All right, welcome everyone. We're going to be meeting at 6 o'clock. We're going to get started. Uh Jolene, if you would please take roll call. >> Council members Ericson >> here. >> Larson here. >> Miller >> here. >> Valento here. >> Mayor Roberts >> here. And if you're able, please join us in the pledge of allegiance. Stand. To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Our first uh item here, the awards and presentations. We do not have any of those this evening. The second or the sixth item here is open air. Oh, >> number four. >> Sorry. Um, we need to uh approve tonight's agenda. So, is anyone interested in making a motion? >> Also move. >> I'll second. >> Motion to second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. We have an agenda. All right. So, no awards or presentations and then we'll go to open forum. Uh, this is an opportunity for anyone to speak. Come up and speak to any city related matter. keep your uh comments relatively brief to around three minutes. When you approach the podium, please state your name and address. And the first person we have this evening is Don Ship. And >> Mr. Mayor, would you want to uh just clarify that this is not the time to address the budget. >> Correct. Um so you have your cho I guess you have a choice. If you wanted to speak to the budget, you can do it during this open forum. We do have a a time once we after the after we have the presentation of the budget uh to speak at that point as well. >> Uh my official address is Wills Point, Texas. Uh my name is Donald E. Ship. My wife and I own and operate a hanger at the Forest Lake Airport. For the last 42 years, I've been a licensed commercial pilot, certified flight instructor, and airline transport pilot. I've accumulated over 30,000 hours of flight time. All that I do is visit airports for a living. Professional pilots follow rules or they lose their job. The city of Forest Lake has violated hanger owner contracts. In 2016, MDOT Aeronautics offered the city of Forest Lake a grant of 90% funding in order to pave the grass runway. Certain city council members wanted hangar owners to help pay for the project. Ultimately, the airport commission recommended an extra fee scheduled to be paid by hangar owners. The city council adopted it. The problem, it was a contract violation. Every year since 2016, the city of Forest Lake has been advised about a contract violation that occurred between the years of 2016 and 2020. Some people only paid for certain years. Their outstanding balances were removed. Those hangar owners who paid the extra fee for those four years were never repaid. The net effect is that the city has now charged certain hangar owners differently. That is a clear case of discrimination. Discrimination by municipalities is illegal. Minot. Aeronautics has now offered a 90% grant to add 300 ft of paved surface to the existing runway. If exercised, the 10% investment would reap a 900% return on investment. 300 ft of additional paved surface adds safety, utility, and actually reduces total noise around the airport. Hangar owners pay rent on a square footage basis, and the rent increases may rise to the limits of the consumer price index. At the recent airport commission meeting, there was talk about charging hanger owners additionally other than using the consumer price index. The contract clearly states, "Rent adjustment shall be reasonable. An increase in rates based upon the consumer price index shall be considered reasonable. Hangar owners have no control over operating expenses at the airport. Hangar owners simply lease the land for their hangers at the public airport. All private hangers at the Forest Lake airport were constructed at absolutely no cost for the city. Hangar owners pay rent and property taxes annually. I recommend taking advantage of the 90% grant. I recommend operating with the limits within the limits of the ground lease contracts. I highly encourage you to read the ground lease contracts for the airport. Focus on the area of rent. I'm willing to help the city of Forest Lake any way that I can. Good business is a win-win for all participants. If the city of Forest Lake follows all of the rules, unity will be restored. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Next up, Gary Lee. I'm Gary Lee and uh I'm officially in live in a suburb of of Forest Lake called Columbus. Anyway, thanks for your time tonight and u I represent Act on Alzheimer's Lakes area tonight and uh we are in an organization that started about 10 years ago and our purpose is to educate the Forest Lake community and primarily the business community um about the u dementia and the effects that it would have on your customers and how to u treat the customers. And we started with a business um survey about 10 years ago and uh that told us that there was a real lack of information and education, knowledge about dementia within the city and within the businesses. And so that's why we took that that direction and and began uh doing educational sessions. We did videos showing uh examples of how to treat them and that type of thing. And um however um much of the education falls on deaf ears unless you have a personal experience with dementia. But what's happening in today's world is that there's a larger and larger number of uh dementia patients that don't want to just stay home. They want to go out in the community. And so the community needs to be educated about them. But I'm I'm guessing that the majority of the people here um either know a friend who had dementia, a family member that had dementia, um or just a a community member that had dementia and probably didn't know how to react to it. So um with these things in mind, our organization has partnered with an organization called Family Means and U. Jenny West is here. they are working actively to expand their services within Forest Lake. So, I'll turn it over to her and let her explain those things. Thank you, Gary. Uh, my name is Jenny West. I'm the community educator at Family Means in our caregiving and aging department. Family Means is located in Stillwater. However, we serve all of Washington County. Um and for several years we've been working on trying to bring services um and exposure around dementia up into the Forest Lake area. Um about 2018 we started a a memory cafe in Hugo. Um and this past February we partnered with the YMCA and are offering a group respit for individuals who have been diagnosed with um any kind of of a dementia diagnosis. and they meet every Tuesday from noon to 4 um at the Y and um we have one that's working we're it's we have one developed in Still Water and now we're branching up into Forest Lake um because we see that the drive even down to Stillwater is even long um and so we family means are working with um Gary and the act on offering dementia friendly at work trainings to get that education around dementia um out into the public and to start having those conversations. So, we appreciate that opportunity to bring that education um up here in Portland. >> And it's intended for businesses, not only businesses, but churches, other organizations, whether it be the Lions or the Masons or whatever to to invite Jenny to participate. and she would come to to a business meeting or a training session that your employees would have or whatever just to to teach um more about it so that all of the as many as we can for lake residents have a better understanding of what to do when you're interacting with someone with dementia. >> So, she's available. >> Great. Thank Thank you. Uh Dean Lopez mentioned standard city business. I don't know if you are talking towards the budget or if you want to speak now. It's up to you. >> Um >> you're up there. You must >> Yes. And no. Um hi, my name is Dean Lopez. I lived in well city of Forest Lake now since 1970 where it used to be the township, you know, Forest Lake Township. And I've seen a lot of changes, but there's always one problem that keeps coming up. Every time something has to be done, we're always the last to get any kind of service. I'll give you guys a hint. When you guys said I'm taxing everybody for the storm sewers, okay? Ask him why I'm getting taxed for storm sewer. Well, storm sewers the water runoff. I go, "My water can't run off." And you guys goes, "Why?" Because you guys filled in the ditch. It just lays on the ground. Couple years later, you guys came out digged the ditch. I remember one time where the road between the two little lakes washed out. Forest Lake did their one side. Yugo didn't do their side. Um we got a neighbor that was changing the road grade. Um called up about that and they said and plowing our road because only two people in Forest Lake that live on that side and the other three's on on Yugo. And I came up to Forest Lake here and you guys told me I'm you have a contract with Yugle, so I got to go talk to them. And I'm going, well, I pay my taxes in Forest Lake, not Yugle. And and me and the other neighbors, we had to go straighten out that deal. And then they put the wrong gravel on the road and they had to change that. We had to fight that. Um they would plow our ditches, you know, cut the grass and we had to argue about that. But then um then you guys try to charge me for a street light that I didn't have. It was on Yugoslide. It was a private farm light. It just seems that I keep getting taxed for everything, but I don't get the goddamn Excuse me. I don't get the service for it. And I'm just And you guys tell me I can't do this with my land, can't do that. Um you had a I was going to replace a fence line. Then he said I had to get a permit. And I go, "So you okay it?" I say if I hit the fence here, you okay it then I'm legal. Then you guys, oh no, if it ain't, you know, we're just giving you the permit. We're not saying it's legal or not. And I'm going, but yet you guys want to hit me with a fee. Okay, I can see having a fee for some things, but I really don't get the no benefits for anything that I do here. You know, I got 27 acres. Um, can't divide it. You want this? And you say, "Well, I'm in for like why can't I do city lots then or build three or four houses?" Oh, we got you a lot of culture now. And you know, it just keeps like I got the land, but I can't do anything with it. Not that I want to develop it. I like it the way it is, but it always seems like I can't do anything or this, but then you guys will let developer build cluster of houses. But I'm just trying to say what's the difference if I wanted to do a cluster of houses on my land. Point I'm trying to make it seems like I'm paying taxes here, but sol I'm getting it back is I can't do this, I can't do that. You know, because I try to build a little walk walk on little bridge over a little stream that I have and right away they're up there, I can't have it. I go, well, this guy's blocking a main stream where you can take a boat through. It was all right for them. And this is unfort you know. I just don't get why if I have the land you guys want tax for me for this that why can't I just do stuff on my land like I wanted to build three houses on that 27 acres. Why can't it be more taxes for you guys? But the main point is every time there's an issue in this little road here, anything goes wrong, you guys may raise the taxes up quick, but the service down there is really bad. Now lately, it's been getting a lot better. We got new neighbors down there, and I told him, "Yeah, well, the neighbor was trying to, you know, get the crown in the road." So, well, he wanted that flat and going the other way so it didn't go towards his house. So I guess they watching him to find them for the road if he change it again. But seems like, you know, my taxes are getting paid in Forest Lake every time I had an issue. City of Forest Lake won't do anything. I had to go fight it down and then you go all the time and you guys have a deal with them. our road that we have. Um, my brother was a quatlegic, so I always needed them roads clean quick, you know, after heavy snow and usually I had to go through my skid loader and make a path to get my van out of there if I had if I had to take them anywhere. And I'm just saying I'm but I'm going to be tax here in Forest Lake. I should get the same service that Forest Lake residents are getting and I shouldn't have to go see why Ule's not getting this road plow. But through the years now, you know, it's a lot better, you know. But I'm just saying um that little piece of area of that road that when you got two residents on there that's in Forest Lake and the other three on the Yugle side. Um, we kind of get missed a lot there, you know, like it's always the last road to get plowed. I mean, it is getting plowed now, but I'm just saying it's always the last last of the road to get upgrade. Um, I had to go argue about them that, hey, if Forest if Forest Lake is cutting the ditch grass, I'm going to say twice a year. I go, I expect to get it cut twice a year, too, because I'm paying the taxes for it. And I know for a while they weren't doing it, but I'm just saying, you know, then I got the how you're raising my taxes up again. I'm going what benefits I'm getting from you guys. You know, I'm not getting any benefits, but I'm getting a lot of headaches from you guys. Like I said, I've been here since 1970 and trying to pass the farm on to my nephews and all that. But yeah, there's just a lot of problems in that deal. And now I see you guys raise my taxes up again 195. I'm just trying to see what benefits I'm really getting from all this. You know, I mean, yeah, you know, you got to raise taxes. I give you guys that. But, um, I just can't see where it's benefiting me as a whole or through the years. You know, I could talk for hours about all the stuff I seen and how like ever since I went from the township to the city, how much less we got for being into the city than what the township was. So, I just want to kind of give you guys a think a little bit about why is this area so overlooked? You know, um you know, like I said, I'm just using a storm sewers, you know, charge me for storm sewers or am I on my land? You know, if I did tell them that you guys buried a ditch, you guys wouldn't have done anything about it. I don't know if that was you go to Forest Lake and I was trying to tell them the grade of the ditch and they go, "No, I go go three feet down there's a culvert underneath our driveway." They go, "How you know that?" I was a young man when they fitted in and they dug down there. Oh my gosh, there's a culvert. I go, "That was the grade of the ditch that you guys buried." You know, so I'm just kind of ticked off that, you know, you're raising my taxes again. And all through the years, I see no benefits to it. Maybe you guys can explain it to me on your budget and all that, but I just want you guys to back your mind, take notes, you know, go, why is this area here have so much problem? Because it's at the edge of everybody's border. I got you Forest Lake in Scandia, you know, so it's kind of like the farthest corner, you know, mile from Big Marine Lake there, you know. It's just at the edge of everything. I would like to have you guys uh pay a little bit more attention to that little section, you know, because at one time we had three handicapped people living in that area. You know, now they're all gone. But I'm just saying I would like to have you guys pay a little bit more attention in that little strip and go, "Hey, you know, yeah, it's small, maybe a mile. It's only two forest lake people that live there, but just shared with you go. We shouldn't have to go fighting to see when the road's going to get plowed, if they're going to fix that. How about that neighbor's out there with his tractor changing the road grade? I shouldn't have to go take pictures of it. I'm going, why should I have to take pictures where you come down and see what the guy's doing? So, I just wanted to kind of bring that up to you guys. But on this section on that 170 where I'm on through the years all this problem I've been having not just me but everybody else there but you know and I'm just going now you're raising my taxes up for the city $195. I'm going what for? Because I haven't seen no advantage from going from the township to the city. So I saw the taxes went up when it went for the city from the township and be honest fright honest with you I get less service now being because it's the city of forest lake than it was the township you know and that's basically it you know because I'm just say I'm just getting tired of this area getting overlooked all the time and maybe we can have it where the forest lake responsible for that part of the road. I don't know because you turn right off to the side of us all the time. just want to get in the back of your heads that hey, there's a might be a little area that we we might have to take a look into and see what's going on. >> So, >> but I, you know, I will say that it's a lot better than it was before, but it took a long time to get it that way. >> Well, Mr. Lopez, I appreciate you coming this evening. Um, maybe Administrator Stats and maybe staff could reach out and get some clarification on some of these concerns and we can address them. >> Okay. Well, thank you for your time. >> Yeah, thanks for coming this evening. Uh Naen Cedarholm. Uh Naen, do you want to speak now or to the whether when the uh the hearing for the taxes? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Great. Anyone else interested in coming up this evening that just talk non- tax or budget? We'll have that opportunity afterwards or a little later. All right. So, we have council. We have a consent agenda in front of us. Is it? >> And Mr. Mayor, if I could interject real quickly here, um, as you noted uh, over the um, since the original agenda came out, we did add a couple of items. U, one of those was item uh, O and it was a consultant contract with McDonald Hopkins for cyber security. I want to note that we're adding an additional um, contract. In my memo, I said that McDonald Hopkins would have a subcontractor that would do some of the technical work. Um I was incorrect in that and that they would like to contract directly with us and that firm is uh Erite is how you pronounce it and it's in front of you tonight. Um it's a contract that's been vetted through the League of Minnesota Cities League is covering our costs on this and so I would ask that that item um simply reflect that the consultant contract will be with McDonald Hopkins and Erate. So there'll be two different contracts there. >> Thank you. All right, with that, anyone willing to make a motion to approve tonight's consent agenda? >> I'll make a motion to approve consent agendum agenda items 7 A through 7 Q. >> Motion is there second? >> I'll second it. >> Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. We have our consent agenda. All right. Item 8A will be the beginning of our regular agenda. uh with the first item is a truth and taxation hearing, but we are going to have our finance director, Ellie Larkin, go through uh this evening's uh this year's budget. >> As Ellie approaches the podium here to present, I'll just kind of set us up a little bit. What Ellie is going to go through is um partly required by statute. So, some of the things that are in her presentation are things that state statute requires us to cover tonight. So, if you're wondering about some of the elements, um that might be where they're coming from. And what she's going to walk us through is both what the preliminary budget that was adopted or the preliminary levy that you adopted in September and then what our current proposal is and that's based on all the workshops we've had and um some of the discussions we've had since September to um in an effort to lower that final levy. Reminding us all that uh the preliminary levy sets the high bar. So we cannot go above that tonight. We can only lower that um amount. So again, you'll see two presentations or two um scenarios tonight. You'll see the 12.59% that was adopted in September and you'll see the kind of current uh staff and council proposal at 7.9%. So um what everyone's mailing was based on was the 12.59. So if um as the gentleman mentioned earlier, he had a dollar amount in that he saw on a on a statement that is what was that that number was based off the September number. So from there, I'll let you take it over for me. >> Thanks. Thanks. >> Good evening, mayor, council members, and citizens of Forest Lake. Um, for those of you who don't know me, my name is Ellie Larkin. I am the finance director here with the city. As Mark mentioned, some of the things we will be going through tonight are requirements by the state, and that will include a summary of the 2026 budget, a proposed levy, and then provide an provide an opportunity for public comment. This comment will happen once the presentation is completed. So, as our citizens walked in, you received a packet that really walked through in detail the budget timeline. And so, with the creation of a budget, the council adopts a schedule in April. And so, through that, there has been numerous meetings, numerous guidance provided from both council and residents about where they would like the direction of the budget to go to. We sought input through workshops and meetings along with opening up a budget survey to the public. A bulk of those survey responses talked a lot about how public safety is a top priority for our community. And you will see that reflected as we walk through this budget. So when we talk about a levy, it's important to break down that that property levy is the tax dollars the city collects to provide the essential functions that serve each one of our residents. This includes standard items such as safety, streets, parks, and public safety. Then that levy is divided amongst properties. Each property pays the share based on the taxable value and the rate of their class. This then is broken down additionally through residents, through community development, through other dwellings. So, apartment complexes have a different rate than a standard city home. And that's what goes into the breakdown of what your levy looks like. And as you'll see with most cities, as your population increases, your levy will also then increase with it because the amount of service you need to provide also then does increase. And so, as Mark mentioned, that preliminary levy that came out on your tax statement was addressed at 12.59%. This reflects an average home value increase of $100 $17,526 or a monthly increase of 1460. It is important to note that since those property statements have went out um we've had numerous meetings and conversations as mentioned previously and now we are going to walk through what is called the proposed levy. >> Just on that that previous slide de uh just to be clear that that bullet there that says yearly home average value increase that's the increase in taxes on the average value home. So that's not the increase of the value of the home that's the value or that's the increase in taxes on that home. Just to be clear about that. >> And then when we look at it as our proposed levy at 7.9%, the average home value increase for the portion of property taxes you would pay would be $102.84 or a monthly increase of $857. And so as we looked at those two slides, you saw that those charts had a couple different items of what was included and what wasn't included. And to start the levy, we started at that 12.59% and this included a deputy fire chief, a patrol sergeant, two additional patrol officers, a police admin assistant, and a public works position along with standard increases to election inflation, and to support our Northshore Trail Bond. The city sees inflation a lot, like all of our residents do. So that inflation comes with utilities and just the standard cost of doing business. The things that really then start to play in what offsets the levy would be that general fund contribution. And so when we look at that bottom part of this chart, what it what is labeled as the offset to general fund contributions, these would be the additional revenue associated with as the top part of the chart reflects expenses. And so then as you walk across the chart, you'll see the next option that we presented and received feedback on was a levy set at 12.25%. and through conversation. The biggest change here is the removal of the patrol sergeant. This is not removing a sergeant that is currently in place. However, just not adding an additional one. This also includes keeping the deputy fire chief, our patrol officers, a police admin assistant along with a public works position, our standard expenses, and then this also reflects an increase to franchise fees to offset the cost of the general levy. And then as we continue to work our way through our chart, you will see that those check marks turn into half circles with an asterct for lack of a better description that reflects staff, those new positions starting February 1st versus starting one one. And this then allows us to not have to pay the cost of the staff for the entire year, allowing us to have additional cost savings. And then as we continue to work through the chart, you will see the bottom two line items are labeled as roll back capital equipment fund and use of the 2025 surplus to offset the levy. With both of these options included, we are able to bring the levy down to 7.9%. With the surplus of the 2025 budget offsetting the cost of the 2026 budget, so where does that tax levy go? And so when we break it down, we see that 30 p 3 36% of your tax levy go this includes police, fire and building inspections. Forest Lake fire department receives 500 calls a year. Our police department takes roughly 200 call two 20,000 calls a year and building expens buildings conduct approximately 300 3,500 reviews a year. When we look at what administration makes up, that includes managing all communications through the city, maintaining public records, supporting the su city's human resources, IT support, liaison between the staff, the council, and the citizens along with maintaining and managing the city's budgets, supporting the Forest Lake airport, and management of the senior center. And then when we look at that 7% for public works and 6% for parks, they maintain 130 miles of roads and sidewalks. That includes snow plowing, sweeping, and pothole patching. Maintain 23 parks, 13 ball fields, 11 miles of trails, three ice rinks, and maintain all of the city buildings. They also support the city in arts in the park, Fourth of July, hometown holiday, and coordinate many other and activi many other activities and events. Economic development works to improve economic livelihood for all, provide long range planning, development vision, and policy guidance, and they develop, administer, and enforce city code throughout the city. And then the 17% goes to support Forest Lakes's outstanding debt and bond that have already been issued along with capital expenses to support park dedication, capital improvement, capital equipment, and our building maintenance fund along with 1% going to EDA. So, what does that all actually add up to? So, this is a final overview of what the proposed property levy would look like. You can see as we previously walked through um a bulk of those expenses, so our public safety dollars, our administration dollars all go to support our general fund. You can see that is the largest budget driver the city has along with support for park dedication, capital improvement, capital equipment, an EDA fund, building m and a building maintenance fund along with our debt service. That brings our total levy that we would seek approval for to $17.7 million with the adjustment of fiscal disparity bringing the levy impact to $16.13 million. So the major changes that we are seeing within our 2026 budget as compared to our 2025 budget is we are looking at increased revenues for franchise fees, police state aid, standard city fees and permits and the general property tax. And for expenses, we are seeing increases across fire, police, and park maintenance. These these increases go to support staff. And so, as Mark mentioned earlier when we talked about what that impact has on a standard home or a standard individual in Forest Lake, that top value of this chart reflects the current cost of a standard home. So, that 390K. And so when we work our way through a chart, the original levy, as previously discussed at that 12.59% showed a yearly increase to property taxes of $17,526. But through meetings, discussion, and public comment, staff is proposing a levy increase of 7.9% or an annual increase of $102.88 or a monthly increase of $887. With that being said, property tax refund programs are available to all residents of the state of Minnesota. There are two major programs for refunds. These include regular property tax refunds through the circuit breaker or specially property or specially property tax refunds. And more information can be found on this at either our forest lake website or at the department of revenue. and they have information where you can call and they have certain filing deadlines if that is an option. That is just an option available to residents. And so, Mr. Mayor, the next steps would be opening it up to public feedback and to a public comment period. >> Thank you, Ellie. All right. At 6:32, we're going to open up the uh public hearing on tax and taxation and um the first person that we have is there another list uh Jolene for Okay, if you did come in after we'd already had this sheet up, you're more than welcome to come up. The first one on the original list was Naen Cedarum. >> Good evening. Thank you. Um, we of course got our proposed taxes for this for next year and um, I guess our question would be um, who really uh, figures the value of our home and who decides on that? >> You want to weigh on, >> Mr. Mayor? If you'd like me to respond. >> Um, so the there's sort of a separate hearing held each year um, in terms of valuation and so um, I believe it's in I want to say May. We hold our um our local board of appeal and equalization meetings in April of each year. >> So um each year you'll get a sort of a proposed valuation set by the appraiser and there's a hearing to come and um debate whether or not that valuation is there. Once that valuation is set, this process to um set the taxes based on is only based on that valuation. And so tonight's um hearing is not say we can't discuss it, but it's not really at that issue today. We can't change that value tonight. >> But Mr. Mayor, that is established by a county assessor. Correct. >> Uh yes, the the county, but the county is acting on our behalf. So, some cities do have a private assessor, but it is it's a standard practice across the board. And then the county uh still oversees that even when when you have a private assessor. I believe we do use the county for that service. So, >> okay. So, how can I contact somebody about that in April? >> St. staff. Mr. Mayor, can certainly um get residents in touch with the right folks there. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> I can just call and find out. >> Yeah. And so my experience and the council here when you do have these it's it's a one-on-one. You sit down with a council member and a member of the uh county staff and go through the evaluation. In a number of cases, they're they're willing to adjust that. Uh so >> to be clear though, they would not be addressing this year's >> correct. It's for next Yes. For for next year. Yes. Yes, it would be for 27. >> Yes, taxes payable in 27. >> So when um Okay, I understand that. And but um so I missed the time frame on this for this coming year, per se. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um it's just that there's a couple there's in our neighborhood, it's really diverse. We have newer homes, older homes, and um across the years, we have one of the older home oldest homes. It's going to be 100 years old next year. and but there's a new house that has quite a the value is a lot less and less taxes. So if um we have an issue about this then I need to wait till next year >> till April that would reflected on your 27 taxes. >> Yeah. This coming April to talk about the 27. >> Yes. >> Okay. That's all I had to say. Thank you for your time. >> Good seeing you. Thanks for coming. >> That's all we have signed up. Anyone else uh want to come up and speak on this year's budget? >> I got a couple questions. >> Sure. And if if you would again just state your name and address for the record. >> My name is Dean Multz once again at 166 180th Street North Forest Lake. And talking about the budget, I've just got a one a couple things I want to know. Um when you do the budget you guys and that budget is like ensuring all the vehicles that the city has and all that and insurance all that's included in the budget. Okay. So sounds like you're nodding. So that is and then I'm just throwing this hypothetically out to you. So like how many people that we got from the city that use the city vehicles take them home like police cars and all that. Is there a number like how many people are taking their vehicles home where we're paying for them but yet they're driving them home to from and to work? Is there any kind of number on that? >> Yeah, I I to my knowledge our police chiefs and our public works director I think that's that's about it. And >> yeah, there is a a stipen in my contract for a vehicle allowance. You don't necessarily pay for my vehicle, but I do have a vehicle allowance in my contract. Not aware of any other >> Okay. I I just wanted to find out, you know, that. But I got one other question to ask you guys. So, when they take a city vehicle home that say city owns, they're paying insurance on it. And just say for some reason, I'm not slamming or criticizing anybody. I'm using this hypothetically because it could happen. I'm not saying it is. But say that um I'll just use myself for example. Say, "Oh, I'm in the city blah blah. I get a car to take home and I go on out of Bender, get in a big accident, injured, maybe kill somebody. So, is the city liable for that now since they're in the city vehicle and you're having that city employee driving that vehicle or is that covered on a different way? I'm just kind of wondering about that. You know, what's the answer to that? >> Let our attorney uh Johnson answer that. >> Thank you, your honor. council in a situation where an employee is not engaged in their job, right? So they are not actively operating as a police officer or firefighter or whomever and they are in a a police in this example in a police vehicle in your example they are doing something where they cause an accident that is not a a liability of the cities. That would be a personal liability for that individual. >> But don't we have the vehicle insurance not the driver? Because you know, you got to have insurance on the vehicle and it's going to go and I know insurance because I was going to be a guy agent. They're going to go after that car who has the biggest policy >> and it's going to come back to the vehicle if you if especially if it's a city vehicle that's coming back. >> We the city has the the benefit of having immunity in those situations, right? There are certain laws that would prevent that individual from being able to sue the city. No, I was just wondering how how how that go if if that was to happen if >> if there was something to >> keep a clause from that happening. >> Correct. Yeah, we would we have a have governmental immunity essentially. >> Okay. I was just kind of wondering how does that work when you see vehicles going from one thing another if something was like to happen um >> stuck for. >> And to be clear, I mean these are individuals that are really on call almost 247. So they have to, you know, show up for major events, uh, police, fire, our public works if something goes wrong there, storm. So that they have to be, they're really on call almost 24/7. So that's why those vehicles are allowed to them so they can get back up here and have the equipment. >> Oh, no. I was just kind of curious um what happens if something like that happened because um I think in Wisconsin they had a thing where deputy or chief of police or there was drinking and all that and had some kind of accident. You know, I was just kind of wondering what happens to when that does happen. >> Just make sure I didn't say nobody here or anything. You know, I'm just I was just kind of curious if if the city would be liable for anything like that. >> Yeah. And I think what uh Mr. Lopez, when staff reaches out, if you have any of those specific individual questions on certain situations, we they'd be able to help you out. Those >> No, but um she answered my question. I was just kind of wondering about that. How does that go? What? Well, once again, thank you for your time. >> Yeah. Thank you. So, I just want to thank you >> to state your name and address, please. >> Oh, I do. Okay. I'm Blake's wife, the mayor's wife, Siobhan Roberts at 211018 Caroline Court. And just listening to Jacob Fry asking for a $46,000 raise to make $187,000 in Blake gives every day to the city and he is in our best interest. So everyone who's on staff that gets paid, thank you. But when you guys do this, it's as a just out of your heart. >> It's very appreciated. >> It's a labor of love. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Anyone else would like to speak tonight? Come up. State your name, address. >> My name is John Waller. I'm the Washington County Rice Peak Watershed District Manager. And annually I come up here to visit you and talk about taxes. And so this year um Bryce Creek will not be raising any of the taxes. Uh will be flat. Um basically we're going to spend uh $9 million tax for $6 million and we'll have $14 million at the 31st of this month. That magic trick is performed because we can dip into another tax uh called the grants and clean water funds. And so u a good deal of our monies uh we put into in the plan our water management plan project. We tax for that project and we also apply for a grant for it if it qualifies and we receive the grant money kind of have a a surplus Uh an example of this would be the uh funds that we granted to the city of Forest Lake for the west side of Clear Lake and that took many many years and of course that money had been taxed some years ago sat in the bank and we collect a little interest but this year we'll have no increase in our taxes. Last year I think if you took a look at your Washington County has it itemized not all the counties do or Ramsey for example doesn't. And um you'd see there might been a slight dis decrease of a couple of dollars. So, that's pretty much where we're at. Is there anything that uh you folks want me to take back to the watershed managers? I'll be glad to be your messenger. And uh also on Wednesday at 10 o'clock over in New Brighton in the community center will be our semianual meeting with our partners, the cities and the counties. So, your staff usually comes. Mark is come for many many years and uh always is he's not shy. That's good. >> Well well thank you Mr. Roller for your service on the watershed and um uh you know I appreciate the the no increase. uh maybe you could suggest that or give some advice to the other wershed in this city because uh that is extreme extremely I think they were proposing a 23% so increase >> uh well let me check here uh we did have down at the county every year Mr. mayor, you know, the watershed districts are invited to come down and go to a workshop with the with the um county board and u Rice Creek was um asked how we perform this magic trick of spending $9 million with only three uh taxing uh six and we don't borrow any money by the way at all. So u we had to explain that but alas it was not there was another watershed district who had to explain the same situation but alas it was not the one forest lake. So >> thank you very much for your help and uh good night. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Great. Anyone else like to come up? >> Hello, my name is Jamie Dutchman. I live at 56 7th Street Northwest. Uh I have a few questions and and maybe a few bones to pick. I'll start with the questions. Uh two years ago, I'm going use approximate numbers. Uh two years ago, our budget was about $12.6 million for the city of Forest Lake. If I remember correctly, there was a $500,000 line item in our budget for park dedication. At that time, it was different mayor, previous mayor, but I asked at the budget meeting, where's a half million dollars for park dedication? They said, "Well, it's in the 10-year plan." I looked on the internet. I looked on our Forest Lake website. Could not find that plan. Last year, we had $350,000. Does that sound right? As park dedication. And now this proposal for the next year is $415,000. That's $1.2 million for a park dedication I still can't find. That's a lot of money. And you know, we're all pretty much working class from this area. That's a lot of money. That's just for a park dedication. On top of that, our according to the graph that was on the TV earlier, our population has gone up 08 something like that. It's not a whole lot more than it was two years ago, but we're talking about a three half4 million increase in the yearly budget. That's a huge number. 12.6%. Is that was that the number? It's on the bottom of the page. I should have borrowed it. That's a lot. And that doesn't include the proposal for new public works building that was possibly $50 million, four times our annual budget. You guys are spending money like the trees on Broadway. They look great, but they're going to die just like the ones before them did because they get salt on them everywhere. That was an $800,000 total project. You guys are spending our money so fast. And sometimes you got to the cost of our taking care of our police officers, our fire department, the equipment. I understand that those are expenses we don't like to pay, but we all understand and we can get behind that. But you guys are just What's $1.2 million going to do for another park? I just heard 23 parks. It's just going to increase more of our expenditures to keep maintaining another park. I still don't know where it is. Can any of you tell me where the next park dedicate that's going to be dedicated is going? But it's it's not for a new park. It's to maintain our current parks. >> Previous to what you saw the budget a couple years ago. >> Previous councils hadn't funded parks. >> I specifically remember that parks and was part of uh the budget. That was a separate item. >> Might have been to the tune of like 50,000 three four years ago. It it it's been years if not decades of not being properly funded. And so, while it was proposed two years ago to be 500,000, that was one of the line items that we cut back at that point in time to not have as big a levy increase at that time. And so, it's been inching upwards because we've got a backlog of park equipment that is outdated, broken, in desperate need of replacement. their their shelf life is like 20 years and many of our parks are at that shelf life. >> All right, >> I appreciate that explanation. >> Absolutely. >> So, next up, uh where's the rest of that money going? I mean, uh I saw there was uh we were hoping to get a new police uh sergeant and two more officers. Is our crime rate that high right now? I mean, I 20,000 I heard her say 20,000 calls a year. police department's taken. Are those all responded to by an officer? Are those just every is that just the number of phone calls that comes in? >> So, Chief Chief Peterson or Captain Handcraft, do you want to explain just the the call volume and the number of officers uh in the last 10 years? >> Yeah. So, we have been responding to just about 20,000 calls uh a year like you had mentioned. Um 10 years ago, we were responding to about 14,000 calls uh per year. So that has increased quite a bit and um we have not added any police officers in the last 10 years. Not one. >> How many are we at right now? >> Right now we're at 27 and then three um civilian that are un not sworn officers. And so um you know and the calls for service have also um become so complex now with also the uh you know mental health um those types of calls that we're going to sometimes can take you know anywhere from 5 10 minutes to a few hours to to deal with those types of calls. >> Well I can't pick apart any of that. But again, just overall, you guys, I'm urging you, I'm begging you, start tightening the belt because there's no every time we start spending another $2 million a year, $3 million a year, we might as well be living in the cities. You know, we inflation's hitting us, too. And every every single one of these projects, while they're great individually, you know, yeah, God, it's not that much money. It's another park. It's this. is that you're nickel and diamond us to death. So please, please, and might be too late for 2026, but you're a stone throw away from starting 2027's budget. You know, April 14th is uh is that the right date? It's coming. It's going to be here soon. you know, keep this in mind when you start next year's because if we don't start seeing decreases, we're all going to get priced out, every one of us. Thank you very much for your time. >> Thanks for feedback and coming tonight. Next person. >> Hi, I'm Diane Smith and I'm at 9185 182nd Street. First of all, thanks for this opportunity to address you. This is wonderful. Um I just have a question and I asked is it L or Ellie? L and so you were very sweet by the way. Um just to have a line item um when I'm looking at and she she helped direct me how to get to the budget and just look at the numbers and all that. Um for fund 101, fund 203, fund 205, etc. Um there are significant um amounts here and I just wondered if there's a line item or we can just look and the only reason I'm asking I come I have complete faith in you by the way um and I've met you before Blake so you and Jeff um leave right yeah um but my concern comes from Henipin County Commissioner you know it's been in the news and I'm sure you're very well aware of that and they're they are spending um on outrageous things and it was it's frightening to see that that can even happen. Um so I know residents are not pleased and um whatever can happen in one city, it can certainly happen in another. Um, so I just think for transparency sake and maybe you already have it. Just I would like to find how to just look so I can sleep at night and say, "Oh, look, here's how they're spending it." Because things do cost money, things are expensive, and um, so my trust is with you, but I just think it would be nice to see line item. So does that already exist? Um like for example um like he said the park dedication fund you know general fund, capital equipment fund, project development fund, things like that. >> Want to comment on that? >> Yes. So that does exist. Um my contact information is on the city website. If you go under the finance tab um you will see my lovely headsh shot and then you will see an email link. If you click that email link and you send me this request, I will be able to pull it for you. I do not have it offhand tonight, but it is a public document. These are your taxpayer dollars and I am more than willing to even sit down with you and walk through it with you. >> Okay, I appreciate that. And there may be people at home that don't know how to navigate to get to this place where I am, and it it takes having a conversation. So, I really appreciate that. Um, but I do know the average Joe will not. So maybe it's just a way to make it a little more user friendly on here. You know, just a click away, maybe like hyperlink these funds and then that will just take you right to it. >> Perfect. And then um when budget docs do get finalized, we will update the finance tab and it will have all of this information as well. And so that will be a little bit more user friendly, but we'll certainly look at it. >> Okay. I appreciate you. >> Thanks. Thank you, >> Mr. Mayor. if I may comment um for your benefit as well as the previous speakers >> um you know those dedicated funds and even like the park dedication fund some of that and we've gotten a lot of feedback of hey you know fund it's like save money right save money before you spend it and so that's what some of these expenditures are for is even though we're not having the outlay today we're building up necessary funds to afford some of these upcoming expenses and that's what our 10-year plan is all about is kind sequencing out when are we going to maybe change out some park equipment or you know new equipment and utilities or whatever. And so make sure as you're looking at that to also look at that 10-year plan so you can see what's been recommended by staff for council to consider of what what do we need to replace when in the upcoming years. And that's what some of these dollars are being collected for is to be able to afford those things in the future so we're not taking on more debt or having spikes in in in tax levies. >> Good point. Thanks for pointing that out. Right. Anyone else would like to speak this evening? My name is David Roang, 21380 Fondant Avenue here in Forest Lake. I'd just like to address the increase. You guys have each gotten a mailing from me as well, kind of reflecting what was in the Forest Lake Times here about outpricing people with taxes uh not being able to afford it. And it's kind of this area wide was I think was Bri Hannah I think is the one that wrote that and uh I you know u the only reason why my tax uh proposed is only at 6.4 4% is because the other uh taxes uh increases Washington County and uh ISD uh is there virtually hardly any increase at all where your portion of it uh proportion would be about 13.5% uh this coming year. That's opposed to last year the increase was about 25% on my property. And I know you you all have said well we take in consideration what your uh estimated values were. Well, if your estimated values increase, then I expect that I will pay more, but I don't know that I would expect to pay that much more that I, you know, that that I'm seeing. Um, and maybe I don't understand, but Ellie, is that your name? uh you know uh we're talking about a close to 8% increase uh on your portion of it, the city's portion. I don't know pretty much anybody in this city. I may be I think the average person is not getting an 8% increase in their in their wages and their salaries. And I personally am on a fixed income which means social security and we're talking about a 3% increase you know and so you're almost at you know almost 3% higher I'm sorry three times higher than what I am getting proposed for next year uh social security increase and to kind of reflect on something that was said uh last year by Congressman uh or Councilman Ericson. You know, to say that I can get a go and get a state refund is pretty disingenuous quite honestly. You know, we all have to live within our means and sometimes saying, you know, something like that really doesn't reflect what the average person has sees when he sees almost, you know, a three time, you know, what we're going to get an increase. And I'm just I know that you guys are doing your best to to keep the everything down. I I just don't understand how with the increase, you know, you said that the increase in the amount of people. Maybe that hasn't been just recent. I don't know that. I don't know what the population has increased. You're saying, "Okay, I need we need more money to fund all this these increases that we're getting in population." If that's the case, then where are those funds coming from? their taxes they're paying into the city that should also increase the total you want to say income into you know this the city's coffers at that point that's I guess I'm h have a hard time understanding that and I you know a lot of people matter of fact I I'll even direct it a little bit to to Blake I've got people around me that have voted for you for mayor as opposed to the previous mayor because of your willingness to hold down expend expenditure increases but we're in fact seeing you know increases and I would have hoped that we would have seen a little bit closer to inflation rather than what we're seeing now. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else like come up tonight to speak on the budget? Great. One last time. Anyone else like to come speak on the 2026 budget? No one else coming forward. I will close the public hearing at 7 o'clock and we'll bring it back to council. All right, council. We have a resolution in front of us uh for the 2026 tax levy. Any any comments or anyone want to share some thoughts? Uh, I appreciate Ellie the time that you put into this and explain everything to everyone and and Mark as well and als all all the department heads really. >> Mr. Mayor, uh, Mr. Mayor, council members, I guess I would like to add just a few comments. Um Ellie, um staff, Mark, uh everybody in the city has worked very very hard for all of you and for all of us to do the best we can to keep our taxes in line with what's going on in our state and other cities and counties in our state. The average in the state of Minnesota right now for tax increases is over 8.9%. When we went into this, we were pretty high, but we had to set our high level and we had to work backwards to cut as many things as we can to get our taxes down as low as we possibly can. None of us want to pay higher taxes either. We all live in this city, but we love this city and we're going to do everything we can to make this city better. And with that comes lots and lots of infrastructure improvements that have been neglected for years and years and years. parks that have been neglected for years and years and years. Our staff has been working with a skeleton staff for years. Our police, our fire, everybody has been working very hard for all of you and for all of us, but we've been way understaffed. We have infrastructure in our city that is falling down. Our public works buildings are probably the most unsafe buildings we have and they're falling down. Yet, we continue to use them. So, I just want to compliment everybody here on this panel, on this council, and everybody in the city for the hard work they've done. And I think getting this down from where we started to 7.9% is an incredible feat in order to provide all of you with all the services you deserve. >> Thank you. >> Um, I'll just A few things here. Uh, it did start the 10-year plan called out for it to be at 16.4%. Uh, we set that that high mark levy at 12.59%. We continue to push back on on things, cutting things to get it down to 9.25 and then to ultimately where we're at today at at 7 7.9. Um, council member Miller made a lot of good comments and I agree with him. There is infrastructure in this city. So, there's some pipe that we have to replace here in the next year or two that we're already putting money towards that's a hundred years old. Um, Forest Lake is a very conservative community and we want to keep it that way, but we also need to start spending some money on things that we should have done a number of years ago. Northshore, we finally did $4.5 million. That road probably should have been done seven years ago and it probably would have been a third of that cost or twothirds of that cost. And so this council and the previous council has done a nice job of trying to keep everyone everyone's taxes reasonable enough, but yet investing in the community. Um, you know, in business or anything else, you have to spend money to make money. When I say make money on the city side of things, it's bringing more people to the community, more businesses. And so with that, um, I just want to thank staff for, um, being agreeable to pushing back on some of these things. Um, I think this is a very good budget that still allows uh to be fiscally conservative but allows us to invest in this great city. And so with that, I would make a motion that we approve tonight's uh 2026 budget resolution 1282503 approving the 26 2026 tax levy and adopting the 2026 budget. I'll >> second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. Motion carries. Next item, 8Bs, certification of delinquent utility accounts. And Ellie, >> good evening, mayor and council members again. So tonight in front of you, you have for approval the certification of the 2025 delinquent utility accounts along with other fees. Every year the city of Forest Lake will bring forward to the council a list of the delinquent utility accounts in accordance to Minnesota State Statute 444.075. And this statute allows the city of Forest Lake to assess any unpaid utility accounts to the following year's property tax. Within that, we are also able to assess a fee on top of what is outstanding. In order for us to get to this process, the city is required to mail out letters to anyone who has an outstanding um account laying out how much is left, what their due date is, and what happens if those accounts don't get assessed. And on top of that, we are also required to post it in the paper announcing that if anyone does have any questions, comments, or concerns about their utility accounts, tonight is the night to come and speak in front of the council at the public hearing that will happen when I am done talking about our delinquent utility accounts. This year, something new to the city of Forest Lake that we are able to do with our new code enforcement enforcement officer is also assess any unpaid code fees. We are able to do that through Minnesota state statute 429.101. And so as you will see within your packet, there are four columns. The first column notes your total late utility columns. And then the next one is your total utility bill. You will see that that is increased and that is with the fee that the city is allowed to choose charge under ordinance 181 and 408. And then you will see there is a code enfor code enforcement column and then your total column. This is because when the city does assess these two property taxes within Washington County, we are required to only allow one per parcel. And so each one of those individual totals are broken down in accordance with Minnesota state statutes and what is allowed by city ordinances. If the council doesn't have any questions regarding the list or what was just presented into the presented to them, I would recommend mayor to open up for public comment. With that, at 7:07, we will open up the public hearing on delinquent utility accounts and other unpaid fees. Is there anyone here this evening wanting to come up to speak to this? I'll ask again. Is anyone interested in coming to speak to this issue 706 or 708? We'll close the public hearing and bring it back to council. Questions, thoughts, concerns? So, I I just um first couple years on this on council, I was amazed about this number. It's 300 some thousand dollars. Uh, out of that 300 some thousand in history, and I don't know really who to ask here because we're all relatively new staff, is like what, you know, if it was about the same last year, are we still working on trying to collect these or once they're assessed uh to the property, is collection then stop? >> Correct. >> Does >> I would say when my staff originally sent out the letters, the number was closer to half a million. And so the effort staff is making at our utility billing level did bring in additional probably a 100,000 to 200,000 that did not have to be assessed. And so when we do take those steps we see that number decrease. >> But then after that after this is put on there then we're not correct. >> Any other thoughts or questions? Great. Anyone interested in making a motion? >> Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion that we approve resolution 1208-2504 ordering the certification of unpaid utility charges and other fees pursuant to Minnesota statute 444.075 subdivision 3E and Minnesota statute 429.101 for collection with payable 2026 property taxes. >> Second. >> We have a motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I opposed. >> Motion carries. Next item, 8C Elmrest Avenue Cooperation Agreement. Abby, >> thank you. Uh, Mayor Roberts, members of the council, tonight in front of you is your consideration of a cooperative agreement between the city of Forest Lake, Columbus, Hugo, Lino Lakes, and the Economic Development Authorities of Anoka County and Washington County. The intent of the cooperative agreement is for all jurisdictions to agree to move forward with an Elm. I'm going to call it Elm Crest, though it many different names. Elmrest Avenue corridor study. Um the intent of this study is to look at the Elmrest Avenue corridor which is our western boundary in the southwest corner of the city that we share with Hugo and it or excuse me Columbus and extends down into Hugo and Lo is to come up with a universal design for the for the roadway that all four cities can agree to. We believe that this significant economic development effort as we move forward is going to be able to help better guide the development along this corridor and also make um all of the cities and the counties potentially eligible for some potential funding in the future for the development of this roadway that development is leading towards but there's really no plan for. Um, included in the cooperative agreement, the parties would agree to uh scope of services for a request for proposals. We'd solicit and evaluate responses, select a firm to conduct the design plan. We'd develop and agree to a funding formula, and execute a professional services agreement, and then we would create the Elmchrist Avenue corridor design plan, conduct presentations, and adopt the plan. At this time, no money is being asked from any of the jurisdictions. Rather, it's enabling the staff of all of these jurisdictions to move forward with de developing um RFP to go out for services to see what this would cost us. We did bring this forward to the uh horse EDA last week who are in support of this. They do recommend that we enter into this agreement. And we did also hear from Chris Ing with Washington County CDA who has said the CDA does have funding that is available that would be able to help offset those costs. So um tonight before you is consideration of entering into this cooperative agreement and staff is recommending um you motion to approve the corridor cooperative agreement and authorize Mayor Roberts to sign it. Do you have any questions for me? I don't have any questions. I just have a comment. Uh, having been at the EDA meeting last week and having an opportunity to look more closely at this with the entire EDA body and hearing from Abby as well as Chris. Um, so I'm in full support of this agreement be a good step forward. >> Questions. Want to make motion? >> Yes, sir. I make a motion to approve the corridor cooperative agreement and authorize Mayor Roberts to sign it. >> I'll second. >> Motion, a second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I opposed. Motion carries. 8D, Ordinance 764, uh, 2026 fee schedule. Ellie. >> Good evening, mayor and council members. One last time, what is in front of you tonight is the city's review of the 2026 fee schedule. At our prior meeting, we brought forth a amended fee schedule for the 2025 fee schedule to update a couple escrow accounts. But within this, this is a full review and modification reviewed by all staff members and department heads. With this on your packet, there are a couple summaries that I'm just going to talk through. Um the first one is the administration citation portion has just been updated to fit what is we're seeing across our partner cities and what are our comparable cities showing. Um building inspections was reviewed and updated in the similar parameter with our new building inspector Jason. And then we have our police just updated some they updated one fee that they didn't have the ability to enforce. And then planning and zoning. I'm actually going to have Abby talk on this one as this is where most of the modifications came from. >> Um, so a number of years ago, the city council elected to include into the fees schedule escrow deposits for many of our development applications. The city at the time was charging a nominal fee and then would ask developers to sign what's called a bill back agreement. It's kind of an IOU promise. And when I came on, I had encouraged the council to consider adopting an escrobased system, which is um kind of converting from that credit card system to a debit card system essentially in an effort to ensure that we don't have outstanding um debts from developers, that we're not having to invoice, that we're not having to go track down money later. uh that we'd collect a little bit more money upfront and that we'd keep track of those charges associated with those development accounts and as accounts got low then we'd add more in. I told the council, which I think maybe council member Valento might have been the only person that was here at the time, that I knew that the numbers that we were starting with were low. And that was um partially because I had been new here and hadn't had enough time to really assess how much development was development review was costing. So after a few more years of being able to assess how much it takes for the city to review um and a lot of that is also in um with costs incurred by our consultants, how much it cost us to actually reviews our applications, and then also assess where we were kind of fair marketwise. We're looking at some of our peer communities. Tonight before you is some increases in those escros to be both in line with um a couple of our peer communities, but really I looked at Hugo, Lino Lakes, and Wyoming, I think is what I had put in the staff report. And also then what we've been incurring also on the fee schedule then is the removal of some applications where I don't believe we should be accepting escros. That would be most of our residential developments where we might just be charging our homeowners flat fees for something like a variance or conditional use permit where we're really not incurring any outside cost. It's really just taking that staff time. Um, so tonight before you is kind of a culmination of those that you'll see some of those numbers increase if you cross compare them with the existing, but those increases really do reflect what it's actually costing us to do the development review of many of our um most of our major land development applications. You have any questions specific to that for me or we can wait till we're done maybe and you do I'm available. And then the final portion of that fee schedule would just be our public works. And we updated a few rates to make it consistent. And then it was also the sewer, water, and storm water rates, which went in front of the council at the workshop in October. So staff is recommending the approval of the 2026 fee schedule, but I am here to answer any questions, and so is Abby. Council thoughts. >> I we we've worshopped a lot of this so I mean not a lot of new information here. So appreciate you bring this forward >> that anyone make a motion. >> Make a motion to approve the 2026 fee schedule ordinance number 764 an ordinance repealing and replacing city code chapter 35 fees and service charges. Second >> motion to second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I >> I opposed. Motion carries. >> Next item 8E December workshop status. Jolene. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Um we are winding down in the calendar year here and tonight is technically our last meeting of 2025 for the city council. Um in order to wrap up a few loose ends, I'm proposing that the city council consider converting next week's workshop to a regular meeting so that the city council can conduct some business to wrap up those few lingering items. Um, this wouldn't require a whole lot of work. We would certainly post notice of the meeting if council were to choose to convert this. Um, if we want to keep it as a a workshop, that's certainly under council's discretion, but I would just note that our next meeting of this council won't be for another month until January 12th. Questions? >> Do you anticipate other workshop items? >> There could potentially be some workshop items. Yeah, I mean, you know, um, certainly if we're if we're going to have a convert it to a meeting, we have discussion items, you know, just like we have on our normal agenda would be in a workshop setting. We'd be in the I guess we could still we could do both actually if you wanted to have a separate work session, but I would suggest we just simply have discussion items on the regular agenda. You're looking for a motion to make that change or is this >> I would if council's open to it. I'd request a motion to convert that meeting from a workshop to a meeting. >> Motion. >> I'll make a motion to convert the December 15th, 2025 council workshop to a city council meeting. >> Second. >> Motion second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I opposed. Motion carries. Next item 8F. Let's go fishing. Funding requests. Dave Adams. >> Yeah, mayor and council. I'm kind of doing this on behalf of Kyle Young. Um I hope you took the time to read his really long uh memo here. He was very thorough and his uh background of this. I'll kind of give you the the shorthand version. Uh let's go fishing. And Kyle met in about April and started talking about uh creating a chapter here on on Forest Lake. It was brought to believe the parks commission in June. um the the commission was all on board with making this partnership. So Kyle and Let's Go Fishing been working since June creating this chapter. They have a board now. They've been out raising money um to try to get a 2026 season. Uh they raised about $28,000, enough to buy a boat. They bought one from another chapter, I think, up in Rush City. So they're going to buy a used boat. um they're still short a little money to guarantee that they're going to be um going in 2026. Even since he wrote this memo, he met with the Forest Lake schools uh bass fishing team. There's going to be a great partnership there with volunteers and all the kids are going to be volunteer hours are going to be used for helping run these boats. They got some captains that are going to volunteer hours. So, I think where we're at right now is we just need to get this off the ground and once it's off the ground donations and people are going to want to be part of this. It's one of those until you see it and the word gets out that people are taking these trips, it's been at that last step. So, at the last meeting in uh November, um Mark from Let's Go Fishing, the president of this chapter, um in his pres presentation of where they were at. And then after the meeting, actually, the parks and reccks commission um wanted to know if there's a way to to help out. And after that, an email was sent requesting $10,000 from the city to kind of fill that last gap to be able to secure 100% funding for 2026 to make sure that uh they can go u in the parks parks um programming fund. We are uh well under budget this year. Kyle did a great job of raising um funds and volunteers and stuff for all of our other events. So, um, it wouldn't be a an overbudget situation to be able to give these d these dollars to this this fund. So, I can answer any questions you have, but basically the ask is to donate that $10,000 to this group and in the future in kind donation to this group would be providing them a slip in partnership with your boat club at the lakeside um docks there for this pontoon to be housed and where that the on and off boarding of the events would take place. Dave, can you give just for the more of the public knowledge just exactly what Let's Go Fishing is and who they serve and >> Yeah, it's um uh older older citizens, disabled citizens, uh veterans. It's a whole gamut of people that just even people that can't afford to go fishing that don't have a boat or the fishing tackle. Um it's not set for specific groups of people. So, it's it's a sign up to these these uh scheduled times and you get a a boat ride on Forest Lake and they provide all the fishing tackle, the fishing bait, people in the tool guide to have a captain running the boat. So, it's it's fantastic. The other bonus is you you usually have a group of people coming into town. And from from what we heard from Let's Go Fishing, these people are going out to the meals at a restaurant before or afterwards or, you know, stopping at a gas station to buy, you know, stuff for that trip. So, I think you're also infusing dollars into the community just by having this type of event. And do you know or or anyone else is it common that cities participate in funding for this organization and other communities? >> Uh it's it I think that in kind donation typically it's giving them a spot to uh have you know that was one of their initial asks was if we could find them a spot on the lake to be able to have this. You know they were starting to talk to residents to see if they could use their own private dock to be able to run this event. So, it is helpful that we have, you know, a marina right there that has a a fuel tank and, you know, 24-hour day staffed, you know, places with, you know, accessed off to her, you know, security asset access off, so it's protected. Um, I don't know if the the initial ask is that common, but I I think it's a it's a really good opportunity to get this this club going, and like I said, I don't I don't really see an issue with with this thing taking right off. Once people see it and hear about it, it's it's going to be a a longstanding partnership in the city. >> And just one last question, would that slip be a loss to the city as or it would be one less space that your vote club would use. You mentioned a partnership, but >> yeah, we're working on that. It's either going to be a tie off. So, one of the slips that they don't currently rent, it would be on the outside. It wouldn't be actually the protected slip inside or it' be along the fuel fuel docks there. um just tied off there. So it it won't take a year club spot motion. I'd like to make a motion to approve a donation of $10,000 to Let's Go Fishing Chapter of Forest Lake. Um just on a side note, I met with Keith also as a member of the Forest Lake American Legion. he's going to come and speak before us and uh I think it's a just the slight information that he gave me at our Friday night Christmas event at the park. It's an awesome deal for the vets and also some of the other people in the community. So, as far as the Forest Lake goes, I know that we were probably going to be posting a donation to this event as well on behalf of our veterans. Thank you. >> A motion. Is there a second? >> A second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. Motion carries. 8G Southwest Forest Lake Infrastructure Phasing Study at Waters Parkway Extension. Abby. >> Thank you, Mayor Roberts, members of the council. Um, in late 2024, the EDA was awarded a Washington County pre-development finance fund grant to assist with the development of a study focusing on the future infrastructure in the southwest quarter of the city. So, that same area we were talking about Elmrest earlier, as development's moving towards it, we've identified that we really don't have some long-term infrastructure plans that are needed for the area. So, we were funded a two-part study which would identify the future alignment of Headwaters Parkway and then also create some new design standards and policies related to collector roadway design in the study area. Um, tonight I'm going to run through some presentation slides that uh city engineer Ryan Goodman did create. I'm not going to read them all. There's some there's a little extra wordy in there for me. Um, but I do want to at least highlight what the study is. So, looking in that southwest corner bordered Elmrest on the west, Headwaters Parkway, Fenway and 190th. The primary purpose of the study is to figure out where is Headwaters Parkway going to connect with Elmrest Avenue. And the study really looked at and it said we're going to explore two options for that. One that lines up with 195th and another one that lines up halfway between 190th and 195th. The scope uh identified was those two conceptual layouts, engaging with property owners, identifying easements needed, wetland investigation, preparing preliminary storm water design, and then preparing preliminary cost estimates. In addition to the Headwaters Parkway Extension, again, there are some additional policies related to the design of the parkway and the other collector roads in there. We've talked with the council a little bit in the last year about that here and now design versus the design of Forest Lakes's long-term full buildout future. Um, part of this was stemming from the 2006 master plan of the area. Headarters Parkway west of high of Fenway was intended to have that two-way divided roadway design like Headwaters Parkway has between Highway 61 and Fenway. As Parkway started to move west of Fenway. We narrowed that down and have been working in that single design. We've started to see development in that um kind of phase three area where the Hidden Creek has been developing. And as Hidden Creek moves to the south to be known as Hidden Creek South, cleverly um we really needed to figure out how that roadway was going to keep extending. So our conceptual layout number one is just following the same alignment as noted in the 2006 Headwaters Parkway or excuse me headarters planned unit development. You'll see in here carries that existing design but it does have some wetland impacts as we move towards Elmrest Avenue. We've indicated on Elmrest Avenue that we do and we don't know what that control intersection is going to be like or that intersection control will be like. Uh so we are kind of planning for the potential for an impact of if a roundabout was going to be put in that location. Conceptual layout 2, it is longer in design does have less impacts. Also still accounting for that potential if there was going to be a roundabout in that location. As you'll notice with option one and option two, we have also put in the concept plans we've seen over the last few years in the area to look at how the neighborhoods would feed into the two different options. Option one really only provides for the existing access into Hidden Creek and then a new access from Hidden Creek South. Option two does provide much more access into those residential neighborhoods as they develop. noted we did conduct a wetland delineation identifying the different wetland types. This is just showing you there there's much like a lot of our development areas in Forest Lake. There's a lot of wetland areas that we need to work through. Concept one does uh have 1.13 acres of immediate wetland impact. The roadway because it's smaller is less costly. Um, and it is consistent with that underlying PUD and comprehensive plan. Concept layout two has less of an immediate wetland impact. It would be more expensive than option one, but it does serve a larger development area as the roadway extends down and then to the west. It actually touches most of the undevelopable parcels that don't touch Fenway or 190th. If that makes sense to you, this would be the way that this could u these devels in the area standing back that parcels in the area would all connect Elmrest to Highway 61. Um, additionally, this would also be able to allow us to tie into the judicial ditch 4 project, really kind of looking at infrastructure all together in that location. So, Other design considerations um we have looked at the wetland management corridor in the area and what that would require. We are still working through some things with the wershed regarding that wetland management corridor and any sort of upland buffers from the wetlands. And then also we will need to work closely with Rice Creek Wershed District on 100year elevations. Some of this is also being done with that JD4 study that we're kind of working in conjunction with one another. So the project next steps are determine a preferred alignment and then once we have a preferred alignment we'd be moving forward with preliminary storm water design preliminary cost Smiths finalizing some of those policies for integration into our development um our development materials our city code our public works engineering design standards. Tonight before you is um staff seeking direction from this council on the preferred alignment for Headwaters Parkway. I will note that we have received um one development application that will be impacted no matter which way or I can't say no matter which way but will be impacted by the decision. And so one of the things that we're really looking to do is to establish that preferred standard so that we can start really better guiding the development in this neighborhood. Um, so my recommendation tonight is you discuss this and provide some direction to staff. I will also note we did meet with the EDA last week, chatted with them because it is an EDA project and the EDA has indicated that there is favorability to option two. I should also note we have met with all land owners in the area with the exception of Bob Walls who owns the properties where it'll intersect with Elmrest Avenue. Um, many of the property owners were in support of option two. There was some discussion about whether or not Headwaters Parkway should extend straight down to 190th. Staff does have concerns for that because generally you don't want to connect a collector road with another collector road. You want to make your smaller roads connect to your bigger roads and your bigger roads connect to your bigger roads. And we really want to try to be connecting this collector road to our state and county highway systems kind of that's how that transportation network builds. Um we have heard from the property owner Pat Sertie right here who has been less favorable of either option. She did suggest an option that kind of clipped her property a little bit more, likely reserving the farmstead off for um kind of isolating it by itself and then coming through the center of the properties in between when in between the two options. The challenge that staff would has identified with this potential third alternative which we have not looked at is there while there would be no wetland impacts. Um it would just push those impacts on to the private development later. Um impacts for roadway development are viewed a little bit more favorably. um when we're building big roads, the technical evaluation panels seem to be a little bit more favorable when we're building roads versus impacting wetlands or private residential development. So, tonight before you discuss item um but staff is seeking some direction on preferred alternative by the council so we can keep moving forward and then also start um looking at some of these plats that might be affected. You have any questions for me? One real quick one. Um, option two that divides some some zoning as well. Correct. >> Correct. Um, so option two really is uh the current zoning doesn't isn't affected, but the future land use is. So everything to the south of option two along that kind of um section line is guided for highway business where to the north it's guided for single family residential. And so, um, there is that I'm going to go back to here. There is that opportunity to revisit some of this future highway business land area in the 2050 comp plan that we'll be starting next year. But as of right now, we do anticipate that it for sure along Elmrest Avenue that that highway business, it would be um still remain along those major corridors. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Mayor. Council members, uh Ebie, um could you re go back and show us, you said you had some potential, uh developers that have come to the city with some ideas and some plats and lay them out where they are with both roads. How would it I just want to see how it affects if we have the 195th road with development versus the second option. >> Sure. I'm gonna, if you don't mind, Council Member Miller, I am going to stay on this map here with our two options. >> Okay. >> Um because 195th is uh the line that separates our current urban service area with our future service urban service area. So while the city has seen concept plans for a number of different things in the area, really all that we can I can't say take seriously is what's what's being planned in where we have our urban services and what's being guided for development in this decade. >> So currently we have received um application for it has not yet been determined to complete Hidden Creek South. Correct. We've seen a concept plan on Hidden Creek South. Can you see my cursor? Yeah. Yep. >> Um that would include development of this parcel here which headwaters uh Hidden Creek development kind of comes and loops up and around and would come back in to meet up with the parkway however it would end up lining up. And then Hidden Creek South also includes the western parcel of the Chris Taylor trust property. Um that preliminary plat that was submitted and that was just submitted right before Thanksgiving. It was after we had had property owner correspondence, but before we'd come to the EDA to have the conversations shows Headwaters Parkway extending straight down. I'm going to flip over to our options really quick. In option one, we would have to carry the the development plat is being shown at coming down this property line, not swooping in this fashion. We don't have enough um we we need that bend as it's designed for safety reasons. >> I understand >> if you um this portion here was designed with the Hidden Creek or the Hidden Creek South um concept plan embedded into it. It might have changed slightly from the dotted roadways you see here, but generally speaking, this is approximately what we've seen for Hidden Creek South. Though, we do have um what I would call ghost plat designs. Um they're not even concept plans, never submitted to us on the Cerni property or the Rayvine property further south outside of the current urban service area. certainly gives us a lot more options I think with development with option two versus option one. >> Yeah. From staff's perspective, and I kind of keep going back to this, even though the roadway alignments aren't well depicted here and don't follow the two options you've seen, swooping the road down and following along the halfway point between 190th and 195th really touches the Hidden Creek South properties, the Cerni property. Rayines own both of these. This is the brand property and these are both owned by walls. So when you bring this down along the property line and oops and scoop it around to the west, you're really touching all of the individual landowner properties in the area. Um that really will help us better feed those parcels into the parkway. While it doesn't touch the park IDs along Fenway, we do believe that those access over on Fenway, another collector road. >> Thank you. >> Um I I guess I wouldn't normally, but with the watershed history you have on the I'm assuming you're going to speak to that. >> John Waller, Mr. Abby, Mark, u I know we have uh the headarters in the wershed plant that's there, but tonight I'm hearing you extending it a little bit farther maybe beyond the branch 4 of JD4 and south towards 180th Street earlier when you were talking about the four cities. Uh, I know that's not in the plan, but if you're going to extend beyond the current footprint that you have labeled in the plan, it would be good to get the district to make an amendment because when it comes to funding, Mr. mayor. Um the district uh uh is able to uh grant funding from the whole district back to the city for new projects and it can also work with the city to uh access the clean water fund money we would use for improvements. For example, we're we're dredging should I say such a word? Dredging Jones Lake and Ramsey County right assume Uh Jones Lake is a wet land that's been filled in and and uh misused over decades and decades and such of neglect. But um and we'll have to go to the state for for bonding money. But nevertheless, that can be done is what I'm saying to you with those wetlands. But you have to put it in the plan. And uh I was with Mark earlier this spring and we took a look at the plan, make sure that is in there. But if you're going to have it extended to that footprint, Abby, and that footprint that you're also talking about with those four cities on that road, which we've talked about that for decades, I remember when Bachmann was a representative, we were trying to get something done with the federal government on that. And uh to put that into the plan uh so make sure because uh along with your um your long-term storm water plan at the same time, make an amendment to our plan early because it's five years till we do that yet. So, that's all I was going to say, Mr. Mayor, is that you that way you have access to funding and it's always good to be able to tell the folks that you uh are really spending this much money because you got it from other taxpayers. you know, tonight they're upset about you spending this little bit of money, but as I remember, you have a $5 million bonding bill that came from the state along with some small change from the watershed district, 50 60,000 or something. And it's important to show the balance of that. Uh I think uh that you uh are able to accomplish that much greater impact in your city. And that's why I ask about the the plan for the wershed district. Make sure that's updated. Don't just wait till the end of the 10 years and get it going now and get the footprint in there. Thank you. Thank you. >> Questions? Any additional questions? So I question I have and I guess it doesn't really regardless of what route which which option we go to is this study on the Elm Crest. Are we going to be deadheading a parkway into likely a black dirt road. I mean, what is the timing as to where we think we're going to get all the way there and where this how does that line? Do we It's probably hard to really >> tell, but it's a great question and I think um members of the council, some of you have heard that development pays its way in Forest Lake. And so while we are planning for that future roadway extension to Elmrest, as of right now, we don't have development plans to put in Elmrest. This is not look, we're not looking at a public infrastructure project. We're just looking at establishing the location and the design details for it. And as development occurs then they would be asked to put in the roadway or it gets de negotiated through the development review process. Um as I mentioned the 195th is the uh urban service area boundary till 2030. So that extension beyond that line we still have a few more years that might get adjusted through the update of the comp plan process. And um so while yes, we're planning for a road to lead to a dirt road, um that would end up happening at the time of development. And the hope is our Elmrest Avenue study and that corridor design development is going to run in tandem with our development that these roadways connect together at the perfect union at the perfect time. Um, that's the hope. >> Well, maybe that that leads number two to even make more sense because it's going to take us longer to get there as opposed to take the 195th that's going to happen sooner. So maybe that to avoid that kind of traffic going out to a gravel road probably. And one thing that um I do want to point out that uh city engineer Goodman had also mentioned in the EDA that's worth noting is headarters Parkway east of Fenway. The southern leg of that was funded with assistance to the city. It was a city funded project but there was some funding pools that we were able to tap into. It's in the cooperative agreement. It's our hope to have a design standard for the roadways that the counties adopt and that the state can help buy into that we can develop Elmrest Avenue with outside sources in the future and potentially looking at that regional impact of the connection to other roadways that there might be a larger infrastructure regional infrastructure project here that could score better on you know state transportation system plans and that sort of thing. So, uh, we're not the only city that's looking at some of the infrastructure that's leading into Elmrest right now. I would say that, um, you know, Columbus has lesser developable land area, but we will be looking at how those accesses go into Elmress, but it this is one of the few kind of more major roadways that will be connecting in there. is looking for a motion to >> Yeah, a motion. Um, so a motion to select option as the preferred alternative for uh the Headwaters Parkway extension. >> Mr. Mayor, I'll make a motion to designate option two as discussed tonight as the preferred alignment of the future Headarters Parkway. >> I'd second that. >> Right. We have a motion, a second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? I opposed. Motion carries. 8H downtown snow and ice removal. Mark, I think you might start on this one. >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Uh, we added this uh agenda item, there was a couple of comments from council members about um snow and ice removal in the downtown. And um you know, just looking back at the history of the discussion here, um I added in the minutes from the previous meeting when this was discussed about a year ago. I think some of the process was um a year ago as you can read in the minutes there just about sort of a wait and see how it goes. I think at the time there was a change to the policy to kind of um up the ante on how often we do some snow removal in the downtown in terms of like hauling out the burm that forms between the sidewalk and the street. Um Dave's crew have been doing that a bit more often. Last year, last snow season didn't present a lot of opportunities to test that out too much. Um, and then also, you know, in the meantime, we've sort of stood up code enforcement a bit more. And so, um, I think again the thought was, let's see how code enforcement goes and how are we doing in terms of getting people to comply. And I think, uh, this last snow event, we had maybe three or four non-compliant folks in the downtown area. Uh, we were able to address those pretty quickly. Um and you know I think staff has become pretty comfortable with that process. I think we have a pretty um responsive process where we have a contractor on call to do the abatement and um it's done you know within Abby. Do you have a estimate of roughly how quickly that gets done? >> Yeah, I mean this is only our second year doing it in our first year with our quarter time code enforcement officer. Um, I do think that they were out there within 24 hours of us calling them. The challenge is I think the last more significant snow event maybe happened on a Thursday or for Friday and then you've got that weekend and we're not in until Monday and then we inspect it and maybe don't call till Tuesday. So, there is a delay in that service. Part of that is Dan is only here a couple or three days a week, four hours a day. One nice thing is that once somebody gets noticed once in the um the year, we can just go out and emergency abate from here on out. And so we do believe that once that first snowfall kind of we work through the kinks with some of those offending properties, the system is designed to kind of get on top of them quicker, but we also believe that that also we have less offending properties as the year goes as the season goes on. And just to add to what is in the packet here, um just to be clear what staff is proposing, if the council should choose to add um service uh to the downtown, we would the current proposal, it would be to simply give the same service to the downtown that we give to our other um routes that are on the current map. So currently our policy extends to patuminous trails and then a number of sidewalks that are included in a um safe routes to school grant that we uh had a number of years ago and and um so essentially we do uh two different theuminous trails and safe routes to school. Um this proposal would um add the downtown district, if you want to call it that, um to the list of places that we uh give this trail service to. Um so again, the proposal would not be to do anything different than any other district other than we would add this five blocks one way and five blocks the other way to the map. Give it the same sort of one pass service that we give the rest of the trails and sidewalks and that are currently on the map. There' still be a role, I guess, is what I'm saying, for each individual business to probably um clean up, so to speak, the the what what our one pass service doesn't do. And then, of course, the frequency with which we do this, we would only do it at the same time that we do other um trails and sidewalks, which means we have a threshold. I think it's two inches, Dave. Um so, we don't do I, you know, we probably we're not going around doing the trails and sidewalks tonight because it's not going to get to two inches. So, that would have to be kept in mind too is that obviously downtown businesses probably want to clear their walks and that kind of thing on a more frequent basis on smaller events. So, that's what's in front of you and I'd welcome any discussion. Obviously, Dave is here to answer any questions to about their operation. >> Well, just quick question. So Abby, with this last snow event, um did did were were there some business owners that were put on notice then? >> Yeah. Um notices ended up so and I'd have to double check with Dan, we have the right with snow and ice removal that it is an emergency service. So we can send our abatement guy out right away and then we can send the notice with the invoice because there is an emergency service. So, I don't know if those notices went out last week as a hey reminder. This is our program. You didn't do it. We're going to or we have abaded or if Dana will be sending them out with the invoices. I just would have to double check exactly what we did in this specific circumstance. But yes, we we are in the process. If all property owners have not been abated, there will be additional invoices or notices going out. Um, this is extends beyond downtown. I know that downtown was the inquiry that came up to staff, but we, you know, as staff, we're really looking at downtown Broadway and 12th >> because those are those commercial corridors where we're seeing pedestrian traffic most impacted. >> Yeah. I mean, I I sent a email just trying to looking for a reminder of what the plan was. And of course, the next morning, the BMS got removed. And so I don't know if those sidewalks that hadn't been previously cleaned got cleaned with those BMS or if there was a contractor that came out or can you walk me through what actually happened last week? >> The we cleaned the BMS but the contractor did show up while we were cleaning the burm. So I talked to Dan today and they would have have cleared it that night that Tuesday night just we had a window of opportunity to get that cleared in between there and hometown hallway. We want to make sure that was cleared out for that event. So >> yeah, really appreciate that you guys did that. >> Yes, they did. He did. him out that he looked at him on Tuesday and then sent him out that night. >> I mean, this came up, you know, we've been talking about it here for two or three years. Um, you know, it's the kind of thing that that downtown is, you know, become more walkable with the enhanced BM removal. It had never, you know, really happened before. It's county road and, you know, or state road and we counted on them to handle that. And I really appreciate, you know, Dave and his team stepping up with the new policy and and making downtown a lot more walkable as I, you know, see elderly clients trying to, you know, climb over a snowbank a couple years ago trying to get to their dental appointment or what have you. It's it's not the situation anymore, which I really, really appreciate and so do they. um you know this corridor there's a we spent a lot of money on a design and things that we want to see happen down here and just the very fact that our equipment is right in the area. I think it's been a conversation that you know past council some members of past councils have had and said hey can we just do a sweep up and down that that corridor um not expecting a building to curb cleaning but just ensure that it's walkable especially on these bigger snow events. Um, and I think every property owner still has a responsibility to get out there and take pride in ownership um, and take care of their property. But again, with equipment being right in that area, just just take another 15 minutes or whatever, you know, it takes to go that five blocks, I think it's a value to the citizens of of Forest Lake to be able to, you know, walk down that sidewalk without fear of, you know, falling or having their snow, you know, just stumbling through three, four inches of snow or what have you. Lots of questions. I think that if the equipment is in the area, if they're doing a burm clean out or something of that nature, I think that's one thing. But I don't think um we should be in the habit of cleaning the full sidewalk. I think the business owners uh would own that area as far as cleaning it up, uh making accessible for their customers and so forth. when the snow reaches a certain level. Obviously, public works has been out there and has taken uh care of that matter, but I don't want to see them coming out all the time and doing the work of the business owners. I think they should be held accountable for their property. Um, for example, just say the people that are on Northshore Drive that have a sidewalk by law and ordinance. They have to clean their sidewalks and they also have to free up the area around the fire hydrant and that um it's just general common knowledge I guess. I just don't want to see our public works spending time out there doing that type of stuff when we have many miles of roads and other things that they should be out doing working more on with uh more occupancy of the public on them on the roadways and such. But if they're in the area, that's a whole another situation. >> Mr. Mayor, council members, I guess my question is for Dave, do we do first of all, is this being charged back to those businesses or is this just a service we're going to do at our expense? >> I believe as it's proposed, it'd be a a service that we're doing for them. And somebody had mentioned minutes and time and how long it might take. What do you project with an average snowfall? How much time is being put in out there if we were to is that from second, it says second to third avenue from so from the south side of town to the north side of town. How how long does that would you say that takes? >> I guess it depend on your snowfall. So 10 blocks. Um, I would I would guess on an easy snowfall about a half an hour to go up and back down and then getting through the roundabout and doing all those ped crossings >> and that's just a clearing basically just a pass and there would still be a bunch of work that has to be done by the businesses. >> Correct. Y >> we're not scraping the sidewalks dry. We're not salulting. We're not sanding. Are we are we liable for anything if we do that? >> Good question. I don't I don't know if we caused damage to the building as we're going by if if that's our liability or not. I think we'd have to use the snowblower as we went through there because otherwise we just vplow a window right in front of all the buildings. So I typically we well it depends on the snow. >> Are we blowing the snow back in the street then? >> We'd be blowing it into the snow burm. So >> into the burm that we're going to scrape. So we have to do one before the other. >> Correct. Yep. So, it's a coordination thing, not just a interesting. Do we do any other sidewalks or any other areas of town like this? >> Uh, we do the other only other sidewalks other than city property that we do are the safe route the school. That was a grant that we got. So, we're required to do those sidewalks for the next 25 years. So, we're at year seven of that. And one other section that we do in front of St. Peter's Church that was added on to the agreement. We also pay them for the parking, but we also do their snow plowing of their sidewalk as well. >> The St. Peter. Hope we get back to that one one of these days. Um, but uh so we don't do anything on Broadway. >> We do the trail on the south side. So we do all the trail. Yep. We do all black top trails throughout the city and then the city owned property except for safe routes to school. You know, I agree with the leaf and I agree with with Jeff that, you know, it is nice when we have an event like we had on Friday with the tree lighting and stuff to uh you know, have that cleared off if you have a sudden storm, but there's no guarantee that would happen all the time. Um, unless obviously we're putting in overtime sometimes. Um, but I'm not sure if that's a good practice from a city standpoint. You know, I've had businesses and and I'm involved in some associations and and where homeowners are supposed to maintain their own stuff. And as soon as you start doing something for someone, it seems like everybody else wants it done for them. My concern would be if we start doing this, what are the other business owners going to expect? >> Well, just a couple points of clarification. The map on the left, we're we're doing all the way around the roundabout right now, right? So that hooks that hooks around the corner where National Insurance Brokers is. Correct. >> And that's because of the walkways there, right? >> Right. Well, walkways in and the sidewalk as well, right? >> Yep. That's city property. Yeah. >> We haven't damaged the buildings yet at this point. Are we also doing the north side of Broadway from Third Avenue Southwest to the to the west? >> Yep. The trail up to the Legion. Correct. >> Is that city owned property? >> That is not. >> We're already doing it elsewhere. When you say the trail, are you talking about her headwood? >> If you look at your map on the left, >> I'm sorry. Y >> Centennial there. >> Yep. >> And then you take a block off and then it's blue again to the west because of the >> way the senior building or whatever. >> Well, we're not doing the senior building. I was just going to ask um for by the roundabout, do we use a what equipment do we use to all the snow there? >> We use an egg tractor because it's really skinny sidewalks. Depends if we use a snowblower or a a plow. Depends on the on the snow. And we know usually what the snowfall is going to be and then that's the piece we put on there the night before or the afternoon before. If we did this, then it would just be the snowb blower the whole time because I don't, like I said, if you had a a plow on the front, you'd make more of a mess than and then good or you'd have to switch back and then switch back again. The amount of miles of trails we do each snow event or two inches >> uh about 11 miles. >> So discussing this for for three years here. Um we did a study it cost us $100,000 and the number one thing that says that we want a more walkable downtown. Um, I get the whole idea of, well, another business is going to expect to whatever, but I think this council is very supportive to try to drive as much traffic and people to our downtown as possible. This is the lowhanging fruit to at least handle one of the issues that we just that we found out through our study that it needs to be more walkable. Um, this seems like an easy ask. We just approved for hundred and some thousand dollars in new public works here this evening. Um it this seems like an easy ask and it's it's really supporting our businesses and getting people to come downtown. Um so I think it's important. It's been something I brought up a number of times over the years. Um support of expanding to do our downtown area. >> Um just one more question, Mr. Mayor and Council. So, I agree that downtown is important. I agree we're trying to get people down there and that's our plan. And so, when we talk about downtown, then uh but we're not plowing any of the roads uh by the uh by the Gong building down there, are we? So, that's a business, but we don't we're not cleaning off their walkways and their stuff, right? They have their own people that do that. >> Well, we're we're right as it's as it's pointed out here. We are right that roundabout that's this small roundabout that's right in front of the gone building. >> Right. But aren't there sidewalks there? No. >> Well, that's the downtown parking lot is contracted out. So, that gets contracted out and then it gets goofy in the municipal lot. There's some that ours are are ours to maintain and there's some that are not depending on when it got developed. So, it's it gets goofy once you get into the municipal lot going down first. that's contracted out >> the building that's set back >> correct >> by the memorial. >> Are you asking about the sidewalks that are like right in front of the ground? >> Yeah, >> because those aren't on the map here. >> Yeah, that's what I'm asking about because that's a business that we're trying to support as well. So, this is my point. Are we going to do those as well and keep expanding or are we just going to focus on >> I think >> Yeah, good good question. And I think the corridor that you see highlighted here is what was part of the downtown study. >> Um you know like as Mayor Roberts reflected was spent quite a bit of money on. Now I will say part of that study shows a one I think it was a onem loop um that would actually cross over one of the currently private only owned privately owned properties um in this downtown corridor. So I I would I would suspect that once perhaps when that ever comes to fruition, you know, there's a very good possibility that of course that would be designated as a trail. So there' be even more mileage downtown that would be of course presumably cleared because it's designated trail. Um >> I think the for me the difficult part of this conversation is in thinking about the history of this conversation. The discussion was around let's we changed the policy and then we test we wanted to test out the abatement process. The first winter we didn't get like any snow so we came back to it. And then we were like, let's let's keep it with the abatement process because last year we didn't get any snow so we didn't get to test it out. So let's test out this year hoping that we'll actually get snow. So last year we did get snow and then we tested it out and then hearing from the staff the abatement process works. Um, so for me it would be hard to include these the sidewalks in there knowing that the abatement process does work because if it is working then we are still making downtown walkable and user friendly because the property owners are shoveling and if they're not then the abatement process as we've all st as it's been stated is working. So that's that's the hard part for me. >> So I guess definition of working plowing it 3 days after the snow event. Is that considered working? >> I think that'd be if it's I mean that's oneoff examples of like if it snows on a Friday, but that's not to say I mean we're going to have certain circumstances like that, you know, like you we can't predict when it's going to snow. I mean, we can like to a certain extent, but the whole conversation was if a banement's working, and I think for the most part it is. And I'm also concerned too with, as Kevin mentioned, and this was part of the historical conversation as well of if we are going to allow this to happen in downtown, then what other property owners will want this to be a thing? For example, St. Peters, we weren't plowing their sidewalks until they requested it in um in the agreement that we approved this last uh year. So, I I I could foresee it continuing to happen where more and more property owners would want this to happen. But and then the conversation it would go full circle of are we going to continue to put more money when it comes to our budget towards public works for this uh um for this service towards our business owners if this continues to grow. Because if this continues to grow and it gets larger, then more of our public works employees are going to be shoveling down here instead of plowing the streets. And then people will be complaining about the streets not being plowed. And then if more property owners want their sidewalks pl, you know, we're just it's going to continue to bubble up and then we're going to put more money towards public works and then got more community members coming in complaining about the budget going up. >> Well, they all due respect as it relates to St. heaters. I can't believe it takes a lot more time to clear that section of sidewalk because we literally would pick the blade up or the brush up, drive past them to put it back down. So, we're already in the area making the pass. So, it I mean, honestly, it was it an extra minute to do St. Peters and it's a route to school. So, I mean, I struggled with that a little bit. Dave, how much kind of what kind of time are we taking right now downtown to clean the the roundabouts there? They're already on the map on the left. Uh it's kind of skewed that the lines are longer than they are. They're really doing the pedestrian ramps. So we we're required by MINDOT to clear all the pedestrians. So the lines connect together, but you're doing it there should be lines across the roads too because we do the middle of the roundabout and then we make the one loop by the gone building to connect the municipal lots together. That's not part of the contract on uh I don't know 15 20 minutes to get through there depending on traffic. of the 30 minutes it would take to do this. They're already there for 15 to 20 of it. >> Just another question. Most of those, you know, businesses, I mean, there quite a few of them are or a few of them are privately owned, but a lot of them are, you know, uh there's common interest property and I'm assuming that you pay they would pay common interest fees, taxes, you know, utilities, uh snow removal, lawn care, watering, that sort of stuff. So, for example, the building that sits right on the corner uh on the north side of Broadway and uh and 61, I would assume you pay a fee there uh towards common interest or common common fees that includes someone coming out and clearing that sidewalk in wintertime. And I would say on the other side, on the south side, they probably pay a lease fee that includes someone coming out and clearing out that sidewalk. I guess I'm not sure why we would get involved in that. you know, the change in policy wouldn't negate that. And those are two properties that they do take great care to clean. >> Yeah, they're always they're very nice. >> Yeah. If you go further south, there's vacant properties that are not, you know, from Broadway or excuse me, from Broadway and Lake halfway up that block, arguably almost all the way to Roll Seth, it's for the most part, it's well maintained. you get north of there, it's not so much. And across the street, you've got some empty lots, there's a, you know, from the Broadway and Lake on the west side, half of that's very well maintained. So, most of it's very well maintained. The whole idea is not that this policy would be in replacement of property owners doing their job and doing doing the responsibility. It's simply they're in the area. What if they take another 10 minutes, make a loop, and so you're at least moving a big snow? It's in and people are going to still have to come through. I mean, those property owners are still going to have to come through and clean, but I >> Yeah. So, again, I'm I'm target I'm sorry, but So, would we have a time limit that we have to do it? I mean, so if it snows 4 in tonight, does our city have to get out and do it tonight? >> That's a It's a great question. one that's come up every time this conversation's come up. Oh, >> the idea is >> I bet I haven't been any of those other ones. >> No. No. So, it's a good it's a good question. It's good to revisit. >> Nobody on this council has asked staff to do anything above and beyond what they're already doing. So, if they didn't get out there to clean that roundabout until Wednesday, there's no expectation that they'd be out there to clean the sidewalks before Wednesday when they're in the area doing their normal course of business. you know, arguably on their way to clean the American Legion sidewalk. They would make a pass up to wherever that line ends and come back down. It's nothing more than that. It's nothing more than what they're doing anywhere else in terms of level of service, time expectation, number of passes. I mean, these are all arguments that have come up of why that shouldn't be added, which again, I I can't believe we're still talking about this in this much depth for three years. >> I mean, that that's what's surprising. This council has pretty much been aligned on everything here, which it's good to have differences, but this seems like a really easy ask. We're looking to make our walk our downtown more walkable, and yes, most of the people take care of it. Once we get some of these empty buildings redeveloped, it's likely not even an issue anymore. Um Dave, why are we doing the Legion? >> It's I believe this is an old map. I think we had this the last time and I think this is the map from the policy and it's updated with that not on there. So this is an old map we used to do in front of the Legion in front of the chiropractor across the street and it was some because we could store some snow on some guy's yard somewhere else. Then we would plow a sidewalk on Broadway. But I believe this is an old map. We do not plow in front of the Legion. I think we had this conversation last year. >> Maintaining. >> Yep. So I believe this is an old map and I believe we had the same conversation last year and I don't think we updated the map or this is the old map of it. But I our new snow plow we stopped right at that pedestrian bridge and the old map used to you show us plowing all the way through but then that was even before Cheerwood Point got developed. So that was just a vacant vacant lot. Just one point of clarification or Abby can tell me I'm wrong, but I believe if if the property is vacant and we know that it's vacant that once it hits 2 in of snow, our abatement comes out. They don't wait 40 hour 48 hours for that to happen. I think a 2in trigger is when they come out. It's the if it's somebody that isn't vacant or somebody else calls in a complaint, then it's 48 hours and then they abate that after that. >> Yeah. similar to what he said is in our contract for abatement services. And this also would go for um lawnmowing in the summertime that we have a a one-time charge and then we also have the ability to do a reoccurring um a reoccurrence on the property. And so we haven't had to do that yet in the winter months because last last year was pretty mild and after that first snow had people going out. Were they going out you know within 15 you know minutes a day? I you know I don't know exactly. I'm not down there as much. Um but we do have the ability to put properties on a reoccurring service for abatement. So >> and Dan would have to see that or someone would have to complain for that to happen. >> No, the way the contract is written is that if we put them if and so again this is we got to give our folks some benefit of the doubt, right? We have fairly some some newer property owners. We have some that are probably I could call tomorrow and put them on a reoccurrence because they they were the same way with lawn mowing. and they were the same way with snow removal last year. But um first time if they didn't do it then, you know, we we'd probably give them one more shot and if they didn't do it that time when we sent them out, we'd probably just have our abatement services after every twoinch snowfall go out and clear their sidewalk and then we invoice them for those services. But we do have the ability to use our abatement services like a private contractor for hire to make sure that these things get done. We do incur a trip charge if they go out and the service has already been done. Um it's a nominal I think it's 25 bucks per property or something. So it's fairly nominal in in the scheme of things. In past communities for myself that use this exact same abatement system. The once that are on that reoccurrence, they're they're just every time there's a two inch snowfall, the contractor goes back out. So might be the next day, it might be, you know, but I think the contract is within 24 hours of that snowfall. Do do the when we do those abatements, do the people normally pay or those end up being assessments? Um because the program is still so new, many of them tonight you saw uh going for assessment. Some people do pay. Generally speaking, the people that are not complying with our rules that get notice and ask to do, you know, to do better and to follow our rules, then receive a citation or an abatement aren't paying their bills. Think of the staff time right there to manage that as opposed to taking a sweep down the sidewalk every other during a snow event. I mean, that alone is >> Well, I I agree with you, Mr. Mayor. Um, my my my concern, and I'm just talking because I like to talk sometimes. Um um I understand we're just going to do a quick plow, but that doesn't mean that those owners don't still have to shovel. And if they don't shovel or clean their walkway, now they're still in some sort of a violation, which we still have to chase them. Wouldn't that be correct? >> But my point is, we shouldn't even make it convenient for them. They know they got to get out there and do it. They should just do it. I've owned business. You own businesses. I've owned businesses. I would get over and clear it out or I would have my company get over and clear it out every time it snowed and they get there as soon as they can get there. Unfortunately, sometimes they can't get there for sometimes six or seven hours, but it was my business and I wanted to make sure it looked great and I wanted it my way if the plow. It's kind of like at home when the I do my driveway. I do a really nice job in my driveway. I scrape that snow off. I work on it. I putts with it. And then that dang plow comes by and it puts a berm at the end of my driveway that's about two foot high. I got to clean it out, you know? I mean, I I I don't mean to be mean, but I still have to clean it out. And that, let me tell you, is no fun. I want to call Dave every time it happens, but >> so I guess I'm so so with it. I'm not sold on it. I don't know why we want to create more work for our staff. >> Well, it Well, I guess the the situation kind of where I see is if if public works is in the area and they're cleaning the BMS off the road, if they make a pass, they make a pass. But I don't think we should make it a a consistent situation where we're out there cleaning off their sidewalk when it's their responsibility. So, wherever you want to go with it on that, I guess that's my thoughts on it. >> It's pretty common for cities to do their downtowns. >> Very common. A lot of cities do all the sidewalks, too. >> We're not asking for that, >> right? >> 11 miles of trails, >> right? We do. We >> All right. Well, I'm going to make a motion that we um add additional snow removal, add to our current snow removal map the downtown core of our city for more walkability and to support the local businesses downtown that we are trying to direct people to as much as easy as possible. currently amendment just to note that that's the sidewalks in the downtown area on Lake Street from Second AB South to North Third Avenue North. >> Correct. >> I'll second that. >> Right. We have a motion, a second. Is there any further discussion? >> All those in favor? >> I opposed. Yeah. Opposed. >> Abstain. Okay. Thought this council was much more supportive of our downtown businesses, but clearly we showed that tonight that we're not. All right. We have discussion. No items there. Staff updates. Ellie. >> No updates. Just wanted to say a quick thank you to Dave and to Kyle for bringing by these trees that are out in the city center lobby tonight to spread some holiday cheer. Um, just much appreciated that they took the time to do that today. So, I just wanted to say thanks for that. Abby, >> uh, planning commission meets this week. They're going to be looking at zoning amendments. One is to consider allowing for cell towers in our single family residential district. So that will be coming before you. Their recommendation will be coming before you in January. They're also going to start reinvigorating uh zoning ordinance amendments really starting with processes and procedures. Reminder, we started this process a few years ago just you know development staffing transitions getting back into it now. um included in your weekly update, but just wanted to announce for the public that the building inspections division is reviewing right now a new restaurant. So, Hus Cafe that's going to be going in near Cub. And then, um we have a new doughnut shop. I don't know if their name is trademarked, so I won't say it out loud. Uh got soon to be opening at the end of the month. So, got a few new things that'll be happening in the next or through this winter. That's pretty exciting. Dave, >> uh, just one update. I want to thank public works staff, Kyle, all the volunteers in the chamber for putting on a great, uh, hometown holiday. Uh, Kyle estimated there was 800 to a,000 people that showed up for that event. So, that's crazy how that's been from a few years past of this that big event. So, I he's excited to throw some more things in it for next year. So, still stay tuned. You never know with Kyle. It'll be be interesting. That's it. >> Thanks, Chief. No updates. Chief Peterson, >> no updates. >> Amanda, >> no updates. >> Mark, >> just a quick thank you to our three unions that we approved contracts on tonight. Um, excellent debate with them and um just a great bargaining table atmosphere. Had very good um cooperation at the at the bargaining tables this year. We got two left to go and we're hopeful we can get those in time for your next meetings. Council meer >> again echoing what was said here earlier regarding the uh holiday tree event. Uh I thought it was an exceptional event. I would like to thank all the sponsors and the city for all their hard work. >> Wonderful intel. >> Couldn't agree more for hometown holidays. It's as uh Dave mentioned, it's really exciting to see that um event just continue to grow and everyone put on their um snow pants and playing out in the snow. It's it's very fun to see. I'm excited to see what Kyle comes up with for next year. I heard some of his ideas, so that'll be exciting. Um, and I um just will be planning to attend earlier through throughout um the coming years cuz it's just so fun to see um like how many cups of um hot chocolate that we went through was I don't know the number, but I think >> I think they ran out. >> Yeah, we ran out >> pretty early. Five gallons per. >> Yeah. Which is just crazy to think of, but it's very exciting to see everyone come out on on a cold day and us celebrating and very exciting for the future. Oh, and thanks for all the hard work for the budget. Um, I know that's not easy and uh we start super early within the year and um yeah, I just want to say thanks to the staff and all the hard work that goes into them. Council member Ericson >> and no additional updates other than I kudos on hometown holidays went off very well. >> Council member Larson. >> Uh no updates. Again, just thank you for everything the hometown for holiday situation. Appreciate your help. >> Right. I have nothing. Um anyone willing to make a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> I'll second. Motion second. All in favor? I >> opposed. We're adjourned.