[Music] good evening everyone tonight is Wednesday July 10th 2024 it is 6:02 p.m. and I call to order the Columbus city council meeting for tonight tonight uh our first order of business will be the Pledge of Allegiance please join us I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America to the repblic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all so our next item is the adoption of the agenda Pages 1 through two uh I move to approve the agenda for July 10th 2024 with the addition of the supplemental payment summary to the item B3 of the consent agenda is there a second this is Su all second any questions anyone all call for the vote Ron I sue I Janet I Rob Jesse I uh Item B is a consent agenda which includes the June 12th city council meeting minuts the June 26 city council minutes and the approval of the bill payments as attached in the 20110 tonight's 2024 payment summary are there any questions um this is Janet I request that we remove the um minutes of June 26 so it's item number B2 anyone else I'll call for the vote r i Sue I um do you want me to add that I recommend that we approve the other two items so I just said that okay there a second y second all right now we can do the vote we'll call for the vote Ron I sue I Janet I Rob I and Jesse I public open forum is there anyone who would like to speak please come forward pull that microphone about one inch from your mouth so we can hear it all and record it good my name is Derek Lind and I'm from Ramsey can I approach give you a hand out real quick right have a chair or hand us what you're giving and then have a chair okay thank you thank you Mr Mayor again my name is Derrick Lind and I'm from Ramsey I don't know if you guys remember seeing me I was out here in October elction integrity pull that mic closer here like I am yep so uh this is just a follow-up visit uh bring you some news of what's what's happened since the last time I've been out here uh one thing I want to mention right away before I forget the leader of our election Integrity team is actually from Columbus she can't be here tonight because she's at church Brenda Miller she started this group over two years ago and she's still one of our leaders today so a couple things that have happened um you don't have a print out of it here but we'll probably email it to you as we were interviewed by Liz Colin of alpha news and she just dropped that story this week and I think that's going to be hitting your emails I don't are you guys getting emails from asit does that ring a bell yes you are okay so there'll be a you might have to share it with the other people um but there'll be an email I don't know if you can but we try to send them to everybody but a lot of people are telling us we don't have a correct emails it depends on what you publish online but anyways she did a story on us and uh Brenda was featured in that article so there's that the other thing that happened was we've been going around giving presentations to the city showing them uh what Authority they have over their elections a lot of cities don't really understand how that works you know the Dynamics between them and the county and the state we've been to five cities um we just scheduled lywood we're going to be going there in August and so one of the reasons I'm here tonight is we're asking you if we can come back and give a a present presentation you can pick how long you want that to be you can pick the date some cities have been 20 minutes uh Lynwood's asking for an hour it's a time for you to ask questions and we'll probably bring our whole our whole team in I think when we were in East bethl we had 17 people so um if you look through this sheet here um actually we'll start on page one I I won't read through this whole thing cuz I know we got to go quickly what happened is two cities in an NOA County voted to extend the purr what that means is on Election night they're going to run the ballots through the machine they have to that's a state law and then 10 days later down at the county they're going to send a couple of Judges down there to go down there and count the votes make sure the numbers are right uh that was the city of Oak grve and the City of Ramsey okro has four precincts they're going to count all four precincts Ramsay has nine precincts they're going to do six and if you look through this here you can see the details of when they did it and what the resolutions look like so that that seems to be kind of the popular thing when we show up we're going to we're going to explain six actions that we think you can take to make your elections more secure and what happened what shook out from that is Oak grov said hey we we like the six idea but we want to start with one and the first one was hand counting their votes they just want to be sure so that's really all I wanted to say tonight I just wanted to say we've got the Liz article coming out you're going to want to take a look at that make you aware that two cities and inoka are extending the per we're in the process now process now of reaching out to all the cities I think we're hitting six cities in two weeks it's why I'm here tonight um there's that going on and then you know do you guys want to invite us back for a more formal presentation it would be a slideshow there'd be a handout and then we can we can answer questions and if you want to think about it too you can contact me later on I can leave you my phone number email or do do any of you know Brenda Miller personally so can reach out to her I I know her from campaigning and just on various other things so I have her contact information you do okay okay so do you guys have any questions for me oh one one thing I want to show you if you look at the very last page that's a picture of our team that's who we are you can see Brenda she's uh kind of standing in the middle and in the very middle is Liz Colin so that's when Liz Colin came out to interview US uh that was in April and like I said that story just dropped yesterday so we feel like this movement is picking up a little bit but it's you know we're going City by city so do you guys have any questions I know I kind of caught you off guard you weren't expecting me to come in so nobody has questions when I show up but do you have anything off the top of your head um this is Sue I just have one and so if just a question on the uh if you were going to hand count and tabulate do you guys provide the resources do do the hand count no it's an excellent question thanks for asking the cities do that so the cities that pass the resolutions they're going to pay for it themselves and they're going to send their own judges in that's the way it works right now now you could be randomly selected anyways by NOA County and then you're going to send your judges and you're going to pay for it so the way the purr is set up right now we're already doing a purr it's actually a state mandate there's 128 precincts in Anoka County they test four and of those four they do the top two races that's it that's all we're checking in the entire County and so what Oak grve and Ramsay said is we're going to go all the way down the ballot now there might be some Races they don't care about you know uncontested like a judge race or whatever but they'd go down to the city council level you know that's it's up to the city every City's a little bit different we've heard other cities say we're not going to do a school board we have a we have two other cities that are thinking about it right now they just haven't passed anything yet so excellent question though thanks thanks for asking uh you know I I checked on I I was hoping to put cost estimate in there because if we come back and do a presentation we're going to give you a cost estimate you have one Precinct I believe 2700 people sound about right you have a very large one you're probably due for a second precinct that the state says that you should probably be about 2,000 per Precinct so you've obviously had some growth out here and I know a lot of times it comes down to having a building that's a hard part you're not the only city that has that problem by the way it's very common um but the cost estimate I got from Bob and our team on yours would be anywhere from 14 to 1,400 bucks 1489 to 3144 and and we can we can get more specific on that you know again it depends on how many races you want to count that's that's up to you guys if I could just say one last thing this is very important I've been doing this for two years and as I've been doing this the state has been taking away more and more power from the local governments uh first they mandated of the machines when I first when Brenda started this you had the option to get rid of the machines last year the state passed a law and said you're using them you have to use them then they had this thing called the cast vote record which was a report that we could look at to see if the votes came in the right way if anything looked fishy we we requested that from monoka County they never fulfilled that request they said we couldn't get it didn't happen didn't exist and then the state passed a law said the public can no longer see the cast vote records when I was here in October I suggested to you guys that you run the ballots through the machine because it's a state law and then you take the ballots out and hand count them that night a parallel count state passed a law said you can't do that now when you run the ballots through the machine they seal the ballots send them to the county there was some other cities that were talking about parallel County and the state wanted to take that away if you're thinking about doing anything I wouldn't wait because the state keeps pass in law and keeps taking away Authority did you guys know about the uh you don't need an address to register now probably not going to be a problem out here in Columbus but in Downtown Minneapolis that's a very big deal so now you don't even need an address to register to vote so we've had a lot of bad laws passed of course our team thinks the solution is for the power to come back to the cities I think you guys should run your elections you know the town you know the people and that's how it should be done but I don't want to get too much into my opinion any of their questions yes sir last year and or two years ago in the election I know the do Grove was one of the cities that elected to do a hand count were you able to compare the accuracy of the hand count with the machine count it was that historical evidence great question thanks for asking I I don't know that specifically but what they tell us at the county is they've never failed so uh we did have a School Board Race I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Zach Aro Schoolboard Board Race it was settled by 13 votes so they had to do a hand count and in that hand count uh the totals moved the the machine had made a mistake so somebody had written in Zack Aro and also check the box it's called an overvote because they voted twice so so the machine rejected it didn't count it and you know in that case the machine was off by one but what the county says is that every time they do this post elction review the machines are never wrong they say every time they test the machines there's never a problem so that's that's the County's position so I would assume that's what happened in Oak grve of course our position is how do we how do we know that you know they not there's not going to be a problem next time you know the only way to know for sure is hand count once you stick that ballot in the machine you don't know what's going on it's up to you so good question thank you Janet when you when you're proposing this hand count um are they doing it twice so you make sure that the hand count is accurate or how do how are you how are you deciding what's the right number State dictates how you do that they have a piling system I'm not an expert on that but Bob is so they tell you specifically how you do it generally you have a a Democrat judge and a republican judge and they sit there and they count together I think I think the Zack Arco race is probably a good way uh to answer that question I I don't have that information here with me now but basically you had two judges and two hand counters and they didn't have to go through that many ballots I've I've done test or hand count practice sessions it's not that hard you know the the problem is you got to comply with the state laws like um I offer to be a hand counter for Ramsay where I lived but I'm not I'm not a judge you got to be certified for all that so basically you have you have a Republican and a Democrat you're both looking at the same ballot you're both counting at the same time and once you get to 25 you got to have the same score otherwise you go back can recount it again I I think it's accurate you know there's a narrative out there that it's not accurate uh if you could look at the look at the first page again uh you could see a couple of quotes there from uh Weston Rolf he said uh nobody can confirm that the voting machines counted the ballots correctly on Election Day it's important to me as your mayor that your vote counted then Deb Musgrove she's a council woman from Ramsay she was instrumental in getting this done in Ramsay she said we double check everything in our society why wouldn't we double check our votes why would we stick them in a machine and walk out the door and say there's the totals and then the third one I won't tell you who that was cuz we didn't get permission yet but he said we spent all this money we can spend another 1,500 bucks counting our votes it's not that big of a deal so any other questions should I leave contact information in case you guys want to leave it with ask me a question I'm sorry yes sir you leave that with me okay okay so so this is Rob I just have a question are you familiar with like the Brooklyn Park race with the May oral race in alasco round no I know it's just outside of NOA right but that was decided by one one vote one vote okay it was a recount but I'm curious how they would go about doing that Rec is it a hand count it's funny it's always a hand count that the hand count is the gold standard now my opinion this is just my opinion that's where we're going back to I think these machines are going to be on the way out so if you guys get out ahead of this and learn how to hand count this is what we did 20 years ago I think we're going to go back but yeah whenever it's that close or like if you're running for office and you want to pay to have your election checked it's going to be a hand count you know so I'm not familiar with that race so thank you I just was curious great how that happens sir can I just give you my phone number real quick and then I'll get out of your way is that all right yeah okay 612 475 0170 and my name is Derek Lind can you spell that last name please L yeah sure it's l i n d and and uh I think councilwoman said she knew Brenda Miller so Brenda was hoping to be here tonight but church and family you know so um and then if you guys want us to come back and do a presentation you'll you'll contact us and let us know okay any other questions thanks for your time appreciate it yep thank you uh appointment of election judges how appropriate check Pages 1 through3 thank you Mr Mayor voting for the state primary election will be held at the Columbus City Hall on August 13th 2024 pursuant to Minnesota statute section 204b 21 election judges for the precinct in the city of Columbus must be appointed by the city council for this election person selected to serve must meet all the requirements of the statute and County administrative policy and have been trained and certified pursuant to law the individuals listed in resolution 24-5 exhibit a are recommended for appointment to serve as election judges for the state primary election of August 13th 2024 in the event circumstance has require judges to be appointed in additions to the persons named in the resolution the city clerk is authorized to appoint replacement judges as necessary provided the persons appointed meet all the requirements of the state statute and administrative policy so the motion before you is our recommendation to approve resolution 24-5 appointment of election judges so I'll I will make the motion to approve resolution 24-5 appointment of election judges for the August 13 2024 State primary election is there a second janed I second and any other questions or discussions Yeah question here is winning instead is that a relation of Jim say that one more time Rob the winning stad at the bottom is that a relation of Public Works so how does that work you you don't live in Columbus but you can be an election judge is that okay you you do not have to be a resident to be an election judge gotcha okay anybody else I'll call for the vote Ron I sue I Janet I Rob I and Jesse I item number three this is back to you Jack uh the assistant City administrator Pascale page four of our packet the Personnel committee met on July 2nd 2024 and received the job scoring report for the city administrator position the scoring was done by the city administrator and finance director the Minnesota pay equity and job description report was used as the basis for assignment of points to this section this report is the basis for most pce scale in the Metro cities and is used as a consistence factor in pay for similar job descriptions comparing the job description for the city assistant City administrator position with the equivalent pay Equity category this position rate a score of 330 points on our scale this point rating on the city's pay scale and job category Matrix ranks in the salary range of $ 83,1 158 to 107,2 $23 comparison of our pay range to surrounding cities and municipalities in the 4 to 5,000 population group places Columbus approximately in the middle of a range from a low that is 58,000 a year to a high of 142,000 a year salary and benefit expenses for this job are provided in the 2024 City budget pay for this position aligns with the current salary scales of the public works and finance director and there would be no changes in existing staff positions with this hire staff is recommending approval of this pay scale determination by the Personnel committee right everybody what do we think so you're on the personnel as part of the Personnel committee um we've we did a lot of research on this uh we've been working on this position for a long time and it it's a pretty robust I guess I would say uh job description um the expectations are High um and we're looking for somebody who can I mean the assistant administrator can fill in for the city administrator when they're out so that those are high expectations and that is the reason why um it's scored high and I'm in agreement of the range the range of 6 83 to 107 yep J um I I agree with everything that Sue said I think um the other thing to mention is that although you can never predict for sure succession planning the idea is that this person is a second in command and and um depending on their skills and how long they've been in there and what happens in the future I mean we would we would be in a position for the first time in 20 some years so we don't have all of our eggs in one basket this person will basically have very similar um responsibilities to the city administrator so I think um I do think it warrants this this salary range the other thing I wanted to mention because I asked the question about how much we had in the budget um that we already had allocated towards this position um which has gone through many iterations as as Sue mentioned it's um it's been uh referred to as an administrative director an assistant to and so we spent a lot of time really trying to get this right and really trying to make sure that the way the job is defined is is what Columbus and and the personal committee would want um the combined total of what we had for this position and for the public uh information coordinator position which is now part of this person's job um was $126,000 so we have budgeted $126,000 for salary and so that more than covers this range that we came up with Rob anything yeah question on that so what were we paying Connor for his public Communications or what are we currently paying him for his current his salary was approximately $62,000 a year okay I didn't hear Jack would you repeat yourself his salary is approximately $62,000 a year currently he's working part-time for us not to exceed 10 hours a week and he's built us for 3.2 hours so far so so you've been here a little while Jack are you feeling bogged down that you need somebody to shovel some work off to is that I'm I'm not feeling bogged down but there's a lot more we can do with this position and I think what Janet brought up too about having some type of succession at least a plan B is good for any City a lot of places do this so in the event that the City ad administrator leaves retires gets run over by a bus then you have somebody that can immediately step in and fulfill that position without having to go through all the lead time and the learning curve is associated with things going on here a lot of things that are listed in that too are going to enable us to offer more and pursue more of these things that we're doing uh in terms of what the goals of the council are help out with economic development uh marketing and I think it would be a very worthwhile position to have they'll also be able to do a multitude of things too I think they'll be able to help out in the planning department so that's one thing that we're looking for a little help into in working with certain things on ordinances we'd like to redo so I think this would be a very very valuable position to have would would you feel like that like you'd mentioned the planning side of it do you think that'd be able to free up Dean from being on contract then and slide this person in to do that role I think it would help quite a bit I still I still think Dean's a very valuable resource to us in in cases uh depending on the qualifications of this person if they have a strong playing background they'll be able to do some things that Dean hasn't done so I think uh I don't person personally I've been very impressed with Dean and his value goes beyond that of a lot of people that have planning backgrounds his goes back 30 40 years and he's encountered most every situation but it would help in minimizing some of his time potentially perfect and yeah I wasn't doubting anything about Dean's experience or any of that right but just trying to find ways we can save money here we're paying Services all over the place and then we're going to bring someone else in to you know help you or whatever that may be I do know I would like to chime in on that part because it just to remind you because it's been so long this was if you remember Jessica oh yeah we never filled her position so this is uh kind of you know we changed the description and and changed the role but we've been down that resource you know for over a year yeah so it's not it's not like we're adding a position because that position was right correct and I I think and I think Sue is exactly correct it's not like you're at any position you're just feeling something that there's been vacancies on this person is going to be really a jack of all trades Jack would you pull your mic up I can't hear a word you're saying this person's going to be a jack of all trades he's going to be able to fill in in a lot of places he or she in what we're trying to get done and it's going to enable us to get it done quicker and hopefully better this is Janet I just want to chime in with one more thing too um so this person is also going to be supervising the administrative staff so that does you know lessen the load for for Jack I think it's also a really good thing for the staff and they will um really be our internal go-to person for HR matters and so that will greatly lessen our Reliance on consultants in that matter and ideally it will be somebody who can keep things up to date our policies our procedures our handbooks all of those sorts of things sure so I think again we've never had that and so it's you know we've we had we've had a lot of catching up to do and ideally this person then can take the ball and run with what what's left on the list which is partly what we have to talk about next sure are we going to talk about that before we vote on this no the she was talking about the uh um summary of findings yep yep yep um I mean no we we were going to finish this one first and then talk about that okay and if you look at it this way too if Connor were still with us we'd have that would be anywhere from 60 to 70% of the salary of this position so we're getting that work done from Conor's behalf and then what we had budgeted there'll be uh another amount to account for that difference in the balance so it's like we're filling the position and we're going to be able to attract I think some very good candidates and it's filling the position and only spending like about $30,000 if you want to figure it that way sure and this would probably be directed at the Personnel committee so essentially we're merging what Connor and Jessica we together and we're really eliminating a position right because it's a joint position it's true M okay I just yeah I just want that out there clear for the public that we're not creating a handh holder for another person you know what I mean like I'm very big on you hire someone for a job you expect them to do the job if they don't do the job let's get rid of them and get something else right not somebody to watch over him so the HR thing makes sense right and it I mean we had to bring in alen because we didn't have that internal resource and there were a lot of things that we need to do and again the thing that we're that we're going to talk about is are prioritizing those so they're not all going to get done this year they're not all going to get done necessarily by by this person but ideally um Ellen would fill more of a role where you know when you need to have special special surveys done or special guid guidance on on specific things but the daytoday um HR U matters would be handled by this person okay and and keeping everything up to date okay thank you MH thanks for your work on it too you're welcome Jack may I ask you is there enough work for this person absolutely and we see it's a com combination of things that didn't get done I could list you four people but I won't because I'm gracious but if we so it's kind of cost neutral I mean the money's in the budget the people who were here are not but if we find a person who's able to supply the city assistance for what you need and if we're able to if they're able to start and then work their way up so that in 10 years from now if you're done with Columbus you can be feel free that there's somebody who understands what's going on and knows how to implement it are these points am I reasonable or not I'm we want to do the right thing you know I'm tighter than a I'm the cheapest guy you know but the work is there to be done and it has to be done and it's going to increase so is that am I thinking in the right way no I think you're exactly on the right track with that train of thought Jesse is like you say there's a lot of things that we want to get done that we just don't have the capacity to do in a timely manner the workload is not going to decrease it's going to increase and I think this Staffing Position will satisfy our needs for the near future and it's not like we're going to be recommending hiring a new staff person every year I think this will get us through the next several years and uh we'll be better suited to address everything that comes up and like I said we can take care of more of this work that we need to be done you know we're talking about we see we need we find out we don't have policies for a lot of things we need a lot of policies done we've got all these ordinance reviews and revisions that we need to do we need people that can do a lot of this stuff on the front end so we can lessen maybe some of our cost that we do with Consultants they our Consultants are wonderful people but there's some things we can do I believe originally on the front part of it now that we're having to rely on them because we don't have the staff capacity to do it so there there's a potential another savings too so I do think this will be a wash and be a neutral budget position I will add one more thing my next question would be if we choose to do this are you willing to take time out of your pretty busy schedule to get somebody rolling and get them up to speed and get them so they in Advantage you in less than 5 years absolutely uh I think it's critical that uh we have someone like that on board and hopefully we'll find someone that's doesn't take a lot of training and is up on the learning curve significantly and we'll just take to this naturally and just have to go and learn a little bit of details and they'll be ready to go fairly quickly so and again you know when you do a search like this if you don't get a good candidate then you don't make a hire either so I think it's critical that we ascertain you know we have a good candidate it's going to fit in it's going to take minimal training they've already had the background and they're ready to go they just have to learn some of the details and processes that we use here my next question and final I think back to the Personnel committee so you interview 50 people no or no have applications from 50 people you Whittle it down to 20 Y and then you go through it all so you two are the Personnel committee with Jack and Jack and Jack Jack's on the personel Committee just like Elizabeth was so if you say this one's a snooze that one's a snooze we're not stuck with somebody who's a snooze we've been through that yes and I don't want to do that waste the time and the money to do that anymore so can you do we're not going to settle is that your question we're not going to settle huh we are not going to settle we going to try to hire the best person we can for the job if we don't feel like there is a good candidate then we start the search over and I will just add to that that we have we've done quite a few hires I guess together we well and we did just go through the hiring process for our administrator and I feel like we are we're really clear on what we're looking for do you think we got a good administrator yes well that's putting her on the spot yeah NOP that was it I I just I I'm very confident that we have the ability to find the right person and we're not afraid to say no if we are not finding what we're looking for we're we're not going to hire just somebody I will just the one thing I wanted to add is that especially in the last year there has been a tremendous amount of work that's been done by the Personnel committee at no charge to the city and but we don't we that's not what the Personnel committee was intended to do so we need to have somebody internal a staff person that can deal with the HR stuff and you know that's that's this person any other questions or discussions [Music] anyone is it possible to lower the dollar range like under 100,000 that's a pretty damn good wage well it it it is but you get what you pay for and we're pretty small town we got not many residents well and again the position it would be hired for would be depending on the qualifications of the person there's a seven step range in that pay grade but the less attractive candidates you get the more time you're going to spend training them and a lot of times you get that candidate once they're trained and they're gone somewhere else so I think this is one of those cases where in order to be competitive with the market rates for people that can perform this this is what we need to offer just to attract any type of really qualified candidates and again we looked at a number of surrounding cities uh we found a low of $58,000 with Elco New Market and I don't know what their job description was but the high was 146,000 that was for a city the same size population as Columbus but it was y so they have a broader tax base than we do but uh the city of Cambridge has uh assistant City administrator position and their salaries listed as I believe 88 to 110 so we had a few others Forest Lake Hugo and White Bear Lake have similar positions but they didn't participate in the surveys that we had access to so we have no basis for comparison to them uh North Branch doesn't have an assistant City administrator but they do have a city clerk who does similar duties but not as many as this one does and their salary range is like 88 to 98 so it's kind of the market what's out there so this there all just comment to I mean the range starts at 85 and goes up to 107 so we have always started people on the step that was commensurate with their experience so that's the first thing I wanted to say and then the second thing is that one of the things that we have to do this this person or this position will be similar in um points to the other directors so that would be Jim that would be um Cheryl and so you had to maintain Equity so if they're going to if they're going to be at that at that level of responsibility and in that in that um title then the salary has to be commensurate with that with the equity that we're that we need are actually legally required to maintain so on top of the fact that it fits in with what the other cities are doing it also fits in with our own Equity analysis thank you may I ask so I don't believe anybody anyone is worth more than 70 or 880,000 bucks a year so we're starting at 83 whatever up to 1 107 108 basically so I agree with Rob how is there anything we can do to so you show up and you're 18 years old and you get a job and as the assistant well I'll give you 75,000 a year if you prove yourself next year I'll give you 120,000 a year is there anything we can do instead of just hiring them because they showed up for the job what do we do to get our money's worth out of them the first year is basically training anyone if you hire him or you hire him or you hire him the first year is continuing education as far as I'm concerned and I may be incorrect but how do we how do we attract someone without giving them 200,000 a year and how do we train them up to what they have to do so you attract someone based on their prior experience their education how they do in the interview they have to convince us that they can meet the requirements that we have spelled out in the in the job description I think the part that you're missing because I've heard you say this a number of times when you're hiring staff um and maybe this is different if you're you know a privately held or a mom and pop shop but when you're hiring somebody there's a process that you go through you it's not like you're going down and and bartering for you know some some trinket that you might want and the person's telling you that it's worth 20 bucks and you're like nah I only want to work I mean that's not what you do with staff so we go through a very uh rigorous process to to very specifically say here's here's the responsibilities that this person's going to be handed and that they're going to carry out and then you rate that that job according to those responsibilities and there's a process of doing that and that's how you get your points the state has come up with a salary range that corresponds with those points that's what we're really that's what we're obligated to follow so it's not that you can just go you know I don't think anybody's worth $100,000 a year well that's not how it works and that's fine if that's you know you certainly can have that opinion but as a municipal employer that that's not where you start you start with saying saying what is it that you need what job isn't getting done now what kind of requirements what kind of education what kind of experience does a person have to have to be able to do that you interview and make sure that the person you hire has those things if you if you think the salary range is too high then the the way to change that is to look at the job description and say fine then we're going to lower our expectations I think that's a mistake so yes we could lower that we could lower the salary range by lowering our expectations for what this person is going to do but that's not what we what we came up with when we looked at what wasn't getting done or what needs to get done so let me let if I may so over my business career I've had 40 people a year employed some were snoozers some were aaa's but they had to prove themselves I'm not saying give them 200,000 bucks a year if they're super duper and whatever but how do you start at a reasonable thing and if they do what they are required to do and Excel then the city can reward them financially well we actually that is part of our process so after the six-month review if their meeting expectations are eligible for the next step increase so you start them with that in mind but $17,000 a year is 2,000 bucks a week that's the top that's the top end so somebody would have to be somebody would have to be very experienced I mean it's it's kind of like with our city administrator you end up having somebody with 20 some years of experience you're not going to pay them the same as someone who's got five however anyone who has been in the city business knows how to take their coffee breaks and knows how to spread the workout longly how do we get to a point where we are rewarding people on what they accomplish and I think you can you can have that sort of compensation system if you want to it's called merit-based and that's one of the things that we've put on our list to talk about the thing that's hard about merit-based compensation is that you have to you better budget for it because it's not much of an incentive to do an incredible job if their raises you know half a percent or 1% over the year and you have to be very clear about what the what bar they have to reach to get whatever the Merit increases are so but in my opinion anyone you hire anywhere from a coffee shop to the White White House the first year is is learning it's continuing education which is why so I don't want to pay 107,000 203 to educate somebody who is supposed to step in here on the first day and become Superman so how do we accomplish that Jesse my expectations are that this person would come in here the first day and be ready to do most everything that's on that job description what they're going to have to catch up on the learning curve is you know where to find stuff here how to negotiate what we have set up for accesses to resources and information start to know the people but this position is going to require a special type person that has a lot of abilities a lot of people skills in addition to their technical skills and competencies and experiences if they can't come in here the first day and start doing 80 to 90% of the job expect ations they're not somebody that I would recommend hiring and then our other Safeguard too is that six-month period if they don't meet the evaluation the city can say okay look it's not working out we're going to go in a different direction thank you and we'll start the process all over so we do have some safeguards but I fully expect this person to come in and be able to do the job from the get-go on day one and we also have had experience where if somebody wasn't really me meeting expectations at 6 months they don't get that next step increase well I don't know about the next step increase I want to deep six them I mean we got Public Works that runs flawlessly we've got an administrator that we all think is doing really well we've got a top- notch attorney in the whole metro area we've got a councel who's agreeable and fairly intelligent most of us so stepping into this position or any other position is is a dream job and how do we Mr Mayor I I I think you're thinking on a negative part that not me well I think most people want to do their job and want to do it right and we're going to hire somebody and we're not going to hire somebody I think to come in here if they don't think they can do the job we're going to find out right off the bat and how they got there I don't know but most people are good honest workers and I think you throw a lot of negativity in about public employees I think they're good employees I mean not all of them there's there's definitely but I think the whole start of it is you got to think positive that we're going to hire the right person that it's going to make the city run better more efficient and like Janet and Sue said we don't have anybody in HR and now we if I'm right I I don't think we've add added numbers have we over the years I mean we come most of uh everybody here has been here six years right I mean how many employees did we have then for the City compared to what we have now it hasn't gone up it St bu was about the same yep so we do have good employees so I I think we got to just step out there and whether he's making 107 or he's making 88 that's the going price you got to hey yep and we have a good process in place like Janet said I I think you can feel confident we have the best decision makers to pick the right person one one one other thing we have to keep in mind too is that when we're competing for staff positions we're not just looking at this area in the city of Columbus or Forest Lake we're looking at the whole North Metro area and even further you know we're we're competing against Blaine and Rapids and Andover and Ramsey and Lio and Fridley and Columbia Heights those are places that we have to come up and match salary to or fairly close we don't have to be at the top of the scale but we're not going to be able to attract the kind of people we want if we're at the bottom of the scale and if this position were to be say we wanted to advertise it say 60 to 80 I'd say let's not not do it because we're not going to attract the kind of person that we need and we'll get more value out of the person that we're going to attract from this scale that we're offering rather than the lower scale in my opinion or you start chopping things off of their responsibilities well I don't agree with that they're supposed to if they want the job and if they want to progress they should accept every responsibility including empty and the trash can because they want to move up the ladder and it only takes 5 minutes a day to empty the trash cans so and also I just heard just today through gossip that Lio put a moratorium on all building because of the MOs steel so here's a half a dozen other projects that are exnay because they're on hold for a year so that stops all of their development and all of their progress and we don't want to be that we want to encourage business encourage progress encourage whatever but but how do you get everybody can apply I can apply for this and I can ask for1 we would we we wouldn't hire you sorry we do have requirements and we have a it's pretty the list of requirements so I mean anybody can apply but we're going to look at their resume and if they don't qualify then they don't get interviewed well that's a big job for you guys yep but we're up for the task we've had plenty of practice so anyway taking your advice and or consideration and and the committee are we ready for a vote I am just one more quick question so Jack you mentioned with those two two jobs combined between Connor and then what was Jessica's position it is a $330,000 ad no it's a $30,000 decrease in two together thank you so I can make the motion I move move to approve a salary range for the assistant City administrator position of $ 83,1 158 to $17,250 as presented in item C do3 of the July 10th 2024 city council packet with the hiring step scale depending on qualifications of the offered applicant so this is janed second so we have a motion and a second are there any any other questions or discussions so I have I've got another one sorry but it's only 7 o' so how do we get from 83,000 you walk in you're 19 years old you got a degree you got everything and and whatever well they won't have a degree at 19 unless there're some sort of Genius years of experience unless they started at 12 how do we start at 83 and end up at 107 if they turn out to be super vanan in one year or two that's what I'm saying you look at you look at what the requirements are you look at what their experience is and you and you choose the salary that's appropriate to the experience okay I can't I can't give you any better answer than that because there's a million different permutations of how that could play out right and then they can every time they have a a performance evaluation they can go up a step and get get to that top of the scale or go down a step so my point is can we interview Jack the boss and them once a month to see I mean we've been through six people and I can name them who didn't deserve their job and then we all paid them and they they were snoozers and eventually they left so how do we get away from that in the bus in the business world if they're not doing their job out the door so I'll tell you how you get away from that the reason that and there wasn't six because I know who they are too the the reason that that happens is because you didn't have a person in in on staff that had HR policies to let them move forward with disciplinary action we had no policy that described that so and we had nobody who was willing to do that so that is not the case anymore and that is what we're moving forward with in updating our manual and that's what that's how that's how things like what you're describing get handled there's a there's a a stepwise process that escalates and you know after a month if you say I don't think you're I don't think you're up to Snuff you don't cut them loose after a month you figure out why that is and you try to get them up to snuff but after the escalating steps if they're not meeting expectations then you can move to that termination step but it's all defined by it's all defined by policy and in the past we haven't had that I agree so back to Jack are you able and willing and capable of doing that I certainly don't want anybody here that's not going to contribute to the value and make it harder on the rest of the staff and is not pulling their own weight or is not a good representative of the city of Columbus and those are people that after their six Monon probationary period is up if they don't pass then they wouldn't be recommended for a permanent hire can we back that down to three months or one month or every two weeks no I think the six month is good because if you have an employee too I think you got to give the employee a chance the number one want if there's something that they're underperforming you need to inform them what it is work out a way to correct it and make sure you follow all the steps in the process and sometimes some people are going to take six months to do it sometimes it may take a year but you're going to know when you're going to have a gauge where they're going to be able to do the job within that period And I think that's our Safeguard and I like I said before I will not recommend anybody that's not going to be able to do this job and I think I'll be able to make that determination on when we look at the applicants check their backgrounds and interview them uh check their references I think we'll be very in good hands we have two people who have done uh an excellent job in going through this before so I think we got good quality in evaluating this and making a recommendation on this person has anyone else anything to offer so we have a motion on the floor and it's been seconded I'll call for the vote Ron I sue I Janet I Rob I and Jesse I so get ready we expect miracles cheer no problem on to item number four work shop meeting date change page five jack would you like to talk to us please the regular city council Workshop meeting is scheduled for Tuesday August 6 2024 at 5:30 p.m. at the Columbus City Hall this date conflicts with the night to night program which is annually scheduled for the first Tuesday of August city council may want to reschedule the workshop meeting having both of these events on the same date staff is requesting that Council consider setting the alternate date Monday August the 5th 2024 for the regular city council Workshop meeting did you sorry did you make the motion or do you want us to make the motion no we're recommending we reschedule it so I think there's a motion that uh yep I can make a motion I move to approve rescheduling the regular city council Workshop meeting from Tuesday August 6 2024 to Monday August 5th 2024 Rob second so this is Janet I would just request that we can we start a little later um than 5:30 because I have a conflict that goes from 4:30 to 5:30 so if we could start 5:45 or 6:00 that would work better for me that's why I left a time out in there I thought that you may have a conflict on Monday yeah if that works for everybody else so do we need to redo the motion or can just um well there's not a Time on here so we I don't think we have to you can you can just add the time to your motion to okay so I will add the time the start time of six o'clock and then Rob all second so we have a motion and a second anyone we'll call for for the vote Ron I sue I Janet I Rob I Jesse I city engineer Kevin any good news I have no report Mr Mayor City attorney City attorney councel no report what mayor and city council Ron what's new what's new yeah I have nothing to report I don't think I have anything to report nope yeah I just talked about everything I would have had so nope uh I would just wanted to let you all know I drove by this morning maybe you noticed it but I saw the high ve site is for sale and they they fired a broker still there yeah so just wanted the rest to everyone it was there before and I just noticed it I thought a week or two okay it's been that long I drive by it every morning and I just noticed it this morning so that's good you're keeping your eyes on the road yeah yeah there's a set of geese right on that corner I usually look at with babies that's all I have I have nothing except that next week Senator kruin is having a meet and greet we talked about it once before and that's the one at Ronnie n it's the 18th Thursday is sorry Thursday the 18th at 5:30 to 9 Senator KW has invited everyone of course to meet and greet and discuss issues of the day at Running Aces from 5:30 to 99 anyone who's able to be there to ch support for all the stuff he's done all the stuff he's done for us feel free to come what time did you say 5 to 9 5:30 to 9 okay and he's not running for elections so you don't have to bring your checkbook just we want to Sure us you know he took us through a lot of stuff at the capital and and did a lot of stuff for us so and there's plenty of good food so anyway that's it Jim no report Mr Mayor what Eda I have no report we did meet last week June 24th and and went through the list of questions and answer or questions that we would like to go out to the businesses with and they were being coated and Rewritten or Rewritten and cated so that coming up soon we'll start going door to door and talking to everyone so who you and who met uh what's her name was G to Montana yeah Judy hos and Karen Fleming okay Karen yeah Karen was there Judy was gone to Montana and they were going to work together to put it all together and get it back to us okay thank you so mayor question on uh on that will we be passing those out as like a group again going businesses to business just kind of divvy out who's going to hand deliver them or no I think they were going to do that those two those two who were both on the Eda okay and I was I got roped into it too so anyway we'll make appointments go talk to everybody and and see what they feelings about if you need ex assistance I'd be willing to do it too and I'm sure anybody else can you want to take a a packet with you meet your friends and neighbors City administrator Jack the only thing I have is that when Jessica Slavic was here last meeting she mentioned that if Council had any interest in participating in the Alice training to let her know and I think there was some interest that was indicated so if we can kind of think about some times we might do that I would say it would probably be done they would probably prefer it to do during the day uh but if you've got if you can all give me some time say toward the end of August 1 of September that'll give them time to coordinate it we can see what they can come up with and if anybody doesn't know I was curious what does the acronym Alice stand for and I've lost my definition of what it was but I believe it stands for Al alert lock down inform counter and evacuate and it's more like a active shooter hostage situation I've been through one before and it was very very informative it was very good so if we can schedule that I think it'd be highly beneficial to all of us so AG or I I can reach out to I think it's Deputy Madson that would be doing the training reach out to him first let me let me do that let's do it that way see what he has available for schedules and then I can send it out to everybody and we can go from there sounds good sounds good Ron going to be involved in the [Music] training nobody got a vest yeah if you would wear it personal committee it would Z wman motion to be determined um so we what we're going to do is we're picking up where we left off on our Workshop from a couple weeks ago and it is the summary of findings uh on the report that Ellen did uh Where She interviewed staff and council members and board members um we had a list of we went through the first section of the list and I'm just going to get my does anybody want me to repeat the purpose of of this or do you remember what we were talking about a couple weeks ago oh I'm good you're good okay anyone else um so what you have in front of you I had Jack make copies so I had mentioned at our last meeting that you didn't have to give me what what you had scored but if you had I did receive some so I received Janet sent me hers Ron sent me his um Ellen gave me what the staff rated all of them so what I did is I just compiled those and I put them in here uh what the majority of each of them was and then I put um so we would start with number 18 um under the section of council so for example the first one um number 18 is have new council members receive training through League of Minnesota cities so I put an X in the high because three of those four people rated it high and one rated it low so if but I didn't have Rob or Jesse so if you have a different opinion than that um of high then we can talk about it I filled it out I just didn't send it to did you bring it no but yeah and similar as we were going through it so now we're at that point but I don't have my other one but that would be a low to high or a low to medium for me as far as I'll go for medium on that so we had three highs and one low I mean we could make it a medium or leave it as a high I guess I would say I would tend to want to leave it as a high only that was my opinion because I rated it a high but there is very little cost and I think it's really critical for um new council members to have that training to have a good understanding of what their role is how it really goes yes and can you do that online now or do you still have to go to the meetings you can do it online there's yeah there's both I think I think what they did on on line Sue during the pandemic is now in person again at the weekend deal but then there's multiple other webinars I'll do on yeah I think they just had theirs recently a couple weeks ago right it was down in Rochester well they have they have one in the summertime but I think the one for the new council members I think is in February okay yeah I think that the one I'm thinking it was like a continuing education type deal yep I have I have a question about the question you way you say it here here is have new council members do they are they required to do us or is that what we're saying are they are we going to how do you make them required to do it I don't know I don't know that you can that's a good question yeah well is that what we maybe we should change it to encourage them strongly encourage very good point well I just I looked at it and I thought well how are you going to they were elected by the public they can do it if they want I mean that's the way I looked at it but I mean I I would I wish they had had it can I just weigh in on this because ibly won't weigh in on any others the uh this is really good for limiting the city's liability for in particular land use decisions but but all decision making we used to do something as the City attorney similar uh but once once the league started providing this it wasn't necessary for us to duplicate that but it's a really it's a good program it's intended to reduce your exposure to liability and I think it's something that that's you can't make anybody do anything other than show up here on a council night but I think it's really a good idea okay thank you and and the one other thing it really does too especially for newly elected council members it really goes over all the open meeting law requirements and explains that very thoroughly and I haven't had anybody seen anybody that's come out of that that didn't have a good understanding of the open meeting law and I think that's one of the critical components of this position when you're new and even though it is online I think most people get more out of it when they attend it in person I understand generally the sessions are set up for Friday afternoons and Saturdays so it may be hard for people to do that but at least it is online now and I think it's very beneficial for newly elected officials to attend this I I I'd like to throw something in we do we do this to the Planning Commission cuz I know in the beginning when I started the Planning Commission about 6 years ago we went to a league of cities training on land use and and all that I mean are we looking at them too I think that there's um the thing that the league offers is now online and that is what we had Scott do and what we offer them I think the thing that you and Barb and maybe Chris went to wasn't through the league it was through another organization and they were I know they they quit um offering it for a few years as they kind of revamped it and [Music] um I don't know that they I I don't know where we're where they're at at bringing it back I think maybe Jack can check into that because I know the I know that during the pandemic they weren't having it and for probably a year after the pandemic they were still kind of rewriting it um so I don't know if it's I don't know if it's available yet as an as an inperson I've never been that was the government training service I yeah Who provided it government training service they have U seminars all over the state on various topics including your legal responsibility as a planning commissioner so if they if they if they have that in person you know maybe Jack can look into it but but the one that the league does you know I think you've seen that because we've done we've gone over those slides and stuff during our orientation with new um planning Commissioners I mean that's pretty good too doesn't hurt to hear it twice so Janet you you mentioned that they did so when you met with our latest um new member m you gave them information on a class at the league yep so what we did what we do is when they um we set up an orientation for them prior to the orientation we give them a link to the league of Minnesota City's online training it now costs $15 it used to be free and so they get that and then we also give them a recording of the um of the training that Megan did for us so so um it was that joint Planning Commission and uh and um Council Workshop that she did and then I give them a number number of the of the memos that the league has done and then we meet with them in person and so elanar goes over sort of the nuts and bolts and and goes over what's in their handbook and then uh Ron and I have been sort of going through and basically taking the information that has been provided to them and kind of saying well here's how it really plays out in Columbus okay well I think um it makes sense to add them so council members and plan commission members strongly encourage so you can move me to a high on that so okay then it's then it's going to stay a high Planning Commission all right thank you on number 19 have staff participate more at Council meetings so we had out of the four of us there was three mediums and one high so I marked it a medium anybody have a different opinion to move it towards a high that's fine with me you say you say you have it at a medium I have it at a medium yeah I added a low so I can I can move to medium okay but you know the meetings are free anybody can come any night yeah already this is nothing new but doesn't the staff does the staff adjust their hour generally yes so they want but are we requesting them to come or the the the normal policy has been if they have a presentation to make we have them come and do it as a staff person if it's something that's rather simple I'll do it so we don't have to adjust their hours and they're here at normal hours during the day but you know you you've seen more of Cheryl lately and you'll continue to see her more as we go through this budgeting process so she'll be one that comes here elor comes occasionally if it's a more complicated planning process that she's more familiar with than I am uh and other than that the potential new city assistant City administrator will be here quite frequently well and I also think um you know kind of depends like chis was really involved in looking at the ordinance on the septics so I imagine when we look that she might be she might be in you know commenting on it or or um inputting so and that that will be one of the items we will probably have on our August work meeting so she will definitely be here since she's the staff person that was most involved with that y yep so since we're on that subject is there possibly the availability to cut down like maybe the amount of meanss Public Works has to come to you know cuz they're going to the the park board they're going to public works and then having to be at at all these Council meetings is it possible to have and and tell me if I'm off track here maybe we could free some of your nights up through the month I could think of a thousand other things to do no offense and do like one Public Works report per month instead of two you know but does that play into engineer I'm just throwing it out there for conversation sake well I defin itely feel like we should not encourage them to come more than they have to okay because I mean in my opinion because it doesn't make sense to have them come if they have to adjust their schedule if they don't have if it's not a benefit to them or us okay I think the I think the intent behind this was that it's it's good for the staff to be able to speak on stuff that they're working on rather than having that be something that they write up and we've seen that you know Sean has done something it get it went to Elizabeth Elizabeth presented we had questions she didn't know so I think it was it it's more about if they have a project that they've been involved in let them do the presentation so that they get yeah so maybe we could even uh modify this one a little bit to say allow staff to participate more at Council meetings when applicable yeah sure well that's goes back to our water program you and Kevin worked up it wouldn't do any good to have the new guy come and report on that you two are the experts you're the ones that should be here you the other ones don't know what they're talking about so that made sense and that's what we did and and if there's something about I don't know what lawn moing or Tractor Repair somebody else could come and talk but you're the experts on this topic you were here you made the report and kind of started out for me um I would come and do those presentations right so you know we'd talk about you know road projects or or whatever whatever may be right um then it got to the point where previous councils potentially said God I wish you were there because we had questions so then I just started coming to more and you know now I'm just here at everyone for the most part so I mean for me on a night that I don't have anything and Kevin doesn't have anything I probably really don't need to be here but you know by that slim chance that somebody has a question I am here so it's kind of up to you guys for me so I I don't care you know I think about the way that um the meetings are like for race Creek that we've we've all had the opportunity to sit through a number of those they all have their directors at their board meetings doing their reports and updates during the day too though during work time yep that's right all right number 20 um and number 20 is similar uh create opportunities for staff to share and I would say that that one oh and that one was also a medium um and I'm not sure where that came from and it doesn't sound to me like it's encouraging them to come like what we just said above like they should really only come when they have to um but do we want I mean we want to give them the opportunity to share what they are working on if they want to or if it is pertaining to a subject that we're talking about at the meeting yeah I Rob I'd agree with that uh I I put it at a high um based off after we had hired Jack and coming through and talking to a lot of Staff they had really appreciated that they got to have input on that decision so okay the meetings are free anybody can come we've got good coffee and if they have something to say come and say it or or stay home well I think I think part of this also was I mean I've heard I've heard a number of council members over the years go I have no idea what that person does and I think it's more addressing that that Gap in knowledge I mean I think we should all have some pretty good idea of what each of the staff does um and if you don't that would be that that would be how you'd get educated on it so I I mean I don't think maybe maybe it's at a a lunch or something or maybe it's at something a little less um formal than a council meeting and it would be during the day um because I just think that you know you've got people that are working hard here and if you you you know if you're not up here a lot at that time or you don't have a reason to interface with them then you know that it would be nice to have an opportunity so that we're all conversent in what the rules are and we would also encourage each of you to come by and spend some time with them I know you have busy schedules uh Rob had the opportunity to come by the other day and spend an hour or two here which I thought was real beneficial and talk to everybody uh Janet has opportunity to come by Jesse's here Ron's here Sue's here when she can be I will say this Council interacts with City staff more than anyone I've ever been around and I think that's a very good way to learn their roles and get familiar with them I think everybody gains a little bit of knowledge and more appreciation of each other when that happened so okay do you want me to change it to a high no I think it's fine as a medium but I think it I think what Jack said makes a lot of sense I mean this doesn't have to be we're all there at the same time and they're there I mean it can be a one-on-one thing that fits into your schedule and their schedule and when it makes sense so okay you guys are all welcome to come hang out with public works for you keep saying that I get to ride in snow PL with you but I never have got I never get to do that yet after six years I haven't been in that snowplow once I'll call you at four that's the thing it's the odest hours Bill both Bill and Tim and Jim have stopped at the end of my driveway you want to go well that's one you know it's late I'm dragging my garbage out before I go to bed I'd be more likely thank you for being out there yeah I'd be more likely to do it if you stop by at midnight well you'd be lucky if you get to ride the cab and not the box number 2 we're cutting trees too it just doesn't have to be snow plowing there you go okay sounds good number 21 provide customer service training for staff I had a question about this is this an issue well I don't know I I didn't put an X in here because so far I have two mediums two highs so it's a tie but ROM me in as a medium okay broke the ti well we got Rob yet I was between medium and high on that one okay I mean I don't know that it's an issue well I don't think it ever hurts to train for customer service I think that this I don't remember if this came from me or not but I think what I was trying if it did come from me what I was trying to get at was that you have public come in in here for permits or whatever and they have no idea what any of this stuff and so really this was more about how do how do you help staff understand um sort of have some empathy for where where they're coming from and help them through the process not that they're not trying to do that but I think I think there's a lot of jargon and there's a lot of you know like well I thought that they would know that and so we have heard that many many many times from the public like well why didn't they tell me that well why didn't they you know and so I think it was just trying to address that not not that there's a real problem with it but I think that whenever you're working in a field where there's a lot of jargon and it's and there's processes that are like not known to anybody other than those of the people that work in it it it it really helps to kind of get some training on how to how to be in the shoes of your customer okay so I I guess a medium is probably a good no I'll change mine to a high okay in this and Rob said medium to high so we could go high I'll go high my thought is you're right Janet your toilet's blown out of the kitchen sink and they have to buy a $440,000 new septic tank it's nice to have a little bit of sympathy and and Direction and how to what's next yes right I agree and and it doesn't have to be a big thing Jack it's just customer service if you're selling ice cream cones or you're putting in $4,000 septic tanks you treat the people a certain way well and I I think our staff treats people very fairly and and I do agree with the assessment here that there's some things maybe we need to go into a little bit better explanation and make sure that the people understand what it is that is involved and getting a permit what all is involved and make sure they understand that when they leave because some of these permits uh with the processes we have with the requirements of our contract Service and with the state code can be a little Dawning to some people so I have no problem with that and I think that's something that we can probably look at at least initiating that internally and setting up okay here's how we're going to explain things and here's the process we're going to use to make that explanation and uh I don't have any real I don't have any issues or I haven't encountered any problems with staff being discourteous or disrespectful or short with people that come to the counter uh again maybe we can explain some things better but I think we can initiate that internally and see what happens and if we need to take it a step further we can go in in the next Direction up sounds good thank you I agree with that I've never heard anything negative or very little negative about how people are treated here but go to Minneapolis and try to get something done and you'll blow your brains out and it's just not necessary a little compassion goes long way yes it does okay 22 establish a form review process for the city administrator including the setting of goals which and most people rated this High I'm sure I rated it high this was something we didn't really have before but we had but we have it now so I don't I'm well I mean it's not formalized but we have a process for staff but the former city administrator refused to participate in a performance review so that isn't going to happen going forward so it's high but it's kind of done in a way I mean in process it's in the contract y it's in the contract that's right add another high to me okay all right 23 create a process for staff to follow when issues need to be escalated or are a highly personal nature we put that as a high what does that mean everybody everybody write it at high what it means is that if there's a if there's a problem in the workplace and normally the the process would be You' go to your boss but if your boss is the problem there needs to be there needs to be another person they can go to and again in the past we haven't had that so we need to Define that pathway for staff okay everybody agrees hi 24 improve process documentation three mediums and one high this it's kind of vague but and what does or general what does that mean is that in relation to like scanning documents in like we had been doing or or that that we're going to be starting doing with that system I wonder if it's process in general process documentation improve like the process for getting a permit the process proc for anything you need to do at the city improve the documentation of those processes okay and I think some of some of the um thought process behind that recommendation is also cross training so if something's written down it's a lot easier to have people sort of cover for one another but mostly we have an oral tradition around here and I think that's what we need to try to um do better get things written down yep yeah like a standard operating procedure um three mediums and one high I'll go medium medium okay then we'll leave it at medium uh 25 update the employee handbook four highs add another one okay yep hi I really did do this it's just yeah I know I know I saw it yeah I ran through it while we were in that meeting last I just all right track staff turnover rate three mediums one low I'll say high hi I'll throw a medium I can list them right off the top of my head okay let's oh so Jess's the tracker huh you can be the tracker somebody could yeah okay so most are medium so we'll leave it medium but Rob is a high yeah no go medium for me I I don't foresee the turnover with Jack before there was high turnover for a reason but and again we have a very small staff so turnover is remember a long time yeah if there's a staff turnover we have to have a party we have to have flowers we have to have a buffet we'll all know who it is that's that's not a big deal all right 27 review the criteria for some staff promotions not all of them just some of them that's a goofy one I I think what this is meant to say is that there's a promotional pathway for some positions and for others there isn't so we create a promotional pathway when it's appropriate okay I'll say when appropriate I I think it would be appropriate to strike the word some I you could just say staff positions and those that are done are done it it it looks like it's uneven yeah just in the statement okay and there was three highs one medium medium for me medium here well then we got three and three highs we can make it a medium I mean I think it's it it probably will get added to when we're redoing the like the handook all right and probably same with number 28 review salary Administration process no I think I think what that might have been for me too and and I think it what I was getting at is do we want to continue with step increases I mean we have step increases we have cost living increases we've heard some recommendation about Merit increases so I think it's worth looking at just sort of compensation in general and deci deciding what best fits the city and it may be what we already have but I think you know we we haven't actually talked or looked at that so I'll throw a high in there okay so it was already three highs and one medium so we we'll leave it as a high all right now we're getting into the board members Commissioners consultants and business professional their suggestions number 29 establish a documented onboarding process for various committees including training expectations calendaring and timelines uh there was three mediums and one high we give it a high you give it a high a medium well you're just documenting if you're going to join the park board there's a meeting once a month you got to be there from 5: to 9: you got to blah blah blah Planning Commission every wed other Wednesday yeah and I think we have a we have a process it's just not documented so like we have a process for the Planning Commission I don't think there is a process for parkboard okay I don't remember other anything just because you're all both are about documenting everything putting it in cement and having it the next 50 years so okay all right we'll leave that a medium go for it 30 tighten timelines for reviews and Reporting out to relevant committees what does that mean tighten timelines for reviews and Reporting out to relevant committees I wonder if this one came from when the before we had a liaison to the Planning Commission from the city council we had um the Planning Commission had to come to the city council meeting to do their reporting um I don't know if that was it or if it had to do with like parkboard or one of those I don't I'm not sure we might need clarification on that one we can ask Ellen but I would say I mean there was three mediums and one low go medium medium okay we'll leave it a medium then but need clarification because this is going to turn into a list of action items for somebody and we're going to be assigning responsibilities so we'll need clarification on that all right number 31 go paperless as much as possible three mediums one low I think we've already done that haven't we I think we've I don't know if we've done it as much as we possibly can we're we're starting on the process of it uh it's it's a slow deal unless we hire and contract some of it out and uh I don't I I agree with the process or the concept of going paperless as much as possible I think we all know too that and I've said this before when computers first came out the thought was we'd never need paper anymore or very few of it and now it seems like we have more of it than we've ever had but uh one of the things that we want to do is make sure that we continue on the process of going electronic as far as data storage goes as much and as quickly as possible this may be a budget item we want to talk about about hiring some stuff out to help us with that that's why we had the people with Fishbowl and Oracle in here and they gave us a kind of an overview of what their services were and we found out that maybe that wasn't uh exactly what we were looking for but uh those are things we need to continue to explore okay so we had uh three mediums and one low did you say medium medium medium okay we'll leave a medium 32 streamline the permit application process this one was a tie two highs two mediums throw me tie breaker go medium oh so we're still at a tie um is is that in our hands though being that's a men specs deal or is it up to us to tell inspect he we want this more streamlined well the I just because I was involved in somebody who was going through the permitting process I've never done it and I went online to look at what it was because I'm like well this person was having a problem and I was very confused okay that's not a shock because I've never done one before but I I think it could be maybe not even just streamlining but clarified um better and it doesn't need to be a high because obviously people are getting it done but and and I think that goes back to our previous discussion about maybe better explanation in the initial process of this and uh that's going to help streamline a lot of things if people have an understanding of it a lot of times people come in and they leave and they think they understand or maybe we didn't explain it enough they come back and submit their application and we have to say you got to go back and resubmit it because the application's not complete I think what our goal should be is to eliminate once we talk to them when they bring their application back it's ready to go yep yep so is that is that via like a checklist hey you have this you have that you have your plans something of that that that would be a very big part of it and and and again making sure that they understand the process and what they have to do and also to let them know if they have any questions you know let's go over them right here on the spot or you can call us later before you submit it that we're open and if you got anything you need we'll be there to help you yeah okay but I also think that um having gone through permitting on a number of things sometimes it's just like I didn't know whose job it was to pull the permit is it the contractor's job or is it my job I mean it could be either one either I know but when you're when you you get one of those kinds of things and then it doesn't get done so I think you know even clarifying that it's the it's the homeowner or the landowner's ultimate job to make sure permitting gets done whether it's by them or the contractor I didn't know that I just assume the contractor always did it because that's kind of how it had happened in the past until I put in a furnace and it was like I'm not doing that yeah and and generally it is the contractor for bigger things or things if you're going to contract something out but the DYI stuff is usually is always done by the individual but there's some people you know probably it's maybe a little confusing but generally on the bigger projects it's normally that the contractor pulls the permit so I wanted to share something on this topic too does the homeowner should we possibly Implement something where the Homer homeowner signs off on the valuation of what their permit is because uh Rochelle's went to work for another city now and they just ran into an issue where they undervalued as much as they could and it was very obvious that the project cost way more than what they said well the the contractor was just trying to pocket pocket that extra valuation money right so is there so they could pay less like yeah so they could pay less for the permit but pocket that permitting fee that they told the client that they would have to pay yeah and that's a thing out there right now and maybe that's something that you know of course if if they come to pull to permit and the contractor is going to do it but uh let them know up front that they need to make sure that the valuation is correct and sign off on it if the contractor pulls it only then maybe he has to have the the owner sign off that's what that's exactly what I was thinking maybe hey this is our agreed upon price for the project yeah uh homeowner signs off on it too that's a good idea mhm may I interject y yes you may so at a previous project nothing to do with Columbus so the Wetland engineer who should be retired every time he did something it was wrong and then you pay him another 20,000 bucks and he rewrites it and then he rewrites it again like four times and if if there's someone staff for here's what you got to do you have to do this it has to do that and this is race Greek not Columbus so you know the first time I mean he's an engineer and he was wrong three times and of course they don't forgive their stupidness you pay it and if if we can El eliminate that as much as possible in the city that's good for us we look better it's smarter it's good for the people dumped in all the dough to do a house or a project or whatever it is so I agree that's important whatever whatever it turns out to be okay if you give them a sheet of paper and it says do this do this do this do this do this and we're done and not come back and say oh yeah 10,000 more cuz you got to call some other inspector or something yeah just tell them the truth up front if you decide not to do it if you see it's going to cost you 100,000 bucks and you don't do it then at least you're done but if it keeps going on one more thing and one more thing and one more thing so I agree with that okay thank you uh number 33 I'm not sure if this one is necessary anymore um because we're going through the hiring process it's hire an assistant who knows zoning so I mean we have our job description and and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't part of the job description for the assistant City administrator one of the preferences was that they have a background in Planning and Zoning so there would be a redundancy there too I think that was a they could have a background I think this came from when we didn't know who the city administrator was and whether or not that City administrator would have a background in zoning and I think at the time also Elizabeth was um kind of advocating for peeling that part off of the city administrator's role and putting that somewhere else so I think the fact that you have the planning background and you aren't advocating for pushing it off I I agree with you I don't know that we need to I I think that was where this came from yep okay all right 34 consider Consultants to do the bonding process and writing grants but staff and Janet believe this is done I think they do that I mean yeah I thought so I mean you know if if there's a grant you know that that has to do with roads or whatever I me B to make rights it and I think when we've done the bonding we've worked with if it's a Tammy or I mean I think that it's already done okay is how we do it that one's done that's part of is that part of our retainer then with you or is it typically an extra thing I mean I know you do it I'm just curious like if you had to write a grant is it extra over and above typically if we if we're going to do a a grant process we we come to you with a cost to do that so yeah and that's something we pre-approve okay thank you Kevin okay and and again depending on what type of Grant it is this could be another function of the assistant City administr like if there's a grant to put in trails in a park or something we the staff would be doing that just just as an example when we went through that LP application for North Hornsby we came to you with the cost to do that so perfect thank you okay thank you uh 35 consider a newsletter that explains processes for Citizens um and I think that probably is somewhat related to number 32 just awareness and for Citizens that are going through the any process really but permitting especially I would put that at a low yeah there was three lows already because if you're not doing a project you're not interested so you send out a th stamps for a buck a piece as th000 bucks and until you're ready to subdivide or put in a septic tank or whatever you don't care but if they come up to the counter and they're properly educated at that point yeah I think it's probably more important to have it on the website so when somebody's ready to do it and they go to the website that's their first place they're going to go then it's it's there or it could also be I mean we had um Paul here talking about his willingness to help with podcasts I mean that could be a podcast and certain things are really high frequency you don't have to mail it out yeah one of the other things and this is getting back to streamline that we've found particularly useful in other situations is especially in relation to building permits like how do I get a permit for a septic system is a brochure was developed which outlined those steps which you could pick up when you went to get your permit which made some of the explanation a lot clearer and maybe that's what we need to look into too for certain types of permits okay and they were all mostly low so we'll leave that alow 36 provide a report that includes business changes comings goings inquiries expansions that was three mediums and one low um me is a low okay that's two three you can put on the website if you don't cost anything I think this is for this I know where this is is coming from I mean we we we heard this a lot from the Planning Commission where they didn't know that something was kind of in the in the um pipeline until a permit you know was in front of them for approval and so I think and economic development has said the same thing it'd be really nice to kind of just know like what the interests have been and if there's people who are interested and I think Jack you've done a nice job of kind of giving heads up on some of these kinds of things and um I think that's where it was coming from it wasn't really meant to be a report as much as it was just trying to kind of let people know and we we we've started doing like a little bullet point presentation to the Eda on economic development projects we could just include that as an update to the planning yeah I think it's I think it's really helpful I mean if you know that there's five different businesses that are expressing interest but I wouldn't suggest a newsletter or the stamps that go no that's why I'm saying I don't think it's I don't think it really is a formal report I think it's really just kind of keeping the various boards in the know what's going on that makes sense all right 37 maximize the interactions of the city planner with staff staff believes this is done but the council would need more information so I don't know I mean um I don't know what that means I I don't either that was a big question mark with me because number one are they talking about Dean are they talking I think they are talking about Dean and I think this is one that we asked Ellen to go back to her notes and tell us what because I I had a meeting on Monday or Tuesday with the city's planner and with h Elanor and Jack and went through a few details of a few projects but that's all that's need to be known until something further comes of it when they apply for something so you can't be gossiping around the back room of somebody came in and what's going on so I think that's a low for me okay 38 sponsor a newsletter for the businesses now this had two lows two mediums but also a note Janet had a hold and until we hire our assistant because that's going to be part of their job description is enhancing the website and communication information yep so would this be to promote business local community local business y or or even just letting the business you know if there's going to be you know something going on in the city that the businesses would be interested whether it's a big road project or you know a moratorium or something like that yeah I would would say that's at least a med say throw me in as a low okay please we already assigned it to somebody so that somebody isn't hired yet so that's that's going to predicate when it gets done and the same with the next one increase utilization of the website for providing news pictures and extending appreciation so that's going to be the role of the new uh assistant I mean we have two highs and two mediums um I do a medium on that okay we got three more we're almost done ensure a process for a reasonable timeline for calls to be returned and emails to be answered four highs hi hi hi and that'll probably go into our policy handbook um 41 provide information on the budget as it relates to the Committees and share what grants the city is applying for that was four mediums hold do ADM as the information is available okay well or maybe yeah not what the grants are applying for but what you've received yeah but whatever I think I think this might have come from parkboard so as they worked on the master plan there were some things that you know we had shared that you know we we could probably get grants for that so I think they're probably I I'm guessing this might have come from one of the representatives from the park board saying it'd be really great to know if you if the city applied for one of those grants and it has to do with the park that we're kept in the loop on that yeah I think that's a high and probably not too difficult no it's easy all right last but not least invite more politicians to the meetings whose idea was that low low low no I like when Senator K comes I mean definitely he is helped us a lot and he always has good information um and and that I mean it helps us and it helps him but I think I think one of the things that again I don't know where this came from but you know we don't really we used have we ever had like our County Commissioner come and just address the council what's going on I mean that might be helpful to know election years yeah so I mean you know once a year having Jeff come and say Here's what's going on in the county that might affect you guys and we used to have that girl from the Met Council yeah Su vento sento vento new one now and then she got replaced by somebody we've never seen and has never seen us so I mean it it it wouldn't be bad to reach out to some of those kinds of folks and see if they're you know but nothing ever came of it all the meetings she came to no she actually did some things for us I mean you know we were looking at some grants to try to get some things done and she hooked us up with that and but never happened well we applied for it we just didn't get the grant but that's typical met council stuff well it wasn't to the Met Council we applied they just happened to know the process anyway it's so I will say on that when I went to that met Council Deal like State of the State deal um I'm drawing a blank on her N I talked to sento she introduced me to ours but it's I'm blanking on it but she did offer to come and if if we wanted to invite okay I know Sue felt it was really helpful for her to know more about the the communities that she represented so it's sort of a two-way thing well she was a nice person her husband used to be a representative Bruce Bento Y and so she got the job on the Met Council but nothing ever came of it for all the meetings we had with her well that we know I mean that she could help us I mean it's I I it it's a good one we'll leave it on we'll leave it as low there's no cost to that we'll so that was it um thank you for your participation thank you for your comments I will um make the updates I'm going to send it to Ellen to get clarification on the few the few that we still need clarification on and then after that we will take it and and then we'll uh put it in an Excel document so we can sort easier and do our priorities and start assigning who we feel is is the best one to um address each one and then we'll come back and show you that thank you so I say thank you for all the work everybody you're welcome I know it's a lot of monkey business but and I couldn't do it so I have I got to be thankful somebody can yes all right uh announcements and reminders absentee voting June 28th through the August 12th city hall parkboard meeting July 16th Planning Commission July 17 city council meeting July 24th and then it's almost August yikes and so uh I would like to close the city council meeting and have a close session to consider offers to purchase city-owned real estate identify as P 2432 2212 00005 and P 24 32221 00006 pursuant to the Minnesota statutes section 13 d05 subdivision 3 C3 have I done that correctly counselor yes you did all right and with that we're going to move to the uh Senior Center so we can look at all the maps close up on the big screen etc etc and [Music]