Greetings and welcome to the uh planning commission regular meeting August 6th, 2026. Uh call to order. Uh call of roll. Pearson >> present. Willenbering >> here. >> Campbell >> present. >> Data >> here. >> Wilson is absent. And Chava >> here. And the pledge of allegiance. Please stand. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] >> Approval of the agenda. Does anyone have any comments on the agenda? I look for a motion to approve the agenda as presented. >> Motion to approve. >> Tom and Shai. >> Yep. >> Uh all those in favor. >> Any opposed? Thank you very much. Approval of the minutes. Uh June 4th and July 9th. Does anyone have any changes to the the minutes? I'll ask one more time. Does anyone have any changes to the minutes? Seeing none, I ask for a motion to approve the June 4th and July 9th minutes of the planning commission. >> Motion to approve. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Keeps happening at the same time. >> Tom and Shania again. Uh all those in favor of approval. >> I. >> Any opposed? Seeing none, it's motion. The minutes are approved. Uh now it's time for open forum. If anyone has any comments or issues they wish to raise that are not on the agenda uh please st please stand and uh give me your name and address and state your issue. I'll ask one once again if there is anyone who wishes to make comments or questions on uh something not on the agenda please step forward. [clears throat] Seeing none I close the open forum and return to business. No old business. First order of new business is a public hearing. The Les Schwab Tire Center parcel ID whatever preliminary platin site plan. Luke, if you could have a comment, your report. Yes. Thank you, chair. So, I'll get the uh image here on the screen just a second. So, the location of this site is the southeast quadrant of 34th Street in Marketplace. So, this is north specifically north of 33rd Street. Uh just for reference, it's west of the Mc McDonald's and west of Target. So the purpose here is that Les Schwab is seeking approval to build an automotive service and repair business or tire center. The request includes a preliminary plat to create three lots and a site plan to demonstrate uh compliance with the zoning ordinance. The property itself outlined in blue there. Uh the entirety of it is about 7 and a half acres. It's a vacant site. The zoning of this is Oakdale Marketplace Planned Unit Development or PUD. So, uh, if you recall, there was, um, in response to a recent court order, the city approved an ordinance amendment and resolution to allow the proposed use at this site. Here's a look at the preliminary plat. So, proposed lot one is about 1.2 acres. It would contain the tire store. The other two lots, outlaw A is approximately 1 acre and outlaw B is a little over 5 acres. Those would be reserved for future development. Uh there is a proposed shared access that would serve the Les Schwab Tire Center and that access would straddle both lots one and outlaw A. Uh in terms of platting requirements, subdivision requirements, park dedication is one of those items and uh it has to be satisfied as part of the final plat and development agreement approval process. A credit will be given for park dedication that was collected for the overall plat of Oakdale Marketplace and that was back in 2005. Uh due to this site being adjacent to the county road, Highway 14, which is also called called uh 34th Street, Washington County Public Works, they reviewed this plat and they did not have any comments on it. Here's a look at the site plan. So in terms of building height, setbacks and pvious surface coverage requirements. Those have been met. Uh parking requirements have been met as 32 spaces are required under the code. 41 spaces are being provided for storm water management. The plans show a proposed underground storm water system located east of the building within the parking lot area. Just want to note that the developer will need to obtain approval from the city engineer for site civil construction plans. Uh the developer will also need to work with the valley branch wershed district and city engineer to ensure storm water management provisions are installed accordingly. Pilities uh do not appear to have special screening. Uh there is a method uh that we can allow for alternatives through the code. [snorts] Um in this case they're using similar colors to the building itself. The rooftop utilities have judgments. I do want to uh uh briefly note that the developer did provide updated turning movement um uh an updated exhibit for that and the fire marshall was acceptable to what was provided. So that [snorts] actually has it's a bit of a moot. Maybe they might be able to speak to that as well. But >> okay, that'll be a question we'll ask of him then. Any other questions from anyone else? [clears throat] >> Didn't we just go over ATLAP B a few meetings ago? Didn't we approve something on that? >> Uh my name is Bruce Carlson. I'm president of development for All Day Retail and Launch Properties. And uh that flag lot that you see there that juts up >> access And I know people use those streets to go into Target and other the bank, McDonald's, and whatnot. So if it's private access, what exactly does that mean? >> Me. Sorry. >> Then I guess I look for a motion to recommend approval of the preliminary plat plat for the Oakdale Marketplace 7th edition. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? I. >> Any opposed? [clears throat] >> Secondly, a motion to recommend approval of the site plan for Less Schwab. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> I Any opposed? >> Okay, Mr. Chair. >> Motion passes. Thank you very much. >> Did we get a motion for that second one, though? >> I think we went right to a vote. >> No, I said I I said I look for a mo Oh, you're right. I didn't ask get somebody. >> We didn't get a second. Yeah. >> So, I'll I'll get a first. Get a first or a second. So, >> so moved. Okay. >> Second. >> And also ask for a revote. Anybody All those in favor of the motion, please say I. >> I. I. >> Any opposed? None. Seeing none, motion passes. Thank you very much for the correction. >> And Mr. Chair, before we move on to the next item, I'm going to recuse myself from that item. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. Next issue is a public hearing on the Mr. Car Wash 70991 Street North plan unit development amendment and conditional use permit. Luke, your report, please. >> Yes. Thank you, chair. So, the location of this site 7099 11th Street North. So the former Hardy site right by HY. The purpose here is to uh or the request is to enable development of a car wash. The request is a two-parter. So it has u a planned unit development amendment or essentially a change to the zoning and a conditional use permit to allow the car wash. The zoning here is Tartan Crossing planned unit development or PUD. The PUD expressly prohibits car washes and motor fuel station car washes. So this PUD amendment is a standalone request to allow again a car wash at the subject property through the conditional use permit process. So the stated purpose and intent of the Tartan Crossing POD is to and I quote provide for a compact walkable mixeduse development along a key corridor and gateway. To ensure this, the Pix with the mixeduse pedestrian supported neighborhood. I do want to acknowledge that the Tartan crossing area contains some businesses with auto auto oriented features, but these e accessory features support the principal uses on site that serve both pedestrians and automobiles. So essentially, they're ancillary to the principal use. Whereas a car wash here provides services exclusively to automobile users. for the conditional use permit. Again, because the subject property is located within the Tartan Crossing PUB, car washes are prohibited there and as such, the use is not permitted and the conditional use permit should be denied. So, to conclude here, staff recommends denial of both the planned unit development amendment and conditional use permit based on the findings stated in the staff report. So, I'm uh referencing page 43. So this is a resolution of denial for the Tartan Crossing PUD. So three findings here. The first one is that the proposed car wash conflicts with the stated purpose and intent of the Tan Crossing PUD, which is to provide for a compact, walkable, mixeduse development along a key corridor and gateway. Number two is that the proposed use also conflicts with the pedestrianfriendly environment envisioned for the Tartan Crossing PUD. And number three, the subject property is adjacent to residential land use. And specifically what I'm talking about there is the the new perspectives senior living facility there um formerly known as the waters. [snorts] Um and just to continue with that number three the the finding the proposed car wash is anticipated to generate negative externalities and nuisance conditions. Moving on to the other resolution on page 44. So this is a resolution denying a conditional use permit for the car wash. Two findings here. So the first one again is that the car washes and motor fuel car washes are prohibited in the Tartan Crossing PUD. And uh just to reiterate then the second item there is that the proposed car wash conflicts with the stated purpose and intent of the Tartan Crossing PUD. So I do want to acknowledge that there were six emails received. All six emails were forwarded to the planning commission prior to this meeting for review and consideration. So there was five emails in support and one additional comment received. um just this evening about or it stated no objections. So, as a reminder, this is a public hearing. The applicant is here in attendance. I believe they uh have a presentation. I have that loaded up here on the screen if the commission is okay with the applicant providing that presentation. >> Hand materials to the >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> Whoops. I'll get that switched over. Thank you to the chair and members of the commission. Good evening. My name is Ed Capables. I am an associate development manager with Mr. Carw Wash. The materials I put in front of you is one of them is just a copy of the the slide presentation if you want to follow along. And then the second second aspect of it is the um letter in regards to the conditional use permit application. Um generally speaking fairly similar to what was submitted within the packet but um I do address the um criteria in there for conditional use permit um approval. But this evening, we are requesting a limited amendment to the Tartan Crossing PUD to allow a car wash as a conditional use rather than a prohibitive use. Concurrently, we are requesting a recommendation of approval for the conditional use permit associated with the proposed car wash and drive-thru. Go to the next slide. First, a little bit about us. Mr. Car Wash is the largest national owner and operator of car washes in the United States with over 550 locations across 21 states. and we wash roughly 100 million vehicles a year. As an owner operator, Mr. Car Wash will be the same um operator of the car wash 10 years from now and from the beginning of development. Today, we have 34 locations in Minnesota with one under construction and two in development. We are looking forward to serving the OTO community and expanding our network in Minnesota. Here is the site 79911 street north, 1.2 two acres the vacant former Hardies Pad within Tartan Crossing. Hi Ve is to the east. Cub Foods is further south. Um as long as well as the Hi gas station and a Starbucks to the west of the site is an office and commercial use. And then further west is the holiday pad. Can you go to the next slide please? This is the site plan and although a full site plan review will come at a future meeting. This is the proposal. a 130 foot tunnel about 4,900 square feet of building with vacuum stalls wrapping the parking area. Everything happens on site. Cars will enter from the north and the south and then exit to the north. Um the cars will enter, go through the queuing area or the the POS canopy and head through the tunnel. Following the wash, they'll go to the vacuums or exit the site. No queuing is anticipated to extend over the shared drive aisles and none of it is expected to reach the street. Let's get to the next slide, please. So, here's exactly the request for Here's exactly the request for the PUB application. Today, the Titan Crossing Pud explicitly lists car washes as a prohibited use. We're asking you to amend the language and add a car wash as a conditional use. I want to be very clear about what this does and does not do. It does not permit a car wash by right. Every car wash, including ours, still requires the evaluated the elevated review associated with a conditional use permit. All this amendment does is move the use from prohibited to reviewable. Next slide, please. In support of our PUD amendment, our first point is that this is a comparable and compatible use with the existing neighborhood. Auto oriented uses are already there. The PUD permits motor fuel sales and kiosk sales and currently has approved eight drive-through lanes. This pattern also fits citywide policy. Under the city code, a car wash is a conditional use in the B1 commercial district. B1 was the previous zoning on this property. If you imagine yourself driving down 10th Street and look to the left of the Cub Foods development and right to the Hi Ve development, these sites are identical. large parking lots, drive-thru, an autocentric commercial district. More specifically, this pad was built itself for vehicles. It was a drive-through restaurant serving in-n-out traffic. We propose the same trip logic. Next slide, please. Second, this is consistent with how the PUB has evolved as market conditions have changed. Tartan Crossing was established for compact mixeduse development with flexibility for changing conditions and the city has used that flexibility even from its inception permitting drive-thru quicks serve restaurants minimum setback requirements and large parking lots erode the original intent of the PUD. Additionally, this PUD has been amended multiple times. In 2014, the PUD was amended to permit motor fuel sales, which became the H High Fuel Center. That same year, a coffee shop drive-through was approved within the fuel center. In 2016, a site [snorts] plan and a conditional use permit were approved for a drive-through restaurant on our site, the Hardy site. In 2022, the PD was amended again to allow the HY grocery pickup kiosk and to increase the drive-thru cap from 5 to 8. Every one of these approvals moved this district to an autooriented drive-through support pattern rather than a compact integrated and walkable mixeduse development envisioned in the original PUD. This request is consistent with those previous policies. Next slide, please. The PUD requires 70% class one at serial materials. Although this will be further evaluated during the site review plan process, we are currently proposing 70% on the east, 71 on the west, 74 on the north, and 82 on the south. Every elevation meets or exceeds these requirements using three brick varieties. [clears throat] On landscaping, 47 lot trees are required and we are providing 47. 14 existing trees will remain or are being retained. All [clears throat] of our trees are required and six are being provided and 16 shade trees are in the parking areas. Beyond that, we have an elevated landscaping design with BMS, dry riverbed features, fieldstone boulders, native plantings, and screen trash and vacuum enclosures. Next slide, please. Fourth, the public interest. This returns 1.2 acres of underused land to a productive use. is entirely private investment with zero public subsidy. It expands the tax base and supports adjacent commercial uses and it adds a convenient service for residents within a commercial node that has already seen about a million visits a year. Next slide, please. The second request associated with the proposal in front of you is approval of the conditional use permit. On screen are the seven criteria for conditional use in city code. We meet all seven with a full list of findings provided to you. I'd be the I'd be happy to discuss them all in detail, but I think it's important to highlight two of them. First one is number two, compatibility with the district character. Tartan Crossing today is not the district that was drawn on paper. Through previous amendments and approvals, it now contains multiple drive-throughs, a fuel station, and kiosk sales. These were deliberate policy decisions made as the market changed and each of the decisions moved the PewDie away from a compact walkable development to an autooriented regional shopping center. Another one I'd like to point out is number six, excessive public cost. There is none. This is privately funded. No public subsidy. It reactivates a vacant pad and grows the tax base. Within the staff report, staff raised a concern about water, and it is a fair question. For starters, nearly all the water that is utilized within the car wash process runs through our reclamation system, which removes heavy sediment and breaks down bacteria. For each wash, roughly half the water going onto the vehicle has already been recycled from the system. Water that is not used for the wash is then returned to the city system. Next slide, please. The code also sets out two specific standards for car washes. We exceed both. The first is headlight screening. The code requires 3 feet in height. We're providing a 6ft wall at the west end of the site, 18 to 24 inch BMS and dense plantings on on the site to meet the 3-foot requirement. Secondly is residential separation. The code says that the facility shall not be located within 50 ft of a residentially zone property. We meet this requirement from property line to property line. Our proposal is roughly 60 feet from a residential use and 225 ft from use to use. Next slide, please. Finally, these are some renderings that I want you to see what the proposal actually looks like. Next slide, please. This is the bird's eye view, the site from above. You can see the landscape buffering wrapping around the parking and how the building sits back from the corner. Next slide, please. This is a rendering from the street perspective. um brick, a woodlike look and an articulated roof line. And you can see the vacuum canopies as well. Next slide, please. And then this is the the tunnel exit and the vacuums are there as well. Final slide, please. To close this pad was built for this type of use. It was a drive-through restaurant, autooriented in and out, car stacking on site. That's a pattern this follows, and it's been sitting underutilized since it closed. Look at what surrounds it. A H high V fuel station immediately south or sorry yeah H high V fuel station immediately south a Holiday fuel station to the west B1 zoning on the parcels next door and across Tent Street and at 1.2 2 acres. This pad is just large enough to do everything properly. The queuing stays on site. There's room for a screen wall, burm, and dense plantings. There are two actions in front of you tonight, and we're asking to recommend approval of both. First, the PD amendment to incorporate a car wash as a conditional use, and secondly, approving the conditional use permit for the Mr. Car Wash project. Thank you. Happy to answer any questions the commission may have. >> Thank you. Any questions from the commissions? [clears throat] I have a question, couple questions actually. Um, >> what will the hours be of this car wash? >> Yeah, >> considering the proximity to the senior home. >> Yeah, generally speaking, our uh operating hours are 7 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Um, granted, we'll meet all in any city code in regards to hours of operation. >> Curious, you've got vacuum cleaners outside the facility. How loud are those 50 feet from the facility? Yeah, good question. Um, truthfully, uh, it's hard to say exactly from 50 feet how loud they would be, but I would say maybe a faint noise if you'd hear anything. Um, during the site plan review process, you we'll we'll propose a a uh sound study in regards to that sort of question, which we can better articulate what exactly that noise would be. It's hard to say off the top of my head. >> Not looking at the diagrams for but on which side of the building will you have the vacuums on both or just on >> Yeah. So on the site plan it's to the north of the building and then west along the uh the back of the property line. >> Truthfully, the the vacuum isn't that loud of a uh of a noise producer. Generally speaking, it comes from the tunnel. Um and we use silencers and whatnot and um top-of-the-line technology to make sure that we reduce our sound impact. >> Well, that was one of my questions. What what do you have as current noise abatement adjustments on the system? >> Yeah, I mean generally speaking, sound walls are a good way to go about it. Um but we [clears throat] use silencers and you know there's certain ways that we can um manipulate it to reduce impacts on neighboring properties. Once again, the, you know, the sound study would be brought forward during the site plan review process where we can really hammer out that what that looks like and quell any concerns that there may be. >> As far as the uh queuing and traffic around there, I've been to lots of car washes and on peak times there's plenty of them where I see people stacked up outside on the main streets. Granted, those are basically full service car washes. How do you differ from them on peak times? Are you going to have backups into that street? Because there's not a whole lot of room around there to have a backup in that street. >> Yeah. No, truthfully, we don't have any concern in regards to backing up on the street. Um, when you think of like a uh a car wash associated with a gas station or something, that's usually one vehicle within the car wash at a time. Ours uses a conveyor belt to send them down the tunnel. Um, so we're moving through vehicles rather quickly and we're not waiting, you know, four or five minutes for each person to wash their cars. You know, there may be four or five cars within the tunnel at any given point. So to to answer your question, there isn't necessarily a uh there's no concern on our end in regards to backing up onto the streets um or you know the neighboring property to the south. >> And how many spots will your facility have for queuing approximately? We have to pull the site plan, but I mean I think the queuing shows 20ish, but I mean we're not utilizing the entire site plan. You could in theory, you know, run it all the way to the um to the edge of the property and have substantial stacking within there. >> I'm Ashley Aster. I also work with Mr. Car West and just wanted to further elaborate a few of your questions with just some answers. Um so you talked about noise. A couple things to note on our tunnel exit. The the blowers that we have, we do have silencers on those and the it doesn't stay open. The door closes after each vehicle exits. Um from car going into the tunnel, it's about a 3 to five minute um experience from when they go through the POS canopy and then go through the tunnel. So there's there's cars that queue throughout there. Um and then additionally, our vacuum producer is more of the noise generator versus the vacuum itself. And that's enclosed in an 8ft masonry wall. So that's already having an additional sound um mitigation system in place. So the vacuums in and of itself aren't the big noise generator. It's really the producer and that's that's enclosed in the sound uh sound reducing wall. Um and then additionally um the there's also a muffler around that. So in addition to the sound wall, there's the muffler that helps reduce noise. Um, but as Ed mentioned, we we do order sound studies um with especially with this residential adjacency. Um, and so we'll we'll go, you know, above and beyond of what we need to, but trying to meet city code as far as what noise is leaving the premises. So once we go through the site plan process, if this gets approved, we'll make sure we're complying with city code regulations. Yeah, >> adjacent to his last question was the 2016 drive-through restaurant. Can you in terms of those exiting entrance and exiting on the street? Uh what kind of traffic difference would there be from that application? >> Yeah, I can I can attempt to answer that. Um >> frequency of car moving is >> Yeah, >> I guess is what I'm asking. I would say well obviously with the the Hardy site no longer being in operation um it perhaps did not experience the level of traffic generally associated with you know a standard drive-through restaurant. Um we have completed the traffic study which was submitted to to the city um which showed our traffic volumes lower than a standard traffic or a standard drive-through restaurant. Granted, you know, what might be seen on site would perhaps be a little bit higher just because of the, you know, the business is obviously no longer in place. Um, so traffic volumes may have been lower compared to, um, you know, a car wash that would be fully operational. Um, but I think generally speaking, you know, perhaps a little less than a standard drive-through restaurant, which is operating, you know, at 100% efficiency. >> You have a question. Sure. Just to add to that as well, um our our traffic flow is pretty consistent throughout our operating day. Um so you're not seeing extreme peaks as you would for restaurant use where it's, you know, the the afternoon peak or the evening peak. It's pretty consistent. You know, there may be a higher spikes, you know, right around when people are getting off of work. Um but because of the, you know, how we do well with adjacent commercial uses, it's it's more of um it's not necess necessarily a destination use. It's more of a convenience use. So, it's really the compatibility with the surrounding commercial uses. Um, so somebody may be going to the HY and then coming over to get their car washed. So, you you see kind of it ebbing and flowing as far as um, you know, our traffic. >> What's going to be the typical experience for one of our seniors sitting out front of their building across the street from this place on a Saturday afternoon? what what are they gonna experience from what they're not experiencing now? >> Yeah, good question. Well, obviously the the hardest site isn't isn't being utilized. Um, you know, and it's not necessarily being maintained. Um, what they would experience would be an elevated design in regards to the building itself. Um, and you know, it would be a viable business in regards to, you know, people coming through and getting their car washed and that sitting. Um, I don't think there would be negative impacts on the adjacent residential use, but I think it would be an uptick in in uh activity from what they're used to for the past can't remember exactly when the hardies closed down, but months. Yeah. >> Go ahead. Um, I was just going to add to that really quick. We did actually meet with the seniors um, in at the residential community and told them about our project. We showed them our renderings. We sat down. We asked about their concerns um, and any, you know, just were there to more kind of an openhouse type of setting. And, you know, while some of them and most of them may not end up being our customers since they don't operate vehicles, um, the one thing they noted was that they like to walk around that area. they have a bench and you know it could be something we incorporate into our site plan design um a bench feature or something of that nature but they there were no major concerns they generally liked how the building looked so I think if anything it's a it's a nicer material um you know pallet that they're looking at with the landscaping they I think that's an added um amenity to what's existing and out there um but I know it's a car wash so there's it's hard to really give them exactly what they want but we we we want to give the Middle East something nice to look at and um you know with the sound study that we're going to be doing trying to make sure that we're you know being respectful to our neighbors. So that was the biggest reason we we wanted to meet with them and be proactive to do that and we also met with other um business owners as part of our community outreach. So we met with all the adjacent um property owners as well. So trying to be proactive in this process and gain feedback so we can you know have the best design moving forward on this. >> Yeah. Um [clears throat] I understand you submitted a traffic study right? Yes. >> While traffic studies can give sort of an idea sometime they could go one way or the other. What if the business become so successful that we have many cars do you have any mitigation mitigating plans cuz I've seen situation in St. For example, where we had um approve buggers on Snelling and Marshall where they did a study was perfect but the business business became so successful that cars been queuing in the street and create a big mess and finally they ended up closing the the drive lanes like people not just walking. Do you have a plan just in case it become the traffic study become sort of uh I mean the business become so successful uh that in a way that was not anticipated? >> Yeah. No, thank you for the question. I would say that um you know we work with the city and how best to mitigate you know any traffic concerns coming from the neighbors or you know a resident in the city of Oakdale. I think it's you know truthfully a you have to react to it as it comes. Um there'sn't necessarily a a plan in place in that regard, but um you know we're willing to work through any any issues that come up and you know this is a corporately owned site so we want to put our best foot forward and we want to be good neighbors. Um, so we will work closely with the city to see how best to remedy, you know, that concern if it may come up. >> Thank you. >> Uh, not that this is actually all that important in in reality, but compared to your Maplewood location, they offer detailing too, I think. And you this site does it will not. >> Correct. Yeah. No, this is just an express car wash. So, um, you'll be able to, you know, vacuums are open to the public to come in and and, uh, vacuum out their car and clean out their car. Um, but correct, there would be no interior detailing taking place from our employees. >> Okay. >> And the >> any other question? >> I just want to add a couple more question or couple more notes to um, Yaya's question. So, um, we do have the capability to speed up our our tunnel, um, on the conveyor if if things are starting to get more, you know, if it's getting busy. Um, additionally, you asked about stacking. I think at max we can it's about 30 cars can be in the queue. Um, but we average see about 20 at a really busy time. And then additionally, we have what we call our unlimited wash club. So that's where you can be a member and you can go use any facility across not just Minnesota but the entire nation. Um and so typically if you go to the site and you say, "Oh, it's busy." You might just say, "I'm just going to come back tomorrow." And so we think that that wash club actually helps um with our traffic flow because you know, nobody really wants to wait in a long line. So they may just come back a different day or a different time. So, I think those other things kind of help alleviate the traffic concerns. Um, and just more of the queuing on site, but we're we're happy to answer any additional questions you guys have. Um, but just wanted to add that to to your notes. >> I'm just curious. Um, I'm sure you did sort of study to see how many car washes you have >> in Oakdale or in the area. Do you have an idea? >> It's how many how many car washes >> like um competition or are car washes? >> No, no. any other car wash in that area in the in the immediate area. Are there any? Do you know? >> I I can answer that. Um >> so I would say that that Mr. Car Wash is a little bit unique compared to the um car washes that you might experience at a gas station. Um so I think there are probably off the top of my head four gas station related car washes in the city of Oakdale. Um but there isn't any um you know standalone operator. Correct. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> Is this question is this a fully automated selfservice type of car wash? Yeah. No, good question. >> Do you need to talk to an employee or we're fully staffed with employees on site? I think generally speaking, four or five employees roughly on site at a given time. Um and they're there and greeting you in as you come through the point of service canopy and and actually in there um as you work your way through the tunnel at the at the entrance. Um, so yes, to answer your question, we do have employees working there when the car wash is operational. >> Any other questions before I open the public for hearing? >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> This is a public hearing, so any anyone who wishes to make comments on this issue, please step forward. Name and address, please. >> My n my name is uh Richard Tim. I own the all family dental professional building just west of this location. Uh that address is 1075 Hadley. Um I will tell you that I did some homework and I went and visited some Mr. Car Washes. They are really beautiful places to be perfectly honest with you. They're they're wellkept. They're seem to be wellrun. The landscaping is nice. Having said that, uh, and they have been easy to work with. They've come, you know, engaged us in conversation. But having said that, I have some serious reservations about the car wash from a noise, a water, and maybe that's not as big of an issue given that the retention pond is there, but traffic going in and out of there, I have a lot of concerns. So, first of all, uh I've lived uh through the building of the the rain pond that they have there, and that was a lot of noise, and it's really a very nice development, but it was months and months and months of noise. Now, what we have is we have this beautiful thing we get to look out at every day out of my dental office. And all the tenants in my in my professional building, they can go out and look at that, too. So that was a one-time noise. It was a long time it took to build that, but it's a one time no time noise. When I went out to the Mr. Car wash in Maplewood and Stillwater, it was out go out there to see what is the noise of this uh car wash really like. And I will tell you that the vacuums will be running for 12 hours a day, every day, 7 days a week. And there's a lot of noise with the vacuum cleaners. The main pump, even though they're in buildings, not within the building. One of them on this site plan is designed to be inside the car wash, which I I would I would approve of that, but the other one is going to be on the northwest corner, which is about 50 ft from my tenants. Now we are professional office building and these these tenants have been used to having the quiet enjoyment of their businesses to be able to make phone calls to be able to have conversations whether they're inside or outside. Having said that, I don't know that this is going to be such an issue, but it's my concern. And I've been I've been driving in and out of the the uh H high and the H high gas Gas for quite some time. The way that road is curved there, I see that as being a traffic problem that in the development of that that has to be dealt with. somebody will have either a serious accident because people are going to be coming around from that blind curve a little bit and somebody's going to have an accident and hopefully it's just a car on car and not [snorts] a car on [clears throat] person. So those are probably my my main considerations. Now what we can't find out yet and perhaps in this permitting pro process it would be able to be found that found out but Mr. Carw Wash doesn't know exactly how the lay how the layout can be. You know I'm facing the west side of Mr. Car Wash which is where all all the drying will happen and that's the noisy end. silencers or no silencers on the Maplewood and Stillwater office. That was noisy. The vacuum cleaners, although when they're engaged, they're not as noisy as you think when they put on your hand, but when they're sitting in some of the in some of the mounts, they run and there's a lot of noise. It was less so at the Stillwater location and more so at the Mapwood one. Now, all these things I think I could live with if they could be abated, but we won't know if they're going to be abated until they they build on the site. Having said that, this development was set up and I believe that it was it was set up with with a good idea and I don't necessarily think that this is the best use of that site. I know Hardies has not been successful there and perhaps this would take maybe 10 more years for another restaurant to fit that pad and be successful. Issues with whether we do this today or do this in 10 years, Mr. Car Wash will have moved on if they don't get a cup. Having said that, I'm not sure I would be in favor of giving him a cup until we know that all all these issues about traffic abatement and sound abatement would be appropriate, you know, and I talked with Ed today. He and I met and if they could flip that around, I think it would help the noise a lot, but I'm still not sure it would be the kind of use that was originally intended. That's all I really got unless you have questions from a property owner. I've owned that property since 1998. That professional office building has been there. >> Thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions for him? Thank you again. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else have comment to make? Please state your name and address. [clears throat] >> Hi, I'm Dean Wangren, uh 6550th Street Circle in Oakdale. So, I'm about a quarter mile from the uh proposed location there or the H high. And I just wanted to say I think it'd be really handy to have a nice car wash there because right now the really the only good choices are up past Menard's there's a nice one, a gas station one or else over on um the other side of the freeway. And what I notic is that they both get really backed up, especially in the spring. So, it'd be nice to have one of these fancier um treadmill based ones that gets you through quickly. we get our gas at high. So it' be just really convenient. So not a profound insight, but just wanted to share that I think it'd be great if we had it. >> Thank you very much. >> Anyone else wish to come forward and make comment on this issue? >> Seeing none, I bring it back to the I close the public hearing and uh bring it back. Anyone's had any comments? >> Okay, I'd like to make a comment. I reviewed the original PUD today and the current area is a far cry from what the original PUD was going to look like. I don't know if a car wash is the right thing to put in there or not, but I do think it should be sent on up the chain to the city council to actually open this up for more discussion because just because of the changes in the way that area is changed, car wash may or may not work there, but I think it should be explored further. So, uh, I'm going to vote. I don't know how to vote on vote no on denying the application of the city council so it can go up and they can review it. >> Okay. Anyone else have wish to make comment? >> I think it's a great idea. Um but like some other members have said, there's some other further studies I think that would be really helpful. Um that would help us in making this decision at this time. Um such as the the transportation, the the the car movement and whatnot and what it could look like in the spring. I'm thinking more of the winter cuz that's when I wash my car the most. And when you go to a car wash in the winter, that's when you have the long lines because everybody wants to get that salt off the cars. So, I think of the winter and what it look like in that curved uh on that curved street. Um I think a further study would would help me with my decision at this point. So, yeah, that's that's kind of what I wanted to say. >> Yaya, do you have comments? Yes. I uh [clears throat] I'm not a fan of empty sight buildings. I think they need some life. We have um this only car wash within the area that they're proposing. I think there'll be good um a good benefit for the community, especially in that area. So um the site needs some life and I think this is an opportunity to create jobs um and sort of u help with tax base. I think we should sort of um encourage businesses to be coming in town because I know change is not the easiest thing to embrace >> but when you don't embrace it you don't know. So, um I'm going to vote against staff recommendation. >> Okay. Well, since you have all voiced your opinions, I'll add mine. I guess I'm somewhat along the same lines as Tom. I asked the specific questions about the traffic differences from a drive-thru that was allowed in 2016 and the current plans for noise abatement. Since you're having a further study on it, those are my only two objections possible to it. As far as I was concerned, I don't see us this interfering with the sidewalk. So, I like Tom and probably Yaya will be voting not to pass the motions as stated. I don't know where that leaves it. That's up to Luke to make a statement after the vote, I'm assuming. But any further comments from anyone? Okay. Uh, if I can find the correct page. Okay. Motion to recommend denial of the planned unit development amendment for a car wash at 7099 11th Street North. It has to get moved so we can vote it down to v vote down even. >> So moved. >> Seconding. >> Second. >> Okay. Second. All those in favor of the motion say I. >> All those opposed? >> Nay. >> Nay. Uh for completeness, we'll go on to the next motion. Motion to recommend denial [clears throat] of the conditional use permit for a car wash at 709911 Street North. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. All those in favor of the motion say I. >> All those opposed say nay. >> Nay. >> Nay. >> Mo. Both motions fail. Uh yeah. Do you want to make comment as to where this goes now? So maybe just for clarification, would the commission want to then change the recommendation, recommend approval, send send the to to be able to forward uh to the city council? >> Yes, >> I think such would be in order that if that's the way we can proceed. >> I think it would just make it clear. >> Okay. >> So >> then I will uh rephrase it. First motion is a motion to recommend the planned unit development amendment for a car wash at 7099 11th Street North. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I >> I. Any opposed? Motion. Motion to recommend the conditional use permit for a car wash at 7099 111th Street North. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> Any oppose? Motion pass. Both motions pass. >> Thank you. So yeah, in terms of just for the benefit of the audience, where where does this go next? So this is the planning commission is a recommending body. So the recommendation will get forwarded to the city council and the city council will act on this request likely. I think it's August 25th is the the next meeting when that would occur. So thank you. >> Thank you very much, Luke. >> I should probably have said that myself earlier, but okay. Uh public hearing on the Josiah Center at 533 Hayward Avenue North, unit 100 conditional use permit. Look forward to your report. >> Thank you, commissioners. So, this is a uh conditional use permit application for the uh property located at 533 Hayward Avenue North, unit 100, which is just under a/4 mile north of 4th Street and east of Interstate 694. The property is around 1.4 acres and contains two light industrial buildings. The cup application is for the suite on the uh west side of the more southern of the two buildings which was recently configured as office spaces. So where my pointer is on the screen there. The applicant the Josiah Center is seeking to establish a place of worship specifically a church. The property is zoned B3 light industrial and per the city code places of worship are allowed in all zoning districts via conditional use permit. Here's a closer look at the subject property outlined in red there on the screen. So, the western suite in the building where Josiah Center wants to establish a place of worship is approximately 5,500 square ft. I'll show the concept floor plans on the interior in the coming slides. The applicant indicated that there are no plans for exterior additions or expansions on the site. For parking requirements, which is based on the size of the assembly hall and office space, the applicant would be required to provide 25 parking spaces by code. The property contains 41 existing parking spaces that are in a shared lot with the neighboring tenant. Therefore, parking requirements are met. The applicant also noted in their application that they have executed a signed shared parking agreement with the adjacent property owner. In regard to traffic, the applicant stated that the worship services occur primarily on Friday evenings and Sunday outside of the peak operating hours for the surrounding businesses. The average attendance of 50 people noted by the applicant should not generate excessive traffic in the area. To ensure adequate vehicle circulation can occur on the site, including uh large public safety vehicles, staff is recommending as a condition of approval that the applicant install no parking signage along the east drive aisle and along the north side of the building. Uh quickly, here are some photos of the exterior of the property from this year. And here are some photos of the east drive aisle, which is on the left side of the screen, and the drive aisle to the north of the building, which is the right picture here, where staff are recommending the no parking signs be installed. And here's the preliminary floor plan for the church that was submitted by the applicant. The interior of the building again is approximately 5,500 square f feet and it includes a uh main assembly hall here in the center as well as administrative offices, classrooms, gathering areas, a nursery and a prayer room. Uh the main assembly hall itself can accommodate up to 98 people. And here's a look at the existing partitions and rooms with the uh red dashed lines, if you can see them here, noted as features for demolition as the applicant completes their interior renovation. Uh, as a reminder, conditional use permits are subject to certain review criteria found in the city's ordinances. And here is a summary of the review criteria. uh compliance with the comprehensive plan, compatibility of use with the zoning district, no nuisance effects generated, no traffic congestion or parking issues. Use must be adequately served by public services, no excessive costs incurred for public services or infrastructure and minimal impacts to environment or natural features. Staff finds that the conditional use permit review criteria of the ordinance has been satisfied as detailed in the staff report on file. Not sure what's happened there. Uh staff recommends approval of the request subject to the uh following condition which uh commissioners you can find in the resolution on page 55 of the agenda packet and that reads no parking signage shall be installed along the east drive aisle and along the north side of the building. Uh, with that, as a reminder, this is a public hearing and the applicant is here with us in attendance. With that, I'd be happy to answer any questions that the commission has. >> Thank you. One question I have is Josiah Center is already in occupying this facility. Correct. >> Yes, that is correct. >> There's no real change in dimensions of occupancy even. >> Okay. Just wanted to clarify that. >> Yep. Thank you. Okay. >> Any questions from the commission? Just one. Sorry. So to your point, so they're they're occupying operating today just kind of out of compliance. So this is just bringing them into compliance with our >> not as not as a center of worship as my >> Yes. Okay. >> So uh would the applicant wish to come forward to make any comments first? not required. I just offered you the opportunity. >> I hope I don't know. You got anything? We don't. We Yeah. >> Well, I guess just to answer, I'm not sure. We've been meeting offsite, so we are not currently utilizing the space as a place of worship. We've moved our possessions in and are waiting for approval before we can demo it. So, it'll be a couple months till we actually are able to use the facility. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Since this is a public hearing, uh if there is anyone in the audience who wishes to come forward to make comment on this application, please do now. >> See none, I'll offer it once yet once again. If there's anyone in attendance who wishes to come forward to make comment on this issue, please come forward. Seeing none, I close the public hearing, bring it back to the commission. Any further comments? Okay, let me find the motion page. >> 55 >> 55. >> The motion is to recommend approval of the conditional use permit to establish a place of worship, a church at 533 Hayward Avenue North, unit 100. >> So moved. >> Second. Any uh I'm sorry. All those in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you very much. >> Moving on. The next is the staff liaison update. >> Well, >> aren't we going through the uh >> one more true sign? >> No, we're going through the trueine sign. >> Okay. get back to finding where that is in here. >> Uh, page 56. >> Okay, Max is you're you're the new Max, eh? >> I I am. I will state for the record, my name is Connor. >> You're Connor? Yes. [snorts] >> All right. >> Please. >> Uh, yes. So, this is a conditional use permit application for the property located at 1267 Geneva Avenue North. This is about a/4 mile north of 10th Street. The applicant MC's Pub is seeking to add a new electronic message sign component to the existing Pylon sign, which is currently located in the northwest corner of the property along Geneva Avenue. The proposed electronic uh message sign is 24 square ft in size. Uh recently in 2010, a conditional use permit was approved for an 11 square foot electronic sign at the site. However, that sign was removed several years ago. Given that the proposed sign here is bigger than the 11 square foot sign that has been removed and was originally allowed by the uh original conditional use permit, a conditional use permit amendment is required. The property is zoned B1 commercial where electronic message signs are permitted as a conditional use. It's worth noting uh here that there are nearby residential properties. The sign is located a little more than 500 ft from the town homes to the east uh which you can see on the picture here. And because of the proximity to residential property, the electronic sign is subject to special standards. Here is a side-by-side comparison of the existing sign and the proposed electronic message sign. So on the left is the existing pylon sign. Uh they plan to retain the upper MC's pub identification cabinet in the existing pole while removing the readerboard cabinet on the bottom of the pole here. And then on the right is the proposed electronic message sign which consists of a 6x4 foot double-sided electronic display just below the existing MC's pub sign. And here's a mockup of what the proposed sign would look like at night with the dimensions of the existing sign that will be retained. the existing pole in the proposed electronic sign. Conditional use uh permits are subject to certain review criteria found in the city's ordinances which I just went over in the agenda item before this. Uh in addition, there are specific criteria that must be met in order to grant a conditional use permit for an electronic message sign. The lamp wattage and luminance level shall be provided at time of permit application. Public service messages and other messages like Amber Alerts must be provided at no cost to the public. Is not allowed as a temporary sign and must be permanent. Must have a minimum display duration of 30 seconds. Must be rectangular in shape and contain messages within it. Must contain static messages only. Must be freestanding signage. It must have ambient light monitors that automatically adjust the brightness level at all times based on light conditions. It cannot exceed 2500 nits which is a brightness metric between civil sunrise and sunset and cannot exceed 500 nits between civil sunset and civil sunrise. Must also have an auto shut off function if sign display deteriorates by 10% or more. And additionally, because there is adjacent residential property, the sign must be shut off between 1000 p.m. and 6:00 a.m. or have a maximum of 250 nets from sunset to sunrise. Staff finds that the conditional use permit review criteria of the ordinance has been satisfied as detailed in the staff report on file. Staff recommends approval of the request subject to the following conditions which can be found in the resolution on page 73 of the agenda packet. Those read that the sign shall be installed on the existing pylon sign or replacement pylon sign if the existing sign is removed. The sign shall have a minimum display duration of 30 seconds. The sign shall display static messages only. The sign shall not exceed 24 square ft in size. The sign shall not exceed 2,500 nits between the hours of civil sunrise and civil sunset. The sign shall not exceed 500 nits from civil sunset to civil sunrise. The sign shall have a fully functional off switch that automatically shuts the display sign off when the display deteriorates 10% or greater. and the applicant shall obtain a signed permit and an electric permit. With that, uh, commission, I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have. >> Okay, thank you very much. Anyone have any questions? >> I have a couple questions. One question and some clarifications. Will this property then by the granting of if we grant this cop or recommend granting it only be allowed to have one electronic message board sign on the property or can other tenants come forward and request their own electronic message board? >> Um I don't actually know the answer to that question. Would you mind taking this one? >> So the property owner would have to be a little crafty. They might have to resubdivide the lot to to be able to have multiple electronic signs, but uh at this time only one sign, electronic dynamic sign. So, >> okay, that's what I figured. And then I'm confused in the conditions because we say the sign shall not exceed 2500 nits between the hours of civil sunrise and Oh, wait. That's sunrise and sunset. That's good. And then we say 500 nits from sunset to sunrise. But earlier one of the the ordinance says signs adjacent to residential property shall not shall have a maximum of 250 nits from civil sunset to sunrise. So should should the condition be changed to it shall not exceed 250 nits? >> Um in this case um [snorts] >> so specifically something where the commission on page 59 okay >> item 14 >> is where we say 250 nets. >> Mhm. Yeah. If the commission would want to make that a condition for approval they can do so. The bigger question is a similar uh one was put up for Taco John's and then also for Guardian Angels Church >> and I don't recall what the values were for the evening hours but they should be in in concert at least with the Taco John one I would think. >> Yeah, I'm not >> I can't remember which it was. That's why I didn't know where to go with >> the same thing he observed. Mhm. >> So, would it be enough for us to just ask staff to check that and clarify it before it goes before council? >> Yeah, we can definitely do that. >> That's all I have. >> Any other questions? >> Looks better than the one they have out there now. >> Yeah, [laughter] it's true. >> And if the same text is put up normally, there's going to be virtually no light going through anyways. Okay. Uh this is a public hearing. Uh does the applicant have anything to say? No applicant. >> So uh this is a public hearing. So I will open the public hearing and let anyone who is in attendance wishes to make comment on this issue please step forward. Seeing that there's no one in attendance, I'm going to automatically close the public hearing and come back to the commission. Anybody make have any further comments? Nothing from me, but I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the CUP amendment for an electronic message sign at 1267 Geneva Avenue North subject to staff looking into the civil sunset. >> Clarifying the 500 250 >> second. >> All those in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion passes. >> Now I think it's appropriate to go on to the staff leaison update. >> Yes. Thank you, chair. So, as you know, we have one vacancy on the planning commission. Um there is a candidate who will be interviewing with the city council next week. So with any luck, we we might have another member here on the on the day not too long from now. And then the other thing I just want to note is that we will likely have a September planning commission meeting. So that's all I have. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh any commissioner updates? Anyone have anything they wish to make comment on now? >> I'm running for city council. You're running for city council. >> I'll be running for city council. Yes. >> Okay. >> So, wish me luck. [laughter] >> Yeah, I'm running too, so I might as well bring it up. >> As one who has run before, good luck, guys. [laughter] >> Luke, you may want to try and fish for another application just in case, >> maybe two. [snorts] >> Council liaison update. >> Good evening. As someone who has run before, I also wish you good luck. [laughter] It's an adventure. Good evening, everyone. Good to see you. Um, just a couple things for you. Um, I just wanted to note that that if you missed it, the council acted on the recommendations from last month's plan commission meeting. So, that was the oversized accessory building, uh, the updated Oakdale Marketplace PUD, which you saw the Mr. Car Wash, not excuse me, not Mr. Car Wash, the Lewab Tire Center tonight. And then also the 94 Exchange building, that's the Fourth Street and Headley area there. Um, and also you may have saw in the local media that the Tanner Lake development agreement was terminated. That was that development at just north of 94 on Geneva Avenue. Um, and there was some local media coverage of that. And then lastly, I just would mention that the council is working on finalizing our budget levy for 2027, which would impact all of us here, uh, staff and and council. So, I think has done a good job of of of dwindling that down. So, I think um we'll end up with a good result. But we're not we're not done yet, but we're working on it. So, that's all I have. Any questions for me? Anyone have any questions for Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. [snorts] >> And that moves us to adjournment. So, moved. Second. >> Okay. Uh any all those in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Motion passes. We stand adjourned. >> All right.