[Music] we are right at 7 o'clock so call tonight city council meeting to order and Jolene can we have a roll call please council member Ericson here council member husnik here council member valento is absent this evening council member Roberts here mayor Bane here I'd like to invite everyone to rise and join us with the Pledge of Allegiance flag of the United States of America and to the rep stands na indivisible andice for all members of council we have an agenda before you this evening I will entertain a motion to approve or any changes motion to approve second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I I oppose and our agenda is approved our next item this evening is open Forum open forum is any interested parties opportunity to address Council on any topic of your CH choosing you're interested in in open Forum this evening there is a signup sheet there was a signup sheet I'll also pause for names if there's anyone else that would like to speak oh that's all right good all right first for open Forum this evening uh Eugene hell good evening good evening thank you um Eugene hell 10234 204 Street North Force Lake and I'm here to talk about the pickle ball courts um we uh really appreciate that they got resurfaced in that and and uh got new paint and whatever but we're kind of wondering the pickle ball Association and the members are are wondering what just what kind of job it is or was done and there seems to be some issues and especially with the rain that's part of it most of it but it started bubbling up and and then would peel off because it could never adhere to the cement but so we thought this would be great if they could get out the contractor would eventually get out and do it and it did take a while because it just kept raining and raining and we finally got some dry days and he came out or his crew came out and they started shaving or peeling off the areas that had puddled up and they put an epoxy on there and then they smooth it was smooth out and they did also um U well I should say sand it and stuff after it hardened it was a hard epoxy and at one time they came out and fixed a few of them but now they came out for a whole day and they were going to close the courts and stuff and so we were going to be off the courts which to make sure that it would dry and and prepare get prepared correctly well they did finally get it shaved and and then they put some on it's still a little dip and it's still rough and maybe a little bit of an indentation in that but they took and they painted with a brush and I happened to be there because we had some issues with a box and it was 8:30 qu to 9 and they came at that time they had shaved it off and done different things to it and they came and it was almost dark so and the guy what he did was he took a brush and instead it's it's really supposed to be seal coated that's what the rubber it's a it's probably I don't know how thick it is but the whole uh court all the court should be like a if you took your driveway and you started putting the tar down or you know and it seals it and and there's no pores and whatever well we're finding out that there's all kinds of little pores in it little tiny holes and then there's hairline cracks going through and I did talk to one of the guys that was there and he was real rude which whatever he he said you go to the city and you talk to the city and now I said I just have some questions if you could because you're the contractor you're the workers what is it can you tell me if these little hairline cracks that are going everywhere that we thought were supposed to be fixed and maybe not happening again at least for a little while that they're they're are they how deep are they and he just go talk to the city but then there was another guy there and he was a little bit better so anyway uh I don't know those answers but I think we got to have to find out we appreciate it you spent $188,000 on those courts and I hope that we wouldn't have to go back in three years and then resurface again that that that's to me that's not acceptable um I think they should have rolled those areas instead of painting a brush and I don't even know if the guy mixed the paint that well because it it looks really it's off color it's supposed to be the same color or at least close but I know it does fade in the Sun and stuff and absorb that those rays but anyway and that's kind of what we're we we just want the best for the city we want the best we accept or want a job that's well done and that's that's what I have to say so thank you thank you next on open Forum Don chip uh my name is Donald EIP Wyoming Minnesota my wife and I own and operate a hanger at the Forest Lake Airport the Forest Lake the city of forest lake has violated every Hangar owner's contract at the airport by sending us bills for the runway Paving project which occurred in 2016 the runway was paved the city sent us bills for the paving project and claimed that the charges were rent it was not rent the charges were a contract violation ground lease contract we pay rent per square foot for the land that is leased page three paragraph one threats toward me I didn't pay the extra charges and the city threatened to declare my contract to be in default they threatened to kick me off the airport for something that I didn't owe I requested a meeting with Aaron Parish who was the city administrator at the time Aaron Parish told me the following I'm quoting I know that there is no language in your contract to charge you for a Runway Paving project the city council wanted it the airport commission passed it I had a council meeting in about 90 minutes the best thing I could come up with was to call it rent he later denied making those comments in front of the entire city council a official notice the city of forest lake has been notified many times about the contract violation but fails to make full restitution for the overcharges 2020 Sam husnik informed me that he was going to have a meeting with Patrick Casey mayor Mara Bane and Dan unham in an attempt to resolve the issue what stemmed from that meeting was the following the annual charges would cease but those that haven't yet paid still owe that was not right Sam has absolutely no authority to negotiate any terms that are outside of pre-existing contracts I continue to advise the airport commission and the city council payment by Sam husnik in 2020 I was informed that most of my outstanding bill had been paid after making two data requests with the city of Forest Lake I learned that Sam husting construction had paid for most but not all of my bill I have tried repeatedly to reconcile my differences with Sam husnik privately but he continues to misrepresent proper public policy recommendations audit the payment records of every Hangar owner repay those Hangar owners who were overcharged there is over $200,000 in the airport fund because the airport generates positive cash flow and mindon Aeronautics keeps giving the city vast sums of money to operate the airport by the way men receives absolutely no taxpayer money all of mot's money comes from aircraft operations Pilots pay on every side I will send you all of my source documents I will also send them to the uh Forest Lake times thank you thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak in open Forum this evening Jolan is there anybody online for open Forum the one at 10d online isn't indicating to speak at this time okay we will close open forum and bring agenda back to council Council for your consideration tonight is consent agenda items 6A through 6G is there a motion or any changes Madame mayor i' make a motion to move 6B off the consent agenda and approve items six A and C through G there's a motion is there a second oh second we have a motion in a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and and consent agenda is approved move to the regular agenda uh Madame we pull 6B right yes we so I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes from the August 26 Council here there's a motion is there a second for item 6B the minutes from August 26 second we have a motion and a second all those in favor signal by saying I I I oppose one abstention motion carries okay moving to our regular agenda we have item 7A consideration of um resolution 92401 State Appropriations for city of Forest Lake NextGen Headwaters storm water flood control and park planning project I'm Christina hi mayor and Council it's nice to see your faces I do miss that from me down here um so we're here tonight as you all know in 2023 the city was successful in getting bonding dollars um from the state in order to do the what was referred to as the nextg Headwater storm water flood control and Park planning project um the requested funding came after the judicial ditch 4 um study was done and approved by both the city and the Rice Creek Watershed back in 2021 um as Forest Lake continues to transition to this emerging Suburban Edge Community there's this greater focus on doing some Regional storm water ponding um in the southwest corner of the city and so in order to move forward sorry um in order to move forward with getting the grant funding the city needs to pass a resolution and provide some more materials to the state they'll take the information that's approved tonight and then put together the grant agreement that they'll send back to us um we have started working on the project with our Consultants at Bolton and mink and Kowski Consultants um the direction from the state that was that we were able to expend funds um from the date that it was approved by the state so included in your packet um is the resolution the DNR warned me they're very picky that if we were to change anything maybe other than the name or the dollar amount which you wouldn't change um that we should have it have it run by them so if you do have any questions we can um talk through that but that was a a caution that I got from um from the DNR on this uh other items that they needed included the general project plan so that was something that had language that had been used to describe the project during the bonding it just kind of updated it uh legal description or what we actually included was maps of the three areas that we're hoping to acquire um the budget and a schedule so we're required to get the grants funds encumbered or the grant before the end of 2027 um we have more time to expend it but the hope is that we could have this project done in the next three years so that's what we've we've included in your packet um at this point there's no matching funds required for this project if something were to happen we would go over a budget um we would obviously come back to council and have a conversation about that we're expecting to have willing land sellers at this point there's no talk of eminent domain again obviously if if we um but up against that that'll be a city council decision um with that I think I will just stand for any questions that Council has otherwise we're looking for approval of resolution 92401 thank you Christina Council questions you may have either on resolution or project [Music] overall I was only question I had is when I was looking at those Maps trying to kind of piece together where that land is at is there is that a continuous stretch or nope um it's kind of phased so starting just below like Headwaters Parkway area and then going south Christina you mentioned land acquisition um how so just from a timing perspective of where in the project plan um how does where in the project does that timing come into place around you know targets for land acquisition strategies for that um you mentioned a couple of different options and those would certainly be Council decisions um when do you expect us to be at that point in the project of having had some conversations and needing to make those decisions by from a council perspective um for a from a council perspective it probably be quite some time because again I think we're going to try and work with our we know we we've had one land owner that has reached out to us and is interested uh maybe another who's not and you know that that will we'll see how that goes but our our team met um just before I went on vacation and I talked with Carl last week and he plans to put together another meeting he's been meeting with the Bolton and mink folks so we will probably be doing a lot of this stuff behind the scen until we um either get an agreement uh in which case you'd have to you know approve the purchase of the property um or if we run into some roadblocks and we need to strategize but Our intention right now is to work with willing land sellers perfect and how soon does that start like does that the the considerations of those parcels and those conversations I guess what I'm trying to get at is that happened fairly early in the project and so there's to me there's not much else to do so again I don't know you know we've we've hired uh Carl Kowski to kind of project manage this for us so I don't know those level of details and I think that's what we'll be meeting about at our next um team meeting but uh you know there's there's no construction in this project so it's land acquisition and then it's just design so once we know what land we're able to acquire then um it's a relatively easy handoff to bolon make to do the design I think it's one of those topics that Council will benefit from updates early and kind of understanding like is this a easy path or are there some more challenging components of the project um and so I would appreciate having that kind of mapped out early as part of the early part of the project plan yeah I mean conversations will start this fall I would anticipate so we'll keep you updated on how those go um so trying to read this maybe it was in the packet but is is most this land already delineated Wetlands or this is this high and dry land we put a moratorium on doing this ourselves um for other property owners to be able to sell for banking Wetland Banking and so is most of this wet um I can't answer that I mean it's along judicial ditch four for the most part so whatever had kind of been been in that area I don't know if Ryan has any information or other folks non developable or something uh there's there is probably some of this area that's developed this is the low area in the drainage area of that particular part of the land and that's why it's broken into the parcels it is because then you would be able to achieve the volume and that you would need to get to that area to provide for regional storm water treatments if it were to provide for developments or other site improvements in that area so that's why it's broken and following the alignment that it currently is because that's where the the volumes eventually would go and that make the most sense to in areas to build future storm water uh facilities um because you'd be moving the less amount of dirt typically you're going to build High drainage just going to flow downhill right so and then but this is before my time I assume but there must have been a study like that determined what per acre the fee is to to come up that 5.7 million or how did that dollar amount come previous staff came up with that number is the best that we can find out um so and you know this was back in 2021 so we've had a few years pass I think we'll have to approach this with you know what we think the fair market value is today yeah Al um just a context on you know Regional so the alternative to this is individual property storm water management right and so appreciate your point on is there some of this developable land that may be but also some of this would be developable land that in absence of this project would still have to have some level of storm water management so it's going somewhere I think the strategy is let's have a common place rather than each parcel as it develops having to do its own at a point when we're much earlier in development we've certainly acknowledge we've you know challenges on Northshore of doing this after the fact and so that's part of the reason why let's do this before those Parcels develop yeah I mean this is intended to really be helpful to development because this will take that burden off on an individual project basis to deal with their storm water runoff if they'll be able to use most of it in these Regional ponds any other questions make a motion ready for a motion I'll make a motion to approve resolution 99 2401 for State Appropriations for Forest Lake NextGen head Headwater storm water flood control and park planning is a motion is there a second a second we have a motion I'll take a second from council member Roberts any further discussion on this topic hearing none all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and motion carries our next item this evening um consideration of the crop restriction line map update for the Forest Lake airport and Christina this is you as well yep and our computer just decided to restart so if you need to reference the maps they should be in your packet this is an item that the airport commission um reviewed last month back in 2018 silus had put together um a map which was referred to as the crop restriction line uh when a former council member had asked him what the requirements were for maintenance out at the airport mot does have some guidance um those the agricultural operation guidelines for Minnesota airports that's published by mot and a copy of that's included in your packet using those guidelines um he drew the map from 2018 that you see in there now that we've done some more um work out at the airport at a taxi Lane and and uh apron expansion we redrew those lines to Encompass those new areas um our Public Works folks have been using this map also you know to help folks understand where they intend to do um the mowing out there so there is a little bit of difference between a crop restriction line map and a mowing map the airport commission felt like we could apply some common sense that if there's a storm water Pond within the lines that show that it's going to be mowed we're obviously not going to mow a storm water Pond it has to function um in order to treat runoff and whatnot so we didn't get that de level of detail um didn't feel it was necessary uh but the airport commission is recommending that the council approve the updated July 2024 crop restriction line map thank you Christina Council open it up for discussion or questions I have a question I I brought this to staff's attention and questioning whether or not the former dhy deponti home was still airport property which it turns out it is and then I was told uh learn later that at some point the airport commission and council at the time decided not to maintain that I don't know if any of you have driven by there it looks like an abandoned house um I don't know if this is related to this and how much the Mowing and if it's a separate issue but we're starting to hold our uh residents to a higher level on Code Enforcement and um long mowing the lawn and the rest of that and it's just it's not a good optic to ourselves not be doing the same thing and so if this is something that needs to be added to this because it was I guess removed at one point by the commission again maybe two separate issues I don't know yeah I'll have to defer to to director Adams for sure but I don't think it was ever in this map my understanding of the history is that the city council decided to use staff resources to mow along Trails more and and given the resource that we have and the amount of of mowing um they gave up mowing this uh the deponti home correct me if I'm remembering that wrong Dave yeah we used to M out there probably two or three full days just to mow everything out there we would mow from Forest Road all the way to Highway 97 every blade of grass out there got mowed so with the airport commission and and staff they figured it was probably a little bit better served for us not to be out there for 3 days when some parks weren't getting mowed every 10 to 14 days so it adjusted that way we got down to about a point where we can be in an other in a day with two guys mowing is there a portion of that parcel that um if you think about our code enforcement um guidelines it's kind of like what's in what's what's visible from the street and what's visible from the public is there somewhere between what's visible from the public and Dave what you described that was a like a maybe a a broader footprint that might make sense that isn't the entire thing or is it all of it quite honestly the the grass doesn't look bad it's the house that looks bad you should take the house down not mow the grass fa it's all everything else is long grass around it it's the house that's looks bad there's that house and there's a another side house that were originally going to be taken down when the the runway was paved and I think it was too much money there was tons of asbestos in there and it drove the price up to demolish that Sam you or council member hus there a bunch of buildings that men help us take down because they were in the rpz that building was not so they wouldn't they wouldn't help us pay for it and there is no long-term plan for taking that building down or right that's and I to coun member hus Nick pointed that's why they didn't pay or it would have been a city a full City cost to take that that building down and that side building but I I mean really it's it's not the mo the rest every all other grass around it all the way from there to 97 is the same height of grass it's just the I would think the farmer would want to cut some of that too maybe make hay out of it they have in the past I don't know there's the old belt or the the Fenway lights are laying in a pile out there and it's just there's a lot of junk out there that didn't need to get a hole out of there that that was never meant to be there so maybe this is the next agenda item council member Robert budgeting for this we're trying to be better at code enforcement and clean up our have our residents and businesses clean up and we've got junk on our own property that that's a problem my opinion that's a problem and I don't think asking to mow it once or twice a year I'm not saying to make it look like a golf course or anything but just in some brush tall brush that's around that building it it doesn't seem like it would take a whole lot to at least make an effort we're not even making an effort at this point we don't need a deferred maintenance list or project list that's longer but the longterm that you know home at some point starts to become a big liability so having that on radar and some sort of a plan long term sounds like also needs to be on a list agreed but I don't think it relates to this map stuff before you tonight but I I would again maybe the budget stuff next or depending upon when you would want to slate into the CIP to have it be removed I would agree it doesn't necessarily have to be tied with tied with tonight's agenda item anyone any other comments or anyone ready for a motion on this item I would move that we Council approve the crop restriction line map update uh for the force Lake Airport as presented by um inter room administrator H is there a second I'll second have a motion in a second any follow-up discussion hearing none all those in favor sign now by saying I I oppose n one no and motion carries that ends our regular agenda this evening we are going to move into a couple of Workshop topics just a quick note um for those in attendance or watching that um for this item um this uh we're going to move into a workshop area or Workshop section which is more informal um anything that we talk about this evening that requires official action um will come back in a regular meeting um I will note both of our um discussion items this evening are related to our budget and would point to the preliminary Levy vote that we will make here at our um next regular agenda meeting to set the preliminary Levy um as required by law um anything related to the budget will then also be considered for a final Levy vote um in December and with that we'll turn it over to Kevin thank thank you mayor and U City Council um got a couple items on discussion topic tonight relating to the budget uh we're going to break it into two parts one follow up on the general fund budget from our workshop on August 19th um we'll pause after kind of that discussion um answer any questions you have there and then move on to our utilities uh budget from there so at our August 19th budget Workshop there are uh four specific items that city council asked for followup on um one being more description on the 250,000 contingency budget line item uh an updated 202 for 2024 projected general fund fund balance um a list of um budget line items as city the city can't control the increase or decrease in costs and then also some more details on the 202 2025 proposed Park um Improvement projects so with that we're start with the contingency line item budget uh the purpose of this budget line item is to maintain fund balance in the general fund at 50% and this is per City policy the purpose of that policy to maintain the 50% is that the CATE does not receive their first half property tax um settlement until late June or early July so as the city has been approving budgets and their balanced budget is projected that the city's fund balance will not increase based on revenues and expenditures um balancing each other out however as expenses increase year after year and we're projecting that fund balance will not increase that percentage of fund balance as it relates to those expenditures decreases therefore we need to make sure that we have enough fund our maintaining our fund balance so next couple slides we'll go into a couple examples that hopefully bring to CL Clarity what that line items purpose really is so on this side SL and also including your in your packet uh the 2025 um plinary budget includes a 250,000 of that contingency line item as well as 500,000 for 2026 and 2027 this is consistent which was which was presented to City Council in the financial management plan by ERS back in July also factor into 2024 ending fund balance we are projecting that fund balance will increase in 2024 by about 426,000 so that is factored into this projection so as you can see the bottom line where the percentage of the following Year's budget uh the percentage is right at 50% 2025 is a little bit under but you can see that we are projected to be maintaining really right at that 50% fund balance this next slide shows what happens if that contingency line item of 250,000 is removed from 2025 all factors the same as what as the first slide that is the only change in this slide in 2025 you can see from 2024 to 2025 the projected fund balance is not projected to increase it stays at the 6.6 million so you can see then we dipped down the 47.8% and then slowly increased back up to almost 49 and then 49% and in 2027 so not quite meaning that 50% fund balance policy that the city has as to C did did just go through a rating call with issuing the equipment certificates and it's important to note that um it is our policy to maintain that at 50% and this is just that Illustrated purpose of why that contingency line item budget is in there that there is a purpose for it that is not just um some fund set aside for any special project so then where do we come up with that 426,000 estimate of where fund balance is going to increase so taking a look at where we are at for 2024 and revenues compared to where we estimate to be we're estimating that revenues will be over budget by about $85,000 on the two things to point out on on this slide is the property taxes you can see that is about 100,000 less and what was budgeted that is because the city historically receives almost 99% of what is levied so that is reflected in that line item the main difference making up that um increase is in uh building permits as is due to conservative budgeting we're not necessarily sure what's always going to come in in a given year but that is trending that that will come in over budget therefore making up most of the reason for being uh over budget on the flip side we take a look at expenditures where we're at current year to date and where we think we're going to end up uh year uh at the end of the year we are projecting that we're going to be about 340,000 under budget a large reason for this is due to um wages and benefits there were some positions in the 2024 budget that have not been filled uh specifically the um assistant um City administrator position was in the 2024 budget as well as an HR managers in the 2024 budget has not been filled and also the city has experienced uh quite a few vacancies at some point in 2024 therefore creating U most of that reason for coming in under budget uh the next part about is um some costs that the say doesn't have real control over when it comes to budgeting some examples include Insurance costs uh computer support electric utilities fuel repairs and maintenance some of these things the city really cannot control meaning what's the price of fuel going to do what's the price of electric utilities going to happen where are those going to end up um based on where we are where we are at in 2024 and where we're at in 2025 there is not much significant variance in these costs from where they were in 2024 so there wasn't really anything specifically to call out here there are some small inflationary increases but nothing um uh significant that's playing into that general fund property tax um increase next we move on to park improvements the first uh project is uh mayor Park it's scheduled for some improvements um as you can see here there's um a lot of different things going on here including removing the playground and replacing swing sets and slides and things of that nature um making the playground Ada accessible removing some of the borders and resurfacing uh the park this next slide this shows as well as in your packet this the pictures of the current state of the park um if you zoom in a little bit they're a little bit larger in your packet uh you can see that the equipment is pretty outdated and pretty worn down um and due for uh replacement the next item is cool and Camp Park uh most of this this is re related to the fields and doing some improvements around the ball fields out there it is uh redoing some of the Dugout uh areas on the fields adding a new storage shed you know grading and doing some filling spots to get the fields into better plane conditions and also is adding some Pathways from the fields to the parking lot this slide this is the current pictures of the current state of the park and how the dugouts look and how the there's no fencing um around the field except for right there behind home plate and uh the dugouts uh this is shows us something like what it might look like a fence in Dugout area cover cover dugouts as well as some longer fencing down the fall lines of the baseball field the last one is some um improvements out out at Castlewood Golf Course um one thing is is expanding the green on whole five this it increases the playability and maintenance of that green um also there are some drain tiles there's some drainage areas out at the golf course um at some different locations that need to be installed to help with that drainage and then also some teabox expansions um on on a hole and creating the women's team so with that uh that's the information uh that I had prepared for you tonight there's some more details in your packet that I'd be happy to answer if you have any questions on that or what uh we just went just went over thank you Kevin Council open it up for questions or additional discussion related to the general fund budget well I'll start with the contingency fund um Kevin and I had an opportunity to have have a conversation about that this afternoon which I found very very helpful Kevin I appreciate that taking the time to paint that picture a little bit better and you that's driven in part by our current policy that we be at 50% of next year's budget um which you know we need to have that Reserve I think if we're going to include that at the end of the day or when the time comes that we include that whether it be this year or future future year we need I would encourage this Council to create a better policy so that in when there are times where maybe um revenues are higher or expenses are lower we see that fund balance increase that there's actually a place where that money goes that can then decrease future years levies whether we transfer that to Capital Improvement or to Parks or some other project so it doesn't just sit there um I know just in my short time in this Council there's been a number of conversations about well can we fund that from fund balance and so my concern and you know I called out at our last meeting and one of the members of the public did and referred to it as a slush fund and I don't see that as something that the staff would do but it would be a future councel they would be like yeah we've got this extra quote unquote money let's use it and so if we're going to include this I would like to see a policy written such a way that there's Direction given to future councils of how that fund balance is used um the other thing I'd put out there for this council's consideration is that we review our policy of 50% there's a lot of things that we're trying to take on as a city to fund things like Parks like right staff we took on roads last year by withholding this 250 this year it's a two-point difference to the levy it takes us from mid 13 to mid1 and we know that we can get by another year without it just based on what Kevin's projections are and I would argue we could probably get by for two years without including it if we change our policy to some number less than 50% I mean what's recommended is anywhere from 35 to 50 we don't have to be at 50 so knowing or hoping that we review this policy anyway to at least maybe give some more clarity to what's it's used for I would also to submit for consideration that we consider a lower number to push out the need for this fund for another cycle or two um so I appreciate the comments and um I just have to say um I've been on Council for eight years and not having to have a fund balanc conversation has been one of the positive parts of um just a benefit that we've had of being very well fiscally managed I appreciate that having that 50% level um is a strain but I wouldn't especially in years of growing when we're trying to catch up on deferred maintenance like I I hear that pain I just wouldn't want to be on Council and having to have a a different conversation should we bring that number less and we've done um there's things I think all of us would argue that maybe haven't done what you know we haven't caught up kept up on deferred maintenance and there's some things that we all wish maybe would have done been done differently over the years um but having that strong fund balance and having the benefit of the rating agency's positive reflection on that I just I don't think I could get behind not having that number be at 50% um especially because we know that the revenue our you know the our Revenue timing is limited and there's times we from an operations perspective need to dip into that um um it it's yes it's a strain to catch up on defer maintenance it's a strain to do these things that we've been trying to catch up on but I wouldn't want to be sitting in this seat having to make a tough call um because there there these are projections and we know that projections are sometimes favorable and we try to be conservative in those but there's also times where that just isn't the case um and so that's my perspective but I I do also recognize it's it's a challenge and um I I you know and if the if the motivation is there's other things we need to catch up on we have been doing a lot of catchup and maybe some of those things we can wait a little bit longer and to just not have I I I don't want us to give up that Financial Security for that catchup just my perspective I just know that the people I've been talking to lately especially that 133% is not very palatable this year so if there's some way that we can kind of soften that a little bit uh it's it's going to be good and U maybe there's something from Z to 250,000 that we could figure in there to make this more come out to the right number I don't know but um so mayor city council just remind you so right now the levy is at about a 13.2% increase and that is Citywide for all levies that the city has if you take out 250,000 since that seems to be the number it would reduce it to about 11 and a half% increase for the year and how that would affect the average home value in the city of forest lake would decrease the taxes by about $25 so at the current Levy they would be raised by about $185 it would reduce it to about $160 for the average average home in Forest Lake so it would change it by about $25 the contracts that were about to negotiate to we have what three Union contracts coming up how do you think this could affect this budget what it's an unknown it's unknown we have factors built into there into our budget for uh where those are going to end up we look we do have settled contracts that the city has now so everything will just be uh taken into consideration for um budget needs but right now um I believe we just scheduled the first one in a couple weeks so uh we don't have what those numbers are at now or what their current proposals are but there is some money in this budget to accommodate at least part of it right there is there is money in this budget correct so again um speaking to what needs to come out of this meeting and what we're really looking forward to is as September the next city council meeting on September 23rd where we need to have a resolution approved for what that preliminary Levy is as that needs to be certified to the county by September 30th so again this number can be certified at whatever um dollar amount or percentage increase the city council wants but the council cannot go higher than that amount they can lower it uh so this keep that in mind as you're having these conversations at this point uh for um for your discussions um so a couple thoughts I I appreciate uh councilman Erikson's council member Ericson's thoughts on this and and mayor Bane's thoughts the the opposite side of that um it the 45% I mean what does that number look like does that if you're dropping at 5% for that as far as a fund balance does that how bad of a hit does that take from some of these our bond ratings and that is it substantial is it a little bit I think I think just getting the sense of the council we need to come down from 13.2 I I think that I personally would like to see us happen happen to do that how do we get there is it this is it go to staff and say okay um it sounds like yes that was kind of our high Mark we were comfortable that we'd like to see it down a little bit do we do that now do we wait until after we set that high the level Levy and then try to work that back in in October November and I'm open to thoughts on on either way how to do that but I think we can agree that maybe that the 132 is and we've heard it from residents that that is a bit much at this point I I um so there's a couple of if if the thought is that 13 you know that we need to come down and if the 13.2 is too high we this year have done a substantial increase and we've attempted in multiple years to do a substantial increase to the park dedication fund um perhaps I what I would be and and the number of what that what that fund needs to be at is a projection to you know fund defer maintenance do catch up on that deferred maintenance and it's it's kind of this missing piece to the 10year plan that we've been struggling to bake into our lobby rather than rather than play with a surplus number I would frankly I'd rather see us um keep this keep the Surplus and keep that fund balance Target at 50% keep that funded and make the variable the park dedication fund and so bring that down to a number that's palatable to council and then should we have a positive fund balance to council member Erikson's point positive fund balances could be directed to projects specific to the park dedication fund it could be those those dollars could be directed and that way you have a baseline of sure financial position and the variable is the place that we've been struggling to make some progress anyway and have that variable be to fund the park dedication fund I I just for us to take a less conservative approach it's it's I feel like it's the part of our financial plan that has gone well and we've had the benefit of being able to have those dollars um and again it's it's a contingency fund and so that could be funded to a a project that was specific to the park dedication fund and if the council wanted to look at upcoming projects and to dedicate a project that would be on the bubble maybe not fully funded to me that's a more palatable approach and might achieve both you know both directors I I think we also need to recognize the there's been a lot of catchup that has happened over the last couple of years and so I appreciate we may be in a year where we need to take a pause back off a little bit um but also these projects keep they stay on the list right and so there is if not this year then we come back next year and we're kind of having the same conversation um so but I ju I just if there's a A variation or a a need to come down a bit I would say maybe it comes out of that Park dedication fund and you at least keep fund balance where it is that would be what I would Advocate I'm open to that I I think though maybe a broader look at what instead of just specifically picking on the park balance pun balance across the lineer there's some positions that we as a council are like really really behind uh you know different ways to look at this instead of just saying let's see we cut back on Parks there's that's an option as well so is there Direction tonight for which of those options you would like us to prepare for the September 23rd meeting without direction we just keep bringing back the same stuff so you have to tell us collectively what you'd like to see Council thoughts I I I think we just not speaking for myself but it seems like this the the council would like to see it lower and it seems like there is I could go either way on the contingency fee I uh completely understand uh the mayor's thoughts on this that uh we have worked and previous to to my time on here worked hard to get to get where we're at on that and be conservative there uh so I'm open to keeping that and maybe going down that path of of maybe park or a position that we're really not we may want to push off or I guess that down that route um one of the one of the things that stands out to me as they listen to Kevin's um presentation and to know what has so we are we have a favorable variance this year in which wages and salaries because of open positions and so just given where we are with timing for positions and Staffing and current open positions I guess I would be interested in um staff's perspective on is there is there timing differences that would be expected of for the new positions proposed are those expected and needed for full year I know it's dangerous to think about a midyear to only fund a midyear because we then need to commit in future years to that full salary but from a timing perspective are we looking at that anyway given where we are with hiring some of our open positions is there anything that's obvious that comes to the table just from a timing difference that then might result in some sort of a budget impact that we should consider I don't that's low hanging fruit let's at least consider it U my understanding is that historically the city hasn't been able to fill new positions any earlier than the start of the second quarter um um back when we were singing Kumbaya and I thought we all were on board and of this you know I would have come to you and um in November and asked you to you know be approving job descriptions and advertisements so I would kind of leave that up to to council discretion if you want to continue how we've done it in the past if we need to make sure that it gets approved at dece in December then you're correct mayor you're probably we could probably dial some of those new positions back to not start until the second quarter of 25 but again I I I want to say this so that everybody knows then you're going to see a bigger increase in 25 because then you'll have them funded for that full year so just understand that you're kicking that can down to the next year or to 26 I forget what year we're in um in 26 we'll see a bigger increase because then even with no changes to anything you'll be funding that position for the whole year I I would also so the flip side of this is and how you want to approach budgeting I get that people don't like to have to see in the budget $250 $500,000 for cont agcy but if you are conservative in your budgeting then perhaps you're not going to have to see those numbers so it's a horse a piece right where I'm going with this so you could you could dial back those positions and make it easy now or again if they don't get filled until second or third quarter whatever it's historically been well gosh now you've just helped the fund balance for the next year and so it's really about when you want to make that decision um and how you want to make that decision so I don't think that it's a bad thing I guess to for us to be be budgeting for the full year because as we've seen through this year this is a godsend to have this extra $400 and some thousand do right so and I I mentioned the the midar addition as maybe another alternative to taking a position fully off um I'm I'm in full support of the positions that have been presented that's why if we're looking for reasons to decrease I would look to something that was more of a capital project um but I wanted to throw that as an option on the table if staff or if anybody on Council is considering um a position that we could do a partial year fund again that is committing us to that position at some point it's just a timing difference but as we've seen that can provide a fair amount of budget relief if needed well I know with the fire captain position we're still hoping to get that funded so I mean that's if if that were to come through we would see that out of this next year's budget next three years budget no magical news on that yet I don't think so Chief would be jumping out of his chair I what there was is that we will know by the end of the end of the month is that right has there been anybody in Minnesota that's heard no okay um yeah are other I mean we've got this question of positions are there other positions that folks are kind of on the fence on and would like to have some further consideration of I I I brought up at the first meeting just the concern or the the of the Eda position slash whatever we're calling it now um and that that need so if there's some additional information on justif justifying that I'm I'm open that I just it's concern my I think more information on that one that's probably the one that in my mind was new this year um so just more clearing of the timing on that would be helpful and I think you this is at least the second year that staff has requested this position um if this position would be filled the Community Development Department would have accommodated for the growth since 2014 to 2025 with this one position and so I think anything less than than another position there is keeping them behind the eightball so to speak and so at a very high level I would Advocate that you you know consider keeping that position in and and and all of the positions we we really um there was a lot more requests that came in when we started this conversation and they got slim down to really what we truly feel we need I think if you were to to say that you you don't think you need a position we're going to probably have to have some conversations about which programs we're not able to continue doing you know we we talk about wanting to be more responsive on economic development we know we have issues at the the airports um we those type of things are not going to be able to get done we're not going to be able to get caught up on if we don't get the resources to help us do that yeah I feel really strongly about the staff positions for this next year maybe not the training Captain we'll see what happens with the grant no it's I mean the the the I'll Echo Christina's comments on the Eda position um or the kind of the planning position but also the public safety positions are it it's it's supplement for additional additional staff and you know this I think we've all agreed that the C the CSO officer is really do we hire this CSO officer it's a cost savings from uh you know hiring adding head count on the police side um it's a great pipeline to that program um and then you know we've talked about the need of some additional resources on the fire department and trying to maintain that payon call model that that to me that that makes these Staffing positions really challenging um so so I guess final thought for me on this is I I think if if staff is disappointed in some of this concern or angst or whatever I think especially for staff that's been here a long time 13 or 14% last year 133% that that's not what we've done in Forest Lake and I think we are by taking this back a little bit we're still doing much more than previous councils ever done and what our taxpayers are used to right or wrong um and so I think we staff and if everyone can keep that in mind when we're we're going this we're not a council sitting up here saying nope no increases we don't want any other positions whatever we're we're we're here to support we have been at least this last two years this Council has so I hope staff keeps that in mind when we're maybe seeming like we're negative about something or not wanting a position I just thank you for expressing that um because I agree that's what makes this question challenging that's partly why I repeatedly kind of keep going back to it's the Deferred maintenance that is the the part that we've um recovered a lot on and slowing that a bit and um taking a little extra time on some of those projects maybe is a spot where we have to take a pause and I don't even know what 11% really how much of a pause that is maybe it's slowing it back a little bit but not taking a pause because we're if we're going to spend 500 % more in Parks that's not taking a pause you're right so how much would you like us to take out of the park dedication fund for the September 23rd meeting you know that 250,000 is going to get you down to 11 something percent it's going to save the average homeowner $25 so you can kind of use that as a so so um part of your second part of your presentation here Kevin on the these different parks are those hard numbers are those estimates or where where we at Remind Me Maybe that's uh Dave correct me if I'm wrong but those are what the estimate costs are for those for those projects pretty accurate ones I mean feel comfortable with those numbers I would say they're accurate but there's you know grants and stuff you can apply for that that's uh unknown you know until we're budgeted that that dollar amount I'm not going to chase grants without knowing there's there's money there to to pay for it so and you know I was a bit surprised and maybe I shouldn't have been because you made the point about you're going to do extra but in my mind when we were agreed to do the 100,000 for the veterans memorial I was taking that from the 500 and not adding another 100 so maybe that's one place uh to to start to look at part of that 600 isn't just to fund next year's projects but it's begin to fund that fund balance so I mean if we scale that back we're really just saying all right we can still do Manor Park we can still do cooling camp but following your projects you're going to get cyle farther correct or you'll have to do more bonding rather than paying cash right In fairness and transparency right A couple of years ago this number was zero so it's to your point it is continuing to make some substantial progress from where it has been it's just again that backlog list doesn't get any shorter and so I think what it would help too you know last year what do we we stuck what another $900,000 in the roads it's kind of nice to know exactly how we spent that money and let everybody know how that money was spent and where it went and so um makes it a little bit more palatable that way too so putting a lot of pressure on Ryan here but um maybe a he doesn't worry about where the money comes from just a little short you know explanation at the next meeting or something would be helpful you could just have a figure that would be the easiest for you to have a visual exactly but if we present that to the public then they know where the tax dollars are going and and may I uh maybe it's also not what you spent it on this year but what you plan to spend it on next year too so they understand what that tax next year is going to be for exactly y a visual for both would be good one thing to an mayor and city council too is to say for example you decide to take $100,000 all the Improvement fund we're certifying a total Levy doll we're certifying a total Levy it's not saying at that point you can't shift the levy dollars between funds we just can't go over that that specific dollar amount so I just want you to keep that in mind not to add another um something else to the equation here but if you do once you take it out there's no getting it back so that's where I just want to stress the importance of of this l that that's going to be coming to Council on the on the 23rd I'm a big proponent of transparency though and I wouldn't encourage any correct game plane of moving it around from funds I mean that's why we're trying to spend so much time to really understand what console sees as a as a priority so should we be is it 250 out of parks for the next meeting or am I hearing 100,000 out of parks what is 250 out of parks what does that bring what does that bring our projected Levy down to about 11 a half% as a preliminary number you how's that sit it's a help helpful place to start it is yeah okay so we will reduce the the park dedication there the park funds by 250,000 the next um this is a little a little outside the scope of this but um con M Ericson mentioned um an update of policy and um us specifically having a policy directing how so we do we do say in our policy that if it's over 50% that it goes to a capital fund it's it's not as specific as which capital fund but our policy does say that okay and maybe at a discussion item maybe it's just a review of that policy so that we're all on the same page too but um to your conc ER if I'm understanding it correctly our policy does say that it goes to a capital fund can go to a capital fund can or does can probably has that been done it has not historically been done and that's where it just reviewing that policy and making sure um I view this as part of my year end prep when we're doing the audit once I get the final numbers in looking at what's our fund balance at what percentage of that is um possibly over and then coming to council with we have for examp example 50,000 excess fund balance where should we where would you like that transfer to so it's more memorializing that fund to Christina's point that policy that Christina's point it's in there make it more clear but then also make sure that uh it's getting done I yeah I would I would I just wanted to say I would support that right like us being specific that it um it does go to and make sure we're following that specific to a capital and I would I would say you should just incorporate that into your normal budgeting process so you know correct when you're doing those when you're looking at the next year and you're projecting this year out and then get the direction from Council about which of those Capital funds you want it to go to yeah this fund balance won't be going away it's going to be every year all right any other changes that you want us to make before we bring it back on the 23rd okay thank you move on to our consideration of the utility funds okay so shifting gears into utility funds I got some high level information on this on some PowerPoints here some more detail in your packets like always um so stop me as I go along here this is more or less your first look as the at the utility funds and in whole you have seen some of those Capital Improvement projects and capital um requests come through when we've done um our CIP and long-term capital planning with our new software planet um but this kind of brings all that in in together and then also all the operating aspects of these funds as well so one thing in the utility funds is is a new position request this year is a utility superintendent uh to remind Council in part of the 2024 budget there was a position approved for a storm water technician uh staff has reviewed uh really what the needs of that those departments are as it specifically relates to utilities and it feels like utility superintendent position would be a better fit for the needs of the department also this backing up a little bit that storm wire technician position has not been filled for 2024 so there has been no higher so really this uh utility superintendent position would oversee all the aspects of uh the day-to-day um operations as it relates to water sewer and storm and really taking on more of that leadership role in that department and help um with some of the planning operations and public relations as relates to um water sewer and storm water also included in the budget for the utility funds is 15,000 5,000 in each of the three funds for utility longrange financial management plan uh this would be similar to what you has seen uh for the general fund and our tax levy really bringing that comprehensive look as a 10year out brings in together the operating the capital debt considerations and what those utility rates need to be at uh not in only in the foreseeable future but where they need to be at in the next 5 to 10 years and also include with the information your packet all expenses in these funds are projected to go up 4% uh so similar to last year we started implementing we really wanted to look at what's a Target cash balance for our utility funds so when you identify that minimum Target Target cash balance kind of like the um 50% general fund balance policy is where do we need that cash balance to be so really what we're looking at is we want that balance to be uh 50% of the following Year's operating expenses this includes wages supplies repair maintenance anything to keep operating the day-to-day activities it includes Capital Equipment items that are identified that we want to pay cash for so your equipment like your trucks trailers things of that nature we want to make sure that we have cash on hand to pay for some of those items and that's where it really brings in the 10-year plan really brings that comprehensive look are you paying cash are you going to be issuing debt you know how does that look like to make sure we have cash on hand for when those future Capital needs comes up we also look at the debt payments that are in the fund in the funds and what will be project in the funds and we want that cash balance to be at 100% of the following years's debt payments in principal and interests included so with that if C recalls back in 2024 there were three years worth of utility rates approved for all three funds of water sewer and storm water fees so there uh fees approved for 2024 2025 and 2026 so as currently as approved in the free schedule the water rates are slated to increase 6% in 2025 as long with the surface water management fees are also slated to increase 6% and those are slated right now the increase 6% over the next 10 years the sewer rates are currently approved to be an increase of 3% in 25 over 2024 while M while maintaining that 3% increase over the next 10 years as well these rates are approved they do come to council annually in October November of every year to be approved for them where they can't be changed but right now staff is recommending that those funds that those excuse me those rates stay at what is currently approved in in the fee schedule so that's a high level overview of the utility funds there's a lot more detail that was included in your packet based on each fund be happy to answer any questions that you have as it relates to that thank you Kevin Kevin what would you estimate our just our keeping up with inflation type increase for these funds like what's the outside of our control impact of wages impact of price increases on supplies all of that stuff like what do we have an estimate of what and I'm just trying to there's it there you could have somebody could have a perspective that gosh 6% for the next 10 years sounds like a lot current rate of inflation seems like actually that's that's not a lot so like what is I'm just trying to get out of estimate of our rate increases versus kind of our estimated cost increases for those um so the answer your question so right and all those expenses are projected increase at roughly 4% so that's wages supplies repair maintenance um Dave can um probably answer is a little bit better than me but one of the big outliers like specifically in the water fund is water main braks you don't know when they're going to happen how many they're going to happen how much repairs and maintenance you're really going to have in any given year that you're that you're going to have to that you're going to have to repair so keep in mind even though I'm saying a 4% increase in those expenses and it's a 6% increase in rates that's only an operating if we we have Capital needs on top of that as well as Deb service requirements that we need to cover and make payments on as well these funds do not have any property tax every dollars going into them they are strictly funded with um user fees as are charged their residents that use this service so there's a different a little bit correlation there so that's where we look at what are those rates need to be at to hit that Target cash balance they're reviewed annually to see where they're at will they be adjust in in the future yes because as we said before we look at our long-term plans you look at all this annually to make sure they're where they're at So based on what we're doing right now those are the those increases seem reasonable to where they need to be with that 15,000 currently in the budget for that long-term financial management plan that will hopefully bring everything into a much clearer picture where we have a lot better understanding is this really where where these rates need to be now and in now and going in the future one of the other rates that uh cons in mind is a met Council rate and the sewer fund that is a huge expense in um in the sewer fund that fluctuates year to year uh the percentages is based on flows of the whole system and what the flows are specifically to Forest lak so um the good thing is we get that number very early in the budgeting process so I think we usually get that in May of every year and in my experience um that number doesn't change so then that's the number and then we pay that monthly in that Council so there's no unexpected surprises in that going into 2025 thank you any other questions for Kevin comments yeah I remember I us was having conversation last budget cycle about that storm water tech was that funded from the utility funds or was that part of the general Levy so that ended up getting moved to being funded from the sewer fund and the general fund so where's this new superintendent going to be funded from this is getting split right now is budgeted basically a third a third a third in each of the utility funds thir there's no general fund dollars funding this position are we still hiring the tech no we have not hired the tech we're not and it's not proposed that we are hiring the tech so were those budgeted dollars doar were budgeted for that so those dollars are budgeted currently in the general fund and Sewer fund they're in the budget and they're not currently projected to be spent in 20124 so are they part of the 24 Surplus in the general fund yes and they're not in the budget no how many of the positions that we budgeted for last year do we actually hire it wasn't the HR person it wasn't the stormtech I think there was a third one we approved there so back in the 2024 budget we had um Dan UNAM old position the assistant City administrator was in the 2024 budget and not filled we had an HR Manager supervisor whatever the title was in 2024 we had the storm water technician that was in the budget and has not been hired but but the only one of those that we intend not to do is the storm water tech and then we realigned the assistant and the HR position remember and we you know we want to make sure we have a good strong person in that position yeah and just you know for the public part with the change of administrator and where we're at that's part of the reason big reason why we haven't hired those positions so that other questions or comments on utility rate or utility budget so again here we're looking for any direction that you have that's a little bit different than what we just went over at the tax levy but pretty soon once we get um starting pretty soon here we start be looking at our annual fees and starting that process so unless we hear otherwise we will keep those 2025 rates at what they were um approved at in 2024 and what you will see when we get to that point I think those rates have been pretty consistent over the last few years so at least we can start there yeah I I would you know if we can review that it is because it's 6% one year the next thing three years is your 18% increase and so that starts those numbers start to add up so we can visit that I mean if that's where it needs to be that where it has to be but we should be reviewing this which we are and change it accordingly if need be are you saying you're good with 20 what's proposed for 2025 and and review again next year and Kevin touched on that long financial management plan too that will give you more details going out for the next 10 years and whether or not it should be the same or or be adjusted s seem like we have see some heads nodding all right any other information that we need staff to prepare for this I think we're okay are we thank you Kevin Council before we move off of this topic on budget overall any other comments or thoughts we haven't maybe already talked about Christina Kevin anything else you need from us all right we'll bring our discussion item to a close and we'll move on to staff updates and we'll start with let's just start with Jolene and go around no updates this evening Abby um the only update I have is that we did have a good arts in the Park season we did uh send out to all of our vendors a survey this year that's kind of new just to see how we did how um the events are going the musical acts themselves if our vendors have any input on those I also want to thank uh don boogie in our office uh Jordan Leeman our intern this year and Kevin Warner and Parks as well as Dave um that definitely that definitely uh stepped up this year um the event really could not have happened without the team effort that it took to kind of put it together uh after Jamie departed so excellent Dave I just want update the preconstruction meeting for belts Park is uh tomorrow and they plan on starting to do removals by the end of this week they were pushed back so far I don't think the surfacing will go on this year it'll probably be a spring thing I think you remember me talking about we needed to get it lined up for that to happen but the rain has pushed him back so far that he finally got to this project so it all sounds like like it'll all get completed except for the servicing that'll happen in the spring thank you uh Chief Peterson yeah mayor and City Council Members I want to publicly thank officer Megan olad for 17 years of service with the Forest Lake Police Department her last day is going to be this Friday and then this Thursday and Friday is the memorial service and funeral service for uh former police officer David pasnik and former police chief uh Dave Schwarz and just thinking of them and their families week thank you for that chief chief Newman mayor and Council I have two updates the uh first update is on the safer Grant in Minnesota historically it's midt for whatever reason they wait till uh the middle of September uh to award for Minnesota fire department so fingers are still crossed with that um this last week we went through our ISO rating or that had be gun and so every 5 years uh ISO comes into your city and they rate your Department's ability to respond to structure fires that process looks at equipment Staffing training uh they look at things like um checking hydrants water flow which we did with public works this year um currently the city has a rating of a four the the lower the rating the better and uh hopefully we're going to be able to get that down to a three but you really never know until that uh rating is completed usually takes about uh 3 or four months after they come in and do all the testing before you actually get your rating so sometime november-ish December we should know that's all I have for updates unless you have questions for me thank you chief that rating is an impact on um insurance rates that is one of the underwriting criteria that insurance companies look at so there is us having that lower rating certainly has that potential for positive impact which probably means a less of a price increase if you've been following insurance rates lately but it is a positive impact for everybody in the community so job well done thank you correct thanks and that's but not yet final correct that's not F final yet not till November December we'll know very good thank you Amanda uh yeah just a reminder that on Wednesday there is a special meeting um for the council to uh select the finalist for the city administrator position that will be at 700 p.m. in the forest lake uh room across the hall uh and please let me know if you didn't get all of your information but that should have come over via email from Carl Last Friday thank you and Christina uh mayor and Council last week mot sent us the eaw for Highway 97 so if anyone is interested in looking at that there's a big thick book outside the um front windows there they do have uh an online Link as well and they are accepting comments on that project the eaw part of that project until October 11th very good thank you Ryan uh Mary St the council just a couple things the Highway 8 project that's coming down the pipeline we uh plan on doing a short presentation and get you guys kind of up to speed on that project at that next city council meeting on September 23rd uh And in regards to the public projects a lot of that stuff's pretty much wrapped up or very close to being wrapped up uh some of the residential subdivision stuff really not much report we haven't been able to finish the grading or start grading on those projects so even by the September 23rd meeting there will be more probably development work to be able to report back very good and Kevin anything for Council no further updates all right let's start with Council updates we'll just go right down the line here counc member ericon no updat council member H uh when David brought up Bel Park I was reminded excuse me uh I attended a funeral at the Catholic Church uh last week and father bod he should like to have somebody to to come and talk to them about negotiating for the parking area there so I don't know where that's at or if somebody's been talking to them or whatever yeah we've been working through agreement they they're legal looked at it has sent a a proposed agreement back to us for review okay so is it it's in the works then yeah man has been quite busy lately so it's one of those things that we're kind of still still looking through and and looking at options as well otherwise no other updates so I just want to follow up on that um I think it's going to be on hold because my understanding is that parking lot agreement is not necessary unless you were to do some expansions at belts Park is what I've told the history of that is and so at your last meeting I think you approved an extension for that DNR grant for belts park with the idea that hopefully right away in January the new Parks Commission can start tackling that issue so I staff's understanding is that there will not be a need for a parking lot agreement unless there is a project there if that's incorrect um please let us know but that's kind of how it's been explained to me by a couple of people of how that came about that that sounds different than any conversations I've had with yeah yeah with Father bod yeah well but I I mean from the city's position so when we talked about like doing the courts earlier this year as long as we were replacing in kind there wasn't a need to do the parking lot agreement is my understanding it was with the expansion that was the the discussion that we'd had before well it's just that the conversation I think yeah so and part of that um mayor and council is once you get to the design of belts Park you may find that it's more um financially prudent to build a parking lot than to enter into an agreement with the church so is so it's on hold was my understand I don't Dave does have a lot of things on his plate but I we were I was not expecting that we were bringing that forward anytime soon until the design of the park had been decided by the council I so are are you looking for feedback for masan and if that are we okay with that or yeah because I did I just I had to interrupt because I didn't want you to expect something was coming when it's not but if we had if I had the wrong understanding then please correct us and we'll get back to it I mean the Public's been using their parking lot for years in without any sort of an agreement and I think I feel like where we left it was we want to have a park there we're going to make improvements there which is going to attract even more people than what we currently have and it was my understanding that we were pursuing an agreement with the church I I think that's the understanding I think that's his understanding also I I just brought it up because I wanted the conversation to take place uh it was a casual conversation I'll get somebody over there to talk to you simple as that so if I feel like I just heard you say though we were going to do improvements to bring more people there and that was the parking that's why you needed the parking lot agreement so again if we don't do improvements there would you still need a parking lot agreement I think so okay yeah we're we are improving I mean we may not be expanding the footprint of a tennis court but we are making improvements there I mean those courts have been unplayable largely speaking for years so if we have new courts in a basketball court that it's going to bring more people and they're going to park at the church and they're leaving the trash behind they're going to the church to use their bathroom I mean those are things that are existing that have been a part of the con ongoing conversation so it sounds like we might be at a spot where we need to monetize the want and the need and so maybe seeing what that Tak that 250 out of the see you remember this now remember this when you money I I do think that um seeing what that agreement might look like I think might help to council to understand what is the nature of like what is that going to cost and is that are we at a spot where that's what we want to do because even in the winter time that whole site is line with cards because the kids slide down that Hill there I've seen that many times they go over the snowbank there and slide down that hill and you know it's just I didn't mean it to be a an agenda item I just want to somebody pick up the conversation I think it brought up though that we're not on the same page so let's get on the same page and um and if there is an agreement that's in draft maybe Council needs to see that to again kind of monetize what that want and need is otherwise no other updates C member Robert uh just one update and just a question a followup a conversation earlier or open form topic um I helped serve uh corn and so I appreciate Dave and Kevin and everyone's uh help there especially all the volunteers it was a great night the public really appreciates that so thank you to everyone that helped out with that um the question is uh to the pickle ball gentleman in the qu in the condition of the courts I was out there today I I would have to say i' not been to many pickle ball courts but since the money we spent um it is a little disappointing with the condition that it's in and so I don't know if if where we're at with the contractor is that fully paid out are we happy with that is is Staff happy with the condition of those courts and their in their job I left for vacation right as they were doing the repairs so I haven't had a chance to even look at anything yet so um typically Eugene emails me and tells me they did a horrible job and I didn't hear that so I was thinking that they did a good job so I was surprised when Eugene came here tonight and said they did a bad job so I I can take a look at it and give you guys an update yeah and I guess I would you know concerned citizens coming in they're not here they don't want to complain about stuff they want they were grateful for this project and so I just think that if this we spent the money let's make sure and hold that if there is an issue on the contractors let's try to hold them accountable and get it get it taken care of at all possible okay uh just no updates for me just I wanted to um Echo Chief Peterson's appreciation to offic Megan Olstead uh we wish her well in her future endeavors and what a blessing she has been to this community and um the kids at the high school in particular are really going to miss her she leaves some big shoes to fill big boots to fill so we appreciate it officer Olstead that is the end of our planned agenda and I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved a motion is there a second second Motion in a second all those in favor signal by saying I I oppose and adjourned thank you everyone [Music]