[Music] We weren't quite there yet. >> Commissioner Hyman >> present. >> Commissioner Wgner >> here. >> Commissioner Steeler >> here. >> Commissioner Young >> here. >> Commissioner Stender >> here. >> Commissioner >> Andy, I'm so I know it. It just it came out of nowhere again. Um, chair Gerard >> here. We're ask please stand and join us for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the stands one indivisible and justice for all. >> Chair is looking for a motion to approve the agenda as presented or with changes. I'll approve it with changes. >> The change >> on page 15. >> Wait, wait, wait. >> This is the agenda, not the minutes. >> Oh, >> any changes to the agenda? >> No. >> I have a motion. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. It's a non-debatable motion. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Opposed? >> Abstensions. Motion carries. We're at the part of the meeting. It's the open forum. We ask if anyone wishes to discuss any issue regarding the planning commission. We welcome you to come up to the podium, state your name and address for the record. Spend a couple minutes telling us your thoughts. When we've heard everyone, we will close the open forum and move to our next item. So, with that, does anyone wish to speak at this meeting, the open forum? >> Hi. My name is Heidi Bork. I live at 231 Second Avenue Southwest, which is just bordering the Spike and Hools feed mill property um directly to the south. I attended the meeting oh a couple weeks ago, I think it was um to look over the initial plans with the um uh with the businessman and um the project manager. And um I raised some concerns along with some of my other neighbors uh about um water runoff, about um lighting and how it might affect um that particular area because it is very residential on that side. Um there aren't any apartment buildings in that little >> block and a half area kind of wedged in between there. Um it sounds like that a lot of those issues have been addressed in the planning, but some of the things were a bit more like, well, I don't know exactly what the lighting is going to look like, but it'll probably be this or you know, I don't know exactly what the landscape's going to be, but it should be sufficient. Um, so my questions were just kind of around some of those maybe nitpicky pieces about what it might look like and and and what might happen if um if it's not sufficient >> there there will be uh a presentation tonight on the plans uh along with a public hearing at that time. So you have another opportunity to come up and uh state I probably should have said that first is that there'll be a public hearing at both of them. So, um, and then once you hear the presentation and the staff from the staff and the commissioners ask questions, we'll have a public hearing and you can bring any other issues you may have forward. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You live there. Your concerns are not that picky. >> Good evening, Paul and Commission. Just here as an individual today. My name is Ken Morhead. Proudly for years at 943 Southeast 12th Avenue. >> So they can hear you a little more better. >> Shall I start over? >> No, I think >> No, we're good. >> We all know who you are, Carrie. >> I thank you for that. And like I say, proudly live there because I mean that. I love the city and and I I love everything about living here. And my concern today is regarding the spike and holes, more often called gurtens than not with the expansion that's coming up. I say I'm here as an individual. I happen to be on the parks commission, but it hasn't come to the parks commission. My concern uh so this is just from me. Then I think Abby tried to give me some help today as to why. But my question is why with their expansion that they wouldn't have to have some sort of parkland dedication or money for parks? Um it seems like every other person that comes forward with their plans or their kind of plans has to do that. And so I'm al I'm already concerned that everybody refers to it as gurtens because it originally they were coming out as spikes to only clean up the feed mill and sell those products. It certainly has morphed into many other things. And now with the expansion, I'm just wondering why they don't have any need or opportunity that uh they would have to add something. So >> stay tuned. We may find out. >> I was happy to hear that. I'm here on the right night. Thank you. Does anyone else wish uh come up on the open forum? Seeing no one come forward, we'll close the open form. Chair is looking for a motion to approve the consent agenda. One item approve the minutes from the regular meeting of September 10th, 2025. Um does anyone want to make a motion and which with or without changes? >> I'll move that we approve it with changes. All right. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> And a change. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I can't say no because I don't know what the changes are. >> What the changes are. >> I mean, I can't say yes until I know what the changes are. >> So maybe um >> you got a pointer. Commissioner Wagner may want to um just make the motion with the recommended changes >> with the changes of on page 15. >> It says Chair Appalowski and it should be Commissioner >> under seconding the motion. >> Yeah. >> Is that Applic or Commissioner Andy? I just don't remember. any other changes. >> No. >> All right. Now, I'll call a question. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Opposed. >> Abstensions. >> Yeah. >> Motion carries. >> Chair, can I just ask who seconded that motion? >> I did. Andy. We'll move to uh item seven, our regular agenda. We have two items on our regular agenda. Both have public hearings and they'll both work the same way. We will begin with the presentation from the city as the application as they understand it. Answer any questions that the commissioners may have. We will then ask the developer uh come up if they want to add anything more. We may have some questions from the commission to developers. After uh that we will have a public hearing. I'll give more information about what happens during that. After the conclusion of the public hearing, it'll come back to the uh planning commission for some decisions. So with that, Abby, are you presenting? >> I am. Thank you, Chair Gerard. Members of the commission, as noted in your packet tonight, Austin Halberg of Halberg Marine has submitted an application to develop a 30 acre parcel of limited industrial land on Forest Road North. Um the planning commission did review this at your June 11th uh meeting. You saw a concept plan of this and provided some preliminary feedback to the applicant and developer as noted in your packet and just forgive me you know for the flip here. North is on the left side of the develop or on the the sheet over here. Um, as noted in the packet, the development plan, it consists of two parcels that would each operate independently of one another. The southernmost parcel would be a 10,000 foot building with a single user and contractor service yard on its own standalone property. The northernmost property uh would be further subdivided into 14 individual lots with a total of up to 121 individually owned garage condo units and then also two 30,000 square foot um office multi-tenant space to allow for different types of users that could be accommodated in our industrial district. This time there are no dedicated users for those two buildings. For your consideration tonight is your recommendation of the preliminary planned unit development and preliminary plat. Um, so just as a reminder for folks that have been on the commission for a while, those that aren't familiar with the city's code, and certainly new commissioners, the city code requires a prelim or a planned unit development on any property that has more than one building. So, um, just keep that in mind as you're moving forward that oftent times, um, applicants don't really have the luxury of asking for one or not asking for one. our code kind of pushes them into that overlay district. Um, including in the noted in the staff report, the overall the development plan is consistent with the comprehensive plan and the future land use plan. The zoning code that limited industrial B3 district allows for contractor service yards as well as industrial multi-tenant structures. One thing to note, the applicant is proposing an outdoor uh storage yard associated with that industrial multi-tenant structures on the northern parcel and the zoning code does not allow for that type of use when it is not associated with a contractor service or contractor's business. So noted in the staff report, generally speaking, the PUD meets the dimensional standards. Um, one of the tricky parts is is the development will be further subdivided um into these little condo units. Those individual condo units don't meet the zoning code because the zoning code's looking for large tracks of land for large development. Overall, this is going to meet the general intent because we've got that large track of land with these buildings that then would be further subdivided into the smaller garage condo units. Um, I do want to note on that type of use. Um, this has been brought up before, I think, to this commission and to other bodies. Just because we use the word condominium doesn't mean that this is a residential use. These would just be individually owned garages. Um, that's the condo nature of it is the condo is the individual lot or individual ownership model. Included in um your staff report is some assessment of the environmental considerations. As you'll see in the plans, there's a considerable amount of wetland preservation on the site that has been um being reviewed by Rice Creek Wershed District for their conformity as well as going through the technical evaluation panel for all impacts to wetlands at this point. Um, as of right now in conversations with Rice Creek Wershed District, they do believe that the plan is substantially compliant with the rules and regulations in place for wetland preservation and potential impacts. Additionally, um, the plan does account for storm water management p management in a series of ponds on both properties that do kind of um, hug the sites and hug those wetland areas. landscaping. Um on that northern site, the development is proposed to have or is required to have 75 overstory trees and 46 um which they're proposing 46 trees. Additionally, they're proposing uh 154 understory trees and shrubs. So, one thing to note is this does not meet our even new landscaping standards because as a reminder to folks, they are industrial districts do allow for a large amount of imperous surface area and getting those um in landscaping areas in when we do also allow for the impervious impervious gets tricky. We talked about that when we adopted our new landscaping ordinance. One thing staff would note is if the city is not favorable to that outside storage area kind of tucked back behind the wetland area, this area does get preserved. It's a nice little woodland stand that does get preserved and that tree preservation should be accounted for some of the maybe lack of putting in more landscaping in the area. Um the southern site this building is a little bit yet to be determined though they are asking to kind of have that entitlement of the use of the contractor service yard. Site plan review will need to occur on that southern um building which means that building its site design all of the landscaping will come back before you at a later time. One thing noted in the staff report is uh and what the commission may know is Forest Road is an underdeveloped road that's kind of a rural segmented road. The development plans right now don't show improvement though our code does require them to not only improve the road but to extend the utilities down. So as part of final plat review, they will either need to have plans for that or have worked through some sort of other agreement. It should be noted to the planning commission um interstate uh companies just to the north had a very similar requirement from the city that they would need to improve the road and extend the utilities. The city council did enter into an agreement with interstate companies that in giving interstate companies the option to develop the road or to put give the city funds to for the road to be built. Um because we have a variety of developments that are happening through here as well as the city's uh airport, concern has been raised about the peacemeal development of Forest Road and whether or not pooling the funds and doing a larger infrastructure project was in the public's best interest. Part of the reason that the city council did this is inter at the time of interstate was knowing that this development is coming along. We are in conversations with this developer and with or with this developer and interstate companies about the possibility of still getting this project done as both of these sites develop. Just kind of um I don't know. We're we're I want to say Russian roulette, but we're having a we're arm wrestling on who's going to do it. >> There are parts of horses to be decided. >> Yes, we're still trying to figure out some roles and responsibilities in that whole um getting forest road improved. So, just know that they're aware um that the responsibility is theirs and we need to work out some other agreement if they don't anticipate doing that at this time. Um noted in the staff report is also um some just concern for the kind of visual character of the building. The city does have uh design standards which do require a differing of materials and articulation every so often though the applicant um is proposing kind of those um kind of capstone entryway at the in at the center in the of the development. So for folks went the wrong way. So these are the two buildings. There is a gate at this location where only owners would be allowed. Um those kind of capstone architectural elements would be right at that entrance. What staff is recommending is that the developer work to kind of um make some sort of better articulation either throughout the building or on each end to kind of just help uh improve the design aesthetically across the entirety of the building. Now, some might say, well, why wouldn't that be done on all four sides? The rear of the building, um, what is facing west will not be visible from any public right of way. And that is one area which staff would say the city should be considering concessions on as the PUD um, in that we shouldn't necessarily be placing undue burdensome for increased design standards in areas where that design isn't going to be seen by the general public. A neighborhood meeting was held for, forgive me, it's included in your packet. I don't remember the exact date. And assistant development director Steve Gilmore and I sat in there until almost the whole time and not a single person showed up. So, um, not to say that there isn't uh public concerns, we just haven't heard from the public yet. So, tonight again before you, you have a recommendation to the city council for preliminary PUD and plat. As a reminder, this is a two-step process. Um that two-step process would be the preliminary PUB plat included in that is site plan approval, conditional use permit approval um for that contractor service yard and um then that will end up coming back for final PUD final plat. So tonight staff's recommendation is the planning commission motion to recommend the city council approve the force road garage condo preliminary platin subject to the listed conditions in the staff report. Uh the applicant Austin Halberg is here tonight if you have questions for him or developers representative. Any questions for me? >> Questions for staff? >> I have a question. >> Yes. Um, has the fire chief kind of signed off on this and they can get their big fire trucks back in there? >> Yep. Uh, Chief Newman has taken a look to uh determine whether or not there would be not only sufficient width between the buildings but also that turning moving radius and there would be. Additionally, one of the comments provided by the fire chief is that we would have this um secondary emergency access and that emergency access would require that this is maintained so that emergency vehicles can get through here and in on this side should there be something that would be blocking this entrance as well. Hydrants would need to be coordinated with uh the fire chief at the time that we're getting closer to installation. Any questions, >> Susan? >> Abby, under bulk standards in the lot configuration, we're basically looking at 125 owners because you've got, you know, empty spot condos down below. Under storm water management, we've got a private agreement between the few pe two future property owners will be required to ensure that the pond is maintained. um this I'm I'm I'm trying to figure out how this is actually going to function. Sure. >> Because um if if we've got um two owners, that makes a lot of things different. Um they can an owner of all of these condos can hold them accountable for keeping keeping them neat and clean and not scuzzy stuff outside things parked. On the other hand, with 125, as I counted them, o different owners, holding folks accountable is going to be a challenge. And then would the city have to go to each of the condo unit owners to deal with some of the storm water issues or the pond issues? >> Great question. Um, so there will be a homeowners an owners association. There will not be homeowners in this development. >> On my notes, it's a building owner association. >> There will a be a building owners association on the northern portion where there's the 121. So, or the 120 units. They will all have a share in that owners association. So the agreement on the maintenance of the storm water ponds would be with the single owner of the contractor's yard property on the south and the owners association on the north. Okay. Um we don't need it for the prelim preliminary but before the final we really need to be able to take a look at how that building property owner is going to be structured. um just because the potential for a meal of hess is is is really there with that many owners in that smallest space. Um uh if I might, Commissioner Young, um condition 1D, it does indicate proposed um declarations including but not limited to the prohibition of residential uses will need to be submitted to the city for review. Um, but I'm just saying to you and and sort of to them that, you know, that's something that I at least am merely going to be looking at. Um, the the condos are right up to the line of the easement um that faces the Hardwood Creek Trail. Um, that is one of the most used trails in Washington County. It is also something that as Forest Lake develops and we are more collaborative with some of the other cities that are developing trail and station and historic um recreation um opportunities. We need to make sure that to the best of our ability this area looks good. And so I am hoping that there will be significant landscaping between the back of those buildings and the trail or considerable architectural interest on what is essentially the back of those buildings that faces east toward the trail. Um again this is this is an area where we are looking for folks to um be more touristy doing more station you being able to be in Forest come to Forest Lake as part of a circuit um that'll connect the Twin Cities with with us with the properties to the east all the way over to the state and the Gateway and Browns Creek trails. Um, so I'm I want to make sure that to the best of everybody's ability, we're making that look good. I'm also a little bit concerned um in that area water management and the old tile areas has been an ongoing problem ongoing ongoing ongoing. And so as the city engineer and y'all are looking at how drainage to the east is handled, making sure that that does not adversely affect the properties on the other side of 61 because Ryan will remember where much of the the the tiles and the drainage in the area of this development became a problem and so the area on the other side by Shadow Creek was not able to drain properly to go to the to the west. >> If I might just uh comment on that as Shadow Creek has been developing, we have been able to identify some of those issues and improve the storm water conditions. Additionally, with this property as well as the interstate properties to the north, the city has been uh protecting those wetlands and obtaining easements for those historic drainage flows to continue the way they were supposed to go because they're coming from the east through these sites north to Clear Lake. Um there's been some problems with that and this is really helping improve those conditions. I I didn't see a a a a clear drainage or grading plan yet because this is preliminary. Um but I wanted to bring that up because it's it's been a big challenge in the past. Um, and I guess I was somewhat surprised that yes, even though this is an industrial property that they're looking for downward migrations on our new reduced landscaping requirements. Um, but perhaps as they look at the area between the condos and the trail, um, some of that can be mitigated and um the making sure that that there isn't pallet storage um and I don't think well yes there there could be um in that contractor's lot um >> pallet racking pallet racking storage again making sure that is screened from the east and and the trail area. >> That's all I had, sir. >> H Andy. >> Yeah. Um, this is probably more of the ownership agreement, but I know in other places where there's been these types of car parks or car garages, they've turned into meeting places, car shows, and fundraisers drawing hundreds if not thousands of people to come to them. Is there any provision? because there's not a lot of parking in that area. >> Um, as of right now, staff hadn't contemplated that, but I certainly think that through this process, we can add in some requirements and those uh owners declarations like I caught myself there. Um, because in addition to those residential uses that we'd be concerned, I know it's recently brought up to me too about just in general storage outside, right? not necessarily that storage spot in the back that we haven't really discussed at all or you know we'll staff brings up but also just the I'm working on something I'm gonna leave this outside for a while and then I don't come back for a week and next thing you know clutter's compiling so >> well and and the drive lanes aren't that wide and if somebody stores something outside their front door it's going to be an issue and and again Um, rules enforcement on residential homeowner associations can be a Melvah. I'm I'm just This could be even more. You're right. >> Is there anything like this in the city? So far, >> there is not. There is in Columbus um is my understanding. I believe it's it's Columbus is the nearest one >> down by Wallbox >> where the flowers are down there >> through the chair. >> Jim, what enforcement do we have to make sure that these don't turn into residential condos once you put a bathroom and a living area above them? It's very easy to not realize that you have people living in these condos and is there enforcement and what what does the city have? >> So, there is a couple things. Um the city can as through part um so in the approval documents the final PUD overlay will say these are the permissions allowed in this area and that gets recorded against the property. So any future sale it'll be bound to each of those properties. If the city does find that there is a use that is not allowed in any zoning district and it doesn't matter what the land type is, single family, residential, industrial, we do have the right to provide adequate notice to advise of the zoning code violation. Then we do have the right to proceed with citations. Um, and then we do have the right to move forward with actual legal action through the court system as well. One more for the chair for the complex or just for the individual unit because if it becomes an individual unit that's continuing or multiple units that become problems, how do we enforce that if we're not able to enforce the actual complex if they're individual signal units? >> Sure. So, um I'd have to check with my legal counsel. In a circumstance, if it was a renter, the renter gets notified and the owner gets notified. In a circumstance like this, it could be um that the city is uh can hold the HOA and that individual owner uh responsible. I mean really to be honest with you, it's our hope that the owner's association is responsible for the enforcement of the declarations. the city cannot um is not responsible for enforcement of declarations and therefore we would be first reaching out to the owners association. Susan, >> Abby, we we've talked before that the city just doesn't have the resources to to even investigate and and deal with um you know, things over time that we already have an issue with. And so I I really do not want to have city staff with this additional burden so that we really really don't have resources to correct things that could be life safety issues depending on what somebody decides to put in one of those buildings. >> Sure. >> They will each have water and sewer. They will each have water and sewer and they will be uh I do believe each have to be have fire suppression systems as well because of that individual condo nature or uh fire separation. Um, I will note, um, if the mindset was we're concerned about the future impact to the city, it would be a a fairly anti-do, you know, do anything approach. And so, um, I understand the concern of the commission and these are things that we are trying to make sure in every new development we're thinking, we're putting those conditions in in the development approvals. the city can't always go through and worst case scenario we can hold hearings to yank development approvals. Don't want to go there, right? Um we do have more resources. We do have a quarter time code enforcement officer. The city council has asked for that position to be increased uh next year to full-time. Um not to say that that's where we want our energy to go. Um, but it is developments like this that do in help increase our tax base that do help give us the resources to help manage property in the long run. And I think this has some real potential there. There's a lot of small businesses that would like a place in town that is outside their residential neighborhood building for their small businesses. And I think that this this is a a really neat idea and a neat concept and it's a perfect location for it. Um I just want to make sure that we get the details as right as possible. >> I do want to clarify the record that I cannot state that these would be allowed to have business uses in each of the condo units that they are I think are intended for the person that doesn't have that threecar garage. Remember those little lats guys that were approving? We need some place to put our boats and our toys. Susan hoistard. >> Tim, I have I have concern with the woodlands being removed in the back too. If they're going to remove existing woodlands for essentially lot storage and they can't meet the requirements initially, that's concerning when it when it when it comes to the landscaping. If they're already not meeting the requirements and it is an active area, why would we allow them to essentially remove a large patch of existing woodlands that is in the back of the property? Just concern >> along those lines. Um, since we don't allow outdoor storage, >> what is happening back there? I'm not >> That is what's being proposed in the staff report. Staff is pointing out that that is >> not allowed. Yep. So we have to nyx this in our propo our >> your recommendation >> would be to eliminate this >> um >> as a outdoor storage it can be trees >> n exactly it >> I get yes and we did not and >> I didn't see it in any of the recommendations >> we did not include it in the recommendation or the conditions of approval. >> We'll take care of that. >> Thanks for pointing that out. >> Other questions? Andy, did you have another one? Uh, I guess I was just going to wonder the airport next door probably has a similar situation where they're not allowed to live in hangers. >> That might be a place to go look for some information and language if >> um leases between the city and airport hanger owners I don't believe allows for residential living. >> My father had a hanger in Blaine and they weren't even if your motor home was in there, you couldn't sleep in it. So just if you're looking for places to look. >> Thank you. That's been a little >> any other >> I have a question on following your outdoor storage unit because Interstate Companies has outdoor storage, right? And they've even added outdoor storage to the south. >> They have. >> Okay. >> And that's that's right on Forest Road, >> correct? >> Whereas this is kind of hidden behind all the buildings and only be visible. >> This is not a contractor's yard. >> Oh, okay. So, that makes it the difference. >> That's the difference. writing have the outdoor storage on the one to the right. >> Yes. So, both of these gray boxed areas are those outdoor storage areas. This one is specifically in relationship to the use of this property for a contractor. >> The problem of h letting them use that as storage. >> Which one? >> This down here. That that one that is woodland right now. >> I mean, other than you're killing trees, but um >> we've got the the zoning code. The zoning code doesn't allow it. >> Okay. So, it would it would require a variance or require or there be it it just wouldn't >> the zoning code does not allow for outside storage just by itself or mini storage with outside storage. >> The code is really specific in that if you're a contractor in our community, there's certain areas will allow you to be and only certain areas will allow for you to store your stuff outside. Could that storage be tied to the storage of that other building? Because that would be an individual contractor. And I I just I hate to see him. He's got this land. It has a value back there. Um if he's told he can't use it for I mean, if if that storage could be tied to this other storage behind the building, is it then acceptable? Because then it's a single contractor's yard. >> He could be a whole another set of condos back there. It doesn't have to be outdoor storage for him to have good and productive use of the property. >> So, you're suggesting that even putting more more garage units back there is a possibility. >> Well, in other words, it's not as though this is a prohibit prohibition against him having beneficial use of the property. He could use it for something that we allow. >> Okay. Just not the storage yard as shown. Correct. >> Got it. >> Any other questions to staff? >> Yeah. >> Uh go ahead. >> Um yeah, I like what Andy brought up about uh car shows and similar things going on like that. Um I think it's up to us to kind of um think about these hypotheticals until, you know, something happens and then somebody turns around and somebody goes, "Well, did anybody think of that?" >> Um and I'm just wondering if Um, >> absolutely. >> You know, like car shows and other uh, you know, art fairs or something like that. Um, so maybe >> event centers like we have at the airport, >> right? And so like people are allowed in maybe I don't know if they're allowed to park on on the property uh, inside the storage area if they park on the outside road and walk in. Um, and then maybe just to kind of see what um, I know once you mix alcohol with anything, everything turns out badly. So, would there be maybe a restriction upon bringing alcohol into the into the units? >> Um, great questions, Commissioner Hyman. Um, Hyman, the um, right now some of these things have not been discussed with the land owner. I do think that these are great conversations with the future developer. Um, you know, I can see the concern for special events. I can see the concern for things like parking, off-site parking, parking on Forest Road, things that we should probably be vetting through with the development team. They might be able to come right up and say that we're just not going to allow that. And that might be the case. Otherwise, I think that this body should probably make some direct um provide some input to not only the developer and the council regarding some of those uses. My first my first instinct is to say we shouldn't be allowing just like outside storage, we shouldn't be allowing for public events. Um when it comes to private land, we can't really necessarily dictate private use or private alcohol consumption. Um, we can if there are public events, then there are some licensing requirements. Um, and we can definitely tie to that in the in the permits and such, but at the same time, our laws just automatically will apply in some circumstances. Does that help address the inquiry? >> Yep, that helps a lot. >> One more thing through the chair. Abby, could you give me a little bit of clarification on the front two buildings with the tenant space on the front? Yeah. >> Jojo joining the street. Will that allow for retail sales or what type of businesses will they be allowed to utilize that for? When you look at it, it almost looks like a direct strip mall. >> Yeah. >> Is that the plan there? Are you going to have a taco house in one and like >> general retail is not I don't believe in the limited industrial district. This is more office um light industrial. It could be a circumstance where you might have a contractor, you know, and they um have a small office up front and then a space where they pull their vehicle in the back. Um, you know, it I'd have to look up the zoning code to see specifically, but I don't think that this is a district that's going to allow for >> taco huts, retail sales, >> nature. >> This the uses still need to conform to the underlying zoning code provisions. Sounds good. >> Great questions. >> So, somebody could have the part of their business, their their home business like their their my question earlier when you said it. No, it's for toy storage. >> Um I cannot >> I'm confused now. I apologize. >> Yep. That's okay. Understandable. So, there's two different kind of types of uses on the property. There's the the this type of multi-tenant office warehouse, right? This is the strip in the front. >> This could be one of those circumstances where there might be a small engine repair guy or an architect's office or something like that. That is the true intent of those two small not small but those two strips up in the front. Got it? Um, these individual garage condo units, I cannot state that those would be allowed to have business individual business uses in them. It's not to say the code would prohibit it, but I don't know if those owners declarations are going to allow for it. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Does the applicant wish to add anything to the conversation or give us your thoughts? And as always, we ask state the name and address for the record. Welcome back. >> Thank you, chair and commissioner. Scott Peterson, 8860 152nd Street, Hugo, Minnesota. Hugh representing the applicant, Halberg Green. Um, happy to answer any questions you have. As you guys know, we were here in the summer in front of you. In the meantime, we've worked with staff, advanced plans, incorporated a lot of comments as well. Um, before I answer any questions, I do think one thing that's that's important to note here is just scale, right? This is a 30 acre parcel. So I think it's really hard to when you look at that to understand scale. So a couple things I just want to address up front. So we use the fire truck as our turn-in radius for everything in there and the ideas of that that could be a that could be a toy hauler, that could be a large boat, it could be a large pontoon boat, right? So to further expand upon that, we're 60 foot wide roads in there, 55 foot wide roads. Those are bigger than most residential streets as well, right? And so I think some of those things are hard to scale. A gentleman here made a comment about um off-site storage. that's probably five or six hundred feet off of where we've proposed it from the front. So, I just think it's important as you look at a lot of the projects that come in front of of councils and commissioners are one or two acre deals. I I just think it's important to kind of level set there for a second, but happy to answer any questions or build upon any uh previous comments. >> What's the current thought on uh no outside storage on that large parcel? >> Yeah, we we'd like to have it. Absolutely. I think, you know, one thing to note, even with the outdoor storage being there and the woodland preserve being removed, we're still conforming. We're still conforming at I believe 53% where we could go up to 60%. So, even with that being there, we're still we're still conforming to the woodland preservation. >> But our zoning ordinance specifically bans outdoor storage on that parcel. >> Yep. >> Due to the zoning, but you still plan to want to go ahead with it? >> Yeah. I mean, I I think it's important for the offering and I think it's important to kind of level set for a second. I mean, if you drive 61 right now and you see Vinco, you see Twin Cities docks and lifts, you see, you know, the old Washington County residential compost yard, you see some of these things. I mean, those are directly on 61. We're proposing a development on a frontage road to 61, I would say, either further removed from traffic path. And I think we've presented a better elevation, may I say, for what we're proposing here. So I think using what's around as the surrounding areas and using how we're positioned and that that was our approach to say this is an important use. I do think when you look at the outdoor u when you look at condominium storage components there is an importance for some sort of outdoor storage. That's why we've removed it. You've got seasonality with people with different types of equipment, different types of boats. Maybe you've got really expensive stuff you want to enclose. Maybe you've got just a big flatbed trailer. And that's why we've we've done our best to try to position as far away >> with respect to the the two of the things. When I was here on the planning commission when Bingo was built >> and we required them to have full screening from 61. Now it's been there quite a while. Some of their trees have died and I'm going to be asking staff to make sure that they replant those trees for the for the the screening that was required as part of their conditional use permit. In addition, this planning commission was really strict with Washington County and that's why those large BMS are there and why they're going to be adding landscaping on those BMS to further screen the buildings. >> The the new the new Washington County, correct? >> The new Washington County. >> Okay, understood. >> With respect to the boat lift, that is a very temporary use that um on city- owned property that quite frankly is going away. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and again, I'm not I we're all good residents and we're all trying to make money and have businesses here. I'm just saying as a as somebody looking at, you know, why we would position it here and why we thought we thought it's an appropriate use. We understand the code doesn't understand that or doesn't allow that, which is how we structured it and we tried to position it in the least obstructive place possible. But >> perhaps you want to talk to staff about a zoning change for that port for that area, especially since it'll be sold as a separate property eventually. >> I'm sorry, I'm not quite following. Sold as a separate property and not >> the intent here is that anyone who has a condo can get additional space back there if they want to store some outside if I understood. >> Yeah, that earlier. >> Okay. No, I I didn't realize that. >> Other questions to the applicant. >> Will there be individual spaces for outdoor storage? Will there be a cost included? How is that the thought there that you rent the space in the back? >> That's correct. So, our thought is that would be individual assigned individual specific spaces tied to an additional additional rent. Correct. >> I just want to make one comment. There have been things in the past and pushing forward with 60% compliance and stating other properties that maybe not or were previously doesn't help. >> Okay, understood. >> There there was a mention of improving the roads. How would you do that? >> The forest road. >> Uh yeah, I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's the discussion we're starting just now with staff. Once we get through preliminary plat preliminary PUD, we'll advance to a site plan improvement or a development agreement. >> All right. I I got a just a kind of question that I don't know the answer to. Is is this going to bring a lot of traffic or almost no traffic? >> Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think you know, 30 30 acres, 125 plus minus um garage condominium uh owners. Um, I would say you're probably going to have a variety of different traffic patterns, right? Some of it may be weekend warriors, some of it may be daily, right? So, I think that needs to be taken into consideration. You know, I think from a, you know, you're adding 125 individual PI parcels, but it's almost entirely on private utilities, right? So, from like a burden to the city, you know, you're not doing snow removal in front of 125 parcels like you would a a single family home example. Um, I I think we'd we'd need to study a little bit more in kind of the the the traffic pattern. Um, I I I don't know I don't know how to articulate that. I'll be honest with you. >> Okay. Just wondering >> when you were here last, we we did bring up where the freak is snow storage going to be. Um, and we we did bring up that up last time because um your roads kind of dead end in the ponds, which is not really appropriate for for snow storage. Um, and and I I remember talking to you about some of those areas um on the the the curve about mid about midline. there's that curve and and trying to do how how you're going to do snow removal, you know, in in the areas because you've got you got buildings in there. And I realize that scale is is going to be helpful to you, but um you're going to push a lot of snow and it's going to have to come out. You you can't really have it in front of the buildings, sort of like a wind row in front of the buildings because they're cheek by jaw. So, um, you know, we we did bring that up before and and I'm not sure that that thing that we brought up before really has been considered. >> Yeah. No, Commissioner Young, I do remember that discussion. There's a spot out there. It's hard to to indicate. I don't know, Abby, if you're driving a little bit, but um if you were to go uh to the right all the way to the end of that building and then all the way forward, you'll see a kind of a and then yeah, you come back to the next row right there. that corner there that does not have a building, that's just under 2,700 square feet from a snow removal standpoint. So, if you were to look at that from like a parking lot context, I mean, that's gosh, uh, 15 stalls, right, from kind of a storage of how people look at, you know, and again, a parking lot's going to hold a lot more snow than than this would. But we we have taken that in consideration and since then we've advanced our storm water plants and we've we've calculated all that. Other question to the applicant? Annie. >> Um, do you have any comments or feedback on our business owners agreement, what some of our concerns are and if that's something that you can address at all tonight? >> Yeah, I I'll say this. Um, we obviously it's a requirement to share it with staff. It's a requirement to get agreement on it 100%. You know, we have to get it right too, right? I mean, we're we're selling, you know, anywhere between 150 to, you know, north of two $300,000 investments here. So, we have to get that right, too, or we're just not going to be successful. So, I think there'll be a natural alignment as we work through that document coming forward. >> And then I think for traffic, it's not just the 125. There's also 14 businesses along the frontage plus the contractor's lot next door. There's a lot of parking spaces there. So, you know, each one of those has four or five employees. That's a lot of lot of cars, too. So, >> yeah. No, fair enough. I think um it'll be interesting to see who comes into those flex office spaces. I I really think there's a demand for this, you know, three, four employees that need to park, a bookkeeper, an owner, you know, most of their assets are on the back of their uh storage space. I've mentioned before when I was here, you know, a painter or a landscaper where most of their assets are, you know, trucks, equipment, you get an estimate. you don't really go to their office, they come to your house type deal. So I I do think there's some interest there and frankly we've got some preliminary interest is ready in those spaces. So traffic pattern I think depends on kind of who ends up there to some extent. >> And I think just my last thing is I I am not I don't think I could be supportive of including the storage when it is not compliant with zoning just for the other board members to know. >> Any other questions for now? We may have questions after the public hearing. >> Thank you, chair. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, this is a public hearing. We ask if you'd like to speak to this application, please come up, state your name and address for the record. Spend a couple minutes giving us your thoughts. Once we have heard from all parties, we will close the public hearing and we'll come back to the planning commission for further discussion and recommendations. So, with that, we'll open the public hearing at 6:53 p.m. Does anyone wish to speak to this application? >> Don't all rush. There's time. Abby, do we have anything to be read in tonight or Steve? >> No, sir. >> I'll ask again. Does anyone wish to speak to this application? Last call. Seeing no one come forward and having nothing to be read into the record, we will close the public hearing at 6:54 p.m. With that, commissioners, what's your pleasure? Well, let me start with we are looking to have two motions this evening. both motions we are recommend recommendation uh to the city >> I think we actually it's just a single motion with um including both the preliminary plat page uh 27 in your packet has the single motion um I will note though one thing that is not included as you noted chair Gerard is that outdoor storage area and whether or not the planning commission would like to make a recommendation on the council specific to that use. >> Further discussion, commissioners. >> Oh, I scribbled some notes and you'd see if this is what we what you're suggesting or what we're maybe feeling. The adding another point to the recommendation that we approved tonight. The outside storage is not compliant with zoning and the proposed development of that that area would eliminate the significant trees. So we would recommend it not being part of the final PUD >> is something like that. >> Yep. I think that that's sufficient enough as like a sixth condition. Other comments, discussion >> that it would be on the on the northern parcel for associated with the um multi-tenant, not necessarily in the southern parcel where it would be outright permitted by the uh underlying zoning use of a contractor yard. >> I think east and west, >> it's north and south. Um the north is on the left side of the um should should have probably tipped them in our packet but we're also used to the landscape version and all right other concerns not chair is looking for a motion. >> Mr. Chair, I'm going to move that we recommend to the city council the PUD amendment and the preliminary plat with the six conditions that the planning commission uh on the preliminary plat that the planning commission has discussed tonight. >> I have a motion. Do I have a second? >> A second. >> I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. >> I. >> Opposed. Abstensions. >> Motion carries unanimously. Thank you very much. I believe this goes to the city council's. >> Um I was thinking it was Monday, but it might be the 27th. Monday. Judging by the applicant's face, I think it's Monday. We were planning for Monday. So, um, yeah. >> Well, as long as the applicant knows, we're good. >> Well, I don't know. I mean, I want to make sure it's on the agenda for them, right? >> Good luck with your project. Thank you for coming this evening. >> Move to item 7B. It's also a public hearing. Spike and Hool's phase 2 at 552nd Street Southwest, GLG Forest Lake Properties LLC. We have a site plan and a PUD preliminary and final plan. >> You can give me just a second. I know the applicants are here. They were respectfully waiting till the first uh discussion was done. I just wanted Could you just let them know that we're moving forward? Thank you. Um GLG Forest Lake Properties LLC um is seeking the city's approval of to move forward with the second phase of their development plan for 3.9 acre site to be located at uh 55 Broadway Avenue West. Um so included up here on the screen for you is the entire site area which includes um their kind of first phase of the development plan which included a 2022 restoration of the Hoos feed mill building. Um this is the downtown mixed use area and as part of that district um the city allows for retail sales and services. What the this second phase of the development plan would do would be to put in a proposed uh greenhouse associated nursery yard and improve all uh parking and drive aisle areas throughout the entire development site. Um really what this is second phase of this development plan really is to do is to clean up the site and to create a more urbanized environment for this historic property and for its ancillary uses. So um the downtown mixeduse district I noted does allow for retail sales and services. There's been a greenhouse and nursery yard on the site historically for quite some time. I will say that those have been more temporary in nature, seasonal in nature. This permanent uh this building would be permanent and the code does allow for these kinds of accessory uses when they're subordinate to those other types of uses. So again, as I mentioned to you earlier, PUDs are required whenever we have more than one building. And that PUD overlay is really intended to provide for that design and flexibility. Um and in this the development um flexibilities really kind of focus on building design standards, some landscaping and parking. Um getting into that building design proposed for you is a commercial greenhouse. And forgive me for not pulling out a picture of the packet. I will pull that up in just a minute after I'm done with this chatting a little bit. The commercial greenhouse um some would argue don't necessarily fit in our downtown area. However, the commercial green houses design fits with the historic feed mill design. We have got a large metal building on this site and they're really trying to make complimentary design to the historic feed mill building that arguably stands out in the urban design of our community because of its historic nature. Um that's one area that they want to um for that some flexibilities from the city. Landscaping requirements um 68 overstory trees are proposed. Uh 42 are are 68 are required. 42 are proposed. And then uh 203 understory shrubs and trees are required. 27 are proposed. This is an area that I've talked with the applicant about improving um significantly. Let's be honest, this is Spice and Hool is a sub subsidiary of Gertens and we know that they're going to do well, but we want to actually see that plan shown a little bit better in terms of beefing up that landscaping. One of the areas um that we have talked with them about improving is the area around the storm water pond. There was concern at the public meeting about the potential for people falling into that pond. So just increasing some of that landscaping in that area to help reduce those potential potential um things that could happen. Um and then also what's noted in the staff report is parking as noted uh originally the development is proposing to improve the entire site almost you know going I can't say almost all going impervious surface but going with a large amount of impervious surface to create designated drive and parking aisle areas. Um the property has never been assessed for conformance with the parking standards that are in place at the city's regulations. So staff is um staff asserts that this is substantially improving the existing conditions that are there right now given the fact that the existing conditions don't have these designated drive aisles, parking aisles, all those sorts of things that we would want in our urban development. um noted in public testimony earlier as well as the neighborhood meeting. Um lighting, the city does have a requirement that lighting would be cut off at the property line and that would be a requirement of this development. The applicant does need to provide that evidence to the city that lighting will be shielded and cut off at property lines. No new signage is proposed. um public infrastructure, the third street rightofway. We do have some uh a small um utility extension that is needed to connect the existing and proposed building as well as sidewalk improvements along the right of way in this location so that we're extending our public infrastructure along that third street southwest right ofway. uh neighborhood meeting was held um as one um resident has attested that there was attendance. There was about a handful of people that did come. We heard um concerns about that runoff, storm water um shielding, the lighting and just in general just, you know, the idea that there's this will be developed out in an urban fashion and that want to reduce the impacts to the neighborhood. um specifically that happens in that kind of south southern area where we do have residential that's that's directly adjacent. The one thing I will say is the development plan does account for its storm water on site and has been reviewed by not only the city uh race uh comfort lake forest lake wershed district as well as the MPCA for storm water review. the site is going to treat all of its storm water um that it is in needing for all of the imperous surfaces. So um tonight again planning commission's consideration is for the um planned unit development the amended site plan uh planning commission staff does recommend the planning commission again you recommend the site plan approval and PUD requests based on conformance with the applicable code and um 12 stated conditions in the staff report. The applicant and uh owner's representative are here to talk with you tonight if you have questions for them. Do you have questions for me? >> Before we start, Abby, um, we reviewed this plan, a similar plan years ago when they came in for their first >> in the No, you didn't have the second phase at that time. You were just looking at the site plan to um, remember they were moving the Oh, there we go. We had the I think it was the pickle house, pickle room. Um moving that pickle room over and rehabbing the exact the entirety of the structure, >> but they had a sketch of what they plan to do long term. >> Staff did may have shown that, but that wasn't a part of your consideration at that time. >> I was just wondering how different this was. Do you think >> this is um >> a lot different? conversations about the spike and hooves development of this property uh go back to I believe 2021. They're pre Abbey here. As long as I've been here since May of 22, this has generally been the development plan that staff has seen. >> Thank you. Other question, >> Susan? >> I've got a real problem with the parking. Um when it was a feed mill um there'd be two or three of us there in line waiting for our 50 lb sacks of horse feed or lamb food or whatever. Um it it it was not parking was not an issue. We were just there boom gone. There wasn't a lot of retail. The flower stuff wasn't there. The the turf that the the whole turf office and and that wasn't there. um when they had their recent customer appreciation, there was not room for the folks that that were there and there wasn't the big greenhouse taking up the space. Um there was spillover into the bank. There was spillover all along third. There was there was spillover into the into the back area. Um, and we in in Forest Lake, we we do love our spring planting and our fall fun stuff and our Christmas decorations and and and all of that. And um I expect that they will be considerably successful here, but they do not have enough parking now for what they have when they're they have an event or or something since they are telling us that they're going to be a more valuable asset for the community. I'm assuming that just like our existing greenhouse, they're going to have things like the prom picture areas or the the Easter thing that the Lions do um as a community asset because that's how they introduce themselves. Um and and there just is not enough parking and and when the greenhouse comes online and we all hit it um trying to buy our tomato plants way too early. um it's going to be even worse. Um so I I I have some real concerns about the parking, but then that bleeds into access on and off Broadway. Um I I have some concerns about how some of that traffic flow. So is if you could give us some some thoughts around that, I'd appreciate it. Um, my my biggest issue is going to be with parking, but I've got a few other things. Um, I realize that it says that that a condition has been added that any issues due to altered traffic or circulation and parking shall be mitigated by the applicant. But once all these buildings are in place and once all the curb and gutter and the yada yada are there, there's not a lot of wiggle room for any mitigation. It I mean it's going to be what it is unless we say yes, there is a parking issue and yes, there is a circulation issue, so tear down your building and and I don't see us ever doing that. I think that this could be an asset to the community, but I'm I'm really concerned about the parking Other comments for staff? >> Yeah, I got a question as far as um they talked about the lighting being shielded. >> What is this? What is you know what that means? Yeah, generally speaking, there's a couple different ways you can shield lighting is one having it directional that it comes right down, but sometimes there'll be um uh an actual extension that will block the light from extending over a property line. Um that lighting design hasn't been submitted to the city. Um, but we will need to see that any lighting that is installed on the property will end up being cut off at the property line as to not impact those neighbors. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> The fixtures themselves are designed in a way to shield it from spreading out onto adjacent properties or beyond the area where it needs to would go would be would >> right. I guess that was my concern that the single family houses, you know, that they would have to have everybody would have to have blackout curtains. >> No. So, I mean, you know, I I can I hear the concern. I'm trying to get to the exact page here. So, those single family residences are are right here um behind directly behind. We recognize that. So, we do have the storm water pond and landscaping around it. That is one area that we've already asked. Staff has asked for increased landscaping to help create more of that visual buffer between the two. Also to reduce the potential of um I don't want to say people falling in the pond, but that's concern is that people could just fall into this pond. Um so that's one area that will or one mitigation item to help block that lands or that lighting. But then also um the developer would need to show us where those lighting lights will go and that they will not be directed towards these properties. >> Do you know if they keep them on 247? >> That would be a question you'd want to ask the developer. >> Okay. Thank you, Susan. >> Abby. Um the the the two maps that we've got, the property lines aren't the same. Um especially on what is the southern end. Um and so I Um, at some point I kind of need to know how that's are city going to sell some property or or how that's going to work. Um, on the map that is the not the landscape map, the other one there's adjacent to the Hardwood Creek Trail. There's a whole big bubble area. um or you know it's it's there's a lot going on with this map, but that that bubble area that's that's got a square and then a a long rectangle across the top. Um that says it's for pallet storage, but then on the landscape map, there's some landscaping in that area. Um, just as I had an issue with the way our previous applicant was going to look from the Hardwood Creek Trail. Having a whole bunch of pallet storage along there unscreened is is not something that I am comfortable with. I am going to be really appreciative that the pallet and dirt storage that was on Broadway was changed this summer and it looked much much better and and I'm hoping that that as we move forward with these plans that look of Broadway so that that it is in compliance with the Broadway overlay district um is maintained. I I so far it looks it looks good, but I guess on the landscape map it looks like there's there's trees and stuff, but on the other map it's all pallet storage squared off. And so I'm I'm trying to reconcile the two maps. Um >> if you if I could just speak to that, >> there's a lighter kind of um dashed area here. Yeah, >> see that uh on the landscape plan that is identical to that pallet storage area that you're referring to. >> Okay. >> Um one thing noted just to um address the inquiry that was made about this kind of what I would say southern leg. The city does um staff did not include that on the site loc site location map. Um there are some ownership challenges through this area. Um the land owner, the uh GLG properties owns this parcel here. There's city right ofway of Second Street Southwest that we own. And then the city owns another parcel through here. This access through here is the only access to the garage for the property at 207. Um, we're in ongoing conversations with the developer about this back area here and how it is we can improve that for public benefit, not eliminating the land owners access in this area as well as just pres cleaning this up. This is not our part of this development consideration because frankly the developer is not ready to to move forward with those conversations. This is something that staff is asking the city to wait on to allow the developer to be moving forward with their overall site development plan so that we can have some conversations about this area in the back. One of the things I did include in my staff in our staff report is to eliminate the landscaping just in this area so that we could potentially look at other types of improvements through here without having to take out landscaping in the future. Ideally, and I think I can say this because Gino and I have have had this conversation, ideally we'd like to see this improved through here with some sort of potential for public parking and access to that Hardwood Creek Trail. Now, we are a long ways away from that, >> but I think that that's something that in time we can work through with the land owner. >> It's been an outstanding >> hopeful we can work through. >> That's that's been an outstanding dust bowl in the summer and a mud pit in in with a little bit of rain. Um, and then when a lot of folks drive out that way >> to avoid trying to get on the Broadway um and and that's going to that's going to continue to happen. And so the longer that stays, a dust bowl and a mud pit and dirt gets dragged out onto those roads that that's going to be a challenge that really needs to be addressed. I was hoping it would be addressed with this process. Um, but again, I'm I'm I want to make sure that that as we're doing the hard work to create trail, we've had some businesses that have put some real money into especially the lighting on that bridge and and we have more folks using it. Um, making sure that that that looks good. And Abby, that that dirt pile and concrete and mess that's that's going as part of this particular this is the improved asphalted surface line. >> Okay. The gray light grayish would still remain gravel at this time, but the developer and I, the land owner, and I have had conversations of how we would like to continue our conversations moving forward as kind of a third phase of their development plan in this back area. Um, simply put, this is one of those circumstances where the developer really wants to move forward with improving the site. And I think um us holding up on this to improve this is it's just a little short right now. We should be moving forward with where we can and continuing those conversations in good faith with the land owner that we can work something out back through here that serves their development site and the public in the long run. >> Other questions to staff? Andy? Yeah, I I I have concerns about adding more traffic to this intersection and these streets already. Um, and I'm I'm imagining there will be large either box trucks or semiis making deliveries. >> How in the world are they going to get through that parking lot? Because it looks like the only way to exit is on the would be that corner down there or through the mud road. I don't see how a a you know 40 foot semi makes that corner. That's that's one of my concerns. I'm imagining there's a large number of staff that's going to chew up half the parking that's already limited. Um I just I understand the desire to use every square inch, but I think you're it looks like it's one way in, one way out off of Broadway and everything's going to be pushed on to Third Street. And I think that's that's a design issue, I think. Well, um, just I know it wasn't a question of staff, but staff has worked with the land owner pretty considerably on this development to reduce the traffic going out onto Broadway in this location and to reduce the traffic trying to make this quickfand turn to specifically try to get the traffic moving through the site and out onto third at a controlled uh where it is more safe than maybe that Broadway access point. >> I understand that. I just we're driving more traffic in through there. But I think just in general, I don't see, unless I'm wrong, there's going to be semis making deliveries to this site. I don't know how they're going to get through those parking lots, especially if there's cars in there, unless all the park deliveries come in the middle of the night. See, when it was a female, it it wasn't such a big deal. And and and you could back things in from from the south and and you you you have more more room to do stuff. Um, the new buildings are just I I'm I'm concerned that the I understand the desire to maximize the building and make them as as as big as absolutely possible. I understand that desire. Um, but when you make this really big, beautiful building with lots and lots of plant materials and lots and lots of things that people are going to want to buy, I'm sure that they're hoping that there will be lots and lots of people. And it's already affecting the adjacent properties and I don't think that there are any cross. We do we in other places we've done the cross lot easements, you know, between two different properties to allow back and forth. I'm not aware of any in that area. >> I'm not aware of any either, nor have we asked uh to explore cross lot easements with adjacent commercial property owners. >> Other questions or staff? >> Hearing none, would the applicant uh like to make some comments? We may have some questions for you, too. Good evening. Gino Petero with Spikes and Hools and Girtton's family of businesses. Uh we are the property owners and the uh owners of the Spikes and Hools uh site. Um Pat, if you want to introduce yourself as well. >> My name is Patrick Fischer. I'm I'm kind of the consultant to help get through the process and we do the construction and all kinds of parts and pieces. So, I've been working with them for 30 years doing different pieces and buildings and development for them. So, that's my role in the project. Um, if if you'd like, I I can address some of the maybe um concerns that uh have been mentioned um uh Commissioner Young on um u parking and such. Um, often times on graveled parking lots, there's not efficient use of space because the lines aren't designated as tightly or as um distinctly as they would be on gravel lots. And parking gets to be sloppy and it gets to be where uh you don't make the best use of the spaces. And you know, we we see that we we've tried to uh address that. I I do think though, and if I put this pointer on, I don't know if there's a screen that >> I know where I got to you can. I think with uh paved parking along Broadway and the angled parking um along the the brick uh proposed nursery yard and then the the addition of parking to the south of the I call it the old pole shed. Mhm. >> Uh we are uh planning to u add an adequate amount of uh parking to you know address this uh addition. The other thing that uh we had thought in the back uh of our minds is that leg that to the south that goes out uh that would be a place where we could have staff uh during peak spring months uh park to make sure that all the paved parking that uh is there is available to patrons. Um the issue on u uh traffic flow and uh trucks coming in and out. Um currently we take deliveries in off of Third Street and then go into the dock at uh on the south side of what I'd call the old pole shed. Uh Abby, are you able to Yeah, right. Right there. And currently that's how our deliveries come in. And I would I would you know we have a semi every two days of product that comes in and let's triple it >> at least. >> So say we have two semis a day come in. I don't think that would be something that would um turn us upside down and cause difficulty. We wouldn't want that truck going in between what I'd call the nursery lot and the retail buildings. we would use uh third street to come in and third street to go out and I think that's kind of how we do it now and I think it works okay. Uh so um you know we're sensitive to make sure we don't cause big trucks with customers getting too close to each other making it uncomfortable for patrons to u come to spikes and hools um in in a busy time uh I think part of his deliveries too don't come in all semis they're coming in shorter box trucks too >> but >> so that makes it a little easier. Yeah, but let's just assume the worst case scenario. There's two, three semis a day that come in. I don't think that'll swamp the site with on on our busiest days. Uh, another concern that you brought up that I would like to address if I could was um, you know, there may be times of the year where we have an event and all of a sudden we get overwhelmed. Um, and uh, I know that's happened twice since we've remodeled. uh our grand opening definitely we got swamped. It was way better than we had uh planned for which is a blessing but you know it's >> problem to have >> it's and then uh a customer appreciation on the first weekend of September uh that Saturday we were overwhelmed again beyond and you know when those things happens we we do try to make adjustments to accommodate how we do a promotion to make sure that we're not being bad neighbors to to uh the other folks. Uh but if I could ask uh the the planning commission to consider that. Um I think having people come to Forest Lake as a destination for perhaps their favorite pet store or feed store is good for the downtown. you know, someone that lives 15 or 20 miles away that would come to downtown Forest Lake on a Saturday or a Sunday or on a on a May evening. Uh I think that's healthy for the the whole downtown area. Uh because on that trip to our store, they're driving past other places they could certainly buy those things at. So, uh, our effort is to make this a little bit more of a destination and, uh, I think we've, um, tried extremely hard to preserve the character and, you know, what that place, um, uh, has been and and hopefully can continue to exist uh, for many many, you know, for the next 110 years. So, uh, with that, uh, and there's some cleaning up and, uh, I'm sensitive to that, that that pile of dirt that's back there, that's the old foundation from the pickle house, and we wanted to preserve that. And, you know, so we didn't haul it away or throw it away. >> Uh, but we want to use that as part of our landscaping with uh, when we um, uh, do this next, uh, phase. Mhm. >> So, um I don't know if everything's perfect with this, but we've really worked hard over several years here to try to design something that fits in with the site, hopefully improves the site, hopefully is a benefit to the downtown, hopefully it's a benefit for Forest Lake, hopefully not a burden to our neighbors. Um uh and you know I was at the uh Pat and I were both were at the um I don't know if you want to call it the community meeting and and and we were able to um make note of the concerns of of uh the folks that live to the south of us >> and um uh >> a couple points to that maybe is the lighting. We'll make sure that's right because most of those are all down lights. They go outside. There's a reflector. So, I don't see the lighting being a problem because the pond is quite a ways away if you look where the lights are on this project. So, it's not like we're next door to those houses. So, there should be plenty of room in there. And you got the best landscape guy around put landscaping up around ponds because if he can't find the right plants, you're in trouble. Um, so I think we'll be fine with that. And those ponds are all coded down so that they have a code like a 3 to1 ratio on how people so it's not like people are coming to an edge and going to fall over and get the water. There's a specific code that we have to match so nobody can you can trip and fall but you're not going to go in there and trip over and just fall in the water. So we've complied, you know, with all those code requirements to make sure we're safe in there too. Um so those I know were the two biggest things with house and the people that we talked with uh about that. So, >> another question was asked about the uh the length of the would the lights be on all night? Generally speaking, at our nursery in in uh Inber Grove, everything is on timers at our at our offices, the parking lot, they're on timers. Uh at at our garden center, after 10 o'clock, the lights go off. Uh during um when we have busy nights, you know, we have staff there till 9:00. So once the staff leaves, we set the timer so things go off and don't come on until uh the morning. So um a little bit more of an issue in the winter months. You know, it'll be, you know, the parking lot will probably be lit up till, you know, 8, maybe 9:00, but I wouldn't uh and in the morning, uh staff start to show up at 7 o'clock. lights might come in at 7 o'clock, but I I wouldn't anticipate that there would be, you know, I don't like paying the Excel bill more than anybody else. Uh we wouldn't run lights on overnight. There are safety lights that are on the building that are required by building code. I I would imagine uh anything that would be required on the buildings by uh the city code, we would follow that. Um, and as the code allows us to adjust heights for stansions and and um the type of fixtures on on top to make sure that we're not spreading light too far, we're no issues on our uh on our behalf. >> Questions of the applicant? >> Handicap parking. I see you only have four handicap spots. Abby, are there requirements for property this size? I guess parking has definitely become an issue or a lot of questions. Is there something we could get a proposal or kind of a >> city normally requires >> the zoning code requirement for accessible spaces? I haven't um determined through the >> building code requirements, but they would be required to meet the accessible space amount based on the number of spaces they have on the site. >> Also based on a retail I mean the retail size on the inside. This is all been >> okay. >> It's all the color. >> There are some that are designed u on on the what I'd say across from the existing buildings, but they may be hidden in with all the symbol >> symbols and I see 4124. >> Yeah. >> Could you speak to the other existing building there uh next to the parking on the proposed nursery yard? What is that existing building for the 630 square feet down? So that was the old that was the main retail space of the old uh hools and we call it the turf shop. That's where you go to buy grass seed or herbicide or lawn fertilizer. >> Okay. >> And that can't that's going to stay. That's not going to >> that stayed. Yeah. That's all >> we love our turf and forest lake. >> If you haven't been in that building it's a cool building >> is it? So just just one other note just to >> and and not to be just too much folks so I apologize if I repeat myself but we we do take extreme uh pride and make extreme effort and to try to preserve there. There's an old shed that we have located building and it's an old shed and you know the contractor says you know Gina why are you trying to save that old thing it's going to cost and it you know we parked it next to the to the pile of foundation block you know the old sandstone foundation and I said well that would be a good spot to put supplies that people might need for tying their trees up when they leave the site or the carry outs to have a radio and their bottles of daughter or whatever. But, you know, we we put thought into trying to make sure what was there is kind of given a new life and can continue on. Um, so there was never a greenhouse like this, but I don't think the greenhouse would make this would be a detriment to the future of the site. I think the one of the main questions is the amount of parking. The city is looking at 20ome spots. You're proposing roughly half >> 51. >> Yeah. Exact numbers, you know. Um I've been to landscaping places in the my wife drags me to them. Um and they're real busy in the spring with the parking they have. I'm concerned about the peak season. I I It would be a great thing if we had a parking problem in Forest Lake, but you know, we don't. I mean, we got one event and we have a parking problem for a day and then we don't have a parking problem. You know, you go down to Minneapolis or St. Paul or Still Water, you walk for blocks to get to somewhere. Here, if you got to walk 50 feet, we consider it a parking problem. Um, >> have you been to Arts in the Park? >> Even that you're you're two blocks away. That's it. It's not a big deal. I I don't know what anyways, but I'm born and raised in Chicago, so I maybe am biased on that. U, but how do you handle the rush in the spring when we're looking for double the parking spots that this is a big ass to give us half the spots? So >> I wasn't aware that the site required and some spots because our engineers did not say that we're under park. >> So I think part I think part of what you got where your numbers are coming from we were looking at this a little bit and I think it was based on the retail square footage at 24. >> We don't know if we've got we don't think we have 24. Part of these buildings are warehouses in the back of that main building up there. existing building on 55 second street. Part of that is warehouse. So I'm not sure if that goes but to your point I don't care how much parking you build on those rush days. It's tough to park everybody if you that's what he's hoping for. We have a lot of customers. So it's it's a tough thing to try to make that. So if I point to buildings just to address this parking issue and to I think there's different calculations perhaps um occurring >> there is and if I could just clarify for the record if you don't mind the stat analysis is adding up all square footage and assuming it all retail and so that 120 is probably the worst case scenario um believing that the entire all building uses are retail. Um I do think that that number is probably less than 120 but it doesn't discredit that it doesn't necessarily conform and that is also for all uses on the site. The one thing I will say and something that the count the commission may want to consider is that the city has required in the past proof of parking um areas in which parking could be installed if needed if it determined that parking would be a problem. And maybe one of those areas could be um I'm not necessarily working into the southern end, but on some of those um southern and eastern portions of the property, they might be able to show us some proof of parking to uh get more parking in on the site. >> So, this is an issue for the city and the applicant to work out. Um, >> can I ask you a question about the uh, say you guys had like Thanksgiving special or something like that. You parking like got all jammed up. Could people park in the US bank legally? >> Um, it is not city designated public parking. >> They're parking. >> Um, but it is US banks private parking. you know, it is US Bank's private parking for their customers. So, I guess if you're a US Bank member, you probably can make that argument. We can't necessarily obligate US Bank to provide the parking for this development. >> So, if it was on a Sunday, you guys open on Sunday. So, it was on a Sunday, banks closed. And if people parked in the US Bank, it they don't I I'm just kind of snowballing it here. They won't do they have signs saying US Bank parking only? >> I'm not I'm not sure. And they definitely could talk with the US Bank about a shared parking agreement or something of of that sort of nature. Um but that just hasn't been proposed or contemplated at this time. >> Okay. Thanks. I'm I'm going to guarantee to you that you are going to have more than 51 folks at a time and a folk being a car lo in your parking lot from the the moment that we see bare ground, even if it's still frozen until the middle of June. Um, and I want you guys to be successful and I don't want you to have this big lovely building and and this I I love your stuff. I walk out of the min Minnesota court society with lunchon with several hundred dollars worth of stuff and I've been down to your southern location when it's when even that large parking lot is just stacked. Um you have a reputation for really good stuff. And um if you look at Abrahamson's uh your competition and what they have done to add significant parking um I expect you to be just as successful. So, we're not opposed to taking all available square footage um that hasn't been designated for retail and um designating that and preparing it for seasonal parking. Uh we're not opposed uh to that whatsoever. So that that southern if you want to call it that southern leg uh that could easily be converted to you know seasonal gravel parking lot at Grove Heights. We have a large gravel parking lot across the street because of our spring peaks and uh we're not opposed to that you know whatsoever. So, uh, if that's a recommendation, uh, uh, by this, uh, planning commission, we would totally embrace, uh, that as a seasonal parking area. And we could, uh, alter the landscape uh to be, uh, to the east side of it uh, so as not to be not to interfere with uh, parking and uh, perhaps then to provide additional screening for the people that are using the trail. One of our problems too is this pond has gotten so big. >> If you look at that thing, >> that's what I've had problems with other sites. These the rice creek has got these huge ponds. It just sucks up so much of your sight. So if I shrink the pond, which I can't, we're kind of caught because there's only so much parking and he needs enough size to make the project work, too. You just can't swim that building down. So it's so small that you can't get enough sales >> and I and our downtown has severe storm water management problems just right now. >> And so while we might like to say >> sure we'll we'll flood a little more. Um >> but that's the way it works. >> We we can't do that to the to the rest of our downtown. >> I just want to make sure you're aware that we're kind of caught >> right >> on all this. We can't do much to change what it is with the impervious surface. I think maybe if we could talk to staff during the week, you know, before the next council meeting, see what we can come up with maybe on that back side for some seasonal. >> I think you've heard our concerns. >> We understand your concern. >> Um, and we will see this one more time as a final plat. And if we see no changes, it'll be a little hiccup in the >> chair. Gerard, I just want to note for the record that this is not a plat. >> This is our final. It's a PUD and staff is proposing it to be preliminary and final at the same time. >> Yeah, >> I have to read the whole line, >> which is why I'm So, >> any other questions? Any applicant? Andy? >> Uh, thank you for highlighting that it's a loading dock and not a drive-thru thing. Um, I do think um the proposed nursery yard, while it's not a building, that is retail. So, I mean, when when we're talking about parking spaces, I think we really have to it's going to be very busy. So, um I think it's really important to understand that parking and traffic in and out of here is going to be an issue. So, I think um just want to make that really a big stress. >> Understand your concern. All righty. >> This this is a PUB and quite frankly for you all to get some relaxed requirements, the city looks for benefits too. And one of the things that was brought up was was park dedication because we have another industrial area that we were approving tonight that will be having or retail and uses that will be having park dedication. And I didn't see that as part of what the requirements are going to be. >> That is true. Chair Gerard and members of the commission might statutory requirements allow us for to accept land or fee in lie of parkland only at the time of land subdivision. So at the the platting process is the time in which parkland dedication land or fee can be accepted. Um, the city doesn't have a legal right to ask for parkland as part of our standard site development plans. >> Thank you for clarifying that. >> And I and I do have have and I mentioned it earlier in your introductory letter, you said that you'll be a more valuable asset for the community and was wondering what those community plans are. So, um if you um I I take a look at the the the Hool's site as something that was more than just a building in downtown Forest Lake. It was part of a community. And as you all know that that came very close to becoming something not that >> would have been a lousy event center. >> So I think the you know I think the the the efforts and the investment into trying to preserve the heritage of the site uh is u something that the community benefits from. Not to mention the um as other businesses in downtown will echo, business activity creates additional business activity. and the uh the efforts that cities will make to try to take storefronts that are emptied or boarded up or abandoned and try to make those into um vibrant places to for for the shop owners or uh residents to enjoy. Um what we're doing here I think helps in that effort to make downtown uh more of a destination, a place people want to go shop, uh a place that brings traffic to uh the surrounding business community that serves the greater public. So I think in a small part we're we're kind of doing some of that. uh and I think we've um provided uh an example in the last year and a half with this project being the first phase being completed that uh we've uh followed through on those efforts and those promises. So, uh I think the the city can expect that from uh this next phase. >> I think too he likes the old buildings and to remodel this building was not a cheap endeavor at all. I mean, it's probably easier to start from square one without a doubt because there were structural issues, all kinds of things. So, when we bought when this was purchased from Hools, that was part of the deal was that's why this was bought because we made a commitment to the Hools that we would try to maintain and keep this as an iconic place for the city because it's been around forever. And that was the things that one of the things we did. to keep this and clean it up and to see all the kids come for graduation pictures and everything else. I think it's pretty good asset for the city to have this and you can thank him and their ability to fund something like this to make this work because there are very few people that would do it. >> And Forest Lake has a very active historic group here, >> right? uh very active and um there might be opportunities for you to collaborate with them on on some further projects. >> Well, I can tell them all all about all the buildings that I think are great. So, I'm kind of a sucker for these old buildings. So, or else if it was just for economic, you would you would no one would no one would buy that building said, "I'm going to turn it into a um a new retail center." >> And and we are I mean, take a look at the what's what the historic group has done for that schoolhouse at the intersection of 4 and 61 and with further plans to come. Um we we are also suckers for our our history here. I'm good. I'm in good company. >> Any other questions for the applicant? >> All right, we may have questions later, but thank you for your time. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> This is a public hearing. We ask if you uh would like to comment on this application. Please come forward to the lecture and state your name and address for the record. spend a couple of minutes giving your thoughts and once we have heard from all parties uh we will then close the public hearing and come back for uh further discussion. So we'll open the public hearing at 7:49 p.m. Anyone wish to speak to the application. >> Thank you Chairman Gerard and I apologize for my minute of wondering how to recognize you because I'm usually here before the mayor and all of a sudden I had to quickly I didn't mean to just call you Paul. You do a great job. >> I'm much shorter, but I got the same gray hair. >> Well, I have to attend more planning commission meetings so I can get them all straight. But you do a great job, all of you. And I know how hard it is to please everybody. I'm a citizen with the congestion that's going to cause down in that Broadway area. I go I don't live in that area, but I go around that area a thousand times a week, and I can see that it's going to be a problem for the for Broadway, more of a problem. I do know their southern business, Girtton in Inenver Grove Heights, but as a citizen when they came here, I was thrilled that they were going to maintain the building, but that was it. And I don't know if the city at that time heard the big plans, how big they were going to extend everything because we do have other areas that sell products. And so in my my mind I was thinking great, I knew Willard and Joanne, they would be thrilled with the keep upkeep of the building. I'm glad they love the old things. But I'm just thinking at the city at that time, if they knew this was going to grow into a much larger parcel, couldn't they at that time have said something about park dedication or money for? And especially when I hear they're coming in to really want to be a part of the city, that might be something that they might want to do is to they won't be able to give space. You can see they don't have enough space as it's as it's presented. Close but not quite. And so they might want to do something like that to establish, as many other businesses have, a park dedication fee of some sort. because I was I was just astounded that that wasn't going to be in the discussion tonight. And I know Aby's tried to explain it to me and now I heard her explain it to you. And because I'm just a citizen that does not work with all of these rules and regulations, I just know that I wanted to make sure it was handled and discussed and if it's a timing thing where we missed the opportunity to do it at another time that we could maybe go back and address that issue. Like I said, I'm only one person. I'm not representing the park board or the park commission. We won't meet till next week and so I didn't have an opportunity to visit with them about this. So I'm just hoping that if there's any way that you can include that work on the parking situation and the congestion on Broadway, that would be my only thoughts. So I appreciate your time. >> Thank you. Does anyone else wish to speak to this application? Um hello. Yes. Uh my name's Heidi Bork and I live directly south um on the other side of that water retention pond. And um I do want to say that I've been pleasantly surprised with the phase one renovations. I mean, I think the lighting is beautiful, the facade is fantastic, and I'm very excited about uh the as about the idea of the greenhouse and the greenhouse business um being incorporated here in um downtown Forest Lake. Um I do want to raise concerns about that um southern tip and the landscaping and things around that retention pond as it does um border directly on that on that residential area where I live. Um, additional concerns raised for tonight with, you know, seasonal parking and and extending gravel parking uh up to that trail area. Um, concerns about what that might look like um for the residents that are there um for people who are using the trail. Um uh I don't think that was originally part of part of the plans and um what what would that look like for for people who live in that for people who live in that area. So, just, you know, also concerns about the the landscaping around because it does directly border with the back of my property where I've got half a dozen dead ash trees that previously blocked, you know, a lot of the light and and noise from that area. And um those are those are going and gone. And so, um being able to see some that there's some landscaping surrounding that pond. Um, but additional questions then about, you know, if there's seasonal parking and and additional landscaping being taken taken out from that side there, you know, what what what would that look like? Um, I know that we don't usually have a lot of the business parking ending up over on um over on Second Avenue um southwest there because there's really not a very good way to be able to get through. But um I do understand the concerns for the parking for the area in general um and what that might look like. So, I guess my biggest concerns are the the water, but I think that's been addressed with the pond and um shielding and landscaping and and and and that use of that sort of that southern tip there. So, thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Anyone else wish to speak this evening? >> Abby, is there anything that needs to be read into the minutes? >> No, sir. >> Record, I should say. Seeing no one come forth, we will close the public hearing at 7:55 p.m. Commissioners, well, your pleasure. Got I've got one more question for Abby. Abby, I I realize that we haven't done a whole lot with that southern area. Um, getting folks from the residential area over to the trail and and over to Lake Street from a pedestrian point of view. When you develop that, you're you're going to do a sidewalk or some sort of access along there, correct? >> Um, you mean from Second Avenue Southwest? >> Yeah, >> I think currently there is a sidewalk on Second Avenue Southwest. I'd have to unplug and just pull up a different mapping platform. So, I'm going to do that really quick. Um, I believe there's already a sidewalk on Second Avenue Southwest on the south side. So, the intent for um you know, future conversations with the land owner is how could we tie in that south sidewalk? I'm going to plug that in for you. >> We have had not even there is a sidewalk >> first avenue. No, there is not a sidewalk for First Avenue and no no intended connection through the development site on First Avenue. The southern portion that we were talking about and staff has respectfully requested the city don't um necessarily improve right now is because we would like to connect the sidewalk here with the hardwood creek trail with the potential of some sort of improvement in this area. to kind of really bring those residential neighborhoods having that kind of feature piece right there to connect then to that Hardware Creek Trail. >> Yeah. >> Um those are things again because we can't request parkland, we can't request parkland dedication as part of this development. These are good faith conversations we want to continue to have with the developer, the land owner as they look at um final buildout of the site. Again, if if we are relaxing our standards, the intention of a PUD and allowing that relaxation is that the city receives in return. I was going to ask you one thing, Abby, before you pull that on on >> Go back to the map. >> Yeah. On 207 there, the property adjacent, that's owned by the city, correct? Yeah, the city owns this piece. >> Yeah, >> we have public rightway of the, you know, former Second Avenue Southwest and then um the underlying land owner owns this piece. So, we we've got quite a bit of just land access challenges through here. Also, this is the only access into 207's garage. So, we've got some um challenges just with preserving this access in here for the adjacent land owners as well as um to help uh not further impact the area in negative ways. >> Eddie, >> uh Abby, can you scroll up on this map just a little bit? So, is there parking along Third Street? >> There is parking along Third Street. >> Yep. Public parking on the public street. >> And then Centennial, there's no parking on that. Correct. >> There is no C um parking on Centennial. And just fun fact for the commission and for new members, members of the public, the city's um does acknowledge that in downtown areas, parking can be a challenge and utilizing land area for parking can be a challenge. Properties east of Centennial Avenue, non-residential uses east of Centennial Avenue are not required to have any parking put in. So, this is the first property um outside of kind of that downtown area where parking is not required. It's a little loophole in the code. Susan, >> Kodiak's got got parking. >> They probably put it in because they recognize that they wouldn't have business without it. >> Well, and and the you know, the attorneys got >> Yes. They're not obligated. They're not don't have parking requirements. >> All right. I'm sorry. I I I misunderstood what you're saying. >> So just they've all got parking. >> Just one block to the east. If this was one block to the east, um we wouldn't get the opportunity to even be looking at their parking. >> The reason I I brought that up is just to say that there is a little bit of flex off of the immediate property of >> Yes, correct. There is public infrastructure around to help support them. Uh, and then as I'm looking through the motion you want us to make, it implies that everything is correct and ready to go, but I'm hearing that there might need to be an amendment to that to allow for that second street southern tip. >> Um, I think if that's something that the commission would want, staff wouldn't recommend right now that we include that unless it is um some sort of continue to discuss in good faith alternatives through there. Um that's up to this commission to make that recommendation. >> So then the second thing earlier you had mentioned about maybe not requiring the landscaping along that eastern edge leading up to that area. Is that something we should accommodate in language tonight or can staff handle that later? >> Um I think staff could handle that later because we do ask for submitt of a landscape plan. Am I looking at I wasn't looking at the right one. Um I thought we had said that we would work through the landscaping >> number six. >> Thank you. Development to work with city staff to revise the landscape plan to reduce storm uh to reduce storm water pond access. So that could be amended um and to address southern tip landscaping, southern site landscaping. The one thing I would um since you're asking though about potential conditions of approval and amendments, staff would recommend a 13th condition at the minimum that at the time of building per permit submitt, the developer shall submit a lighting plan which conforms to city standards which does address cutting off at the property line. >> So we should add a 13 for lighting but nothing else. um and potentially that amendment for number six of the landscaping along that southern access and then whether or not this commission would like to recommend a 14th regarding that southern access. those staff would um continue to recommend. We would really not like to bind that area to any specific development pattern at the moment because we think that there are opportunities to continue to work through that design there. I think >> number six >> 14 should be to review the parking and show some proof of additional parking. It doesn't bind up the southern portion but it requires them to look at the parking. So at least the discussion that I'm hearing would be if the commission was favorable to motion of approval with amendment to condition number six to address the southern ants access landscaping. Condition 13 added that at the time of building permit submitt developer shall submit lighting plan to conform to city standards. And then a 14th condition that prior to uh permit release uh the developer shall provide proof of parking or shall review parking and show additional proof of parking areas. Mr. Chair, I'm what I'm sort of playing with here on six is and it shouldn't be the development. It should be the developer shall work with city staff to revise the landscape plans plural to reduce storm water pond access and allow flexibility on the southern portion of the site for for subsequent um development and potential parking. Perfect. >> And that Abby lets you deal with what you were after on the southern side. >> Yep. I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Commissioner Xander comments and concern with the conditions etc. hearing none. The chair is looking for a motion and if just to remind you that we are recommending to city council here and that's all on page 61 to help you out as they say. Hearing no one. I'll recommend I'll make a motion to recommend the planning commission recommend conditional approval of the final site plan and plan unit development preliminary and final request based on conformance with the applicable code requirements and criteria for approval with the following conditions. And there are 14 conditions with condition six modified and an addition of 13 for lighting and 14 for proof of parking >> as discussed by the commission. >> As discussed by the commission. >> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor favor signify by saying I. >> I. Opposed abstensions. Motion carries unanimously. Good luck with your project. >> Thank you. >> Can I just ask who made the first motion? Paul did. And the second was Commissioner Stender. >> Yes. >> We'll move to uh item eight, public works buildings. >> I think that was just a carryover from the last meeting. I think we forgot to strike it because if I remember right, Commissioner Hyman um was uh I don't know, raised his hand, >> nominated >> nominated. I'm not sure how that happened, but he >> told >> um and could you report to us on your activity? >> It's on a need to know basis and you don't need to know. >> Oh, >> as of right now, the committee still has not met. No, no action has been taken. Then we'll move to item B, commissioner appointment term. >> We're getting close to um so every year new our terms are up. um they're up the end of January for all planning commissioner, not all planning commissioners, but we want to usually try to bring light to this a few months before to make sure that we if there's people that are no longer interested in serving, we identify that early and we try to start finding volunteers um to serve on our boards and commissions. So um Commissioner Hyman replaced now Council Member Larson's term. So, your term will be up January 31st of 2026 and Chair Gerard's term is up January uh 31, 2026. Um Paul and I have talked. He has indicated he's willing to continue to serve. Do you like how I did that? Paul >> just did it right on the record. >> Now, he might say otherwise. Um, Commissioner Hyman, if you um, reach out to me or Paul just to chat about it. Um, and then we can always talk at the next meeting if there's going to be vacancies, friends, neighbors, that sort of thing. Um, but we have a little bit of time. But the idea is try to get this in front of the commission early. Um because some of you were sitting for a while when we had some of those vacancies and having our quorums and all of those sorts of things just get a little bit trickier as our number reduces down from seven. That was not easy for me to say. >> But it was really nice to have a full commission tonight. >> It was great. Thank you all for your service. I really appreciate all of you being here. And I know that might not sound sincere, but I really do. It's really difficult to do this when we're have vacancies and um holes in commissions and people not showing up and all that stuff. So, thank you all for your service. >> All right, we'll move to uh our updates. We'll start with the honorable council person Larson. >> Pardon my limping and gimping. My back's a little sore here from vacation. Wasn't kind to me. Uh, good evening, Mr. Chairman and commissioners. Um, I would also like to echo our sincere appreciation for all of your time serving on our boards and commissions, taking time out of your day, uh, and making some difficult decisions sometime for things. So, uh, we greatly appreciate your time and due diligence. Um the other part of the deal here is uh tomorrow we're having a barbecue as you probably all maybe hopefully heard uh from 4 to 6 at Lakeside Park. We're going to be grilling some hamburgers and some bars and having some chips and water and hopefully all you can make it. We look forward to seeing you. Other commissions are all coming as well hopefully and we'll have a good turnout. you may get to meet some of your other constituents and share some stories and some camaraderie with all of us. Uh so look forward to hopefully seeing you there tomorrow from 4 to 6. >> Spouse spouse is welcome. >> Your spouse is welcome. Please come and enjoy share some time with other members and and their spouses as well. So, um, as far as other business, uh, kind of light on things right now, but, uh, I'll be happy to try to answer any questions that you might have. >> Budget >> 126, that's where it's sitting. We won't go up. We can go down, but, uh, it's not saying it's staying there. We're going to work hard as as, uh, we can. It's not easy. It's, as most of you know, it's definitely not easy. Um, and like it was said, it was brought up during our meeting before is we live here, too. We have to we and we feel the grind, too. But, uh, we're doing the best we can with what we have and uh, to make it work for everybody. >> Public works. >> Public works is a big deal. Probably the >> sort of Where are you in that? >> Well, It's still at at the mark at uh the 50 million mark, but there's going to be there's things that need to be worked out with that. And it's a continually a process that we're looking at working on things and stuff like that. There's a lot of asks and there's a lot of needs and there's a lot of wants and stuff like that. So, uh things need to be worked through. So, um Mr. Adams is a very uh frugal person as well. He doesn't ask for stuff unless it's needed. And uh as you know, some of the buildings that they've had to put up with for quite some time are in pretty disarray and are very disappointed to say myself. When I went and walked through some of their facilities is shameful. um you know, we we really can't have any female staff and quite frankly um in most public works organizations. Um that has been a a boost to the organization. Um you know, public works are the folks that nobody cares about and nobody notices until you flush and nothing happens. The water doesn't come on. you're complaining about the streets and and potholes. Um, and quite frankly, nothing in this city happens unless public works is on their game. >> Correct. We owe a a great uh a great uh wealth to those folks that are doing the job out there for us. And like I say, Mr. Adams has done a phenomenal job. And uh a note was passed on by the city administrator to us that a citizen said that he had dealings with Mr. Adams particularly and he said he says you couldn't find a better person and more caring person. He's a very strong asset to the community. You should be proud of him and we are. >> I got to say I had had a very pleasant experience with public works. I live in a town home over by off of 200 Street kind of over by the Leelas school and there's an area there where when I first moved in in 21 they were just mowing it down and it's been about three and a half years and the guy told me every three years they mow it down and it was going on four years that they hadn't mowed it and I called public works just said hey you guys going to mow this and he goes we'll get to it later in September or October and two weeks later they came out and mowed it. So I >> Perfect. >> That's a very positive for me for for uh my experience with public works. >> Yeah. And we started a they call it an acronym of CHIP which is uh where people can call if there's a street light out or a concern or something like that call city hall and it'll get forwarded to the proper division or department and uh get looked into to get the matter taken care of. So we invite the community to be involved in with our town as well. So, we appreciate each and every one of you and our community members as well. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you kindly for your time tonight. Hopefully, we'll see you all tomorrow. >> All righty. >> Thank you, >> Abby. Any updates? >> Uh, no, sir. Well, I will just uh you do have a second meeting in October and then plan for meeting in November for sure. It's a reminder for long-standing commissioners, new commissioners, we go down to one meeting in November, one in December, just that first meeting that you would normally have of the month. So, um, the next two meetings we have agendas. Any questions for Abby? Stephen, anything to add this evening? >> No, this has been a great conversation. I like hearing all the the the great points on all the parking and all that good stuff. Fun to be a part of the machine. >> Any questions for the new guy. >> Good job. >> This is the coldest day I've experienced in like six years. So, I have a lot in front of me. >> You got a lot in front of you. >> All right. >> Wait a minute. Are you responsible for that 90 degree day that we had? >> No, but my parents were here. They were responsible. They came here from Florida. Yes. They were solely responsible for it. And they're Packers fans, so they deserve all the blame. >> All the blame. Okay, Andy, anything to add? Tim, >> no. >> Susan, >> nope. >> Don, n >> Jesse, >> nope. >> Martin, >> I have nothing there. Thank you all for your service, but the chair is looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> I have a motion. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Have a motion and a second. It's a non-debatable motion. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Opposed. Abstensions. Motion carries unanimously. Hopefully, we'll see you all tomorrow. [Music]