[Music] good evening everyone tonight is November 20th 24 2024 it is 6:07 p.m. and I would like to call to order a joint Planning Commission and city council meeting our first order of business is a Pledge of Allegiance please join us I pledge the alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda for tonight I'll make the motion to approve the meeting agenda and is there a second this is Scott I'll second any questions or disc discussion I'll call for the vote starting with Ron Ron I Bethany I sue I ly I Scott I Janet I Susan I Rob I and Jesse I so the agenda has been approved but before we go further I would like to introduce our newest member of the Planning Commission Susan bous Bouch Bouch coach with a be all right so she lives up on on Kettle right or on Broadway Broadway by the tree farm yep oh nice so yeah thank you for joining us thank you forgot Robin oh Robin uh oh how do you vote on the agenda Robin you're on mute oh we can't hear you yet thanks thumb you could put your thumb up put your thumb up if it's an ey Tada all right so anyway back to Susan thank you for what you have signed up for thank you for all the work you're going to do and everybody welcome welcome thank you thank you sure I look forward to it and it's B Bouch Bouch bouchou with a B just like it's spelled so on quickly to item number four the approval of the October 2nd 2024 joint Planning Commission and city council meeting and I have been informed that we're going to remove the remove that until the next meeting because there are some typos or things that didn't get printed out there's some things that I missed in there so we'll bring that up next time on to item number five a public open forum is there anyone who would like to speak at the open Forum in person or online seeing none we'll move on and uh our next issue is the presentation and discussion of the Cannabis ordinance so who wants to take that Dean I'll start so in the last several weeks uh elanar and Megan and I have had a chance to talk about um first of all the original draft of the ordinance and then I finished that and forward it on to Megan and you have a uh an edited version of that and my handout to you is just numbered one through what 18 or 1920 uh and we'd like to cover them in that order and they're in sequence in the text tells you what page number what reference and what the issue is and there will be some questions as we go along some decisions and at the end there are some final things that we need to do and any other comments recommendations or changes that you have that weren't included um in U what Megan and I U put together we'll talk about our our goal is to get out of here tonight uh not only as early as possible but with a recommendation maybe to set a hearing but we'll see if how many questions you have and so let let me just start in that page one uh you can see on uh Megan's highlighted version of the ordinance it's highlighted in blue um this is an issue throughout the text after our last discussion and before you saw this draft of the ordinance which was dated October 18th um we had talked about the state potentially creating a licensing uh program or registration program for the lower potency hemp Edibles which are are not and you have some in your community now we put them in as a placeholder in this document and that uh was one of the first things that Megan flag flagged and simply said under this definition of retail business if we're going to leave lower potency in then we got to make sure we are going to do that and add them to the licensing Provisions along with the other retail businesses we didn't do that because we're not certain we want to do it we're not certain the state's registration is going to happen sooner than later uh and even if they register the lower poent uh it may be allowed to exist without our regulation and the the um originally when we first met we handed out um the um draft ordinance or u a model ordinance that was prepared by the office that um indicated in there that this is strictly an option for you and we we need you to give Direction One Way or Another but there will be a lot of changes in this document and we'll we'll hit them as we go through uh but the big question is does anybody want to go out of the way to regulate these or do you want to leave it the way it is now I just have a question and I how this would fit in but um do we know how Forest Lake regulates like nothing but hemp cuz I was at a vendor show last week and they had a table and they're giving out samples and selling things what if they came to Fall Fest and wanted to be a vendor do we have to have a some type of license or restriction for that I I would say this if it's lower potency it fits that category it's not an other cannabis category with the higher levels of THC and they're currently not regulated it'd be no different than somebody bringing caramel apples to Fall Fest okay because we're not regulating them and I don't think any of us uh envisioned that would we would create regulations that were unnecessary it's just that this draft of the document sets it up and you'll see it in the section later that identified uh the potential to regulate these we added them as categories in conditional use or interim use section and if you don't want to do that it's all coming out you would leave it unregulated the way it is today and if the state regulates it it doesn't mean that we have to in the direction that we predict and and so just to follow up these are the products that have been permitted since 2018 2019 in the farm bill um and so they are the they there there there is THC in them um but they most importantly are sold in a number of your existing retailers and we want to be thoughtful that if this is something that the city does want to license that we create a separate license category to preserve those existing sales um so that we're not restricting your existing retailers rights to sell the products that they have already um been selling at this point in time so Dean what you're looking for is if we want to add a special category or not does anybody want to regulate these raise your hand if you don't don't raise your hand I I think I think we predict where you're going but I can see Janet has a no I just have a question for Megan why would we want to I mean what would be the pros and cons of obviously the cons are it's more work and you know why but so why would you want to regulate them so I don't think that there is a significant benefit in regulating them I think that they have functioned very successfully at this point in time without any sort of known harms um the only reason to regulate them is that they are within this category of products this is the opportunity for us to set up the licensing structure to do do so uh but I I do not think that there is a strong policy basis for adding this to your your new regulations okay thank you if if the state I'll just add um if the state decided um that we did have to create some form of Regulation we're going to have a couple of years to do that right now their position is that they're going to register them but it it wasn't implying that communities have to and so we honestly don't any reason to do this and so all of those definitions that included the low potency Edibles or even the hemp consumer products you don't want to regulate t-shirts and all that kind of stuff just because it says hemp on them so we'd pull all of that out of this draft the only one exception was a low potency edible manufacturer we need to add that as a category and identify what district and there are two that we would leave I think that was General business and Light Industry but as I say when we come to that we we'll highlight that and so if your direction is what you um seem to be giving us then the definition this first item would eliminate low potency and it'll it'll it'll be the heavy duty stuff that's all we're going to regulate and license all right everybody do we want to regulate the heavy duty stuff and not the rest of it anybody who wants to regulate the heavy duty stuff raise your hand well I don't think that's the question it's the it's the do we want to regulate you have to regulate the heavy duty stuff but do we want to regulate the rest of it oh anybody want to no no no sir okay Dean there's your answer the second one I'm going to turn over it's on uh page three it was a um uh it almost looked like a a a duplicate definition place of public accommodation and public place I had inserted public place because it was included in ordinance 23-6 which was our canabus in public places nuisance uh provision and Megan was going to look into that she was just worried about language exactly right uh and so the original definition of public place incorporated and we do not use it frequently um in terms of how we're regulating it this is a nuisance category um as you may recall we adopted uh a no smoking policy within our public parks already and that's been in a place for a number of years um so a public place is currently defined is as any publicly or privately owned place that is open to the general public regardless of any fee or age requirement including but not limited to Parks Trails sidewalks streets parking lots plazas shopping areas stadiums or sporting facilities um so what I would like to do is uh limit this definition um to be uh more reflective of what are our public uh regulation areas and so restricted to Parks Trails sidewalk streets parking lots and any uh publicly owned uh property uh because my concern is that uh if we are so we're the the impact of sort of regulating a larger scale public place with the breadth of this definition would be to be regulating all different types of thcu um within any potential building that's open to the public um and unlike non-smoking bands or smoking bands um tht could be beverages it could be served at a local bar or restaurant um and so just the breadth of I think of that I think means to start a little bit more narrowly um so it's guided towards where you're allowed to utilize um these substances any questions any anyone so uh this is Rob question on the uh the park thing I know we did that it was it was a couple years ago now I think we changed that that ordinance or about uh use in the Parks and things does that then exempt them from like say a Fall Fest if it was like a full-fledged uh THC that would that would eliminate that for us right yes and uh in term if if Fall Fest was to have this as part of its offerings we would do that as a THC special event and that has um another section that that fully regulates it as well sure so like in that event like the the Lions they had to have a fenced off area would that be a similar thing it would have to be somewhere where kids couldn't get at or in have to get a RIS band substantially regulated absolutely perfect thank you no other questions then next one on the same page um the issue or the question from Megan's perspective was perhaps think about um starting out one and we can amend the ordinance and do three later as you've heard me say with the competition um that's happening uh the limited market we have the absence of existing buildings or facilities that are adequate for somebody to come in and easily lease and convert to a business isn't as likely as we think we have to have one keep in mind uh if you have more than one application it is first come first serve and if you had a second or third application you could come back and amend your ordinance and say we're going to have two or three or whatever but um I think early on in the process we talked about is there any local interest that might really be uh pursuing this opport Unity from a retail perspective and if so the risk is that somebody else beats them to the punch and they take up your application but it doesn't prevent us from amending our ordinance saying we're going to issue more than one so so this is Rob on this topic I thought we had already voted on this and that was the ti we did but we've we've brought it up for a discussion each time so here's my we voted on it actually twice so here's my thing is we we discussed it and we voted on it twice and it was three so we e I just feel like it's it's being keeps coming up and once you vote on it we should stick it shouldn't be waffling back and forth because we have people watching us on how we're going to handle things and if we keep changing our mind all the time and it was voted on twice so I feel like that's a that's a pretty significant thing that now where we going to vote three times and then we're going to change our mind then we really don't know what we're doing well I I'll fall on the sword here as the as the new person to the to the ordinance drafting party uh so just as a some background um and and understood that the three um has been voted on as the preference of of the boards uh the the approach that cities are sort of taking um is to ensure that they're calculating the number of potential users and allow making sure that there are sufficient licenses for the number of users that are required under the law and so for the city of Edina for example they have a minimum of five retail licenses that they need to issue or have available now who knows if there are going to be five retailers they are going to select the city of course um but that's their minimum and uh they elected to go with five similarly um the city of Bloomington has a higher number number of licenses that uh that they must provide they went with that Baseline number so the trend has generally been from a legislative perspective to start with the number of licenses that you are per that you must have and then always can amend those upwards um and and that was just the the underlying policy basis for suggesting this for uh your for your discussion so I have one question this is Sue and I was a proponent of the three because we wanted to leave it open for uh we just didn't want to hinder anybody's business but is there any other reason because I you know in thinking about it it we really don't know what all of the regulations are going to be and it could be and we just don't know what what could happen um by allowing three so can you see any other reason besides what the other cities are doing that would be a benefit for us to go with one instead of three it's just more control on your part uh so in terms of process and this is something that Dean and I talked about along with Eleanor uh the the process itself is in terms of becoming a licensed retailer is quite fraught and um in the last day there was just an article announced from the office of cannabis management they rejected I think 2third of the social Equity applicants those applications were just rejected as being insufficient um so the the path toward lure at the state is going to be a difficult one uh and I think that you all have talked about sort of what the process looks like here which is they will need an applicant will need to identify an area within the city within a PO potential retail space um that would be appropriate for their use they'll have to check that with City staff and ensure that uh the zoning their reading of the zoning ordinance is accurate and City staff will have to sign off on that not on a conditional use permit or anything like that yet um but to have the location established then they'll go up for lure um and they'll have the that vetting conversation with the state office and then once all of that is finalized they can come back to you for their conditional use permit and their local license um and so I think the the question is the benefit of having a a larger number of licenses is it allows sort of a running track record so that if someone comes in applies for for uh does some of the initial zoning review then goes for licensure is licensed um or maybe is held up in the lure process and then someone else comes in that you have uh for a different space perhaps then you know they they haven't put the effort into engaging with the city uh and then have their the one license taken now that process is going to take between 6 months to a year from start to finish for a new retail license within the state of Minnesota so if you had that second candidate either you can have it as part of having three permitted underneath your licensing ordinance or alternatively when you have that second candidate coming in you would have plenty of time to amend upwards so the benefit the true benefit is um is just having stricter controls to start uh and to to license like uh within the the very limits of your Authority uh as compared to being more flexible and those are completely policy choices that are available for this board to make yep so I um and I Lynn I understand what you're saying about you know we did vote but it was just a direction we weren't voting on the actual um so I would be okay with rev voting if everybody else is I mean I'm okay with it I just we've spent so much time y each meeting and now to H I mean now we have a different perspective cuz you weren't here when we were here but it was just um I mean I seen it on the on the agenda and I'm just like how many times do we have to be you know keep doing something and is there really a Ben the benefit to go to one that great or you know but now we have Megan's perspective which we didn't have before so we can revote I just don't want to spend a ton of time on it and anyone else Rob no I I only brought it up for the point I thought I thought we'd moved on for it but I'm fine if we want to revote so yeah but just feels like I'm a carpenter you put a wall up tear it down and build it again that's the point it's so much easier to put up a wall so do we need to vote again or are we or can we just say one I think we're looking for consensus in terms of what to adopt within your ordinance and present back to you now you know you're going to get a chance to vote on the entirety of the ordinance when we we we hold the public hearing but um but no I think that we would like to hear individual consensus basis here so that we have a sense of um what to finalize in our ordinance would you concur with that Dean it's pure policy I have I have no preference and since we invited Megan into the process she is always going to offer a different perspective and you know you you listen to it and it if you want to change it doesn't matter honestly yeah you know I so we've introduced new information here and I don't think it's inappropriate to to get a consensus feedback it takes what 30 seconds to vote uh again now considering the new information I think it's appropriate yeah all right everybody we're going to have a vote then so what are we what are we V what are we voting on so you're voting one or three either one or three what we'll say one just say one to one okay and then do yeah so I'll call the is there a second for a motion to adopt one what's the look we don't have to do a motion we don't have to do a motion okay what a consensus then for only one one permit starting with Ron up [Laughter] we start on the other side I'm okay with three okay so that's a no on the one oh that's what you want no y no I I for one I for one I'm changing my vote for an i for one and that's we can do that I I'm just going to say I'm fine with three and I'm fine so so no okay yeah I was one before I'm still one I'm one I'm three Rob three and Jesse oh sorry Robin three three you got to find your unmute button there and I'll go for three so what's the total three counselor three I think that's three that's still three so that's three wonder if somebody's keeping count six to five all right okay so what's next so page four when um when we first spoke about the licensing Provisions um the state had come out with a one-page checklist if you will and that language in the law was when they make a preliminary referral you have 30 days to act on this and I wrote this provision coming up with the notion of a preliminary cannabis license approval and after we talked about it Megan uh Megan's conclusion was we are allowed to have the language that unless they are fully vetted and have an approval from the state we're not we're going to reject it and so her first striketh through uh 4105 eliminates the necessity for that and and that again was to merely meet the state's uh request that we respond in 30 days and so what we'll do with that is to say if they if they send a referral to us that says Uh there's no zoning District we're going to reject it and say we have no idea if they have a zoning district and it's eligible but they haven't come here and talk to us about a local permit we're going to write they have a box and we're just going to say we can't approve this until we go through our process and so that's what's said in 41006 the revision is that there they're not we're not going to respond favorably unless they're licensed by the state and and this really follows our um our traditional Planning and Zoning path here um you know there are times yes there is sort of this complicated licensing structure at the state level that they'll need to that hurdle they'll need to jump through to to open but that's often the case um when a business comes in looking for a potential site and so um from a policy standpoint what we would recommend is that the the city adopt an internal policy for its planning and Community Development team to respond to requests from potential lenses uh about whether or not their proposed site is within the zoning District um to add a supplemental sort of pre-licensure or pre-approval lure um I think unnecessarily creates a property right in that pre-approval license um that is not been vetted by the ultimate uh licensing board with the state um and for us I think in terms of from our Public Safety and nuisance conditions questions uh our our most significant review is going to be at that State level making sure that the applicant can comply with all of the rules um the state has put into place and the and the background vetting um that the state is going to do so uh so in terms of process and again this is sort of what I was describing when we were talking about the number of of potential licenses in terms of process uh the the the state will still send us that form uh we will respond to it as we are available to respond to it and as is appropriate in terms of where the potential lensy uh desires to locate yes it can be in this zoning District no it can't be in this zoning District or yes it can be in the zoning District subject to these particular conditions uh then they'll go through their licensing process and they'll come back to us and they'll seek a local license as well as all of their zoning approvals once they have the state license in hand so initially Megan commented that this licensing procedure can take six months maybe a year in in the amended laws this year it indicates what they have to do if they are vetted in the first round so they get a a preapproval part of that process says in the new language in the statute that's when they come to us they go to the bank they find a site and so for them this still aggravates me you know I was upset in the beginning to say you have 30 days to approve it and by the way if you don't we can we can approve it uh was nonsense when you really look closely at the law that says they don't have to have a site they don't have to have anything it's their preliminary vetting which is why that preliminary approval process was put in there if we can skip that and that's Megan's Comfort level I'm all for it we don't want any more rigoll than whatever but after somebody gets preliminary approval they've got six months to a year to go and get all of their final approval from the state including coming talking to us and so this is simply going to say they can't come here without having something more substantive we may reject one that had no contact with us they're going to start contacting us and we can start going through the motions of our formal approval but it's going to be contingent upon the state giving them formal approval also it'll it'll be two step so what Megan's done simplifies what seemed like nonsense to begin with and so I'm happy and if you're in agreement uh one5 will come out of there and then we'll rewrite the other okay good everybody's on the same page I do have one quick question and I don't know if it's related to that or not or if we're going to talk about Megan your um your couple Pages your memo in here separately um but there was one thing about um and was on page your page two page nine of the packet that first paragraph talks about about um how Bloomington and Edina regulate their business similarly to the city aligned with the state law includes background checks site specific compliant investigations and annual renewals is that something that's in the state regulations or do we have to put did they put that in there and we have to put in there about renewals and yep so we have an annual renewal process within our lure period just like we utilize for our alcohol licensing so our cannabis license will look almost identical to your existing alcohol license oh okay all right thank you all right the next section um is u under 410007 uh Megan suggested even though we have a number of these Provisions in our performance standards that they be reiterated or at a minimum uh this list be included in the licensing Provisions I have absolutely no problem with that other than uh you'll see in item a uh which talks about hours of operation we're going to strike lower potency hemp Edibles and and hemp Drive products because we're not going to regulate that they won't be subject to those hours so whatever hours you do if you'll go to page uh 12 on this list we have retail hours of operation uh as a part of the performance standards and these two sets are different what I gave you um in this first one and it has a note included on page 12 where I explain the state allows these to be open or excuse me the maximum was uh businesses would be closed between 2:00 a.m. and 8. a.m. but we can require opening at 10:00 a.m. instead of 8:00 a.m. we can also allow them to close at 10 p.m. instead of 2 a.m. we've never as a group really looked hard on what those are but keep in mind this isn't going to affect the the current low potency it it'll be these new retail shops period just the retail businesses and you have have to have a comfort level we you know we've got the racetrack and liquor sales there at late hours do you want this to go to 2: in the morning or is it 10:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. because the what um what's included on page four are different hours than we're on page 10 and this is pure policy I could care less uh we took what the state indicated was you know cutting back those hours starting a little later in the day uh and closing a little earlier at night but if you want people to be able to buy pot until 2: in the morning the state allows that so we just have to pick because right now we have different standards yeah and so I I just wanted to say I looked at that one in particularly and went why in the heck would we do that if something is open if we have a business that's open it's open till 2: in the morning why would you stop saying telling them they can't sell their stuff between 10:00 p.m. and 2:00 a.m. makes no sense to me at all so if their hours are till 10: p.m. well that would make sense but I I I don't know why we would limit the hours kids are in bed by 10: usually so it shouldn't matter I I also have no opinion on this uh so whatever ever the council and the Planning Commission recommends is excellent okay if if you were owning operating your own police force a lot of communities look at this you know what are the issues why do why do bars uh close perhaps at midnight on week nights and maybe 1:00 some communities go the Max and they're 2:00 this is pure preference my only point is to uh note the difference in the two section and we want to make them identical so you need to decide what ours are suitable any other opinions besides Su I'm just really confused are you suggesting are you saying that we should make the retail and the micro business the same hours or because the micro business can sell to on site right so are you just talking about the retail or are you talking about both we're this is strictly retail Licensing in this provision so this is the dispensary that's being regulated by ours just like a liquor store and so the the state says we can't require them to open later than 10:00 a.m. but they allow them to open at 8: a.m. except Sunday that's 10: a.m. so again people come up with the numbers it's what your comfort level is do you need to have a dispensary open at 2:00 a.m. that's what the state would allow you to do or are your other retail businesses pretty much done by midnight but on page 12 it does include the micro business in the hours that's why I'm confused so under I can't find page 12 either page 12 way down here it under L under L okay you that's why I'm confused under l y I'm sorry that's my page number in the original ordinance it may be different in your packet page the packet it's uh page 22 sorry about that okay that's okay and which letter L so again I I think that the distinction between these two areas is one is our retail license and the other one is a performance standard related to the zoning ordinance uh so the retail hours of operation on page 12 are limitations on any conditional or interim use permit that is issued for either a retail business or a um or a let's see micro business and um whereas your your retail license ordinance is just related to those retail shops only so that's why it's limited but again the um the retail the oper the hours of operation should mirror one another in in both sections so this is Rob um currently there's there's liquor stores that are selling these things already right and they're regulated from whatever the liquor store hours so it'll be easy just to match what they're doing I mean well you're are you talking about the low the low there's THC drinks not the highest stuff though uh 10 10 I don't what's high that seems high to me yeah maybe not in Columbus maybe you can go to bills you can go to MGM you can go you go wherever you want and buy it right now right up next to Quick Trip GC then I'm really confused I thought that this ordinance was regulating something different than what's already being out there now so those the products that you can purchase today in in bills or at MGM are all the low potency they're okay wow yes high potencies like just it's a whole new world Rob Rob thought it was pretty high how does that feel Rob it's all new to me have you been spending too much money for something so I guess my thanks for clarifying that so we need to match but I guess my question is if we are going to uh dictate the hours of business for these cannabis retailers they should be able to sell during the hours that they're open so if we are in in this on page 12 are we saying these are going to be their hours of operation y their maximum hours maximum hours of operation if they chose to close earlier that would certainly be within their discretion okay so as long as their what they can sell is the matches their hours of operations I think that there's no restriction on what they can or can't sell many of these businesses will have the lower potency items and then the question there would be well wait a minute um are you restricting our sales if we stayed open past your midnight deadline can't we still send sell the lower potency technically yes they can yeah and they'll have both they'll have the low potency and the full stuff and so this is going to be Rewritten where we're not regulating any low potency so whether they're going to the gas station to get that or a new dispensary they'll have the same opportunity with the lower potency but the retail stores or we had to include the micro business because it has a retail license also it should have the same hours as the dispensaries and so the question is do you want them open until 10: 11 12 the the suggestion here was um you know moderate it it was not the maximum uh 10:00 in the morning till midnight uh on certain days of the week and then more restrictive on others you just have to pick it again it's a non-issue for us where do liquor stores go they can't open on Sunday till what time I think it's 10:00 huh I think it's 10 11 is that the same hours they have here I did not bring my code book that's where we would find what time does church get done depur to we'll see what well G I thought it was 9:00 a.m. or is that off on sale uh we'd have to look we'd have to look at chapter 4 do you want to mirror the ours identical to your liquor that's the way I look at it well yeah Y what time is it I'm looking up with G will would you call it whiz okay G Will Liquor I don't know cuz I you have that on quick dial so sue one of the things you said I was thinking about like the one establishment we have in Columbus which is running ases so they're open 24 hours but they have to stop serving liquor at 2 or whatever the time is so that would be an example of where they can't sell all the hours that they're open so when you say you like to see them be able to sell I mean if they ended up being one of our licensers lenses they would not be able to sell all the hours that their open but because the state would limit that so I mean I'm I'm with Ron I mean I would mirror the liquor hours I think it's simple so the liquor store in LOL Lakes is open 8 to 10 Monday through Saturday and 11: to 6 on Sunday I think you're right about 11 not that I ever go to okay but that's off sale not on sale okay here we go talking on sale all right I've got it I'll tell you what your ordinance currently says thank you thank you uh so for liquor the hours and oper and oper excuse me let's start over again the hours of operation days of sale shall be those set by Minnesota statutes as it may be amended from time to time except that the city May provi May by resolution ordinance provide for more restrictive hours than the state law allows uh so at this point in time you defer to the state law on hours of operation for liquor and uh so as as originally proposed in the zoning ordinance we could simply defer to the ocm standards uh for Max operations and that would be consistent with how you treat alcohol okay so then that would um like say for example if Running Aces did have one and they were selling it where they sell alcohol they could sell that till 2:00 when they sell their alcohol and then they'd be done yep yes as currently uh permitted by the office of cannabis management okay and that makes sense to me I like that I'm good with that simple same I like that it's simple so do you need a consensus or what would you like I think we have it that we the consensus that I'm generally s I'm sensing from the boards here uh that we can align this with the state law and that's sufficient in both sections very good thank you okay moving along and my page five not your page five uh I'm sorry if you look at the small print on on the handout that you've got it has page five of 13 um there's a title revision at at the top uh Megan just thought this is let's call it a compliance check not an age verification it is what it is but um comp liance check is fine um inserted in here is a requirement if we do cause a suspension that we do have to hold a public hearing um that's consistent with due process for anybody and so Megan's inserted that um she in inserted another sentence in the bottom of that paragraph about reinstating uh when they've been resolved by us or o ocm um and those are all appropriate revision so we'll make those um and then on the next page 4-107 um is another um is another title change I want to change that again uh not only add temporary event but call it cannabis temporary event because that's the title we use throughout um so that's the only change there at the bottom of the page um uh even though we probably have 12 or 15 severability Clauses spread out in our city code Megan thought it would be appropriate and I don't disagree it's kind of cover your rear here that's exactly right this is an evolving area of the law so whatever gets you know whatever all the cities get told we can't do these things all right well we strike those and we move on with the things that that are are have been upheld so on page eight um and we're going to we're going to have to go back I circled a lot of these after um Megan did the initial revisions uh we've got to screen this more carefully uh there may be some minor changes where we're removing other references to lower potency through out where we're not going to change what we're doing now and that's no regulation so uh that was just in that title that'll that'll be removed in that title uh the next one is on on page my page nine um and that that goes back to the same revision however we revised public place in the first one it'll show up in here and the reason that there are double sets of um definitions uh they are different chapters of the city code and so it's appropriate we add those to the licensing Provisions the ones that are relevant and then these are in the zoning chapter and so the duplication seems odd um at the bottom of the page and this isn't on your list but I'm on on page nine still and um you'll see there I added uh in terms of these um additions for um conditional uses the lower potency that'll be stricken throughout so those additions were placeholders they'll all be removed um the next one is Pages N9 and 10 uh uh yeah that's all of these references except on page 10 uh is the first of two that I mentioned where we do want to include in our um permitting Provisions the lower potency hemp edible manufacture that'll be a regular business uh and and that's appropriate to leave in but other lower potency hemp uh generally are going to be eliminated in this process um and I'm on page 11 and this is um the other provision about the maximum you voted on that this will stay at three for the time being and if you see fit to change that as Megan said we can come back and change it um the next comment and we're going to come back and talk about the ultimate permitting um Janet's asked that we haven't resolved that interim use conditional use so right now this is structured differently the only thing we were talking about interim use permits was in addition to licensing the Cannabis events uh they would be in interim use and Janet is asked are there others in here and and we'll talk about that at the end is that fair yeah can I just ask a question because I was reading this in the minutes and about you had made the comment at least in the minutes it reflects that the events are private private well so what it says is heglin asks about current ordinance prohibiting smoking in public or or P sorry in public or public facing um places how this plays out with the temporary events Johnson states that these temporary events are closed in private making them not a public place so I'm trying to if that's true then I that doesn't Recon reconcile with how we're defining it in here and I don't know if that's just how we're defining public in the in the context of the events versus something else so I'm confused yeah and I'd have to go back and listen to the tape how that if that was taken out of context it it should if it if I actually use the definition that we're debating public place that's different than uh you know public itself right I I I think the point is right now under the states um and and this is another thing that Elanor Megan and I talked about the state it's not clear but in certain sections it becomes more clear that these cannabis temporary events are a oneandone licensing provision with the state and originally um that was not clear in the statutes and we think it's one and done so somebody gets an event license they're going to get it for an event that is announced to the state they would send that to us we would still license that event and then we have to determine the language is that we would issue an interim use permit for that temporary event I don't know if this is clouding the question that that that you initiated um the location of these is going to be for all intents and purposes unless it's like a a circus event where somebody's got a traveling show and and they've got their own fencing they got their own uh lighting they've got their own security system and they've got tents that they're going to put up these are going to be in existing buildings and we don't have any I mean we don't have that venue set up right now for this event could somebody come in and say the whole lower level of the hotel is going to be a public is going to be a temporary event potentially but that's one of the few places in the community in my mind that you're going to see this and so our regulations for those temporary events is a structure it's it's not going to be a tent environment that was one of my questions to the state that they said ask your attorney yeah you know well and just to go back back to how the public place definition is utilized within the zoning ordinance it's specifically tied to prohibitions on public consumption so it says that no person shall use cannabis flour cannabis products or lower potency hemp Edibles let's just circle that and tell me where you're reading please um oh I'm so sorry this is on page 11 of 13 section 4 7 A- 825d under public consumption uh in a public place or a place of public accommodation unless the premise is an establishment or an event licensed to permit on-site consumption of adult use so uh we have our place of public accommodation which is what's going to capture all of your licensed retail facilities and then you have your public place which is going to capture all of the property owned by the city of Columbus or other public venues uh that again those are definitions that feed into the overall restriction here which is that in order to hold an event and consume these products on site that are the high potency full THC all of the things uh th those people need to be licensed and they also need to have uh conditional use permit or an interim use permit to establish their use so what I'm thinking about is you know once a year say running Asus comes in they get an event permit they have multiple things that are listed under each of those um and that might be true you know I I think about the dog I mean obviously they're not going to be selling uh THC at the little you know Whip It races but that was another example where there was multiple events all under the same um permit because they just G so how would that work for this so so let's say that runny NES decides that they want to include this in some of their events or maybe even all of their events so they come through and they get their event permit from us like they have in the past we're going to run we're going to do you know ABCDE these are this is what's going to happen there and we're going to sell THC at each of them when you say it's one and done I don't understand that that's the state so the state has an authorization for someone to be an event organizer they get the state's license and it appears best as we can determine that it's one time so to use your um question or analogy about Running Aces they could come to us and say we intend to go to the state once a year uh to be licensed for a temporary event can we add that to our list of other interim uses that you grant annually well part of that if you remember we required very specific information depending on what the event was right security you're hiring outside cops where is it uh is it closed to underage persons we'd have to get all of that but yes I think you could add it to their annual list and one of the conditions would be that you obtain the state license and it's one and done because there is no renewal provision annual renewal provision for an event organizer it's the only category everything else is you're saying so you're saying a place like renes would go to the state they would give them a license for an event forever no no they get it they they have to submit the dates and they have to submit all of the participants the the statute was clear it said up until 3 days before the event you can change in writing to us who who's coming if there's a change right up at the last minute so that license won't take 6 to 12 months to get like the retail one again we could be set up to where we can respond to them quickly how long it'll take the state I can't tell you because the application by any event organizer is date specific it's people specific it's location specific and I think that's why they ultimately said this isn't an annual license that gets renewed because the venues are potentially changing all the time so I'm I'm thinking the closest analogy in terms of existing regulations is something along the lines of charitable gaming uh so when you have organizations come in and seek a charitable gaming permit for you for a particular event that is the model I think that's being replicated here and so the I think the structure of how it will work at the state is you have an event promoter who has an established relationship has the all of the paperwork put together is a you know a reoccurring user and has already a background check on file with the state they'll go to the state they'll receive their event permit to hold their cannabis event in Columbus Minnesota uh the state will then say is are these events allowed in the zoning District in Columbus Minnesota they will simultaneously be contacting staff and asking for an interim use permit to operate uh a cannabis event on xstate a contingency of our interim use permit will always be that they have a fully they're fully licensed by the state and that they have a temporary event permit in hand on the date of the event the event will then occur assuming they get their state permit and then their interim use permit will automatically cease upon the completion of the event and then if they wish to do it again the next year um they would go through that whole process all over again so is there a difference between an event that has been um organized simply to sell cannabis products versus an event for other things but they happen to be selling cannabis projects just because because they're also selling alcohol or they would they would sell alcohol but they're going to sell I mean so that that's I was trying to get my head wrapped around is like is this is this speaking just to the events that are being created simply to sell the product or is this for events where the organizer may choose to also sell THC products along with whatever else they're doing at the event can we sell alcohol and cannabis at the same no we can't do that that's that's in the statute yeah can't but they might sell it instead of is what tobacco or alcohol well that's that's a retail right I mean I I so this is it's getting confusing to me because I can see more the ladder where somebody has an event people are going there to recreate they want to be able to sell this as part of the event but that's not the purpose of the event see what I mean it's more just part of the recreating part of I I don't think that the flexibility that you have for example for alcohol where you where like for example the Lions can set up their area at fallest to sell alcohol I don't think that that um that there's a mirror image of that concept yet in the state and it certainly isn't within your ordinance at this point in time so so the example that Lynn brought up where somebody wants to sell THC at Fall Fest as part of a product that would not right now that's not being contemplated so I think they would need to have I don't believe that it works underneath the statutory construct because a retail license has to be located to a has to be tied to a physical space um and I think that's probably where you'll have your low potency hemp edible providers sort of sitting in that role as vendors um but that certainly would be an area for us to explore to see if there see see if there has some been some guidance about a more vendor relationship as compared to a cannabis event which is really you know sort of like a cannabis convention is the way I think of it yeah I think that's what I'm confused about I understand that concept but I would guess that we would have I mean especially with Running Aces that you know they may at some point want to do this as part of their event that they're sponsoring and they have a lot of them and if they had it somewhere separate then like they had it in the hotel where they don't sell alcohol but in the casino you can get alcohol I don't know how we deal with that but well I I I want to try and hit a couple of things that came up Lyn asked earlier about a low potency activity um one of the regulations that was added to the list under licensing um is a state requirement and that's one that will not be pulled out you can't use a vending machine for any products including low potency and the state law regulates age for the sales of low potency okay everybody's got to be 21 and none of those products not full cannabis not low potency can be given away as samples so if your person said I want to come to fallfest and give away some gummy bears they can't do it in spite of the fact that we don't currently regulate it the state is regulating it and there's no samples you got to be 21 and you can't have vending machines I just don't see anybody wanting to spend the money to get a license for fallest you know I only asked about the low potency because she has a store in Forest Lake and she does that but as far as cannabis who's going to want to spend that much money for an event like that and and you know you you'd have to be sitting here in in the guise of fallfest which is family oriented are are are you really encouraging that kind of activity I I wouldn't think so it has to be Totally Secure you have to manage all entrances and exits at temporary events you have to separate sales areas for each vendor so this is a multi- room or parceled off area where each vendor has their own spot they can't at temporary events have free products you can't have samples in any of these and you can't use vending machines and so I think we do need to look up is there a way for somebody to do hemp products at your event like we do the lions for 3-2 beer for the weekend I I don't I I don't it's complicated and I don't know that the rules are there Megan I don't I I don't think they are uh so the the statute doesn't have good guidance and the um the guidance on ocm does not really draw a distinction between these two things so I think that's a great area that's yet to be uh yet to be explored I have a question Dean what can we do to make this as simple as possible for staff I mean if you sold a semi load of gummy bears it would make no difference to the it would have started with having one instead of three huh I said it would have started with having one instead of three well so Simplicity I think for people that are familiar with the business it isn't going to be complicated how they are going to get through the licensing uh maybe because there were almost 1,200 out of 1,800 applications rejected period out of the list so there's some six seven 00 left and out of those uh the the pool to issue licenses is limited to it 250 some businesses that includes all retail all manufacturing all growing everything so first of all they got near 2,000 applications 1,200 were rejected for whatever reason if you see that article two attorneys were grousing why they got rejected and it's not fair and whatever but there's still 800 applications out out there and they're going through the lottery to pick 250 or 42 or I've got the number here um in any event when it comes to us the market is going to dictate you don't have a grocery store you know why you don't have the mass you don't have bodies in this community you haven't got a liquor store you got places where you can buy three2 beer you got you got the hotel or the racetrack rather where you can buy real liquor they don't have any package sales at the racetrack so those temporary events would allow those Lions uh and 32 temporary permits on the weekend but the Simplicity of this when you have all your regulations in place and the applicant has a license from the state and they do want to come here and it fits our ordinance they're going to open up and be no different except you got to do the compliance checks once a year um you're going to be subject to complaints and other things and I don't know if you saw in the paper over the weekend or last week uh the office rated a place in North Minneapolis that was selling uh low potency at 20 times the legal limit yikes 20 times so I mean that's a whole another animal is that that Flora I can't remember the name it was like a a kind of like a concept like a wine bar only it was like a THC bar and they were very popular and they got lots of good press you know 20 times that's and danger she's done that's that's that's out of our that's out of our realm uh and somebody that went there probably liked to be a good customer was overwhelmed at the potency and and and blew the whistle and that's that's only going to get worse I think I think the paper said they actually had they had to call an ambulance to pick somebody up who well and first time that there were complaints uh somebody from the state would go in and all the employees in the back were hustling stuff out the back door so the next time they went in they put people in the alley first and then they caught them and they had all this product and then they were able to test it and it was Lethal but that's out of our realm too right but I think the Simplicity here is what you expect in these shops is that somebody is not able they can have a jar with flowering buds in it and take the lid off and let you smell it but the other edible products whether in a can or gummies that are full potency they're prepackaged when you walk in a store there's no touching or sampling they are packaged somebody opens a micro Brewery or micro business uh and they're going to have a a tasting room they have to buy the product in a retail environment bring the product in its original packaging and sit down at the tables and have music and whatever food and all of that and they're using it in in state approved packaging but those micro places do not allow alcohol or tobacco and I believe there's no vaping uh in there one of the things that we still haven't talked about is and and I I think a reason to license the events but also issue an inuse permit is to determine on the basis of a real application how you feel about on-site consumption CU right now that's what we say the hours and the consumption are going to be determined Case by case and whether you ever get one or not I don't know but I think then based on all of the information that you have yeah we're going to be in the hotel at Running Aces and we're going to block off the entire lower level and it's whatever whatever whatever and here's our security you make the decision when you issue the interim use permit if it's on-site consumption are they geared up for that you determine the hours of operation we know it won't exceed 4 days that's the state law so they're going to be licensed for that and it's up to us to determine if we're going going to let them have the onsite consumption in the micro business we're saying you are allowing consumption but that isn't smoking the flour that isn't vaping the heavy duty products that's getting a high dose not low potency regular potency is that what you're drinking there R oh yeah it's it's the real deal and people are going in there and sitting at tables listening to music and having food it it'll be like a Tavern wish and for some of that stuff I mean it's been a long time for me but you can get pretty goofy in there I don't know about going home so I didn't mean to get off the track what's next um Western I'm on item number 17 which was page 11 and and uh Megan raised the question that currently the setback Provisions we had for any of these businesses uh were the maximum that the state allowed and she noted that well you know we have the alcohol on sale that is 500 ft it's kind of a non-issue because we're going to take lower potency out of there uh and then you wouldn't have that you wouldn't have that conflict so the only alcohol or the only thing that um would be impacted and I don't know that you want to reduce the the city of St Paul and Minneapolis well Megan highlighted it I think I gave you some earlier articles uh when they were developing their ordinances you know how all those neighborhoods are you don't go more than five blocks and you got a little commercial area and they said if we had a th000 feet setback from every school or whatever this is how many retailers we could have and they couldn't reach the maximum number of licenses based on their population so they cut it down to 300 ft and we we left ours at the, FT we don't have any schools or any of these in our in our retail corridors anyway it's it really is a nonissue but the minute we pull out lower potency um which is the only thing that's um potentially a a setback issue with those gas stations we still don't have them we still don't have the problem we talked about ours operation we're going to parallel whatever the state has or or match that to your um liquor licensing and then uh the the last unresolved thing from our last meeting was talking about the use of conditional use permitting and interim use permitting and I know Janet felt strongly about let's do iups for everything um as I've talked in the past and and and Megan kind of highlighted some things in her Memo the only thing that I feel falls into the category of an interim use with either a date certain or an event certain is the retail Provisions the state right now is issuing a license which is annually renewed as long as they meet their requirements so the date is open it keeps going annually but an event would be if they lose their license and we're going to say anytime anybody loses their license they lose ours technically on the retail you could parallel the issuance of a retail license and say that the event certain of that if we use an interim use permit on the retail businesses is if they lose their license and that would answer the question that Janet has always brought up well you know if they lose the business the cup runs with the land I would not I would not want any of these other businesses the manufacturers the wholesalers the the the other businesses that are investing in Real Property using the interim use rather than the conditional use so my my comment and Megan and Ellen and I talked about this in our last conversation um and Janet you would appreciate that Bill said now listen there is a way and we feel if you felt strongly about limiting some of the businesses like the event to an inter amuse permit that it be those that we are licensing which is strictly the retail so then the other businesses you would leave the way they are shown in the ordinance as conditional use permits so a manufacturer we're not going to get a grower we're we're we're just not even though they're all indoor and they could I I just don't see us doing that but I could be wrong in any event we don't care if they meet the ordinance we would do that but when somebody is developing a major new facility like that it's really tough issuing interam use permits because the banks they won't get any financing they just don't and so I'm giving an out Janet I'm not convinced with blessing that we could tie the retail licensing with interim uses for retail business but neither of us are comfortable going with all of the Cannabis businesses without conditional use did I say that correctly Megan I I I think you absolutely did uh so I I think the other thing to consider here is how we uh would what what what are the physical structures and the impacts of a particular use um yes having a conditional use for let's say a uh grower um would allow another grower to come in at any point in time within that conditional use a condition of that operation on the site would be that they have an active growing license and are able to meet all the performance standards that you've outlined in your conditional use permit and then the same thing of course is true uh with the interim use permit for your retailer you can set that to the date certain um in in the event that they lose their license that that be revoked uh that the the interim use permit will immediately cease and they will no longer have the underlying zoning rights to operate at that site coupled with of course their um their local license and their state license as well um because it would be uh in terms of our process it would be unlikely that we would revoke a local license uh if there was also not a state revocation process going on at the same time so the where I was coming from was that because there's so many unknowns I mean we met with representative Nolan West who was on the committee who drafted the original ordinance he couldn't answer one of these questions he's like if I was me I'd try to like keep it as small and as like defined and as contained as possible because this law is going to change a million times it's it's just going to get Rewritten and Rewritten and Rewritten and every time it does you will have to update your ordinances so we just signed our checks last week I believe there was a $66,000 check to our Law Firm for the work that's been done so far on this ordinance so that's where I'm coming from so I'm not saying I'm not against this in principle I'm saying let's since we keep hearing from from Dean we're not going to get one anyway the only one retail establishment that I that I think will hear from that might want to do it will be Running Aces because they've already got a gambling and a liquor license and they've already got the infrastructure to support that I'd be cool with that I'd be cool to just restricting the retail to the horse racing District because then they're the only ones that can do it it doesn't matter if we get three applications they own all the land there so that gives us like ultimate control for these really uncertain times now and as Dean said we can we can expand it beyond that when things get better defined if you're talking about manufacturing or growing or any of those other kinds of things you know with a cup it will it will run with the business so what happens if you let one you know pick a pick a spot somewhere on Lake Drive or wherever and and you have this and it turns out it's kind of a disaster and they go out of business but now they're selling it to another group that is going to do the same thing in that same building where you'd rather have the opportunity because it was not so well defined we were willing to Shake the Dice and see how it went it didn't work very well we really don't want it there anymore you're stuck it's a cup well so what what I would suggest to you is that if you have an ongoing operator who is creating nuisance conditions in violation of of your cup that's exactly the type of situation where revocation of a conditional use permit is appropriate and when have we ever done that well because we have been able to manage those nuisance conditions right either through vacation you know a business is not functioning well um or uh it um is able to clean up its act and and otherwise you know move forward the the other thing that I would I would think about uh is that um you know in terms of a a grower or a manufacturer those are going to be expensive businesses and they their lenders are going to need if they're establishing and building a building to be able to accommodate this use are going to need some certainty that that use will be able to continue to operate because very much very likely the lender will be investing in the building as the collateral right uh and so then the lender knows that with the granting of a conditional use permit for a manufacturing facility within the city of Columbus there is something of value even if this particular client is unable to make it work um and so I think that that is so number one you have your your performance standards that will be tied to any of the uses uh number two you have the opportunity for revocation if it becomes a longstanding problem that cannot be remedied through your code enforcement process um and number three uh the right type of performance standards should lead to an efficient operator that's able to invest in you know an what what will essentially be an expensive building an expensive build out to be able to accommodate the youth uh and we'll assist them in sort of bringing that to fruition through traditional lending relationships uh and then lastly any future user would need to come in and comply with all of those conditions of the conditional use permit you know especially in the event that there had been longstanding issues with the city um that would be one of the first things they would look at and then lastly uh your conditional use permits if they do if they are not used and the building is vacant for a period of time and I think it's 2 years within the code one year 12 months 12 months those then do expire right so if the if the use is not marketable and it's not something that uh is is uh efficient and functioning within the site um then there's some sort of Market realities I think that can also drive and protect the city on the back end backend um and then finally you know the risk the risk is the event certain right uh the the nature of an iup requires us to have either a date certain and event certain um or uh or another known period right it has to be established it has to be able to be materially determined the time you approve the iup resolution so there is also the scenario right where somewh where a manufacturer um is violating the terms and conditions of their iup and you revoke the iup or that they um that they are able to retain their state license as a not great operator but not consistent with what you're looking for for um and and that iup continues on because we would only be able to in terms of us figuring out what a date certain would look like the only thing we have to tie it to in the iup context is that date licensure and and I get that but isn't I mean all these businesses have to go through an annual renewal of their license right so when you talk about you know lenders having some certainty they don't have any certainty if they don't get renewed the next year boom they're done right and they're at least from what I understand they're not going through a typical lending process because most of the banks can't Finance it so they're going through some other sort of you know venture capitalist sort of thing or whatever so they're not it's not like you know getting a restaurant built and you go to the bank and you take on a loan it doesn't work that way for these kinds of businesses at least the way that it is right now so the only point it's not that I'm trying to say we should not let these businesses in I'm just saying there's so many moving parts to this and you could you could approve the the use in an area today and have the state law Chang 17 different ways and now we don't really like it there because when we approved it they didn't have those rights or permissions or whatever you want to call it and now they do because the state has said that so then you're locked in with the cup so that that's why I think until things settle down a bit I'd be I'd be more comfortable with the iup isn't it's less about whether somebody goes in there and creates a nuisance problem it's more about you approve it under one set of assumptions because that's what the law says today and the law is going to get changed you know by the People by the people who are making the laws they're saying yeah it's going to change a whole bunch bunch we don't really know what we're doing and now you might end up with something that doesn't really it wasn't what you originally approved and you're locked into it because it's a cup yes that's true um to the extent that you have independent definitions within this ordinance right um and there're the definitions that exist now and the performance standards that you're adopting now um so uh IR respective of the state process certainly on the lure side right they could loosen up the lure requirements and um potentially allow people who are not as or businesses who are not as well vetted to operate a manufacturing site um but in terms of your ordinance itself the things that and and and how you would approve a conditional use permit um those standards are are going to remain no matter what happens at the state law so so there's that on the back end um and again the risk is just being able to uh have a date certain and not you know so just from a legislative history standpoint uh conditional use permits and interim use permits originated from special use permits this was the term that was used in the 1970s and in the early 80s and um those special use permits could be like a conditional use permit absolutely apply for um for time Memorial or they could be like an interim use permit with a with ending upon a date certain and so the legislature created these two sections um and the litigation over which one you have uh in the recent years does make a difference the risk with the interim use permit is just a policy risk for your consideration um is that uh by not by having uh sort of an ill defined or a not clearly defined uh date end date uh that we can control right because we control lure of retail businesses we control lure of temporary events when we when we have a a date that's controlled by the state agency um then that just means that it opens us up for an argument that a a an a property owner will say well actually this was a conditional use permit it morphed into a conditional use permit because your date certain uh wasn't legally sufficient under the law uh and uh and I'm entitled to these underlying property rights because I made these Investments and all of those types of things and so that's sort of the Nuance um between how you regulate these two things and that's not a for sure risk RK uh at all but just something for your consideration either path is going to allow you to adopt performance standards um is going to allow you uh to ensure that the businesses that you're inviting into Columbus are successful based upon the standards of the council and the Planning Commission set could I offer one comment um Janet you had mentioned it would be nice to rely on keeping the retail limited to the racetrack I I I would have and I'm not the attorney here but I would have serious concerns when you have one owner one zoning District it it really falls into the category of successful challenges under spot zoning that we've picked one district for a particular use that is not available to anyone other than that well and I think on a long-term basis you're probably right but what I'm saying is that they have a track record of complying with those licenses and we have no other business in Columbus that has that track record I I I don't I'm not disagreeing with any of that I think there're are a wonderful business it's just that if anyone wanted to challenge you that you restricted all of your retail opportunities to one zoning District that was one owner um you're going to get a challenge we did we do that for their Core Business they can that's the only place you can do race racing and gambling and that was a that was a that was a state category that also says there's only going to be two one on the North side one on the south side we got the standard bread they got the thorough bread and that's a whole different can of worms if you were simply saying we'll only allow a grocery store in the racetrack district and somebody wanted one somewhere else they're going to successfully fight the option that you haven't opened that up as an opportunity to everyone you've restricted it to one person and I I understand that argument I'm I'm just I'm looking at it from the perspective of it's the city's responsibility to license and and and ensure compliance with this uh moving Target of rules and regulations and so in order to in Jesse's words make this as simple as possible you start with the least risky scenario and then you go you know broader as things get better defined and to me that would be the least risky the least work and still have still meet the letter of the law that's that's all I'm saying I'm not saying forever I'm just saying that unlike your grocery store we aren't responsible for inspecting them and making sure that they meet all the requirements we will be for these businesses so why not start with a business that and I don't even I don't even know that they will want to do this but I mean if they did I would feel so much more comfortable because we have a track record with them and they you know they've been compliant with every everything that they need to be compliant with they've not had any violations so that that's all I'm that that's my point if they happen to be the first one in and they they would be able to do that yeah if we only have one and then if somebody else beat them to it you come back and amend your Ord and open it up for another one I'm I'm really just I'm going at it with the intent of let's keep this as simple as possible and as least expensive as possible because it's a moving Target and the state has admittedly said they don't really know what they're doing and it's going to change a lot you hardly ever hear that right I mean you might think that but they hardly ever admit that but they've admitted that we we'll see changes um so I know you were time conscious I'm I'm not as concerned as I was last July that we really needed to have something by the end of the year but we're close and that's up to you also are there other issues that we did not talk about tonight that you would like to talk about I don't have any but I was just curious if we were going to get a consensus on this PUD iup topic do you need that yes we need that I mean we've all heard the all the information so we should maybe do kind of like what we did with the vote of the one or three I I think if if I could reiterate what both Megan and I have said without stretching the limits of how the law exists now and a lot of legal challenges that have occurred over the years about permitting are Comfort level would be any of these retail we're talking the micro business we're talking the uh events and any other um retail operation which falls into our categories of Licensing Provisions we could rely on not date certain because they have an open-ended renewal or annual renewal that uh could be 3 years or could be 40 but the event certain that we can put through our licensing provision if they lose that license which automatically occurs if the state revokes it then we could do the iups for all those retail activities but I think our recommendation all the other businesses the wholesale the manufacturer the trucking or transporting uh the low hemp edible manufacturing would all fall under the conditional use permitting for the normal reasons that apply to not having a good event certain and we certainly don't have a date certain because they're not under our licensing provision so that's kind of what's on the table if you were inclined to try to vote it one way or another Dean would you repeat that the last the last section so right now under the just the cup part yeah who gets the cup well so right now under the licensing Provisions that have been amended all of the retail licenses that you could issue that includes a store a dispensary it includes the micro business it includes the temporary event would be interm use okay so somebody who's just going to slap something up it's iup if you're going to build a 10,000 ft cement building then get a c yeah if if if it requires a license through our new licensing Provisions we could issue an interim use permit if it doesn't go under our licensing provision which means again wholesalers manufacturers Growers none of those are in our licensing provision they're in the straight zoning category our comfort level is that those other businesses as likely or unlikely as they may be coming here would be the conditional use that's as simple as I can I think they would be unlikely pardon but if they had to follow performance standards and build a a big tip up building to put your grow your pot in so that eliminates a lot of Riff Raff or whatever you want to say and it would be people who are substantial business people possibly so because I understand Janet's concerns and we know this whole pot thing is questionable from the day it's started in my mind but it's the law so well it's it's just not been well defined I mean I'm not making any value judgment about whether it's questionable or not so so let me can I just ask one yep so those other businesses we do not we are not responsible for compliance with those manufact facturing we're not we're not responsible for compliance no just the retail the micro and the event that is correct okay then I feel better about what you just said okay as long as I I think again based upon the number of existing buildings and the zoning districts that you're allowing things you don't have space available so you're really talking about the majority of these businesses needing to build up from scratch and yes whether they're growing whether they're uh manufacturing other products whether they're in a transport business they have to meet all of our other design standards everything else whether it requires a tip up or it has to meet the design standards y if they were to come in and take over one of the other businesses as your um animal business took over the uh the exercise guys building you only got a couple more of those and they're not big enough and sophisticated enough for manufacturing but they could possibly hold you might get a retailer in one of those locations um but a retailer we can iup yeah I I'm not making that distinction I'm I'm just trying to say there are a lot of empty buildings in Blooming Minneapolis St Paul that are almost ready for somebody to move into we don't have those and so our biggest concern other than the retail and we're talking about retail shops that are half the size of this room it's not an enormous investment they could fit into some of your buildings the others aren't going to and that's a big concern I have distinguishing between the interim use which if it's limited to the retail business we can justify event certain if they lose their license they're done you're you're out and that site wherever they were new or used is not automatically open for the next person but somebody builds a manufacturing or a growing facility and growing is not enormous either I mean we're talking 5,000 ft for a certain category 10,000 the state can increase those we're not talking acres under roof so it isn't like virgin you know wanting to come in but again all of those that would get potentially the conditional use have to meet all your other zoning standards and if they collapsed uh whether they lost a state license or just closed the door that vacancy period I think it's 12 if it's 24 months I think you're right I think it's 12 once that time frame is done then that conditional use expires but I will tell you one lawsuit we were involved in and that was a closed gas station and it was empty for 5 years and we all had plans for what it was going to become and we said no you can't reuse that and they came in and said we've been storing oil in the ground in those containers all this time and the judge said yeah they never abandoned the property so there are ways people can sneak around you never trust the judge all right okay is there a consens then the iup the hot shops and cup the big businesses make a question just say I just say sorry or you can stay till 9 o' your choice uh what's the question here well do we agree with what rephrase I'll just rephrase quickly an iup for any retail business that is getting licensed in the first Provisions in your ordinance would be an iup all other cannabis businesses would get a cup okay so you're waiting for me I I'll go along with that I Bethy I I I sorry I I yes Rob quality right how about Rob thumbs up thumbs down thumbs up thumbs up all right thumb up okay well that takes care of that anything else that you can think about that maybe isn't covered in here I spend a lot more time person personally on trying to establish the new retail licensing Provisions then I did go back and look at this I need to do it again um Megan will go through this again but we will take out all references in here that imply any type of Regulation restriction whatever for low potency that'll be different from what you've seen and we will put all of the retail businesses uh now in these various zoning districts that allow um any of the retail will convert those from cup to iup can I ask just one quick question about low potency um this is for you this is a this is a a pop quiz because I don't remember okay if you're doing a home occupation is retail off the market they can't do retail from a home occupation could they sell low potency from their home or did we or and the reason I say that is because we've talked about none of this stuff for the high potency can be in a in the rural residential but if we're not going to regulate the the low potency stuff could that be done in the residential I'm I'm I'm just asking the question just a quick question didn't we change that to say that any retail sales associated with a legal home occupation is incidental so if your hairdresser you can sell shampoo yeah how is selling hemp I I don't know but I'm bringing it up because I that that that might be it wouldn't be a ret store did we uh qualify or any sort of like home because home delivery stuff with the low potency might become a thing sorry this is also well maybe you guys can look into it that's just a question I'm not saying yes or no to it I'm just saying I think we might have opened up a question mark if we say we don't regulate it and then I don't know how it would fit into to if somebody wanted to try to sell it as part of their home occupation and and I don't know that we you know would say not to that I just say we should figure it out yeah I I do believe that the retail would have to be incidental to their to their home occupation um however it's the same thing where if people were making homemade crocheted items if someone is making homemade low potency hemp products and storing them in there yeah they're not going to get a license to manufacture low potency so we don't worry about that and I think that's the best connection somebody can make bird houses and yes they can sell them as a true home occupation but how the sale of lower potency would be accessory to a legitimate business I I'm not getting it but we'll look into that thank you mhm all right uh so much for the Cannabis let's do the number seven planning commissioner's report nothing Bethany speaking of weed did you guys see that there was there was marijuana growing all over the ditch what yeah hilarious where um Kettle River it's just point of Interest really it was like wild marijuana just like growing in the ditch I didn't know what it was my husband pointed it out right no I really didn't he was like there's weed and I like oh weeds and he was like no like weeded weed weed growing in the ditch like so much of it just a fun fact thank you it's gone now but it was there somebody already grabbed it yeah it's in your basement dry after the county mode it there's a bunch of people out there Gathering it up I didn't know how tall they were nothing for me Scott to no nothing thank you Susan nothing and welcome and thanks for coming and we hope you come back thank you after a meeting like this and Robin and Robin anything nothing there all right that takes care of that uh City administrator and planning and zoning tech report um I would like to ask if you would like to officially call for a public hearing for this ordinance um the next available public hearing would be December 18th I believe actually let me double check that Wednesday December 18th December 18th would be the next available date for a public hearing otherwise we can keep talking about this I would say call for the hearing hearing do we do we feel ready for that Dean and Megan that's the question what is the what is the publication date the latest the latest publication date I'm going to bring up my little calendar in the [Music] corner would be December 5th would it would have to be in the newspaper is that the Monday after Thanksgiving so we have next week to get this wrapped up Monday after Thanksgiving is the second but it's that week okay it's that week it comes out on the 5th or it comes out on Monday it comes out on the fth okay so we have to have for anybody that requests when they see that notice we have to have the document so that's our deadline for changes do we feel okay with that or we should do it yeah so okay thank you for all your work on the ordinance thank you both thank you well Sue had said earlier tonight we've got to get this done before I leave there you go there you go get her done okay so you have consensus I have consensus I can post that public hearing date thank you perfect so so we did it before the first of the year that's good we yep we did Jack anything from you no and in that case I'll make the motion to adjourn is there a second I'll second uh I'll call for the vote I i i i Scott I Janet I Susan I Rob I Robin Dean you ready to go no good job all right and the mayor says I and also everyone Happy Thanksgiving by the time we get back you bringing it it'll be Thanksgiving yeah [Music]