on the order of the planning commission for uh February 4th, 2026. Can I have everybody stand and pledge allegiance, please stand nation, indivisible and for all. Okay. First up, we're going to get an approval of the meeting agenda and approval of the meeting minutes for January 7th, 2026 planning commission meeting. >> Mrs. Kim, I'd like to make a motion for approval of the agenda and approval of the meeting minutes for January 7th, 2026. >> This is Mike second. >> Carrie, I >> Mike I. Andy I >> Robin I Okay, with that we're going to move right into the public open forum. If there's somebody who would like to come up and speak tonight uh about anything that's not on the current agenda, uh we'd invite you to do so. Anybody online would like to do so, please speak up as well? Anybody? Okay, we're going to move on then. Public open form is closed. Uh first thing on our uh hearings is uh 6A public hearing Holiday Station Store CUPA at 9444 Lake Drive Northeast. >> Mr. Chair, if I may, uh can we take Oh, yes. >> Yes. I'm sorry. We're going to go out of order here in a second and we're going to go to uh number nine on our agenda and that's the planners report. All right. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the planning commission. I am not Eleanor, so uh you'll have to excuse the uh difference in your packet and how things look and maybe my delivery, but uh it should make a little sense. But I wanted to bring this back to you before we get into any of the public hearings or decisions tonight. Uh during the January 7th uh 2026 planning commission, uh I believe city administrator uh Davis presented information that the public hearing policy was scheduled for revisitation by the city council. At its January 28th, 2026 city council meeting, the council discussed and reviewed policy 2401 and approved 2601 granting the planning commission the authority to not require an additional twoe waiting period uh with a recommendation justifying the action. So, uh my request would be that you take a look at uh policy 2601 specifically uh the second page um which is labeled page 70 of your packet under exceptions number uh excuse me letter C was added uh and approved. The waiting period may also be waved either by upon a motion of the planning commission or upon the recommendation of staff with the concurrence of the planning commission for those items that upon inspection and review do not require an additional two weeks and can be referred directly to the city council. So you are granted the authority for some of these items that are sort of no-brainers to go ahead and forward them through without the twoe waiting period. So, I will try and uh provide um some support and guidance on items as we go. If I feel like there's more questions than answers and or that they're not very black and white, uh but if you guys feel also that there are items that are no-brainers, feel free to in your motion state that you don't need no more t you don't need more time or um it's a simple amendment or something along that lines so we can have that justification when it moves off to council. So, thank you for taking that out of order. >> All right. Thank you, Aaron. Okay. Now, we are going to open the public hearing for the holiday station store, CUPA, at 9444 Lake Drive Northeast. Uh, and would you, Erin, would you read the notices published in the Forest Lake Times, please? >> Yeah, let me find the holiday station stores here. While he's looking that up, if I could have the representatives for holiday come up to the front table here. >> There's a couple online. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> All right. I have it when you're ready. says say says that notice is hereby given that the public hearing will be held by the city of Columbus planning commission on Wednesday, February 4th, 2026 at 6 p.m. or as soon thereafter as parties may be heard. The hearing will be conducted in person and by interactive video technology at the Columbus City Hall location 16319 Kettle River Boulevard, Columbus, Minnesota to consider a request to amend the existing conditional use permit to add a car wash to the facility located at 9444 Lake Drive Northeast. Members of the public are interested in attending in person, monitoring the meeting, or wanting more information should contact city hall or visit the city website. The hearing shall continue until all evidence and testimony has been received. Thank you, Erin. All right. Uh I don't know who's online with me, who's part of this, but your name is? >> I'm Casner. >> You're Casner. All right. If I could have you uh uh give us a little rundown of what is going to be going on. I need your name, your address, and I just ask that you sneak into the speaker. >> Okay. So, I have Richard, Jennifer, and Steve Harrison on the line. Those are those three are mine. Steve is a project manager >> for the project. Richard and Jennifer are with the Civil Group. >> Okay. >> So, and and then I'm at 6000 Clearwater in Hopkins. >> Okay. >> Or Hopkins, Minnetonka. >> Yep. And uh we're proposing to tear down our store and rebuild it um right down the road and get you a much better asset than what's there today. >> I would agree. I mean, right off the bat, I love the idea that you're going to put in a car wash because there just isn't a holiday car wash around. >> Yeah, there's not. No, >> no, I had to drive. >> We know this and that's why we're adding one. >> I had I had to drive all the way down to the Fleet Farm to get my car wash. >> I bet you did. Yeah. >> Okay. and we have reviewed your application and as normal protocol for the record could you well we just did that uh brief about the application and plans um for the record did you receive a copy of the report developed by the city's associate planner Aaron Berg on February 4th 2026 regarding this application and in this report note certain recommendations you also note some conditions numbering 1 through 11 you understand these recommendations and conditions and do you have any questions or comments about them at this time? Any of you? >> I'll leave that question for Steve if he can come off mute and speak. >> Hi, sorry Steve Harrison. Let me um share my video as well. >> Did you hear his question? >> Uh yes, I did. Um yes, we did review. Um I don't have any concerns with them. Um, I'd like to also um get the recommendation of the civil group as well, just to make sure that they didn't see anything that um was of concern in that. So, Richard or Jennifer, could you um also answer the question just so we cover all bases? >> Hi there. I'll do some speaking. Um, this is Jennifer Smith. I'm over here in Michigan. Um, I we did not have any comments. Um, I did get a hold of Aaron. There was comment about the high-rise sign that we answered after this agenda got put together. He just had questions regarding um whether we were increasing the size or making any sort of changes, but they're just planning on refacing it. Okay. >> So, um I think that's the only comment I had on the agenda. >> Okay. Anybody else? >> Okay, we got all three people in there. Um I think this is one of those things that it's it's pretty straightforward. I only have one question and this happened with uh Loves, actually across the street from Loves, they put in a truck wash, told us they were going to put in a water reclamation system in it and then said they weren't after everything was approved. Now, you say you're having a water reclamation system in there. Is there really going to be one or is that just trying to make us happy? >> Oh, yeah. We usually have one in there. Is that in our in our design, Jennifer? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yes, it is correct. Um, it accounts for about 20% reclamation and we've used them on several sites and different projects we've done before >> and they work all right for you and everything. >> Yes, we haven't had any issues. >> Good. Good. I'm glad to hear that. Um, at this point, I'm going to open the floor to my fellow commissioners. If you have any questions for them, please ask away. >> I do not have any questions. I don't have any questions. >> I don't have any questions. >> Uh maybe a couple quickies. Um wondering if you're anticipating any um additional traffic or traffic change with the car wash in there. Uh and the reason I ask is because when I use that store and then go to my house, I kind of go around that little back the back way around. I was just wondering if uh there's any thought of any traffic changes or the necessity of any traffic changes there. Yeah, we we consider them almost the same customer. And I guess Forest Lake doesn't really have many car washes, so I guess maybe we'll pull more for a car wash, but it wouldn't be significant over >> to what's already what we're planning on having there. >> And I can uh let you know that the city engineer has reviewed all of plans and I know one of the plan sets does show directional arrows of traffic flow. um as well as our public works director and there were no uh concerns about traffic or traffic flow based on the plan set that was offered to the city. >> Okay, that's all I had. I have one more question. When are you going to start >> construction? >> Yeah. >> When we get uh when we get our building permit. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Excellent. >> Yeah. >> Excellent. That's the only questions I have. Um I'm looking for a recommendation at this time. >> This is Kim. I would like to make a motion in favor of the holiday stores new building and car wash. >> We are amending the conditional use permit to allow for the addition of a car wash. >> Yes, we are. >> That's the motion for tonight. Yes. >> Yes, we are amending the motion. >> Mrs. Mike, I'll second. Carrie I. >> Kim I. >> Mike I. >> Andy I. Robin I. >> We're moving on to the city council. >> Thank you. When is that? >> When will that be? >> I'm going to push it to the uh end of the month council meeting. So, help me out, Mr. Mayor. Um, >> 28th. >> 28th. February, I believe. >> Is that a Saturday? >> 25th. >> I think your email said the 26th, >> I believe. Is that a Thursday? Is that when they meet? >> Wednesday the 25th. >> 25th. Yep. >> 25th. Okay. >> Thank you guys. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Forward to it. >> Thank you everybody. >> Okay, next up on our list is item 6B, comprehensive plan amendment and reszoning for 9613 145th Avenue Northeast. >> Okay, Aaron, >> one second. If I could have you uh read the publication. Notice is hereby given that the that a public hearing will be held uh by the city of Columbus Planning Commission on Wednesday, February 4th, 2026 at 6 p.m. or as soon thereafter as parties may be heard to consider a request to consider a comprehensive plan amendment and resoning ordinance amendment to change uh the designation uh designated land use of a 34.65 65 acre parcel located at 961345th Avenue Northeast uh from general business to light industrial. The hearing will be conducted in person and by interactive technology at the Columbus City Hall located at 16319 Kettle River Boulevard. Members of the public interested in attending in person, monitoring the meeting, or wanting more information should contact city offices or visit the website. The hearing shall be continued until all evidence and testimony has been received. >> Hey Garren, um I have a question for you now. Um we do we're going to discuss the rural residential commercial kennel ordinance. Correct. >> That'll be the next one. >> That's Oh, that's right. Comprehend comprehensive plan and resoning. >> Um for those people, do we have them come up >> or is this just us? uh for the for the reasonzoning and the comp plan. >> You you can certainly have the applicants come up that and so that they'd be available to ask some questions. They are here. >> Okay. If I could have you please step up, I'd appreciate that. Thank you. >> And again, I just ask that you speak into the microphone so that all the recordings work. Okay, >> it sounds good. Okay. So, this is basically um reszoning a a a commercial type area into a light industrial area. Um and what was the purpose of that again for? Well, basically what we we'll start we've been marketing the property for quite some time and we've followed the the zoning ordinances and whatnot that we currently have been under. We have continued to get some uh buyers that have come in and made offers and started the process on the property. those uses were more light industrial and it still applied to try to come in to the city to try to bend those guidelines and still get a conditional use permit and without success because it's pretty cut and dried and there were some areas that it strayed and didn't fit that box. So, we've went down that path for at least four years or so right now. Um, >> six or six years. Yep. And we received competitive offers. However, we just couldn't get them across the goal line. So then we took a just took a, you know, backed up a little bit and said, "What should this be? We've got, you know, the community, you know, the public, they're coming forward saying this is what we think it should be." you look at uh the current zoning and with general business and I did some research and looked around to um other communities and I I found one if we look over to our our neighbors into Hugo the zoning and the approved uses for for for this parcel the way it currently sits on Hornsby matches up a lot with Frenchman Road the if you drive up and down you'll see lots of these people veterinarian clinics quick trips all you know just all the different dermatology centers and things of that nature that's 34,000 vehicles per day up and down that stretch, fourlane, divided, etc. The population, the housing and and the the business and the infrastructure is just not there along Hornsby to provide that kind of traffic and nor do I think the the city would want it that way. So then we dug in to the comprehensive plan and just started matching out light industrial which is just to the south of this parcel >> and it seems to really fit. It fits with the current infrastructure. It fits with the traffic flow. It fits in proximity to the residential piece of Columbus. So the more we looked at it, the more we thought that light industrial really fits. It seems to fit with the area that it's in in Columbus as well as what the market perceives it to be. So that's where we got together around the holidays and said, "Hey, let's just go talk to the folks at the city and see if we can get this thing reszoned and find the buyer so that we can, you know, get this land and site developed." >> Excellent. Excellent. Um, at this point, uh, we're not doing an open forum on this, are we? Open public. I don't see one. >> Um, >> or do we want to? >> Yeah, you should do a public hearing. Call. >> I could have you folks step back again while I invite anybody up who would like to speak on this matter. Is there anybody who'd like to speak on this matter tonight? Okay, we'll close the op the uh public forum and open the discussion to my fellow members. Do you see have have you looked had a chance to look it over and did you see anything that you didn't like or liked or >> I guess it would be just uh like what type of business would be coming in cuz I don't want like the like that concrete plant. >> Well, that's not light industrial which which is nice. Yeah. No, light light industrial would mean like um small printing plant. >> Okay. the little little businesses like he was saying all that are all along uh you go like you go drive there or whatever all these nice small businesses. >> So that's what we're looking at here. >> Okay. >> Um not necessarily stores >> but they can do more things at these places uh than they can right now >> due to the way it's owned. >> Okay. So the the best description would be light manufacturing with some distribution of products made inside. uh somebody's going to make widgets or um like a metal shop or something >> something. Yeah. They're cutting out stamping out parts for uh BMX bicycles and then they're shipping them off to who knows where. >> Okay. >> Um >> to add, you know, we're seeing our our home office is in Stillwater area and there's a company there, medical device companies. Minnesota's always had a huge presence of medical device companies and they do a lot of prepackaging. All these testing kits that medical facilities use, they're getting really good prepackaging all those things. So like when you're in you go in for some sort of treatment and they'll open up a box, do all the testing, send it all to the labs. It all is, you know, manufactured there. Like that one I'm saying is Dasaurin. It's very big with that where they manufacture things right there in one building and then the other office in another building and distribution in another one. Okay, >> those are the target that's the market that we're really trying to attack. You know, something like that is what we're trying to attract for that second. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> And uh Mr. Chair and members of the commission, if I may, as this is a um comprehensive plan amendment, >> this is just one of many steps in the process. And so, um you all need to make a recommendation on the resoning and the comp plan amendment. The city council needs to concur. Uh we need to then um notify adjacent uh jurisdictions and or affected properties, give them 60 days to make comment. I have heard back from a couple of them already from sending out the public hearing notice and there is no opposition at this point. I think I did include in your packet that the city of Forest Lake did reach out to me and they're not in opposition to a change of this nature. Um, my only concern about the comp plan amendment is that little tiny parcel on the corner that's now on an island. >> It would be left commercial. Now, if we are told uh that that also has to be reszoned, the city would then have to notify those parcel owners and let them know that their uh potential designation is going to change. However, I do know from um conversations with regional groups um that there is some desire to uh widen um all the way from Lino uh up uh for a potential or that what's been discussed as a technology corridor since 2019. Uh if we were to pave all the way up there uh and then make a left-hand turn and then come up Hornsby, that might not be a bad spot for a commercial corner. However, >> yes. >> Um so we'll see what the um uh Met Council says uh once we get the 60-day comments back and then submit the application. So any approval tonight and or approval from uh the city council in a couple of weeks is all contingent. uh the Met Council's blessing. So, >> okay. So, you're looking for an approval or >> looking for you guys to make a recommendation to um a allow the uh resoning >> and b um allow for the comp plan amendment or recommend that the city council approve the comp plan amendment to change this parcel from its current designation to the requested designation of the applicant. >> Got a written down And for next time, I can certainly script some motions uh so you have them in advance. >> That's helpful. >> Thank you. >> When it's done, >> this is Kim. I would like to make a motion for consideration for city approval on the comp plan changes >> and the reasoning. >> And the reasoning. >> This is Mike. Second. >> Carrie. I am I. >> Mike I. Andy. I Robin. Okay. Well, that's pretty easy. And the last thing we are going to discuss tonight is the rural residential commercial kennel ordinance. This has been floating around for years. And basically, um, thank you folks. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, Mr. Chair, members of the planning commission, the purpose of this memorandum is to obtain planning commission feedback on whether the city should consider a future zoning code amendment to allow commercial kennels as a conditional use within a residential zoning district, specifically the rural residential. Commercial kennels are currently prohibited in residential districts under the city's current zoning code. No specific application has been submitted and nor no formal action is requested tonight. This item is intended solely as a policy level discussion to gauge the commission's interest and identify considerations prior to any drafting of potential code amendment processes. Staff has received an inquiry regarding the potential for a commercial kennel operation in a rural residential zone. However, have not received an application. Commercial kennels are generally considered highintensity animal uses due to the potential impacts related to noise, traffic, waste management, and neighborhood incompatibility. Given the potential land use, noise, and incompatibility concerns associated with kennels, staff is seeking preliminary policy direction from the planning commission before taking any formal code amendment work. This approach allows the planning commission to discuss discuss the concept broadly, identify concerns and determine whether future exploration of this issue is warranted. Now, typically uh general municipal land use practices, not unique only to Minnesota, restrict commercial kennels from residential zones. Research indicates that not every Minnesota city has the exact same language. The prevalent approach is to restrict commercial kennels from residential zones by either prohibiting them entirely, restricting them to only commercial, industrial or agricultural zones or allow them under conditional use. Um, under section 7A612 of the Columbus Zoning Code, commercial kennels are classified as high intense animal uh use related to commercial. They are not listed as a permitted or conditional use within any residential district. however, are permitted in in uh in any of the commercial and industrial zoning districts as an interim or a conditional use based on defined zoning requirements. As such, the operation of a commercial kennel in a residential district is currently prohibited. As I said, allowing such use in the future would require the adoption of a zoning text amendment to approve this approved by the city council following a planning commission recommendation. Um, I've outlined the differences between an interim use permit and a conditional use permit. Um, in Minnesota zoning practice, the difference between an interim use permit and a conditional use permit is fundamentally about duration, certainty, risk management, and not about land use intensity. The core distinctions of a conditional use permit are uh a use that is considered acceptable in principle with a zoning district on a permanent basis provided conditions can continue to be met. A conditional use permit authorizes the land use that is listed in the zoning code as conditionally allowed and is considered compatible with the zoning district in principle when specific standards and conditions continue to be met. Approval of the CUP conveys uh a permanent land use entitlement that runs with the land rather than the individual operator and does not expire. Because of this vested nature, ACUP establishes long-term expectations for both property owners and the city and uh revocation requires high evidentary thresholds and clear documentation of non-compliances. CUPs are most appropriate for wellestablished uses with predictable and manageable impacts where the city is comfortable allowing the use on a manage on a ongoing basis. The primary advantage of a CUP is regulatory certainty. It provides a stable available framework while allowing the city to impose reasonable enforcable uh conditions to mitigate these known impacts. Now, an interimm use permit is a use that is not yet proven or not intended to be permanent allowed temporarily so the city can evaluate real world impacts. An interimm use permit authorizes a land use on a temporary basis allowing the city to evaluate before determining whether the use should be continued for a long term. While the use may be listed in the zoning code or allowed through a specific provision is it is not presumed appropriate on a permanent basis and the approval does not create a vested right to the property. An IUP is issued for a definitive period of time and automatically expires unless renewed allowing the city to reassess compliance, neighborhood impact, and overall compatibility at regular intervals. IUPs are most appropriate for uses with uncertain or potentially significant impacts, emerging land uses or situations where neighborhood sensitivity is high. The primary advantage of an IUP is risk management. It provides flexibility and enforcable an enforcement review point and a clear exit strategy if the use proves to be incompatible or conditions cannot be met. Uh some may ask why a home occupation would not apply in this scenario. Uh according to our zoning code section 7A201, the definition of a home occupation is an occupation or a business or an activity intended to generate profit full or part-time and conducted within the dwelling unit or permitted accessory structure or both by a resident of the premises. Home occupations generally intend intend to allow low impact accessory business activity that is clearly subordinate to its residential use and in indistinguishable from residents the residents as from an outward appearance. Although section 7A612 permits home occupations rural residential zoning districts, a commercial kennel fails the home occupation test under Minnesota zoning law because it is not incidental or subordinate to the residential use and produces impacts that are outwardly perceptible beyond the dwelling. Minnesota courts have consistently held that a home occupation must remain clearly secondary to residential living and must not alter the residential character of the property or surrounding neighborhood. Uses that generate reoccurring noise, customer traffic, outdoor operational activity, or nuisance type impacts have been found inconsistent with home occupation standards even when conducting within or on residential property. Commercial kennels inherently involve barking, animal turnover, waste management, outdoor exercise, and regular customer drop off and pickup activity, all of which exceed low impact uh internal and accessory natures contemplated by home occupation provisions. Minnesota appellet court's uh decisions have upheld municipal determinations that activities producing detectable off-site impacts or requiring commercial level regulation are principal commercial uses rather than accessory residential uses and therefore must be regulated through explicit zoning authorization such as a conditional or interim use permit rather than be treated as a home occupation. All of this information is presented for discussion purposes only. There is no motion or recommendation tonight and no vote is requested or anticipated. Uh if the planning commission expresses interest in further considerations of this topic, staff may return with a draft zoning code amendment options, performance standards, and public management strategies for a formal review. I did list a a fairly lengthy list of policy considerations for us to certainly discuss. Um I want to bring those to your attention. Um and the first one is land use compatibility. Uh need to determine whether a commercial kennel can reasonably coexist with a surrounding residential use without altering the neighborhood character or undermining the intent of a residential zoning district. Page 66 if you're looking for those. Uh scale or intensity. Will a commercial kennel uh will limitations such as caps on the number of animals, the number of employees or square footage be necessary to ensure compatibility? Uh another consideration is noise impact. Uh will a commercial kennel uh whether barking and or animal related noise can be effectively mitigated through enforcement standards and/or conditions? Uh location and criteria. uh whether any allowance should be limited to certain residential zoning districts of the city, large lot parcels or properties adjacent to agricultural or non-residential zoning. Um precedent and zoning integrity whether allowing kennels as a conditional use would create pressure to allow additional kennels in other residential areas. Public health and safety considerations related to sanitation and waste disposal, animal containment and emergency response and permitting framework, whether a conditional use permit or an interimm use permit would be most appropriate if the use were allowed in the future and the enforcement capacity. Uh something to consider whether the city has adequate resources to monitor compliance and address complaints over time. Um I have generated some discussion questions I would like you all to consider and possibly provide me feedback so I know what direction to go. And the first question is is there general support from planning commission to explore zoning code amendments to allow commercial kennels as a conditional or in interim use in residential zoning districts. I have experience in this in that quarter mile down the road from me there was a kennel and even though they removed their barkers I could still hear them barking a quarter of a mile down the road from me. So I know myself I don't like the idea of allowing kennels in a residential area. May I >> this is it's not a public forum is not discuss presenting to them is highly inaccurate. I understand rules and regulations what they are but the situation that you're presenting to them is not the situation that we're going to talk about. So you're asking them to form an opinion by not getting all the >> Mr. Chair this is >> excuse me it's a matter of procedure. If you want to take public comment that's completely up to you. Okay. Um, I am simply asking questions that would lead us to a a potential zoning code. >> I would agree with you, Aaron. Absolutely agree. Yeah, this is just simply uh we're discussing to see if there's anything that's going to be done. Um, we're not going to recommend anything today other than to have the city council maybe look at what we talked about. So, I I wouldn't be concerned too much about what we're discussing up here. We're just trying to get a general idea of where we are as a planning commission. We're a relatively new commission. So, this is a discussion we have to have for we'll have more like these on other other issues. >> I'm just trying to understand how you try to make a discussion. You don't have the facts. That's just my only comment. >> Well, Mr. Chair, if it's currently prohibited, if the count if the planning commission feels that it should continue to be prohibited, that's an easy discussion. That ends the discussion. By having a discussion, I can understand where the commission wants to go with this and present proper zoning changes. If there is if there is uh the appetite for making any changes, >> the city's not obligated to make changes. This is a this is a zoning code amendment request. >> Yes. >> Okay. Next question. Should if we allow this what do you guys think about lot sizes for any >> I don't know if we got the necessarily got the entire feel for the first question whether we should move on to number two or not. >> Okay >> maybe we want to general support amongst my colleagues uh to make an amendment or not or let's have a discussion. I think kind of along the lines of of you Robin that I depending I guess maybe on the size of a commercial kennel um there could be a lot of lot of barking if that was within your shot of my house. As much as I love dogs um I've had neighbors that have had barking dogs and it gets really old really quick. >> Any comments? I'm not in favor of it pretty much for the same reason. You know, I live in an area that's smaller and you can bring your dogs across the lake and it's hard to have a barbecue outside or you know, >> any anything. I would be uh in favor depending on circum circumstances such as lot size, number of dogs. Um what else do we have here? And maybe just um try like do like an interimm use permit like try it for 6 months. >> I absolutely agree with the interimm use. How how long is a minimum interimm use permit? >> We can do a year a year. >> I I wouldn't like that. >> I wouldn't make it a permanent thing until we get more things. >> I don't know that I would ever make it a permanent thing. >> Yeah. Self. Um, I I think obviously a lot of it depends on the circumstances and where you are in in the city cuz if you're on Broadway, you're not going to hear any dogs barking >> cuz you're all spread out and Carlos Avery is right there and a lot of road noise to begin with. Um, but if you're in like a newer development like me, you would obviously hear that. So, I think it would have to be very dependent on where you are in the city. I would I would agree a little bit of restriction would be >> would be very necessary if you're going to put this into I I mean I know we live in the countryside and I know everybody's got big lots and everything like that and everybody wants to use their lots the way that they want to use them >> but the fact is we are still neighbors and we're close to each other yeah I got 2 and 1/2 acres my neighbors got two and a half acres but when he tried to prepare a farm over there it was like no that's not really >> I was like 15 20 acre minimum you know big sizes so you can put the kennel way in back. You have trees to help draw out noise. You know, you're not just some >> open field at 2 and a half acres where you're just >> Yeah, that sounds more commercial then than it does residential. >> Yeah. >> Um so that that's kind of where I would be at. Um and obviously cap the cap the animals. I guess I look at it as like >> Oh, there I think there would have to be a number of restrictions. You got >> a cow or two mooing or some chickens crowing same. I think there has to be limitations on how many animals >> Yeah. >> are there. I think there has to be some >> I know I've seen it where they've put like hedges to help >> keep the noise down. >> Um some sort of uh fencing or >> something to keep the noise down I think would also be another thing that we would have to consider. >> Yeah. in this as well. >> I look at this as like a from a hunting standpoint. I'm a hunter. I have a hunting dog. If the kennel can help train my dog hunting, I don't have to go up to Little Falls to to travel 2 hours north. I can someone's here do that. I guess I look at it in that perspective. >> I would agree. I don't know that it warrants any sort of um change, but I would definitely say that restrictions and and limitations would would need to be considered. And there's as we as we all heard the size and and scope of everything. It would be entirely dependent and a shorter term, you know, as a as a trial if something were to come uh to come of it. Anyway, this is only the first maybe step. So, would this be something considered like a variance or just you would think it would have be an IUP? >> Okay. >> I think it would have to be an IUP, would it not, Aaron? >> It would be either an interim use or a conditional use. Uh, and that would have to go through those processes >> if we decide that >> um entertain that in in the residential. Right. >> I think in general at this point I think we've all pretty much agreed that a CUP is out of the question >> for us anyway. At least for me. I don't know about anybody else. I think it's out of the question. >> I would agree without spec as a whole. Generally speaking, I'm not in favor of amending anything. If we had a specific request and we had more information that we could obviously make a more informed decision, I would certainly be open to having that conversation. I'm I'm intentionally trying to steer us away from a particular um parcel or a particular situation. I don't want us to get into a legal battle over whether we created uh um a zoning um path for just one person. >> Okay. And if we then generally create an appropriate use that's applicable citywide >> and it happens to fit the parameters that this one particular parcel is looking for. That's the intent of my conversation tonight is how can we avoid um and make this more generalized conversation uh until until we reach that step. So like basically like setting a limit of or a minimum of like 20 acres that would want to discuss stuff like that. >> Yeah. Well, so the next question then if you're considering uh allowing uh should it be limited to a minimum lot size? >> I would I would say so. Uh >> yeah 100%. >> And I'm not asking you guys to define the lot size. That's research that we would do then uh on the city. >> You need to have a minimum lot size without a doubt. >> Yes. You've got to protect the neighbors. >> And I'm assuming we're all in favor of that particular >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh the next question for discussion are potential noise or nuisance impacts sufficiently controllable through uh conditions in a IUP or uh conditional use permit and or then uh standards in a interim use permit. So from what you all may or may not know from code enforcement, um does do you believe the city has the capacity to control nuisance complaints through its enforcement mechanisms? >> I'm not too familiar with how many people we we have doing that or how many complaints we get a year on the same >> noise complaints through animals. I guess I mean because typically if you have a noise complaint from a person on to it. So, so I can uh let you know from the the noise standards um are controlled by the MPCA and then we utilize or we utilize the sheriff's office to do um evaluations with noise meters from certain prescribed distances over a certain period of time and do those um readings exceed the standard. Okay, >> that's how we would go about enforcing the noise ordinance. Um, as you know, we don't have a deputy on at all times. Um, and so when the complaints come in, and this has been my experience from other jurisdictions, that even if there's a deputy on, uh, and it's just a residential neighborhood with a neighbor's barking dog, most of the time by the time the deputy arrives, the dog's been let back in or they don't observe the noise or these don't become priority calls for for the sheriff's department. >> Absolutely 100%. >> That's been my experience. >> Now, our that isn't limited to just the sheriff's office. We do have a code enforcement officer who works daytime hours um that we could equip and send out to investigate some of these things during the daytime hours. >> I mean, he does do a lot of our followup on conditional use permits and interim use permits to determine whether conditions are being met or not. >> I think with a kennel, most of the complaints would probably be during the day as the dogs would be inside at night in their kennels. And if that building is soundproofed, which is very possible these days with good insulation and everything, you probably wouldn't hear much at night. It'd probably be a typical daytime. Well, I I'm not certain that our compliance officer would have the time. I mean, I don't know. It's a hard question. Very hard question, Aaron. I mean, we're talking probably a minimal impact as far as numbers of kennels. So, how much would he actually have to inspect? One, two kennels, not a big deal. If we start getting more, then then we do have a compliance issue that we cannot control. >> I think that could be regulated though with the amount the lot size. So if we make it big with someone who has 15 20 plus acres that limits a lot of people, especially with a lot of the land they have is unbuildable to even build a kennel on. If I'm not correct, a lot of the a lot of your 20 acre lots are five, six acres buildable and the rest is wetland that you can't build anything on. Yep. We talked about uh conditions and limitations to protect the surrounding residents. Uh we talked about a privacy fence um around the dog areas or even all the property for that matter depending upon you know depending on how big of an operation we're talking you know the whole thing. I don't know. Um, I think though it comes back to is there general support for exploring zoning code change? I think that's where we're down to, aren't we, Aron? >> I got a couple more questions in there, but um, way >> would, and I think most of you have have given your feeling on that. Would a conditional use permit or interim use permit framework be most preferable if we would entertain this? >> It would be an I interum. Yeah, up. >> So, we want to have the ability to shut them down if it's >> Yeah, we got to be able to you give them a CUP and we take a lot of control out. I think >> we do have some commercial zones that um are allowed kennels by IUP and we have some commercial zones that are allowed um kennel commercial kennels through conditional use permit. So, the framework exists under both scenarios in the commercial zone. So it just depends on how uh how we would like to approach um the scenario. Now um as I said conditional use permits uh run with the land and so um future resale would be dependent on a conditional use permit. uh interim use permit. When the uh resident who has been issued the permit discontinues ownership, the interim use permit then goes away and there that wouldn't be allowed on that property anymore. Whereas a conditional use permit would carry over. So that property could then be used as a commercial use by the next owner and the next owner and the next owner. >> All the more reason. >> So those reason to make it an IUP. That's the difference between the two um under sort of this scenario. >> Okay. I have a question. Aaron, I saw you put in there commercial or agricultural zoning. What would be the difference in that? >> Um I I don't know that Columbus has any agricultural zones uh in the code. That's just a general um I took general research from across the state of Minnesota and so some some cities still have agricultural zones. Um, East Bethl, for instance, has agriculturally zoned properties still. Um, and so there's some relaxed zoning code for properties that are zoned agriculture. >> Oh, off topic here. What would be the people that have all the corn fields up? What would that be considered if they have >> they're most likely rural residentially zoned >> being used and taxed uh agriculturally? Okay. Um and then the last uh discussion question I have is what conditions or limitations would be considered essential to protect or to protect surrounding residential properties? Well, like I said earlier, the uh privacy fencing um fencing in general uh of the area either to the dog kennel area itself or the property depending upon how big the property is. Obviously, we're talking 15 acres ain't nobody's going to make you fence 15 acres. I'm not going to do that. Um, but I think those are the the two big >> going going on the fencing thing. We talked about like like blending into your surroundings. You got to plant trees and stuff. Could that be part of it is you have to make it minimally it could be >> minimally visible from the road. >> Yeah, we have a lot of references in the zoning code to um I don't want to say the word improperly. opacity, >> the ability to see it through through um screening, if you will. >> Um and so I think there's components we could pull out of other portions of the zoning code if screening was a definite consideration. >> I I think it's a definite that it has to be done. >> Would like the number of dogs allowed would that also be a limitation to protect the neighbor? Absolutely. Or a condition. Yeah. So our current residential code for residential kennels um is based on acreage. >> Okay. >> So there's also a framework there already existing. Um I believe it's 4 acres and under. You can have four uh 6 acres and under. You can have up to six. I think that those are the standards. 10 acres or more. I think there's there's a number defined. Um, now if uh that could be a little bit flexible in an interim use permit, in a conditional use permit, you may want to actually just draw the line and create a number. >> Makes it easier to enforce. Um, again, not as easy to enforce cuz uh somebody may pick up a dog in the morning and by the time code enforcement gets there, now they're down to 19 and they were at 21 before. And so there's inherently all kinds of gray areas involved in in um allowing commercial operations in a residential zone. Not even just kennel base, just commercial um functions in general in a residential zone. Um I some I've seen are hours of operation, uh traffic control, parking lots. Those are all also considerations that could be put into permitting. >> Yeah. >> Um I've seen cabinet shops in residential neighborhoods that they restrict hours of um routering and sawing and number of customers that can come and go and the time a day that they can start. I mean as creative as you want to be um or as restrictive as you want to be those conditions could be named. And so that's why I was asking, are there specific things that are just if this isn't in there, this is a no starter kind of thing. >> Well, I I think the fencing is is a no fencing that is a no starter. >> Uh bringing that up. We're not looking at like a muddy muddy paws doggy daycare here. We're looking like a like a kennel kennel type. >> No, cuz that's a business. That's not a home business or a >> Yeah. >> residential business. >> Yeah. Okay. So, we're not talking Money Pause or Green Mountain or whatever that great big place is. We're not talking anything like that. Have you ever seen Nanduel Canal on? >> Yeah, I drive by it all the time. >> Okay. That would be I would assume something similar duel. So, so every application is going to be different, right? So, >> I'm saying the operator >> similar to that. >> It's all hypothetical. Correct. >> It is all very hypothetical under this discussion. Okay. You want to keep it very general. >> I'm just trying to get a general. I mean, that's that's the only one I've seen. >> Yeah, that's the only one I've seen in a residential area. So, >> the other thing I would um part of an IEP would be maybe the consideration from the neighbors for the um for the use as well, if that's a possibility. >> So, there would be a public hearing. They would the neighbors would all be sent a notice that there is a public hearing. They'd have an opportunity to speak um to the application. Uh now whether the decision then in the recommendation from the planning commission adds conditions um because of neighborhood concerns those are that's the opportunity to address how those are handled. Um I know we sent out a survey for that animal thing we did what 2 months ago 3 months ago. >> I mean did people respond to that? Do you have responses >> um with the >> similar thing to that as well >> with with the departure of um your assistant planner uh and the absence of the city administrator I've been doing multiple tasks and so looking at survey results are not high priority at this point but they are still coming in >> people have responded >> there there are responses >> this is something we could you could survey out to the city again type of thing >> we we certainly could do that >> their general response to But that would I think that would be a really >> prudent thing to do. See what the residents think about >> a general general simple question. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um any other considerations? >> Anything at this point? I mean >> trying to keep it in generalities and >> I think we've done a pretty good job of >> wrangling things together. Okay. Um, all right. I will I will take all this into consideration. Um, we can do a survey. Um, and certainly uh I think that that that has some value, although with over 4,000 residents, you get 86 responses. I don't know how scientifically uh that those results come. Um, but we can certainly use that feedback then in in addition to what you guys have. Yeah. >> Uh, and and bring that back and see if we want to move forward with a amendment to the zoning code to to look at this. >> So, I appreciate that feedback. >> Okay. I mean, maybe if you put in the survey like a minimum lot size or something they could write in or >> Yeah, I can do a survey similar with similar questions that so that we can hone in on what may or may not be acceptable. But um and I don't know if all of us have had the opportunity to have this conversation. Um I was the um planning commission chair for 6 years uh in another city. Um and I serve on the city council. So I look at planning commissioners as a community litmus test. Um and your opinion as um commission members and representatives of the community has some value. And I think as a council member and as the council members in the back of the room um take your recommendation also as a representative um feeling of the community. So Mr. Chair, I see someone in the audience has their hand up. Again, your floor, you can entertain it if you want or no? >> Well, it's not really an open discussion, but you know what? I'll I'll take a question. Well, I would ask your permission to talk. Some of this was gener. >> Well, I >> it's important. Believe me. >> I'm going to I'm going to say no. Um because it's it's not it's not open forum. >> Should be a democracy and this is not a democracy. >> This is a this is a commission meeting. >> You can shut me down. You're going to spend money on all this stuff. >> I'm spending any money. This is Nanduel Kennels. This is a guy who's been in the community for 50 years. >> I agree. >> And he's had a permit forever. >> Now all of a sudden the city's telling well you you you can't sell your property and this can't be can't. It's wrong. You can reapply. New owners can reapply for a kennel license. >> That's the way That's the way I work. >> I I would really like to tell our story and I guess we're going to have to tell it. >> Mhm. >> I'm afraid so. >> Came from 80 acres, been there for 50 years, long before the houses were. >> We're done. Okay. Um, planners report. I have got nothing. I shouldn't say plan planning commissioners report. Um, is our next item on the agenda? I do not have anything at this time. >> Uh, Cory, you have anything that you would like to bring up at this time? >> Uh, no. >> I have nothing. >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Our liaison. Is there anything you would like us to say or do for you? Um this is Jenny. So can I can I just note um for the the residents that are here, I know you are walking out um but the Nandu Kennels family. Um I just wanted to note that the clarification for tonight was to have more of a general conversation and not have it specific to one business. And that's where I think the confusion is maybe coming in so we can maybe have that discussion outside of the city. But thank you for having that discussion. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Hi, this is Kim. I'd like to make a motion. >> Ajourn. >> Adjourn the meeting. >> This is Mike. I second. >> I You got a vote. Kim >> Kim I. >> Mike I. >> And Andy I. >> Robin I. This meeting is adjourned. It is 2 minutes to 7.