Upper 26th Street, a culde-sac would have to be built just for proper turnaround movements, emergency services. I would like to note that there are no plans to widen Upper 26th Street or uh uh 26th Street as well. Um and this development would not prompt a widening of the road. So outlaw A as you can see on the left side of the screen or the northern portion of the site as mentioned that would contain the existing homestead with approximately 4 acres there. And then outlaw B which kind of bisects the proposed uh development the the the lots there that would contain storm water management infrastructure and specifically what I'm talking about is a retention pond. and the the the retention pond would manage all the runoff from the site and it runoff cannot impact neighboring properties. I would like to mention that the developer has to go through the formal approval process for storm water provisions through the valley branch wershed district and also work with the city engineer on those storm water provisions. Washington County um public works they reviewed this request because it does abut Stillwater Boulevard and that is a county road. Uh the county stated that there would be no new accesses allowed off Stillwater Boulevard. So any future connections of this you know um as mentioned the culus act would have to be likely via 28th Street here which is just on the uh where my cursor is on the screen. So also as part of the platting process park dedication payment is a requirement of the subdivision process. So here's a look at the developer utility plan. very technical, very difficult to see, so I apologize about that. Um, the proposal does not show any pedestrian ways, uh, in particular along this upper 26th Street extension as required by the city subdivision regulations. Pedestrian ways must be built out to complete pedestrian systems. So, as such, um, staff is recommending a condition of approval for a sidewalk to be built along this portion of the road. The developer is also seeking to conduct grading work if uh if the preliminary plat is approved and in order to to do so the developer would have to enter into a formal agreement with the city to conduct any grading work. Uh just one additional item I want to note that the uh city's ordinance requires at least two trees to be planted for each single family lot. So there would be trees uh trees planted throughout this development if again if approved. Moving on to the next slide. So, just some sample elevations that have been provided by Central Homes just to give you an idea of what the homes might look like. And to conclude, uh staff finds that the developers request for a reasonzoning and preliminary plat are consistent with the criteria of the comprehensive plan and the city's ordinances as detailed in the staff report on file. So, the official recommendation from staff is approval of the request subject to the following conditions that are found in the plat resolution. So this is page 27 in the agenda packet. So there are nine conditions of approval. Bear with me. I'm going to summarize them the best I can. So number one is approval of a reszoning to the R3 zoning district. Number two is execution of a development agreement. Number three, approval of site civil construction plans by the city engineer. Number four, execution of a grading permit agreement with the city for any grading work to conduct prior to final plat approval. Number five, satisfaction of park dedication requirements. Number six, an update to the plat to include the culde-sac on the north portion of the property. And the developer did provide an update to that plat. It just received it a little bit too late to include in the packet here. Uh number seven, uh this is a technical detail that the fire hydrant proposed in the northern culde-sac would have to be relocated so it's offset. It's not obstructing vehicle turnaround movements. Number eight, installation of a sidewalk along the extension of Upper 26th Street as I showed on the the previous slide. And then number nine, permits and approvals from all applicable outside government agencies must be obtained. So, I do want to acknowledge that there have been some written comments received in opposition to this request and those comments have been forwarded to the planning commission for review prior to this meeting. Um, those comments along with some photos. I I I do have uh printouts of photos u circulating to the the planning commission and those photos were also uh sent to the planning commission before the meeting just taken to consideration as part of your uh decision- making. Um, as a reminder, this is this is a public hearing and the developer is here in attendance and I'd be happy to answer questions. Thank you. >> Thank you. Does anyone have any questions for Luke? >> Not at this time. >> I think I'd like to just elucidate a little elucid elucidate a little bit of the distinctions between R2 and R3 because I'm sure that's going to come up. Uh if do you want to read from the zoning the description of R2 versus R3? >> Sure. >> There's not as far as I can see the main differences of the lot size and facing width. >> Yes. Uh chair bear with me just a second. I'll bring up the the descriptions here. So the R2 district um so I'm reading from this uh city's zoning regulations here. It is intended to provide variety of lowdensity residential dwellings including single unit dwellings. Um it goes on to u mention some other complimentary uses um schools places of worship but that's not that's not the request at hand here. >> I think it also mentions twin homes as well. >> Yes. So the R2 zoning again this property is currently zoned R2. So, uh, dwelling, excuse me, uh, duplexes are allowed under the R2 zoning district. And then if I can jump to the R3 zoning district. I'll have it in just a moment. There we go. Okay. So that is R3 is the medium density residential district and it is also intended to provide mix of uh residential uses including smaller lot single unit or single family dwellings, two unit town homes, courtyard cottages and small apartments. >> Good. >> No one else has said can >> I have a followup question. >> So the R2 and R3 both allow the same uses, right? But the dimension standards are different. is are we reading here? >> So, yeah, Commissioner, the dimensional standards, R3 allows for more dense type uses, but R the R3 zoning district also allows uh the the town homes um I'm sorry, the the R2 zoning district also allows town homes, but R3 in addition to allowing single family uh duplexes, town homes, it also allows what's considered courtyard cottages, >> right? >> And uh small apartment units. less than eight dwelling units in one structure. Now, one point of clarification is what what um what's not captured in the zoning districts here in these explanations is the comprehensive plan guidance. And that the guidance for this site, which which essentially trumps the zoning is the uh the comp plan guidance for this site is low density, which only allows single single family dwellings. And the the platting is we'll get into that afterwards, I'm assuming, but that's all for right now for single family homes. >> Yes. Uh chair, just to clarify the plat the request that we have at hand is only for single family 32 single family homes. >> Thank you. Uh at this point, would the developer wish to make any comments? >> Seeing none, I guess we'll go to >> Oh, okay. You just weren't quick enough. >> Sorry, I needed to gather my stuff. Uh my name is David Patberg. Um I'm with Central Homes. Uh we're the developer and the builder proposing here tonight. Excited to be in front of the the planning commission and have an opportunity to present this uh this new subdivision within the city. As we look at the subdivision and look at the comprehensive plan of Oakdale, our intention is to bring a housing diversified housing product to the city that is currently not found in new home construction in the city. So, these are smaller lots. We as we worked with staff over the past many months and saw this new zoning code came about, we saw it was a way for us to meet a zoning code and not have to go through a PUD or go through any variances. And so this is a straight zoning request um that would fit R3 specifically. Um the site has some unique characteristics to it. The soils are not the best um on site and so it's it's causing us to think about it to build slab ongrade homes. Um and so as we looked at the market demand in the area, we went with a slab-on grade twotory home. That's what was presented on the culdesac because of the ponding and stuff. There's the four houses that would be full basement and so that's a little bit of a difference but the the full intent was to have these houses be um more focused on this slab on grade that we find that that type of house ends up being focused on um kind of that first time buyer. Um, often it's a young family. Sometimes it's a a a young couple or even um we find that other demographics that don't necessarily fit that come in perfectly. You found many times young professionals or divorcees or um even sometimes empty nesters that kind of think of this as their Minnesota home and have a second home somewhere else. So, we we found a variety of it, but it allows us to think about a house at a price point um that sometimes is a little bit hard to meet for new construction, especially in a city like Oakdale where people really want to live. We think these houses will start in the low fours, but we'll really get right close to 500,000 with some of those uh deeper basements from that perspective. Um and so that's where we're that's what we're looking at. That's what we're thinking about um from a home offering and buyer profile and uh land. Any any other questions I can answer specifically? >> Any questions for the developer from you? I think that covers it for us. >> Great. One one thing maybe to add is um we tried to have a neighborhood meeting and I think I just picked the wrong date. um we had it on national night out and didn't quite put it together till the letters were gone out. So even though we intended to it it didn't really come together um from our perspective and and so we think a lot of the feedback tonight um is going to be helpful as we work. So appreciate your time. >> Next on the on this is a open forum. Generally a time limit of no more than 20 minutes is reserved for public comment and each speaker receiving three minutes time limit. So be be courteous to each other because there's evidently a lot of people who wish to make comment. So please limit it to close to three minutes. Uh don't be replic replicative if somebody says something. It doesn't necessarily need to be said three times. With that I open the public forum. Those wishing to make comment on this, please come forward. State your name and address. >> My name is Rebecca Sunsmo and this is my husband Tim. We live at 2732 Henselow Avenue North. And I think you were offered pictures, given pictures. >> They were passed along. >> Yeah. I want I want you to look at those pictures and imagine that that's your house and that's your deck and you're looking out at that land. This is our view every day. Now, imagine looking at not two but three homes. So close that you can see directly into the bedroom or living room because of this illadvised plat of 50 feet lots. This is our future. No privacy for them or us. These will be nothing but detached town homes. We ask you to please delay any approvals. send this plat back to the developer to redesign a more respectful plan of 80 ft. Which is consistent with the surrounding neighborhoods. This would result in only four less homes per side. We do not agree with the developer assessment that these tiny lot homes are what people want. This is just a money grab on their part. With the 80 foot lots, these homes could have a nicesized backyard that would provide some privacy for us and them. They would be more familyfriendly and they could have all three car garages and sell at a higher price point. This is a new development, but it is being dropped into an existing neighborhood with no less than 80 ft lots. We request that you and the city council do a site visit if you haven't done one. And if you haven't, shame on you. We are more than these squares on this piece of paper. We are devastated longtime residents, taxpayers, and voters. We need you to do the right thing for the o the Oakdale residents that you serve. We are losing our privacy and our property values. We are due some consideration. Thank you. >> Thank you. the if you looked on this map that you had up there. >> Could you speak into the microphone, sir, please? >> I'm sorry. Um, if you looked on the plat on the east side, number seven is directly behind our home, which if you look, there's three properties that will butt up to the back end of one property. And to me, that's not right. and it's, you know, been here over 30 years along with a lot of others that have been here 40 years and very disgusted with the fact that um we're not happy having houses back there. There's nothing we can do or say about that, but we ask you to rethink the 80 foot lots at least. that would bring it into uh the area criteria. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to come forward? >> Hi, Lynn and Dan Hulk, 2714 Hensel Avenue North. Um, we would like to have a neighborhood that is consistent with our current neighborhood in terms of lot size and green space. So, we feel that one house should be behind one house. So, we are in favor of keeping the R2 rating um in this area. We feel that the new home should be respectful of the distance between one home and another. And I guess that's a a repeat. the the term zipper home was also mentioned and when we we researched that it talked about fabricated homes and um we are concerned about our property values being affected by having zipper homes in our backyard and we would like uh consistent with our area R2 to R2. Um we're worried about the construction and the pipeline and the safety of that. I don't know what provisions are have been made to make sure that um there's no danger to the surrounding area with this pipeline that goes through the property. Um did you want to mention any questions or >> I have a few. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Uh okay. So >> Mike >> Yeah. So let's see here. Um I had a little confusion on the diagram with the easement. So maybe somebody some point can I think there's like 140 foot lots on one side and 170 foot lots on the other side and then there's this the city has an easement in there and I'm assuming that that is part of the the tenants property. I don't know. So I was kind of confused >> mostly the ponding I'm sure. >> Okay. So I'm kind of confused about the drawing but I think somebody alluded to that you know that I'm just trying to get familiar with it. Um, somebody talked about the infrastructure and it I just, you know, hope that the, you know, the water drainage. I try to look at that diagram to figure out that, you know, all the, you know, the city sewer and all that that, you know, the water is all going to be, you know, handled properly. Again, it's kind of hard to figure from that diagram. Um, just a question about construction are like in when they build this, are all the homes going in at once? Is it just going to be like that, you know, kind of thing? Maybe that's a question for the builder, but it's like, are they going to do one and it's going to take over time? And the reason I'm asking that is because the construction can take like a a length of time, right? It could take years for that place. It could happen overnight or could take a while. So, that was a question I had. And then my final thing is um and I think you kind of addressed it earlier is like what's next? And it sounds like my kind of limited understanding how the city works. It's going to be some kind of approval and then it goes to the council and then and so forth. Okay. And so then the only other comment I would like somebody to address is why weren't we informed? I mean, I don't feel like we really got noticed until I I I talked to some of my neighbors and I don't I don't think I missed anything and it sounds like this went back to like December. Is it my duty as a citizen to go in and read all the notes? Somebody somebody could comment on that. Like how am I supposed to know or how are we supposed to know? We just got the notice like a week ago and that seemed I don't like that. That's all I can say. >> I did call and ask what are the stakes in the back of our yard for in January in the middle of the winter? What are they for? And and when I called there was we don't know. So anyway, >> yeah, that Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you very much for your input. >> Good evening. My name is Dave Crockstead. I live at 745025th Street, Circle North, which is a culde-sac on the back end of that. And my concern is Helena is going to be the only access for Upper 26th Street for to get into this complex. And the sidewalks are going to go from the new building. So, Upper 26 has no sidewalks and Helena is going to be the landing stripper, the raceway for everybody to come in there. And there's no sidewalks. and there's a lot of families with kids that walk up and down that. So, my concern is for the safety and how all the construction vehicles are going to get into this place. So, if that can be answered sometime, that would be really nice. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Anyone else wish to come forward? Mark Thomas, 2786 Hensow Avenue. Um so if you look on the plat that is on the east side um where property the new property number 12 is at in that very northeast corner 12 and 11 actually. So, as I understand the concern of the mayor with the zipper approach in a letter that was sent um by the developer July 1st, it states, "The 50-foot lots have been strategically placed, resulting in a zipper configuration to address the concerns voiced by the mayor regarding two lots backing up to any one lot. particularly on the east side. So that's a third paragraph of that letter. So I understand the zipper approach it would be to put the house halfway between so that the back of the house is on the existing property line so that it would be offset from the house and that can only be accomplished with an R2. The way it's drawn out here, as stated before, some of the properties have two. Ours has almost two houses, number 11 and 12 on that northeast side. And as stated, some have three. That makes no sense. It's not in keeping with the character of the existing neighborhood. So I would protest that vigorously. The second point I direct you to is in the letter. That same third paragraph. It states third sentence, given the natural existing tree cover on the surrounding properties, we believe that the offsetting of the lot lines, which they're not. Coupled with the existing tree canopy on adjacent properties allows for more screening and privacy than was originally anticipated. That's not accurate. There are many properties with views out to the existing fields. Our house looks out towards the garden which is going to be gone with a house right in the backyard. I have two photos that I can if I can approach those around. That's the view from our backyard and the pine tree is in the middle looking back and clearly there's no screening and many of the properties are that way. Even if they have a fence as stated, they have a deck up high. You look over the fence, you're going to look right into someone's window. So, I think R2 is the appropriate designation. It's what was there when we bought these properties. They're asking for reszoning, which is stated reduces our enjoyment of our property and diminishes our value in the property. So, I think you ought to take that seriously to heart and think about what that means. I know we're trying to get denser properties. Met council is for it, pushes for it, all the reasons, but this is not the place for it. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak to this issue? Matt Williamson 7459 Stillwater Boulevard. Sorry about the emotional umness, but I want to do a little public service announcement um that I saw on Facebook about um the current study being executed maybe by you guys on um what Oakdale is needing for residential homes. And um I would hope that maybe you would uh consider what that study does and really involve the community that's um behind us to create something great for this community um that goes beyond um the norm that goes beyond the zip code that can really come in and uh tell a story for Oakdale that has been through a lot through water uh stories, a lot of some negative stories and uh maybe this through feasibility study and um community support that obviously the developer had his reasons why that didn't happen, but maybe um together there could be something um unimaginable and I hope you consider that. Thank you. >> Thank you. My name is Dave Head. I live at 2750 Henselow Avenue. I guess my main gripe is we just found out about this development two weeks ago. So, I just put a brand new deck on my house, figuring I'm going to look at this field. And now I'm going to build this deck so I can look at homes. I'm not in favor of that. Also, part of what the gentleman before me just mentioned, what about the water? Are they going to need to build more water towers? Anything like that? That's all I have. >> Thank you. Anyone else wish to come forward? >> Diana 2624 Henselow. There's a lot of us Hensow out here. I see. Um, I just want to know what kind of a marketing study was done that showed that we need these types of twostory maybe onecar garage or manufactured homes in our in our neighborhood. Where's the study that this was needed? >> Thank you. Anyone else wish to come forward? Hi, my name is Lloyd Wright and I live on Upper 26th Street North, right next to the farm property. We've lived there for 48 years. Um, our street right now consists of six homes. They're on property of the 95 to 100 foot wide lots. Um, our concern is the possibility of adding 22 more homes to that street. Um, the size of the lots that I see are 50 foot wide and the homes must take most of that width. So, how much yard space will families have? And there is no that I see any provision for a park or place for children. Uh that same type of home is being built at Mulo Brook and they have provided a playground. And if the developer wants to consider and go ahead with this plan, I think something should be considered uh to keep children off that street. Uh adding 22 homes to that street at the width it is, and I don't want the width to change, but I think it would be dangerous. I don't know if any of you have come out to that property and looked at that situation, but if you haven't, you should. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hi, I'm Kim Plus. I live at um 7454 Upper 26th Street North on the same call with Zach. We've been neighbors for >> I think you're going to have to draw the microphone a little closer. We've been neighbors for about 30 35 years on upper 26th Street North. Um it's been a just a great culde-sac having the six houses that we have there. We're just concerned about the traffic flow that's going to be happening with our with our street. We love having the cows on the end of our culde-sac. would love it if we could stay something natury like I said a park or something that we could all be a part of with our culde-sacs and our streets that we all could still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so still so enjoy the land that we have because it's it's a beautiful area when when we have people come to our house they love looking at the cows at the end of the street and they get excited when the Amazon drivers come and they see those are cows like yeah it's just it's it's a beautiful area land and I just wish Oakdale could find a better way to preserve it and keep it a a fun or nice place for the community. >> Thank you. >> I'm her dad and uh I live in Lake Elmo, but uh she brought that brought this to my attention what they're doing there and all the traffic they're going to have. Uh I go over to house a lot and the her grandkids come and play in the street. That street is going to be servicing the majority of those homes. I don't know why they didn't run a street all the way from Hurst all the way to the other exit and why the county didn't allow to uh have the main input to that street right off of Still Water Road. Uh that makes no sense at all. All bringing all that traffic, all that heavy construction stuff. Those kids aren't going to be able to play out there. There's no sidewalks and stuff and they run their little cars and stuff out on the street and it's it's been great for all these years. It's not a culde-sac. It's just on the dead end road and finally it got developed. But I I think it's a big mistake uh just just with all the traffic that they're going to have during construction and after construction that that street is not going to be safe anymore. uh uh the neighbors used to park their uh motor home on that street. You that street is so narrow that you're not going to be able to do any of the stuff that you've did in the past. It's just like uh put up your for sale sign and that's what one of the neighbors did right right there and sold this house. I don't know if you informed the the new people uh that were moving in that what was happening, but uh it's going to depreciate the value of all those homes in that vicinity because you're putting in a a a different type of uh property that's going to be even though it's very expensive. I mean, the contractor is going to make a lot of money on it, but uh the quality of the home and and the future value of that thing is is not up to par for what's in the neighborhood. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> At this juncture, I'd like to re reiterate, don't please don't replicate what's already been said. If you've got new things, please feel free to come forward and and talk. >> Warren Blossom, 2642, Hensel Avenue North. I guess just piggybacking on what my neighbors across the uh the field were saying just about safety. Just wanted to see if the um just to bring it up to the council that um as traffic will increase, Henslow is already a drag strip. I mean, we live right next to a blind corner. I've picked up a fawn off the road that was killed by somebody coming around too fast. So just um as far as from a public safety standpoint is concerned like as traffic does increase um just think about what we could do to mitigate any kind of you know some sort of like harm reduction measures for like that drag strip that thorough air. Thank you. Anyone else wish to put forward? >> Good evening. Cindy Menus at 744725th Street North. I'm two houses off from Helena. Um I worked for the city of St. Paul fire department for 37 years. So, I'm looking at this council and I'm wondering what kind of communication can the people of Oakdale get about this whole thing. I only got the one letter. I heard rumors from this neighbor, that neighbor, this neighbor. I don't I didn't go on the site. That's my fault. I haven't gone on the city of Oakdale site. There's I'm sure there's things there, but I would look for more communication as to what is actually going on as a resident of Oakdale. And I guess my question is is what now? What happens with all these concerns? What do you as a council do next? Do you take them in and then what happens? >> First, we're we're a commission, not the >> Oh, commission. Okay. >> We're we're a factf finding or and >> then Okay. I'm sorry. >> Holding holding this public forum. >> So, what will what's the next step? What does the commission do? Do you listen to all these comments and they're on air and it's recorded and then what happens? You discuss it and then what's the next step? >> Luke, you want to manage that or you take it? I have to direct the my comments to the commission in this format. >> I I I'll take it if you don't mind. >> So, we're going to discuss. We're going to take all your feedback. >> Maybe we'll give the developer an opportunity to come address a couple of the things that you that >> that would has said. >> We discuss, we vote. We're a recommending body only. >> Okay. >> So, our vote to approve or deny goes to the city council August 17th, >> 26 >> 26 >> 26. Well, that's when it's tenatively to be heard at uh the city council meeting. >> So, just so I'm clear then you guys I'm sorry you people you discuss this you take into all the the comments from the people who live in Oakdale and you make a recommendation to the council >> and then the council >> makes the final vote >> makes the final vote as to what happened. Just as a note, if you've been noticing, Luke's been taking notes through this and the developer is also taking notes and as he said since they missed missed out on having enough people at the the meeting he had called, right? >> He's using this as a forum to try and get that information for him. >> I I would ask that if it's possible, I mean, again, I worked with city Paul St. Paul council, the mayor, the fire, the police, everybody. I would ask that there'd be more communication from the commission to the council, the council to the people because I just don't think there was enough other than my notice of this in the mail, which was great, but I would have hoped that something beforehand would have come and I really hope that something comes after this these meetings here before the council vote. >> It's not going to happen. >> You won't. This is a public forum. >> Okay? So, this is the vote that or this is the notice that you'll get is for this meeting. >> Um, the reason you don't get anything beforehand is until this gets agendaized may or may not be a project. They've been working on this for >> eight, nine, 10 months. >> Um, so if they had noticed you beforehand, you may get notices for a lot of projects that don't ever come to fruition. >> Okay? >> I'm you my day job is real estate development and we work a lot of projects for a long time that die. And so once you once you finally get to a point where it's an agendaized item, yes, this is moving forward like then we send out the formal notification as per city or city uh ordinance is. >> Okay. So the the council then will be sending something out as to what their decision. Nobody will send anything out anymore. >> I think so at at this point I'm not sure that there will be anything further noticed in terms of an email or a letter to you. Just be aware as of stated the the next meeting is on the plan is for the actual council. >> Why wouldn't they why wouldn't they at least then announce to the city to the people of >> the agenda on the on the website. >> So that's it. It would just be an agenda >> for the next council meeting. Yes. >> Or the minutes afterwards. So after they have the meeting, minutes will be posted to the city website. >> So that's how we'll find out what the final is as the citizens of Oakdale. Okay. Thank you. >> Call the planning office and I'm sure they would tell you who you called. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to come forward? >> Since our one and only time, uh, Jenna Williamson, 7459 Stillwater Boulevard. Sorry, I'm also emotional. Um, I did a little research this morning um just to see the developers uh capabilities and um I wanted to make sure that you see they're recommending more or less detached town homes and they actually state that as such on their website and I don't know if you if I can pass this around but this is the plans that they are recommending and this is actually the neighborhood in um Fox Street I think the name is. But I also noticed that on Centra's um home building options for that particular neighborhood, they have other options and they are two-story homes with larger lots and have the ability to maybe match our neighborhood a little better and have the opportunity for uh the requests that people have been mentioning um to build a home that maybe is more in line with creating um just an extension of the neighborhood. Good. So, this is in the same development, but it's further in. So, I just think it's important to see uh that the developer has a lot of capabilities. And I think it is uh really wise of us to challenge them and not just take another stamp of a lot of rooftops and instead look at what kind of rooftops and what kind of neighborhood this could be for Oakdale and um does it really align with what we're looking to build uh within this particular neighborhood of Oakdale. Thanks. >> Thank you. Does anyone else have anything new to uh make comment on? Seeing none, I'll offer the opportunity one more time. Does anyone else have anything new to to offer to the discussion? Please come forward if you do. Okay. Close the public forum. Uh bring it back. Does anyone here on the committee commission have any other comments? Can we have the developer come back up? >> We can ask for him. >> That would have been next after comments from the commission. >> Sorry. Then then go ahead >> then I'll wait. >> No, go ahead. You're you're on. >> Yes. Did you have questions? >> No. There's a couple questions came from the audience. Um, is every house could be built at one time? Realistically not, but what is the time frame for as a house is being built as they're sold? >> So, as we we would develop the whole site all at once. That's grading, streets, utilities. But home building, we always need to kind of the best way to think of is to ramp up, you know, so we'd probably have four, five or six houses coming out of the ground at first and then as they sell, we'll build out. We expect to sell about two a month. And so we're planning, you know, with 30 32 lots, you know, it's a little over a year, about a year and a half of home building construction. But I want to be clear, our intention, if we get approved at council is to start grading this fall. The soils need some time to to dry out is the best way to describe it. And so grading would happen this fall. Next spring, streets and utilities would go in and then home building would start after that. Um, so it'll feel longer than that 16 to 18 months of build time. >> Will you be building as the lot gets sold or start at one end and work your way down? >> We would start at one end and go down. >> Okay. What's the distance between an existing home, not the lot line, but the existing home and the new home approximately? >> Um, any ideas? the closest >> or the closest. Yeah. >> Because a lot of them are backyards and so there's a pretty big distance, you know, over 100 feet, but the corner houses maybe 25 ft. I I'd have to pull up the plan, but we're asking for five and five sideyard setbacks. And so, look at the lot that's adjacent to an existing home. How close is that house to its own lot line? Maybe 10 feet, maybe 15 feet, and so add five more feet to that. Does that explain >> somewhat? >> Okay. >> No. >> So, I think what you're what you're getting I've got a I've got your plat up >> and I'm scaling. So, >> yeah. >> Um, >> in the culde-sac, some of those homes that are adjacent to existing homes, >> correct, >> you're about 30 feet from that building itself, the property line. the the homes that back up to each other, you're 75 to 100. >> Yeah, that's right. >> 75 is the the smallest like it's only on maybe one or two, >> right? >> The dimension that you're explaining, I can't figure that out. You said 75 to what? >> Home to building to building. >> Can you put it up here? >> I can't I don't I'm not connected. >> If if the lot's 14 >> Excuse me. We can't take debate from the floor. if you wish to come up to the microphone afterwards. I'll let I'll I'll let a couple of minutes outside of the open forum, but I'll let you come up and talk then, but please please no yelling from the audience. We can't get it recorded and then into the minutes. >> Um, construction traffic. What street are you going to continue to be on for construction only? >> For home building construction? >> Yes. I think because our access has come off both both existing roads. One's that small culde-sac and one's upper 26th. I think we'd have traffic off of both of those. >> Down Henslow. >> I think it would come down both to get to get to the culde-sac. It would come down one side and get to the other street, come down the other. Um that's for home building traffic. We can work closely with staff for development traffic, um streets and utilities and grading. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Could you make a comment about the gas lines that are in the back and what protections are is going to exist for that? >> We've we've been in touch with the gas gas gas line company um and working closely with them regarding setbacks with regarding crossing their easements. their easement and the pipes will stay. Um, if I'm remembering correctly, I don't want to represent that, but they will stay and we're working with them um, in regards to setbacks, you know, landscaping and fencing and then crossing it as we bring city utilities across that pipeline. >> Basically, anything that goes over that has to be discussed and passed by. >> Oh, we need their approval. Absolutely. >> Anyone else have questions? >> Um, these are not pre-fabricated homes. These are traditional stick construction. >> Correct. Uh there was a couple questions on product. Um in in in the industry, in the home building industry, there's a distinct difference between a detached town home and a single family home. Uh a detached town home typically has an HOA fee or an HOA due. We're not proposing a homeowners association. So, we're calling these small lot single family and and they are small lot. Um after that, they are typical stick built on site. um not doing any prefab, not doing any uh modular or anything like that. It'll be framers out there, stick framing. Um the other thing is our products, the ones that are slab on grade, um we have one house that comes in about 1370 square ft. It's a unique design. The lower levels unfinished and so that lower level you'd finish and you'd be 2,000 square ft. At the the way we offer it, it's a three-bedroom, two bath. they can finish another bedroom and bath in the basement to get a four-bedroom, three bath. Um, the other house, the other traditional two-story is about 2,300 ft², fourbedroom, three bath. And even though our pictures don't show it, we are going to offer three-car garage on all of the houses out there. Um, and so it's going to be three-car garages. Um, we get that because we ask for a five and five sideyard setback. And so the house itself is 40 ft wide. Um, and it fits in and it's it's product that we've built in other neighborhoods. >> You're gonna get a threecar garage on those 50 foot lots. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If the plan you have there, if you look at it, the garage, if you look at the floor plan, if you turn it over, that garage is 20 ft wide and then the entry is 10 ft wide. So, that plan is 30 and a third car garage is 10 ft wide. It's tight and it works. >> I have a question. Um, can you clarify what a zipper configuration really is? >> You know, I was looking up that language in that letter and and uh I was kind of a little bit surprised at that. The original conversation between staff and council and Sentra happened with somebody else in in our company. And so I wasn't at that city council meeting with that zipper, but I so I'm I'm trying to interpret some things and understanding the meeting talking to the employee, but the idea is to try to stagger the houses, the smaller lot houses across the existing lots. And so instead of just having a match up lot line to lot line to stagger them kind of like how a zipper comes in. Um, and so I I feel also it was a bit of a confusing language or wording that was in the letter and I apologize for that, but I think it's more about how the lot lines, the backyards match up. >> So, what does what does it achieve to zipper the to stagger the houses? Because I'm just wondering if that zippering will still achieve privacy, which is something that's important to these residents. I think the zipper is is is like you said just the staggering um and so there's not it's not all backyards to backyards but the reality is it's tight. I mean doing 50 ft lots um it is going to be smaller lots than what's existing there. >> I just have a question about the garages. Uh why do you deem a third uh car garage necessary? Going back to what you said these are young family first-time home buyers. They're not having three cars. Divorcees, that's one person. They're not having three cars. Can you explain that? >> We just listen to our buyers and they often have a lot of toys. Um whether or not they have three cars, they use that space for storage. Think of trash cans, thinks of bikes, thinks of tools, thinks of lawnmowers, things of that sort. When when these yards are small like that, we don't see a lot of sheds or out buildings for that that type of storage. And so, a lot of people use it. It ends up getting used for all things, snowblowers, I mean, snowmobiles, boats, snowblowers, not always a third car, but it does fit. It's a 10 foot wide standard garage. >> And to to clarify though, you're not like these aren't just all 32 speck homes. You have one, you know, a couple speck homes and then >> we start off with specs and then they sell, >> right? And then as the buyer comes in, the buyer says, "I want a three-car garage." You give them that product. >> Correct. Correct. We're just paying attention to what's happening in the market, listening to buyers, talking to sales agents about what people want and what the buyers are asking for, and that's how we make those decisions. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> When you put out um this is in regards to communication. When you put out the invitation to the residents of the existing homes about the meeting you were trying to have on the night out, >> how much engagement did you get? >> I didn't hear back from anyone. And I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. It was on National Night Out. If they came to the meeting, I held it at the Lake Elmo library and Lake Elmo was having a big National City. There there's no parking. So, I want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt if they didn't reach out. Um, but I didn't hear from anyone. I had my phone number and my email and and things on that sort. So, >> how were there what was the model of their invitation? Was it did you >> a letter? >> A letter. >> You're correct. No, >> if they >> Whoa. I >> I don't know what happened then. >> And we do not have a requirement that developers hold neighborhood meetings. Correct. >> That's correct, Commissioner. >> And so if they didn't get a letter, I that is really concerning to me. Then I feel like they feel like I'm representing something that I didn't do. And so that's I don't I apologize to him, but I know I mailed 50 letters. So >> any further questions? Okay. Thank you, sir. >> Yeah. >> Do I want to do this irregular, but do I need to reopen the open forums officially, do you think, or just allow them to come forward? >> Mr. Sure. That' probably be just a safe move to open reopen the forum and then make sure you close it towards the end. Please >> reopening the open forum for a limited time. I'll I'll allow two two speakers to come forward. Sorry, but that's in in in due time. >> Thank you. Um Tim Sunsmo, 2732 Hensow Avenue. And along with all my other neighbors, none of us got that letter. And I have a full-size pickup and a Toyota RAV 4. And my garage is 16T wide and it's tight. We have a little bit of space on each side for the snowblowers and lawnmowers and things of that nature. You're not going to get three cars. I don't care. Unless you're using an awfully small vehicle to get in a 20 foot wide garage. It's It's unbelievable that they would even recommend that as a threecar garage. So, um, like I said, we're we're hearing a whole lot of lip and from the contractor and I don't think they're representing themselves well in front of you and I truly believe that you will look at that and take that into consideration. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. nominate your next next best one for your group. I think >> but I'll take one more >> tribute. >> Please give your name and address again. >> Lynn Hul, 2714 Hensow Avenue North. I just did the math on the lot size on our side. The lots are like 143 foot. And I went through the houses and they're going to be about 55 foot long. So, if you do the math, 143 minus 55, I think it came out to 87 feet per yard. If you divide it half front, half back, then that's like 40ome feet. So, their house is going to be about 40 feet from our lot line. So, not 100 ft or 80 feet as he mentioned. I >> think he was talking house to house, building to building, not house to lot line. Yeah. >> Building to building from what I can see on the platform. >> Building to building. Okay. >> So about 80 ft then. Okay. >> Thank you very much. Uh close this ex extended open forum. Any final comments from those on the commission? >> Just a comment. So saying nay would go back to the uh developer to >> No. >> No. Okay. it saying name is a we are we would be giving a a no recommendation to the city council which city council makes the decision. >> Got it. Okay. >> No, that's not >> we make the recommendation and they make the decision >> regardless of what our recommendation is. The developer always has the option to say, "Yep, let's continue on as planned. I want to make these changes. Maybe I need more time. Hey, I want to pull the whole thing." It still all remains with the developer in developer's hands. But under state law, he has there's a 60-day rule. He has to hear this in a certain amount of time. So the developer can on any project can always say, "Hey, I want more time. I want to massage some things." Or they may say, "No, we're happy. This is this is what we need to make this project work." We're going to continue to move forward. >> Okay. Again, any further comments from anyone? >> Uh uh I just want to thank you all for coming and speaking out because uh this is important. I've been here for at least two some years. Never seen this room this full. So it tells me that what we have here is something that need to be sort of looked up a little bit closer. >> Uh you folks have been in neighborhood for quite some time. you have leave the neighborhood for quite some time. You invest in the neighborhood and you have somebody that's coming to do something good for the neighborhood. And I think uh you all deserve the um the attention and the outreach that you should have as longtime invested neighborhood. In my opinion, I think we need to send the contractor back, the developer back to the neighborhood, have a conversation and come back to us. For that reason, it seems like that has not been done. I don't know. I would be wrong. So, I'm not going to vote for this. >> Okay. Anyone else have comments? >> I wonder what if I could. I've been fortunate to live in Oakdale since 1986, just down by East Side Park. So, I'm just south of this. I've always known this property was going to get built. I think everybody knew this. So, it's that part is not a surprise. It is a beautiful area. We have and I have to believe everybody on this commission has gone by and looked at every problem. That's what we do. That's part of our job. So, we've all gone and took a look, drove around, took a look at this area. I do a lot of my walks. I go to this area. I've gone enough time to Menards. I've gone by this area enough times. It is a beautiful area, but it wasn't always going to stay this way. Understand that. I think you guys see that. But I do have a problem also with the character of the neighborhood is changing. Um the developers got to build make money by doing this, but I think the lot sizes are too small. So I am myself are going to be in in favor of not not in favor of this and in in the resoning aspect of this. I believe it should be developed. I believe it should be developed though. I don't think and needs to go back. Now the city council has had at least I know probably I don't know a couple workshops with the developer working on this. It was originally at one time 40 foot lots. So I mean believe me so the city council has been working on this as well. So, it's not like they've done nothing. They've they're pushing as well with this. Chris made a good point. It's a developer's hands. He can pull it, take it, do what he wants. That's very calm. In my opinion only, is that um changing the um from R2 to R3, I will be voting against that part of it. So in in essence, I'm voting against I'm for the development, but in order to get it done right, that's what I'm going to go. So that's my opinion. >> I think as a commission though, we have to we have to give respect to the land owner and their ability to develop and do with their land what they want. We also have to understand that residential development today is very different than 40 years ago when many of these homes were built. You know, we all think $4 to $500,000 homes are expensive on a 60 foot lot, 50 foot lot, apologies. Um, you know, what's that going to be if you put it on an 80 foot lot? Does that push it up to 500,000? Does it push up to 600,000? It makes it even more unattainable for people as a community, locally, county, state. We're underhoused and we need to think creatively about how do we get additional units into our community. Um, you know, could the developer have done some things maybe differently? Sure. Um, you know, I appreciate everybody coming out and and making their voices heard, but I'm I'm going to support the project as presented. >> Okay. Anyone else wish to make comments? I think based on based on the communication piece and the rather shaky manner in which it all happened um I would like to put this back to the developer to have a conversation with the community and the residents there. um and really clearly communicate what it is they are seeking to do, how they plan to do it, and I think there was a question about market research and and really explain all those pieces to the members in that community so that people understand where you're coming from and what it is you're trying to do. We all understand that there are homes that will be built there. But it's important that people understand the why and the how and all that. All those pieces that are very important, especially for families. I have a very young family and um I've lived through a development happen and have been affected and things like that. So I get it and so I would put it back to the developer to to take care of that piece. Go back and take care of that piece. so that you have a community that is rooting for you and are willing, you know, to to have the patience for this to happen. So, in regards to reszoning, I would vote nay at this point. >> Commissioner Sha, with all due respect, though, that's an undue burden on the developer. >> That's not a requirement of our of our ordinances. It's not a requirement that they hold community meetings. So to to push it back on them and and tell them, "Hey, you have to do something more, I think, is is burdensome on them and and shouldn't even I mean, it was nice enough that they tried the first time around. >> We shouldn't make them do something that nobody else has to do." >> Okay? >> Because it's not a requirement. >> Agreed. >> And that's that's a conversation for the council, not us, unfortunately. That's why these people are here. >> I hear what you're saying and I stand corrected. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and I'm new to this so I stand corrected and I'm learning as I'm going. >> Yaya's got the floor right now. >> Go ahead. Not not to beat a dead horse, but I'll tell you something. Zoning is about doing what the vision of the city and the people want to do. Okay? I'm the zoning administrator for the city of St. Paul. I do land use for 20 years. So I've seen all these things play out, developers, the community and all that. It's about compromise. I think I know the rules what the rules are. The rules are made by the people and the people can change the rules. I know that's not what we're supposed to do today. >> We're not we're not the agency. >> We can't change them at >> I get it. I'm just saying that's not what we're here for. >> Y put a context. But I think it it it is in our purview to have the developer go back to community have a conversation and come back to something that we all can look at and say you know what is not perfect but we can make it work. So, I get it. But where I stand right now is that I think for my my in my opinion, I'm not voting for this because I don't think the the developer had done his due diligence in transparency, outreach, and all that because what I'm seeing here, they're saying it wasn't done. So, I'm not comfortable with moving forward with anything. I'd like to ask Luke how how long have they been working with the city on this? >> So, Commissioner, I'd have to go back and it's actually in the uh the agenda pack and when the workshop was held, I believe is >> December 2024. So, the developer engaged with early discussions with city staff. I I would say it's it's safe to say, you know, November, October of 2024. So, they've been working with the city and compromising on some of their positions already then. Correct. >> Correct. Council member or >> the city or the community? >> City council and the city staff. >> Okay. >> Do you have any comments? You since we're doing a round, Robin, do you want to do anything? >> Okay. I'll only make comment at this point that we are a recommendation group and that uh if you've ever watched any of the other ones with me, I basically follow very closely on property rights and the rights of the individuals own the property to make a lot of the decisions for the future of their property. That doesn't mean you always get what you want as as neighbors especially, but you'd feel the same way if it was your property and someone else was telling you things to do. It's a hard it's a hard problem. It's a very difficult one, but it's the way we it's the way it is. People buy buy the land, they have property rights themselves. So, with that, I will call for a motion. I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the resoning for Oakdale Glenn. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I >> I. All those opposed? >> Nay. >> Nay. >> Okay. I think I'm going to have to call for a hand count because I don't want to miss step on this one. All those in favor raise your hand. >> I. >> All those opposed, raise your hand. >> N. >> Thank you. The recommend >> only a recommendation. >> The recommendation fails, but we'll proceed to the city council. >> Thank you very much. >> Need to vote on the plat. >> On the plat. You're right. Next is the plat. >> Now motion to recommend approval of the prelim preliminary plat for Oakdale Glenn. >> Second. >> Okay. All those in favor? >> I. >> I. >> I. All those opposed? >> Name. >> Four against three four. Motion fails. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming. You've voiced your opinion. >> Okay. The next item of business is >> we have another wait a couple of minutes for the for the build for the room to clear. >> We're still in session. So, if you can hold your comments and take them outside, please. >> If you can take your comments outside, please. We're still in session. >> Could those in the back of the room please exit so that we can speak on the next issue? get your money's worth tonight. >> Gary, could could you close the door so they can talk out in the hall? Long story short, >> okay, moving on to the next order of business, a public hearing for the 9inth Street Landing, 7303 10th Street North, reszoning and preliminary plat. Luke, your report, please. >> So, thank you. Yes, the location of this uh site, the development is 770310th Street North, as you just mentioned. So, uh, very similar to the last request, this is a two-part application. So, it's, uh, number one, it's a resoning and the second part is a preliminary plat. So, the developer here is Prelude Homes and Services. They're seeking the reszoning and the replatting of the property. Uh, the so the site consists of approximately 6 acres. There is an existing homestead here on the site and uh the site also contains contains wetland here which uh limits where development can can functionally occur. So as uh required by the city's subdivision ordinance, an outlot must be created for the wetland and there's again quite a bit of wetland here and also uh the outlot has to contain the storm water feature that that we'll show here in just a moment as well. and that outlaw would eventually be convey conveyed owned and um maintained by the city. The developer states here that the the subdivision and I should back up just a moment here. So this is a a five lot single family subdivision. So the developer states that the units the the five homes would be market rate or they are in other words they are not income restricted. So the zoning of the site is R2 lowdensity residential and similar to the uh last request the R2 zoning district allows 80 foot wide lots for single family homes and the proposal here is to reszone it to R3 in order to allow 50 foot wide lots for single family homes. So the the comprehensive plan for the the city it guides the site for lowdensity residential and the only allowed residential use in that category is single family homes. So access to the site it uh there is u like I mentioned an existing homestead there that is accessed off 10th street but as part of this development that 10th street access would be decommissioned and the uh new access to this development would be via upper 9inth street. So currently upper ninth street it it only serves platinum bank there but the idea here is to extend it and have a culde-sac and um the culde-sac will serve the the new homes. Um so at because the upper ninth street is a public road uh the it only extends halfway the developer would be required to build out fully build out that road up to their property and then fully build out that culde-sac as well. Uh moving on to the the uh the the resoning here. Uh just a little bit more details. Again, it's the request is to reszone it from R2 to R3 to enable the five lots for single family homes. And uh just to review the reszoning criteria, there are two criteria that that are found in our ordinance that we have to go by. So the first one is consistency with the city's comprehensive plan and number two is the capacity for the city's existing infrastructure and public services to serve this property. So according to the city's comprehensive plan, the subject property again is uh designated for lowdensity residential single family homes. Uh the comp plan specifically identifies this property for future development opportunity. And there is the another policy within the the comprehensive plans housing chapter that uh says to promote um zoning of land and guiding it for a full range of housing choices to include single family homes. So with that, just uh given the policies and the guidance within the comp plan, as well as the the location of the subject area being within a residential neighborhood being adequately serviced by uh public assets, staff finds that the the resoning request is appropriate. And then I want to move on to the subdivision plat here. And the the plat is what would u dice up the lot and and create the the five homes there. So, um, currently the site as mentioned it, it contains one existing home and that the plan is to retain that existing home and that would be on proposed lot three there on the screen. As mentioned, uh, the wetland and the wetland buffer areas, the storm water feature, the proposed storm water features on the east side there where my cursor is, that would all have to be carved off into an outlot and again deed to the city for ownership and maintenance. Um I do want to mention that uh developer would have to update their plan just there are some technical adjustments that need to be made uh for that outlaw to to fully capture the wetland and the buffer area and the storm water as well. Um so due to the um the culdesac the proposed culde-sac offper 9 street the developer uh is you know working with the the area that they have the buildable area and so that the developer is seeking the the resoning here to accommodate the narrower lots in terms of tree preservation. Uh the city has a very robust tree preservation ordinance and the developer must submit a tree preservation plan in accordance with the city's tree regulations and they must obtain the approval for that tree tree plan uh as part of their final plat submittal which which is forthcoming. It will eventually u make its way to the city council if if this preliminary plan gets gets approved. So um there are no sidewalk connections off via upper upper ninth street here but there is an existing sidewalk on the east side of Helmo Avenue. So as such in the uh the city subdivision ordinance we do have a requirement that developers have to build out the sidewalk connection to help build out or complete that pedestrian system. So you'll see that in one of the conditions that our recommendation is that the developer build out the sidewalk on Upper 9th Street. In terms of utilities, the subject property again is it's served by Upper 9inth Street and there are existing water and sewer lines that are stubbed on the the south side of this property. So to conclude, uh staff finds that the developer resoning request and the preliminary plat are consistent with the the policies of the comprehensive plan and the city's ordinance as detailed in the staff report on file. So staff recommends approval of both requests subject to the following conditions that are found in the resolution in the jacket uh the agenda packet rather. This is uh page 39 in the agenda. So 10 conditions of approval here. So I'll summarize those. Number one is approval of a reszoning to the R3 zoning district. Number two, execution of a development agreement. Number three, approval of the site civil construction plans. Number four, satisfaction of park dedication payment. Uh number five, uh the revision to the outlaw to fully encompass the wetland, the buffer area, storm water feature, and its access to Upper 9 street. So, and just to be clear, the the storm water pond would be solely accessed via the upper ninth street culde-sac. Number six, the developer would have to be uh required to install a sidewalk along Upper 9th Street. Uh they would also have to be uh responsible for building out the entirety of upper nine street to serve this development. Uh number eight, uh the plat would have to be updated to depict any necessary drainage and utility easements in accordance with the the city's code. Number nine, the developer has to submit a tree preservation plan uh with a final plat submittal. And then number 10, outside government agency approvals have to be obtained by the developer. So, um, just as a reminder, or I'm getting ahead of myself here, I want to acknowledge again that, uh, similar to the last request, there there have been written public comments that were provided to the city in opposition to to this request, and those comments were forwarded to the planning commission for review prior to this meeting. Uh, we also received a phone call from a resident late this afternoon just in opposition to the request. So, as a reminder, this is a public hearing. Uh, the developer is here in attendance. if you have questions for them. And um just as a reminder to the audience here, what what the how this process will unfold. Again, the planning commission, it's recommending body. Um they will hold the public hearing and then uh the the city council would act on this request at a later time, likely August 26, but that's always subject to change. But with that, I'd be happy to answer questions from the commission. >> Thank you, Luke. I do have one first question on your uh plat drawing. >> Yes. uh that lower pond I think you refer to as a buffer. Uh how what is the what is the dimension of that? I don't see it in a way I can read it on the on the drawing. >> So the storm water pond. >> Yeah. What's the width of that going from the the lot line of four and five to the street? >> I don't have the dimensions offhand chair. um the developer might be able to speak to that, but in the meantime, I can try to look at the plans and and determine. >> Anyone else have any questions for Luke? >> Right now, >> I do. Um for the uh the sidewalk connection, the sidewalk you're talking about, right? Is it the public sidewalk or a walkway from each of the houses to the man sidewalk? >> So, Commissioner, yep. the the sidewalk that staff is recommending it would be a public sidewalk um extending from Helmo Avenue along Upper 9 street and then um to the the the culde-sac bulb there roughly where the cursor is if that answers the question. >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it does. Um I have another question about a parkland dedication. Is it uh ignore my uh my my ignorance but is this u land or cash for parkland dedication fee? >> Yep. So the the park dedication uh would come in the form of cash because there are no official city plans for a park on this property. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else have questions for Luke? >> Just a quick one. Does the existing upper ninth need to be changed existing one not of the new culac part but the existing that basically feeds the bank is the width of it still okay nothing has to be done to that >> yep uh so commissioners um it currently terminates halfway through the bank property and my understanding from um engineering review it it's upper n street does not have to be widened but it does have to fully be built out to this site. >> Okay, last call. Anybody else have any questions for Luke? >> Would the developer care to come forward? >> Yes. >> Can you state your name and company, please? >> Yep. Phil Domer. I'm the owner and founder of Prelude, uh, which includes Prelude Homes and Services, and the applica applicant here is actually Prelude Holdings. And I appreciate your, uh, attention tonight. While our proposal is um similar in the request to the prior, there are many contrasting differences. I'm here to ask your recommendation to the council for approval. I'm going to start off a little bit different than I normally do in a setting like this because I want to give you a little bit of background on Prelude Homes. We did uh provide some letters out to immediately adjacent neighbors. We did get some calls on those. uh we did not mail to the whole Oakrun shores and after the prior um hearing we probably should have done that too. So I apologize to that but um we have a number of differences here that I think are are important and I hope the audience will see those as well. First, Prelude uh Homes and Services is a uh senior care operator. That is our core business. That is not what this property is about. our company and I'm going to have a handout to you in a second. Um, our company has about 270 employees and we have a unique benefit package where we assist our frontline teams in gaining home ownership. Uh, that will not be happening on this property. What we do in these scenarios, we own this property. One of our employees did live there. I just s could I ask that the conversation in the back which is interfering with our discussion. Please hold until you come forward for the open forum. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um so we do these kind of projects. We own this property. We had one of our employees there. She has moved on to home ownership and we always look for properties where we start this that we can subdivide in the future. That helps us generate capital for additional home ownership opportunities elsewhere. This is purely a small real estate development. We intended to be good stewards here and a high quality development. It it allows us to have uh retain our greatest asset and that's employees. Prelude Holdings is the entity by which we do that and that is the applicant here. So um I my son uh Graham is with me tonight. He's actually in charge of Prelude Holdings. He's going to pass out a presentation to you. I understand the camera that we could have used here is not available. So, we've provided it in paper form. I made a uh some copies and you can spread those out and share those among the group. Uh Luke, I'd ask you if you would to put up the plat on here if you could and perhaps you can help me with a cursor or a a pointer since that camera is not available. So, a couple of key differences. One, we own this property. We're not buying it or speculating. We already own the property. Uh, two, um, and as you'll see on on your sheet, just to point out, we're award-winning, uh, senior care provider, and we intend to stay that way, and that's why we need great employees. We've really identified three areas to focus on. Uh the first is transportation and traffic. Um and I'm pulling these from the comments we have heard, but also from doing this for since 1986. Um those are these are common things that we want to address and when we went into the design process, we addressed them. I will point out that we did deliberately uh wait for the R3 new ordinance to come in because I think this property is worthy of that and we can do this property without variances or PUD under the new code and I think that's one of the things the city worked hard at. So, transportation to traffic. The the first thing we're going to do is we're going to close, if you could help me with a pointer, Luke, uh that 10th Street access 10th Street at that location has over 10,000 vehicle trips a day. And having personally used that entrance off and on, that is not a great access. So, we're going to close that. The only traffic that comes into Upper 9th Street Landing comes off of a street which nobody else uses. Does not go into Oakrun Shores, goes into the bank, but no other um traffic will be servicing our neighborhood except a a um rightway that I want to point out and make part of the record was dedicated previously to serve this property. We're just going to build it out. We didn't dedicate it. that was done previously. Has always been a plan to serve this property with that right away. Uh second or third, the estimated vehicle trips today to serve 9inth Street and this is the traffic engineers institute is 48. So we'll have 48 vehicle trips a day. Contrast that with 10th Street which is over 10,000. Helmo is 4,500 vehicle trips a day. Hensow immediately to our south. So the four homes that above us, they have 280 vehicle trips a day. Um projected Helmo um excuse me, Heron has 390 vehicle trips a day. So you can see the traffic we will generate is minuscule and it's only on the street we will build. There are no other residents that come off of that. So that's transportation and traffic and I I'll respond to other questions and concerns on that uh environmental. So if you'll flip to your in your handout there, there's the one with the large outlot on it. So Luke, if you want to maybe trace around the huge area that we're going to dedicate and it runs all the way along the south and then back up to the culde-sac. If you look on that drawing on the handout that I've provided, our development is actually very small. We are going to dedicate while everybody's enjoying this natural land, it's never been dedicated environmentally. We will dedicate that and it will now become an official part of a preserved area that's nearly 4 acres. So, we are providing that. Our development area is about 60,000 square feet. So, pretty small compared to the whole that we own. So, we'll make that official. The other thing is the area that that uh currently divides the wetland area, uh we're going to remove that. So, that 10th Street driveway, if you run up and down there, please, Luke. Thank you. We're going to remove that and restore that to natural. So, those are environmental advantages that we intend to make. On to compatibility. That was a big uh issue on the the prior hearing and I think we uh are working hard to be compatible. I think the nature of the of having done this this way has allowed us to do that. number one. Uh if you flip to the last um page in your handout, the one with the uh yellow culde-sac on it, our lots, in spite of being under the R3, the new R3, our lots are actually bigger than the properties that abut us to the south in terms of square footage. Number one. Number two, if you look on the bottom of that drawing that you have in your hand, there's a number one circled. We have one house that abuts all the neighbors in the same area that Oakrun Shores has four homes that abut us. Further deliberately, our largest lot, almost 20,000 square feet, which is almost double the lots to the south, that lot is adjacent to Oakland Shore. So, we've tried to be respectful. We've tried to be sensitive and our homes are compatible compatible. The difference between our property and maybe the one you heard before or some others that have been considered um we will have all walkout lots. These will be individually um developed single family homes and I intend that they're the same character and quality of the homes around us. Um, under the new construction today, I expect that they will start in the 600s. Uh, I do think it's a great opportunity for someone to do a um, a move down product for an empty neester. And the reality of that buyer is while they say they're moving down, they usually spend a lot of money on their finishes and storage and so forth. So, that that's our hope. Um the existing house will be remodeled and as you can see again if you refer back to the environmental the um the development really is very small and we're surrounded and have buffered ourselves from the adjoining neighborhood. We don't interact with them um except for the the uh views. Last thing I'm going to say because I want to be transparent. There will be tree removal just like there was in Oakran Shores. I was around when that was developed. There was a lot of grading and a lot of removal there and there will be some of that here too and we will replace according to the new ordinance that was passed at the same time the R3 ordinance was passed. So that's our commitment. Um there's not a care facility going in here. We're not going to build duplexes. We're going to do single family homes. Let the record show that we comply with the comprehensive plan. We comply with the infrastructure requirements. Those are their the standards for approval. And so I ask your approval of this plat. I would ask that um I'm I'm excited, maybe apprehensive to hear from the neighbors um if I'm honest, but I would ask that if they would identify where they live in relation to our property and then also if I could have the chance to come up and clarify anything that or answer any questions when that is finished. As with the previous, we will allow you to come back and respond to questions. >> Anyone else have questions for the developer before he leaves? >> The only other question I had is >> Yes. >> I I can see one of the one on the south is like a 15 or 20 foot uh band that you're leaving as is. How about on the east side from the east lot line to the uh east of the property? What's >> Yeah, that's almost 100 feet. Almost 100 feet. >> Yeah. And then it's the entire north twothirds of the property. >> All woods and and swamp. >> Yeah. Just to point out there's a lot of deadfall there that So, we'll be cleaning up the trees and we'll have a better quality natural area as well. >> Anyone else have a question for the building? >> Just the trees. Where do you think the majority of the trees will come down? >> They will be on the south side of the property to accommodate the the utilities. Let me point something else out as well. So, we have the Ninth Street plat, right? That was done by somebody else planning this. The utilities came from Oakland Shores. I've kept my eye on this property because, as I said, I've been around that long, you can tell. Um, but that the utilities came from Oakland Shores to serve this piece. So, I've kept my eye on this piece of property as a future site. And, um, it's been planned and I think this is a great execution of it. I hope you'll agree. >> Anyone else have questions? Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> At this point, I will open the public forum. Same rules as I discussed with the earlier one. Maybe some of you haven't been here. Overall time we goal is for a 30 minute discussion. Uh please be courteous to each other and allow others to talk. So limit yourself to three minutes and uh don't repeat everything that the person before you has said. Try to make it strictly new information different from what has been said before. So at that point I open the public forum. Anyone wishing to come forward to to make comment to this issue, please come forward. >> Good evening everyone. I'll take this. I'm short. Uh my name is Jeannie Farley and I'm here with Dan Sutherland. Uh we recently bought a home on 812 Hensow Avenue North. That is the property that is directly Can you pull up the map please on that lower south that west corner. So we are um right there to the left of that there is a pond um if you can kind of see in there. So we are actually on the south side um the side that's probably going to be impacted the most by this change. Uh, so we're here tonight representing ourselves and more than 180 people who have signed a petition opposing the resoning and preliminary plat 10th Street North. Uh, many of these signatures are from Oakdale residents in direct neighbors right in that area. We're not against development. I want to make that clear. I understand this is how communities evolve, but we strongly oppose reszoning this parcel from R2 to R3. Any development should stay within R2 zoning, lowdensity residential to match the neighborhood's character and also respect the land. Uh, as you know, this developer is requesting R3 zoning. Um, you did speak to this earlier, Phil, and I appreciate that. Um, we were under the impression that this was Prelude Homes and Services as the city told us that was who put in the application. So, I just want to make sure that it's very clear that there's um not an opportunity for this developer to come in after we get the zoning done and then amend those plans. Um the developer here is not a traditional single family home developer. So, this request is inconsistent with their established development history. Um this parcel, as you guys can see, uh contains a protected wetland. Um we're concerned about the buffer um that's going to impact our homes. As I mentioned, we bought this home two months ago and one of the reasons we paid a premium for this home is because of this area and I can uh speak for I would say many neighbors in the area that surround this parcel that that is a big reason that they chose to live here and paid a premium price for our homes here. So, we are worried about how um that could impact our our property values in the future. I'm worried how it's going to impact um us just as homeowners as we've grown to love this area um this natural wildlife, the mature trees and natural habitat which Phil spoke to um a little bit. So again, if development must proceed, we'd like residents to be more invited and kind of welcome, you know, open to sharing our concerns and be invited to work on shaping this. So a more of a collaborative effort. Um, a true collaborative community, which is what I would hope from Oakdale. So we're not just residents here. We are stakeholders. We are invested. We're informed. We're engaged. And we're asking for leadership that reflects long-term thinking, environmental responsibility, and respect for the community. that's already here. So, we're asking to deny the resoning request and preliminary plat as is. We are so open to working with Phil here who has a great track record building many, many homes. Um, we also just ask you to consider we don't need to build on every single last green space in this community. Um, I would invite you guys to come over and see what these homes really look like. um see the space, see the green space that we all call home today and the community members that are investing into this community. We pay taxes. I believe that we should have a voice in this. So, >> that you haven't already said. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> Hello. Uh my name is Kirby Demile. Uh, I live on uh um 83 uh 139 Street North. Um I'm the uh president of HOA over there. So, um, when I look at this map and I was paying attention a little bit and he talk about 6 acre and uh and he talks a lot about uh um the wetland and the buffer and how they're going to fill the buffer and how they're going to move uh you know the uh drain system, the um uh the drainage and uh the storm water and all that stuff. So I live in this neighborhood for a little over 12 years and I remember uh the city of Oakdale stretching, you know, to the uh HOA, you know, to remind the neighbors not to mess with the wetland, you know, to stay away from the wetland. You know, you telling us to abide by the law, by the regulation, you know, and to take care of wildlife, you know, to the turtle, you know, and we've been following that. And now the city of Oakgell, you know, is deciding that uh, hey, huh, guess what? It's time for us to just throw the regulation away, you know, because it benefit us and we're going to just sell this piece of land, you know, to somebody and uh we don't care about the wildlife or we just want to just ignore the little wildlife and just uh you know fill uh you know this wet land and you know it's not a big deal. I I'm not against uh you know development is okay. I know we not all going to get what we want. Okay. I'm open for uh discussion. Okay. Um uh I'm open for diplomacy. I'm open to listen to you. You know if you come over and have a discussion that's totally fine. you know uh but it it will be great to have a discussion and you know just like a playing tennis you know point idea uh from each other you know so when I look at this uh uh uh schematic it looks like uh we are flying with a blind eye you know because it doesn't really tells a lot when I was listening to look you know explaining that uh uh it looks like you know we don't have a full picture yet because he says something about uh uh you know uh uh you know when he was talking about the buffer he says oh uh they don't have a full picture about this yet so what if we approve that and uh plan change they decide to do something different I I think you know they need to have a full plan first before you know uh we get to vote, you know, please let them have a full plan first, you know, before we get to vote. I think that's the right thing and the moral thing to do, you know. We cannot just have them approve something and then decide later on that that that's not how things roll. You know we are we now on on your seat. You know we don't have all the power that you guys have. You know all we have is just to come here and tell you you know what we are thinking. You know we are telling you asking you you know to listen to us. Please do not approve you know this thing without uh getting the full picture of what they intending to do. You know we're not against uh developing but please care about the wildlife too. You know Oakgell doesn't have a lot of space. You know if you look at behind Hive you know each that that that used to be a wet land they fill it you know. uh we don't have any green space anymore. You know what what what's going to be next? Are they going to just take care of a golf course and you know run shore and just sell that to you know what what is going to be next? So that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> I'll just make one comment. Oakdale doesn't own any of that land. So we we have that's all that's all private property. >> Which one? this area that's being discussed is >> Oh, no. I I I understand. >> Yeah. You you said Oakdale selling and we >> No, no, no, no. But approving, you know, to uh you know, but but the last word come to Oakdale, you know, to approve to develop it. That that's what I I meant to say, you know, the last word come to uh the city council, you know. So, that's what I meant to say. I'm sorry, you know, if that was a little bit confusing. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Yeah. Thank you, ma'am, sir. Anyone else wish to come forward? >> I'll be quick. >> Hi. Uh, my name is Ned. Uh, my full name Nad or Ned Iconamski. Uh, I am at 7889 9th Street Court North. Uh, part of the Oakran Shores neighborhood. I too with Kirby am part of the HOA board of directors. Um, and just want to second everything you said, but I don't want to repeat things. So, my only question is that maybe there'll be an opportunity to ask the developer afterwards. Um, I still don't understand why they're requesting R3 uh R3. Is that what? Yeah, R3. Um, and what is it about the current zoning in R2 that is insufficient for their intention of building these five single family homes? That's all. >> That's I just need a clarification. Thank you. >> We'll let the developer come forth and perhaps answer that later. Good evening, Chad Berscie, 892 Herod Avenue. We're directly east um of the property. Um I agree with everything that has been said so far. Um one of the big challenges I have though, the back of that lot currently is quite sloped. Um it slopes into the wetlands and so as I think about that drainage pond and the trees that would come down supporting the wetlands, a concern is that elevation is not flat. So building a pond is going to negatively affect my property as that's built. And so having to really understand how that's going to work because right now it's it slopes into our yard and there's quite a bit of elevation change. So that's my big concern on the property especially um as well as the wetlands that um that water flows from Oakrun Shores through our neighbor through our yard into the wetlands and that's just going to add more water. So that's that is our biggest concern in addition to the loss of trees and how it's going to affect the uh neighborhood in general. So thank you. Thank you. Hello, my name is Matt Curtis. I'm 875 Heron Avenue North. Um, this is, you know, quite an upsetting um thing to learn two weeks before uh the uh open forum gives us a chance to speak about this. Um I am quite concerned as well with uh the fact that there this is um something that uh currently has quite a lot of momentum and it does not seem that there has been a single voice of support from any single person in the community. Um any mentions from par letters calls um from Mr. Malahan has all been about opposition. Um, and I wonder about the slippery slope that this could take when the one voice of a developer who owns land, which many of the people in uh these communities own land of their own, uh, when their one voice trumps the 180 voices plus that have shown opposition to resoning. Um, there are many other concerns I have. Um, but these are the main ones. Um, and so I guess the other thing I would like to know is how is this necessary to our community to improve it and how is this justifiable? Um, there is uh it is given what you've said about taking our voices into account. It is it would be I guess shocking to find um support uh to uh to reszone and uh yeah. Thank you. Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is Tom Tel. I live at 791 Heron Avenue, which is just down the road a little bit from this development. I support everybody else that's said the things that they've said and I too had the question about the R2 versus R3. I do appreciate the developer being here to answer the questions but two things came to mind after hearing all of the uh proposal. One is the culdeac and I've experienced this before. If it's not made big enough for firet truck to turn around, you could have a problem if one of the units catches fire. And I've actually seen that in the one the row houses they built off 12th Street. Also, is there a concern coming out on the upper ninth street north on Helml? Is there a way to turn left out of there at all? Otherwise, all the residents are going to have to go to the right as they come out. That's just a question I'm not sure of. But, um, thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Good evening. Uh my name is Todd Leeard and I live at 7613 7th Street North just uh about 8 houses down from the project here. I just have a couple questions and uh it's been brought up before about the wetlands. Now I moved in 26 years ago and there was a big deal. I lived right by a property who had a little bit of wetland and I just want to know what the criteria is if you take up some wetland. I was to understand that it had to be reinstalled somewhere else or made available at a certain rate and forgive me I don't know what that is but it is something that they have to do. Correct. So if they take away this wetland here they have to reproduce more wetland. Is that right? So, so I don't know all of the ins and outs, but that was actually a point that I was going to make is there's been a lot of questions about R2. Under the current R2 zoning in Minnesota, there is uh what's called a wetland bank. And so, you can take an infill wetlands and you have to buy those wetland credits or provide a wetland somewhere else in the state. >> That's what >> So, technically, this developer, if they wanted to, could fill in all of that wetland because it's not deed to the city. it's private wetland right now develop up to 30 homes under the current R2 zoning. So by reszoning to R3, yes, they're getting, you know, you're making a concession because the the front of the lots are smaller, but the developer is is really limiting um their ability to develop to fully develop the site to just these five lots. So it could be I mean they could have gone a much further under the existing zoning and they're choosing not to do that. >> So they don't have to recreate. I'm going from 26 years ago when it happened to me. >> I don't know if they're if they're taking any wetlands right now. >> Well, they would be if if if you look at the satellite and what this you know it's hard for a layman to read all the measurements on a print like this. And I guess I really just don't appreciate the fact that he came up here as the builder and said, "Well, I apologize I didn't get a hold of anybody." Because of this is just really new news to me. And I just really appreciate this young couple here that bought that home and I know that home and now all of a sudden, you know, it's in their dreams to have this cuz I have the same type of deal. I have a nice view of the woods and everything and I'd be upset if it happened to me. So if you did do something and they may limited it to some of the homes on the other side of the bank and I don't know who would want to sit in from their front and look at a bank but that's up to them but that couple should not be have a house and all their brush and trees and all that stuff taken down. That's my opinion. And then the other thing is I guess I don't understand well how the driveway ties into the culdeac. is they're going to be so you've got Platinum Bank and they only have an exit. You got to go through it like the one gentleman said. You can't turn left. You got to go through and out the other way. So you can only turn right cuz they have a peninsula where the roads go this way and this way off of 10th Street. So is there going to be three driveways there now or am I misreading it? The existing road is the is the stub right there at the south side of the Platinum Bank parking lot. And they have a driveway off of 9inth Street. >> Okay, let me think here. So, >> I apologize. I'm going to approach one of you. >> I can try. >> So, okay. So, here's the flat in the bank. This is their exit. And that peninsula is right here. >> This is a two-way road that comes in as a dead end right here. >> They have a entrance to the bank. So they're going to come out this. Well, no, because the entrance off to the bank is off of Ninth. So they're just going to use Ninth and come out here and that's full access. >> Another entrance next. >> Correct. >> Okay, that's >> So those the the the driveways onto Helmo don't change. >> Okay, that's concerning. I didn't want another driveway there. it. So, um, in closing, I just would like you to check on the wetland deal and take into account if you were a young couple and bought a house like that, you wouldn't want somebody to come in and build right away. If they would have told them what when did you move in? >> Two months ago, >> two months ago, if the builder would have came in and said, "I'm going to tell all the residents this and then the person that owned that house knew it and passed it on." Well, just so you know, they're going to build right here. They probably wouldn't have bought. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Got it. >> Anyone else wish to come forward to make comment? >> My name is Christina Sanvi. I'm at 641 Huron Court North in Oakland Shores. Um I am also on the HOA board. Another point I would like to point out is the house. Is it next to you? >> Yes. >> Has a sold sign on it right now. I doubt it's gone to closing. But again, we received zero notification on this. Absolutely none at all except for this couple who came and then as an HOA, we forwarded out the message this morning to everybody in our community. And I think a big concern for our community is with Helmo Avenue being developed with the busing down by Fourth Street, we've got um it's I think a fivestory apartment building that's gone in down there. at Helmo right across from the bus station and then right next to it is um senior apartments that are being built that is also going to be multile multi-story so I think a big piece of it is when we think of prelude homes we get concern that again it's going to be a multi-level facility if it goes to an R3 zone at least that's my big concern is it going to change because now it can be multilevel. So, I understand a 50-foot uh front yard. I mean, I live in a court. Our front yards are pretty small and then we kind of go out, you know, pie shape. I understand that. But, um the big concern, I guess, is what's listed as house number, I think it's five on the south side of it. Um the rest of it, I was glad to see what we have there. But again, for those people that are along um Hensow on that south side, those abuing properties, um I I'm sure that you figure at some point it is going to be developed. I mean, I think that about the lot that's in my court cuz we're right on the golf course. Um I think someday something might happen to that golf course and there's a really good chance that it's going to be developed. That's the reason why we bought where we are because we have behind us what's called Huron Lake by some people. But all I know is all of this green space all along they all dump into that Huron Lake and they get backed up sometime in the spring with stuff and they overflow into yards and then it goes from Huron Lake into the wetlands that are right along 10th Street on the south side and everything just seems joined together and like I said we've had issues in the past where water collects and it ends up in properties and we don't have a lot of space. I mean, that lake varies tremendously, especially with the amount of rain we've had. So, you know, when the one neighbor's saying he's already concerned because it's going down towards his property at the moment, um I would be really concerned about a wet basement if I was him. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else wish to come forward to make comment? Okay, I'll offer one more time before I close the uh open forum. Uh anyone else wishes to come forward? >> Uh good afternoon. I'm Darren Anderson from 817 Hensow. We're directly across Hensow Avenue from Lot 2 um or two on the last page of this. Um it uh I would echo the hydraological concerns that many people have said about drainage um as well as the wetland concerns. Um I would ask that we be sure that the developer is taking care during construction that the wetlands aren't damaged. Even though it's being protected, it's very easy for runoff for materials to get in those wetlands and destroy the fragile ecosystem. Um, beyond that, I want to make sure that everyone's aware, which you probably are, there are a lot of protected species that live within this area. There's, um, at least one pair of sandill cranes that nests or at least resides in this zone, as well as a huge raft of other things, great horned owls, red belly woodpeckers, all of which are under the migratory birds act. Um, we want those kind of things to be protected in Minnesota just in general, but in this community as well, many people have said we bought because of the nature. So, we want to be sure that that's protected. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, last offer again. Anyone wish to come forward before I close the open forum? And I'll offer just one more time just to make sure. Anyone wish to come forward before I close the open forum? Okay, I close the open forum and I'll invite the developer to come forward to answer questions if he wishes. >> Thank you. And I appreciate the dialogue from the neighbors. I hope I I've caught all the questions. If not, I'm uh someone help me. First, I think uh and I apologize. I I intended to end my presentation with this. Um I I want to at least make so the neighbors know. I'm sure you all know cuz you went through a year process to develop the R3. Our property was zoned R3 uh two months ago and unless you really dug into the details, we were R3. That changed in June. Um and that was a citywide reasonzoning. So, um but we're happy with the standards that R3's become and we were the entire city was reszoned to R2. Am I correct, Luke? all the help me out then >> if I may. Luke, can you address this question? >> Sorry, there's a consolidation of some zoning districts. So, the if I uh I hope I don't get this wrong, but the the previous R2 and R3 were very similar in nature. So, they were consolidated into the new R2 zoning district. So the um in this in this uh case the property was uh you know it went from the R3 zoning district but now it's the R2 zoning district. They they didn't when the zoning change went into effect they didn't automatically get upzzoned if you will if that makes sense. >> Yeah. So now we have to come back and ask you to be R3. So that's what we're here to do. But why do that? Why not stick with R2? And if you look at your handout again, the the property or the page with the yellow culde-sac and Luke, if you put up um the plat again up here, if we could. There we go. So, what we liked about the R3 and I think one of the things the city at least in our understanding of the whole process to change the um ordinance, we could do the same type of development, maybe a slightly less intense year than we could do with R2 as far as unit count, but we could achieve the same unit count or or very close to it without the huge um infrastruure. ffstruure impacts and development. So we had been working on this for about 2 and 1/2 years. We did go through a city workshop um where we did get encouragement and approval and support to come forward with this under the R3 zone. What was different and why we settled on the on the reszone is if you take that culde-sac under the R2 zone, we would have pulled it all the way to the east where the pond is and then run lots north and south to get the same kind. And we also would have had lots where lots one and two are, a larger lot that went out the other way. So we actually would have achieved about the same lots but with a lot of infrastructure. We can do this and do a better job and also dedicate the wetland under the R3 zone. So that's that's our motivation. Um I can go back and do this as as said we can go back and fill in the wetlands but that's not our intention today. So let me >> if I could ask one question just a terminology so that everybody can understand what you mean by dedicate the wetlands. >> Okay. Thank you. Yes. So currently um that's accurate. The property has no designation on it whatsoever. Um it's not uh this has little zones that might be protected but we are going to come in create an outlot and dedicate it to the city. So that's one of the first things I want to respond to the neighbors. The way to protect this wetland, the way to preserve any endangered species is to get that permanent designation on it. I don't intend to own this property forever. We had a very specific family that worked for us that we acquired it for with this, but we're we're moving on from this, but the way to preserve it and and I don't tend to send sell to another developer. We'd like to do this, but the way to preserve it is to do this plan and dedicate 4 acres of wetland and have it preserved. >> And and just to make it explicitly clear, when you dedicate that land, that becomes city-owned property, >> right? >> We we as a city and a community now own that land, >> right? I own six acres today and I'm going to give away four of them. And then another gentleman, just to be clear, we aren't taking away wetland. we're actually creating more and we are looking into the land bank, the wetland land bank and so forth. So, Commissioner Campbell is um smarter than we are on it, but we're we're familiar with how to do that. Um, a couple other uh responses. Um, why do this besides the infrastructure? I think it's important to close the 10th Street access. Um, initially we had a twin home coming off of 10th Street under the R2 zone. So again, we wiped that out. Uh, the fire the culde-sac is uh a firet truck approved culde-sac. to answer that question. Um, voices of support. Um, I am I believe there's been some insert information and maybe some folks have signed a petition and I haven't seen that petition. I'd sure like to see it. Um, but I did get calls today in response to our our letter and I got calls before that said, "We do support this now that we understand what you're doing." So there are voices of support and then I want to point back the city council in our workshop voted to have us come forward under the R3 zoning. So there have been voices of support. Can we do um things differently? Yeah, I'm I would love to hear specific things we can do differently. Um I'm a little troubled on the lot to the south, our lot number four, if we can get that back or five if we can get back that up there. We have one lot where Oakrron Shores has four. I'm not sure what else to do, but I'm I'm willing to listen. If you have specific things that you'd like us to do, I apologize. I know I'm not supposed to address the the crowd. Um, but I I will listen to that and we can work on those between a positive recommendation today and the city council meeting on the 26th or we can delay that meeting to work longer um if we have to. So, all ears. I think I've answered all the questions. >> The only other question I might have is as a member of the tree board, I would also ask tree preservation on the on that barrier between five and the on the south side. You got a 15oot section, are you going to preserve whatever trees might be in that or >> Yeah. Um that's that's difficult for so to make clear, we're not planning on taking any trees from our neighbors or anything like that. Um, one of the uses of that outlot though is for city trucks to access their to be owned out. So, I don't think there'll be anything in that 15 ft. But you'll see on our our um if you look at our plat again, we have distance between the 15t and what we show as our building pad to fill in trees there. That 15 feet, Luke, correct me if I'm wrong, is really going to be an access point. >> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? >> So, >> I think that addresses all all we had. Anyone else have any new questions for >> the only other thing that I had heard some comments about was storm water management? And as with all of these projects, everything has to be reviewed and approved through the Ramsey Washington Metro Wershed District. They're going to make sure that, you know, again, in Minnesota, you do a new development, all storm water has to be managed on site, unless you you've got some agreement that maybe supersedes that. Um, so you're not sending anything off to the neighbor's land. It's all maintained, detained, retained on on site. >> That's correct. Yes. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you neighbors for being patient with me and for your comments. And I I'm I'm ears all ears and I have cards. Um if anybody wants to call me and we can work out some >> We invite your private conversations after the after the meeting. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any further comments from anyone on the commission? >> I have some questions. Um, Luke, >> just to just to circumvent any roundrobin explanation, we don't necessarily need to explain our votes. >> No, I'm actually I have a question to ask, Luke. Um, when you have these cases, is a notification sent to your neighbors? How far out from the property? Commissioner. So the state law is that for reasonzonings, other land use decisions like we have before us tonight, the the state requirement is that a public hearing notice be mailed to property owners within 350 ft of the subject site with u 10 days before the meeting. We sent the the hearing notice out a full two weeks out before this this uh tonight's meeting. And um the city's ordinance actually requires a 500 ft notification. So we go above and beyond the state requirements for public hearing notifications. >> Okay. Um thank you. U good to know that. Uh um the other question I have um it sounds to me that maybe you have the notification was sent but maybe the other folks here from the comment looks like they never got notification. Are they within that b that bubble or outside? Maybe it's tough. It's not uh it's hard for you to tell but uh do you have a sense of How many folks within that area got a notice versus those that did not or no? If you give me a moment, I can pull the uh just a rough number of how many folks were notified. So, 46 individual property owners were notified via mailing in the of the public hearing. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else have comments or questions? >> I I have one. Um I think u you mentioned that you'd be willing to work with the community to adjust the plans. I'm just wondering, someone mentioned um being that close to the bank and I'm just curious, was the bank ever brought in other plans or notified? I'd have to defer to the developer if they had uh specific conversations with the bank, >> but they would have received your public notification. >> Yes, I'm looking at the address list and the bank was notified of the public hearing. >> Okay. Yes, we've had conversations with the bank and we've also sent them different design concepts over the last two and a half years. >> Okay. >> Oh, sorry. One other thing that I wanted to address too. There was some concern over, you know, what if the developer changes their mind and wants to do care here? Um, under the current R2 zoning as well as the proposed R3 zoning, um, group care is allowed. I'm just pulling it up here. Residential care facilities for anywhere from 1 to 16 persons is a permitted use in both the R2 and R3 zoning. So, it doesn't matter whether a zoning is approved or not. Um, they could operate a group group living facility uh for up to 16 residents on that property. And commissioner, just to be very clear, this is state law that the city has to allow certain uses. There's preeemption, state preeemption on certain land use. >> Okay, last call. Anyone? >> There was a question about um the street exit on 9inth. And this is for the developer. I think they were asking if the exit will just be a right turn exit or if it will have a left turn. >> It's a two-way street. Yeah. >> So, you can go either way off Ninth. >> Most most people just when you when you go through the drive-thru, >> they they come out kind of the other end. Ninth Street is a two-way road that dead ends. So, you'll be able to go out and there's a stop sign there. You can full access movements. >> I don't think the resident was saying that. >> That's why they have an open. >> Nope. >> That's That's why they're using the ATM and the drive-thru. That's to get out of the drive-thru. That's not to get out of the bank. If you're in the bank parking lot, you can turn around and go right back out the same way you came in. >> Yep. >> Okay. Anyone else? Then I look for a motion to >> open it up for rebuttals. >> No. >> I'm going to motion to recommend approval of the resoning of Ninth Street Landing. >> Second. >> Second. >> We don't typically reopen. I did on the last one. >> That's fine. you did on the last one. So, typically you do. >> That's not typical, but I'll allow this time. >> I'm I'm going to call the vote. >> Well, I'm just >> We have We have a motion on the floor. We have a motion seconded. >> Just a couple questions. I can ask the builder right now in front of you guys. It's simple. >> If it if there are questions for the developer, I would urge you to ask those direct >> directly to the developer. >> With with all due respect, we have a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. >> All those in favor? >> I. Any opposed? >> Nay. >> One opposed. Motion passes. >> Motion to recommend approval of the preliminary plat for 9inth Street Lane. >> So move. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> I am. >> Nay. >> One. Nay. Motion passes. Okay. >> Thank you. Okay. Staff liaison update. Thank you, chair. So, I do expect to have a planning commission meeting on September 4th. We do have an application, one active application on file. So, yeah, we'll uh we'll see you in September. And that's all I have. Thank you. >> Okay. Commissioner update. Anybody have any updates they wish to give? Seeing none, we move to the council liaison update. Could I ask everyone to car carry their conversations out into the hallway, please? >> I'll start. Hopefully, you can hear me. Thank you for your work this evening. >> That's uh good good decisions, good questions. Thank you for your efforts. Appreciate it. Um just a couple of things for you uh that I'll mention um that the council's been up to this past week where the acorn awards were awarded. That's an award that the city does for landscaping um both residential and commercial. >> Excuse me. Please could you carry your conversations out into the hallway so we can finish our meeting. Thank you. >> Thank you. Acorn awards were awarded this week. Um the council went out and visited um the residential one is on is the rebelis on 18th 18th Avenue the street excuse me on the east side and the commercial one went to Forefront Technology Campus. So they're both both very nice and encourage you to visit them. Uh also uh on Tuesday night we had a national night out. Um the Chamber of Commerce uh cooked and provided food and beverages not beverages food uh for the community here at Walton Park. Uh it was a great event. I think it's the first time they've done this on the same national night out. Uh, also I believe there were 32 neighborhood block parties throughout the city, a national night out. So council members, police, fire were able to go out and visit many of those. Um, so that was a good event. Uh, what's what's council been up to? Um, can't read my own handwriting. We're continuing to work on the budget for 20 and the levy for 2026. It's a long process and I'm new to it. So it's a it's like drinking from the fire hose to learn from that about that. But we are working on that for 2026. And then lastly, we are working through a process to fill the vacancy on the council um following uh council member Willen's resignation. So any questions for me? >> Any questions from anyone? >> If not, thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> And I look for a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? I. >> Any opposed? We stand adjourned.