[Music] well past our scheduled start time thank you for the grace as we had a special meeting that went long um with that we are ready to call tonight's city council meeting to order and Jolene could we have a roll call please council members Ericson here husnik here valento here Roberts here mayor Bane here I'd like you invite everyone to rise and join us for the pledge of allegiance of the United States of America to the rep for it stands na indivisible andice for all Council we have an agenda before you this evening I will entertain a motion to approve or any changes I'll make a motion to approve the agenda second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and our agenda is approved our next item this evening is open Forum open forum is any interested parties opportunity to address Council on any topic of your choosing and I will note that we do have a public hearing scheduled this evening and so if you are um here to talk about the public hearing on 9:32 2nd Avenue Northwest you are welcome to address Council either here during open Forum or during the public hearing either is um either is fine and then that is the only other time scheduled this evening for public comment so if you want to speak now is now is your time with that we'll open up open Forum with Wendy is it Hatcher if you could approach the podium and if you could start with your name and address for the record please okay hi thank you I am Wendy hner um I live at 8595 Northshore Trail here in Forest Lake um I'd like to thank each of you mayor Bane and the council members I know that you guys have just difficult job so and I'm not sure if this is correct protocol but um I wanted to express my concerns because we saw some information in the paper about the repavement of Northshore Trail which is fantastic it obviously needs it terribly CU it's in terrible shape my concern is for all of the baby strollers and the people that have a baby stroller and two dogs and a toddler that shoulder is so small and this was probably before any of you were here but then when they did some repavement then they also put Rock shards next to the road so the shoulder is already difficult to navigate um for bikers and for pedestrians and I I don't know how you feel but when I go to other communities and I see like at White Bear how they've dedicated more and more walking and biking trails for their citizens and you know I feel downtown is much better and the trail here is fine but it it I feel like everybody almost needs a car to get around Northshore Trail because because of the safety concerns um so I'm begging of you if it's possible to somehow widen the shoulders or if it's possible even to shift the painting of the um road so that there's maybe a two-way um bike and pedestrian on one side of the trail or of the road excuse me so that it's more safe at least most of the time except when people cross one another um I know that there are also opportunities to put you know we wouldn't need an entire cement block all the way but some you know some kind of barrier that discourages cars from going so fast um speeding is a huge issue on our road and there are people who regularly go by our house 60 miles an hour and what is designated as a 30 downtown and a 35 out by us we even had our mailbox we requested to move our mailbox over to our side of the road because it's so dangerous even to cross um and so I I wish that there were some magic fix but I hope that you would consider um something to help with the pedestrians on that road um and in the 12 years that I've lived here I have rarely seen anybody pulled over like even downtown when there's a flashing light that obviously shows people to slow down and they don't they like Barrel through so um I love our police officers and I'm super grateful that we have them but if there's anything to get people to slow down more on Northshore Trail and to make it more safe for pedestrians and bikers and yeah that would be amazing very good okay thank you thank you next open Forum Phil hner I do live with her so we cover the same address um yeah so you're getting a husband wife to for kind of rare um different issue but um uh we uh met with some neighbors um yesterday that were selling their house and they were shocked to share with us that they just found out that um the people weren't going to live in it they were going to VRBO it and they were being be it out so a number of us neighbors were getting together and talking about um what were maybe some thoughts or concerns about that and and um I was shocked to go online and and find out that there's no rental license required of any sort in Forest Lake um is that true I guess first is that okay um we lived in Blaine prior and we rented out our house when we moved here and we also had another house we rented out um that we originally had gotten for a um sister always had to have rentals you know it's a safety issue you know fire codes you know not to mention all of the issues of what's the protocol for noise what's the protocol for can you have 45 cars in the driveway can you have you know parties of 75 so I just encourage you to look into it and say is there something we can have because you can hardly go a week without looking on the news and cities all over are saying we got to deal with this because it's bubbling up all over the place I don't I don't begrudge anyone opportunity to make money um that's fine but we need to have some basic understanding so neighbors aren't thinking one thing and and the owners and the the renters that are coming in are thinking something different so I just encourage you to look into and see if there's something we can even take you find that's great from another city and let's grab it and use it okay so thank you for your time thank you for your work thank you so anyone else that would like to speak in open Forum this evening Jolene do we have anyone online not to speak your okay yes yes if you come to the podium uh Eugene hell 10234 204 Street north um I would agree with the gentleman um the reason is because some of these homes um can have they rented out they might rent it out to a party and uh it can be loud and it's and especially on the lake and whatever and have some problems and I was viewing the Scandia meeting the other week and they have some real problems on bone Lake and they there was no there's no stipulations about what they can have and do and stuff so I think it would be a good idea to you know make sure that there's some type of rental agreements or whatever with the city thank you thank you anyone else like to speak in open Forum all right not hearing anyone we'll um close open forum and bring um bring the meeting back to council for the consent agenda Council for your consideration on our consent agenda this evening is 6a through 6K I know we have a um suggestion to move 6B off of consent and so with that I would move that Council approve 6A and then C D through K is there either a second or any other changes a second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and our consent agenda is approved M May I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes from the June 10th 2024 regular council meeting very good there's a motion is there a second I'll second we have a motion and a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose abstain one abstention motion carries and we'll move on to our regular agenda our regular agenda this evening is consideration of 932 2nd Avenue Northwest um let's hear um let's hear first from um aby's going to walk us through um consideration is for um both a public hearing and then there is a comprehensive plan Amendment for Council under resolution 6242 2403 and then also a zoning map Amendment um Abby if you could just give us all information we'll do a round of questions that Council may have um after aby's presentation and we'll open it up to public hearing and then bring back to council for consideration sound okay sounds like a great plan thanks mayor Bay and members of the council Ellison Donnelly of 9322 Street Northwest and Doug aminon have applied for a two-part application it's a comprehensive plan amendment to change the subject property from rural residential to Highway commercial as well as a Zone Zing map amendment to change it from rural residential to limited industrial included in your staff report tonight packet were a series of maps that highlighted the properties that the property that we're talking about give me just a second I'm going to zoom in a little bit more um just to the north of oops of the intersection of Highway 61 and where 8 starts to go into 35 up in that northwest corner is 932 2 Street Northwest it's kind of oddly addressed um off a Forest Road there um it's been used as a daycare center for a very long time the applicant or the property owner did um Market this for some time unsuccessfully wasn't able to find another child care business but has found Precision exteriors would like to purchase the property and convert it into their um office and a warehouse for their business needs um included in your packet to was showing the existing land use so this is our 20 240 comprehensive plan our future land use says that we want to keep that rural residential however just to the north of it and again the only other property really accessed off of Forest Road in this location has um that future land use guided as Highway commercial the highway commercial guidance really is for businesses that support the community um this comprehensive plan excuse me the zoning map Amendment also guides this or has this zoned for Rural residential the change would be proposed to go to The Limited industrial the B3 zoning District um the rural residential guidance is a little odd to staff um these are the sorts of questions that staff ask how did we get here um we think that it's likely because most of the property was undeveloped because it's got a very high amount of wetland and dayc carees are allowed in the rural residential district that we didn't change this and guide this for that Highway commercial however in looking at it and looking at some of the goals in the comp plan are natural resource goals of the protection of the existing Wetlands on the site we talk about housing infrastructure um staging there currently is no infrastructure in this area no Urban infrastructure planned for this area um and generally our Economic Development goals really want to make force Lake a good place to conduct business so trying to find ways that we are um making property more eligible for business businesses to be able to change over is a good thing where appropriate um the city did uh participate in a neighborhood public meeting on May 29th 2024 there were members of the public there that were able to talk with the current owner and the future owner um Planning Commission did hold a hearing on June 12th 20124 that was a public hearing both um based on all of the information included in your packet the public opportunities um both staff and the Planning Commission do recommend both the comprehensive plan Amendment and the zoning map Amendment so tonight for your consideration you have a resolution for the comprehensive plan Amendment and an ordinance for the zoning map Amendment both of these as written in the conditions of approval indicate they don't become effective until the Met Council has approved that comprehensive plan Amendment so as a reminder we start the process we say this is okay let's go forward and submit to the Met Council if they're in agreement then the whole thing can be finalized does the council have any questions for me I don't any questions Council my only question is how we ended up here and I think you answered that with the previous land use um and from my perspective it makes sense to consider the changes as made um counil any any questions before we open up for public hearing all right um with that we are going to open up the public hearing if you are here and would like to address Council on this topic um I invite you to come to the podium now and we'll open the public hearing anyone interested in this topic I'll ask Jolene is Jolene is there anyone on on line uh no interest for a comment mayor okay keep it open just a few more minute few more seconds not minutes all right not seeing anyone come forward I'm going to close the public hearing and bring conversation back to council Council for your consideration tonight and Abby I just want to confirm that I've got this right it's two two actions requested is that right that is correct all right um looks like we may be ready for a motion unless anyone has any discussion topics I'll make a motion to adopt resolution 0624 2403 approving the proposed comprehensive plan Amendment I'll second there is a motion and a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I I I oppose motion carries Mad May will make a motion that we adopt ordinance number 739 an ordinance amending the city of force Lake official zoning map resoning property located at 9322 Street Northwest uh P ID 0532 21. 42.3 from rural residential to B3 limited industrial commercial very good there's a motion is there a second all second we have a motion and a second any further discussion on this hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppos and motion carries all right our next item this evening is item 7B which is resolution 6242 2404 which is accepting a donation from the chamber for the veterans memorial and the very generous sum of $1,000 and with that I would approve that I I would motion I would move that Council approve resolution 6242 2404 with gratitude is there a second a second we have a motion and a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I I oppose and motion carries that ends our action agenda this evening we do have one discussion topic um a lengthy discussion topic with a lot of information um and so as we move into this Workshop session um you will find us in a more for a less formal setting more informal anything that we discussed related to this Capital Improvement plan item um that will require future action will come back before council at an official meeting so with that um I'm going to turn it over to Kevin and get us started thank you mayor and council members uh so including your packet as mayor Bane said is a lot of information related to our Capital Improvement plan uh so there a little uh background for how we got to this point uh for the first time last year the city council adopted that 10-year Capital plan this Capital plan is an important part of the city's budgeting process as it lays out not just what we're looking at for the next year's budget but how future years are going to look and how decisions made for next year's budget and how that can impact future years down the road um with all that information provided the city did implement the new capital planning uh software this year therefore you see it's different from what was presented last year where it was pretty much done on Excel spreadsheets I want to thank the department heads for uh the amount of work to dat did to submit all these forms to myself to help compile this information as well uh this software uh looking at it um just from this first year looking at it it's going to be a big benefit to City staff as it will be easier to update annually going forward it provides a lot more information on what we're buying for example a pickup truck well what is that is replacing this unit number it's a new truck because of increased staff or things of that nature so it provides a lot more uh descript on what it is and justification for why things uh might be need so this is viewed as a big benefit to staff but also city council to have that information in front of you as we work look at this 10-year plan and update it annually u based on our budget priorities Workshop that we had earlier this year um it was that one of the priorities was to keep going with this plan and maintain that and make everything in this plan of priority with that and also from that um work set session were a couple new items that came out of it that are built into this plan one of them being the city uh Aesthetics and median Landscaping those are included in uh this plan they are slated in for 2025 and 2026 split with 375 375,000 in 25 and 30 350,000 in 2026 it's important to note that currently these are just being held in fund 211 which is our improvements fund where streets are normally funded out of but that there is not a specific funding source tied to that meaning is it a special tax levy to pay for that is it issuance of debt as we need to have some further discussions on uh is it what type of scope we want for that for those Landscaping projects also one of the priorities was a downtown Shoreline slbo launch projects uh staff uh slated this in for 2026 um right now it's put in there for 1 .9 million uh dollars and with that dollar amount uh staff determined that if to move forward with this uh plan that debt would be issued uh for that so we looking at this the 10-year plan is review an update an by staff and city council uh included in your packet is all the purchases in the 10-year plan from 2025 through 2034 while it's important to look at that 10year and understand what's on their hor Horizon so we can uh plan for the future we really encourage city council to look at the next couple years the next 2 3 years to see if there's any specific questions that you have um for projects or purchases that are coming up as that does guide us into how we will what needs to happen at the preliminary budget meeting in August this will get shared um with our consultant Ellers who is helping put together the financial management plan to update that going forward as well so really what uh we're looking for at this meeting is to answer any questions you may have any guidance or changes that may that you would like to see so we can uh share this information and get that built into a comprehensive financial management plan as well as prepare for the preliminary uh budget meeting in August uh so with that this uh maybe help discussion there's a lot of attachments on that were included with this um if I believe it is on let me just get to the page quick it' be page 129 of your packet I like this one because it breaks it down by the projects by year it shows 129 yeah uh 129 yes it starts it this breaks down the projects by year so starting in 2025 and going forward it so as I said really looking at the whole plan in general right now but really focusing in on those first two or or three years uh this shows those projects that uh staff has slated in for those years um for the most part these projects are what was presented last year there were some changes made based just on as we said we review it annually can wait a year project costs have been updated uh the nice thing about this software is we can add inflationary numbers down the road so based on the trends we're seen in certain purchases our costs going up 3% a year can easily change that so we know what it's going to cost in five or 10 years and things like that so uh with that I would just open it up to any questions you have on whether it's the process of this new software or if it's specific questions that you have maybe on projects or is right this presented for that informational purposes that this is what will be seen in that August uh preliminary budget meaning unless staff hears otherwise so Kevin one of the things I appreciated about the format last year and this is great don't get me wrong but maybe it's in here you can point me to the page but like just looking at the park Improvement fund for example where we've slated all these projects you had a spreadsheet that kind of show okay this fund balance is going to be evid and flowing is that in here somewhere that is not in here somewhere and that will be coming later on once we send this to our consultant with ours and the full financial management plan and also in that August is um Workshop so when you see like the park Improvement fund that when I looked at it internally where these projects are slated in there they're following the same Levy projections that were last year and is broken out by if it's the park Improvement fund those are funded as pay as you go type projects meaning that there's fund balance there there's is either supported by tax levy Park dedication funds or some other Revenue source that has the city has uh received and for projects for example that are bigger Parks uh Fenway comes to mind those are slated as Park Improvement bonds as a funding source saying that if you want to do this project that one's a few years out if I remember correct there will be bonds that are going to have to be issued for that so yet yes it is coming it this is more with a change in how we're we're doing the budget this year and with this new software we getting these projects out in front of you to see um if you have any questions on those so then we can get those slated in to come the B the budget in August we have your priorities we have your direction for where you would like to see that Levy at so given those constraints that we've already uh discussed we will get we will get those things slated in there to make sure that we fall within that um those guidelines and thank you does this um um does this plan reflect the funding levels that were anticipated last year so last year when we walked through the plan we had kind of general fund funding a certain amount and we cut we cut that for 20 but then we cut that for 2024 but then that number was anticipated to go back up for 2025 is that kind of what's contemplated in the current expense levels correct you're you're right right now we're following the same plan where generally speaking everything for 20 has been slated in is still um consistent with the plan that was presented last year like for example a park Improvement fund we had originally proposed last year to bump that tax levy up to 500,000 uh Council uh increased that up to 100,000 but in that 10-year plan was that we would be coming back with the $500,000 Levy in 2025 this plan reflects that that is the plan and following that same plan as last year streets keeping streets consistent for what it was bumped up to last year Capital Equipment fund following the plan to that we want to pay for this equipment as we go and not issue equipment certificates like I said this is reviewed annually cost increases so there might be slight adjustments for that to keep going especially if we're looking at paying for example fire trucks in the future to have cash available to pay for that instead of issuing equipment certificates like we're having having to do this year so all that will be coming to council this is um a new process it's different it's kind of a transition year for how for how this is looking it's more that to follow the uh calendar for what we're looking and what's been given the council before just want to get these out in front of you now so if there's any specific changes or questions you had we can stay ahead of the game one thing I I think I may know this just from conversations with Christina I'm not sure we've talked about it at the council level and I just want to validate that it's that it's correct so I understand that providing this back to Ellers Ellers going is going to do um some more should we say sophisticated Revenue modeling right so that the levy impact will have some better um Can someone tell me what's better about it I I don't want to I'm going to misstate it if I attempt so what Ellers is doing this year is they're put is a more of a comprehensive plan is taking this plan and then also projecting out on taking our general fund and all levies and with that you're we're going to factor in growth projections which we're not only see well what's the percent increase in the levy it's going to show what's it do to the city's tax rate based on growth projections what's it going to do to the dollar increase to each house by every year not just what's the increase for that that given year so it's a more comprehensive tool that will show more of that information uh than what you had saw last year last year's this well here's a percent Levy increase for the next 10 years based on our Levy now I'll be like well this is what our tax rate's going to do based on our plans and growth projections is it going to stay around for example that 40% or you going see that increase and also show what's a what's again due to the average household um increase and in their property tax bill as it relates to the city our is assisting with that this year with the plan that I will take that over next year um just with all with everything going on just to get help get that implemented and started um looking at it is something that um it'll just be part of our annual updating process the template will be there or update any projections and growth any changes in the tax levy any changes in our 10-year plans rolling into that model so we consistently updating and using that to help guide us in the current year budget with the understanding of how does that affect future years and how can we better plan for that Christine mayor C can I just um because I know this is new and it may be harder to understand when you haven't seen something new and trying to understand how all the pieces fit together when there's still some to come right this document really like Kevin said your focus should be on the next year or two and focus on if you want to do those projects I think if if the issue of whether you want to do it or not is the impact on the taxes you'll see that when you see the ERS one but try and think about are these the projects that you want to have coming up in the next two years because that obviously impacts what they do um so if that kind of helps you understand how the pieces will eventually fit together to get to where I think you all want to want to go and understand what the tax what the impact is to people's pockets on this this is that first step of of looking at it and is it is hard to track in here with the way you have so many different funds and uh staff has taken the Liberty to decide when you'll bond for things versus when you'll just use straight General Levy and those will be discussions once you start identifying issues with the tax levy amount where we can talk about options maybe to address concerns that come up later mayor yes please question question for so it is this budget time conversations do we have a workshop to go through some of these things I see some pretty big ticket items like 1.4 for the shoreline thing that I just don't know if we've had much conversation there's one of $700,000 to replace irrigation at Castlewood that's tonight this is your Workshop this well this is the workshop so we want you want us to do a dive on some you know again it's a lot so focus at least on the next year maybe two years you know as Kevin pointed you that that um sheet that shows it by year because I know there's a lot of projects in here I would focus on those um until you get more familiar with it then there will be less change and you'll understand yearby year as this goes on and we'll be able to more easily pull out and identify the new changes versus everything that's new to you this year so I do think if you see something in 25 or maybe 26 that you want to talk about that's what we really wanted to hear back from you tonight um and and we can talk in to the level and and um Kevin will know better than I you know how we plan to fund things whether it was borrowing General Levy Park dedication funds whatever it might be um but that was really the hope for tonight that you could look at at least next year hopefully the next two years um so one a couple things stood out to me as I looked at as I just kind of scrolled down and I was reviewing more for um timeline on when projects are being introduced and then my own personal knowledge of generally what's included in that project and and I was kind of trying to gauge my own comfort level of are does it seem like it's on Pace like yes I'm going to be ready to make this decision given what I know right now and couple things stood out one is I I would say broadly and I I know the park Shoreline is kind of a last minute ad based on our last discussion but given the proximity of that and the size of that project getting that vetted in some more detail around that I think would be helpful um and then broadly somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I'm just remember ing Parks all of the park projects coming into the 10year plan a little late in the process and with not a lot of detail and so I think when we saw it in the in as that 10-year plan was rolled out there was some desire on the part of council to certainly understand more of what was being contemplated and it's probably also the time of like yes a park commission would be fantastic to also have helped vet through that um as I was looking at more near-term projects it's this Lakeside Memorial Park just making sure just given the size um specifically the shoreline project it's just given the size and making sure that we are ready to dedicate that amount that soon so mayor that makes me um think of one other point that I think is important for yall um to understand the last 19294 pages of this is really those project details each project has detail now you will know um what's in there or at least you will I have a bunch of red lines to go over with staff in a couple weeks to try and pull out that detail so you know for example we know this now because we went through the exercise with no short Trail if there was a trail plan for that right let's have that in our have it noted whether or not it's included in the CIP before you get to that point of you know doing specifications right at least you have that high level understanding of what that costs include so I wanted to I wanted to mention that too because I know it seems overwhelming but understand that those last 192 or so pages are really just that's CU there's 192 projects you have in here and each one of them has that level of detail so but sorry so if you wanted to dive into the Lakeside One um if you know what project number it is we can look to that um to pull up the detail just had the project number or whatever other questions you had the other one that so the other one that jumped out at me um was the proximity the size of the um storm Southwest storm water project and I know I I suspect this is the project we're getting State bonding money for um and so it is partially I maybe fully funded but also um Council will be asked to make some large decisions on a very large project um I think that's one of the things too that I'd like to work with staff as far as the financing there's nothing um there's no grants funding source in here right so or bonding or you know outside sources that's not like whether it's a de developer donation or a grant or a state bonding um and so these numbers can look really scary if you think this is all coming from tax dollars too right and so I think we can continue over the years to refine this to better identify that and the you know the boat launch for example the conversations I recall from Eda and Council was you know we probably weren't going to go through with that unless we got grants yet in the project you'll see that it's you know there's not a uh an amount set aside for Grants and and similar with the Southwest storm project I think it's Capital approvement fund Kevin I can't remember which one it came out of but it it's not a general Levy dollar that needs to go in there so it is not until 2027 so it's a little outside that two two-year time frame it's just a large project and and I know there's a lot of moving pieces it was just as I was flipping through it was one that jumped out at me as as to we haven't had a lot of detailed conversation on it and that's a good point I was doing some research with um Ryan's help and we probably want to move that one up a little bit I think 2027 is when we have to spend the State dollars by so we might want to get going on it sooner so the touch maybe this Lakeside um the shoreline project is a good one to just kind of together do a a dive onto the detail that's Parks um it's project Parks 10 if somebody's got a page number on it I do not uh and it's on the details are on page 213 of your packet thank you so this is one one example here where with our budget priorities it was me it was identified as a budget priority for Council where to keep our priority we need to keep it on our radar so we so working with staff we put it down in the put it in our plan so we wouldn't lose sight of it and slate it in for 2026 so going into that there is work that needs to discussions need to be had is this a direction we're going is that that dollar amount is at that scope is at that capacity where in previous years it could be that well yes as a priority nothing happens to it well to get this turned around in 2025 didn't seem feasible didn't seem on based on our plan where we needed more time to look at it and more discussions would be around it so therefore it was put in for 2026 I think the important part for Council to keep in mind I know this is different and uh with concern to Levy none of these items in here when you look at the bonding or tax levy is any different than what was presented last year meaning that if we were paying with it from a tax levy last year that's the plan this year if you're seeing bonding for Northshore Trail or bonding for a public works facility and other uh Street projects bonding was identified last year or bonding this year or Bond excuse me the the sour is planned bonding for that now it might have shifted years I know some things shifted for example in streets what year you know eure was SL to go next year in the plan last year well now it's getting pushed back a few years because we have to wait for certain things with the DNR 12 Street got moved around but keep in mind it was bonding the plan was to bond for it when we did 12 Street now the bonding might just be happening a different year because of when we can slate 12 Street in so I know so to Christina's point and my point previously it's a lot of information is different um look but when you look at the detail breakdown of the fund and then broke it out by debt there are funding sources that are there as part of the plan that was there that will be shown uh at Future meeting dates whether that's a tax levy whether that's State bonding Bill and then it was as Broken Out by debt issuance issuance so it was clear that if this project is to move forward we're going to need debt the city is going to need to issue debt for those projects I think so if I understand though Kevin the exception would be the new projects that were not in last year's ten years so the two that he highlighted at the beginnings would have an impact and maybe those are two that are worth discussing since you haven't in previous years um so again the the Lakeside Park the shoreline stuff is another 1.4 million in Parks bonding that you hadn't planned for correct last year um and then as he noted the median Aesthetics was 775 um that we haven't identified a source for whether that's bonding or general Levy dollars over a couple years you know those would be things that if we could get some feedback on then we know how to tell Ellers how to handle that when they bring that back otherwise we'll just have to make our best guess and you can react to it at the next meeting but was there any reason um short of council Direction on the timeline for the shoreline was it just we sat here and said yes that sounds great let's do that as soon as possible or was there another reason why the why that timing was set for 202 is it 2026 on the shoreline that was directly from your Workshop upstairs where you had identified priorities for consideration for the next year's budget so we didn't necessarily even take it and look at how I know at the time you had said maybe look at how you could break this out um we haven't done that yet we haven't done any sort of Greater analysis or brought in any other outside Consultants to look at that but it was exclusively just based on that Workshop upstairs of things you'd like us to consider for this budget because did I also see there's boat launch dollars in a separate line item is that right correct there is there was two that came out of that study I know feedback feedback on the shoreline study spend mayor ban if I might just also add um something will need to be done to the launch um in 2025 as a reminder our um our lease agreement it's not a lease agreement but our agreement with the DNR is up the launch needs some work if we keep it in that location um or relocate it we will need some funding we believe in 2025 or potentially early 26 but I think as soon as we start uh our DNR conversation um we would like to have some funding to move forward with some sort of either reconstruction of the existing launch or relocation depending on the things that we keep finding in our conversations with the DNR well as far as that Shoreline reconstruction I mean I think I remember right from the visual I mean there was a couple Concepts but they contemplated the um lending being removed so I mean we got to either decide if we're going to rebuild it there or move it probably before we can know the scope of the shoreline rebuild and that depends on whether or not the land is available you know at what cost at what cost absolutely has there been any conversation about that lately at all we have not heard from the Lander we did reach out to okay them because land acquisition still not contemplated right correct these costs do not include land acquisition I mean I I can appreciate putting it there as so it doesn't fall off but I think there's a lot of unanswered questions before we can say yep let's check may move B to 27 then is that what I'm kind of hearing on some feedback maybe well to ab's point though I mean something's most likely going to have to be done with the landing or The Landing part but the shoreline if that is we're going to be down there working I don't know I mean did did that the price come from that study is that where we got the 1 Point that's a pretty comfortable number is that based on what what was proposed based on what we have right now I think um we've seen that as plans refin and we develop construction plans costs are increasing they're not going down from our estimate um one thing I will note too that's also in the um Capital Improvement plan specifically for Parks is the construction of the Veterans Memorial meet with them later this week but I have had a conversation with the committee chair about construction fall 2526 so just thinking about the construction in Lakeside Memorial Park in general how long we um as a community want to tolerate that phase is that that sort of thing might be something to consider I I struggled to I just struggled to see us um having boat launch pieces solved for and us and this project designed and fully ready for execution um and and maybe also just having a little bit of heartburn over the the near-term nature and the size of we've had a lot of Park projects on the list for a very long time and so this one Leap frogging up um just causing me a little bit of concern yeah I I just I don't I would agree I do though like I think the decision does have to come quickly here is to are we going to leave it the boat launch at the same place or relocate it I don't see any way economically we can afford to purchase Lake Shore for a boat launch just to add to the park just similar to why we said no to a trail part of Northshore it's I don't know how you do that um so meaning that to your point about having to get it you know it does need some work like people use that and it needs to be dredged out or whatever want to do the decision needs to be or we can leave it there and if so let's at least spend maybe money on that because that it's be used a lot people it's Val you added to to the public and so we need to focus on that I don't know about the Lakes Shore piece but if you are down there doing some work that maybe you can scale back some of that plan I I haven't really I know the Eda approved that and was it was their thing but I haven't really looked that close to it I think one of the things we talked about was the opportunity to do it in phases if I don't I don't think it all had to be done at once right like there was a kind of a total if you did everything together and maybe that is just the most efficient um maybe just given what we know today in proximity maybe the answer is focus on boat launch get that a little bit further built out and understanding like decisioned and if that means the shoreline gets pushed a little back this is also where I'm I I get a little um I struggle with making this decision without seeing the full list right cuz I might say well yeah let's just push it out a year and then pushing it out a year might mean something else bursts and it's just untenable so having that broader perspective of Levy year-over-year really helps this decision I think we are being members of the council uh we do have a meeting with the DNR in a couple weeks so I think um towards the end of July mid to end of July we might have some better guidance on um our existing partnership with the DNR their willingness to extend that the idea of potentially moving it cost Associated all those things that could help probably add to this conversation um because you I think would like to see the shoreline stabilized staff would say that that is still a priority because we do have some ongoing work um it would be my recommendation that at the moment we we keep it in but as we kind of work a little bit we refine those numbers because I agree that it's unlikely we going to be able to get that whole thing done in 2025 or even reasonable or feasible or all those things but it's likely we could probably break that up a little bit better after we know more about that boat launch and some of the other construction projects that are going to be happening in the park in the next two years so maybe we consider so exactly what Abby said and then you're kind of we're taking the lens of what does that look like from a park experience for the shoreline the boat launch and the Veterans Memorial potentially all happening around the same time so which and M because I want to just kind of continue to help Orient you guys to this new planet um when you say you want to kind of see everything laid out I know you mentioned the levy but I also at one point in time heard you mention the other projects that had been in there and so um there is you know at the bottom of 151 there's the debt issuance for parks and then at 152 we have the park Improvement fund so the parks are kind of separated based F if you're going to be using um just general fund dollars or you're going to be doing debt um 151 do you 151 and 152 so debt issuance for Parks is on 151 and then Park Improvement fund on 152 so if you want to just look at Parks from those two different funding sources you can look at those two pages too if you think that these projects should be laid out in a different order and just to carry on with that the Park improvements that are of the park Improvement fund on page 152 you see belts Park you see Manor Park um with the exception of the improvements of the infields and at the golf course um where you see those parks that is exclusively in the order of they are up or pass due for their scheduled Replacements these aren't necessarily um just you know fun to do for the neighborhood these are are end of useful life Replacements earlier in the packet there's parks and trails and there's a couple different Parks funds it looks like am I seen that correctly it's just a different description on what it is like Parks parks and trails means we're doing Parks we're doing some Trails like within the parks as well where um it with Parks it's just you know more playground equipment equipment Orient or basketball courts things of that nature so that's where if you if you're interested in Parks since we're uh you know looking at parks that's where you can go to those project details you could pull out one of them you can go there and it'll give more details on what's happening with with that project they'd all come from the park either they would either all come from the park Improvement fund or debt correct correct and that's how it's that's how it's currently broken out so to my point earlier if it's in the park Improvement currently if Council uh follows what the 10-year plan was last year to increase that Levy to 500,000 this fund would be able to take care of the projects as it is currently laid out where again if if we're not going to if we're not going to go up to that amount then that's where staff's adjust we move projects around uh to to get that to reflect what those funding levels are and rep prioritize given a direction um from Council on how that looks same goes to the park Improvement the debt issuance for Parks if it's something where we don't want to we don't want to do this project then that gets taken off that gets pushed back whatever the direction from Council is is on that is more specifically that if you want to do Fenway for example and I think it's five years if I'm not or in 2028 as when Fenway Park Redevelopment is there's going to have to be that issue there now whether that's 28th 27 29 those are discussions that we have as we get closer to there but it's more that to Black Council know that that's where that funding is coming from or if it's down in the park Improvement fund these are from the tax levy these are from other sources that uh Council has approved or committed to to fund this plan okay Christine did your earlier point about some of these numbers not being netted out against other Revenue sources for other government entities what does that do how does what does this FL through to hitting a budget somewhere because you know the um work in the southwest as an example or the airport fund I mean we know that we get you know historically 95% funding against those costs so to see we're going to spend 1.4 in 20126 that's not out of our pocket right and so that's some of the detail that I have to work through with staff as they learn this new program I've got got notes on that and I think um my suggestion would be to go back and on those project details where you see the funding sources um for airport for example 95% of them would be state would be grants or bonding or whatever we want to call that I don't want to create too many so sometimes I come up with a donation grants whatever to to essentially somebody else is giving us money and then the 5% would be what's coming from the airport fund as opposed to just showing it all coming from the airport fund um that would be one of my suggestions so then when you ran the airport fund Source you would just see that 5% these numbers wouldn't be as large as when you look at the airport fund fund now because it has the whole 100% in there and you would have another funding source on on page 145 where it has your funding source summary you would have another again whether we want to call it grants donation State bonding whatever we come up with um and you'd be able to um break that out so you could more easily see that this is of all this 188 million x number is really coming from somebody other than our taxpayers or through our property tax levy I know State money's tax money too but so I think that you know this is as Kevin said staff did a lot of work it took a lot of work to get it to this stage well you'll just have to keep refining it um over the years as they get more familiar with it as they tweak it um you know in one of my previous cities Council really wanted us to um call out the new projects and so we would have a category rather than active or completed but a new recommendation and so as these came back year and year year after year you would just focus on the new ones so then it's not so overwhelming um we really want to see you know what your reaction is to it and how it can be the best tool for you um there's a lot of things that that Kevin can do this is an access database so it's really a lot easier for him to manipulate than that Excel spreadsheet and run different reports in different ways um I think that's the the um the greatest um benefit of having this planet program it is a lot of work upfront that they they have to get it in there but now it'll be just tweaking it so that's what I would recommend to get that point of um and we'll have to do that when we sit down with Ellers anyways because they're going to want to know in order to figure out what that tax impact on folks is how much of this is actually going to be money that the city has to Levy versus getting from other sources well one specific project or area that is little bit concerning is I wonder what the general public would think about uh the city spending basically a million dollars in the golf course in the next 3 to four years that jumped out at me as well the Abby your comment um that those were improvements is there currently an irrigation at the so I had said with the exception of the golf course and Fenway improvements there uh Dave could speak to the infrastructure better than I could at the golf course okay it's just slated in just like playgrounds or anything else that's it's past its useful life and it's a placeholder in there I mean can be moved in or farther out or what whatever it's just that's the $26 for what it would cost to replace that irrigation it's you know it's old PVC pipe that that way have 203 brakes a year and new valves and the whole pump station is on its last leg so I mean can limp it along like anything else it's just that's what it's going to cost uh I mean that's your investment in your golf course if you want to keep a city golf course and keep it a nice looking golf course that's the investment you got to make so it's just like a lot of of the other things in here that's we're just getting cast and putting it in there and plugging it into useful life to your your point I think that's one of the areas where there's just certain projects that I feel like we've had more discussion on and were have been more thoroughly vetted and others are have been just placeholders knowing something was going to happen at some point so worth some more discussion for sure what year was what year was that that's a 2020 it yeah the irrigation is the biggest number and then there was 200,000 for cart card paths and then T boox I think was another 80 or something okay yeah so irrigation is 26 but the T boxes would be next year so again this would be the time don't wait till next year when Dave's done all the work to get the quotes to say you don't want to do it I really encourage Council to to you know focus on that next year and if if you don't think it's something you want to do for 25 give us that direction now to push it out till 26 um and again Dave obviously can speak to how much money are we how much time and money are we putting into doing whatever maintenance and that might help you in those decisions but um it gets I'll just throw this out there it gets frustrating for staff if something's in the CIP for next year and then all of a sudden they do the work to bring it to you and you don't want to do it so I really encourage Council to to make those tough decisions this year for next year the other thing I noticed on here that I don't I'm just full transparency there you you have three Bobcats next year one's for water fund one's sewer and one's storm manage or water coming out of those funds is that how do you justify just using a bobcat than just for sewer projects or can we use it for other uses or uh there's one skid steer charge to the streets want utilities and there's not technically a Parks one in 401 so that one is the tool cat which is used it at all the turf so it's three separate pie equipment used in three different departments one's a track skid steer one's a wheel skid steer and the other one's a tool capat with drift tires and but they're in different they're in different ears councilman Roberts I think your question is like um I don't know what year those Bobcats are in but when you say you see it in the water fund sewer and storm fund as one as one skid steer funding split between three different sources oh so then that's where going if you're when you're looking at this you see that if you go to the details page that's where it's funding is coming from those three funds where it's a little more specific on on where that funding source is come where it's one one unit coming from three different funds since all those funds benefit from that one unit I misunderstood your question yeah so I'm taking the three departments and splitting that cost in thirds whereas on the street side you're just taking that one full full payment makes sense when I saw 30,000 for a skid start that's a hell of a deal then so yeah yeah it's that good by [Laughter] three one other thing I noticed that's not on their um the building maintenance fund I mean you get some work out in 30 2030 2031 on the senior center there was a lot of conversation if I recall last year about this building and need to keep updates is is that in here somewhere that I'm not seeing so that's some discussion that staff needs to have internally with that plan it was a plan that was put together but then nothing much done after that so when I reviewed that plan this year to try to get this into here there's a lot of things on there that in my opinion and this is where conversations need to happen with SC staff and Christina that are just normal maintenance and operations that need to get built into maybe an operating budget and not necessarily capital in nature so that's for more discussions need to be had on on uh on those type of things where um when you're exactly right like looking at last year the bilings there are a lot of things but nothing what I what is really considered capital in nature you know painting and you know things like that might be something you need to do but more of an operating type budget item so those are discussions that we need to have that will come back in um later later the next month in in August to see what gets um fil fit into that um capital structure okay thank you and one of the things I would recommend that the city look at too is what your Capital Improvement policy is um to that point I was shocked when I looked at a 192 projects feels like a lot but you're a bigger city but then when you look at the detail I'm surprised that you would put things that are hoses and ebikes like things that are heav I I I forget what the level is is it $5,000 or less Kevin um it's it's a pretty low threshold that you have to get into your CIP and my point being not that these things shouldn't be funded I don't want anybody interpret it that way but those should be things that you just put into your operating budget um I I in my previous previous two communities it was a $25,000 minimum before it got in here otherwise you're you're just planning for it you're going to need to replace hoses every year you're going to need to replace bikes every year you're going to need to replace some of the small trailers and public works every year um that might be something to think about and the money is still all coming from your general tax levy whether you take it from the levy and put it in a capital Improvement fund or equipment fund or you just put in an operating fund so it's not a a financial impact but I think it might make your Capital um improvements plan um a little easier for you to digest and you'd really just be focusing on those big um sub substantial projects not just keeping things going that they've already been doing so it's another thought I I'd share with you all I like the idea of addressing that policy especially given inflation yeah I would I would agree I every side everything there's a flip side right and so then that just puts more pressure on the operating budgets and you need that you know that review at some point but it probably fits better in an operating budget than it's really hard to even pay any attention to something something with $10,000 when it's sitting next to something that's 1.3 million so it just yeah we might think that there's a level of control and having it on here but in function it it still gets lost so um are we at a are we at a spot where it makes sense to I guess kind of further review on what is on 2025 2026 um anything else that is kind of jumping out that we haven't had a lot of discussion on I me I mention I mentioned this only because I see it as a larger line item later on so Manor Park is is slated for just a small 125,000 in 2025 um but that is slated for a much larger project that I think is part of us cont lating what's happening with the Public Works building there's there's potential there and um so I don't know if that is properly slated for next year or not but Tower Park would be the one that you would be referring to than I have my Parks mixed up I retract the full comment thank you I'm mayor B so concerns a tower Park uh this was put in the plan last year as um when the public if the public work facility it's approved and a new one is built what are we going to do with the existing location and turning into the park so it was slated into uh being uh turn into a park in the later years uh I decided internally not to throw that into uh Park bonds because currently when when the public work facility would possibly go forward or get built when this would happen it didn't seem appropriate necessarily to put that in a projection that it would be happening um whether it's in year eight year 10 or even year 12 or things like that because it's not this building the public not this building Public Works facility possibly it's okay now that that's built now what what are we going to do with with this location is it a park is it something else so just again something to have on there so we don't lose sight of it that there could be something large on the horizon coming forward just so we don't lose it in conversation it's we don't want to be putting together these plans and these priorities and not having them held somewhere so they don't constantly come up whether it's staff turnover or other reasons that uh so when someone new comes on that hey what's this Tower Park they can pull up the project details and see what it says so there's a least background there as there's Council turnover as well that okay this is where the direction are going this is a discussion that's been happening uh just to keep that conversation moving forward and we did push the Public Works facility back a year from your 10-year plan last year just because we haven't gotten going on it this year so it feels like you're all just trying to digest it tonight right and so I I'm hesitant to even say mayor can we recap what the direction is because I'm not sure it's there I I wonder if it would be helpful um to bring this back as a discussion item on our next agenda and I'd ask director um Kopek to just pull out and do a presentation on those things in the next two years and talk through them with a little bit more detail on those the the project stuff more than you know again hoses or ebikes or trailers or whatnot um is that something you feel like you need or do you have some feedback you want to give us tonight to take I think I I think that would be great I you look at belts Park so we're at 1.1 but we're doing 600,000 this year so is that it's an addition it's an addition we don't have no plan for that we don't have a plan right so I mean is it in detail maybe it is it is it is and by the next meeting council member Robert SP a little time on an administrator search here this week so I didn't really I'm there an opportunity to be more focused on 25 and 26 I think yeah I I think taking the the feedback we've given so far right which has just been uh scattered and and um not I would maybe classify it as scattered um so taking that feedback and then us walking through with some additional detail um would be helpful I think also it's just it's just us also just having some opportunity to ask questions about this new layout um it's a lot of great information um future years we will have the benefit of what Christina mentioned which is you can just we can talk about what's new um or what's shifting but there's just a lot to digest um in its current form it would be nice to have um a little bit more public not notification on this I mean we just the five of us we might have certain priorities but I really like to hear from the public on some of these things like again million dollars on a golf course uh 1.6 you know 17 on belts just to get get their feedback obviously yeah so I was surprised to learn that you don't have this this as part of your um comprehensive plan that's right used to hold the public hearing through the Planning Commission separate from the budget but you will obviously have your open house and um public hearing on the budget later this year as well is there you know final adoption won't come until December so I'll let you change your mind between now and then and this might be out there and correct me if I'm wrong but is there place on our website where anybody member of the public could go to our Capital Improvement plan and easily see that I I believe the 10year plan is there and maybe we could add a draft uh the 10 the uh 10year plan that was approved last year in December is on our website along with our 20124 budget so that document is out there um we can't put this out there if it's a direction of the council to do that um if there is going to be further discussion on it I I would maybe be hesitant to put that out there unless you feel otherwise this adds until we maybe get to that preliminary budget stage is where I'm accustomed to seeing things put out there um but it is something that we can consider as well and our packets are all out there in public I mean it's already out there I would if if we're going to put it on that website I would maybe make sure to title it draft draft to Kevin's Point put a draft watermark on every page just my draft um I I also I think we should note the Milestone right like a year and a half ago this didn't exist and then you know a year ago it it started to you know all come together and now we're talking about it's kind of we a nice Milestone of okay it exists and now how can we get the information out there so that's all um so positive so is it possible just to rerun this with just the two years and then the detail Pages for those projects in those two years and get to us yes little less a little less to digest I do think it's helpful though to have it all out there right I had to I got a question at the end of last week on hey has the city ever talked about a dog park or where are we on dog park and I I could say oh actually we're going to get an updated timeline on Monday and could send a quick message out here saying so here's where it is it is helpful to see kind of when those things are planned so um is that enough direction for another discussion yes okay that's I think so this is a mountain of work so I appreciate it getting us to this far it's nice Improvement all right I think we are at the end of our um planned discussion topics we can move into staff updates and Jolene no updates Amy um the only update I have is the Arts in the park it's in full swing um hoping tomorrow night there won't be any cancellation with we have country night with Gary groden good Christina no updates Amanda no upates Dave uh just one update about about uh the wheat Harvester I don't know if any of you guys have gotten any comments so the the conveyor is sitting at the access or an access on Beach Drive um we used to keep it in Woodland Drive but there's been property ownership changing and we don't we not able to keep the Harvester there anymore um gotten a lot of residents concerned with that um I've told many of them that the Watershed and Lake Association are very happy that that's blocking that because they want boats to go to Lake one Lake 2 and Lake three the axises where there's people checking boats so we don't bring more AIS into the lake um I hope Council be somewhat supported of of that so we can keep that there we don't really have a place other another place to put that Herer so um if you're getting more comments you can have people call me but um we can also have a discussion about that at the next council meeting if we want to try to find different spots but technically really isn't a a lake axis it's a city property that happens to just have been used for decades as an AIS and I've told a lot of them to that we're not taking away winter AIS that you'll still be able to go out there in the winter it's just um a place where we have to unload the Harvester and like I said I have support of the Lake Association The Watershed are both pleasantly surprised that that is sitting there that year to keep people from going out there are they using it for motorized boat access most of most of the calls are I can't get my pontoon in I can't get my boat in can you shift the conveyor over so we can use it to get in and off the lake um I mean it's been like that for years it it may be just a learning curve um you you all know Jerry grer that's been here for years preaching to us telling us to put bear crates across that that Landing so um he's very happy that he's been getting complaints that it's blocking that um so just making you aware you're probably going to get some calls but unless otherwise directed that will stay there for the summer to for the wheed Harvester yeah I did notice it there I mean it's been an amenity that neighborhood for a long time yeah that the the few I've talked to do understand about the As and not wanting but what's coming in and out of there and um I understand it's a local one but also you're not stopping anybody who knows about it to come in and out and who knows where they they came from beforehand so that's all I have thank you for the update yep Ryan mayor City Council updates unless you have any questions uh Chief uh yeah for pretty much every city Department the last few months we've been planning and organizing for the uh Fourth of July festivities and especially the last couple weeks and we're ready for so we're excited and uh very good hopefully we'll see everybody sounds good Chief Newman no updates and Kevin no updates very good I would just broadly ask we've had so much water any do are we having any any concerns issues anything we should have on radar uh the lake is quite High there's a lot of docks even the city dock was underwater on Saturday um Clear Lake is up to Eureka um localized flooding Pioneer Point some of the cult secks are underwater just because of there's Third charge back the lines um but nothing super major a lot of houses that are taking in a lot of water that are thinking they're water main breaks and we have to go and test the water just to show them that it's ground water coming in so hopefully we get a week here where everything kind of dries out but it also takes a while to get back through the ground and everything to level off um all the channels coming out of uh Forest Lake all the way up to comfort Lake were backed up uh last week was backed up all the way to Apple Beast Pond I mean everything was overflowing so it's going down now um but yeah it's hasn't been anything super major just a lot of a lot of water some dry weather right road construction projects any delays or we're a little behind where submitted schedules at the pre-construction meeting but still well within the contract specifications uh they're still making good progress on the local Street project started on the south end of the project and got 184th paved they're going to be Paving South View by the water water tower here here is it tomorrow or Wednesday and then we'll move into the next stages of that uh a couple projects haven't started yet but they're still well within the specifications the storm water BMP the only thing that's left out there is site restoration uh those I didn't try anything today just thinking with rain coming tonight if it happens but hopefully this week that gets finished so and that'll be done okay okay how uh stated Highway threee Everton Avenue obviously is in the middle of major construction so I drove through that before I came here tonight it was easy to get around so for the local neighborhood that's west of there I know the two Hidden Creek Apartments will have a water main shut down Wednesday but that's been well coordinated um so they know it's coming that'll happen at night so okay very good Council any followup questions all right Miss Council update counc member Roberts nothing this evening council member valento no updates council member husik uh no updates tonight council member ER none tonight and none for my none for me either um that is the end of our planned agenda I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and we're adjourned thank you everyone [Music]