[Music] Good evening everyone. Welcome to uh the city of Columbus. It's our monthly meeting September 24th, 2025. It's a council meeting. First thing on the agenda is to get up and state the pledge of allegiance. [Music] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [Music] First thing on the agenda tonight or the third thing on item A is the adoption of the agenda. Anybody like to make a a motion? >> This is Jenny. I can make a motion. Uh I, Jenny, make the motion to approve the agenda for the September 24th, 2025 city council meeting as presented. >> Scott, I'll second. >> We have a motion on the floor. Is there any discussion? Any questions? Hearing? None. We'll take a vote. Starting with Jenny. >> Jenny I. >> Scott I. >> Janet I. >> And Ron I. Before we go on to item number B here. We should note that we are missing Rob Bush tonight on the council. So, just the four of us along with city attorney Megan, city administrator, city assistant city administrator, our uh director of finance, our engineer, and our public uh works director. Item number B on a consent agenda. Uh, anybody want to make a motion? >> Uh, this is Scott, I'll make a motion. And uh I Scott make the motion to approve the September 24th, 2025 bill payments as presented. >> Is there a second? >> This Jenny I second. >> We have a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any other questions, discussion? Hearing none. We'll call for a vote. Jenny. >> Jenny I. >> Scott I. >> Janet I. >> Ron I. Go down to item number C. First thing on the uh agenda there is the public forum. Is there anybody out in the audience that would like to get up and make a comment to the council? State your name. Lynn. Lynn Carver Quinn. 7540 152nd Lane Northeast. Good evening, Mayor and Council members. The countdown to Fall Fest 2026 has started. 360 days. Just joking. As we come off another successful Fall Fest, there are still a few meetings to have, our recap meetings, um, whatnot. But first off, thank you for supporting Fall Fest again this year. We set the bar high and exceeded our expectations. You have heard me refer to Fall Fest as a puzzle. First, when doing a puzzle, most people start with the edges. Our edges are our sponsors. They make of the rest of the puzzle come together. So, a huge thank you to our business sponsors who make this event happen and invest in our community. Running Aces, Ryback Companies, Forest River RV Camping World, Batumis Roadways, Davy Tree Experts, KI Auto, Blaine Brothers, Dave's Hydrovac, Mestelle Brothers, Westmore Fluid Solutions, Viking Industrial, Waldocks, Olsson Sewer, Semstone, Blaze Credit Union, Bolton and Mink, Blake Well Drilling, Lurin and Hoff, and then Bergens for the gorgeous mums that made everything look so beautiful, especially the photo op area. The puzzle contains many pieces. They include the Lions, the car show volunteers, the Fall Fest volunteers, all of them who help make everything run smooth. the executive committee, exhibitors, vendors, the rock and Hollywoods, the ninja anywhere, the Columbus Elementary PTO, and this year, Lori gets her own piece. She's the glue that holds us all together. Next, I would like to thank the executive committee, Jack, Aaron, Lori, and my co-chair, Jenny. We had an amazing committee that worked hard to make this year's Fall Fest a success. Unfortunately, the movie on Friday was cancelled, but a shout out to all those that came to the races, especially Dave's hydro back. They all stood outside in the rain to watch their race. So, that was really fun to see them brave the rain and cheer on their race. Again, thank you for supporting Fall Fest and I hope those that were there enjoyed themselves. >> Well, thank you, Alen. Appreciate it. Anyone else in the audience like to make a statement or comment to council? Is there anybody online that would like to on Zoom? Seeing none, we'll close the public forum. Go on item number two, the two 2026 capital improvement plan request for approval pages one, two, and enclosure. Jack, do you want to take this? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The city's capital improvement plan is a multi-year plan that identifies, prioritizes, and budgets for major infrastructure projects and equipment replacement for the coming year and for each of the subsequent years of their individual fund schedules. This plan is to be approved by city council and is used in the preparation of the 2026 budget. The proposed 2026 City of Columbus CIP was reviewed by the city council at their September 15, 2025 special budget meeting and is exhibited as attachment one in your packet. I also want to make note that this page that is at your seat is schedule A. It's the first page in your plan. It will replace the schedule A that's in your plan. There were a few modifications done to adjust some of the things we went over on a few schedules. No real material changes, but this sheet does replace the sheet that was in your packet. The CIP outlines an equipment replacement schedule for the period covering 2026 to 2033. Proposed budgets for road reservicing through 2033. Park capital and land accounts that list proposed park improvements for the period covering 2025 to 2034. fire equipment replacement and fireh hall capital projects through 2031 and general fund capital projects through 2031. Approval of the pro proposed CIP only commits the city to those projects and replacements scheduled in calendar year 2026. Projects beyond 2027 and then beyond are for planning and budgeting purposes and are evaluated annually for funding and prioritization as part of the upcoming year's needs and assessment processes. Total transfers to the 2026 CIP are proposed to be 1,60,764, which is an increase over $139,754 over the final 2025 transfer amount of $921,10. The preliminary transfer amount for the 2025 budget prior to the transfer reductions was $1,15,000. These transfers are for annual appropriations to ensure that monies are available to fund schedule replacement and improvement needs for the city over a 7 to 10 year forecast period. Staff request that city council consider approval of the 2026 capital improvement plans as exhibited in attachment one of your packet with the replacement sheet is indicated to replace schedule A of that handout. Thank you, Jack. Anybody have any questions on this? >> Um, I had a whole bunch of questions. I don't know if Jack wants to go over them for the benefit of everybody else or >> what? >> That's >> on the cap. >> That's >> That's entirely up to you. Or we can make those adjustments. They're not really >> um so the questions that I had um excuse me uh starting with the um schedule B. Um I I could not get the proposed budget for 2026. I could not make those numbers add up. I don't know if And neither could Jack at least on the fly. So I don't know if if when you talk about the transfers here if that's going to make a difference in terms of the amount. >> This page won't make uh the difference in the amount. That amount 669 >> the amount we had planned in there. Uh Aaron, if you can put your cursor on the yellow shaded column. >> Cheryl's driving the bus. >> Okay. Okay. So, uh you can see there's the top line. There's the amount transferred over from carried over from the previous year. There's three numbers in red and I think those I don't have my copy in front of me, but I think they add up. What is it? >> Okay. So, right off the bat, you have a beginning balance that's different than what's on my sheet. Your beginning balance is 231,924. or mine says 9 982,889. >> That that was a correction that was made from the previous one. So I'm not sure when >> and that's I mean I'm going by what was in my packet. I think >> what is it? Let's go let's go over the cost on 2024 to see how that that 20 25 carryover amount was derived. Cheryl's looking for that number now. >> So I'm just looking. >> Okay. Yeah. So the 2025 numbers are different and the 2026 numbers are different. So my yellow column is the 2026. Your yellow column is a 2025. Okay. Um The question the question that I had was that it looked like we were starting with almost a million dollars at least by the spreadsheet and then it said we were going to transfer another 663,000 from the general fund. It's like why would we do that if we have a million dollars sitting there? Oh, but if you look at the ending balance from 2023, right, we had 231,000. Our budget is for 2025. We don't have all of the expenses in for 2025 yet. So, that's going to make a difference. So, if you look at um I mean the number the numbers that you're showing there are different than what's on the spreadsheet for 2025 also by a lot. So, is that true for yours too, Jenny? Yeah. So, I don't know what we got in our what I we got in our packet, but the numbers are way off. >> I just threw mine away. Do you want me to show you, Cheryl? I'm going to look at one other thing. Okay. >> Um, while I was out of the office, Jack and I were kind of making changes on the flight, so I just want to see what our last changes were. Well, hold on one second. D E. Hold on, Jack. Here. This might be the one that you and I were working on while I was [Music] these are the package numbers. >> Get out of here. [Music] >> Oh my. >> While Cheryl's looking at that, are there were there any other questions we can address while we can give you an answer to that question? So, I think the other question that you and I talked about just before the meeting was in the um parks. So, there it looked like there was a $27,700 levy >> that evidently is not true. It's not It's a transfer. Is that >> Yeah, that that number should be moved down >> sale on the thing. We'll make sure that happens. But in but in your memo, you have a 34 $34,200 transfer from the general fund to fund 403. But it's not coming from the general fund. It's coming from the park fund. Correct. >> That's correct. >> So I So I just want to make sure before we adopt any final numbers that we got the final numbers correct because this isn't this isn't a transfer from the general fund. This is a transfer from dollars that are already in the park fund. Now that's that's correct. That fund would be coming from the parks fund. That would be coming actually from fund 150 which is in the general budget. And because it's the savings that we realize is a result of Ryan not continuing his contract with the city and the city taking over the mowing there. So there was $37,500 in his categories. Of that 375, we left $6,000 in that other account for contract services. We did $6,500 to set up the depreciation advertisation schedule for the mower that we purchased and then used $25,000 of that to do park capital fund improvements essentially to set up things for the purchase or the being able to do the playground project in two years. There was currently $2700 allocated there. So that can be we'll move that fund down from the levy to from a levy to a transfer. >> So what's the fund number that the money is coming from? Isn't there two? >> There's no transfer, Janet. So normally I'm going to just use round numbers. Normally we would levy $50,000 for fund 150, the general park fund. Now, instead of levying it all to 150, we're going to take 25,000 for 150, 25,000 for the park capital. So, the levy isn't increasing. We're not increasing the amount of money that we're allocating to the park. It's just being broken out differently. Does that make sense? So, it's different what Jack was saying. What what I was understanding is these dollars are already sitting in the in the park fund. Um and they're just being transferred now over to the park capital fund. No. So the op they were in the operations fund before. Correct. >> And now they're being transferred over to the park capital fund as part of the levy. Yes. So we are levying for it. Yes. >> But it's not increasing the levy. It's the dollars are just being allocated different. >> It's the same amount that we allocated last year. It's just we're breaking up that amount differently this year. So, we're not asking for an increase in the levy for parks. >> Okay. >> We're just breaking it out between the general fund and the capital fund. >> I guess I guess what I'm struggling with is that in prior years we had an expense to match what we were leving for. It was the expense that we um anticipated from either True Green or or Ryan, right? >> We have still True Green. I am assuming must still do it, >> but Ryan's part has gone away and that's being taken over now by our public works plus whatever we're putting in um for some seasonal work. So, I don't want to just levy the money cuz that's what we've always done. No, we're doing that because Jim will need to start saving to replace the lawnmowers. There's >> more 6,500 and I get that. I that I'm talking about the 27,000. So, the 6,500 is no problem. I understand that it's this 27,700 that I'm trying to figure out what what is that going to because I don't like the idea of just moving money around because I happen to have it there. We we have a projected playground equipment project in 2027. And with that levy and what we would levy, if we levy the same amount in 2027, we'll have enough cash to do that. >> But we've I mean, we've they've talked about it. They've not approved it. They've not gotten any bids on it. They haven't >> Well, we're not we we we won't bid that until next year anyway. It's we not we can't bid it now because the bids won't be any good in a year. It's just a way to get a source of funding in there so we can say we can do this project. >> Well, so I'd like to hear from everybody else how you're feeling about that. I'm feeling I I like the idea that when we look at our expenses, we can say what it's for. And this one feels not like that. It feels like it's money that was sitting in in the other account that we're moving over cuz now we don't need it in that account anymore. >> And I mean, you can always think of things to spend it on, of course, but >> but Jim said that much of our playground equipment is past its life and so we know that that will have to be replaced. >> Megan, you have something to say. >> Yeah. if if if if we don't do that, then we're going to have to double we'll have to levy again for that extra amount in 2027. So, do we want to levy place that money in that account now, or do we want to levy for $54,000 in 2027 to make up that gap that we're going to have in that playground replacement equipment project? >> And and I would just suggest to you all that, you know, this CIP action is really looking at prioritization and planning. Um and so authorizing uh you know sort of movement of funds to these future balances to accommodate a future project does not put them out for bid. It does not authorize staff to move forward with them. It doesn't take that other action. It's really a planning tool. Um and so I think what I hear staff saying is that um based upon what they foresee as future needs, this is a a good way to use these dollars for future planning. >> So and I I I understand that. But what I what I'm struggling with is this is the first time I've heard that assigned to this. There we have working on a park master plan for several years. That's I mean if we had a park master plan that called for these kinds of things, I'd feel a lot better about um levying money for it. But I I'm I just don't like the idea of leving money for sort of nebulous needs. Well, we don't we don't look at it as a nebulous thing and you know we can discuss that but uh we did discuss this and it was brought out at one of our previous budget meetings that with the change of the way we maintain the parks. Ryan is no longer contracting all of it. Here's what we're going to do to utilize some of these funds and it's going to go for a project but that project won't be done until 2027 because we won't have the funds until then. I I I I understand the part about Ryan. That's not what I'm talking about because that I mean, we have talked about that and we all agree that that was the right way to go. >> I mean, I'm just that's my opinion. I let anybody else chime in. >> I I'll repeat again. I mean, this is a preliminary budget number. You have time to refine all the way into December. So, >> no, I I also know that. Yeah. Well, and that's why I'm asking the question because I'm not saying that we have to take it out tonight, but I don't I'm not feeling really great about that number. So, maybe that one needs to be looked at by looked at more if everybody else is feeling the same way or if others are feeling the same way. >> And this is Jenny. I think I would feel more comfortable as well if I had that copy that I were looking at. So, I think that's where I feel a little bit off as well. Um, so I don't know. I mean, we can always adjust down, right? We can't adjust up. And so I think I'm comfortable at least for what this is as a preliminary measure and then we can really re-evaluate because I think it would be important that we all are looking at the same numbers because I think I my copy and like council member Hegeland noted was at 982,000. >> Your copy is the correct copy, Jen. >> I just don't have Jack's updated copy. >> Okay. >> Don't go by what I pulled up. Obviously I'm not matched with Jack. what you have from Jack is the correct version. I was just trying to bring mine up uh to assist everyone. The copies that you have are the corrected copies from Jack. I just don't have the most updated version from Jack's. >> Okay. Thank you for Thank you for clarif >> So, so we jumped ahead on the on the park capital because we were kind of waiting to get the the road maintenance um question answered. So, I think I think if we're okay with just leaving it as is, but you're marking that for further discussion before the final, I would be satisfied with that. >> And I this is Jenny. I have one question as well. Um I again I'm on so I'm jumping to schedule C. Are we still on schedule B or can I jump? >> You can jump wherever you want. >> So one question about the tennis court repair resurface. I know that we obviously underbudgeted for that. So now we're levying that additional 52,000 is what I'm understanding. Is that correct? >> We are proposing a transfer. Well, there's I think Could you pull that schedule C up under the CIP? >> Oh jeez. I'm going to try. >> There's was $78,000 we had in the budget. >> Correct. >> And last year when we approved that for a tennis court project, we said we would bid the project and then we would evaluate the cost. And when we evaluate the cost, we make a determination if we're going to go through with it. So, we got the bids. The base bid was 126 $126,000. We had 78. So we approved a fund transfer of $48,000 to cover that gap. And we're going to pay that $48,000 back with the sale of the hidden park property or with any park dedication fees that we get for future development projects. So, one of my questions and and again, I know that this comes out of a different fund, but we had $30,000 that we saved in what we had planned for generators. And so, I'm curious why we aren't accounting for that a little bit, why we're pulling from other budgets. >> So, >> so in capital improvement funds, >> dollars are allocated to certain funds. You can't move them from the black top fund to a building fund. they're allocated and approved for a fund. They have to stay inside of that fund. Okay. Does that make sense? >> Yes. Thank you for clarifying. >> Well, I think by what Jenny is suggesting, you could move that money. You could move the money from where we had it in the M I think it was just in a maintenance, right, to a capital fund. You just can't do the backwards. Um, so, so the only other thing I would bring up on this schedule is if you just add a note about the $48,000 transfer in 2025. It's just a bookkeeping thing, but it will remind us that it's a it's an inter fund um loan, and I have that in there. >> It's not on my sheet. >> I mean, it's on the it's on the schedule. It's just not in the notes section. >> Okay, I'll add it as a note, Janet. Thanks. So, do we want to go back to the road maintenance, the 402 fund? [Applause] Are you in 402, Janet? >> Yeah. >> Go back to the 402 disposal. >> Mine's not right, though. So, I don't want to show them that because mine's not the updated version. Can we just work off of paper? >> Yep. I would say let's just work off the paper. >> So, so the question I I couldn't get the numbers to add up. That's the first question. Um the second question is if we have almost a million dollars carry forward in this fund. I wasn't I wasn't understanding um the transfer of 663,000 into it >> because at the at the bottom of this it shows that we're carrying forward another almost million dollars and I know that this is a fund that we talked about having a fair amount of cash kind of sitting there and I wasn't at the I wasn't at the Monday special meeting where you guys may have talked about this so if it was something you discussed sorry for bringing it up but I just didn't understand it. >> One the one thing that I can add to your question >> and for you also I don't see calcium chloride on on this budget. >> Say that again. >> I don't see any calcium chloride. >> It's not on there. It's in operation. >> Okay, that's why. Okay. >> So, if you notice in 2025, we graveled and we did some crack sealing. We did not do any other projects. Right. Right. We should have, but we didn't because we've been talking about Hornsby for the better part of two years, and we weren't sure where or how we were going to pay for it. So, I opted not to do any projects that would have reduced that fund down in case we had to use this fund to pay for Hornsby Street, which was, >> I'm going to call it roughly $700,000, right? Which then we would have only rolled over 300, right? So the reason that this fund is higher is because I didn't do anything this year and I would have if we weren't holding off because of Hornsby Street. Now we're trying to get money elsewhere but you know at that point >> we talked last year like I'm not going to do anything in 2025 because we don't know where this money is going to come from and if I if I have a project then we can't take it from here because I'll I'll wipe it out. >> No. >> Does that make sense? >> No. I it totally totally makes sense. It it doesn't I mean I was more focused on the 2026 I can't get the numbers to add up correctly. >> I can't help you. >> Yeah. >> And and in Jack's memo it talks about a 663,588 funds transfer from the general fund to fund 402. And if you add up what you have the top for black top budget crack filling and gravel and limestone, that adds up to 663,558. But I don't understand why we're transferring money in for that when we have plenty here to cover it >> cuz I'm going to spend it. >> I have no doubt that no matter how much we throw at you, you will spend it. So, so the couple of things, you know, I pushed out I pushed out some projects from last year, right? So, you know, I have a couple of projects set up for next year and I'm going to I have to adjust. So, if you look at the project list, you can see like in 2027 there's a CAM 3 155th project that's going to get moved around because that's the same year that they're doing the roundabout. >> So, I don't want to be doing our project at the same time they're doing theirs. So, we're going to be moving some stuff around, but I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm a huge spender, but >> well, but >> we're we're going to utilize it. >> I mean, when you look at when you look at this worksheet, and these worksheets are really helpful because it shows how you're going to cash flow it. There is no cash flow problem. Look at the bottom line, right? >> I get that. But, if you look at it, I don't I have basically what I have going across here are steel code projects, right? >> Every year I look at different projects and I add them in. They're not they're not they're not necessarily pushed up to the top all the time. You know what I mean? So I'm doing I have a project list that I have down on the bottom. I go out two years >> because I I I can't I mean I could put a bunch of projects on there, right? >> But it but it's a mere guess. So you So as we've talked about um Notre Dame, right? I mean that thing popped out of nowhere, right? So, so this is a very fluid sheet. So, what I think I'm going to do this year could effectively change next year and I'm going and and I'm going to come to you and say I had this plan, but I need to do this instead. >> So, so your 2026 Westerson and 167th that you have in your projects, is that reflected in the 2026 budget? >> Yes. >> Okay. That's I mean that's fine. >> Yep. >> That's that. So, you don't need to justify what's in there for projects because I think that's fine. That's not what I'm questioning. My my question is I can't get the numbers to add up >> and I don't know why we would transfer $600 and some thousand dollars in when it looks like we have adequate dollars to do what you want to do and still have being able to cash flow future projects. >> This is Jenny. My only concern would be that we already would be planning for West Iverson and 167th and then would also need to do Notre Dame and Notre Dame is going to be very expensive and we all know that that needs to happen. Um and so >> we don't know what we are doing with Notre Dame though. >> No. Right. But we all but I also know that that will either bump all these other dates back that that's not going to wait until 2028. >> I so so I mean as as so you so to add on to your uh statement, we don't know what we're going to do. We know the minimum price is I don't remember 300 or 380. That's the minimum cost. If we decide that we're going to, you know, rebuild the whole road and make it to a 10 ton and we're going to put um sidewalks and do all that stuff, it's going to be 3 million. So I I I mean when we talked about that before, there was all sorts of ideas getting thrown out, right? Mhm. >> So, I guess what I'm saying is I have projects that I'm that I can throw in here that I will throw in here. >> Um I just don't I just don't push them all the way out there. So, as a general rule of thumb, we're spending close to $600,000 a year every year. Last year, I think we spent God 900 700. I mean, it was a huge chunk of money, right? So, I mean, this would have this would look totally different if I would have spent 600 in 2025 and next year we're going to spend 770. The year after that says 515, but I have I don't have any, you know, if I take and add the 2027 blocktop project in there, that's another 400,000. So, you know what I'm saying? I I just don't have the big projects in there. I have the every six year seal code numbers in there um because I know that I know what those are and I know what year those are going to go in. Everything else is fluid after that. >> But but you said you included the Iverson and the in there and 167. >> So next year it's $770,000. That's that's roughly what we're going to spend, right? We got to go out for bids and you know I could be off on my number a little bit. It could be higher. It could be a little bit lower. But as a general rule of thumb, that's what it's going to be. And we're going to spend um that four to $800,000 a year on maintenance. >> Jenny, can I ask has there been any movement on any studies or anything on Notre Dame yet? Again, I'm not trying to say we need to plan for that now, but I'm I have concerns about that road um and just the quality of it now. And so I know that you already have other projects planned, but do you know have has >> we haven't done anything with that? Okay. >> And and I'll go off a recollection. I don't know. >> I don't know that we were approved to do anything. >> No, I think we approve the soil >> boring >> just a boring talked about it. I think we talked about getting uh an estimate, but I don't >> and borings >> and an an estimate for borings, but I don't know that we were approved to do borings. Not that I not that I remember. Let me say that. >> So, so I think Jenny, I mean, even where we are at right now once we know what we're going to do and we put this on, this isn't going to be a next year project. Um so so again going back if you add up our current the what what it says in this memo is our transfer um and a levy it it adds up to way more than 1.69 million. So we have to figure that out despite all the other interesting conversation about projects. We have to figure the number out. What I would recommend for the purpose of this discussion tonight is again this could be a placeholder number and let us get back and if you would like to join us in a meeting and discuss this and figure out where we are with this, we can go do that and then make that final adjustment in December at the final levy. I think it's going to take more than just a few minutes and hours here tonight discussing this. >> I second that, Jack. I I I This is what we've done. What' you say? Nine meetings on this so far. The budget. >> I was being sarcastic, but >> we haven't done nine meetings on this capital improvement. >> You had one. >> We've done enough of them. >> Let's put it off. >> I missed it. I was sick. Well, >> should we put it off till December or another? >> Well, we we we we have until December the 10th is when we have uh a resolution for you to approve to set the date and the hearing for the final levy. So, as long as we have it done by then, we're good. >> You know, I guess I don't mind pushing things that are a few tens of thousands of dollars in question. something that's almost $700,000 in question. I don't I mean I know that we can correct it in December, but there is a perception that goes along with what the preliminary levy is. >> Well, and I also don't like the idea that as we sit here and we can't figure out the numbers that we're okay with just pushing this through. I think we need to figure out why why we can't what the what these numbers actually represent. That's just my point. That's just my view. >> Do you want it on the next workshop meeting again? >> Well, it has we have to have this submitted by the end of this month. It's 24. >> So, I mean there will >> you do it in the next day and that's about as much time as we have. So, I can I can say that if you look down on the bottom where that budget summary is down there, those are my numbers. And the proposed levy for blacktop and gravel and the 20,000 for crack filling comes up to 663,000. That's the proposed levy for for uh 2026. >> Well, no. According to this, the proposed levy is 714,583. and there's a transfer of 663. That's my that's why I'm questioning it, Jim, is because you've got a levy of over $700,000 and then you have a transfer of $663,000 according what's on this sheet right here. I don't know if that was your intention, but if it was, then you know, we need to understand why. >> I don't do the top. I only do the top. >> No, I get it. It's fine. >> So So I mean I I can't speak to that. I I don't I don't know that. Yeah, >> but that but that's why I'm being stubborn about it because it's a lot of money. [Music] [Music] And I mean, and I mean I just got this we just got this yesterday, so it's not like we've been sitting on it for a week. Janet, where are you seeing the transfer? >> Um, it's in his memo. So, in our packet on the second page, he's got um several bullet points about the the CIP plan. And it says the second bullet point is 663588 transfer from general fund to to the fund 402. And as I said, if you add up those um the black top budget crack filling and gravel and limestone on the top part, that's what it equals. >> Okay. So, this is where I was confused cuz I'm looking on this and we have a $1,000 fund transfer on the budget worksheet >> down below. Yep, you're right. That's interest. That's not a fund transfer. So, if you look at your 10page budget sheet, so the wording I think in the packet may be misleading people. The total budget for fund 402, the public works road maintenance fund is $664,000. We're estimating we're going to have $1,000 in interest. So, that would make the levy 663,000. I think we're going off into the weeds and now we have so many versions. This on your big budget sheet, the 10-page budget sheet, lists the dispersements as 664,000, which ties out to Jim's projects. I think we're so busy trying to make so many revisions to the capital improvement plans that were going off into the weeds. your 10page budget. If you look at page five, if everybody could look at page five, is this the budget that says dispersements? Yes. Okay. On page five, it lists the public works capital fund 401. So that's the 159,600. That's what is included in the levy amount. the capital fund 402 the 664,000 that's what's included in the levy amount it's not 1 million or I think that capital improvement plan sheets um I think they're confusing everyone more this the schedules yes this 10 page >> mean this is what we look at when we're trying to figure out projects to give you the number that's on the 10 page does that make your 10page dispersement. Janet, those numbers are >> that is what is in our levy amount. So maybe we have to just I think we've gone off into the weeds on the capital improvement plans. This 10page dispersement sheet is what will be levied for. And and so the number that um is in our resolution is from this 664 not from the schedule B. Correct. It will be 664 minus $1,000 for the interest. So it will be the 663,000. Yeah. >> Does that all right? >> So look at these. Um you know I think we've been trying to be mindful and plan and allocate money for projects for equipment uh park plans uh general city plans. Um, and I know we've revised these based upon, you know, recommendations and, you know, people giving their input, but this is the actual number, the 10 page. And Jim is right. These capital improvement plans, they're our work papers. Um, >> but they're but they're also informative to us because we need to be able to back we need to be able to explain why we approved X and this gives us the projects. >> Yes. So when the schedules don't match this, >> yes, >> I mean it's impossible. It is impossible for us to get this amount of paper with no instructions and no like map of what to look at and stuff and try to figure this out. So typically when we talk about capital improvements, we do work off these schedules because it gives us the detail to ask the questions. >> So I just want you to feel confident the numbers your big packet are correct. they will tie out to our levy amount. Um maybe we have to have a work meeting and we just go through the capital improvement plans and revise them and make sure that they match. But this 10page dispersement report is accurate. That's what we are accounting for in our levy amount >> budget schedule. >> All right. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. So, with that in mind, one of the ways um that we could work through the CIP uh approval is to amend your motion to uh approve the 2026 capital improvement plan as presented in the uh Oh, Jack, you gave me the good language in the preliminary budget >> dispersement schedule. >> Dispersement schedule. So just to add that to the motion, >> that would be my that would be my recommendation because the initial motion references the staff report and because there's some inconsistency there, we can defer to those work pages. >> That would be the motion itself. >> Can I ask one other question before I make that? So this is on the um fund 406. I just it's a question. So, I know that the ladder truck expense got moved down. I can't remember to what year. Like >> it was moved out to 2038. It was left at the same value. To me, there's that's an exercise in futility to go out 15 years to guess what the value of the ladder truck's going to be. When we get information from the fire department, it's going to be 30 $3 million in 2031 and it's going to be $3 million in 2038. If you do the appreciation schedules, that works out in my world of about $4 and a half million dollars. So to me, we've got to have better information and we can't plan that far out with the numbers we have on that from the fire department. >> So, thank you for confirming that cuz on the schedule it still says it's in 2031. I know there's a note here that says it got moved, but on the schedule it was still 2031. So, I my question was, is that what we're allocating? Are we allocating against that 2031 schedule? Y >> and and since we're levying, you know, a dollar amount here that >> maybe is higher than we need to. That was and again, we can talk more about that between now and December. I just I wanted to make sure I remembered this correctly. >> No, that that that's correct. And that's what that levy amounts based on the 2031 or the 30 the 2031 the $3 million for the ladder truck. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Does anybody want to make the motion? >> I will. So, um, so this is Janet. I make the motion to approve the 2026 capital improvement plan as presented in the preliminary budget 2026 dispersement worksheets. >> Mr. Jenny, a second. >> We got a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any questions? Any further discussion? Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Jenny, >> Jenny, I. >> Scott, I. >> Janet I. >> Ron, I item number three, the 2026 preliminary budget request for approval pages 3 through six on enclosure. >> Thank Thank you, Ron. The 2026 city of Columbus preliminary budget will be presented to city council at tonight's meeting. The 2026 preliminary budget must be approved and submitted to the inoka county property records and taxation department by September 30th, 2025. The final city 2026 budget and certification forms must be submitted to the county by December 29th of this year. The city council began their discussion of the 2026 preliminary budget on July 1st, 2025 and concluded their review on September 15, 2025. The 2026 preliminary budget has been a topic at five council, three workshops, and two special meetings during this period. And the proposed levy res from 8.5 to 3.4% over the course of these discussions. The preparation of the 2026 preliminary budget faced a number of challenges that include budgets for 2024 and 2025 included no general levy increases and inflationary cost over the last two years of added additional expenses that had to be addressed in this year's budget. The 2026 preliminary budget was burdened by cost increases and general obligation bond payments of $61,000 and firing law enforcement contracts of an equal amount for 2026. The city is obligated on the bond repayment schedule to the bond repayment schedules and by the agreements with the anoka county and city of Forest Lake for cost of outsourcing public safety services. decreased transfers to city capital fund accounts in the amount of $81,000 were used to balance the 2025 budget. $46,000 have been allocated to the 2026 preliminary budget to begin the process of making these funds whole by 2027. As of September 15, 2026, the proposed preliminary general fund expenditures for 26 2026 would be $4,979,749,000. And this includes the EDA levy of $87,650 or an increase of $131,743 over 2025 expenses. When non-levy revenues for 2026 in the amount of $66,000 are removed from the total 2026 general fund cost, the levy increase for 2026 would be 3.4%. Wages and benefit amounts for the preliminary budgets are based on the 2025 pay plan. This is a placeholder number in the budget until final wage in the compensation plan is approved at the October 8th, 2025 council meeting. The city and county have HR programs, both with separate levies and essentially the same responsibilities. Neither of these are a part of the general fund budget, but are included as special levies on the preliminary and final tax statements issued by the county in November 2025 and March of 2026. As the city is part of the county HRA program, it is recommended the city reduce its 2026 HRA budget from 126,000 in one in 2025 to $5,000 for 2026. While this decrease is not part of the general fund levy, application of the HRA reduction would be an equivalent of an increase in the levy amount of $27,242 in 26 over the 2025 total expenditures. This combination would result in a levy increase of 0.0063% or a little over half a percent. Water and sewer enterprise accounts are not part of the general fund levy and are paid for user fees. Their budgets are set by are set independent of any city levies. Staff is requesting city council approval of the 2026 preliminary budget and submittal to the inoka county property records and taxation department by September 30th, 2025. And just as a clarification on that H, if we reduce that budget for the city levy from $120 to $5,000, if you take that $115,000 and deduct it from what we're going to pay in taxes anyway, that means our true budget increase this year would go up a little over a half a percent. Now, currently the they're separated out. The HA levies are listed under special levies, so they're not combined, but if you combine them, that's what it would be. [Music] Oh, here we go again. Any uh any discussion about this one on the preliminary budget? I'm just looking at the memo. The memo you didn't this does not state the values that are in the resolution. Correct. Cuz the because I'm adding up these numbers. These numbers aren't adding up on this resolution either. >> No. The if you look at your on page nine. >> Okay. And you look at those numbers there, those tie out to what's in the resolution. >> Page nine is um Ellen's contract in my packet. >> Can you pull page nine after that, Aaron? >> On the budget sheets? >> Yes. Oh, on the budget. >> Page nine of the packet. >> Yeah. On the budget sheets. Page nine. Page nine. And this is shows a final of the total of all those fund accounts not including the water fund and the sewer fund or the HR fund >> of $4,892,97 and then when the EDA fund is added to that and then you subtract the 606,00 000 for non-general fund revenues. Then that's where you get your levy amount on the resolution form. >> So I'm sorry I couldn't hear half of what you said. So the the city of Columbus general 3,598 3,598,000. Is that correct? >> Correct. And the geo bonds is 673,097. >> Correct. >> And the HR or the sorry the EDA is 87650. If you add all those up, it does not add up to 4,212,915. It adds up to 4,358,747. >> Now, on the resolution, >> I'm reading it from the resolution. When you add all those up, okay, you got the the city of Columbus general is 3,598,000. The go bonds are $673,97 and the EDA amount is $87,650. So, when you add those up and then the sunrise of $15,000, that should give you the 4,373,747,000. So, I'm just saying the first three the first three numbers on your resolution do not add up to what you show here on the 225. >> That's that that they they don't add up to that. That's the that was the 2025 Columbus preliminary levy. >> So, if you add the >> So, this is just historical. This is the This is not the the adoption for tonight. >> No, not not the not the the adoption tonight is the total capacity base levels. >> Okay, got it. Sorry, I thought this was the motion or the resolution we were passing tonight. >> And the motion we're passing tonight is for the total capacity base levels of four. And we can add that to the motion too to include that number in there. So you got me confused, Jack. That's the first motion or both motions. >> The first motion on this would be to >> approve >> approve the 2025 preliminary budget and resolution 2512. a resolution approving the 2025 tax levy for property taxes collectible in 2026. And if you want to reference that 4,373,747 in there, that's what we're submitting for the levy. So, it's got after and that motion number two. What's that one about? >> This is the There's another motion we need to make to set the hearing date for the final hearing for the final budget. >> Okay. All right. All right. Any other questions, statements, comments? I I'm sorry. I I mean I must just be dense or still in a brain fog, but shouldn't those first three numbers on this resolution add up to something different than what you have on there? The bottom number, the 4,373747 is correct. >> Yes. >> But the 4,212915 is not. That number should be 4,358,747. If you take that number plus 15,000, you get your correct number here. But that that interim number that is across from 2025 Columbus preliminary levy is not correct in our resolution. >> Okay, you you are correct there, Janet. That's >> Thank you. But not in a brain fog. >> No, I see that that's an addition error. So that number should be where it says 2025 Columbus Preliminary Levy should be 4,358747. >> Thank That's >> then when you add the 15,000 to it, that gives you the 4,373 747. >> Now I'm happy. >> 4,358. What? >> 747. >> 7. Okay. Any other questions, comments? Hearing none, I'll make the motion. Nonran make the motion to approve the preliminary budget for 2026 and resolution 25-12. A resolution approving the 2025 tax levy for property taxes collectible in 2026. Can >> you say with the corrections noted? in our discussion >> or the actual number. >> What's the actual number again? >> Right there. >> The correction in the actual number is 4,358,747. >> This is Jan. Second. >> We got a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any other comments, questions, statements? None. Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Jenny. >> Jenny. I. >> Scott. I >> Janet I >> Ron I now we'll go on to motion number two I Ron make the motion to approve the resolution 2513 a resolution setting the date for the final budget tax levy hearing for December 10th 2025 at 6 p.m. at city hall. >> Scott, I'll second. >> Got a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any other discussion, questions? Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Jenny, >> Jenny, I. >> Scott, I >> Janet I. >> Ron, I don't know which form to throw away. We'll go on to item number four, career enhancement opportunities contract CEO pages 7 through 19. >> Thank you, Ron. Career enhancement opportunities and the city of Columbus entered into a professional service agreement on October 30th, 2023 for human resources consulting support. The second amendment to this agreement was approved and extension of the contract to December 31st, 2024. The third amendment was approved on May 28th, 2025, retroactive to January 1st, 2025, and extended this agreement to August 31st, 2025. The city council is requested to consider a new professional service agreement with CEO to continue HR consulting services and supports. $9,900 for human resource consulting services has been included in the 2026 preliminary budget to fund this cost in 2026. Continued service through 2025 will require a fund transfer to cover over budgeted cost incurred between June and August of this year. City Council is requested to consider approval of the professional service agreement contract 2 with career enhancement opportunities for the term condition scope of work and deliverables as exhibited in attachment one of your packet. >> Uh we have some discussion on let me add one thing. There is a uh contract with some red lines in it. a few minor things in the actual legal document itself that Megan reviewed and provided for us. U those are exhibited in your redline handout. And then I think there's some differences in what our exhibit A is and Megan's is that we'll need to go over and review those. >> Absolutely. So the city uh utilizes a standard professional services agreement template. Um this agreement with CEO uh mirrors our template agreement. The one uh distinction in this particular agreement is that typically when we have um a professional services provider that is going to be traveling to and from city hall uh we will require uh evidence of um underlying insurance for their vehicle. uh the uh property or the owner of of CEO, Miss Hinrix, did not was not able to provide that um through her personal automobile service. She they didn't have a business liability product that um would meet our typical standards. And so we've included a pretty broad indemnification provision that just makes it clear that anything that happens along the way to the city of Columbus is uh is not compensated or and will not be covered by this contract. Um, but other than that, I stand ready to take any questions about the contract itself and and then defer to staff with regards to the deliverables that are attached uh on the more complete exhibit A that uh is is not the red line version that you have in front of you. >> Pat, you had some >> Yeah, this is Scott. Uh, one question I had is um under um the scope of services if the city chooses not to utilize anything in these bullet points um are we obligated to pay? >> We are not that deducted from >> uh so the overall agreement um requires that um we pay uh the consultant on a deliverable basis. So once the work on one of those bulletoint items is completed, she will provide an invoice uh and then we will pay that invoice for the work done. Uh no a deliverable that is left uncomplete incomplete um will not be compensated. >> Okay. and that's under deliverables or would that also be under like our our scope of services number one training and development for example if if the city decided they didn't want to do the disk system >> would that would that be uh an example of what we may not choose to do >> absolutely yep these are the menu of options that you have available to you >> very good thank you >> um so this is Janet I just had a couple of suggestions you can see if you agree with them or not So under the um it is number the clause number three considerations and it talks about um I'm on the top of page two or at least one of the copies it's page two it says city's payment shall be made within 30 days of the um after consultants invoice consultants invoice shall contain a detailed list of work completed I would think we would say a deta detailed list of deliverables completed during the per the billing time period and then I was going to add and for hourly services labor and hours rates and nature of the hourly services and the amount undertaken by the consultant. So there's two different types of services she's providing. One is like a fixed cost and one is an hourly and there and this doesn't um specify what she needs to um provide as documentation for the hourly services. So I was just I was just suggesting that we add to that sentence um her labor, her her rates, the hours and the nature of the survey. So for instance, it might be, you know, 1.5 hours um doing an exit interview with employee XXX. Um so that it's really clear to Cheryl when she gets these invoices what how it how it ties back to the contract. And I just know in the past that's been a little bit hard to figure out sometimes. Uh so I think we can revise this term to say city's payment shall be made within 30 days after consultant's invoice. consultant's invoice shall either contain a detailed list of deliverables completed during that billing period and or uh hourly services as authorized pursuant to exhibit A and we yes and we do not name exhibit A. Um so I think that would be the structure to be able to to uh facilitate both of those types of product. >> Right. I just think it's help it would be helpful for for Cheryl when she gets these because we have a not to exceed amount I think on the on the hourly services. And so by having her spell out how many hours and and her rate and you know what that equals then it's really easy for the accounting staff to be able to flag if we're getting close to that not to exceed amount. And I just know we've had a problem with not a problem but we've not done as good a job on that part as we have in the past or or she hasn't. And then my other my other suggestion would be on um the list of deliverables, not on the work scope, but on the list of deliverable deliverables. Um I would be a little bit more prescriptive about exactly what you want to see because again that's also been something that's been a little you know we think we're getting one thing, she thinks she's supposed to deliver another thing. So um you know if we the the leadership train right now the first bullet is leadership training sessions and quarterly discussions it'd be the facilitation of one leadership training session with training materials because that's what our deliverable is. Um recommendation for training topics co-develop a leadership a sustainable um sorry co-develop with leadership a sustainable training program to align with city council and operational priorities. So then that way it's really clear those are the deliverables for her and for us. Um, and I can give these to you Megan and so you don't have So I just have I have a few of those kinds of comments and I can read them off or I can just give them to you and you can see if you want to incorporate them. But they're just being more specific about what they are so that she knows exactly what it is we want to see back from her. I don't I don't want this to be a sort of oral like well I told Jack that blah blah blah. It's like I want a report that's written. >> Yeah. If you if you just want to give those comments to us to >> do that. Yeah. Just for in the interest of time I it doesn't change any of what we're asking. It's just putting more meat on it. >> Anything else on this topic? >> Nope. >> Nope. All right. Uh, I'll make a motion. I, Ron, make the motion to approve the CEO contract as presented in attachment one to the staff report for this item. >> Do you want to include the >> edits that I just suggested? >> Amended. >> I can't hear you. What' you say? >> Do you want to include the edit that I just suggested to the contract? >> We'll include the edit. Channon second. >> Okay, we got a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any other discussion? Any questions? Hearing none, we'll go to a vote. Jenny, >> Jenny, I. >> Scott, I >> Janet I. >> Ron, I [Applause] for item number five. How do you pronounce that? Scattera. Control system upgrade proposals pages 20 through 24. >> Thank you, Ron. The supervisory control and data acquisition, which is the acronym for scatter communication system integrates the monitoring and remote commands to and between our well sites and the end of our line lift station. The Ziggler pump house is the location of the scatter controls and is the only site with the DSL internet connection. All four sites communicate via radio. However, the bandwidth provided by the radio system is insufficient to manage the volume of data necessary for effective and reliable system coordinated communication. In addition to bandwidth limitations, the DSL line serving these sites has experienced the following ongoing reliability issues. Those being is frequently cut or damage resulting in significant downtime and reliability issues. And during remote access attempts, the connection is often either unavailable due to physical damage or too slow to accommodate real-time system changes and monitoring. Upgrading the current system with the equipment proposed by in control would provide faster and more reliable data transfer rates, elimination of reliance on vulnerable buried cable as our means of linking these sites, and more secure and improved remote access with minimal disruption. Purpose of this system upgrade is to address connectivity problems with the existing DSL internet connection in the main scatter hub at the Ziggler pup station and to improve connection reliability with the remote sites at wellhouse one, wellhouse 2 and three and lift station 6. To address these problems, staff proposing the transitioning scatter system from DSL and radio connections to a cellularbased interface. This upgrade would ensure better system integrity, reduce downtime, and enable enhanced coordination the operation of our separate well and pump sites. Costs to operate our current system are $260 a month. In comparison, the proposed cellular operation option, which offers a more reliable alternative, is $120 a month plus any applicable taxes. Staff recommends approval of the in control proposal in the amount of $25,260 $62 exhibit in attachment one. Funds are available for this system upgrade from our water and sewer enterprise fund accounts. >> And with that I can answer any question. >> Any question? >> Almost any question. So if something breaks down in their system, they pay for it. We stay the same. We paid a $25,000 to initiate. >> So So what it is is so $25,000 is the cost of hardware and programming. Um inside of that system, our SCADA system or SCADA, however people pronounce it, slightly different. Um, what that allows us to do is if I'm sitting right here right now and there's an issue with our system, I can look at it. I can manipulate it. I can do different things or just see what's wrong with it or see if it's operating properly. Right? So, I mean, you can you can do different things. The more money you spend on SCADA system, the more access you can have, right? Ours is in the infant stages. I'm going to say we didn't spend a ton of money on it. We can we have a lot of visual capabilities. We don't have a lot of adjustability capabilities. But what we see when we look at our system when you pull it up, it basically is a crayon drawing of the system. And you know, as time goes on, trees get taller, block signals. I mean, the same same issues that you run into with all sorts of other things. But our system is growing and we're having more difficulties now because with the transfer data of the radios that are there and accessibility with the DSL you you can't get into the system and when you are in there manipulating things it shuts down portions of the system and then that creates you troubles. So they don't communicate if you're in there manipulating things. So, you'll be looking at it and there'll be a series of question marks on there because it's not transferring that data. Well, when it doesn't transfer that data and somebody opens up a fire hydrant, um, one portion of the system will respond to that, but it won't be the way that it should be. Does that make sense? So, >> a different well might turn on versus the Ziggler pump house running it and they they're not talking at that point. And then when they do start to talk, then everything wants to start running because it sees that there's an issue, but it's, you know, 15 or 20 or 30 seconds too late at that point, which in our system is uh it's it's in an infinite amount of time, if that makes sense. the the accessibility with the um the cellular allows that faster transfer. So you're not going to have those dead spots and it will it will move that data around at a faster rate. >> So basically you don't have the bandwidth. >> Basically we don't have the bandwidth. And when our system was small, we still didn't have the bandwidth, but it the demand wasn't there. So, it didn't really matter. You know what I mean? You you could have >> you could have that lag in the system because, you know, a well didn't need to run or, you know, there just we didn't have any water usage. Well, now we do. And with the incoming, you know, uh, truck walk a lot of water and, you know, you got running aces running full boore right now >> and our our water usage is is increasing immensely. So now we're now we're starting to see all of these issues and it's creating some serious troubles for us. So this will be one one addition for us to try to help that out. So you can make adjustments like if you're at home and you see something. >> Yes, you can you can make an adjustment from anywhere. So if as long as I have phone service, you can I can make an adjustment from anywhere in the world actually. So, you know, if if Bill or Brady or Tim are are there, I can be looking at the system and say, "You need to adjust this and this and this," and they can be there adjusting it or fixing a problem, and I can manipulate turning on another well or or doing something to try to keep that system running. >> Jim, is there any concern about security of the system? >> You know, there always is, right? >> Sure. Um, we have firewalls and things like that that are built in um to the Ziggler pump house. So, every I'm not an IT guy by any means, but um you know that stuff is protected and it and you know there's only there's only four people that have access to it. So, it's not like anybody else can can get into it. Um, >> and and I guess I'm asking more specifically, is there any more concern with the cell tower than there is with the DSL for security? >> It's not in there's not an increased security. >> There's not an increase. No. >> Yeah. >> Um, there's a there's a lot of municipalities that run cellular. >> You know, they they run it on their sewer system, they run it on their water system. It's it's an easy way. I mean, the only other way to do it is to put radios out or, you know, you run wire in the ground. Well, we're having trouble with both of those right now. So, you have the Brown and Beagle facility down there and they were cutting our DSL once a week. So there was a stint there that we didn't have we didn't have data down there and we couldn't access it for a solid month which is really problematic for us because we can't you know we can't we can't see or we can't manipulate we can't fix anything. So I mean we were seriously about ready to go down there and wire it up ourselves. >> Yeah that you answered my other question is who's who keeps cutting it. So >> any contractor that does work in the ditch line. >> Yeah. So it, you know, it's a it's a line that runs in the ground and anybody that comes in to do any type of uh right-of-way work, you know, the possibility that they can cut that is is pretty big. >> Does anybody use 811 anymore? >> Say that again. >> Does anybody use 811 anymore? >> Um, everybody's supposed to use it, >> but that doesn't mean that you don't hit it, right? So there, you know, there's a there's a few contractors around that are really good at locating stuff. There's a few contractors around that are not good at all. And, you know, we've had some contractors that have cost us more money on our projects because they didn't locate their utility. Well, if you don't locate your utility when we're doing our leg work up front, we don't know it's there. So then you start digging and you find a, you know, fiber cable. Mhm. >> Um, now it's too late. So now you now you got to hand dig that out, throw it off to the side or cut it, right? And you're, you know, you're not you're not in the you know, you're not in the business to cut people's utilities unless it's accidental, right? So people try really hard to pay attention to that stuff, but it happens. >> So we buy this hardware. Is there insurance on it or something? I mean, are do we have to upkeep it or >> No, it's ours. I mean, so you know, if if at some point it goes out of date or, you know, something happens to it, then yes, it's on us to, you know, hypothetically pay somebody else to repair it because that's not in any of our wheels. >> And it looks like there's a 12 18month warranty on it. there. There's some warranty on, you know, hardware and stuff like that, but >> yeah, >> you know, at some point you're going to you're probably going to pay for a service call or or something of that sort. But >> so this is Janet. So this this will does this allow the pumps to communicate with each other better or is it is it really just so that you get your information from the pumps? >> It allows the pumps to communicate better. >> Oh, good. Okay. I I mean, and so, you know, we really noticed the issue earlier this year, and we had uh we had some troubles at a lift station and they were down there working on it and all of a sudden um our water system started to screw up, right? So, we started getting calls like, you know, our hydronneumatic tank was over full and we were under pressure and it's like, what is going on, right? And you know that happened a couple of times and we didn't put two and two together but it happened the second time it happened we thought uh in control is down there working on this there's a problem. So then we went down there and then we started checking the radios and it's when they were on there they were pulling so much bandwidth to make those changes that that was all that was happening that the system wouldn't communicate. So then everything was running individually and that doesn't work. So, this will this will help that. >> And is is the DSL that we currently using, is that Century Link? Just their phone lines? >> Yep. >> Oh gosh. No wonder it doesn't work. >> I mean, it's it's terrible, right? >> Yeah. No kidding. >> So, I mean, back in the day, I I used to have DSL at my house. It was Frontier, but >> you know, I had high speed and it was 1.2 megabytes. You know what I mean? That was the high speed. >> Yeah. Same here. 1.5. >> Right. So, so I mean, it's it's >> Mhm. It's just outdated and you know we're just trying to make those improvements to just keep things moving along. >> Sounds like a good plan. >> Do they offer any kind of support options if you do have any kind of issues like this in the future? >> In control is our integrator. So anytime we have issues we we work with them. >> Okay. So they are there to support you as well. >> They are they are our support. >> And is that cost included in this or is that a separate cost? Do they bill us for that separately? Do you know? we call them out as a general rule of thumb, it's it's a cost for whatever we're having them work on. So, you know, if they put this in, there's a warranty on this. So, if they put this in and in 2 weeks after they have it in there, we're having difficulties, they're going to come back and they're going to make it work, right? So, we wouldn't pay for that. We're going to pay that $25,262 and they're going to install this and it's going to work when they're done. Okay, >> perfect. Thank you, J. Any other questions? >> Having none, uh, >> yeah, I'll make the motion. Mr. Scott Wendle, I make a motion to approve the in control proposal for the SCADA system upgrade as presented in attachment one of the staff report for this item. >> Miss Jenny, I second. >> We had a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any other discussion or questions? Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Jenny >> Jenny I. >> Scott I. >> Janet I. >> Ron I. Motion passes. Go to item number six. Set the agenda for October 7th, 2025. City council workshop meeting. Page 25. >> Our council workshop meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, October 7th, 2025 at 5:30 p.m. The following items are recommended for discussion. The Minnesota Association of Small Cities has requested to make a presentation to council regarding the advantage of joining their u group. U the city actually got a grant from this organization or through through them that helped for $91,000 approximately three years ago. They would like to present to the city uh their program and see if we're interested in participating in it. The Ino County Highway Department has also requested that they be allowed to come and make another presentation on the final comments for the PTOAC Street openhouse hearing which will be tomorrow at between 5 and 7. Also discuss the proposed detour route for the Kettle River Boulevard and Lake Drive project. And the other item would be the uh discussion of the wage and compensation study in a work meeting for final presentation to city council the following night on October the 8th. Staff recommends that council set the agenda for the items presented and make additions or deletions to this list as appropriate. So this is Janet. I was thinking we were also going to have a legislative platform discussion at this workshop. We talked about doing that in October. >> We we could we could add that. Uh this is going to be a pretty lengthy >> Well, and the other thing is I thought we decided we weren't going to do the wage and comp in October. We would push that to November. I'm just vaguely remembering that from a personnel committee meeting. >> I I I didn't hear that, but if you want to do that, then we can add that legislative thing to this instead of the wage and compensation. So, Ron, I don't know. I I mean, you Ron and Erin, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we were pushing that out because of some of the work that you guys were doing with staff and >> some of >> I think we talked about it. I don't know if we we formalized anything. I think we know that um we need a preliminary budget number, but we can finalize all of those things as long as we do it before January one. I think we're okay. We can we could wait till November. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, let's maybe swap out those two. >> Okay. Any other comments? >> Hearing none. I'll make a motion. I, Ron, make the motion to approve the city council workshop agenda as set by councel >> with the changes that we just made. >> Motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any other discussion? Did you say that? >> I said with the changes that we just made. >> Changes. Okay, >> I'll second that. >> I can't hear you over there. I don't know. >> I I'm not I My voice isn't very loud today. It's not your fault. >> All right, so we got a motion seconded. Any discussion hearing? None. We'll take a vote. >> Jenny I. >> Scott I. >> Janet I. >> Ron I. Motion passes. Go item D. Engineers report. Ryan >> Ryan Blackmire consulting city engineer. Good evening mayor and councel. just going to mention three things. Um we're starting to work on the local road improvement program grant for Hornsby. Uh so we're pulling that together. We've got the team assembled. Um the solic it has to be submitted by December. So we've got a little bit of time, but anyway, we're we're starting to work on that. And then I was going to an update on the water appropriation permit. We're in the final queue. Uh there's two other uh appropriation permits they are currently reviewing. When they're completed with those, they'll be moving to ours. Uh it's my hope that we'll be able to report back at the next council meeting regarding that appropriation permit. So I think we're within two weeks of getting that completed and then also over the past couple of weeks completed a site plan and plat review for a development in the community. Um, so working with the assistant planner on that. With that, I'd stand for any questions the council may have. >> That Hornsby deal is I mean, you're getting ready for the Have we sent the paperwork we need into the state yet or? >> No, that's what he's working on. When When do we have to have that in? >> By December. >> Oh, >> yeah. We've got some time, but there's some information we have to assemble and we have to get letters of support. Those kind of things we need to pull together. So, >> okay. >> Be working on that. >> Anybody else have any questions for Brian? >> Hearing none, we'll move on to city attorney's report. Megan, >> Mr. Mayor, I have no update for you this evening, but am happy to answer any questions you all may have. >> Um, I don't have a question, but would you just uh let Bill know that we are on board for the legislative platforms because I don't I know he usually kind of drives that topic. I absolutely will. Thank you. >> Anybody have any questions for Megan? >> Thank you, Megan. We'll go on to the mayor and council's report. Jenny. >> Uh, this is Jenny. Um, Concrete had a watershed meeting um on Monday. Nothing major to uh to report there um beyond notice of a retirement. Um and then um obviously we had fall fest so update there. I did meet with uh some residents who uh presented at the planning commission meeting uh last week um just about an issue they're having uh relating to um requesting a variance for their lot or their lot width um and having some issues um with potentially trying to subdivide to their child. And so I did meet with them um and they are working with Eleanor to try to figure out what that math would look like um if they were to try to potentially work with some of their neighbors to um have the width um in order to be able to subdivide out. So um that is still in progress and I'll update you if I hear anything new. >> Thank you, Jenny. Scott, >> no report, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, >> Janet. >> Um this will be short and sweet. I just saw an email from Rice Creek WHED. They approved their budget and they are looking at a 0% levy increase for next year. So that's good news for all of us. >> That it. >> Yes. >> Right. Uh the only two things I got to report. We had the uh seniors in community center today. We had 10 of them there. Uh I'm sure this is going to work out once we get moving, but uh had that going on. And and secondly, I don't know if anybody watched the 11:00 Channel 11 news tonight. Um, veterary uh neurology clinic was on there. >> Oh, cool. >> And they're opening up on Monday at 7 a.m. September 29th will be their opening day. So, that was nice because they actually said Columbus. >> Hooray. Yay. >> So, that's >> So, when is the ribbon cutting? That's all I have. Uh, >> Ron, when is the ribbon cutting? >> Ribbon cutting is the second if I'm right. I still have to talk to some people on this because I I have a hard understanding. They uh the Chamber of Commerce and Forest Lake set it up. >> Correct. >> And um I just assume have people from our city, more of our people there. And we the mayor from Forest Lake. I don't know if he's coming or not, but I just think that uh there's an invitation and it was just given to me, I think, but I I really think some staff members should be there. Maybe Ellie, maybe uh I mean definitely Jack and maybe as many council members as we can. I don't know what everybody's opinion is on that, but it's 3:20. on the the 2nd is I think it's a Tuesday, but I think we got something going on that we got a workshop that night. >> No, our workshop's on the 7th. >> No, that's on the 1st 2. Well, I have to get this. Oh, no, there it is. It's on Thursday the 2nd. Mark that on your calendar at 3:20 p.m. >> So, it'd be nice if we all show up or whatever. And uh what's your opinion on that, Jack? Having I think Ellie did a lot of work on that, didn't she? >> You did. She assisted them in a lot of ways. So, she should definitely be there. >> I I I believe so. Along with Aaron and as many as we can. So, >> would you consider having Robin there, too? He was on the planning commission for that whole >> No, I don't know if he was. Was he? I don't think he was >> part of it for the end of it. >> No. Uh I think I mean that that was No, it was Lynn. I remember Lynn was the chair. >> Oh, I know Lynn was but Robin was on the planning commission. >> Uh yeah, I'm sure he was. >> I don't just a thought. >> Yeah, I'll talk to him about that. Anything else? Uh park board's report. Jack, you want to give that? I didn't make it. >> Okay. The parks board discussed uh the final input and revisions for the park master plan. Uh we had a conversation scheduled with Forest Lake fast pitch for continuation of the contributions for the dugouts. U they could not attend the meeting that will be carried over to the next one. They also decided on the color of the tennis/pickle ball courts and um >> well don't keep us in suspense. What was the answer? >> The answer is the exterior or the out- of-bounds area is going to be grass green and the interior part of the court play is going to be light blue. >> Sounds lovely. And uh that was we reviewed the budget for the parks and they were extremely happy and thankful for the support of the city council for the tennis court project and hopefully going forward with the playground project. Uh also it was discussed too that the trail issued to the trail restoration reconstruction of the existing trail would be pushed back a year and the extension would be pushed back a year further than that. And hopefully we'll know a little bit more about what our revenue flows are in that uh park land fund from park dedication fees or land sales to cover that project. So that was the things that we discussed at the parks board. >> We only have one more meeting this year, don't we? >> That's correct. >> We'll go on to the next one. Personnel committee Janet. >> Um it was a short and sweet meeting this week. So I think we heard that the um city clerk position is posted. Um Erin, you'll have to remind me how many applications you've received so far. Can't I can't answer that because they're coming in uh faster than I can print them off. >> Oh, hooray. That's >> We have a lot to screen. >> And when does it when does it close? >> First of beginning of October. >> I was going to say I thought like in a week. Yeah, >> October. >> Okay. So, stay tuned on that. Um and that was really pretty much that was pretty much it. >> Okay. Item number F is the planning commission report. I know that Rob is not here tonight, but I believe we all were at the planning commission report. So, >> we can bypass that. And as Jenny said, you followed up on one of the deals there. We go on to item number G, the big expensive one, the uh public works report by Jim here. >> We've covered public works already tonight, so I don't have any more questions. >> I' I've got a quick update. I had a call from Darwin Smith today and from Dave Rybeck. They were especially complimentary and grateful for the culvert replacement on Pine Street. Darwin said it lowered the water elevation in the ditch around his property by 3 ft. Uh Dave Rybeck said he was working with them too to do that replacement of the cover on 137th which is on the private portion of his road. and they both said to thank the council for all the help they'd given them in the past to get this done. >> That's great news. >> So, so I was actually down there when >> Oh, good. >> Construction was >> We wanted you down there. >> So, they they lowered it like 18 in. >> Yeah. >> And of course it rained the night before they were doing it. >> Mhm. and they put they call it sheep pile in to stop the water and the and one of the Dunaways was in there kind of guiding that sheet pile in and he was chest deep in water in there. So I mean with the rain that we got the night before and I mean it was there was water pouring through there when they were when they were done and they pulled that sheep pile out the next day and uh they said there was quite a lot of water moving through there. I have not been down there today, but I'm guessing it looks a lot different. >> So, the next pinch point, I think, is the prison, isn't it? Isn't that the next culvert that needed to be replaced? And I don't know if they've still they they've arm wrestled between the uh prison and the county about who's going to pay for that. But >> I think that's one. And then there's probably maybe a few others between 137th and that location too that probably need to be looked at just to make sure that they're set at the proper elevations or there's no maintenance needed to clean them out. So this is definitely going to be a vast improvement for the upstream section of this drainage. And um Darwin was very excited over the lower end of the water on his property. And ironically enough, if he's seen three feet in a matter of a day, if you give it a little bit more time, that water will just keep moving away. You know what I mean? Because it it takes a little bit of time to evacuate all that water because it's spread out over such a big area. >> Jenny, I have one more question. Um, I had a resident reach out that lives on Pine Street that they got a notice of a planned development in Lo Lakes at the Sod Farm and they were wondering if we had any updates on what impact that would have to Pine Street. And so I said I I mean I obviously knew the development was coming, but um I don't know if that's something we could potentially look at what that would look like for those residents. I I I'm not sure exactly what they're talking about, but I believe that is off of Main Street, which is where most of that stuff is, >> where that new roundabout is. And that that that >> stub that. >> So, basically, I think from from uh 23 to that roundabout, so all of the Rob I think it's Robinson. >> Yeah. >> On north and south. I don't know how much I don't know if they would >> It looked like there was an outlet on Pine. And so that's where that was the question because according to that map >> I can tell you it's fourth isn't it? >> That's the I haven't seen anything >> but my push is going to be that if they have an outlet there that whole road gets paved. >> Right. >> So >> because we're not going to play the development on gravel program. >> I can grab the map too and I'll just snap a picture. >> I'll reach out to Lo and see see what they know. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Is that it, Jim? That is it. >> Uh last item, city administrators report. >> I have nothing further to add. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jack. Go to item E, city council minutes. Go to number one, approval of the January 9th, 2025 regular meeting minutes, pages 26 through 40. >> I hope we're not in January, Mr. Mayor. >> July. >> I hope it's July. >> Oh, July. Otherwise, we're way behind. I mean, we're behind, but not way behind. >> So, this is these are all the edits that I submitted. >> Whatever you see in red was submitted for corrections. >> So, I'm comfortable with moving to approve the July 9th, 2025 uh regular meeting minutes um as uh with the edits represented in our packet. Is that is that your motion? >> That's a motion. >> Okay. >> Did I not say a motion? Sorry. >> No, you just said you would. Uh I can't remember. Anyway, >> I move. >> There you go. >> Janet moves. >> But now I need a second. >> Based on looking at this, this is Jenny and I second that. >> Okay. So, we have a motion on item number one, July 9th minutes. Any other discussion? Any questions? Having none, we'll take a vote. Janet I mean uh Jenny >> Jenny I. >> Uh Scott Nay. >> Janet I. >> Bon I. Go to number two. Approval of August 27th 2025 regular minute meeting minutes pages 41 through 47. Council, after uh reviewing the packet today, uh line six, uh I'm going to recommend we cross out special meeting. These are the minutes for the regular meeting. The special meeting is the next uh set of minutes. So that's the only additional correction other than those that are already noted in uh read in throughout the um uh set of minutes. Those are the corrections that were submitted to city staff. [Music] When did I I I didn't I was not aware that these were going to be in this packet. I didn't see them until I was looking through things tonight. So, I have not l I have not looked at these. >> Um Um, >> sorry if you sent them out earlier then I missed them. >> I I want to say I I guess I can't say for certain, but there are there are red corrections in this set of minutes that a council member I don't know which one sent to me and those corrections were made. Um, page 43 there's corrections. >> Yeah, I know. I'm just saying I I'm just saying I didn't I I didn't I didn't see these draft minutes. So, I'm not going I'll just abstain if we want to do a motion or >> do what? >> I'll abstain because I haven't read them. >> Well, Scott, I'll make the motion to approve the minutes from August 27th, 2025. >> Both of them? >> Well, if you want to do two and three together, we can. Yeah, I would >> I just didn't know which one you were moving to approve. >> Oh, the regular meeting is number two. >> Okay. >> With Aaron's noted change. >> Well, with Aaron's noted change. Yeah, the special meeting. Crossing out the special. Thank you. >> That seconded. >> This is Jenny. I second. >> So, the uh motion's on the floor been seconded. Any other questions? Not hearing any. Jenny >> Jenny I. >> Scott I. >> Janet abstains. >> Ron I put item number >> three approval of August 27th 2025 special meeting minutes pages 48 to 49. Again this was a very short meeting where we discussed the budget. Um, these minutes were sent out. There are some minor corrections uh in red in the packet. >> This is Jenny. I have no noted changes on the this special meeting. >> Scott, I'll make a motion to approve the August 27th, 2025 special meeting minutes. >> Jenny, I second. >> You have a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any questions, discussion? Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Jenny >> Jenny I. >> Scott I. >> Ron I. >> Janet abstain. >> Go to item number four, approval of September 10th, 2025 regular meeting minutes, pages 50 through 54. >> So I have a question on this cuz I sent you um edits and they weren't they aren't reflected in here. You did not make the packet, but there is a separate section of of minutes that were placed on the deis in front of you. This has all of the edits that were submitted to city staff. Uh when the packet was assembled, the wrong version of the minutes was put into the packet. However, the edits are in front of you on the separate addendum. And you can see that in blue, they are uh identified as the suggested edits. Oh, where is it? >> Okay, that let me get this straight. The second the updated one all the edits or just additional edits? >> These are all the edits that were submitted to city staff. >> These are all of them. >> Um, >> why did it look like there were more edits in the first version? >> No, it didn't look like there was. >> So, I I do know that I received edits from two council members. Um, the second set of edits were already identified by this first council member's suggestion. So, you may not see that duplication in there because it wasn't the same suggestion. >> I see there's some of the same. >> I don't see the one that you handed out. I'm sure it's in this pile somewhere, but I can't find it. Oh, that's right here. >> I'm looking at the wrong one. >> Yeah, it's like a >> I was looking for blue. There it is. >> Right here. >> That's the one I printed out at home, I think. Oh, no. You're right there. >> This is the one I printed out at home. Never mind. All right. This is Jenny. I haven't had time to review these minutes, so I will abstain from this. Anybody [Music] want to make a motion? >> I'm just checking to see that all the edits that I submitted were made. That's all. just take >> the the version that's in front of you was directly from your email PDF and then printed and put into the folder which should have made it to the packet but the original version got put in the packet instead. So this is what you see in front of you. The addendum is from your email. >> Okay, perfect. All right. So then I would move to approve the uh September 10th, 2025 regular meeting minutes um as reflected in the um edited version that was passed out tonight. This is Ron. I'll second it. We have a motion on the floor. It's been seconded. Any discussion hearing? None. We still have to start with you, Jenny. >> Jenny Mstein. >> Scott. Nay. >> You want to say why you're saying nay? That's just helpful for us to know. >> Uh, I just have a hard time agreeing with these meeting minutes. I for me it just goes beyond correcting minor smelling spelling and grammar errors. when we add a significant amount of content, which we've done here, I'm just not confident that we're being reflective of of what was actually said during the meeting is my concern. >> How do you become confident of that? >> By shortening up the meeting minutes and and not adding content, >> but if if the content has been added and it's been verified against the recording, does that make you confident? >> No. And my vote is my vote. >> No, I I just wanted to understand it. I'm not arguing with you about your vote. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's why >> this is Jenny. Can we go back to discussion on this? Can we >> Sure. >> Can Okay. So, I do have something to note because I if I go to lines 74 through 81. I do feel that some of this added content is I'm not trying to say filler, but if I look at and invited any council members who wish to join to contact him and and I know that that's important, but some of that I believe is subjective information as to what is important and is is that what you're trying to note, council member Wendell, that some of this is added information may be subjective. >> Well, I think that's what I just said. it may not be reflective of what was actually >> the actual content of the meeting. >> And if you want to call it, it could be subjective, I suppose. >> Right. And and so I think that's that's maybe the some of the frustration is that some of this really does seem a bit subjective in in what has been added versus what the original content was that was presented. And so I would agree with him that I I feel some of the original con context and content would have been sufficient. So, I think I mean that really was what Ron said, but the reason it got added, I added it was because there's been questions about, for instance, why I'm sitting in there with them. And I think this clarifies that any one of us could sit in there. It's whoever signs up to do it. So, that was a So, I don't think that's subjective. I think that that answers a question that's been raised. Um, and it documents what Ron actually did, which was extend the invitation to any of us to join him. In terms of the other the most of the other corrections were corrections that were related to the information that was that was presented. So there was some mis there were some misqus in the st um sunrise river um that I corrected. There was uh a correction to what acid had requested of us um in terms of the pole pads. They asked us to pass a resolution, which they did, and we decided not to. But that's the correction that I made. On page 406, there was a correction to the um dollar value that was in the preliminary budget. That was actually something that Jack called in his report. It just didn't make it in here correctly. >> Um and you know, we can certainly strike the questions related to the um budget. I had each of us sort of the main questions that each of us raised. So, I was trying to be reflective of what concerns each of us had, but I don't care if we take those out. The rest of it is just really corrections to the information. >> Do we want to adjust it now? >> I I want to get it done. I mean, I spent a lot of time going through this so that we could approve the ding minutes for a change. So, and I and I don't know how to address your concern because what you call subjective, I would not agree with that. And I, you know, again, if if I'm not sure how to reach a a resolution on that, Scott, I want to I just don't know how to do it. I I I I I think I've said it several times during several meetings that I think these uh get very lengthy and the more length you get into it, the more interpretations you can start picking apart. I maybe we should leave this discussion till our next meeting and think about where we want to go on these minutes. I I I I I'm know we me and you respectively have discussed these and I I I don't know if I'm wrong or whatever the rest of you can correct me but I think they get too long and I think we have to cut them down and I think we've even said it Janet on some of these meetings that these minutes we got to summarize them or get to a a deal where we're not having to back in it. >> Mayor, can I make a suggestion? So, first of all, we we're in the middle of a vote. >> Oh, yeah. >> Now, what do we do if we want to make a different motion? Can we or do we all have to vote nay and then somebody make a motion to not approve them or deny them, but to >> Well, I mean, we we voted on the motion and it didn't it did it failed because we had a nay and an obsession. >> I don't think we completed. No, we didn't complete it. No, >> no, I made the motion. >> Yes. >> And there was a second by you and you abained and you said no. >> Yeah, >> but the other two have not voted, but my understanding is that >> it's a fail anyway. >> No, I think an abstension, if I'm not mistaken, according to Robert's rules, is an affirmative. >> Yeah. >> And so it would it would pass. >> Okay. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Oh, two to one with one abstaining is >> I didn't know that. I learned something. >> I always thought it went the other way. >> That's all right. So yeah, we can finish it if you want. >> Let's finish. >> But but if you I mean if you wanted to reopen discussion as the presiding officer, that's certainly you're certainly welcome to do that. If someone wants to make another motion to amend the original motion, you can make this as muddy as you want to be. >> Yeah. >> Well, if you want to just vote it out and be done. >> Why don't you just finish voting? Then we can We're putting the cart before the horse now. My apologies. >> That's right. No, Jenny had made the motion. She wanted to open it up for discussion. We open up discussion, >> but we'll end the the vote then. >> Well, you you two still need to vote. >> So, I vote a I vote I >> I So, the motion passes. All right. We'll bring that up at another meeting. We seem to have a lot of them. Okay. Now, we'll go on to uh item F, announcements. Reminders PTOAC Street Reconstruction Project tomorrow, September 25th, 2025, 5 to 7:00 p.m. I did find out today that letters did go out to everybody in the area. >> Oh, good. >> So, uh, that the second item is fire board meeting September 25, 2025 at 5:00 p.m., not 6 p.m. 5:00 p.m. Force Lake Police Department. Uh, third item, Joint Council Planning Commission meeting, October 1st, 2025 at 6 p.m. City Council work meeting October 7th, 2025 at 5:30 p.m. City Council regular meeting October 8th, 2025 at 6 p.m. and the EDA special meeting October 14th, 2025 at 4 pm. >> Say question the reconstruction project meeting. This is probably stupid question, but that's going to be in the senior room community center. >> Yes. And and me and Jack won't be there in the beginning, but we'll make it later, like about six. We got another meeting we got to go to. >> Copy that. >> Any other comments, questions? Anybody want to make a motion on adjournment? >> Mr. Scott, I'll make a motion to adjourn. >> This is Jenny. I second. And we'll take a vote. Jenny, >> Jenny, I, >> Scott, I, >> Janet, I, >> and Ron I. The meeting >> ends at 7:57. [Music]